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Speaker 1: Welcome to Tech Stuff, a production from I Heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: Hey there, and Welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host,

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Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with I Heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: And how the teg are you? Yeah, I'm still sick.

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Speaker 1: I'm working on it. It's a process, but I don't

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Speaker 1: want to leave you without an episode, and I also

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Speaker 1: don't want to subject you to having to listen to

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Speaker 1: me sound like this for any real length of time.

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Speaker 1: So I thought I would bring you an episode from

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Speaker 1: the show Forward Thinking that we did several years ago.

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Speaker 1: And by we uh, the podcast was was hosted by myself,

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Speaker 1: Lauren Vogelbaum, whom you might know from Savor as well

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Speaker 1: as lots of other stuff, and uh Joe McCormick, who

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Speaker 1: you might know from Stuff to Blow your Mind and

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Speaker 1: other stuff. So Lauren and Joe and I did episodes

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Speaker 1: about futuristic stuff, not always technology, but often technology, and

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Speaker 1: this particular episode is technology related. The title of the

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Speaker 1: episode is your Body as a Computer Interface. I hope

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Speaker 1: you enjoy Welcome to Forward Thinking. Hey there, and welcome

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Speaker 1: to Forward Thinking, the podcast that looks at the future

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Speaker 1: and says I sing the body electric. I'm Jonathan Strickland,

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Speaker 1: I'm Lauren Vocal and I'm Joe McCormick, and uh, guys,

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Speaker 1: this just didn't did did did? Did? Did? Did? Did? Did?

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, it's porky pick Lauren similar no, no, no

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Speaker 1: breaking news. We got a tweet on Twitter from one

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Speaker 1: Chris Newcomb who said, in case your listeners didn't know

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Speaker 1: concrete ships, and he provided a link and and said, hey, kids,

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Speaker 1: swing around this thing for fun. And the link is

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Speaker 1: to a wiki entry for the S S. Palo Alto,

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Speaker 1: which is a concrete tanker ship from World War World

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Speaker 1: War One. Why are we bringing this up? Is it

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Speaker 1: because in a recent episode we made jokes about concrete ships. Yes,

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Speaker 1: that's exactly what we did. In our Building Materials episode,

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Speaker 1: which came out a couple of weeks ago or so,

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Speaker 1: we all had a really good lull about how concrete

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Speaker 1: ships are completely ludicrous idea that no one would ever

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Speaker 1: possibly put into use. I think specifically what happened was

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Speaker 1: we were talking about what you should make out of concrete,

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Speaker 1: and I said, obviously boats. Yeah, I had no idea

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Speaker 1: that this was a real thing. In my defense, because

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Speaker 1: I was the person who immediately struck that down. This

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Speaker 1: ship was retired like in ninety nine and then it

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Speaker 1: broke in half. So but there are totally ships that

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Speaker 1: are made to this day with pharaoh cement, which is

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Speaker 1: a type of concrete that's reinforced with mession rebar and

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Speaker 1: stuff like that. Uh so, so that happens. And I

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Speaker 1: just wanted to wanted to update you guys important news updates. Well,

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Speaker 1: thank you for the info, Chris. I I feel much

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Speaker 1: more educated than I was before. And I also now

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Speaker 1: feel like I have a magic power to make unlikely

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Speaker 1: seeming things real by laughing at them. So what if

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Speaker 1: there was a boat made out of uranium? You know what.

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Speaker 1: As as funny as that is, and as much as

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Speaker 1: I would love to dwell on it, I I did.

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Speaker 1: I did a little bit of research on a totally

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Speaker 1: different topic. Uh yeah. Yeah. First of all, thanks again

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Speaker 1: Chris for sending that message. And we we really love

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Speaker 1: hearing from you guys, and it was awesome learning something

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Speaker 1: that we thought was ridiculous. Uh. Today we're gonna talk

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Speaker 1: about something else that at times comes across as a

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Speaker 1: little ridiculous, which is the idea of one is the

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Speaker 1: future of the kind of the interface that we use

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Speaker 1: between us and our technology. Specifically, what happens when we

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Speaker 1: turn ourselves into that interface? Yes, but in your face

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Speaker 1: is what happens. I guess that kind of is I

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Speaker 1: wanted to do you guys have any like really good

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Speaker 1: terrible interface stories? Well, I mean, just here, did you

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Speaker 1: have a favorite terrible interface? To me, it's not so

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Speaker 1: much a terrible interface as it was a frustrating process

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Speaker 1: of learning how to use it. I'm left handed, and

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Speaker 1: I'm old enough to remember personal computers before the mouse,

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Speaker 1: and when the mouse came along, and then suddenly the

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Speaker 1: mouse was absolutely required in order for you to be

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Speaker 1: able to to navigate through software, it became very difficult

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Speaker 1: for me. Like other folks were picking up on it

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Speaker 1: very quickly, for me, it was more work because I

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Speaker 1: didn't have that kind of fine tuned precision with my

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Speaker 1: right hand the way I do with my left hand,

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Speaker 1: and they didn't have left handed mice, and and by

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Speaker 1: the time they did, I was so used to using

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Speaker 1: my right hand for that I couldn't use a mouse

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Speaker 1: left hand it. I mean, I it felt wrong and

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Speaker 1: and nonintuitive because I had trained myself how to use

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Speaker 1: it with my right hand. But for me, that interface

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Speaker 1: initially at any rate, was not great. But that was

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Speaker 1: again due to my own personal uh, left handedness, my

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Speaker 1: sinister state of being. You know, I think you've probably

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Speaker 1: had experiences with other maybe awkward interfaces. What about Google Glass? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Google Glass. Actually I was all right with Google Glass

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Speaker 1: because I knew going into it what the interface was

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Speaker 1: going to be like. But in general, actually Google is

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Speaker 1: a great example. Just in general, Google, uh is a

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Speaker 1: company that is clearly populated by engineers who have a

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Speaker 1: very specific idea of how to solve a problem, which

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Speaker 1: may or may not translate to any other human beings experience.

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Speaker 1: And so when you use a Google product, you have

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Speaker 1: to kind of learn how to think in the way

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Speaker 1: the engineers were thinking when they designed it, and then

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Speaker 1: it works. But initially it can be very difficult to

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Speaker 1: kind of suss out what you're supposed to do or

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Speaker 1: how you're supposed to get your technology to do the

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Speaker 1: thing you wanted to do. Yeah, we'll show. I mean,

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Speaker 1: there's a learning curve to any kind of interface that

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Speaker 1: you use to to to use technology. I'm still completely

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Speaker 1: mystified by the N sixty four controller designed for someone

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Speaker 1: with three hands. I just speak about it. It just

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Speaker 1: makes me frustrated. It just makes me feel like I'm

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Speaker 1: about to lose and get a turtle shell, right, or

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Speaker 1: the old or the very old Microsoft Xbox Duke controller

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Speaker 1: which was roughly the size of a Volkswagen Beetle like

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Speaker 1: some of those, Or you'll think about some of the

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Speaker 1: really frustrating interfaces that were meant to be groundbreaking, like

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Speaker 1: the power glove. I mean, I don't know if you

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Speaker 1: guys might be too young to appreciate what a terrible,

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Speaker 1: terrible product that was. I never I never owned one.

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Speaker 1: I don't think I even knew anyone who had. I

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Speaker 1: played with one, and it was you would rapidly go

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Speaker 1: from this looks so cool on me too, This is

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Speaker 1: completely useless if I want to actually play a game. Um. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there are a lot of examples of interfaces out there

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Speaker 1: that got in the way, and really what we're trying

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Speaker 1: trying to talk about today is the attempt to get

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Speaker 1: the interface out of the way to have a seamless

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Speaker 1: interaction between us and the technology that we depend upon

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Speaker 1: and want to use. Yeah, okay, so I guess we

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Speaker 1: should do a quick bit of definition just in case

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Speaker 1: you haven't been following us. So much so far you

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Speaker 1: probably have. But just to be clear, what is an interface.

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Speaker 1: It's a system that controls in putting output. It's the

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Speaker 1: interaction between a human and a computer. And so this

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Speaker 1: can be hardware or software. The hardware would be things

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Speaker 1: like a screen where you see what's coming out of

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Speaker 1: the computer you can know what the computer is doing

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Speaker 1: for you. And hardware input like a mouse or keyboard. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And sometimes you can combine input and output into a

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Speaker 1: single device, for example a touchscreen. Classic example inputting output

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Speaker 1: in the same object. But interfaces can also be software.

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Speaker 1: So the classic example is the graphical user interface. Like

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Speaker 1: when you go and use Microsoft Windows, you're interacting with

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Speaker 1: memory in the computer through pictures. You know, you move

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Speaker 1: files around into different folders. Really that's data coded to

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Speaker 1: different locations in the memory, but there's a graphical representation

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Speaker 1: of it for to make it easier for you. You're

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Speaker 1: also executing programs that are represented as a some sort

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Speaker 1: of graphic uh. You know. Of course, if you were

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Speaker 1: using computers before goo ease became a big thing, then

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Speaker 1: you were typing all those commands out and you had

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Speaker 1: to remember what all the different commands were in order

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Speaker 1: for you to do things like navigate to the right

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Speaker 1: directory file directory to execute a file. But the the

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Speaker 1: graphic user interface ends up simplifying that by creating this

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Speaker 1: visually oriented approach to interfacing with the computer. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: so if you look at the history of computing, it's

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Speaker 1: clear that interfaces are always changing, but not necessarily at

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Speaker 1: a constant rate, not like at the rate that processing

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Speaker 1: power seems to steadily multiply over time. Right. Yeah, this

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Speaker 1: is another great example. We've talked about this when we

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Speaker 1: mentioned Kurt's Wile and Kurt's Wild's look at things like

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Speaker 1: Moore's law, and you start to try and uh and

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Speaker 1: and draw conclusions about what the future is going to

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Speaker 1: be like when by using Moore's law as your starting point.

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Speaker 1: But that is really deceptive because, like you're saying, Joe,

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Speaker 1: not everything and not everything progresses at that same speed, right, Well,

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Speaker 1: and and that speed in particular is a little bit ut.

