WEBVTT - Existential Zones, Pt. 2 — It Ends 0:00:00.180 --> 0:00:02.810 The Next Picture Show is presented by Regal Unlimited, the 0:00:02.880 --> 0:00:05.690 all-you-can-watch movie subscription pass that pays for itself in just 0:00:05.730 --> 0:00:09.590 two visits. See any standard 2D movie, anytime, with no 0:00:09.630 --> 0:00:12.410 blackout dates or restrictions. Sign up now on the Regal 0:00:12.510 --> 0:00:15.130 app or at the link in this episode's description and 0:00:15.260 --> 0:00:22.800 use code NEXTPICK26 to receive 15% off. It's very difficult 0:00:22.820 --> 0:00:25.259 to keep the line between the past and the present. 0:00:25.280 --> 0:00:28.670 Do you believe that someone out of the past can change? 0:00:29.260 --> 0:00:31.960 Enter and take possession of a living being. 0:00:31.980 --> 0:00:34.100 We may be through with the past, but the past 0:00:34.180 --> 0:00:40.600 is not through with us! Welcome back to The Next 0:00:40.659 --> 0:00:42.900 Picture Show, a Movie of the Week podcast devoted to 0:00:42.920 --> 0:00:44.760 a classic film and the way it's shaped our thoughts 0:00:44.880 --> 0:00:47.820 on a recent release. I'm Tasha Robinson, here again with. 0:00:48.200 --> 0:00:48.659 Keith Phipps. 0:00:49.180 --> 0:00:49.820 Scott Tobias. 0:00:50.420 --> 0:00:53.239 Our absent co-host Genevieve Kosky said something about going off 0:00:53.280 --> 0:00:55.620 to conquer the cosmos and prove that she does so 0:00:55.680 --> 0:00:57.730 know what to do with other worlds, and we haven't 0:00:57.740 --> 0:01:00.040 seen her since. We wish her all the best in 0:01:00.100 --> 0:01:02.860 pushing back the frontiers of man's limitations and hope she 0:01:02.880 --> 0:01:06.360 brings us all souvenirs. In our last episode, we discussed 0:01:06.540 --> 0:01:11.750 Andrei Tartovsky's 1972 adaptation of Stanislaw Lem's novel Solaris. We'll 0:01:11.790 --> 0:01:13.690 return to that movie after we spend a little time 0:01:13.730 --> 0:01:17.709 with its newer equivalent, Alexander Ullum's feature debut, It Ends. 0:01:18.330 --> 0:01:21.970 This little 89-minute indie movie, made for just $ 80, 000, had 0:01:22.010 --> 0:01:25.190 an interesting path to the screen. Ullum spent six years 0:01:25.280 --> 0:01:28.520 and several rounds of reshoots on making, revising, and recutting it. 0:01:29.090 --> 0:01:32.330 It debuted at South by Southwest in 2025, but like 0:01:32.390 --> 0:01:34.830 so many smaller movies playing at festivals over the past 0:01:34.870 --> 0:01:37.570 few years, it wasn't picked up for release. Ulam was 0:01:37.730 --> 0:01:40.330 on the lot at Universal Studios, having the film turned 0:01:40.410 --> 0:01:43.230 down for distribution again, when he noticed a crowd of 0:01:43.310 --> 0:01:47.150 influencers nearby for a Jurassic World Rebirth event. As Ulam 0:01:47.170 --> 0:01:50.530 told Variety, he jumped a fence, lied his way through security, 0:01:50.810 --> 0:01:53.500 and crashed the event, where he ran into filmmaker Nick 0:01:53.590 --> 0:01:56.760 Curcio and talked up his movie. Curcio wound up posting 0:01:56.800 --> 0:01:58.910 about it in ends for his audience, which led to 0:01:58.950 --> 0:02:02.310 an online debut as part of Letterboxd's new streaming store. 0:02:02.970 --> 0:02:05.830 That brought the film to the attention of boutique distributor Neon, 0:02:05.950 --> 0:02:07.790 which picked up the movie and brought it to theaters, 0:02:07.910 --> 0:02:11.200 where it premiered to rave reviews. And in the process, 0:02:11.260 --> 0:02:13.500 Olam picked up a contract for his next movie, which 0:02:13.520 --> 0:02:16.720 he just finished shooting. Ed Ends is a daring little 0:02:16.740 --> 0:02:19.980 piece of micro-budget drama centering on four friends all at 0:02:20.040 --> 0:02:24.080 transition points in their lives. James, Day, and Fisher have 0:02:24.120 --> 0:02:26.560 just graduated from college and are moving out of the dorms. 