1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:03,680 Speaker 1: You and Me Both is a production of I Heart Radio. 2 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:09,000 Speaker 1: I'm Hillary Clinton and this is You and Me Both, 3 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:12,080 Speaker 1: where I get to talk to people whose perspective I 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:16,479 Speaker 1: really want to hear from Right now today, that person 5 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 1: is Gretchen Whitmer, the governor of Michigan. Gretchen Whitmer is 6 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:25,120 Speaker 1: someone whose career I have followed with great interest in admiration. 7 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 1: She's a lifelong Michigander. She served in the Michigan State 8 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:34,160 Speaker 1: House was the state Senate minority leader for almost a decade. 9 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 1: She is the second woman to serve as governor of 10 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:40,839 Speaker 1: Michigan and one of just nine women governors in the US. 11 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 1: Just last night, on the heels of another record breaking 12 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:49,200 Speaker 1: week for coronavirus cases in Michigan, Governor Whitmer announced new 13 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:53,520 Speaker 1: restrictions to contain the virus, including stopping in person classes 14 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 1: at high schools and colleges. As she rightly pointed out, 15 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 1: the situation has never been dire. We are at the 16 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 1: precipice and we need to take some action. This is 17 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 1: not the first time she's made headlines for her leadership 18 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: and taking strong, effective measures during this pandemic. People all 19 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 1: over the world followed the story of the white supremacists 20 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:23,119 Speaker 1: and militia groups that plotted to kidnap and kill her 21 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:27,200 Speaker 1: just last month. I think it's safe to say that 22 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:30,760 Speaker 1: Michigan and Governor Whitmer are at the epicenter of some 23 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:34,959 Speaker 1: of the biggest issues affecting our country right now. I'm 24 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 1: so glad she could join us in the midst of 25 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 1: all of her other responsibilities for this very timely conversation. 26 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:46,959 Speaker 1: Hello Gretchen, Hi there, How are you, Madam Secretary? Oh 27 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 1: my gosh. All the better for seeing you and for 28 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:53,560 Speaker 1: you making time to talk with me today. Are you 29 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 1: kidding me? You're one of my heroes. I'm so glad 30 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 1: to be with you. Well, I I really was so 31 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 1: looking forward to talking with you. But you should also 32 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 1: know that on my podcast, we ask listeners to recommend 33 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 1: people that they would like to hear me talk with, 34 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 1: and your name was by far at the top of 35 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 1: the list. So it's not only a great personal pleasure 36 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 1: and really honor to talk to you, but it's something 37 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 1: that our listeners have been holding out for, and I 38 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 1: am really looking to give you a chance to talk 39 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 1: about some of what you've gone through and have done, 40 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 1: because you know, speaking as someone who has been in 41 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 1: the political firestorm and been in leadership positions and studied 42 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 1: others who have been leaders. I'm incredibly impressed at your thoughtfulness, 43 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 1: your courage, your commitment to leading and serving the people 44 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 1: of Michigan. You really are a servant leader, governor, and 45 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 1: that is about the highest company and I can come 46 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 1: up with. As we're talking, it's Monday, November sixteenth. Last 47 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:11,079 Speaker 1: night you held a live briefing and announced that Michigan 48 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 1: was again having to put in place new restrictions because 49 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:20,120 Speaker 1: of the massive surge in COVID cases. What are you 50 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 1: seeing in the data and the science that led you 51 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 1: to feel compelled to take this step. Well, one of 52 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 1: the things that I think as a nation we're really 53 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:33,639 Speaker 1: struggling with is the vacuum of leadership in Washington, d c. 54 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 1: And so it's really fallen to the governors to come 55 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 1: up with strategies as individual states. And in the early 56 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 1: days that meant we were competing with one another to 57 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 1: get nine masks for our nurses and our doctors. We 58 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 1: were overwhelmed. We're getting inconsistent, inaccurate information from the White House, 59 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 1: where we had to correct it. We had to take 60 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 1: pains to come up with our own strate of Gee's 61 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 1: and in the midst of all that, I will say, 62 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 1: I'm grateful that I've got relationships with my fellow governors, 63 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 1: because there are many people who understand all the different 64 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 1: pressures that we are confronting as we make these these 65 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 1: hard decisions. You know, we were hit really hard early 66 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 1: on in Michigan. Detroit was heating up like New Orleans, 67 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 1: New York City, Chicago, and being so early on it 68 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:27,479 Speaker 1: was before we knew that there was going to be 69 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 1: no national stockpile to help save the day or a 70 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 1: national strategy, and so we were on our own. We 71 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 1: took aggressive action. I listened to epidemiologists and public health 72 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:44,279 Speaker 1: experts from Michigan, but also nationally recognized experts, and we've 73 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 1: really crushed oar we say, thousands of lives. We mitigated 74 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:52,680 Speaker 1: the economic pain that people were, you know, confronting, and 75 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:56,599 Speaker 1: that was being imposed on our businesses. But now here 76 00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 1: we are in the fall, there still isn't a national strategy. 77 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 1: By the way, nine months later, and our COVID cases 78 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:08,359 Speaker 1: are climbing exponentially. Part of that is things like other 79 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:11,360 Speaker 1: states not taken this seriously, like South Dakota, where they 80 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:15,239 Speaker 1: had their big Sturgis motorcycle rally that has just brought 81 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 1: COVID into all sorts of Midwest states. Part of it 82 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 1: is rallies in swing states like Michigan, where the Trump 83 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 1: campaign continued to come and not wear masks and packed people. 84 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:29,360 Speaker 1: And part of it is the fall. You grew up 85 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 1: in the Midwest. Our temperatures are plummeting and we're all 86 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 1: going inside. All of these things converging means we've got 87 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 1: COVID spreading like wildfire all across the Midwest, and that's 88 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:44,599 Speaker 1: why we have to take action. Is especially important because 89 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 1: we're in the midst of hopefully transition that ultimately will 90 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:51,360 Speaker 1: become a real transition. But there still isn't that leadership 91 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 1: in Washington, d C. Your initial stay at home order 92 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:59,919 Speaker 1: back in March led to a political standoff with Republican 93 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:04,360 Speaker 1: legislators and your state Supreme Court. And on top of that, 94 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 1: there were white supremacists and militia groups that marched on 95 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:14,280 Speaker 1: your capital, threatened you and others at that time, and 96 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 1: were cheered on by the President. I can't imagine what 97 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:22,920 Speaker 1: it felt like that first time you saw these white 98 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 1: supremacists and militia members converging on your capital. How did 99 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:31,240 Speaker 1: how did you respond to that? Governor? Yeah, so I 100 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:35,040 Speaker 1: was over in the Romney building. So that's named for 101 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 1: Mitt Romney's father, right, who was governor of Michigan. Exactly, 102 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:43,840 Speaker 1: a Republican of you know, distinction and a kind which 103 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:46,800 Speaker 1: doesn't seem to exist much anymore. It's true. I I 104 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 1: always tell people I'm from a mixed household. My dad 105 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 1: was a Republican, but he was a Romney Miliican Republican, 106 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 1: which means he's a Democrat now. But anyway, Um, I 107 00:06:57,320 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 1: was there in the office building and I remember looking 108 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 1: out and it was surprising because there were Confederate flags, 109 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:09,600 Speaker 1: which that's not the usual thing at the capital in Michigan. 110 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 1: We're a Union state, right, I mean, we're proud of 111 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 1: the role that we played in the Civil War. We 112 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 1: had Nazi symbolism. There were dolls with dark hair hanging 113 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 1: from nooses that were depicting me hanging you in effigy, 114 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 1: right exactly. That's happened to me, by the way, So 115 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:31,360 Speaker 1: I can I can relate sadly to what you went through. 116 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 1: I know you can, I mean, And it culminated right 117 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 1: in just a few weeks ago, people channing to lock 118 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 1: her up about me. So I know, I know you 119 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 1: know this better than anybody, but it was really stunning 120 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 1: to see. We were in the midst of the early 121 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:52,440 Speaker 1: days of this global pandemic. It was ravaging our state. 122 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:56,560 Speaker 1: People were dying, our hospitals were filled, we were running 123 00:07:56,560 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 1: out of ppe, and these groups were coming to other 124 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 1: and it was like a Trump rally, it really was. 125 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 1: There's literally a Trump parade flow that was there, and 126 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 1: it was just really surprising because this virus is doesn't 127 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:14,240 Speaker 1: care what your politics are, it doesn't care who you 128 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 1: voted for, where you live. Is a threat to all 129 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 1: of us. And so when we saw that, and then 130 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 1: people showing up with their automatic rifles in the capital, 131 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 1: and they've been many times out on our front lawn 132 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 1: at the residents where my teenagers, I had to explain 133 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:33,559 Speaker 1: why I'm getting death threats and what's happening. But every 134 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:38,319 Speaker 1: single time the President has mentioned me, has tweeted about me, 135 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:44,080 Speaker 1: we see more vitriol, more death threats. It's contributing to 136 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 1: this really dangerous moment that culminated in kidnapping and murder plot. 137 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 1: And just even last night when I made the statement 138 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:56,679 Speaker 1: about we have to tighten some things up to keep 139 00:08:56,720 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: people safe. Scott Atlas tweeted at michigander should rise up. 140 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 1: I mean it's still continuing even after this election. Well, 141 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 1: Scott Atlas, for our listeners who don't know, is the 142 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:14,079 Speaker 1: neurologist from California who is one of the very few doctors, 143 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 1: let alone, he's not an epidemiologist or an infectious disease 144 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 1: specialist who promotes this idea of herd immunity. Let you know, 145 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 1: literally millions die and Trump has uh you know, listened 146 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 1: to him and moved him literally into the White House 147 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 1: where he has issued absolutely false medical assessments, and as 148 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:41,440 Speaker 1: you point out, last night, after you made your announcement, 149 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 1: urged people in Michigan to rise up protests, protect freedom, 150 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 1: all of these slogans that we've come to hear. Ironically, 151 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 1: last night at my house there was a big crowd 152 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: of Trump supporters yelling and screaming, using bullhorns to you know, 153 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 1: insult me in all kinds of exist misogynistic ways. Because 154 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:05,680 Speaker 1: there's no getting away from the fact that of all 155 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 1: the governors that took very quick and restrictive action, you 156 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 1: were the one that Trump went after you were the 157 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 1: one that he called that lady and tried to diminish 158 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 1: and demean. And as you just said, there were people who, 159 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:26,800 Speaker 1: let's be very blunt here, have been influenced by Trump 160 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:31,199 Speaker 1: and his form of destructive and dangerous leadership, who actually 161 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 1: hatched a plot to kidnap and kill you. Now many 162 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:38,560 Speaker 1: of us followed the story of this plot in the news, 163 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:41,720 Speaker 1: But how did you learn about it. What was the 164 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 1: experience you had when you were told about this plot 165 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:50,719 Speaker 1: and what happened from your perspective, I think I infuriated 166 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:53,319 Speaker 1: Donald Trump early on when I acknowledged that there was 167 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: no national strategy to combat COVID nineteen. I think I 168 00:10:57,080 --> 00:10:59,960 Speaker 1: said that back in March, right, speaking truth to power, 169 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:03,840 Speaker 1: And here we are nine months later, and they'd even 170 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:06,080 Speaker 1: give it up on having a strategy. They don't even 171 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 1: try anymore, right, I mean, they don't even like to 172 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:11,840 Speaker 1: talk about COVID nineteen, much less work together to keep 173 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 1: people safe. And so from that day forward, the online vitriol, 174 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:21,679 Speaker 1: the threats had started in earnest, but as this plot 175 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:26,280 Speaker 1: got more pronounced, as it had become, they've taken steps 176 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 1: to actually see it out. The State Police briefed me 177 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:32,840 Speaker 1: on what was happening, maybe a few weeks before the 178 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:35,959 Speaker 1: world found out about it, and I had the opportunity 179 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:37,680 Speaker 1: to sit down with my family and talk a little 180 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 1: bit about it, and to have some pretty hard conversations 181 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:43,840 Speaker 1: with my teenage daughters because I didn't want them to 182 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 1: come across it or to see it on social media 183 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:48,400 Speaker 1: and to be worried. I wanted them to know, we 184 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 1: know this is happening, We're safe, We're okay. But I'll 185 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 1: be honest with you, I don't know if I've processed 186 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 1: it yet. I haven't read all of the affidavits. When 187 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:00,199 Speaker 1: people say I can't believe they did this, for that, 188 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:03,640 Speaker 1: I generally I am not sure what they're talking about 189 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 1: because I cannot be steeped in it. I have to 190 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:09,840 Speaker 1: conserve all of my energy to focus on the work 191 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 1: at hand, which is about saving lives in the middle 192 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 1: of this pandemic, and that's really what my mindset has 193 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:21,760 Speaker 1: been throughout this experience. We'll be right back. I mean, 194 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:25,920 Speaker 1: sometimes you just have to shut out the outside world 195 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 1: when you have a real crisis that you're facing, as 196 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:32,360 Speaker 1: you have now for nine months. You can't get distracted. 197 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 1: Those of us who have followed you. Admire you. I 198 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:41,079 Speaker 1: think did enough worrying for all you and your colleagues 199 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 1: while you could keep compartmentalizing and getting on with your job. 200 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:51,760 Speaker 1: But you know, it raises such terrible, serious questions about 201 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:55,080 Speaker 1: where we are as a country, and if we look 202 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: at our national picture right now, everybody who is willing 203 00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:03,959 Speaker 1: to to be honest and forthright knows Joe Biden won 204 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 1: this election. He is the president elect. Trump is refusing 205 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 1: to concede, and no surprise here, he has continued to 206 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:16,439 Speaker 1: show a total lack of leadership while COVID numbers are 207 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 1: rising so dramatically. And I think about some of the 208 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:25,839 Speaker 1: great leaders you've had in Michigan. John Dingle was a 209 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:29,439 Speaker 1: particular favorite of mine, of course, I'm a close friend 210 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:34,040 Speaker 1: of his wonderful wife, now Congresswoman Debbie Dingle. And he 211 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:37,079 Speaker 1: said something that I have gone back to over and over. 212 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:42,559 Speaker 1: He said, in democratic government, elected officials do not have power. 213 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 1: They hold power in trust for the people who elected them. 214 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:53,839 Speaker 1: That's exactly what you're doing. As such, a contrast with 215 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 1: Donald Trump, what does power mean to you, especially at 216 00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:01,960 Speaker 1: this moment? Well, a wonderful question. I'm not sure I 217 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:06,400 Speaker 1: have a wonderful answer. I'll just say that in the 218 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:10,319 Speaker 1: midst of all of this, I think crisis reveals people's 219 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 1: character and what they're really all about. As I look 220 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 1: across the country, there are some phenomenal governors on both 221 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 1: sides of the aisle, stepping up, taking the mantle to 222 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 1: keep the people of their states safe. None of us 223 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 1: has the perfect response because the novel virus, and we 224 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 1: have to be nimble, we have to learn as we go. 225 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 1: We've got to be quick, we have to act quickly. 226 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 1: But I think about governors who have count out to 227 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 1: the Trump administration and the incredible cost that the people 228 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 1: of those states have paid because of it. The economic costs, certainly, 229 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 1: but the cost in terms of lives lost, in terms 230 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:56,400 Speaker 1: of lives forever impacted. And I never knew, I never 231 00:14:56,480 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 1: contemplated all the challenges that we would have in But 232 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:04,239 Speaker 1: I think, my lucky stars that I've got a phenomenal 233 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 1: team around me, that I was raised to be humble 234 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 1: enough to know where my expertise ends, and to seek 235 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 1: out the smartest people I can find in the midst 236 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 1: of this crisis, to have relationships with my fellow governors 237 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 1: that we can talk through and trouble, shoot and help 238 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 1: one another navigate these times. So I think holding a 239 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 1: position that's this powerful, especially when there's got to be 240 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 1: so much executive action that takes place, is humbling and 241 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 1: it is an incredible amount of responsibility. But I know 242 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 1: that the actions we've taken have saved lives, and no 243 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:43,920 Speaker 1: matter what happens politically down the road, I will be 244 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:46,120 Speaker 1: able to be at peace with the work that we've 245 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 1: done in this crisis. And I have colleagues who I 246 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 1: don't know how they will be able to sleep at 247 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 1: night a few years down the road, and I wouldn't 248 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 1: trade places with them for anything. I agree with you. 249 00:15:56,560 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 1: I think about people who not only at the highest 250 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 1: levels of our national government, like the President, the Vice 251 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 1: president and those who enable them, but people in your 252 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 1: state legislature. You know, people you served with, Gretchen, You 253 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 1: know people who you knew because you were in the 254 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 1: House in Michigan, you were in the state Senate. I 255 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 1: think about the people I served with who are still 256 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 1: there in the U. S. Senate on the Republican side, 257 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 1: who are so intimidated, so cowardly, so unwilling to say 258 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 1: what I know they know better than, and to go 259 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 1: along with Trump. What's that like for you? Dealing with 260 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 1: people that you knew personally, you served with who just 261 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 1: shut down because they're so afraid of whatever this Trump 262 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 1: phenomenon is on the right and in the Republican Party 263 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 1: right now. Well's it's so disappointing. I mean, it's more 264 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 1: profound than that, but I'm struggling to find the right word. 265 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:56,240 Speaker 1: It is stunning to me that anyone would put themselves 266 00:16:56,320 --> 00:17:01,120 Speaker 1: up for these important leadership positions and then sacrifice their 267 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:05,480 Speaker 1: best judgment to coddle someone else's ego or to preserve 268 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:09,879 Speaker 1: their own personal interests in a future election. I just 269 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:13,000 Speaker 1: I'm not built that way, and I don't think it's 270 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:15,680 Speaker 1: even a good political calculation. I mean, when you think 271 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:21,360 Speaker 1: about it, Biden Harris one, Michigan, you know that your 272 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:27,160 Speaker 1: approval rating is very high, commendably so, because your citizens 273 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 1: are seeing what you're trying to do and approving of it. 274 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:35,440 Speaker 1: I just don't even get where the political advantage they 275 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 1: think they are accruing comes from. Trump will be gone. 276 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:41,840 Speaker 1: I know he's not going to leave the scene. He 277 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:46,120 Speaker 1: has to keep feeding his ego and his malignant narcissism 278 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:51,119 Speaker 1: will require that. But all these others who have missed 279 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:56,640 Speaker 1: this leadership moment, who have sacrifice frankly, their reputations, their dignity. 280 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:01,439 Speaker 1: I don't see how it advantages them. Yeah, I think too. 281 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:03,920 Speaker 1: You know, one of the interesting things in this has 282 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:08,040 Speaker 1: been so many leaders who are frustrated because there are 283 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:11,639 Speaker 1: no easy solutions there. There is a political cost to 284 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 1: every decision that is made because we are so polarized 285 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 1: right now, there's such deep divisions. It really struck me 286 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:21,960 Speaker 1: as I watched the Circus. They did an episode and 287 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 1: they focused on me, and they focused on Brian Kemp 288 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 1: in Georgia, and he is getting protested, but he's getting 289 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:32,160 Speaker 1: protested because he's made decisions that have contributed to more 290 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:34,679 Speaker 1: loss of life. And so while I think of the 291 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:37,880 Speaker 1: protests here and certainly the threats on my life though, 292 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 1: that's that's a whole new level and there's a lot 293 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:44,560 Speaker 1: to unpack there. As you mentioned, the gender issues are 294 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:48,360 Speaker 1: are right, but he is dealing with protests down there. 295 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 1: And I think, if you're going to make a decision, 296 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 1: you know a lot of people are going to disagree 297 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:54,879 Speaker 1: with you. Don't you want to make the one that 298 00:18:55,000 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 1: is is the right call, that will say I would say, 299 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:04,119 Speaker 1: because I mean, really, I mean, why is that so complicated? 300 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:08,119 Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know. And and especially you know, 301 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:11,680 Speaker 1: I think it especially calls me because oftentimes it will 302 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:15,000 Speaker 1: be that side that will lecture everyone else about, you know, 303 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:20,320 Speaker 1: life right, And I think that's particularly troublesome that they're 304 00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 1: making political decisions and it's costing American lives. We're taking 305 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:29,720 Speaker 1: a quick break. Stay with us, well, I know you have, 306 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:32,639 Speaker 1: you have a lot of important issues on your plate. 307 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 1: I just want to wrap with two questions that I've 308 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:39,200 Speaker 1: been thinking a lot about. You know, in his victory speech, 309 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:43,720 Speaker 1: President elect Biden called for a nation united, a nation strengthened, 310 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:46,560 Speaker 1: a nation healed. Now that is music to my ears 311 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:49,719 Speaker 1: and I imagine to yours, and a lot of Americans 312 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 1: are eager to begin that healing, but may not think 313 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:57,119 Speaker 1: it's possible. How do you think about that dilemma? What 314 00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:00,959 Speaker 1: would national healing or even Michigan healing look like to 315 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:04,360 Speaker 1: you once we get through these months. We got more 316 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 1: good news today about another vaccine. I'm hopeful that by 317 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:13,919 Speaker 1: April May we're gonna see widespread vaccination available. How do 318 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 1: you think this healing that we all know we need 319 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:20,960 Speaker 1: could go forward. Well, we are in for a couple 320 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 1: of hard months here right This winter is going to 321 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:26,400 Speaker 1: be very difficult, especially in the midst of a transition 322 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 1: of leadership in Washington, d C. But I really do 323 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:33,840 Speaker 1: believe that it's important that we seek to understand. When 324 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 1: I ran for governor, I got into all eighty three 325 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:39,680 Speaker 1: counties of Michigan, and Michigan is a big state, yes 326 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:41,920 Speaker 1: it is. But I got into all ad three counties 327 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:45,440 Speaker 1: because I wanted to connect with people that really understand. 328 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 1: And I think that's important and now more than ever, 329 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:51,160 Speaker 1: and right now it's harder than ever because of COVID 330 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:54,960 Speaker 1: and because it's not safe to connect in the usual way. 331 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:57,240 Speaker 1: But I do think that that's a big part of it. 332 00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:00,120 Speaker 1: I think was Bobby Kennedy said after Martin Luther King 333 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:04,679 Speaker 1: was killed that we must seek to understand. And I 334 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:07,680 Speaker 1: think that's a really important lesson. We have to see 335 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:10,000 Speaker 1: the humanity in one another. And that's why I loved 336 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: the Joe Biden's speech from the Saturday after he was 337 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:18,120 Speaker 1: declared the victor. Me too, I think it's really important 338 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 1: to see the humanity and one another, to seek to understand. 339 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 1: And actually I think find some common ground instead of 340 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:28,600 Speaker 1: scorched earth of the last four years. Amen to that. 341 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:31,680 Speaker 1: And finally, how are you and your family planning to 342 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 1: spend Thanksgiving this year? Can you share with us what 343 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:38,680 Speaker 1: you've got planned? Well, we're gonna zoom with my family. 344 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:41,360 Speaker 1: So my my sister lives not far from you. She's 345 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:44,640 Speaker 1: in Katona. Oh that's right up the road. I know. Well, 346 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 1: that's why I said, if those people show up again 347 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:49,359 Speaker 1: and you want some backup, I'll sign my sister. She's 348 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 1: even tougher than I am. But you know, we're gonna 349 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:54,360 Speaker 1: do a zoom with my sister and her family. They're 350 00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 1: staying in Katona. Usually we'd all be together, but it's 351 00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:59,440 Speaker 1: just not safe and I'm discouraging people from getting together. 352 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 1: So we'll do zoo and my husband and the girls 353 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,639 Speaker 1: and I are gonna each make a type of Christmas cookie. 354 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:08,240 Speaker 1: You have a contest to see who wins. Excellent. We 355 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 1: gotta make it interesting and we'll watch the Lions and 356 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:15,639 Speaker 1: hopefully Detroit Lions will win. Well, I think that sounds 357 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,840 Speaker 1: like a perfect Thanksgiving. And you we usually have a 358 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:21,760 Speaker 1: huge crowd. Of course, we're not having it this year, 359 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 1: so we're trying to divvy up. But I like the 360 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 1: cookie contest. I mean, that's a really good idea. I 361 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:30,159 Speaker 1: may I may steal that from you. Well, Gretchen Whitmer, 362 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 1: thank you so much for not just talking today, that's 363 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 1: a minor piece of thank you in gratitude, but for 364 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:40,960 Speaker 1: your leadership, for your example of the kind of leadership 365 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:45,000 Speaker 1: that our country desperately needs right now. And I wish 366 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:49,800 Speaker 1: you and your family the happiest of thanksgivings and maybe 367 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 1: a little bit of a breather from the heavy responsibilities 368 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:56,639 Speaker 1: that you are exercising. Thank you so much, Oh, thank you. 369 00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 1: It's spend an honor to be here with you. You 370 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:04,439 Speaker 1: and Me Both is brought to you by I Heart Radio. 371 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:08,920 Speaker 1: We're produced by Julie Subran and Kathleen Russo, with help 372 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:14,160 Speaker 1: from Whoma Aberdeen, Nikki E Tour, Oscar Flores, Brianna Johnson, 373 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:20,240 Speaker 1: Nick Merrill, Lauren Peterson, Rob Russo, and Lona Valmorro. Our 374 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:26,159 Speaker 1: engineer is Zack McNeice. Original music is by Forest Gray. 375 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:29,160 Speaker 1: If you like the show, tell someone else about it. 376 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 1: You can subscribe to You and Me Both on the 377 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:36,680 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get 378 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:39,720 Speaker 1: your Podcasts. I wasn't the only one who was eager 379 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:42,560 Speaker 1: to hear from Governor Gretchen Whittner. A lot of our 380 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:46,080 Speaker 1: podcast listeners wrote in to suggest having her on the show, 381 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,760 Speaker 1: and as I told her, that really caught my attention. 382 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:53,160 Speaker 1: If you have ideas for guests, send us an email 383 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 1: at you and me both pod at gmail dot com. 384 00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 1: Come back next week when I talked to three people 385 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:03,800 Speaker 1: who have dedicated their lives to something I love. Food, 386 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:09,639 Speaker 1: we'll hear from Samine nos Rat, Jose Andreas, and the 387 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:13,120 Speaker 1: owner of one of my favorite pizzerias in Troy, New York, 388 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 1: Rocco di Fasio.