WEBVTT - The Splash [6] 0:00:18.720 --> 0:00:23.080 The church was a little United Methodist church on Eastland Road, 0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:26.960 which is right off of Morland. It was an elderly 0:00:27.040 --> 0:00:34.839 white congregation in a neighborhood that had transitioned. It had 0:00:34.880 --> 0:00:38.680 gone on several months when the pastor said, we've got 0:00:38.760 --> 0:00:41.480 to do something to help the kids in this community. 0:00:43.520 --> 0:00:47.280 I was twenty six years old, just finishing up my 0:00:47.440 --> 0:00:50.760 undergraduate studies, and he asked me, if maybe you've got 0:00:50.760 --> 0:00:53.680 some extra time, can you come and help us reach 0:00:53.800 --> 0:00:58.800 these kids. So all I did was put up a 0:00:58.840 --> 0:01:02.480 basketball goal in the church parking lot, bought one basketball 0:01:02.680 --> 0:01:05.960 and went out there just myself and just started bouncing 0:01:06.000 --> 0:01:07.240 the ball in the parking. 0:01:09.280 --> 0:01:10.240 Just bouncing the bump. 0:01:11.959 --> 0:01:14.160 Did it for a couple of hours. Went inside next day, 0:01:14.480 --> 0:01:17.160 same thing, same time, just bouncing the bump. 0:01:18.319 --> 0:01:19.559 I thought, maybe it's if I'm. 0:01:19.440 --> 0:01:23.119 Consistent, and sure enough, a couple of kids showed up 0:01:23.240 --> 0:01:27.160 from the neighborhood. One week, two weeks, three weeks went on, 0:01:27.480 --> 0:01:29.360 and pretty soon before we knew it, we had one 0:01:29.440 --> 0:01:34.920 hundred kids. The tragedy began to gain more and more publicity, 0:01:35.200 --> 0:01:39.080 Our program began to get more attention, but it was 0:01:39.120 --> 0:01:42.840 sad to see the kids and as you know, adolescens, 0:01:42.880 --> 0:01:46.479 they don't want to show their fear. They would joke 0:01:46.800 --> 0:01:50.280 with each other, you know, you're gonna get snatched and 0:01:50.320 --> 0:01:53.280 somebody's coming, you know, to your house, and you know, 0:01:53.680 --> 0:01:57.000 but you could tell, you know, deep down inside they 0:01:57.040 --> 0:02:01.160 were they were really frightened. I got the feeling that 0:02:01.280 --> 0:02:06.360 they knew they were in something together, you know, confronting 0:02:06.400 --> 0:02:10.560 this serious danger. And they kind of came together and 0:02:10.960 --> 0:02:15.919 around the program and saw me as the leader. Made 0:02:15.960 --> 0:02:19.440 them feel good to be a community, you know, to 0:02:19.520 --> 0:02:25.600 be a group. There was safety in our group, and everybody, 0:02:26.440 --> 0:02:31.399 whether they admitted or not, responds to love. I think 0:02:31.440 --> 0:02:35.200 that we've made some progress, with a long way yet 0:02:35.639 --> 0:02:40.560 to go. I can see a tremendous difference in the 0:02:40.600 --> 0:02:44.360 prejudices I grew up with, being born in the mid fifties. 0:02:45.600 --> 0:02:49.600 I remember the assassination of doctor King, and I remember 0:02:49.639 --> 0:02:53.000 the kids in my elementary school saying that they were 0:02:53.000 --> 0:02:56.280 glad that he had been killed or a terrible thing 0:02:56.360 --> 0:02:59.840 for a child to say, but that's what they were, 0:03:00.280 --> 0:03:05.360 that's what they've been taught. Yeah, I remember those things 0:03:06.280 --> 0:03:11.840 and unfortunately still see some of those same prejudices that 0:03:11.880 --> 0:03:15.959 are alive, you know, even today, in our beautiful city. 0:03:16.000 --> 0:03:20.560 Although we've come a long way, there are still bigotries alive, 0:03:20.919 --> 0:03:25.800 not only here in the South, but I imagine throughout this country. Honestly, 0:03:25.880 --> 0:03:28.880 I think perhaps we hide them a little better than 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:34.840 we used to, but they're still there. I found acceptance 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:40.040 in those kids, in their families, and together we made 0:03:40.040 --> 0:03:44.560 a difference in that one little part of Atlanta. So 0:03:45.760 --> 0:03:47.880 thankful for silver linings. 