0:02:27.080 --> 0:02:29.310 Their friend Tyler, who joined the military and has been 0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:31.690 away for a year, is back from training to help 0:02:31.730 --> 0:02:34.669 them move. But after packing everything into a rental truck 0:02:34.690 --> 0:02:37.050 and leaving it to the movers, the four friends wind 0:02:37.130 --> 0:02:39.790 up on a forest-lined road with no turns or exits. 0:02:40.450 --> 0:02:43.220 Whenever they stop, screaming people charge out of the woods 0:02:43.280 --> 0:02:46.620 and assault their jeep, seemingly trying to steal it. After 0:02:46.660 --> 0:02:48.260 a full day on the road, they realize the car 0:02:48.360 --> 0:02:51.200 isn't burning gas. None of them are tired or thirsty. 0:02:51.620 --> 0:02:54.730 They can't sleep. Are they in purgatory? Is this a 0:02:54.770 --> 0:02:57.660 test of some kind? They all have different theories and 0:02:57.720 --> 0:03:00.940 different responses. And as the movie unfolds, they each reveal 0:03:00.980 --> 0:03:03.960 things about themselves, both consciously as a way to pass 0:03:04.000 --> 0:03:06.919 the time or try to end the experience they're having, 0:03:07.380 --> 0:03:11.220 and unconsciously in their responses to the situation. Is this 0:03:11.280 --> 0:03:14.890 a film about despair? About the afterlife? About the condition 0:03:14.930 --> 0:03:18.450 of being human? About the difficulties of growing up? We'll 0:03:18.470 --> 0:03:19.730 get into that in just a moment. 0:03:20.630 --> 0:03:23.830 How long do y'all think we can do this? Just 0:03:23.889 --> 0:03:25.650 sitting in here, driving. 0:03:26.940 --> 0:03:28.840 Maybe it's a forest full of people James has been 0:03:28.860 --> 0:03:29.480 a dick to. 0:03:29.600 --> 0:03:31.940 Maybe it's a forest full of people I've given dick to. 0:03:31.980 --> 0:03:33.019 Empty fucking forest. 0:03:33.080 --> 0:03:33.880 I definitely want. 0:03:33.760 --> 0:03:36.660 To be here. James, there is no test! 0:03:38.060 --> 0:03:39.760 So just this? Forever? 0:03:42.570 --> 0:03:44.090 What if we're supposed to suffer here? 0:03:44.210 --> 0:03:47.130 Happy birthday! 0:03:47.250 --> 0:03:48.330 What if that's the point? 0:03:48.510 --> 0:03:50.810 I'll do it. 0:03:51.510 --> 0:03:52.310 For him. 0:03:52.410 --> 0:03:52.710 It's time. 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:02.280 This is not real life anymore. 0:04:05.160 --> 0:04:06.380 Help me! 0:04:06.400 --> 0:04:07.460 Help me! 0:04:08.780 --> 0:04:11.000 So it ends. We could start with a lot of things, 0:04:11.040 --> 0:04:13.520 but where I really want to start is Ulm describes 0:04:13.580 --> 0:04:16.900 this movie as Richard Linklater made a horror movie. He's 0:04:17.560 --> 0:04:20.180 used that as kind of the tagline, his calling card 0:04:20.220 --> 0:04:22.029 and trying to sell it. And he's used it in 0:04:22.050 --> 0:04:24.910 various interviews. Do you think that's accurate? 0:04:25.290 --> 0:04:27.550 It's a good calling card. I don't know if it 0:04:27.589 --> 0:04:31.090 describes the movie. We talked about doing Slacker as a pairing. 0:04:31.250 --> 0:04:34.410 And I think we're going to find more connections with Solaris. 0:04:34.710 --> 0:04:36.050 I don't know. What do you think, Scott? 0:04:36.529 --> 0:04:39.589 I think it's fair if you're talking about the tone 0:04:39.630 --> 0:04:42.589 of the movie. I mean, the fact is, as a 0:04:42.670 --> 0:04:45.070 horror film, what's fascinating about it is that it starts 0:04:45.170 --> 0:04:49.630 off as something familiar as a horror film. And is 0:04:49.930 --> 0:04:54.650 shot quite effectively. When you get that first sequence. When 0:04:55.190 --> 0:04:57.750 they drive back to where they entered the road. And 0:04:57.890 --> 0:05:00.910 it is now shut off by the forest. And they're 0:05:01.029 --> 0:05:05.130 attacked by all of these people. Being sort of running 0:05:05.310 --> 0:05:09.270 out of the woods. That has a real impact. That 0:05:09.350 --> 0:05:13.029 feels like a