Speaker 1: Welcome to Tech Stuff, a production from I Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host,
Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with I Heart Radio
Speaker 1: and how the Tech area. It is time for a
Speaker 1: classic episode. This episode is called the Mog or Moog Story,
Speaker 1: Part one, about you know, the Moog or moge synthesizer.
Speaker 1: I've heard it pronounced both ways. I've been led to
Speaker 1: understand that mog is more correct, but I'm sure I'm
Speaker 1: always going to get it wrong. Uh. This episode actually
Speaker 1: is a little bitter sweet for me because last year
Speaker 1: in late twenty two, Herbert Deutsch, one of the co
Speaker 1: creators of the Mog synthesizer, died at the ripe old
Speaker 1: age of ninety. So, yeah, this is a story about
Speaker 1: that synthesizer's genesis and evolution. And as I said, it's
Speaker 1: part one, so we know what we're getting next week
Speaker 1: on Friday. But sit back and enjoy this classic episode
Speaker 1: from February third. So yeah, we're gonna talk about mog synthesizers.
Speaker 1: And when I brought this up, I gave Joe a
Speaker 1: list of potential topics. These were all ones that were
Speaker 1: suggested by by listeners. So thank you guys for sending
Speaker 1: in your suggestions. That's awesome. I really appreciate it. And
Speaker 1: Mog synthesizers are kind of amazingly cool, Jonathan, they are
Speaker 1: not cool, they are cool. Okay, that's fair. Yeah. For
Speaker 1: the longest time, I thought it was Moog. I thought
Speaker 1: it was Moog too. And when I told my wife
Speaker 1: Rachel that I was going to be recording an episode
Speaker 1: with you on on Mog, she was like, what's that
Speaker 1: And she was like, is it not Moog? And I
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, I used to think the same thing.
Speaker 1: But apparently we're just all super ignorant because MOG is
Speaker 1: not an acronym for something. Doesn't stand for massive open
Speaker 1: online gorillas or modular organic oh led garage. I don't know. No,
Speaker 1: it doesn't stand for anything. It's it's a person's last
Speaker 1: name rights the last name of old Bob Moog, who
Speaker 1: not Moog Bob move. It's a hard habit to break, dude. No.
Speaker 1: I remember I did a podcast with Chris Palette years
Speaker 1: and years and years ago, and I think I said
Speaker 1: Moog synthesizer and that, and I was get some angry,
Speaker 1: angry letters. I was. I was thrashed about the neck
Speaker 1: and wrists with a with a ruler, which Chris kept
Speaker 1: on him. Chris, Yeah, I mean, well, he's a percussionist
Speaker 1: for one, and you know he's been in bands. You know,
Speaker 1: he opened for he opened for for Indigo Girls. I mean,
Speaker 1: he's like, we're talking serious musician here, um, And I'm
Speaker 1: only slightly ripping him because that's all true. But no,
Speaker 1: he he was very kind actually to point out my paw. Now, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't remember many Indigo Girls songs being big on
Speaker 1: the Moges. No. I was just using that as a
Speaker 1: way of establishing Chris is uh musical chops in the
Speaker 1: sense that he was an established musician, not so much
Speaker 1: to specifically put him in a mog camp. I would
Speaker 1: like to attend Mogue camp. I bet it would be fun.
Speaker 1: But we wanted to start off before we get into
Speaker 1: the nitty gritty of mog We wanted to talk a
Speaker 1: little bit about electronic music, because part of the story
Speaker 1: is how electronic music wasn't always an acceptable musical format
Speaker 1: to the general public, but of course now it's it's
Speaker 1: an incredibly huge, uh genre of music. Well, despite being
Speaker 1: really popular among some people. I mean there are lots
Speaker 1: of people who love electronic music and that's their favorite
Speaker 1: genre of music. There is still sometimes you'll see a
Speaker 1: kind of I don't know what you call it, a
Speaker 1: kind of acoustic elitism snobbery that that isn't so much
Speaker 1: at electronic music itself, though you do encounter that a
Speaker 1: little bit, like like explicitly electronic music, but a lot
Speaker 1: of times I see it at music that is that
Speaker 1: uses electronically generated tones in conjunction with traditional arrangements and instruments,
Speaker 1: so like pop songs that have synthesizers in them. Is
Speaker 1: that there are like snobby, elitist opinions against that, and
Speaker 1: I wonder why that is. I mean, I know there
Speaker 1: is there's sort of a general idea that electronically generated
Speaker 1: tones are fake, which is, you know, they're like it's
Speaker 1: almost like they're not real sound. Yeah, when you get
Speaker 1: down to it, when you really peel away all the
Speaker 1: layers of this onion, you realize how ludicrous an argument
Speaker 1: that is. Because a musical instrument is a construct we
Speaker 1: use to generate sound. It it doesn't necessarily have any
Speaker 1: electronic components to it, but it's still a tool that
Speaker 1: we're using to create these musical notes, like there's nothing natural.
Speaker 1: You don't go to the violin tree and pluck a
Speaker 1: violin off the viol injury, right, I mean, these are
Speaker 1: all tools and well, it's sure, but my wardrobe broke
Speaker 1: down like three years ago, so I'm not going to
Speaker 1: go to the old school violin maker who makes fake violin. Yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: Like you should be arguing like, well, you're not singing,
Speaker 1: so you're just doing You're just faking it, Like unless
Speaker 1: you're using the human voice and tapping upon your own
Speaker 1: barrel chest for percussion, you, sir, are not a musician. Well,
Speaker 1: this is a concept we're gonna have to revisit throughout
Speaker 1: the episode today because I think it is a central
Speaker 1: theme of the career of Robert mog But I thought
Speaker 1: it would be good to start just by asking you,
Speaker 1: what is some of your favorite electronic music. You don't
Speaker 1: have to be moge centric here because that might be
Speaker 1: kind of limiting. If if I just say, played on
Speaker 1: a mogue right with electronically generated tones, what do you like? Okay,
Speaker 1: So I'm just gonna run through these pretty quickly because
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously we could we could have an entire
Speaker 1: podcast dedicated to music effect. We used to have a
Speaker 1: music oriented podcast from How Stuff Works. Haven't done it
Speaker 1: in ages. It was stuff from the B sides. I
Speaker 1: would love to see that come back sometime. But here's
Speaker 1: some First of all, have to mention daft punk obviously,
Speaker 1: like that's like the kind of clear front runner of
Speaker 1: electronic music as far as mainstream awareness is concerned, outside
Speaker 1: of just the electronica fans, who are of course their
Speaker 1: knowledge runs far more deep than mine. Um. I could
Speaker 1: also just lump in pretty much any band that was
Speaker 1: part of the new wave movement, because new wave was
Speaker 1: very electronic heavy and in certain parts of that uh
Speaker 1: that movement. Yes, the the the post punk new wave movement.
