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Speaker 1: From markhard where Innovation, Money and Power co line in

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Speaker 1: Silicon Valley, NBN. This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde

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Speaker 1: and Ed.

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Speaker 2: Loved Love.

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Speaker 3: Live from New York and San Francisco. This is Bloomberg

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Speaker 3: Technology coming up. Chips in focus as equipment maker of

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Speaker 3: prime materials. It does the points on its forecast, while

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Speaker 3: Texas Instruments scores cash from the Chips act Plus.

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Speaker 2: Epic Games launches a new mobile storefront. After years of

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Speaker 2: legal wrangling with Apple and Google and.

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Speaker 3: Seagrammare Edgar Brundman Junior as close to making a rival

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Speaker 3: offer for Paramount is a bidding war brewing. First. I

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Speaker 3: was checking on these markets because it is a good week.

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Speaker 4: Ed.

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Speaker 3: If you are along these markets, then that's that one

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Speaker 3: hundred having its best week in the year since November.

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Speaker 3: We're almost five percent. That is a call one point

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Speaker 3: three trillion dollars being added to the overall benchmark. And

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Speaker 3: it is a significant well sigh of relief post volatility

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Speaker 3: of the last couple of weeks. Once again, we've got

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Speaker 3: some consumer data just showing sentiment is on the up

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Speaker 3: to date. It counts counteracts some of that weakness, and

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Speaker 3: the housing data on the day. No, we're just done

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Speaker 3: a little bit on the day, but it is a

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Speaker 3: strong week. What are you looking at on the microad I'm.

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Speaker 2: Going to go straight to Applied Materials and a company

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Speaker 2: that makes the machines that make the chips. It's down

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Speaker 2: three percent, be in the courter gone, but there were

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Speaker 2: really high expectations in its forecast for the current period.

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Speaker 2: Where the market wants to see that all this investment

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Speaker 2: around AI in particular is translating into more equipment or

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Speaker 2: chip manufacturing equipment investment. We'll get to that in just

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Speaker 2: a moment. The other top story in the semiconductor space,

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Speaker 2: Texas Instruments set to receive one point six billion dollars

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Speaker 2: in Chip ACT grants and three billion dollars in loans

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Speaker 2: the Buying Administration announced today marks the latest major award

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Speaker 2: from the program that's designed to boost American semiconductor manufacturing.

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Speaker 2: We're joined by Bloomozi and King here on set in

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Speaker 2: San Francisco. A lot of the money's been allocated Texas

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Speaker 2: Instruments makes all kinds of more basic chips. Just the

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Speaker 2: terms that they've agreed with the administration here.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, the way to look at this is

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Speaker 5: nothing is set. A lot of money has been promised,

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Speaker 5: But from a taxpayer's perspective, it's like, Okay, you have

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Speaker 5: to do this, you have to go into production, actually

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Speaker 5: build this, and then we'll give you the money. So

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Speaker 5: that's the way to look at it from a general perspective.

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Speaker 5: The flip side of it, Wall Street is like, this

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Speaker 5: is how many dollars, how many cents on the EPs

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Speaker 5: that they'll be gaining, how much less CAPEX will be spending.

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Speaker 3: Still, they are spending a lot, and it is all

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Speaker 3: about the focus on chips at the moment and the

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Speaker 3: focus on AI. Just take us back to applying materials

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Speaker 3: moment in because look, the numbers were good, but the

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Speaker 3: forecast perhaps just not living up to the AI euphoria.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean there are two things going on here.

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Speaker 5: Anything that's to do with high end logic, which is

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Speaker 5: for data centers and by extension, AI is doing really well.

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Speaker 5: There's a lot of demand for that. On the flip side,

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Speaker 5: some of the types of chips that say, are for

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Speaker 5: automakers or for industrial equipment, there's not a lot of

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Speaker 5: strong demand growth there at the moment, So perhaps machinery

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Speaker 5: orders for that particular sector are a little bit weaker.

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Speaker 5: There's kind of a balance of factors going on there.

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Speaker 2: That automotive parts kind of consistent with NXP that we've

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Speaker 2: heard it on an ongoing basis. Just real quick, what's

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Speaker 2: the difference between applied materials and ASML. You know, if

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Speaker 2: you think about what those machines are actually used for.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean think about applied Materials as much more generalists.

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Speaker 5: They make a whole range of different pieces of equipment.

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Speaker 5: ASML is very specific. It's making lithography. They're essentially the

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Speaker 5: lasers that are burning the holes to make the pattern

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Speaker 5: on the chips. Applyed Materials is putting materials on those

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Speaker 5: silicon wafers.

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Speaker 2: Bloombergsy and King, thank you very much. Let's take a

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Speaker 2: closer look at chips globally. Japan is applying foreign trade

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Speaker 2: regulations to chip making equipment as part of its effort

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Speaker 2: to secure stable supply chains, The Ministry of Finance said

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Speaker 2: earlier today, foreign investors are now required to give prior

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Speaker 2: notice when conducting direct investment in equipment tieds chip making.

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Speaker 2: This in an effort to address the risk of key

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Speaker 2: technology leaks and interesting global story carrac and so.

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Speaker 3: Much going on with ships. In fact, overall they are

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Speaker 3: weighing on the overall benchmarks today because of that apply

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Speaker 3: materials number. Just get broad a look at the tech

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Speaker 3: market right now. Janet Mumors with us RBC Brewint, head

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Speaker 3: of market Analysis, and Janet, we've had an extraordinary few weeks.

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Speaker 3: To put it bluntly, what are you making of AI

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Speaker 3: euphoria reality and what it means for the tech benchmarks

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Speaker 3: right now?

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Speaker 6: Hi, good one night, Caroline, Thanks for having I think

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Speaker 6: one thing is that the evaluations are some of these

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Speaker 6: megacap starks and AI exposed starks have come down. I

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Speaker 6: think that is good news for in sirs who are

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Speaker 6: not invested yet. They can actually get in with a

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Speaker 6: better valuation into companies that still have great long term prospects.

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Speaker 6: And I also think that the rebounds, the very quick

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Speaker 6: rebound that we've seen suggests that, you know, if the

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Speaker 6: data is okay, continues to suggest that the US economy

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Speaker 6: is still growing.

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Speaker 7: You know, there's still a lot of demand for these

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Speaker 7: high quality sauce.

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Speaker 6: And I will say our position would be to keep

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Speaker 6: being focused on high quality growth companies, which a lot

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Speaker 6: of these AIS old starts are. And I think some

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Speaker 6: of the observations from companies' guidance, from the big tech

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Speaker 6: companies for example, is that they prefer to actually spend

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Speaker 6: more on AI instead of being left behind. So I

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Speaker 6: think that this is still very much a very important trade.