conventional horror film. But then when the 0:05:13.050 --> 0:05:15.570 film becomes what it becomes. And it's much more of 0:05:15.610 --> 0:05:19.410 a situation. Those attacks continue. have no horror effect at 0:05:19.470 --> 0:05:22.710 all because they can anticipate them, they can time them out, 0:05:22.830 --> 0:05:26.370 and eventually any kind of threat that you would experience 0:05:26.390 --> 0:05:29.609 in a conventional horror film completely disappears. It's a horror 0:05:29.650 --> 0:05:34.180 film only in a philosophical sense, not in a visceral sense, 0:05:34.420 --> 0:05:38.420 which is, I think, a hugely audacious and fascinating thing, 0:05:38.800 --> 0:05:40.480 one of the many things I love about this movie. 0:05:40.880 --> 0:05:43.000 So then what is it? And I think then you 0:05:43.020 --> 0:05:45.400 can kind of shift into this idea that it is 0:05:46.010 --> 0:05:49.610 you know, link letter, like in the mode of slacker 0:05:49.790 --> 0:05:51.710 or waking life or a movie like that, where it's 0:05:51.750 --> 0:05:55.410 just like, okay, now we're just in philosophical terrain. And 0:05:55.670 --> 0:05:57.750 I think one of the things that makes it link 0:05:57.830 --> 0:06:01.150 lettery and is that all of them has a really 0:06:01.190 --> 0:06:05.039 good sense of dialogue and how, you know, young people 0:06:05.120 --> 0:06:08.540 talk and philosophize and joke and relate to each other. 0:06:08.560 --> 0:06:10.940 There's a, there's kind of a, you know, a loose, fun, 0:06:11.660 --> 0:06:15.280 quality to it that's also married to, I think, a 0:06:15.320 --> 0:06:19.880 pretty interesting, I guess, existential drama that sort of plays 0:06:19.940 --> 0:06:21.260 out in this scenario. 0:06:21.850 --> 0:06:24.510 Yeah, I don't want to get too far into spoilers yet, 0:06:24.670 --> 0:06:27.270 although we are definitely going to talk about where the 0:06:27.290 --> 0:06:30.030 movie goes and where the movie ends. But before we 0:06:30.070 --> 0:06:32.810 get to that, yeah, I didn't process this all that 0:06:32.870 --> 0:06:35.839 much as a horror film past, I want to say, 0:06:35.880 --> 0:06:40.060 maybe the first 25 minutes or so. It almost seems 0:06:40.160 --> 0:06:44.570 like It's got a horror-ish setup in a very A24 0:06:44.610 --> 0:06:46.669 get butts in seats kind of way. You know, you 0:06:47.050 --> 0:06:51.080 can advertise this with a few carefully selected shots and 0:06:51.220 --> 0:06:54.000 framing as a horror movie, but it kind of lures 0:06:54.020 --> 0:06:56.940 you in with that and then goes somewhere else. And similarly, 0:06:56.980 --> 0:06:59.180 there was a point of maybe a little later in 0:06:59.200 --> 0:07:02.440 the movie where the characters are kind of trying to 0:07:02.580 --> 0:07:06.040 decode the situation they're in and find the magic button 0:07:06.060 --> 0:07:08.770 that'll let them escape. where I realize it kind of 0:07:08.810 --> 0:07:11.440 picks up a lot of the framework of a repeating 0:07:11.500 --> 0:07:15.390 day movie. You know, your Groundhog Days and the many, 0:07:15.470 --> 0:07:19.420 many copycats of that where they kind of do the, 0:07:20.310 --> 0:07:22.960 you know, this is all a punishment because one of 0:07:23.040 --> 0:07:26.980 us did X. Like, let's do confessionals. Let's see if 0:07:27.020 --> 0:07:29.940 we can find the thing that we're missing or that 0:07:29.960 --> 0:07:32.900 we did or whatever and fix that. And that also 0:07:32.960 --> 0:07:36.260 proves to not be particularly relevant and is something that 0:07:36.300 --> 0:07:39.800 the movie can address and then dismiss. And all of 0:07:39.860 --> 0:07:43.880 this to me just feels very... Genre savvy, in a way, 0:07:43.890 --> 0:07:46.380 I'm just seeing more and more and more with young 0:07:46.440 --> 0:07:49.820 filmmakers in particular, people who've just absorbed a lot of 0:07:49.900 --> 0:07:53.700 cinema and kind of know this maybe hit me first 0:07:53.760 --> 0:07:57.120 and hardest with Smile, the horror movie. There's just a 0:07:57.280 --> 0:08:01.820 lot of young filmmakers, particularly working in genre, that are 0:08:01.880 --> 0:08:05.890 kind of coming from a perspective of You know cinema. 