Speaker 1: I love that that genre of music as well. UM,
Speaker 1: the soundtracks the original Tron movie, I love it. I
Speaker 1: also like Tron Legacy, which again goes back to daft punk.
Speaker 1: But I love the soundtrack to the original Tron movie
Speaker 1: Fight for the Users. Yes, and that was scored by
Speaker 1: Wendy Carlos, and Wendy Carlos is very important in the
Speaker 1: history of mog because Wendy Carlos also did an album
Speaker 1: called Switched on Bach, which was an early album that
Speaker 1: really uh pushed mog into the limelight like it. It
Speaker 1: was a very popular album. It hit top twenty charts
Speaker 1: and I own this on vinyl. It is at my
Speaker 1: house right now. I have a vinyl copy of Switched
Speaker 1: on Bach. Now did that album actually make an appearance
Speaker 1: in the movie A Clockwork Orange? Or was that that
Speaker 1: was Wendy Carlos scoring? When Carlos scored music and that
Speaker 1: oh wait, that was Beethoven, wasn't it Beethoven was the piece?
Speaker 1: That was the music? That was That's right, the lindvig Van.
Speaker 1: But Wendy Carlos scored Clockwork Orange. She also scored the
Speaker 1: Shining Um. And then also, I like the soundtrack to
Speaker 1: Lady Hawk. I don't know what that is. You don't
Speaker 1: know what Lady Hawk is. Lady Hawk is a fantasy
Speaker 1: film from the mid eighties and it starred Matthew Broderick
Speaker 1: as a thief. No, no, he was a thief named mouse.
Speaker 1: Rutger Howard played a no. Rugger Howard was a a
Speaker 1: like canthrope who was in love with a a young
Speaker 1: lady played by um By Lady Hawk. Well, she was
Speaker 1: the Lady Hawk, but the name suddenly escapes me, and
Speaker 1: that's terrible but anyway, and it will kill me. People
Speaker 1: right in and tell me who was Michelle Phifer. Michelle Phiper,
Speaker 1: she was Lady Hawk. Uh. So, the story goes that
Speaker 1: he turns into uh, a wolf at night, she turns
Speaker 1: into Rugger Howard. She turns into a bird in the daytime.
Speaker 1: They are in love with one another, but they can
Speaker 1: never be together because as one is transforming into human,
Speaker 1: the other one's transforming into animal. And it's this kind
Speaker 1: of story of tragedy as they as Rutger, Howard's character
Speaker 1: is looking to enact revenge upon the the person who
Speaker 1: has cursed them to this existence. Howard has so many
Speaker 1: time related struggles. He wants more life. He needs to
Speaker 1: be a day wolf. Yep. So the The soundtrack is
Speaker 1: a mixture of orchestral uh and pop scynth, rock and uh.
Speaker 1: Some people absolutely detest it. I love it. I love
Speaker 1: it because it is very much a thing of its time.
Speaker 1: It would not fit in any other time period. Like
Speaker 1: if this movie remain in the nineties and it had
Speaker 1: that soundtrack, you would be scratching your head wondering why.
Speaker 1: But in the eighties it was right there at the
Speaker 1: forefront of this pop scynth score movement that some people
Speaker 1: hate but I love also. I mean I mentioned switched
Speaker 1: on Bach. Have you ever heard of the Disney's Main
Speaker 1: Street Electrical Parade. I know, I don't know what you're
Speaker 1: talking about. So it's a parade that was very popular
Speaker 1: at Disney World and Disneyland. Don't know if they still
Speaker 1: do it. Parade and actual parade. Yeah, you would go
Speaker 1: and and find a spot on Main Street and wait
Speaker 1: and the floats. It was at night, and the floats
Speaker 1: were all lit up with various led lights. I think
Speaker 1: they are originally like incandescent lights when it was first going,
Speaker 1: because that's how old the parade, sure, and uh, the
Speaker 1: the but the music was all electronic music and very peppy,
Speaker 1: and it included motifs from various Disney films like Mary
Speaker 1: Poppins and Pete's Dragon and that kind of stuff. And um,
Speaker 1: and I had that on vinyl. It's a little uh uh,
Speaker 1: a little uh tiny um, which is great. There was
Speaker 1: an album called The Moge Cookbook. Did you ever hear this? So?
Speaker 1: I didn't hear this came out in the mid nineties.
Speaker 1: The mog Cookbook is a cover album. Uh. The cover
Speaker 1: the songs are all like from the mid nineties but
Speaker 1: covered with folks. So you've got like, wait, is it
Speaker 1: not the Moke Coke Boke. No, it's not the Mo
Speaker 1: Coke Boke. It's the Mo Cookbook. I looked it up.
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, it included a black Hole Sun, Buddy Holly,
Speaker 1: basket Case, free Fallen, Smells like teen Spirit, and several
Speaker 1: other songs. Wait, it included the artist Buddy Holly or
Speaker 1: the song Buddy the song Buddy Hollybyewheezer, because they were
Speaker 1: all from that that general era. And I also have
Speaker 1: an un ironic love for the music of sticks, in
Speaker 1: which keyboard solos often play a pivotal role. Well, it
Speaker 1: can't fault you there some of my own favorite electronic music,
Speaker 1: like you. A lot of the electronic music that came
Speaker 1: to mind was from soundtracks. Of course. I think of
Speaker 1: the Doctor Who theme, which is a wonderful early electronic masterpiece.
Speaker 1: It was composed in the BBC Audio Workshops by somebody
Speaker 1: named Delia derby Shire, or actually I think it was
Speaker 1: composed originally by somebody else as a piece of written music,
Speaker 1: but realized electronically in a fascinating and wonderful way. By
Speaker 1: By Derby Shire at the BBC then, so much so
Speaker 1: that the original composer actually said, at this point, this
Speaker 1: music is not really my own anymore. It's it's Derby Shire's.