0:03:59.000 --> 0:04:01.200 That was a man named Bill him as a young 0:04:01.240 --> 0:04:03.680 man in the eighties, he saw how scared these kids were. 0:04:04.120 --> 0:04:07.000 The victims in this case are the children, and that 0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:10.440 should never be forgotten. Because this story is so complex. 0:04:10.800 --> 0:04:12.960 For years, people have argued whether or not they got 0:04:12.960 --> 0:04:15.840 the right guy. From everyone I've talked to, there's been 0:04:15.880 --> 0:04:18.000 a lot of disagreement over whether Wayne Williams is the 0:04:18.000 --> 0:04:21.400 Atlanta Monster. Many people feel that he's guilty. His stories 0:04:21.480 --> 0:04:24.000 just don't really add up. He fit the FBI profile 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:26.240 to a t, and depending on how you looked at it, 0:04:26.400 --> 0:04:29.080 after he was arrested, the murder stopped. But some people 0:04:29.120 --> 0:04:32.200 seem to think this was a huge conspiracy against Wayne Williams, 0:04:32.560 --> 0:04:34.719 but with very little evidence to back up those claims. 0:04:35.640 --> 0:04:37.800 But the question isn't as simple as did he do it? 0:04:38.120 --> 0:04:40.600 The question is what did he do? Did he kill 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:43.680 Nathaniel Cater and Jimmy ray Paine, the two adults who 0:04:43.720 --> 0:04:47.120 was convicted for Maybe he did, But what about the kids? 0:04:47.360 --> 0:04:49.479 Did he kill the kids too? Did he kill all 0:04:49.560 --> 0:04:52.440 of them? Even though people are still very divided over 0:04:52.440 --> 0:04:55.480 Wayne Williams himself, there's one common thread that everyone seems 0:04:55.480 --> 0:04:57.479 to agree on. It was time for all this to 0:04:57.560 --> 0:04:59.560 end in the city of Atlanta, and someone had to 0:04:59.560 --> 0:05:02.320 go away for this, and Wayne Williams was that guy. 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:05.640 Wayne still claims his innocence, and from our very first 0:05:05.640 --> 0:05:08.760 phone call, he promised to provide strong evidence to prove that. 0:05:09.400 --> 0:05:11.760 I want this podcast to be the final debate over 0:05:11.800 --> 0:05:14.479 Wayne Williams and the Atlanta child murders, And now that 0:05:14.520 --> 0:05:17.000 my investigation is in full swing, I'm going to put 0:05:17.040 --> 0:05:20.960 everything out on the table. If Wayne Williams has anything 0:05:21.000 --> 0:05:23.560 credible to say, now's the time to hear it. 0:05:27.560 --> 0:05:30.760 I've been incarcerated since nineteen eighty one in connection with 0:05:30.839 --> 0:05:34.640 the Atlanta murders. It was a situation that few people 0:05:34.760 --> 0:05:38.719 understood then and today even fewer people understand the truth 0:05:38.720 --> 0:05:41.480 about what happened, and probably even more so about what 0:05:41.600 --> 0:05:42.280 didn't happen. 0:05:43.120 --> 0:05:44.600 Due to the political. 0:05:44.160 --> 0:05:47.039 Climate and the fear and all of the uncertainty about 0:05:47.040 --> 0:05:49.560 what happened, the police and authorities were just anxious to 0:05:49.680 --> 0:05:52.400 arrest anybody that they could, and that person just happened 0:05:52.440 --> 0:05:57.360 to be me. Sadly, it has taken all these years 0:05:57.360 --> 0:06:00.360 for me to finally get the case brought back to 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:02.960 the Four Lights so people can see the truth about 0:06:02.960 --> 0:06:05.400 what happened in fact, and not only am I innocent man, 0:06:05.560 --> 0:06:08.120 but that the people involved in this, the family, it's 0:06:08.200 --> 0:06:16.880 the city, and the nation deserve an answer. One of 0:06:16.960 --> 0:06:19.520 the main objectives for US is to make people aware 0:06:19.640 --> 0:06:23.920 of what really happened during events before the trial as 0:06:23.920 --> 0:06:28.800 well as after the trial, and they continue today. I 