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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.

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Speaker 2: This is Master's in Business with Baravorite Holds on Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 2: This week on the podcast, I have an extra special guest.

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Speaker 2: Natalie Wolfson is CEO of Orion. She has an absolutely

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Speaker 2: comprehensive resume in the financial services industry, everything from AMEX

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Speaker 2: to asset Mark to Charles Schwab. Not only has she

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Speaker 2: been named to a number of one hundred most Influential

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Speaker 2: Women in Finance, I don't know many people who have

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Speaker 2: seen as much of this industry on the front lines

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Speaker 2: as she has for as long as she has, and

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Speaker 2: is now in a position to very much drive change

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Speaker 2: within the industry as CEO at Orion. We know Orion,

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Speaker 2: I know Orian as a performance reporting company. We've been

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Speaker 2: using their their software for I don't know, almost a decade,

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Speaker 2: and they're just a powerhouse in the space. There are

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Speaker 2: few people who have her unique insights into the inside

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Speaker 2: baseball of what drives change in actual wealth management. Not

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Speaker 2: only working with finrun the SEC on the regulatory side

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Speaker 2: and working on the technology side, but having some insight

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Speaker 2: into behavioral finance and understanding what advisors need to help

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Speaker 2: their clients obtain their goals. I thought this conversation was

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Speaker 2: fascinating and I think you will also. With no further ado,

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Speaker 2: my interview of Orian CEO Natalie Wolfson.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me. It's great to

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Speaker 1: be here.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's great to have you. Full disclosure, my firm

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Speaker 2: uses Orion as part of our tech stack in managing

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Speaker 2: the four and a half or so billion dollars we have.

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Speaker 2: But let's talk a little bit about you and your

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Speaker 2: background from UC Berkeley undergrad and then an MBA from UCLA.

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Speaker 2: What were the career plans?

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Speaker 1: So I have to say I graduated Berkeley with a

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Speaker 1: political science degree focusing on international relations and power politics,

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Speaker 1: and so coming out of cal I had absolutely no

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Speaker 1: idea what I wanted to do with my life other

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Speaker 1: than move to New York and start my career.

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Speaker 2: I'm always done when people in California say that, because

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Speaker 2: every time I visit California, it's just so delightful. The

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Speaker 2: weather is fantastic, even just the geography is fabulous. What

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Speaker 2: was it like coming to New York?

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Speaker 1: Oh, New York is fabulous. I mean, anyone who lives

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Speaker 1: here knows this, but especially coming from the West Coast.

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Speaker 1: I love San Francisco. I live in the San Francisco

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Speaker 1: Bay area right now. But there's something just so twenty

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Speaker 1: four to seven about New York City, and you know,

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Speaker 1: I was interested in being part of that. And I thought,

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Speaker 1: if you don't do it in your early twenties, why

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Speaker 1: when would you do it? So I came to New

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Speaker 1: York no job plans, no ideas.

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Speaker 2: No kidding. Wow. So what was the first gig in

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Speaker 2: New York? As a NBA graduate?

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Speaker 1: So I wasn't an MBA yet. I was just a BA.

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Speaker 1: And I was fortunate enough to have a marketing internship

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Speaker 1: at Caesar's World, which is what I did to work

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Speaker 1: myself through college.

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Speaker 2: Caesar's World is what the casinos? Oh really, yes? And

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Speaker 2: that was in New York City they were headquartered.

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Speaker 1: No, the internship I did in Nevada, uh huh. And

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Speaker 1: then because that internship was in marketing, I had some

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Speaker 1: opportunities to do consulting work and then eventually found my

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Speaker 1: way to American Express working in their marketing department.

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Speaker 2: Got it. So you did get your New York experience.

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Speaker 2: How long were you at AMEX for?

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Speaker 1: I was at Amex for about three and a half years,

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Speaker 1: and then I started a company in New York. It

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Speaker 1: was the mid nineties or the late nineties. And who

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Speaker 1: didn't start an internet company in the nineties, that's right.

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Speaker 1: And then when that company quickly failed, I moved back

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Speaker 1: to the Bay Area and started working at Charles Schwab.

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Speaker 2: Ah. So you were Schwab for a while, right about

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Speaker 2: ten years? And what was that experience like? You were

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Speaker 2: in product development, strategy, segment management. Tell us about your

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Speaker 2: various roles at Schwap.

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Speaker 1: Schwab was a great place to spend ten years of

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Speaker 1: my career. And one of the things that was so

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Speaker 1: fantastic about it is most of the time I was there,

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Speaker 1: it was growing really quickly, which created a lot of

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Speaker 1: opportunities for me and other folks at Schwab to try

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Speaker 1: different things. And so I started in marketing, active trader marketing,

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Speaker 1: and then I fell in love with the active trader

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Speaker 1: segment of the market. I had an idea that a

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Speaker 1: group of us wanted to try out at Schwab, which

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Speaker 1: was to build a mobile trading application for active traders.

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Speaker 2: What year was that.

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Speaker 1: That was nineteen ninety nine.

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Speaker 2: So long before there was really any sort of smartphones.

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Speaker 2: The BlackBerry was the closest thing, and even that there

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Speaker 2: were no real apps or anything.

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Speaker 1: That's right. I mean, I don't know if you remember this,

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Speaker 1: but the mobile trading applications we built at at Schwab

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Speaker 1: were on phones that had numbers, so if you wanted

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Speaker 1: to enter in a you had to at one once

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Speaker 1: be won twice. And then also pomp pilots. So we

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Speaker 1: used both of those devices to build one of the

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Speaker 1: first mobile trading applications ever and it was It was

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Speaker 1: a great experience. And then I fell in love with

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Speaker 1: technology and product development, moved from there to strategy, then

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Speaker 1: moved from there to investment product development, worked on Schwab's

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Speaker 1: first ETF offerings, their equity mutual funds, fixed income mutual funds,

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Speaker 1: and then when I decided to leave Schwab, I went

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Speaker 1: to Pershing and worked on investment platforms.

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Speaker 2: Another very substantial custodian. Yes, what was your experience like

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Speaker 2: at Pershing after Schwab, which is just such a unique

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Speaker 2: animal in the investment world.

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Speaker 1: You know, Pershing's is a different custodian. They have different emphasis,

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Speaker 1: they serve a different clients.

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Speaker 2: Site, little bit higher end.

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Speaker 1: No, they tend to be or at least at the time,

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Speaker 1: we're very much focused on clearing for the broker dealers

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Speaker 1: versus Schwab that was more focused on the rias Pershing

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Speaker 1: does both than When I was brought into, Pershing was

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Speaker 1: hired to help the ra part of the business and

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Speaker 1: the broker dealer part of the business. And they wanted

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Speaker 1: to ensure that they had the investment platforms they needed

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Speaker 1: to compete globally. So built in a retirement offering, an

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Speaker 1: insurance offering, expanded their mutual fund offering, expanded their etf offering.

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Speaker 1: It was great, great job.

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Speaker 2: To choice is good. So Schwab to Pershing and then

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Speaker 2: you end up at asset Mark for just about a

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Speaker 2: decade and you had a lot of roles there, chief

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Speaker 2: commercialization officer, chief solution officer. Tell us about your professional

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Speaker 2: experience at asset Mark.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So at asset Mark when I was brought in,

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Speaker 1: I was brought in to help transform the platform and

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Speaker 1: grow it. And the reason the first role was chief

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Speaker 1: Commercialization Officer was because my emphasis was bringing together all

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Speaker 1: of the ps of marketing, promotion, place, price, and people

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Speaker 1: segments into a unified offering. And then once that work

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Speaker 1: was done and we had done that, it was time

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Speaker 1: to expand our markets, expander segments, build a growth strategy,

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Speaker 1: and so I did that as chief solutions officer, and

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Speaker 1: then when my predecessor left Asset Mark, I was asked

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Speaker 1: to join a CEO and was CEO there for about

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Speaker 1: two and a half years.

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Speaker 2: How was that experience and how different was being the

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Speaker 2: top of the org chart from being a worker bee

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Speaker 2: a little further down?

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Speaker 1: You know, I love being a CEO. I don't know

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Speaker 1: about you, but I love it. I love being able

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Speaker 1: to lead the team. At Asset Mark I was a

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Speaker 1: public company CEO. I enjoyed working with investors. I enjoyed

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Speaker 1: that aspect of the role. And one thing about being

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Speaker 1: a CEO versus you know, being a chief solutions officer,

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Speaker 1: chief commercialization officer, you spend a lot of your time

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Speaker 1: outside the company as well as inside the company. So

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Speaker 1: we still spend a lot of time with your clients,

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Speaker 1: which you do at every level of the organization. I

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Speaker 1: believe you also spend time with investors, with other aspects

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Speaker 1: of the industry, a little bit more time on strategy

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Speaker 1: and innovation, and that's an exciting part of the role,

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Speaker 1: representing your firm and its success to investors, to potential partners.

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Speaker 2: And then from Asset Mark in October twenty twenty three,

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Speaker 2: you're recruited to become CEO at O'rian tell us a

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Speaker 2: little bit about what that process was, and let's delve

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Speaker 2: a little bit into what Orian actually does.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so, I have been a long time admirer of Orian,

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Speaker 1: just as a trendsetter and an innovator in the industry,

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Speaker 1: both in technology and wealth services. When Eric announced that

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Speaker 1: he was going to be departing, Eric being the previous

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Speaker 1: CEO and founder, Eric Clark. When he announced in I

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Speaker 1: guess it would have been last spring that he was

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Speaker 1: leaving the firm, the executive chairman of the board, Charles Goldman,

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Speaker 1: reached out to me asked if I would be interested.

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Speaker 1: He and I had a few conversations before I decided

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Speaker 1: that it was something I wanted to do, and I

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Speaker 1: really believe that Orian has the potential to make a

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Speaker 1: huge impact on the industry. You know, met the board

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Speaker 1: really liked to what they had to say about plans

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Speaker 1: for Orian, spent some time with Eric. Was very important

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Speaker 1: to me that Eric was a big part of picking

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Speaker 1: the future CEO, and it's been fantastic since then.

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Speaker 2: So I know Orian for many years because from the

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Speaker 2: RIA perspective, from a registered investment advisor perspective, clients want

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Speaker 2: to know how their portfolios are doing, what their performances,

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Speaker 2: both in absolute terms and relative to benchmarks, and you

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Speaker 2: want an outside third party doing it as opposed to

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Speaker 2: someone just telling the client yeah, yeah, you're doing great.

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Speaker 2: You really want to see the numbers, and you want

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Speaker 2: to know that a trusted objective third party is running that,

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Speaker 2: not the person who you're trusting to manage the money.

