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Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to

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Speaker 1: the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so

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Speaker 1: much for tuning in. Let's uh, this is a special

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Speaker 1: one for us, Noel. Let's start by as always commending

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Speaker 1: our super producer, mister Max tally Ho Williams. That's mister

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Speaker 1: Noel brown Day.

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Speaker 2: I don't have a tricorn hat on THO films.

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Speaker 3: Most people don't, I think statistically, I guess that's true.

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Speaker 1: That may be a fad that has uh temporarily waned.

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Speaker 1: I am Ben Bullet and Noel, you and I were

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Speaker 1: talking a while back about some of our favorite guests.

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Speaker 1: We were talking about some of our favorite things to explore,

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Speaker 1: and one name kept popping up. H and Max you

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Speaker 1: were you were talking with us about this as well.

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Speaker 1: It is the legendary the infamous AJ Bahamas Jacobs, as

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Speaker 1: the FBI is want to call them.

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Speaker 3: I don't understand, and neither do you AJ, and neither

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Speaker 3: will you Ridiculous Historians. But that's okay, because that's what

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Speaker 3: makes a really good mysterious nickname.

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Speaker 2: Have you been to the Bahamas?

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Speaker 4: I have been to the Bahamas.

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Speaker 2: That's that's it.

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Speaker 4: I don't want to say anymore of what I did there.

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Speaker 2: But uh, what happens in the Bahamas stays in the boom.

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Speaker 1: There you go.

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Speaker 4: I am honored and delighted to be back and uh

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Speaker 4: and have this mysterious nickname and have my tricorn hat.

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Speaker 4: No judgment against Noel or Max for not wearing the tricorn.

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Speaker 2: But I just don't even know where one procures such

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Speaker 2: a garment.

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Speaker 4: Well mine, I had to go order it online like

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Speaker 4: a fancy one because those.

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Speaker 1: One was technically sideways. Okay, oh dear, there we go.

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Speaker 2: There you go. Now you're very Brotherhood of the Wolf

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Speaker 2: the course, thank you? Is it felt? What is this material?

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Speaker 2: It looks like a real robust material.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, the real the old ones were made of beaver

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Speaker 4: felt beaver So I don't know one felt a beaver there.

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Speaker 1: Very carefully damn it.

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Speaker 4: Yes so, but I think mine is just yes, regular

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Speaker 4: old non beaver material. I don't know what about Ben's,

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Speaker 4: but I got mine from a colonial style haberd dasher

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Speaker 4: that I went ye old internet and found.

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Speaker 2: They probably do a lot of reenactment business.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, no, that's where that's right. This is from

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Speaker 4: when I joined the Third New Jersey Regiment of Revolutionary

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Speaker 4: War re Enactors. This was part of my required kit,

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Speaker 4: as they call it.

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Speaker 1: As part of your journey in the creation of your work,

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Speaker 1: the year of living constitutionally. That's correct.

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Speaker 4: What you all were delightful enough to come to my

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Speaker 4: book party about a year ago, and we, uh, we

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Speaker 4: had a good time. We had some we burned some candles,

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Speaker 4: We wrote with the quill pens. We had muskets, we

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Speaker 4: can wielded muskets. We had some mead or actually I

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Speaker 4: think it was uh, what is that? What did we have?

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Speaker 2: Oh, mold wine wine. No, it was.

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Speaker 1: Now we have to say a j First off, you're

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Speaker 1: one of the busiest guys we know. Thank you so

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Speaker 1: much for coming on the show with us. For anyone

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Speaker 1: who is somehow unfamiliar with this, you are a podcaster

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Speaker 1: as well. You have an excellent show called The Puzzler.

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Speaker 1: Before we get into our exploration today, could you tell

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Speaker 1: us a little bit about The Puzzler and just maybe

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Speaker 1: some family time. What's been going on with you, how

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Speaker 1: your folks, et cetera.

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Speaker 4: Well, thank you for asking. Yes, The Puzzler is a

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Speaker 4: podcast produced by iHeartMedia, and we have celebrity guests such

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Speaker 4: as Oh my gosh, Noel Brown and Ben Bolin And.

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Speaker 3: No one's ever called me that before in my life.

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Speaker 3: How dare you, sir? I am anonymous.

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Speaker 4: You called me legendary, so well, I'm alive.

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Speaker 2: That's accurate.