0:06:28.800 --> 0:06:31.640 don't think few people realized I was never convicted in 0:06:31.680 --> 0:06:34.360 connection with any of the child murders. I was charged 0:06:34.360 --> 0:06:39.160 for the depths of two adults whose murders were actually unrelated. Furthermore, 0:06:39.320 --> 0:06:41.919 we were prevented from bringing out a lot of evidence 0:06:42.279 --> 0:06:44.799 that could have helped me during the trial. We're talking 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:49.480 about the existence of other suspects. We're talking about physical evidence, 0:06:49.560 --> 0:06:53.880 including fiber evidence from caucasion suspects and others who we 0:06:53.960 --> 0:06:56.240 know were involved in some of these cases, as well 0:06:56.279 --> 0:07:00.240 as false testimony about the synthetic fibers that the yeah 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:08.440 I presented during the trial. I refer not only to 0:07:08.520 --> 0:07:11.320 setting the facts were record straight, but telling of the 0:07:11.360 --> 0:07:14.400 story behind the scenes, about the hurt and the emotional 0:07:14.440 --> 0:07:15.880 pain that ling us to this day. 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:19.040 I've done several. 0:07:18.720 --> 0:07:21.680 Interviews over the years, but none have addressed the full 0:07:21.840 --> 0:07:23.880 context of what this story is about. 0:07:24.240 --> 0:07:27.520 And Atlanta and another BONDI was discovered today but twenty third. 0:07:27.640 --> 0:07:30.920 At Police Task Force headquarters, there are twenty seven faces 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:33.400 on the wall, twenty six murdered, one missing. 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:35.960 We do not know the person or persons that are responsible. 0:07:35.960 --> 0:07:37.480 Therefore, we do not have the money. 0:07:37.520 --> 0:07:40.720 From Tenderfoo TV in Housetiff Works in Atlanta. 0:07:40.880 --> 0:07:44.240 Like eleven other recent victrums in Atlanta, rogers are currently. 0:07:43.960 --> 0:07:44.760 Was a spectator. 0:07:44.920 --> 0:07:48.600 Atlanta is unlikely to catch the killer unless he keeps 0:07:48.640 --> 0:07:49.360 on killing. 0:07:50.040 --> 0:08:02.880 This is Atlanta Monster. According to Wayne Williams, the story 0:08:02.920 --> 0:08:06.280 begins with that infamous night on the James Jackson Parkway Bridge. 0:08:08.320 --> 0:08:11.640 Wayne first described a rather convoluted story about the timing 0:08:11.680 --> 0:08:12.920 sequence of the bridge that night. 0:08:13.760 --> 0:08:17.280 Fia stillman, Yeah, I got it. He's coming towards him stopped. 0:08:18.680 --> 0:08:21.760 That's the time in SeaQuest they testified to the New Court. 0:08:22.800 --> 0:08:27.040 That's the contradiction during that sequest. There's no way any 0:08:27.080 --> 0:08:29.720 car could have been born south on the piege, turn 0:08:29.800 --> 0:08:33.000 into the gravel park lot and turn back north. That's 0:08:33.120 --> 0:08:34.359 absolute possibility. 0:08:35.080 --> 0:08:38.000 He's saying that according to police testimony, the timing doesn't 0:08:38.000 --> 0:08:40.880 make sense. In what he described as a matter of seconds, 0:08:41.160 --> 0:08:44.120 the police recruit below the bridge heard the splash, shine 0:08:44.120 --> 0:08:46.120 his light on the water, didn't see a body and 0:08:46.160 --> 0:08:49.360 only saw ripples. Then radio to the other officers, who 0:08:49.440 --> 0:08:51.679 then saw Wayne in his car turn around in a 0:08:51.720 --> 0:08:54.959 gravel parking lot just moments later, heading the opposite way 0:08:54.960 --> 0:08:55.640 on the bridge. 0:08:56.320 --> 0:09:00.600 That car had to have been traveling the entire time 0:09:00.679 --> 0:09:05.600 of the sequence. Bottom line is there was no splash. 0:09:10.120 --> 0:09:12.520 If you take the bridge out of the equation, Wayne 0:09:12.559 --> 0:09:13.280 Williams is not. 0:09:13.240 --> 0:09:13.960 In prison right. 