Speaker 1: And not that that. It wasn't wasn't distancing from the music.
Speaker 1: It wasn't saying like this is a bad thing, but
Speaker 1: this is a remarkable thing. Yeah. And also I would
Speaker 1: have to mention the electronic compositions of one John Carpenter.
Speaker 1: For example, I cannot get enough of the soundtrack of
Speaker 1: Halloween three Season of the Witch, a movie with much
Speaker 1: better music than it deserves. Now did they use the
Speaker 1: same motif as the Michael Myers motif and Halloween's one
Speaker 1: and two? It's been a lontestis and it's different. It's
Speaker 1: got it's got some of some kind of similar themes
Speaker 1: weaving in and out, but but it's its own thing.
Speaker 1: You should dun dunt dun dundu dun mean that shows
Speaker 1: up a little, But you should just listen to the
Speaker 1: Halloween three soundtrack. It's great electronic musical. I'll have to
Speaker 1: take a listen. Yeah, I love the John Carpenter stuff
Speaker 1: like I love this stuff from Big Trouble, Old China
Speaker 1: and and uh, you know, like even some of the
Speaker 1: things that are are he's playing songs that are more
Speaker 1: guitar driven, but you can tell them instead of guitar
Speaker 1: they're using a synthesizer, which is kind of cool. That's
Speaker 1: a kind of different thing once you start talking about
Speaker 1: digitally edited together music. But also, earlier today, because I
Speaker 1: knew we were going to do this, I asked my
Speaker 1: co host, one of my co hosts from Stuff to
Speaker 1: Blow Your Mind, Robert Lamb, about his favorite old school
Speaker 1: SyncE stuff and he recommended a guy named Mort Garson,
Speaker 1: who had never heard of before, but who performs under
Speaker 1: the He did perform under one name. Lucifer was the
Speaker 1: performer artist's name, and there was an album unreleased under
Speaker 1: the artist name Lucifer. That's just great. I listened to
Speaker 1: it earlier today and I loved it. It's very moogie.
Speaker 1: I don't know if it was actually done on a mook,
Speaker 1: but it it sounds like it's got that old school synthesizers.
Speaker 1: Sounds analogue. Um, but what we should get to the
Speaker 1: origin of the Moog story. Moog the mogue. We should
Speaker 1: get to the origin of the Moge story. So who
Speaker 1: was Bob mog Yeah, and and keep in mind, like
Speaker 1: when we talk about the Moge story and we're talking
Speaker 1: about the birth of the analog synthesizer, there were other
Speaker 1: groups also working on synthesizers at the same time as Moge.
Speaker 1: But Mogue's name has sort of become iconic in this
Speaker 1: idea of the analog physical circuitry synthesizer for multiple reasons.
Speaker 1: So who was he, Well, he's he was born in Queens,
Speaker 1: New York on May and as a kid, he became
Speaker 1: really interested in electronics, just thought it was a fascinating
Speaker 1: thing and so he really kind of dove into it.
Speaker 1: And he also was really interested in the idea of
Speaker 1: using electronics to make music. I think it's called mosic maybe. Uh.
Speaker 1: He however, was not um a musician himself or or
Speaker 1: mosician if you prefer. He was not a musician himself,
Speaker 1: but he liked the thought of creating the instruments that
Speaker 1: would be you know, would allow someone else to make music.
Speaker 1: And one of the first things he really became interested
Speaker 1: in was the thereman, which we have covered on tech
Speaker 1: stuff before. The thereman had been invented back in the twenties,
Speaker 1: so he was that had already been around for quite
Speaker 1: some time before Mogue was even born, but Mog got
Speaker 1: interested in it. And in case you don't remember what
Speaker 1: a thereman is, just imagine a box that has a
Speaker 1: pair of antenna. Typically you have one vertical antenna and
Speaker 1: one horizontal antenna poking out of this box, and the
Speaker 1: antenna rely on radio waves around them, and as you
Speaker 1: move your hands closer to in a way from you
Speaker 1: start to interfere with the waves that are around this antenna.
Speaker 1: You never make contact, or you don't. You're not supposed
Speaker 1: to make contact with the antenna. You don't have to.
Speaker 1: It's just by bringing your hands closer and moving them
Speaker 1: further apart, you can change a tone that is generated
Speaker 1: by this device. Now, what does the thereman sound like?
Speaker 1: Just imagine in your head all of the goofy bad
Speaker 1: horror and sci fi movies you saw in the nineteen fifties,
Speaker 1: especially sci fi yeah that was big, like yeah and
Speaker 1: uh and typically like not. Typically, the way it would
Speaker 1: work is that one of the antenna would would change
Speaker 1: the pitch as you moved your hand closer and further away,
Speaker 1: and the other one controlled the volume. So as you're
Speaker 1: one is one is how high the flying saucer is
Speaker 1: often and the other one is how close it's coming
Speaker 1: towards you, yeah, or whether it's moving towards you or
Speaker 1: away from you. All Right, so I like, oh, it's
Speaker 1: getting closer because Doppler effect. Uh so, yeah, it's It
Speaker 1: was a really interesting and odd musical device, and mog
Speaker 1: was really interested in them. He built his first one
Speaker 1: when he was either fourteen or fifteen. I've seen reports
Speaker 1: that site one age or the other. But right in
Speaker 1: that friend that a four that he's well, no way,
Speaker 1: I think that's when he said he sold his first one, right,
Speaker 1: So he started building them when he was still a teenager.
Speaker 1: By the age of nineteen, that's when he started a
Speaker 1: business them. Yeah, he actually and he didn't just sell thereman's.
Speaker 1: He did do that, but he also sold kits and
Speaker 1: partially constructed ones. So in other words, he was helping
Speaker 1: other d I Y enthusiasts. I assume that if you
Speaker 1: wanted a completed kit, and that would obviously be more
Speaker 1: expensive than just buying the parts from him and then
Speaker 1: the instructions and putting them together yourself. Um, And he
Speaker 1: and his father kind of created a business together and
Speaker 1: it was the r a MO company. Uh. He then
Speaker 1: would go on to attend college and go on to
Speaker 1: graduate school at Cornell and while he was there he
Speaker 1: was studying physical engineering and in nineteen sixty three he
Speaker 1: met a guy named Walter Sear who was a tuba manufacturer. Manufacturer, No,
Speaker 1: how many times are we going to do this? You're
Speaker 1: not the one who gets the email Joe yea? But yes,
Speaker 1: how many people have that job? At least one a right,
Speaker 1: at least oneacturers operate in the world at the same time.