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Speaker 3: Why then, was everyone suddenly so nervous around it, Janet?

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Speaker 3: Why do you think that, Yeah, we're still twelve percent

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Speaker 3: of of our highs on the socks and next, But

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Speaker 3: why haven't we managed to rebound to the extent that

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Speaker 3: has your level of conviction?

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Speaker 7: Yes? I think so.

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Speaker 6: Generally speaking, a lot of focus is still placed on

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Speaker 6: the economic data.

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Speaker 7: We got some relief I think in.

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Speaker 6: The past week or so with solid economic data and

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Speaker 6: slower inflation, but I think there are still uncertainty surrounding that.

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Speaker 6: I think particularly for cheap companies. I think the politics

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Speaker 6: of that still played a pretty important part.

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Speaker 7: I remember when esmlt.

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Speaker 6: UH and then there is this suggestion that Donald Trump

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Speaker 6: is going to uh, you know, make a stricter for

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Speaker 6: US companies to export high tech equipment and things like that,

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Speaker 6: and also of course the Biden administration tightening the stands.

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Speaker 7: I think these are still ongoing concerns.

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Speaker 6: So I think that is the reason why the cheap

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Speaker 6: makers are not bouncing bad as much as the other

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Speaker 6: wider stocks.

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Speaker 2: Janet Hired zed in San Francisco. I've been reading your

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Speaker 2: research and you've been thinking about reads real estate investment trusts.

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Speaker 2: So have I, and I've been writing about how you

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Speaker 2: can look at their pipeline in the context of data

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Speaker 2: center investments. I didn't realize it was such a focus

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Speaker 2: of opportunity for some of the reads out there. Is

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Speaker 2: that an area that you look for for data sets

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Speaker 2: to kind of work out how long this investment cycle

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Speaker 2: has to run.

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Speaker 6: Yes, I think in terms of reads, I think data

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Speaker 6: center is one of the more resilient areas actually throughout

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Speaker 6: the previous sell off, and I think that that is

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Speaker 6: still a very valid investment point. But what we're looking

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Speaker 6: at in terms of reads is basically broadening out of

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Speaker 6: the other reeds area because simply the valuation has gone

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Speaker 6: much more attractive. And I think particularly right now, we're

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Speaker 6: at the stage where the fan is going to cut

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Speaker 6: interest rates, and you know, expectation is building that they

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Speaker 6: will be you know, further cuts well into twenty twenty

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Speaker 6: five and beyond, so I think, you know, being a

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Speaker 6: very interest rate sensitive sector is likely to benefit from

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Speaker 6: this monetary policy development, and I think the valuation is

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Speaker 6: just adding to that attractive Jesus.

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Speaker 2: Earlier in the show, Caroline was looking at the NASA

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Speaker 2: one hundred on the weekly basis. We've had a lot

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Speaker 2: of conflicting economic data. What has the data all told

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Speaker 2: by Friday Afternoon told you about the state of the

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Speaker 2: global economy.

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Speaker 7: I think everything is still fine.

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Speaker 6: I think the labor market is obviously is lowing down,

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Speaker 6: but it is actually as expected, and in fact, it

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Speaker 6: is a trend that the Fatter Reserve would like to see.

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Speaker 6: If you look at the job opening unemployed person is

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Speaker 6: going down, but it is basically what I would describe

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Speaker 6: at a normalization back to where it's pre COVID.

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Speaker 7: So I think this is all positive development.

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Speaker 6: I think we're saying a slowdown in consumer because the

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Speaker 6: savings are being depleted, but I think the key thing

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Speaker 6: is that real wage book is very much positive. I

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Speaker 6: think that that is a very fundamental supportive factor out there.

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Speaker 6: So overall speaking, the economy is still fine, slowing but

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Speaker 6: as expected, and we're not seeing the economy falling off

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Speaker 6: a cliff, and soft lending is still very much in

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Speaker 6: play here.

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Speaker 3: Janet what is then the most important piece of data

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Speaker 3: in the next few weeks. Is it fed Macro? Is

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Speaker 3: it August twenty eighth in video results.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, Nabidia is It's definitely a very important corporate earnings

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Speaker 6: I think yeah, that would be a very important point

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Speaker 6: for us to watch. Basically we know the volatility around

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Speaker 6: that event and the ability to actually spill over to

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Speaker 6: the rest of the megacap industry. And also investors will

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Speaker 6: be seeking validation on whether that AI orders is still

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Speaker 6: very strong. And of course I think any data that

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Speaker 6: relates to the labor market will be a big focus.

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Speaker 6: I think inflation side of things, we got more confirmation

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Speaker 6: that is okay and unlikely to see a volatility around inflation,

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Speaker 6: So I think labor market data for sure.

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Speaker 2: Such such a good question by Caroline though August twenty

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Speaker 2: eight from Video and Macro level event. Maybe Janet Mouie,

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Speaker 2: RBC Brewing, head of Market Analysis. Great to have you

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Speaker 2: back on the show. Thank you very much. Now, coming up,

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Speaker 2: we're going to be joined by Josh Chapman, who is

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Speaker 2: a managing partner at Convoy, a firm focused on the

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Speaker 2: video games industry, and we're going to discuss epic Games's

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Speaker 2: new mobile storefront, which is out today. By the way,

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Speaker 2: heading to break, we're looking at shares of Rivian. I

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Speaker 2: broke this story overnight with Kyle Porter that they've had

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Speaker 2: to pause the line that makes the delivery vans for

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Speaker 2: Amazon due to a part shortage. The stock declines are

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Speaker 2: really accelerated in the session, almost three percent. It won't

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Speaker 2: affect long term their production targets. They'll make that up.

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Speaker 2: They're not changing guidance, and all the workers will We've paid,

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Speaker 2: et cetera. But it's interesting that this continues to be

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Speaker 2: an issue in the supply chain for Rivian, such a

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Speaker 2: closely watched ev name. Keep tuned, Stay tuned. This is

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Speaker 2: Blombow Technology.

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Speaker 3: Epic debut for Epic Games, A Fortnite maker is launching

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Speaker 3: a new mobile storefront after four years of legal wrangling

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Speaker 3: with Apple and Google over their app store practices, now

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Speaker 3: the Epic CEO saying it may have lost up to

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Speaker 3: one billion dollars in revenue after Fortnite was removed from

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Speaker 3: Apple's App store Whennipek tried to circumvent that fee with

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Speaker 3: its own storefront back in twenty twenty, joining us now

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Speaker 3: Josh Chapman managing partner of Convoy and look, it's returning

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Speaker 3: to iPhones in Europe, to Android devices worldwide? Can people

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Speaker 3: get it? Access it? What's the pickup?

