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Speaker 1: Welcome to the NFL Legends Podcast, an NFL podcast for

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Speaker 1: the players, by the players. Here is your host, four

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Speaker 1: team year NFL veteran and Hall of Famer Anius Williams.

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Speaker 1: As we celebrate the NFL's hundreds of season, A series

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Speaker 1: of round tables were conducted around the two thousand and

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Speaker 1: eighteen postseason. Consistent of a staggering array of NFL greats,

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Speaker 1: these round tables talked about the NFL's past glory, its present,

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Speaker 1: stars in its promising future. Let's listen in all right, boys,

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Speaker 1: we're here, honey, your anniversary, celebrating the NFL. And I

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Speaker 1: couldn't think of a better table to be at. He's

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Speaker 1: been playing and he's been there for a long time.

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Speaker 1: Let's kick it off. Yeah, who's Tony Gonzal newly elected

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Speaker 1: to the Pro Football Hall of Fame? Thank you? Great

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Speaker 1: l A Charge And I once sat day, go Charger

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Speaker 1: following this man's foot steps. Who really got started here?

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Speaker 1: And Ozzie Knewsom what we call the receiving tight ends

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Speaker 1: of what we see today. That Travis Kelsey, the Rob

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Speaker 1: Gronkowski who recently retired to killing take us back to

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Speaker 1: when you came into the league, and how the tight

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Speaker 1: end position would use when you got to the league

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Speaker 1: in the late seventies, Well, we were still using black

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Speaker 1: and white film. We just we had just got projected.

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Speaker 1: We're still using the projector. We had just got face mask.

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Speaker 1: What really started it all was Don Corriell. They drafted

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Speaker 1: me in the first round is seventy nine. On that

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Speaker 1: staff with Joe Gibbs, they were trying to figure out,

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Speaker 1: how do we get this rookie we got from the

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Speaker 1: universe Missouri, who was just learning the game of football.

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Speaker 1: So they decided to take out the fullback, put in

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Speaker 1: the tight end, the second tight end, and little did

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Speaker 1: I know, it just changed the entire way football is played.

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Speaker 1: Did you know then, when you were doing what you

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Speaker 1: were doing, that you were going to change the game

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Speaker 1: that you were in revolutionized the game at that position.

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Speaker 1: No idea, no idea. And it wasn't me. If I

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Speaker 1: got drafted by Chicago who passed me twice, I'm not better.

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Speaker 1: If I had gone to Buffalo, who passed me twice,

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Speaker 1: I've forgiven them for that, thank you. If I had

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Speaker 1: gone to one of those teams, you wouldn't have heard

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Speaker 1: of Kellen Winslow right it's the innovation that those coaches said, Okay,

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Speaker 1: we've got a guy here, we got to get him

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Speaker 1: on the field, right, how do we do that? Let's

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Speaker 1: do something different. You know what? Killing is funny that

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Speaker 1: you say that, because when I got drafted in nineteen nineties,

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Speaker 1: I went to one of the three teams that had

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Speaker 1: the h back position. Le Broncos had it, the Redskins

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Speaker 1: had it, and the Charges had it. And I remember

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Speaker 1: Steve Antonopolis, who was an athletic trainer. He said, Dan

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Speaker 1: wanted to see me after the meetings. So I go

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Speaker 1: up to Day's room and he said, what we're thinking

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Speaker 1: about moving you? Um, what do you think about playing

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Speaker 1: tight end? I am thinking to myself as hell, I'm

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Speaker 1: struggling learning WRO I received played. You said, I'm not

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Speaker 1: gonna get the bold at that time, I just wanted

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Speaker 1: to play. I just at that one. I'm a special teams,

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Speaker 1: I'm a gunna. You know I'm gonna kick off kick returned.

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Speaker 1: So I'm just trying to get the ball. And Wade

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Speaker 1: Phillips is our defensive coordinator and so I'm killing the

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Speaker 1: live back of the practice. I can't I can't throw

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Speaker 1: it up and throw the ball in the woods, I

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Speaker 1: kick it, he blows the whistle. One days he sits.

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Speaker 1: Dan put his ass in the game, and let's see

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Speaker 1: if they can cover. And because we can't, that's kind

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Speaker 1: of how my career started. Well, if I don't go

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Speaker 1: to one of the three teams that have the h

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Speaker 1: back position, who knows. If we're having this conversation or

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Speaker 1: I'm even sitting at this, I doubt it. You guys,

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Speaker 1: you got that situation. You were. You were a glorified tackle.

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Speaker 1: You really were. Everything was running ball, run the ball.

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Speaker 1: Now the game is we're gonna throw first, second, third down.

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Speaker 1: I think we all owe Don Correl something. We thank

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Speaker 1: you because he really changed the whole bill. When I

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Speaker 1: first came in. I'm into the kan City Chiefs obviously,

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Speaker 1: and I think the year before I got there, combined

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Speaker 1: combined catches for the tight ends was thirteen catches. That's it.

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Speaker 1: So they hit a good year. Yeah that was so.

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Speaker 1: I was like, well, I'm really I'm probably not gonna

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Speaker 1: trying to throw the ball, but I'm saying that I

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Speaker 1: know for sure you guys are athletic. I used to

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Speaker 1: watch you guys coming up Gunther Cunningham, so Gunther cunning was.

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Speaker 1: He was our defensive coordinate. When I got there as

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Speaker 1: a as a as a rookie, and I would running

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Speaker 1: a rounds and he's like, hey, you know, you remind

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Speaker 1: me of Helen wins Long, And I was like, really,

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Speaker 1: you know, because I knew all about you, And so

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Speaker 1: he actually went out and got me some tape. And

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Speaker 1: I don't know if I told you. I used to

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Speaker 1: watch your cut ups, seeing how you ran routes and

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Speaker 1: how you did it all. But you saw what happened.

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Speaker 1: I mean I got their thirteen catches. I didn't catch

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Speaker 1: how many balls my rookie I caught thirty three my

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Speaker 1: rookie year, fifty nine my second year, and then just exploded.

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Speaker 1: He was not in a situation where they had an

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Speaker 1: all time great tight end. I wasn't in a situation

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Speaker 1: being you didn't really follow a situation where they had

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Speaker 1: all time great tight ends to go to the charges

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Speaker 1: and you know what the tight end position represents at

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Speaker 1: that locale. How difficult was it to find your own

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Speaker 1: Niche like, okay, I'm into your gates. I don't need

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Speaker 1: to be killing Winslow. Was that difficult? Was that a

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Speaker 1: seamless transition because you're a basketball player, right. I think

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Speaker 1: for me it was the idea of not really having

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Speaker 1: a true understanding, so I didn't worry about much. When

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Speaker 1: I would see guys coming from these big programs, they

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Speaker 1: would always they always have habits already developed. I was

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Speaker 1: just raw, so I didn't have no bad. It's like

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Speaker 1: having no credit, and you know, I was blaming. I

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Speaker 1: was just playing. You know, when I had made all

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Speaker 1: these accomplishments, they started breaking up names people I had

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Speaker 1: never said. I think that's what helped me continue to,

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Speaker 1: you know, grow. I stayed focused. I had television, I

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Speaker 1: stayed working on my craft because I had no reasoning

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Speaker 1: to worry about what Kellen had to do. What Even

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Speaker 1: before him, we had a guy named Steve Alexander. I

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Speaker 1: was following his footsteps, so I was learning through him.

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Speaker 1: And then he got hurt training camp. So then when

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Speaker 1: they decided to play me, yeah, I'm just thinking Marty

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Speaker 1: Sean han't lost his mind playing football that since I

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Speaker 1: was a kid, so you know, I mean I remember

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Speaker 1: vividly my first game going against the Raiders and I'm

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Speaker 1: out there and you know, Rock Woodson I think was

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Speaker 1: the safety, and they called a play slide. I got

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Speaker 1: a corner and it's man courage. I'm looking like, that's

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Speaker 1: why Woodson. I played techno bowl type of game. I

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Speaker 1: know you're about to throw me the ball against him,

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Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. I ended up catching the

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Speaker 1: first down. Ultimately it clicked along out here, you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I can I can play with these guys.

