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Speaker 1: Take a deep breath in through your nose. Hold it.

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Speaker 2: Now, release slowly again deep in, helle hold release, repeating

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Speaker 2: internally to yourself as you connect to my voice. I

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Speaker 2: am deeply, deeply well. I am deeply well. I am deeply.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 2: I'm Debbie Brown and this is the Deeply Well Podcast.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Deeply Well, a soft place to land on

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Speaker 2: your journey. A podcast for those that are curious, creative,

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Speaker 2: and ready to expand in higher consciousness and self care.

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Speaker 2: I'm Debbie Brown. This is where we heal, this is

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Speaker 2: where we become. Today's show has been about two years

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Speaker 2: in the making. Maybe it is one that I have

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Speaker 2: been so excited about, and I just have a feeling

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Speaker 2: that as you settle in to listen to this show,

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Speaker 2: you might want to get your journal, keep it handy,

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Speaker 2: you might want to get some tea, and you might

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Speaker 2: just want to find, if you're able, a comfortable place

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Speaker 2: to sit as we dive in to the story of

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Speaker 2: a truly, truly incredible person. Today's guest is Shaka Sanor,

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Speaker 2: who currently serves as the president and creative director of

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Speaker 2: Shaka Singor, Inc. Previously, he held the role of vice

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Speaker 2: president of Corporate Communications at Navin, a nine billion dollar

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Speaker 2: valued online travel management, corporate, card and expense management company.

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Speaker 2: During his time at Navin, Shaka played a pivotal role

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Speaker 2: in shaping the company's strategic evolution. His leadership was instrumental

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Speaker 2: in the successful execution of a comprehensive company rebrand, the

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Speaker 2: development of cutting edge sales and success training programs, and

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Speaker 2: the formulation of a robust DEI strategy. Shaka is a

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Speaker 2: distinguished author, with his memoir Writing My Wrongs, Life, Death

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Speaker 2: and Redemption in an American Prison achieving recognition on the

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Speaker 2: New York Times and the Washington Post bestseller lists. His

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Speaker 2: sophomore mainstream release, Letters to the Sons of Society, was

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Speaker 2: released in twenty twenty two to critical acclaim and was

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Speaker 2: a two time Porchlight bestseller. His twenty fourteen TED talk,

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Speaker 2: with over one point five million views, Why Your Worst

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Speaker 2: Deeds Don't Define You, was featured in the Year and

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Speaker 2: Ideas Roundup. Shaka is the recipient of numerous awards. He

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Speaker 2: was recently recognized by the Oprah Winfrey Network as a

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Speaker 2: sole Igniter and the inaugural class of the Super Soul

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Speaker 2: one hundred, a dynamic group of trailblazers whose vision and

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Speaker 2: life's work are bringing a higher level of consciousness to

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Speaker 2: the world around them and encouraging others to do the same.

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Speaker 2: He has taught at the University of Michigan and shares

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Speaker 2: the story of Redemption around the world with top businesses, universities,

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Speaker 2: and in popular media. Today's Shakus priority is shifting societal

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Speaker 2: narratives by creating content with deep social impact and high

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Speaker 2: entertainment value. Whoo, welcome to the show.

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Speaker 3: King. Thank you so much for having me. It's such

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Speaker 3: a pleasure to be here. I know this was, you know,

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Speaker 3: a couple of years in the making, but I believe

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Speaker 3: in divine timing and so I am super excited to

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Speaker 3: be in conversation with you.

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Speaker 2: Oh I'm so happy. And we on the drive over here,

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Speaker 2: I was thinking about when we met. We met a

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Speaker 2: couple of years ago, which is why I say two

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Speaker 2: years in the making, because that was like our moment

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Speaker 2: of meeting. We met in New York. We're both at

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Speaker 2: the Mental Wealth Alliance Expo, which is a phenomenal, incredible

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Speaker 2: event that has gone on for the last three years.

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Speaker 2: That is the brainchild of my dear brother Charlottene the God. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and I remember, you know, we both were there. We

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Speaker 2: were each giving our own talks, and I think we

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Speaker 2: were on some panels and we were just being with

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Speaker 2: the just the gorgeous community that comes out there. But

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Speaker 2: we just clicked right away and I was like, you

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Speaker 2: gotta get on the podcast please.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, I think that's the beautiful thing about Vibrations, right,

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Speaker 3: It's when you're showing up authentically and that space is

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Speaker 3: so magical. You know, It's one of the many things

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Speaker 3: that I love about what Charlamagne and Doctor Alphie has convenced.

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Speaker 3: It's like it's a community of people who are on

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Speaker 3: this kind of quest of really understand this deeper purpose

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Speaker 3: in life and so connecting instantaneously just felt, you know,

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Speaker 3: so authentically true to what that space really embodies.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's interesting reading your bio because it's I mean,

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Speaker 2: it's shocked full of just incredibly substantial and impressive things

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Speaker 2: kind of in a range, like in a multitude of ways,

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Speaker 2: like in the business world and the human world, and

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Speaker 2: the really in the understanding that you are a master

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Speaker 2: teacher for the world world, that you're in high service

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Speaker 2: with what you have experienced in your life, and the

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Speaker 2: way that you have moved through it and used it.

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Speaker 2: But even in reading miss it's like it doesn't it

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Speaker 2: really doesn't kind of scratch the surface on the depth

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Speaker 2: of experience in your inner world.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 3: Yes, it's the funny thing about bios. You know, always

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Speaker 3: krims when I hear my bio being read, because You're right,

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Speaker 3: it doesn't really encapsulate all of who I am and

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Speaker 3: what I'm about and the journey I've been on. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I think it's great that we're able to kind of

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Speaker 3: timestamp these moments in our career life. But when you

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Speaker 3: get to like that deeper meaning, that deeper purpose, like

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Speaker 3: a bio can't quite capture that, which is one of

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Speaker 3: the reasons I actually write so I can fill in

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Speaker 3: kind of the things that's kind of between the lions.

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Speaker 2: M I love that where I would love to start

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Speaker 2: with you. You know, something I've been thinking about is

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Speaker 2: we I'm very curious your thoughts on this. When I

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Speaker 2: think about the way that purpose moves through my life

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Speaker 2: and the way that God speaks to me, there are

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Speaker 2: certain streams of thought that I have been exploring since childhood,

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Speaker 2: and I didn't know why. Multitude of things like very

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Speaker 2: specific things to the human condition. But I remember being

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Speaker 2: in my awareness young and I've always just kind of

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Speaker 2: tracked it. So growing up, I didn't directly know anyone

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Speaker 2: that had been incarcerated. I grew up with a single

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Speaker 2: mom and it was really us, so I didn't I

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Speaker 2: wasn't in close community with a lot of other people

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Speaker 2: having big experiences in that way, But it was something

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Speaker 2: that was always kind of, you know, I think by

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Speaker 2: nature of growing up in la and some of the

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Speaker 2: places I grew up, by nature of being, you know,

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Speaker 2: a woman and a family of color, I think that's

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Speaker 2: an experience we're always hyper aware of and always in

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Speaker 2: some ways connected to, even if it's not your innerpersonal family.

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Speaker 2: And I remember, just since childhood, I have always thought

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Speaker 2: about what happens to the brain and the heart in prison,

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Speaker 2: and I never really understood why, but it's something I

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Speaker 2: have always always thought about, and I think since I've

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Speaker 2: come into all of the work that I do now

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Speaker 2: and the way that I see the world now, it's like,

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Speaker 2: I know, we know this right, And people have been

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Speaker 2: on the front lines of prison reform for centuries, for

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Speaker 2: decades have known this and have said.

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Speaker 3: This, but it's just.

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Speaker 2: It is so inhumane, cruel, and it does not work.