0:09:14.559 --> 0:09:17.480 This is Vincent Hill, a law enforcement analyst and former 0:09:17.520 --> 0:09:21.000 police officer. But more significantly, Vincent is an expert of 0:09:21.040 --> 0:09:22.559 sorts on Wayne's case. 0:09:22.960 --> 0:09:26.120 If Wayne was not on that bridge, either the case 0:09:26.120 --> 0:09:28.439 would have been solved a different way, or it would 0:09:28.440 --> 0:09:32.200 still be unsolved. Take that bridge out of the equation, 0:09:32.800 --> 0:09:35.360 and what do you have. I guess you can argue 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:38.000 that that had put Wayne next to the body, right, 0:09:38.440 --> 0:09:40.040 I mean, he's on the bridge. 0:09:40.200 --> 0:09:41.000 They hear splash. 0:09:41.040 --> 0:09:43.960 Two days later, there's a body found. 0:09:44.160 --> 0:09:47.240 That morning, while four officers sat quietly under the South 0:09:47.320 --> 0:09:50.640 cop Drive bridge, one of them and Atlanta recruit, heard 0:09:50.679 --> 0:09:51.439 a splash. 0:09:52.000 --> 0:09:53.839 Why do you think they stopped your car that night? 0:09:54.160 --> 0:09:57.160 You gotta remember that was the last night of the steakhout, 0:09:57.480 --> 0:10:01.200 that was the last day they so I'm sure they 0:10:01.240 --> 0:10:04.719 were probably, you know, anxious to stop something. Just make 0:10:04.720 --> 0:10:05.760 an account for the time. 0:10:06.440 --> 0:10:09.560 The police recruit Bob Campbell was stationed below the bridge, 0:10:09.760 --> 0:10:11.679 and he's the only one who heard the splash that night. 0:10:12.160 --> 0:10:15.880 And Campbell probably something probably poundering him, and he probably 0:10:15.920 --> 0:10:18.520 made up the story just to justify the existence of 0:10:18.600 --> 0:10:21.240 being on a stake. The point is that if the 0:10:21.240 --> 0:10:23.520 stamus they said about the stop of what happened in 0:10:23.600 --> 0:10:26.760 the bridge, cockrrect the only one that does not corrected. 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:28.720 That is what Campbell and Jacob said. 0:10:29.080 --> 0:10:31.160 He claimed that most of the FBI statements about the 0:10:31.160 --> 0:10:34.560 bridge were in fact true, except for two major points, 0:10:34.840 --> 0:10:38.080 the first being recruit Bob Campbell's account of the splash 0:10:38.200 --> 0:10:40.840 and the recruit Jacob's accounts of the timing. The second 0:10:40.840 --> 0:10:43.840 major point was over Wayne's strange story about a girl 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:44.880 named Cheryl Johnson. 0:10:45.679 --> 0:10:48.680 The only confusion in the statements was all of the 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:51.400 thing on the telephone nob in Cheryl Johnson. 0:10:51.960 --> 0:10:54.240 He tried to persuade the Jerry he really was out 0:10:54.280 --> 0:10:57.000 near a bridge that night looking for a Cheryl Johnson, 0:10:57.120 --> 0:10:59.160 who still remains a mystery to this trial. 0:10:59.360 --> 0:11:01.120 The Satan played he fabricated the. 0:11:01.120 --> 0:11:03.959 Story, but Williams didn't much from it, claiming the woman 0:11:04.000 --> 0:11:06.440 simply gave him a wrong number and wrong address. 0:11:07.480 --> 0:11:09.440 When the FBI asked what he was doing out there, 0:11:09.760 --> 0:11:11.640 Wayne said he was looking for a woman named Cheryl 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:14.240 Johnson who had scheduled an in person interview with him 0:11:14.240 --> 0:11:16.600 that morning. He told the police he was out checking 0:11:16.600 --> 0:11:19.559 the address that night. Wayne gave police an alleged phone 0:11:19.640 --> 0:11:21.720 number for Cheryl Johnson, but later when they tried to 0:11:21.720 --> 0:11:25.000 call the number, it didn't work. It didn't belong to anyone, 0:11:25.280 --> 0:11:27.920 But Wayne says the FBI called the wrong number and 0:11:27.960 --> 0:11:29.640 the reason was his handwriting. 