0:08:06.250 --> 0:08:10.350 And when X happens, you're expecting Y. So let's make 0:08:10.370 --> 0:08:14.110 a point of mentioning Y before we veer to kind 0:08:14.170 --> 0:08:16.910 of do a Leonardo DiCaprio pointing meme at you and 0:08:17.330 --> 0:08:19.470 acknowledge that you're smart before we move on and do 0:08:19.490 --> 0:08:21.850 the next thing. And I felt a lot of that here. 0:08:22.150 --> 0:08:25.770 You know, I felt a lot of the filmmaker kind 0:08:25.810 --> 0:08:28.230 of knows what we're thinking and is going to like 0:08:28.330 --> 0:08:30.810 take us just far enough down that road that we 0:08:30.860 --> 0:08:34.310 can feel smart. and then veer off in another direction 0:08:34.410 --> 0:08:36.770 so we can feel intrigued by where is this film 0:08:36.809 --> 0:08:37.370 going next. 0:08:37.710 --> 0:08:40.920 To what you were saying, Tasha, about young filmmakers and horror, 0:08:40.980 --> 0:08:44.620 I mean, what a year. I know, right? I mean, 0:08:44.660 --> 0:08:46.940 obviously the timing on this is a little wonky because 0:08:47.000 --> 0:08:49.200 of when it was made and when it was finally, 0:08:49.420 --> 0:08:50.939 how it was put on the letterbox and then it 0:08:51.000 --> 0:08:54.059 was released theatrically. So, you know, it doesn't always align, 0:08:54.100 --> 0:08:57.640 but we are experiencing these movies as like obsession and 0:08:57.700 --> 0:08:59.900 back rooms in this film. And it just, it kind 0:08:59.960 --> 0:09:03.020 of is a reminder of like, horror being now this 0:09:03.280 --> 0:09:08.590 space of exploration and theme and innovation that is kind 0:09:08.650 --> 0:09:11.709 of leaving a lot of the other genres behind at 0:09:11.730 --> 0:09:14.690 the current moment, just because I think they've discovered that 0:09:15.170 --> 0:09:18.460 there's a thirst for it, for original horror, that it's 0:09:18.500 --> 0:09:21.100 something you can gamble not a lot of money on 0:09:21.340 --> 0:09:25.040 and have these incredible moments like this film, which was 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:29.450 made for 80 grand or back rooms, which is obviously 0:09:29.490 --> 0:09:32.929 not the most expensive production, and come up with something 0:09:33.170 --> 0:09:36.390 pretty original, I would say. Quite an experience. So it 0:09:36.429 --> 0:09:39.050 has been kind of invigorating to see this. Though I 0:09:39.050 --> 0:09:41.989 think Keith was somewhat more guarded in his praise of 0:09:42.030 --> 0:09:45.250 this film, so I'm curious to hear his take on it. 0:09:45.530 --> 0:09:47.810 No, I like the movie. To be clear, I saw 0:09:47.830 --> 0:09:51.990 this at the Overlook Film Festival last year, and it 0:09:52.030 --> 0:09:54.550 is a horror festival. So it did fit right in there, 0:09:54.590 --> 0:09:58.260 but you're right, it does lose the horror fairly early on. 0:09:58.420 --> 0:10:01.500 I just thought it was good. I thought the ideas 0:10:01.520 --> 0:10:03.800 were maybe stronger, not stronger than the execution, which I 0:10:03.800 --> 0:10:06.140 think is quite good, but I felt like I lost 0:10:06.200 --> 0:10:08.360 a little patience with it as it went on, which 0:10:08.580 --> 0:10:10.420 I understand is kind of part of the point. But 0:10:10.460 --> 0:10:12.420 for an 89 minutes, you know, it does make 89 0:10:12.420 --> 0:10:16.100 minutes feels kind of long for this in some ways. But, 0:10:16.200 --> 0:10:18.640 you know, the movie came out again. It got all 0:10:18.679 --> 0:10:22.120 kinds of rapturous response, including from you, Scott. And I'm like, 0:10:22.480 --> 0:10:24.300 I'm probably just, you know, going to have a much 0:10:24.340 --> 0:10:26.579 stronger response to it this time. And when I saw 0:10:26.600 --> 0:10:30.209 it again, I was like, Oh, that's good. I like it. 0:10:30.570 --> 0:10:32.309 I did not. I was not over the moon for it, 0:10:32.309 --> 0:10:34.679 but I do like it. I think it's really savvy 0:10:34.800 --> 0:10:38.630 to release this film. in the wake of Obsession and Backrooms. 0:10:38.870 --> 0:10:40.550 I kind of wish the movie Undertone had come out 0:10:40.570 --> 0:10:42.190 a little after those movies, too, because I think that 0:10:42.230 --> 0:10:44.569 could have ridden that wave. This movie I liked quite 0:10:44.610 --> 0:10:48.010 a bit. It's doing something neat with horror that I 0:10:48.050 --> 0:10:50.750 think maybe got a little lost earlier this year, so 0:10:50.870 --> 0:10:53.610 call that a little recommendation. But yeah, I'm sure we're 0:10:53.630 --> 0:10:54.630 going to get into it some more. I think there's 0:10:54.650 --> 0:10:57.250 a lot going on in this film, and I do 0:10:57.290 --> 0:10:59.439 like it, but I was not blown away. 0:10:59.780 --> 0:11:02.439 Let's start in unpacking this. Again, I don't want to 0:11:02.460 --> 0:11:04.700 get too deep into the what's going on because I 0:11:04.760 --> 0:11:09.030 want to, I strongly suspect just based on how far 0:11:09.070 --> 0:11:12.510 the movie has come from theaters already, like how many 0:11:12.530 --> 0:11:16.329 theaters it left literally as of today when we're recording this. 0:11:16.770 --> 0:11:19.050 I wonder if by the time when this episode comes 0:11:19.150 --> 0:11:21.910 out two weeks from now as we're recording it, I'm 0:11:21.970 --> 0:11:23.449 wondering if people are going to have an option to 0:11:23.490 --> 0:11:25.229 watch it at all. So this may be more of 0:11:25.350 --> 0:11:29.439 a put it on your watch when it hits streaming again. 0:11:29.460 --> 0:11:31.260 I kind of wonder if it'll come back to the 0:11:31.320 --> 0:11:35.559 letterbox to store in addition to wherever else Neon puts it. 0:11:36.160 --> 0:11:38.020 So I don't want to get too far into the 0:11:38.080 --> 0:11:42.400 spoiler section yet. So with that caveat, though, we've got 0:11:42.500 --> 0:11:46.290 four characters here who are very different from each other. 0:11:46.309 --> 0:11:49.130 It's so different, in fact, that in the early going 0:11:49.170 --> 0:11:50.709 of the movie, I had kind of one of those, 0:11:51.330 --> 0:11:54.800 why are these people friends? And Really, are they friends 0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:57.120 given how they speak to each other and treat each 0:11:57.179 --> 0:12:00.500 other kind of responses? But I think it is pretty 0:12:00.600 --> 0:12:06.050 easy in college, particularly to fall in with people who are, 0:12:06.530 --> 0:12:09.309 you know, in your classes or in your dorms or 0:12:09.490 --> 0:12:11.679 in your social circles who you might not be friends 0:12:11.720 --> 0:12:14.930 with five years later. So I'll give that a pass. 0:12:15.090 --> 0:12:18.589 But again, very different people. Curious if any of them 0:12:18.809 --> 0:12:21.910 especially stood out for you, or I guess to ask 0:12:21.960 --> 0:12:24.380 the question I asked in the last part of the episode, 0:12:24.740 --> 0:12:27.550 if you identified with or connected with any of them particularly. 0:12:28.059 --> 0:12:33.099 I'm so old. I don't know that I do anymore. No, 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:33.740 that's being flipped. 0:12:34.020 --> 0:12:36.980 I would say, I mean, the standout character for me 0:12:37.080 --> 0:12:40.780 is James, played by Phineas Yoon, because I think that 0:12:40.940 --> 0:12:44.840 your initial impression of him is someone who is very 0:12:44.980 --> 0:12:51.290 cool and hyper-rational and not really emotionally driven. He kind 0:12:51.330 --> 0:12:55.209 of surprises you because he ends up being the person 0:12:55.690 --> 0:13:00.750 who is most hopeful, most curious, most willing to withstand 0:13:00.770 --> 0:13:05.850 the sort of psychological pressure challenge of the situation as 0:13:05.910 --> 0:13:08.310 it goes on and on and on and on uh 0:13:08.390 --> 0:13:10.189 trying to be vague here but boy tasha we should 0:13:10.210 --> 0:13:12.740 probably but we should really just like have this be 0:13:13.080 --> 0:13:15.719 a spoiler podcast at this point but i guess vaguely 0:13:15.760 --> 0:13:19.400 speaking i i think that his need to understand what's 0:13:19.440 --> 0:13:21.719 going on his need to understand what it means you 0:13:22.240 --> 0:13:25.179 know it really drives that character makes him the most 0:13:25.210 --> 0:13:26.670 compelling of the four for me but i kind of 0:13:26.710 --> 0:13:29.750 like i like that the film really delineates these characters 0:13:29.929 --> 0:13:31.809 quite well i mean it's a really nice piece of 0:13:31.830 --> 0:13:34.730 characterization good acting in the movie And I think to 0:13:34.770 --> 0:13:39.230 speak to your assertion about how these four could be friends, 0:13:39.370 --> 0:13:41.570 I think the one character who kind of stands apart 0:13:41.590 --> 0:13:44.630 from them is the driver. And I think he ends 0:13:44.670 --> 0:13:47.870 up standing apart because he has gone on a different 0:13:48.010 --> 0:13:50.949 journey than them. He's that classic person that you left 0:13:51.010 --> 0:13:53.610 behind that was an old buddy of yours and now 0:13:53.630 --> 0:13:56.970 you've gone off to college and he's gone off to, what, 0:13:57.010 --> 0:14:02.790 the military? And they just don't quite click. the same way. 0:14:02.840 --> 0:14:05.700 Their experiences are not the same. And there's a kind 0:14:05.740 --> 0:14:10.160 of a built-in awkwardness to that relationship. And again, it's 0:14:10.200 --> 0:14:12.800 all in a fruitful way. And one of the things 0:14:12.820 --> 0:14:16.030 that I think really works in the film's favor throughout, 0:14:16.070 --> 0:14:18.790 I think, is it's really funny. Just on a script 0:14:18.830 --> 0:14:23.390 writing level, it's really promising beyond what it does on 0:14:23.430 --> 0:14:24.240 a conceptual level. 0:14:24.730 --> 0:14:28.030 Yeah, the guy who you identify as the driver, the 0:14:28.080 --> 0:14:30.620 guy who went off and joined the military, Tyler, played 0:14:30.660 --> 0:14:33.860 by Mitchell Cole. This is a very multi-culti group, you know, 0:14:34.240 --> 0:14:37.500 a Black woman, an Asian guy, a white guy. And 0:14:37.540 --> 0:14:39.750 then Tyler is also a white guy, but with a 0:14:39.890 --> 0:14:42.950 very distinctive Southern accent and what I think of as 0:14:42.990 --> 0:14:47.750 kind of a Southern military family personality. He comes across 0:14:47.770 --> 0:14:51.170 as a little bit curt, not very interested in talking 0:14:51.190 --> 0:14:55.390 about emotions, but also possibly kind of deeper and more 0:14:55.630 --> 0:14:59.890 life experience than the other people in the car. And 0:14:59.930 --> 0:15:02.670 he does feel like he's moved beyond them just a 0:15:02.710 --> 0:15:06.900 little bit. And, you know, that he's certainly dealing with 0:15:06.940 --> 0:15:10.700 a deeper well of emotion than he would be comfortable expressing. 0:15:10.720 --> 0:15:13.940 And I found him very interesting. All of them, I think, 0:15:14.060 --> 0:15:17.860 I agree, they're pretty well delineated in kind of interesting ways. 0:15:18.240 --> 0:15:20.300 Fisher kind of feels like he might have been the 0:15:20.580 --> 0:15:23.640 class clown and Day has a little more of a 0:15:23.740 --> 0:15:29.370 caretaker vibe. But yeah, James, who Alex Olam has been 0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:32.350 very clear is like kind of a self-insertion character for 0:15:32.390 --> 0:15:35.960 him and how he would take the situation. It's both very, 0:15:36.060 --> 0:15:40.470 very frustrating in a pretty deliberate way, and for me, 0:15:40.970 --> 0:15:45.190 just the most understandable character there. The way he tries 0:15:45.230 --> 0:15:49.990 to intellectualize everything that he's dealing with, the way he... 0:15:51.210 --> 0:15:53.390 wants to talk about things nobody else wants to talk 0:15:53.450 --> 0:15:56.270 about in terms of what might be going on and 0:15:56.590 --> 0:15:59.350 doesn't take emotional cues from the rest of them when 0:15:59.370 --> 0:16:01.190 they try to shut him down. And the fact that 0:16:01.230 --> 0:16:05.230 he pushes on when other people make other decisions, all 0:16:05.270 --> 0:16:09.270 of which makes him, I think, both frustrating and unlikable 0:16:09.450 --> 0:16:12.890 and just the most interesting character and just, to me, 0:16:12.960 --> 0:16:14.800 maybe the most relatable character in the story. 0:16:22.610 --> 0:16:25.770 One more thing that connects it to Linklater is that 0:16:25.860 --> 0:16:29.920 one of its themes is Linklater's favorite theme, which is time. 0:16:30.340 --> 0:16:33.200 Though I don't know how much, you know, it's felt. 0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:34.840 I mean, I guess maybe you all felt it was 0:16:34.880 --> 0:16:38.450 kind of a long feeling 89 minute movie. So maybe 0:16:39.110 --> 0:16:40.090 you thought it moved pretty fast. 0:16:40.370 --> 0:16:42.850 If this movie was two hours long, I probably would 0:16:42.870 --> 0:16:45.690 have gotten pretty itchy, but it felt pretty perfect to 0:16:45.730 --> 0:16:46.650 me at 89 minutes. 0:16:47.210 --> 0:16:47.430 Okay. 0:16:47.750 --> 0:16:50.110 But it is in any case, you know, something that 0:16:50.390 --> 0:16:53.100 we know these characters are having to contend with. And 0:16:53.120 --> 0:16:57.340 I think that the film does an effective enough job 0:16:57.800 --> 0:17:02.360 of dramatizing the kind of wear and tear that you 0:17:02.400 --> 0:17:07.320 would experience logging that many miles and hours and days 0:17:07.380 --> 0:17:10.000 and weeks or whatever, you know, driving on this road 0:17:10.040 --> 0:17:13.330 with no end and never getting tired, never getting hungry, 0:17:13.810 --> 0:17:18.389 having to, you know, basically exhaust every conversational nugget you 0:17:18.410 --> 0:17:21.619 might have in your head. All that is interesting. I mean, 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:23.520 I think it's a little, it's almost a little unrealistic 0:17:23.540 --> 0:17:25.780 in the fact that to the degree that like when we, 0:17:26.560 --> 0:17:28.440 we need sleep for a reason, we sleep, we sleep 0:17:28.480 --> 0:17:31.899 because we would go completely mad. If we were to 0:17:31.920 --> 0:17:35.060 stay awake for such a long time. And so I 0:17:35.080 --> 0:17:38.760 think the degree to which these characters would actually kind 0:17:38.800 --> 0:17:41.060 of fall to pieces would be a lot faster, I think, 0:17:41.100 --> 0:17:43.899 than what happens in the scope of time that is 0:17:43.920 --> 0:17:44.920 suggested by the movie. 0:17:45.420 --> 0:17:48.409 But nevertheless. But bodily needs are no longer required. They 0:17:48.430 --> 0:17:51.710 don't need to eat either and presumably use the bathroom 0:17:52.070 --> 0:17:55.570 or shave. I guess shave does grow some facial hair. 0:17:55.970 --> 0:17:57.189 over the course of the film, doesn't he? 0:17:57.250 --> 0:17:58.830 Well, he heals, too. 0:17:59.290 --> 0:18:01.609 One of them gets injured and then heals up. 0:18:02.050 --> 0:18:02.629 Yeah. 0:18:02.830 --> 0:18:06.900 But there is no sign that they're shaving, that they're 0:18:06.920 --> 0:18:10.500 growing bodily hair. I wondered about their fingernails. Or getting stinky. 