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Speaker 4: And we play basically, we play some word games, nerdy

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Speaker 4: word games with them, and we did some history ones

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Speaker 4: with both of you. I believe we had, for instance,

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Speaker 4: a character who had no idea. He knew the names

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Speaker 4: of historical events but didn't know what they were. So

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Speaker 4: he talked about one where it was a beret uh

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Speaker 4: and a a bottle of white wine that went around

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Speaker 4: in circles, and that's the French Revolution.

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Speaker 1: There.

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Speaker 4: There is still no pun left behind, as they say

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Speaker 4: on so this our puzzle podcast, really no pun left behind.

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Speaker 4: So that's good and uh oh. The only other exciting

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Speaker 4: well I shouldn't say that. One other exciting thing is

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Speaker 4: my son next year is going to Emory uh University.

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Speaker 2: So I'm I mean, you're gonna come visit, You're gonna hang.

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Speaker 4: I'm going to be hanging in Atlanta. Would you'll be

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Speaker 4: sick of me?

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Speaker 3: You let it take you to our Atlanta equivalent of

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Speaker 3: Barney greengrass, it's called it's called Goldbergs. It's not quite

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Speaker 3: as good but as solid. Would you say, guys, would

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Speaker 3: you say it's pretty good? It's I would say no, Barney.

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Speaker 1: Head and I great, hard true, but it's it's a

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Speaker 1: nice way. And you know, we were again we were

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Speaker 1: chatting about you singing your praises and said, when's the

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Speaker 1: last time we had this guy on the show. What

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Speaker 1: would aj want to talk about? And we pitched a

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Speaker 1: couple of ideas to you, like a well three or four,

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Speaker 1: which is more than a couple. And then you wrote

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Speaker 1: back to us and you immediately said, ridiculous clothing, fads,

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Speaker 1: controversy of fashion throughout history. I have some thoughts indeed,

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Speaker 1: and maybe we started this way because you are also

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Speaker 1: what we call our research associate for our exploration here.

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Speaker 1: Since we're wearing hats, could you tell us a little

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Speaker 1: bit like hats are a functional thing, but they also

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Speaker 1: become quite they can be quite flamboyant. They can be

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Speaker 1: quite a statement more so than a like a piece

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Speaker 1: of functional gear.

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Speaker 3: Everything about that, guys, like the moment the person that

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Speaker 3: came up with the idea, where like you know what,

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Speaker 3: maybe this maybe this could be more. Maybe I'll put

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Speaker 3: a feather in it, and all of a sudden, I'll

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Speaker 3: be a fancy.

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Speaker 4: Man, right, And there is a whole thing about the

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Speaker 4: feather and the macaroni and Yankee doodle. And yes, I

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Speaker 4: have always shocked when I see photographs from like the

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Speaker 4: nineteen twenties and every man and most women are wearing hats.

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Speaker 4: And I believe JFK had a lot to do with

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Speaker 4: getting rid of that trend because he went hatless. And

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Speaker 4: I don't know. I know you have a conspiracy podcast

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Speaker 4: as well, but I'm wondering if anyone has ever posed

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Speaker 4: that the Haberdashers of America were the ones who were

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Speaker 4: most angry at JFK for ruining their business. I don't know,

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Speaker 4: it's just the thought. Big hat, Yeah, big hat exactly.

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Speaker 4: But yes, the hats are and they have an amazing history.

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Speaker 4: And what I decided to focus on in my research

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Speaker 4: were controversial clothes, so literal crimes, literal fashion crimes, and

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Speaker 4: clothes that led to UH laws or rebellions or reform

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Speaker 4: or riots. There are several riot clothing based riots, So

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Speaker 4: hats are a good way to start, you know, start

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Speaker 4: at the top.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, let's do it. Work our way down to the sock.

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Speaker 2: That's it.

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Speaker 4: I do have some shoe related not so much suck.

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Speaker 3: It's okay, Well there's a shoe, there's a sock, hopefully

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Speaker 3: unless you're an animal.

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Speaker 1: Or wearing flip flops. But also Atlanta is the home

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Speaker 1: of flip flops and socks.

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Speaker 2: So much talk about a statement piece.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that could cause some some riots. I know.

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Speaker 3: It's like when people saw the rights of Spring, you know,

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Speaker 3: and they just freaked out.

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Speaker 1: They couldn't handle it. So let's I love, We're going

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Speaker 1: a little bit matt cap. Perhaps nobody left behind, thank you, sir.

