Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways. I don't know. You never know what story
Speaker 1: is of things we simply don't know the answer to. Hey, guys,
Speaker 1: welcome to another episode of Thinking Sideways, the podcast that
Speaker 1: solves unsolvable mysteries. That's right, that doesn't work if they're unsolvable,
Speaker 1: we solve them anyways. Yep, this week. Oh I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I'm Devin. In case you haven't met us before, I'm
Speaker 1: Devin joined I'm Steve, and we're going to talk about
Speaker 1: a mystery. It was a listener suggestion from Bill on Facebook.
Speaker 1: Thanks Bill, And we're going to call this one. What's
Speaker 1: the frequency? Kenneth? That's an okay name for it, right,
Speaker 1: I would say that's appropriate name for it? Yea, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: On October four, six, Dan there was walking home in
Speaker 1: New York City when a man ran up behind him
Speaker 1: and punched him in the back of the head, which
Speaker 1: knocked him to the ground. Ground not for and uh
Speaker 1: started beating him a little bit, and he the man
Speaker 1: who attacked him, demanded, what's the frequency Kenneth or Kenneth,
Speaker 1: what's the frequency? Reports differ? Yeah. As rather ran apparently
Speaker 1: a second man ran after him and continued to try
Speaker 1: and attack him. Rather ran into a hotel or apartment
Speaker 1: lobby apartment building lobby, uh, and I guess felt to
Speaker 1: the ground and was kicked a number of times before
Speaker 1: an employee of the apartment complex was able to kind
Speaker 1: of break the fight up, and the man ran away
Speaker 1: and wasn't caught. But both men continued to demand throughout
Speaker 1: the entire beating what they wanted to know what the
Speaker 1: frequency was from Dan Rather? Hm? Weird? Right? Yeah, I
Speaker 1: did say. That's a very weird thing to continually yell. Asked, Yeah,
Speaker 1: but you know, actually, if you want an excuse to
Speaker 1: continue the beating, asked if you do want to be
Speaker 1: asking an unanswerable question, Yeah, you kind of do. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to beat the thing out of you.
Speaker 1: If you would just tell me the answer, I'm glad
Speaker 1: they stopped. Yeah. I can't imagine that people don't know
Speaker 1: who Dan Rather is, but I guess we do have
Speaker 1: a number of international listeners. So let's talk about Dan
Speaker 1: Rather for a minute. Yeah cool. Dan Rather was born
Speaker 1: in ninety one and led a pretty uninteresting life until
Speaker 1: breaking into the broadcast journalism world kind of early September
Speaker 1: nineteen six one, when he did some unconventional reporting on
Speaker 1: Hurricane Carla. He was the first reporter to ever use
Speaker 1: weather scanners on TV to explain to people where weather
Speaker 1: patterns are. Yeah, weather, Yeah, they didn't exist. They didn't
Speaker 1: have the technology to have that on screen. So he
Speaker 1: actually went to what or service station and had the
Speaker 1: camera trained on that to track where Hurricane Carlo was going.
Speaker 1: Granted he was he had been a television journalist for
Speaker 1: a number of years prior to that, but that was
Speaker 1: kind of his first big claims fame. I don't remember
Speaker 1: when it was, but I know. The other notable thing
Speaker 1: he did is he was one of the reporters that
Speaker 1: was embedded in Vietnam. Yeah, he was a he was
Speaker 1: a war correspondent. And actually that was after he had
Speaker 1: kind of had this rise to fame. He moved to
Speaker 1: New York City in nineteen sixty two and started a
Speaker 1: trial period at CBS, and apparently he didn't fit in
Speaker 1: very well. But he did end up covering the crash
Speaker 1: of American Airlines Flight one, which was a notable crash
Speaker 1: with a number of notable people on board that died,
Speaker 1: and it's a bit of an unsolved mystery, but we'll
Speaker 1: talk about that later one, because I'm not prepared for
Speaker 1: that one. No, no, no, no, that's a mystery for
Speaker 1: a different time. He also reported on the JFK assassination,
Speaker 1: which is another huge unsolved mystery for another time. Until
Speaker 1: we tackle it. Until we tackle it, we'll solve it.
Speaker 1: Don't worry, guys, because it's not actually unsolvable. It's not.
Speaker 1: We will solve it. Yeah. Yeah, Dan Rather was assigned
Speaker 1: to be a White House correspondent for CBS, and then
Speaker 1: he went onto assignment in viet to Vietnam War. And
Speaker 1: then he came back and he was assigned the anchor
Speaker 1: position for CBS Evening News, which is CBS is nightly
Speaker 1: news segment. And he also he also did segments on
Speaker 1: sixty Minutes also, yeah he did, and he you know,
Speaker 1: he was the anchor um on CBS Evening News for
Speaker 1: twenty four years. Yeah. Yeah, he was there forever so
Speaker 1: and then and of course it was from his position
Speaker 1: at sixty Minutes of his career kind of came to
Speaker 1: a closer the end about ten years ago. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: want to talk about that. We will, because it comes
Speaker 1: up in the theory. Oh yeah, that's right. I forgot.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. We have some interesting theories. I I sprung
Speaker 1: something at the last minute on Devon. Yeah, I forgot.
Speaker 1: I totally forgot that. I had that written at the
Speaker 1: end of my script. Now, anyways, in six this beating
Speaker 1: happened and nobody really knew why. Rather was quoted as
Speaker 1: saying I was mugged. He's kind of this very matter
Speaker 1: of fact statement. He says, it was mugged. I don't
Speaker 1: know why it happened. I wish I did, but I
Speaker 1: don't know. Classic mugging except they didn't. Yeah, well that
Speaker 1: was exactly it is. None of the reports have any
Speaker 1: kind of missing items of any kind. It seems like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I think he was. It was maybe his
Speaker 1: egos at bruised. Yeah. A few years later, Dan Rather
Speaker 1: did identify the man who had been beating him. It
Speaker 1: gets it gets at a little weird in here for me,
Speaker 1: because in all of the reports I've read, there were
Speaker 1: two men. These are the reports from the year it happened.
Speaker 1: From the year it happened, there were two men. And
Speaker 1: then a couple of years later, this other man that
Speaker 1: I'm about to talk about was arrested it and Dan
Speaker 1: Rather said, oh, yeah, that was the that was the
Speaker 1: one guy who was beating me. There's no mention of, oh,
Speaker 1: but there was a second guy who started it or
Speaker 1: anything like that. It's just, yeah, that was the guy.
Speaker 1: Some reports I've heard it was just one guy beating
Speaker 1: him and then the other guys just kind of stood by. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but there were two men involved, and you know, anyways,
Speaker 1: it gets He definitely disappears from the lore, which I'm
Speaker 1: sure we'll talk about a little bit in a minute too.
Speaker 1: But this man's name was William Tagger, and that was
Speaker 1: when he was identified to Yes, and you may be
Speaker 1: familiar with that name if you're a weirdo about murders
Speaker 1: or anything. I don't know, some of our listeners might
Speaker 1: be into that sort of stuff. They're just interested in
Speaker 1: random explained murders may well, except yeah, unprovoked this is
Speaker 1: a better word, because this this murder was actually explained
Speaker 1: and stupid. Yeah. In n Tagger attempted to enter the
Speaker 1: set of the Today Show with a gun. He had
Speaker 1: like a rifle strapped to his back and he tried
Speaker 1: to enter and the security guards said no. So he
Speaker 1: got in his car and drove away and then came
Speaker 1: back with the rifle and tried to gain insurance again
Speaker 1: when one of the men who was on the crew
Speaker 1: of the Today Show named Campbell their own Montgomery, which
Speaker 1: is the USA version of a Game of Thrones name
Speaker 1: really what it is? I don't watch the show or
Speaker 1: read books. You guys are the worst. Anyways, Tagger shot
Speaker 1: Campbell in the back in the back a few times
Speaker 1: as he was running away and trying to alert the police,
Speaker 1: and uh, Campbell died and Tiger was arrested. Tigger was
Speaker 1: convicted and sentenced. He was denied parole when he first
Speaker 1: came up for it in two thousand and seven, but
Speaker 1: he was released in two thousand and I think he
Speaker 1: lives in New York and Dan rather hasn't been seeing
Speaker 1: since that's not true, are you tell me, Devin? We
Speaker 1: can save it if if it comes up later. But
Speaker 1: did you want to go into his motivations for that
Speaker 1: or had you intended to? Yeah, we're gonna talk a
Speaker 1: little bit about that in then, okay, because there's there's
Speaker 1: some very strange WTF moments in his accounts of why
Speaker 1: he did that. So I just want to make sure yeah,
Speaker 1: by by no, in no uncertain terms, Tagger was a
Speaker 1: crazy person. He still is, just check it, but perhaps
Speaker 1: a person from another or maybe something else is going on.
Speaker 1: But even that you kind of can say he's crazy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so that I know, we usually talked for like an
Speaker 1: hour about what happened and then briefly talk about theories.
Speaker 1: But happened, So we're going to talk about theories. Wait
Speaker 1: are you? Are you warning our listeners it's going to
Speaker 1: be a short show. Well, I don't think it's going
Speaker 1: to be sure, it'll be shorter than last week. Let's talk, Okay, opposite,
Speaker 1: it's all talk, like Steve, let's all talk. So one
Speaker 1: thing I wanted to mention is that Rather found out
Speaker 1: about it through Tigger's psychiatrist. Correct, because he was he
Speaker 1: was forced to see a psychiatrist after the murder, after
Speaker 1: the murder and then and then that's when Tigger told
Speaker 1: his psychiatrist said he was the one who who had
Speaker 1: beaten up Dan Rather. Yeah, so, and so that that
Speaker 1: is how he found out the set from the psychiatrist.
Speaker 1: I have heard that, Yeah, I do. I do want
Speaker 1: to raise a red flag on that though, because I
Speaker 1: know that there's a limit to patient client confidentiality, and
Speaker 1: I know that like if you're going to do harm
Speaker 1: or you've done a heinous crime that doesn't apply. Beaten
Speaker 1: the crap out of a news anchor doesn't seem to
Speaker 1: qualify for violating that brilliant Yeah, well, but it's also
Speaker 1: way outside of the statute of limitation. Well, I think
Speaker 1: that we can kind of go into this now. Uh
Speaker 1: we as a community group team Sideways found the transcripts
Speaker 1: from the parole hearings her Tagger and uh Dan Rather
Speaker 1: isn't mentioned any at all in there. And one would
Speaker 1: think if if they had decided or he hadn't admitted
Speaker 1: to that attack, that would come up, because it was
Speaker 1: a pretty brutal attack. Yeah, but he didn't. He didn't
Speaker 1: confess it to the police. He did not, so that
Speaker 1: that's kind of I I agree with Steve. I have
Speaker 1: some questions about whether or not he ever admitted that
Speaker 1: he did this, or if it was just a psychiatrist
Speaker 1: trying to get a bump in his popularity for some
Speaker 1: reason or whatever it may be. Yeah, but but when
Speaker 1: he went Rather it was shown a picture of Tagger.
Speaker 1: He's identified him as being the did it and when Yeah,
Speaker 1: but what was it was he showing the photo? I'm
Speaker 1: not sure, but it would have been at the earliest nine. Okay,
Speaker 1: that's that's eight to ten years later. I got a question,
Speaker 1: have you and you've seen pictures of Tagger, right? I
Speaker 1: mean he's not the most uniquely he's kind of an
Speaker 1: odd looking guy, but he's not super unique. No, So
Speaker 1: that's why I question how Rather so instantly said, that's
Speaker 1: the guy. But also it's not documented what under what
Speaker 1: process he was shown the picture was, if it was
Speaker 1: in a lineup under kind of police supervision or professional supervision,
Speaker 1: or if the psychiatrist or psychologist was saying, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: this guy said he beat you up, and Dan Rather
Speaker 1: looked it and said bad. It kind of looks like him.
Speaker 1: Probably was him, you know, we don't know. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: exactly thank you that. I think that that's an important
Speaker 1: thing to keep in mind as well. So with that
Speaker 1: short and introduction to this show, now we're really going
Speaker 1: to the theories. We're really going to theory. Alright. The
Speaker 1: first theory ends with a sentence, I swear to god,
Speaker 1: Joe did not come up with this theory, but he
Speaker 1: very easily could have. So let's get into that. As
Speaker 1: we mentioned, Dan Rather was assaulted kind of outside of
Speaker 1: and then in the entry way of an apartment building, um,
Speaker 1: and that somebody who worked there did kind of step
Speaker 1: in and stopped behind. Yeah. And you know, most people
Speaker 1: kind of think that this was just a case of
Speaker 1: mistaken identity, that somebody, the people who started beating Dan
Speaker 1: Rather up thought that he was somebody he wasn't, which
Speaker 1: is fair. It's possible it was kind of in the
Speaker 1: middle of his meteoric rise to fame. But I guess
Speaker 1: if you don't watch the news, people get beat up
Speaker 1: for all kinds of reasons and get into trouble for
Speaker 1: mistaken identities all the time. Yeah. The other thing that
Speaker 1: this theory relies heavily on is that Dan Rather was
Speaker 1: he was hit in the head and he was being
Speaker 1: beaten up, and that it's totally possible that he misunderstood
Speaker 1: what the men were yelling at him or misremembered. Absolutely.
Speaker 1: According to this theory, the people who the two men
Speaker 1: that were beating Dan Rather up were fairly well dressed.
Speaker 1: I don't know what that means. I've never I don't
Speaker 1: know if you guys found in the original research versus
Speaker 1: this theory, And he mentioned of the style of clothing
Speaker 1: that these people were wearing, that they were well dressed.
Speaker 1: But that was all I heard. I don't know why.
Speaker 1: I never means never ever recall seeing that. Now, apparently
Speaker 1: the neighborhood that Dan Rather was in was one of
Speaker 1: the gay or neighborhoods of Manhattan or areas of Manhattan. No,
Speaker 1: I'm not, actually, but I am saying that apparently this
Speaker 1: was kind of one of those areas at that time.
Speaker 1: I don't know, it may or may not have been.
Speaker 1: According to this theory, it really was. Yeah, the quote
Speaker 1: unquote research around this particular one call in a question. Yeah, Jos,
Speaker 1: after we've talked about that, I think it might be
Speaker 1: economy to Yeah, And apparently, reportedly Dan Rather being you know,
Speaker 1: off duty for the day, he was wearing jeans and
Speaker 1: a striped polo and aviator sunglasses. And yeah, because it's
Speaker 1: Dan Rather, so probably he's a news anchor, comes of
Speaker 1: course would always be his best Yeah. Of course, where
Speaker 1: does Penny Loafer's. Yeah, Anyways, these two men mistook Dan
Speaker 1: Rather for a man that one of the men's boyfriends
Speaker 1: was cheating on him with. Maybe he really was. Maybe
Speaker 1: they mistook Dan Rather for having snuck out of the
Speaker 1: boyfriend's apartment so he lived in that apartment building building
Speaker 1: right there and the boyfriend would have lived there. They
Speaker 1: beat him in the head, hit him in the head,
Speaker 1: and Dan Rather ran towards the apartment building again, which
Speaker 1: just further enraged these men and they started kicking him,
Speaker 1: and Dan Rather reportedly said you got the wrong guy,
Speaker 1: which of course made them think even more that he
Speaker 1: was the lover. And so what were they saying to him?
Speaker 1: Reportedly they were saying, what is this freak seeing Kenneth?
Speaker 1: Which also doesn't make a whole lot of I mean,
Speaker 1: what weird, It's stupid, it's so shoehorned, I feel, you know,
Speaker 1: It's definitely one of those kind of oh yeah, this
Speaker 1: person is going to call this person a freak, Like, well,
Speaker 1: what do you You're like beating this man up for
Speaker 1: being gay with your boyfriend syndrome? Yeah, but all like
Speaker 1: what an odd choice of words of what is this
Speaker 1: freak seeing Kenneth? Like what probably not what I would
Speaker 1: say in that situation, not what I would say. Okay,
Speaker 1: so I'm going to do this a number of times
Speaker 1: with this phrase, is trying to figure out because Rather
Speaker 1: got hit in head a number of times, so is
Speaker 1: Marbles might have been bouncing around yeah, and I think, yes,
Speaker 1: saying what is this freak seeing Kenneth? You know that
Speaker 1: it could have been put into frequency Kenneth. You know,
Speaker 1: since Dan rather was in broadcasting, frequency would have been
Speaker 1: more in his vocabulary than That's not where it's going.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to figure out what the frequency Kenneth could
Speaker 1: be translated from if you're if you get got hit
Speaker 1: and a head a couple of times. But that's what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, is that it could have been translated from
Speaker 1: what is this freak seeing Kenneth? And it could have
Speaker 1: been are you there's an F word that you can
Speaker 1: insert yourself, Kenneth. So if somebody says that, if you
Speaker 1: say that rapidly, it could to somebody who's you know,
Speaker 1: ears are ringing from being knocked about the head could
Speaker 1: kind of sound like that. And again I know it's
Speaker 1: not a perfect fit. I understand this. Yeah, I usually
Speaker 1: with this story. Yeah, I usually think that, like the
Speaker 1: first and the last words are probably pretty close to
Speaker 1: so what are you Fford Kenneth, Yeah, or something like that,
Speaker 1: something like that. Yeah, Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't know either. It's how many times did they say
Speaker 1: this phrase? And I don't know. I don't know if
Speaker 1: anybody knows. It's always always called that is just repeatedly,
Speaker 1: so repeatedly. Could have been two times or ken times.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's more than two, but I don't
Speaker 1: think Dan Rather was able to like say, oh, I
Speaker 1: was counting while they were beating me. You know. Anyways,
Speaker 1: I think the reason that this theory sounds exactly like
Speaker 1: Joe is because it ends with and I'll quote here,
Speaker 1: I'm sure that if the police check the list of
Speaker 1: tenants in the building, they will find a man named Kenneth.
Speaker 1: Questioning him should lead to the sailants, and this case
Speaker 1: will have been resolved. Yeah, right, that all they have
Speaker 1: to do is do this one thing and then they'll
Speaker 1: solve the case. It's so easy, Kenneth yet, Yeah, all
Speaker 1: you have to do is find obviously there was a
Speaker 1: Kenneth that lived there, and obviously he was gay, and
Speaker 1: obviously he was cheating on his boyfriend, and obviously the
Speaker 1: boyfriend just beat the crap out of Dan Rather while yelling.
Speaker 1: But this freak scene Kenneth. Obviously that is the easiest
Speaker 1: answer to this. Of course, Yeah, solved, there we go,
Speaker 1: all right, Well, so funder email address. Oh no, well
Speaker 1: you devn know that I found a theory that was
Speaker 1: obscenely similar, super similar. Yeah, and thankfully we have some
Speaker 1: folks out there who could help us with this because
Speaker 1: I'm probably in a butcher some pronunciation. Even though you
Speaker 1: asked for help, I asked for help, but nobody was
Speaker 1: quite sure if what they were giving me was right.
Speaker 1: But there's an other theory that goes that rather was
Speaker 1: assaulted by one or two Jewish men for reasons unknown.
Speaker 1: And it's New York. There's a sizeable Jewish community in
Speaker 1: that city, so he may have made somebody angry and
Speaker 1: or it could have been a mistake and identity absolutely,
Speaker 1: you know, they they didn't like him, or they thought
Speaker 1: that he was somebody else that was a problem. But
Speaker 1: the reading that I found on this, they say that
Speaker 1: it wasn't Kenneth that was being yelled, but instead it
Speaker 1: was it was it's a Yiddish word. So again this
Speaker 1: is why I'm not sure I'm going to do this right.
Speaker 1: But it's gone if, which is Yiddish for thief or
Speaker 1: a dishonest person, basically a liar. I then started I,
Speaker 1: like I talked about earlier, with the whole puss word
Speaker 1: substitution because I love word jumbles. Is trying to figure
Speaker 1: out other Yiddish words that might sound like some of
Speaker 1: the phrasing that was used. So I was looking for
Speaker 1: I can't put the sentence together. I don't know Yiddish,
Speaker 1: but words it would maybe sound like frequency if you're
Speaker 1: yelling and you're beating up somebody and you're calling him
Speaker 1: a thief. I found a couple that might kind of work.
Speaker 1: And again I might be butchering this, but this is
Speaker 1: Yiddish or princess as in I think it's princess as
Speaker 1: in a bit of a putdown, but it's print zeth.
Speaker 1: It's p r I E t z t h, so
Speaker 1: my pronunciation is probably totally off on that. Or the
Speaker 1: other one is pro stalk, which is an ignorant, bore
Speaker 1: or a vulgar man. So I could see these words.
Speaker 1: If this this other theory that I had, where he's
Speaker 1: being attacked by a couple of Jews who were angry
Speaker 1: at him for I don't know what reason, then it
Speaker 1: could be that they were Everything that was yelled at
Speaker 1: him was held in Yiddish, so we had no idea
Speaker 1: what it was. So he put it together as best
Speaker 1: he could in English, and please don't rely on my
Speaker 1: terrible pronunciation, but it could completely be that. I mean,
Speaker 1: it could also the theory. It could also be a
Speaker 1: mix of English. You know, it could have been um,
Speaker 1: where is it? Or what is it? Or something like
Speaker 1: that and thief or what you know, not what did
Speaker 1: you take? But you know, I mean, it could be
Speaker 1: that a mix of accusations in English and Yiddish also,
Speaker 1: And maybe maybe it wasn't even a case of a
Speaker 1: stake in identity. Maybe they recognized him and he had
Speaker 1: said something or another who upset them on the news,
Speaker 1: So they also totally possible. Yeah, they you know that
Speaker 1: he's a goyam. They don't like goyam, and he's made
Speaker 1: them angry, so we're going to take it out on you.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure that Jews don't like going on. Well,
Speaker 1: but if he's, if he has made them angry, well, okay,
Speaker 1: you're not of the faith. What the heck we can
Speaker 1: justify beating the crap out of this guy. I don't know,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm this is that's the theory, and
Speaker 1: that's kind of the short road that I ran down.
Speaker 1: I linguistics is not my area, so I tryd of
Speaker 1: stopped short. Yeah, it's always possible. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: that's it brings up another good point. It could have
Speaker 1: been a different language, that it could have been anything.
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's hard to tell. The next theory
Speaker 1: is fun. I like this theory, and actually this is
Speaker 1: the theory that was brought to our attention with the story. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this is the number one copy paste theory on the Internet.
Speaker 1: And since it's copy paste, we're going to copy paste
Speaker 1: it too, because there's really I think the telling of
Speaker 1: it is pretty good, and I'm it's literally copy pit.
Speaker 1: Everywhere I've ever seen it is literally copy paste. I
Speaker 1: copy pasted it into the script. I think that this
Speaker 1: is the best telling of it. We're not going to,
Speaker 1: like just read it word for word, though I think
Speaker 1: we may have to do. I actually we're going to
Speaker 1: read portions of it to give it its full due.
Speaker 1: We've got to read some of this because it plays
Speaker 1: into a bunch of pop culture references, because it's been
Speaker 1: around long enough. Are you guys ready, let's do this
Speaker 1: all right. On the evening of October four, stan Rather
Speaker 1: was attacked by William Tagger, who contrary to popular belief,
Speaker 1: had a very good reason for attacking. Rather, Bill Tagger
Speaker 1: was born in the year Bill Tagger is from the future.
Speaker 1: Bill Tagger is not of our planet. Well, technically, he
Speaker 1: is from Earth, but not from our Earth. Tagger comes
Speaker 1: from an Earth and a parallel universe, and he was
Speaker 1: sent here by the government of his planet. On Tagger's Earth,
Speaker 1: the entire planet is under control of one government, Taggers
Speaker 1: worldwide government had been experimenting what's time travel to parallel universes,
Speaker 1: which involves a warp of the space time continuum for
Speaker 1: almost a hundred and fifty years. Bill Tagger, a convicted
Speaker 1: felon on his planet, volunteered to be the first human
Speaker 1: test pilot on the condition that he'd be given a
Speaker 1: full pardon when he returned. Does this sound familiar to
Speaker 1: anybody that's called twelve monkeys? Yeah again Yeah. On Tagger's Earth,
Speaker 1: the vice President of the world as a man named
Speaker 1: Kenneth Burrows, who just happens to look exactly like down Rather.
Speaker 1: Before Tagger entered the time travel chamber, he was paid
Speaker 1: a visit by Vice President Burrows and told that he
Speaker 1: had a transmitter implanted in his brain and if he
Speaker 1: chose to remain in this section of time and space
Speaker 1: that he was being sent to and didn't return to
Speaker 1: the designated time, he would be barraged with messages to
Speaker 1: return until he came back and reported on his mission.
Speaker 1: Then and only then would the transmitter be removed and
Speaker 1: he'd be given his full pardon. Tagger's trip was successful,
Speaker 1: and he landed in New York on September one. All
Speaker 1: was going as planned, and tag Or had prepared for
Speaker 1: his return to his own time when he was mistakenly
Speaker 1: arrested for putting coins and expired meters. After spending thirty
Speaker 1: days in jail and staying on our planet for fourteen
Speaker 1: days longer than he was supposed to, Tigger started receiving
Speaker 1: extremely hostile messages from Vice President Burrows telling him to
Speaker 1: return immediately. Politicians can be such jerks. Why I'm going
Speaker 1: to get thirty days for feeding a meter? I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think it's not real. Oh you think so? Sack
Speaker 1: his story? Okay, sorry, sorry. His window of opportunity had
Speaker 1: passed and he would have to wait another week to
Speaker 1: try to return, and there was no possible way to
Speaker 1: let Burrows know this. The constant voices were driving him insane.
Speaker 1: He wasn't even able to sleep at night. If there
Speaker 1: was any way Tagger could find a precise frequency that
Speaker 1: was being broadcasted to his brain, he could possibly override
Speaker 1: the voices and be able to sleep at night until
Speaker 1: he was able to make his return trip. As he
Speaker 1: walked on the streets of New York late on the
Speaker 1: evening of October fourth, Tigger saw a man who he
Speaker 1: thought was Vice President Kenneth Burrows. He quit, came to
Speaker 1: his senses and knew that Burrows would never make the
Speaker 1: risky trip himself, and figured it must be Burrows is
Speaker 1: double on our earth. However, he thought, what were the
Speaker 1: chances that, out of over five billion people on the planet,
Speaker 1: he would meet the twin of the man who had
Speaker 1: been sending hostile messages directly to his brain for two weeks.
Speaker 1: Tagger called out to the man, Kenneth, Kenneth Burrows. To
Speaker 1: his surprise, the man, whom we know is Dan Rather,
Speaker 1: turned to see who was yelling and not was knocked
Speaker 1: to the ground. Tagger repeatedly kicked Rather as he lay
Speaker 1: on the ground, yelling what's the frequency Kenneth, hoping to
Speaker 1: learn the frequency of the signal being broadcast to his
Speaker 1: brain to stop the voices. When rather didn't respond, Tagger
Speaker 1: realized that he had made a terrible mistake, and indeed
Speaker 1: attacked Burrows is double on our planet. He fled the
Speaker 1: scene and later missed his second and last chanced to
Speaker 1: return to his home planet. Years later, in in an
Speaker 1: attempt to get in contact with somebody who might be
Speaker 1: able to identify the frequency and put an end to
Speaker 1: the voices that haunted him for so many years, Tagger
Speaker 1: shot and killed an NBC technician outside of the Today's
Speaker 1: Show studios. Today, William Tregor sits in prison in New York.
Speaker 1: The voices now an automatic message that replays itself every
Speaker 1: twenty minutes, still playing his head. Damn, you know, I
Speaker 1: got that. That's a you know, that's like having ringing
Speaker 1: in your years whatever, being on the train and hearing
Speaker 1: the announcement. Wouldn't you just tune that out after a while? Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's good point. I don't know. If it's quiet for
Speaker 1: twenty minutes and then a message plays and then it
Speaker 1: turns off, that would be pretty awful. I think that
Speaker 1: every now and again it would startle you. But I
Speaker 1: can imagine that after a week of that, you would
Speaker 1: just learn to not hear it. I mean, think about
Speaker 1: I live near an airport. Every now and again, I
Speaker 1: hear the planes going overhead because I'm in their their
Speaker 1: circle pattern. But every day, you know, but most of
Speaker 1: the time I'll look up, Oh, hey, there's a plane,
Speaker 1: and then suddenly realized that it is these raging lee
Speaker 1: loud noise you did. The other thing he could have
Speaker 1: done was he could have gone to a neurologists and
Speaker 1: just said, hey, I'm getting weird things going with my
Speaker 1: eyesight and stuff, and I think I might have a
Speaker 1: brain tumor. Actually your head. They find that, they find
Speaker 1: the receiver in your head, and they have brain searcher
Speaker 1: health insurance for that. Well, he was a convicted felon
Speaker 1: in his time. He didn't have health insurance. He didn't
Speaker 1: have anything in art. He didn't have anything in art time.
Speaker 1: He was stealing bread to eat. Joe, so go to
Speaker 1: go to one of those hospitals that specializes in poor people.
Speaker 1: The one thing I got to admit I did as
Speaker 1: you were reading this, it suddenly dawned on me and
Speaker 1: I wanted to check because I never figured out where
Speaker 1: this story came from. But the one thing I do
Speaker 1: have to give kudos to the person who wrote this.
Speaker 1: They actually, if it was written a significant amount of
Speaker 1: time after the event, they at least took the time
Speaker 1: to look up the population of this planet in because
Speaker 1: they got the number right. Yeah, well not precisely right.
Speaker 1: It wasn't exactly, it wasn't five bill But how often
Speaker 1: did they say and there was nine billion people on
Speaker 1: the planet in nineteen seventy two? Is like, dude, you
Speaker 1: got the wrong year totally. Yeah, like, at least they
Speaker 1: got that right. But I'm sorry this right, It didn't
Speaker 1: get at all right. Story has been around for so long.
Speaker 1: And did either of you figure out where he came from?
Speaker 1: I have no idea. It's just probably came from Tagger.
Speaker 1: I don't know. The copy pace syndrome tells me that
Speaker 1: it is something from a forum for fun. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think probably. It's probably one of those writing prompts. But yeah,
Speaker 1: like you said, I couldn't find out where it was from.
Speaker 1: I don't think Joe could find out where it's from.
Speaker 1: But I do like it. It's fine, a fun one.
Speaker 1: It's fun and it explains it pretty solidly. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: not true, but still well inspired a movie reallywell monkeys,
Speaker 1: twelve Monkeys. Yeah, supposedly this story was kind of the
Speaker 1: basis for twelve Monkeys. You know what else? The story
Speaker 1: was the basis for him? Uh? No, a song? Are you?
Speaker 1: That's right? Ye? What the frequency Kenneth? Did you guys
Speaker 1: listen after reading this? Did you listen to the read
Speaker 1: the lyrics? Did you? Yeah? I know I do this
Speaker 1: with songs all the time. As you hear it and
Speaker 1: you're bothering along and you're having a good time, and
Speaker 1: then suddenly you read the lyrics and you go, oh,
Speaker 1: what is this about? Maaks those sense? And that's exactly
Speaker 1: how this became a number one song. I don't know
Speaker 1: it had a good tune. People didn't listen to lyrics. No,
Speaker 1: because if you caught yourself reading or you know, going
Speaker 1: along with the words and say and singing them out
Speaker 1: loud and thinking about what it said, whoa, it's a
Speaker 1: weird song? Yeah, wait to go? Are um in a
Speaker 1: terrible play? Oh? That's right, that's yeah, that's so. Can
Speaker 1: you imagine that you had this embarrassing, a little little
Speaker 1: dust up and somebody beats crap out of you, and
Speaker 1: now that's a song about it. Now, that's a play
Speaker 1: about it. Who was it? Which? Which late night show
Speaker 1: was it? The Dan Rather went on with R. E. M.
Speaker 1: And he performed with them. I think it was like
Speaker 1: The Tonight Show or David Letterman or something like that.
Speaker 1: But he at least had enough characters say yeah this happened, fine,
Speaker 1: I'll play along. Yeah, it's a major cultural turning point
Speaker 1: in our history, I mean our nations history. So you know, hey,
Speaker 1: it was a major cultural turning point. Oh yeah, not really. Sorry,
Speaker 1: that supposed to left awarding the Internet. I'm not supposed
Speaker 1: to shot. Yeah. I was just gonna say, Joe has
Speaker 1: an interesting theory. Yeah, well it's not actually my theory.
Speaker 1: This is sorry. Joe found an interesting party. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: found this. This one was a team group effort. I think. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we all kind of went off on our own paths
Speaker 1: on this one, which is unusual, but it's fun. Yeah. So, uh,
Speaker 1: this guy, the guy who came up with this theory
Speaker 1: is named Paul Limbert Allman, and he wrote an essay
Speaker 1: in Harper's Magazine in December of two thousand one in
Speaker 1: which he drew a connection between Dan Rather and a
Speaker 1: writer named Donald Barthelm and Barth Barthelm was kind of
Speaker 1: a postmodernist writer. He he, I don't know, I don't
Speaker 1: know that he ever wrote a novel, but he wrote
Speaker 1: a lot of short stories, and he did a lot
Speaker 1: of other stuff too. He taught at some some universities
Speaker 1: and stuff like that, and he was actually a journalist
Speaker 1: for a while. He grew up in Houston about the
Speaker 1: same time that Dan Rather did, and he went into
Speaker 1: journalism around the same time that Dan Rather did, also
Speaker 1: in Houston. Both of them started out in Houston. So it's, uh,
Speaker 1: it's actually quite likely that Rather in Balthelm or Barthelm.
Speaker 1: Quite likely they had at least a passing acquaintance with
Speaker 1: one another. Yeah. Yeah, and they could have crossed paths
Speaker 1: in good ways or astonishingly negative ways. It's hard to say,
Speaker 1: it's hard to tell him. Yeah, So he all unbelieves
Speaker 1: that Barthelm had had something against Rather and that he
Speaker 1: possibly was behind the attack, and his clues were from
Speaker 1: some stories. Some of the bartown stories are one of
Speaker 1: his stories, actually a couple of his stories. A character
Speaker 1: named Kenneth appears in the story. So that's damning. And
Speaker 1: then there was another story, yeah, and then there was
Speaker 1: another right there, Yeah, he wrote another story which had
Speaker 1: an interesting passage in it, This is kind of a
Speaker 1: Q and A like an inner somebody being interviewed from
Speaker 1: Then the story was called kirk Yard unfair to Schlegel. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it sounds like a story I'm gonna go out. Yeah
Speaker 1: maybe in Russia, yeah, Germany. So here's answer. I'm on
Speaker 1: a train, a European train with compartments. A young girl
Speaker 1: enters and it sits opposite me. The book is in
Speaker 1: her lap. Her legs are fairly wide apart, very tanned.
Speaker 1: The color of question, that's a very common fantasy answer.
Speaker 1: All of my fantasies are extremely ordinary. Question. Does it
Speaker 1: give you pleasure? Answer? Or rather unsatisfactory question? What is
Speaker 1: the frequency? Yeah? Absolutely, he's guilty. Frequency he's guilty. I
Speaker 1: really just called that writer's block. Yeah. Another story he
Speaker 1: wrote another story called This is Barthea Elm again called
Speaker 1: the Emerald and What. There's a character named Lather who
Speaker 1: was a newspaper writeritor who was a complete flaming papas jerk,
Speaker 1: and al Man seems to believe that Barthel basis character
Speaker 1: and Dan rather and he seems to believe that he
Speaker 1: had some sort of a grudge against rather, and that
Speaker 1: was his motivation for either being part of the sort
Speaker 1: of being behind the soor preps just as randomly inspiring
Speaker 1: this attack. M Yeah, I don't know. I mean this
Speaker 1: kind of the idea that Dan rather is the basis
Speaker 1: for a character named Lather that I'm I'm willing to
Speaker 1: go there. I'm not willing to go there with the
Speaker 1: what's the frequency? In the Q and A? And I'm
Speaker 1: not really willing to go there just because he named
Speaker 1: a couple of characters Kenneth. Yeah, but hey, circumstantial, Like
Speaker 1: I said, this is this is an amazingly weak theory. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm not sure that he I'm pretty sure that Almond
Speaker 1: was not entirely serious about this. Well, I see here
Speaker 1: that that you did give this Actually I've never seen
Speaker 1: to do this, but you gave this theory a score, Joe, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I did, had three thumbs up out of a possible
Speaker 1: hundred thumbs. Yeah. Yeah. Uh So. He also adapted this
Speaker 1: into a play called Kenneth, What does the Frequency, which
Speaker 1: played a few months in New York City at the
Speaker 1: seventy eight Street Theater Lab. And I bet that was
Speaker 1: for excellent Yeah, And that was also performed with the
Speaker 1: two thousand for Edinburgh Fringe Festival. Of course it was,
Speaker 1: and it got reviewed by Variety. They gave it kind
Speaker 1: of a tepid review. Yeah, yeah, I don't know. You
Speaker 1: cannot like a person and not orchestra in an attack
Speaker 1: on them and still make fun of them. There is
Speaker 1: a people that I don't like and I make fun of,
Speaker 1: and yet I have never contracted a beating on them.
Speaker 1: Safe good job. That seems kind of a street ye
Speaker 1: to go to that length, you just you don't like you?
Speaker 1: What was the term a pompish jerk? I believe that
Speaker 1: if you consider a pompish jerk, tho it is what's
Speaker 1: the what's the frequency? Kenneth? I don't quite get that.
Speaker 1: There's no reason so that he can pepper really really
Speaker 1: innocuous kind of references throughout his literature for their next
Speaker 1: ten years right and garner attention for Well, it could
Speaker 1: be related, but maybe not, but probably not. Maybe maybe
Speaker 1: I don't know. Another theory, and this is I think
Speaker 1: our most solid serious theory so far, is that this
Speaker 1: was just a piece of performance art. No, that's not real.
Speaker 1: You can't fool me. Joe is now shoehorning. Random theory
Speaker 1: it's a shoehorned theory that to start with. Yeah, there's
Speaker 1: another theory out there on the a shoehorns. Somebody ordered
Speaker 1: this as a hit kind of train that Steve ended
Speaker 1: up I think doing a lot of more research on
Speaker 1: than I did, because I'm not really excited about it.
Speaker 1: I really shouldn't have spent all of the time Saturday
Speaker 1: when I got to bed at like one three in
Speaker 1: the morning for being on the internet. Nope, you shouldn't have.
Speaker 1: But it's it involves Uh, I was beating the bushes.
Speaker 1: You are beating the bushes. Because this deals entirely with
Speaker 1: the Bush family. Dan rather has a reputation for, as
Speaker 1: his editors and producers whuls say, pissing people off. He's
Speaker 1: good at at getting to the core and finding what's
Speaker 1: going on, or at least finding out how to ask
Speaker 1: the right question to really rattle somebody and getting new
Speaker 1: things out of him. Yeah. I mean, that's that's a
Speaker 1: skill that is an admirable one when you're in that profession.
Speaker 1: He did not have the best relationship with George H. W. Bush,
Speaker 1: who first senior yeh senior it was, was President of
Speaker 1: the United States, and during that time when when Bush
Speaker 1: was running for president, the whole I Ran Contra affair
Speaker 1: had broken open, and like a Nesta spiders, it was
Speaker 1: just it was a terrible, terrible thing for people in politics,
Speaker 1: and it was it really it destroyed a lot of careers.
Speaker 1: One of the people that Rather when after was George
Speaker 1: Bush Senior. And I understand this is two years after
Speaker 1: the beating I've seen, and I had a hard time
Speaker 1: trying to find an archive of all Dan Rather stories
Speaker 1: that was easy to go through. But it's gonna say
Speaker 1: that would be massive. Yes, it is a massive. Therefore,
Speaker 1: nobody's really put it together, but even Dan Rather himself.
Speaker 1: But he does, but it doesn't it's not that user friendly. Yeah,
Speaker 1: But the point is he wasn't afraid to go after
Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan and after George Bush Senior. And he seems
Speaker 1: to have, according to this theory, really really peeved off
Speaker 1: Senior to the point that George Bush Sr. Sent a
Speaker 1: couple of guys after him to beat the crap out
Speaker 1: of him. Seems leg Hey, you're you're a political figure,
Speaker 1: you're the vice president of the country. You can do
Speaker 1: whatever you want, according to this theory, And I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna say that's true, but that's according to this theory caught.
Speaker 1: And of course then they beat the crap out of him.
Speaker 1: They say something that I don't even I can't even
Speaker 1: draw a guess is what it means. But this of
Speaker 1: course then prompts Dan Rather to do his failed ambush
Speaker 1: on George Bush Senior in didn't work as so it
Speaker 1: didn't for him. This for anybody who doesn't know, Bush
Speaker 1: Senior was running for president, he was still the vice president,
Speaker 1: and he agreed to go on CBS to do I
Speaker 1: think it was about a nine or ten minute interview
Speaker 1: with Dan Rather about his presidency. And immediately Dan swings
Speaker 1: it back to the Iran contra affair. I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: go into the whole thing. Watch it. It goes terribly.
Speaker 1: Senior takes the reins away from Dan Rather and terris
Speaker 1: him anew and runs the whole thing. I I actually started,
Speaker 1: I was watching it on YouTube. I actually pulled up
Speaker 1: another website just so I could look at something different,
Speaker 1: so I didn't have to see George Bush Senior in
Speaker 1: his terrible giant glasses and Dan Rather with the look
Speaker 1: of the deer in the headlights because he was just
Speaker 1: getting ripped apart. Yeah, but from then on, I mean
Speaker 1: the family, he and the family have not gotten together
Speaker 1: got along. Well, there's what is your the Killian documents.
Speaker 1: This is what I think that that moment might have
Speaker 1: been the beginning of Rather's downfall. It was the beginning
Speaker 1: of the downwards that took almost twenty years. Well I
Speaker 1: did a while, but but you know, he had a
Speaker 1: his chance. He had his chance in two thousand four
Speaker 1: when w was up for re election George June and
Speaker 1: he has chance. He hoped to try to take him
Speaker 1: down and make him lose that election, and he got
Speaker 1: some obviously pathetically forged memos from this guy. So George
Speaker 1: Bush Senior was the forty first president, yea junior was,
Speaker 1: and yes, so go ahead because yeah, I I was
Speaker 1: gonna explain it, but you're you you know this, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: So he had this his this informant, his name was Killian.
Speaker 1: I've leave and from Texas and he had a couple
Speaker 1: of a couple of memos proportedly purportedly from Bush's Air
Speaker 1: National Guard commander way back in like the sixties was
Speaker 1: when he was in the text because he was getting
Speaker 1: preferential treatment to stay in country and fly jets and
Speaker 1: not go to Vietnam. In Bush's defense, he actually volunteered
Speaker 1: to go to Vietnam. He did, but there was there
Speaker 1: was a number of I read a huge article and
Speaker 1: I can't remember what Texas magazine about quite a few
Speaker 1: senators sons that didn't go, and they all ended up
Speaker 1: in the same unit. And it was kind of I
Speaker 1: think they called it the hot tub unit because it
Speaker 1: was just it was an easy gig. You could do
Speaker 1: whatever you want. You weren't actually going to go to war,
Speaker 1: so who cared? Yeah, that would be kind of nice,
Speaker 1: and of course, well the problem is the problem is,
Speaker 1: of course, rather aired the story on CBS, it was wrong.
Speaker 1: He did not do his due diligence. Turns out he didn't.
Speaker 1: Somebody actually did a great gift on the Internet of doc.
Speaker 1: They say it was typed up on a typewriter. But
Speaker 1: when you take this doc and you take the scan
Speaker 1: version of it, and then you superimpose on it Microsoft
Speaker 1: Word Times New Roman fond inWORD on top, it's exactly identical.
Speaker 1: Like somebody just photo copied something they printed out of
Speaker 1: word four or five times to degrade it, and nobody
Speaker 1: had CBS fact checked it. And that that's what that's
Speaker 1: what got Rather kicked out on his Exactly. They had
Speaker 1: they actually had people lined up who to authenticate the documents,
Speaker 1: and it was just, you know, Rather was so beside
Speaker 1: himself with with with eagerness to get this out there
Speaker 1: that he didn't bother consulting with those people immediately. Um,
Speaker 1: there was one of the viewer on the East Coast.
Speaker 1: I saw them on sixty minutes and spott at the
Speaker 1: Times new Roman format there fonds immediately and that's the
Speaker 1: default font setting. Yeah, exactly, very anytime. If you look
Speaker 1: at where, you know exactly what we're talking about, the
Speaker 1: same spacing, same everything. Yeah, And hilariously enough is his
Speaker 1: his producer who got fired for this. Her name was
Speaker 1: Mary Maybe's and Mary Maples. It was Maples. Her last
Speaker 1: name is Maples. I thought it was Map's just m Aps.
Speaker 1: It could be maybe anybody's sure it's not, but but anyway,
Speaker 1: she uh. She published a book afterwards, claiming that there
Speaker 1: had been a big conspiracy at the heart of the
Speaker 1: whole thing because this guy posted on the East Coast
Speaker 1: to a website called pre Republic. Well, their servers are
Speaker 1: in California, or at least they were then, and so
Speaker 1: when he posted this right after sixty minutes went off
Speaker 1: the air, but of course it was time stepped with
Speaker 1: the time stamped with the California time, so it actually
Speaker 1: appeared that he posted this before sixty minutes it even aired.
Speaker 1: So therefore thereby was born a big conspiracy. Yeah, now
Speaker 1: it's beating us. Um, yeah, well they're there's all kinds
Speaker 1: of political ramblings, and we don't need to go into
Speaker 1: those political ramblings because I mean, we all have our
Speaker 1: own unique use and that's perfectly fine. The point is,
Speaker 1: rather in the Bushes didn't get along, and somehow George H. W.
Speaker 1: Bush was behind the beating the Dan rather God for
Speaker 1: unknown offense. That's the theory. But the theory it's wrong. Well,
Speaker 1: it's better than the time Traveler twelve monkey theory. It's not.
Speaker 1: There's actually yes, it is. You are so many foul
Speaker 1: words want to come out right now. No, it is
Speaker 1: way better than No. I don't know. There's one more
Speaker 1: theory that we should discuss. One more thing about the
Speaker 1: Bush theory though, was I think if they had really
Speaker 1: wanted to do to give him a pounding, they would
Speaker 1: have done it right. They would have. They would have
Speaker 1: pulled him into a into a taxi and take them
Speaker 1: out into a field somewhere and kick the lid and
Speaker 1: crap out of them. Yeah, they would about that would
Speaker 1: have given him a really good beating. Well, but the
Speaker 1: idea could have been, let's get him beat up in
Speaker 1: public and make him look like a fool, to tarnish
Speaker 1: his his not his credibility, but his image. Oh wait,
Speaker 1: you're the big man behind the cant or in front
Speaker 1: of the camera, but you can't defend yourself when you're
Speaker 1: walking down the sidewalk. That's that's just as plausible. But
Speaker 1: we've we've belabored that enough. I think Devin has one more.
Speaker 1: There's another theory. There's one more. It is that William
Speaker 1: or Bill Tigger was a crazy person could have been
Speaker 1: attacked Dan rather because he thought he was monitoring him. Yeah. Actually,
Speaker 1: you know what, there's a lot of support for this. Actually, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's actually not at all unusual for mentally ill people
Speaker 1: to assault other people of New York, especially high profile
Speaker 1: ones that they see on the TV. Yeah. So it
Speaker 1: turns out the reason that Bill Tagger tried to walk
Speaker 1: into the Today Show with a rifle is because he
Speaker 1: thought he needed the rifle to defend himself, because he
Speaker 1: thought that the people from the TV were monitoring him,
Speaker 1: including bugging his car, and that they had been watching
Speaker 1: him for a number of years, and that he I
Speaker 1: don't know why he thought he would go there and
Speaker 1: defend himself, but that was the That was the story
Speaker 1: that he told. He said he took the rifle because
Speaker 1: he thought he needed to defend himself. Didn't you say
Speaker 1: also that they were beaming messages in the head. Yes,
Speaker 1: he also said that he had information that they wanted.
Speaker 1: He was going there because he had the information they
Speaker 1: wanted and they were requesting his presence or some something
Speaker 1: to that, so he had to take the rifle to
Speaker 1: defend himself while he was there with them. Well, but
Speaker 1: did you did you guys read that? He also he
Speaker 1: was so sure they were bugging the news media in
Speaker 1: general is what he's talking about. In general, we're bugging
Speaker 1: every thing in his life, to the point that he
Speaker 1: went out and rented rented a car. He didn't take
Speaker 1: his own car. He rented a car so that the
Speaker 1: bug couldn't be in it. He was I think he
Speaker 1: genuinely did think this. I don't I don't there's a
Speaker 1: lot of support. I think that he was sadly, sadly
Speaker 1: had some serious issues going on. And he said, and
Speaker 1: you know, when he was arrested and sentenced and he
Speaker 1: spent his time in jail and sing sing the all
Speaker 1: the documents from there say, you know, he says he
Speaker 1: drunk socially, that he you know, smoked pot every once
Speaker 1: in a while, but he wasn't you know, he didn't
Speaker 1: have a problem with alcohol, wasn't a yeah, he wasn't
Speaker 1: an addict. Was just crazy. He was just crazy. I mean,
Speaker 1: is there's no was He's still um. But the that
Speaker 1: kind of does make sense for why he might try
Speaker 1: to beat Dan rather up if he thought that the
Speaker 1: news media was bugging him or following him, if he
Speaker 1: just happened to see somebody who he thought legitimately was
Speaker 1: monitoring his life walking on the street by happenstance or not,
Speaker 1: he would try to defend himself from that person and
Speaker 1: go and attack that person and start beating him up.
Speaker 1: Why he would be yelling something even remotely like what's
Speaker 1: the frequency, Kenneth, I don't know, but hey, I have
Speaker 1: so I have two things to say on that. One
Speaker 1: what's the frequency. Kenneth may again, Rather may not know
Speaker 1: what was said and misremembered, or Tagger may have been
Speaker 1: in an altered state, not drug or alcohol induced, just
Speaker 1: an altered state. So what he thought he was saying
Speaker 1: didn't come out what Rather heard, and so rather than
Speaker 1: did his best to interpret it. But I've read the
Speaker 1: same court docs that you have. You know who's not
Speaker 1: ever mentioned in those court documents and rather the second man?
Speaker 1: You know, it's the man of the grassy knoll. The
Speaker 1: second man is never mentioned. Suddenly Taggers taking all responsibility
Speaker 1: or actually I don't even think he's taking responsibility because
Speaker 1: he's not admitting guilt. He's just saying, these are the
Speaker 1: things I did, and this is what the problem. He
Speaker 1: didn't talk about the rather and he never talks about
Speaker 1: so he wouldn't he wouldn't raise the whole second man exactly.
Speaker 1: But all we have is his psych psychiatrist, is it psychiatrist,
Speaker 1: a psychologist, psycho psychiatrist, his psychiatrists information about this, about
Speaker 1: this whole thing. So that to me is like, well,
Speaker 1: what happened the second dude? And if he's been so
Speaker 1: open about what he did, why is he not admitting
Speaker 1: to just wailing on Dan Rather. Yeah, and also like,
Speaker 1: where do you find a second man who's like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: the news media is totally monitoring your whole life. You
Speaker 1: should definitely go beat up Dan Rather. You know that
Speaker 1: guy that guys probably from the Bush family, they him
Speaker 1: after them. This guy, this guy knows the neighborhood that
Speaker 1: that Rather lives in, you know, and he finds this random,
Speaker 1: crazy guy who's who thinks the media is like doing
Speaker 1: all this stuff to him. And this guy's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I kind't think you're right, you know, I
Speaker 1: think you need to go on the offensive. And hey,
Speaker 1: look over there, it's Dan Rather. Yeah. No, I mean
Speaker 1: I think, um, I don't know, I don't I don't think.
Speaker 1: I don't think that that's the right one either. But
Speaker 1: I also I do want to point out this is
Speaker 1: New York City in the eighties, the mid eighties, before
Speaker 1: they cleaned their active New York was a rough town.
Speaker 1: Lots of crazies running around, lots of lots of folks
Speaker 1: were around, not the safest place to be, And it
Speaker 1: is possible. I mean, we talked about this before. It's
Speaker 1: just a random attack. It's I've seen I hate to
Speaker 1: admit this, but I've seen this happen on the streets
Speaker 1: of Portland, where one person jumps up and starts chasing
Speaker 1: after another to do them harm, and the second, or
Speaker 1: I guess it would be a third person hops up
Speaker 1: and chases along to see what's going on and suddenly
Speaker 1: see's a shot two or an opening to get a
Speaker 1: shot in and suddenly becomes a three person fight. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so that could very well be what we're doing, which
Speaker 1: is our very one of our very first theories. It's
Speaker 1: not not a nice town at that time. Now, it
Speaker 1: might be that Dan made up the second guy because
Speaker 1: he didn't want to admit he gotten his butt kicked
Speaker 1: by a single crazy guy, but a single But also
Speaker 1: it's possible that you know, he saw he did see
Speaker 1: a second person on the street who wasn't involved at all,
Speaker 1: because he got punched from behind, went down, saw that
Speaker 1: there was somebody else standing there, got up, ran away
Speaker 1: there this person was chasing him and started beating him
Speaker 1: up again, and he just assumed that that person standing
Speaker 1: on the street was involved, and that third person was
Speaker 1: basically pulling a nell Sin from the Simpsons, pointing and
Speaker 1: laughing or not even I mean or just saying well,
Speaker 1: I really don't want to get involved with that. By
Speaker 1: WHOA did that really happen? Well? I thank god they
Speaker 1: ran away. Yeah, you know, I think that Dan Rather.
Speaker 1: Dan Rather was an experienced journalists, and like all experienced journalists,
Speaker 1: he gets almost everything wrong. That's probably that, you know, basically,
Speaker 1: why this whole thing is always possible doesn't make any
Speaker 1: sense at all. Yeah. Yeah, well with that unsatisfactory ending,
Speaker 1: I thought you said this was not unsolvable, Devon, It's
Speaker 1: not unsolvable. All we have to do is find Kenneth. Well,
Speaker 1: get out a phone book. Yep, damn you and Joe's
Speaker 1: logic see it. You'd be easy if we could just
Speaker 1: find Kenneth. Um. Yeah, you can find links to some
Speaker 1: of our research, probably at least one of those copy
Speaker 1: pasted websites just for fun, only one, not all twelve
Speaker 1: that we research. Um, you can find that, and you
Speaker 1: can listen to the show on our website, thinking sideways
Speaker 1: podcast dot com. You're probably not listening to us there.
Speaker 1: You're probably listening to us on iTunes. If you are, subscribe,
Speaker 1: leave a comment and a reading. That's how people find us. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and a good rating is usually preferred over a really
Speaker 1: bad We don't really care. I prefer reading. Yeah. Actually,
Speaker 1: actually the bad ones are kind of amusing sometimes, but
Speaker 1: don't leave a bad one just on that account. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's way better. You also could be streaming us from
Speaker 1: just almost any streaming site of all times ever, or
Speaker 1: streaming app. You can find us on Twitter we are
Speaker 1: Thinking sideways. You can find us on Facebook Thinking Sideways Podcast.
Speaker 1: There's a page and a group. You can email us
Speaker 1: at Thinking Sideways Podcast at gmail dot com. You can
Speaker 1: also I always forget. You can get merchandise if you won't.
Speaker 1: You can wear a shirt of ours. Won't if you won't,
Speaker 1: won't if it's a it's a southern thing, it's a
Speaker 1: young person thing, calmed down how we say it? God
Speaker 1: won't what won't? Yeah, you can wear a shirt of ours.
Speaker 1: You can have a phone case of ours. You can
Speaker 1: have a creepy, weird night light. I just fixed our
Speaker 1: logo T shirt. One of our listeners brought it up
Speaker 1: that there was a bit of an issue with it,
Speaker 1: and so we went ahead and fixed that. So it
Speaker 1: prints and is much better. It's pretty now, Yes, its
Speaker 1: to It's all on Zazzle. You can find the link
Speaker 1: to that just above the donate button on our u website.
Speaker 1: It's on the right hand. There's a little picture of
Speaker 1: swag there. Now, yeah, cool? Anything else to add the fact?
Speaker 1: Now we are working on other products for you. Hopefully
Speaker 1: one of these days we'll have like a beer cozy
Speaker 1: and and maybe a bottle opener in a k and
Speaker 1: a car cover and we're making custom to be tiles. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you can driveway. I have two emails as well tomorrow because,
Speaker 1: oh my god, if we can get them to make
Speaker 1: those that awesome. I like the idea of a toy
Speaker 1: be tile kid. I think that'd be kind of cool. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think it's called home depot. Yeah. Yeah. Anyways, that
Speaker 1: all having been said, since we have nothing else to
Speaker 1: contribute to this unsolvable case, we're going to get out
Speaker 1: of here, all right. It sounds good? Alright to later everybody?
Speaker 1: What is that frequency? Though it hurts