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Speaker 2: Right now?

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Speaker 8: You can only access the Epic Games Store in the

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Speaker 8: EU if you're on the iOS, and globally on Android.

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Speaker 8: As you mentioned, it is an absolute pain to download

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Speaker 8: on both stores. So Apple and Google are fighting this

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Speaker 8: tooth and nail that I just watched some videos that

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Speaker 8: came out this morning. We're going to be trying it

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Speaker 8: all day today. Is this is requiring anywhere from ten

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Speaker 8: to twenty steps. There's lots of flags and alerts on

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Speaker 8: both phone devices saying hey are you sure? Are you

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Speaker 8: sure you want to download this? So these stores are

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Speaker 8: going to fight this tooth and nail.

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Speaker 2: An Apple spokesperson clarified to Bloomberg that it is a

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Speaker 2: five step process in Europe at least, not fifteen. I'm

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Speaker 2: glad to have you on the show.

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Speaker 6: Right.

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Speaker 2: You're a firm that invests in video games startups that

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Speaker 2: want to disrupt the industry. That's what Sam Sweeny's trying

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Speaker 2: to do. The argument that if you have more stores,

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Speaker 2: you have a more competitive market. One hundred and eighty

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Speaker 2: billion dollar video games market, half of which is mobile.

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Speaker 2: Is he right about that argument?

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Speaker 8: He is right that there is It is better for

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Speaker 8: the games industry if there are more stores, more options,

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Speaker 8: and more competitive pricing. That said, I think what he's

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Speaker 8: fighting for is fantastic and will be positive in this

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Speaker 8: development today is positive for the games industry. That said,

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Speaker 8: Apple is well within their right having the platform they've built,

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Speaker 8: to defend it as much as they can, and so

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Speaker 8: the courts of the US have decided that yes, they're

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Speaker 8: not a monopoly. They but they have to allow for

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Speaker 8: third party payments to be processed. Essentially, the way I

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Speaker 8: read that and the way we read that as a

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Speaker 8: firm here at Convoys that that's kind of a meet

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Speaker 8: in the middle. Right, let's let them do off platform payments.

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Speaker 8: But you're not a monopoly, and you got to let

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Speaker 8: Epic Games launch a store on your app store.

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Speaker 3: I mean, the reason that this is happening for iOS

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Speaker 3: in Europe and not here is because the Digital Markets

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Speaker 3: Act and the fact that Europe's decided that Apple is

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Speaker 3: acting as a gatekeeper in some way Google too with

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Speaker 3: these app stores, and they've got to change. But often

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Speaker 3: what happens in Europe ends up happening here in the US.

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Speaker 3: So when if you're saying they're pushing and fighting tooth

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Speaker 3: and nail, will we ever see it occurring here in

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Speaker 3: the US unless there's our own antitrust issues that are

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Speaker 3: set to bear here.

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Speaker 8: So it took about four years to get to this

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Speaker 8: point just in the EU. So I think that we're

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Speaker 8: looking at another just a prediction three to five years

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Speaker 8: before we see this really happen in the United States

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Speaker 8: unless a huge ruling comes down from the Supreme Court

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Speaker 8: in the United States, if they decide to take this

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Speaker 8: court and take the appeal, which they rejected I believe

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Speaker 8: earlier this year last year. And so I think we're

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Speaker 8: looking at a very long drawn out battle. And in

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Speaker 8: the meantime, Apple is making billions and billions a week

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Speaker 8: off of the app store. In about sixty to seventy

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Speaker 8: percent of all revenue on Google's App Store and on

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Speaker 8: Apple's App Store comes from the video gaming space alone.

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Speaker 8: And so the reason why they were fighting, yeah, well.

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Speaker 2: Let me just jump in and Carra, I'm sorry us

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Speaker 2: we're talking about that Apple side of the story. Let's

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Speaker 2: be under no illusions. Epic want to make money from

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Speaker 2: this arrangement, right, they have the target of one hundred

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Speaker 2: million downloads by a certain period of time. Ambitious. Will

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Speaker 2: they be successful is the question.

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Speaker 8: I think Epic Games is going to make a lot

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Speaker 8: of money off of this move today. I think they'll

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Speaker 8: make it primarily through Android globally, and then I think

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Speaker 8: they'll secondarily make it on iOS. I think it'll be

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Speaker 8: in that order of magnitude. But Epic Games as a

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Speaker 8: private company that owns Fortnite and Rocket League and Fall guys.

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Speaker 8: They have now recently launched uefn, which is basically their

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Speaker 8: Roadblocks competitor. They watched Roadblocks have success, so they're launching

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Speaker 8: their own sort of user generated content platform. This is

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Speaker 8: a continued effort for Epic Games to increase their margin.

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Speaker 8: Profile Mobile is a perfect way to do that, and

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Speaker 8: whether that's an acquisition or an IPO in the future,

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Speaker 8: Epic Games is playing their hand very well and this

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Speaker 8: will work out in their favor for sure.

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Speaker 3: I think the data showed that some thirty five million

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Speaker 3: people played Fortnite for more than six hundred million hours

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Speaker 3: in July on Xbox in PlayStation. Just give us the

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Speaker 3: context of how popular Fortnite is compared to the rest

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Speaker 3: of the gaming landscape.

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Speaker 8: Before Fortnite was kicked off the app Store, we as

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Speaker 8: a firm did an estimate that Fortnite was responsible alone

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Speaker 8: for almost one percent of all revenue on the Apple

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Speaker 8: App Store before it was kicked off. That was sort

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Speaker 8: of an estimate that we kind of did internally. The

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Speaker 8: significance that Fortnite is is a title on console, which

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Speaker 8: you just mentioned is absolutely massive, and on mobile, which

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Speaker 8: is more accessible globally around the emerging market countries especially,

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Speaker 8: which is why Android's important. Fortnite is, you know, one

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Speaker 8: of the top five forever titles we call them forever

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Speaker 8: titles in the game and industry in the world right

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Speaker 8: alongside that as things like Call of Duty and Grand

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Speaker 8: Theft Auto and many others.

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Speaker 2: Josh Chapman, managing partner at Convoy, a particularly great voice

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Speaker 2: to have on a daylight today, Thank you very much.

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Speaker 2: There's another big story in the world of entertainment. We're

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Speaker 2: looking at Paramount seagramat Edgar Brontham Junior is close to

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Speaker 2: making an offer four Paramount Global, setting off a potential

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Speaker 2: bidding war for the film and TV company that owns

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Speaker 2: CBS in MTV. That's because the Bloomberg's Hannah Miller and

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Speaker 2: Hannah I will say the same thing to you I

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Speaker 2: said several weeks ago, I'm confused and I have deja vu.