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Speaker 1: My mom was totally different. So you mentioned you mentioned

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Speaker 1: the h back and when I came into New England

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Speaker 1: and on four that's what I was supposed to be,

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Speaker 1: supposed to be the AH. We had a guy my

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Speaker 1: name David. You know, Daniel Graham ended up leaving and

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Speaker 1: becoming the highest fade tighten as a blocker. You know,

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Speaker 1: he was making I don't know how much it was,

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Speaker 1: but we were joking that he was that he was

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Speaker 1: making he was making a million for every catch. But

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Speaker 1: it showed me the emphasis and the importance of being

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Speaker 1: able to being able to block, because I wanted to

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Speaker 1: go out and just catch passes, um, but I realized,

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Speaker 1: you're not gonna play in that offense if you can't block.

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Speaker 1: It depends on where you go, but athleticism will always

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Speaker 1: rise to the if you're a player. One thing I

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Speaker 1: realized in this league in fifteen years is that you're

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Speaker 1: gonna rise to the top. You're gonna be a guy

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Speaker 1: that can be counted on. You're gonna be a guy

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Speaker 1: that plays. But there are a lot of other circumstances

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Speaker 1: around you. People around you, coaches around you, injuries around

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Speaker 1: you that gave you the opportunity to be where you are.

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Speaker 1: When you came into the league. If you called passes,

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Speaker 1: that was a That was the heck of a season

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Speaker 1: for tight end. But you see the evolution now. Now,

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Speaker 1: if you don't catch eighty balls for a tight end

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Speaker 1: to have eight touchdown, you will bump The guys before me.

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Speaker 1: They were putting up forty catches a year, yes, and

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Speaker 1: that was a good year for them. The running back

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Speaker 1: was the main key, but the game just opened up

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Speaker 1: the field when the offensive cording is realized that there's

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Speaker 1: a whole field ont here to use, and if we

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Speaker 1: just spread it out a little bit and take advantage

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Speaker 1: of the throwing lanes, we can make it easier on

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Speaker 1: the running back. I mean, he's on the quarterbacks. You

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Speaker 1: came into the league. You're talking about the rule changes.

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Speaker 1: You can get assaulted. Tell me about it on a

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Speaker 1: line of scrimmage, and nobody didn't say anything. Nobody was

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Speaker 1: saying anything. You know, you could you get your post

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Speaker 1: that you can get your legs taken off from under you.

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Speaker 1: You could you be released inside the defensi and take

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Speaker 1: a shot at you. Now they breathe on you and

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Speaker 1: exactly not exactly like they don't even can touched. Let

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Speaker 1: him go, Let him go. Yeah, And that's why with you, Ben,

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Speaker 1: I mean the numbers that you put up back then,

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Speaker 1: I think I think you made good point about you know,

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Speaker 1: we always say who's the best Who's I mean the easy,

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Speaker 1: low hanging fruit is who's the best Titan? Who's the

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Speaker 1: best quarterback? What does that even mean? How are we?

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Speaker 1: What are we judging this off? We judging off a production,

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Speaker 1: while we judging off the Super Bowl championships, we judging

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Speaker 1: off Pro Bowls on pros? What is it? And so

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Speaker 1: you make a great point that it's all about the era,

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Speaker 1: and look at the numbers now, the evolution of the Titan.

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Speaker 1: The all time yardage record last it was broken by

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Speaker 1: George Kettle. It was broken earlier in the day by

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Speaker 1: Travis Kelson. And in this position, obviously you can be

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Speaker 1: durable and then not throw you the balls so you

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Speaker 1: don't catch in your passes. But what numbers will tell you,

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Speaker 1: like the numbers sitting at this table, is you were

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Speaker 1: able to stay healthy enough and to be able to

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Speaker 1: catch that many passers and take that many hits and

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Speaker 1: keep on getting up. A guy that just recently retired,

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Speaker 1: Rob Gronkowski Gate what makes what makes Wronk so unique?

