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Speaker 1: Taking a walk.

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Speaker 2: Imagine the rhythm of your steps matching the heartbeat of

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Speaker 2: a city. I'm buzznight and today on the Taking a

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Speaker 2: Walk Podcast, I'm joined by a voice whose lyrics may

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Speaker 2: catch you by surprise and whose melodies make you want

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Speaker 2: to keep wandering.

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Speaker 3: His name is Jonah Kagan. And if you listen to this.

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Speaker 2: Podcast, you know I like turning you on and being

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Speaker 2: turned on to artists.

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Speaker 3: That I just think are really neat.

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Speaker 2: Jonah's songs feel like conversations that you want to keep having. Honest, unfiltered,

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Speaker 2: a little restless, but certainly honest. He's a storyteller who

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Speaker 2: is making things happen now all by simply staying true

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Speaker 2: to his own mission. So we're going to take a

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Speaker 2: word from our sponsors, and then we're going to talk

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Speaker 2: to Jonah next on taking a Walk. Taking a Walk,

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Speaker 2: We're with Jonah Kagan on the Taking a Walk Podcast. Hello, Jonah,

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Speaker 2: hey man, how you doing doing fantastic? I'm doing one

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Speaker 2: of my favorite things, which is talking to creative people

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Speaker 2: about their work.

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Speaker 3: We're going to talk about.

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Speaker 2: Sunflowers and leather, and we got a lot to unpack here.

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Speaker 2: But before I get to that, I like asking this

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Speaker 2: little opening question. You know, since we do call this

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Speaker 2: podcast taking a walk, I do like when possible to

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Speaker 2: be walking in person, but since we're not together either way,

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Speaker 2: I would ask the question, is there somebody that you wish,

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Speaker 2: living or dead, you could take a walk with? And

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Speaker 2: maybe where would you take that walk?

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Speaker 4: That's a great question. This is a peaceful podcast. I

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Speaker 4: can feel it already. This is like I feel like

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Speaker 4: I'm walking through clouds right now.

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Speaker 5: This is amazing.

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Speaker 4: I would say as of the last thirty seconds, I

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Speaker 4: would say you buzz. But before that I would have

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Speaker 4: said Matthew McConaughey.

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Speaker 3: Okay, and I'm not going to be able to beat

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Speaker 3: that one.

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Speaker 2: That's That's one that would be, no doubt, very interesting,

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Speaker 2: and I think it would be varied since he is

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Speaker 2: such a diverse character for sure, you know.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, he his book actually inspired a lot of this,

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Speaker 4: the journey that I took in making this album, and

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Speaker 4: I hope I get to meet him at some point.

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Speaker 3: Great. It's an incredible journey, it really is.

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Speaker 2: And I like talking about influences on the podcast, and

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Speaker 2: I do want to start with one that even before

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Speaker 2: I read up on you and I listened to your music.

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Speaker 2: I could alate a pretty hefty gamble that this particular

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Speaker 2: artist was an influence, and it's one that has come

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Speaker 2: up a couple of times with some other singer songwriters

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Speaker 2: that have been on the podcast. I'm teasing you, but

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Speaker 2: I know you know what you've got to be talking.

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Speaker 2: Oh you know who I'm gonna mention for sure. This

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Speaker 2: artist came up with the great Steve Earle as somebody

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Speaker 2: that he palaled around with in his career. It also

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Speaker 2: came up with Todd Snyder as well.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I know who you're gonna say.

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Speaker 3: And also a young man by the name of Will.

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Speaker 5: Pequin who is I know him? You know?

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Speaker 3: Will I do?

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Speaker 5: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Will?

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Speaker 5: Actually, that's wild. I Will. When I first put out my.

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Speaker 4: Very first song, I put it out through this third

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Speaker 4: party label who was basically just interested in.

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Speaker 5: Just helping new artists.

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Speaker 4: And I think he took like one percent of the

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Speaker 4: master or something, you know, tiny and was just helping

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Speaker 4: me put it out. And he was working with Will

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Speaker 4: as well. And Will it's just an awesome guitar player.

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Speaker 4: And I was a sweet kid and I got to

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Speaker 4: meet him for like a brief second.

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Speaker 5: So that's cool that you bring him up.

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Speaker 3: I've known Will since he was five years old. I'll

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Speaker 3: just leave with that right now. Yeah, because I'm a

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Speaker 3: family friend.

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Speaker 2: But anyway, okay, so who is the person that is

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Speaker 2: the influence?

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Speaker 5: See now I feel now I'm scared. I think I

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Speaker 5: want you to say it just in case I was wrong,

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Speaker 5: because I know I want to come out and say.

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Speaker 3: All right, well it's Towns van Zant.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there you go.

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Speaker 3: That's what I thought. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, which is so cool that it comes from so

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Speaker 2: many different places, all back to Towns.

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Speaker 3: How did you first discover Towns and what impact did

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Speaker 3: he make on you?

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Speaker 4: I was deep in the Alan Lomax sort of like discography,

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Speaker 4: and I kind of went on this sort of terror

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Speaker 4: before I was making this album, where I was really

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Speaker 4: interested in the cataloging of Americana music and folk music

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Speaker 4: and the origins.

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Speaker 5: And I really I said, I hadn't.

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Speaker 3: I wasn't.

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Speaker 4: I was kind of talking at my butt a little

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Speaker 4: bit about certain stuff, and I was like, I can't

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Speaker 4: sit here and call myself any semblance of a folk

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Speaker 4: artist if I.

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Speaker 5: Don't know you know, the history.

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Speaker 4: And I this is like a few years ago, and

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Speaker 4: I started kind of digging in and ended up in

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Speaker 4: the Laurel Canyon world, and I just fell so deep

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Speaker 4: into this rabbit hole. And then somebody told me about

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Speaker 4: Towns van Zand and around the same time, I was

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Speaker 4: discovering that he was an inspiration for a lot of

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Speaker 4: these guys that then defined Americana and defined folk music

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Speaker 4: in the United States. And I was like, how have

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Speaker 4: I not heard of this guy before? And he was

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Speaker 4: such like I found so much beauty and also pain

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Speaker 4: and just power and emotion in the fact that he

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Speaker 4: was so posthumously influential and that he lived just this

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Speaker 4: really troubled life and never got to see you know,

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Speaker 4: he had like a little moment with Poncho and Lefty

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Speaker 4: and a few other things, but he never got to

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Speaker 4: see the fruits of his labor in the sense that

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Speaker 4: like he really defined a genre and inspired you know,

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Speaker 4: like a Neil Young, or there would be no Neil

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Speaker 4: Young without Towns. There was always something that was really,

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Speaker 4: I don't know, quietly emotional about the fact that the

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Speaker 4: only reason why I am able to say anything is

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Speaker 4: technically because of Towns, And I just I feel like

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Speaker 4: this is like the first, you know, guy to get

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Speaker 4: up there and be a man and just air out

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Speaker 4: his pain in a way that like was like with

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Speaker 4: his words and with it, you know. And obviously there's

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Speaker 4: is blues that's part of that as well, But I

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Speaker 4: just I found so much inspiration in that in that

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Speaker 4: story alone, And that was before I even listened to

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Speaker 4: his music. And then I listened to his music, and

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Speaker 4: I was just like, I think one thing that I

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Speaker 4: really listened for now and I'm listening to music is like,

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Speaker 4: do I believe what somebody's saying? And which is not

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Speaker 4: easy for a lot of people, but I think that's

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Speaker 4: that's like what folk music, Americano music is is like

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Speaker 4: you have something to say in a voice and you're

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Speaker 4: really saying it, and Towns I was like, every word,

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Speaker 4: every word this guy says, is I believe what he's saying?

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Speaker 4: Felt like I was having a conversation with him. So

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Speaker 4: I think it was a combination of like the historical

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Speaker 4: context and the fact that he just had such a

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Speaker 4: voice and that I believed what he was saying.

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Speaker 5: I think that was where I just drew so much

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Speaker 5: inspiration from that.

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Speaker 2: I love and appreciate that you are, you know, steeped

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Speaker 2: in understanding the history, but all so obviously very much

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Speaker 2: in the present.

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Speaker 3: Talk about some of the other musicians that have really.

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Speaker 2: You know, at its core, at you know, a younger age,

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Speaker 2: that really impacted you and kind of cemented that you

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Speaker 2: would have a career in music.

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Speaker 4: Well, the other one that I thought you might say

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Speaker 4: was Jason isbel I thought you might mention Jason Isbell,

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Speaker 4: But he which is more more of a songwriting inspiration

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Speaker 4: than anything.

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Speaker 5: He He's just.

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Speaker 4: Another perfect example for me of somebody who has something

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Speaker 4: to say and and I believe him. His his words

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Speaker 4: are very inspiring to me. But beyond that, I probably

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Speaker 4: my most influential artist was this dude, Andy McKee, guitar

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Speaker 4: player Andy McKee, because I was a guitarist first, so

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Speaker 4: my played jazz and blues grown up, and then I

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Speaker 4: found Andy.

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Speaker 5: And Andy is.

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Speaker 4: A fingerstyle guitar, acoustic guitar player who plays in a

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Speaker 4: bunch of different tunings and he's got like bowed fred

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Speaker 4: forwards things like that, and he was just using the

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Speaker 4: guitar in a way that I had never seen before,

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Speaker 4: and it was so beautiful, and I was like, I

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Speaker 4: want to make my guitar sound like this. So this

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Speaker 4: is when I was little, maybe you know, I think

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Speaker 4: I found him when I was ten or eleven something

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Speaker 4: like that, nine or ten and I got rid of

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Speaker 4: all the electric guitars that I had, bought one acoustic

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Speaker 4: and started messing around with it. And you can still

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Speaker 4: hear for guitarists, especially like if you When I give

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Speaker 4: that reference, everybody's like, oh, yeah, of course, like of

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Speaker 4: course that's an influence for you because.

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Speaker 5: You can really hear him and how I play. But yeah,

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Speaker 5: that was that was He.

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Speaker 4: Was probably my most influential and then nowadays I have

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Speaker 4: a lot more songwriting influences, like the jasonisbell Is, Adrian

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Speaker 4: Lanker is a huge one. Yeah, people who have have

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Speaker 4: some have a voice something to say. Drew Holcomb is

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Speaker 4: a great one. That was the one that I listened

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Speaker 4: to and now a friend of mine and somebody I've

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Speaker 4: gotten to work with, and yeah, I think there's a

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Speaker 4: real community around that type of music, which is which

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Speaker 4: is just based around around your voice. And that was

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Speaker 4: also a through line in the Matthew McConaughey in Green Lights.

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Speaker 4: It was like this notion that you know, there are

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Speaker 4: all these stories, but this.

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Speaker 5: Isn't like a book. This is just I just got

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Speaker 5: something to say.

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Speaker 4: It's very simple, but I found so much like I'm

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Speaker 4: drawn to people who have something to say and who

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Speaker 4: really have something to say. So that's what's always been

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Speaker 4: and to me, Andy was that on the guitar I felt.

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Speaker 2: I always felt that, Well, you just laid out really

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Speaker 2: the core of what I'm doing with this podcast and

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Speaker 2: the others that I'm involved with that I produce. It's

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Speaker 2: that everybody has a story to be told. And I

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Speaker 2: echo with you also the fact that you know there

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Speaker 2: is this you know, rising star group of artists, uh

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Speaker 2: like yourself and Luke Tyler Shelton is another one who

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Speaker 2: are just have something to say and are you know,

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Speaker 2: finding a way to say it with this great historical

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Speaker 2: respect but also for you know, an understanding of where

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Speaker 2: things are today. So you're you're really speaking to why

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Speaker 2: this became a passion and a love for me, you know,

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Speaker 2: coming out of my.

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Speaker 3: My radio career.

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Speaker 2: I was in a radio management side and had on

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Speaker 2: air and all that stuff. But this is coming back,

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Speaker 2: you know, full circle to my to my roots. I

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Speaker 2: do want to ask you.

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Speaker 5: It's awesome.

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Speaker 2: What was it like when this massive moment in your

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Speaker 2: career called God Needs The Devil Happened, which you know,

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Speaker 2: just became number one alternative radio hit and big streams.

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Speaker 2: I mean, did it take you by surprise? First of all,

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Speaker 2: how big it became and how did you deal with that?

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Speaker 3: The wildest thing.

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Speaker 5: Is that it's still it's kind of actively happening.

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Speaker 4: Like it it went to number one on the radio,

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Speaker 4: which was nuts, but it was it was a slow

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Speaker 4: burn to get there.

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Speaker 5: And then it also.

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Speaker 4: Is just now having its peak days on streaming platforms

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Speaker 4: and things like that. And I'm just now starting to

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Speaker 4: play shows post that moment. And I say a moment

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Speaker 4: in this, you know, in the sense of a year

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Speaker 4: and a half type of moment, but and it's I'm

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Speaker 4: just witnessing like kind of right now the impact of

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Speaker 4: that and radio had had a huge part in that

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Speaker 4: because radio I started visiting stations where they were playing

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Speaker 4: the song and there were real people there who were

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Speaker 4: listening and showing up and being so kind. And I

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Speaker 4: got to listen to these people's stories and they would

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Speaker 4: all tell me about what the song meant to them,

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Speaker 4: and like there was a different there was a difference

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Speaker 4: in that community versus anything I had had before. It

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Speaker 4: just became a lot more real, and it is becoming

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Speaker 4: a lot more real. These are real people, not that

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Speaker 4: there weren't real people before there were, but it was,

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Speaker 4: you know, like you look at it's easy to look

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Speaker 4: at numbers on a on a streaming platform or on

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Speaker 4: a social media or whatever it is and not be

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Speaker 4: able to put it into context how many people that

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Speaker 4: actually is, because it's not It is people, but it's

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Speaker 4: not really people. Like if you get a million views

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Speaker 4: on a TikTok, like a million people is so many people,

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Speaker 4: but that's like a million. You might get a couple

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Speaker 4: thousand people who are like, wow, I am a real

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Speaker 4: person watching this.

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Speaker 5: The rest are like nice, and then they keep going.

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Speaker 5: And so I think the.

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Speaker 4: Thing with God Needs a Devil was that it was

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Speaker 4: there was like a real community, and it felt like

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Speaker 4: a very tangible thing that was happening. And I decided

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Speaker 4: kind of when that was happening.

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Speaker 5: The way that I coped with.

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Speaker 4: It, I guess, was like, oh my god, there are

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Speaker 4: real people here. This is like an opportunity. And I

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Speaker 4: think I've always said my passion is not in music,

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Speaker 4: it's in people, and music is the vehicle by which

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Speaker 4: I get to kind of fulfill that passion.

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Speaker 5: And that was what changed my life.

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Speaker 4: Was this like, now there are people, and I'm going

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Speaker 4: to dedicate my life to being in service of these people,

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Speaker 4: whoever they are, and I will be here as long

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Speaker 4: as they will have me. And I think that's what

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Speaker 4: you know, Americana is. Also Americana is like music and

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Speaker 4: service of people. It's somebody trying to find connection with

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Speaker 4: real people and going and meeting them, and you know,

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Speaker 4: and I haven't really even seen what that looks like

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Speaker 4: just yet. I've only seen it in limited capacities, in

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Speaker 4: like people showing up to tours that I'm supporting. And

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Speaker 4: I've done a couple of headline shows since the song

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Speaker 4: came out and those all sold out and we're these

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Speaker 4: really emotional things. But I think next year I'll really

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Speaker 4: get to see it. But I just want to be

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Speaker 4: out on the road all the time because I just

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Speaker 4: want to go see these people and I want to

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Speaker 4: go meet all these people who have been kind enough

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Speaker 4: to show up and share their stories with me. And yeah,

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Speaker 4: so I think it's just adds a whole new layer

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Speaker 4: of fulfillment for me.

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Speaker 1: We'll be right back more the Taking a Walk Podcast.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Taking a Walk podcast.

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Speaker 2: Let's talk about the origins of Sunflowers and the Leather.

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Speaker 2: It's pretty incredible. Before I get into asking you to

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Speaker 2: tell the story of your brand new truck and your

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Speaker 2: airstream and where.

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Speaker 3: It led you.

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Speaker 2: Have you ever seen the movie? And if you haven't,

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Speaker 2: I recommend it. Have you ever seen Lost in America?

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Speaker 1: No?

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Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, it's Albert Brooks, it's at his finest and

301
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Speaker 2: it's a different storyline than yours, but it does involve

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Speaker 2: him traveling across the country and some version of a

303
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Speaker 2: airstream or and it's it's brilliant. It's a brilliant, brilliant movie.

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Speaker 2: But so this was not a normal adventure that you took.

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Speaker 2: This kind of unfold. Can you tell the story that

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Speaker 2: led to Sunflowers and Leather?

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Speaker 3: I can?

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Speaker 5: Absolutely. I need to watch that movie also.

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Speaker 4: That sounds great, although it does feel it feels good

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Speaker 4: knowing that.

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Speaker 5: I have already completed that's my dog going crazy.

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Speaker 3: Dogs are welcome. Dogs are what's your dog's name?

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Speaker 5: This is Mars.

314
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Speaker 3: Mars.

315
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Speaker 5: Yep, she's very excited.

316
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Speaker 3: Oh hello Mars.

317
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Speaker 2: Though you never know at any moment, Elma and Sadie

318
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Speaker 2: might be barking in the background here because the delivery

319
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Speaker 2: just came from Amazon or something, so hello Mars.

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Speaker 5: Anyway, it's I always think this is funny.

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Speaker 1: There is.

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Speaker 5: I met this.

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Speaker 4: Girl when I was out on the road and she

324
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Speaker 4: was talking about how she was on her way to

325
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Speaker 4: Alaska and the reason why she was on her way

326
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Speaker 4: to Alaska was because she loved into the wild.

327
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Speaker 5: And I was like, did you finish and she is like,

328
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Speaker 5: I made it about halfway through.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you made it halfway through it the wild and

330
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Speaker 4: then and then.

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Speaker 5: Just jet it off for Alaska without getting it. I

332
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Speaker 5: was like, maybe you should, yeah, go to Alaska and

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Speaker 5: then come back and finish the movie.

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Speaker 4: So I'm hoping that whatever Lost in America ends up

335
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Speaker 4: being well, well, I've already done the trip, so now

336
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Speaker 4: I feel comfortable in watching any movie like that.

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Speaker 2: I just said, tell you one thing I lost in

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Speaker 2: America and then the lesson there, and you'll understand that

339
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Speaker 2: after you watch the movie, do not ever lose your

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Speaker 2: nest egg in Las Vegas.

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Speaker 3: That's all I'll say.

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Speaker 5: Okay, this is what I mean.

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Speaker 4: But this also I will tell you, like, there's always something.

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Speaker 5: And this was the impetus for my trip.

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Speaker 4: To answer that question is there's always something that goes

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Speaker 4: wrong or something happens and it's a story. And like

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Speaker 4: I didn't I had stories like.

348
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Speaker 5: That in a limited capacity. But I was like, what

349
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Speaker 5: would it be like to.

350
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Speaker 4: Just intentionally go do something knowing in my head like

351
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Speaker 4: I know something's gonna go wrong. I'm gonna get eaten

352
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Speaker 4: by a bear, or I'm gonna, you know, eat a

353
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Speaker 4: poisonous berry or.

354
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Speaker 5: Something like that.

355
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Speaker 4: I'm gonna lose my nest egg in Vegas. I just

356
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Speaker 4: I know something is going to happen. But what if

357
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Speaker 4: I just went out and lived that way knowing that

358
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Speaker 4: that's going to happen, and just see what happened, see

359
00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:23,600
Speaker 4: what comes out of it. I was like, man, what

360
00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:26,520
Speaker 4: a meaningful album that is, because that the album at

361
00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:30,440
Speaker 4: that point would just be a byproduct. And that's exactly

362
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Speaker 4: what it was. I went through a breakup. I had

363
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Speaker 4: been feeling cooped up for a while. I was like,

364
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Speaker 4: all right, it's time to do this, and almost immediately, Yeah,

365
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Speaker 4: I bought a new truck and a new airstream and

366
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Speaker 4: almost immediately, like I think it was like a couple

367
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Speaker 4: of weeks in, I was towing it and totaled it.

368
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Speaker 5: I totaled my truck.

369
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Speaker 4: I got an accident, total my truck, did major damage

370
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Speaker 4: to the airstream. And I'm sitting there, like you know,

371
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Speaker 4: on the highway and South Carolina and all these people

372
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Speaker 4: are driving by. My car's just like mangled, and all

373
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Speaker 4: these people are driving by. You can't park there, you know,

374
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Speaker 4: yelling stuff at me and all this stuff.

375
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Speaker 5: This is what I wanted, This is what I asked for.

376
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Speaker 3: I got my wish.

377
00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:20,399
Speaker 5: Yeah, I got my wish. And you know, I'm uncomfortable

378
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Speaker 5: while while I'm in it.

379
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Speaker 4: But I also there was a moment where I was

380
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Speaker 4: just sitting there just laughing, and I was like, well

381
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Speaker 4: here it is, you know. And I had so many

382
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Speaker 4: different moment long story short there. I got humbled by

383
00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:37,359
Speaker 4: the universe pretty hard there and bought a used truck

384
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Speaker 4: and used airstream and converted it myself. I was like,

385
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Speaker 4: let's do this the right way, and then went back

386
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Speaker 4: out on the road and it was good for the

387
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Speaker 4: next year.

388
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Speaker 5: Well not good, but you know what I mean. It

389
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Speaker 5: was I didn't total.

390
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Speaker 3: Anything, and you built a studio in it.

391
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Speaker 5: I did, yes, sir.

392
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Speaker 4: Yeah, So I forgot to elaborate on that I pulled

393
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Speaker 4: out kind of the back line lounge in the airstream

394
00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:05,679
Speaker 4: and just turned it into a little mobile rig and

395
00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:09,720
Speaker 4: decided that whatever was going to happen, I was going

396
00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:13,560
Speaker 4: to just write about it, and so that was my song.

397
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Speaker 4: The Reaper was like the first thing that I wrote

398
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Speaker 4: after I totaled my truck and you know, got humbled.

399
00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:22,520
Speaker 5: It was like it's time to whatever.

400
00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:25,680
Speaker 4: But that was the first first like thing, and then

401
00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:27,399
Speaker 4: I just decided I was going to do that for

402
00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:29,480
Speaker 4: as long as it took to get the album out,

403
00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:32,120
Speaker 4: and I went out and lived that way for about

404
00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:37,880
Speaker 4: a year, met some incredible people and had some insane experiences,

405
00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:39,200
Speaker 4: and then the album, Yeah, it.

406
00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:40,959
Speaker 5: Was just really just a byproduct of that.

407
00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:44,520
Speaker 4: I had so many more stories where I was sitting

408
00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:48,119
Speaker 4: there just like, well I wanted this, and you know,

409
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:55,320
Speaker 4: some insane inconvenience or whatever. But then eventually an album

410
00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:59,440
Speaker 4: was born and we went back. After the album was done,

411
00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:02,200
Speaker 4: I took a film crew out on the same route

412
00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:06,040
Speaker 4: that I took and showed them all the spots where

413
00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:10,320
Speaker 4: I wrote and recorded the music and did little acoustic

414
00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:13,640
Speaker 4: performances in those spots and.

415
00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:16,360
Speaker 5: Did like interviews in different places.

416
00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:19,880
Speaker 4: So you can actually see where everything happened, and that comes.

417
00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:22,359
Speaker 5: Out with the album as well. It's like a half hour.

418
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:25,760
Speaker 3: That's awesome. Now were you were? You were all alone

419
00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:26,399
Speaker 3: on this trip.

420
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Speaker 5: I had, I had my dog, I had Mars, who's.

421
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:35,160
Speaker 4: Over there and after she's sleeping, but after causing a ruckus.

422
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:35,840
Speaker 5: But yeah, I had mar.

423
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Speaker 4: I got Mars about halfway through, so it was just

424
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Speaker 4: me for a bit and then and then Marsh joined

425
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Speaker 4: the party.

426
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Speaker 2: That speaks to the introspective tone, the you know, the

427
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:52,920
Speaker 2: you know, there's a weariness for sure that comes through.

428
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:55,680
Speaker 3: I want to ask you about a couple of songs.

429
00:22:56,520 --> 00:23:02,800
Speaker 2: First of all, my ashes turning white speak about that's

430
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:04,040
Speaker 2: that's quite a song.

431
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:07,520
Speaker 5: Thank you. That was the last song that I wrote.

432
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:10,280
Speaker 4: Actually, funny enough, it's the first song on the album,

433
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:13,159
Speaker 4: but the last song that I wrote and possibly my

434
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:17,040
Speaker 4: favorite song on the album. I wanted to intro the

435
00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:21,600
Speaker 4: album with just like this kind of it was almost

436
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:23,719
Speaker 4: like a prologue and then it turned into like a

437
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:29,560
Speaker 4: real proper song. Yeah, there is absolutely a weariness. It's

438
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:32,800
Speaker 4: I spent a lot of time in my head on

439
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:36,560
Speaker 4: this trip, and that song. I was looking at the

440
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,439
Speaker 4: full album minus that one. Of course, Like before I

441
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:41,399
Speaker 4: wrote it, I was looking at the full album and

442
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:46,280
Speaker 4: just seeing I could see the year and like the

443
00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:50,000
Speaker 4: emotional kind of trip that I took along with the

444
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:53,680
Speaker 4: actual trip, and I was just realizing that there's so

445
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:58,239
Speaker 4: much I wanted to kind of concisely explain why I

446
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:01,919
Speaker 4: did this, And basically the message in that song was

447
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 4: just like, I'm not.

448
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:04,720
Speaker 5: Afraid of dying.

449
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 4: This thing is as much as it is driven by

450
00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:09,080
Speaker 4: a love for life and my love for being here,

451
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:12,160
Speaker 4: it's also deeply driven by a fear of not doing

452
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:15,480
Speaker 4: enough while I am on the earth, I'm terrified of

453
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:20,399
Speaker 4: that and that when I do die, I won't last

454
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:23,160
Speaker 4: for a while. I think everything just kind of gets

455
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:27,600
Speaker 4: forgotten naturally, and there's just a lot of sadness in that.

456
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:29,800
Speaker 4: And again you can see why I connect so much

457
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:33,959
Speaker 4: with Towns. Van Zant's is this sort of like weariness

458
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 4: in his music as well. So that song was really

459
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:44,640
Speaker 4: just like of me opening up the last bit of

460
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:48,240
Speaker 4: this album and my experienced people, which was just like, listen,

461
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 4: this might look really cool, and it was really cool,

462
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 4: and there's a lot of it that's really special, but like,

463
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:57,800
Speaker 4: I'm terrified of not doing enough while I'm here. So

464
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:01,960
Speaker 4: this is me giving you everything. And it kind of

465
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:05,439
Speaker 4: ends on this, like me just begging what I'm like,

466
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:08,640
Speaker 4: You'll be all that's left of me. I'm talking about

467
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 4: the songs. I'm talking about the people that are listening.

468
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:12,920
Speaker 4: I'm talking about my family, I'm talking about whatever. And

469
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:16,760
Speaker 4: so when I died, just don't let me die, please,

470
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,439
Speaker 4: And I think as much as there is fear in

471
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:21,320
Speaker 4: like I don't want to be.

472
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:23,960
Speaker 5: Forgotten, that's the selfish part of it.

473
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:27,160
Speaker 4: But the non selfish part is like, don't stop listening,

474
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 4: don't stop feeling, don't stop just please, you know, surrender

475
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:35,240
Speaker 4: to the music and to the experience, because that was

476
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:36,359
Speaker 4: what I did with this album.

477
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:41,880
Speaker 2: And since you mentioned The Reaper, which I love as well,

478
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,879
Speaker 2: I mean I listened to The Reaper, and I imagine

479
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 2: you at a stark place somewhere in the middle of nowhere,

480
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:56,199
Speaker 2: probably just contemplating struggles and challenges and where life is heading.

481
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:58,959
Speaker 3: But talk a little bit more about the Reaper.

482
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:02,199
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's one of those that's like very when my

483
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:04,680
Speaker 4: ashes turned whit. It's a little more vague and kind

484
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,639
Speaker 4: of like introspective, and you can you can take it

485
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:10,040
Speaker 4: different ways. The Reaper is just exactly what happened. It

486
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:13,679
Speaker 4: was like I woke up, decided I was cooped up,

487
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 4: I'm going to Montana. I'm buying all this new stuff.

488
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 4: I'm gonna go like, hell yeah, I'm gonna go do

489
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 4: all these things. Bang totaled my car and I'm like

490
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 4: and once that happened, I'm sitting there, I'm like, what

491
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 4: am I doing? This is the universe saying is slow up, child,

492
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 4: You're gonna get burned. You know, like you're gonna live

493
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 4: a long, long life. You don't have to do everything

494
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:37,679
Speaker 4: right now. And then I was just kind of recounting

495
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 4: everything else. It was like, I so I just talked

496
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 4: about a couple of every All the verses in there

497
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 4: are real stories and things that happened and moments that

498
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,640
Speaker 4: I got ahead of myself. And then life was kind

499
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,880
Speaker 4: of like, slow down, what are you doing?

500
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:56,359
Speaker 2: Pick one of the other songs and kind of walk

501
00:26:56,480 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 2: us through how your songwriting process work. You know, pick

502
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 2: one of your other eight favorites off of it, but

503
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,879
Speaker 2: pick one or two and take us inside the songwriting

504
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 2: process for you as an artist.

505
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:16,120
Speaker 4: See find one. I want to find one that's kind

506
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 4: of deeper. They all, they all have something a little

507
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 4: bit different. One of my favorites is Anvil. There's a

508
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 4: song called Anvil on there and Anvil was it really depends.

509
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 4: I don't I don't really work with anyone because I

510
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 4: can't get all the way there for my project. I

511
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 4: love working with people for their project, but I can't.

512
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,920
Speaker 4: I can't quite say exactly what I want to say

513
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 4: with other people. So my process is usually it almost

514
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 4: always just starts with me and a guitar and I'm

515
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,359
Speaker 4: just noodling some stuff. Sometimes it might start with like

516
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:59,479
Speaker 4: just a word or words or something, but I am

517
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 4: my one thing is I cannot be in the emotion

518
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:04,199
Speaker 4: that I'm writing about when I write it.

519
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:07,159
Speaker 5: I don't know how people do that.

520
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:10,880
Speaker 4: Like when people are like sad and then they write

521
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:12,640
Speaker 4: a song, it blows my mind.

522
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:14,439
Speaker 5: I have no idea how people are able to do that.

523
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:18,199
Speaker 4: If I'm sad, I'm sitting there just like staring at

524
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 4: the wall, Like the last thing I want to do

525
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:24,119
Speaker 4: is talk about it. And so I once it's aged

526
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 4: a little bit, I'll be thinking about a certain thing.

527
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 4: And in that song particular, I was thinking about, like, man,

528
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 4: what a may after my breakup?

529
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 5: That i'd gone through. I was like, man, what a

530
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 5: what a mess? What a mess this all is?

531
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 4: And this is just for another lesson, you know, I'm like,

532
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 4: not every lesson can be worth all this mess, right,

533
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 4: And that was that was like the thought. And once

534
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 4: I had that, I was just kind of like I

535
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 4: knew that I was going to be talking about something

536
00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 4: kind of sarcastically that I was really true, And.

537
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 5: So that was the lie.

538
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 4: It was the this lesson can't be worth all of

539
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 4: this goddamn miss that the song just kind of built

540
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:11,479
Speaker 4: itself around all of that.

541
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 5: From there, I usually just play and talk like I'll

542
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 5: just be playing and.

543
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:22,560
Speaker 4: It kind of word vomit and I've I've found that

544
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:24,719
Speaker 4: that's the best way to write when you're trying to

545
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 4: actually say something, because.

546
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 5: It's just talking.

547
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:30,960
Speaker 4: It's just I want you, I want whoever's listening to

548
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 4: just feel like I'm they're sitting there talking to me,

549
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 4: and eventually it takes shape and you know, if something

550
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 4: doesn't make sense, then I'll change the word.

551
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 5: But it really is just me just doing.

552
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 4: Random stuff and talking with like one sort of theme

553
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 4: in the middle.

554
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 3: So you'll be taking it out on the road soon.

555
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, Oh yeah, I'm very excited for this album

556
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:54,800
Speaker 4: to come out so that I can.

557
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:58,000
Speaker 5: Play these songs in context.

558
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 4: I've been playing like a lot the new stuff for

559
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 4: the last year or two that is on the album,

560
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 4: but I'm excited for people.

561
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 5: To hear the actual recorded versions.

562
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 4: And yeah, I'll be on the road for pretty much

563
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 4: the rest of this year and then hopefully all of

564
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 4: next year I'll be doing it. I'll be out as

565
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 4: long as as long as they'll have me.

566
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 3: Oh, that's great.

567
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 2: The work is masterful, Sunflowers and Leather. It's brilliant. I

568
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 2: can't wait for people to check it out in person

569
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 2: or thank you through every platform.

570
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 3: And it's an honor to talk to you.

571
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 2: Jonah, congratulations on everything. And it's only the beginning.

572
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 5: Baby, thank you so much. Buzz, this is great. I

573
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 5: appreciate you.

574
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 3: Thank you, and thank you. Mars.

575
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 4: She's way too asleep now, she's over there one you see.

576
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 3: I love it.

577
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 5: I'm sure she would say thank you.

578
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 1: Also. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking

579
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 1: a Walk podcast. Share this and other episodes with your

580
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 1: friends and follow us so you never miss an episode.

581
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:10,400
Speaker 1: Taking a Walk is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple

582
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 1: podcasts and wherever you get your podcasts