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Speaker 2: So that there's a new bidder and then another bidding war.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, yes, good morning.

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Speaker 9: So yeah, we know Bronklin has been interested in Paramount

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Speaker 9: for a while and things have shifted since then. You know,

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Speaker 9: obviously there's this Skydance deal that has been agreed to,

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Speaker 9: and that there's this forty five day go shop period.

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Speaker 9: So it looks like Bronfman is going to put in

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Speaker 9: a bid, But unlike his earlier interests, he's no longer

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Speaker 9: working with Bain Capital on this and has been discussions

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Speaker 9: with a couple of different entities, including Roku Fortress and

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Speaker 9: the film producer Stephen Paul.

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Speaker 3: So I'm sat here as a B class shareholder, not voting,

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Speaker 3: trying to work out what ultimately is going to be

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Speaker 3: better for me. How does he push away from what

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Speaker 3: David Ellison is going to offer in terms of technology,

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Speaker 3: in terms of studios, How is he going to make

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Speaker 3: a different kind of appeal.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, so you know, Brockman is coming in with years

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Speaker 9: of experience in the Badia industry. He's arguing that this

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Speaker 9: is a better deal for shareholders. You know, he is

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Speaker 9: saying that he can take this company to the next level.

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Speaker 9: And we were putting this potential bin together. But it'll

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Speaker 9: be interesting to see what happens. Ultimately, it's up to

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Speaker 9: Sherry Redstone, her holding company, National Amusements, think is the

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Speaker 9: biggest shareholder in Paramount, and what she says, what she

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Speaker 9: says goes. If she prefers guidance, that's what's going to be.

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Speaker 3: Anna Milla telling it straight. We thank you so much.

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Speaker 3: Let's talk politics and creators because as the election campaign

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Speaker 3: picks up, the creator economy has been on the administration's mind.

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Speaker 3: Two hundred content creators will be credentialed to cover the

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty four DNC in Chicago next week. This follows

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Speaker 3: actually the White House itself hosting the Creator Economy Conference,

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Speaker 3: where it convene a group of digital creators and professionals

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Speaker 3: to discuss the industry's most pressing issues. Let's talk about

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Speaker 3: it with LTK co founder president Ama Ven's Box who

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Speaker 3: you weren't there yourself, but a lot of the influencers

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Speaker 3: that you represent that you help monetize were there. Why

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Speaker 3: is it important? Why why are we seeing such political

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Speaker 3: interest in the influencer economy right now?

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Speaker 4: Well, our LTK team was on the ground, they were there,

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Speaker 4: And you know, when I think about creators and politics,

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Speaker 4: I don't know of any better marketing machine than the

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Speaker 4: RNC and the DNC. And what we're seeing is that

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Speaker 4: even government is realizing that in order to reach people,

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Speaker 4: you need to be where they are. They're spending six

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Speaker 4: and a half hours a day on their phones, they're

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Speaker 4: in these aggregated content channels. The content that they're viewing

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Speaker 4: is created by creators themselves. The new media has arrived,

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Speaker 4: it's here, and it was hugely validating for the Creator

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Speaker 4: Economy Conference to be held at the White House. This

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Speaker 4: is an industry that we started thirteen years ago. The

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Speaker 4: word influencer was only added to the dictionary five years ago,

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Speaker 4: so we've come a long way. This was a really

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Speaker 4: big moment for our entire industry.

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Speaker 3: And what can I get political with you for a moment.

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Speaker 3: I don't want anyone to take sides, but just from

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Speaker 3: a perspective of a creator, an influencer who's doing it

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Speaker 3: better at the moment, who's managing to reach the US

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Speaker 3: voter base via influencers most efficiently. Is it DNC Democrats?

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Speaker 3: Is that are and see Republicans?

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Speaker 4: You know, both are using these tactics, and they both

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Speaker 4: used them for the last several elections, and we've seen

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Speaker 4: it across all of the different platforms. That said, I think,

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Speaker 4: really this is important for the entire industry. Whether you

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Speaker 4: are someone who as a creator that is following politics,

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Speaker 4: who is reporting on politics, this is it. It's a

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Speaker 4: validating moment. And for some creators they don't want to

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Speaker 4: touch the elections at all, But I think what this

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Speaker 4: points to in this moment is that they are looking

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Speaker 4: to see that this industry is important and that they

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Speaker 4: need to be thinking about the things they're thinking about.

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Speaker 4: And there are definitely a handful of things the air

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Speaker 4: Top of Mind that we showed up in Washington to

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Speaker 4: talk about what.

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Speaker 2: Are the protections here for voters that creators, as we

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Speaker 2: are calling them, get it right, that it's accurate, that

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Speaker 2: it's not false or fake information.

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Speaker 4: Well so for our creators. Joe Biden stood up and

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Speaker 4: he said, you know you are the new media. You're

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Speaker 4: the new way that people are being reached. We know

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Speaker 4: that people are not just listening and thinking about sentiment

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Speaker 4: that they're actually acting on the things that their influencers

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Speaker 4: that they follow are telling them. We're seeing that, you know,

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Speaker 4: consumers are buying five billion dollars with the products from

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Speaker 4: these creators every year, so they're voting with their wallet

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Speaker 4: and not just with their mind.

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Speaker 2: So there's a huge responsibility.

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Speaker 4: That comes from being a creator and the acknowledgement that

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Speaker 4: this is the new media is one of the most

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Speaker 4: important things as a creator. There are really key, three

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Speaker 4: key things that are our top of mind when it

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Speaker 4: comes to politics. I'd love to share that you guys

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Speaker 4: are interested.

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Speaker 2: Just fifteen seconds, just got wonderful.

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Speaker 4: Well, we're thinking about the content that's taken and monetized

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Speaker 4: directly and indirectly and without a license, without permission or

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Speaker 4: benefit to that creator. We're thinking about the implications of

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Speaker 4: creator content being taken to train AI again without the license,

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Speaker 4: permission or benefit to the creator. And then I think, finally,

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Speaker 4: it's really important that this industry was built on innovation.

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Speaker 4: How are we protecting the innovators who are creating it?

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Speaker 4: And that's really in the court system through legislation. Thank

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Speaker 4: you so much.

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Speaker 2: Okay, lta HO founder and President Ambven's box. Sorry we

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Speaker 2: ran out of time, but thank you for coming on

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Speaker 2: the show.

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Speaker 3: Welcome back to Bluemotechnology and Caroline.

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Speaker 2: Hide in New York and I'm Ed Lovelow in San Francisco.

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Speaker 2: I want to go back to the chart you showed

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Speaker 2: at the top of the show, and that's that one hundred.