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Speaker 2: It does not work. We are putting people back into

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Speaker 2: the world in pieces and shards. It's like the most

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Speaker 2: next to like slavery. It is the most gaslighting I

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Speaker 2: think we could ever do to a collection of people

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Speaker 2: in this society. You know, it's.

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Speaker 3: It, yeah, I mean, it's one of the saddest you know,

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Speaker 3: parts of our culture is how we have handled these

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Speaker 3: systems that have a profile impact on not just the

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Speaker 3: black community, but the world at large. When you think

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Speaker 3: about you know, there's over two point five million people

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Speaker 3: incarcerated at any point in time, about seventeen million people

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Speaker 3: who have felonies, and so you know, when I think

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Speaker 3: about even my re entry into society, I had to

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Speaker 3: do a lot of work before I got out. And

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Speaker 3: one of the most heartbreaking things that I experienced to

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Speaker 3: this day is watching someone come home who really isn't hole.

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Speaker 3: It's almost nearly impossible, you know. I remember at one

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Speaker 3: point people used to be like, You're an anomaly, and

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Speaker 3: I used to reject that, like, I'm not an anomaly,

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Speaker 3: Like I know so many incredible human beings in that environment.

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Speaker 3: And while that's true, there's some things that I had

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Speaker 3: to discover on my own own journey and turn in

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Speaker 3: regards to like how deeply and pro finally impacted my

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Speaker 3: life was by incarceration. You don't go through that level

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Speaker 3: of trauma and not come out with deep scars. A

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Speaker 3: lot of those scars are invisible, you know for a

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Speaker 3: lot of us, because we come out as kind of

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Speaker 3: high performers. And even that that ability to perform at

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Speaker 3: such a high level is really triggered by our trauma

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Speaker 3: of not wanting to fail and not wanting to be

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Speaker 3: tripped up and trap back into that environment. And so

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Speaker 3: it's kind of like like you're on this you're running,

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Speaker 3: you know, you're running from this past. And so in

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Speaker 3: recent times I really started to kind of peel back

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Speaker 3: the layers, and what I discovered was that one I

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Speaker 3: came home with arrested development. You know, I went to

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Speaker 3: prison when I was nineteen years old, but that was

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Speaker 3: only the beginning of my understanding is that prior to prison,

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Speaker 3: I lived a very traumatic life. You know, from about

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Speaker 3: thirteen to the age of nineteen, I was in the streets,

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Speaker 3: and the level of trauma, though the street culch has

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Speaker 3: been glorified, we just don't talk about we don't talk

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Speaker 3: about the trauma that young black male specifically experienced in

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Speaker 3: our walk through life and so forth. You know, six

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Speaker 3: years before I even got arrested, I was, you know,

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Speaker 3: in prison by this ideology that my life could only

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Speaker 3: end in one of two ways. Dead are in jail.

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Speaker 3: Both my older brothers had went to prison, Many of

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Speaker 3: my friends had went to prison, many of them had

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Speaker 3: been shot killed. And so I walked into prison with trauma,

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Speaker 3: and then that trauma was compounded by the violence and

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Speaker 3: brutality of the system. And so when I begin to

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Speaker 3: really start to think about that, I'm like the fact

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Speaker 3: that I'm here having this conversation with you, I recognize

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Speaker 3: it as a miracle. I don't take these things for granted,

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Speaker 3: and I wake up in the spirit of gratitude of

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Speaker 3: that my life is definitely blessed in a myriad of ways. Right. Yes,

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Speaker 3: I'm chalented and all those things, but my spirit being

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Speaker 3: able to be intact, you know, a somewhat intact when

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Speaker 3: I left that environment is nothing short of a miracle.

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Speaker 3: And so where I grieve is that I see so

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Speaker 3: many men and women come home and their families are

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Speaker 3: excited to have them home as they should be, but

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Speaker 3: their families are unaware of this deeper sense of trauma

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Speaker 3: that we're navigating. So it's the rest of development. It

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Speaker 3: is the indignity of being in an environment that strips

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Speaker 3: you of whatever similus of humanity you have left. And

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Speaker 3: it starts very early on, you know. I tell people now,

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Speaker 3: like one day of incarceration is enough to break a

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Speaker 3: human spirit. You know, you have someone your first experience

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Speaker 3: of being stripped of everything, like the physical stripping of

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Speaker 3: your clothes, the access to parts of your body that

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Speaker 3: you haven't even you know, looked into, and to know

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Speaker 3: that that's normalized in that environment, you know, so that

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Speaker 3: boots Holy Plan out over and over is where you know,

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Speaker 3: I'm constantly thinking about how do we humanize and help

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Speaker 3: people understand that we can't hope for people to come

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Speaker 3: out and live a productive life if we are unwilling

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Speaker 3: to recognize that this system is designed to break them beyond.

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Speaker 1: Repair, break foundry beyond repair.

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Speaker 2: God bah, I just want to sit in that for

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Speaker 2: a second, because this is our humanity, right like, this

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Speaker 2: is this is not something to just you know, just

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Speaker 2: say wow, that's steep. It's like let it in your

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Speaker 2: heart wherever you're listening in right now. I want you

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Speaker 2: to think about the way that you relate to the

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Speaker 2: word dignity, the way that you are able or not

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Speaker 2: able based on life's experiences to feel safe inside of

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Speaker 2: your body, and the way you would react if you

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Speaker 2: didn't have the ability to make any choices for yourself,

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Speaker 2: especially choices about your own body. It's it's just And

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Speaker 2: you know, we obviously societally we split this into this

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Speaker 2: kind of conversation and narrative about right and wrong and

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Speaker 2: who deserves what and what is you know, recourse for

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Speaker 2: a certain kind of behavior. But my belief and understanding

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Speaker 2: of the human spirit and of the soul and of

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Speaker 2: God is you don't. It's an incredibly rare kind of

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Speaker 2: experience to find yourself in that kind of environment and

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Speaker 2: not have had been abused or traumatized in some way. First,

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Speaker 2: we are only as good as the choices we have

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Speaker 2: access to, right, And it's like society always wants to

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Speaker 2: talk about making better choices and do something different. And

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Speaker 2: it's like there is a legion of people that the

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Speaker 2: choice is dark or dark, right, Like there's not a

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Speaker 2: higher choice that you can make. You're only you can

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Speaker 2: only do with what's in front of you, what you

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Speaker 2: have access to. I want to read this piece from

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Speaker 2: your book that was incredibly powerful for me and to me,

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Speaker 2: this speaks to the greater essence of how we are

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Speaker 2: designed to come into enlightenment. So in your book you

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Speaker 2: shared and just to kind of center this for everyone,

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Speaker 2: you did nineteen years in prison, you did seven years

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Speaker 2: in solitary confinement, and four and a half of those

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Speaker 2: years were in one place with no movement. It's such

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Speaker 2: a miracle to have you here. Thank you, Thank you.

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Speaker 2: In your book you said, instead of solitary confinement, sell

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Speaker 2: it became a university. It became a creator's den, it

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Speaker 2: became a meditation room. There was nothing more liberating to me,

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Speaker 2: even being able to reimagine the most brutal of environments

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Speaker 2: as something positive. How do you get there in the

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Speaker 2: midst of that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's such a profound question and one that I

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Speaker 3: have been you know, answering, you know, within myself for

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Speaker 3: a long time, and you know, there are things. Again,

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Speaker 3: it's miraculous that I was able to get there, and

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Speaker 3: part of that miracle was just being literate, you know.

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Speaker 3: I was really fortunate. I met some of the most

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Speaker 3: incredible mentors in the world.

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Speaker 5: Uh.

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Speaker 3: These are men who were in our serving life sentences.