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Speaker 2: That's the core role I think of when I think

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Speaker 2: of Orian, But there are a lot of other things

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Speaker 2: the firm does tell us about the various roles and

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Speaker 2: responsibilities Orian has within the RIA industry.

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Speaker 1: You're right that the heritage of Orian is por ffolio counting,

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Speaker 1: trading and reporting. That's kind of at the heart of

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Speaker 1: what O, where Ryan came from, how it was built.

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Speaker 1: Over the course of the last five years, though, Orian

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Speaker 1: has added to that core capability a depth of services

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Speaker 1: and wealth management, everything from portfolio customization through and indexing

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Speaker 1: all the way through fully outsourced portfolios, and so Orian

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Speaker 1: now has a wealth business and a tech business that

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Speaker 1: work together to help financial advisors save time and effort

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Speaker 1: and spend more time with their clients and then on

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Speaker 1: the technology part of the business. Around what we've built

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Speaker 1: around portfolio counting, trading and reporting is the entire advisor

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Speaker 1: interaction with their investor.

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Speaker 2: Meaning how they interface with both Orian and the client themselves.

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Speaker 1: That's right.

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Speaker 2: Tell us a little bit about that.

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Speaker 1: So in the additive services that Orian offers now our

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Speaker 1: financial planning, compliance, CRM services, risk and analysis, portfolio construction,

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Speaker 1: and advisor portal, an investor portal, and clients can choose

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Speaker 1: our clients can choose to use all of it in

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Speaker 1: an integrated way, or they can choose to use a

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Speaker 1: piece of what Orion offers and integrate that into their

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Speaker 1: client experience.

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Speaker 2: So CRM is customer relationship management for people we may

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Speaker 2: not know the acronym. Tell us about the portal, that

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Speaker 2: is the client's interface with their own assets and portfolios,

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Speaker 2: regardless of what platform they're on. Tell us what comes

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Speaker 2: through the portal to the client.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So for the investor client, what comes through the

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Speaker 1: portal is their holdings, their connection between the portfolio and

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Speaker 1: the financial plan, a variety of comparisons that advisors can

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Speaker 1: walk through with the investor about how their portfolio, if

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Speaker 1: the advisor's proposing a new portfolio, how the proposed portfolio

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Speaker 1: compares to the portfolio the investors in. Now we have

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Speaker 1: behavioral finance tools so that the investor can understand their

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Speaker 1: relationship with wealth and their risk tolerance, their needs at

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Speaker 1: a greater level of detail, and they can compare that

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Speaker 1: to that of their spouse, and then also compare that

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Speaker 1: to the portfolio that the advisor is recommending. The advisor's portal,

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Speaker 1: in contrast, has portfolio construction tools, sophisticated reporting tools, workflow management,

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Speaker 1: the dashboards that help the advisor understand the strength of

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Speaker 1: their business and the strength of their relationships with their clients.

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Speaker 1: And again, you can choose to just use Ryan for

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Speaker 1: reporting that's great, or you can choose to use Oryan

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Speaker 1: for more depending on the size of the advisor and

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Speaker 1: the degree with which they want to control their clients experience.

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Speaker 2: Huh, that's really intriguing. So you've been at the firm

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Speaker 2: now for barely eight months. What changes have you begun

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Speaker 2: implementing or have you just kind of started out with

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Speaker 2: a little bit of a listening tour and picking up

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Speaker 2: some surveillance about what's actually been going on before you

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Speaker 2: join the company.

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Speaker 1: In the first ninety days, I absolutely did a listening tour.

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Speaker 1: I talked to as many financial advisor clients as I

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Speaker 1: possibly could. In fact, in my very first day, I

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Speaker 1: talked to our top twenty clients, reached out to them,

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Speaker 1: wanted to let them know that I was interested in

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Speaker 1: hearing from them. And then for that first ninety days,

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Speaker 1: I made sure that I talked to as many clients

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Speaker 1: as I could. I also want an internal listening tour.

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Speaker 1: Wanted to get to know the team. You know, I'd

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Speaker 1: been at my previous firm for ten years and so

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Speaker 1: everyone knew me. I knew everyone in the firm. I

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Speaker 1: knewho top performers were, how we were organized. I had

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Speaker 1: to learned that about Orian. Get to know the team,

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Speaker 1: Understand how we were organized, understand what they enjoyed about

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Speaker 1: working with Oryan, if there are any opportunities. And so

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Speaker 1: after that first ninety days, I started looking at things

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Speaker 1: that we could prioritize a little differently. Eric Clark, the

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Speaker 1: founder of Oriyan, you know, he's an incredible CEO. At

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Speaker 1: the same time, you know, I personally felt that we

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Speaker 1: need to emphasize put a little bit more emphasis on

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Speaker 1: building a client service model, making sure that we were

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Speaker 1: developing for scale, putting in place services that are highly

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Speaker 1: flexible and integratable, and so pivoted just slightly to make

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Speaker 1: sure that we were focusing on the information and the

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Speaker 1: data and the accessibility to it, so that we could

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Speaker 1: get to a place where whether clients wanted to use

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Speaker 1: us for micro services or want to use us for

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Speaker 1: holistic technology, we can integrate that into their client experience

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Speaker 1: in a way that saves advisor's time.

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Speaker 2: Let's talk a little bit about the transition that you undertook.

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Speaker 2: You followed Eric Clark, who was not only a long

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Speaker 2: standing CEO, he was the company founder. How challenging is

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Speaker 2: it to take over from a founder?

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Speaker 1: You know, the first thing I'll say about that is

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Speaker 1: it's a big change for the team and the clients.

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Speaker 1: You know, anytime a founder decides to move on to

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Speaker 1: their next chapter, it just creates uncertainty, and both the

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Speaker 1: team as well as clients just want to make sure

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Speaker 1: that you're committed to the same purpose, that you're committed

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Speaker 1: to the same level of service that they've come to

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Speaker 1: expect from the predecessor. And the great news about Eric

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Speaker 1: and me is because Eric was a part of the

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Speaker 1: selection process for me. We knew going in that we

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Speaker 1: were highly aligned on what we think about the market,

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Speaker 1: how we want to serve our clients, where we think

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Speaker 1: the future opportunities are in technology. And so while I've

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Speaker 1: absolutely adjusted the strategy slightly to focus more on integrations,

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Speaker 1: the heart of Orion remains the same.

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Speaker 2: So Eric, Eric Clark has been called the legend in

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Speaker 2: the RIA community. Tell us a little bit about what

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Speaker 2: makes him so legendary and a little bit about your

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Speaker 2: relationship with him.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so there's no question that Eric is a legend

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Speaker 1: in the RAA community. The reason that he is a

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Speaker 1: legend is because his technology helped power the growth of

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Speaker 1: the industry. He was a visionary and that he saw

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Speaker 1: how much time advisors were on portfolio construction, performance reporting, reconciliation,

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Speaker 1: and how much the ria's interaction with their client could

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Speaker 1: be improved if that work was taken off the advisor's

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Speaker 1: plate and if the advisor had the benefit of those

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Speaker 1: insights to deliver back to their clients. And he built

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Speaker 1: it in a highly innovative way. You know, Eric was

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Speaker 1: very focused on ensuring that right after he built a solution,

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Speaker 1: he started improving it as a result. Right now, Oryan

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Speaker 1: serves about eighty percent of the top rias in the US,

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Speaker 1: and we have four point three trillion in assets that

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Speaker 1: we service. He also is a huge voice of the

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Speaker 1: importance of independent advice, and I am too. So we

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Speaker 1: both believe in independent advice. We both believe in powering

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Speaker 1: rias and the enterprises that serve them, and we both

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Speaker 1: believe that the more time we can give the advisor back,

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Speaker 1: the better off the advisor the investor are. I talked

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Speaker 1: to Eric a couple times week. He's a great thought partner.

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Speaker 1: He's a great person to bounce ideas off of. He

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Speaker 1: reaches out to me sometimes when he has questions. He's

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Speaker 1: still on our board and he's a really great board member,

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Speaker 1: so the relationship is strong and getting stronger every day

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Speaker 1: as we continue to work together. He's a great advisor

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Speaker 1: and partner.

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Speaker 2: So I just have to share a quick Orion story

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Speaker 2: with you, and again, Riddhelts Wealth Management has been using

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Speaker 2: Orion pretty much from day one, but fifteen years or

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Speaker 2: so ago. I just have this vivid recollection of what

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Speaker 2: we had to do every quarter when we weren't on

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Speaker 2: a platform like yours. First we had to get approval

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Speaker 2: for what the performance numbers were for the quarter. Then

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Speaker 2: we would print out documents, which were different for every client,

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Speaker 2: because not every portfolio is identical. Not everybody was in

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Speaker 2: the same set of funds or same set of investments,

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Speaker 2: And so you would print out the cover letter, you

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Speaker 2: would print out the performance letter, and this was quarterly,

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Speaker 2: and everything would get stuck in a Manila envelope and

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Speaker 2: get sent out. And you mentioned behavioral finance earlier. The

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Speaker 2: fascinating takeaway was it turned that quarterly number into a

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Speaker 2: big deal, both emotionally and intellectually. And you know, sometimes

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Speaker 2: the quarter ends strong, sometimes it ends weak, and in

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Speaker 2: the scheme of things, three months is not all that important.

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Speaker 2: And the surprising advantage of moving to a computerized always

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Speaker 2: on system like Orian was that we gave clients, you know,

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Speaker 2: the joke is, you could check your performance twenty four

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Speaker 2: to seven, but please don't check it occasionally, but don't

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Speaker 2: obsess about it. And once you move from that quarterly,

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Speaker 2: you know it was the culmination of three months, and

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Speaker 2: everybody was focused on that number. Suddenly the little squiggles

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Speaker 2: on the chart didn't make that all that big. Difference.

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Speaker 2: People went from freaking out over a quarterly number two, Hey,

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Speaker 2: I have access to this whenever I want. Surprisingly, it

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Speaker 2: becomes less meaningful on a day to day basis when

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Speaker 2: it isn't this big quarterly event.

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Speaker 1: It's true, It's very, very true. And the other interesting

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Speaker 1: thing that's happened more recently is the transition to more

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Speaker 1: personalization in financial services. I mean, we have personalization in

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Speaker 1: every aspect of our lives right now. You can create

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Speaker 1: your own clothing, you can create your own streaming, you

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Speaker 1: can create your own music. Like there's personalization in all

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Speaker 1: aspects of our life, and financial services is catching up,

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Speaker 1: and platforms like Oryan can bring that to the advisor.

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Speaker 1: We can innovate on their behalf. Whether it's through custom

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Speaker 1: portfolios and custom indexing, or it's through expressing values in

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Speaker 1: your portfolios, or it's in how you customize the investor

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Speaker 1: experience you want to create on your white labeled investor portal.