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Speaker 2: But on a five day basis, we're actually on track

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Speaker 2: for a second consecutive week of weekly gains. But five

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00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:38,320
Speaker 2: percent over five days is actually the biggest weekly gain

440
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,720
Speaker 2: on that index since November of twenty twenty three. And

441
00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:44,479
Speaker 2: it's amazing how the narrative changes. It was just two

442
00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:47,040
Speaker 2: weeks ago that we'd had four straight weeks of declines

443
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:49,680
Speaker 2: and we were perilously close to a fifth straight week

444
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:53,520
Speaker 2: of declines, going back the worst run since twenty twenty two.

445
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:57,439
Speaker 2: Economic data is really whipsawing us about and as you

446
00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:00,479
Speaker 2: point out, August twenty eighth and Nvidia earned is this

447
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:02,560
Speaker 2: macro level event. There's a really big story out there.

448
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:06,480
Speaker 2: In a specific mover, Autodesk continue to use a controversial

449
00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:10,720
Speaker 2: sales strategy after promising investors it would stop, and then

450
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:14,440
Speaker 2: ignored internal warnings about the risks of doing so. According

451
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:19,080
Speaker 2: to previously unreported internal documents. The reporter with those documents

452
00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:23,520
Speaker 2: Bloomberg's Brody Ford, this is so interesting. So basically management

453
00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:26,520
Speaker 2: have been said told don't use this, there are risks.

454
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:29,479
Speaker 2: They carried on using it, and you found out about it.

455
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:30,320
Speaker 2: Take us from there.

456
00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:34,840
Speaker 10: Yeah, taking a step back and April, Autodesk said, Yo,

457
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:38,439
Speaker 10: we cannot file our financial disclosures. We'll come back to you,

458
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:41,240
Speaker 10: and the whole market said, oh my god, what's going

459
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:43,480
Speaker 10: on here. This is unheard of for the size of

460
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:47,919
Speaker 10: a publicly traded company. Eventually they said that yeah, we

461
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 10: had some problems with these deals, but it was still

462
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:53,920
Speaker 10: somewhat vague. And so what we found out through these

463
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:58,000
Speaker 10: documents is that Autodesk pledged to stop doing a specific

464
00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:01,160
Speaker 10: kind of deal that essentially frow loads the cash flow.

465
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:03,639
Speaker 10: I'm not going to board with the details. But they

466
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,600
Speaker 10: kept doing it quietly. And the reason they kept doing

467
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:09,119
Speaker 10: it is because they were reliance on these deals to

468
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,520
Speaker 10: meet free cash flow targets. Right. We see in these

469
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:18,000
Speaker 10: documents that employees warned executives, hey, this might hurt our

470
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:20,960
Speaker 10: long term revenue. This increases the chances of us making

471
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,399
Speaker 10: a serious mistake, maybe like the one we saw earlier

472
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:26,679
Speaker 10: this year. But they pledged on because you know, you

473
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:28,320
Speaker 10: gotta meet those financial targets.

474
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:33,200
Speaker 3: But this had big ramifications. The accounting probe finished in May,

475
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:37,360
Speaker 3: the board decided to remove the clifford Is CFO. I mean,

476
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:41,160
Speaker 3: what more could they do to make everyone take this seriously.

477
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:42,920
Speaker 7: Correct?

478
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 10: Yeah, they removed the CFO. The board decided that a

479
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:50,119
Speaker 10: little bit earlier this year, and since then activists investors

480
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 10: Starboard has entered the stocks, saying, in part the handling

481
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:56,680
Speaker 10: of this probe was not good enough that investors didn't

482
00:24:56,680 --> 00:25:00,480
Speaker 10: get enough accountability. They didn't really know what happened. How

483
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 10: wide was the pool of knowledge here? And again what

484
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:05,840
Speaker 10: these documents show is that the pool of knowledge was

485
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,560
Speaker 10: quite wide. I mean we see executives signing off on

486
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 10: these deals saying that, hey, we got to meet these targets.

487
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:13,760
Speaker 10: You know, let's pursue them.

488
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 7: In terms of.

489
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 10: Ramifications, Starboard is requesting things like considering whether the current

490
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:23,640
Speaker 10: CEO is still the right guy for the job, as

491
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,679
Speaker 10: well as the kind of traditional activist stuff like let's

492
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,600
Speaker 10: raise margins and you know all that kind of thing.

493
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,360
Speaker 2: Brady, real quickly, forgive me this one. Just the basics

494
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:36,160
Speaker 2: of what Autodesk is and does and why people might

495
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:36,720
Speaker 2: or might not.

496
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 10: Know it totally. Autodesk is like Adobe for the physical world.

497
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:44,680
Speaker 10: That bridge behind you, probably Autodesk was used in some

498
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 10: capacity to design it, right, most buildings you see their

499
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:51,520
Speaker 10: software was designed for. They have a very interesting vertical

500
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,080
Speaker 10: that they really own. It's one of those kind of

501
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:57,120
Speaker 10: large software markets you almost don't think about because they

502
00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 10: are so entrenched in their market. It's a very interesting

503
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 10: set of very.

504
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 2: Offer Bloomberg's Brady Ford with another top piece of reporting Carrot.

505
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely on it. Meanwhile, just switch gears ed. We're

506
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:12,359
Speaker 3: going to look at fintech for a moment because Revolute

507
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 3: said that a secondary share sale that allowed it basically

508
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:17,879
Speaker 3: to give employees some liquidity for their stakes value. The

509
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:20,399
Speaker 3: company at get this forty five billion dollars the new

510
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,199
Speaker 3: valuation for the UK unicorn. It's up from thirty three

511
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 3: billion price tag that it received back in twenty twenty one.

512
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:28,480
Speaker 3: And actually that's the interesting point here, And like many

513
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,200
Speaker 3: of its rivals in fintech, Revelue hasn't had to raise

514
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,439
Speaker 3: money since then in recent years, and it's allowed it

515
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,359
Speaker 3: to basically avoid those sharp declines of valuation that many

516
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,919
Speaker 3: peers have suffered. But at the same time, let's go

517
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,399
Speaker 3: to another peer. Let's go to a European fintech that's

518
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:44,480
Speaker 3: saking liquidity, and it's Klana, and it is inching ever

519
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:47,439
Speaker 3: closer to its USIPO next year, with sources saying that

520
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:49,879
Speaker 3: the company is seeking a valuation of around twenty billion

521
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:53,440
Speaker 3: dollars now. The Klana CEO joined Bloomberg Daybreak Europe earlier

522
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 3: today to discuss those plans and his outlook for the company.

523
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:56,920
Speaker 3: Just take a listen.

