1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:10,119 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the 2 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at 3 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:17,119 Speaker 1: noon and five pm Eastern on Apple, Cockley and Android 4 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever 5 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube. 6 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 2: Welcome to the Thursday edition. We're live from Washington on 7 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 2: Bloomberg TV and radio on YouTube and your satellite radio 8 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 2: channel one twenty one. With a staggering move here in 9 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 2: crude oil futures, to Charlie's point, up more than eleven 10 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 2: percent now following the president's primetime address last evening that 11 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 2: did not offer a solution to reopening the strait of 12 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 2: horror moves. We're going to be talking a lot about 13 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:49,559 Speaker 2: that coming up with doctor Rebecca Grant, who joins us 14 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:52,920 Speaker 2: from the Lexington Institute, and when we speak with Tyler Kendall. 15 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 2: But it is the Department of Justice that's making headlines 16 00:00:57,200 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 2: right now in a story that's being driven by Fox News. 17 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 2: I want to be careful with what's being reported, but 18 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 2: it does appear that the Attorney General is either out 19 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:07,480 Speaker 2: of or soon will be out of a job. With 20 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:11,080 Speaker 2: Fox News reporting a short time ago that she was 21 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:15,120 Speaker 2: fired by the President yesterday ahead of his speech, and 22 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 2: in fact was on her way back to Florida by 23 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:20,399 Speaker 2: the time the President got behind the podium. Fox News 24 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 2: now reporting that Bondi will soon leave her job as 25 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:26,280 Speaker 2: Attorney General. It's unclear if they mean physically in the 26 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:30,320 Speaker 2: office or whether the paperwork is done yet. Here citing 27 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 2: now an interview with President Trump that Todd blanche, the 28 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:37,920 Speaker 2: deputy Attorney General, this would not be a big surprise. 29 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:43,560 Speaker 2: A former personal attorney of Donald Trump will temporarily replace Bondi. 30 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:45,760 Speaker 2: All of this reporting, by the way, it wasn't just 31 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 2: Fox News that had this report now citing the President 32 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 2: to suggest that it's happening, but there were multiple reports 33 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 2: this morning to say that it was coming, and those 34 00:01:56,840 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 2: reports identified Lee Zelden the Ephie as the eventual replacement 35 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 2: for Bondi. This is all happening as we speak, and 36 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 2: we want to bring you directly to the White House 37 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 2: to get the latest on this and at least what 38 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 2: we do know from Bloomberg Washington correspondent Tyler Kendall. She's 39 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:16,079 Speaker 2: on the North Lawn as we speak right now. Tyler, 40 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 2: what can you tell us about this either firing or 41 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 2: reassignment that a lot of people saw coming. 42 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 3: Well, Joe, at this point, as you outlined, Fox News 43 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 3: now going one step further from previous reports that President 44 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 3: Trump has already dismissed Pam Bondy as the Attorney General. 45 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:36,240 Speaker 3: Not necessarily surprising considering all the speculation that has been 46 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 3: swirling recently, but also the fact that we know that 47 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:41,680 Speaker 3: this White House has been frustrated, in particular when it 48 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 3: comes to the handling and the release of the Epstein files. Plus, 49 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:47,360 Speaker 3: i'd point you to that now infamous post on truth 50 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 3: Social from last September when President Trump appeared to post 51 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 3: a private message to Attorney General Pam Bondi in a 52 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 3: public forum of criticizing her and mounting on the pressure 53 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:00,080 Speaker 3: that he would like to see more progress when it 54 00:02:59,880 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 3: came to prosecuting some of his perceived political enemies, citing 55 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 3: some of them such as California Senator Adam Schiff or 56 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:11,400 Speaker 3: Leticia James as just some of the examples of the 57 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 3: President's frustration with this attorney general. Now, as you mentioned, 58 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 3: Fox News is now reporting that the Deputy ag Todd 59 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 3: Blanche will step into this role temporarily, but there has 60 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:23,640 Speaker 3: also been reporting that President Trump is eyeing he's EPA 61 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:28,520 Speaker 3: administer Administrator Lee Zelden to fill that role on a 62 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 3: more permanent basis. As you well know, Zelden has really 63 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 3: been leading the President's a deregulation push at the EPA, 64 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:38,120 Speaker 3: and we know that the pair had met on Tuesday. 65 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 3: We should, of course say that the White House has 66 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 3: not confirmed this dismissal quite yet. Just yesterday the Attorney 67 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 3: General Pam Bondi did a company President Trump to the 68 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 3: Supreme Court. So it's going to be something that will 69 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:53,840 Speaker 3: watch foreign developments and confirmation from in the coming days. 70 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 2: Well, isn't this moment we're in here, Tyler quite remarkable? 71 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:01,480 Speaker 2: The President telling Fox News is just to make this clear, 72 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 2: and we've got a redhead on the terminal to this 73 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 2: end that she's gone. Attorney General Pam Bondi was ousted. 74 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 2: That is in the past tense. So presumably Todd Blanche 75 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 2: would be the bridge Tyler to an Attorney General Zelden. 76 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:22,039 Speaker 3: Yep, that appears to be what we'd see next. Of course, 77 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:24,360 Speaker 3: we know that whoever is going to be nominated next 78 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:26,719 Speaker 3: to Bag is going to have to go through that 79 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:29,599 Speaker 3: Senate confirmation process, so it would make sense that the 80 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 3: deputy would step in to fill the role here. We 81 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:33,840 Speaker 3: should also just talk about the broader context that at 82 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 3: this point everything is leading up to the midterm elections, 83 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:39,920 Speaker 3: and we know that the White House really wants to 84 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 3: make sure that it is prioritizing its own message when 85 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 3: it comes to the broader American public, but also those 86 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:49,839 Speaker 3: issues that really play with President Trump's base. That's why, 87 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:52,279 Speaker 3: for example, we saw the first cabinet dismissal just a 88 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 3: couple of weeks ago with the DHS secretary after the 89 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:58,359 Speaker 3: President was playing defense on his immigration policies that have 90 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:02,279 Speaker 3: really made up a core of his agenda and his platform. 91 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 3: As we've debate the future of DJESS funding going forward. 92 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:08,360 Speaker 3: Of course, those headlines crossing the terminal over earlier today too. 93 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:11,359 Speaker 2: All right with the lift at the White House, Tyler, 94 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 2: thank you so much, Tyler Kendall on the North Lawn. 95 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 2: That's the latest we have, and we want to assemble 96 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:18,159 Speaker 2: our political panel for their take on this. We have 97 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:21,040 Speaker 2: a great one today in Bloomberg Politics contributor and Republican 98 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:25,120 Speaker 2: strategist Rick Davis, partner at Stone Court Capital, alongside democratic 99 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 2: strategist Matt Bennett from Third Way. Gentlemen, it's great to 100 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 2: have both of you along here. It's really something, Rick. 101 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 2: This reporting began last evening. We should be clear there 102 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 2: were reports from CNN and The New York Times that 103 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 2: this was in the offing, and when these networks went 104 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 2: to the White House for a statement, they got one 105 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 2: from the president quote, Attorney General Pam Bondi is a 106 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:50,240 Speaker 2: wonderful person and she's doing a good job. Unquote. I 107 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 2: guess that's all we needed to hear. 108 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 4: What do you think, Rick, Yeah, Look, I mean it 109 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 4: shouldn't surprise anybody that this president. 110 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 2: It's going to take swift action. 111 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:03,920 Speaker 4: And my own point of view is it was a 112 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:06,840 Speaker 4: very strange time, right before a presidential speech to the 113 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 4: nation to fire your attorney general if there wasn't something 114 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:13,920 Speaker 4: that day that precipitated it. And what he did that 115 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 4: day was attend first time of president's ever attended Supreme 116 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:21,840 Speaker 4: Court hearing on birthright citizenship, an issue that he has 117 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:25,720 Speaker 4: been campaigning on for a very long time with his 118 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:29,480 Speaker 4: Attorney General Pam Bondi, and by all accounts, it didn't 119 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:32,479 Speaker 4: go well. And I wouldn't be surprised to hear someday 120 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:35,600 Speaker 4: after the fact, when people write their books about this administration, 121 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:38,359 Speaker 4: that he got back to White House and he was 122 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:41,919 Speaker 4: furious and he'd had enough, and that could have precipitated 123 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 4: it many other ways to take a look. 124 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:46,800 Speaker 2: At this story, But that's my point of view. Yep, Well, 125 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:49,839 Speaker 2: I think it's really interesting and important, Rick, knowing that 126 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 2: there was already a narrative that Pam Bondi's days were 127 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:58,360 Speaker 2: numbered here Matt, following the way she handled the Epstein files. 128 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 2: We all remember the binders that went to the influencers 129 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 2: out there, to the point where Susie Wiles said Bondi 130 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 2: completely whiffed in her response. We had that very combative 131 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 2: hearing on Capitol Hill in which she showed up with 132 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 2: Oppo research to actually shout down the Democrats in some 133 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 2: cases Republicans who were asking her questions. And then, of 134 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 2: course just the Epstein file situation in general. You had 135 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 2: what happened in Minneapolis, and Matt Bennett, are you surprised 136 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 2: she's still here? 137 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 5: I'm not at all surprised that she's gone. I do 138 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 5: think that I wouldn't want to be lee Zelden if 139 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 5: he gets this job. I don't think there's any way 140 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 5: to succeed at it. I mean, probably the most successful 141 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 5: member of the Trump two point zero cabinet is Marco Rubio. 142 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 5: Of course, he has two jobs. He's set her of 143 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 5: State and the National Security Advisor. And he does it 144 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 5: by not trying to be a mini me of Trump. 145 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 5: He doesn't go before Congress and yell at them. He 146 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 5: doesn't yell about how the Dow is at fifty thousand 147 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 5: in response to questions about Minnesota and the Epstein files. 148 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 5: He is, relatively for this cabinet least a sober guy, 149 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 5: and I think if Zelden gets this job, he'd be 150 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 5: smart to try to do that. The problem, though, is 151 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 5: that Trump is going to expect him to do things 152 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:17,680 Speaker 5: that are not doable. It was impossible to have a 153 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 5: good day at the court yesterday because the fourteenth Amendment 154 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 5: is very very clear that it does confer birthright citizenship. 155 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 5: They were always going to lose. So Zelden's going to 156 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 5: be facing expectations that he cannot meet. 157 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:34,199 Speaker 2: What do you think, Rick, that a lot of people 158 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:36,560 Speaker 2: say Speaker the House the worst job right now in Washington, 159 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:38,079 Speaker 2: it might actually be the Ancertney General. 160 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:43,319 Speaker 4: Yeah, I actually would agree. I think what Matt said 161 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:49,840 Speaker 4: is irrefutable. His pressure on the Justice Department since taking 162 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 4: over the presidency has been intense. And we're used to 163 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:59,680 Speaker 4: the idea of the Justice Department being relatively independent of 164 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 4: the President of the United States and his White House. 165 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 4: Yet here we now have the president's former lawyer now 166 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 4: becoming acting Attorney General. I don't think you could have 167 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:13,440 Speaker 4: a merger and acquisition more suited to this administration than that. 168 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:13,840 Speaker 5: And so. 169 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:18,319 Speaker 4: It's going to be a very rough go for whoever 170 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 4: succeeds at this job. And it's not even going to 171 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 4: be a very easy confirmation because even though there are 172 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 4: plenty of Republicans in the Senate to pass on the 173 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 4: attorney general, there are a lot of unanswered questions in 174 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:35,240 Speaker 4: many other areas. Just ask Senator Tillis about the fight 175 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 4: to try and get the Justice Department to drop the 176 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:44,200 Speaker 4: investigation into the Federal the Fed chairman, I wouldn't be 177 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 4: surprised that he would withhold his vote for a new 178 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 4: Attorney general until that's done. 179 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:54,319 Speaker 2: Interesting, Matt, We're learning more as we go here. It's 180 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:56,319 Speaker 2: supposed to have been quite a phone call that Fox 181 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 2: had with the President. Pam Bondy. We can stay fired, 182 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:03,040 Speaker 2: but she's not lead the administration. And this follows a pattern. 183 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:06,559 Speaker 2: Christin Noman was reassigned to what the Shield of the Americas. 184 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:09,679 Speaker 2: She took Corey Lewandowski, although I guess he's just hanging out. 185 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 2: And of course Mike Waltz, the very first National Security Advisor, 186 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 2: was effectively reassigned, some would even say promoted to un ambassador. 187 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 2: What do you think of the way he's handling these 188 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:22,359 Speaker 2: not firings. 189 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 5: Yeah, for a guy who got famous literally telling people 190 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:29,319 Speaker 5: they were fired, he never fires any, Yes, sir, And 191 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:33,960 Speaker 5: I don't really know why. I mean, what value is 192 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:37,880 Speaker 5: there in it for him? The base can't stand Bondi 193 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:42,480 Speaker 5: because of the Epstein mistakes. Democrats can't stand her. I 194 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 5: don't know who he is pleasing here by keeping her on, 195 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 5: other than maybe he feel some kind of loyalty to her. 196 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 5: But that's not a strong suit for Donald Trump. So 197 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 5: I don't really know what he's doing. It is clear, though, 198 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 5: that he wants his new attorney general to do things 199 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:01,320 Speaker 5: that the new attorney general will be unable to do. 200 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 5: So he may have a stack of former attorney general's 201 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:06,960 Speaker 5: park somewhere at the end of this thing. 202 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 2: What do you make of this rick keeping everybody around. 203 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 2: Is this about not admitting that you were wrong in 204 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:17,359 Speaker 2: hiring them, or he actually feels some sort of loyalty 205 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 2: to this team. I think there is. 206 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:26,679 Speaker 4: An element of loyalty within sort of the Trump super orbit. 207 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:29,400 Speaker 4: But I would say too, the best way to keep 208 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 4: someone from talking to the press and telling stories about 209 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 4: what's really going on inside of an administration is to 210 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 4: keep them on the payroll. And I would not be 211 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 4: surprised that the last thing the president wants, because he's 212 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 4: seen this happen to himself before, is to have folks 213 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:48,719 Speaker 4: who are dispatched from the administration to go out. They 214 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 4: write books, and they get on the television and they're 215 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 4: seen as a former high ranking administration official and they 216 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:59,720 Speaker 4: start to feather bed their own future. That's a lastingness 217 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:02,080 Speaker 4: pre at once right now. And I think this device 218 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:05,320 Speaker 4: doesn't cost him anything. It's tax payer money. Sure, keep 219 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 4: her on board, give her a title. This will make 220 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 4: sure that she doesn't league or tell stories out. 221 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 2: Of school taxpayer money. Matt, there was the story of 222 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:20,800 Speaker 2: retribution that it wasn't happening the way President Trump wanted 223 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:23,640 Speaker 2: it to. We all remember the missive directed to Pam 224 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 2: that was apparently a direct message ended up being posted 225 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:28,959 Speaker 2: on truth Social. What does this mean then, for his 226 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 2: political adversaries, who Pam Bondi was unable to indict or 227 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 2: unable to build a case on beginning with former President 228 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 2: Barack Obama? Should he be worried today? 229 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:42,600 Speaker 5: No, because it's all nonsense. And the reason that Bondie 230 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:45,080 Speaker 5: was unable to succeed wasn't because she didn't want to. 231 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 5: She was totally willing to bring these cases against you know, 232 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 5: Jamcomi and Letitia James and the share of the Federal Reserve. 233 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 5: I mean, but they were all based on nothing. You know, 234 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:03,880 Speaker 5: Bill Polti of the General Housing Administration is ginning up 235 00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:08,199 Speaker 5: all these ridiculous ideas that the Justice Bartman is acting on. 236 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 5: So I really don't think it was for lack of 237 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 5: trying or the lack of skill for that matter. There 238 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 5: just is no way to win a case that is 239 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 5: based on nothing. 240 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:21,319 Speaker 2: We've got a second report now, a gentleman Reuters has 241 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 2: joined the party with breaking news that President Trump has 242 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 2: removed Attorney General Pam Bondi from her post. And if 243 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:29,360 Speaker 2: you're just joining us on Bloomberg TV and Radio, we 244 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 2: do have a big breaker today following the President's address 245 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:34,719 Speaker 2: to the nation last evening. It turns out he had 246 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 2: fired the attorney general, according to Fox's report, before he 247 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 2: actually got to the podium on her way back to Florida. 248 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 2: Now following mounting frustration with her performance, including her handling 249 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:50,320 Speaker 2: of the investigative files related to Yes Jeffrey Epstein, is 250 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:52,960 Speaker 2: Pam Bondi the only US official who will pay the 251 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:55,320 Speaker 2: price for the Epstein files. 252 00:13:56,120 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 4: It's hard to tell how deep the retribution will go 253 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 4: within the Justice Department. I'm sure there are frustrations with 254 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:11,400 Speaker 4: her team. We've seen some already be removed, So you 255 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 4: wonder really how much depth the agency has now it's 256 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 4: really probably amongst all the agencies, the State Department, in 257 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 4: the Justice Department probably have lost more career professionals than 258 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 4: any other agencies in government. So you really have to 259 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 4: start to wonder is there anything left with people there 260 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 4: to do? Because match right, I mean, just because you 261 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 4: get a new set of legs in there as attorney 262 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 4: general doesn't mean they're going to be able to do 263 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:45,440 Speaker 4: anything any better than she was able to accomplish, which 264 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 4: obviously didn't meet the standards that Donald Trump wanted. 265 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 2: You agree with Matt, that confirmation should come pretty easily 266 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 2: for Alis Eldon. Yeah, I don't think so. 267 00:14:57,440 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 4: As I said a minute ago, I don't think people 268 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 4: till us are going to want to go easy until 269 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 4: they get reassurances that these investigations against the FED chairman 270 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:11,280 Speaker 4: are dropped. There will be other people who want other 271 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 4: things that the administration has been withholding from Congress. So 272 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:19,120 Speaker 4: I think you're finding a Congress now who's realized, oh 273 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:22,240 Speaker 4: my god, I've got to run for reelection and I'm 274 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 4: facing one of the starkest political environments that Republicans have 275 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 4: had to grapple with in the modern presidency. 276 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 2: And so I think you're going to. 277 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:36,200 Speaker 4: See a lot of people shaping up to cut deals, 278 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 4: and it'll just depend upon how this administration wants to 279 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 4: back their candidates at how quick they want to get 280 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:46,120 Speaker 4: this done. I mean, under any normal circumstances, this should 281 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 4: be a snap. But we're not dealing with normal circumstances 282 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 4: right now. 283 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:54,480 Speaker 2: Well it's just in thirty seconds, Matt, the DOJ is 284 00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 2: still breaking the law. Will this resume the push to 285 00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 2: release all of the Epstein files. Probably not. 286 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 5: I mean I think that Congress will push a little 287 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 5: bit and maybe Rick is right that at Risk members 288 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 5: will be pushing, but I don't think you're going to 289 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 5: see this increase. I think what By contrast, the reason 290 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 5: Trump is doing this is because he wants somebody to 291 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 5: be even tougher in support of his priorities and releasing 292 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 5: a bunch of stuff about how he's connected to Jeffrey Epstein, not. 293 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 2: Among Representative Garcia saying that Bondi remains legally obligated to 294 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 2: appear for her hearing into all of this on Capitol Hill. 295 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:34,600 Speaker 2: Big thanks to our panel, Rick Davison, Matt Bennett. Breaking 296 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:37,680 Speaker 2: news only here on Bloomberg. Stay with us on Balance 297 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 2: of Power. We'll have much more coming up after this. 298 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power Podcast. Catch 299 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on Apple, 300 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 1: Cockway and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. You 301 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:57,680 Speaker 1: can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship 302 00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 1: New York station Just Say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven thirty. 303 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:06,680 Speaker 2: I'm Joe Matthew in Washington on a breaking news Thursday 304 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 2: in Washington. This day after the President spoke to the 305 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:13,639 Speaker 2: American people about the war in Iran, we learned that 306 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 2: the Attorney General has been fired. That's not the word 307 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:19,680 Speaker 2: he is using, to be clear, but the President on 308 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:22,720 Speaker 2: truth Social referring to Pam Bondi is not only a 309 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:26,480 Speaker 2: great American patriot, but a loyal friend, and says she 310 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 2: will be transitioning to a much needed and important new 311 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 2: job in the private sector to be announced at a 312 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:37,320 Speaker 2: date in the near future. Our Deputy Attorney General, Todd Blanche, 313 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 2: the President calls a very legal, very talented and respected 314 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:44,399 Speaker 2: legal mind, will step in to serve as acting Attorney General. 315 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:47,239 Speaker 2: I'm glad to say that Jeff Mason has jumped in 316 00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:50,320 Speaker 2: to join us here on this breaking news. It's one 317 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 2: that some folks saw coming today, with multiple reports this 318 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 2: morning suggesting that the Attorney General might be out, and Jeff, 319 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:59,359 Speaker 2: it appears that it has happened. This is the third, 320 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 2: if you're keeping score here, member of the cabinet who 321 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:06,240 Speaker 2: has been fired or reassigned, having seen Christinome reassigned to 322 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 2: the Shield of the America's Mike Waltz is now our 323 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:14,119 Speaker 2: ambassador to the UN. Before I ask you why this happened? 324 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:16,879 Speaker 2: Do we know anything about this private sector role? Should 325 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:17,720 Speaker 2: we call this a firing? 326 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 6: I think you can absolutely call it a firing, And 327 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:23,080 Speaker 6: I also don't think that you get transitioned to a 328 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 6: private sector role in the way that you get transitioned 329 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:30,360 Speaker 6: to another governmental role. So it may be that she's 330 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:32,800 Speaker 6: going to some sort of a job where she will 331 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:36,639 Speaker 6: be assisting President Trump from the outside. People leave the 332 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 6: administration to do that, both Republican and Democratic administrations, But 333 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:42,719 Speaker 6: that is not the same as continuing to work for 334 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:45,400 Speaker 6: him or continuing to work rather in the administration. 335 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 2: This has long been simmering with her handling of the 336 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 2: Epstein files the immigration crackdown. Rick Davis pointed out at 337 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:54,639 Speaker 2: the top of the hour, it may as well have 338 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:58,199 Speaker 2: been drawn to this point yesterday because of what the 339 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:01,800 Speaker 2: President witnessed before the Supreme Court, his disappointment over the 340 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 2: way that that case was delivered, not by Pam Bondy, 341 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:08,360 Speaker 2: but she was with him and may have gone back 342 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:09,879 Speaker 2: to the White House to make up his mind at 343 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:11,360 Speaker 2: that point. What do you think about this for. 344 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:13,400 Speaker 6: It's hard to say, Well, it's not hard to say, 345 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:15,679 Speaker 6: but it is some speculation. I think one of the 346 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:18,439 Speaker 6: things that is important to realize about how President Trump 347 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:22,119 Speaker 6: views the Justice Department and his attorney general is he 348 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:24,440 Speaker 6: sees it as an extension of the White House. I 349 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:27,439 Speaker 6: remember him saying during his first term how frustrated he 350 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:32,120 Speaker 6: was that he didn't feel that the age was essentially 351 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:35,119 Speaker 6: working for him. That's because that's a shift from what 352 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:39,479 Speaker 6: virtually every other president that has held the office has 353 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:42,680 Speaker 6: seen the Justice Department. They've seen it as having its 354 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:47,440 Speaker 6: own sort of wall of independence. And that's in fact 355 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 6: something that Joe Biden tried to restore when he was 356 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 6: the president in between Trump's two terms. So all of 357 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:55,879 Speaker 6: that is a long way of saying context, President Trump 358 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:59,119 Speaker 6: sees this as essentially his personal lawyer, and when she 359 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 6: didn't do everything he wanted or didn't get all of 360 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:04,640 Speaker 6: the results that he wanted, because you could argue that 361 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 6: she did do everything he. 362 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 2: Wanted, he got that up. So why not then tap 363 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:13,720 Speaker 2: your personal lawyer, your former personal lawyer, to about the job? 364 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:16,040 Speaker 2: Is going all the way through with this, Todd Blanche, 365 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:19,640 Speaker 2: there's been reporting that Lee's Eldon would be looked at 366 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:22,119 Speaker 2: for the permanent role. Is that what you're hearing? 367 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:26,600 Speaker 6: We've seen some sourcing that has said that. But Todd Blanche, 368 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 6: I would guess is also someone who is certainly at 369 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 6: the top of President Trump's list. We'll have to do 370 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:34,879 Speaker 6: some more reporting to figure out who else he's looking at, 371 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:38,399 Speaker 6: But it wouldn't be out of character for him to 372 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:39,920 Speaker 6: choose either of those two. 373 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:43,639 Speaker 2: The retribution cases that he had called on. Remember Pam, 374 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 2: he called her by her first name in that post 375 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:50,720 Speaker 2: on truth Social that apparently was a direct message wrongfully posted. 376 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 2: Should Barack Obama be on the phone with his lawyer 377 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 2: right now? What happens to these cases that the president 378 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 2: tried to establish against his political enemies, That's a good question. 379 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:05,040 Speaker 6: My suspicion is that any of the cases that he 380 00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 6: wanted to be pursued, that warrant pursued, or that are 381 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:10,840 Speaker 6: still in progress, will be just picked right up by 382 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:14,359 Speaker 6: a new attorney general. He's obviously not looking for someone 383 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 6: to come in and be more independent, to be a 384 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:20,680 Speaker 6: Janet Reno, or to be someone who has some distance 385 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 6: from the White House. I'm referring, of course, to Bill 386 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:27,639 Speaker 6: Clinton's attorney general. So without knowing yet what his final 387 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:30,760 Speaker 6: decision will be, my guess is that he's not looking 388 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:33,879 Speaker 6: for a shift in the direction of independence. He's looking 389 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 6: for a shift in the direction of do even more 390 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:38,120 Speaker 6: of what I say. 391 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 2: You covered the first term, door was swinging a lot 392 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 2: more by now it was now that we have this 393 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:49,880 Speaker 2: third does that foretell other departures because he's handling it differently, 394 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:55,200 Speaker 2: the reassignments a great American, loyal friend. He's keeping everybody close. 395 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:57,600 Speaker 6: Jeff, Yeah, I mean he did not say nice things 396 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 6: about John Kelly on his way out the door. Chief 397 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:02,440 Speaker 6: of Staff Rex Tillerson, Rex Tillerson. 398 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:04,840 Speaker 2: Indeed. So that is absolutely a shift. 399 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:07,480 Speaker 6: But it is also a shift if if it's become, 400 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:09,240 Speaker 6: if it's about to be a trend, and we're not 401 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 6: quite there yet, but it is a shift in his 402 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 6: second term to be firing anyone at all. I mean, 403 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:17,320 Speaker 6: you mentioned Mike Waltson you were right to at the beginning, 404 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 6: but he went from the National Security Advisor to be 405 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:22,119 Speaker 6: an ambassador to the United Nations. 406 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:25,600 Speaker 2: That was a real landing, no doubt promotion. 407 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:30,600 Speaker 6: Yeah, with a Secretary Nome, former Secretary Nome, that wasn't 408 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 6: really a landing set and we're still wondering, we're still 409 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,040 Speaker 6: trying to figure out what that is. It's certainly not 410 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 6: a cabinet level position. And Pam Bondi apparently going to 411 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:41,719 Speaker 6: the private sector. We'll have to find out what that is. 412 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:45,439 Speaker 6: But it is absolutely being jettisoned from your cabinet, and 413 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 6: that counts as being fired. 414 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:48,359 Speaker 2: Isn't an interesting I mean, I guess Christy Nome was 415 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:50,920 Speaker 2: part of the conversation in the early going, but people 416 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:54,960 Speaker 2: had their eyes on Pete hag Sat Yes, Tulci Gabbard, Yes, 417 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:57,640 Speaker 2: Cash Betel yep, all still employed. 418 00:22:57,920 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 6: I would also say continue to keep your eyes on that, 419 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:02,879 Speaker 6: because if President Trump is in a period of frustration, 420 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:05,800 Speaker 6: which he seems like he is, with the war, with 421 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:09,000 Speaker 6: the economy, with the political prospects that are probably facing 422 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:12,480 Speaker 6: him in November, that often leads to him making decisions 423 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:15,480 Speaker 6: like this, not forecasting that that's what's coming next. But 424 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:17,359 Speaker 6: I don't think it's wrong to keep watching some of 425 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:18,879 Speaker 6: the people who looked vulnerable. 426 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:21,440 Speaker 2: We're always fortunate to bump into Jeff Mason when news 427 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:23,840 Speaker 2: breaks around here at Bloomberg. It's great to have you, Jeff, 428 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:25,439 Speaker 2: and thank you so much for jumping in here. On 429 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 2: Balance of Power, we're live in Washington with a big breaker, 430 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:32,320 Speaker 2: a redhead on the terminal, Pam Bondy ousted as Attorney General. 431 00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:33,920 Speaker 2: You can see it at the bottom of your screen 432 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 2: and this story is only about an hour old, something 433 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:39,440 Speaker 2: that follows the President's addressed to the nation that folks 434 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 2: may not have expected today, although as Fox News reports, 435 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,040 Speaker 2: this happened before he ever got on TV last night, 436 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:49,159 Speaker 2: having informed Pam Bondy that her tenure as Attorney General 437 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:52,199 Speaker 2: was up, and they're meeting in the Oval Office before 438 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:54,399 Speaker 2: he got to the podium, and she was reportedly on 439 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:58,640 Speaker 2: her way to Florida before the camera's turned on at 440 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:01,919 Speaker 2: nine pm. We're trying to tap the voices of as 441 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 2: many experts as we can here in the clutch, and 442 00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 2: we look no further than Robert mcwerder to fulfill that mission. 443 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:13,200 Speaker 2: The constitutional lawyer, practicing criminal defense, civil rights lawyer Americopa County, Arizona, 444 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:16,600 Speaker 2: and the founder of the law office of Robert mcwerder. 445 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 2: He's talked us through a lot of cases. I didn't 446 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:20,280 Speaker 2: think we'd be doing this one today. Robert, it's great 447 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:23,920 Speaker 2: to see you. I'm guessing that you probably saw this 448 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:27,159 Speaker 2: as overdue based on our prior conversations. But what does 449 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:29,600 Speaker 2: a DOJ led by Todd Blanche look like? 450 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:34,320 Speaker 7: Well, I think the DOJ by Todd Blanche is just 451 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:36,720 Speaker 7: going to be a more intense version of the DOJ 452 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:40,399 Speaker 7: by Pan Bondi in terms of his professor loyalty to 453 00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 7: Donald Trump. So I don't see a lot of changes. 454 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:48,159 Speaker 7: He was kind of her henchmen to affect all the 455 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,440 Speaker 7: whims of Donald Trump. So I don't see a big 456 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:54,480 Speaker 7: change coming from there, and that's going to actually be unfortunate. 457 00:24:56,119 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 2: Interesting she's being reassigned as the president transitioning to a 458 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:04,960 Speaker 2: job in the private sector. I hope when I get 459 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:08,320 Speaker 2: fired someday people frame it that way. What would a 460 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:11,359 Speaker 2: former attorney general like Pam Bondi be doing? Does she 461 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:15,240 Speaker 2: go back into the legal sector on a private level? Robert, 462 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:15,880 Speaker 2: what do you think? 463 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:18,080 Speaker 7: Well, I think Pam Bondi is going to have a 464 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:21,639 Speaker 7: heck of a hard time because I think she's facing 465 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,719 Speaker 7: bar disciplinary challenges. I don't see how she keeps her 466 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 7: bar license given the things that she did as Attorney general. 467 00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:32,480 Speaker 7: And I'll to name two things. Filing charges against James 468 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:34,680 Speaker 7: call Me without any probable cause when it was clear 469 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:37,399 Speaker 7: from the beginning that no crime occurred. The fact that 470 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:40,440 Speaker 7: she could not get a grand jury to indict it. 471 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 7: I mean, the grand jury will almost indict anybody. And 472 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:45,960 Speaker 7: the fact that she couldn't achieve that because she had 473 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,080 Speaker 7: no case, and it's clear from the outset, and it 474 00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:50,600 Speaker 7: was also clear that she was just doing it because 475 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:55,359 Speaker 7: Donald Trump wanted to attack as perceive political enemies. You know, 476 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 7: lawyers get disbarred for that. We're not supposed to do that. 477 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,440 Speaker 7: We're supposed to make objective decisions under the law with evidence. 478 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 7: So Pam Bondi goes back to Florida. I'm not sure 479 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:07,159 Speaker 7: there's many law firms that are going to want to 480 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:11,200 Speaker 7: hire a lawyer who's facing bar proceedings and likely going 481 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 7: to be disbarred very soon. It could be shown go 482 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:17,480 Speaker 7: to some kind of Republican bank tank, cushy little thing 483 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 7: or whatever. I don't see how getting fired is a 484 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,800 Speaker 7: transition to the private sector when you're working in the 485 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:25,359 Speaker 7: government's that's a firing. 486 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:29,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, it's amazing that. I think, as Matt Bennett 487 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,800 Speaker 2: said earlier, the guy who was known for firing at 488 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:34,960 Speaker 2: the end of every episode of The Apprentice just can't 489 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 2: seem to get that word out. Robert. Then let's go 490 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:39,919 Speaker 2: a little further down that road. What will be of 491 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:43,200 Speaker 2: Pam Bondi's legacy at the Department of Justice. 492 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 7: I think it's going to be one of Ultimately, I 493 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,360 Speaker 7: think it's going to be one that something is ridicule 494 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:53,320 Speaker 7: and I can't really phrase it unto the way. She 495 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:56,760 Speaker 7: was essentially ineffective at doing the job, but she was 496 00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:00,399 Speaker 7: ineffective at understanding the basic foundation of the job. The 497 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:03,159 Speaker 7: Attorney General, like all cabinet members, take an oath to 498 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 7: support the Constitution. They don't take an oath to support 499 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 7: the president. Now they can be fired, of course, by 500 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 7: the president, but there our government officials are not supposed 501 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:18,760 Speaker 7: to be personally loyal to a president of the United States. 502 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:23,200 Speaker 7: They're loyal to the Constitution. That's everything from our generals 503 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:27,440 Speaker 7: and our soldiers to our attorney generals and our EPA director. 504 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 7: All of them take an oath to defend the Constitution, 505 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:32,879 Speaker 7: not to defend a given presidency. And the fact that 506 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,679 Speaker 7: she didn't know that is really problematic. And I'll give 507 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:40,120 Speaker 7: you one example. Early in her tenure, she sent an 508 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:44,560 Speaker 7: Attorney general memo to all attorney general offices. Now, those 509 00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,920 Speaker 7: memos usually define things like how to chase after terrorists 510 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:51,520 Speaker 7: and prosecute and narco traffickers. Her memo was a directive 511 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 7: that no attorneys general's offices should ever use paper straws 512 00:27:55,840 --> 00:28:00,320 Speaker 7: again because Donald trumpet filed in an executive order saying 513 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:03,240 Speaker 7: no paper straws because he doesn't like paper straws in 514 00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:07,840 Speaker 7: one of his twelve diacoch today. To have an attorney 515 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:12,840 Speaker 7: in the United States send a memo about paper straws 516 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,640 Speaker 7: is just absurd and it shows the links at which 517 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:19,280 Speaker 7: she was willing to basically suck up to Donald Trump. 518 00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:22,439 Speaker 2: Well, he says she was a great American patriot and 519 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 2: a loyal friend, and I guess he really means this. 520 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,679 Speaker 2: He says, we love Pam, which is not something you 521 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:30,639 Speaker 2: hear a lot when you get fired. What does this 522 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,919 Speaker 2: mean for twenty twenty if anything, particularly Robert, if we 523 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:38,280 Speaker 2: have an acting attorney general, does that handicap somehow the 524 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:41,800 Speaker 2: attorney general's ability to prosecute these cases? 525 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 7: Well, I think it might mean that some Attorney's general 526 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 7: officers will go back to plastic straws. But leaving that aside, yes, 527 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 7: having an acting Attorney general is difficult because there's certain 528 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:56,520 Speaker 7: statutory functions. There's a time period at which then attorney 529 00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:58,640 Speaker 7: general can only act. An attorney general has to actually 530 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 7: be ratified by the Senate so that the president appoints them. 531 00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 7: So whether Todd Blanche, given his missteps, can get that 532 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 7: is going to be in question, especially with the growing 533 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:15,360 Speaker 7: up popularity of Donald Trump and also the unpopularity among 534 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:19,360 Speaker 7: Senate Republicans who don't fear him as much as they 535 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:21,760 Speaker 7: did because they're not as worried about him putting in 536 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 7: a mega primary against them. So this may be a 537 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 7: bumpy ride for what happens, and the problem for the country, 538 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:34,120 Speaker 7: Joe is, the Attorney General does important things. They prosecute 539 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 7: arcle traffickers, they prosecute people for federal crimes, frauds foisted 540 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 7: upon the American people. It's an important job that needs 541 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:44,640 Speaker 7: to have serious people in it. And the fact that 542 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:48,640 Speaker 7: we don't and haven't had that, We've all had to suffer. 543 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:55,040 Speaker 2: Pretty remarkable times. We're in here, Robert, I love the suspenders. 544 00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:57,440 Speaker 2: I'm delighted you could jump on with us here on 545 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,480 Speaker 2: a balance of power, and we appreciate your insights as always. 546 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:04,960 Speaker 2: That's Robert mcwador the constitutional lawyer, practicing criminal law attorney 547 00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:08,640 Speaker 2: the offices of Robert mcwurterer. Once again, back with us 548 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,800 Speaker 2: on balance of power, Stay with us on balance of power. 549 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:13,680 Speaker 2: We'll have much more coming up after. 550 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 1: This you're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. 551 00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:24,240 Speaker 1: Catch us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern 552 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 1: on Apple Cocklay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. 553 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,880 Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 554 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:35,400 Speaker 1: flagship New York station, Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 555 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,920 Speaker 2: Pam did a tremendous job, the President says, overseeing a 556 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 2: massive crackdown in crime. We love Pam and she will 557 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,720 Speaker 2: be transitioning to a much needed and important new job 558 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,680 Speaker 2: in the private sector, to be announced at a date 559 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:54,800 Speaker 2: in the near future. Absolutely remarkable. Lee Zelden reportedly in 560 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:58,600 Speaker 2: the pipeline here for the job on a permanent basis. 561 00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,240 Speaker 2: But we'll find out to other as we do most 562 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:04,120 Speaker 2: things around here in real time. As much as I 563 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 2: would love to ask Liz Pancotti about all of this, 564 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:09,080 Speaker 2: and I'll bet you that would be quite an interview, 565 00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:11,400 Speaker 2: we wanted to talk about the fact and it's been 566 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 2: one of these days. I haven't said it till now. 567 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,480 Speaker 2: Happy Liberation Day. Remember what we were doing one year ago? 568 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:20,160 Speaker 2: Today we've made it to the anniversary and Liz Pancotti 569 00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:23,760 Speaker 2: is Managing director of Policy and advocacy at the Groundwork Collaborative. 570 00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,480 Speaker 2: Great to have you back. Should I say happy anniversary, 571 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:29,840 Speaker 2: happy liberty? Is it happy? Because it was doom and 572 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 2: gloom and there were wild forecasts about up ending the 573 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 2: international economy? And maybe you'll tell me we did. What 574 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:39,600 Speaker 2: has happened to the global economy in one year of 575 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:40,920 Speaker 2: the president's tariff regime. 576 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:44,080 Speaker 8: Well, we had a lot of tacos, so that for one. 577 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,360 Speaker 8: But I think that if we think about the president's 578 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 8: speech about this time, on the day after April Fool's Day, 579 00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:52,400 Speaker 8: which he made sure to note when he announced all 580 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,320 Speaker 8: these tariffs, you know, he said it would usher in 581 00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:59,360 Speaker 8: a manufacturing renaissance here in the United States, that we 582 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,840 Speaker 8: would build things again in the United States. And in fact, 583 00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:04,640 Speaker 8: if we look at the record over the past year, 584 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:06,760 Speaker 8: what has actually happened is we have lost one hundred 585 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 8: thousand manufacturing jobs. We are losing construction jobs. We are 586 00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:14,440 Speaker 8: in fact building fewer things in this country as a result, 587 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:17,040 Speaker 8: and it is much more expensive to build given that 588 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:20,960 Speaker 8: his tariffs are on building materials, on steel, forgings, to 589 00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:23,840 Speaker 8: manufacture things here in the US. Across the board, it 590 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:28,240 Speaker 8: has really increased prices for consumers and businesses alike. I 591 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 8: think infletion is running anywhere between half a point and 592 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:33,200 Speaker 8: a point higher than it otherwise would be if we 593 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:35,680 Speaker 8: didn't have Trump's tariffs on the books, and it had 594 00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:37,920 Speaker 8: really erased a lot of the progress we had made 595 00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:41,560 Speaker 8: on inflation in twenty twenty four, and unfortunately we are 596 00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:44,080 Speaker 8: seeing the FED try to grapple with that. And now 597 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:46,880 Speaker 8: another twist in the story is you know his war 598 00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:49,040 Speaker 8: on Iran, which is further spiking prices. 599 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:50,880 Speaker 2: Well, that's for sure. I'd like to ask you about 600 00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:53,640 Speaker 2: that in a moment. But you remember what the forecasts were, 601 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:57,440 Speaker 2: and there was a thought that by August, maybe once 602 00:32:57,520 --> 00:32:59,960 Speaker 2: existing goods off the shelves had to be replenished, there 603 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,719 Speaker 2: we would see a massive spike in inflation. And if 604 00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:04,880 Speaker 2: Peter Navarro were sitting here right now, he would tell 605 00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,640 Speaker 2: us that, no, it's a one time change in prices 606 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:10,520 Speaker 2: and inflation. That does not make But are you surprised 607 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:13,240 Speaker 2: that we're not many multiples higher than we are now? 608 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:15,560 Speaker 2: I think it's a good question. 609 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:18,480 Speaker 8: One thing was that those forecasts baked in, you know, 610 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:21,000 Speaker 8: Trump not turning the switch off and on and off 611 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:21,760 Speaker 8: and on and off and on. 612 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,000 Speaker 2: As we saw from more the Supreme Court ruling, So 613 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:27,600 Speaker 2: did the scouts save us from ourselves? I think it was. 614 00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:30,040 Speaker 8: Really one of those things where had Trump kept in 615 00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:32,720 Speaker 8: place the tariffs he announced three hundred and sixty five 616 00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:35,280 Speaker 8: days ago, we would be in a very different situation. 617 00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:37,720 Speaker 8: He ended up a couple days later turning many of 618 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:41,200 Speaker 8: those off, and you saw him negotiate quote unquote trade 619 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:43,760 Speaker 8: deals over the course of the past year. Many of 620 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:47,040 Speaker 8: those didn't actually go into effect, and obviously, given his 621 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:50,880 Speaker 8: now across the board ten percent tariffs, we are looking 622 00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,440 Speaker 8: at a different situation. I think what changed was that 623 00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:57,480 Speaker 8: Trump ultimately didn't go through with it. There were lots 624 00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:01,800 Speaker 8: of sectoral exemptions, there were country specific exemptions. He changed 625 00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:06,400 Speaker 8: Chinese tariffs many many times over, and the bulk of that, 626 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:09,839 Speaker 8: I think, as companies were able to increase their inventories 627 00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:12,160 Speaker 8: by quite a lot leading up to a liberation Day, 628 00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:14,759 Speaker 8: and in that short window where things were getting adjusted 629 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:18,320 Speaker 8: between April and July during his pause, we were able 630 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:20,640 Speaker 8: to keep things on the shelf that were a lot 631 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,319 Speaker 8: less tariff than they would have otherwise been. Of course, 632 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:25,920 Speaker 8: the Supreme Court stepped in last month, and now we're 633 00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:27,800 Speaker 8: at the end of February, and now we find ourselves 634 00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:31,120 Speaker 8: in this kind of new order of this global tariff 635 00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:33,600 Speaker 8: for the next four and a half months or so. 636 00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:37,920 Speaker 8: Right now, I think the bigger pressure facing the inflation 637 00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:40,400 Speaker 8: picture is the war in Iran, which you know, the 638 00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:42,920 Speaker 8: President's remarks last night I don't think instilled a lot 639 00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:45,279 Speaker 8: of confidence in markets or in consumers that will be 640 00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:47,839 Speaker 8: out of the war anytime soon. 641 00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:51,160 Speaker 2: We're seeing the market unfold right before our eyes here, 642 00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:54,040 Speaker 2: and you know, it's amazing. We couldn't have imagined in 643 00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:55,960 Speaker 2: the Rose Garden. It wasn't the Rose Garden Club, I 644 00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:58,120 Speaker 2: think at that point yet a year ago, that we 645 00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:00,719 Speaker 2: would be in a war with Iran on the anniversary 646 00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:03,360 Speaker 2: of Liberation Day. You've got crude oil up over eleven 647 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:05,319 Speaker 2: percent in New York today, we're back to what one 648 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:08,080 Speaker 2: hundred and eleven I think it was. Let me be 649 00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:10,520 Speaker 2: sure here before I say that dollars a barrel, Yeah, 650 00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:12,040 Speaker 2: one hundred and twelve almost. 651 00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:14,280 Speaker 8: I saw dated crude hit one forty today. 652 00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:18,319 Speaker 2: That wasn't that something? As that month turns over, pretty remarkable. 653 00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:22,399 Speaker 2: This could go on for weeks, maybe even months more. 654 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:25,360 Speaker 2: The President said last evening, the Strait will open naturally, 655 00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:27,200 Speaker 2: which makes us think that there will not be an 656 00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:30,760 Speaker 2: operation to force its reopening. What will be the longer 657 00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:33,839 Speaker 2: term corrosive effect of all of this, it's not good. 658 00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:36,160 Speaker 8: I mean. Kevin Hassett, as you heard a couple of 659 00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:38,280 Speaker 8: weeks ago, said he's got a flow chart he's working 660 00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:41,480 Speaker 8: through the President's remarked last night. Suggest to me, we 661 00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:43,120 Speaker 8: have worked our way through the flow chart and we 662 00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:45,680 Speaker 8: are now at I don't know, find out and see 663 00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:48,600 Speaker 8: what happens. Yeah, uncharted territory here. As we navigate the 664 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:52,600 Speaker 8: strait of harm moves. As we look at global shortages 665 00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,120 Speaker 8: and helium, we are looking at a chip shortage that 666 00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:58,160 Speaker 8: could rival that of the twenty twenty two period. As 667 00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:01,080 Speaker 8: we look at global fertilizer shortage that will be orders 668 00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:05,239 Speaker 8: of magnitude greater than the onset of Russia's war on Ukraine. 669 00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:08,440 Speaker 8: As we look at jet fuel shortages in Europe, they 670 00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:12,839 Speaker 8: are already canceling flights, Heathrow will be hammered, and even 671 00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:15,400 Speaker 8: in the US and Canada, Amazon announced just this morning 672 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:17,640 Speaker 8: that they will be enacting a surch charge on all 673 00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:21,759 Speaker 8: shippers that move things through North America. And so I think, 674 00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:25,479 Speaker 8: as this all unfolds. Unfortunately for American consumers who thought 675 00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:27,600 Speaker 8: they might be in the clear after the Supreme Court 676 00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:30,680 Speaker 8: provided relief from those IEPA tariffs. This is an even 677 00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:32,080 Speaker 8: bigger wave of inflection coming. 678 00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:35,520 Speaker 2: You know, airlines are kind of the obvious first victims 679 00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:37,920 Speaker 2: here when it comes to the doubling in jet fuel prices. 680 00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:41,359 Speaker 2: But next earning season, the next upcoming earning season, we're 681 00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:43,600 Speaker 2: going to start hearing in these conference calls about fuel 682 00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:47,400 Speaker 2: surch charges in all different industries. Right if this continues 683 00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:48,560 Speaker 2: in this direction. 684 00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:50,680 Speaker 8: I think it's already going to getting where diesel prices are. 685 00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:53,759 Speaker 8: I mean, shipping and logistic inflation has really never come 686 00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:57,120 Speaker 8: under management. Over the last year or two. Those costs 687 00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:00,279 Speaker 8: are up tremendously post pandemic. We really didn't get a 688 00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:03,399 Speaker 8: hold on them. And with diesel prices up at five 689 00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:06,280 Speaker 8: six seven dollars here, in the next few months, stuff's 690 00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:07,400 Speaker 8: going to get really expensive. 691 00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:09,520 Speaker 2: We've got a minute left. This is getting more depressing 692 00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:12,080 Speaker 2: as we go, so it's almost over. Liz Pancotti, when's 693 00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:12,719 Speaker 2: the recession? 694 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:15,800 Speaker 8: You know, I saw folks really tick up their estimates 695 00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:19,120 Speaker 8: over the past week. Goldman's at thirty forty. I don't 696 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:21,480 Speaker 8: think that if you watched that speech last night that 697 00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:23,800 Speaker 8: I did, I don't know how on on the street. 698 00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:26,080 Speaker 8: I don't know how you walk away and say the 699 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:27,880 Speaker 8: rest of the years in the bag and we'll be okay, 700 00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:29,960 Speaker 8: we'll be able to weather the storm. The market's got 701 00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:32,359 Speaker 8: it priced in. I think if we're in this war 702 00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:34,759 Speaker 8: here in July August, we've got three more months of this. 703 00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:38,040 Speaker 8: We're really looking at long term damaging economic effects. 704 00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:40,520 Speaker 2: Three more months of this, says Liz Pancotti. I'll tell 705 00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:43,080 Speaker 2: you it's not great to think about, but it's always 706 00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:44,799 Speaker 2: a pleasure to talk it out with somebody who knows 707 00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:47,560 Speaker 2: what they're talking about. Groundwork Collaborative Liz Pancotti, thank you 708 00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:51,560 Speaker 2: so much. Happy Liberation Day. Oil is up and Pam 709 00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:54,560 Speaker 2: Bondi is out breaking news today. It's been a heck 710 00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:56,120 Speaker 2: of a couple of hours, and I'll meet you back 711 00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:58,560 Speaker 2: here on the late edition of Balance of Power with 712 00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:00,800 Speaker 2: the latest from the White House on the future of 713 00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:08,000 Speaker 2: the Department of Justice and yes, the oil markets. Thanks 714 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:11,120 Speaker 2: for listening to the Balance of Power podcast. Make sure 715 00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:14,040 Speaker 2: to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, or 716 00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:16,799 Speaker 2: wherever you get your podcasts, and you can find us 717 00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:20,880 Speaker 2: live every weekday from Washington, DC, at Noontimeeastern at bloomberg 718 00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:21,680 Speaker 2: dot com.