Speaker 1: You do wonder what the you know, how tuba's have
Speaker 1: to last a long time? Right, there's gotta be a
Speaker 1: major resell expired. I gotta check it out. Tending to
Speaker 1: go buy a new tuba? Uh so, Yeah, he met
Speaker 1: Walter Seer, and Seer thought that Mog was an interesting
Speaker 1: guy and said that Mog should go to the New
Speaker 1: York State School Music Association gathering, And while he was
Speaker 1: there he met another guy named Herb Deutsch, and Deutsch
Speaker 1: was part of the experimental music movement that was starting
Speaker 1: to really kind of play with the idea of what
Speaker 1: is music and what what can be music and what
Speaker 1: can music do? Like really pushing the boundary going beyond
Speaker 1: just the simple construction of a song and and get
Speaker 1: really weird stuff. And Mog talks about how it was
Speaker 1: his meeting with Deutsch that sort of really got him
Speaker 1: interested in electronic music and wanting to build equipment that
Speaker 1: would help us create new kinds of sounds. Yeah, the
Speaker 1: two of them kind of agreed that this would be
Speaker 1: a really interesting prospect, the idea of building a device
Speaker 1: specifically to create new sounds for music. And so, with
Speaker 1: Deutsch's urging, that's what Mog set out to do, and
Speaker 1: he created a shop near Ithaca, New York, UH and
Speaker 1: began to experiment using silicon transistors as the basic components.
Speaker 1: Transistors were kind of a game changer at the time, right, absolutely, Yeah,
Speaker 1: totally changing what you could do with electronic equipment. Well,
Speaker 1: it certainly changed, yes, And the main reason is because
Speaker 1: they took up less space and generated less heat than
Speaker 1: the alternatives, right, because it would be vacuum too exactly.
Speaker 1: We'll be back with more about the Mog story after
Speaker 1: this break. So there were certainly electronics before transistors, but
Speaker 1: they were larger and they generated way more heat. And
Speaker 1: so if you wanted to have an electronic device that
Speaker 1: was a musical instrument before the invention of the transistor.
Speaker 1: You're looking at some pretty unwieldy equipment. It's gonna be
Speaker 1: bigger and hotter than what you would find later on
Speaker 1: once you switched over to transistors. So he began to
Speaker 1: look at transistors to be the basis of the circuitry
Speaker 1: he would use to create a Mogue musical instrument. And uh,
Speaker 1: he found that he could alter the pitch, like as
Speaker 1: long as he created frequencies that were within the range
Speaker 1: of human hearing, he could alter the pitch by changing
Speaker 1: the voltage in various circuits before sending that signal out
Speaker 1: to to allowed speaker. So as long as you keep
Speaker 1: the frequency betwe say twenty hurts and twenty thousand hurts
Speaker 1: that's the range of human hearing, then you can do that.
Speaker 1: If you go beyond that, obviously, then you most people
Speaker 1: are unable to perceive it. And obviously not everyone has
Speaker 1: exactly that range, right, Some people start, especially as you
Speaker 1: get older, you start to lose the ability to perceive
Speaker 1: at the higher end, which is why I no longer
Speaker 1: hear children. Oh yeah, I remember those stories about the
Speaker 1: cell phone tones that only kids could hear. Because they're
Speaker 1: too high pitch for adults to hear. Was that true
Speaker 1: or was that that I hope? I don't know. I
Speaker 1: heard a similar story about how how like um gas
Speaker 1: stations were employing loudspeaker systems that would play that pitch
Speaker 1: at a high volume because adults couldn't hear it, and
Speaker 1: it discouraged kids from loitering. Man, that's that's that's that's
Speaker 1: another story I heard, But I don't know if that's true.
Speaker 1: If you wanted to be a really cool uh synthesizer musician,
Speaker 1: you could create a musical instrument that only plays in
Speaker 1: the frequency range that adults can it here, and so
Speaker 1: you couldn't have stodgy adults coming into your concert and
Speaker 1: just well I guess you could have them just they're pretending,
Speaker 1: or they would or they just say like, I don't
Speaker 1: understand the music these days, uh, or yeah, yeah I
Speaker 1: hear it. Man, you go a step further and you
Speaker 1: just make music for dogs. You know you could do that.
Speaker 1: So so Moe created a circuit. One of the one
Speaker 1: of the music stores I go to here in town
Speaker 1: called Decatur c D. If you go in there, there's
Speaker 1: an album they sell. They've always got in stock that
Speaker 1: I think is called music for dogs. There might be
Speaker 1: called like music dogs love. I've never listened to it. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: just be a bunch of cats melling. I don't know
Speaker 1: what it is, maybe maybe a doorbell occasionally. Have to
Speaker 1: ask about it next time. Well, Moe created a circuit
Speaker 1: that produced a pitch and then with an increase of
Speaker 1: one vault, that pitch would go up one octave. That's convenient, right,
Speaker 1: And then the pitch would change back and forth using
Speaker 1: different types of wave forms, which I will cover it
Speaker 1: are on in this episode, so I'll explain all about
Speaker 1: the different wave forms because that's an important part of
Speaker 1: what makes a mogue sound the way it does, and
Speaker 1: other analog synthesizers as well. Um, and it would create
Speaker 1: the sort of weird vibratos sound. And he gave the
Speaker 1: instrument his own last name, possibly following the lead of Thereman.
Speaker 1: Therreman was named after the guy who invented it. It's
Speaker 1: not a word that was made up for the device.
Speaker 1: It's actually named after the inventor. It sounds like a
Speaker 1: made up word, it does, but it was somebody named
Speaker 1: like like Jeff Thereman. Yeah, it was exactly that. It
Speaker 1: was Jeff thereman, it was not, but at any rate, no,
Speaker 1: it's he decided to name it after himself. You know,
Speaker 1: there are tapes of Mog giving early demonstrations of of
Speaker 1: his synthesizer equipment when he when he was very first
Speaker 1: developing it. And in one of those tapes that I
Speaker 1: heard by listening to the documentary Mogue, which which is
Speaker 1: a documentary that that I watched online about Robert Mgane.