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Speaker 1: He got like an orthodox way of getting open man

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Speaker 1: Like it's like like no disrespect to him and nothing.

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Speaker 1: But he got like these big old elbow paddies, like

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Speaker 1: these big old huge gloves, and he like and we

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Speaker 1: play him and I'm like, y'all keep y'all can't stop

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Speaker 1: this dude because it doesn't look like he's better than

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Speaker 1: what you think. He can run fast than what you say,

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Speaker 1: exactly what you think. So when you out there and

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Speaker 1: I'm just like this dude the like clown gloves and

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Speaker 1: he's running and I'm like, yeah, he running. Guys that

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Speaker 1: I know can run, you know what I'm saying. And

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Speaker 1: I'm like he gets up and he thought doing this

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Speaker 1: crazy little robot there and I'm like he in the

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Speaker 1: end zone again. Yeah, he just can play. I mean,

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Speaker 1: the guy knows how to play football and he's gonna

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Speaker 1: make the play that they need every time to catapart

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Speaker 1: them to win every single time. And I'm just like,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you have to take your hat off to

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Speaker 1: me if you understand how difficult it is to do

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Speaker 1: that in this league. Then when people see they see it,

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Speaker 1: and people see his stats and they're like, Okay, he big,

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Speaker 1: but when you see him up close and personal, then

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Speaker 1: you get a sense of jail. He huge. I'm talking

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Speaker 1: about huge, huge, grand cast to me is Shaquille O'Neal.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he is that big guy, athletic as hell,

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Speaker 1: and it's just too big to stop. While you were playing,

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Speaker 1: was there a tight end that every time you went

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Speaker 1: up against that team, Like, I'm sure we'll get into

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Speaker 1: it with these with these two Christiansen Christiansen, you were

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Speaker 1: Todd Christiansen. Okay, uh boy, athletic Todd Christiansen. But Todd

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Speaker 1: would just frustrate our linebackers because he was so un

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Speaker 1: orthodox in his route running. He come across middle, stop,

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Speaker 1: step this way, to step back the way and keep

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Speaker 1: going in that direction. Third down, the ball is going

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Speaker 1: to Todd christians put two people on him. He's still

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Speaker 1: going to get the ball. And of course Ozzy Ozzy,

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Speaker 1: you know, the wizard himself. That was our company for me.

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Speaker 1: I remember playing and I used to tell Romo, don't

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Speaker 1: you let Yourny show me up? Don't I called my brother, Hey,

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Speaker 1: I called my sister. He what did Tony do? How

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Speaker 1: many come on? So? Hey, I'm looking. I know what

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Speaker 1: Tony did? We see? We had to wait till the

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Speaker 1: next day to the paper came out. That's how old

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Speaker 1: I am. We're sitting on the bus, were sitting on

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Speaker 1: the bus leaving. We can already see this from me.

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Speaker 1: It was a guy, a guy who's gonna be at

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Speaker 1: this table. It's going to be in the hall. Jason

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Speaker 1: Witten watching him play, looking at this stats like how

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Speaker 1: do the wander to dude get ten catches but fifteen yards?

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Speaker 1: Or it might be temp hundred the next week, and

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Speaker 1: seeing how he came in and out of his rouse

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Speaker 1: was the key with him just sitting here at the

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Speaker 1: table to just as I hear everybody talking, and especially

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Speaker 1: our history in the n f C West, we all

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Speaker 1: we all played at the same time, and we all

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Speaker 1: got to watch each other. And I know whatever I

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Speaker 1: played against you guys. It was it was I wanted

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Speaker 1: to do well, and when you guys did well, it

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Speaker 1: would make me a little upset. I ain't gonna lie.

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Speaker 1: I remember when you both. I think that game you

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Speaker 1: when you came in, you a two hud fourteen yards.

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Speaker 1: I don't even know if I shook your hand after

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Speaker 1: the game. You didn't because we were so COMPETI were

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Speaker 1: so he came into ninety fourth year, we all, hey, Tony,

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Speaker 1: how you doing, man? Yeah? Yeah, go to the Pro

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Speaker 1: Bowl together. We DApp at each other. U now all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden, Well, I remember one time too. I

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Speaker 1: think he came in and he bawled out and I

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Speaker 1: probably the same damage his hand, and that I went

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Speaker 1: down there when I played for the Falcons and I

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Speaker 1: had a great game. Because he's got I was getting

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Speaker 1: off that game. After the game, I'm looking for him.