524
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 11: People really appreciate mostly about is that two years ago

525
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 11: this business was you know, very much attractive, growing fast

526
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 11: in the US, but also loss making. And in just

527
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 11: two years we have increased revenue by fifty percent, we

528
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 11: have increased gross profit by one hundred percent, and we

529
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 11: reduce costs in thirty percent, which means that now we're

530
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 11: are you know, profitable And I think those kind of

531
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 11: financial performances obviously do raise the eyeboras a little bit

532
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 11: with investors also, as we have, due to AI, committed

533
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:28,880
Speaker 11: to continue shrinking the company. We've already gone from four

534
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 11: to half thousand to three and a half thousand in

535
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:33,680
Speaker 11: the last year, and we are committed to continuing on

536
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 11: that path, not by layoffs but simply by natural attritionids.

537
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:42,200
Speaker 12: You've been an early mover on Jenai, and you reached

538
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 12: down to Sam Moltman of chat GBT open ai pretty

539
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:46,919
Speaker 12: pretty early on in all of this. What's been one

540
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 12: of the most surprising things that stood out to you

541
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:53,160
Speaker 12: as you've embedded some of this genai across the business.

542
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that it is to me in a way.

543
00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 11: I would actually partially say that like I was even

544
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:01,920
Speaker 11: you know, kind of pulled into the hype a year ago.

545
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:03,720
Speaker 11: We're a little bit like we you know again self

546
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 11: driving cars. You know, we used to read about them

547
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 11: in the press every day and then you would look

548
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:09,440
Speaker 11: out the window and like, where are they? Where are

549
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 11: they not happening? And now it's actually happening. And I

550
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:14,120
Speaker 11: think that like to somebody, I was almost like drawn

551
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 11: into the hype.

552
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:15,239
Speaker 10: A year ago as well.

553
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 11: It's like, okay, in the year you know, the whole

554
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:20,199
Speaker 11: thing will already have like totally dramatically change everything, and

555
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:22,359
Speaker 11: now you almost had the opposite. You hear people say, oh,

556
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:24,400
Speaker 11: we tried it, and give us the results and so forth.

557
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:26,359
Speaker 2: But in tonally, what I'm seeing to plan is that

558
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 2: it is working.

559
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:29,440
Speaker 11: It's just it will take a little bit for other

560
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 11: time before it will have the full implications to us.

561
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:34,160
Speaker 11: We've already had delivered so fantastic results, but we were

562
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 11: super excited.

563
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:35,439
Speaker 7: What's coming in the.

564
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 12: Next twelve months before we let you go? It's about

565
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 12: you Look, what do we win you back? You're going

566
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 12: to list in the US. That's a suggestion, that's the expectation.

567
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 12: What does Europe and the UK need to do? Is

568
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 12: there anything they can do to win this listing?

569
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 11: Well, one thing that I have said to regulators in

570
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 11: the year, because there's been so much discussion in Brussels

571
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 11: as well, how do we create a competitive market? And

572
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 11: I have suggested and actually get some positive from some

573
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 11: of the foreign ministers, was invited with all the finance

574
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 11: binases over you, is that I think that if if

575
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 11: Europe will never you know, will never agree on like

576
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 11: where should listing shuld the big stock market be? Is

577
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 11: in Prairies, is it Frankfurt, is it you know whatever,

578
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 11: European country? So the only way to actually get this

579
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 11: to work is if if you would mandate all the

580
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 11: stock sciations in Europe so that any stock that is

581
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:23,800
Speaker 11: listed in one is automatically trading in another. I think

582
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 11: that could reach the critical mass to create an investor

583
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 11: base that is, you know, similar size that one we

584
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 11: see in the US, because that's really one of the

585
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 11: biggest challenges when you make US comparisons. If the company

586
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:36,760
Speaker 11: like ours is already mostly US business from revenue size,

587
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,200
Speaker 11: it will have to be a you know, a similar

588
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 11: size of investment base and stock market size to make

589
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:43,920
Speaker 11: it a relevant listening point.

590
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 2: That was clan A CEO Sebastian shimi at Kowski. Coming

591
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 2: up on the program, We're going to be joined by

592
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 2: Hibba Amva from the Ericsson Immigration Group to discuss the

593
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 2: impact of the election on H one B visas and

594
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 2: in turn the world of technology.

595
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 3: Caro, I just want to go back to that question

596
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 3: of dual listings and what certain nations and territories have

597
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 3: to do to woo over other companies, because get this

598
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 3: av point. It's a new Jersey based company software company

599
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 3: it's considering actually second listing outside of the US and Singapore.

600
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 3: People with knowledge of the matter have been saying it

601
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 3: would be a deal that basically bring US infrastructure software

602
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 3: firm a step closer to some of its big backers.

603
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 3: Remember they had a big chunk of change from Temasek.

604
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 3: This is blue big technology.

605
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 13: The H one and by visa policy is really critical

606
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 13: for the tech industry, and Trump does not have a

607
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 13: positive track record there. So I think having a president

608
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 13: who understands the importance of immigration in this country is

609
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 13: really critical.

610
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 3: Venture capitalist Shrewdi Shah one of the signatories of VC's

611
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:59,280
Speaker 3: for Kamala group supporting the campaign of Kamala Harris. And

612
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 3: as we look ahead to the DNC that' starts next

613
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 3: week H one B visas, I think it'll be a

614
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 3: topic that's type of mind, certainly off of the tech industry.

615
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 3: That's bring in our next guest to discuss him. Advert

616
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 3: partner with the ericson Immigration group, And I ask you there, Hibbert,

617
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 3: will we get much clarity? Do you need more clarity

618
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,480
Speaker 3: from the position of the immigration from the Democratic ticket?

619
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 14: So I think that the companies that operate in the

620
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:27,520
Speaker 14: tech industry, as well as the AI industry, semiconductor, basically

621
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 14: any industry in which the United States wants to be

622
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 14: a global leader and continue to dominate, they're definitely looking

623
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 14: for a lot more clarity when it comes to what

624
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 14: the next president's policy is going to be with respect

625
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 14: to high skilled immigration. And the reason that this is

626
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 14: so important for companies, particularly in the tech sector, is

627
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 14: because there is a heavy reliance on visas like the

628
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 14: H one B visa, because when it comes to employees

629
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 14: who have the necessary STEM skills that these companies are

630
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 14: looking for, demands still very much outweighs supply, and so

631
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,240
Speaker 14: whoever the next present cident is going to be, it's

632
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 14: really really important to point out that what we really

633
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 14: need for the success of the tech industry and other

634
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 14: industries is an immigration policy that actually reflects a twenty

635
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 14: first century economy.