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Speaker 1: Let's start, as you said at the top, you found

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Speaker 1: in your research that there were quote bird hats that

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Speaker 1: started the environmental movement.

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Speaker 4: Yes, they helped to kick off the animal rights and

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Speaker 4: environmental movement because this was in the late eighteen hundreds,

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Speaker 4: and women loved their feathered hats. They loved these fancy

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Speaker 4: parrot feathers, egret plumes, herons, birds of paradise, and they

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Speaker 4: were very expensive. It was hard to get them. Egret

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Speaker 4: plumes were worth twice their weight in gold. And then

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Speaker 4: they decided, well, feathers are good, but why not just

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Speaker 4: go for it and put the whole bird on top

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Speaker 4: of the hat. There were Taxa Dirmy. Women would wear

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Speaker 4: these taxa dermied full birds, owls, egrets right on top

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Speaker 4: of their head and it's insane. If you google the images,

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Speaker 4: it is bizarre.

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Speaker 1: It's like the.

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Speaker 2: Full hat, but also been bird hats.

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Speaker 4: Around the neck. They would have a bird around the wrist.

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Speaker 4: So it was a huge status symbol. But there were

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Speaker 4: a couple people who found it a little offensive because

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Speaker 4: they were killing literally five million birds a year to

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Speaker 4: get these hats. So there were these two women who

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Speaker 4: were society women in Boston, Harriet Heminway and Minna now

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Speaker 4: I'm looking Blackmair last name. They started a group in

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Speaker 4: nineteen oh five, the first Audubon National Audubon Society, was

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Speaker 4: to fight against these hats and they it took off.

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Speaker 4: It struck a chord, and ten years later they were

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Speaker 4: able to get a law passed, or five years later,

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Speaker 4: the Audubon Plumage Law that protected birds from the depredations

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Speaker 4: of the plume industry. As one source put it, and yeah,

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Speaker 4: it was it was fascinating to see that this was

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Speaker 4: what kicked off the Audubon society, which then became a

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Speaker 4: major player in the environmental movement.

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Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, the National Audubon Society here in the States

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Speaker 1: is still, as you said, very much active, right, And

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Speaker 1: I think that is a bit of hidden history, the

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Speaker 1: idea that you would see this wholesale slaughter of avian

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Speaker 1: life to have people wearing look and I don't want

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Speaker 1: to sound like a jerk, you guys, I might I'm

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Speaker 1: shallow enough that I might have a different opinion if

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Speaker 1: the hats did not look.

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Speaker 2: As goofy as they do.

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Speaker 1: Like, if they looked cool, I might say, yeah, hear

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Speaker 1: us out.

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Speaker 3: You know, well, yeah, it's kind of come full circle,

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Speaker 3: and now there are bird hats that are actually meant

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Speaker 3: to preserve avian life, in the form of the quite

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Speaker 3: bizarre falcon sex hat.

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Speaker 2: If you remember about.

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Speaker 1: This, it's key for falconry. It helps endangered birds reproduce.

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Speaker 1: It's actually one of the primary reasons you might remember

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Speaker 1: I was talking about this few years back. You might

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Speaker 1: remember it's one of the reasons that I am not

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Speaker 1: an out active falconer because the hat is the hat

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Speaker 1: helps the birds reproduce by having you know, their human body,

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Speaker 1: their falconer wear it and the bird flies onto the

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Speaker 1: hat and mounts it, and he insiminates the hat.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm going to read a little quick blurb here

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Speaker 3: from a falconer on Reddit or a short explanation of

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Speaker 3: why this is the thing. He says.

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Speaker 2: I don't get it either.

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Speaker 4: I don't know hat. I didn't know hats could get what.

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Speaker 3: Happens to the insemination, like it just hangs out in

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Speaker 3: the hat. By the way, the hats are silly looking.

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Speaker 3: They're sort of rubberized, little gritted.

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Speaker 1: They look like they have suction cups on them.

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Speaker 4: Kind of silly to you, but super hot.

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Speaker 1: They're super hot. Ten no notes say the falcons yep.