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Speaker 3: These are men who some have died in prison. These

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Speaker 3: are these are men who so something redeemable in me,

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Speaker 3: and they got in me the books. And I was

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Speaker 3: fortunate that I was literate enough, you know that I

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Speaker 3: can actually read and read these books. And so, you know,

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Speaker 3: books became like a portal into other worlds of possibility,

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Speaker 3: reading people's story who had went through adversity, who had

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Speaker 3: overcome adversity, who had to navigate the brutality of the

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Speaker 3: systems that existed during their times. You know, those books

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Speaker 3: helped me understand that no matter no matter how many

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Speaker 3: time life knocks you down, you can get up. And

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Speaker 3: if you decide to get up, you have to get

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Speaker 3: up swinging. And so I began to kind of structure

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Speaker 3: my days almost as if I was at a university,

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Speaker 3: and I would study a different subject matter each hour,

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Speaker 3: whatever books I had at says too. Sometimes I was

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Speaker 3: fortunate to be able to order books. I would hustle

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Speaker 3: and barter books, you know. So I had my friends.

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Speaker 3: Uh they used to smuggle me cigarettes down into solitary

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Speaker 3: for me to sell, and they would basically peel the

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Speaker 3: back of lowlightbrary books open, flatten the tobacco with it,

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Speaker 3: and then they would you know, glue it down with toothpaste,

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Speaker 3: put it in the books. Then I would get it.

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Speaker 3: I would let it dry out. You I would just

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Speaker 3: like roll up these little cigarettes and I would have

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Speaker 3: guys order me books. I would have them order me

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Speaker 3: notepads so that I can write. But those books for portals,

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Speaker 3: you know, they were portals into another world. And I

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Speaker 3: know I would not be here if I was not literate.

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Speaker 3: You know, when the OG's as I call them, when

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Speaker 3: they was trying to help me see that you know

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Speaker 3: I could, I would one day be free. I just

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Speaker 3: didn't believe it. You know, I was nineteen years old

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Speaker 3: looking at two decades. I mean at nineteen years old,

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Speaker 3: you can barely think two weeks down the line that

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Speaker 3: along two decades, and so words alone weren't enough. And

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Speaker 3: when they introduced me to books, it was really interesting

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Speaker 3: because it wasn't the books that people think like. They

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Speaker 3: introduced me to books like Pimp the Iceberg, Slams Dope Thing,

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Speaker 3: Donald Goins. But those stories cracked oupen the idea that

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Speaker 3: I can escape, I can get out of prison anytime

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Speaker 3: I wanted to by opening up a book. And then

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Speaker 3: once those books were exhausted, they was like, now read

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Speaker 3: this Malcolm X autobiography. And what I saw in Malcolm's

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Speaker 3: story was this determination, this will. I know, people you know,

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Speaker 3: think about his work as a as an activist or

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Speaker 3: human rights, civil rights, you know, leader. But what I

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Speaker 3: saw Malcolm as was intellectual, you know, somebody who was curious,

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Speaker 3: somebody who was willing to read the Dictionary from A

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Speaker 3: to C. And what Malcolm's book did was it led

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Speaker 3: me to all these other books, you know. It led

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Speaker 3: me to reading philosophy and understanding, you know, self help

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Speaker 3: books and poetry. And you know some of the most

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Speaker 3: brilliant writers from the Harlem Renaissance were like, you know,

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Speaker 3: I was able to escape into those worlds, you know,

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Speaker 3: but also read for to escape in other worlds. It's

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Speaker 3: like Jackie Collins Hollywood Wives. It's like those books were

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Speaker 3: like so turned up, and you know, Sidney Sheldon and

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Speaker 3: Stephen King and you know, all these books allowed me

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Speaker 3: to escape, you know, and and that was how I

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Speaker 3: was able to maintain my sanity. It was a book

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Speaker 3: that even helped me become aware of what happens when

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Speaker 3: you're in a solitary confinement. There's a book called Cages

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Speaker 3: of Steel, and in a book there's a psychiatrist. He's

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Speaker 3: outlining exactly what solitary confinement does to the human mind

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Speaker 3: and how in this book was really about how they

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Speaker 3: broke up the Black Panther Party, Black Liberation Army of

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Speaker 3: American Indian Movement. The idea was to use solitary confinement

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Speaker 3: as a tool to really drive people crazy. And so

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Speaker 3: when I would see myself drifting into some of the

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Speaker 3: things that he outlined, I would just grab a book

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Speaker 3: and a lot of times I would just open up

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Speaker 3: to any page and just start reading. And usually it

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Speaker 3: was like you know, Nelson Mandela, you know, it was

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Speaker 3: a side of secord. It was as a man think

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Speaker 3: of and so just the ability to grab a book

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Speaker 3: and open a page, it jarred me out of that moment,

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Speaker 3: you know, And then you know, I'll tell you this

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Speaker 3: last point. This is when I knew I had to

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Speaker 3: fight for my soul. You know, there were two things happening.

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Speaker 3: One I wanted to transform my life is I had

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Speaker 3: a responsibility to my oldest son. But I also knew

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Speaker 3: I had to save my soul. And I remember this

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Speaker 3: officer coming to myself and he wanted to do a

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Speaker 3: strip search. And I'm already in military confinement. And this

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00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:12,439
Speaker 3: guy was uneducated, you know, inarticulate. He looked very you know,

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Speaker 3: just ragged and torn down. And I remember saying to him, like,

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Speaker 3: I will not give you the dignity of stripping me,

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Speaker 3: So whatever the consequence is for that, and let's come

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Speaker 3: on with the consequence. And what I decided upon was

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Speaker 3: that I would never let anybody who was intellectually inferior

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Speaker 3: to me dictate the choices and the decisions that I'm

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Speaker 3: making my life. That's how I knew I would never

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Speaker 3: go back to prison.

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Speaker 4: Deeply, Wow, that is so powerful.

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Speaker 5: And that that power, right, that's the transcendence that knowing

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Speaker 5: that under that is the enlightenment in such a profound

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Speaker 5: way in physical reality.

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Speaker 1: Wow, there's so.

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Speaker 2: Much of what you just said. I was trying to

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Speaker 2: keep track of my notes in my mind of like

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Speaker 2: I want to get back to that. I want to

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Speaker 2: go back to that.

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Speaker 1: Hm.

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Speaker 2: Okay, first, just interesting to me. When I was thirteen

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Speaker 2: and fourteen, I read Pimp and I read Malcolm X,

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Speaker 2: and both of those books were really revolutionary to me

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Speaker 2: in a lot of ways in understanding the human psyche,

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Speaker 2: the human condition. And I've kind of noticed, so Malcolm

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Speaker 2: X has been a hero of mine since I was eight.

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Speaker 2: That's when the Denzel Spike Lee Malcolm X movie came

371
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Speaker 2: out four hours long. I remember it was the summer,

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Speaker 2: and I would spend the days by myself at my

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Speaker 2: aunt's house. Right, everybody got to work, so I was

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Speaker 2: there and I would turn on the TV. And I

375
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Speaker 2: remember it was playing on a loop in on HBO

376
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Speaker 2: at the time, and I watched it every single day

377
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Speaker 2: of the summer, four hours till I learned it by heart.

378
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Speaker 2: And so I think Malcolm X is one of the

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Speaker 2: greatest beings to ever grace the planet. And I think

380
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Speaker 2: we are so incredibly fortunate to he was not alive

381
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Speaker 2: in my lifetime, but within my lifetime his work has

382
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Speaker 2: been very felt and relevant in powerful ways. But something

383
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Speaker 2: I've noticed, and I'm curious what you think about this,

384
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Speaker 2: you know, I've noticed that there's always two versions of

385
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Speaker 2: a hero at any given time in history. Right, So

386
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Speaker 2: while we had Malcolm, we also had Doctor King, we

387
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:56,080
Speaker 2: had Martin. But while I can see, feel, feel, profoundly

388
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Speaker 2: grateful for the power of doctor Martin.

389
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Speaker 3: Luther.

390
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:03,399
Speaker 2: King felt more connected to Malcolm's message, very similar when

391
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Speaker 2: I think of other heroes in my life, Like Tupac

392
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:08,200
Speaker 2: has been a life long I've been in a lifelong

393
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:11,200
Speaker 2: deep connection with his music, and I think that there

394
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:16,960
Speaker 2: is something to having a traumatized experience and being able

395
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Speaker 2: to come into the power that you just described in

396
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:24,480
Speaker 2: that cell that resonates with my soul based on my

397
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:28,840
Speaker 2: life and the complex trauma I've experienced, and the radical

398
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,919
Speaker 2: nature of that is something that is always much like

399
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:35,200
Speaker 2: we're describing in how people end up in prison. It's

400
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 2: like those that are a little more radical in that way,

401
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 2: whatever that word means to society, seem to be invoked

402
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 2: such a violent reaction in people. So it's like you're

403
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,520
Speaker 2: already traumatized, which is what got you, you know, for

404
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:55,399
Speaker 2: those that know Malcolm story, for those that know Pak story,

405
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 2: and many more, you're already traumatized, and you move through

406
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:04,040
Speaker 2: all of that to find this power inside and then

407
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:07,200
Speaker 2: the world sees it and it makes them so uncomfortable

408
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 2: and so scared that they want to invoke even more

409
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,919
Speaker 2: trauma and violence on you. And I think that that

410
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 2: is so indicative of what happens in a lot of

411
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 2: our and a lot of our prison systems. So that

412
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 2: was one piece. Hearing you speak right now answers this

413
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 2: lifelong question I've had about Nelson Mandela. Something I have

414
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 2: always wondered is how do you do thirty years alone,

415
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 2: stripped of your dignity, stripped of your family, stripped of

416
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 2: humanity and comfort and connection, and you immediately immediately leave

417
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 2: prison and lead a country, no therapy right, no time

418
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Speaker 2: to in between, to quote unquote heal to be on

419
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 2: your journey to have your own you know, rest and nourishment.

420
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:10,640
Speaker 2: You immediately lead, and you lead from love that has

421
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 2: always just boggled my mind. And hearing you speak now

422
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 2: I understand.

423
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:17,680
Speaker 1: What the path is.

424
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:23,120
Speaker 2: It is this, It is this profound awakening inside.

425
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 3: Absolutely yeah, you know, inside of us is just these beautiful,

426
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:32,399
Speaker 3: unexplored worlds. You know, when people hear my story sometimes

427
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:36,160
Speaker 3: they're like, you know, I can't imagine myself going through

428
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 3: you what you've gone through. I mean I can't imagine

429
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:43,240
Speaker 3: either until I was there and being able to explore

430
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 3: that internal world which I found that. You know, when

431
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 3: you think about Mandela and you think about Malcolm is

432
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 3: that that was something that they both had in common,

433
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:57,639
Speaker 3: is the exploration of their own worlds and ask them questions.

434
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,880
Speaker 3: One of the things I got really into philosophy while

435
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 3: I was in solitary. I was always curious about, you know,

436
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:09,439
Speaker 3: how does the mind work? And I remember reading the

437
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:13,159
Speaker 3: Apology and Socrates said the unexamined life isn't worth living.

438
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:16,560
Speaker 3: And when I began to examine my life, I began

439
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 3: to journal and write down, like what happened to me?

440
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 3: You know, I started to ask these vario essential questions.

441
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 3: How did I go from an honor roll scholarship student

442
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,120
Speaker 3: with James of being a doctor and an artist too,

443
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:33,800
Speaker 3: serving not my most promising years in prison, And that

444
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 3: led to me just really being honest about what had happened.

445
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:40,880
Speaker 3: The level of trauma that my body has experienced and

446
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 3: that has been through it's probably unimaginable the most people,

447
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 3: the brutality of the street culture that I lived in.

448
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 3: You know, most people can't even comprehend the magnitude of

449
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,720
Speaker 3: the suffering that happens in that space because so much

450
00:28:55,760 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 3: of it is glorified. And so for me, it's that

451
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 3: internal journey that I'm always inviting people on to go on.

452
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:10,040
Speaker 3: It's like the journey of self is beautiful, it's powerful,

453
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 3: and you on earthed so many things about yourself that

454
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 3: you didn't even believe was possible. And it all ties

455
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 3: back to, you know, what you was saying earlier about

456
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 3: the traumatic way that our lives play out up until

457
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 3: the moment where people are confronted with our innate power.

458
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 3: You know, Struggle has been our Dane from birth, right

459
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 3: Like we know we know the mother's story of giving birth,

460
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 3: you know, we can you know, viscerally experience. You know,

461
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 3: a woman pushing a child out through sheer labor and

462
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 3: you know, exhausting and pain and all the things. We

463
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 3: don't know the child's story because they can't articulate it,

464
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 3: you know, other than with a cry. But when you

465
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 3: think about what that struggle is to get out of

466
00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 3: the womb, doctors pulling on your head, I must push

467
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 3: you from outside. So we come into this world through struggle,

468
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 3: I mean, even through conception. You know, there's a war

469
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 3: for sperm to reach the egg. It's not like an

470
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:14,960
Speaker 3: easy chill pathway. It's like, you know, I got to

471
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 3: get there, you know, and so that's ordained it's in us,

472
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 3: you know, to navigate adversity, to overcome obstacles, to overcome

473
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 3: barriers to entry into this thing that we call the world.

474
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 3: And so when you recognize that that is cellular, that's

475
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 3: in ourselves, it's in our DNA, and you attached to

476
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 3: that through that internal journey, and you recognize like I

477
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 3: was born through struggle, you know, and I fought to

478
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 3: be here. You know, every human being that it's on

479
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 3: this earth right now fought to be here. And I

480
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 3: think when we begin to honor that, we actually begin

481
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 3: to learn how to fight in the best interests of

482
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 3: our own health, will being, salvation, our humanity. But when

483
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 3: you take that for granted, it's easy to extinguish that.

484
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 3: And what happens is when you come up against a

485
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 3: force that is making you forcing you to confront your

486
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 3: unwillingness or inability to recognize what your humanist is, you

487
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 3: have to extinguish that flame. And so, you know what

488
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 3: Pot represented was, here's what it means to be human

489
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 3: as it exists in this world from a black male perspective,

490
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 3: and that's threatening, and that's challenging, and some of those

491
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 3: challenges existed within him. He hadn't quite reconciled, you know,

492
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 3: and so it shows up in these external ways. And

493
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 3: you know, you think about Malcolm and the person who

494
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:49,560
Speaker 3: pulled that trigger. What did Malcolm represent, you know, to

495
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 3: that person when it comes to having to extinguish that

496
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 3: beautiful humanity, that complex humanity that challenged us to think

497
00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 3: differently and to fight for our human rights, which is

498
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 3: just basic dignity, you know, the things we're still fighting

499
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 3: for today and we're figuring out today, and you know,

500
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 3: sadly we're still confronted with people who want to extinguish

501
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 3: that that that flame. You know, they do it in

502
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 3: a very much more sophisticated way now. But you know,

503
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 3: my my push is for as humans, if we start

504
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 3: to collectively go inward and recognize our connectivity to every

505
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 3: human being that we encounter, like, we can win the war.

506
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 3: You know, we're losing battles right now, but we can

507
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 3: win a war, you know, but we have to be

508
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 3: willing to acknowledge and reconcile that, you know, this journey

509
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 3: was ordained for us.

510
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 5: M H.

511
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, I was talking recently with a new friend,

512
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 2: doctor Tobias Escher, who's based in Germany and he does.