636
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:16,360
Speaker 2: Hebert. Former President Trump actually gave some detail on how

637
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 2: he'd approach visas, particularly those originating from students of US universities,

638
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 2: on the All In podcasts, and then he discussed it

639
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 2: with Bloomberg in July as well. Have you had any

640
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 2: detail or sense from the Harris ticket on a specific

641
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 2: approach to technology relevant visas?

642
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,720
Speaker 14: So what we know about Vice President Harris is that

643
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 14: she definitely has close ties to the tech industry. There

644
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 14: were two hundred tech leaders who came out and endorsed

645
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 14: her publicly. Now, as you mentioned, the DNC is right

646
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 14: around the corner. So we're definitely going to learn a

647
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 14: lot more here in the next few days. But what

648
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 14: most people are expecting of Vice President Harris is that

649
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 14: she's going to continue President Biden's approach to high skilled immigration,

650
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,480
Speaker 14: and President Biden's approach has been in large part walking

651
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 14: back Trump era policy.

652
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 2: I wonder if we could sort of take a bipartisan

653
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 2: look at the mechanics of getting a visa in the

654
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 2: federal administration of visas. I got my first visa in

655
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 2: twenty eighteen under the Trump administration and had to renew

656
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 2: it in the chaos of COVID. But how easy procedurally

657
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 2: is it now in this day state, right this moment

658
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:31,760
Speaker 2: to get an H one B.

659
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 14: So it's not necessarily as difficult as it was during

660
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:40,880
Speaker 14: the Trump administration. The experience that a lot of immigration

661
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 14: practitioners had during the Trump administration was that the process

662
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 14: was a lot longer and it felt somewhat inefficient. I

663
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 14: think that that's why it's really important to watch what

664
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 14: the results of this election are going to be because

665
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 14: some of the concerns that the companies have experiences, whether

666
00:33:57,200 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 14: or not policy pertaining to H one B visas and

667
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 14: policies surrounding high skilled immigration are actually going to act

668
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 14: as a deterrent and discourage high skill talent from coming

669
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 14: to the United States and making the United States their home.

670
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 14: And if that happens, then companies are going to run

671
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 14: into issues in terms of whether they can remain competitive

672
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 14: because they may not necessarily be able to hire the

673
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 14: best and brighters from around the world.

674
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 3: And perhaps we see what occurred back in previous administration

675
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 3: where Canada suddenly got a lot of high skill perhaps

676
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 3: versus the United States. What about other types of visas?

677
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 3: We all focus in so much on an H one B,

678
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:33,399
Speaker 3: but I came in twenty eighteen on an L one.

679
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:36,160
Speaker 3: I mean, how many other routes are there to be

680
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 3: and contribute to the US economy.

681
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:43,319
Speaker 14: I think that there are several other routes, but the

682
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:47,440
Speaker 14: eligibility standards are a little bit more controlled and restricted.

683
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:50,040
Speaker 14: And that's why the H one D visa is so important.

684
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:52,800
Speaker 14: It's the type of visa that a lot more people

685
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:56,439
Speaker 14: could potentially be eligible for, and as a result, it's

686
00:34:56,520 --> 00:35:01,560
Speaker 14: the most frequently leveraged employer sponsored visa by several industries,

687
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 14: including the tech industry. And so with respect to policy,

688
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 14: when it comes to high skilled immigration. You know, WOLS

689
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:11,239
Speaker 14: policy surrounding H and B visas is definitely going to

690
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 14: be top of mind. It's really important to continue to

691
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 14: have immigration policy that actually encourages talent to come to

692
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 14: the United States and innovate, because the next time somebody

693
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 14: you know, founds the next Google or the next Tesla,

694
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:28,440
Speaker 14: we still want that to be an American company.

695
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:33,399
Speaker 2: Cuba and the ericson Immigration Group, thank you very much.

696
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 2: There are other news headlines out there in the world

697
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:36,520
Speaker 2: of tech. Carry yeah, it's.

698
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 3: Time for talking tech. First up, we're going to discuss

699
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:42,120
Speaker 3: SpaceX announcing it will launch a me faned satellite to

700
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 3: track super bolluters. Now, Carbon Mapper is a nonprofit behind

701
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:48,120
Speaker 3: the satellite, and it will be the second methane detecting

702
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:51,359
Speaker 3: satellite launched in the past six months. This reflects basically

703
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:54,480
Speaker 3: growing scrutiny around the greenhouse gas and the satellite's low

704
00:35:54,680 --> 00:36:00,080
Speaker 3: cost to atmospheric monitoring. Meanwhile, you tariffs, they're slowing the

705
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 3: influx of Chinese made evs. In July now, according to

706
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:07,440
Speaker 3: research from Data Force, the number of new electric vehicles

707
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 3: from Chinese manufacturers registered in the EU found forty five

708
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:13,440
Speaker 3: percent in June. Look, that's his carmakers actually rushed to

709
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:15,880
Speaker 3: get their products to dealers before the towers took effect

710
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:20,360
Speaker 3: on July fifth, and Jack Mars backing of course and Groove,

711
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:23,240
Speaker 3: and it's said to be in discussions to acquire Chinese

712
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 3: healthcare platform howds dot com. That's acording to sources now

713
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 3: a group is seeing and looking to integrate its tech

714
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 3: within the website and an effort to basically beef up

715
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:34,880
Speaker 3: its AI services in healthcare.

716
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 1: The ORB before you is made by a startup called

717
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:51,279
Speaker 1: Tools for Humanity. If it looks all too dramatic, that's

718
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:54,799
Speaker 1: sort of the point. The backers of the company, which

719
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 1: include Sam Altman, the CEO of OpenAI, have put two

720
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:02,799
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty million this venture and want folks to

721
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 1: take notice of their ORB. This is because they want

722
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:08,360
Speaker 1: to use it to scan the irises of as many

723
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 1: people around the world as possible, all as part of

724
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:16,320
Speaker 1: their main project known as world Coin. If you allow

725
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 1: world Cooin to scan your iris, two things happen. You

726
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 1: get a small chunk of the world Coin cryptocurrency, and

727
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 1: you're certified as a real, living human, which the company

728
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 1: hopes will lead to a reduction in fraud on the

729
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 1: Internet and provide better access to banking and social services. Critics, however,

730
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:38,759
Speaker 1: are wary about the ethics of biometric collection and the

731
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 1: possible exploitation of users from developing countries.

732
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 2: You can check out the full episode of that Bloomberg

733
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 2: original's piece on Bloomberg dot com and joining us now

734
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 2: is the co founder of worldcoin himself, Alex Blania Alex,

735
00:37:56,360 --> 00:38:00,279
Speaker 2: Welcome to Bloomberg Technology. In Ashley Vance's Very Deep Tell

736
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:04,400
Speaker 2: BusinessWeek's story, he talks about how when you describe worldcoin

737
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:08,279
Speaker 2: to someone the project, it can sound nuts, and you

738
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 2: were cited as saying that you think there's just a

739
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 2: five percent probability five that you'll succeed. How do you

740
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 2: arrive at that number?

741
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:22,960
Speaker 15: I think it's just a very ambitious project. And Ashley

742
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:26,680
Speaker 15: and I talked about massive success, like a large percentage

743
00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 15: of the kind of people in the world actually signing

744
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:33,319
Speaker 15: up and verifying with our services. I think that's just

745
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 15: a lo perability. I think we will we will increase

746
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 15: the probertly over time and do our best to succeed.

747
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 15: But I think with very kind of very ambitious technology company,

748
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:45,799
Speaker 15: that's that's probably what you're looking at and just try

749
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:46,799
Speaker 15: to be realistic about that.

750
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:51,319
Speaker 3: Give us the elevator pitch of what success looks like, Alex, Well,

751
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:52,920
Speaker 3: the problem is that you will solve.

752
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:58,800
Speaker 15: So Semini started working on this company four and a

753
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:02,279
Speaker 15: half years ago and one of the one of the

754
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 15: main ideas was, of course that AGI and kind of

755
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 15: general AI progress will continue, and so we started a

756
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 15: company called Tools for Humanity with the simple goal of

757
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:17,879
Speaker 15: building tools for humanity scale that we think will turn

758
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 15: out to be very very important in a world in

759
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:24,160
Speaker 15: which AI will become increasingly powerful. And one of the

760
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 15: problems that are very easy to understand is that on

761
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:32,799
Speaker 15: social media X for example, it will be really really

762
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 15: hard to distinguish if you're interacting with a real human

763
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:41,720
Speaker 15: or if you're interacting with an AI. And we believe

764
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:44,359
Speaker 15: that this will turn out to be a very very

765
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:48,320
Speaker 15: critical problem for our democracy for many really things, for

766
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:51,040
Speaker 15: many things that we care about, to protect many of

767
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:56,279
Speaker 15: us services against influenced by AI, and really make sure

768
00:39:56,280 --> 00:40:00,800
Speaker 15: we only interface with humans. And so basically for years back,

769
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 15: we thought about how that would work and what technology

770
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 15: would need to build, and so that's what we did.

771
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:08,880
Speaker 7: We built about biometric.

772
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 15: Device that we distribute all of the world, and we

773
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 15: allow everyone.

774
00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:16,400
Speaker 3: To verify in everyone being so far six million unique humans.

775
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:18,640
Speaker 3: I think it is in growing verified by the ORB.

776
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:22,720
Speaker 3: But the issue here is how many of those humans

777
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:24,719
Speaker 3: actually understand what it is that they're giving you and

778
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:26,879
Speaker 3: why they're giving it. There is an argument that people

779
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 3: are standing in line in Ecuador and in developing nations

780
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:31,919
Speaker 3: thinking they're just going to get reward with a little

781
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:33,960
Speaker 3: bit of money and giving over a lot of data

782
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:36,280
Speaker 3: that they don't really understand. How you counteract that.

783
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:39,800
Speaker 15: Well, they don't. In fact, they don't give us anything.

784
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:42,400
Speaker 15: We don't store any data that the network does to

785
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:44,840
Speaker 15: storing data. It's implemented in a self custodial way, and

786
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:47,920
Speaker 15: it uses what's called zero knowledge proofs to give you

787
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 15: truly fundamental privacy guarantees. That's one, and then second, I

788
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 15: would argue that you don't understand most of the technologies

789
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:56,400
Speaker 15: you're using. That's also not the point. I think you

790
00:40:56,480 --> 00:41:00,279
Speaker 15: understand why you're doing it and what comes up for you,

791
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:02,399
Speaker 15: but I don't think you have to understand every detail

792
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:04,120
Speaker 15: about technology, And that would be my.

793
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:06,919
Speaker 2: Response, Alex, You've spent a lot of time flying around

794
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:10,240
Speaker 2: the world with Sam Autman to countries trying to convince

795
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:12,440
Speaker 2: them if they've placed a ban on the technology, to

796
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 2: overturn it. You've had success in South career in Kenya.

797
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:18,719
Speaker 2: There are other countries where it stands. What is the

798
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:21,200
Speaker 2: concern that you hear most consistently from them?

799
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:24,960
Speaker 15: So we only actually hit one band and that is

800
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:31,280
Speaker 15: that is Hong Kong. We paused another in other countries

801
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:34,480
Speaker 15: to work with regulators, but that is what we expected.

802
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 15: This is a very new technology and there's many questions

803
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 15: to we ask for regulators.

804
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:38,879
Speaker 7: That is their job.

805
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:42,759
Speaker 15: So we we really work with regulators and respond to

806
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:46,239
Speaker 15: the questions and their main concerns. Our main questions is

807
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:49,239
Speaker 15: nothing that I think would really surprise you. It is

808
00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:52,719
Speaker 15: what happens to the data, how does technology work? And

809
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:56,439
Speaker 15: all of that of course an increasing detail, but we're

810
00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:59,439
Speaker 15: really happy to answer to these questions and regulators around

811
00:41:59,440 --> 00:41:59,759
Speaker 15: the world.

812
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:02,799
Speaker 2: Alex, we've just got a minute or so left. What

813
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:05,200
Speaker 2: is the benefit to humanity that you want to provide

814
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 2: with this technology?

815
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:10,799
Speaker 15: Well, I think I think it will turn out to

816
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:15,160
Speaker 15: be truly critical. I think services like x social media,

817
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:18,640
Speaker 15: many things that we care about, will otherwise be really

818
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:21,160
Speaker 15: hard to use or are very easy to influence, and

819
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:24,759
Speaker 15: so I think for our democracy, for things that we

820
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:27,080
Speaker 15: care about, we will need such technology and I hope

821
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 15: we can contribute with that.

822
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 3: Thanks Plannia, come back on as you continue to build

823
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:34,880
Speaker 3: the amount of people using it. Of course, co founder

824
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:38,920
Speaker 3: of world Coin and also humanity, we appreciate it. Meanwhile,

825
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:41,000
Speaker 3: that does it for this edition of Bloomberg Technology.

826
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 2: Yep, another week of earnings, economic data and innovation recap

827
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:46,839
Speaker 2: it on the podcast. You know where to find it

828
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:49,840
Speaker 2: on the terminal, Apple, Spotify, and iHeart big thanks to

829
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 2: the team in New York City with Caro and out

830
00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:56,360
Speaker 2: with a crew here in San Francisco. This is Bloomberg Technology.