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Speaker 3: Falcons, as a reddit or tree Tree nineteen eighty four

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Speaker 3: puts it, are often imprinted on humans for various reasons,

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Speaker 3: so basically, they're sexually attracted to people. Breeders take the

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Speaker 3: reverse role of whatever sex the imprinted falcon is and

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Speaker 3: play out the courtship ritual, including bows and chirps and

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Speaker 3: presenting food. If you've never seen birds mate, the male

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Speaker 3: climbs on top of the female and then they rub

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Speaker 3: Kloika's Humans obviously don't have that hardware. But after courting

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Speaker 3: the male birds will still try to get on top

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Speaker 3: and do his thing, hence falcon breeding hats. This is

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Speaker 3: the reason I stopped wanting to be a breeder. Hope

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Speaker 3: this was informative.

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Speaker 1: For more information, check out Daily's eye geis from a

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Speaker 1: few years back, because that was I think that's a

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Speaker 1: surprise to a lot of people who are getting into falconry.

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Speaker 1: But as as you found AJD the concept of controversial hats,

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Speaker 1: I love the I love what you set up there

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Speaker 1: and all that, that cycle of hurting birds and then

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Speaker 1: helping birds. But we know that hats have also led to,

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Speaker 1: as you so beautifully foreshadowed aj absolute chaos in the streets.

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 4: Well, first of all, I love the falcon breeding hat,

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Speaker 4: so thank you for that. I will never forget it.

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Speaker 1: Watch out, so one's birthday is on the way statistically

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Speaker 1: all the time.

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Speaker 3: Why would you do that to Age's fair enough?

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Speaker 2: I don't know if you're aware I mentioned this from

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Speaker 2: time to time.

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Speaker 1: I have.

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Speaker 3: I have long running fear of birds, so the idea

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Speaker 3: of the taxidermy bird hat is particularly important to me.

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Speaker 4: All right, scratching it off your Christmas list right now?

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Speaker 2: Thank you. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: One of the most memorable hat history happenings. Hey, I

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Speaker 4: don't know alliterations. You love that habit daring, do habitashery

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Speaker 4: or daring?

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Speaker 2: Don't you know? It's up to you.

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Speaker 1: This was the.

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Speaker 4: Straw hat riot of nineteen twenty two. It's just such

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Speaker 4: a bizarre and delightful well not delightful for the people involved,

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Speaker 4: but looking back, it was just so bizarre. New York

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Speaker 4: City Society had this rule that you should stop wearing

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Speaker 4: straw hats. Straw hats were for the summer, not for

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Speaker 4: the fall. And these are the flat top straw hats,

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Speaker 4: sort of boaters, sometimes called yep.

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Speaker 3: It was a little band of fabric around them, usually

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Speaker 3: right exactly.

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Speaker 4: And there was actually a day you were supposed to

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Speaker 4: stop wearing September fifteen was called felt hat Day, okay,

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Speaker 4: And if you wore your straw hat after that, you

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Speaker 4: were opening yourself up to some real trouble because there

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Speaker 4: was a trend this was in the early nineteen hundreds

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Speaker 4: of people they would knock your straw hat off your

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Speaker 4: head and stomp on it.

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Speaker 3: Guys, there is nothing more offensive than someone, even in jest,

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Speaker 3: pulling knocking your hat off of your head. It is

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Speaker 3: what the drag community would refer to you as having

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Speaker 3: your wig snatched off. It is an act of violence,

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Speaker 3: no matter how it occurs and what spirit right.

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Speaker 4: And then they got a little more violent, like as

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Speaker 4: it reached its height in nineteen twenty two, people would

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Speaker 4: they would not only knock the hat off, but then

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Speaker 4: they would beat the crap out of you for wearing it.

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Speaker 2: Yee.

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Speaker 1: So this is like when this is when people who

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Speaker 1: have anger issues take pinching someone on Saint Patti's Day

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Speaker 1: too far. Hey, I've got a question here, and I

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Speaker 1: think it's one that a lot of us are are

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Speaker 1: asking to ourselves as we play along at home. Why

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Speaker 1: is there any real specificity on September fifteenth? Because it

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Speaker 1: reminds me of like not wearing white after labor. It

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Speaker 1: feels like it's somewhat arbitrary, as a lot of fashion is.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it was totally the arbitrary. In fact, originally it

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Speaker 4: was September first, and then they moved it. They decided

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Speaker 4: to be lax and move it to September fifteenth, but

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Speaker 4: people took it very seriously and it culminated in this

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Speaker 4: nineteen twenty two riot that lasted eight days, which is insane.

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Speaker 4: So it started when some of youths, that's what the

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Speaker 4: history books call them, youths, tried to take off some

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Speaker 4: hats from dock workers. Dock workers were not amused, turned

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Speaker 4: into a brawl, and then it just escalated. There were

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Speaker 4: apparently at one point a thousand, a mob of a

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Speaker 4: thousand hat haters knocking off hats on Amsterdam Avenue in

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Speaker 4: New York and beating people up. They had these wooden

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Speaker 4: sticks with nails on the end so that they could

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Speaker 4: hook the hat and get it off more efficiently.

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Speaker 2: That's kind of a fun little prank.

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Speaker 3: Can you imagine doing it like over a fence, you know,

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Speaker 3: having a string attached to a dollar bill, you know,

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Speaker 3: and drinking us too.

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Speaker 1: Far, you know, l through the crowd of the hat

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Speaker 1: or whatever.

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Speaker 4: Now either and it's not as fun, but yeah, so

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Speaker 4: it I mean, it eventually died down, but eight days

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Speaker 4: of this people were arrested injured, And it's just such

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Speaker 4: a bizarre little corner of history. And it's not the

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Speaker 4: only related riot.

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Speaker 3: I was going to ask, you've got a little related

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Speaker 3: note here about the zoot suit ryot And I really

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Speaker 3: only know that because of the cherry popping daddies. Seminal

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Speaker 3: nineteen nineties swing hit when there was like the Brian

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Speaker 3: setz Or Orchestra. There was a moment the squirrel nut Zippers,

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Speaker 3: kind of old timey music that was like being played

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Speaker 3: on TRL that stands for Total Request Live if anyone forgets.

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Speaker 2: Lest we forget.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, what was the actual thing where the I

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Speaker 3: always picture dudes in big hats ands loose zoot suits

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Speaker 3: just brawling in the streets.

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Speaker 2: But what set it off?

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Speaker 4: Well, this was in nineteen forty three, in June, and

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Speaker 4: it's called the zoot suit ryot and zuit suits. As

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Speaker 4: you mentioned, there were these often colorful, but they had

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Speaker 4: wide shoulders, big lapels, banky pants, and they were originally

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Speaker 4: pioneered by by black men and then they were taken

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Speaker 4: up by Latino men and it became sort of a.

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Speaker 2: White people took it eventually, right well they.

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Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, well the white people got very angry

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Speaker 4: at the Latino So it was a race based This

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Speaker 4: was a race based ryot.

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Speaker 1: Like marijuana mattiness type of stuff.

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Speaker 4: It was about the same air era, that's right. And

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Speaker 4: so the white this was in Los Angeles. The white

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Speaker 4: Angelino's attacked the mostly Mexican people who were wearing these

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Speaker 4: zoot suits, and they had an excuse. Often these riots

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Speaker 4: have an excuse. The white people said it was World

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Speaker 4: War two and that they were these zoot suits were

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Speaker 4: unpatriot because they were using too much fabric.

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Speaker 3: I remember this, is there maybe even a sense that

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Speaker 3: they're a little too Italian?

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Speaker 2: You know?

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Speaker 4: Interesting?

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Speaker 3: I do wonder, I mean, like, it just seems like

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Speaker 3: that kind of fashion is more associated with Europe. I

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Speaker 3: just wonder if there was a certain inherent bias around

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Speaker 3: that as well, maybe not just conjecturing from.

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Speaker 1: What I understand, that might be a piece of it,

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Speaker 1: because if I recall correctly, one of the big issues

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Speaker 1: that was sort of the public rationale for these acts

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Speaker 1: of violence, it was the idea, like you were saying, Aja,

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Speaker 1: that it was un American in a time of rations. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that makes sense to be flexing so hard with fabric.

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Speaker 1: That Look, every trend reaches this sort of diminishing return

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Speaker 1: where it becomes too extensive, or it goes far too

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Speaker 1: it goes a little too far along the spectrum of

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Speaker 1: cutting edge fashion. So it is technically true that some

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Speaker 1: of the suits of the time could have been you know,

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Speaker 1: made into one and a half regular size suits. But

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Speaker 1: I don't think that means they're at all, you know,

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Speaker 1: some hidden fifth column of anti American activity, you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean. I don't think it's time for red scare.

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Speaker 1: So it does sound like they're justifying racism and violent

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Speaker 1: action in in already very tense environments, right exactly.