0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:12.980 I always wonder about, I find myself thinking about smells 0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:15.679 in films more than I think most people, but I 0:18:15.720 --> 0:18:20.090 just wonder what it smelled like inside of there. But 0:18:20.109 --> 0:18:21.510 I think they would have run out of things to 0:18:21.570 --> 0:18:23.470 talk about sooner than they do. 0:18:24.010 --> 0:18:27.010 There's a game that they play that involves really going 0:18:27.070 --> 0:18:31.389 through item after item after item that would seem like 0:18:31.410 --> 0:18:33.369 that would take a while to, to try to. 0:18:33.410 --> 0:18:34.450 Yeah, that's true. 0:18:34.470 --> 0:18:37.090 And it kind of feels like, you know, that's the 0:18:37.130 --> 0:18:40.630 point both within the universe of the movie where they're 0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:45.020 inventing games to make conversation still seem relevant after so 0:18:45.040 --> 0:18:48.600 much time. And outside of the movie where we're seeing 0:18:48.660 --> 0:18:51.629 the passage of time and, and how the, They've been 0:18:51.670 --> 0:18:55.010 on the road so long that discussing their emotional responses 0:18:55.070 --> 0:18:59.670 towards windshield wipers is potentially interesting. Yeah, the passage of 0:18:59.730 --> 0:19:04.100 time and the way it's conveyed in sometimes very humorous ways. 0:19:04.119 --> 0:19:06.560 At one point, there's just a giant title card that says, 0:19:06.980 --> 0:19:12.450 way later. You know, this movie has a sharp sense 0:19:12.490 --> 0:19:16.180 of humor for... something that is in many ways kind 0:19:16.220 --> 0:19:20.600 of grim and certainly existential. So the way it plays 0:19:20.640 --> 0:19:24.720 around with time and particularly the lapses of time is fun. 0:19:25.119 --> 0:19:27.350 Before we get into anything spoilery, we should just sort 0:19:27.380 --> 0:19:30.649 of talk about the filmmaking, you know, the cinematography, and 0:19:31.130 --> 0:19:35.490 particularly I think the use of montage to show time passing, 0:19:35.609 --> 0:19:38.590 to show kind of the weight of time on these 0:19:38.630 --> 0:19:42.800 people is very interesting. This is more or less a 0:19:43.040 --> 0:19:46.660 single set movie that takes place outdoors. 0:19:47.869 --> 0:19:49.109 It's a mobile set. Yeah. 0:19:49.369 --> 0:19:56.820 Yeah. traversing a very large amount of imaginary landscape. I 0:19:56.840 --> 0:19:59.720 think that's innovative. I think the camera use is kind 0:19:59.780 --> 0:20:04.720 of fun and exploratory. We have a little classic spinning 0:20:04.780 --> 0:20:09.120 upside down to make you dizzy and make the... Skies 0:20:09.180 --> 0:20:11.800 seem like the ground. We get in real, real close 0:20:11.880 --> 0:20:14.880 and wander far away from our characters. I think there's 0:20:14.900 --> 0:20:17.619 a lot of conscious thought to, like, how can we 0:20:17.700 --> 0:20:23.310 visually vary a situation that is event-wise kind of unvarying 0:20:23.470 --> 0:20:26.550 and make it still seem like fresh and interesting for 0:20:26.570 --> 0:20:26.970 our audience? 0:20:27.320 --> 0:20:31.300 Yeah, the landscape is, by design, unchanging. But I also 0:20:31.320 --> 0:20:34.159 feel like we never see the same particular stretch of 0:20:34.200 --> 0:20:37.900 road more than once, too. It's very clever that way. 0:20:37.920 --> 0:20:40.649 I watched a pretty funny interview, a short interview with Ulum, 0:20:40.670 --> 0:20:45.280 where he talks about how he... He filmed this in 0:20:45.359 --> 0:20:48.880 Florida on a very long road, but he's been asked 0:20:48.980 --> 0:20:51.879 by the national park that it's in to stop identifying 0:20:51.900 --> 0:20:55.260 where it is because people, having seen the film, have 0:20:55.300 --> 0:20:58.390 started showing up there to drag race along this long road. 0:20:58.950 --> 0:21:01.369 So now he can't talk about where he shot it anymore. 0:21:01.730 --> 0:21:03.910 That's funny. Should we get into spoilers at this point? 0:21:04.290 --> 0:21:05.990 Yeah, let's get into spoilers. 0:21:06.010 --> 0:21:08.550 Before you, I think there's a conversation that happens early 0:21:08.609 --> 0:21:11.660 on that's kind of key to this movie where James 0:21:11.700 --> 0:21:15.030 is going on about envisioning the rest of his life, 0:21:15.640 --> 0:21:18.310