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Speaker 1: He was gone because I just told her, don't left. Tony,

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Speaker 1: come here and catching all these glasses. Ain't not in

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Speaker 1: my backyard. You come in there any time you hit

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Speaker 1: the Tony, I hate it. I'm on side, you know.

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Speaker 1: I'm watching the defense and see what they're doing. I'm like, okay, look,

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Speaker 1: don't Hey, go double that. Now watch the practice. The

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Speaker 1: guy in practice catching all the balls that's playing were jersey.

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Speaker 1: Then you've been uh finalist for Walter Payton Man of

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Speaker 1: the Year twice. What does that mean to you? It

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Speaker 1: means everything to me because I truly believe we all

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Speaker 1: have this platform for a reason. Obviously, we want to

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Speaker 1: be great football players. I always said I wanted to

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Speaker 1: be the best football players possible. But you have an

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Speaker 1: opportunity to affect a lot of positive change. From my

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Speaker 1: wife and I, we wanted to leave an impact, not

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Speaker 1: only locally but globally. We've been involved with things like

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Speaker 1: sex trafficking, with things like poverty. It was things like

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Speaker 1: the justice system, you know, having an opportunity to be

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Speaker 1: involved with changing people's lives for the better. That's one

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Speaker 1: of my biggest regrets not being more actively involved in

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Speaker 1: the community. Because I came in I had such tunnel vision.

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Speaker 1: It was football seven. And I appreciate you even saying

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Speaker 1: that even if you felt like you didn't do as

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Speaker 1: much as you wanted to, then the opportunity still remains

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Speaker 1: now and I know you are involved in right now.

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Speaker 1: But what I'm saying is there's a time in a

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Speaker 1: place that's a season for everything, and you can encouraging

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Speaker 1: people now with that testimony you just gave, but you

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Speaker 1: can also be affecting change now because it's a continuum.

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Speaker 1: One of the great things about Kansas City was when

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Speaker 1: I first got there, that was an emphasis the team

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Speaker 1: put on it. And every team is different, so I

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Speaker 1: got introduced that right away. It's funny y'all talk about

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Speaker 1: helping the community. I'm coming from Detroit and intercity. I

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Speaker 1: had more problems in house with my family. I've actually

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Speaker 1: impacted more people outside of my family than I've done

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Speaker 1: with my own family. So as I got older, I

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Speaker 1: started to try to focus more on the people that

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Speaker 1: I see, like my kids, and I'm competing with your hall,

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Speaker 1: but I'm competing, you know, personally too, with my own family,

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Speaker 1: and I'm competing with trying to help. It's just a

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Speaker 1: very difficult task and trying to do everything in moderations,

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Speaker 1: but it gets very tough. One thing that we did

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Speaker 1: years ago, we started we called Quiffle the Kelling Winslow

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Speaker 1: Flag Football League. We started that some thirty or five

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Speaker 1: years ago. Because it doesn't matter what size you are,

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Speaker 1: It doesn't matter what you're gender is everybody can play.

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Speaker 1: Everybody can enjoy the game of football in a safe

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Speaker 1: environment and have that camaraderie and the benefits of being

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Speaker 1: on the I just want to go around the table

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Speaker 1: and let's, uh, let's talk about our greatest memory ever

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Speaker 1: on that football fielder And honestly, I think it could

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Speaker 1: be anytime. It doesn't have to be just in the NFL.

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Speaker 1: Let's start with you, Ben, what's been the greatest memory

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Speaker 1: that you've had as a football player After the game.