Speaker 1: And it's available on YouTube, so you can actually watch
Speaker 1: the whole thing, right, it might be a bootleg. I
Speaker 1: don't know. Well, well, it definitely is there. If you
Speaker 1: want to unethically watch the whole thing, it's on there.
Speaker 1: But yeah, so there there was a nineteen sixty four
Speaker 1: demonstration where Mog is talking about a prototype modular synthesizer
Speaker 1: and he calls it the Abominatron and I love that.
Speaker 1: So he obviously has a sense of humor about it.
Speaker 1: But it does kind of get to a problem that
Speaker 1: Mog started noticing when he was first making his his
Speaker 1: synthesizers public. He says that people reacted to it by
Speaker 1: saying it wasn't natural. He says that, you know, the
Speaker 1: first response was that it was just not right, something
Speaker 1: about using this electronic means of creating musical pitch was
Speaker 1: not the way things should be in music. And he
Speaker 1: even tells a story where there's an interviewer who is,
Speaker 1: you know, interviewing him about his new technology, and he
Speaker 1: leans into him and the interviewer says, tell me, Mr Mog,
Speaker 1: don't you feel guilty about what you've done? Sick burn?
Speaker 1: And so MoG's interpretation of that is that the the
Speaker 1: reporter's point of view was that by creating the means
Speaker 1: to generate tones without traditional instruments made of wood or
Speaker 1: brass or plucking strings or something like that, he was
Speaker 1: somehow perverting and destroying music, doing something offensive to an
Speaker 1: ancient tradition from human culture, which again to me, is
Speaker 1: ludicrous on the very face of it, because the history
Speaker 1: of music is one of innovation, where people have created
Speaker 1: instruments that are more capable than their predecessors. Right, the
Speaker 1: piano forte is a lot different than the ancestors to
Speaker 1: the piano. Well, yeah, and I hate to break it
Speaker 1: to these people, but the piano has not existed for
Speaker 1: tend that in years, and it was only a few
Speaker 1: hundred years old, right, And before that they were. You know,
Speaker 1: you had the harpsichord, where you had the plucking of
Speaker 1: metal tabs as opposed to the percussion of strings. And
Speaker 1: if you look at the history of music again, it
Speaker 1: is all about innovation, and so I think it was
Speaker 1: just that it sounded so different from the stuff that
Speaker 1: came before it that people's initial reaction was one of confusion,
Speaker 1: and maybe they were a little unsettled that this thing
Speaker 1: that did not have any moving parts to it, unlike
Speaker 1: something like, you know, a stringed instrument where you can
Speaker 1: actually see the action that is creating the sound that
Speaker 1: you hear, or a wind instrument where you can see
Speaker 1: that the musician is breathing life into this object and
Speaker 1: you're getting music out of it. This is a monstrosity
Speaker 1: of a machine of wires and transistors that you know
Speaker 1: when you press a button a sound comes out of it.
Speaker 1: And I think it must have just felt like it
Speaker 1: was too far removed for some people to be comfortable
Speaker 1: with it. Well, one possibility that comes up this is
Speaker 1: also from MoG's comments in that documentary, and I think
Speaker 1: this is really interesting. I've always thought of the idea
Speaker 1: of a synthesizer as Okay, it has that name because
Speaker 1: it creates something synthetic, like there are natural sounds, and
Speaker 1: then there are synthetic sounds, as in fake sounds created
Speaker 1: by this fake sound making machine, the synthesizer. The the
Speaker 1: idea being that this this device can synthesize the sound
Speaker 1: of other quote unquote real musical instruments. But that's not
Speaker 1: at all the sense in which the name was originally intended. It. Originally,
Speaker 1: Mog says, the term synthesizer came from the other main
Speaker 1: meaning of synthesis, like the combination of elements to create
Speaker 1: a whole. Like when you, you you know, you take a
Speaker 1: bunch of research sources and synthesize them into a single
Speaker 1: co current vision of something, right, like a like a
Speaker 1: dissertation of some sort. Yeah, that would be synthesis. Uh,
Speaker 1: and so in that applies to his technology because originally
Speaker 1: what Mog was creating was individual modules for modulating sounds.
Speaker 1: So you'd make a module that generates a square wave,
Speaker 1: or a module that does this, or module that does that.
Speaker 1: And if you combine all these modules together into a
Speaker 1: single huge instrument that you can manipulate in lots of
Speaker 1: different ways, you're essentially creating an electronic music, modulation, synthesis,
Speaker 1: it's it's a synthesizer. It's it's it's a hole that's
Speaker 1: greater than the sum of its parts in many ways,
Speaker 1: because these modules are arranged in such a way so
Speaker 1: that you can connect them in in different ways dynamically,
Speaker 1: like you can change the connections, so it's not like
Speaker 1: you can plug one into another or you can buy
Speaker 1: Now you've made a new type of machine. And that's
Speaker 1: that's the I mean, that's the whole basis of modular
Speaker 1: uh electronics and modular inventions. It's this idea that by
Speaker 1: making these combinations you can innovate. We've seen that in
Speaker 1: technology and other areas to the idea like the modular phone,
Speaker 1: where you put a phone together with just the elements
Speaker 1: that you want. And there are a couple of different
Speaker 1: companies that are trying this approach out and it you know,
Speaker 1: we'll have to wait and see if that actually becomes successful,
Speaker 1: but it's a really interesting idea where the consumer determines
Speaker 1: what his or her phone has just based on the
Speaker 1: modules you want to include, and you leave out anything
Speaker 1: you're not interested in. Well, that's sort of the same
Speaker 1: idea behind the synthesizer except of course, the goal was
Speaker 1: what are the different ways we can manipulate electronic frequencies
Speaker 1: to create different types of sound? Yeah, and so eventually
Speaker 1: Mog did bring a model to market. Yeah. He He
Speaker 1: actually made quite a few different models. One of the
Speaker 1: one of the ones that was in development for a
Speaker 1: very long time was the Mini Mooge. I think that
Speaker 1: was a popular one. Yeah. So the mo mode are
Speaker 1: um like, if you're thinking of just a keyboard, your
Speaker 1: way off mogue is buying a Mogue is like buying
Speaker 1: a boat. Yeah. I mean they talked about it in
Speaker 1: in some detail in this documentary were Mog talks about
Speaker 1: how when they sold these things originally it was kind
Speaker 1: of a tricky business because it wasn't like, you know,
Speaker 1: they're generating Fender stratocasters and things sell a hundred thousand
Speaker 1: of them a month or something like that. I don't
Speaker 1: know how many stratocasters, but it wasn't a mass market item.