0:11:31.080 --> 0:11:34.960 The number wasn't that four. You will see when you 0:11:35.000 --> 0:11:38.200 get my riding up on the series was it was 0:11:38.400 --> 0:11:41.400 four to three, four boys and my naves look alike 0:11:41.520 --> 0:11:44.319 because I closed Luke top of them. 0:11:44.840 --> 0:11:48.760 The FBI claimed Cheryl Johnson wasn't real, but Wayne Williams agrees. 0:11:49.600 --> 0:11:53.400 So Cheryl Johnson, when did she originally call you? And 0:11:53.440 --> 0:11:54.199 what did she say? 0:11:55.200 --> 0:11:57.720 Well, well, she she originally did not call me. She 0:11:57.880 --> 0:12:00.360 called my mother and my mother left for no I 0:12:00.520 --> 0:12:04.280 talked to her that they there poor and I and 0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:07.040 I figured she was a frank call tange. We were 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:11.040 doing public auditions of my music company over Entertainment. For 0:12:11.160 --> 0:12:13.600 some of the accidents are because to ask you learned 0:12:13.679 --> 0:12:17.160 on the radio and television stations in the newspapers club, 0:12:17.320 --> 0:12:20.319 you know, in nineteen eighty, you know, the audists were 0:12:20.360 --> 0:12:22.440 all over there your TV. And that's how she found out. 0:12:22.480 --> 0:12:24.520 I got the poon them, and like I said, we 0:12:24.800 --> 0:12:27.800 did probably we took maybe about eight hundred and nine 0:12:27.920 --> 0:12:31.000 hundred calls and probably did we screened those downs here 0:12:31.080 --> 0:12:33.959 my two assistants, and we probably did about one hundred 0:12:34.000 --> 0:12:47.360 and fifty actual interviews or auditions out of that. I 0:12:47.520 --> 0:12:49.640 even tell the police, I said, the only reason I 0:12:49.679 --> 0:12:52.000 went out to check the address group because I felt 0:12:52.120 --> 0:12:54.480 there was a big address. That's why I went out 0:12:54.559 --> 0:12:55.720 to check it in the first place. 0:12:56.400 --> 0:12:58.800 He said, as a talent scout, you received hundreds of 0:12:58.800 --> 0:13:01.240 calls during that time, and that every so often he 0:13:01.240 --> 0:13:04.440 would get a fake caller, and Cheryl Johnson was likely 0:13:04.480 --> 0:13:05.120 one of them. 0:13:05.360 --> 0:13:07.840 And this is the fun to think about, how why 0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:11.880 in the world, if somebody was dealing killing people, why 0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:13.560 would they be doing public cordise. 0:13:13.840 --> 0:13:17.439 That that makes sense, But why was Wayne out checking 0:13:17.440 --> 0:13:20.280 this address at two in the morning when you was 0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:22.240 scheduled to meet with her just a few hours later. 0:13:22.840 --> 0:13:24.120 That never made sense to me. 0:13:24.440 --> 0:13:26.720 I mean me being a forty five year old man. 0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:29.000 If I'm out at two in the morning, if I'm 0:13:29.000 --> 0:13:33.160 not working and I'm looking for someone's house, Let's be honest, 0:13:33.559 --> 0:13:35.000 I know what I'm going to do at two in 0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:38.120 the morning, and it's not the talk record contracts. 0:13:39.600 --> 0:13:41.920 Did the FBI or the police ever find her in 0:13:41.920 --> 0:13:42.360 real life? 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:42.880 No? 0:13:43.400 --> 0:13:47.600 And I told him it's probably place had because I'm 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:49.800 not even sure that's her name. That was just the 0:13:49.920 --> 0:13:52.960 name as she gave. We were doing public budlice, a 0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:55.720 lot of people gave fake names and fake address. That 0:13:55.880 --> 0:13:58.319 was why what I screaming, So I think all the 0:13:58.600 --> 0:14:01.920 hoopla over Cheryl toss his peak. You know, I was 0:14:01.920 --> 0:14:02.840 gonna playing coffee. 0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:08.000 So maybe Wayne was out getting ready to meet someone 0:14:08.040 --> 0:14:12.840 and got lost. I don't know. Wayne likes to embellish things. 0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:16.240 I don't know why. But again, I think that was 0:14:16.280 --> 0:14:19.920 part of Wayne's downfall. Regardless if he told the truth 0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:21.920 or not, I don't think the outcome would have been 0:14:21.960 --> 0:14:24.360 different simply because he was on the bridge. 0:14:29.040 --> 0:14:31.000 Do you regret being on the bridge that night? If 0:14:31.040 --> 0:14:32.480 you could go back and change it, would you not 0:14:32.560 --> 0:14:33.120 go that way? 0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:37.240 Well, paranalymic to you like this, I'm the type of person. Okay, 0:14:38.680 --> 0:14:40.200 I'm liable to change my mind. 0:14:40.360 --> 0:14:40.680 He didn't. 0:14:40.680 --> 0:14:42.960 Given time. Everybody said, well do you think it was 0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:45.600 a conspiracy, but they ought to get you ahead of that. No, 0:14:45.960 --> 0:14:49.800 that was a conspiracy only after I became a suspect 0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:52.800 and they have forgotten it involved. Nobody knew I was 0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:56.280 going to take that route home, not even met that night. 0:14:56.400 --> 0:14:59.320 That was a spur of the minute. The only thing 0:14:59.400 --> 0:15:02.360 I regret was going out period that night. You know 0:15:02.400 --> 0:15:04.280 I should have just took my butt to be it, 0:15:04.360 --> 0:15:05.040 agreed to it. 0:15:05.080 --> 0:15:07.840 The more do you think that if you didn't go 0:15:07.920 --> 0:15:09.640 out that night that you would not be. 0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:13.400 In jail right now, absolutely no question. They had to 0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:16.560 ask the same questions that you're asking me right now. 0:15:16.760 --> 0:15:20.840 I wouldn't be bottom line, living in Fort Hood, Texas. 0:15:20.880 --> 0:15:23.480 My dad was military, you know. Even then that story 0:15:23.640 --> 0:15:27.640 was national news about these black kids being murdered in Atlanta. 0:15:28.200 --> 0:15:30.440 I remember my mom to this day telling me not 0:15:30.520 --> 0:15:33.400 to go outside, you know, past dark, even in Fort Hood, 0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:36.880 Texas and Colleen, because they were killing these little kids. 0:15:37.720 --> 0:15:40.920 Wayne Williams got arrested and got convicted, and that was 0:15:41.160 --> 0:15:42.320 pretty much it, and. 0:15:42.240 --> 0:15:45.320 Supposedly the murder stopped. And that's what I took it for. 0:15:45.400 --> 0:15:47.320 You know, as a small child, you know, it's just 0:15:47.960 --> 0:15:50.400 you trust what the police say, you trust what the 0:15:50.440 --> 0:15:53.080 courts say, and that that was pretty much it, you know. 0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:56.480 But as I got older, especially when I became a 0:15:56.520 --> 0:16:00.120 police officer and a private investigator, and I realized this 0:16:00.200 --> 0:16:04.640 keyword called evidence, then my mindset started changing about the 0:16:04.760 --> 0:16:07.640 entire case. First, we can't say that the child murders 0:16:07.640 --> 0:16:10.840 were solved because Wayne was convicted of killing Nathaniel Cater 0:16:10.960 --> 0:16:15.120 and Jimmy ray Payne, which were adults. So we still 0:16:15.160 --> 0:16:18.320 have all of these child murders basically unsolved because you 0:16:18.360 --> 0:16:20.440 can't say it solved if you only convicted him of 0:16:20.520 --> 0:16:24.160 killing two people. Wayne's a very intelligent guy. I think 0:16:24.560 --> 0:16:28.000 Wayne's downfall back then was he embellished a lot. 0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:29.880 Wayne wanted to be the center of attention. 0:16:30.400 --> 0:16:34.040 He was calling his own press conferences, which just made 0:16:34.080 --> 0:16:35.640 him a bigger target than the media. 0:16:35.840 --> 0:16:36.000 Right. 0:16:36.360 --> 0:16:38.280 You know a lot of people that were innocent at 0:16:38.320 --> 0:16:39.600 this would have just said I had nothing to do 0:16:39.640 --> 0:16:43.600 with it, and that's it. But I'm convinced it was 0:16:43.880 --> 0:16:45.600 something totally different that happened. 0:16:46.120 --> 0:16:48.920 Williams bluntly stated the police version of the now famous 0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:52.160 bridge incident was wrong, a lie. He claimed he wasn't 0:16:52.200 --> 0:16:54.920 driving slow, that he didn't turn around in a parking 0:16:54.960 --> 0:16:57.160 lot next to the bridge, that he did not throw 0:16:57.200 --> 0:17:00.320 anything into the river. The state contends that louds splash 0:17:00.440 --> 0:17:03.280 was the body of Nathaniel Cater heading the water. Although 0:17:03.320 --> 0:17:05.800 prosecutors had most of the pieces that night in May, 0:17:06.040 --> 0:17:06.880 it's still lacked. 0:17:06.680 --> 0:17:08.080 The essential part of the puzzle. 0:17:08.480 --> 0:17:11.639 Someone actually seen William's car stopped on the bridge, or 0:17:11.680 --> 0:17:14.720 better yet, the suspect throwing a body from the structure. 0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:18.320 Could be something could be, nothing could have been a 0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:20.880 bird taking off. It could have been a beaver, could 0:17:20.880 --> 0:17:24.760 have been anything. You got police down there with flashlights immediately, 0:17:25.600 --> 0:17:29.800 and they see nothing. So that would suggest that Daniel 0:17:29.840 --> 0:17:32.640 Cator's body as soon as it hit the water, just 0:17:32.840 --> 0:17:37.480 floated out of sight like a speedboat splash. You shine 0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:41.560 your lights, now I don't see anything. Why not if 0:17:41.600 --> 0:17:43.440 it floated down the river and you found it two 0:17:43.480 --> 0:17:46.520 days later, why wouldn't you see it as it's floating 0:17:46.560 --> 0:17:50.720 down the river right after its splashed. If you heard 0:17:50.720 --> 0:17:53.320 the splash and you thought it was a body, why 0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:55.359 didn't you send divers down there immediately. 0:17:56.760 --> 0:17:59.879 Doctor Blackwelder was there during the trial, so I asked him. 0:18:00.119 --> 0:18:03.040 He knew about the splash, and. 0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:07.640 The cadet that was under the bridge heard a splash, 0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:10.399 and it had flashlights and all that shine around, but 0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:12.520 they never saw anything, so they don't They said it 0:18:12.560 --> 0:18:15.040 could have been a beaver because there were beavers in 0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:15.480 that river. 0:18:15.880 --> 0:18:17.119 It could have been a beaver. 0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:19.480 Slapping its tail on the water, or it could have 0:18:19.520 --> 0:18:21.600 been a body that was throwing off the bridge into 0:18:21.640 --> 0:18:21.960 the water. 0:18:22.280 --> 0:18:24.600 But he heard a splash. 0:18:24.920 --> 0:18:27.640 I asked Popcorn with the FBI, what was his take? 0:18:29.040 --> 0:18:32.960 Two cadets under the bridge, two regular offices, and chase counts. 0:18:33.680 --> 0:18:36.240 They were intense underneath the bridge. And the guy that 0:18:36.400 --> 0:18:39.080 heard the splash had been a high school swimmer and 0:18:39.119 --> 0:18:41.760 he knew what the sound of a body hitting the water, 0:18:41.960 --> 0:18:46.199 and he said, that's a body hitting the water. There 0:18:46.320 --> 0:18:48.960 was a splat, because you know, if you jump up 0:18:49.000 --> 0:18:51.720 the diving board and you spread eagle and hit the water, 0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:54.840 you splat. And that's what he heard. 0:18:55.359 --> 0:18:57.320 And he looked, you don't say what was in the water, 0:18:57.320 --> 0:18:58.639 and did never could see anything. 0:18:58.440 --> 0:18:59.240 Floating in the water. 0:18:59.760 --> 0:19:04.040 And they brought a hydrologist in from the corp of Engineers, 0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:06.719 and somebody testified that there were a lot of There 0:19:06.720 --> 0:19:09.520 were a lot of beavers in the river. Hipopsis said, 0:19:09.680 --> 0:19:12.320 or water ill make a splash, So a. 0:19:12.480 --> 0:19:15.760 Body hating the water sounds like it would be much 0:19:15.840 --> 0:19:16.760 louder than beaver. 0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:17.920 We've done that. 0:19:17.600 --> 0:19:17.800 I did. 0:19:18.040 --> 0:19:19.240 We did that when I was astrade. 0:19:19.280 --> 0:19:22.080 We would throw bodies they would be dummies, but wouldn't 0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:24.400 make sure they didn't wade to shine them out by 0:19:24.520 --> 0:19:27.359 using sand and things like that, because the beaver's saddle 0:19:27.480 --> 0:19:28.920 is flat, and were just like hit it with a 0:19:29.000 --> 0:19:31.440 boat paddle and the body wouldn't. 0:19:33.040 --> 0:19:36.760 If it was that the inucator at his stature, wouldn't 0:19:36.760 --> 0:19:37.720 someone else have heard that. 0:19:39.560 --> 0:19:40.560 It's like going to a. 0:19:40.520 --> 0:19:41.120 Pool, right. 0:19:41.720 --> 0:19:44.560 You may be twenty yards away, but you can hear 0:19:44.640 --> 0:19:49.520 people diving off the diving board. So this one guy 0:19:49.880 --> 0:19:52.920 is the only one that hurt us. It's not even logical. 0:19:54.119 --> 0:19:57.840 Wasn't he like one fifty one sixty? It's a loud splash. Man, 0:19:58.480 --> 0:20:00.880 If they're spread out the way they say were, there's 0:20:00.960 --> 0:20:02.600 just no way only one person heard it. 0:20:04.600 --> 0:20:08.960 That was a warning signal to say that danger was around. 0:20:09.080 --> 0:20:09.760 That's the same me. 0:20:10.760 --> 0:20:14.000 Weave a state refuge here whenever they are alarmed. 0:20:23.600 --> 0:20:25.760 I can't help but think a splash from a beaver's tail, 0:20:26.000 --> 0:20:27.919 which found a whole lot different from a splash from 0:20:27.920 --> 0:20:30.840 a fully grown human body. So I decided to test 0:20:30.880 --> 0:20:33.359 it out. The team at house Stuff Works helped me 0:20:33.400 --> 0:20:36.240 put together the whole experiment. The best option we had 0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:39.800 was rescue Randy. Randy is an adult sized mannequin used 0:20:39.800 --> 0:20:43.240 for simulations and training for emergency person though, so when dropped, 0:20:43.400 --> 0:20:46.280 Randy would fall like a human body. Accurate weight distribution 0:20:46.400 --> 0:20:49.320 and everything. How do we try to recreate this sound? 0:20:50.760 --> 0:20:54.160 So what we want to do is drop something off 0:20:54.600 --> 0:20:59.560 the James Jackson Parkway Bridge, something that is roughly the 0:20:59.600 --> 0:21:03.840 same size and shape of a human body, to see 0:21:04.160 --> 0:21:06.439 what kind of sound it makes, how loud it is, 0:21:06.480 --> 0:21:08.080 if we can hear it. If what we're trying to 0:21:08.119 --> 0:21:11.520 do is find something that we can drop off the bridge. 0:21:12.080 --> 0:21:14.040 And we've been kind of racking our brains trying to 0:21:14.040 --> 0:21:17.280 figure out how to approximate a human body. It's not 0:21:17.359 --> 0:21:20.359 something you can just go to the hardware store and find. 0:21:20.400 --> 0:21:23.040 And we've actually gone through many iterations of this. Like 0:21:23.040 --> 0:21:24.760 originally we were thinking we might want to try to 0:21:24.920 --> 0:21:28.080 actually build a body out of like wooden dowels and 0:21:28.200 --> 0:21:31.320 duct tape and like packing material, and we got kind 0:21:31.359 --> 0:21:32.960 of far down that path, but then decided, you know, 0:21:33.000 --> 0:21:34.520