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Speaker 4: I think there were probably bigger threats to America.

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Speaker 1: At that point. Maybe you don't think who are we?

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Speaker 4: But actually that can I segue back to hats for

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Speaker 4: a second, means this idea of size actually plays a

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Speaker 4: part in several other controversies. One of my favorite fashion

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Speaker 4: crimes was this occurred in seventeen nine in London, and

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Speaker 4: there was a man who was arrested. His name was

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Speaker 4: mister Heatherington. We don't know that his first name. He

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Speaker 4: was arrested and put in jail bond with five hundred pounds,

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Speaker 4: so that's that's real. His crime was wearing a huge,

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Speaker 4: tall silk hat. And the article in the London Gazette

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Speaker 4: says that this tall structure with shiny luster was calculated

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Speaker 4: to frighten timid people.

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Speaker 2: And in fear of the hat that hat oh.

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Speaker 4: Well, apparently it was so tall that several women fainted

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Speaker 4: at the unusual site. Can you imagine children screamed this

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Speaker 4: was from the paper dog natural. One person was thrown

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Speaker 4: down by the crowd and broke his right arm. So

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Speaker 4: for these reasons, the defendant was seized by the guards.

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Speaker 4: So I just love that. I mean, a tall hat,

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Speaker 4: like you said, I forget whether it was it was

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Speaker 4: which one of you said that the right of Spring

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Speaker 4: that Servinsky.

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Speaker 2: It just freaked them out.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it was a piece of music that didn't quite

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Speaker 4: harmonize and people were so upset that they rioted. And

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Speaker 4: I love that things that could make people riot in

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Speaker 4: the past, where tall hats and atonal music.

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Speaker 1: I also I love the essummation and also without body shaving.

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Speaker 1: Iind of want to see a picture of mister Heatherington's

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Speaker 1: face because I don't you know what I mean, Like,

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Speaker 1: there are I'm sure people who are uncomfortable with headgear

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Speaker 1: and headwear and all that sort of stuff, But it

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Speaker 1: feels like there's more to the story behind this guy

401
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Speaker 1: in his top hat, like in the in the excellent

402
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Speaker 1: limited series Taboo. If Everybody's familiar fan, Yeah.

403
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Speaker 3: I was good with Tom Hardy about what's it is

404
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:05,880
Speaker 3: there about the East India Trading Company is the big

405
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Speaker 3: bad and he's this dude that has like gone disappeared

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Speaker 3: for a long time, and he's been living with some

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Speaker 3: sort of I believe Amazonian tribe and he's learned all

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Speaker 3: this like kind of witchcraft kind of stuff and he

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Speaker 3: comes back and.

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Speaker 2: Wreaks havoc on the man in Victoria in London. It's good.

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Speaker 1: And he does the entire thing in a tall hat,

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Speaker 1: very tall, but it is, it is, and it's one

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Speaker 1: of those tall, those top hats. The vertically I guess

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Speaker 1: we'll say vertically accelerated hats are something that I've always

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Speaker 1: wondered about, like will they come back? I believe Farrell

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Speaker 1: did a very large like Park Ranger meets Cowboy kind

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Speaker 1: of hat.

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Speaker 3: Almost like a tricorn hat kind of Yeah. I do

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Speaker 3: have to wonder. I mean, when I think about the

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Speaker 3: tall top hat too, you're I think you might have

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Speaker 3: been getting to this bend asking about the dude's face.

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Speaker 3: Is it may maybe an attempt to draw attention away

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Speaker 3: from one's face because you've got this massive thing, you.

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Speaker 2: Know, lumbering over you.

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Speaker 3: I do one maybe he had an unsightly mole and

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Speaker 3: he was just very insecure and wanted people to look

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Speaker 3: at his top hat rather than his face. But then

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Speaker 3: at the end of the day, the tall top hat

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Speaker 3: does guide your gaze down to the face eventually.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think a tall top hat for a lot

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Speaker 1: of people can just make you look shorter. So I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure what the We're not sure of the calculus.

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Speaker 1: We do know we love the name and aj this

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Speaker 1: sounds like we don't have a ton of follow up

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Speaker 1: on this guy, like when he got out, he just

436
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Speaker 1: got five right, this was.

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Speaker 4: This was the only article about him. Unfortunately, I read

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Speaker 4: about it in a great book called Dress Codes by

439
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:52,240
Speaker 4: Richard Thompson Ford. Two quick things. I don't want it

440
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:54,200
Speaker 4: to rail us, but you mentioned.

441
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 2: Oh rail us.

442
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:59,240
Speaker 1: Please continue unsightly moles.

443
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,560
Speaker 4: I remember reading when I first read the Encyclopedia, they

444
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 4: held a whole section on patches, especially in France, so

445
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:09,800
Speaker 4: they the moles were not considered unsightly. They would you,

446
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 4: people would pay good money for these fake moles, and

447
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 4: sometimes they'd be in shapes of like spiders.

448
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 3: Yeah stars, Yes, I'm glad you mentioned shapes of spiders.

449
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:23,239
Speaker 2: I just wanted to mention one last thing.

450
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 3: The tall skinny top hat really makes me think of

451
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 3: the art of Edward Gory, Like if you think about

452
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:32,880
Speaker 3: that kind of macabre, sort of gothic kind of vibe,

453
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,359
Speaker 3: or like Tim Burton, like The Corpse Bride or something

454
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:38,159
Speaker 3: like that, or even Nightmember before Christmas. Those tall skinny

455
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 3: top hats very much fit that aesthetic.

456
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:42,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, I love it. You're right, we need them back.

457
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:42,880
Speaker 4: We need them back.

458
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 2: I think so clearly you guys are on board with this.

459
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 1: We'll figure it out. Yeah, because now that now that

460
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:50,200
Speaker 1: we're rocking the Tricorn, I can I can tell our

461
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 1: accountant this was for work purposes. So that's that's really

462
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 1: the reason we're having on the show. Uh. Also, we

463
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:02,919
Speaker 1: would be remiss as a US based UH researchers and

464
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 1: podcasters if we did not shout out, perhaps what are

465
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,919
Speaker 1: the two most famous uses of the top hat in

466
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 1: US mythos, which is of course former president amateur wrestler

467
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 1: Abraham Lincoln. Going to reach on that guy, Yeah, the

468
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 1: guy who inspired Uncle Sam ah right by far, one

469
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:23,919
Speaker 1: of the most garish top hats.

470
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 2: That one kind of flares out at the top.

471
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:29,200
Speaker 1: Right, Okay, kind of feels how the I guess that's

472
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,639
Speaker 1: a good point depends on how the cartoonist was feeling

473
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:33,880
Speaker 1: about the us on that day. Whatever they drew.

474
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 2: I love hat related satire.

475
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 1: And we're going to hold the phone, the rough, the

476
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,159
Speaker 1: corset or the collar. There, folks, this is going to

477
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 1: be a two parter. Big Big thinks too. The legendary

478
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 1: A J. Bahamas Jacobs, just the most like the nicest,

479
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:54,400
Speaker 1: most erud averdyke.

480
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,720
Speaker 3: Guy indeed and just a yeah and a fashion icon,

481
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:00,679
Speaker 3: a real clothes horse with the try corner. Had that

482
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 3: you were also rocking. I'm gonna gap to get me

483
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 3: on for the next time we have ah on. But yeah,

484
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 3: always always a delight to hang with the puzzler.

485
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 1: Yes, agreed, Big Big Things as well to our super

486
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 1: producer mister Max Williams, his biological brother, our composer Alex Williams.

487
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 1: Do we have a check in on Alex? How's he doing?

488
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 2: He's good, Yeah, he's still I think he's I think

489
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:22,359
Speaker 2: he's in town still.

490
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 1: Yeah.

491
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:28,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, Alex around his code just playing guitar, singing, hiking,

492
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:29,920
Speaker 4: riding bikes.

493
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:32,359
Speaker 1: Maybe we could get maybe we could get Alex on

494
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,679
Speaker 1: the show one day or return have him return one

495
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 1: day soon. In the meantime, Big thanks to Jonathan Strickland

496
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,680
Speaker 1: aka the Quizzer, who else, Noel, who else? Who else?

497
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 2: Oh you know, Chris Frasciotis, E.

498
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 3: Jeff Codes here in Spirits, all the hits you know,

499
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 3: Rachel Big, Spinach Lanch and all that good stuff.

500
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 2: The rude dudes over.

501
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 3: At Ridiculous Crime. And of course you've been thank you

502
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 3: and also witch.

503
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 2: You mm hmm. You see you next time, folks.

504
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 3: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

505
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows