00:00:00 Speaker 1: Welcome to How to Money. I'm Joel. I'm Matt. 00:00:02 Speaker 2: Today we're talking pruning property taxes, midterm madness, and passive income poppycock. 00:00:15 Speaker 1: Pretty sure I know why you went with midterm madness. Were you channeling your inner Camille or... Matt Wilf. Yeah, let's be honest. He's the best over there, yeah. Well, he takes more of a similar approach in the middle of the road. It's all about the nuance take. Anyway, this is. 00:00:36 Speaker 2: But the midterms are upon us, Matt, and there is some things that people are doing in regards to... They're letting their political views dictate some of their financial moves, which is typically bad news. 00:00:46 Speaker 1: We'll talk about that in a sec. I hate that. Before we kick things off on our Friday flight, which is... This is the show where we talk about some of the more urgent... headlines or news that we've come across this week and how it pertains to your personal finances but uh one of the things that's been all the buzz joel is the anthropic uh ipo you excited you gonna get you some no probably not yeah probably not it's good i get why it's exciting and and it seems like the the financial statement they released i have not read it all man it's very long it's like reading a a bill that's going to pass the senate or something like that right but I barely read a story that was talking about the Ant IPO. 00:01:25 Speaker 2: That's how disinterested we are, I think. 00:01:27 Speaker 1: Because it's not how we invest. Yeah, yeah. 00:01:29 Speaker 2: And I'm sure at some point we'll end up owning some Ant just in an index fund, right? And that'll be great. But I think the people who get really excited about IPOs, they often, the moves are really quick in those first few days, up and then down. And I think for most people, it just doesn't fit in with a long-term investor's thesis. 00:01:50 Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree. Yeah, it's not how we invest, right? And with that in mind, I guess that that is the only way that I can justify showing any interest and not in following it or anything like that, but like, I don't know, a month or two in seeing what the prices are and maybe I'll pick up a few shares. I did this with SpaceX and it's because of how long it takes to get any SpaceX or in this case, anthropic exposure, right? Because it takes, there's like that seasoning process before it's admitted into space Well, the S & P 500 specifically. Because I guess the NASDAQ made the exception for SpaceX, right? It can get in sooner, exactly. But I'm basically all in on the S & P 500. And so that's my only way. It's the only way that I can talk myself into paying any little bit of attention to it. But that being said, if you're thinking about it from an AI standpoint, what is the number one factor or input into AI? Chips. Chips. And let's see, is NVIDIA, is Micron, are they in the S & P 500? Yep. So you own a lot of NVIDIA if you own a lot of the S & P 500. Yeah, so even that doesn't hold that much water. So I don't know, I thought you might be excited about that. But let's keep moving. 00:03:06 Speaker 2: I just think it's one of those things that starts to fill people's news feeds. And if you are interested in investing, you're going to start to hear more and more about this and you might start getting amped for it. And the truth is, if you kind of follow more of the how to money philosophy, you, you might want to just, uh, tune those things out because whether or not you buy a little bit of Nvidia, you, upon the IPO release, when you're allowed to, it's going to have very little impact on your overall ability to reach financial independence. I think it's more, it's more noise. Um, and, and you want to pay more attention to the long-term factors that really move the needle for you. 00:03:42 Speaker 1: That's right. Um, Something else we should talk about. I saw that there are some new rules governing whether or not airlines are allowed or are required to refund you based on a delayed or canceled flight. 00:03:55 Speaker 2: I guess they're allowed to. They don't want to be forced to. 00:04:00 Speaker 1: Essentially, the DOT added events that qualify as activities or incidences that are outside of the airline's control. So, for instance, some of them make sense. I saw that if an unruly passenger... has to be removed from the flight. Okay. You know, that's on him or her. I'm guessing. I don't know. Maybe it's 50-50. What do you think the numbers are as far as somebody just... I'm going to say 50-50. You think so? 00:04:27 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:04:27 Speaker 1: I mean, yeah. Anyway. You would think. 00:04:30 Speaker 2: It would skew more male, but I don't know. Based on some of the videos I've seen, I think it's 50-50. 00:04:33 Speaker 1: That's what I was going to say because I'm picturing the, I don't know, stressed out business worker... He's had a bunch of drinks at the lounge and then he's showing up and he's just being incredibly rude and abusive to people. The Michael Douglas from Falling Down, you know? So that's something where I'm like, okay, I get that. But then when it comes to certain, like unplanned maintenance, for instance, was one that they're like, oh, that's outside of the airline's control. And I'm thinking to myself... Shouldn't all maintenance be on the calendar or log, like on some sort of logs, some sort of timeline? I feel like as an airline that puts us up in the clouds, it should be your responsibility to make sure that there are certain things that are done. And I know things come up and you have to address certain things, but I don't know. At the end of the day, I wasn't really happy with this because I feel that a business should work really hard to keep passengers happy. To make sure flights are flying on time, departing when they're supposed to, and obviously making sure that there are safe planes in the skies regardless. Like that should just be a part of, I think, the business model as opposed to saying, well, there's these few things that are outside their control. I thought one of the most annoying things on that list was the extra aircraft cleaning. And so I get it if somebody hurls on the flight or something and it takes a little bit extra time. but that can, I can also see that being an excuse that airlines use for a delayed flight. Oh, sorry. 00:06:04 Speaker 2: We had to clean, clean the cabin a little bit longer. 00:06:06 Speaker 1: It was messier. So yes. Yeah. You can kind of like pull some of these other activities into, Oh, extra cleaning. Yeah. 00:06:15 Speaker 2: So basically what it means, unless you're like flying, flying from Europe, the, your ability to be compensated for a delayed flight just got even more difficult in the United States of America. So, uh, Not good news. I wish that there were more flyers rights. But yeah, let's talk about also on the travel flight news, Matt. There's some new breaking news about how much it's going to cost for people to travel. We talked, I don't know, maybe a month and a half ago, kind of encouraging people to start shopping for holiday travel because prices were going up and we were kind of in that sweet spot window to book. And now the closer we get, Thanksgiving travel is looking ridiculously expensive. I think The Hopper said that seasonal airfare prices are up 23% maybe for Thanksgiving and 30 plus percent for Christmas. That's a lot more than last year. And so I think it's more important than ever to look further out to set fare alerts on Google flights. At this point, though, at this point, Matt, people have very little recourse when it comes to getting a deal on a flight because we're just getting too close to some of those travel periods. 00:07:22 Speaker 1: That's true. Yeah. Obviously, a big part of airfare going up in price is the war. Right? You got the war in Iran. You got the price of oil still over 100 barrels, and that has a direct impact on jet fuel, of course. Yep. I forget if it was the Journal or the Times. There was an article about essentially the death of Spirit Airlines and how... That's part of it. Yeah. Essentially, the downward pressure that they would put on certain routes specifically. But I saw that the median ticket is up 25%, and there is one route that's up 40%. across all the airlines that now fly that route after Spirit left. And this is an instance where I think, man, we should be so thankful for these low cost, not just carriers, but just low cost products that compete with the nicer stuff because the fact that they even exist, like I'm thinking of Aldi, right? Like you might hear me talking about how much I love Aldi and how overnight we slashed our grocery bill 30%. I mean, literally that happened. And you might be thinking, yeah, Aldi sucks. I don't want to be a part of that. But you should still be glad that they exist because they're taking market share from the fancier grocery stores out there. And they're keeping them on their toes, right? You got to be on your toes. Yeah, they have to be competitive. 00:08:37 Speaker 2: If you know Aldi's in your town, if you know Spirit's flying similar routes to you, you're on your toes and you have to pay attention to what they're doing and adjust accordingly. And when they die, as Spirit did, then you have the ability to raise prices with impunity, which is what a lot of the airlines have done. 00:08:53 Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and I mean, I will say the major carriers were really competitive and stepped up because as you've got these low cost providers like Spirit, that's what did Delta do? What did American Airlines do? They started offering these basic economy fares to compete. It's just like, oh yeah, we're the nice, you know, you're trying to undercut us. We can do that too. And their ability to create a K-shaped cabin, perhaps, right? Like you've got really the nice tickets where folks are paying off the nose because they're price insensitive and it's on The companies dime, but they're also able to provide some of those basic economy seats and sort of outdo Spirit at their own game. 00:09:33 Speaker 2: Some of these airline CEOs have essentially said the quiet part out loud. We're not interested in the cheapos. We want the premium passengers who are willing to pay more. And so you have to know what the trade-offs are involved in booking basic economy. And essentially, if you can't make those travel dates, you're out the money, right? So there are trade-offs to booking the cheaper flights. I am typically prone to book the cheapest flights possible. Just that's how I roll. I don't care much about premium fancy travel or the extra inch, even though I'm six foot five of legroom space, but you have to know the trade-offs and you have to know, well, how firm are these travel? Am I actually, is there a chance that this doesn't happen and I need to get the credit back to fly at another time. So make sure you know all those details before you book as well. 00:10:18 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:10:18 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:10:18 Speaker 1: It could be worth it, but it may not be worth it depending on what kind of flexibility you need. But when it comes to being flexible with your schedule, obviously, if you are looking at the holidays, I feel like you've got, maybe you've got less flexibility because folks are kind of married to certain days of the week. But there is a, they interviewed a flight expert with going.com. And they are saying that these days that flying on a Tuesday is or flying on a Saturday, those are the less busy days. And so that you're most likely going to see discounts on those specific days, which I found encouraging for folks out there who perhaps have a little more flexibility in the schedule. Probably be cheaper than trying to go Wednesday to Sunday is my guess. Yeah. For Thanksgiving. Exactly. We got a piece up on the website recently about property taxes and what it is that you can do about that. You want to highlight that for folks? Yeah, so- And just what's going on, generally speaking, in the country too. 00:11:10 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, there are things you can do as an individual to combat property taxes. And actually, when you look at the data map, most people don't. They get the notice of what their property taxes are for the coming year. And I'm guessing for a lot of people, it started to plateau a little bit. But in the years prior, if you hadn't combated certainly the notices you've gotten, if they were out of whack, you might find yourself paying a whole lot more in property taxes every single year. And so that's also making this into more of a political issue. And we're seeing more stuff on ballots across the country about property taxes. Some states saying we're going to try to eliminate property taxes, others to increase homestead exemption, which means if that's the primary home you live in, it reduces your taxable level. Louisiana might reduce property taxes. I think Florida is working on this. And there are even Ohio and Kansas are also considering big property tax relief bills. So this is kind of something that's becoming more in vogue. And it's a political issue, interestingly enough too, Matt. This is kind of– at times, this goes– there's like a generational sort of factor here where some states and municipalities offer reduced property taxes for senior citizens. 00:12:22 Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. I saw that. I really like that. Yeah. 00:12:25 Speaker 2: Well, there was– one story in Kiplinger I think was– about how senior citizens can reduce their property tax bill by volunteering. That was my favorite because I don't necessarily love the idea of young people paying more in property taxes who are just getting started out, just starting out in their careers. They haven't had decades to save and invest for retirement and letting senior citizens pay less for property taxes. I just don't like the way that's balanced out. But if you give people, seniors in particular, an incentive to serve their community and in that way reduce their property taxes, I think that's pretty cool. 00:12:59 Speaker 1: Yes. I love that. I love that. Um, gosh, I think it's Colorado, Texas, uh, Pennsylvania, New York, where some of the States that have programs like this, and hopefully this is something that we'll see, uh, continue to expand, but obviously it's good for those seniors. So for a lot of those States, you have to be 60 years or older, uh, sometimes maybe 62, but, um, What I like is that you can offset more than $ 1, 000 off of your property tax in a lot of cases. And so it's good from a financial standpoint. But I also just love that it's so... And obviously, it fills a need there at the local library or a community center or a local municipality administrative office or something like that. So they're actually filling a need. But this is also so good for a lot of individuals who I think... who may have just pulled the lever, you know, they pulled the chute on their retirement. They haven't thought about it in a sort of holistic way that we like to talk about it here on the show, where it's just like, what are you going to do with your time? Think about developing those hobbies, those core pursuits like Wes Moss talks about. And there might be a lot of folks sitting around saying, man, what am I going to do? I've got all this time on my hands. Oh, I'll go up. And their ability to contribute to their local, the local fabric of their community and their neighborhood to me is just, awesome, right? Their minds are active. They're engaging with friends in real life, moving their body. It just feels like an all-around good thing. But whether or not, so that's the seniors sort of program, but whether or not states choose to raise or lower, I mean, I think I'm all for because of their ability as states to have to figure it out, right? And like, As opposed to the federal government who can just print more money. States can't do that. States have to balance their budgets. And if you're going to cut taxes on one end of the equation, unless you are making up the tax base by some other way or the state's growing, it generally means you have to spend less, right? And so finding the balance of how do we keep our citizens, how do we keep our residents and our state happy, I think ultimately leads to a better country, right? As states start taking... Pages from other states' books. Yeah. 00:15:17 Speaker 2: And some states just going in diametrically opposed directions, right? So like California and Florida, those are very different states. And they're trying to achieve different things. And they're attracting, I would say, different kinds of people too. So yeah, I think you could make a case for why property taxes are a good thing. And actually, there are some stories about like senior citizens saying, hey, I own my property free and clear. Why do I have to pay property taxes? And the truth is property taxes pay for a whole lot of things that we all use. And so if we just say, no, once you pay off your home, you don't have to pay property taxes anymore, then I think it does harm to the community as a whole. So that push can put, I think, disproportionate tax burden on people who are in those earlier years of their life who could use actually some more of their relief while they're starting businesses and families and stuff like that. 00:16:09 Speaker 1: As opposed to the boomer generation who might be sitting on a ton of wealth and it's just like, oh yeah, property taxes, no problem. Let's get to this Guardian survey, Joel. And they found that 61% of Americans believe that we are currently in a recession, which is just wrong. That is incorrect. And as evidenced by the fact that the... So a recession is defined as two consecutive quarters of a negative growth in your GDP. Yeah. We just got Q3 numbers and 3.4%, baby. That's a good number. Before that, Q2, 2.2%. That's a good number. Q1, 2.5%. These are not negative numbers. And so I think this is so much less about what the economy is actually. Unemployment, even if you don't go by the two consecutive contracting quarters of the GDP. There are other measures, too. And so but like one of them is unemployment. Some of them are like consumer spending. Unemployment is still down. Consumer spending is still up. And so this is less about the economy and more, I think, about the general vibes and the attitude. That's the word I was going to use. Yeah, it's just the vibes and how people feel, I think, about their personal finances and what have we seen. changed most over the past several months? Oh, we've seen skyrocketing. We were talking about this when we were talking about airfare. Skyrocketing gas prices. What other price do we see on display anytime we go anywhere, whether we're going to the store, to work, to church, to a soccer game? Wherever it is you go, there are multiple reminders of how much more you're paying now than you used to, right? It's sort of like this low grade, just drip, like in the back of, it's not like, it's not getting waterboarded. It's just sort of like this annoying drip in the middle of the night that you hear from your shower that kind of drives you crazy. I think that's what's going on here. 00:18:15 Speaker 2: I think it's also political dissatisfaction that bleeds over into how we feel about the economy and political ineptness and ineffectiveness to solve the issues that we face. And a lot of people saying a lot of things on the campaign trail, but we're like, where does the rubber meet the road? And is anyone actually going to do something to move the needle on affordability in this country? And it's also fascinating, Matt, and this is true. It seems like it's become more and more true. But if the party that you tend to like is in charge, you tend to feel better about the economy. And then instantly, when the person you don't like gets elected, you tend to feel worse pretty quickly about the economy or where things are headed. And so I think that part of what this reveals is that people's political preferences, and as we get into silly season, we're in the very heart of silly political season. I think people feel worse about the state of things, the state of the economy in general, just because of all of the doom and gloom negative ads we're seeing. 00:19:21 Speaker 1: I think so. Yeah. So- It seems like the vibes might be changing who it is that people vote for, right? We'll see after midterms are up. We will. Will the election change how it is that you invest your dollars? Well, that's not a maybe. That's a yes, at least for 40% of investors who have already tweaked their portfolios. That's crazy. That's crazy. Leading up to midterm madness, a large percentage of Americans have already modified how it is that they're investing, which is just another way of trying to time the market, man. This is an instance where your political leanings, I think, are going to have a negative impact on a lot of individuals' ability to secure Right. And more than anything, I think it's just it's an indication that we as Americans have our hopes. We have our priorities in the wrong place. 00:20:16 Speaker 2: Right. 00:20:16 Speaker 1: And we have our hopes pinned to to the wrong thing. When you are making massive changes to how it is you're investing your dollars based on who it is that's getting elected to Congress. I was just. 00:20:29 Speaker 2: Reading a book from a friend and he he wrote about how he made a massive sale. of some of his stock holdings when the pandemic first started and the market was declining precipitously. And he talked about how he lost so much money because of the quick recovery. He estimates that even that $ 200, 000 sale that he made cost him something like $ 500, 000 because he missed the run back up. And every time, think about going back earlier this year, Matt, all of the predictions about what tariffs were going to do to the stock market. There was some short-lived turbulence. And even you and I, we were not fans of the tariff regime. But these are the kind of things where there are a million inputs that you can see every year in the headlines that would cause you to think, this thing's going off the rails. I better cash out while the getting's good. And yet the people who have a long-term investing philosophy stay the course. continue to believe that we can overcome whatever negative things happen or whatever political party is in office, even if we disagree with their approach, those people end up doing better over a long period of time. Some of that ignoring what's going on and staying the course is the only way you can kind of stay sane and stay invested, I think. 00:21:51 Speaker 1: Yeah. It just reminds me of our friend, friend of the show, friend of the pod, Nick Maggiuli. And especially if you're in the wealth building phase of your life, just continuing, just keep buying. That's the name of the book. Huh? I'm going to use JKB. You know, Jake, just keep buying. Oh, is that the new saying? That's what the kids say. And not to mention too, I think, I mean, it seems like the most likely outcome is that we're going to have divided government. Right. I mean, based on, I don't know, there's a whole lot of talk about the polls and how accurate they are and which way they're leaning and whatnot. But generally speaking, when you have one party in control of the executive and one party in charge of the legislative, like that's when the markets tend to do good, because like, what does that typically lead to? Things not really working quickly, right? Like gridlock, essentially, like stuff sort of maintaining status quo. And that's actually good for markets, because what that provides is stability. Yes, predictability, stability, the ability to look off into the future. And I think that's one of the things That's not the word I would use to characterize the past two years. Let's just say that. 00:22:55 Speaker 2: And I think at the end of the day, the only time you really want to make changes to your portfolio is when your timeframe changes or your goals change. Not because of headlines or political prognostications or even let's say after Tuesday happens, Matt, and you see the results and you're feeling queasy. 00:23:16 Speaker 1: That's okay. Or you disagree. That's okay. That's okay. 00:23:19 Speaker 2: But you don't want to make changes. to your especially as a 30 or 40 something to your long term investing plans and what funds you hold just because of those results. All right, we got more to get to Matt, including why passive income is totally overblown in the internet these days. We'll talk about that and more right after this. 00:23:40 Speaker 1: All right, let's get to the Let's do it. You held up your finger like you wanted to take it, so I'll let you have it. Yeah, I was going to take it. 00:23:52 Speaker 2: I don't know. Sometimes we have to communicate non-verbally. The finger up means I've got it, right? 00:23:59 Speaker 1: I almost gave you the other finger, but I didn't. Or the thumbs up means you take it. Because we're best friends. So you did the finger up, which means I got this one, so go ahead, take it. Okay. 00:24:07 Speaker 2: So this one comes from the Wall Street Journal. I found this one really interesting because I think it's so true. Oh, this is the passive income poppycock. 00:24:15 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes. 00:24:16 Speaker 2: So the headline reads, the internet told them owning a laundromat was easy money. It was anything but. And man, I love that the Wall Street Journal is throwing shade on some of these TikTok influencers trying to convince people, Matt, that passive income is easy to come by. And for some reason, laundromats are one of those particular businesses that they have honed in on. If you just buy a struggling laundromat you will build passive income quickly because every quarter somebody sticks into those machines, it's making you rich and you don't have to do much to get it. I do think it does have something to do with the quarters. I think the fact that. 00:24:53 Speaker 1: It's just visual. It's like shiny piles of money, right? And so I think there's something about the message. What is it? The medium is the message, right? In a certain sense, I think that's the case with laundromats, but go ahead. 00:25:09 Speaker 2: I think there is also a really, really big difference between buying an unsexy business in order to, over time, build wealth through hard. 00:25:19 Speaker 1: Work and. 00:25:23 Speaker 2: Passive income. Passive income is the phrase that gets attached. And yet passive income, it is this almost impossible thing to generate. The easiest way to generate that is through long-term investing in the stock market and then being able to draw down your portfolio, because you don't have... Think about the laundromat, Matt. You have to have a customer base. You probably have to have people working for you. You might have to hire and fire people. There might be, as in this article, someone had to evict drug dealers or drug users from their bathroom in their laundromat. There are all sorts of things that crop up when you own a small business, and you can't just sit back and drink a margarita and let the cash roll, and that's just not how it works. 00:26:05 Speaker 1: You could, but you may not be running a very nice laundromat for too much longer. Or you might be losing money because you might be a terrible business owner. Yeah, because your machines are breaking and you've got to repair them. I think, and I don't know if this is because maybe I'm just getting older, like I'm over the hill now, Joel, but I just hate the idea that people are getting sold this message of like, oh, you get the laundromat and you're going to get rich, right? And I think it's because it's totally, like I don't want to do that. If somebody's out there and they kind of hear that message and they're really into it, I think that's great if that's something that you want to pursue. I just don't like the idea that it seems that there might be individuals perhaps chasing these potential business opportunities in order to get rich, not really paying too much attention to what it is that they're literally spending their waking hours, what they're spending their literal life doing, right? And I know you and I, we are two fortunate, very lucky dudes who get to have a whole lot of fun help people, or at least we try to help people. I feel like we're putting something productive out there into the world. And we're able to make money doing that, right? And so we've got the trifecta of what would lead to sort of personal fulfillment and life satisfaction when it comes to our job. And I know it's like, all right, yeah, you guys are lucky. I don't have that ability. I just have to go where the money is because I've got these goals. You've got extremes, you know, like on one end, it's just like, well, I'm going to do whatever it is that my heart tells me to. And that's where I'm going to find you know, personal fulfillment and satisfaction. But then on the other end, you've got the, it doesn't matter what it is, you get out there and you hustle and you're going to make a ton of money. Of course, I think in the end, we want people to land somewhere in the middle where it's like, okay, yeah, no, my talents, my interests, how I want to spend my time are kind of intersecting with where there's a need in the market and where people are willing to pay. That just feels like such a, just a healthier approach towards business formation and what it is you want to spend your time doing. I mean, I think we live in a country where if there's opportunity, it's okay to seize it. And I think about the show Dirty Jobs. I never really watched it, but I've heard Mike Rowe, and I appreciate the way he thinks about it. There are a lot of people who have jobs that on the outside don't look super fun. They might be kind of stinky and difficult, and yet people are able to build an incredible life for themselves and an incredible business doing something that most people from the outside looking in would say, not interested. And there's nothing wrong with owning a laundromat and making money owning a laundromat. No, not at all. 00:28:39 Speaker 2: I think it could be a wonderful pursuit for some people who wrap their head around it and figure out how to do it well. Maybe you end up owning a few of them and you build your business that way. The problem is, in my mind, where it gets communicated That this is easy, it's simple, turn on the income spigot, make the purchase, and you're good to go. And it's smooth sailing. And that's just not how business ownership works. I mean, I'm reading the book The Everywhere Millionaire right now, Matt, and we're going to interview the economist, one of the economists who wrote that. He talks about how some of the stealth wealth class in the United States– is people who bought or started unsexy businesses. And they live on your block. And it's actually hard to point them out because they might live a life that looks pretty similar to yours, but they might have a net worth of $ 5, $ 10, $ 20 million. And so much of it comes through so often. A business, not some sort of Silicon Valley high-flying venture capitalized business, but through something that that probably functions in your community, whether it's a restaurant or a car dealership. 00:29:44 Speaker 1: And I think that's totally fine. What I'm saying is that I think there's a difference between businesses. On the surface, they're the same, right? You've got the stealthy, wealthy millionaire who owns a laundromat. And then you've got the online influencer who's who owns the laundromat and they're taking the videos like this actual business and what it is they provide. It's the same thing. It's still, it's providing value, but it comes down to, I think the heart behind why it is that you're doing that. And I think for like on, on one hand it feels healthy, which is that this is an unsexy business. Yes, there is a need for this product. I'm going to do a great job. I'm going to provide something that is worth the money, that's better than the competition. I'm trying to raise the standard as to what it is a laundromat, for instance, can look like in this neighborhood, in this city. And on the other end, like the more influencer class, it's held even though It's like the unsexy is all of a sudden sexy again, right? It's like they've latched on and stolen the, like, wait a minute, laundromats used to be the unsexy business. Well, now all of a sudden, because of social media, because of TikTok, they are the sexy business now. That's what I'm pushing back against. The fact that it's being sold as this ticket, like you said, to passive income and that folks are going after it just because it's popular again. Like, that's the part to me that feels a little bit gross as opposed to... But then again, if you're up for trying anything, go for it, right? I think it's the social media part of it that you and I are pushing back against. And so TikTok, they're partially responsible, I think, for people thinking that they're going to be rolling in the laundromat riches. Another social media trend is the glorification of leaving the United States, living abroad, specifically Europe. What are your thoughts on that general trend? So there was a Wired article kind of talking about that and talking about really the regrets that a lot of people have, how they have a kind of utopian idealized version of what it looks like to live across the pond, whether they move to Portugal. 00:31:45 Speaker 2: Or the UK or France, right? There are all of these countries that maybe you have a vision of what it looks like to live there and maybe some of it's accurate, but that other parts of it fall pretty flat. And you realize pretty quickly as an expat from the United States that the life you lived in the United States, maybe you got accustomed to certain things that are normal here, considered normal here, that aren't considered normal there. Think about the salary of a teacher in France versus the salary of a teacher in the United States. And it turns out teachers in France get paid quite a lot less than the average teacher here in the United States. And so there are all sorts of trade-offs, and maybe you find life in the French countryside to be fulfilling even on less money, and that's great. But air conditioners, dishwashers, there are all sorts of things. And even look at kind of the rioting in the streets happening in France right now. There's a lot that is appealing, I think, about some of the European countries, but I also think it's worse before you say, I'm leaving here. The Well, can you still live a better life and avoid maybe some of the worst parts of what American life looks like? For a lot of people, that's a better balance than thinking that you're just going to move to another country and that most of your problems are going to be solved. In a lot of cases, I think it's individuals who just need to get outside. I think it's people who they need to get out. They need to touch grass. They need to hang out with their neighbors. 00:33:12 Speaker 1: Huh? They're too online. They're too online. Yeah. Like 100%. And they're stuck in whatever side of the aisle you're on. Um, you either think that one of the spectrum, you think that the United States is the worst and we're all going to be expats living in Europe and all that. The other end of the spectrum, you think that the government's trying to poison us through our water, uh, via via, I don't know, bottom line, the world is so much better if you actually get out there and interact within the world, as opposed to living your life completely siloed online. And I think that has a lot to do with it, but, uh, let's talk about shopping because it is getting tougher. It's tougher these days to make returns, especially when you are making orders online. It's obviously incredibly expensive for businesses to process these returns. And it unfortunately has to do with people who are ordering a lot of times multiples of certain items. And I put myself in that camp. I'm a part of this. I did that. I shared a few weeks ago about my boots. You know, I got the sweet deal online, but I wasn't totally, I was like, I've never tried this boots on before. I don't know my size. Whereas like with my ultras, I know I'm a nine and a half. So you bought two? Yeah, I ordered multiple pairs because I'm like, well, I think it's a regular, but maybe I need the wide. I kind of have a fat foot. It's like, yeah. Got like a Frodo-looking foot down there. Why don't you show us all? We're on YouTube now, Matt. I think that would... Yeah, we could appeal to a whole other set of people who would watch our videos. We could go against YouTube guidelines. The feed people. All that to say, you got to know, especially as we're entering into the holidays, you got to know the return policies of wherever it is you're shopping. You need to know the policies. You need to know the return windows. You need to know if the retailers who you're shopping with, whether or not they require a fee. If they're going to take a certain dollar amount out of your return. These are all the trade-offs that come with shopping online. Some of these return policies get more generous as we approach Black Friday and people. And these retailers want your business and they say, you can make returns through the end of January. No questions asked. But that's not all retailers. So know what the policy looks like. And more retailers are charging you a fee to make returns than than were just a few years ago. And Matt, I'm seeing more, not even just you can't return this because it said final sale, whereas that is really a buyer beware thing. You might say, oh, it says final sale. It's discounted enough. I'm willing to take the risk. But I encountered a retailer recently who wouldn't take back an item that was just marked sale. And it didn't say anything about the fact that it wasn't returnable. And so I was stuck with the item. I was out the money. It was an annoying experience, but it has my antenna up even more this time of year to look at these retailer policies and to say, am I willing? Like, I'm never going to buy from that retailer again, right? Who wouldn't let me return a sale. That's right. That's right. And so be aware. 00:36:15 Speaker 2: On the front end, because I think it's even more frustrating to say, I blew some of my Christmas shopping budget because I bought something that wasn't returnable or that they took a pound of flesh out when I did try to make that return. If your money is going to that, then it's not less of it's going to the presence for the people you care about. 00:36:35 Speaker 1: And I think this is just a part of, like, these are the trade-offs when it comes to shopping online and the convenience of that. Being able to spend five minutes on my phone as opposed to an hour driving around. Yeah. You know, and honestly, personally, that's a price I'm willing to pay because you're able to reclaim some of your time if you're trying to prioritize that. I think some of it has to do with, too, as I'm thinking about making all... purchasing things on my phone is that it is so stinking easy to make purchases on your phone. Yeah. Whether that's, um, I'm thinking about on Amazon, if it's just, uh, click to buy as opposed to adding to the cart and then choosing all the options, right? Like literally it's a one button thing all the way to, if it's a, an online retailer, retailer, it will automatically fill all your information, right? Because like Apple Pay has streamlined it so much. And then all of a sudden I'm just, before I know it, I'm double clicking and I'm showing it my face. You know, I always smile at it. Do you always smile at it when it's trying to unlock your face? 00:37:36 Speaker 2: I think I just look normal, which is usually a smile, let's be honest. 00:37:39 Speaker 1: Always kind of do a dumb, goofy grin. But all of a sudden, boom, it's like, okay, the order's on the way. I think some of that, it's the, how much they've greased the skids and how easy it is to make these purchases causes people to look right past the fine type and the return policies. But I think that's another reason to institute a 24 or a 48 hour rule, because not only does it maybe keep you from buying something that you would have purchased in the moment that you might regret, but then it also keeps you from having to go through what has become a somewhat frustrating process of making returns. And Matt, I think I've talked to more and more people anecdotally who I meant to make the return. I didn't get it. I didn't get it returned in time. 00:38:22 Speaker 2: And that is that. So maybe it's not even that the return policy isn't generous. It's that we're, it's that we're lazy. And so the fewer things we buy on the front end, because we've instituted more of a rigid kind of buy box, here's how I do it. And here's, here's what I constitute as a good deal. And I only buy it if it's been on my radar for a certain period of time. And it's, I put it in the, I come back the next day, then we're going to be forced with fewer of these return decisions and the annoyance of taking stuff back, hauling it back to the UPS store or Whole Foods or whatever it is. 00:38:54 Speaker 1: So speaking of checking out, what do you think about how more and more businesses are prompting their customers to make a charitable donation right there on the spot while they're staring at you? You know me, I get a. 00:39:07 Speaker 2: Little Grinch-like with those requests. 00:39:10 Speaker 1: I was trying to get my mic to get closer to the screen, but I can't. I was going to invade your space digitally. $ 5 today for this charity, or do you want to round up? It's interesting. 00:39:20 Speaker 2: There was new data about how people have actually started getting frustrated with retailers to the point where they judge the retailer for even asking them in the first place. And I think people do feel put on the spot, Matt. I don't really in the same way. I just typically decline politely because all my giving has been, for the most part, preordained sounds ridiculous, but like I've preconceived where I want to give, how much I want to give and what that looks like. 00:39:46 Speaker 1: Throughout the year. You've got a plan. I think most people feel guilty. 00:39:49 Speaker 2: They either do it out of guilt, and then they're upset that someone made them part with money they weren't expecting to part with. Or they say no, and they're like, why did you ask me? Why did you put me on the spot there? So I think for most people, if you want to be generous, have a giving plan ahead of time, and then you don't feel the guilt of saying no in the moment. Even though I'm wondering if more retailers are going to stop doing these partnerships where they're asking for donations because it is starting to frustrate their customer base. 00:40:19 Speaker 1: Yeah. Do you think it has to do with personality too? Probably. Like the individual? I think I'm pretty low when it comes to... Which personality test does it have agreeableness to? I feel like I'm pretty low on the agreeableness. Like, I don't really care what it is that other people think necessarily. I'm very agreeable, so I'll agree with you here, Matt. Well, it's interesting because I feel like you are more of an extroverted... You're certainly more of an extroverted person, but there's some tests, too. I know where it's like extroverted thinking. And... if you're looking, if somebody is looking to, if they're more social, if they're more agreeable, if they are looking to others, like you are looking for some of that sort of approval, but I think you can combat that. Like you said, with having thought about this very intentionally, I've got a plan. My dollars are going in very specific ways. I have an internal frame that I've created that dictates where it is I give and how I spend my charitable dollars. But at the same time, like that's how I've always given. And I don't, I mean, I really don't care if I'm like, no, zero. Zero dollars. Sorry. I'm like, what are you doing? I think there's a part of me that wants to kind of play the game. Yeah. You know, like there's a part of me that just wants to say, okay, maybe from now on, I'll just set aside a certain amount of money just to when they flip it around, just to be like, okay, I'll give a buck, whatever. I'll give a couple bucks. 00:41:41 Speaker 2: I think it's the same feeling when you get the iPad turned around in your direction and it's like, how much do you want to tip? And the barista is like looking at you with those sweet eyes, you know, and you're like, oh, man. 00:41:53 Speaker 1: Okay. Three bucks, I guess. Like the max tip. That's fine. 00:41:56 Speaker 2: I think that's the same kind of guilt people feel. 00:42:00 Speaker 1: Okay. Just, yeah. Sign me up for that. Would you rather them do that? Or would you rather them do the thing where they like hold it down and then they look away? I think it's all awkward. It's all awkward. It's super awkward too. Cause like some, some servers at restaurants will do that where they're like, they hold the thing down and then they're just like, look it off, look it off to the side. And that's why, that's why you have to, whether it's tipping or whether it's giving, you just have to know, Hey, this is what I, this is what I've allocated. 00:42:25 Speaker 2: This is what I feel comfortable with. And maybe you are the kind of person who loves to give serendipitously. And you're like, actually the person at Kroger who asked me to do, that's one of my favorite charities. 00:42:33 Speaker 1: That's awesome. Yeah. 00:42:34 Speaker 2: I'll donate this way. Uh, but that's not, that's not the way I prefer to do it. I get if that's the way some people like to, but it seems like there's a whole lot of people who think it's a crappy process and that's, that's not their preferred way to give. So, um, Yeah, I think just know ahead of time. Be generous this time of year. 00:42:49 Speaker 1: Absolutely. 00:42:51 Speaker 2: Yeah, give your money away, but maybe don't do it in the way that where you feel. Because even if you give out of guilt, Matt, that's not a good feeling either. So give generously. Don't do it out of guilt. 00:43:01 Speaker 1: All right. I agree. Let's wrap it up for today. Let's do it. Let's do it. What I was going to say was that instead of pimping our YouTube channel, I want folks to leave us a review. Maybe you've come across the show more recently and you haven't rated us, reviewed us, wherever it is that you listen or watch your podcast. But if you have gotten some value out of this episode of the How To Money podcast, let others know by giving us a solid review over there because it helps us to get the word out. There's a lot of folks out there who aren't making money maybe what we would call like the common sense decisions with their money, whether it's how does they spend or earn or invest their dollars. So if you don't mind, please do that. And we would be incredibly thankful. But otherwise, buddy, that's going to be it for this episode. We hope everyone has a fantastic Halloween. Hey, that's tomorrow. Saturday, Halloween. It's going to be a big one. It's going to be good. Have a fun time. Stay safe. And until next time, buddy. Best friends out. Best friends out. Is it playing? Nope. Oh, I clicked it. There it goes. 00:44:11 Speaker 2: All right, favorite Halloween candy, go. 00:44:17 Speaker 1: Oh, Butterfinger, right? Starting at the top, Almond Joy, classic dad candy bar. Almond Joy, Butterfinger, Snickers, Reese's. You make fun of me, but Three Musketeer, then Kit Kat. Oh, those are the worst, man. I bet you're a Milky Way guy, too.