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Speaker 1: Drawing attention to behavioral finance and how you emotionally attached

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Speaker 1: to your wealth and your financial plan versus benchmark based

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Speaker 1: performance is a huge change in the industry and something

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Speaker 1: that orian's a big part of We're pushing the limits

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Speaker 1: of behavioral finance. We're pushing the industry in a direction

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Speaker 1: where it's not just about fulfilling your goals as it

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Speaker 1: relates to wealth, but finding true happiness and giving advisors

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Speaker 1: the tools that they need to have those conversations with

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Speaker 1: their client.

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Speaker 2: So, once you run people through this three or four

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Speaker 2: minute questionnaire the BFI twenty, what spits out the other end.

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Speaker 1: What spits out the other end is your behavioral finance profile.

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Speaker 1: You could be an optimist, maybe your conservative, maybe you're

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Speaker 1: curious about investing, And then you can contrast what makes

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Speaker 1: you that profile relative to your spouse or relative to

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Speaker 1: your children, so that if it's you and your spouse

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Speaker 1: who are making decisions about money, you understand why you

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Speaker 1: might be in conflict. And then we also give tools

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Speaker 1: to reconcile that conflict, to understand it and to reconcile

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Speaker 1: the conflict. And then we also use AI so that

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Speaker 1: the advisor can send communications first draft communications to clients

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Speaker 1: in different market environments and important parts of their financial

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Speaker 1: planning conversation with their client that understand their profile and

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Speaker 1: include optimal language related to their profile and their portfolio.

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Speaker 1: In those first draft communications.

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Speaker 2: That optimal language is in order to not cause people

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Speaker 2: to misinterpret things. Or we found calling portfolios conservative or

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Speaker 2: aggressive generated a negative response, and so we came up

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Speaker 2: with a different nomenclature for all of our different portfolios.

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Speaker 2: And I'm kind of a space geek, so I love

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Speaker 2: the concept when I first heard it is based on

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Speaker 2: different NASA missions depending on how far out they go,

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Speaker 2: and the Solo system, so left the Solar system that's

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Speaker 2: the most aggressive portfolio. Pioneer a little closer, a little less,

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Speaker 2: a little less aggressive manner the same. But you would

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Speaker 2: be surprised that merely saying to somebody, oh, we have

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Speaker 2: you in a conservative portfolio based on your risk tolerance

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Speaker 2: and goals. I'm not a conservative person. I understand that

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Speaker 2: it's just a loaded and the same thing with aggressive.

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Speaker 2: Hey I'm not an aggressive person. I'm not a big

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Speaker 2: risk taker. No, but you have forty years and you

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Speaker 2: have no other obligation like that conversation. It's so funny

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Speaker 2: how language can be misinterpreted, and behavioral finance really addresses that.

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Speaker 1: It's so true. I mean, words matter, and that's one

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Speaker 1: of the reasons that we don't use aggressive. We use

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Speaker 1: financial optimist because It's about the optimism and the point

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Speaker 1: of view and your willingness to endure draw downs and

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Speaker 1: market change. It's one of the reasons that bucketing is

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Speaker 1: so powerful in financial services. Investors can understand, oh, this

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Speaker 1: is the goals I have for my money for the

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Speaker 1: next one to two years, the goals I have for

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Speaker 1: three to seven, the goals I have for seven plus.

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Speaker 1: And you can have conversations with them about how common

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Speaker 1: drawdowns are and what they're willing to endure and how

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Speaker 1: likely it is that seven years from now based on

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Speaker 1: historical performance. You know they're aggressive. And I hate to

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Speaker 1: use the word aggressive, but there I should say. Equity

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Speaker 1: waiting pays off and it's really exciting work we're doing

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Speaker 1: at Orian, and I think it benefits advisors and helps

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Speaker 1: them bring these tools to their clients at scale.

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Speaker 2: So I'm glad you brought up the word scale. You

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Speaker 2: guys are well over four trillion dollars, well over six

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Speaker 2: million accounts. There has to be massive challenges with scaling

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Speaker 2: that up even larger as you continue to grow. What

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Speaker 2: are the challenges with this, especially as you get deeper

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Speaker 2: into customization where no two arias, no two clients really

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Speaker 2: look exactly alike.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's definitely a challenge, but one that Orion's

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Speaker 1: spends a lot of time and effort on so that

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Speaker 1: our clients, enterprises and oraas don't have to do that

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Speaker 1: on their own. The first is you need to make

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Speaker 1: sure that all the data that the advisors and the

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Speaker 1: enterprises need are accessible twenty four to seven. And to

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Speaker 1: do that we have to invest in data streaming capabilities.

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Speaker 1: And then also we partner with Redshift and Snowflake to

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Speaker 1: provide data access data access capabilities. We invest a lot

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Speaker 1: to make sure that as our clients grow and their

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Speaker 1: needs for information grows, that are tools, whether they be

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Speaker 1: reporting or trading or performance and orientation, meet their needs

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Speaker 1: at different sizes. You know this the industry's consolidating, the

438
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 1: industry scaling up everywhere, and Ryan, we need to be

439
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 1: part of that.

440
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,800
Speaker 2: I have some consolidation questions for you a little later.

441
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 2: I want to stay with the concept of scale. How

442
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:57,800
Speaker 2: do you accommodate everybody who wants this personalizations? Do you

443
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:00,399
Speaker 2: get requests that are like, hey, that's just a little

444
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:04,280
Speaker 2: bit of bridge too far. If we offer that degree

445
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 2: of customization, well then it's going to put other things

446
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:12,919
Speaker 2: at risk. Where's the balance between some uniformity and the

447
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:16,640
Speaker 2: ability to adapt to every customer desire.

448
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,720
Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting in my view, you have to

449
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:25,960
Speaker 1: build your technology or investment solutions with the goal to

450
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:30,239
Speaker 1: be highly customized and highly personalized. If you don't do that,

451
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 1: then the foundation is shaky. And so we want to

452
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:37,879
Speaker 1: make sure that our technology looks and feels like advisors

453
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 1: need it to to be consistent with what they offer,

454
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,679
Speaker 1: either their advisors or their clients. We want to be

455
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 1: sure that our communications tools leverage large language models so

456
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 1: that can be highly personalized. Again, as a first draft

457
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:54,200
Speaker 1: within advisor teams or between the advisor and the investor,

458
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:56,440
Speaker 1: we need to make sure that the channels we're using

459
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,640
Speaker 1: are highly custom You know, I was reading materials when

460
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 1: I joined to Ryan that ninety eight percent of text

461
00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 1: messages are open and responded to in ninety seconds, versus

462
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:10,200
Speaker 1: you know, less than thirty percent of emails that are

463
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 1: responded to within a week, if they're responded to at all.

464
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:15,359
Speaker 1: And so you also have to customize your channels to

465
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 1: make sure that you're benefiting your advisor. You need to

466
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 1: customize look and feel, and if your systems are built

467
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 1: with that in mind, then you can be highly highly flexible.

468
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 2: You mentioned custom indexing before. We found custom indexing to

469
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,160
Speaker 2: be one of the fastest growing parts of our business,

470
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 2: especially for people who and this was a little bit

471
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 2: of a surprise versus how we anticipated this going. People

472
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:44,440
Speaker 2: who are deeply concerned about task loss harvesting. Either they're

473
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 2: selling a business, they have low cost stock or founder stock,

474
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 2: or some other capital gain. They're trying to manage through

475
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:54,439
Speaker 2: highly concentrated position that they want to de risk but

476
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 2: not create a giant tax obligation. How are you finding

477
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 2: the growth of customer and indexing going.

478
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 1: Custom index is growing really fast. It's one of the

479
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:07,160
Speaker 1: fastest growing part of our platform. We have over four

480
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:12,440
Speaker 1: billion in portfolio customization today and when you look at

481
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,480
Speaker 1: the growth rate of the adoption of it, it grows

482
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 1: each quarter that flows into those products grow in the

483
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:23,920
Speaker 1: high double digits, and so we're very, very excited about

484
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 1: the growth of the platform. You mentioned the most important

485
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 1: use case, which is tax management, also tax transition if

486
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 1: you're moving from one provider to another and you want

487
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 1: to manage your tax in the transition. And then the

488
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 1: last is you know, different investors do have different values

489
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:43,159
Speaker 1: and they want to make sure that their portfolios reflect that.

490
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 1: Some it's religious, you know, they want it to reflect

491
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:50,960
Speaker 1: Catholic values or Islamic values. Other times they're very very

492
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 1: focused on governance, and that degree of customization for some

493
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,720
Speaker 1: is incredibly important. Now, obviously the regulators are concerned about

494
00:27:57,760 --> 00:27:59,639
Speaker 1: that too, and so we need to make sure that

495
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:04,680
Speaker 1: our rules are compliant, help our advisors comply, and so we.

496
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 2: Do that two questions. So first custom in next we

497
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 2: use as canvas. Speaking with them, they tell a couple

498
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:16,199
Speaker 2: of really interesting stories. First, on the value side, the

499
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 2: single biggest requests they get no tobacco, no guns, which

500
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:22,639
Speaker 2: kind of surprised me, but I guess it kind of

501
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 2: makes sense. It's a simple adjustment, and if you don't

502
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 2: think you want your capital going to those companies, it's

503
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 2: just a simple boxer check and that's it. It comes

504
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:36,480
Speaker 2: out of the portfolio. They also tell a story about

505
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 2: the New York Catholic Bishop's investment and the ability to

506
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 2: say noah drugs related to abortion or anything that violates

507
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 2: their sense of their rules, their religious beliefs, and it's

508
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 2: easy to make those adjustments. What are you seeing in

509
00:28:56,400 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 2: terms of other use cases? So clearly, tax us harvecing

510
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 2: is a big one. The personalization on the value side

511
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:08,120
Speaker 2: is the other issue. When you talk about governance, how

512
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 2: are people adjusting in that space?

513
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting there's all sorts of research that

514
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 1: boards that are diverse or boards that have certain controls

515
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:23,480
Speaker 1: and processes in place are highly aligned to future success

516
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 1: of the companies. And so when people implement the g

517
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 1: of ESG, what they're really implementing.

518
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:31,240
Speaker 2: Is that how good government How.

519
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 1: Effective is that board in delivering returns to the shareholder.

520
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 1: So that's a common use case. You know. The other

521
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:43,960
Speaker 1: thing I would just mention is that transition where you're

522
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 1: moving from one advisor to another, or are you moving

523
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:48,960
Speaker 1: from one portfolio to another, or in your examples, trying

524
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 1: to transition out of a concentrated position is extremely important

525
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:57,720
Speaker 1: and when managed correctly, can deliver outsized alpha to the investor.

526
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 1: And it it's taxed alpha, tax alpha, and it puts

527
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 1: the advisor, the advisor in a different position with our

528
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 1: client because tax is confusing and complex at something that

529
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 1: most investors avoided all costs, and the advisors able to

530
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 1: talk to the investor about tracking error how close, how

531
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:19,720
Speaker 1: closely you want to track a certain index or how

532
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:23,720
Speaker 1: closely you want to manage that concentrated position relative to

533
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 1: the destination portfolio, and it raises the bar on the

534
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 1: conversation between the advisor and the investor.

535
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 2: You know, our experience has been it's not only complicated,

536
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 2: but tax preparation relative to somebody with a sophisticated set

537
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 2: of portfolio and investment needs is a very specialized niche.

538
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 2: When we launched a decade ago, I never thought we

539
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 2: would open a tax practice, but there were so many

540
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 2: requests for it, and anytime we would review a previous

541
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 2: tax file and we always found almost always found mistakes,

542
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:01,959
Speaker 2: overlooked opportunities. Hey why did you pay thirty percent capital

543
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:04,480
Speaker 2: gains here? You held this for five years? Why didn't

544
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 2: you check this? But hey, this was a qualified investment.

545
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,920
Speaker 2: This should have been in a different category. And so

546
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 2: we had to build that out because the demand is there,

547
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 2: and very often the average accountant just doesn't have the

548
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 2: experience with capital markets. They're leaving a lot of tax

549
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 2: alfa on the table.

550
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 1: It's true, it's true. And the advisor that can deliver

551
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 1: those types of opportunities to the investor has a very

552
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 1: loyal client forever and custom indexing and portfolio customization, whether

553
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 1: it's related to values or hedging or other aspects, is

554
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 1: another way for the advisor to deliver services to the investor.

555
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:44,480
Speaker 1: They have no hope of doing themselves, or no hope

556
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 1: of doing in a self directed way.

557
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,719
Speaker 2: You know, it's amazing. You generate a good return for people,

558
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:53,120
Speaker 2: and it's abstract and theoretical, well, eleven point two versus

559
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 2: ten point eight. You know, you can extrapolate it. You can,

560
00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 2: but hey, here's one hundred thousand dollars in tax savings.

561
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 2: Suddenly it's real money. And even though it's less than

562
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 2: the performance of the portfolio, it doesn't matter. It's so

563
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 2: visceral and real people have such a funny response to taxes.

564
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 2: I guess we've all drank the kool aid that no

565
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 2: one wants to pay more taxes than they have to

566
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 2: save someone some money on taxes their client for life.

567
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 1: That's right, And they see it on the tax forms.

568
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 1: They can actually see it in real time that year

569
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:29,480
Speaker 1: on those.

570
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 2: Tax forms, that quarter so makes a big difference.

571
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 1: It does, it does.

572
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:36,720
Speaker 2: So let's talk a little bit about what's going on

573
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 2: in the industry. Now, there's a lot of flux. There's

574
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 2: a lot of challenges. What are the biggest events you

575
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:48,479
Speaker 2: see coming up? What are the biggest adjustments people in

576
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 2: our industry should be thinking about.

577
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 1: I mean the first is definitely regulation. This is an

578
00:32:54,120 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 1: incredibly active and innovative as it relates to regulation. See

579
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 1: right now, the number of rules that are underway exceeds

580
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 1: recent memory and the reach. The reach of those rules

581
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 1: are extending the reach of the SEC. So you have

582
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 1: the cybersecurity rule, which is incredibly important. There's no one

583
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 1: in the industry that questions the need for this industry

584
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 1: to be very secure.

585
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:20,800
Speaker 2: That's the nightmare scenario.

586
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 1: That's right, and we all need to be focused on

587
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 1: protecting client data and privacy. At Orian, we spend a

588
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 1: lot of time wornest compliant. We also are SOK two

589
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 1: Type two compliant. We have a large team that focuses

590
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 1: on cybersecurity and privacy to make sure that we're not

591
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 1: just understanding the rules that the SEC has in place,

592
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 1: but also what they're interested in and where they're going

593
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 1: with the rules.

594
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 2: Let me let me interrupt you sex. So the biggest

595
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 2: set of changes we've seen recently, have over the past

596
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 2: six months, have been the marketing rules what you can

597
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 2: and can say, even to existing clients, which every now

598
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:01,880
Speaker 2: and then I'm kind of perplexed about, Hey, here's how

599
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:04,880
Speaker 2: these indexes have done over the past couple of years,

600
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 2: and if we just take the past one hundred years average,

601
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 2: here's what we can Monte Carlo simulation, here's what we

602
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 2: can expect. Like that has kind of changed. You have

603
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 2: to be very wary of not showing hypothetical past performance.

604
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 2: I find some of it to be a little confusing,

605
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:26,319
Speaker 2: Like I understand the rules, Hey, you can't make stuff up.

606
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:29,319
Speaker 2: You can't say had you put money with us over

607
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:33,239
Speaker 2: this period, you would have done this perfectly credible. It

608
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 2: seems like around the edges it just goes further than

609
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 2: you think is warranted. So that's been a set of rules.

610
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:42,759
Speaker 2: What are the rule changes are you looking at?

611
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:45,400
Speaker 1: Well, I mean you mentioned the marketing rule, and I

612
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 1: think that that's changed the way performance reporting is calculated

613
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:51,880
Speaker 1: and distributed across the industry, and that clearly impacts around

614
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:55,319
Speaker 1: doubt because performance reporting is a big part of what

615
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:58,879
Speaker 1: we do. In addition to cybersecurity, there's also the third

616
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 1: party rule, which is rias and investment advisors that leverage

617
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 1: third party providers to provide services to their clients. The

618
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 1: proposal is they'll be held accountable to do deep diligence

619
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 1: on those third parties to make sure that their security,

620
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:20,800
Speaker 1: their effectiveness is what the investor expects. And for Oryan,

621
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 1: we want to make sure that we're there to help

622
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:26,680
Speaker 1: our advisors comply. We provide the advisors with the research

623
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 1: they need on us as a third party, and for

624
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:31,359
Speaker 1: the third parties we use at Oriyan. We deliver that

625
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:34,399
Speaker 1: to the advisors so that they can comply. And this

626
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:37,879
Speaker 1: third party rule and the cybersecurity rule, both of those

627
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 1: are aimed at making sure our industry is secure, which

628
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 1: is a great thing, but they introduce a lot of

629
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:46,759
Speaker 1: complexity for financial advisors, and we need to make sure

630
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:50,360
Speaker 1: that we help financial advisors clear that complexity and comply.

631
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:55,279
Speaker 2: We mentioned custom indexing earlier. You suggested there was some

632
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 2: more rule changes about that. When it comes to what

633
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:03,759
Speaker 2: the SEC expects in terms of either value based investing

634
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 2: or governance, what are the changes there. I'm curious about that.

635
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 1: The SEC is incredibly concerned that financial performance is the

636
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 1: primary measure by which the advisor communicates to the investor

637
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:23,880
Speaker 1: their success. They worry that with the introduction of different values,

638
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 1: it's getting in the way of the investor maximizing their

639
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:32,759
Speaker 1: investor performance, their investment performance. And so when I say

640
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:36,320
Speaker 1: that there's regulatory interest in this, it comes down to clarity.

641
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 1: Regulators want to be sure that the investor understands if

642
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:43,360
Speaker 1: they're choosing to implement a particular value that can have

643
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:48,320
Speaker 1: consequences for investment return. And I think that technology providers

644
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 1: like Orion can easily provide those trade offs if you

645
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 1: relax the tracking error constraint, because you don't want to

646
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 1: invest in tobacco, which is a common usage that you mentioned,

647
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:01,839
Speaker 1: and tobacco is a successful part of mark which isn't

648
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 1: exactly true.

649
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:05,680
Speaker 2: Well it was twenty years ago.

650
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 1: But isn't exactly true right now.

651
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 2: So it turns out killing your clients for decades is

652
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 2: a bad strategy.

653
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:13,760
Speaker 1: It does turn out, right, that is true.

654
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:16,200
Speaker 2: It worked for a while, but eventually they all die off.

655
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, and eventually, you know, the new generation wants to

656
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 1: focus on other things. That said, you know, if you're,

657
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 1: as an example, concerned about oil and gas, well that's

658
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 1: been a great part of the market, and by avoiding

659
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:31,240
Speaker 1: that part of the market has consequences for a return.

660
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:34,319
Speaker 1: If you have issues with Tesla for one reason or another, right,

661
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 1: you know, if you eliminate that part of the portfolio,

662
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 1: well then there's consequences for returns. And we just need

663
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:45,120
Speaker 1: to do a good job as an industry of explaining

664
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 1: to our clients that investing consistent with your values is

665
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:52,759
Speaker 1: your choice. But it does relax tracking error. It does

666
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 1: have the potential to create a deviation from your portfolio.

667
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 1: In the benchmarkt right.

668
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:00,439
Speaker 2: There's a couple of really interesting things related to that.

669
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:04,120
Speaker 2: One is, check the box for no tobacco, no guns.

670
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:07,320
Speaker 2: It's like a fraction of a percent. It really doesn't

671
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 2: move the needle. It doesn't make any difference. The other

672
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 2: thing is I never really understood if you're concerned about

673
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 2: the environment, if you're concerned about global warming, going low

674
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:21,720
Speaker 2: carbon seems to be reminds me of the War on drugs,

675
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 2: where we were trying to interdict the supply, but we

676
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:28,839
Speaker 2: just ignored the demand. And I love when you know,

677
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:33,799
Speaker 2: Google and Apple and Microsoft are labeled green companies, they're

678
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:36,920
Speaker 2: some of the biggest consumers of you know, carbon based

679
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:40,520
Speaker 2: energy of anyone out there. Low carbon seems to miss

680
00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:44,080
Speaker 2: the concept if you want to reduce carbon consumption, you

681
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 2: have to not merely address the suppliers, but you have

682
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:51,400
Speaker 2: to address the consumers also. The underlying philosophy of that

683
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 2: just seems fundamentally wrong from an economic standpoint. If you

684
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 2: don't reduce demand, you could do whatever you want with

685
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 2: you know, supplies, They'll find a way to get drugs

686
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:04,279
Speaker 2: into the country as long as the demand is there.

687
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:07,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is definitely true. And the other thing I'll

688
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 1: just say related to that, and this comes back to

689
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 1: the marketing rule and ESG. You also have to make

690
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,480
Speaker 1: sure that the claims you're making are accurate. If you're

691
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 1: saying that your ETF or your investment vehicle is green,

692
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:21,759
Speaker 1: it better be green. And I think that in some

693
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:24,240
Speaker 1: instances the measurement was wrong.

694
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 2: The greenwashing was a big really has been a big issue.

695
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:31,800
Speaker 2: That's right. And you'll we have seen this every time

696
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:36,439
Speaker 2: a new trend comes out, whether it's AI or low

697
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 2: carbon or whatever it is. Do you remember for a

698
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 2: while everybody was trying to turn their companies into a

699
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 2: meta company or whatever the hot trend of the week was.

700
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:53,840
Speaker 2: It finds its way into the quarterly reports regardless of

701
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:55,759
Speaker 2: whether there's any truth to it or not.

702
00:39:56,239 --> 00:39:58,759
Speaker 1: Yes, it's true. And what it all comes back to

703
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 1: for me as it relates to values and customization is

704
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 1: the original The originator of these ideas were actually religions,

705
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:10,680
Speaker 1: and if you're investing consistent with a Catholic faith, you

706
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:14,960
Speaker 1: better be investing consistent with that religion. We should hold

707
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:17,840
Speaker 1: all values based portfolios to the same standards.

708
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:21,319
Speaker 2: Maybe it was Calvert was the first mutual fund that

709
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:25,839
Speaker 2: had Catholic value based investing as its core, but they

710
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:29,960
Speaker 2: were they were doing this because there was a demand

711
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:34,239
Speaker 2: from those investors who said, we don't want a B

712
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 2: or C because it's not consistent with our belief system.

713
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 2: I would like to see the SEC make sure that

714
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:45,360
Speaker 2: the management companies are true to the underlying belief system.

715
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:47,319
Speaker 2: But I don't know how much further you can go.

716
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:50,760
Speaker 2: If someone says I don't like Facebook or I don't

717
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 2: like Tesla as a client, and as long as the

718
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:58,520
Speaker 2: advisor isn't making any promises about that, Hey, this has

719
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:01,040
Speaker 2: had a giant run up and it's giant sell off

720
00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 2: and it's at a partial recovery, and we can't tell

721
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:05,200
Speaker 2: you what this is going to do in the future.

722
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 2: But if you don't want these. If you tell us

723
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:10,520
Speaker 2: this is on your do not own list, I don't

724
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:13,439
Speaker 2: care if the client wants that, they just have to recognize, hey,

725
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:16,319
Speaker 2: it's a big company and it could impact their performance.

726
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:19,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know. And the tools that the advisors use,

727
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:23,359
Speaker 1: like oriyan should make it easy for them to communicate

728
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 1: to clients the percentage of total S and p returns

729
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 1: that have come from tech. And you never know exactly

730
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:32,680
Speaker 1: which tech companies are going to deliver those returns. But

731
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:36,719
Speaker 1: by ignoring Facebook or ignoring Tesla for reasons that are

732
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:39,879
Speaker 1: personal to you, you may give up that kind of return.

733
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:42,879
Speaker 2: Right, I mean, just up to the investor. That's exactly right.

734
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 2: So you mentioned large language models and we danced around AI.

735
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 2: Let's talk a little bit about that. How can you,

736
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:56,360
Speaker 2: as a technology provider to the wealth management industry integrate

737
00:41:56,760 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 2: artificial intelligence into your offerings?

738
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 1: So at Orion, we've integrated it in two parts of

739
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:06,239
Speaker 1: our offering. The first is our client relationship management system REDTAEL.

740
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:09,280
Speaker 1: We have an offering called redtail Speak, and what redtail

741
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 1: Speak does is it delivers the advisors' messages both internally

742
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:18,200
Speaker 1: and externally to investors and to teammates via text and

743
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 1: one of the things that the AI does as it

744
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 1: relates to redtail speak, is it creates text messages between

745
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:28,759
Speaker 1: advisors and investors first drafts. The advisor has to take

746
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:30,680
Speaker 1: a look at it and make sure that everything's accurate

747
00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:34,400
Speaker 1: based on the text based exchanges that the advisor and

748
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:37,879
Speaker 1: the investor have had in the past, and we think

749
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:41,120
Speaker 1: it has a lot of promise because it reduces the

750
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 1: amount of time it takes advisors to communicate with their

751
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:47,880
Speaker 1: clients in a personalized way. The second area of orian

752
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:51,120
Speaker 1: solution that we offer AI, and we've experimented with AI,

753
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:55,840
Speaker 1: is in our portfolio comparison tool, where you bring in clients'

754
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:59,600
Speaker 1: behavioral profile, bring in their risk tolerance and metrics around

755
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:02,440
Speaker 1: their risk tolerance, and you compare the portfolio they have

756
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:06,200
Speaker 1: today to the portfolio that the advisor is proposing. And

757
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:09,680
Speaker 1: part of those conversations between the advisor and the investor,

758
00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:12,759
Speaker 1: you know, this is back and forth when the advisor

759
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:16,359
Speaker 1: wants to ensure the investor understands something, the investor wants

760
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 1: to ask advisors questions, and so what we deliver is

761
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:22,880
Speaker 1: first draft communications between the advisor and the investor at

762
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:26,120
Speaker 1: the time of comparison and then also at specific market

763
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:30,200
Speaker 1: events that the investor may find troubling if their risk averse,

764
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:34,520
Speaker 1: or they might be opportunities if they're an optimistic investor.

765
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 1: We're also testing at Orion knowledge management systems for our

766
00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 1: own service teams and for our own developers to see

767
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:45,400
Speaker 1: if we can get more rapid speed to answer, more

768
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:48,279
Speaker 1: accurate speed to answer in our service teams. What we

769
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:51,960
Speaker 1: learn in those tests will want to share with financial

770
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:56,239
Speaker 1: advisors because potentially the models that we're developing will have

771
00:43:56,320 --> 00:44:00,120
Speaker 1: application outside of Orion too. But that's work that's underway.

772
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:04,920
Speaker 2: Mentioned Redtail speak, we briefly alluded to consolidation in the industry.

773
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:09,719
Speaker 2: I know Redtail as a standalone CRM. Obviously you guys

774
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:12,440
Speaker 2: acquired them a couple of years ago. What are you

775
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 2: seeing in terms of consolidation both within the RIA industry

776
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:21,000
Speaker 2: itself and then with the universe of service providers that

777
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:22,800
Speaker 2: are part of that ecosystem.

778
00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:28,319
Speaker 1: There has been a tremendous amount of consolidation among advisors.

779
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:35,160
Speaker 1: Independence has been a winning model in the marketplace for

780
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:36,600
Speaker 1: the last two decades.

781
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:39,000
Speaker 2: Like tofine what you mean by independence as opposed to

782
00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:41,560
Speaker 2: being part of a big bulge bracket.

783
00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:44,719
Speaker 1: Farm financial advisors who are either affiliated in a ten

784
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:47,600
Speaker 1: ninety nine relationship with a broker dealer or are purely

785
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 1: independent meeting their entrepreneurs. They have their own ria, and

786
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:54,719
Speaker 1: they're regulated differently. Those two segments of the market are

787
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:59,920
Speaker 1: the fastest growing advice models because investors value local, un

788
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:02,919
Speaker 1: biased advice in their community.

789
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:06,880
Speaker 2: Are we discussing fiduciary Are we just discussing fiduciary? Okay,

790
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:11,799
Speaker 2: so that's a key challenge. I'm a fiduciary, A big

791
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:14,799
Speaker 2: chunk of the industry is not, and I have been

792
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:21,239
Speaker 2: utterly wrong thinking it would eventually dominate everything. Although there

793
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:24,520
Speaker 2: are some trends that suggest we're moving in that direction.

794
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:27,360
Speaker 1: I think we're moving in the direction a lot slower

795
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:28,640
Speaker 1: than many of us thought.

796
00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:31,239
Speaker 2: Yes, it's like twenty years ago it should have been done,

797
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:33,440
Speaker 2: and here we are in twenty twenty four and it's

798
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:35,240
Speaker 2: still a subject of debate.

799
00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:38,919
Speaker 1: I do think though, that regulators are stepping their way

800
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:44,920
Speaker 1: there with REGBI, with the form CRS. Tiptoeing into a

801
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:49,360
Speaker 1: fiduciary model where investors understand any conflicts is where we

802
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:52,840
Speaker 1: are now, where the SEC is now. It is my

803
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:55,520
Speaker 1: hope and expectation that the industry will eventually get to

804
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:56,680
Speaker 1: a fiduciary standard.

805
00:45:56,840 --> 00:46:00,399
Speaker 2: Right an on a related issue, you're on the board

806
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:05,360
Speaker 2: of advisors for the CFP parent company, tell us a

807
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:06,959
Speaker 2: little bit about what you do with them.

808
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:10,360
Speaker 1: So I was until very recently on the board of

809
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:14,919
Speaker 1: directors for the CFP board and what and.

810
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:17,239
Speaker 2: This is a certified financial planner, that's right.

811
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:22,320
Speaker 1: And I believe that the CFP, the certification for financial planners,

812
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:27,480
Speaker 1: is a great indication of the quality and education advisors

813
00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:30,160
Speaker 1: have and can deliver to their clients. I'm also a

814
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 1: believer that we need to bring diversity into our industry.

815
00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:36,480
Speaker 1: We need to educate and attract talent to the industry

816
00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 1: because it's inside colleges and universities. Financial planning isn't a

817
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:43,480
Speaker 1: profession that's well known or well understood.

818
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:45,960
Speaker 2: It is offered in a few schools, right it is?

819
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:48,440
Speaker 1: It definitely is. And so while I was on the

820
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:52,880
Speaker 1: CFP board board of Directors, the board was very focused

821
00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 1: on raising the awareness of the CFP certification, raising the

822
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:02,680
Speaker 1: entry rates of the industry for young professionals, and increasing

823
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:08,000
Speaker 1: diversity either through mid career transfers or degree programs at universities.

824
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:10,840
Speaker 1: And that was to feel really proud of what we

825
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:14,000
Speaker 1: did at the CFP Board the four years I was there.

826
00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:15,320
Speaker 1: It's a great organization.

827
00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:18,440
Speaker 2: It's interesting because when you look at the average age

828
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:23,279
Speaker 2: of the typical advisor and amongst the CFP community, it's

829
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:25,200
Speaker 2: kind of a hole in the donut. You have lots

830
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:28,000
Speaker 2: of folks sixty plus. I think the average age is

831
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:30,799
Speaker 2: like sixty two, some crazy numbers. It is too and

832
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:33,640
Speaker 2: while there's a new crop of cfps coming in in

833
00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:37,279
Speaker 2: their twenties and thirties, there's definitely that gap between those

834
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:38,359
Speaker 2: two generations.