Speaker 1: They were making them one at a time and selling
Speaker 1: them one at a time, and they were very bulky
Speaker 1: and very expensive, and so most of their customers were
Speaker 1: people who had a lot of money and expected to
Speaker 1: get a lot of use out of the machine. So
Speaker 1: for example, like a music house studio that recorded commercial
Speaker 1: jingles or something like soundtracks to nine science films. So, uh,
Speaker 1: the way I tend to describe these early synthesizers, these
Speaker 1: analog synthesizers, is that imagine that you've got a keyboard
Speaker 1: and it's attached to a what looks like a old
Speaker 1: fashioned telephone switchboard, the kind where you would plug cables
Speaker 1: in to make the connections, like, uh, you know, I'll
Speaker 1: ring her for you, and you plug the cable in
Speaker 1: and then you make the actual physical connection between two
Speaker 1: lines similar to that, except of course, instead of connecting
Speaker 1: two lines, you are connecting modules together to manipulate an
Speaker 1: electronic signal in some way. When I used to see
Speaker 1: mog synthesizer boards with all of the cables hanging out
Speaker 1: of them, what I honestly thought was that this was
Speaker 1: just people. It was like intentional obscurity. I thought it
Speaker 1: was people just trying to look cool or be funny
Speaker 1: by having all these cables hanging out. No, that's how
Speaker 1: you make the sound of your instrument is by plugging
Speaker 1: like fifty different cables into different places, right, And it
Speaker 1: all depends on how many modules you have as part
Speaker 1: of your synthesizer, if you have one of the big ones, yeah,
Speaker 1: because because I mean if you have just a few modules,
Speaker 1: then one your synthesizer is going to be more limited.
Speaker 1: You won't be able to do as many variations on
Speaker 1: that electronic signal as you could with one that has
Speaker 1: a lot more modules, but it also be smaller. Like
Speaker 1: that was the idea that Mini Mogue, right, was the
Speaker 1: idea that let's try and get something that is of
Speaker 1: a manageable size because these are big instruments. Um So,
Speaker 1: one of the other models that became famous with the
Speaker 1: Mogue name, and somewhat controversially is the Sonic six, which
Speaker 1: began its life as a different device that was made
Speaker 1: by someone who had originally worked for Mogue left the
Speaker 1: company ended up joining another company. That company ended up
Speaker 1: buying Mogue because, as you were pointing out the business
Speaker 1: model Mogue was following, it's pretty limited. It was it
Speaker 1: was hard to make a profit, it was hard to
Speaker 1: stay afloat. And so I believe that that Moge was
Speaker 1: sold for something like a quarter of a million dollars,
Speaker 1: which was the amount of debt it had accrued, and
Speaker 1: but they decided to keep the Mogue name because it
Speaker 1: had real brand recognition among musicians, and they actually did
Speaker 1: take this pre existing prototype that was originally not a
Speaker 1: Moge device, changed it around a little bit by adding
Speaker 1: in some components that were found in Mogue devices and
Speaker 1: put that the market. So it's the Sonic six is
Speaker 1: very different from the other Mogue instruments of that time.
Speaker 1: But um and it's one of those that that still
Speaker 1: like like aficionados still really love that particular instrument. Uh.
Speaker 1: Mog himself passed away in two thousand five, but the
Speaker 1: Moge brand name still exists. You can still buy products
Speaker 1: from Mogue. It's not it's kind of it's not not
Speaker 1: as bad as Atari, but it is kind of different
Speaker 1: from the original Mogue company. But but it has a
Speaker 1: stronger claim to that name than say anything that you
Speaker 1: call Atari these days. That name is is long since
Speaker 1: severed all connection to its origins. Well, then what is
Speaker 1: it you really think of as being the essence of
Speaker 1: the legacy of Moga. I I don't know to what
Speaker 1: extent this is true about the products they create today,
Speaker 1: but historically I think of Mog as being a company
Speaker 1: associated with analog electronic music, as opposed to digitally digitally
Speaker 1: created electronic tones. Yeah, and and the difference there is important.
Speaker 1: Although you could argue that our our ability to get
Speaker 1: ever more refined digital music has largely erased the gap
Speaker 1: between the two, there still is a fundamental difference in
Speaker 1: the technology. And UH the best way of of explaining
Speaker 1: this is to imagine that the sound you get with
Speaker 1: analog UH instrumentation and analog recording is a contin u
Speaker 1: s wave of sound. Right Like, just as I am
Speaker 1: creating sound right now, to you, Joe, maybe not to
Speaker 1: the listeners because they're listening to a digital file, but
Speaker 1: to you, Joe, I'm creating sound is a continuous a
Speaker 1: wave every time I'm generating that sound, right, But you,
Speaker 1: you listeners at home, are getting, unfortunately, just a sampling's voice,
Speaker 1: because that's the digital conversion. So if you were to
Speaker 1: look at analog music in a in a form where
Speaker 1: you're you know, you're trying to visualize it, we always
Speaker 1: use the wave form, right, That's that's how we we
Speaker 1: visually depict a a sound file or a sound or
Speaker 1: rather a sound wave in an analog format. UM. And
Speaker 1: this is because it's continuous. There's no point where in
Speaker 1: one moment it ends in the next moment it begins.
Speaker 1: For for a single sound, it's it's continuous until the
Speaker 1: sound is done. Um, this is different from digital. Digital
Speaker 1: is discreet. Digital. You have numbers that represent a single
Speaker 1: slice of time at which point there is a sound,
Speaker 1: and the number of slices of time you have within
Speaker 1: say a second, tells you the sample rate that you
Speaker 1: have for your digital sound file. The sample rate is
Speaker 1: how many times you sample that sound within a second
Speaker 1: h to represent it in a digital format. The more
Speaker 1: times you do it, the closer it's going to sound
Speaker 1: to the original analog source. But also the more information
Speaker 1: you are including in your sound file. Your file gets
Speaker 1: bigger and bigger as your sample rate goes up. Right,
Speaker 1: But if your sample rate is really low, then it's
Speaker 1: almost like you are only able to listen to a
Speaker 1: fraction of a second of each moment that you're listening
Speaker 1: to music. It will be a very different experience than
Speaker 1: if it's a continuous experience. You know, a continuous uh performance,
Speaker 1: and that all applies to playback and stuff recording a
Speaker 1: piece of music and then playing it back. You could
Speaker 1: have an analog playback format like a vinyl record or
Speaker 1: digital playback format like an MP three or SC or something. Uh.
Speaker 1: But but here we're we're talking about the generation of
Speaker 1: sounds inside the machine and that that happens differently in
Speaker 1: digital versus analog ways to So in the digital version,
Speaker 1: and the way MOG would explain it is, you know,
Speaker 1: you've got a sound saved in memory that's represented digitally
Speaker 1: a set of values. You call that up, you send
Speaker 1: it to the speakers, and the speakers play it, so
Speaker 1: they create the vibrations there With an analog generated tone,
Speaker 1: what's coming out of the speakers is generated by the
Speaker 1: natural vibrations of the electronic components in the machine, right,
Speaker 1: And by by vibrations, we're talking about the frequency of
Speaker 1: the the electronic signal. Yeah, so it's the circuitry that's
Speaker 1: making the sound as opposed to just replicating something with
Speaker 1: ones and zeros. It is a bit of a fine distinction.
Speaker 1: There's also there's also another concept called sample precision, which
Speaker 1: tells you how big a gradation you have when you're
Speaker 1: doing a step from one sampled moment of a of
Speaker 1: a piece to the next. Um Like, are you able
Speaker 1: to get that so precise that it feels like a
Speaker 1: continuous piece of music. Because one of the things about
Speaker 1: a analog wave is that you have an infinite number
Speaker 1: of values within any analog wave, right, because you could
Speaker 1: just keep getting more and more fine tuned. So uh like,
Speaker 1: if you're looking at a sixty hurts uh frequency sound
Speaker 1: wave where it's going from positive sixty to negative sixty
Speaker 1: hurts any point in there, you could say, like, all right,
Speaker 1: well here's twenty hurts right here, this is the part
Speaker 1: of a period of a wave where it's a twenty hurts.
Speaker 1: But then you can zoom in and say, okay, well
Speaker 1: here's twenty point five hurts. You can zoom in more
Speaker 1: is it? Here's twenty point five five hurts, and you
Speaker 1: could keep on doing that. With digital you can't. You
Speaker 1: have a specific value for a specific moment of time,
Speaker 1: and then you have a specific value for the next
Speaker 1: moment of time. But there's nothing in between. You can't
Speaker 1: you can't zoom in any further. You are as far
Speaker 1: in as you can go. So they are discreet. There
Speaker 1: is a finite amount of representation in a digital file.
Speaker 1: There's infinite and analog. Jonathan, are you trying to get
Speaker 1: me to have thoughts about my mortality? You know? I
Speaker 1: got some stuff to sell you after the end of
Speaker 1: this podcast, but I'll save it for when we're off
Speaker 1: the air. We have a bit more to say about
Speaker 1: the Mogue synthesizer, at least part one of it, but
Speaker 1: we'll be doing that after we have this quick break.
Speaker 1: So one thing I thought would be really cool, obviously,
Speaker 1: is to talk about these modules, the circuitry that are
Speaker 1: that's in a Mogue synthesizer and actually explain what the
Speaker 1: heck these things do, because if you know, we're talking
Speaker 1: about generalities and and the principles behind it, but how
Speaker 1: does it actually work? Right? Well, we we mentioned before
Speaker 1: that the the this idea of a synthesizer is made
Speaker 1: out of modules, and that's modules in the sense of
Speaker 1: something being modular right there. There are pieces that you
Speaker 1: can insert and exchange, and the basic idea is that
Speaker 1: each module does something specific and relatively simple. You get
Speaker 1: even more simple when you look at the components within
Speaker 1: those modules. They are they are like the embodiment of
Speaker 1: that idea. Each circuitry component does a very specific thing
Speaker 1: and that's all it does. And that simplicity is what
Speaker 1: allows you to pair these with other elements to create
Speaker 1: more complexity. So when you break it down to its
Speaker 1: individual parts, it's simple. When you put them all collectively together,
Speaker 1: that's where it gets complex and you start to think
Speaker 1: you've got to have a degree in physics to play
Speaker 1: this instrument. And uh, it's really cool. Well, we know
Speaker 1: that there are going to be a lot of different
Speaker 1: ways of manipulating the sound electronically, but I'm interested in
Speaker 1: where the sound actually comes from. What like, So a
Speaker 1: sound is a vibration in the air, but that's got
Speaker 1: to originate with something oscillating inside the equipment. Where does
Speaker 1: that come from? That comes from? An oscillator actually is uh,
Speaker 1: which I originally thought was a breed of like kind
Speaker 1: of type of cat, part of the feline family. Where
Speaker 1: oscillators that's apparently awesome lots you know they're called oscillators, right,
Speaker 1: So oscillators are that's what provides the the the oscillation
Speaker 1: the frequency here of a a an electric electronic signal.
Speaker 1: So oscillators don't have to be electronic, right, Oscillators can
Speaker 1: be a pendulum is an oscillator? Is it? Is? It
Speaker 1: pretty much that if anything goes back and forth, it's
Speaker 1: an oscillator pretty much. Yeah, it's something that it has
Speaker 1: a a wave, and it has each you know, it
Speaker 1: has this periodic behavior to it that repeats until some
Speaker 1: other force causes it to stop. In the case of
Speaker 1: a pendulum, friction will eventually cause the pendulum to stop swinging.
Speaker 1: So when Mo slaps Larry and curly back and forth
Speaker 1: rapidly between their two faces, his hand is yeah, it's oscillating,
Speaker 1: and uh yeah. So an oscillator swings back and forth
Speaker 1: a certain number of times in a certain number within
Speaker 1: a certain time period. Usually we talked about a second
Speaker 1: being the time period and the number would be at
Speaker 1: least in sound. We talked about it. It hurts by
Speaker 1: the length of time that a waves period passes through
Speaker 1: a certain stationary point. So a period on a wave,
Speaker 1: you pick a stationary point on a wave. Let's the
Speaker 1: easiest is either the peak or the trough, like the
Speaker 1: lowest point or the highest point on a wave, and
Speaker 1: you go to the next peak or trough, whichever one
Speaker 1: you picked. So peak to peak from mountain, valley, mountain
Speaker 1: to mountain, and that distance from that same point on
Speaker 1: those on those two sections, that's the period of the
Speaker 1: wave and the number of times that passes. Uh that
Speaker 1: happens within a second. That's the frequency, and if it
Speaker 1: happens twenty times in a second, that's twenty hurts. Hurts
Speaker 1: as the unit we give for frequency, and twenty hurts
Speaker 1: is again at that low level of perception for humans,
Speaker 1: like that's that's about as low as you can go
Speaker 1: after that. When you go lower than twenty hurts, you
Speaker 1: get into sounds that you cannot hear, but you can feel,
Speaker 1: like if you've ever felt the force of something but
Speaker 1: you're not actually hearing anything. That's probably below twenty hurts. Uh.
Speaker 1: And then of course if you get up to twenty
Speaker 1: thousand hurts, that means that the waves are repeating twenty
Speaker 1: times a second. That's that the upper end of human hearing.
Speaker 1: And also the frequency relates to the pitch, right, The
Speaker 1: lower the frequency of the lower the pitch, The higher
Speaker 1: the frequency, the higher the pitch, more vibrations per second,
Speaker 1: the higher it sound exactly. So Uh, the oscillator is
Speaker 1: the heart of the synthesizer. The oscillator is what allows
Speaker 1: this frequency to happen and then be sent to the
Speaker 1: other modules to have it altered in some way. So
Speaker 1: you could just use an oscillator. In fact, you could
Speaker 1: just use an oscillator connected to speakers, but you would
Speaker 1: just constantly be generating noise because there'll be no governing
Speaker 1: element there to stop it from making noise. As long
Speaker 1: as that course it had a signal coming into it,
Speaker 1: you obviously have to feed it with electricity. So a
Speaker 1: very simple oscillator would be pairing a capacitor with an inductor.
Speaker 1: These are two very basic electronic components, and a capacitor
Speaker 1: is essentially a pair of plates and you build up
Speaker 1: the charge on one plate until there's enough charge for
Speaker 1: it to jump across the gap. So capacitors are kind
Speaker 1: of like batteries. They store energy, but they release all
Speaker 1: their energy in a single go acting batteries. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: like the flash on an old camera, flash that works
Speaker 1: by capacitor because you wanted to release the energy all
Speaker 1: at once. If it were a battery, the light would
Speaker 1: take too long to light up and go down, and
Speaker 1: it would you would never get a good photograph. So
Speaker 1: they're different from batteries and that they release all that
Speaker 1: energy at one time. The inductor is essentially a coil
Speaker 1: of wire and when it encounters electrical charge, it creates
Speaker 1: a magnetic field. So if you pair a capacitor with
Speaker 1: an inductor. What happens is electricity goes from the capacitor,
Speaker 1: discharges into the inductor, which creates a magnetic field. That
Speaker 1: magnetic field begins to build up a charge on the
Speaker 1: capacitor's other plate. So you're getting the polar opposite charge.
Speaker 1: So talk about voltages, Actually you get the polar opposite voltage.
Speaker 1: So you put in sixty volts on one side, it's
Speaker 1: the minus sixty volts coming back the other way. Uh.
Speaker 1: It's the way we describe the movement of electricity here.
Speaker 1: And then it discharges again, but now it's the opposite polarity,
Speaker 1: and then it doesn't again. So that's why when you
Speaker 1: look at the the wave depiction of uh sound, you
Speaker 1: have those peaks and those valleys. It's the going from
Speaker 1: the positive end to the negative end of whatever that
Speaker 1: sound actually is um And it's pretty neat stuff. That's
Speaker 1: a very but that's a very basic oscillator. That's and
Speaker 1: also it would just like a pendulum would eventually stop
Speaker 1: because of friction, electronic oscillators would eventually stop if you
Speaker 1: don't feed more energy into them, they'd eventually stopped because
Speaker 1: of resistance. You know, you have resistance with electric wires.
Speaker 1: That means you lose some energy to heat and eventually
Speaker 1: you would lose enough where if you didn't pour more
Speaker 1: energy into it, it would just stop. You wouldn't have
Speaker 1: enough energy to discharge the capacitor in the first place. So,
Speaker 1: um a lot of reasons why it's similar to a
Speaker 1: physical oscillator, so that you're very basic component that is important.
Speaker 1: But like I said, if you don't have anything else,
Speaker 1: like if you had a keyboard connected to an oscillator
Speaker 1: that was connected to a speaker, like an amplifier and
Speaker 1: a speaker, then it would always be making noise. You
Speaker 1: can change the pitch by pressing keys on the keyboard,
Speaker 1: but it would never stop like it would you would
Speaker 1: just be like, unplug this thing. It's a monstrosity. So
Speaker 1: it sounds like some kind of gate a gatekeeper for voltage,
Speaker 1: and that would be the voltage controlled amplifier or v
Speaker 1: c A, which can raise or lower the volume of
Speaker 1: a synthesizer. And so it affects the amplitude of a wave.
Speaker 1: The amplitude is how high and low those peaks and
Speaker 1: troughs are right. So the frequency is the number within
Speaker 1: a certain given amount of time. The amplitude is the
Speaker 1: height the volume essentially of this and so with a
Speaker 1: v C A you can lower that volume to nothing
Speaker 1: and you can create a gate where the is a
Speaker 1: very simple logic gate which essentially says, if there's a
Speaker 1: signal coming in, then allow it to go to the speaker.
Speaker 1: So you would connect that so that when you press
Speaker 1: a key, that's essentially a signal saying I would like
Speaker 1: you to make sound now, and when you stop pressing
Speaker 1: the key its I would like you to stop making
Speaker 1: that horrible noise. And the v C A is what
Speaker 1: allows that to happen. So that's another very basic component.
Speaker 1: Um there to your electronics. Look there there for me?
Speaker 1: All right, I'm not there for them. You gotta understand
Speaker 1: whose boss, otherwise electronics will rule your life. I hope
Speaker 1: you enjoyed that classic episode from two thousand sixteen. We
Speaker 1: will conclude the two partner next week and if you
Speaker 1: have any suggestions for topics I should cover in tech Stuff,
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