1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:09,160 Speaker 1: Body balance, but Joseph s gotten more known only to God. 2 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:17,760 Speaker 1: Over the course of my career, I had the unfortunate 3 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:25,239 Speaker 1: responsibility on a couple of occasions to be in charge 4 00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: of the burial of unclaimed remains. We've gotten away from 5 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 1: cremation a number of years before because it creates problem. 6 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:42,159 Speaker 2: If you. 7 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 1: Cremate remains, you have nothing left, but there is still 8 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 1: an opportunity if you bury the remains, some essence might 9 00:00:54,360 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: still exist. And I know that seems is rather innocuous, 10 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 1: but if you're a family that has been missing your 11 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:15,039 Speaker 1: sixteen year old son or brother since nineteen seventy two, 12 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 1: it might mean the world to you to have something 13 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 1: that remains. Today, we're going to have a discussion about 14 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:33,760 Speaker 1: a young man who vanished in nineteen seventy two, and 15 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:38,960 Speaker 1: he has just now been identified in twenty twenty five. 16 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 1: But you know what, there's more to this mystery because 17 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 1: in this particular case, not only did he vanish, he 18 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 1: was a homicide. Open. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this 19 00:01:57,080 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 1: is body by brother Dave. We are in an interesting 20 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: place today. We are actually out on Long Island. We're 21 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:13,360 Speaker 1: here for the Hampton's who'd done it in Long Island, 22 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 1: New York and East Hampton, to be very specific. But 23 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 1: we are in the East Hampton Library and we're in 24 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 1: a rather special spot. I would argue that perhaps one 25 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 1: of the most well known pop stars of the seventies 26 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:37,399 Speaker 1: and into the eighties is the benefactor of the room 27 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 1: that we're in right now. Dave, I'll go ahead and 28 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:43,959 Speaker 1: let you tell us where we are and the equipment 29 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:47,640 Speaker 1: that we're actually working with today here. Who furnished it. 30 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 3: Billy Joel. There you go, Long Island native Billy Joel. 31 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 3: It's a most It's really amazing. You know, a lot 32 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:58,080 Speaker 3: of times when you have somebody that provides the backing 33 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:01,800 Speaker 3: to put together a room, they'll go cheap, you know, 34 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:03,839 Speaker 3: just because I got my name on it. I don't 35 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 3: worry about it. You know, you buy this on team 36 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 3: or something. 37 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 1: You know. 38 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:08,079 Speaker 2: This is not that. 39 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 3: This is top of the line everywhere, multiple digital and 40 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 3: recording options. I mean, it's uh, this is the best. 41 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:16,920 Speaker 3: This is better than study I use on a daily basis. 42 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:18,680 Speaker 3: So I think we might move here. 43 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, let's let's do it. I think I would like to. 44 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 1: We're like inside of a box. Yeah, our friends, you know, 45 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 1: and it's it's acoustically sound. I guess that that's what 46 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 1: can I actually say acoustically sound. Let's just say that 47 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 1: that all of everything has been taken into consideration in 48 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 1: this environment. Yeah, it's rather fascinating. I got to tell you. 49 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 1: It's an honor. And back to what you said. You know, 50 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 1: Billy Joel did not request that this booth be named 51 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 1: after him. You don't even know who actually supplied all 52 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 1: this unless you ask, oh wow, he didn't even have 53 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 1: to have his name on this thing. 54 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 2: That's cool. 55 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 1: So and it's a it's a great honor to be 56 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 1: here and certainly a great honor, particularly considered during the 57 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 1: case that we're going to present to you today, which 58 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 1: is absolutely heartbreaking and just something that actually came on 59 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 1: to our radar screen, and it involves our friends at 60 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 1: AUTHRAM down in the Woodlands, Texas and Dave what is 61 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 1: this victim's name, The shung Man. 62 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:24,360 Speaker 3: Jimmy Dollison went missing in nineteen seventy two. 63 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:26,920 Speaker 2: Now, Jimmy was sixteen years. 64 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 3: Old and they're not exactly sure when he went missing 65 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:35,920 Speaker 3: October November of seventy two. I don't know all the 66 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 3: ins and outs of the relationship and what was going 67 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:40,719 Speaker 3: on with family and everything else, but they were aware 68 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:44,560 Speaker 3: that he was missing and we're looking for him, and 69 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 3: sadly they were looking for him until really and truly 70 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 3: until this week. And now they did have a hint 71 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:56,479 Speaker 3: because of the technology and having to get information. But 72 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 3: the reality is, imagine anything if you were born before 73 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 3: nineteen seventy two, and imagine what you were doing in 74 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 3: the fall of nineteen seventy two. That family has been 75 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:11,039 Speaker 3: missing their brother, their son, you know, since then, and 76 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:14,479 Speaker 3: they didn't know did he just did he change his 77 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 3: name and go off and do something, Was he kidnapped? 78 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 2: What happened? 79 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 3: Well, we have this through author and because of course 80 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:27,040 Speaker 3: the remains were found, but they were not identified. This 81 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:30,240 Speaker 3: was a case that was one of our John Doe 82 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 3: victims for a number of years, and there were actually 83 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:36,960 Speaker 3: two different names used to identify him. He was known 84 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 3: as Garnet John Doe and Anderson County John Doe. This 85 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 3: out of Kansas, both those areas. Garnett is a town 86 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:48,279 Speaker 3: in Kansas, and it's happened in Anderson County. 87 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:51,280 Speaker 2: And so when the remains were found. 88 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:53,919 Speaker 3: Joe and I'm trying to think of what would happen 89 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:58,039 Speaker 3: then in nineteen seventy three. These remains are found April 90 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 3: of seventy three, And what are police going to do 91 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 3: first when they find remains and don't immediately know what 92 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 3: they're looking at. 93 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 1: Well, we're going to do and this even applies back then, 94 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 1: You're going to do an assessment geographically as to where 95 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 1: these remains, which obviously turn out to be Jimmy's remains, 96 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 1: are located and what kind of environment they're in. And 97 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 1: you know, the unfortunate thing about this case is that, 98 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:35,039 Speaker 1: you know, the KBI, which is the Kansas Bureau of Investigation, 99 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 1: has not released a tremendous amount of information. Here's here's 100 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:43,359 Speaker 1: something else that you know. I love history, Dave. The 101 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:52,720 Speaker 1: KBI is famous for having investigated the Cutler family homicides, 102 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:57,840 Speaker 1: of course from in Cold Blood fame, and so I've 103 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 1: always had an affinity for any time KBI pop up, 104 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: you know, and particularly as it relates to Truman Capode's 105 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 1: similar work on that book. But they have had this case. 106 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 2: Hey, can I say one quick thing? 107 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, if you have only heard about the book, 108 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 3: and I think you probably have if you're listening to 109 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 3: this podcast, but if you haven't read it, if you've 110 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 3: only read about the case, or about Truman Capodi or whatever. 111 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 3: Go read In Cold Blood. It is a remarkable read 112 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 3: on a horrific crime. I'll leave it at that. But 113 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 3: please don't just do a Wikipedia or a quick Google. 114 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 3: Go get the book and read the book. It's worth it. 115 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 1: I got to tell you that book is responsible and 116 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 1: to entice you even more, that book In Cold Blood 117 00:07:52,440 --> 00:08:01,680 Speaker 1: is actually regarded as the first true crime novel like book, 118 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 1: because you're taking a a an event which is rooted 119 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 1: in history, that is documented. It's not somebody's supposition or 120 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 1: anything like this. We're talking about Truman Capoti on the ground, 121 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 1: getting to know the families and the neighbors and all 122 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 1: of it, and even the KBI agents that hand that 123 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:24,520 Speaker 1: handled it, all the way up to the point in 124 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 1: time where, uh, where these two guys are charged, convicted, 125 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 1: and executed. He's actually in the room when they are hung. Uh. 126 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 1: If you get a chance, check it out. But it's 127 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 1: written like that. Uh, it's so compelling, and it brings 128 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 1: us to this land that Jimmy has disappeared in. Of course, 129 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 1: this case with In Cold Blood was out in the 130 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:54,560 Speaker 1: western part of Kansas, and this case is out of 131 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:59,439 Speaker 1: Kansas City, Kansas and in that area there. But back 132 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 1: to back to what we were saying earlier with relative 133 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 1: to Jimmy's remant remains being found out there, you would 134 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:11,120 Speaker 1: have to try to understand the environment in which he 135 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: has found And we've talked about this before day relative 136 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 1: to kind of geographic profiling. Is it a dump where 137 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 1: you have a body that is merely rolled out of 138 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:26,480 Speaker 1: a car or drug into a ditch or was Jimmy 139 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:30,960 Speaker 1: marched out into the woods killed in that location or 140 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 1: was it killed somewhere else and then taken off the 141 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:35,680 Speaker 1: road into the woods. And the kb I was not 142 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 1: really given out a lot of information from then. And 143 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 1: let me tell you why you talk about cold case. 144 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:45,440 Speaker 1: The cold case part of it where that authorm got 145 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:50,320 Speaker 1: involved in where he is unidentified, that was a cold case. 146 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:53,439 Speaker 1: That's that part of it shut down. But here's the 147 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:56,800 Speaker 1: thing that's so compelling about this, this an open home 148 00:09:56,880 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 1: side investigation, Dave. 149 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 3: There's no statute of limitations on. It's the one thing 150 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 3: that you cannot outlive. You know, well you cannot live it, 151 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 3: I mean, but you know they can. They will if 152 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:10,200 Speaker 3: the person is alive, they committed the crime a murder, 153 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:13,680 Speaker 3: they will do the time. But I'm looking at this 154 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:16,320 Speaker 3: from the standpoint of what when they find the body then? 155 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:19,080 Speaker 3: And this is kind of top of mind because of 156 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:23,079 Speaker 3: some shows we've done recently about decomposition. They mentioned they 157 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 3: being the KBI, that the remains that were found in 158 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 3: April of nineteen seventy three were decomposing remains. In the process, 159 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:36,319 Speaker 3: they didn't just find bones or whatever. They actually did 160 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 3: find a decomposing body. 161 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 2: Knowing that he was last. 162 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 3: Seen October November of the previous year, he's been missing 163 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:49,200 Speaker 3: for five months, give or take, and yet maybe six months, 164 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 3: and yet his remains are still decomposing. Is this where 165 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:58,559 Speaker 3: maybe he was being held captive and then killed and dumped. 166 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:01,440 Speaker 2: Or yeah, can you get any of that information out 167 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 2: of this. 168 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 1: That I think that there might be a possibility. However, 169 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 1: remember you had mentioned October or November, and he's wearing 170 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 1: a particular type of clothing, which we'll get into in 171 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 1: just a moment. But I think that it's it's it's 172 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:20,440 Speaker 1: a salient point here to try to understand was he 173 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:25,959 Speaker 1: killed elsewhere and brought to this location or did he 174 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:30,680 Speaker 1: die specifically in this location. Now he is dressed as 175 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:34,439 Speaker 1: if he is fighting off the cold, you know, and 176 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 1: you know Kansas gets you know, it gets very very cold. 177 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 1: But is it so cold that we're talking about wintertime? Well, 178 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:46,080 Speaker 1: if he's disappeared in October November, which is kind of 179 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 1: interesting to me, sixteen years old and they don't know 180 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 1: the specific time when he died or when he disappeared, 181 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: rather is kind of curious to me. Relative to that, 182 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:01,199 Speaker 1: I'm wondering about people's recollections, what kind of report was 183 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:03,839 Speaker 1: written at that point in time, you know, what was 184 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 1: kind of generated relative to this. It would be something 185 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 1: that we would have to try to explore further relative 186 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:17,679 Speaker 1: to the history of this case, going back in time, 187 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 1: when was Jimmy last physically seen alive and he's sixteen 188 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:24,560 Speaker 1: years old? Is he a high school student? Well, that's 189 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:27,439 Speaker 1: right in the heart of the school year at that 190 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 1: point in time. Or had he run away? And that 191 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 1: that brings us to this point. I think had he 192 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 1: run away, because they're being very nonspecific about the times 193 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:42,239 Speaker 1: involved here with October and November, that's certainly a possibility 194 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 1: that we would have to entertain. And since this is 195 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 1: an open homicide investigation, Dave, I'll ask you this question 196 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 1: that I've asked you on several other occasions. What in 197 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:57,120 Speaker 1: the world could a sixteen year old kid have done 198 00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 1: to someone to compel those individuals to take his life? 199 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:09,439 Speaker 1: You know, I don't understand what is it? What did 200 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 1: Jimmy have? What had he done? What would compel them 201 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 1: to want to end this young man's life and leave 202 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 1: him out in some isolated location where he's going to 203 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:38,840 Speaker 1: be decomposing and won't be seen from once and NNS David, 204 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 1: I'm going to shock you a statement here and tell 205 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:47,400 Speaker 1: you right up front that my view of this case, 206 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:52,200 Speaker 1: this is an abject failure on the part of the 207 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 1: authorities that were involved in this case in the very beginning. 208 00:13:56,679 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 1: And the reason I'm saying that is that Jimmy's remains 209 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:08,840 Speaker 1: when they were discovered, Yes, they were decomposing when they 210 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 1: were discovered. It's not like you had a young man 211 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 1: who was found nude and just cast a drift in 212 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:24,040 Speaker 1: the wilderness or out, you know, in an unpopulated area. 213 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:29,600 Speaker 1: That's that's not what we're talking about. They have got 214 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:33,479 Speaker 1: a very specific clothing description. 215 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 3: That's why I was wondering about this, Joe, how is 216 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 3: it possible that you've got a guy that goes missing 217 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 3: from this general area, and he's sixteen years old October 218 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 3: November seventy two. We're now talking April eighteenth of seventy three. 219 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 3: You've got a great description of the clothing that they 220 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 3: find on this unidentified body, and you're gonna tell me 221 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:01,240 Speaker 3: you can't come up with an idea that maybe it's 222 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 3: this guy that's missing from three miles away. 223 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, And not only not only do we have clothing 224 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 1: we have got I'm not going to call it a ward, 225 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 1: but we've got a significant amount of jewelry. 226 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 2: Very specific jewelry with a number on one of them. 227 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 3: Yeah. 228 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 2: I think it was seventy eight, Yeah, seventy eight. 229 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 1: And he's also wearing so he's wearing a ring with 230 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 1: the number seventy eight on it. And get this, y'all, 231 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 1: he's wearing two other rings, if I'm not mistaken, that 232 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 1: have crosses on them. Right, he is wearing a necklace 233 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 1: that is also a cross. I got to tell you. 234 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 1: With every element, and this is kind of standard in 235 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 1: human identification, with every element of specific identity that we have, 236 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 1: With each of each of those components, you're increasing the 237 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 1: probability that you're going to get somebody identified just through 238 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 1: the visual aspects of this or just their possessions alone. 239 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 1: I'd say, look, I'd say that some guy walking around 240 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 1: with a ring on a cross, I mean a ring 241 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 1: with a cross on it. Okay, you got one, I 242 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:13,320 Speaker 1: don't know, you know, maybe that's not possible. This kid 243 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 1: had three rings on David. And then what's the significance 244 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 1: of the number seventy eight? Why would you have the 245 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:22,920 Speaker 1: number seventy eight on a ring? Maybe it's something from 246 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:26,520 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy two that I'm not fully aware of. I 247 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 1: don't know what the significance of seventy eight is. But 248 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 1: because I don't know the significance of it doesn't make 249 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:36,560 Speaker 1: it insignificant. A matter of fact, it makes it very 250 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:41,240 Speaker 1: specific to me. I'm trying to understand where the failure 251 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:45,480 Speaker 1: came in with not notifying the public. 252 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 3: I'm trying to figure the same thing out. But more 253 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 3: than everything, the description on of the remains at the 254 00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 3: time the body was found, the remains are found. When 255 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 3: you've got a discription of clothing, jewelry, things like that, 256 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:05,800 Speaker 3: you're going to tell me, not one person that knew 257 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:09,040 Speaker 3: Jimmy Dallison could think of he had a number seventy eight, 258 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:10,879 Speaker 3: you know, of some type. 259 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 2: It's not like he was going for years at this point, Joe. 260 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 2: The body is found in months. 261 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:18,639 Speaker 3: Granted, I mean it's five six months after he was 262 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:20,640 Speaker 3: They don't even know exactly when he was last seen. 263 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:23,160 Speaker 3: That's for starters. I know it was a different time then, 264 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:27,440 Speaker 3: I do know that, But really, are we that undermanned 265 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:29,679 Speaker 3: and law enforcement back in nineteen seventy two in the 266 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:32,920 Speaker 3: fall the mom and dad know you know what, Maybe 267 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 3: I'm being too harsh, Joe, because back then, in nineteen 268 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:38,879 Speaker 3: seventy two, the Fall of seventy two, we did not 269 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:42,440 Speaker 3: have cell phones, beepers and things like that. We had 270 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:45,720 Speaker 3: a home phone. Unless your dad ran business out of 271 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 3: the house, you know, you only had one phone. I 272 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:49,720 Speaker 3: knew one guy that had two phones in the house 273 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:54,679 Speaker 3: back then. So if Jimmy left home to live with 274 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 3: somebody else at sixteen, I don't know if that's a 275 00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 3: regular thing in Kansas. I know it wasn't regular thing 276 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 3: for anybody I knew. But I'm trying to figure out 277 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 3: how disconnected the family was in terms of dealing with 278 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 3: the police. That you've got a child at sixteen who 279 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 3: now is not living at home with mom and dad, 280 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:17,879 Speaker 3: apparently when he goes missing, and that nobody in the 281 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:20,680 Speaker 3: family understands the value of this jewelry. That seems very 282 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:21,480 Speaker 3: specific to me. 283 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:26,960 Speaker 1: Well, let me throw another major failure at you relative 284 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:31,720 Speaker 1: to the relative to the players that are entering in 285 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:34,160 Speaker 1: and off of the stage here, and that's the news media, 286 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:38,119 Speaker 1: because I got to tell you, I'm thinking back right now. 287 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:41,359 Speaker 1: I think I read my first newspaper. I was always 288 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 1: fascinated with newspapers when I was a kid. I probably 289 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 1: read my first newspaper before I was looking at newspapers, 290 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 1: before I could actually even read. I'm sure that I 291 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 1: had a newspaper spread out on the floor before me, 292 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:04,560 Speaker 1: at least in nineteen sixty nine, taking silly putty and 293 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:09,600 Speaker 1: placing it on the paper and lifting the images off 294 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 1: of it and stretching the faces all over the place. 295 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:17,719 Speaker 1: So you're telling me that the newspapers in this area 296 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 1: could not be utilized in a manner in which you 297 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 1: could get this kid identified just based upon the clothing, 298 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 1: script and this jewelry. So it's a failure on the 299 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 1: part of local newspapers. We've got parents who we know 300 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:40,399 Speaker 1: reported him missing. It's not like they've fallen off the 301 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 1: face of the planet. They're missing their child. Back during 302 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:47,680 Speaker 1: that they think that he was missing during that's when 303 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 1: they called it in reported him missing, And so there's 304 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:54,600 Speaker 1: a major disconnect. I know that they had television stations 305 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 1: in Kansas City back during this period of time. You're 306 00:19:58,000 --> 00:19:59,400 Speaker 1: not going to be able to go because this would 307 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:01,800 Speaker 1: have been a big he would think about a sixteen 308 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:04,399 Speaker 1: year old this found decomposing out in the woods and 309 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:05,399 Speaker 1: he's got jewelry on. 310 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:08,879 Speaker 3: And the only thing that we were told now is 311 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:13,359 Speaker 3: they didn't they being law enforcement, they'd never mentioned how 312 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:20,680 Speaker 3: long the remains had been decomposing. But the entry into 313 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:24,240 Speaker 3: the National Missing and Unidentified Person Systems noted that he 314 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:27,879 Speaker 3: had been deceased two to four weeks before his remains 315 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 3: were found. So mom and dad report him missing in 316 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:33,320 Speaker 3: October or November. We don't even have an exact day 317 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 3: for when he was reported missing. We obviously have to 318 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:39,920 Speaker 3: think he wasn't with his parents when he went missing 319 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:41,720 Speaker 3: because they didn't know exactly when, So. 320 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:44,360 Speaker 2: Did he run away? And then. 321 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:49,679 Speaker 3: Then he's finding his way around Kansas and then two 322 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 3: to four weeks before his remains are found when he's 323 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:57,240 Speaker 3: still a missing person. I guess I'm having trouble thinking 324 00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 3: that a body has found that kind of matches a 325 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 3: description of a young man who has been reported missing 326 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:07,000 Speaker 3: in your home state. 327 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:11,680 Speaker 1: Well, you know you made the you made mentioned Dave 328 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:16,000 Speaker 1: of the fact that or of you're you're wondering, you're 329 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:21,040 Speaker 1: speculating as to whether or not whether or not he 330 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:25,080 Speaker 1: died at the moment in time when he went missing, 331 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:29,879 Speaker 1: or or had he been alive for a period of 332 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:35,480 Speaker 1: time after that October November from because we're talking April 333 00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:41,960 Speaker 1: April seventy three, and they're saying in the registry that 334 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:46,160 Speaker 1: low end he had been deceased. How long did they think? 335 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:48,760 Speaker 3: Two to four weeks is what it says in the registry, 336 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 3: And I'm thinking that doesn't match up with advanced decomposition. 337 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 1: Was he had he had he moved in with somebody 338 00:21:56,680 --> 00:22:00,720 Speaker 1: sixteen years old? I don't I don't know that's the case. 339 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:07,480 Speaker 1: But had he moved in with somebody, perhaps looking for shelter, 340 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:10,960 Speaker 1: looking for comfort, I don't know. And then all of 341 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:15,400 Speaker 1: a sudden they take issue with him and they decide 342 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:17,960 Speaker 1: to end his life and then take him out to 343 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 1: this location that would inhibit his discovery for this period 344 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:30,359 Speaker 1: of time. It's a fascinating thing to consider and to 345 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:34,640 Speaker 1: try to, you know, kind of peel back the years 346 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:36,960 Speaker 1: with this and try to understand, you know, all of 347 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:40,639 Speaker 1: the principles. I would think they that were involved in 348 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:45,440 Speaker 1: this case, if they're if they're not deceased, they're well 349 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:51,720 Speaker 1: well up in to the latter part of their life. 350 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 1: I'll say that I would think that they would have 351 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:56,760 Speaker 1: to be at least in certainly in their late seventies 352 00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:57,439 Speaker 1: early eighties. 353 00:22:57,520 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, I figured fifty years. He's been gone fifty years. 354 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, and so I don't know that there would 355 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:05,800 Speaker 1: still be anybody you could go and specifically question about 356 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:09,840 Speaker 1: this and say, you know, well, what did you see 357 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:12,679 Speaker 1: at that time? What did you notice? And that's one 358 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,960 Speaker 1: of the important things in forensics day is that I 359 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:21,320 Speaker 1: teach my kids at university that not only are they 360 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:27,440 Speaker 1: training and being educated to become forensic investigators, but they're 361 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:30,680 Speaker 1: also de facto historians too, because you take a case 362 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:34,159 Speaker 1: like this and if you had failed back then at 363 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:37,400 Speaker 1: that period of time to document everything that you saw, 364 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:40,640 Speaker 1: because you know, we don't think that someday I'm going 365 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,959 Speaker 1: to be gone and you know, you don't think that 366 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 1: way most of the time, particularly when you're young. Well, 367 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:49,520 Speaker 1: it's going to be the case. You're going to be gone. 368 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:53,040 Speaker 1: All that is going to remain are going to be 369 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:56,000 Speaker 1: those notes that you took at that moment time when 370 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:59,400 Speaker 1: you wrote them down, the things you've documented, the environment 371 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 1: that was there. If that's not well documented, then you're 372 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 1: gonna have a catastrophic failure. It might not occur for 373 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:27,119 Speaker 1: five decades. I just want to revisit once again, this 374 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 1: clothing that Jimmy Dolson was wearing when he was discovered. 375 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:39,399 Speaker 3: Joe, I need to know something because I'm hung up 376 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 3: on when he's reported missing in October November and remains 377 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:47,679 Speaker 3: found April eighteenth. Okay, now, we know Kansas is cold 378 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:54,200 Speaker 3: and that would change decomposition some But when you're out 379 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:56,200 Speaker 3: there in the field and you're trying to determine how 380 00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:59,520 Speaker 3: long has this individual been here and there remains are 381 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:02,760 Speaker 3: decomp somewhat, are you also going to be looking at 382 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 3: the clothing, the wear and tear on the clothing, and 383 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 3: whether or not animals have done their business. Are you 384 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:10,160 Speaker 3: going to be able to get a handle on even 385 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,920 Speaker 3: if the remains are not that you know, because again 386 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,359 Speaker 3: they're saying two to four weeks that he'd been out there. 387 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:17,720 Speaker 3: Is it possible he could have been out there much 388 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:19,720 Speaker 3: longer than two to four weeks. 389 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:23,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's going to throw deepening. And we don't know 390 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:31,160 Speaker 1: anything from a meteorological standpoint about that late fall into 391 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:36,399 Speaker 1: the winter. Tom held, did it get unseasonably cold in 392 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:39,800 Speaker 1: the fall of nineteen seventy two in this particular region 393 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:43,359 Speaker 1: where if he did die, it could in some level 394 00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:49,359 Speaker 1: retard the trajectory of the decomposition. It's hard, it's hard 395 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:53,159 Speaker 1: to kind of parse that out. I think what we 396 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:56,040 Speaker 1: do know is that when he was discovered and David, 397 00:25:56,160 --> 00:26:00,200 Speaker 1: this clothing list that you've provided me, Dave, is very 398 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:03,240 Speaker 1: specific to this young man. And let me run it 399 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:08,239 Speaker 1: down just so everybody understands. It's a brown corduroy jacket. Okay, Now, 400 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:10,920 Speaker 1: it's not a heavy coat. It's a brown corduroy jacket. 401 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 1: It's not like your you know, your dress to go 402 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:18,399 Speaker 1: to the Arctic or anything. A green long sleeve shirt. 403 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:20,760 Speaker 1: I don't know about you, but I don't wear long 404 00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 1: sleeve shirts generally in the summertime, most of the time 405 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:28,240 Speaker 1: in late spring. I certainly don't. This is they're saying 406 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,880 Speaker 1: the shirt was buttoned. Okay, so that's a big tail 407 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,320 Speaker 1: for me because that means that the clothing is not 408 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:38,280 Speaker 1: disrupted in any way. He's wearing jeans. They don't give 409 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:42,520 Speaker 1: the color of the jeans. He's got a black leather belt. 410 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:47,440 Speaker 1: It's got a large belt buckle. Now they don't give 411 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:50,240 Speaker 1: us a descriptor on the belt buckle. Now, I don't 412 00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:53,760 Speaker 1: know about you. I've had enough cases where I've seen 413 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:58,480 Speaker 1: people that you know, get belt buckles from Western stores 414 00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:01,720 Speaker 1: or they collected them from or something like that, and 415 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:05,040 Speaker 1: they're very specific. If you've got a large they're describing 416 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:09,040 Speaker 1: this thing as a large belt buckle. Well, what's what? 417 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:11,760 Speaker 1: Is there an image? Is there an engraving on there 418 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 1: at all? He's wearing brown hiking boots, Dave. He's got 419 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:24,560 Speaker 1: a navy blue stocking cap on as well. So you know, 420 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 1: from a practical standpoint, you got a jacket on, you've 421 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,920 Speaker 1: got a stocking cap, you would think, well, he's trying 422 00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:37,280 Speaker 1: to keep his extremities, you know, warm. He's got heavy 423 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:41,080 Speaker 1: boots on, hiking boots, and they're very specific about that. 424 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,440 Speaker 1: And then you couple that with all of the jewelry. 425 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:49,360 Speaker 1: But here's the thing. Even though the corner had all 426 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:52,399 Speaker 1: of that data that they had collected at autopsy, of 427 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:57,160 Speaker 1: course they observed it at the scene as well. Here's 428 00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 1: the thing about it. The corner at the time when 429 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:04,439 Speaker 1: they got Jimmy's body back to the medical legal facility 430 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:09,840 Speaker 1: where they did his examination, they were able to determine 431 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 1: that he's a homicide victim. But David, I've got to 432 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:17,439 Speaker 1: tell you, when it comes to the specifics of the injuries, 433 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 1: I'd say, we're greatly lacking here, aren't we. 434 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:24,560 Speaker 3: I'm trying to figure out how much more they can 435 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 3: tell that they're not sharing. And again with no uh, 436 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:31,640 Speaker 3: with no limit, no statute of limitations on a murder, 437 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:36,399 Speaker 3: and they've described blunt force trauma right to the head, 438 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,320 Speaker 3: I'm going I'm throwing that in there. I don't think 439 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:41,000 Speaker 3: they said to the head. I think they said there's 440 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:42,680 Speaker 3: some blunt force trauma, correct. 441 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:46,760 Speaker 1: They just said to me. In my reading, the idea 442 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:53,520 Speaker 1: was that there were the body displayed trauma, right, and 443 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 1: that was essentially all they're saying. So, you know, trauma 444 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 1: comes in many forms. You can be sle you can 445 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:05,280 Speaker 1: be shot, you can be run over, which is a 446 00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,640 Speaker 1: form of blunt force trauma, or you can be beaten 447 00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:13,240 Speaker 1: to death with an object. Heck, I mean trauma can 448 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:16,920 Speaker 1: also depend upon how you view it can also be 449 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:21,200 Speaker 1: framed in the sense that, well, do you have trauma 450 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:24,240 Speaker 1: to his neck, like he's got external injuries that perhaps 451 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:28,840 Speaker 1: they could still appreciate. There's underlying hemorrhage. Maybe he's been 452 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:29,880 Speaker 1: punched in the throat. 453 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:31,360 Speaker 2: Yeh. 454 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:33,920 Speaker 3: Sadly, I have no idea when I said trauma to 455 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 3: the head, I just assumed that. 456 00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:35,560 Speaker 2: But you're right. 457 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 3: I went back through all my notes and in no 458 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:40,880 Speaker 3: point does sayhead, just as trauma to his body. Now, 459 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,680 Speaker 3: as we're looking at this all these years later, and 460 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 3: we're looking over the vagueness of this report, but the 461 00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:50,600 Speaker 3: very specific description of the clothes he's wearing in the jewelry, 462 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:53,760 Speaker 3: it seems kind of odd that they would be so specific. 463 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,040 Speaker 2: About that, very vague about injuries. 464 00:29:56,080 --> 00:30:00,400 Speaker 3: But you've got a missing sixteen year old and couldn't 465 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:02,080 Speaker 3: figure out that this was the guy, And I guess 466 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:05,840 Speaker 3: it's He was in Kansas City when he went missing 467 00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:09,880 Speaker 3: October November of seventy two, and the body has found 468 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:12,840 Speaker 3: eighty miles away in nineteen say, for a seventy three 469 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:15,920 Speaker 3: That doesn't seem like a great distance to us today. 470 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:19,360 Speaker 3: Was it that much different then that eighty miles would 471 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,560 Speaker 3: have been? I can't imagine, Joe, I just I guess 472 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:24,640 Speaker 3: I'm sitting here thinking, how is it possible that law 473 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:28,000 Speaker 3: enforcement didn't connect We've got a body over here of 474 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:31,080 Speaker 3: a young I mean, they would know his gender, they 475 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:34,720 Speaker 3: would know if he was white, black, Hispanic, they would 476 00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:36,040 Speaker 3: have the basics of ethnicity. 477 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:37,880 Speaker 2: And you're gonna tell me they couldn't put two and 478 00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:38,560 Speaker 2: two together and go. 479 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:40,520 Speaker 3: We got a white kid missing over here, got a 480 00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:42,920 Speaker 3: white kid dead over here. Hey, let's just see if 481 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,160 Speaker 3: the you know, we got very specific jewelry, very specific 482 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,800 Speaker 3: clothing here. How is it possible that we don't know 483 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:52,360 Speaker 3: who this is? Because they said they kept trying for 484 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:55,800 Speaker 3: years and years and years, and it was only when 485 00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,400 Speaker 3: they got autrom when we get down of the genetics, 486 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 3: they couldn't figure it out based on cloth, clothing, on jewelry, 487 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:06,000 Speaker 3: on a description of the body with trauma. That all 488 00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:10,560 Speaker 3: these years later, fifty years go by and now they're 489 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:15,240 Speaker 3: doing genetic re engineering pretty much the DNA work that 490 00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:19,800 Speaker 3: Authoram does that is so intense. They have a maximum 491 00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:22,200 Speaker 3: period of time individuals are allowed to work. 492 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:23,760 Speaker 2: On a case on a given day. 493 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you can't work any longer. And I don't 494 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:28,880 Speaker 1: know if our friends know this, but you can't work 495 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,680 Speaker 1: any longer than about fifteen minutes and you have to 496 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 1: go for a break. The work that AUTHRAM does is 497 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 1: so labor intensive, and that's what they did. I'm sure 498 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:44,680 Speaker 1: with Jimmy's case, the case itself, because it's been languishing 499 00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:50,480 Speaker 1: for these many years, the KBI actually referred the case 500 00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:59,959 Speaker 1: to AUTHRAM and got them involved. Unfortunately, Jimmy's siblings are 501 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:04,400 Speaker 1: are still with us, and based upon the genetic material 502 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 1: that they retained from Jimmy's remains from all of those 503 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 1: years ago day, they were able to get his coating, 504 00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:19,760 Speaker 1: if you will, his genetic coating and placed that into 505 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:24,760 Speaker 1: the system and they got to hit through this open 506 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:29,000 Speaker 1: open sourcing of people that have their you know, their 507 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:32,320 Speaker 1: DNA and the open source banks that are out there, 508 00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:34,760 Speaker 1: and they were able to confirm, you know, after you 509 00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:38,920 Speaker 1: get that hit, which is very important, the initial hit, 510 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,480 Speaker 1: you know, and you're looking at maybe you know a 511 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:45,720 Speaker 1: cousin or something, and you can track that back concentrically 512 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:50,000 Speaker 1: and you say, okay, they're putting two and two together. 513 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:52,840 Speaker 1: We've got a kid that was missing from nineteen seventy two. 514 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:56,160 Speaker 1: We have these relatives right here and they're very very 515 00:32:56,200 --> 00:33:00,520 Speaker 1: close genetically in proximity to our victim. Let's go talk 516 00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:05,720 Speaker 1: to him. Can you imagine? Can you imagine you're a brother, 517 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:10,560 Speaker 1: or a sister or maybe a cousin, and you're sitting 518 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 1: around in a knock comes to your door and it's 519 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,000 Speaker 1: a law enforcement official and they say, we want to 520 00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:21,320 Speaker 1: ask you a question. I want to ask you a question. 521 00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:25,000 Speaker 1: Is there anybody in your family that's missing? Can you imagine? 522 00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:29,040 Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden you recall, yeah, my cousin, 523 00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:32,320 Speaker 1: my brother, my sister, you know, yeah, they've been missing 524 00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:39,360 Speaker 1: since nineteen seventy two. Well, guess what, guess what, here's 525 00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:44,880 Speaker 1: the big reveal we have. We have your loved one's remains, 526 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:48,480 Speaker 1: and that's been made possible by the work that AUTHORAM 527 00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:54,360 Speaker 1: has done. And look to their credit with KBI, they 528 00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:59,040 Speaker 1: had the good sense to reach out to AUTHORM and 529 00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:01,920 Speaker 1: push this case toward them so that they could examine 530 00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:05,040 Speaker 1: it more closely and maybe get a hit, and in 531 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:12,040 Speaker 1: this case they actually did. But again, look I have 532 00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:16,520 Speaker 1: to say this is an open homicide because the Corner 533 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:20,880 Speaker 1: all those years ago ruled that Jimmy died as a 534 00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:25,800 Speaker 1: result of well, for us, it's non specific, but homicidal trauma. 535 00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:28,400 Speaker 1: That classified the thing as a homicide. That means that 536 00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:31,920 Speaker 1: this is an open case. That means that if there 537 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:37,560 Speaker 1: is somebody out there that had anything to do with 538 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:43,080 Speaker 1: Jimmy's homicide, they're on the hook for it, Dave, they 539 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:44,000 Speaker 1: are on the hook for it. 540 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:44,640 Speaker 2: Doesn't go away. 541 00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:44,960 Speaker 1: You know. 542 00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:49,239 Speaker 3: The one reason we do these authorn cases, we try 543 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:50,120 Speaker 3: to do them every so often. 544 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:51,800 Speaker 2: This one just happened to pop up this week. 545 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:53,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, while we were in Long Island, we knew we 546 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:55,920 Speaker 3: were going to be doing the podcast in the Billy 547 00:34:56,000 --> 00:35:00,279 Speaker 3: Joel provided room. But this is so fresh. That's terms 548 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:02,680 Speaker 3: of a case. It's just now in the media because 549 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:07,359 Speaker 3: they just got this finished, and all I can think 550 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:10,480 Speaker 3: of is author them to do their work to bring 551 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:13,920 Speaker 3: I don't want to say closure, but to actually find 552 00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:16,319 Speaker 3: answers for families. They have to crowdfund. They have to 553 00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:20,400 Speaker 3: crowdsource fund. The ability to raise money and solve these 554 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:23,160 Speaker 3: things as it does cost money, money, and time. I 555 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:27,560 Speaker 3: can't imagine having a loved one missing and the difference 556 00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:32,080 Speaker 3: between identifying my child, my brother, my mom or dad 557 00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:34,640 Speaker 3: is seventy five hundred dollars to get started. 558 00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:36,080 Speaker 2: And I have to you. 559 00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:38,680 Speaker 3: Know, not lot ofs don't have the money just laying around, 560 00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:42,319 Speaker 3: you know, but we can all donate. And that's how 561 00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,400 Speaker 3: they actually fund these things. Is not like author them Again, 562 00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:48,040 Speaker 3: I go back to all the things our government funds, Joe, 563 00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:51,480 Speaker 3: you're going to I just assumed there was a checking 564 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:54,319 Speaker 3: account for medical research and things like this where you 565 00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 3: just call the government say hey, I need you know 566 00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:59,040 Speaker 3: a couple hundred thousand dollars going to solve from crimes today. 567 00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:03,080 Speaker 1: That's that's just not the case. And it all depends 568 00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:06,000 Speaker 1: on where our priorities are as a people. I think 569 00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,320 Speaker 1: and for me, and I'm biased, I'll have to admit. 570 00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:14,360 Speaker 1: And it goes back to my earlier statement. I've stood 571 00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:18,799 Speaker 1: at gravesides where bodies have been buried that were unidentified, 572 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:24,439 Speaker 1: and it's free investigator, and it's soul crushing. It's soul 573 00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:28,080 Speaker 1: crushing to see bodies placed into the ground and you 574 00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:32,399 Speaker 1: don't know who they are at all. But with the 575 00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:37,680 Speaker 1: work that Authoram is doing, it is it's a game 576 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,800 Speaker 1: changer in the world of forensic science. It's a game 577 00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:46,360 Speaker 1: changer I think for just us as a people, that 578 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:50,280 Speaker 1: we are able at some point in time to provide 579 00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:53,400 Speaker 1: maybe comfort to a family because all these years, you know, 580 00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:57,760 Speaker 1: Jimmy's family. You know, I like to use the empty 581 00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:01,800 Speaker 1: chair analogy. There's always an empty chair at the table. 582 00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:07,520 Speaker 1: You know how many Christmases, how many Thanksgivings went without 583 00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:10,280 Speaker 1: him being there? No matter what had happened in the past, 584 00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:14,080 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. You know what has occurred, what kind 585 00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:16,480 Speaker 1: of falling out that somebody may have had, what kind 586 00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:19,440 Speaker 1: of words were said, And we don't know enough at 587 00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:23,600 Speaker 1: this point in time, but there's something that separated that 588 00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:29,000 Speaker 1: separated Jimmy from his family at sixteen years of age, 589 00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:34,120 Speaker 1: where he was out there alone and his body has 590 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:39,040 Speaker 1: been left discarded. I urge all of our listeners to 591 00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:45,759 Speaker 1: please please visit dnasols dot com and you can look 592 00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:48,239 Speaker 1: over the cases that are there and see if there 593 00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:53,319 Speaker 1: is anything that you know, perhaps piqued your interest, a 594 00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:55,440 Speaker 1: case that you would like to be involved with, the 595 00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:59,240 Speaker 1: case that you would like to support. Again, that's dnasolves 596 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:03,200 Speaker 1: dot com. Have one more that I would like to 597 00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:07,080 Speaker 1: pass on to you as well, and that is the 598 00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:12,200 Speaker 1: tip line for the Kansas Bureau of Investigation. Keep in mind, 599 00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:14,759 Speaker 1: you can help solve a homicide, all right. I just 600 00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:19,560 Speaker 1: want to say that plainly. You can help solve this homicide. 601 00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:24,080 Speaker 1: Maybe it's a comment that was made in passing. Maybe 602 00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:28,560 Speaker 1: somebody out there was in the joint with somebody at 603 00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:31,080 Speaker 1: some point in time and somebody said something. Then you 604 00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:34,719 Speaker 1: never know what scrap of information might help out. But 605 00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,279 Speaker 1: here's the tip line for the Kansas Bureau of Investigation. 606 00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:43,720 Speaker 1: It's one eight hundred KS crime. That's one eight hundred 607 00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:50,399 Speaker 1: ks c r IM and we want to see we 608 00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:54,680 Speaker 1: want to see if we can solve the homicide of 609 00:38:54,760 --> 00:39:00,200 Speaker 1: Jimmy Alan Dollson, who went missing in the fall of 610 00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:07,160 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy two, was discovered in April of nineteen seventy three, 611 00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:10,360 Speaker 1: and as a result of the work that our friends 612 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:18,240 Speaker 1: at Authoram Labs performed, was identified in twenty twenty five. 613 00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:25,360 Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Body Backs