835
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:42,399
Speaker 1: You know, it's really interesting. So my hypothesis about why

836
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:46,120
Speaker 1: that donut exists is the big recruiting classes of the

837
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:51,839
Speaker 1: wirehouses diminished over that time period. And so you know,

838
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:55,000
Speaker 1: whether it's wirehouses or insurance companies, they used to be

839
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:59,360
Speaker 1: the trainers of our industry, and they had segment strategies

840
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:01,000
Speaker 1: that led them to the upper end of the market,

841
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:05,120
Speaker 1: and it just wasn't as much new entry into the industry.

842
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:08,400
Speaker 1: As it relates to the age of advisors, something that

843
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:11,480
Speaker 1: I talk about at Orion all the time and publicly too,

844
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:16,279
Speaker 1: is right now there's one hundred and six thousand or

845
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:20,880
Speaker 1: so financial advisors that over the next ten years, in

846
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:24,040
Speaker 1: one way or another, are likely to transition out of

847
00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:26,880
Speaker 1: the industry. One hundred and six.

848
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 2: Thousand, that's out of four hundred thousand or.

849
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:31,120
Speaker 1: Something of three hundred thousand, really.

850
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:33,680
Speaker 2: A third over the next decade. That's amazing, it is.

851
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:38,359
Speaker 1: And the retirement of financial advisors something's been talked about

852
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:44,160
Speaker 1: for many years. At the same time, there's great exit

853
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:47,360
Speaker 1: ramps for advisors right now, either through consolidation and purchase

854
00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:50,840
Speaker 1: of their business or reducing their ownership of their revenue,

855
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:55,240
Speaker 1: becoming part of bigger advisory firms, and then sunsetting their careers.

856
00:48:56,480 --> 00:48:58,640
Speaker 1: And so if you look at the assets controlled by

857
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:00,839
Speaker 1: those one hundred and six thousand or so advisors, there's

858
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:03,880
Speaker 1: about eleven point nine trillion, wow, which is more than

859
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:08,319
Speaker 1: our whole industry serves today, meaning the independent advisors. And

860
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:13,440
Speaker 1: so the opportunity to help advisors be consolidate orders to

861
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:16,480
Speaker 1: benefit from these these trends in the industries right now,

862
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:18,680
Speaker 1: and I think Orian's in a great place to do that.

863
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:23,480
Speaker 2: Huh. Really quite fascinating. We talked about cybersecurity as a

864
00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:28,279
Speaker 2: large concern as the nightmare scenario, and we were just

865
00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:31,880
Speaker 2: talking about AI. The first question is how do you

866
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:37,400
Speaker 2: keep your financial technology platform safe? And second, seems like

867
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:39,640
Speaker 2: there's an arms race between the good guys and the

868
00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:45,759
Speaker 2: bad guys using AI to penetrate through cybersecurity defenses.

869
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:50,160
Speaker 1: Absolutely, you know, and companies, all companies need to be

870
00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:54,000
Speaker 1: vigilant every single minute of every single day. We all

871
00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:56,400
Speaker 1: need to invest a lot in cybersecurity. We need to

872
00:49:56,480 --> 00:50:01,560
Speaker 1: learn from the innovation and the evolution of attacks and protocols,

873
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:03,960
Speaker 1: and at Orian we have a large team doing that

874
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:07,520
Speaker 1: every day. I mentioned earlier that we were NISSED compliant

875
00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:11,520
Speaker 1: and sock to type two. We use third party penetration

876
00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:14,680
Speaker 1: tests because the most vulnerable part of any system, the

877
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:18,160
Speaker 1: most vulnerable part of any system is your team, and

878
00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:20,160
Speaker 1: so you need to make sure that you're educating them

879
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:22,480
Speaker 1: along the way, which we are at Orion.

880
00:50:23,239 --> 00:50:28,879
Speaker 2: It's the human failure that's almost always the softest part

881
00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:34,520
Speaker 2: of the armor. And if you can engineer around a person,

882
00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:41,279
Speaker 2: you can penetrate almost anything. People surprisingly reveal, Like I

883
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:44,239
Speaker 2: keep reading about these stories about someone will get a

884
00:50:44,239 --> 00:50:46,960
Speaker 2: phone call or an email, Hey I can't get in,

885
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:49,800
Speaker 2: can you log me in? And it's not a person,

886
00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:53,560
Speaker 2: it's an AI generated voice, And you'd be surprised how

887
00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:55,160
Speaker 2: people kind of fall for that.

888
00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:58,399
Speaker 1: And you think about in our industry not so much,

889
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:01,560
Speaker 1: but in other industries, how much of it is biometric?

890
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:07,560
Speaker 1: Your face, your fingerprint, your voice, and all of that

891
00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:11,759
Speaker 1: is replicable by AI. So you need you need to

892
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:13,719
Speaker 1: ensure that your protocols are ahead of that.

893
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:17,960
Speaker 2: So the other thing we haven't talked about are alt's

894
00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:22,839
Speaker 2: venture capital, private equity, crypto. How does that fit into

895
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:26,520
Speaker 2: your platform? How do these and other tradable or investable

896
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:30,760
Speaker 2: assets work with the services you provide to the advisor community.

897
00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:34,719
Speaker 1: You know, as it relates to new investment types. Just

898
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:38,800
Speaker 1: like we're investing in understanding new technologies, whether it's AI

899
00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:42,400
Speaker 1: or large language models or biometrics, we need to do

900
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:45,560
Speaker 1: the same with investing. So right now, I think everyone

901
00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:49,360
Speaker 1: should be thinking a lot about tokenization. You can securitize anything.

902
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:56,799
Speaker 1: We should be thinking a lot about accessibility and liquidity

903
00:51:57,000 --> 00:52:01,200
Speaker 1: of assets that are non standard, whether that's crypto or

904
00:52:01,239 --> 00:52:05,440
Speaker 1: alternative investments. We should be making these asset types more

905
00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:08,760
Speaker 1: easily accessible, more easy to evaluate, and easy to hold

906
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:12,600
Speaker 1: in a portfolio. And that's all of those things are

907
00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:14,520
Speaker 1: things we're exploring a oryan right now.

908
00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:17,520
Speaker 2: So last big question before I get to my favorite

909
00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:20,640
Speaker 2: questions I ask all of my guests, is you obviously

910
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:24,160
Speaker 2: have a big job ahead. You're kind of now got

911
00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:27,080
Speaker 2: your feet wet, You're sliding into the job, You're in

912
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:30,359
Speaker 2: a comfortable place. What are the challenges you're looking at?

913
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:32,959
Speaker 2: What do you want to do to take Oryan to

914
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:33,760
Speaker 2: the next level.

915
00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:36,000
Speaker 1: There's so many things I want to do with Orian.

916
00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:38,680
Speaker 1: I think the most important one though, job number one

917
00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:41,880
Speaker 1: for me. To me, one of the biggest challenges we

918
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:47,239
Speaker 1: faced in financial services is a fragmented offering that we

919
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:51,520
Speaker 1: deliver to financial advisors and to investors. And the reasons

920
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:54,680
Speaker 1: for that fragmentation is we're such a creative industry. People

921
00:52:54,719 --> 00:52:57,000
Speaker 1: have an idea, they build a technology, they have an idea,

922
00:52:57,040 --> 00:53:00,640
Speaker 1: they build an investment solution, and that fragmentation creates real

923
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:05,359
Speaker 1: challenges for financial advisors, either challenges and ensuring that they're

924
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:08,920
Speaker 1: diligencing and building optimal portfolios on the investment side of

925
00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:12,640
Speaker 1: the equation, or that they have technology they can actually

926
00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:16,680
Speaker 1: leverage on the technology side of the equation. My favorite statistic,

927
00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:20,479
Speaker 1: and I think the true opportunity for Oryan is that

928
00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:25,239
Speaker 1: if you look at Jdpower results ninety percent of advisors

929
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:29,359
Speaker 1: know they need to use technology, only little less than

930
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:33,480
Speaker 1: fifty percent actually find the technology they use useful, and

931
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:37,040
Speaker 1: only ten percent of advisors is from our wealth Tech survey.

932
00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:40,920
Speaker 1: Less than ten percent feel the technology that they have

933
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:45,479
Speaker 1: today is sufficient, and the reason for that is it's

934
00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:50,320
Speaker 1: very functionalized. You have your reporting system, and that reporting

935
00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:52,680
Speaker 1: system may or may not be integrated into your trading,

936
00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:55,359
Speaker 1: and that trading may or may not be integrated into

937
00:53:55,360 --> 00:53:58,239
Speaker 1: your portfolio construction, which may or may not be integrated

938
00:53:58,239 --> 00:54:02,360
Speaker 1: into your performance report or your investor portal. And so

939
00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:06,000
Speaker 1: I believe the biggest opportunity for ORYAN is to break

940
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:09,880
Speaker 1: those barriers down, to integrate those solutions and save advisors

941
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:11,520
Speaker 1: a lot of time and a lot of effort.

942
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:16,360
Speaker 2: So I have to follow up with those stats. Half

943
00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:20,319
Speaker 2: of advisors or is it advisors say half of the

944
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:23,320
Speaker 2: technology they use doesn't deliver.

945
00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:26,960
Speaker 1: Less than fifty percent of financial advisors say the technology

946
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:29,319
Speaker 1: they use isn't as useful as it could be.

947
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:32,960
Speaker 2: I mean, we live and die on technology. And while

948
00:54:33,480 --> 00:54:36,560
Speaker 2: you know, I personally hate typing on glass and I

949
00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:39,279
Speaker 2: could come up with show me a technology, I'll give you.

950
00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:43,719
Speaker 2: Here's what the downside of is. The upside is we're

951
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:47,280
Speaker 2: so much more productive. We can do so many more things,

952
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:50,120
Speaker 2: so much more quickly, so much more efficiently than we

953
00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:52,920
Speaker 2: used to it, while none of the tech we use

954
00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:56,600
Speaker 2: is perfect. I'm I guess it's the gray hair. I've

955
00:54:56,600 --> 00:54:59,640
Speaker 2: been doing it long enough that I can remember going

956
00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:03,080
Speaker 2: back to what we talked about earlier, the quarterly printing

957
00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:07,319
Speaker 2: out everybody's performance statement and then jamming them one by

958
00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:11,279
Speaker 2: one into Manila envelopes. I remember like five of us

959
00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:16,120
Speaker 2: sitting around six o'clock at night on whatever. The first

960
00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:18,800
Speaker 2: of the next quarter, first day of the next quarter

961
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:22,239
Speaker 2: was just with everything laid out because you couldn't even

962
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:25,880
Speaker 2: do it until the quarter ended, and at a certain

963
00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:29,000
Speaker 2: you had to generate everything and print it out. The

964
00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:32,280
Speaker 2: whole process took like three days, and it was literally

965
00:55:32,719 --> 00:55:38,160
Speaker 2: stuffing statements into envelopes. It was just horrific. So I

966
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:42,359
Speaker 2: don't know. Is it a function of expectations. I'm surprised

967
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:48,040
Speaker 2: that that many people find their technology not meaningful to them.

968
00:55:48,239 --> 00:55:50,680
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's interesting. I do think you're right

969
00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:55,640
Speaker 1: about if your benchmark is the paper quarterly reports that

970
00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:58,400
Speaker 1: used to go out six weeks after quarter end.

971
00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:01,560
Speaker 2: We were good. We were like two three weeks after, right,

972
00:56:01,680 --> 00:56:03,919
Speaker 2: not too bad then. And by the way, if we're late,

973
00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:04,719
Speaker 2: the phone is.

974
00:56:04,680 --> 00:56:07,960
Speaker 1: Ringing, that's right, then today's technology looks pretty good. If

975
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:11,680
Speaker 1: your benchmark is your iPhone then and all the apps

976
00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:15,000
Speaker 1: and how integrated they are on the iPhone, then financial

977
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:18,600
Speaker 1: services technology has a long way to go. And so

978
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:22,720
Speaker 1: what I believe is because of advancements and data streaming

979
00:56:22,760 --> 00:56:28,960
Speaker 1: and data access, and because of advancements in how technologies

980
00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:31,520
Speaker 1: can work together. As an industry, we can be more

981
00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:35,600
Speaker 1: integrated where the client conversation between the advisor and the

982
00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:39,120
Speaker 1: investor is at the center of the client experience. We

983
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:47,040
Speaker 1: offer versus the function you're trying to provoid perform trading, rebalancing, reporting,

984
00:56:47,160 --> 00:56:48,280
Speaker 1: which is where we're organized.

985
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:51,400
Speaker 2: Right. So I see on a lot of people's phone

986
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:55,920
Speaker 2: the Bloomberg app. There's a Schwab app. Tell us about

987
00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:57,080
Speaker 2: the Orion app.

988
00:56:57,640 --> 00:57:02,120
Speaker 1: So we offer an app to finances and investors where

989
00:57:02,160 --> 00:57:06,600
Speaker 1: they can see their investment performance, they can see communications

990
00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:10,759
Speaker 1: from the financial advisor, they can see the performance of

991
00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:15,280
Speaker 1: their portfolios, they can engage with their behavioral finance profile.

992
00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:18,760
Speaker 1: It's just incredibly important for investors to have access to

993
00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:21,520
Speaker 1: information about their accounts all day, every day.

994
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:24,840
Speaker 2: Are you finding clients use those regularly or do they

995
00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:28,800
Speaker 2: wait for the next fifteen percent renown before they start

996
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:30,320
Speaker 2: tapping the screen.

997
00:57:30,760 --> 00:57:32,600
Speaker 1: You know, you'll have to tell me what your experience

998
00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:35,600
Speaker 1: is on this. I'd be interested. What I find is

999
00:57:35,640 --> 00:57:40,320
Speaker 1: that investors interact with their portfolios more when things are

1000
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:42,919
Speaker 1: going well, and then they set the high water mark

1001
00:57:43,080 --> 00:57:47,919
Speaker 1: of performance, and then as portfolios get more and more

1002
00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:50,680
Speaker 1: distressed in a draw down environment, they look at it

1003
00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:51,600
Speaker 1: less and less well.

1004
00:57:51,640 --> 00:57:53,680
Speaker 2: The old joke is no one opened their statements during

1005
00:57:53,720 --> 00:57:59,640
Speaker 2: the financial crisis. That's not that far from our experience.

1006
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:02,760
Speaker 2: I will tell you we spend an awful lot of

1007
00:58:02,800 --> 00:58:06,959
Speaker 2: time before someone becomes a client. We were fortunate enough

1008
00:58:07,000 --> 00:58:10,080
Speaker 2: to launch in twenty thirteen, which was a great you know,

1009
00:58:10,600 --> 00:58:12,920
Speaker 2: start of a new bowl market and a great decade

1010
00:58:12,960 --> 00:58:15,760
Speaker 2: ahead of it. But we spend a lot of time

1011
00:58:15,840 --> 00:58:18,720
Speaker 2: warning clients, hey, thirteen percent of year is whatever the

1012
00:58:18,760 --> 00:58:22,520
Speaker 2: average was for the twenty tens, thirteen fourteen percent, not

1013
00:58:22,520 --> 00:58:25,600
Speaker 2: not our performance, but the SMP. We spend a lot

1014
00:58:25,640 --> 00:58:29,400
Speaker 2: of time warning people this is aberrational. This is way

1015
00:58:29,440 --> 00:58:34,080
Speaker 2: above eight nine percent historical average. You should your return

1016
00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:38,000
Speaker 2: expectations should be ratcheted down. Take the wins when they

1017
00:58:38,040 --> 00:58:41,720
Speaker 2: show up, but don't get too used to fourteen percent

1018
00:58:41,720 --> 00:58:44,240
Speaker 2: a year. You're probably not going to see that. You know,

1019
00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:47,600
Speaker 2: It's funny people freaked out during twenty twenty two stocks

1020
00:58:47,600 --> 00:58:51,840
Speaker 2: and bonds both down. The following year you have the

1021
00:58:51,920 --> 00:58:55,760
Speaker 2: SMP up double digits and the Nasdaq up big double digits.

1022
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:58,280
Speaker 2: I think it was twenty five and fifty respectively, some

1023
00:58:58,360 --> 00:59:01,840
Speaker 2: crazy number like that. And you know, again, it's the

1024
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:07,320
Speaker 2: same conversation, lower your expectations. Don't think that this is usual.

1025
00:59:07,720 --> 00:59:11,240
Speaker 2: So we really try to make sure clients know, hey,

1026
00:59:11,320 --> 00:59:14,520
Speaker 2: eight nine percent is great, if you get that fantastic.

1027
00:59:15,040 --> 00:59:18,520
Speaker 2: What I find during draw downs is that prospective clients

1028
00:59:19,080 --> 00:59:21,840
Speaker 2: tend to reach out because when the tide goes out,

1029
00:59:21,880 --> 00:59:24,560
Speaker 2: that's when people realize, hey, I'm not so thrilled with

1030
00:59:24,640 --> 00:59:28,280
Speaker 2: my particular person, my guy or girl. I'm ready to

1031
00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:32,280
Speaker 2: make a change. So suddenly things get busier. What do

1032
00:59:32,320 --> 00:59:35,800
Speaker 2: you see money in motion during corrections or during the bull.

1033
00:59:36,160 --> 00:59:39,440
Speaker 1: I think the work that financial advisors do during corrections,

1034
00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:43,360
Speaker 1: focusing people on their goals versus short term performance, helping

1035
00:59:43,440 --> 00:59:47,000
Speaker 1: them understand how common or uncommon drawdowns are like this,

1036
00:59:47,120 --> 00:59:51,800
Speaker 1: and what typically happens or could happen after just aligning

1037
00:59:52,360 --> 00:59:56,280
Speaker 1: the portfolio and the performance with what the client's expecting

1038
00:59:56,280 --> 00:59:59,920
Speaker 1: of it. The work that you all do in dislocations

1039
01:00:00,120 --> 01:00:04,320
Speaker 1: in a tough environments pays dividends for years after right,

1040
01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:09,200
Speaker 1: and so like at Oryan, in any environment like that,

1041
01:00:09,280 --> 01:00:12,120
Speaker 1: we are going to be investing in communications and support

1042
01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:15,560
Speaker 1: and insights on our client's behalf, so they have those

1043
01:00:15,560 --> 01:00:18,200
Speaker 1: conversations and they can benefit. As you say, the tide

1044
01:00:18,200 --> 01:00:19,120
Speaker 1: goes out, right.

1045
01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:23,280
Speaker 2: We say internally during dro down's corrections and crashes are

1046
01:00:23,320 --> 01:00:27,040
Speaker 2: when advisors earn their keep greed, right, that's for sure,

1047
01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:29,400
Speaker 2: all right? So I only have you for a couple

1048
01:00:29,520 --> 01:00:33,080
Speaker 2: more minutes. Let's jump to our speed round, our favorite

1049
01:00:33,080 --> 01:00:36,720
Speaker 2: five questions we ask all of our guests, starting with

1050
01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:40,640
Speaker 2: what's been keeping you entertain these days? What are you streaming, watching,

1051
01:00:40,800 --> 01:00:44,800
Speaker 2: listening to? Tell us? What's keeping you amused?

1052
01:00:45,120 --> 01:00:49,920
Speaker 1: So I love podcasts and I love random podcasts. So

1053
01:00:49,960 --> 01:00:53,480
Speaker 1: I listen to Broken Record, It's all about music. I

1054
01:00:53,520 --> 01:00:59,040
Speaker 1: listen to Revisionist History with Malcolm Gladwell. I listen to History.

1055
01:00:59,560 --> 01:01:02,840
Speaker 1: I love bag Man Rachel Maddow I thought so interesting

1056
01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:03,520
Speaker 1: to listen.

1057
01:01:03,360 --> 01:01:05,600
Speaker 2: To my wife's reading her most recent book.

1058
01:01:06,080 --> 01:01:06,800
Speaker 1: Is she enjoying it?

1059
01:01:07,080 --> 01:01:09,640
Speaker 2: She's loving it, she says. It's a little it's like

1060
01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:11,840
Speaker 2: you have to read it, put it down for a

1061
01:01:11,960 --> 01:01:13,760
Speaker 2: day or so, and then pick up the next show.

1062
01:01:13,920 --> 01:01:18,320
Speaker 2: It's dense. Yes, And we'll talk about books in a minute. Okay,

1063
01:01:18,360 --> 01:01:21,520
Speaker 2: if you like broken records, I have two things to recommend.

1064
01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:24,960
Speaker 2: One is polyphonic. I don't know if you've ever seen that.

1065
01:01:25,040 --> 01:01:30,160
Speaker 2: It's a YouTube podcast, if that's the right word. And

1066
01:01:30,200 --> 01:01:34,800
Speaker 2: the other one is you can't unhear this. Okay, you

1067
01:01:34,840 --> 01:01:41,120
Speaker 2: cannot hear this is also YouTube. They go into a

1068
01:01:41,200 --> 01:01:46,200
Speaker 2: depth of recording of Beatles albums and songs, and it's

1069
01:01:46,360 --> 01:01:51,720
Speaker 2: just the oddest, strangest little things about a change in

1070
01:01:51,800 --> 01:01:55,720
Speaker 2: tempo halfway through the song, or someone cursing in the

1071
01:01:55,720 --> 01:01:58,280
Speaker 2: background that slipped through and was broke gust on radio

1072
01:01:58,600 --> 01:02:04,040
Speaker 2: and nobody knew about it on Just like the funniest, oddest,

1073
01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:08,680
Speaker 2: quirkiest little things, but really significant elements in a song

1074
01:02:08,760 --> 01:02:11,600
Speaker 2: that you just don't notice because it's all part of

1075
01:02:11,640 --> 01:02:14,200
Speaker 2: the music, and once you hear it, it's sort of

1076
01:02:14,320 --> 01:02:16,840
Speaker 2: you can't unhear it. It's really interesting.

1077
01:02:17,120 --> 01:02:18,880
Speaker 1: I love that. I'm actually gonna look at that on

1078
01:02:18,920 --> 01:02:21,080
Speaker 1: my way home. I spend a lot of time on planes.

1079
01:02:20,720 --> 01:02:24,000
Speaker 2: And podcasts are great for that. Let's talk about your

1080
01:02:24,040 --> 01:02:27,840
Speaker 2: mentors who helped shape your career so well.

1081
01:02:27,880 --> 01:02:31,800
Speaker 1: Charles Goldman, who's the current executive chairman and my predecessor

1082
01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:34,680
Speaker 1: CEO at ACIM Mark absolutely has been a mentor for

1083
01:02:34,720 --> 01:02:37,480
Speaker 1: me since I started working with him at Asset Mark.

1084
01:02:37,560 --> 01:02:40,400
Speaker 1: I mean started working with him at Schwab before I

1085
01:02:40,480 --> 01:02:44,280
Speaker 1: joined him at Asset Mark. Debbie mcguinney, who's the former

1086
01:02:44,840 --> 01:02:48,800
Speaker 1: president of Schwab Institutional, she was an incredible mentor to

1087
01:02:48,800 --> 01:02:50,720
Speaker 1: me at a really important part of my career. Gave

1088
01:02:50,720 --> 01:02:54,919
Speaker 1: me some great advice about leadership and changing the way

1089
01:02:54,920 --> 01:02:58,080
Speaker 1: you think as you get more senior in an organization.

1090
01:02:58,760 --> 01:02:59,960
Speaker 1: Those are probably the biggest two.

1091
01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:02,520
Speaker 2: Let's talk about books. What are you reading now? What

1092
01:03:02,600 --> 01:03:03,720
Speaker 2: are some of your favorites?

1093
01:03:04,200 --> 01:03:08,600
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I love history, so anything. Doris Kern's

1094
01:03:08,640 --> 01:03:13,880
Speaker 1: good one. Absolutely love Team of Rivals was fantastic. I

1095
01:03:14,600 --> 01:03:19,120
Speaker 1: love financial services history, so smartest men in the room.

1096
01:03:19,440 --> 01:03:22,720
Speaker 1: I love all the history about Enron and the financial crisis.

1097
01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:25,400
Speaker 1: Devil take the hindmost which is all about the history

1098
01:03:25,400 --> 01:03:30,560
Speaker 1: of speculation and the resulting consequences of speculation. Those are

1099
01:03:30,560 --> 01:03:31,600
Speaker 1: all great books.

1100
01:03:31,720 --> 01:03:34,479
Speaker 2: Along those same lines. Did you ever read When Genius Fail?

1101
01:03:34,680 --> 01:03:36,400
Speaker 1: Yes, so loved it.

1102
01:03:36,320 --> 01:03:39,600
Speaker 2: Right, so amazing about long term capital management. Yeah, the

1103
01:03:41,000 --> 01:03:46,320
Speaker 2: smartest guys in the room, that's Bethany Frankel, amazing, right,

1104
01:03:46,640 --> 01:03:49,200
Speaker 2: Like it's amazing what they got away with and for

1105
01:03:49,240 --> 01:03:52,040
Speaker 2: so long. Yes, just steamrolling everybody.

1106
01:03:52,160 --> 01:03:55,560
Speaker 1: It's so true. And you know the consequences of that.

1107
01:03:56,760 --> 01:03:58,880
Speaker 1: A firm that had over one hundred years of history

1108
01:03:58,880 --> 01:04:01,480
Speaker 1: just disappeared. And so I just think we all should

1109
01:04:01,520 --> 01:04:03,160
Speaker 1: be students of the industry that we're in.

1110
01:04:03,760 --> 01:04:06,760
Speaker 2: Just to say the very least. Yeah, our final two questions,

1111
01:04:07,240 --> 01:04:09,560
Speaker 2: what sort of advice would you give a recent college

1112
01:04:09,600 --> 01:04:15,600
Speaker 2: grad interested in a career in either financial technology or investing.

1113
01:04:15,800 --> 01:04:18,520
Speaker 1: To go for it. It's a fantastic industry to be

1114
01:04:18,560 --> 01:04:22,480
Speaker 1: part of. Lots of creativity, lots of growth, lots of innovation,

1115
01:04:23,120 --> 01:04:26,480
Speaker 1: incredible amount of opportunity. You know, don't be overwhelmed by

1116
01:04:26,280 --> 01:04:30,200
Speaker 1: the vocabulary or the math or things that frighten people

1117
01:04:30,240 --> 01:04:32,960
Speaker 1: away from the industry. You'll have a great career.

1118
01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:35,800
Speaker 2: You know. I meant to ask you the left brain

1119
01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:41,600
Speaker 2: right brain question, what's more important creativity or the technical skills?

1120
01:04:41,600 --> 01:04:43,720
Speaker 2: I might as well throw that out to you here.

1121
01:04:43,880 --> 01:04:47,959
Speaker 1: Yeah, so myself, personally, I tend to lean more left

1122
01:04:47,960 --> 01:04:55,120
Speaker 1: brain with the analytical, methodical, numbers focused approach. But I

1123
01:04:55,200 --> 01:04:57,600
Speaker 1: don't believe you can be successful if you lean one

1124
01:04:57,640 --> 01:05:00,760
Speaker 1: way or the other. When you're doing something that's truly

1125
01:05:00,920 --> 01:05:04,520
Speaker 1: first time ever or new, you want to delight your

1126
01:05:04,560 --> 01:05:07,120
Speaker 1: clients in an unexpected way, you have to be creative,

1127
01:05:07,680 --> 01:05:11,360
Speaker 1: and so I try to exercise both muscles. When we

1128
01:05:11,360 --> 01:05:14,320
Speaker 1: were building mobile trading, the creativity right side of the

1129
01:05:14,320 --> 01:05:17,280
Speaker 1: brain needed to take over. When you're building a service model,

1130
01:05:17,440 --> 01:05:19,520
Speaker 1: the creativity, I think right side of the brain needs

1131
01:05:19,560 --> 01:05:22,680
Speaker 1: to take over. When you're building a new asset management vehicle,

1132
01:05:22,880 --> 01:05:24,680
Speaker 1: or a new set of investments tools, or a new

1133
01:05:24,680 --> 01:05:27,040
Speaker 1: business line, you better be analytical.

1134
01:05:27,840 --> 01:05:30,760
Speaker 2: Really interesting. Our final question, what do you know about

1135
01:05:30,760 --> 01:05:33,640
Speaker 2: the world of finance and investing today? You wish you

1136
01:05:33,680 --> 01:05:35,840
Speaker 2: knew thirty or so years ago when you were first

1137
01:05:35,880 --> 01:05:36,560
Speaker 2: starting out.

1138
01:05:36,760 --> 01:05:39,400
Speaker 1: I wish I knew how fun it was. Really, I

1139
01:05:39,480 --> 01:05:41,960
Speaker 1: really do, and by fun, I just mean you are

1140
01:05:42,040 --> 01:05:45,680
Speaker 1: making a huge impact on people's dreams and goals and lives.

1141
01:05:46,680 --> 01:05:49,680
Speaker 1: You know, if you're working with institutions, the investors in

1142
01:05:49,680 --> 01:05:54,840
Speaker 1: those institutions are teachers and firemen through their pension plans

1143
01:05:54,840 --> 01:05:58,919
Speaker 1: and their retirement plans. And when you build something that's

1144
01:05:58,960 --> 01:06:01,560
Speaker 1: new and creative, seeing the impact it has on lives

1145
01:06:01,680 --> 01:06:05,280
Speaker 1: is just incredibly fun and interesting. So I wish, I

1146
01:06:05,320 --> 01:06:07,280
Speaker 1: wish I would have known that I would have sought

1147
01:06:07,320 --> 01:06:09,480
Speaker 1: the industry out versus randomly finding it.

1148
01:06:09,600 --> 01:06:11,400
Speaker 2: I don't know if I've ever heard that answer before,

1149
01:06:11,440 --> 01:06:13,920
Speaker 2: that that's a great answer. Well, well, thank you Natalie

1150
01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:16,960
Speaker 2: for being so generous with your time. We have been

1151
01:06:17,040 --> 01:06:20,640
Speaker 2: speaking with Natalie Wolfson, CEO of Orion. They have over

1152
01:06:20,720 --> 01:06:25,520
Speaker 2: four point three trillion dollars in advisor assets on their platform.

1153
01:06:25,920 --> 01:06:28,840
Speaker 2: If you enjoy this conversation, well, be sure and check

1154
01:06:28,840 --> 01:06:32,360
Speaker 2: out the five hundred previous discussions we've held over the

1155
01:06:32,400 --> 01:06:36,720
Speaker 2: past ten years. You can find those at iTunes, Spotify, YouTube,

1156
01:06:36,960 --> 01:06:40,440
Speaker 2: wherever you find your favorite podcasts, And be sure and

1157
01:06:40,520 --> 01:06:44,880
Speaker 2: check out my newest podcast, at the Money, Conversations with

1158
01:06:45,000 --> 01:06:49,440
Speaker 2: experts about your money, earning it, spending it, and most importantly,

1159
01:06:49,920 --> 01:06:52,640
Speaker 2: investing it. You can find that in the Masters and

1160
01:06:52,680 --> 01:06:56,680
Speaker 2: Business feed or wherever you find your favorite podcasts. I

1161
01:06:56,680 --> 01:06:58,479
Speaker 2: would be remiss if I did not thank the crack

1162
01:06:58,520 --> 01:07:02,080
Speaker 2: team that helps us put these conversastions together each week.

1163
01:07:02,520 --> 01:07:06,000
Speaker 2: John Wasserman is my audio engineer at Tika. Valbrun is

1164
01:07:06,000 --> 01:07:10,480
Speaker 2: my project manager. Sean Russo is my head of research.

1165
01:07:11,120 --> 01:07:15,200
Speaker 2: Anna Luke is my producer. I'm very results you've been

1166
01:07:15,240 --> 01:07:21,640
Speaker 2: listening to Master's Business on Bloomberg Radio