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Speaker 1: What's the word self Oh, there's self fulfilling. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: a self fulfilling prophecy, because no engineer wants to be

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Speaker 1: in the generation that let Moore's law die, you know, Like, no,

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Speaker 1: We've got to figure out another way to double the

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Speaker 1: processing power of this computer within the next eight to

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Speaker 1: twenty four months. Yeah, but but no one has figured

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Speaker 1: out how to double the mouse. Right, Hey guys, I

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Speaker 1: came up with it. I taped a mouse on top

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Speaker 1: of another mouse. It's double mouse. Doesn't really work that way.

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Speaker 1: So early computers didn't have a monitor or display. Right,

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Speaker 1: You would get your output in some other format, Like

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Speaker 1: it could be punch cards. You could get a series

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Speaker 1: of punch cards. You've run your your program through. Your

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Speaker 1: input was punch cards. Your output is a difference set

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Speaker 1: of punch cards, and that's your compiled program. That kind

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Speaker 1: of stuff. Or you might get like a printer that

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Speaker 1: prints along along uh strip of paper like it like

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Speaker 1: tape essentially is what it ends up looking like. Actually,

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Speaker 1: a friend of mine, Richard Garriott, he's known as he's

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Speaker 1: a game designer. His first game that he ever designed

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Speaker 1: printed on tape like that. So every move you made

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Speaker 1: in his little dungeon based crawler, it would print out

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Speaker 1: what that looked like. It was just a very simplified

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Speaker 1: representation of a dungeon, and when you would make a move,

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Speaker 1: it would have to print another sheet out to show

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Speaker 1: you what had happened. The original idea of the interface

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Speaker 1: of the universal touring machine was a strip of paper

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Speaker 1: and which in which calculations would be done one at

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Speaker 1: a time, printed on a long strip of paper. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So eventually we of all beyond that. We got monitors

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Speaker 1: and displays. Uh, we got keyboards, which were much easier

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Speaker 1: to use as an interface with a computer as opposed

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Speaker 1: to just a collection of punch cards. Later on we

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Speaker 1: got the mouse. UM. Xerox ended up Xerox's Park department

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Speaker 1: figured out the mouse and the graphics user interface, although

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Speaker 1: of course it was Apple that took great advantage of

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Speaker 1: that with the McIntosh UM, and so that became like

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Speaker 1: the standard interface for computers and the mouse and keyboard

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Speaker 1: for a really long time. Was that was input? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean you would you had some other like fringe

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Speaker 1: input systems, things like light pens and stuff. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: but the enjoy besides the joystick, the general public really

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Speaker 1: didn't interact dance revolution pad. Yeah. Now these days, we

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Speaker 1: we've gotten to a point where we're seeing a real

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Speaker 1: revolution interfaces revolution a regular right. It's weird that we

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Speaker 1: think of that. We think of like keyboards and mice, mice, mouses,

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Speaker 1: whichever it is. UM this is standard, the standard way

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Speaker 1: to control input right now. Screens are still pretty much paramount,

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Speaker 1: but i'd say that, you know, I bet the majority

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Speaker 1: of our web traffic comes from touch screen devices, not

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Speaker 1: mouse and keyboard driven devices. That's absolutely correct, and you

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Speaker 1: can see it by looking at the metrics. Um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're getting tons of traffic through mobile, and mobile in

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Speaker 1: general is using touch screens. Now, you could also use

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Speaker 1: voice commands for a lot of that mobile stuff if

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Speaker 1: you were so inclined, just your commands to say, okay, Google,

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Speaker 1: how stuff works? Dot Com. I apologize. If you're listening

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Speaker 1: to this on an Android device and you have the

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Speaker 1: speaker active, oh, you could do GEST your control through

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Speaker 1: an Xbox connect or something like that, and they're the

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Speaker 1: leap controller for PCs. There are a lot of the

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Speaker 1: examples of that. We'll talk a little bit more about

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Speaker 1: gest your controls in a bit. But but once you

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Speaker 1: get into gest your control, you're entering a new kind

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Speaker 1: of territory, aren't you, Because they're the issue is uh, well,

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Speaker 1: think about it like this. You're you're using the body

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Speaker 1: itself as part of an interface with a machine. So

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Speaker 1: using the bodies an interface, it's an interesting kind of

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Speaker 1: counterintuitive idea, since an interface is supposed to be the

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Speaker 1: bridge between the computer and the power of the computer

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Speaker 1: and you the user, what you're getting out of it.

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Speaker 1: But if you think about it, we've been bridging this

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Speaker 1: gap for so long with physical devices that are connected

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Speaker 1: to the computer. Why not flip the script and build

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Speaker 1: a bridge in a place that's physically connected to the user. Right,

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Speaker 1: And we've seen some some examples of that as well.

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Speaker 1: You could argue that VR headsets are are getting into

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Speaker 1: that where you are are wearing the computer device and

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Speaker 1: your physical motions are what allow you to experience that

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Speaker 1: computer power in the way it was intended. Sure, or

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Speaker 1: the aforementioned connect sensors, you're you're using your body to interact, Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: We'll be back with more of an episode about your

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Speaker 1: body as a computer interface after these messages. So we're

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Speaker 1: gonna talk about not just ways where you are interacting

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Speaker 1: in order to create input into a device, but also

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Speaker 1: how you experience the output from that device, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So yeah, we should mention some basic ideas in what

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Speaker 1: what what's on offer here in terms of the body

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Speaker 1: is an interface, so the input is probably the more

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Speaker 1: obvious one with input. Instead of pressing buttons on external device,

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Speaker 1: moving a mouse or whatever, you might simply perform an

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Speaker 1: independent action by and of your own body. So this

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Speaker 1: could be gestures, movements, poking yourself, wiggling a part of

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Speaker 1: your body, wiggling multiple parts of your body, other people's bodies. No, see,

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Speaker 1: then it wouldn't be it wouldn't. That wouldn't quite meet

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Speaker 1: the criteria. I think, well, it's still be a body interface,

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Speaker 1: it just wouldn't be your body should have a dead body.

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Speaker 1: I should have a Bernie device that reminds me of

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Speaker 1: a movie that's coming out the go ahead. I think

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Speaker 1: a complicated system of shrugs would be really good, right, yeah, right,

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Speaker 1: so you never have to lose your cool while you're

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Speaker 1: controlling your phone. I meant to. I meant to do

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Speaker 1: the the please tell me more shrug, but it turned

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Speaker 1: out just the shrug, or a combination of side eye

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Speaker 1: and shrug. Anyway, the key ideas that you don't have

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Speaker 1: to touch or manipulate anything except your own body. You've

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Speaker 1: got it with you all the time. So there you go.

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Speaker 1: And it's not this this idea isn't super weird to

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Speaker 1: us because we're already familiar with stuff like the connect

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Speaker 1: and gest your controls to some extent, then if they're

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Speaker 1: not super awesome yet, but then you've also got output.

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Speaker 1: So instead of having to look at a screen that's

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Speaker 1: attached to an external device, which would cover the vast

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Speaker 1: majority of output today, I'm having trouble even thinking of

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Speaker 1: a standard device that has a very different way of

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Speaker 1: doing it than this. Well, I mean there's a growing

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Speaker 1: list of devices that now are using audio. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: things like Amazon's Echo, right, that that would be you're

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Speaker 1: not Yeah, that's a good example, but but I get

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Speaker 1: what you're saying. Yes, the vast majority, I would say,

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Speaker 1: are are visually oriented. So yeah, instead of that, information

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Speaker 1: about your computing task is made available directly to your body.

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Speaker 1: The classic sci fi example of this would be this

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Speaker 1: internal retina display. The screen is projected directly onto your retina.

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Speaker 1: But I mean, that's a little crazy. We probably won't

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Speaker 1: have anything like that for a long time. If ever.

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Speaker 1: Now we have some other examples that we'll talk about

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Speaker 1: when we get to a haptics because that's one of

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Speaker 1: the other methods of getting feedback from a computer that

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Speaker 1: can be meaningful. It's just not visual. Yeah, So I

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Speaker 1: would say the middle step between standard inputting output devices,

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Speaker 1: standard interfaces and this your own body as an interface

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Speaker 1: would be wearables because that's, uh, it's getting close to

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Speaker 1: your own body, but it's not quite your own body yet. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it could be something that is unobtrusive where you might

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Speaker 1: not even think about it consciously after a while after

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Speaker 1: wearing it. Yeah, share like a like a fitbed or

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Speaker 1: the pieces of jewelry that they're coming out with something

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Speaker 1: like that. Absolutely, that was a great example, and fitbed

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Speaker 1: is in fact a fantastic example because so much of

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Speaker 1: that interface is invisible to you. That again it's the

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Speaker 1: idea of removing that barrier. So a fitbit is going

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Speaker 1: to be tracking your steps. You might have other wearables

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Speaker 1: that are doing things like tracking your heart rate, uh,

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Speaker 1: that sort of stuff. Where the data is going to

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Speaker 1: some form of cloud based solution or or potentially just

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Speaker 1: being beamed to a local uh device like a smartphone

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Speaker 1: or tablet. You're still usually dependent upon that other device

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Speaker 1: in order to be able to consume the data in

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Speaker 1: some way. It's presented to you in some way, so

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Speaker 1: it's not like it's directly getting that data to you

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Speaker 1: through the device itself. You're you might have a display

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Speaker 1: on the device that gives you some of the basic information,

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Speaker 1: but your body is not acting as the display, right,

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Speaker 1: it's still the device. Um. It does allow us to

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Speaker 1: have other means of interacting with our technology. Some wearables,

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Speaker 1: you could argue, like the Nintendo Power Glove was a wearable,

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Speaker 1: particularly good one. But it was a wearable. Uh. It

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Speaker 1: was not not obtrusive, not you know, it was definitely

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Speaker 1: you knew someone was wearing one. But it allowed well

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Speaker 1: that was part of the point, right, You wanted to

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Speaker 1: show off that you were playing with power Yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 1: And you had a glove to yea, and you looked

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Speaker 1: a little bit like Michael Jackson in that air a

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Speaker 1: little bit, yeah, which at the time was really important. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because if we couldn't get the jacket, we could at

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Speaker 1: least get the power glove. But the the you all

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Speaker 1: remember the Nightmare on elm Street movie where Freddie wears

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Speaker 1: a power glove. I remember seeing it, don't from my mind,

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Speaker 1: I think it's okay, Oh god, I was so worried

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Speaker 1: about myself for a second there. Okay, now everything's gonna

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Speaker 1: be fine, you guys, it's late at six though I

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Speaker 1: think that probably are on four. But at any rate,

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Speaker 1: I get what you're saying. Um. Yeah, So, so one

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Speaker 1: of the things I wanted to talk about this is

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Speaker 1: kind of a this is looking ahead at wearables. So

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Speaker 1: you could have wearables that are are something that you

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Speaker 1: don't interface with directly at all. It could be you know,

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Speaker 1: we've we've talked about the possibility of things like r

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Speaker 1: F I D chips to have a profile. This is

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Speaker 1: sort the sort of thing that Bill Gates was putting

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Speaker 1: in his house where you would get a little r

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Speaker 1: F I D D badge that would have a profile

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Speaker 1: programmed into it that's personalized to you, and then your

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Speaker 1: experience as you walk through his house would be to

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Speaker 1: see the kind of art that you like, to hear,

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Speaker 1: the kind of music you like. The lighting condition would

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Speaker 1: be to your preference. Uh, it would be dependent upon

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Speaker 1: that profile. We've since reached a point where we can

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Speaker 1: get a little more advanced than that. You don't necessarily

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Speaker 1: have to have a wearable anymore for that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 1: But that was one implementation. Another, however, is this, uh,

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Speaker 1: this this haptics feedback solution that I had been talking about,

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Speaker 1: so being having to do with your sense of touch exactly.

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Speaker 1: So we already are familiar with technology that has haptic feedback.

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Speaker 1: Here's one you're very likely to be familiar with. If

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Speaker 1: you ever played a video game or the control roll

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Speaker 1: or buzzes in your hand you do something, right, that's

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Speaker 1: the old rumble pack, right. Those have been around for

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Speaker 1: for a couple of generations of video game consoles and

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Speaker 1: also for PC controllers, And generally speaking, you you want

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Speaker 1: to have a controller that enhances the experience of playing

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Speaker 1: a game, so it might be a great example would

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Speaker 1: be a stealth based game where you're you're skulking around

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Speaker 1: in the shadows and your controller might start to vibrate

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Speaker 1: to indicate that perhaps you are visible or potentially visible

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Speaker 1: to an enemy, so you need to get back into cover.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, vibration being being like your spidy sense going on.

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Speaker 1: Yeah um. Or if you're if you're playing a horror

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Speaker 1: game and your your life starts getting too low and

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Speaker 1: you start feeling your heartbeat through the controller and that

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Speaker 1: lets you know that you need to drink a health

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Speaker 1: potion or you know, to spell whatever it is right,

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Speaker 1: or unplug the game and going to the corner. Yeah. Uh,

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Speaker 1: if pyramid head is coming around the corner. You just

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Speaker 1: want to like, I just I just need to go

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Speaker 1: and read a happy book for a while. Uh. Or

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Speaker 1: you know. Another one that everyone is probably familiar with

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Speaker 1: are the vibrating motors in uh and and smartphones or

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Speaker 1: cell phones, right, And that's a very simple Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: They maybe they vibrate when you're doing an input, or

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Speaker 1: they vibrate to alert you that a call is coming in.

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Speaker 1: But that's that's the haptic feedback, very basic application of

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Speaker 1: haptic feedback. I don't know if you've ever had the

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Speaker 1: experience of getting so used to this that it's weird

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Speaker 1: when it doesn't happen. I've had this experience with my

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Speaker 1: phone where I don't even notice anymore that when I

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Speaker 1: punch a key to like enter, you know, to enter

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Speaker 1: a letter on a text message or something like that,

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Speaker 1: the phone vibrates a little to register like, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: got that, I got that letter. Uh. And if the

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Speaker 1: it's on very low battery and you go into energy

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Speaker 1: saver mode, it'll stop vibrating when you enter keys, and

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Speaker 1: it feels very weird. You keep wondering like, wait, did

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Speaker 1: that keep did that press? Did it take? In my

400
00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:58,440
Speaker 1: old phone? I actually turned that off because the the

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Speaker 1: it was reminding me of that episode of The I T.

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Speaker 1: Crowd where they soup up Roy's vibrating motor in his

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Speaker 1: cell phone, because every time I would type in a letter,

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Speaker 1: it made a really loud, like eat noise, to the

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Speaker 1: point where if I wanted to check something out and

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Speaker 1: my wife wasn't napping, I would wake her up. So

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Speaker 1: I finally turned it off. My current phone much more subtle,

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Speaker 1: so I'm alright with it. I've never had a phone

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Speaker 1: that did that. Although it did it did scare me

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Speaker 1: every time I was I used to I used to

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Speaker 1: have a fitbit that I would wear constantly, and whenever

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Speaker 1: I went over ten thousand steps in the day, it

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Speaker 1: would it would do this like buzz buzz buzz. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: party times and You're thinking, I'm having a heart attack.

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Speaker 1: Make what's going on? Sometimes sometimes the acclamation period takes

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Speaker 1: a little longer for certain types of technology than others. Well,

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Speaker 1: one of the things I wanted to talk about, and

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Speaker 1: in fact, this was one of the stories that kind

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Speaker 1: of prompted the this entire episode, was this research project

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Speaker 1: some people at the University of Sussex with funding from

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Speaker 1: a couple of different companies and organizations have developed something

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Speaker 1: they call skin haptics, and this is a device that

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Speaker 1: gives haptic feedback but does so without a moving, vibrating

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00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,560
Speaker 1: type of motor having direct contact with your skin. It

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00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 1: actually does it through ultrasonic frequencies. Crazy, right, So I

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Speaker 1: did a how Stuff Works Now piece on this How

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Speaker 1: stuff Works Now for those who do not know. That's

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00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:30,119
Speaker 1: where we at how stuff works post stories that are

429
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:34,080
Speaker 1: happening right now, the kind of newsy type of stuff,

430
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:37,159
Speaker 1: and it tends to be science and technology focus, but

431
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:40,240
Speaker 1: not necessarily. We've done some other things that are outside

432
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:42,280
Speaker 1: of the realm of that, but I tend to focus

433
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:44,640
Speaker 1: on science and technology. A lot of them do since

434
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:47,560
Speaker 1: it's a since it's research that's just coming out right now,

435
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:49,600
Speaker 1: and so so a lot of that has to do

436
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 1: with technology and science. Yeah. So this particular one, they're

437
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 1: using ultrasonic waves that you have a little emitter that

438
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,720
Speaker 1: would go on the back of your hand. So you

439
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:02,919
Speaker 1: would put this emitter down and it would be facing

440
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 1: down towards your palm, you know, through your hand, and

441
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:10,400
Speaker 1: it would admit ultrasonic frequencies. They would move through your

442
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:14,560
Speaker 1: hand through your very flesh and bones and concentrate on

443
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:17,000
Speaker 1: points on the other side so that it would feel

444
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 1: as if something was making contact with the palm of

445
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 1: your hand with like with like focal points on your Okay, okay, sure,

446
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,679
Speaker 1: so imagine that. Imagine that you have a screen projected

447
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:31,159
Speaker 1: on your hand and it's a number pad, and when

448
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 1: you press, not only do you get the feeling of

449
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:36,960
Speaker 1: where your finger touches your hand, you then get a

450
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 1: confirmation through this ultrasonic frequency saying yeah, yeah, you totally

451
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:45,399
Speaker 1: you totally touch the one that butt. Or you're playing

452
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 1: let's say, you know, you're we're really looking in the

453
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:52,240
Speaker 1: future here. You're playing angry Birds on your hand and

454
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:54,159
Speaker 1: you pull your little your little bird back and you

455
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:56,159
Speaker 1: let go and the bird collides with a pig, and

456
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 1: then your your hand vibrates right at the point where

457
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 1: the bird and pig. I did that kind of stuff. Um,

458
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 1: that's the idea behind it. Now, this is just the

459
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:08,159
Speaker 1: haptic feedback part, not the display. Your beautiful fire future

460
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,560
Speaker 1: definitely still includes angry I don't I can't imagine a

461
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 1: future without it, and I don't want to. Uh, but

462
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 1: I was thinking that this this same technology could be

463
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:20,879
Speaker 1: used for stuff where you don't have a display element

464
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 1: at all. So imagine, if you will, a a bicycle

465
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 1: or a car that has sensors on it that can

466
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 1: detect potential obstacles, dangerous collisions, that kind of thing, and

467
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 1: you're you're using this device and it alerts you by

468
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 1: creating pressure on your hand through this mirror, and perhaps

469
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:45,720
Speaker 1: is even telling you almost radar like where that threat

470
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 1: could be coming from, so that you have the opportunity

471
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 1: to react and avoid it. In other words, you have

472
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 1: spidy sense. You could even do this on a personal

473
00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:58,639
Speaker 1: level if you don't mind wearing a super dorky helmet

474
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:00,720
Speaker 1: that's got sensors all over it. Mean, I can't really

475
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,920
Speaker 1: think of any implementation where you would be able to

476
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 1: have sensors mounted in such a way that you didn't

477
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:12,479
Speaker 1: look completely weird, as long as it's modeled after visually

478
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 1: modeled after the calendar that Rick Moranna swears and Ghostbusters, right, Uh,

479
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 1: you know the as the the was he was he

480
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 1: the key master, was he the gate keeper? He was

481
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:27,200
Speaker 1: the key key master. Yeah, he's Vince Claro, key master

482
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:30,960
Speaker 1: of Gozer. Right. Yeah, So, uh, if you for that

483
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,880
Speaker 1: important research, if you want to tell him about the Twinkie.

484
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,159
Speaker 1: So if you want the if you want the key

485
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 1: Master look and you don't mind it and you want

486
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:41,680
Speaker 1: to have spiky sense, then we could probably work something

487
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:45,680
Speaker 1: up once the University of Sussex guys get this completely

488
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 1: ready to go, like ready for prime time. Yeah, but

489
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:51,920
Speaker 1: it's a really cool idea again of using that touch

490
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 1: feedback where the body itself becomes the the method for

491
00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:01,159
Speaker 1: you to uh to experience this technology, and you've stripped

492
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,159
Speaker 1: away anything else, like you don't have a screen or

493
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 1: anything that you're dependent upon. You're just feeling this. Yeah. Yeah,

494
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 1: there's there's no way to to leave the device behind

495
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 1: because it's attached to you. Yeah. Now we could go

496
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 1: the next step, which is where our largest organ, the skin,

497
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:22,680
Speaker 1: becomes an interactive surface, something that you use to interface

498
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 1: with technology like the touch screen on your phone. And

499
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,159
Speaker 1: so today, if you want to read or send a

500
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,640
Speaker 1: text message, you'll usually hold your phone in your hand

501
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:35,399
Speaker 1: and read the text off the screen or type on

502
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 1: the screen by pressing letter buttons with your fingers. I've

503
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 1: actually slowly started to move to voice to text, but

504
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 1: that obviously only works in special situations where you know

505
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 1: it's really annoying when you keep doing that in meetings,

506
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 1: I don't. Yeah, I can't do that anymore in in

507
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 1: meetings or generally in public. But like if I'm on

508
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 1: my own, if I'm walking my dog and I need

509
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 1: to sten a quick text to my wife, I often

510
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 1: will use voice to text um, and then people just

511
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 1: think that I'm married to my dog, which because they

512
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 1: really because because of the messages. Hey honey, do you

513
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 1: mind picking something up on your way home? And I

514
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 1: don't think that dog is gonna be at all cooperative.

515
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 1: It's great when you hear people saying I love you,

516
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 1: babe to a lamp post. Look, don't judge. Okay, you

517
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 1: don't know their love. I saw the brave little toaster,

518
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 1: and that lamp was adorable at any rate. Yeah. So so,

519
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 1: so we've got a device in the way here. Before

520
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 1: we can get to Jonathan's uh perfect Angry Bird's future,

521
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:45,479
Speaker 1: we need to take away that screen, that physical device.

522
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 1: So imagine that same experience sitting there with your phone

523
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 1: in your hand, type in a text message on it

524
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 1: or reading a text message off of it, but without

525
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 1: the phone there. And there's where you get this concept.

526
00:29:56,480 --> 00:30:00,040
Speaker 1: One implementation I saw of this was a thing. It

527
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 1: was from the Hasso plotn Er Institute called the Imaginary Phone,

528
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 1: which was a project by Sean Gustafson, Christian Holtz and

529
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 1: Patrick Bodish and Imaginary Phone. It sounds great on one

530
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 1: hand because it's like an April fool's Prankly you give

531
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 1: somebody a gift, it's oh, it's your new iPhone. It's

532
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 1: an imaginary phone. You we think you're yeah. But so

533
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 1: the last I heard of this project was some media

534
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 1: coverage in two thousand eleven. I don't I don't know

535
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 1: if it's still in the works, but the idea at

536
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 1: least is interesting enough that you could continue it to

537
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 1: be adapted with new hardware. And here's the basic way

538
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 1: it works. And you wear a depth sensitive camera on

539
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 1: your chest um, and then you hold out your hand

540
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 1: in front of you, palm side up, and then you

541
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 1: interact with your own hand the same way you'd interact

542
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 1: with the phone screen. You know, you press parts of it,

543
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 1: and the camera tracks your movements and sends them to

544
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 1: your phone or other device as input commands. So different

545
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 1: place is on your hand correspond to different inputs on

546
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 1: a phone screen. To swipe across your fingers will swipe

547
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 1: the screen. You can dial numbers by pressing different parts

548
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 1: of your palm um. And that's interesting in terms of input,

549
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 1: but obviously if you're just looking at your hand, that

550
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 1: sounds like a kind of annoying thing to learn to do. Sure. Yeah,

551
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 1: I have a really hard time typing texts out when

552
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 1: I can see the letters on the screen, So I'm

553
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 1: picturing that that wouldn't go very well for me. Yeah,

554
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 1: and so what about the You basically need a corresponding display. Uh.

555
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 1: The appeal of the touch screen is that you you

556
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 1: can see what you're interacting with and perform your interactions

557
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 1: in the same place. And that that brings us to

558
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 1: this idea of projected displays on skin, which inherently isn't

559
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 1: there's no real problem with that except that it just

560
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 1: requires some good, non invasive, comfortable design and some good engineering.

561
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 1: I guess we've got more to say about using your

562
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 1: body as a computer interface after this. So one project

563
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 1: I came across that was trying to do something like

564
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 1: this was the Secret Bracelet Projects Secret c I c

565
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 1: R E tn't. Maybe you're supposed to keep it secret,

566
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 1: keep it safe. Anyway, there was some coverage of this

567
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 1: project back and the idea is it's a bracelet. It

568
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 1: looks kind of like a jawbone up, you know, it's

569
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 1: a bracelet that has a low angle projector on it

570
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 1: that projects a display onto the surface of your forearms.

571
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 1: So you wear it on your wrist and it projects

572
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,160
Speaker 1: at a low angle up onto your skin on your arm.

573
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 1: And if you go watch the the original video promo

574
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 1: for the project, you will see animations that are I

575
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 1: mean obviously that they are animations, because it was before

576
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 1: the thing was made, just trying to say, here's the

577
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 1: concept type of thing, probably just a concept, here's the concept.

578
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 1: And you could see that people were mad that it

579
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 1: was it was making it look like these displays would

580
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 1: be incredibly sharp and beautiful looking. Um, and that's probably

581
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 1: not going to be the case, especially early on, and

582
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 1: they might have been optimistic. But now there are prototypes.

583
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,640
Speaker 1: I've seen videos of them being used, and the image

584
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 1: quality in the real world it might not be amazing,

585
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 1: but also it's not too bad. And that also might

586
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 1: not be that big of a deal, because what if

587
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 1: you're not really planning on watching movies on your arm,

588
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 1: but what if you just wanted to be able to

589
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 1: use your arm to send a text message or something

590
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 1: without having to mess with a device, get a device

591
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:43,560
Speaker 1: out of your pocket and deal with it. Um. Yeah,

592
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 1: it's an interesting idea. It's one of those where a

593
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 1: lot of the ones we're talking about now you still

594
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 1: have to pair it with right. So then the question

595
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 1: is is the benefit of whatever this body interface is

596
00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 1: that benefit greater than the frustration you might have of

597
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 1: just taking your phone out and doing these things. One

598
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 1: of the things I was first thinking about when you're

599
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:09,320
Speaker 1: talking about typing stuff on your palm with the earlier

600
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 1: implementation was well, what if you wanted to make a

601
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:13,400
Speaker 1: phone call, you would still have to get your phone out.

602
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 1: And then I thought, wait, no, you're making a rookie mistake, Jonathan.

603
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:19,760
Speaker 1: No one uses their phones to make phone calls anymore.

604
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 1: So I don't even know why that crossed my mind,

605
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:26,000
Speaker 1: because I'm a dinosaur, is really what I'm getting at.

606
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 1: But another I haven't had a good Jobathan Age joke

607
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 1: in a really long time. Well, we haven't. We haven't

608
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:34,480
Speaker 1: ever had a good Jonathan Age. I think I think

609
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 1: Jonathan made some get off my lawn jokes just last week. Okay,

610
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:40,239
Speaker 1: to be fair. I also talked about acid rain in

611
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:43,320
Speaker 1: the episode we recorded immediately before this, and talked about

612
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 1: growing up the eighties and being afraid of communists, so, which,

613
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 1: by the way, was a product of the time. Um So,

614
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 1: one of the other things I want to talk about

615
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,280
Speaker 1: about bodies and interfaces doesn't have to do with displays.

616
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:58,840
Speaker 1: We talked about the haptic feedback, We talked about visual feedback.

617
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 1: What about audible feedback? Using your body to make sounds

618
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 1: and not in like a middle school kind of way

619
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:10,400
Speaker 1: where you're you're showing your friends how hilarious you are

620
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:13,399
Speaker 1: by utilizing your body to make various fart noises. That's

621
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 1: not what I'm talking about, sure, and I mean and

622
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:18,840
Speaker 1: I mean we're we're making sounds with our bodies right

623
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:20,920
Speaker 1: this very much. But what if we could it's a

624
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:23,880
Speaker 1: relatively easy system. What if we could make that that

625
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:30,360
Speaker 1: whole process more convoluted and creepy like instead of instead

626
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:33,759
Speaker 1: of just talking to you like a human being, I

627
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 1: you and I would still have to be in the

628
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:37,759
Speaker 1: same space for this to work, But then we make

629
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 1: it super creepy. And by creepy, I mean creepy. Well,

630
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 1: I'll explain what I'm talking about, and you tell me

631
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:46,799
Speaker 1: if I'm off base calling this creepy. The system I'm

632
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 1: talking about is called Insian denshion um and this was

633
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 1: a a concept out of Disney research actually, and it

634
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:58,799
Speaker 1: is all about turning your body into a transmitter um

635
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 1: and it's pretty well key. So think of one person

636
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:05,800
Speaker 1: being the transmitter. This would be someone who's like the speaker,

637
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 1: as in the person speaking, not not a speaker in

638
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 1: the electronics sense, and the other, yeah, the other person

639
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:19,880
Speaker 1: is the receiver or the listener, and together you end

640
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 1: up creating a speaker in the sense of electronics. So

641
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:28,399
Speaker 1: the transmitter person speaks into a microphone, and presumably they're

642
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:32,359
Speaker 1: saying something quiet enough so that the other person isn't

643
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:34,880
Speaker 1: hearing it, so they might be whispering something like a

644
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 1: like a I want to go to lunch today, and

645
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 1: you whisper it into your microphone. The microphone transmits that

646
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:45,840
Speaker 1: that sound wave. It actually transforms it into a high frequency,

647
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:51,240
Speaker 1: low power electrical signal which your body can carry because

648
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 1: our bodies actually can conduct electricity. So then yeah, yeah,

649
00:36:57,400 --> 00:36:59,799
Speaker 1: too well in some cases, which is you know, that's

650
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 1: you've got to be real careful around electricity. But one

651
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:06,080
Speaker 1: of the many reasons you should be. But let's say,

652
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:08,200
Speaker 1: all right, you've got this microphone, you've just whispered something

653
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:11,440
Speaker 1: into it. It's now transmitting a low power, high frequency

654
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:14,279
Speaker 1: electrical signal through your body. You then walk up to

655
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:16,640
Speaker 1: the person who is the receiver, and then you just

656
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:20,319
Speaker 1: casually reach out and put your finger on that person's ear.

657
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 1: This is the part where I think it's kind of creepy.

658
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 1: And then the connection that you make with that other

659
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:31,880
Speaker 1: person connection, that's what allows this area to suddenly become

660
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:35,440
Speaker 1: like a speaker, and the person whose ear you're touching

661
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:37,839
Speaker 1: will be able to hear the thing you've whispered into

662
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:42,320
Speaker 1: the microphone. Uh So, it's also interesting in that you

663
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:46,240
Speaker 1: can extend this by having multiple people involved. It's almost

664
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 1: like playing a game of telephone that you could whisper

665
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:52,320
Speaker 1: something into the microphone, put your hand on someone's shoulder,

666
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:54,440
Speaker 1: they put their hand on the next person's shoulder, and

667
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:57,120
Speaker 1: the next person, and then that person puts their finger

668
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 1: to the recipient's ear. They would hear what you had

669
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:03,799
Speaker 1: originally whispered into the microphone. I don't know that there

670
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 1: is any practical application of this technology. It's just another

671
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:11,239
Speaker 1: weird way of turning the body into an actual interface.

672
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:13,239
Speaker 1: You know, I do try to keep an open mind,

673
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:18,279
Speaker 1: but but burn all this with fire. I don't really

674
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 1: like it when people touch my ears. Yeah, I I like.

675
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:24,759
Speaker 1: I like listening to a s MR videos in which

676
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:27,360
Speaker 1: there is an ear massage element going on. But the

677
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:30,120
Speaker 1: actual thought of someone physically coming up and touching my

678
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:33,480
Speaker 1: ears squeegs me out a little. I feel like that's

679
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:35,520
Speaker 1: a violation of personal space that I'm not ready to

680
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 1: deal with casually. That's something that should be left up

681
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:45,319
Speaker 1: to U two con alright with exactly this is CLF

682
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:48,400
Speaker 1: of five. I mean I could I could see it

683
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:54,799
Speaker 1: being used in uh, in some other way of transmitting information. Um, well,

684
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 1: it could be an interesting way of being able to

685
00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 1: transmit information quietly, but you still have to speak in

686
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:01,759
Speaker 1: to the microphone the first time. Well, I mean, if

687
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 1: it wasn't using if it wasn't using sound waves, if

688
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:06,920
Speaker 1: if something, if if you could hook yourself up to

689
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:09,920
Speaker 1: some kind of device that would read that not uh,

690
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 1: not literally out loud in your ear, but that would

691
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:14,880
Speaker 1: that would read the information and be able to I

692
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 1: don't know, uh, yeah, I don't know. You couldn't because

693
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 1: you couldn't do it to yourself because you wouldn't be

694
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:25,399
Speaker 1: creating a full connection. You have to be touching somebody else.

695
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:26,920
Speaker 1: So I mean, I mean some something like like, oh,

696
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 1: here's my business card handshape. I could see some game

697
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:38,200
Speaker 1: elements in there too, But again it's a little little

698
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:41,480
Speaker 1: wacky and little weird, but it was an interesting way

699
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 1: of looking at turning the body into an interface if

700
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 1: you wanted to go the next step, Like let's say

701
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:50,080
Speaker 1: we've gotten past the wearable stage. I think a lot

702
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 1: of people are imagining the body as interface with embedded technology,

703
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 1: stuff that would be incorporated into us if you're really

704
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:04,440
Speaker 1: desirous of surgery. Yeah. Uh And according to Repo the

705
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 1: Genetic Opera, there is totally a group that's in there. Um.

706
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 1: But yeah, this would be where you would actually have

707
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:15,040
Speaker 1: some sort of technology is embedded in you. And obviously,

708
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:19,719
Speaker 1: at this point we're talking pure speculation. There's not examples

709
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:22,800
Speaker 1: of this beyond stuff that bio hackers are doing, and

710
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:25,360
Speaker 1: even in that case, they tend to be incredibly primitive

711
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:29,279
Speaker 1: applications of technology. Uh. And it may be that we

712
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:31,960
Speaker 1: won't see this kind of stuff for quite some time.

713
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 1: For lots of reasons. Now, we do have examples of

714
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:41,120
Speaker 1: embeddable technology biotechnology generally speaking, though they are designed to

715
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 1: address a problem. Like let's say that someone wishes to

716
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 1: they have a visual impairment that they want to overcome,

717
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 1: that there might be technology they use in order to

718
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:56,120
Speaker 1: supplement their eyesight or their hearing with like cochlear implants,

719
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:59,400
Speaker 1: that kind of thing. Now we've got examples of that,

720
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:02,360
Speaker 1: while we don't really have our examples of attempts to

721
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:08,959
Speaker 1: enhance already quote quote normal or within the norm kind

722
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:12,480
Speaker 1: of of human capabilities. And I hate using that phrase,

723
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 1: but that's the way it tends to be frame. I mean, well,

724
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:17,880
Speaker 1: and medically speaking, there is there is, there is an

725
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:20,759
Speaker 1: average or normal, and it's and it's not meant to

726
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 1: but absolutely yeah. And and the and of course that

727
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 1: the problem there is is that any responsible medical person

728
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 1: isn't going to recommend I mean, I mean, surgery is

729
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:32,960
Speaker 1: always dangerous. Getting an implant of any kind is always

730
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 1: going to carry an element of of You could get

731
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:38,080
Speaker 1: an infection and can go terribly wrong, like an your

732
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:41,480
Speaker 1: body could could reject whatever it was that was implanted. Yeah, yeah,

733
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:43,959
Speaker 1: it could scrip your immune system for that reason, lots

734
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:46,759
Speaker 1: of things like that. So therefore, and we talked a

735
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:48,960
Speaker 1: little bit about this in our Hacking Your Body episode

736
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:51,640
Speaker 1: back when. Yeah, and there are other things obviously that

737
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:54,879
Speaker 1: you have to keep in mind, things like the technology's

738
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 1: battery life. How do you recharge a battery? What is it?

739
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 1: Is it drawing power from the person in some way?

740
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:04,160
Speaker 1: How can you create something that you make sure that

741
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:08,360
Speaker 1: it'll it'll work within the body and not break down

742
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 1: or otherwise end up falling apart within a certain amount

743
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 1: of time because the body, I don't know, if you know,

744
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:18,960
Speaker 1: this not the most hospitable environment for technology. Yeah, yeah,

745
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 1: it's there's there's that rest thing that we were talking

746
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 1: about oxidizing. Yeah, yeah, that's a that's an issue, right, Yeah,

747
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 1: you know, bad guacamole in the bloodstream. That's not something

748
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 1: we want to mess around with, right, And there are

749
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 1: there are lots of researchers who are working on ways

750
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 1: to to get that to be better. Yes, you know,

751
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:41,320
Speaker 1: specifically for things like like a like a heart monitors

752
00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:44,919
Speaker 1: and and and whatever. But but it may be quite

753
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:46,879
Speaker 1: some time even if we get to a point where

754
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:51,400
Speaker 1: the technology is reliable, where it's safe, where where the

755
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:55,839
Speaker 1: the potential for complications is as low as we can

756
00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:58,920
Speaker 1: possibly make it, there's still going to be a barrier

757
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 1: there where the medical profession in general may see it

758
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 1: an ethical issue of do I do I do this?

759
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:11,760
Speaker 1: Uh cosmetic It would essentially be akin to cosmetic surgery,

760
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:17,160
Speaker 1: but possibly with far greater UH ethical concerns than your

761
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 1: average cosmetic surgery. Is it ethical for me to perform this?

762
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:25,480
Speaker 1: Am I going to risk my my livelihood if I

763
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 1: were to do this? And then you might eventually get

764
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:33,479
Speaker 1: to a point where socially it's more accepted, but there's

765
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:38,200
Speaker 1: probably gonna be a lag between when people are actively

766
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:41,840
Speaker 1: advocating to get this done to themselves and when it

767
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:45,759
Speaker 1: becomes socially acceptable in general. And and that period is

768
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:49,080
Speaker 1: going to be interesting to watch and find out, like

769
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 1: how it'll it'll almost help determine how long it takes

770
00:43:53,480 --> 00:44:01,399
Speaker 1: to adopt that as uh a perfectly standard kind to practice. UM,

771
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:03,799
Speaker 1: then there comes a question of hals versus have nots.

772
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 1: There are other conversations that happened further down that line

773
00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:10,240
Speaker 1: which fall more into that singularity conversation we've had multiple

774
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:13,439
Speaker 1: times in this show. Now, the cool thing I think

775
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:17,520
Speaker 1: is that you could argue a lot of the technologies

776
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:20,640
Speaker 1: we're seeing right now are negating the need for surgery

777
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:23,840
Speaker 1: in the first place, and it's largely through things like

778
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:30,440
Speaker 1: machine learning, artificial intelligence, predictive technologies, very simple sensors working

779
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:35,840
Speaker 1: on very complicated algorithms to respond to our needs in

780
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:40,279
Speaker 1: a way where we we become unaware that our environments

781
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:45,360
Speaker 1: are adjusting to us without our direct command. So a

782
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:47,680
Speaker 1: very simple example of this would be something like a

783
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:52,360
Speaker 1: Nest thermostat or some other smart thermostat, where it starts

784
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:56,200
Speaker 1: to learn quote unquote what you like, what your preferences

785
00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:58,920
Speaker 1: are that maybe you like it pretty chilly at night,

786
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:00,759
Speaker 1: but you like to wake up to a nice, warm,

787
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 1: toasty house, or or it's recognizing when you are home

788
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:08,120
Speaker 1: versus when you are not home, and thus adjust the

789
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:12,000
Speaker 1: temperature so that you are being uh, you're conserving energy

790
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:13,800
Speaker 1: whenever you're not in the house, and you're not just

791
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:17,400
Speaker 1: wasting electricity. Although that that is still through through the

792
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 1: pairing of a device. Yeah, it's pair well, it's pairing

793
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:24,279
Speaker 1: a device through a WiFi network. You don't necessarily have

794
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:27,680
Speaker 1: to have it paired to uh, like a smartphone or anything.

795
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:31,320
Speaker 1: But the interesting thing is it is detecting when you

796
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:35,279
Speaker 1: are there. It's detecting what you want, and it's responding

797
00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:40,759
Speaker 1: without you having to make a direct command, although there's

798
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:43,120
Speaker 1: an acclamation period at the beginning where you are making

799
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:45,920
Speaker 1: those commands. Otherwise it doesn't know. It's not like the

800
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:49,359
Speaker 1: thermostat takes a look and like, uh, this bald guy,

801
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:52,520
Speaker 1: he's gonna want its seventy degrees. I'm just gonna go ahead,

802
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 1: and no, I gotta tell it that I wanted seventy

803
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:57,439
Speaker 1: degrees first. So I think what you're saying is we're

804
00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:00,440
Speaker 1: all going to get thermostats implanted in our bodies so

805
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:03,480
Speaker 1: we can be seventy degrees on the inside. That is

806
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:06,160
Speaker 1: not what I was suggesting, But it always is interesting

807
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:10,719
Speaker 1: to get an insight into your thought process. Show Um. Yeah,

808
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:13,799
Speaker 1: so but my point you think how much energy you'd

809
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:15,520
Speaker 1: say if you didn't have to make the whole house

810
00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:18,560
Speaker 1: seventy degree just your own body. And my point being

811
00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:21,040
Speaker 1: that we are seeing some technologies come into play where

812
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:24,400
Speaker 1: our bodies are in a way becoming an interface. But

813
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:28,719
Speaker 1: it's through it's not through a conscious effort for us

814
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:31,920
Speaker 1: to control that technology. The technology is responding to us.

815
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:35,680
Speaker 1: And if we see that increase. In other ways, it

816
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:41,000
Speaker 1: may turn out that the more invasive approach becomes moot.

817
00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:44,480
Speaker 1: We don't need it because we're able to compensate with

818
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 1: other technologies that are able to do these things through

819
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:50,680
Speaker 1: machine learning. We got a bit more show to go.

820
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:54,520
Speaker 1: But uh, before we get to that, let's take one

821
00:46:54,600 --> 00:47:05,080
Speaker 1: last break. Well when yeah, when you speak of the

822
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:10,239
Speaker 1: ways our the ways technology is adapting and learning from

823
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:14,520
Speaker 1: us without our knowledge, I mean I wonder about you know,

824
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:16,719
Speaker 1: is Facebook going to get to the point where it

825
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:21,239
Speaker 1: uses the camera on my computer to look at my

826
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:25,680
Speaker 1: face and see what disgusts me and show me more

827
00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:28,919
Speaker 1: of that because I'm more likely to click on it. Yeah,

828
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:31,840
Speaker 1: I mean there are certainly privacy concerns with this this

829
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:34,800
Speaker 1: particular approach, and and we've already whether whether or not

830
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:37,320
Speaker 1: it's a privacy concern. Let's say I authorize them to

831
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:40,759
Speaker 1: do it. I mean, either way that they're responding to

832
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:44,320
Speaker 1: your unconscious cues that you give with your face and

833
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:47,120
Speaker 1: your eyes and everything like that. Yeah, I mean, that's

834
00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:49,839
Speaker 1: that's something that I'm sure there are people looking into.

835
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:52,000
Speaker 1: I mean, but one the next thing we're going to

836
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:55,319
Speaker 1: talk about where our micro expressions micro expressions being these

837
00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:59,560
Speaker 1: these very tiny gestures you can make sometimes unconsciously, and

838
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:04,360
Speaker 1: how people are hoping to turn those micro expressions into

839
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:08,239
Speaker 1: a way to interface with technology, largely because I think

840
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:10,160
Speaker 1: most of us don't want to have to make big

841
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:14,160
Speaker 1: gestures on our bodies in order to control technology. Would

842
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 1: be better to do very subtle things. Yeah, there has

843
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:19,719
Speaker 1: to be some kind of happy medium between having to

844
00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:23,840
Speaker 1: make flag symaphore motions that you're connect and uh and

845
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:28,719
Speaker 1: having a brain implant. That's that's directly reading please now, chicken, dance,

846
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:32,800
Speaker 1: d answer this phone call right right. Yeah. There's so

847
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 1: many great comedy sketches that could be a result of

848
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:39,120
Speaker 1: this conversation. But there was a piece that was written

849
00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:42,560
Speaker 1: in Fast Code Design. Uh Andy Goodman and Marco Reghetto

850
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:49,520
Speaker 1: wrote there that that design company Feord Yes, yeah, yeah,

851
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:52,360
Speaker 1: and uh and we'll come back to that towards the

852
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:55,759
Speaker 1: end of it too. But it's they were arguing that

853
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:59,680
Speaker 1: the motions we make with body interfaces should be minimalistic,

854
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:02,960
Speaker 1: end that there's already precedent for this when you are

855
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:05,080
Speaker 1: moving a mouse. This is one of those problems that

856
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:06,719
Speaker 1: I had when I was learning how to use a

857
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:10,800
Speaker 1: mouse with my right hand. Uh, the small motions you

858
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:15,200
Speaker 1: make are translated into larger motions among on screen. Right,

859
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:18,279
Speaker 1: So when you when you move the cursor on your screen,

860
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:20,720
Speaker 1: you don't have to move the mouse the same distance

861
00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:24,000
Speaker 1: on your desk as what you're seeing on your screen.

862
00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:27,280
Speaker 1: At least you shouldn't. Right. If you are, there's a problem,

863
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:30,560
Speaker 1: you need to change some settings. But generally speaking, like

864
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:33,640
Speaker 1: you might move your mouse over an inch, but you

865
00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:37,560
Speaker 1: are moving the equivalent of like five inches on the screen. Well,

866
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:39,760
Speaker 1: I mean, do you do you remember when the Nintendo

867
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:43,440
Speaker 1: we came out and how long it took people not

868
00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:46,400
Speaker 1: that long to figure out that all these games that

869
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:50,080
Speaker 1: were supposedly about like doing big motions and getting exercise,

870
00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:52,359
Speaker 1: you could actually just sit right there on the couch

871
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:55,719
Speaker 1: and kind of flick the controller to accomplish the same thing. Yeah,

872
00:49:55,719 --> 00:49:58,320
Speaker 1: there was a specific flick of the wrist. There was

873
00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:00,799
Speaker 1: a game in Arcade. Game It was a boxing game

874
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:04,200
Speaker 1: where the controllers were like two big boxing gloves, and

875
00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:08,160
Speaker 1: it could detect when it had motion sensors cameras essentially

876
00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:10,480
Speaker 1: mounted on the top of a frame looking down, so

877
00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:12,560
Speaker 1: we could tell when you were ducking or moving left

878
00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:16,560
Speaker 1: or right. And then the controllers actually had most most

879
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:19,160
Speaker 1: accelerometers in them to tell when you were punching, but

880
00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:21,239
Speaker 1: turned out that if you just stood there and just

881
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:24,080
Speaker 1: bang the gloves together, it counted it as a punch,

882
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:26,960
Speaker 1: so you wouldn't get tired very quickly, and you could

883
00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:30,520
Speaker 1: just yeah, you could wipe out like the first five

884
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:33,960
Speaker 1: or six guys on that on that yeah, just doing that.

885
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:37,800
Speaker 1: I did not learn that until after I had actually

886
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:40,080
Speaker 1: hurt my back playing an arcade game, and that's the

887
00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:45,560
Speaker 1: first time I ever felt old. Um. Alright, so anecdote. Yeah,

888
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:49,880
Speaker 1: I mean, I've gotten to the point where I just

889
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:51,560
Speaker 1: have to I have to own it, right, I just

890
00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:55,719
Speaker 1: got to own it. So they thought the writers of

891
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:59,200
Speaker 1: this piece thought that those minimalistic kind of movements that

892
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:02,080
Speaker 1: you would see with a mouse should be the same

893
00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:03,880
Speaker 1: sort of things you would see with a body interface,

894
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:06,480
Speaker 1: so that you could do very subtle things to control

895
00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:09,080
Speaker 1: your devices, as opposed to doing things like swiping up

896
00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:12,160
Speaker 1: and down your forearm in order for you to just

897
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:14,960
Speaker 1: say the volume of music being played on your device,

898
00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:18,880
Speaker 1: or the lights in your home dimming or getting brighter.

899
00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:21,239
Speaker 1: I think God. One of the examples they did is

900
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:23,920
Speaker 1: about like putting your thumb on one of your your

901
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:26,720
Speaker 1: tongue on one of your teeth. I have a quote,

902
00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:32,279
Speaker 1: so don't jump ahead. Yes, I apologize so specifically in

903
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:34,760
Speaker 1: the section said the description can get a little creepy.

904
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:37,920
Speaker 1: So this is this is a paragraph that Joe was

905
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:40,920
Speaker 1: just referring to in this piece. It says, Uh, think

906
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:44,000
Speaker 1: about this scenario. You see someone at a party you like.

907
00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:48,680
Speaker 1: His social profile is immediately projected onto your retina. Great

908
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:53,040
Speaker 1: a match. By staring at him for two seconds, you

909
00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:57,040
Speaker 1: trigger a pairing protocol. He knows you want to pair

910
00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:01,400
Speaker 1: because you are now glowing slightly red in his retina screen.

911
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:05,680
Speaker 1: Then you slide your tongue over to your left incisor

912
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:10,400
Speaker 1: and press gently. This makes his left incisor tingle slightly.

913
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:14,839
Speaker 1: He responds by touching it. The pairing protocol is completed.

914
00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:19,799
Speaker 1: Is horrifying. Yeah, the next piece I wanted to talk

915
00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:23,439
Speaker 1: about this is describing a party hook up in terms

916
00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:25,880
Speaker 1: of like the stuff you would do too. I don't know,

917
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:29,960
Speaker 1: initiate trading in a massive I think what they were

918
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:33,080
Speaker 1: looking at was they were like, you know, Tinder is great,

919
00:52:33,239 --> 00:52:37,880
Speaker 1: but not nearly creepy enough in your body. Yeah, we

920
00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:41,480
Speaker 1: we don't touch our teeth at all during tinder, right,

921
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:43,880
Speaker 1: and we need to we need to we need to

922
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:49,000
Speaker 1: really get some tongue to tooth action. Yeah, because otherwise

923
00:52:49,080 --> 00:52:52,360
Speaker 1: how will he know that you're interested in him? So No,

924
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:54,600
Speaker 1: I'm confused about the part where it says his his

925
00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:57,480
Speaker 1: incisors starts to tingle. He responds by touching it. Does

926
00:52:57,520 --> 00:52:59,759
Speaker 1: that mean with his tongue or with another part of

927
00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:03,160
Speaker 1: his or with someone else's tongue? Who's to say? The

928
00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:06,480
Speaker 1: world is full of amazing possibilities. It's funny that you read.

929
00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:09,120
Speaker 1: I read this exact same piece and I did not

930
00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:11,560
Speaker 1: decide to include any of it because I found it

931
00:53:11,680 --> 00:53:14,920
Speaker 1: off putting. Well, the reason specifically I decided to keep

932
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:19,120
Speaker 1: to to include it was because to kind of conclude

933
00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:22,279
Speaker 1: this conversation, there are people who are saying, do we

934
00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:26,279
Speaker 1: even want our bodies to be a technological interface in

935
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:29,040
Speaker 1: the first place? Right? There was there's a really good

936
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:31,759
Speaker 1: piece written more or less to actually in response to

937
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:36,000
Speaker 1: to that piece, Yes, Technology Review, Right, that by John

938
00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:39,440
Speaker 1: Pavlis who wrote his piece was titled your body does

939
00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:42,760
Speaker 1: not want to be an interface, which pretty much tells

940
00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:44,239
Speaker 1: you what the argument is going to be. It's a

941
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:47,960
Speaker 1: very well written piece, and it's it's very interesting. Um.

942
00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:54,520
Speaker 1: And he first argues that turning bodily experiences or motions

943
00:53:54,560 --> 00:53:58,280
Speaker 1: into a command issued to technology would make it feel

944
00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:01,759
Speaker 1: unnatural and alien, which is the opposite of the intention. Right.

945
00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:05,080
Speaker 1: The intent is to remove that barrier between you and

946
00:54:05,239 --> 00:54:09,480
Speaker 1: technology so that a natural motion gets interpreted as a

947
00:54:09,640 --> 00:54:12,879
Speaker 1: command and the technology response. But he says, if you're

948
00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:15,479
Speaker 1: doing this quote unquote natural motion in order to issue

949
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:19,479
Speaker 1: a command, you're not really being natural by definition, because

950
00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:22,200
Speaker 1: you are you are issuing a command to technology, something

951
00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:25,279
Speaker 1: that is not a natural thing for us. It might

952
00:54:25,360 --> 00:54:28,759
Speaker 1: become something that ends up being second nature after doing

953
00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:33,120
Speaker 1: it enough times, but in itself it becomes this alien

954
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:36,480
Speaker 1: task because now you're you're trying to do something in

955
00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:39,000
Speaker 1: order to make a command. I can easily understand what

956
00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:43,040
Speaker 1: he's saying, because if you've ever worked with a voice

957
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:46,600
Speaker 1: command system and you have to issue commands in a

958
00:54:46,719 --> 00:54:50,680
Speaker 1: specific way in order to get results, it feels very

959
00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:54,279
Speaker 1: unnatural because you're having to preface what you say with

960
00:54:54,680 --> 00:54:56,759
Speaker 1: some sort of command, or you have to word it

961
00:54:57,120 --> 00:54:59,440
Speaker 1: in a specific way for it to understand what you're saying.

962
00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:03,040
Speaker 1: It is not a natural thing. Um. And so he

963
00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:05,160
Speaker 1: says that we would make ourselves kind of hyper aware

964
00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:07,200
Speaker 1: of how weird it is to like run our fingers

965
00:55:07,239 --> 00:55:09,560
Speaker 1: along the inside of our forearms to adjust the dimness

966
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:12,480
Speaker 1: of the lights in our house or whatever. And Pablos

967
00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:16,160
Speaker 1: refers to a computer scientist named Paul Dorish or Dowrish,

968
00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:20,320
Speaker 1: who in turn took inspiration from a philosopher Martin Hidegger.

969
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:24,600
Speaker 1: Hidegger Hidegger was a boozy beggar, according to Monty Python,

970
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:29,320
Speaker 1: and uh, it was all about differentiating two general types

971
00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:32,839
Speaker 1: of tools. The first type was is called the ready

972
00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:36,640
Speaker 1: to hand technologies. Those are things that feel like they're

973
00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:40,120
Speaker 1: an extension of our bodies. Uh. And so think of

974
00:55:40,160 --> 00:55:44,040
Speaker 1: a hammer when you're hammering a nail, he says, that

975
00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:47,759
Speaker 1: would be a very very brute version, or in my

976
00:55:47,880 --> 00:55:50,759
Speaker 1: case for this weekend, the rapier. I've been working with

977
00:55:50,880 --> 00:55:52,760
Speaker 1: one for a while, so it feels like an extension

978
00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:54,400
Speaker 1: of my arm when I first picked it up. That

979
00:55:54,560 --> 00:55:56,640
Speaker 1: was not the case. It would fall into the second

980
00:55:56,719 --> 00:56:00,480
Speaker 1: category of tools, which, uh, you know that and is

981
00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:04,200
Speaker 1: the present at hand type, So ready to hand type,

982
00:56:04,280 --> 00:56:06,520
Speaker 1: that's the kind where as you're using it, you're not

983
00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:09,520
Speaker 1: even really thinking of the tool as a separate thing

984
00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:13,320
Speaker 1: from you. It's an extension of you, right, but the

985
00:56:13,719 --> 00:56:16,600
Speaker 1: present at hand, you are aware of the presence of

986
00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:18,680
Speaker 1: that tool. So, for example, when I was learning to

987
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:21,720
Speaker 1: use a mouse, I was hyper aware of the mouse

988
00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:23,880
Speaker 1: because it was so hard for me to learn how

989
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:27,840
Speaker 1: to use. It was something that I was absolutely conscious of.

990
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:30,160
Speaker 1: It did not feel like an extension. These days, it

991
00:56:30,239 --> 00:56:32,760
Speaker 1: totally does because I've used it enough where I've reached

992
00:56:32,800 --> 00:56:36,040
Speaker 1: that level of familiarity, so things can change. Yeah. Yeah.

993
00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:38,720
Speaker 1: Anyone who's learned how to play a musical instrument, for example,

994
00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:41,200
Speaker 1: has probably gone through this. Yeah. That's a great, a

995
00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:43,359
Speaker 1: great way of putting it. So any of you out

996
00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:46,000
Speaker 1: there who think back to when you first started learning

997
00:56:46,040 --> 00:56:48,560
Speaker 1: how to play any kind of musical instrument, think about

998
00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:50,800
Speaker 1: your first day when someone first said, like, and this

999
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:54,520
Speaker 1: is a chord and you went little nope, yeah yeah.

1000
00:56:54,840 --> 00:56:57,359
Speaker 1: Or you're like, especially with stringed instruments, where like your

1001
00:56:57,400 --> 00:57:00,960
Speaker 1: fingers start to hit other strings so you're muffling some

1002
00:57:01,160 --> 00:57:02,920
Speaker 1: of the cored and you know that doesn't sound right

1003
00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:05,600
Speaker 1: what is going on here? And you feel in that

1004
00:57:05,840 --> 00:57:09,279
Speaker 1: first stage like you're never gonna get it right. It's

1005
00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:12,400
Speaker 1: never gonna happen like you have to concentrate so hard.

1006
00:57:13,239 --> 00:57:16,480
Speaker 1: But then eventually you start to develop a familiarity and

1007
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:19,360
Speaker 1: it becomes that first type of tool where it just

1008
00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:22,760
Speaker 1: feels like an extension of yourself. Um. He says. The

1009
00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:25,920
Speaker 1: problem is if we turned our bodies into interfaces, at

1010
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:28,400
Speaker 1: least for a while, they would turn into that second

1011
00:57:28,440 --> 00:57:31,560
Speaker 1: type of tool, that our bodies would feel weird and

1012
00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:36,640
Speaker 1: alien to us. He specifically took the the example of

1013
00:57:37,120 --> 00:57:40,880
Speaker 1: John cusas character and being John Malkovich trying to control

1014
00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:45,200
Speaker 1: John Malkovich. That's like a marionette dealing with a puppet,

1015
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:48,120
Speaker 1: and and it's not you're you're not skilled yet, you

1016
00:57:48,200 --> 00:57:51,040
Speaker 1: don't know how to manipulate it properly. But instead of

1017
00:57:51,120 --> 00:57:54,160
Speaker 1: it being another person's body, it's your own body. And

1018
00:57:54,240 --> 00:57:57,760
Speaker 1: he says, that sounds like an awful experience. I don't

1019
00:57:57,800 --> 00:58:01,360
Speaker 1: want that. Yeah. Yeah, it enters into this, and I

1020
00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:04,640
Speaker 1: guess I was sort of emotionally reacting in this way

1021
00:58:04,680 --> 00:58:07,440
Speaker 1: when I was thinking about some of those examples, the

1022
00:58:07,480 --> 00:58:10,760
Speaker 1: tooth touching and whatever. Uh. It enters into this kind

1023
00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:16,080
Speaker 1: of Cronenbergian sort of sort of body horror area where

1024
00:58:16,720 --> 00:58:20,400
Speaker 1: you yourself are a foreign object. Yeah, and how do

1025
00:58:20,560 --> 00:58:23,240
Speaker 1: how do you deal with that? Well, you reconcile that

1026
00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:26,720
Speaker 1: the two and you figure that that these these interfaces

1027
00:58:26,840 --> 00:58:30,160
Speaker 1: are ultimately going to be designed by somebody who thought

1028
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:31,920
Speaker 1: this has got to be the best way, this is

1029
00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:34,600
Speaker 1: the way it makes sense to do this thing right,

1030
00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:38,320
Speaker 1: But that's not you. So it may be that something

1031
00:58:38,360 --> 00:58:40,520
Speaker 1: that seems natural to the person who designed the system

1032
00:58:40,640 --> 00:58:43,680
Speaker 1: is completely unnatural to you. And then you have to

1033
00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:48,000
Speaker 1: commit this unnatural motion in order to do something you

1034
00:58:48,080 --> 00:58:52,160
Speaker 1: want to do. That's not a good experience. And yeah,

1035
00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:55,160
Speaker 1: I I think there could totally be a Cronenberg style

1036
00:58:55,240 --> 00:58:59,200
Speaker 1: body horror film based upon this premise. You know, even

1037
00:58:59,240 --> 00:59:02,240
Speaker 1: if you're even if are doing something that isn't on

1038
00:59:02,360 --> 00:59:06,720
Speaker 1: the surface horrifying, if you make it clear that it

1039
00:59:06,880 --> 00:59:10,320
Speaker 1: is something that doesn't feel right in order for you

1040
00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:12,240
Speaker 1: to get the response you want, that is a very

1041
00:59:12,320 --> 00:59:15,280
Speaker 1: disturbing idea. Yeah, I wonder if this is the kind

1042
00:59:15,320 --> 00:59:19,160
Speaker 1: of thing. There's been some research lately into common facial

1043
00:59:19,240 --> 00:59:22,680
Speaker 1: expressions that that people across the world all make that.

1044
00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:24,680
Speaker 1: There was one story that came out that I think

1045
00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:28,600
Speaker 1: the aforementioned how stuff works now uh covered about a

1046
00:59:28,720 --> 00:59:33,480
Speaker 1: nope face that apparently is just common to too many

1047
00:59:33,720 --> 00:59:37,520
Speaker 1: human populations. This this like I'm disinterested and I don't

1048
00:59:37,560 --> 00:59:40,200
Speaker 1: want to be interested kind of kind of facial expression.

1049
00:59:40,720 --> 00:59:43,720
Speaker 1: And so I wonder whether further research into that kind

1050
00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:48,720
Speaker 1: of thing could possibly identify common, common micro gestures that

1051
00:59:49,040 --> 00:59:53,000
Speaker 1: are just ubiquitous that would be natural for people to use,

1052
00:59:53,480 --> 00:59:56,400
Speaker 1: and that technology could pick up on without us even

1053
00:59:56,440 --> 00:59:58,720
Speaker 1: really being having to be aware that we're making this

1054
00:59:59,240 --> 01:00:01,880
Speaker 1: the and of course the challenge there also is that

1055
01:00:02,640 --> 01:00:05,480
Speaker 1: how do you how do you determine which ones need

1056
01:00:05,600 --> 01:00:08,200
Speaker 1: to be conscious decisions on the part of the person

1057
01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:12,080
Speaker 1: interacting with technology, Because if it's an active thing, you

1058
01:00:12,120 --> 01:00:15,600
Speaker 1: don't want to you don't want to accidentally activate your technology.

1059
01:00:15,840 --> 01:00:17,800
Speaker 1: If all you need to do is like scratch your

1060
01:00:17,840 --> 01:00:21,080
Speaker 1: nose or whatever, whatever tiny thing it might be, or

1061
01:00:21,240 --> 01:00:24,440
Speaker 1: or that you're blinking at a certain frequency, whatever it

1062
01:00:24,560 --> 01:00:27,880
Speaker 1: might be, you don't want to be activating your technology accidentally.

1063
01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:31,480
Speaker 1: Like like I ended up taking a whole bunch of

1064
01:00:31,560 --> 01:00:34,280
Speaker 1: pictures of myself when I was looking like a complete

1065
01:00:34,320 --> 01:00:36,680
Speaker 1: dou fist because it just so happened that the thing

1066
01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:38,400
Speaker 1: that I was going through at that time was the

1067
01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:41,360
Speaker 1: same as my command, Hey take a picture now, so

1068
01:00:42,040 --> 01:00:45,760
Speaker 1: there are some challenges. Yeah, I think I was thinking

1069
01:00:45,880 --> 01:00:48,280
Speaker 1: like so far ahead, like into the like her kind

1070
01:00:48,320 --> 01:00:50,720
Speaker 1: of university. I saw that film the idea where you

1071
01:00:50,840 --> 01:00:54,480
Speaker 1: actually have this world that can anticipate things like like

1072
01:00:54,760 --> 01:00:58,320
Speaker 1: the nest thermostatic model but on steroids. You know, this

1073
01:00:58,480 --> 01:01:00,760
Speaker 1: idea of we we talked about this in our our

1074
01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:02,960
Speaker 1: Internet of Things episode where he said, you know, you

1075
01:01:03,040 --> 01:01:07,720
Speaker 1: extend this idea outward far enough. It's a an environment

1076
01:01:07,840 --> 01:01:11,720
Speaker 1: that anticipates everything you need before you even are able

1077
01:01:11,840 --> 01:01:15,439
Speaker 1: to consciously think of what those needs might be. That's

1078
01:01:15,600 --> 01:01:21,200
Speaker 1: that's kind of the end destination that people really hope

1079
01:01:21,240 --> 01:01:24,960
Speaker 1: to get to. That was your body as a computer

1080
01:01:25,080 --> 01:01:28,880
Speaker 1: interface from the Forward Thinking podcast. You know, we don't

1081
01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:32,120
Speaker 1: do that one anymore. I really miss it because there

1082
01:01:32,400 --> 01:01:35,200
Speaker 1: is nothing like sitting down with some of the smartest

1083
01:01:35,240 --> 01:01:40,360
Speaker 1: people you know and just talking about cool potential stuff,

1084
01:01:40,640 --> 01:01:44,000
Speaker 1: like things that are on the cusp or just emerging

1085
01:01:44,720 --> 01:01:48,800
Speaker 1: uh or or perhaps are only hypotheticals, and kind of

1086
01:01:49,240 --> 01:01:54,280
Speaker 1: casting your mind forward and imagining what maybe obviously. Predicting

1087
01:01:54,280 --> 01:01:56,959
Speaker 1: the future is always a tricky thing. You never really

1088
01:01:57,040 --> 01:02:00,080
Speaker 1: want to double down on that because you could be

1089
01:02:00,480 --> 01:02:04,200
Speaker 1: wildly wrong. But it was fun to do. If you

1090
01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:07,360
Speaker 1: have never listened to the Forward Thinking podcast, I suggest

1091
01:02:07,360 --> 01:02:09,760
Speaker 1: to check it out. Just go through, look at the episodes,

1092
01:02:10,200 --> 01:02:13,600
Speaker 1: see if there are any that strike your your fancy. Um,

1093
01:02:14,080 --> 01:02:16,240
Speaker 1: because I feel like we did a lot of really

1094
01:02:16,320 --> 01:02:19,320
Speaker 1: good work now. Granted, also those episodes are several years

1095
01:02:19,360 --> 01:02:21,880
Speaker 1: old now. Some of those we were predicting things that

1096
01:02:22,040 --> 01:02:26,840
Speaker 1: either definitively came to pass or did not um and

1097
01:02:26,960 --> 01:02:28,840
Speaker 1: if they did come to pass, they probably looked very

1098
01:02:28,880 --> 01:02:32,080
Speaker 1: different from the way we imagine them. But yeah, I

1099
01:02:32,240 --> 01:02:34,720
Speaker 1: think it's a really good show that you know, you

1100
01:02:34,760 --> 01:02:37,280
Speaker 1: can check out. There's also a Forward Thinking video series

1101
01:02:37,760 --> 01:02:39,960
Speaker 1: that I did several years ago that's all up on

1102
01:02:40,080 --> 01:02:43,000
Speaker 1: YouTube if you want to check those out. Um. I

1103
01:02:43,040 --> 01:02:46,520
Speaker 1: occasionally get notifications about people still watching those episodes, and

1104
01:02:46,560 --> 01:02:50,160
Speaker 1: I haven't done one in years, but it's very gratifying

1105
01:02:50,240 --> 01:02:53,600
Speaker 1: to know that people still watch it occasionally. Anyway, if

1106
01:02:53,640 --> 01:02:56,440
Speaker 1: you have any suggestions for future episodes, or you just

1107
01:02:56,520 --> 01:02:58,920
Speaker 1: want to say hi, anything like that, a couple of

1108
01:02:58,920 --> 01:03:00,480
Speaker 1: different ways you can do that. You can go to

1109
01:03:00,560 --> 01:03:03,560
Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app and navigate to the text

1110
01:03:03,600 --> 01:03:06,400
Speaker 1: stuff page and there's a little microphone icon. You click

1111
01:03:06,440 --> 01:03:08,920
Speaker 1: on that and you can leave a voicemail message up

1112
01:03:08,920 --> 01:03:11,240
Speaker 1: to thirty seconds in length, or, of course, you can

1113
01:03:11,320 --> 01:03:13,760
Speaker 1: reach out via Twitter. The handle for the show is

1114
01:03:13,920 --> 01:03:17,480
Speaker 1: text Stuff H s W and I'll talk to you

1115
01:03:17,600 --> 01:03:23,680
Speaker 1: again and hopefully sound a billion times better really soon YEA.

1116
01:03:27,800 --> 01:03:30,800
Speaker 1: Text Stuff is an I Heart Radio production. For more

1117
01:03:30,920 --> 01:03:34,280
Speaker 1: podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the i Heart Radio app,

1118
01:03:34,440 --> 01:03:37,600
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows