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Speaker 1: Mother Knows Death presents External Exams with Nicole and Jimmy.

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Speaker 1: Hi everyone, Welcome The Mother Knows Death. On this week's

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Speaker 1: External Exam, we will be speaking with Paul Kudnaris, who

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Speaker 1: has a PhD in art history from the University of

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Speaker 1: California and has written widely on European astuaries and Charnel

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Speaker 1: houses for both academic and popular journals. He is the

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Speaker 1: author of the Empire of Death, a cultural history of

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Speaker 1: ostuaries and charnel Houses, Memento Mori the Dead among Us,

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Speaker 1: Heavenly Bodies, Cult Treasures and Spectacular Stance from the Catacombs,

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Speaker 1: and a book about domestic felines called a Cat's Tail

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Speaker 1: that was also a Barnes and Nobles Book of the Year.

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Speaker 1: Paul is one of my great friends, and today I

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Speaker 1: will be talking to him about his new book called

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Speaker 1: Faithful unto Death, Pets, Cemeteries, Animal Graves and Eternal Devotion.

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Speaker 1: This book is available in the UK on September sixteenth

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Speaker 1: and in the USA on October first. Hi, Paul, Welcome

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Speaker 1: The Mother Knows Death.

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Speaker 2: Hi, Mom, how are you in to call?

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Speaker 1: How are you? I haven't seen you in a couple

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Speaker 1: months in person, but we do talk on the phone

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Speaker 1: almost every single day, which is interesting. But let's get

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Speaker 1: started talking about your new book. I'm so excited for this.

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Speaker 1: I have my own copy right behind me. It's called

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Speaker 1: Faithful unto Death. Can you tell us a little bit

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Speaker 1: about what the book's about.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's about the history of pet cemeteries and animal burials,

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Speaker 2: and it focuses on you know, everyone's got this kind

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Speaker 2: of idea that we've had this relationship with animals, you know,

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Speaker 2: keeping them as pets since the ancient world, and it's

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Speaker 2: really not true. I mean, humans have always lived with animals,

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Speaker 2: but pets as we know them are really invented in

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Speaker 2: the nineteenth century. The way we live with them and

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Speaker 2: treat them as family, the way we but the way

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Speaker 2: we feed them, everything about the way we act we

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Speaker 2: react with them comes from the nineteenth century, from the

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Speaker 2: Industrial Revolution, when people were moving into the big cities

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Speaker 2: and taking these animals into their homes and in you know,

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Speaker 2: small domestic environments and bonding with them emotionally. Yet they

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Speaker 2: were not allowed to have a dignified death, even though

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Speaker 2: they had become members of the family. You know. It's

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Speaker 2: like normally, when you got rid of an animal in

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Speaker 2: the nineteenth century, you take it to a rending plant

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Speaker 2: and they would just kind of, you know, chop it

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Speaker 2: up and burn it down into fertilizer or for industrial

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Speaker 2: purposes like glue, or you know, you'd toss it in

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Speaker 2: the river. And it was emotionally, obviously very taxing for

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Speaker 2: anyone who cares about their animals. And so this book

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Speaker 2: is kind of the story about how some very rebellious

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Speaker 2: people in the nineteenth century decided to put their foot

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Speaker 2: down and say, no, we love these animals, they are

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Speaker 2: family members. Were not going to mistreat them at their death.

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Speaker 2: We're going to give them a death with dignity that

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Speaker 2: they deserved, just like any human family member.

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Speaker 1: This book is is kind of different. I don't think

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Speaker 1: that there's really anything like it out there.

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Speaker 2: Right, No, there isn't. And that's part of it. I mean,

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Speaker 2: part of the masochistic nature of my personality is that

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Speaker 2: I like to do projects that no one has done before.

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Speaker 2: And when I first started looking into this, you know,

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Speaker 2: I was like, what about pet cemeteries? And I started

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Speaker 2: taking pictures in them and they were really touching and

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Speaker 2: really beautiful, and it's like, has anyone ever done a

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Speaker 2: book about this, and it was like, actually, no, I

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Speaker 2: guess it falls on me.

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Speaker 1: The cool thing about this book is you wrote it,

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Speaker 1: but also you took all the photos in it. Where

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Speaker 1: how do you come across all of these pet cemeteries?

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Speaker 2: Well, because this took me eleven years. That's why, in

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Speaker 2: the process of doing this book, I had an entire

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Speaker 2: another book in the middle of it that I researched, wrote, photographed,

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Speaker 2: and even that book is now four years old. I've

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Speaker 2: been working a really long time. I've traveled across the world.

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Speaker 2: You know, I've gone and taken photographs of pet cemeteries

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Speaker 2: in Indonesia, in Bolivia. You know, I've gone all the

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Speaker 2: way down to New Zealand in order to photograph animals, graves,

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Speaker 2: and so it's just a matter of time.

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Speaker 1: Do people like contact you and say, hey, like how

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Speaker 1: I'm just curious of the process, like how you find them,

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Speaker 1: because I don't think with the exception of just like

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Speaker 1: seeing one in a friend's backyard once in a while,

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Speaker 1: I've never come across one that was dedicated to a pet.

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Speaker 1: But it's really interesting.

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Speaker 2: Well, they're around and it's just a matter of research. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I do have people contact me maybe I have too

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Speaker 2: many people contact me because it's like the book is

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Speaker 2: already done, and I'll get messages from people it's like, hey,

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Speaker 2: just so you knew, there's a little pet cemetery right

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Speaker 2: off the road in Pensacola, Florida. It's like on the way.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, they're around. It's just a matter of research

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Speaker 2: and looking them up. They really are everywhere, and especially

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Speaker 2: in the United States. This is a really American story.

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Speaker 2: There are more pet cemeteries in the United States than

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Speaker 2: the rest of the world combined, and there's a staggering

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Speaker 2: a of them. You know, in Alabama there's a pet

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Speaker 2: cemetery just for coon dogs. And you can't just claim

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Speaker 2: your dog as a raccoon hunting hound. You have to

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Speaker 2: you have to get like notarized documents from people who

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Speaker 2: have hunted with your dog to show that it's a

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Speaker 2: first coon dog. We have an amazing array of pet

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Speaker 2: cemeteries in the United States.

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Speaker 1: When you came to Philly, did you go to the

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Speaker 1: University of Penn Museum, the Archaeology Museum.

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Speaker 2: I did. I've been there with at ams.

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Speaker 1: So one cool thing that I always thought, even since

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Speaker 1: I was a little kid, is that they have mummified

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Speaker 1: cats or like their pets, and I thought that that

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Speaker 1: was really interesting.

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Speaker 2: Uh yeah, I mean, well there were so there's also though,

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Speaker 2: there's a little bit of a misconception about the mommified

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Speaker 2: cats in Egypt. I mean, because people will say to

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Speaker 2: me about Bubastis, which is the city of cats, and

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Speaker 2: I've been toasts that. It's like, well, isn't that like

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Speaker 2: a pet cemetery, because they'd momify the cats and it's fascinating.

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Speaker 2: But the answer is no, because a lot of those cats,

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Speaker 2: most of those cats, you know, if you X ray them,

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Speaker 2: you can see that first of all, they were very young.

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Speaker 2: Most of them were not of a mature age, meaning

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Speaker 2: that they were sacrificed, and you can see you know,

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Speaker 2: cut marks or you know, on the body or or

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Speaker 2: places where they broken their neck. Because back in Egypt, yes,

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Speaker 2: they did love their cats, they did love their animals.

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Speaker 2: People would be mummified with favorite animals and have those

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Speaker 2: animals placed in the tomb, which is really touching. But

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Speaker 2: the vast majority of those mummified animals were actually raised

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Speaker 2: by temples to be sacrificed to gods.

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Speaker 1: That's really interesting. I never knew that there's So you know,

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Speaker 1: I have this website, The Grocerroom, and oftentimes I'll write

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Speaker 1: stories because animals do have such a close connection with people,

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Speaker 1: and sometimes it has to do with horrible accidents involving

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Speaker 1: animals where an animal gets killed or I even showed

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Speaker 1: one example of a forensic case where they used a

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Speaker 1: dog that was killed to help do ballistics for the

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Speaker 1: human that was killed at the scene as well. And

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Speaker 1: some of the feedback that I get from grocery members

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Speaker 1: is like, please, do not ever talk about dead animals.

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Speaker 1: I could look at dead animals and dead humans all

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Speaker 1: day long, but my heart breaks too much for any

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Speaker 1: dead animals. So do you think that this book is

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Speaker 1: still good for people that get really upset when you're

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Speaker 1: talking about animals dying.

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Speaker 2: Well, well, first of all, let me say that I

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Speaker 2: understand that because I get similar feedback because for years

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Speaker 2: now I've been picking up roadkill animals and making roadside

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Speaker 2: funerals for them, and I have. Probably it's ironic because

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Speaker 2: when I put those online, they're first of all, the

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Speaker 2: most popular category of posts that I do, and they've

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Speaker 2: also lost me more followers online than any of their

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Speaker 2: kind of posts that because some people just can't take

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Speaker 2: it the idea that this animal has died and it's

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Speaker 2: sitting there on the road dead, even though you're trying

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Speaker 2: to do something beautiful and pay tribute to it. It

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Speaker 2: is painful. You know, the death of an animal is

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Speaker 2: a different kind of pain than the death of a

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Speaker 2: human because we have a different relationship to them. You know,

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Speaker 2: it's an intimate, nonverbal relationship to them, and when they die,

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Speaker 2: it just feels like the death of something very innocent,

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Speaker 2: and it can be very hard to take. Regarding this book,

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Speaker 2: there's look, there's no gore in it. This this book

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Speaker 2: is all pictures of graves, and it's all stories of

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Speaker 2: how people who love their animals have looked for ways

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Speaker 2: to pay tribute for them. So I think it's actually

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Speaker 2: a perfect book for these people. Of course, it talks

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Speaker 2: about dead animals, but there's nothing glory about it, and

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Speaker 2: the whole book is really it's a tribute to love.

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Speaker 1: Speaking of Instagram, do you ever do you ever get

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Speaker 1: like shit or get censored if you post these photos

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Speaker 1: of dead animals? Because I know for sure I do

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Speaker 1: with the humans, so are they as sensitive with the

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Speaker 1: rules of that, Because I'm sure people report it because

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Speaker 1: it upsets them.

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Speaker 2: No what I get and this is the strangest thing

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Speaker 2: that Meta as a platform has has ever started doing.

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Speaker 2: I get passive aggressive miss messages from the platform. And

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Speaker 2: what I'll get is I'll put up something because they

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Speaker 2: have I guess they have these bots, and I've probably

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Speaker 2: had enough people complain. It's like, oh my god, you

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Speaker 2: know there's a there's a dead cat by the side

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Speaker 2: of the road, even though it is wrapped in a

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Speaker 2: funeral shroud, and you know, it's like covered in flowers,

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Speaker 2: and it's this it's this loving tribute. I've got enough

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Speaker 2: complaints about it. And I guess they're there. Their bots

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Speaker 2: are analyzing me and like watching me for this stuff.

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Speaker 2: And what I'll get is whenever they put up this photos,

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Speaker 2: I get an instant pop up that says, we're not

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Speaker 2: going to remove your photo because it does not violate

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Speaker 2: our rules, but we strongly recommend that you remove it

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Speaker 2: on your own or we're not going to let any

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Speaker 2: non followers see your posts. And you know, click click

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Speaker 2: accept or reject, and I'll just reject it. And this

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Speaker 2: is these are the messages that I get. I don't

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Speaker 2: know anyone else who gets these passive aggressive messages. It's weird.

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Speaker 2: They're asking me to censor myself, and I'll always just say,

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Speaker 2: you know, go to hell. I mean, this isn't this

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Speaker 2: isn't about meta, and it's not about my followers, and

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Speaker 2: it's not about me. It's about paying tribute to this

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Speaker 2: this fallen animal who is you know, who deserves some

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Speaker 2: one last memorial in this world. And the funny thing

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Speaker 2: about that is I had one of them recently. It

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Speaker 2: was these two dead dogs that had been dumped out

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Speaker 2: in the desert and left for dead, and I put

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Speaker 2: made this roadside tribute to them, you know, wrap them

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Speaker 2: up at funeral shrouds. And I got that message from

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Speaker 2: from Instagram saying and like, you know, please self censor

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Speaker 2: yourself and remove this. I said no. And then a

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Speaker 2: week later I got a message from Meda about that post,

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Speaker 2: another pop up message and say, hey, that post of

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Speaker 2: yours reached one hundred percent more one hundred percent more

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Speaker 2: accounts than any other posts that you've posted in the

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Speaker 2: last year. Good going do it again, something like that.

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Speaker 2: So they're telling yeah, so they were telling me to

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Speaker 2: censor myself or I could be in trouble. And then

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Speaker 2: they're telling me it's like, yeah, dead dogs, good, some more.

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Speaker 1: I I can't even get started on all the I do.

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Speaker 1: I get that message too. So I know you said

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Speaker 1: that you that you don't know anyone that gets it,

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Speaker 1: but like I get the same one too. It's a

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Speaker 1: oh you you get the yeah on every single one.

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Speaker 1: I have a whole entire section of the Instagram to

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Speaker 1: go into, and it's basically like, we're not showing your

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Speaker 1: account to non followers until you delete these posts, but

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Speaker 1: we're not going to make you delete them because you're

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Speaker 1: not violating any terms. It's so it's so insane. It's

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Speaker 1: like this weird bullying tactic or something.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it's a passive aggressive yeah.

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Speaker 1: I can't stand it. So all right, So, speaking of this,

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Speaker 1: so you're saying that this book is good for people

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Speaker 1: that that might get upset about it because it's telling

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Speaker 1: these these stories of how animal owners we were attributing

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Speaker 1: to these animals and their death. Were there any that

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Speaker 1: that you had a connection with that either upset you

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Speaker 1: or made you feel happy? While because you've been writing

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Speaker 1: this for so long and came across so many different cases.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean, honestly, the hardest thing about this book.

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Speaker 2: One of the reasons it took so long was because

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Speaker 2: imagine waking up every day and going to work and

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Speaker 2: reliving the grief of someone losing their animal, because that's

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Speaker 2: what I had to do. You know, I had to

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Speaker 2: go through all these stories about, you know, the death

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Speaker 2: of people's pets, and it was psychologically very debilitating. One

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Speaker 2: of my I don't know, maybe it's my favorite stories.

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Speaker 2: The one I think that touched me the most was

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Speaker 2: about a dog in Montana by the name of Shep,

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Speaker 2: and Shep's story is special. You know, there's this trope

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Speaker 2: about dogs more in their owners after their owners die,

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Speaker 2: and it's not just a trope because it's also a

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Speaker 2: real thing. It kind of started as a literary trope,

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Speaker 2: but then when people started looking, the dogs are doing it.

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Speaker 2: The most famous one is that dog in Japan, Hachi

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Speaker 2: or Chico, you know, the one who waited at the

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Speaker 2: train station for his owner who never came back for

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Speaker 2: many years. This is a similar story. It's about a

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Speaker 2: dog waiting at a train station for an owner who

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Speaker 2: will never come back. But it has this has a

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Speaker 2: couple twists to it that made it I think, really

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Speaker 2: emotionally powerful. First of all. It was set against the

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Speaker 2: American Depression, and it was set in the West because

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Speaker 2: it was in Montana, so it's kind of got this

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Speaker 2: wild West background, like the Wild West railroads, and it's

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Speaker 2: then the Depression. So you know, like this idea of

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Speaker 2: these humans who are really suffering too. And at the

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Speaker 2: same time, no one ever knew who his owner was.

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Speaker 2: And so that's something I found really touching. A dog

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Speaker 2: who refuses to forget a person that the rest of

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Speaker 2: humanity has forgotten because they never knew the owner's name.

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Speaker 2: They found him dead, they sent him on a train

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Speaker 2: headed east. They didn't know who he was. The dog

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Speaker 2: tried to get on the train and they blocked the

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Speaker 2: dog and he said, no way, you can't come on

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Speaker 2: this train. Get out of here, dog, And the dog

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Speaker 2: never left the station. The dog, for the rest of

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Speaker 2: his life stayed at that state and examined every passenger

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Speaker 2: whoever came off that train to see if his owner

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Speaker 2: was coming back. He was going to spend the rest

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Speaker 2: of his life mourning that owner and waiting for him

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Speaker 2: to return. But nobody knew who he was. And I

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Speaker 2: found that so touching. You know, it's like that with

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Speaker 2: the rest that you know, it's the depression and people

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Speaker 2: are suffering, and it's the wild West, and all of

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Speaker 2: humanity has forgotten the identity of this man. But this

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Speaker 2: dog remembers. This dog is the last witness and the

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Speaker 2: last testimony to this man. And I just found that.

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Speaker 2: I found that really touching also because you know, this

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Speaker 2: dog had become very famous for waiting at the train station,

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Speaker 2: and there were all these you know, like Ripley's Believe

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Speaker 2: It or Not wrote him up. He was in all

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Speaker 2: these newspapers like, you know, this emotionally touching story of

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Speaker 2: this dog who refuses to forget this guy. And so

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Speaker 2: people started to donate money for him, and you know,

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Speaker 2: it's like, hey, here's some money for that dog. We're

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Speaker 2: sending some money for the drugs. And of course the

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Speaker 2: dog doesn't want has any nothing to do with his money,

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Speaker 2: you know. And so in the end they had so

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Speaker 2: much money because the train station guys were feeding, he

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Speaker 2: didn't need more than food, and so in the end

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Speaker 2: they wound up with so much money that they started

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Speaker 2: what they called the Shep Fund, and all the money

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Speaker 2: went to the Montana School of Death and Blind to

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Speaker 2: buy those kids at the school Christmas presence. So these

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Speaker 2: were orphaned, deaf and blind kids and the only reason

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Speaker 2: they had Christmas was because this dog loved this man

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Speaker 2: so much and people were donating money for this dog.

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Speaker 2: And it starts to feel like a feel good story too,

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Speaker 2: but it's not. And that's the other reason it was

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Speaker 2: emotionally powerful to me, because it's really it's such a

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Speaker 2: pratcheck's story because you know, you start to think, it's like, well,

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Speaker 2: this dog has so many friends. You know, people loved

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Speaker 2: this dog. It's like, but every day for this dog,

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Speaker 2: every single day, with every train was a new park

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Speaker 2: break because that dog wanted one thing and he expected

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Speaker 2: that man to be on that train every day, and

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Speaker 2: every day that man was not there. So every day

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Speaker 2: this dog's heart breaks again, but that dog never gives

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Speaker 2: up hope, Like every more, every every night that dog

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Speaker 2: goes to bed broken hearted again. Every morning that dog

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Speaker 2: whites up with new hope that maybe that man's coming back.

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Speaker 2: And I just found there are so many angles to

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Speaker 2: that that I thought made it emotionally such a powerful story.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it is. It's a and that's why I

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Speaker 1: do want to encourage people that might get sad talking

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Speaker 1: about dead animals because this is like such a good

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Speaker 1: story and it has it just makes you think of

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Speaker 1: the connection that you have with your pet, and like

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Speaker 1: it's it's even you know, you go on vacation or

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Speaker 1: you leave for a couple weeks or months, you know

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Speaker 1: this because you travel a lot and you have someone

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Speaker 1: else taking care of your animal, but ultimately they always

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Speaker 1: want you and they're happy when you're home, you know,

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Speaker 1: even though they're getting fed and taken care of.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but whenever I get home, like cat's like a

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Speaker 2: point of paying no attention to me for one day,

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, right, yeah, They're like, oh, you're back, as

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Speaker 2: if we care. Yeah, And then the next day it's okay.

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Speaker 2: You know, there are a lot of books about grieving

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Speaker 2: lost pads. I wouldn't recommend a single one of them.

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Speaker 2: Trust me, I read every single one of them all

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Speaker 2: I was preparing to read this book. Part of what

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Speaker 2: I wanted to do with this book was approached that topic,

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Speaker 2: but not not as a therapist, not tell people what

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Speaker 2: to do or how to grieve or how to mourn,

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Speaker 2: just show them examples of how other people have grieved

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Speaker 2: and mourned. And I think that itself is kind of

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Speaker 2: healing because it lets you know the grief that you're

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Speaker 2: feeling is justified and it's normal, and it lets you

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Speaker 2: know there are a full variety of ways you can

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Speaker 2: pay a fitting respect to your patent.

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Speaker 1: So you're obviously an animal lover, in particular cat, your

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Speaker 1: cat dad. What has this has Preparing and writing this

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Speaker 1: book changed how you feel about how you would possibly

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Speaker 1: attribute to them after they pass on.

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Speaker 2: Probably not because I was already a guy who who

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Speaker 2: had buried a cat in his backyard. This is before

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Speaker 2: I started the book, And when I moved, dug the

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Speaker 2: cat up and took it with me and wound up

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Speaker 2: making a reliquary for it. So I think I've always

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Speaker 2: kind of been in of the mindset that they should

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Speaker 2: get a fitting tribute, And in the end I didn't

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Speaker 2: even abandon the one that was buried at my last house. No, No,

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Speaker 2: I don't think it's changing anything for me. I do

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Speaker 2: hear from a lot of people at when I tell

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Speaker 2: them that story, though, it's like I wish I had

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Speaker 2: done the same thing. I wish I had taken my

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Speaker 2: pet with me, because now it's stuck in some stranger's

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Speaker 2: yard because they moved.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's something that I was going to ask you.

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Speaker 1: I know, every single person that I know that has

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Speaker 1: had a pet that's passed, they either bury it in

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Speaker 1: the yard, like you said, or they get it cremated

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Speaker 1: and they have their ashes in and earn in their house.

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Speaker 1: Have you when you were doing the research for this

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Speaker 1: book and anything, did you come across any unconventional ways

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Speaker 1: that people were or like what they were doing with

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Speaker 1: the pet's body after they died.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, the obvious one to talk about, which I

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Speaker 2: don't get into in the book because it's really a

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Speaker 2: tangent is cloning, because that is actually that's actually an

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Speaker 2: entire industry now, cloning your pet. It's all done in Korea,

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Speaker 2: or at least all the big labs that clone pets

378
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Speaker 2: were in Korea. I don't know if there are some

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Speaker 2: labs in China now that are doing it. There might be,

380
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Speaker 2: but it's a Korean thing. They started it. It's interesting

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Speaker 2: because well, first personally, I don't like it. I as

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Speaker 2: much as I love my particular cats, I would never

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Speaker 2: clone them, just because it's like you're bringing in this

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Speaker 2: you're you know, you'd be bringing in this this new

385
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Speaker 2: animal as a baby that's cloned from the old animal,

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Speaker 2: and I think there would be too much of a

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Speaker 2: tendency to expect the new animal to act like the

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Speaker 2: old one. It's like, well, wait a minute, you're you're

389
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Speaker 2: the clone of Fluffy? Why did you just piss on

390
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Speaker 2: the carpet? Fluffy never did that. You know, I would

391
00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:45,199
Speaker 2: not want to create that pressure that they should be

392
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Speaker 2: exactly the same. When I first started on this research,

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Speaker 2: I actually had looked into the animal cloning as maybe

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Speaker 2: that's something I should include in this book. And I

395
00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:59,159
Speaker 2: had contacted some of the labs in Korea and they

396
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Speaker 2: were very well and they were like, yes, if you

397
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Speaker 2: want to come out and talk about the cloning and

398
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Speaker 2: visit our lab and see what we're doing, we'd love

399
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Speaker 2: to host you. Please come out. I was just in

400
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Speaker 2: Korea a few weeks ago. I had a full day

401
00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:17,359
Speaker 2: in Soul on a stopover to Indonesia, and I tried

402
00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:19,800
Speaker 2: to contact the labs and said, day, do you remember

403
00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:22,000
Speaker 2: a few years back we talked about the animal cloning

404
00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:24,480
Speaker 2: and you invited me up. Nobody will talk to me

405
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Speaker 2: anymore about the cloning. I think they have got such

406
00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:31,919
Speaker 2: they've gotten such negative press, and there have been some

407
00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:35,680
Speaker 2: scandals around the cloning that I think they've just kind

408
00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:38,720
Speaker 2: of blocked themselves off to outsiders. There are there have

409
00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:43,480
Speaker 2: been some accusations that they're not actually cloning the animals.

410
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Speaker 2: Like the other website they give you, they give you

411
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Speaker 2: instructions on how to get the DNA after your pet

412
00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:52,320
Speaker 2: has died, and it's almost about the same as like

413
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Speaker 2: getting a stool sample or something, or just sticking a

414
00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:57,880
Speaker 2: thing and I guess and scooping out some genetic material

415
00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:02,159
Speaker 2: and mailing it to them At CREATA been accusations against

416
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Speaker 2: at least one of the labs that they're not actually

417
00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:06,639
Speaker 2: cloning the animals. They're just looking at a picture of

418
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:09,960
Speaker 2: your cat or dog that you're left fing already you

419
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:12,920
Speaker 2: know where I'm going. Yeah, they're just they're just going

420
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Speaker 2: out like okay, well that one looks just why I

421
00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:16,600
Speaker 2: get in it's a kit and just get this one

422
00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:19,080
Speaker 2: and mail it to Cleveland and tell them the guy

423
00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:21,840
Speaker 2: it's the clone. So And I don't know that that's true.

424
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Speaker 2: I mean, it's just accusations that have been made, but yeah,

425
00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:29,360
Speaker 2: that is that's really on. Like the outer realm of

426
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:33,840
Speaker 2: the pet memorializing is the cloning. I have seen videos.

427
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Speaker 2: I have to give the caveat that these are videos

428
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:41,600
Speaker 2: that usually the companies themselves are making, so you can decide,

429
00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:43,560
Speaker 2: you know, maybe they have a vested interest, but they're

430
00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:46,680
Speaker 2: interviews with people who have had their animals cloned, and

431
00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:48,720
Speaker 2: they're very happy with it, and they'll tell you things like,

432
00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:51,520
Speaker 2: oh my god, you know, we got the new dog

433
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:53,520
Speaker 2: and it came in and sat down in the exact

434
00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:55,800
Speaker 2: same place in the house as the old dog. So

435
00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:58,639
Speaker 2: it's obviously a clone because it has his built in

436
00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:01,600
Speaker 2: memory or something. I don't know, but that's that's the

437
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:03,879
Speaker 2: outer fringe to me, is the clone.

438
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:07,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, that that's so outrageous. I imagine that it's a

439
00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:11,040
Speaker 1: huge business money wise, and it probably costs so much

440
00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:14,040
Speaker 1: money to even get something like I'm going to look

441
00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:16,560
Speaker 1: into this more when we get off here.

442
00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:21,240
Speaker 2: I'm I'm animal cloning in Korea. Animal cloning in Korea.

443
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:26,080
Speaker 2: The only I don't think it's being done in North

444
00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:30,960
Speaker 2: America at all. There is cloning in Canada. There's have

445
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:34,480
Speaker 2: you ever heard of the Raelians? They're in Quebec. It's okay,

446
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:38,360
Speaker 2: so our R A E L I A N S

447
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:42,719
Speaker 2: And it's a UFO cult. But they like they all,

448
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:45,159
Speaker 2: they all they're like they all kind of look like

449
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:48,200
Speaker 2: members of Sticks but wearing white robes, and they're they're

450
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:50,520
Speaker 2: in Canada, and it was founded by this guy who

451
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:53,040
Speaker 2: used to be a Formula one race car driver, and

452
00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:56,120
Speaker 2: he's got this whole cosmology. But they're into the cloning,

453
00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:58,959
Speaker 2: and they were the proponents of cloning, the Raelians in

454
00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:01,080
Speaker 2: North America for a long time. Like I've been to

455
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:04,800
Speaker 2: seminars in Los Angeles that the Raliens have done about

456
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:07,560
Speaker 2: the ethics of cloning and the technology of cloning, and

457
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:12,000
Speaker 2: they claim that they have successfully been cloning animals and

458
00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:14,479
Speaker 2: other things. But once again, I have no idea what

459
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:17,399
Speaker 2: goes what goes on with the Raliens for real, But

460
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:19,400
Speaker 2: they're the only ones I know of in North America

461
00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:24,680
Speaker 2: that apparently have a developed process for cloning animals.

462
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:27,320
Speaker 1: It's actually a very weird thing that people would want

463
00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:30,520
Speaker 1: to do that because you're physically just getting an animal

464
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:33,920
Speaker 1: that has I mean, really, it's no different than getting

465
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,760
Speaker 1: the animal off the street that looks like the other animal,

466
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:40,679
Speaker 1: because I imagine with animals it's the same as humans that

467
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:45,680
Speaker 1: are animals that your entire personality is based upon. I mean,

468
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:49,439
Speaker 1: some of it is genetic, and some of it is it's.

469
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:52,880
Speaker 2: Based upon conditioning. It's based upon conditioning. Yeah, personality, I think.

470
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,919
Speaker 1: So all your life experiences, it's the same with the animal.

471
00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:59,800
Speaker 1: Like maybe when I adopted my cat, she was already

472
00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:01,840
Speaker 1: like seven months old, but she lived in the streets

473
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:05,120
Speaker 1: of West Philly, so like that kind of formed her

474
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 1: early personality. You know, she wouldn't be the same if

475
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:10,000
Speaker 1: I got her as a brand new kitt It just.

476
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:16,400
Speaker 2: Right, Well, I think I think it also depends if

477
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:21,000
Speaker 2: you're a person who believes that there's like there's a

478
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 2: certain inherited memory, Like if you really believe that that

479
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,480
Speaker 2: there is inherited memory that will come with the cloning,

480
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 2: maybe that makes it more attractive to you because you

481
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:37,359
Speaker 2: believe that you know, this animal you're getting back already

482
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:42,080
Speaker 2: has inherited you know, the memory or of the behavioral

483
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:47,720
Speaker 2: tendencies of the original animal. On a spiritual level, of course,

484
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:52,439
Speaker 2: it's whacked out because you know, then you get if

485
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 2: you're a spiritual person, I don't see how you can

486
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 2: possibly be okay with the cloning because of your spiritual

487
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 2: person And then there are some really troubling questions about

488
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 2: you know, creating you know, man creating life rather than

489
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:12,439
Speaker 2: life being divined. If there's a soul, will the soul inhabit?

490
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 2: Will the soul deign to come back and inhabit the clone?

491
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:19,439
Speaker 2: And if not, you know what do you have? You

492
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 2: basically have a robot.

493
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:29,800
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494
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497
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498
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499
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500
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501
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505
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506
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507
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510
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Speaker 1: Obviously, there's like levels of people's attachment to pets, and

511
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:34,400
Speaker 1: then there's normal, and then there's just like this extra

512
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get my pet cloned, and then there's just like,

513
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 1: you know, normal people or whatever. What about do people

514
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,440
Speaker 1: have you ever come across like people demanding to get

515
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 1: buried with their pets? Like can a person be in

516
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:50,120
Speaker 1: a pet cemetery?

517
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 2: Sure they can. And it's funny because so it is

518
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 2: okay people can be buried in pet cemeteries. Not every

519
00:26:58,000 --> 00:26:59,920
Speaker 2: pet cemetery will do it. Of course, every pitts and

520
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:02,359
Speaker 2: is going to govern themselves the way they want to

521
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 2: be governed. There's there's not necessarily in most jurisdictions, there's

522
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 2: not necessarily a problem with it because human ashes are

523
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,440
Speaker 2: usually no longer considered like organic material. That's why you

524
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 2: can go out, like I can go out and I

525
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:20,240
Speaker 2: can spread someone's ashes in the desert. I can't go

526
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:22,479
Speaker 2: out and take the corpse and chop it into pieces

527
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:24,640
Speaker 2: and spread it into the desert. There's a big difference

528
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 2: when it comes to the ash. So people can be

529
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,600
Speaker 2: buried in pet cemeteries the pit cemeteries who do it

530
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 2: are not allowed to advertise it, which I don't think

531
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:35,119
Speaker 2: is any kind of moral issue. I think it's just

532
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:38,639
Speaker 2: I think the big cemeteries, you know, the big cemetery chains,

533
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 2: don't want the competition, you know, because they think it

534
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:42,880
Speaker 2: would be really appealing to people to say it's like, well,

535
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 2: wait a minute, I don't have to pay ten thousand

536
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 2: dollars or a burial at forst Wan. I can just

537
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:48,639
Speaker 2: have my ashes put in what next to Fwaffee and

538
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:50,360
Speaker 2: the pit cemetery, let's do that.

539
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 1: You know.

540
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 2: It's because it's also a much cheaper option, so they're

541
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,120
Speaker 2: not allowed to advertise it. Many of them do it.

542
00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 2: There's a very interesting story that the pet cemetery with

543
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 2: this happened at I did not include this in the

544
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 2: book because they didn't want they didn't want their name

545
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 2: to be It's not that what happened wasn't their fault,

546
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:09,880
Speaker 2: but they didn't want to be involved in their name

547
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:14,000
Speaker 2: too by consequence be somewhat besmirged. But there was this

548
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 2: very wealthy guy and he had commissioned actually this huge,

549
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 2: huge tomb sculpture of his cats. And he had four cats,

550
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 2: and they had all died and he had buried them

551
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 2: in this pet cemetery, and then he had made provision

552
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 2: after he died to be buried his ashes to be

553
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,399
Speaker 2: cremated and his ashes put alongside his cats so they

554
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 2: could be together forever. And so he dies, the cats

555
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 2: are already buried, and they get a message from the

556
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 2: guy's sister. It's like, yeah, you know, my brother has died.

557
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 2: We want to bring the ashes to you so it

558
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 2: can be interred alongside the cats. So they had a

559
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 2: funeral forum at the pet cemetery, buried, buried the ashes

560
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 2: alongside the cats. And then about a year later, the

561
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 2: pet cemetery gets the message from the guy's of state attorney,

562
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 2: because nobly the rich guy got a high powered attorney

563
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 2: handling of the state affairs. And the attorney says, it's like,

564
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 2: you know, I've never heard from anyone on your end.

565
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 2: You know, I have the guy's ashes and we've been

566
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 2: waiting to bury them. You know, how do we arrange

567
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 2: this because this is you know this this these are

568
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,360
Speaker 2: the terms of his will that he's buried alongside his cats.

569
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 2: And they told the attorney it's like, well, we already

570
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 2: did it. We already had a funeral for Hm and

571
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 2: buried the ashes, and the attorney says, no, you didn't,

572
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:26,959
Speaker 2: because I've had the ashes all along. I'm the one

573
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 2: who picked up the ashes from the crematory. You know,

574
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 2: I've had the ashes in my possession ever since he died.

575
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 2: And they're like, well, we had a funeral with his

576
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 2: family and they buried the ashes, and those are not

577
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 2: his ashes. I guarantee you those are not his ashes.

578
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 2: So you can't see why the pet cemetery didn't want

579
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 2: to be named, because it's not their fault at all.

580
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 2: But you know, so they wound up not they didn't

581
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 2: know what to do, so no one knows to this day,

582
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,400
Speaker 2: no one knows. And they wound up taking the other ashes,

583
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 2: opening up the Great Beginning and putting putting the second

584
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 2: set of ashes in with the first set of ashes,

585
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 2: and the cats. So there's four cats. They're owner's ashes,

586
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 2: and a complete stranger that someone picked up from the crematory,

587
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 2: and no one knows who it is. I can imagine too,

588
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 2: like you know the cats down there, like you know,

589
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 2: when they when they put the original set of ashes

590
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 2: down there, I'm sure the cats are like, who the

591
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:27,080
Speaker 2: hell is this? Guy, get out of our gray. You're

592
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 2: not our person. Get out of here. So some guys

593
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:30,960
Speaker 2: trap down there with four cats.

594
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 1: Oh my god. Yeah, that's definitely a problem with the crematorium.

595
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:38,480
Speaker 1: And then somebody's missing their family member, I guess, which is,

596
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 1: oh god, what a mess. All right, So, speaking of

597
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 1: you were talking about cloning, which I think is probably

598
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 1: the most outrageous thing you could do when a pet dies.

599
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 1: But this is also up there, I know. So I

600
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 1: wanted to talk to you about this place that used

601
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 1: to live near. When I first met you, you were

602
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 1: living in California and and you moved over to the

603
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 1: desert and you were in Arizona for a while. Yeah,

604
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 1: and there's a place there that practices cryonics, which is

605
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:10,440
Speaker 1: when they freeze your dead body with the intention of

606
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 1: restoring it back to good health in the future when

607
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 1: that technology is available. Have you ever heard of this

608
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 1: place or know anything about it?

609
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 2: Visited this place? Yeah, So it's called Alcore. Alcore is

610
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 2: one of only two cryonic facilities in the United States

611
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 2: that actually stores bodies. And I was living in Tucson

612
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 2: and Alcre's in Scottsdale, and I visited al Cord. If

613
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 2: you call alcore and ask them very very nicely and

614
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 2: kind of pretend that you're interested in having your body frozen.

615
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 2: They will give you a tour, they will let you

616
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 2: in there and let you walk around, and it's very

617
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 2: it's very interesting. It really in some ways it kind

618
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 2: of it kind of mirrors the talk about cloning, because

619
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:59,440
Speaker 2: it's really one of those like out there fringe. It's

620
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 2: really want to those out there fringed things that has

621
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 2: a lot of weird and ethical questions that come. So

622
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 2: the idea is that you know you've died, you've died

623
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 2: of cancer, and you're eighty six years old and your

624
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 2: body can't continue, and so they're going to freeze you

625
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 2: and put you in this deep freeze. It's like some

626
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 2: kind of it's like a I think it's a nitrogen

627
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 2: liquid nitrogen solution or something like ultimate deep freeze, and

628
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 2: they're going to freeze your body and then at some

629
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 2: undetermined point in the future, when and if we ever

630
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 2: get to the point that we can cure cancer, they're

631
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 2: going to take you out of the deep freeze, take

632
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 2: your DNA material and basically do do cloning and clone

633
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 2: a new body and grow you your own new body

634
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 2: as a young person and then put the brain inside

635
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 2: the body, and so you'll get to you know, you'll

636
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:52,240
Speaker 2: get to start again in the prime of life. And

637
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 2: they have these big storage containers. There's some there're giant tubes,

638
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 2: and within each tube there are five seconds, five little

639
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 2: tubes within each tube. And so there are four tubes

640
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 2: on the outside for full bodies and they just PLoP

641
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 2: them in and then there's a center tube, a center

642
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 2: column for just heads. And so because if you can't,

643
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:16,040
Speaker 2: if you can't afford full body freezing, what they'll do

644
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:18,160
Speaker 2: is they'll just chop your head off and they'll put

645
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:21,520
Speaker 2: it in the center column. Because which sounds really I mean,

646
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 2: you know, it sounds pretty far fetch. It's like, oh,

647
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 2: what now, you're just saving my head. But you know,

648
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:28,680
Speaker 2: it's like, if we can get to the point where

649
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 2: we can clone an entire body and download your brain,

650
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 2: we're probably at a point where we can do it

651
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 2: just from the head alone rather than the body itself.

652
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 1: It's so I feel like I about this one, and

653
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 1: then also the cloning, that it's just this science that

654
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 1: they just prey on people because it's so much money.

655
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 1: I was looking it up as far as because they

656
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:55,040
Speaker 1: do it with animals too, Apparently they can.

657
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, they've started doing that. When I was there, I

658
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 2: remember they showed me a cab, so they do have

659
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 2: some animals in.

660
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:07,000
Speaker 1: There, and it's like, okay, you could just freezing an

661
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 1: animal then we're not even talking about human but just

662
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:13,920
Speaker 1: freezing an animal's brain can range anywhere from five thousand

663
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:17,400
Speaker 1: to thirty two thousand dollars and then you have to

664
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:19,400
Speaker 1: pay storage fees every month.

665
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 2: To Well that's the thing because it's, first of all,

666
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:25,279
Speaker 2: it's a it's a very expensive process because think about

667
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,920
Speaker 2: the technology involved to permanently freeze a body and to

668
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 2: keep it frozen for you know, you might have to

669
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 2: be frozen for five hundred years. But well, seriously, I mean,

670
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 2: how long is it going to take if we ever

671
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:40,440
Speaker 2: get to the point that you know, we can we

672
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 2: can revive these people. It's the The facility is interesting

673
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 2: because they showed me like the workshop where they cut

674
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:51,160
Speaker 2: off the heads and it's a home depot saw. It's like,

675
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:53,200
Speaker 2: nothing special, It's just like a saw that someone has

676
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:55,800
Speaker 2: gone down to home depot and bought.

677
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:59,480
Speaker 1: So if but listen, some of my some of my

678
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:01,800
Speaker 1: best topsy tools are from home depot.

679
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 2: So okay, all right, fair enough. I mean I go

680
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:09,280
Speaker 2: to Low's, but you can do it. The most famous

681
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:14,000
Speaker 2: person who has ever been chronically suspended, and by the way,

682
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:17,799
Speaker 2: a lot of people call this cryogenic, but I was

683
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:23,360
Speaker 2: told at the facility themselves that the proper term is cryonic. Cryogenic. Technically,

684
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:27,399
Speaker 2: I guess it means freezing them on like a microscopic level.

685
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 2: Is that correct?

686
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're they're very stingy about the terminology between the

687
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 1: both of them, and they want to distinguish that they

688
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:34,760
Speaker 1: are different.

689
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:38,640
Speaker 2: It's cryonic, Yeah, it's cryonic. The most famous person so

690
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 2: there were rumors that Walt Disney was put into cryonic suspension,

691
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 2: but they do not have him there. If he isn't

692
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 2: cryonic suspension, it's there. The most famous person ever put

693
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 2: into suspension is do you know who Ted Williams is?

694
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:54,359
Speaker 2: He was a famous old baseball player. Yeah, okay, so

695
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 2: Ted Williams is there. The lady told me that they

696
00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:00,360
Speaker 2: often have people who will like pull up like a

697
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:02,719
Speaker 2: pickup truck and they'll jump out with like an autograph

698
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,480
Speaker 2: Ted Williams baseball or baseball card, just take a selfie

699
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 2: out in front of like the Alcore sign to show

700
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 2: that they had like it's their version for Ted Williams

701
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:13,239
Speaker 2: fans of visiting his grave. Oh my god, there is

702
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 2: a pendant to this story about Alcore, which is which

703
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 2: is really weird and I cannot vouch for it. You can,

704
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 2: you can decide what you want. Do you know who

705
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 2: Paul Allen is? He was one of the co founders

706
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:27,960
Speaker 2: of Microsoft.

707
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:29,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like I've heard of him before.

708
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:33,399
Speaker 2: Okay, So Paul Allen was a successively wealthy man who

709
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:35,359
Speaker 2: is one of the co founders of Microsoft, and he died.

710
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 2: He owned a property just south of there, around a

711
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:42,759
Speaker 2: place called Madera Canyon. It's about an hour and a

712
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 2: half to the south of where Alcore is. And the

713
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:49,239
Speaker 2: rumor is that the re he bought that towards the

714
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 2: end of his wife. And the rumor is the reason

715
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 2: he bought that property is he was setting up his

716
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 2: own chronic lab in Arizona at that property so he

717
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 2: could be frozen in like his billionaire her friends would

718
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,879
Speaker 2: be frozen with him, and it should be serviced by Alcorbet. Again,

719
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:05,800
Speaker 2: I can't. I can't promise you if this is true

720
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:08,319
Speaker 2: or not rumor. I do a lot of hiking, and

721
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:10,120
Speaker 2: I do a lot of exploring, and I've been in

722
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:12,440
Speaker 2: those canyons. So when I lived in Arizona, that's all

723
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:14,560
Speaker 2: I did was, you know, just explore and go hiking

724
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:17,600
Speaker 2: and look for weird things. I've looked at that I've

725
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:20,440
Speaker 2: looked at that property from a satellite and it is weird.

726
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:23,280
Speaker 2: It doesn't look like a normal house. But you can't

727
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 2: approach it. I know one girl who tried to go

728
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 2: in there because she was really curious, and she tried

729
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 2: to access the property and she said a bunch of

730
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:33,640
Speaker 2: guys came out like little golf carts with guns and

731
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 2: chased her away. So but but this is the story. Again,

732
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:40,360
Speaker 2: I can't baucher this, but this is the story that

733
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 2: supposedly Paul Allen bought this property to create like a

734
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 2: billionaire's boys club croatic lab so they could have their

735
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 2: own storage pods.

736
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:53,040
Speaker 1: My question, I guess with the cryonics is like, let's

737
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 1: say you're eighty five, and the whole process of it

738
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 1: is very weird because they want to freeze you as

739
00:37:58,200 --> 00:37:59,919
Speaker 1: soon as possible when you die.

740
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:02,680
Speaker 2: Yes, well, yeah, to preserve the brain.

741
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:05,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I under and I understand that, but it's

742
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 1: like someone from that facility kind of has to be

743
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:12,720
Speaker 1: on standby waiting like that happened one time. I wasn't

744
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:14,680
Speaker 1: doing anything with that, but one time I had to

745
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:17,840
Speaker 1: do an autopsy. They wanted to have look at a

746
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:20,319
Speaker 1: brain of someone that had MS that died, and they

747
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:22,440
Speaker 1: wanted it like as soon as she died, and I

748
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:24,839
Speaker 1: had to be like on call to take her brain out.

749
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:27,880
Speaker 1: You know, it's just for research, it makes sense, but

750
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 1: for this it's just it's kind of weird. And then

751
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:33,759
Speaker 1: they profuse your body with these certain chemicals that are

752
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:36,360
Speaker 1: supposed to preserve it so it won't they won't like

753
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:38,880
Speaker 1: get damage from the intense freezing and stuff.

754
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:42,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, but they don't want I mean again, I'm no

755
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:46,879
Speaker 2: proponent of freezing some people, but I understand what they're

756
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:49,439
Speaker 2: trying to do with getting you in the deep freeze

757
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:51,480
Speaker 2: as soon as possible because they don't want to lose

758
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:55,240
Speaker 2: any information from the brain or have you suffer any

759
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 2: cellular degeneration because they want, you know, because in theory,

760
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 2: they need to bring you back, so they need the

761
00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 2: you know, they need the optimal material to work. But

762
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 2: there is one thing about this about the cryonics that

763
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:12,279
Speaker 2: I think is really interesting now because we are at

764
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 2: the point, well, we can talk about this from a

765
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 2: completely different context than the way it was intended. Because

766
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:23,759
Speaker 2: when it was intended, and by the way, they have

767
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 2: there as a relic, they have the first tube of

768
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:30,440
Speaker 2: anyone who ever was put into cryonic suspension. It was

769
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:33,280
Speaker 2: a guy in California who had built his own tube

770
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:37,359
Speaker 2: and had suspended himself and like basically he invented it,

771
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 2: and he invented the technology and in his garage and

772
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:44,279
Speaker 2: he had himself frozen in his garage. He like had

773
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:46,920
Speaker 2: his his relatives do this, and this was the foundation

774
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 2: of Alcore, this cryonic suspension thing, and so they they

775
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:52,040
Speaker 2: later took him out of that and put him in

776
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:53,759
Speaker 2: one of their tubes. But they have that guy and

777
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:57,800
Speaker 2: they have his his like primitive you know, home Debot

778
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:02,000
Speaker 2: style tube you know, on display there as a kind

779
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:06,840
Speaker 2: of relic. But originally it was really literally intended to

780
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:09,880
Speaker 2: be Okay, you're gonna die, and you know, we're gonna

781
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 2: we're gonna fix your body, we're gonna or we're gonna

782
00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:14,400
Speaker 2: grow you nobody, and we're gonna put your memory in

783
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:16,200
Speaker 2: it and your brain in it and you're gonna live again.

784
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:21,520
Speaker 2: But now there is a more legitimate option, which is

785
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 2: that okay, maybe it's possible to take your brain and

786
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:29,920
Speaker 2: use it as a hard drive and download the information

787
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:33,600
Speaker 2: and let you live as you know, a cyborg, or

788
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:36,319
Speaker 2: to let you live again as a computer program. And

789
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 2: that's a discussion now that people who are into croyonics,

790
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:41,720
Speaker 2: that's a discussion they have to have with potential clients.

791
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:43,200
Speaker 2: It's like, you know, they have to ask them on

792
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:46,840
Speaker 2: the forms. It's like are you okay with living again virtually?

793
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 3: Ye?

794
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 2: Or you know, do you have to do you have

795
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:53,719
Speaker 2: to live? Yeah, it's a weird discussion. Well unless you're

796
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:56,880
Speaker 2: into like simulation theory theory and you think the entire

797
00:40:57,040 --> 00:40:59,480
Speaker 2: universe is a computer program, in which case maybe it

798
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:01,839
Speaker 2: makes perfect sense and it doesn't bother you. But that's

799
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:04,520
Speaker 2: a discussion now that people who are interested in chronics

800
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:06,960
Speaker 2: have to have. It's like, do I need to live

801
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:11,280
Speaker 2: again in an organic body or am I okay living

802
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:15,640
Speaker 2: in you know, as an android? Or am I okay

803
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 2: living again as a computer program? Because that the idea.

804
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 2: I still think the idea that they're just going to

805
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 2: get get you a new body and you know you're

806
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:25,440
Speaker 2: going to live again as a young man with all

807
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:28,400
Speaker 2: your memories. I still think that's really far fetched. But

808
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:30,200
Speaker 2: the idea that they might be able to tap into

809
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:32,920
Speaker 2: your brain and you know, upload you to a computer,

810
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:34,799
Speaker 2: that doesn't seem so far fetched anymore to me.

811
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 1: No, it really doesn't. With technology and everything that the

812
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:39,680
Speaker 1: way it is, it would just be some kind of

813
00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 1: like high level AI thing or something like so weird.

814
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:47,200
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah again, but it also brings up a lot

815
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 2: of questions, uh, thought provoking and disturbing ones again and

816
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:54,400
Speaker 2: mostly the question about spirituality. You know, it's like, because

817
00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:57,640
Speaker 2: you know you, if you're a spiritual person, you can't

818
00:41:57,680 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 2: go for it because you'd be denying that spiritual as

819
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:02,239
Speaker 2: even exists if you're just going to live as a

820
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 2: computer progroom.

821
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:07,160
Speaker 1: I wonder too with these like who pays for all this?

822
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 1: If you're eighty years old and you want to die

823
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:13,759
Speaker 1: and do this, that's fine, but you don't have, like

824
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 1: you can't have like your credit card lick linked up

825
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 1: to a subscription for the monthly fee, so once you die,

826
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:23,040
Speaker 1: you have family, Like you're kind of putting this burden

827
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 1: on everybody else, Like how's that work?

828
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 2: I think the way to do it and I've never

829
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:30,640
Speaker 2: gotten into the financing, but I think the way to

830
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:32,920
Speaker 2: do it, and the way I understand it is you

831
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:36,319
Speaker 2: set up kind of a trust fund. Oh so, you know,

832
00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 2: let's say it's like you have a house and it's

833
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 2: worth a million dollars, so maybe you sell that. You know,

834
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:44,279
Speaker 2: you take the money from the house, and instead of

835
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:46,840
Speaker 2: giving it to a relative, instead of letting a relative

836
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:49,880
Speaker 2: inherit the house, you basically you're giving the house to

837
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:53,520
Speaker 2: the cryonic facility and the you know, the cryonic facility.

838
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:55,880
Speaker 2: Maybe they liquidate the house, they get a million dollars

839
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:57,959
Speaker 2: in cash, they put it in a fund under your name,

840
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:01,920
Speaker 2: and then you know, the yearly income, the yearly interest

841
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:05,480
Speaker 2: from the investments winds up paying your storage fee and

842
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:09,680
Speaker 2: then I guess if there's anything left over when you're revived,

843
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:12,279
Speaker 2: maybe maybe you get a check at the end. You know,

844
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:14,160
Speaker 2: this is nuts.

845
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:17,440
Speaker 1: This is like like a rich people problem. It's just

846
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:21,400
Speaker 1: like something would never be on my radar. All right,

847
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:24,440
Speaker 1: So earlier you were talking about that you went to

848
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:27,399
Speaker 1: Korea to see you know, you stopped by there, but

849
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:29,840
Speaker 1: but you were there over there a couple of weeks

850
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:34,320
Speaker 1: ago because of Indonesia, Why don't you tell everybody why

851
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:36,400
Speaker 1: you were in Indonesia.

852
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:39,920
Speaker 2: So there's a festival in Indonesia called Minine. It's not

853
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 2: it's not well, I should say. On the island of

854
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:45,879
Speaker 2: Sula Wasi, in the area known as Tona Taraji. Ton

855
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:48,759
Speaker 2: of Taraja is a separate culture on the island of Sulawesi,

856
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:53,920
Speaker 2: and you can google this. Ma apostrophe is an accent

857
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:56,960
Speaker 2: mark and E n E is usually how it's spelled.

858
00:43:57,320 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 2: And it's a mummy festival. And the people, the people

859
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:05,359
Speaker 2: who live in the mountains of Taraja, they don't permanently

860
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 2: bury their dead when someone dies. It's a different culture.

861
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:12,760
Speaker 2: And the big thing in live in Taraja is dead.

862
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:15,759
Speaker 2: Like a funeral is way bigger than a wedding. Like

863
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:17,880
Speaker 2: it can take years to get enough money even for

864
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:20,360
Speaker 2: the funeral to say goodbye to someone. It's the funeral

865
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:22,480
Speaker 2: is a big deal. And when someone dies, they don't

866
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:27,200
Speaker 2: bury the body and they don't cremate it. They'll go. Nowadays,

867
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:29,880
Speaker 2: they used to use natural tannins. Nowadays they inject it

868
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:32,239
Speaker 2: with formaldehyde to try to preserve it, and they make

869
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:34,200
Speaker 2: a mummy out of it and they put it in

870
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 2: family crypts. You know these above ground tombs and in August,

871
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 2: which is after the crops come in, you know, the

872
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:44,239
Speaker 2: rice crops come in August, so they have time to

873
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:45,880
Speaker 2: do different things. So now they have free times, so

874
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:48,560
Speaker 2: they don't have to till the ground anymore. In August

875
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:50,879
Speaker 2: kind of like late August becomes the time of the dead,

876
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:54,560
Speaker 2: and so people will start thinking about what dead ancestors

877
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:56,080
Speaker 2: they want to see, and it's like, you know, do

878
00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 2: you want to see Mom this year? Yeah, let's see Mom.

879
00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:00,399
Speaker 2: Let's pull Mom at it. And so they'll take Mom out,

880
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 2: and you know, they'll unwrap the mummy because they're in

881
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:04,880
Speaker 2: they're in a coffin and they're wrapped up in clothing

882
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:08,359
Speaker 2: and fabric. So they'll take Mom out and they'll undress her.

883
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 2: They'll they'll clean her off, so they'll get you know,

884
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:14,200
Speaker 2: little soft brushes and they'll clean all the dust off

885
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:16,360
Speaker 2: the mummy and then they'll redress her again, and so

886
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 2: you know, they'll get her new clothes and they'll stand

887
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 2: her up and everybody takes a family portrait with you know,

888
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:24,960
Speaker 2: the dead mother, and and you know, they'll sometimes they'll

889
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 2: even walk them around the villages. They'll talk to him.

890
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:29,640
Speaker 2: It's a really loving thing. From a Western perspective, it

891
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:32,239
Speaker 2: sounds like something from a bizarre horror movie, but you

892
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 2: know it's all done with love. It's you know, in Taraga,

893
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:38,279
Speaker 2: the dead aren't dead the way they are here. They

894
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:41,400
Speaker 2: still have some you know, spiritual and social role in

895
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:44,479
Speaker 2: the family. And so they'll undress the mummy, they'll clean

896
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:47,440
Speaker 2: it off, they'll redress it, they'll talk to it, everyone

897
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 2: will post her a picture with it, and then they'll

898
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:50,919
Speaker 2: put it back in the coffin, and you know, and

899
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:53,160
Speaker 2: maybe next year they'll take our dad or something. But

900
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:57,000
Speaker 2: this happens in villages all around Taraja. I should also

901
00:45:57,040 --> 00:46:00,719
Speaker 2: point out that, you know, before the funeral, before the

902
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:04,000
Speaker 2: official goodbye, they'll just keep the mummy in the house too.

903
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:08,440
Speaker 2: So this trip I was able to visit a home

904
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:13,080
Speaker 2: in Taraja where they have their mother grandmother. It's a

905
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:17,080
Speaker 2: family compound. Who was the oldest woman ever recorded in Taraja.

906
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:19,200
Speaker 2: She died two years ago at the age of one

907
00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:22,520
Speaker 2: hundred and four. And so this very old lady is

908
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:26,200
Speaker 2: mummified in their house and she's just in there in

909
00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:29,759
Speaker 2: a coffin in their front room. And I was able

910
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:32,040
Speaker 2: to go over and visit. You know, they're like, yeah,

911
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:35,120
Speaker 2: can you bring a package of eggs. It's like, why

912
00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:37,640
Speaker 2: are we making mom let? They're like, no, it's for mom.

913
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:39,680
Speaker 2: She likes she liked eggs. It's like a nice tribute

914
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:42,120
Speaker 2: for so like we brought some gifts. We are some

915
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:45,759
Speaker 2: eggs for the dead mother, grandmother. We were allowed to

916
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:47,840
Speaker 2: go in there and talk to her and meet her.

917
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:51,080
Speaker 2: They've got her, you know, in an open faced coffin,

918
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:52,440
Speaker 2: and people will just come in and talk to her.

919
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:54,600
Speaker 2: They'll leave little notes for her. There was like a

920
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:57,000
Speaker 2: couple of little notes sitting by her coffin to tell

921
00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:58,840
Speaker 2: her things. And I was like, well, what does this

922
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:00,360
Speaker 2: note say? And the guy's like, oh, oh, it's an

923
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:02,440
Speaker 2: apology because we had to use the rest of her soap.

924
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:07,040
Speaker 2: But I mean, like I said, from a Western perspective,

925
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:09,239
Speaker 2: it sounds whacked out, but these people are also they

926
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:12,960
Speaker 2: have a great attitude about death. They're not they're not grieving,

927
00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:16,800
Speaker 2: they're not crying, they're not angry. Because the dead continue

928
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:19,120
Speaker 2: to have this role. People will always ask it's like,

929
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:21,080
Speaker 2: you know what you're saying, there's there's been a dead

930
00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:23,440
Speaker 2: person in their front for two years. It must smell.

931
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:26,759
Speaker 2: It doesn't smell. First of all. After two years, she's

932
00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:29,560
Speaker 2: basically like shoe leather anyway. And actually she looks really

933
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:32,399
Speaker 2: good for considering she was one hundred and four. She's

934
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:35,760
Speaker 2: been dead for two years. She looks great.

935
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:40,160
Speaker 1: It doesn't smell like, there's no smell. You don't smell

936
00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:41,640
Speaker 1: like even chemical or nothing.

937
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:44,560
Speaker 2: There's just like no, no, no, no. They use they

938
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:48,040
Speaker 2: use formaldehyde and whatever else they're doing. It takes away

939
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:50,040
Speaker 2: the smell, so there's no smell. It just smells a

940
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:53,320
Speaker 2: little musty. That's about it. Because this is a woman,

941
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:55,520
Speaker 2: you know, who's just been sitting there, not moving for

942
00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:57,640
Speaker 2: two years. It's just a little bit musty in there,

943
00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:00,840
Speaker 2: that's about it. The last time I was in Taraja,

944
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:04,799
Speaker 2: it's because you know, in the United States, this would

945
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:07,760
Speaker 2: be scandalous and it would be like front page news.

946
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:12,399
Speaker 2: It's like family keeps family keeps mummified mother in their

947
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:13,440
Speaker 2: front room for two years.

948
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:16,880
Speaker 1: It actually happened sometimes sometime this year. I remember we

949
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:20,120
Speaker 1: did a story on Mother Knows Death about some guy

950
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:22,920
Speaker 1: that was living with his wife's dead body for a

951
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:23,840
Speaker 1: very long time.

952
00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:27,160
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it's scandalous and it's a sign of mental illness,

953
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:29,600
Speaker 2: you know. And here they do intend to have a

954
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:31,759
Speaker 2: funeral for her and to put her in a tomb.

955
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:33,480
Speaker 2: It's just it's gonna take them a little while because

956
00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:35,239
Speaker 2: they have to you know, you got it. First of all,

957
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:37,560
Speaker 2: you have to get buffaloes because you have to sacrifice

958
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:39,799
Speaker 2: a buffalo, and you have to you know, build the

959
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:42,960
Speaker 2: structures for the funeral in a buffalo. And Taraja and money,

960
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:45,120
Speaker 2: it's like buying a sports car, you know, So like

961
00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:47,000
Speaker 2: the whole family's gonna have to agree. It's like, okay,

962
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:49,640
Speaker 2: now we have enough money, and you know, now we're

963
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:51,319
Speaker 2: now we're going to do things. So they said maybe

964
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:53,560
Speaker 2: next year or maybe maybe by the end of this year.

965
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:56,240
Speaker 2: Though the funeral four The last time I was in Taraja,

966
00:48:56,280 --> 00:49:00,239
Speaker 2: though they're so casual about this that I was. The

967
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:02,600
Speaker 2: last time I went to this festival, I was staying

968
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:05,400
Speaker 2: in a village in like, you know, a hut in

969
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:08,600
Speaker 2: a village, and I had been going around to other

970
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:11,760
Speaker 2: little villages in the area, taking pictures of the mummies

971
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 2: and you know, people cleaning their relatives and redressing them.

972
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:19,360
Speaker 2: And the last day I was in this village, a lady,

973
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 2: a girl walks in and you know, cause I had

974
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:23,600
Speaker 2: gotten to know the family of staying in a family house.

975
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:26,600
Speaker 2: It's like a home stay and you know, eating with

976
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:29,439
Speaker 2: them and just hanging out with them. And she comes

977
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:32,360
Speaker 2: and she's like, oh, yeah, so you're really into this

978
00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:35,200
Speaker 2: death stuff, right. It's like, yeah, yeah, it seems like it.

979
00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:37,400
Speaker 2: I mean, that's why I'm here. She's like, did we

980
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:39,920
Speaker 2: forget to tell you that our grandmother is dead in

981
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:42,400
Speaker 2: the hut next to you? I was like, no, you

982
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:44,960
Speaker 2: never mentioned that, which is just like a strange thing

983
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:46,920
Speaker 2: to forget to mention. It's like, would you like to

984
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:49,319
Speaker 2: meet her? It's like, yeah, yeah I would. Let's go.

985
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:51,359
Speaker 2: Let's go meet granny. And so we went in there.

986
00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:53,319
Speaker 2: She was just in shake it. She looked great. She

987
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:55,879
Speaker 2: had been there for a while. They would come in

988
00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:58,920
Speaker 2: and you know, it's really cute because they really respect

989
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:01,239
Speaker 2: these people. Like I said, be dead in Taraja isn't

990
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:03,439
Speaker 2: like being dead here. Like they'll knock on the door

991
00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:06,960
Speaker 2: first and like Grandma, Grandma, we're coming in? Is that okay?

992
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:10,160
Speaker 2: We're coming in. We have a visitor for you. You know,

993
00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:12,239
Speaker 2: they'll let her know so we don't just barge in

994
00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:16,840
Speaker 2: and stuff. It's at quite.

995
00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:19,879
Speaker 1: Did just thinking about you going there? Like I mean,

996
00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:22,279
Speaker 1: they they can speak English to you, like, how do

997
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:24,520
Speaker 1: you tran how do you speak with them?

998
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:28,120
Speaker 2: No, A lot of people there speak broken kind of

999
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:31,360
Speaker 2: pigeon English English. You know, you got to remember that

1000
00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:34,640
Speaker 2: English is the new Esperanto kind of because of with

1001
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:38,879
Speaker 2: you know, with with music, with movies, and with television.

1002
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:42,360
Speaker 2: It's really hard to find a place where they can't

1003
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:45,360
Speaker 2: put together a couple of sentences of English. And also

1004
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:48,799
Speaker 2: when I go there, I hire a driver and they

1005
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:50,640
Speaker 2: don't mean a car, it's like a it's like kind

1006
00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:52,399
Speaker 2: of like a dirt bike. Because the roads there are

1007
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:55,759
Speaker 2: really muddy. I had tried to rent my own motorcycle

1008
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:58,320
Speaker 2: there and the guy watched me go down one street

1009
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:00,200
Speaker 2: and flag me down and said, no, you you don't

1010
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:02,480
Speaker 2: drive a motorcycle in Taraja. You're going to get killed

1011
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:04,960
Speaker 2: on these roads. You're you're driving with this guy. So

1012
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:07,160
Speaker 2: I just pay a guy. I had a guy, a

1013
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:10,239
Speaker 2: great guy, on the last trip. His name was Arwin Uh.

1014
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:13,600
Speaker 2: He knew all the villages, he spoke, he spoke fluent English,

1015
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:15,600
Speaker 2: and so I would just ride on the back of

1016
00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:17,799
Speaker 2: his motorbike and we'd go from from city to city

1017
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:19,200
Speaker 2: and he'd translate everything for me.

1018
00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:22,680
Speaker 1: It's really cool that they just they don't have a

1019
00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:27,359
Speaker 1: problem with with foreigners coming in and watching what they're

1020
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:29,759
Speaker 1: doing like there, and they actually seem like they want

1021
00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:30,480
Speaker 1: to talk about it.

1022
00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:32,840
Speaker 2: They like it, they like it, but they're also not

1023
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:36,680
Speaker 2: they're also not burdened with it. There's not a lot

1024
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:40,040
Speaker 2: of tourism in Taraja like I would uh, you know.

1025
00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:42,640
Speaker 2: I talked to Erwin one day and it's like, Okay,

1026
00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:44,200
Speaker 2: were we going to that village. He's like, yeah, but

1027
00:51:44,239 --> 00:51:46,160
Speaker 2: I heard from my friend who's up there that there's

1028
00:51:46,239 --> 00:51:48,560
Speaker 2: a lot of tourists. All the tourists are there. I

1029
00:51:48,600 --> 00:51:50,319
Speaker 2: was like, well, let's check it out anyway, and you

1030
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:52,520
Speaker 2: go there, there's like twenty five you know, that's not

1031
00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:54,440
Speaker 2: a lot of tourists. It's not like showing up in

1032
00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:57,560
Speaker 2: Paris in the middle of the summer, you know. You know,

1033
00:51:57,640 --> 00:51:59,920
Speaker 2: I live in Las Vegas. It's like there are more

1034
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:04,719
Speaker 2: more tourists here at any time than residents. So it's

1035
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:08,280
Speaker 2: not a high degree of tourism. And when you get

1036
00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:11,799
Speaker 2: further along, like if there were too many people like

1037
00:52:12,160 --> 00:52:14,360
Speaker 2: at one of the villages, you know, and like trying

1038
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:16,880
Speaker 2: to take photos and trying to stick their nose into things.

1039
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:19,120
Speaker 2: I would just tell ar one's that good for another village,

1040
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:20,920
Speaker 2: and so we would just get on the motorbike and

1041
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:22,680
Speaker 2: go look for another village that was during the ummy.

1042
00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:25,040
Speaker 2: Then always when we got to the next village there

1043
00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:27,200
Speaker 2: was nobody there. It was just me as the only outsider.

1044
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:31,200
Speaker 2: So there's not a lot of tourism. They genuinely seem

1045
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:34,239
Speaker 2: to appreciate the fact that we're interested in them and

1046
00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:37,640
Speaker 2: learning from them. Obviously, it helps if you treat them

1047
00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:40,800
Speaker 2: with respect. And at this point, no one's going to Taraja,

1048
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:44,840
Speaker 2: I think unless they're genuinely interested in it, because you know,

1049
00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:46,759
Speaker 2: it's it's a long way to go and it's hard

1050
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:49,719
Speaker 2: to get to. It also helps if you try to

1051
00:52:50,239 --> 00:52:53,560
Speaker 2: understand some of the local customs. Like I would always

1052
00:52:53,600 --> 00:52:55,680
Speaker 2: bring like a big pack of cigarettes, you know, and

1053
00:52:56,360 --> 00:52:58,120
Speaker 2: the cigarettes aren't for the living, there for the dead,

1054
00:52:58,160 --> 00:52:59,879
Speaker 2: you know. And I actually took some pictures like they'd

1055
00:52:59,880 --> 00:53:01,719
Speaker 2: like a cigarette and show shoved in one of the

1056
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:04,720
Speaker 2: Mummy's mouths, just like you know, give him a sig.

1057
00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:06,719
Speaker 2: I can't hurt him now, you know. So you know,

1058
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:10,759
Speaker 2: we would bring cigarettes or like I there was a

1059
00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:13,120
Speaker 2: really touching series of photos and it's one of the

1060
00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:16,359
Speaker 2: ones that I put on on social media, just this

1061
00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:22,160
Speaker 2: father redressing his son. His son had died young of

1062
00:53:22,160 --> 00:53:25,040
Speaker 2: sepsis this little boy, and he had died a couple

1063
00:53:25,080 --> 00:53:27,000
Speaker 2: of years ago, and so this was the first time

1064
00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:29,520
Speaker 2: the father had opened up the casket to look at

1065
00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:31,319
Speaker 2: the son's army and redress him. And so it was

1066
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:34,840
Speaker 2: really very touching, like the tenderness with which he is

1067
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:38,319
Speaker 2: approaching his son. And they had buried his son, like

1068
00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:40,120
Speaker 2: they had put some money in his hands, like some

1069
00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:42,400
Speaker 2: bolded up bills in his hands as an offering, and

1070
00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:44,920
Speaker 2: the bills had become really tattered. So I walked up

1071
00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:46,680
Speaker 2: to the father and this isn't even a lot of

1072
00:53:46,680 --> 00:53:48,600
Speaker 2: money in American terms, It's just a couple of dollars.

1073
00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:50,239
Speaker 2: But I pulled out some new bills. It's like, can

1074
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:53,279
Speaker 2: I give you some new bills to replace those? And

1075
00:53:53,320 --> 00:53:55,280
Speaker 2: the father was, you know, he was he was flattering.

1076
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:57,799
Speaker 2: He was very flattered by it. He appreciated that and

1077
00:53:57,840 --> 00:53:59,400
Speaker 2: it made things good. You know, He's like, thank you.

1078
00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:01,440
Speaker 2: And so he took the money that I had given him,

1079
00:54:01,480 --> 00:54:03,839
Speaker 2: and he had, you know, put it in the sun's hands.

1080
00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:06,640
Speaker 2: So you know, if you show the respect show that

1081
00:54:06,680 --> 00:54:09,680
Speaker 2: you understand, you know some of the local customs, and

1082
00:54:09,719 --> 00:54:12,040
Speaker 2: it helps, obviously it helps if you're making the offerings

1083
00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:14,960
Speaker 2: and stuff. Uh, no one has any problem with having

1084
00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:16,600
Speaker 2: your ound, No one that I've met.

1085
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:19,480
Speaker 1: I think I now that you're saying that, especially with

1086
00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:22,240
Speaker 1: the loss of a child and stuff, I don't actually

1087
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:25,600
Speaker 1: think it's as weird because I think in most cases,

1088
00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:28,040
Speaker 1: especially if you lose any kind of loved one, it's

1089
00:54:28,080 --> 00:54:31,960
Speaker 1: like once they're cremated or even buried, especially when they

1090
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:34,000
Speaker 1: go to a cemetery, it's kind of like an out

1091
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:37,719
Speaker 1: of sight thing and you just have memories of them

1092
00:54:37,719 --> 00:54:41,359
Speaker 1: and you don't really ever get to have contact with

1093
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:45,520
Speaker 1: their physical body anymore. And it almost just to like

1094
00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:49,839
Speaker 1: hug someone, even though it sounds crazy because they're it.

1095
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:52,120
Speaker 2: Doesn't sound crazy because they're doing it and it works.

1096
00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:55,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's just I totally see that. And

1097
00:54:55,640 --> 00:54:58,960
Speaker 1: speaking of your Instagram, I did want to push people

1098
00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:02,359
Speaker 1: over to that it is it's your handle is at

1099
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:04,960
Speaker 1: hex and colt, so it's h e x E n

1100
00:55:05,120 --> 00:55:08,839
Speaker 1: k U l T, and I want people to go

1101
00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:11,000
Speaker 1: over there so they could see because you just took

1102
00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:14,920
Speaker 1: pictures of all of this stuff. And yes, talking about

1103
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:18,000
Speaker 1: it is one thing, but actually seeing it is because

1104
00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:22,120
Speaker 1: you're describing one hundred percent of what you saw. But

1105
00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:26,520
Speaker 1: to see photos of people holding their dead children and

1106
00:55:26,840 --> 00:55:30,520
Speaker 1: parents and everything like that is just really it's.

1107
00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:34,880
Speaker 2: It's the guy that I mentioned, there's a photo series

1108
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:37,680
Speaker 2: of him with the kid on Instagram. The one hundred

1109
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:39,920
Speaker 2: four year old woman mummy that I mentioned, she's on

1110
00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:42,760
Speaker 2: there tube. The thing about the guy with the kid

1111
00:55:43,560 --> 00:55:47,239
Speaker 2: that really touched me. That made it emotionally powerful for me,

1112
00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:48,920
Speaker 2: because when I got to that village, there were a

1113
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:51,680
Speaker 2: bunch of people doing it and immediately gravitated towards the

1114
00:55:51,719 --> 00:55:53,719
Speaker 2: guy with the kid. I was like, I just want

1115
00:55:53,760 --> 00:55:55,879
Speaker 2: to sit here with this guy and understand what he's

1116
00:55:55,920 --> 00:55:57,759
Speaker 2: doing and be at his side as he does this,

1117
00:55:57,800 --> 00:56:00,399
Speaker 2: because this is this is the one for me. Part

1118
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:03,440
Speaker 2: of it was that that kid had not been prepared,

1119
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:05,840
Speaker 2: He had not been prepared with chemicals, He was not

1120
00:56:06,160 --> 00:56:10,440
Speaker 2: in good condition. That kid's mummy was falling apart already

1121
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:13,360
Speaker 2: after only two years. But there was no sign of

1122
00:56:13,480 --> 00:56:15,680
Speaker 2: revulsion on the part of the father. You know, the

1123
00:56:15,719 --> 00:56:19,319
Speaker 2: father loves the kid and that's all that matters. It

1124
00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:23,040
Speaker 2: doesn't matter that his skin is peeling away like a

1125
00:56:23,120 --> 00:56:25,759
Speaker 2: zombie from for a movie. It doesn't matter to him

1126
00:56:25,880 --> 00:56:28,040
Speaker 2: because love overrides that. That was one of the things

1127
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:30,600
Speaker 2: that was so powerful to me about that particular one

1128
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:33,839
Speaker 2: is specifically because the mummy wasn't in good condition and

1129
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:34,959
Speaker 2: it didn't detern father.

1130
00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:38,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is I really could see that because that

1131
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:41,840
Speaker 1: I feel like that. I always think that that's one.

1132
00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:44,640
Speaker 1: I mean because I have little kids and you're just

1133
00:56:44,680 --> 00:56:47,040
Speaker 1: like that could that would just be the worst thing

1134
00:56:47,040 --> 00:56:49,400
Speaker 1: ever to ever. Like you always think about how to

1135
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:52,359
Speaker 1: these people that lose children like live their life after that,

1136
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:57,080
Speaker 1: and I think that connection might be. I mean, you

1137
00:56:57,080 --> 00:56:59,719
Speaker 1: couldn't do that in America for sure. No.

1138
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:02,120
Speaker 2: But also the thing that I have to point out

1139
00:57:02,120 --> 00:57:05,400
Speaker 2: about this in Indonesia is that the thing that gets

1140
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:08,920
Speaker 2: lost unless you're really there is the amount of humor

1141
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:11,240
Speaker 2: they approach it with, because like you start to describe

1142
00:57:11,239 --> 00:57:14,400
Speaker 2: this and it sounds so somber, you know, so like

1143
00:57:14,440 --> 00:57:17,000
Speaker 2: this somber, sacred thing, but they but they find it's

1144
00:57:17,080 --> 00:57:19,440
Speaker 2: it's a joyful thing, you know, Like I said, you

1145
00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:21,680
Speaker 2: know they were they were lighting cigarettes and putting them

1146
00:57:21,720 --> 00:57:24,520
Speaker 2: in some guy's mouths, you know, like they were putting

1147
00:57:24,560 --> 00:57:26,960
Speaker 2: funny hats on them and stuff. Like I remember the

1148
00:57:27,080 --> 00:57:30,080
Speaker 2: last time I was there, someone came and like, you know,

1149
00:57:30,400 --> 00:57:32,760
Speaker 2: there was this mummy of his kid just sitting there

1150
00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:35,120
Speaker 2: in really bad shape, and the guy just stuck his

1151
00:57:35,120 --> 00:57:37,760
Speaker 2: finger in the mummy's eyesock it, just stuck his finger

1152
00:57:37,800 --> 00:57:40,400
Speaker 2: in the goo and just started laughing. You know. It's

1153
00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:42,280
Speaker 2: like there's a there's an amount of humor with it

1154
00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:46,160
Speaker 2: that we can't that's hard for us to fathom because

1155
00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:47,959
Speaker 2: the dead are so dead here.

1156
00:57:48,680 --> 00:57:51,240
Speaker 1: It's really cool how we just live in this world

1157
00:57:51,320 --> 00:57:54,960
Speaker 1: and how things are just so vastly different from one

1158
00:57:55,000 --> 00:57:58,320
Speaker 1: country to another as far as how how we handle death.

1159
00:57:58,680 --> 00:58:01,760
Speaker 1: But yeah, that I mean, when you talk about this way,

1160
00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:05,640
Speaker 1: it's kind of like it's there's not I think that's

1161
00:58:05,680 --> 00:58:08,640
Speaker 1: why everyone, especially Americans, are so they fear death so

1162
00:58:08,760 --> 00:58:11,919
Speaker 1: much because it's very final and.

1163
00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:14,479
Speaker 2: Well because we've hit it from them. Yeah, yeah, because

1164
00:58:14,480 --> 00:58:16,800
Speaker 2: we've hidden it from But but you know, I think

1165
00:58:16,840 --> 00:58:18,960
Speaker 2: there's I've always thought there are two ways to travel.

1166
00:58:19,520 --> 00:58:21,200
Speaker 2: You can and this is why you go to Tragia.

1167
00:58:21,240 --> 00:58:24,160
Speaker 2: You can go to you can travel to see how

1168
00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:26,240
Speaker 2: much similar the rest of the world is to us,

1169
00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:28,440
Speaker 2: or you can travel to find out how different the

1170
00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:30,640
Speaker 2: world is from the rest of us. I don't care

1171
00:58:30,680 --> 00:58:32,560
Speaker 2: how similar the world is to us. I want to

1172
00:58:32,600 --> 00:58:35,120
Speaker 2: find out how it's different because I want to learn.

1173
00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:36,960
Speaker 2: And that's why I go to places like that. And

1174
00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:39,440
Speaker 2: there are plenty of places like that where things.

1175
00:58:39,280 --> 00:58:43,080
Speaker 1: Are I mean your trips. I'm jealous of your trips. Well, come,

1176
00:58:43,320 --> 00:58:46,760
Speaker 1: I'm I'm considering it. I would like to go like

1177
00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:49,400
Speaker 1: next year if I could for real. I was telling Gabe.

1178
00:58:49,400 --> 00:58:50,840
Speaker 1: I was like, Yo, we got to go on this

1179
00:58:50,920 --> 00:58:51,680
Speaker 1: trip with Paul.

1180
00:58:51,880 --> 00:58:53,920
Speaker 2: Well, Gabe would love this. Gabe would love this.

1181
00:58:54,120 --> 00:58:57,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, he really would. So with your book, your So,

1182
00:58:57,280 --> 00:59:00,400
Speaker 1: your book's coming out soon here, It's coming.

1183
00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:04,080
Speaker 2: Out October first and September sixteenth in the UK. Yeah.

1184
00:59:04,120 --> 00:59:06,920
Speaker 1: So you have a bunch of events and stuff coming up.

1185
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:09,360
Speaker 1: Do you want to tell everybody where they can see you.

1186
00:59:09,360 --> 00:59:11,640
Speaker 1: You're going to do talks and stuff for just signings.

1187
00:59:11,720 --> 00:59:14,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'm doing talks. I'm trying to set up

1188
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:19,080
Speaker 2: a link tree on this. My entire month of October

1189
00:59:19,160 --> 00:59:22,600
Speaker 2: is basically taking up October second, Redlands, California, October third,

1190
00:59:22,640 --> 00:59:28,440
Speaker 2: Los Angeles October fourth, twuson October fifth, Las Vegas October sixth, Phoenix,

1191
00:59:28,520 --> 00:59:31,560
Speaker 2: October seventh, Salt Lake City. Then I get a little

1192
00:59:31,600 --> 00:59:35,280
Speaker 2: bit of a rest spit well, not much at the

1193
00:59:35,400 --> 00:59:39,640
Speaker 2: tenth in New York. The eleventh, I am coming to

1194
00:59:39,680 --> 00:59:44,200
Speaker 2: Philadelphia finally. Then the sixteenth, I'm doing it online with

1195
00:59:44,240 --> 00:59:48,160
Speaker 2: Mark Twainhouse. The seventeenth three No Nevada, the twenty second

1196
00:59:48,200 --> 00:59:51,040
Speaker 2: wid Be England, the twenty third London, and then I

1197
00:59:51,160 --> 00:59:56,760
Speaker 2: come back the twenty sixth at the Huntington Library in Pasadena, California,

1198
00:59:56,800 --> 00:59:59,080
Speaker 2: and the twenty seventh in Pomona, California.

1199
00:59:59,200 --> 01:00:01,880
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for in here. I just I want

1200
01:00:01,880 --> 01:00:04,560
Speaker 1: to mention too that people can pre order your book,

1201
01:00:04,640 --> 01:00:07,920
Speaker 1: and they should because they could go right on Amazon

1202
01:00:07,960 --> 01:00:11,720
Speaker 1: and do it. It's it's real easy right there. Yes, And

1203
01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:14,880
Speaker 1: we'll put the links to all that in our newsletter

1204
01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:17,040
Speaker 1: and on our Instagram and stuff.

1205
01:00:17,800 --> 01:00:18,520
Speaker 2: I appreciate it.

1206
01:00:18,560 --> 01:00:26,840
Speaker 1: Thanks for being here today, Thanks Nicole, Thank you for

1207
01:00:26,960 --> 01:00:30,960
Speaker 1: listening to Mother nos Death. As a reminder, my training

1208
01:00:31,160 --> 01:00:34,919
Speaker 1: is as a pathologists assistant. I have a master's level

1209
01:00:35,080 --> 01:00:39,920
Speaker 1: education and specialize in anatomy and pathology education. I am

1210
01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:42,360
Speaker 1: not a doctor, and I have not diagnosed or treated

1211
01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:46,160
Speaker 1: anyone dead or alive without the assistance of a licensed

1212
01:00:46,240 --> 01:00:51,680
Speaker 1: medical doctor. This show, my website, and social media accounts

1213
01:00:51,720 --> 01:00:54,640
Speaker 1: are designed to educate and inform people based on my

1214
01:00:54,800 --> 01:00:59,480
Speaker 1: experience working in pathology, so they can make healthier decisions

1215
01:00:59,520 --> 01:01:03,760
Speaker 1: regarding their life and well being. Always remember that science

1216
01:01:03,840 --> 01:01:06,520
Speaker 1: is changing every day and the opinions expressed in this

1217
01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:09,680
Speaker 1: episode are based on my knowledge of those subjects at

1218
01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:13,920
Speaker 1: the time of publication. If you are having a medical problem,

1219
01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:18,800
Speaker 1: have a medical question, or having a medical emergency, please

1220
01:01:18,840 --> 01:01:23,120
Speaker 1: contact your physician or visit an urgent care center, emergency room,

1221
01:01:23,360 --> 01:01:27,400
Speaker 1: or hospital. Please rate, review, and subscribe to Mother Knows

1222
01:01:27,480 --> 01:01:32,080
Speaker 1: Death on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or anywhere you get podcasts.

1223
01:01:32,600 --> 01:01:42,800
Speaker 3: Thanks