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Speaker 1: Well, fellow conspiracy realists, think you as always so much

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Speaker 1: for tuning in. We are returning to you with a

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Speaker 1: classic episode that is not for the faint of heart.

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Speaker 1: We do have, I think, an ethical responsibility to mention

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Speaker 1: that this contains graphic descriptions of disturbing and very real conspiracies.

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Speaker 1: We called it the Red Market. It's about the organ trade,

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Speaker 1: not the organ trail. We did this in twenty nineteen.

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Speaker 2: You know, I commented off Mike, this is one of

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Speaker 2: my favorites, which I don't know what that says about me.

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Speaker 2: I just I've always been fascinated by the black market

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Speaker 2: trading of human organs.

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Speaker 3: There's a Korean film from the early.

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Speaker 2: Two thousands called Sympathy for Mister Vengeance that really got

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Speaker 2: my mind whirling.

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Speaker 3: As far as like this type of crime.

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Speaker 2: I think I probably mentioned that on the episode as well,

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Speaker 2: but it's really does. It is a whole world that

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Speaker 2: you might not be aware of, blissfully, and we're about

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Speaker 2: to take you down that particular bloody rabbit hole.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. This is also one of my favorite videos we

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Speaker 4: ever made, guys, when we went on a little road

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Speaker 4: trip to the Guide Stones and we made a video

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Speaker 4: in the car Ben talking about the red Market, and

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Speaker 4: it was awesome. You did a drive and make a

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Speaker 4: video which was probably.

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Speaker 1: We never explained it.

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Speaker 4: We do explain it, but we also just it was

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Speaker 4: a little dangerous. You were just driving and being awesome

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Speaker 4: on camera and I don't know how you did both

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Speaker 4: at the same time, but you pulled it off. But

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Speaker 4: great video. Check it out on the YouTube channel. Did

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Speaker 4: you guys hear about this guy in Kentucky from It's

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Speaker 4: a story that is just coming out now, but it

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Speaker 4: happened in twenty twenty.

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Speaker 1: Most got his organs almost wasted. Yeah, he almost that.

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Speaker 1: He was an organ donor, yes, and it's legal for

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Speaker 1: people to take your organs as an organ donor if

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Speaker 1: you are dead.

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Speaker 4: Yes, And he was declared brain dead after he over dosed.

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Speaker 4: But then as he was being wheeled in to have

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Speaker 4: his organs taken out, he was attempting to move his

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Speaker 4: eyes around and let people know he was awake. His

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Speaker 4: family noticed. Doctors tell him, no, no, that's just normal.

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Speaker 4: That's what happens. He gets on the O R table

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Speaker 4: he's being prepped, and then he starts flailing around on

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Speaker 4: the table and the surgeons are like, guys, we can't

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Speaker 4: do this, yeah, I mean.

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Speaker 1: The still moving Yeah. Usually this is a part of

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Speaker 1: why this classic episode resonates with us so much tonight, folks,

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Speaker 1: as you listen with us and explore this with us,

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Speaker 1: it is possible that the government of China is executing

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Speaker 1: prisoners and political or religious dissidents and then selling their organs.

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Speaker 4: And the big scary takeaway in this episode the remember

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Speaker 4: the thing we talked about is where else could it

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Speaker 4: be happening?

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Speaker 1: And how?

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Speaker 3: Well, let's jump right into the episode, guys.

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Speaker 5: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies, history is

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Speaker 5: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 5: learn this stuff they don't.

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Speaker 1: Want you to know.

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Speaker 4: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

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Speaker 4: my name is Noel.

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Speaker 1: They call me Ben and you are you? And that

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Speaker 1: makes this stuff they don't want you to know. Today's

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Speaker 1: podcast comes oddly enough, from a pretty tasteless joke that

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Speaker 1: we made a while back, and I don't remember if

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Speaker 1: it made it to the air.

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Speaker 3: It did.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, we were joking about the Oregon Trail because someone

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Speaker 4: suggested we covered the topic of illegal organ trafficking, which

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Speaker 4: is a great suggestion.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And then we all died of dysentery.

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Speaker 1: And then we all die of dysentery in the middle.

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Speaker 3: Of a spoiler alert.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because we were dumb enough to start the game

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Speaker 1: as farmers. Oh they never do that, way harder. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: we were kicking around, just terrible titles, and one of

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Speaker 1: those was, of course.

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Speaker 3: The organ trail. The organ Well, if you say it

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Speaker 3: like that, yeah, it can go either way.

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Speaker 1: Well, title aside, this is I don't apologize for that

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Speaker 1: title pn. I didn't. I just said title aside. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So we think this is a complex, global and continual

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Speaker 1: phenomenon and it is worth exploring in depth because, aside

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Speaker 1: from some maybe scare pieces that pop up at a

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Speaker 1: slow day in the news cycle, this is not really

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Speaker 1: examined and the causes of it aren't examined as well.

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Speaker 1: There is a lot of stuff they don't want you

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Speaker 1: to know about organ transplants, the organ trade in general,

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Speaker 1: what has been called the red market. So at first

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Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you, guys, Matt Noll, those are

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Speaker 1: our real names. Sorry for everyone. Should we apologize for

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Speaker 1: that one?

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Speaker 3: I don't know what you're talking about.

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Speaker 1: That's a good point, So have you guys ever known

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Speaker 1: or been acquainted with someone who received an organ transplant.

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Speaker 4: I could not come up with a good example when

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Speaker 4: I was going back through my life.

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Speaker 3: If you count bone marrow, which I think you should, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: then yes, I know. It's an intense process as far

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Speaker 3: as like getting on a list, getting matched with the

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Speaker 3: right candidate, and then actually getting the procedure done and

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Speaker 3: having everything booked because it is a very timely process.

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Speaker 3: You know, once everything goes through, and there's a lot

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Speaker 3: of uncertainty, and you even hear stories about people trying

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Speaker 3: to get higher up on the list by you know,

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Speaker 3: grease and some palms here and there, you know, right,

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Speaker 3: So I mean there's a lot at stake obviously, and

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Speaker 3: I won't say who this person was just to you know,

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Speaker 3: maintain their their privacy, but yeah, it was it was

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Speaker 3: very nerve nerve wracking, just wondering when it was going

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Speaker 3: to happen, when it was going to go through, and

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Speaker 3: when it did go through, if everything was going to

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Speaker 3: work out correctly.

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Speaker 1: Mm hmmm, yeah, because even with everything going as well

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Speaker 1: as possible, there's still, ah, there's still a significant risk.

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Speaker 3: Sure, and it's not like if that one doesn't work out.

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Speaker 3: They're just going to give you another one. I mean,

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Speaker 3: that's the one that you get, and then if it

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Speaker 3: doesn't work out, if you make it, you have to

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Speaker 3: start the whole process over it.

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Speaker 1: So that is a terrifying prospect. Let's let's talk about

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Speaker 1: organs first, because, as you know, this podcast is part

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Speaker 1: of how stuff works. So we want to start at

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Speaker 1: the most basic thing. Organs. There are what are the

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Speaker 1: few things that everybody has in common? Everyone who is

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Speaker 1: involved with this show, we all have organs.

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Speaker 4: Yes, everyone listening to the show hopefully has organs.

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Speaker 1: Maybe there's some sort of machine consciousness listening there, and

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Speaker 1: that gets into a conversation about what would constitute an organ.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, maybe Dick Cheney is listening with his robotic heart

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Speaker 4: that just constantly circulates blood instead of pumping.

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Speaker 1: That's a pacemaker. That's not, isn't it. I thought it was.

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Speaker 4: It's not. He doesn't have a pacemaker anymore. Now it's

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Speaker 4: just a constant flow of blood. There's no he has

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Speaker 4: no heartbeat.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I thought you just meant he was like a

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Speaker 3: heartless individual. I thought you were, Well.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, no, no, I'm not rioffing this is true, But

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Speaker 4: but I'm also implying certain certain ways.

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Speaker 1: There are levels to this statement. Well, I want one

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Speaker 1: of those.

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Speaker 3: Cheney charming person That's true.

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Speaker 1: You usually say that as.

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Speaker 3: Soon as I'm smiling. I'm doing it just just just

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Speaker 3: for the for folks listening, I am doing a big

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Speaker 3: chess or cat grin here.

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Speaker 4: I know.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes I say things like I mean them, and then

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Speaker 3: I'm smiling or making a face that these guys and

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Speaker 3: you guys don't see that. So you may think I

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Speaker 3: have quite an odd variety of opinions out there in

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Speaker 3: podcast Lamba. Just to set the record straight, you know,

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Speaker 3: Dick Cheney's the Prince going.

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Speaker 1: Noe Brown is a huge Dick Cheney fan. So, by

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Speaker 1: the strictest definition and in biology, biologically speaking, outside of

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Speaker 1: the world of music, an organ is just a group

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Speaker 1: of tissues in a living organism that have been adapted

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Speaker 1: to perform a specific function. Sounds simple, don't Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: sounds pretty simple. You have a heart, and your heart

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Speaker 1: has like one main job, right.

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Speaker 4: Sure, same with your liver, your kidneys, your eyes, all

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Speaker 4: of the parts. I think there are seventy eight official organs.

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Speaker 1: Well by that by it depends again on the definition

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Speaker 1: and be around seventy eight. People will argue back and

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Speaker 1: forth what does or does not constitute a organ entire.

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Speaker 3: What I find meat though, is that these organs are

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Speaker 3: divided into two very distinct categories. All the ones we

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Speaker 3: mentioned are considered vital organs, which are organs that are

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Speaker 3: absolutely essential for maintaining your health and you know, your life. Ultimately.

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Speaker 3: These are the kinds of things like your heart, your brain,

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Speaker 3: your kidneys, your liver, things that perform processes that you

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Speaker 3: need done in order to live in the environment that we.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think the besides the eyes, I mentioned the eyes,

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Speaker 4: that's true, but I don't know.

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Speaker 3: Would you consider eye as part of this second category

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Speaker 3: vestigial organs, which is no way yeah either, well.

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Speaker 4: I I don't know. I don't know. I think you

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Speaker 4: would probably get arguments for that.

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Speaker 3: I suppose you could say, maybe we could live in

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Speaker 3: a society or we have evolved beyond the need of

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Speaker 3: our eyes, but you'd certainly put you at a disadvantage.

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Speaker 1: Sure, and right now society has evolved to make something

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Speaker 1: like blindness or deafness not a death sentence. But people

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Speaker 1: were simply animals in the.

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Speaker 3: Wild gather type scenario, like you d be sunk.

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Speaker 1: It'd be it would be more difficult, for sure. And

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Speaker 1: that's that's one of the that's one of the great

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Speaker 1: benefits of the the whole human experiment. Right. But well,

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Speaker 1: let's talk about these other organs vestigial right, vestigial organs.

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Speaker 1: This would be something that is a rudimentary structure in

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Speaker 1: us that corresponds to a functional structure in another animal. Right,

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Speaker 1: sometimes described as the lower animals, which I think is

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Speaker 1: hugely condescending and unfair. But we have all kinds.

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Speaker 3: Of examples of this, right, What about things like tonsils

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Speaker 3: or like an appendix.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, wisdom teeth or maybe a tail. Yes, people are

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Speaker 1: born sometimes with the tail.

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Speaker 3: Perhaps male nipples.

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Speaker 1: Oh man, whoa, I'm so tired of like it used

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Speaker 1: to really bother me. It's like, why are these here?

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Speaker 1: Is it no purpose?

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Speaker 4: You guys aren't using them right, I mean not like

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Speaker 4: right now. No, I'm just saying you're not using them correctly.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I see, we're a family show, did you guys see?

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Speaker 4: I just yeah, really fast? Okay? Did you see the

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Speaker 4: article about the Atlanta Native couple Josh and Chuck posted

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Speaker 4: this quick thing? A woman who left her job to

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Speaker 4: find a male partner, oh to to breastfeeds feed like adults,

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Speaker 4: And this is apparently a huge thing.

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Speaker 3: Is it like a like a fetishy thing?

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Speaker 4: I think it is?

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Speaker 3: OK?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but he doesn't have some sort of strange disorder

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Speaker 1: that makes him some sort of breast milk vampire.

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Speaker 3: Does she like have to burp him and stuff?

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Speaker 4: I don't know, but but I did some looking into

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Speaker 4: this story, and it appears that there's a whole counterculture

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Speaker 4: of people who do this, who believe that there are

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Speaker 4: massive health benefits for both.

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Speaker 1: Parties, people who say that their health benefits.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and perhaps that is an episode for another day.

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Speaker 1: And perhaps perhaps you are right, And hey, it's tough

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Speaker 1: to be happy, So I wish them the best of luck.

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Speaker 1: It sounds like it's consensual returning to organs. So we've

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Speaker 1: got these things. We need many of them. There's some

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Speaker 1: that we don't particularly need need to live, right.

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Speaker 3: You can go without acadney, you know both.

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Speaker 1: You could go without wisdom teeth, right, sure, So what

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Speaker 1: do you do when the important ones fail? The ones

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Speaker 1: that are not like add on packages to the car

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Speaker 1: that is your body, but the stuff that's like the

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Speaker 1: engine and the transmission, well, for thousands and thousands and

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Speaker 1: thousands of years. When people's organs failed, they died. Yep,

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Speaker 1: that was it, sometimes quickly, sometimes in prolonged, excruciatingly painful ways.

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Speaker 1: The human body. To bring it to our current capitalists societ,

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Speaker 1: the human body was a product with planned obsolescence, no warranties,

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Speaker 1: and no returns, no exchanges either.

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Speaker 4: And that's not to say that over the years throughout

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Speaker 4: history medical science hasn't been attempting to replace these things

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Speaker 4: in dying humans when their heart is giving out or

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Speaker 4: their liver is dying or something like that. We've attempted

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Speaker 4: humans many times to try and replace these things.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, not you, Nolan, me, but fellow members of our

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Speaker 1: species have been experimenting with organ transplants since at least

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Speaker 1: the seventeenth century, in animals and in humans. And along

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Speaker 1: the way there were many, many, many gruesome, horrific and

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Speaker 1: tragic failures.

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Speaker 4: A lot of them we don't even know about because

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Speaker 4: they were never written down.

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Speaker 1: Right, But we do have early examples.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, sixteen sixty eight, a bone graft was attempted using

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Speaker 3: a dog's skull and actually successfully attached this graft to

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Speaker 3: a human's head.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, And we see the animal transplants, the practice

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Speaker 1: of putting animal components into a human body, where we're

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Speaker 1: not unheard of.

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean at the time, it probably seemed like

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Speaker 3: a logical jump to make you know, why not, let's

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Speaker 3: just give it a shot.

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Speaker 1: And that could have also been at the uh what

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Speaker 1: if stage?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, sure, especially if you're getting desperate trying to save somebody,

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Speaker 4: I mean, and if someone is on their last legs,

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Speaker 4: you'd try anything, and in that desperation. In nineteen oh five,

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Speaker 4: there were some doctors who took slices of a rabbit kidney.

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Speaker 4: They put it into a child and it did seem

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Speaker 4: to improve kidney function, at least for a little while. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 4: the child did die shortly after that from from pulmonary congestion.

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Speaker 1: Right. And then in the same year nineteen o five,

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Speaker 1: doctors managed to transplant a cornea into the damaged eye

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Speaker 1: of a laborer, restoring his sight.

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Speaker 4: That's that, to me is crazy to think about in

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Speaker 4: nineteen oh five, like any kind of eye surgery back then.

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Speaker 1: That's like buy an a lottery ticket every day for

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Speaker 1: a week and winning.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Then in nineteen oh six we have a French surgeon

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Speaker 3: Matteo Jubilet who attempted to save two patients' lives they

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Speaker 3: were suffering from renal failure by transplanting goat kidney into

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Speaker 3: one of the patients and a pig kidney into the other,

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Speaker 3: and they died shortly thereafter work. And I think what

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Speaker 3: the big takeaway is from a lot of these early

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Speaker 3: examples is that these organs are incredibly specific. They and

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Speaker 3: this just goes into the whole idea of being on

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Speaker 3: a transplant list or like you have to get just

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Speaker 3: the right one. It has to match your type of

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Speaker 3: as to there are a lot of factors involved that

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Speaker 3: you know will make this work, otherwise your body will

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Speaker 3: literally reject.

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Speaker 1: This organ right in this There were other attempts through

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Speaker 1: the thirties and on and on up and with each

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Speaker 1: of these, with each of these failures, there were hard

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Speaker 1: lessons learned, and it looked like it maybe it might

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Speaker 1: be something that was just going to be beyond the

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Speaker 1: bounds of reliable medical technology and science, at least that

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Speaker 1: is until the first successful organ transplant in December of

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Speaker 1: nineteen fifty four.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it was this guy named Ronald Herrick. He was

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Speaker 4: the first one. He had a successful transplant procedure. Pretty awesome.

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Speaker 4: It was. It's a cool story too, actually, and there's

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Speaker 4: a house Stuff Works article on organ donation where you

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Speaker 4: can find this story. He had a twin brother named Richard,

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Speaker 4: and one of his you know, his kidneys were failing,

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Speaker 4: and his brother basically decided, well, what if I give

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Speaker 4: one of my kidneys? And the doctor saw this was

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Speaker 4: really interesting because it hadn't been successful in the past,

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Speaker 4: but because their genetics were so close, almost identical, they

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Speaker 4: thought perhaps it would work. So the doctors didn't have

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Speaker 4: much faith that this would actually be carried out. Even

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Speaker 4: though you know, they have faith in themselves and being

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Speaker 4: able to make the procedure happen, they don't think it

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Speaker 4: will the organ itself will take. The great thing is

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Speaker 4: that it did work. Both of them survives and they

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Speaker 4: went on to live happily ever after, right or did they?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I mean that part. We're kidding on that part. No

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Speaker 1: one does that. But they did. Okay, Yeah, they did great,

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Speaker 1: they both recovered at least.

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Speaker 3: What a Debbie Downer you are, sir?

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Speaker 1: Uh, yeah, I guess I'm more what's a word for

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Speaker 1: downer that starts with a bee? So we could do

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Speaker 1: it like Benji bad attitude.

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Speaker 3: No, that's terrible. Well, that's why you're right.

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Speaker 1: You're absolutely right, and there's no reason to be down,

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Speaker 1: is there? Because this worked very well and after this

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Speaker 1: watershed moment, more and more successful transplants took place. So today,

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Speaker 1: at least in the US and really globally, if you

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Speaker 1: are someone with enough money and enough luck and enough opportunity,

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Speaker 1: you really can get a second chance at life with

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Speaker 1: a new organ. We cannot emphasize how amazing this is

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Speaker 1: and how technology still since I'm going to try to

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Speaker 1: be positive for the rest of the podcast, Nation, I

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Speaker 1: appreciate it to you. We still know that this medical

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Speaker 1: technology continues to evolve at a breakneck pace, you know,

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Speaker 1: doing amazing things. If a child, for a child born

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Speaker 1: today the day you're hearing this, by the time they

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Speaker 1: are eighteen, it is quite possible that they will be

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Speaker 1: able to buy grown organs grown in a lab, not

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Speaker 1: taken from another person, or to take possibly organs from

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Speaker 1: genetically modified animals or entirely entirely synthetic ye things. However,

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Speaker 1: we're not there yet at this point, yours, the best

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Speaker 1: and only way that you can get another organ is

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Speaker 1: by getting it from another person. Many people volunteer to

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Speaker 1: donate their own organs, like the twin we mentioned earlier,

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Speaker 1: either a kidney or you know, you can live with

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Speaker 1: one kidney, like you said, Noel.

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Speaker 4: You can chop a liver almost in half and it

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Speaker 4: will regenerate.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it'll regenerate almost as full size. Or if

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Speaker 1: you are a person with the driver's license in the US,

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Speaker 1: you are incentivized to be an organ donor could you

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Speaker 1: get a little discount yep. And what they do is

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Speaker 1: they just say, well, if the worst thing happens, the

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Speaker 1: worst thing for you at least, then something great might

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Speaker 1: happen for some other people.

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Speaker 4: Which is a pretty terrifying thought. But at the same time,

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Speaker 4: you know, if you're dead, depending on your religious and

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Speaker 4: spiritual beliefs, then hey, who cares, somebody else can use it.

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Speaker 3: You can't take them with you.

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Speaker 1: You know, And arguably you could say this is a

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Speaker 1: form of extending someone's life if you are if a

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Speaker 1: piece of you lives on in someone else.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, The pharaohs of Egypt would probably disagree though, I mean,

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Speaker 3: they had all of their organs pulled out and put

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Speaker 3: into jars and preserved. Yeah, in their tombs, you know,

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Speaker 3: so that they could have them in the actual life.

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Speaker 1: And that was part of the that was part of

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Speaker 1: the belief system at the time, you know. And there

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Speaker 1: there's still some there's still some religions and belief systems

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Speaker 1: that do not allow for organ donation, like the aroma

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Speaker 1: don't practice it because they believe you need your physical

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Speaker 1: body and all its components for at least the first year.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, because you have to retrace your steps.

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Speaker 1: Right, and now we know, now we know that this

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Speaker 1: this stuff does work. It gives the average person a

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Speaker 1: chance to be a hero and should be quite candid,

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Speaker 1: this is a situation where people need heroes. Between nineteen

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Speaker 1: ninety eight and two thousand and eight, there were more

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Speaker 1: than ninety one thousand living donations. It's donations from somebody

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Speaker 1: who gave theory will survive after. In two thousand and six,

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Speaker 1: nearly forty six percent of organ donors we're living donors.

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Speaker 1: So that accounts for about twenty one point six percent

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Speaker 1: of all organs donated. So, like Matt you said, you

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Speaker 1: can donate part your liver and live and donate part

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Speaker 1: of a lung, part of your pancreas. You can donate

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Speaker 1: a whole kidney, yeah, or part of your intestines.

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Speaker 4: You do have to be in pretty darn good health

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Speaker 4: to make a donation like this. Oh. I mean, it

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Speaker 4: is true that there are only a few prohibitive factors

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Speaker 4: that could stop you certain diseases, being HIV positive or

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Speaker 4: something like that. But you know, still, I don't think

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Speaker 4: anyone would want my liver, probably, Ben.

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Speaker 3: Do we have a stat about how often direct family

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Speaker 3: members are the ones that are doing the donation, because

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Speaker 3: that would just seem to me that would sure save

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Speaker 3: a lot of this process lists and the waiting lists

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Speaker 3: search for compatibility.

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Speaker 1: Well, we don't have that exactly, but we do know

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Speaker 1: according to the American Transplant Foundation that of about five

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Speaker 1: thousand living donations that occur that they watched, only one

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Speaker 1: in four of the donors was not biologically related to

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Speaker 1: the recipient, at least from their perspective.

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Speaker 3: Interesting.

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Speaker 1: It's not legal to buy or sell organs here in

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Speaker 1: the US for transplant, but it is legal to buy

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Speaker 1: and sell them for research purposes. So as long as

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Speaker 1: you say, well, sorry, uncle Sam, this is not for me.

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Speaker 1: I am doing a science project, and I We've got

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Speaker 1: a couple more stats if you want. According to the

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Speaker 1: Department of Health and Human Services, more than two thousand

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Speaker 1: new names are added to the national waiting list for

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Speaker 1: organ transplants and to get that every month and every day,

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Speaker 1: the day you are listening to this podcast, ladies and gentlemen,

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Speaker 1: in the US alone, about eighteen people die while waiting

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Speaker 1: for an organ transplant. So these people, these voluntary donors,

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Speaker 1: living or dead, are doing terrific, wonderful and much needed.

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Speaker 4: Work and we need more.

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Speaker 1: But here's the thing, not all of these donors are volunteers.

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Speaker 3: As it turns out, quite a few of them are victims.

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Speaker 3: And we'll get more into that after we take a

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Speaker 3: quick break.

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Speaker 4: So, as you can tell from the statistics we covered

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Speaker 4: earlier everything that we've talked about thus far, the need

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Speaker 4: for organs far outweighs the supply for organs.

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Speaker 3: And what happens then there is a basically a golf

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Speaker 3: that needs to be filled. And as we know, when

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Speaker 3: there's money to be made, people are going to come

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Speaker 3: along and fill that golf.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, when's when supply and demand don't meet, there's going

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Speaker 4: to be profit. And that's what we see.

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Speaker 1: And the question becomes a essential you know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: This is not well, I steal a Selica or an

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00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:11,199
Speaker 1: Lantra from someone because I want a Selica or an Lantra,

436
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Speaker 1: or God forbid a Honda Odyssey, which is not worth it.

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Speaker 1: This is a question of survival. If you are sitting

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Speaker 1: next to someone listening to this, and you are close

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00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 1: to that person, look at each other. What would you

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Speaker 1: do to keep them alive? Would you donate your kidney?

441
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:34,240
Speaker 1: If given the opportunity, would you find them a heart?

442
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 1: The average heart will beat approximately two point five billion

443
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 1: times in the course of an average person's life. So

444
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:45,720
Speaker 1: now you need to start thinking about the age of

445
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:50,120
Speaker 1: this heart you would procure, because honestly, you'll get more

446
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:56,120
Speaker 1: mileage the younger. That transplant source is Wow, Ben Well,

447
00:25:56,200 --> 00:26:01,159
Speaker 1: it's true. Unfortunately, it's true, and let's be honest. This

448
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,919
Speaker 1: is just my personal opinion here. Some of the results

449
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 1: of this come about because the American medical system is

450
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:15,159
Speaker 1: a joke without a punchline. People are dying due to

451
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:21,640
Speaker 1: a phenomenally byzantine system of jacked up prices for operations

452
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 1: and medicines that would be affordable in many other countries.

453
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 1: This is again, this is just my opinion, but there

454
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 1: are numerous facts that point to the point to a

455
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 1: very poor performance on the part of the US medical

456
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 1: system in comparison to the rest of the developed world.

457
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:44,239
Speaker 1: I mean, if we are considering the entire population, if

458
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 1: we're only considering the people who can pay the price tag,

459
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 1: then the US medical system is the best in the world.

460
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:51,920
Speaker 3: And look at the examples. You see if people that

461
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:53,680
Speaker 3: you know are in the hospital for three or four

462
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 3: days and then their insurance gets cut off or like

463
00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:59,119
Speaker 3: you know, it maxes out, and they're left with like

464
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 3: a ten thousand dollars bill for being the hospital for

465
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:03,120
Speaker 3: a few days just so they can.

466
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:06,440
Speaker 4: Breathe for a fifty thousand dollars bill of course, yeah.

467
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 1: Exactly right, and then be in debt for the rest

468
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 1: of their lives or bankrupt. Right. So this I mean,

469
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 1: and that maybe is a subject. I know, it's a

470
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 1: touchy one for a lot of people. So that will

471
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 1: perhaps be a subject of a future show. I don't

472
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:22,119
Speaker 1: know what you guys think. And of course we can

473
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:25,479
Speaker 1: anticipate the arguments. People say, well, medical care is not free.

474
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:28,359
Speaker 1: That is true, and that's something we can explore in

475
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 1: a future episode. Right now, in the case of kidneys,

476
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 1: which are by far one of the most common organs

477
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:42,120
Speaker 1: transplant donated harvested traffic, only seventeen percent of the annual

478
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 1: demand is being met, and due to again skyrocketing medical

479
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 1: cost the vast majority of US citizens have virtually no

480
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:55,480
Speaker 1: way of affording a living donor. So make no mistake,

481
00:27:55,640 --> 00:28:01,240
Speaker 1: legal organ transplants, like many other operations, are are overwhelmingly

482
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 1: out of the reach of a lot of people.

483
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:07,400
Speaker 3: Not to mention, maybe you're just so far down the list. Yes,

484
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 3: it's just the time of this is not on your side.

485
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 3: People will do desperate things in times of this kind

486
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 3: of stress.

487
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a really good point, because even if we're

488
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 1: talking about people who have enough capital or income to

489
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:25,680
Speaker 1: to have the best medical care in the world right

490
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:28,160
Speaker 1: and maybe survive as long as they can on the list,

491
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 1: then there's some things you know, you just can't legally buy.

492
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 1: So imagine, imagine, Matt, that you are a multi millionaire,

493
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 1: but nope, but you can't. You can't afford this legal avenue,

494
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 1: and that leaves you with two options.

495
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, I guess I would die or I would find

496
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 4: a way to get one.

497
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 1: Guess which one people tend to choose.

498
00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 4: I'm guessing they just take kidneys.

499
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 3: According to the UN, there are three broad categories of

500
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 3: organ trafficking. Number one are cases involving traffickers that force

501
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 3: or actually deceive victims into giving up an organ. Example

502
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 3: might be a person's kidnapped, their organ is harvested.

503
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 1: Or or this is the one that everyone knows from

504
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 1: the movies, right, you meet a charming stranger, a great

505
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 1: cool guy or girl or group of people, and you

506
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 1: party a little harder than you intended and the next

507
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 1: thing you know.

508
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, you wake up in a tub of ice in

509
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 4: the hotel and there's some staples on your side.

510
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:45,960
Speaker 3: That's chilling. I talked to you guys about this before

511
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 3: the show the movie Sympathy for Mister Vengeance. I think

512
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 3: this is a it's a really really dark movie. It's

513
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 3: beautifully made, though not but it's for kids. But it

514
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 3: involves this very thing, and it points to some of

515
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 3: the conditions that might lead someone to enter into an

516
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 3: even an agreement with these type of folks. Where one

517
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 3: of the main characters has a sister who needs I

518
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:11,480
Speaker 3: believe it's a kidney, and she's on this waiting list

519
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 3: but it's not working out and it's taking too long

520
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 3: and she's not doing well. So the main character finds

521
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 3: these gangsters and agrees with them, like, Okay, I'm gonna

522
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 3: you're gonna take out my kidney and we're going to

523
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 3: do the operation. Instead, they knock him out, take his

524
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 3: kidney and his money, and disappear.

525
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 1: Right, And this is common enough to be a trope

526
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 1: in a lot of fiction as far as how often

527
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 1: it actually happens that way in real life, it's it's

528
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 1: tough to find proof. But that's not the only case.

529
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 1: You said, there are three categories.

530
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 3: Right, So the second category involves cases where victims formally

531
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 3: or informally agree to sell an organ and then are

532
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 3: cheated out of money. So the thing for the film

533
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 3: is almost a combination of the two. Are then cheated

534
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 3: out of the money or paid less than promised and threatened,

535
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 3: you know totally.

536
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 1: You'll take what we give you exactly. You're lucky to

537
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 1: leave with your life.

538
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:10,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, that's the thing. These are opportunistic, manipulative

539
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 3: folks that are that are doing these things. They are

540
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:16,240
Speaker 3: finding people in their time of need, their time of

541
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 3: most desperation. Yeah, and you know, turning the screws on

542
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 3: the criminals.

543
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 4: Yeah. Well, and sometimes it even does happen voluntarily where

544
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 4: someone will fly to Turkey or something to give their

545
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 4: their kidney four or five thousand dollars, you know, four

546
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 4: ten thousand dollars US. Meanwhile, the person who is taking

547
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 4: the kidney is going to make ten times that, twenty

548
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 4: times that.

549
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, And as as problematic as Ben said as are

550
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 3: medical system is at least you do have some assurances

551
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 3: and you know everything's documented and you know nothing like that.

552
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 1: Whatever happen, and hopefully your chances of survival are much

553
00:31:56,640 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 1: higher because it's cleaner and they're they're better standards for care.

554
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 1: But there's there's another thing we have to say here.

555
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 1: I don't want to jump I have too far other

556
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 1: than to say there is a vast criminal element to this.

557
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 1: And this is something that happens. Whenever something is illegal

558
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 1: the people are going to do. There will be, as

559
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 1: you said, no opportunistic people involved. Imagine having a gambling debt.

560
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 1: You're in over your head, you have no hope of

561
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 1: paying this off within the time allotted to you. And

562
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 1: then Noel, let's say I have a gambling debt to you.

563
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 1: Let's say what's a massive amount of money to owe

564
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 1: for gambling.

565
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:40,480
Speaker 3: One million dollars.

566
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 1: Okay, So I had a wild night in Macau, and

567
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 1: now I owe you, the shadowy leader of the underworld,

568
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 1: one million dollars. And you told me I have forty

569
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 1: eight hours, it's our forty seven, and I'm dragged you

570
00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 1: into whatever palatial you have sure, And and then you

571
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 1: make it very clear that you're you're fine with killing me,

572
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 1: but you give me a chance. You tell me I

573
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 1: can give up, you know, my kidney or part of

574
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:18,520
Speaker 1: my lung or my liver. And of course people are

575
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 1: going to say yes to something like that. It's horrific,

576
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 1: but they will. And then there's the third case, which

577
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 1: to me is one of the saddest.

578
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 4: I have to say. Guys, in this example, it would

579
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:30,959
Speaker 4: be it would make a lot more sense if it

580
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 4: was maybe one hundred thousand dollars, because they would make

581
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 4: that if you owed a million dollars.

582
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, they would just kill me and take and harvest.

583
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 4: Because they could. They could pretty much make that from

584
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 4: your entire body.

585
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 1: I would go to the chop shop. Yikes, don't do it, No,

586
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 1: don't do it. Tell me, I've never started gambling. I've

587
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:54,520
Speaker 1: never gambled, and I don't intend to start now because

588
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 1: I am frightened by this scenario.

589
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 3: No, it's true. I mean even you know, I've played

590
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 3: some slots here and there, but same don't think I

591
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 3: could ever.

592
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 1: Go bewn that. I thought you were about to say. No,

593
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 1: it's true. I guess I would have.

594
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:09,799
Speaker 3: To do that. Well, you know, when faced with that

595
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 3: situation and I have to take care of my investment.

596
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:17,760
Speaker 1: Oh oh yeah, Ice Cold, I respect you though. Number three,

597
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:19,880
Speaker 1: This is perhaps one of the saddest.

598
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 4: Yes. The third example is when a vulnerable person receives

599
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 4: treatment for some ailment, perhaps it's real, perhaps it's not,

600
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:33,120
Speaker 4: only to find when they come out of surgery or

601
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 4: whatever procedure they went through, they find that one or

602
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 4: more of their organs have been removed during the operation,

603
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:44,239
Speaker 4: and it ranges from what organs are taken in this procedure.

604
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 4: And this is one of the more terrifying. I mean,

605
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:52,280
Speaker 4: these are all terrifying, but this one to me. Trusting

606
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,480
Speaker 4: someone going into a surgery or something like that only

607
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:58,720
Speaker 4: to find that something completely different has happened. Yikes.

608
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 3: And we're talking about completely enfranchised people that have no recourse,

609
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:06,359
Speaker 3: migrant workers, homeless people, the impoverished, the illiterate. They are

610
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:09,960
Speaker 3: just easy targets for these folks who want to prey

611
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:13,759
Speaker 3: on the fact that they have no one to protect them.

612
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 1: And they can be any age, they can be any

613
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:21,200
Speaker 1: you know, cree, race, ethnicity, whatever sort of label you

614
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 1: want to attach to an example of the human species.

615
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 3: As long as they got the goods and by that

616
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 3: I mean kidneys, livers, any of these organs that are

617
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:32,480
Speaker 3: you know, ultimately pretty easy to remove in a bench,

618
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 3: which is horrifying in and of itself, especially when you

619
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 3: consider that you know, these are not done in sanitary conditions,

620
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 3: These are not done.

621
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:43,239
Speaker 4: In clean rooms, you know, well, yeah, And the fact

622
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 4: that they could be removed and then you can still

623
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:49,919
Speaker 4: live depending on how you were treated after and what

624
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 4: type of process they took to actually remove it and

625
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 4: then fix you up, which is that to me is awful.

626
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:02,719
Speaker 4: Can you imagine living after that just happening to you,

627
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 4: the PTSD that you would experience in your life.

628
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:09,240
Speaker 1: I personally would be thrilled to be alive, sure, because

629
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:11,040
Speaker 1: I think at the time and money you save if

630
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:17,280
Speaker 1: you're working with volume on sutures, on cleaning.

631
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 3: Up are you saying I mean, I'm trying to just

632
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 3: figure out why it's in their best interest to leave

633
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:27,800
Speaker 3: these people alive in the first place.

634
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:30,239
Speaker 1: I think that a lot of it is because it

635
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 1: is a transaction, you know, So if it's a transaction,

636
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 1: then it's ultimately a business. And if the business model

637
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:45,160
Speaker 1: is you know, if you establish consistency, people will only

638
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:48,759
Speaker 1: come back to you or only go pay you if

639
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:51,439
Speaker 1: they know they're going to live. Yeah. So if we're

640
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 1: around the street turns out that you just kill people

641
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:57,319
Speaker 1: and take their organs, which we do have cases of that,

642
00:36:57,719 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 1: then people aren't going to go to you with their

643
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:04,440
Speaker 1: debts or their blood money of one sort or another.

644
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 1: And okay, so we said earlier that kidneys make up

645
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:13,239
Speaker 1: seventy five percent of this illegal organ trade. But do

646
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 1: you know why. It's not just because you can take

647
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 1: one and sell, although I think that's a huge part

648
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:23,799
Speaker 1: of it. It's also because of the rising rates of diabetes,

649
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 1: high blood pressure, heart problems and such across the globe.

650
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, so you need those the filtration system that are

651
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 4: the kidneys which are failing across the board.

652
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:38,320
Speaker 1: And for everyone who might think this is a strange

653
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 1: thing for us to cover, we would argue that this

654
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:46,800
Speaker 1: is an example of not one, but multiple international conspiracies,

655
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:50,720
Speaker 1: not theories. And again, a conspiracy just means people working

656
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:56,920
Speaker 1: together in secret toward a common goal. Organized crime necessitates conspiracies.

657
00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:01,719
Speaker 1: This involves recruiters, people who transport or the patient, underground,

658
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:07,399
Speaker 1: medical staff, middleman contractors, buyers, and banks that store the

659
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 1: organs because remember, organs don't keep and a lot of

660
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:16,239
Speaker 1: people throughout the history of organ transplants have died because

661
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 1: an organ was pulled from a cadaver that have been

662
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:23,799
Speaker 1: dead for hours. You know, So this stuff is on

663
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:26,840
Speaker 1: ice and on the good side, on the legal side,

664
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:32,880
Speaker 1: there's this amazing logistics chain of of how people move

665
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:37,440
Speaker 1: an organ and keep it stored on ice across the

666
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:41,320
Speaker 1: country or across the ocean to save someone's life. And

667
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 1: this can be a good thing.

668
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 4: It can be a good thing for the law side.

669
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:49,879
Speaker 4: The problem is, because these networks are so large, when

670
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 4: they get exposed, it will a lot of times be

671
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:57,359
Speaker 4: one arm or one one section of a network, and

672
00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:00,520
Speaker 4: you never really get to see the larger picture because

673
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 4: you know, when you're operating underground like this, you just

674
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 4: pick up shop and get out of there. If there

675
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:07,360
Speaker 4: isn't a good paper trail.

676
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, So let's talk about some facts about organ trafficking.

677
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:19,360
Speaker 1: So I'll start with one. Organ trafficking accounts for five

678
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:23,240
Speaker 1: to ten percent of all kidney transplants worldwide.

679
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 3: Is mind blowing to me.

680
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:30,440
Speaker 1: That's like saying illegal car sales account for ten percent

681
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 1: of all cars purchased, you know in the US.

682
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:37,160
Speaker 3: Or some you just wouldn't ever associate that, I don't know.

683
00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:38,240
Speaker 3: Who is interesting?

684
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:42,440
Speaker 4: And according to the WHO, the World Health Organization, the

685
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:46,040
Speaker 4: illegal trade and kidneys has risen to a level that

686
00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:50,600
Speaker 4: an estimated ten thousand black market operations involving purchased human

687
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:54,480
Speaker 4: organs now take place every year. And according to a

688
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 4: couple of organizations organ Failure Solutions, Organs Watch, and EESOT,

689
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:03,879
Speaker 4: the typical organ donor is a male about twenty eight

690
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 4: point nine, let's say twenty nine years old, with an

691
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:11,239
Speaker 4: annual income of four hundred and eighty dollars, while the

692
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:14,799
Speaker 4: typical recipient is a male of about forty eight point

693
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 4: one years old with an annual income of fifty three

694
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 4: thousand dollars. So the discrepancy there between the donor and

695
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:25,240
Speaker 4: the recipient is pretty telling.

696
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:31,920
Speaker 1: And organs aren't just used for transplants. There's a demand

697
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:37,600
Speaker 1: for illicit experimentation from unethical scientists. Think of these as

698
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:40,080
Speaker 1: the modern version of resurrection men.

699
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:41,760
Speaker 4: Recerave robbers.

700
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:47,720
Speaker 1: Threat resurrection men were grave robbers, especially during a time

701
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:53,359
Speaker 1: when it was legal to experiment on cadavers for med

702
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:57,400
Speaker 1: schools and stuff, but it was illegal to procure the bodies.

703
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 1: So that's a chilling but not entirely inaccurate comparison. And

704
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:08,719
Speaker 1: then of course there are there are other body parts,

705
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:15,440
Speaker 1: such as bones or genitalia, that are used for magical.

706
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:19,080
Speaker 3: Rituals, and the profit margins here can be outrageous. In

707
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:22,800
Speaker 3: July of two thousand and nine, Levy Itzac Rosenbaum was

708
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:26,319
Speaker 3: arrested in Brooklyn for conspiring to arrange the sale of

709
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:29,680
Speaker 3: an Israeli citizen's kidney to an undercover FBI agent for

710
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:32,319
Speaker 3: one hundred and sixty thousand dollars. He said he'd been

711
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:36,120
Speaker 3: selling kidneys for ten years underground. He paid ten thousand

712
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 3: for a kidney and sold it for one hundred and

713
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:39,480
Speaker 3: sixty thousand.

714
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 4: And there are an unsettling number of examples of at

715
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:46,160
Speaker 4: least parts of networks that have been exposed to. Al

716
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:50,239
Speaker 4: Jazeera really recently put out a story I think in

717
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:55,720
Speaker 4: February about a small syndicate in Indonesia in this place

718
00:41:55,880 --> 00:42:00,960
Speaker 4: called Java, West Java, where this really small village that

719
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 4: had a population of thirty people, a large number of

720
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:07,319
Speaker 4: them sold their kidneys for around five thousand dollars each

721
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:12,719
Speaker 4: and it was being run out of a state hospital.

722
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:16,759
Speaker 4: Really crazy stuff like that. Just some bad people who

723
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:19,360
Speaker 4: are working with a couple other bad people inside a

724
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:22,759
Speaker 4: state run organization. A story from The Guardian in two

725
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:27,160
Speaker 4: thousand and nine discussed how some pathologists in Israel were

726
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:32,160
Speaker 4: harvesting organs from Palestinians and several others. That was in

727
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:35,839
Speaker 4: the nineteen nineties. It has ended officially at least, which

728
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:37,719
Speaker 4: is nice. And if you search for this kind of

729
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 4: this stuff, just put organ Harvesting Network into Google and

730
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:45,439
Speaker 4: then click on the news column and just go back,

731
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:48,719
Speaker 4: and it's prevalent. There's a lot of it.

732
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 1: And in neither of the cases that Matt just mentioned,

733
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 1: neither in Indonesia nor in Israel, were these state sanctioned things.

734
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:02,759
Speaker 1: These were under ground cabals operating and then they were

735
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:04,080
Speaker 1: eventually exposed.

736
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:05,919
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's almost always how it is.

737
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:10,640
Speaker 1: Except in the People's Republic of China and the People's

738
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:17,359
Speaker 1: Republic of China. You can see numerous accusations that say

739
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:24,080
Speaker 1: the government itself is harvesting organs from executed prisoners, or,

740
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:29,359
Speaker 1: as claimed in a PBS documentary from twenty fifteen, that

741
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:34,520
Speaker 1: the government is actually collecting organs from live prisoners or

742
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:40,000
Speaker 1: practitioners of a spiritual group, of a spiritual belief system

743
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:46,000
Speaker 1: called Follongong. The idea here is that China is arbitrarily

744
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 1: imprisoning this minority religious group and then torturing them, killing them,

745
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:55,560
Speaker 1: selling their organs, getting rich off what's called transplant tourism.

746
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:56,799
Speaker 3: Yep.

747
00:43:57,080 --> 00:43:59,040
Speaker 4: And again you can find it in the US, you

748
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 4: can find it in Brazil, in South Africa. It's this

749
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:04,440
Speaker 4: practice is occurring all over the globe.

750
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:08,560
Speaker 3: So you guys, why is this still going on? Why

751
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:10,120
Speaker 3: is this still so prevalent?

752
00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:15,000
Speaker 1: I would say there's several reasons. One of the big

753
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:19,040
Speaker 1: ones would be demand. And if we're saying demand, what

754
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 1: we need to look at will be the precipitous rise

755
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 1: of health conditions in the you know what, in the

756
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 1: world entire because there's this big stereotype of terribly unhealthy Americans, right,

757
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:39,600
Speaker 1: that stereotype has some truth in it. One in nine

758
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:42,799
Speaker 1: or twenty six million Americans have kidney disease and most

759
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:47,759
Speaker 1: probably don't know it, but obesity and diabetes and related

760
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 1: things are on the rise in the developing world as well,

761
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:59,000
Speaker 1: so there are more people with worse parts. And I

762
00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:02,799
Speaker 1: think as long as as that situation continues, until we

763
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:05,680
Speaker 1: can grow stuff in a vat yep, until we can

764
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:09,560
Speaker 1: all live a more healthy lifestyle. And I am not volunteering,

765
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:11,560
Speaker 1: by the way, because I'm setting my ways and they

766
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:17,359
Speaker 1: are terrible until we can iron man or chainey up

767
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:20,920
Speaker 1: some some suitable technological or mechanical replacement.

768
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:24,120
Speaker 4: Good. The problem, the problem with this stuff, ben is

769
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:28,680
Speaker 4: that it's still going to favor those that are wealthy

770
00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:32,880
Speaker 4: because it will cost money. It's a service either, you know,

771
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:36,560
Speaker 4: it's not easy to remove an organ and put it

772
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:36,920
Speaker 4: back in.

773
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:39,839
Speaker 3: Well. Sure, and as we start to develop, you know,

774
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:43,160
Speaker 3: more high tech ways of doing this, whether it's lab

775
00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:45,839
Speaker 3: grown or what have you, it's going to be like

776
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:49,600
Speaker 3: these hypothetical situations with life extension technology. Who is that

777
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:51,440
Speaker 3: going to be for, right, It's going to be for

778
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 3: the upper class, which is the class that is basically

779
00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:55,800
Speaker 3: in control.

780
00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:56,560
Speaker 4: M HM.

781
00:45:57,040 --> 00:46:01,800
Speaker 1: That's a harrowing point because on the surface, the legal

782
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:05,720
Speaker 1: organ trade. At least if you look at the rules

783
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:09,680
Speaker 1: or the guidelines for the list, they say that this

784
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:13,440
Speaker 1: a person's placement on the list is evaluated by factors

785
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:17,880
Speaker 1: that are entirely biologically related, severity of illness, time spent waiting,

786
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:22,840
Speaker 1: blood type, match potential, and at least according to American

787
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:27,360
Speaker 1: Transplant Foundation, income, race, and social status are never taken

788
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:34,359
Speaker 1: into account in the allocation process, which sounds like a

789
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:35,320
Speaker 1: beautiful thing.

790
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:39,920
Speaker 4: Until you take into account means to move yourself up

791
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:44,680
Speaker 4: on that list that aren't necessarily proven, right, but you know,

792
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:47,480
Speaker 4: colluding with someone who controls the list.

793
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 1: Or staying or you know, the means to participate in

794
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 1: this illegal market which is making hundreds of millions, hundreds

795
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:01,640
Speaker 1: of millions of dollars minimum, probably more in an estimated billion.

796
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:10,719
Speaker 1: And also also it's tough to find these sorts of

797
00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:16,320
Speaker 1: rings and wipe them out entirely. You know, people's survival

798
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:22,680
Speaker 1: instinct is good. The money it's just so profitable, right,

799
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:28,120
Speaker 1: And these are people often operating across international boundaries. So

800
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:35,560
Speaker 1: at this point, at that at this point, regardless of

801
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:41,120
Speaker 1: the various solutions to the various causes for this sort

802
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:43,759
Speaker 1: of situation, it just that it doesn't seem to be

803
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:44,239
Speaker 1: going away.

804
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:46,719
Speaker 4: This is really tough because in a lot of the

805
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:49,120
Speaker 4: black markets that we've looked at in the past, it

806
00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:52,799
Speaker 4: seems as though the legalization of whatever product that is

807
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:56,880
Speaker 4: being sold can kind of solve that black market because

808
00:47:57,280 --> 00:48:00,279
Speaker 4: it then becomes a free market thing. Okay, right, with

809
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:07,160
Speaker 4: this situation, you can't really legalize just the voluntary donation

810
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:11,440
Speaker 4: and receiving of organs from other humans, at least I

811
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:12,640
Speaker 4: can't foresee away.

812
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:14,960
Speaker 3: Well, it just a lot is left up to chance.

813
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 3: When you go the legal route, and it almost seems

814
00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:21,360
Speaker 3: like the illegal route, you might be more likely to

815
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 3: at least have the perception that you're going to get

816
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:26,440
Speaker 3: what you need, you know about having to jump through

817
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:29,399
Speaker 3: as many hoops or wait as long, and you have

818
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:31,040
Speaker 3: less uncertainty.

819
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:36,399
Speaker 1: And you could even hypothetically hire an entire network, so

820
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:39,880
Speaker 1: you could get the level of care that you would

821
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:45,040
Speaker 1: expect from a you know, from a top notch hospital.

822
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:51,359
Speaker 1: If you just buy a doctor and her his services

823
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:54,360
Speaker 1: for this one thing, if you just contracted out, it

824
00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:57,319
Speaker 1: would cost an enormous amount of money. But if a

825
00:48:57,360 --> 00:49:02,759
Speaker 1: new kidney gives you another nine years of life, a

826
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:04,480
Speaker 1: lot of people would see that as a as a

827
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:06,880
Speaker 1: fair trade, you know, and I'm sure that a lot

828
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:10,719
Speaker 1: of the people who are participating in this illegal organ

829
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:15,600
Speaker 1: trafficking are also doing it out of desperation and are

830
00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:21,239
Speaker 1: not monstrous people, you know, they are Possibly maybe it's

831
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:25,279
Speaker 1: more like a matchmaking thing where they meet someone who

832
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:30,439
Speaker 1: wants money and they have the money and they say, okay, here,

833
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:33,600
Speaker 1: let's make a deal. Maybe it is. It may well

834
00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:37,080
Speaker 1: be consensual many times, but also many times it is not.

835
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:39,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, because we also we've seen that this matches up

836
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:44,520
Speaker 4: with the act of human trafficking as well, right, I mean,

837
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:50,239
Speaker 4: where people will be treated like cattle and taken to

838
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:53,040
Speaker 4: another place where this will happen to them. It's been

839
00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:56,200
Speaker 4: reported on a lot by the un of how closely

840
00:49:56,239 --> 00:49:59,840
Speaker 4: linked human trafficking and organ trafficking is, so you know,

841
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:05,879
Speaker 4: it's weird how far ranging this process or how much

842
00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:08,560
Speaker 4: it encompasses. It's also one of these kind of devil's

843
00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:10,920
Speaker 4: bargain scenarios where you don't really.

844
00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:14,839
Speaker 3: Know the cost, the actual cost.

845
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:15,680
Speaker 4: Of what you're buying.

846
00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:18,840
Speaker 3: You know, you're paying money and maybe you can afford it,

847
00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:21,640
Speaker 3: and maybe you are a wealthy person that has decided

848
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:24,839
Speaker 3: to go this route because of the hoops required to

849
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:27,600
Speaker 3: get on a legal list to get you know, what

850
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:30,360
Speaker 3: you need when you need it. So maybe you decided

851
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:32,279
Speaker 3: to go this route because you feel like you can

852
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:34,919
Speaker 3: make it happen quicker for yourself or a loved one,

853
00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:40,160
Speaker 3: But you don't know who was manipulated, who was taken

854
00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:43,120
Speaker 3: advantage of to get that for you, So you are

855
00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:46,040
Speaker 3: becoming part of this problem by you know, feeding it.

856
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:51,879
Speaker 1: M Yeah, absolutely agree this. Okay, let's end on an

857
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:54,239
Speaker 1: up note if we can. I know this has been

858
00:50:54,760 --> 00:50:57,040
Speaker 1: a you know, I took that Debbie down or advice

859
00:50:57,080 --> 00:51:00,600
Speaker 1: to heart, so I'm trying to see some silver linings.

860
00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:07,800
Speaker 1: There is a huge financial incentive now for medical technologists

861
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:12,960
Speaker 1: and for inventors to create and geneticist as well to

862
00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:17,400
Speaker 1: create some sort of viable alternative, because even if the

863
00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:23,680
Speaker 1: illegal organ trafficking networks expand and expand even more so

864
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:29,359
Speaker 1: in size, we're at a point where taking things from

865
00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:32,840
Speaker 1: one human and putting them in another is probably not enough.

866
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:35,319
Speaker 1: So what we're going to need to do as a

867
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:39,480
Speaker 1: species is to create a viable alternative, and people are

868
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:43,719
Speaker 1: working around the clock to do so. So this situation

869
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:48,799
Speaker 1: may become eventually a thing of the past. You know, eventually,

870
00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:55,319
Speaker 1: hopefully your children and your grandchildren will hear about this

871
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:59,959
Speaker 1: age and medicine and treat it with the same incredulity

872
00:52:00,680 --> 00:52:04,480
Speaker 1: that we used to treat stories of a world before

873
00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:05,240
Speaker 1: germ theory.

874
00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:08,000
Speaker 4: They used to take organs out of one person and

875
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:10,040
Speaker 4: put it in another person.

876
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:14,000
Speaker 1: And they used to use hands to type what why

877
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:16,680
Speaker 1: don't you just think it into your Google?

878
00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:19,319
Speaker 4: I think it is weird to think how long this

879
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:23,640
Speaker 4: conversation will last digitally. If the Internet stays around for

880
00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:27,480
Speaker 4: long enough, people might actually listen to this and go what.

881
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:32,439
Speaker 1: It's too scary? But yeah, we hope that. We hope

882
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:35,920
Speaker 1: that you found this episode worthwhile. Do you have Do

883
00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:41,520
Speaker 1: you have any thoughts on organ transplants ethically, physically, biologically?

884
00:52:41,719 --> 00:52:45,840
Speaker 4: Have you ever had an organ transplant or maybe donated

885
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:48,480
Speaker 4: one of your own? You want to write to us

886
00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:50,040
Speaker 4: and tell us about it, We would love to hear.

887
00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:50,839
Speaker 1: Yeah.

888
00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:52,600
Speaker 3: Have you ever made it to the end of the

889
00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:55,680
Speaker 3: organ trail without dying of dysentery?

890
00:52:56,120 --> 00:52:58,480
Speaker 1: I did once, but well I did several times. I

891
00:52:58,560 --> 00:53:00,800
Speaker 1: played on easy mode and I still lossome people.

892
00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:02,200
Speaker 3: You monster.

893
00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:06,720
Speaker 1: One guy broke a leg and then died of dysentery.

894
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:09,600
Speaker 3: Man, it was rough. Dysentery I think is like the

895
00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:12,319
Speaker 3: base level, and then there's some other stuff.

896
00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:16,240
Speaker 4: Okay, we really had to bring it back there and all.

897
00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:17,400
Speaker 1: I think we should.

898
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:20,319
Speaker 3: I really just trying to lighten things up a little bit. Guys,

899
00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:22,560
Speaker 3: this got pretty got pretty pretty dark here.

900
00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:24,680
Speaker 1: I you know, I want to play it again and

901
00:53:24,719 --> 00:53:28,440
Speaker 1: then name members of our party, like after after you

902
00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:31,080
Speaker 1: guys and some of our listeners. But I'm afraid of

903
00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:33,120
Speaker 1: you know, what am I going to do if one

904
00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:36,400
Speaker 1: of you guys doesn't make it over the river? You know?

905
00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:38,800
Speaker 3: Well, speaking of parties, let's have a shout out corner Party,

906
00:53:39,120 --> 00:53:40,640
Speaker 3: shut Out Corner.

907
00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:47,520
Speaker 4: Our first shout out goes to Dakota, who works at

908
00:53:47,560 --> 00:53:50,919
Speaker 4: the postal service and listens to our show all delivering mail.

909
00:53:51,239 --> 00:53:54,120
Speaker 4: That's kind of cool, Dakota. Let us know that watch

910
00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:58,759
Speaker 4: Mojo often uses our videos as a kind of source

911
00:53:58,880 --> 00:54:01,160
Speaker 4: material for their own YouTube channel, which is kind of

912
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:03,839
Speaker 4: what we do with other YouTube channels as well. We'll

913
00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:07,719
Speaker 4: use references and but we did some checking and they

914
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:11,560
Speaker 4: do give us on screen credit with text, so we're

915
00:54:11,600 --> 00:54:15,800
Speaker 4: totally cool with that. And last thing, he Dakota wanted

916
00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:19,160
Speaker 4: us to say hello to Long John and I don't

917
00:54:19,160 --> 00:54:22,040
Speaker 4: know who that is, but it's it's Dakota's friend the

918
00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:22,560
Speaker 4: Watch Budget.

919
00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:23,839
Speaker 3: They also, I think they did a list a while

920
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:28,320
Speaker 3: back where they had different conspiracy type shows and.

921
00:54:28,239 --> 00:54:31,359
Speaker 4: We will yeah YouTube conspiracy for you list. So Ben

922
00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:34,040
Speaker 4: Bolan was and Matt and Matt Frederick we were both

923
00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:34,560
Speaker 4: on that list.

924
00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:38,759
Speaker 1: We were guys. We were all on the list. And

925
00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:41,759
Speaker 1: next we have Matt s on Twitter. Matt, you said,

926
00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:44,600
Speaker 1: have you considered doing an episode on the theory that

927
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:48,680
Speaker 1: we are living in a simulation? Matt, you also sent

928
00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:52,680
Speaker 1: Matt S. You also sent a video of Ella Musk

929
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:55,760
Speaker 1: discussing this topic, which you, Matt f I am sure

930
00:54:55,960 --> 00:54:56,760
Speaker 1: enjoyed immensely.

931
00:54:56,920 --> 00:54:57,160
Speaker 3: I did.

932
00:54:57,239 --> 00:54:59,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think I shared it with you guys. Maybe

933
00:54:59,400 --> 00:55:01,800
Speaker 4: I didn't, Maybe we just talked about it. It's the

934
00:55:01,840 --> 00:55:05,040
Speaker 4: one where Elon Musk is asked a question about simulated

935
00:55:05,120 --> 00:55:08,960
Speaker 4: universe theory and he basically says, we have a one

936
00:55:09,239 --> 00:55:13,080
Speaker 4: in one billion chance of existing in base reality, which

937
00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:15,759
Speaker 4: if you dig into it a little bit, it's a

938
00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:17,719
Speaker 4: little off. His numbers are a little off, but it's

939
00:55:17,719 --> 00:55:20,360
Speaker 4: still fascinating to think that one of the richest humans

940
00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:21,680
Speaker 4: on the planet believes that.

941
00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:24,719
Speaker 3: Next one, we have one via Facebook from Corey C.

942
00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:27,920
Speaker 3: Thanks for keeping me hip to all the neat, strange

943
00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:30,680
Speaker 3: and weird things you guys cover. Then we have a

944
00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:34,239
Speaker 3: little hashtag party here. Hashtags cadouche hashtag all Hail Our

945
00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:37,960
Speaker 3: age less Overlord Ben hashtag bag of Badger's hashtag the

946
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:40,880
Speaker 3: only metal is creatle of filth. Hashtag give Matt his

947
00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:43,879
Speaker 3: boat back? Hashtag tell Frank I said hi?

948
00:55:44,520 --> 00:55:44,800
Speaker 4: Yeah?

949
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:46,640
Speaker 3: Is this someone that knows Frank? Yeah?

950
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:49,719
Speaker 4: You talked about Frank a couple of times. Okay, I

951
00:55:49,719 --> 00:55:52,000
Speaker 4: think you even mentioned you should say hi. Have you

952
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:53,920
Speaker 4: ever see Frank? See Frank say hi to him? He's

953
00:55:53,920 --> 00:55:54,200
Speaker 4: great guy.

954
00:55:54,239 --> 00:55:56,080
Speaker 3: Yeah. IM just wondering if this is someone that knows Frank,

955
00:55:56,160 --> 00:55:58,000
Speaker 3: Like in the real world, Frank does get around.

956
00:55:58,440 --> 00:55:59,520
Speaker 4: Uh maybe I don't.

957
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:03,560
Speaker 1: There men, Yeah, the many faces of Frank, the many

958
00:56:03,640 --> 00:56:07,080
Speaker 1: faces of Frank. And this thus ends our shout out

959
00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:16,120
Speaker 1: corner for today, and that's our classic episode for this evening.

960
00:56:16,239 --> 00:56:17,439
Speaker 1: We can't wait to hear your thoughts.

961
00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:18,839
Speaker 3: It's right. Let us know what you think. You can

962
00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:21,280
Speaker 3: reach us to the handle Conspiracy Stuff where we exist

963
00:56:21,320 --> 00:56:25,400
Speaker 3: on Facebook x and YouTube, on Instagram and TikTok Ork

964
00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:26,399
Speaker 3: Conspiracy Stuff Show.

965
00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:28,680
Speaker 4: If you want to call us dial one eight three

966
00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:33,960
Speaker 4: three std WYTK that's our voicemail system. You've got three minutes.

967
00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:36,200
Speaker 4: Give yourself a cool nickname and let us know if

968
00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:38,320
Speaker 4: we can use your name and message on the air.

969
00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:40,200
Speaker 4: If you got more to say than can fit in

970
00:56:40,200 --> 00:56:43,040
Speaker 4: that voicemail, why not instead send us a good old

971
00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:45,080
Speaker 4: fashioned email. We are the.

972
00:56:45,160 --> 00:56:48,320
Speaker 6: Entities to read every single piece of correspondence we receive.

973
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:52,319
Speaker 6: Be aware, yet not afraid. Sometimes the void writes back

974
00:56:52,560 --> 00:57:13,600
Speaker 6: conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

975
00:57:13,719 --> 00:57:15,800
Speaker 4: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production

976
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:20,439
Speaker 4: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

977
00:57:20,520 --> 00:57:23,360
Speaker 4: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.