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Speaker 1: There's always an opportunity when guys come together. You see

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Speaker 1: guys shake each other's hands, you see guys embrace. I

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Speaker 1: remember a regular season game and the Superdome. I had

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Speaker 1: my son come out with me after the game. He

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Speaker 1: knelt down with us and pray with the guys, and

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Speaker 1: I think that those things I'm gonna really remember. It

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Speaker 1: truly is a brotherhood. For me. Obviously, being drafted, even

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Speaker 1: though the seventh round to get that call and people like, well,

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Speaker 1: what about the game? It wasn't so much the Super

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Speaker 1: Bowl because I know I wasn't the only one that

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Speaker 1: dreamed and watched those games on television as the child

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Speaker 1: and never thought that I would be there in the game,

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Speaker 1: winning the game. But truly, if my teammates only knew that,

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Speaker 1: I enjoyed them more than they enjoyed me. I'm a

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Speaker 1: part of this. This brotherhood is something that I will

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Speaker 1: remember for the rest of my life. You have your

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Speaker 1: individual goals and you have your obviously your team goes.

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Speaker 1: And I never had a championship, but I had championship moments,

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Speaker 1: if that makes sense. I mean we won, you know, titles,

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Speaker 1: and we celebrated and I remember all four we had

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Speaker 1: one and we hadn't one and some ten years. To me,

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Speaker 1: that was like a super Bowl. We celebrated that like

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Speaker 1: that was the super Bowl. Because you have the days

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Speaker 1: of sacrificing commitment, training. I've been with those guys for

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Speaker 1: years in the trenches, and those become your brothers, those

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Speaker 1: becoming your family. And I think that's what you missed

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Speaker 1: the most. Wow for me. Of course, everybody brings up

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Speaker 1: the Miami game. I hear about the Miami Game every

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Speaker 1: day of my life. If I leave the house, Uh, somebody,

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Speaker 1: you really pass out? It wasn't It was more. I

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Speaker 1: was nominated supporting you know, the sports movie, and I

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Speaker 1: didn't win. There was like drama, drama, you put, We're

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Speaker 1: gonna shoot that picture so we can might get you

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Speaker 1: in there. It's like the Michael Jordan game picture to

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Speaker 1: me all the time, they're like, this is what we need,

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Speaker 1: a tight end. Carry it off and living off that

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Speaker 1: picture for years the they bring it up. I hear

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Speaker 1: about it every day. But so much happened behind the

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Speaker 1: scenes during that game, before the game, during the game,

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Speaker 1: and after the game, which really just points back to

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Speaker 1: you're only as good as people you played with. You're

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Speaker 1: only as good as people you surround yourself with. My

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Speaker 1: life has been a fairy tale being selected by the

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Speaker 1: profit Ball of Fame. It's a Disney movie. I love it.

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Speaker 1: I appreciate it, but sometimes I just don't feel worthy

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Speaker 1: of it. I had never won a playoff game. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I was in Kansas City twelve years and into the

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Speaker 1: playoffs three times and lost every time. When I got

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Speaker 1: to Atlanta, playing on a really good football team out there,

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Speaker 1: I think it was my my fourth year there. So

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Speaker 1: year sixteen, going into the playoffs again and we're playing

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Speaker 1: in the Seattle Seahawks, and and we we were questioning them,

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Speaker 1: We're doing really well, and then all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: Russell Wilson and Cam Chancer and all those guys. They

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Speaker 1: started coming back and they took over the lead. With

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Speaker 1: thirty one seconds left, we get the ball. We have

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Speaker 1: no time mount set and we got to go down

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Speaker 1: and get in field goal range right away. And we're

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Speaker 1: out there and I remember I caught the ball. Our kicker,

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Speaker 1: Matt Bryan kicked the field goal. After that, I'm crying.

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Speaker 1: It's the first time, every one. I never won a

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Speaker 1: Super Bowl, but we celebrated. Like you said, I celebrated.

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Speaker 1: I feel like I want to sup because I was

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Speaker 1: so happy and so excited. That's really what what this

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Speaker 1: game is all about. And I love coming here with

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Speaker 1: you guys, h and I appreciate you guys were coming up.

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Speaker 1: This has been the NFL Legends podcast. To provide feedback,

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Speaker 1: I can request a topic for discussion. Email us at

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Speaker 1: NFL Legends at NFL dot com. Yeah,