513
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 2: He's a neuse scientist. He does a lot of studies

514
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 2: on the brain and on trauma, and he just got

515
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:09,479
Speaker 2: funding for this new study where they are proving a

516
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 2: genetic response that there is a certain demographic, certain percentage

517
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 2: of people who have had complex trauma where the opposite

518
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 2: effect happens on them, where their body is actually actually

519
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 2: like catalyzes into this almost superhero like experience where you

520
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 2: actually have so much more energy to accomplish, Your brain

521
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 2: works faster, you're able to have these breakthrough thoughts, You're

522
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 2: able to accomplish this kind of highly varied and expansive life,

523
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:52,479
Speaker 2: doing a lot of different kinds of things. And of

524
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 2: course you know on the other side of that, you

525
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 2: have a trauma that can really keep you stuck and

526
00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 2: maybe completely repress all the innate gifts and powers that

527
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:04,880
Speaker 2: exist inside of you. But there is this response that

528
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:09,399
Speaker 2: some people have where it almost turns you into superhuman

529
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:13,960
Speaker 2: and you are able to accomplish feats that the average

530
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 2: person could and the person that has the most privileged

531
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:22,839
Speaker 2: background or family experience could just absolutely never have. That's

532
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 2: what I hear in your story, and I think it's

533
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 2: so incredible that we're even having advancements where we can

534
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 2: study the brain in that way, because I think there's

535
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 2: many of us that feel that way, that have certain

536
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:37,279
Speaker 2: kind of experiences that should utterly crush you, Like it

537
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:40,480
Speaker 2: doesn't make sense to not only keep going, but to

538
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 2: keep going with a level of peace or poise or

539
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:50,440
Speaker 2: joy or groundedness, you know, But that is a possibility

540
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 2: with the kind of acceptance of what is present, but

541
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 2: the openness to expand in other ways even if your

542
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:04,919
Speaker 2: physical reality. He doesn't. I'm a meditation teacher. I'm curious

543
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:09,880
Speaker 2: what were some of your most powerful experiences with meditation.

544
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:13,359
Speaker 2: How did that feel even when you got started, and

545
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:15,359
Speaker 2: where does it take you? And do you still do it?

546
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,760
Speaker 3: Yeah? No, absolutely, I still meditate. You know. I remember

547
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 3: when I first encountered the word meditation. I wasn't quite

548
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 3: sure what it really meant. And I was reading a

549
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 3: random pamphlet insolitary. This was the first time I was

550
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 3: in solitary, and you know, I would read anything I

551
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:36,719
Speaker 3: can get my hands on, and I remember it offered

552
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 3: it's a very what seems like a simple practice of

553
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:45,720
Speaker 3: just like five second inhales, five second exels, free your mind,

554
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:50,640
Speaker 3: release the energy, and my mind went bonkers. I mean,

555
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 3: every horrible traumatic experience came up, you know, all the

556
00:35:56,719 --> 00:36:00,040
Speaker 3: things that I was responsible for, all the things that

557
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 3: happened to me, you know, and then it was interspersed

558
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:06,400
Speaker 3: with imaginations of dreams, and I was like, Yo, this

559
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 3: is it's almost like that ticker tape at the bottom

560
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:12,840
Speaker 3: of like an ESPN screen where it's like NonStop information,

561
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:16,239
Speaker 3: and you know, so early on it was frightening, you know.

562
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:20,920
Speaker 3: But what I didn't realize was that I was getting

563
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 3: an opportunity to know myself and to appreciate myself and

564
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:29,880
Speaker 3: to value like the space that I hold on the earth,

565
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:33,239
Speaker 3: you know. And it began to become a thing that

566
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:36,400
Speaker 3: I kind of came back to, like it wasn't you know.

567
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 3: My life was not like one of those just kind

568
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:43,960
Speaker 3: of come to Jesus moments that people often imagine for

569
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 3: someone who was incarcerated. It is a series of things,

570
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:48,919
Speaker 3: you know. It was a series of trying and trying

571
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:53,800
Speaker 3: to figure it out. And what was for me that

572
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:57,320
Speaker 3: helped is I was willing to go on the journey

573
00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 3: to understand me, and I was willing to fight through

574
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 3: the discomfort of confronting ugly things about my life, you know,

575
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:11,840
Speaker 3: and when I think about, you know, your earlier point

576
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:16,280
Speaker 3: of this resiliency and this kind of superhuman way of being,

577
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 3: I know it's a response to like I've seen the

578
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:26,960
Speaker 3: worst of it. I've seen the worst of it, and

579
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 3: if you can get through the moment, I believe this

580
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:31,279
Speaker 3: is what I learned through my meditation, is this is

581
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:34,719
Speaker 3: one jewel that I live by. If you can get

582
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 3: through the pain of the moment, you can come out

583
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:40,399
Speaker 3: on the other side of anything. And I know that

584
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 3: to be true. You know, solitary confinement was extremely brutal.

585
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 3: When I went to prison, there was nothing that I

586
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:57,360
Speaker 3: feared in terms of physical safety. I had been shot,

587
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 3: I had shot people, I had done bullets. I have

588
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 3: had people dug bullets. So I had been through all

589
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:06,839
Speaker 3: the trauma. I've been beat and jumped and robbed, and

590
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:09,839
Speaker 3: you know, all the traumas that you know comes with

591
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:13,839
Speaker 3: the suffering on the streets. So I wasn't afraid, you know,

592
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 3: going in. I wasn't afraid for my physical safety. I

593
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:19,400
Speaker 3: grew up with older brothers, grew up fighting, you know,

594
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:21,840
Speaker 3: from the east side of the trade. It's like fighting

595
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 3: is a right to pass. So I know how to

596
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:25,080
Speaker 3: take care of myself. So I wasn't afraid of that.

597
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 3: The horror of what I witnessed in solitary confinement was

598
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:33,520
Speaker 3: the one thing that I was afraid of, is that

599
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 3: this environment would claim my mind. One horrific event I

600
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 3: talked about it in the book is when this man

601
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:42,920
Speaker 3: set himself on fire.

602
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:43,880
Speaker 1: Oh my God.

603
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:47,800
Speaker 3: And he did it as a result of being bullied

604
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 3: by the officers. So these officers would harassed them about

605
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 3: his sexuality, and he set himself on fire and sail.

606
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:58,480
Speaker 3: And what I remember most about it is one of

607
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:02,560
Speaker 3: the most haunting things I've ever experience, is that he

608
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:06,800
Speaker 3: began to do what I believe, I'm not sure that

609
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:12,000
Speaker 3: I couldn't translate was a prayer. They had the cadence

610
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 3: and the rhythm of a calling out to a higher

611
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 3: being in Spanish. And then he set himself on fire.

612
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 3: And you know, I remember just sitting with that. You know,

613
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:25,200
Speaker 3: they took him out of the cell, put him in

614
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 3: a suicide watchsal and they brought him right back, like

615
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:31,040
Speaker 3: literally within twenty four hours, and he set himself on

616
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 3: fire again. And then they eventually took him somewhere else,

617
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 3: and I remember just sitting with the thought of like

618
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:45,279
Speaker 3: when will my time come? When will my breaking point come?

619
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 3: There were people around me who were what we call cutters,

620
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 3: which meant that they would take anything that they could

621
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:59,279
Speaker 3: to you know, cut their bodies and you know, or

622
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:02,239
Speaker 3: cause harms themselves. You know, one man, he swallowed the

623
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:06,320
Speaker 3: battery and you know, one man cut his This is

624
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:09,319
Speaker 3: like graphic, but he literally took a staple and cut

625
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 3: his geniteilia up. And so this was every day, every day,

626
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:19,840
Speaker 3: every day, and the officer's response to it would be

627
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:22,520
Speaker 3: to come with what we call the goon squad or

628
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:26,319
Speaker 3: their extraction team, and they would basically come in with

629
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 3: shields and pepper spray, pepper spray the person, come in,

630
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:33,239
Speaker 3: wrestle them down. And then these bunks that we had,

631
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 3: they had these these circular pieces of steel that they

632
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:43,160
Speaker 3: could loop the things that they tie us down to

633
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 3: the bed ind And so that was day. That was

634
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:51,399
Speaker 3: every day, every day. You're waiting on the moment when

635
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 3: you've reached your own threshold. And so that was the

636
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:57,719
Speaker 3: only thing I was ever afraid of is that when

637
00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:00,920
Speaker 3: I reached that moment, you know, and eventually I got

638
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:02,359
Speaker 3: to a space where I knew I would never reach

639
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 3: that moment. The space, the space I told you about earlier,

640
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:07,400
Speaker 3: but that's the only thing I have a fear, was

641
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:11,719
Speaker 3: like I would lose my mind in there, and I

642
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:15,719
Speaker 3: wouldn't be a human when I came, you know. And

643
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:20,840
Speaker 3: I've watched men leave there that were broken, and men

644
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:26,359
Speaker 3: that leave there who are scary human beings because they've

645
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 3: been so damaged. And you know, and I would think

646
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:33,319
Speaker 3: to myself, like, would be okay with this person living

647
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 3: next door to my loved ones in this condition? And

648
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:40,400
Speaker 3: so the interesting thing for me is that we are

649
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:44,480
Speaker 3: called to accountability. You know, if you serve time in prison,

650
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:47,360
Speaker 3: when you get out, you have to be accountable. People

651
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:52,160
Speaker 3: want you to make it right with your community. They

652
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:54,200
Speaker 3: want you to tow the line. They want you to

653
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:59,359
Speaker 3: follow all the rules. And our responsibility is extreme. You're

654
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 3: own parole, you're not quite out of prison. For all,

655
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:04,239
Speaker 3: agents come to your door whenever they want to. They

656
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 3: come into your home. They search for weapons, they say,

657
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:11,319
Speaker 3: search for things that are legal. You know, you go

658
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:14,920
Speaker 3: through all these things, and whatever people's belief about that is,

659
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:16,960
Speaker 3: you know, it's fine, Okay. We need to be a

660
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:19,720
Speaker 3: little more responsible, We need to be monitored more Okay,

661
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:25,080
Speaker 3: got it. What is society's responsibility? What is the system's responsibility?

662
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:29,279
Speaker 3: What is the system's responsibility to the community. If you

663
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:34,520
Speaker 3: are destraying human beings and there's no culpability, there's no responsibility,

664
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 3: there's no accountability. That is problematic, and like that is

665
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:42,440
Speaker 3: something that we have to address and I try to

666
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:45,520
Speaker 3: address in my work by having these conversations.

667
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:56,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, deeply. Wow.

668
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:02,240
Speaker 2: The first thing that I thought of when you said,

669
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 2: you know, make it right with the community, is like,

670
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:09,520
Speaker 2: that's such a challenging thing to reconcile within your own body,

671
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:13,000
Speaker 2: depending on your experiences, because if your community never made

672
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 2: it right with you, your community failed you, and that's

673
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:19,440
Speaker 2: part of how you became the person that entered the

674
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:26,919
Speaker 2: prison system. It's like, where societally do we expect all

675
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:30,600
Speaker 2: of this knowing and all of this work to come from?

676
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:33,680
Speaker 2: You know, for most people, like, how do we have

677
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 2: this expectation? What experiences is anyone having in prison that

678
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 2: would lend itself to them being able to now have

679
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:45,360
Speaker 2: this emotional depth and capacity when they re enter the world.

680
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:50,360
Speaker 3: It's absurd, it is it is absurd, and it's obnoxious.

681
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:54,200
Speaker 3: You think about the average reading level in prison's third grade.

682
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:58,399
Speaker 3: When you think about the level of trauma without any

683
00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:02,400
Speaker 3: therapeutic healing, yes, is non existent.

684
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 2: Without even you know, when we think about how sensitive

685
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:11,080
Speaker 2: our nervous systems are, right, and we're now finally beginning

686
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:15,160
Speaker 2: to really unpack that collectively. And you are in a

687
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:18,400
Speaker 2: system like a prison, right where you are not getting

688
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:22,560
Speaker 2: adequate access to fresh air, You're not getting adequate humane

689
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:27,200
Speaker 2: access to sun, right to being anywhere in the world.

690
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:31,719
Speaker 2: You do not have a bed, a real bed, right,

691
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 2: and you are forced to be in situations that really

692
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 2: press against your dignity and your safety in so many ways.

693
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:48,400
Speaker 2: You have fluorescent lighting everywhere right there, cinderblocks, concrete steel,

694
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:54,000
Speaker 2: these are all things that make you completely disassociate from

695
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:58,480
Speaker 2: your physical body. There is not a way to really

696
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:02,480
Speaker 2: heal and grow yourself in that space in any capacity.

697
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:03,880
Speaker 2: You are coming out worse.

698
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, when you and when you when you talk about

699
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:10,400
Speaker 3: the physical body, you know, those are just the environmental

700
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:13,799
Speaker 3: things we don't even think about. You know, you're going

701
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:16,680
Speaker 3: to visit, You get strip search every time you go

702
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:20,839
Speaker 3: on to visit. So just the indignity of that repetitive

703
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:24,359
Speaker 3: reality in order to go and spend time with your

704
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:26,400
Speaker 3: loved ones, and then to try to come back and

705
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 3: carry those memories is immediately disrupted by a strip search.

706
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:36,080
Speaker 3: There's no agency over your physical being. You don't own

707
00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:40,200
Speaker 3: your body, you know. I remember getting a tattoo and

708
00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:43,120
Speaker 3: going getting taken the solitary. I got caught getting a tattoo,

709
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:46,480
Speaker 3: and so I was written a misconduct about my physical

710
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:49,560
Speaker 3: body and what I could or could not do to it.

711
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:54,759
Speaker 3: You know, health care was deplorable. You know, I went

712
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:58,000
Speaker 3: I had like a back injury from like lifting weights

713
00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:02,680
Speaker 3: in prison, and I didn't see a chiropractor until I

714
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:05,840
Speaker 3: got out of prison. And when you're talking about nervous

715
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:08,520
Speaker 3: system and made me think about that first experience I

716
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:13,839
Speaker 3: went to the chiropractor. I remember going into the room

717
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:16,960
Speaker 3: where they do the X rays and like it was

718
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:19,319
Speaker 3: such a foreign experience to me that I was like,

719
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:22,759
Speaker 3: miss I miss heard the information. But the lady was like,

720
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:25,960
Speaker 3: you know, I just remember her pointing me like like

721
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:28,960
Speaker 3: get up there. I clammed on top of a file cap,

722
00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:32,480
Speaker 3: and I love about it because it's like so ridiculous.

723
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:34,279
Speaker 3: I was literally sitting up on top of a foul

724
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:36,759
Speaker 3: cabinet when a lady came in and she was like,

725
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:38,600
Speaker 3: why are you sitting up there? I was like, I

726
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 3: thought you stant me to get up there. She's like no,

727
00:46:40,719 --> 00:46:42,719
Speaker 3: she's like to put your stuff right there, you know.

728
00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:45,880
Speaker 3: And it was the most REDICUTI I mean, it was

729
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:48,560
Speaker 3: like a clod cap And I was like, these people

730
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:50,359
Speaker 3: are so bizarre. Why does she have to me like

731
00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:53,160
Speaker 3: clambing on this chair, getting up on this floul cabinet.

732
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:56,560
Speaker 3: And it was just the reality of not even having

733
00:46:56,600 --> 00:47:00,680
Speaker 3: the human experience of just going to have a regular

734
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:04,680
Speaker 3: doctor's visit and to figure out, you know, all the things. So,

735
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:09,160
Speaker 3: you know, the environmental factors people don't consider is that

736
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 3: And this is part of our society, right We're we're

737
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:16,400
Speaker 3: very punitive, you know, when someone does something that we

738
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 3: don't like, we're punitive. We're like, counsel that person, lock

739
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:23,359
Speaker 3: them up, throw away the key. If there's a brutality

740
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:25,839
Speaker 3: that exists in us as human beings that we don't

741
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:28,520
Speaker 3: really acknowledge, like you know, part of it is like

742
00:47:28,719 --> 00:47:31,120
Speaker 3: we still operate out of our reptilian brain a lot

743
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:34,040
Speaker 3: when it comes to other people who have offended or

744
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 3: hurt us, or disagree with us for that matter. But

745
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:40,640
Speaker 3: what people don't think about is over ninety percent of

746
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:43,600
Speaker 3: people who are incarcerated will at some point come home,

747
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:47,480
Speaker 3: and we have a collective responsibility in how they come home.

748
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:50,439
Speaker 3: You know. I talk to my friends all the time

749
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:54,879
Speaker 3: about the nature of watching people go in and out,

750
00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:57,239
Speaker 3: and people are like, that's so stupid. It's like, why

751
00:47:57,280 --> 00:47:59,680
Speaker 3: would this person get out after all those years and

752
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:03,360
Speaker 3: go back at How was this person taught the to function?

753
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 3: Like I had to learn things and relationships, Like, you know,

754
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:08,840
Speaker 3: I went into prison when I was nineteen. I was

755
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:12,040
Speaker 3: a kid. I never had an adult relationship. I didn't

756
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:16,120
Speaker 3: have conflict resolution skills. I didn't know, like, oh, an

757
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:21,000
Speaker 3: argument doesn't mean finality, because in prison it definitely means that.

758
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:26,440
Speaker 3: It means, if not finality, it means that an argument

759
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:30,040
Speaker 3: escalates the high levels of violence. What do you do

760
00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:31,520
Speaker 3: with that when you come home and you get into

761
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:35,080
Speaker 3: a conflict with somebody who aren't even thinking about violence,

762
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:37,800
Speaker 3: But this is your only way of being for decades,

763
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:43,080
Speaker 3: And so I'm like, I remember getting to arguments with

764
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:45,600
Speaker 3: my son's mom when we were together, and I'm like,

765
00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:49,120
Speaker 3: I can't shank this, lady. It's not the way that

766
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:53,640
Speaker 3: you resolve conflict. But I had never saw an argument

767
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:57,440
Speaker 3: that did not end in violence enough for like living

768
00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:00,600
Speaker 3: to twenty plus years, right, So there was no you know,

769
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:02,520
Speaker 3: the only repair was who was going to leave the

770
00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:07,200
Speaker 3: sale block, you know, voluntary or through brute force. And

771
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:09,880
Speaker 3: so when you grow up in that and then you

772
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:13,120
Speaker 3: come home and you're expected to just act civilly and

773
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:16,759
Speaker 3: we're not putting the things in place to ensure that

774
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:19,719
Speaker 3: people are coming home healthy and whole. To me, that's

775
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:22,880
Speaker 3: more criminal than whatever led them down that path in

776
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:23,560
Speaker 3: the first place.

777
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:30,400
Speaker 2: Yes, Shaka, I would like to talk to you as

778
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:35,840
Speaker 2: sadly I get to the close of this episode. I

779
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:37,920
Speaker 2: wish we had a couple more hours. There's a lot,

780
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:44,440
Speaker 2: so much more. But when you got out, talk to

781
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:49,880
Speaker 2: me about how you started your journey of cultivating joy.

782
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:56,040
Speaker 2: How did you start? Because another thing that I've just

783
00:49:56,200 --> 00:50:01,239
Speaker 2: really deeply connected with that you've said is freedom to

784
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:06,440
Speaker 2: me is gratitude. Freedom is dancing for no reason at all,

785
00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:10,560
Speaker 2: it's laughing late into the night. But the greatest expression

786
00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:13,520
Speaker 2: of freedom to me now is the ability to emote

787
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:17,480
Speaker 2: and cry. Freedom is trusting that the moment you're in

788
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:23,000
Speaker 2: is divine. That's what I choose to believe. This statement

789
00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:28,160
Speaker 2: is from a man that has accessed deep joy, an

790
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:34,000
Speaker 2: inner fire, an inner reservoir of innate goodness. How did

791
00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:37,799
Speaker 2: you start to court joy in your life and bring

792
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:38,280
Speaker 2: it in.

793
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:41,800
Speaker 3: That's a great question. You know. It took me seventeen

794
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:49,120
Speaker 3: years before I cried. I was incarcera concracerated, and I

795
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:52,680
Speaker 3: was in a visiting room when it happened. And the

796
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:56,160
Speaker 3: friend who came to saw me see panics. It's like,

797
00:50:56,400 --> 00:50:58,240
Speaker 3: you know, are you going to be in danger because

798
00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:03,800
Speaker 3: you cry? And I laughed so hard at her panic,

799
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:07,000
Speaker 3: you know, because I was so happy that I had

800
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:13,359
Speaker 3: read gained ability to be a full emotional human being

801
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:18,280
Speaker 3: in terms of joy, you know, getting out of prison.

802
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:21,560
Speaker 3: Early on, my joy was just in the hustle of

803
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:24,320
Speaker 3: selling books out of the trunk of my car and

804
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:27,200
Speaker 3: seeing that smile on people's face after they've heard my

805
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:30,120
Speaker 3: story and I've sold them a book, and them following

806
00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:31,640
Speaker 3: up and being like, yo, I read your book. Had

807
00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:34,960
Speaker 3: me up all night because you know, I love the hustle.

808
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:37,040
Speaker 3: You know that that that there there was some goods

809
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:39,759
Speaker 3: that you learned from hustling in the streets. And I

810
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:42,319
Speaker 3: love that, you know, I love that energy of just

811
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:46,440
Speaker 3: like pursuing a dream and a vision and then it

812
00:51:46,560 --> 00:51:50,040
Speaker 3: was just like friends. You know, I have friends that

813
00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:53,680
Speaker 3: I can laugh deeply with and richly with and you

814
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:56,240
Speaker 3: know the experience I have. I have a wild family.

815
00:51:56,320 --> 00:51:58,920
Speaker 3: My family is just like you know, I have this

816
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:01,640
Speaker 3: A total was a total nine of us. My younger

817
00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:05,120
Speaker 3: brother was murdered, you know, two years ago. My younger brother,

818
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:09,879
Speaker 3: Sharad was murdered in July twenty one. So there's eight

819
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:10,759
Speaker 3: of us siblings.

820
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:10,960
Speaker 5: You know.

821
00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:14,239
Speaker 3: Then we have cousins who we kind of function like

822
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:15,919
Speaker 3: siblings because all of us are like in the same

823
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:19,640
Speaker 3: age range. And my family is hilarious. This is non

824
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:22,360
Speaker 3: stop hilarity, Like as soon as you walk in, somebody's

825
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:25,560
Speaker 3: cracking jokes or you know, somebody's telling a funny story.

826
00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:29,680
Speaker 3: And so my deepest joy is in connection to people

827
00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:33,360
Speaker 3: and then just being in my purpose. Like when I'm writing,

828
00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:37,520
Speaker 3: I'm in a whole other flow state. You know, it's

829
00:52:37,560 --> 00:52:43,120
Speaker 3: my It's probably one of my greatest, you know, ways

830
00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:48,240
Speaker 3: of really experiencing personal joy is like writing. I love music.

831
00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:50,560
Speaker 3: I'm a I'm a big, big music fan. I love

832
00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:54,680
Speaker 3: the artistic process. So just studying how other people create

833
00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:59,560
Speaker 3: art and it's you know, it's so great, and I

834
00:52:59,600 --> 00:53:05,319
Speaker 3: wish other men would lean into the idea that, you know,

835
00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:08,399
Speaker 3: life doesn't have to be solely about all the things

836
00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:12,720
Speaker 3: you're responsible for, you know, if you can pay attention

837
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:17,160
Speaker 3: to children, like children have so much fun, you know,

838
00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:20,279
Speaker 3: doing nothing like making turning the tearing a box up

839
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:23,120
Speaker 3: and turning them into a thing. And I love that. So,

840
00:53:23,520 --> 00:53:25,520
Speaker 3: you know, a lot of my joy isn't being a dad,

841
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:29,360
Speaker 3: you know, and really being present with my son and

842
00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:32,840
Speaker 3: all the iterations of where he's at in life and

843
00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:35,560
Speaker 3: mentoring you know. You know, I get to meet these cool,

844
00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:40,560
Speaker 3: funny you know, high school kids and college students who

845
00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:45,120
Speaker 3: are just like on this you know, unmarred journey of

846
00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:48,040
Speaker 3: like we want to change the world, you know. So

847
00:53:48,120 --> 00:53:50,600
Speaker 3: to me, joy is found and pretty much all the

848
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:53,000
Speaker 3: things I do. You know, sometimes it's simple as just

849
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:56,359
Speaker 3: taking a drive and riding with my music really loud,

850
00:53:56,360 --> 00:53:58,799
Speaker 3: because I'm you know, I still got that element of

851
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:03,840
Speaker 3: myself that's like I'm so hood, but you know, I

852
00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:07,200
Speaker 3: just try to find it in deep conversations and being

853
00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:11,560
Speaker 3: intentional about creating space for that. And you know, and

854
00:54:11,600 --> 00:54:15,280
Speaker 3: I'm and and I'm still getting to this next level

855
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:17,719
Speaker 3: of it you know, it's like I'm I'm a workaholic.

856
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:21,400
Speaker 3: I'm all my mind is always just kind of ignited

857
00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:23,760
Speaker 3: with like what am I building? What am I doing?

858
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:25,960
Speaker 3: And so you know, I've learned to give myself some

859
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:28,360
Speaker 3: grace and and really just take the time out to

860
00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:32,280
Speaker 3: like find joy in doing nothing. It's like, it's actually

861
00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:34,719
Speaker 3: really dope. You know. I love when I don't you know,

862
00:54:35,080 --> 00:54:37,239
Speaker 3: when I could sit at home with jogging pants and

863
00:54:37,080 --> 00:54:40,360
Speaker 3: a hoodie on and that's it. I don't have to

864
00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:44,759
Speaker 3: go anywhere. I'm so excited. I'm so joyful. So I

865
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:46,279
Speaker 3: find it in a lot of things.

866
00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:51,000
Speaker 2: Oh, thank you, thank you. As we close out this episode,

867
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:53,520
Speaker 2: at the end of every show, I offer our community

868
00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:57,759
Speaker 2: what's called soul work. So very often that is a practice,

869
00:54:58,440 --> 00:55:01,200
Speaker 2: some kind of a devotional mindfulness practice, or it's an

870
00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:05,960
Speaker 2: inquiry of thought to kind of savor after this episode

871
00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:08,800
Speaker 2: ends to apply to our own lives to think about.

872
00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:11,640
Speaker 2: So I would love to ask if you have any

873
00:55:11,680 --> 00:55:13,080
Speaker 2: soul work you'd like to share.

874
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:17,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is what I would love for this community

875
00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:22,560
Speaker 3: to do. It's just take a moment and recognize the

876
00:55:22,719 --> 00:55:24,719
Speaker 3: very moment that you're in, the very moment that you're

877
00:55:24,760 --> 00:55:30,040
Speaker 3: hearing my voice is a sacred and divine moment, and

878
00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:33,600
Speaker 3: lean into that with a spirit of gratitude that we're

879
00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:38,560
Speaker 3: fortunate and that we are blessed to have the sensibilities

880
00:55:38,920 --> 00:55:43,200
Speaker 3: in the physical presence and the spiritual presence, and the

881
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:47,480
Speaker 3: heart to fill all the things, to be present with

882
00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:51,879
Speaker 3: all the things, and to really just lean into we're

883
00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:54,160
Speaker 3: only here in the moment that we're actually.

884
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:57,080
Speaker 1: Here, beautiful.

885
00:55:57,560 --> 00:56:00,880
Speaker 2: Thank you so much everything saying. All the ways to

886
00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:04,200
Speaker 2: connects to Shaka his Instagram, his website, and both of

887
00:56:04,239 --> 00:56:06,480
Speaker 2: his books will be in the body of the summary

888
00:56:06,520 --> 00:56:09,560
Speaker 2: of this show. So if you're an Apple, you scroll down, Spotify,

889
00:56:09,600 --> 00:56:12,279
Speaker 2: same thing, click through, you'll be able to connect in

890
00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:14,239
Speaker 2: all the ways. And I want to bring to the

891
00:56:14,239 --> 00:56:18,320
Speaker 2: forefront again. Shaka's latest book is Letters to the Sons

892
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:23,040
Speaker 2: of Society, a father's Invitation to Love, honesty and Freedom.

893
00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:26,760
Speaker 2: It's available now, please go get it. And his first book,

894
00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:32,160
Speaker 2: Writing My Wrongs, Life, Death, and Redeption in an American Prison.

895
00:56:34,560 --> 00:56:37,719
Speaker 2: Pick those up, sit with them, be with them, start

896
00:56:37,719 --> 00:56:41,400
Speaker 2: your meditation practice, everybody. I'm always going to say that Shaka,

897
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:44,000
Speaker 2: thank you so much for joining. And I just hope

898
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:45,840
Speaker 2: that I have the privilege and the pleasure to be

899
00:56:45,880 --> 00:56:49,680
Speaker 2: in conversation with you again. I am so grateful for

900
00:56:49,800 --> 00:56:51,880
Speaker 2: all of the ways that you've shared on the show,

901
00:56:52,040 --> 00:56:56,400
Speaker 2: for everything you have chosen to transcend into in your

902
00:56:56,520 --> 00:56:58,759
Speaker 2: life and the way that you share that with all

903
00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:01,640
Speaker 2: of us through your work. Thank you, Thank you so

904
00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:05,040
Speaker 2: much for having me truly ya Ahma and I mist stay.

905
00:57:10,760 --> 00:57:14,560
Speaker 2: The content presented on Deeply Wells serves solely for educational

906
00:57:14,640 --> 00:57:18,360
Speaker 2: and informational purposes. It should not be considered a replacement

907
00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:22,480
Speaker 2: for personalized medical or mental health guidance, and does not

908
00:57:22,640 --> 00:57:27,560
Speaker 2: constitute a provider patient relationship. As always, it is advisable

909
00:57:27,600 --> 00:57:31,000
Speaker 2: to consult with your healthcare provider or health team for

910
00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:36,160
Speaker 2: any specific concerns or questions that you may have. Connect

911
00:57:36,160 --> 00:57:40,120
Speaker 2: with me on social at Debbie Brown. That's Twitter and Instagram,

912
00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:43,280
Speaker 2: or you can go to my website Debbie Brown dot com.

913
00:57:43,320 --> 00:57:45,960
Speaker 2: And if you're listening to the show on Apple Podcasts,

914
00:57:46,040 --> 00:57:50,320
Speaker 2: don't forget. Please rate, review, and subscribe and send this

915
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:53,360
Speaker 2: episode to a friend. Deeply Well is a production of

916
00:57:53,400 --> 00:57:57,680
Speaker 2: iHeartRadio and The Black Effect Network. It's produced by Jacquess Thomas,

917
00:57:57,880 --> 00:58:02,840
Speaker 2: Samantha Timmins, and me Debbie Brown, The Beautiful Soundbath You Heard.

918
00:58:03,360 --> 00:58:08,160
Speaker 2: That's by Jarrelyn Glass from Crystal Cadence. For more podcasts

919
00:58:08,160 --> 00:58:12,400
Speaker 2: from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, or wherever you listen

920
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:13,800
Speaker 2: to your favorite shows.