1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,120 Speaker 1: Welcome to Worst Year Ever, a production of I Heart 2 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:20,640 Speaker 1: Radio Everything. So don't don't all right, we'll just started, 3 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:29,720 Speaker 1: I guess yeah, have we started at the same time. 4 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we did it. Welcome We're here now, Okay, Hello, 5 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:41,839 Speaker 1: it's magic. It's magic how that happens. One minute we 6 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 1: aren't here and then the next minute we are seamlessly 7 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:52,600 Speaker 1: professionally all Hi guys, Welcome back to the Worst Year Ever. 8 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 1: I had to think about it for a second. I 9 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 1: was like, yeah, I heard that. Still is um no 10 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 1: fun puns you include or adjust on the fly. Here, 11 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:14,760 Speaker 1: I'm Katie Soul. Uh. It's Cody Johnston Johnston and today 12 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 1: you introduce yourself. Okay, I'm I'm eve At Injured. Nice 13 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 1: to be here with y'all again. We're happy to have 14 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 1: you back. Uh. Robert is not here with us this week. Um, 15 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 1: and I get to make all the jokes about him now. Yeah, 16 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:35,200 Speaker 1: And so we Sophie frantically reached out to eve uh 17 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 1: and they agreed to join us, which we were thrilled about. Well, 18 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:42,840 Speaker 1: it wasn't exactly, I just it wasn't frantic, calmly and responsibly, 19 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:46,480 Speaker 1: calmly and delightedly because it took him. She was like, 20 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 1: how about Eve, And we were like, yeah, absolutely, Well, 21 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 1: Eve wrote this article for Bustle. Is that correct? Is 22 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 1: that the publication pronounced boost? Yeah? Oh, thank you so much, 23 00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:00,160 Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Katie. UM and I really thought 24 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:02,800 Speaker 1: it was something that needed to be talked about even more. 25 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 1: It was such a beautifully written article that is so 26 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 1: poignant to the Times right now, and I loved it 27 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 1: and I'm so glad that Eve has given us their 28 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:17,840 Speaker 1: time to talk so much. The fact that people are 29 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:23,519 Speaker 1: resonating with it is really depressing. Um, but really it's 30 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 1: really nice. Um. Yeah, the response has been really cool 31 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:32,240 Speaker 1: to see. It's it's yeah, it's absolutely something that we 32 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 1: all resonate with right now. And I think the way 33 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 1: you put it so eloquently, I mean in the in 34 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 1: the piece, you can talk about the piece, but it 35 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 1: basically it is something that relating these experiences in these 36 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:53,239 Speaker 1: symptoms of burnout to your own experience with CPTSD and 37 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:57,920 Speaker 1: seeing those parallels and maybe reframing how we think about 38 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 1: what it means to be burnt out out. Um and 39 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 1: more people are are realizing it as they are experiencing 40 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:08,079 Speaker 1: these symptoms that maybe it's not just burnout. Maybe we are. 41 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:12,919 Speaker 1: Maybe we are experiencing the thing that we all collectively 42 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 1: warned about, which was a severe trauma for the past 43 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 1: few years. You know. Well, the way I kind of 44 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 1: went into it, and I've been I worked on this 45 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 1: piece since August last year, so months and months, and 46 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 1: I had to cut so much out of it, and 47 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 1: there were so many valuable moments that made it in 48 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: and others that didn't. And I just I probably could 49 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 1: have written like ten words on it easy. Um. But 50 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 1: I kind of went into it being like, my theory 51 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 1: is that burnout doesn't exist. It's just complex PTSD for 52 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 1: that now because capitalism is eating the rich alife too. 53 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 1: Now we're talking about it, giving it, we're giving it 54 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 1: the like you know, a fancy name burnout and um, 55 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 1: and this is on a new phenomenon and everybody's been 56 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 1: experiencing this for forever if you're not privileged and that 57 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: white and um, so I, you know, kind of with 58 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 1: that theory, decided to go see if I was confined anything. 59 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 1: And oh boy, everybody was too excited to talk to me, yea, 60 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:22,719 Speaker 1: which is really upsetting. Yeah, for sure. Um, do you 61 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:26,159 Speaker 1: want to give a brief summary of the article for 62 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 1: our listeners and everyone should go read this article. It's phenomenal. Pause, 63 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 1: go read and come back. Don't do that then yeah. Yeah, 64 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:38,839 Speaker 1: So basically, UM, in the article, I kind of cover 65 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:46,279 Speaker 1: complex PTSD UM as a phenomenon and comparing it to burnout. 66 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:52,119 Speaker 1: So going and asking these people who are pretty open 67 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 1: about their experiences of burnout, especially most of them are 68 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:59,279 Speaker 1: women of color, talking about, um, you know, what it 69 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 1: means to be really successful person in their field and 70 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 1: also experienced burnout and how they define it and what 71 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 1: you know they would like to see happen and change, 72 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 1: and then kind of comparing that to my own experience 73 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 1: of complex PTSD and like watching the symptoms like dovetail 74 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 1: and UM. And then I took this to um some 75 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:31,480 Speaker 1: researchers when he's a former family doctor who now specializes 76 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:36,920 Speaker 1: in preventing physician burnout and helping hospital administrators like revamp 77 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:39,360 Speaker 1: their systems to do that, and you know, kind of 78 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 1: asked him like what's your take and he was like yes, 79 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 1: finally UM. And then UM, this wonderful gentleman named Thanos 80 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 1: Um who's a yeah, the great, great name. He's a 81 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:58,800 Speaker 1: researcher in Scotland. Um. You know, he helped develop the 82 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:04,039 Speaker 1: Definite Definition of complex PTSD for um, the you know, 83 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 1: equivalent of the d s M five that everybody except 84 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:11,480 Speaker 1: for the US uses. Uh So, quait real quick, just 85 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:17,160 Speaker 1: define what d s M guide is for people five? Sorry? Um, yeah, 86 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 1: d s M is the diagnostic manual and I I'm 87 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:27,360 Speaker 1: blinking on the exact acronym, but it's a diagnostic manual 88 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:32,040 Speaker 1: that you is used to diagnose mental health issues. So 89 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 1: complex PTSD is not in it. Yeah, but there's a 90 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 1: lot of things that aren't in it that should be 91 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 1: in it. There's a lot of things that are in 92 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 1: it that shouldn't be in it. There's a lot of 93 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:46,599 Speaker 1: things that are mislabeled, and so it's only as good 94 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:48,280 Speaker 1: as like what you want to use it for. And 95 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 1: it's basically it's basically a way of justifying treatment to 96 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:57,720 Speaker 1: insurance companies. It's allowed to crap. But when when he 97 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:00,479 Speaker 1: when I emailed him about it, he was like, oh 98 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 1: my god, we've been talking about this. Um, I'd love 99 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:04,240 Speaker 1: to talk to you. And I was like, oh no, 100 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 1: here we go again. So yeah, it seems like one 101 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 1: of the interesting things is like burnout is not a 102 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 1: medical condition. Burnout is a phenomenon that shows up that 103 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 1: can have medical side effects, but it's not recognized as 104 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 1: a medical diagnosable condition. So then what the funk is? 105 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 1: It was really what I was starting to figure out. Yeah, 106 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 1: And I mean it does resonate with everybody right now. 107 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 1: I just want to circle back to like this point. 108 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 1: Right now, everybody's feeling this, uh in different degrees or 109 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 1: has been over the past couple of years, and even 110 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 1: before that, uh, during this past administration and the world 111 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 1: getting worse and climate change, and it's not gonna It's 112 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 1: not going to go away, is I guess? My point? Um? 113 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 1: And and and it is very a point, very well 114 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 1: taken that you make in the piece about how it 115 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 1: is about the rich, white, primarily like people of the 116 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:15,440 Speaker 1: world waking up to the reality that the vast majority 117 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 1: of people have been experiencing and the level of anxiety 118 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 1: and what that actually physically does to your body, you know. 119 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 1: So he was talking about this earlier, just there's an 120 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 1: element of it that's not even something you can control. 121 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 1: It's a physical response. Well, and there's this also this 122 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:34,560 Speaker 1: thing that's happening, and I wasn't really able to include 123 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 1: this in the piece, but it was in the back 124 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 1: of my mind. It's like, we don't have a way 125 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:42,880 Speaker 1: to turn off work in a way that past generations have. 126 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 1: So the wealthy have always been a leisure class. And 127 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 1: now the wealthy are proving that they can work harder 128 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 1: than anyone else because they have access to things and 129 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 1: they you know, they can have someone on call, and 130 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:00,120 Speaker 1: they can have the private jet and they so they 131 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 1: can be anywhere whenever they want to be. So they're 132 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 1: just like, it's not a leisure class anymore. And suddenly 133 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 1: they're experiencing that same kind of like loss of margin, 134 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 1: loss of space to rest and play as everybody else's. 135 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:20,680 Speaker 1: And it's not threatening their you know, actual existence in 136 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 1: the ways that it is everybody else, but um, they're 137 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 1: experiencing some consequences, and so now we're talking about burnout. 138 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 1: Yeah right. They like push, like hustle culture and like 139 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:33,720 Speaker 1: the grind for so long and then they adopted themselves 140 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 1: and they're like, oh wait, this is actually kind of 141 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:38,840 Speaker 1: terrible lean in, but oh, maybe we should leave our 142 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:43,720 Speaker 1: phones outside of our bedroom at night. Yeah, no TVs 143 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 1: in the space where you sleep. Mm hmmm. For those 144 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:51,080 Speaker 1: people that can afford a place with more than one bedroom. 145 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:54,440 Speaker 1: I was going to ask Sophie, what what about the 146 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:56,800 Speaker 1: piece resonated so much because you were very excited to 147 00:09:56,800 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 1: talk about it. Yeah, I mean, I think that you know, 148 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:03,959 Speaker 1: your connection to the economic system and and how Bernard 149 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:06,959 Speaker 1: is a form of oppression was very uh, something that 150 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 1: stuck out to me. I think that, you know, the 151 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:13,840 Speaker 1: conversation around complex PTSD is not a conversation that happens 152 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:20,200 Speaker 1: very often. UM, I have PTSD, and complex PTSD has 153 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:23,199 Speaker 1: never been brought up to me in a professional setting 154 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:25,320 Speaker 1: and has been brought up to me by you know, 155 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:28,959 Speaker 1: a loved one being like, hey, I don't, I don't, 156 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:30,960 Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe this is what that is. And 157 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 1: I'm like, what are you talking about? And so, I 158 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 1: what do you mean. I'm I've just worked too much, 159 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 1: I'm just tired. I'm just over. You know, there's a war, 160 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 1: the planets on fire, you know, things like that, and yeah, 161 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:48,000 Speaker 1: So I think those two things really stuck out to me. 162 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:52,679 Speaker 1: And you know, knowing that you wrote it meant like 163 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:56,480 Speaker 1: got of course got my attention because you're so brilliant 164 00:10:56,679 --> 00:10:59,440 Speaker 1: and the way you wrote this article. I really loved it, 165 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:03,680 Speaker 1: even than really loved it. I'm glad that complex PTSD 166 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 1: is getting some intention it should understood. Yeah, and and 167 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 1: for me that stood out. I uh, I had not 168 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 1: considered it before. PTSD has seemed like as much as 169 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 1: I talk about it and and talk about awaren as 170 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:22,679 Speaker 1: we all do, I think an awareness of it when 171 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:26,720 Speaker 1: people say that they're they're struggling with it and um, 172 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 1: but it hasn't seemed like something that I could be 173 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:35,560 Speaker 1: experiencing personally and experienced trauma. No, I'm fine, and and 174 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 1: I have realized that I've had it. But prior to this, 175 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:41,959 Speaker 1: to this article, um, and at least in certain arenas 176 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:44,720 Speaker 1: of my life, but I had this really did um 177 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 1: make me stop and see like, oh, oh, I see 178 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 1: how this is manifesting in different areas and other and 179 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 1: other ways that this is also a trauma response. And 180 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:59,839 Speaker 1: for me personally, at least in my past, when I 181 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 1: name something, that's the first step towards having relief. Almost. Um. 182 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 1: So if I'm able to pinpoint what this, this physical 183 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 1: sensation that I'm experiencing is bigger than me. There's a 184 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:15,440 Speaker 1: piece in that, and so it's vitally important. I think 185 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:20,720 Speaker 1: that people are are educated have the tools to to 186 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:24,040 Speaker 1: understand what's happening in our bodies because most people don't 187 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:26,440 Speaker 1: know most of us do not have access to our 188 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:30,720 Speaker 1: emotional life and can articulate what we're experiencing. Sorry, go ahead, no, 189 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 1: I was just gonna say, this brings me back to 190 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 1: the d s M, because like what we have is 191 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 1: like you know, diagnoses, a lot of people treat it 192 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:43,599 Speaker 1: as a like a like characteristic like I have it 193 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 1: in eyebrows like that. I also have PTSD. I will 194 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 1: always have both like that kind of level of like 195 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:56,720 Speaker 1: fixedness to your your persona and who you are. And um, 196 00:12:56,800 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 1: it's the like a diagnosis of mtal health issues just 197 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 1: a description of a cluster of symptoms like it's a 198 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 1: it's a it's a like a description of a manifestation 199 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:14,440 Speaker 1: of something in your body. Um, and it doesn't describe you. 200 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:16,960 Speaker 1: And so I think that's one of the reasons that 201 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:19,760 Speaker 1: there's so much I don't know if you saw the 202 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:22,640 Speaker 1: like piece about like trauma plot that was going around 203 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 1: lit Twitter a couple of weeks back. I didn't, but 204 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 1: like there's this like ongoing fight about like at least 205 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 1: everything Channa now um, And I'm like, yeah, Actually I 206 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:42,080 Speaker 1: was going, that's not interesting. Like it's both like I'm sorry, 207 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 1: a rape is not an origin story for like an 208 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 1: interesting character. Try harder, and also like, yeah, everything is 209 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:50,800 Speaker 1: probably trauma in ways that you didn't expect, Like your 210 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 1: body is going to like react to things and you're 211 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:56,280 Speaker 1: going to carry that with you and everyone has a 212 00:13:56,320 --> 00:14:01,520 Speaker 1: different way of um my personal term for the way 213 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:05,560 Speaker 1: I described like processing intense emotions is emotional metabolism, Like 214 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:09,679 Speaker 1: everyone's emotional metabolism has a different rate, Like you're going 215 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:12,560 Speaker 1: to carry that in your body for longer or less time, 216 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 1: depending on who you are. So sure, like something might 217 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 1: be really intense and really like you know lingering that 218 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 1: for someone else might be minuscule and not not a 219 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 1: big deal. Might just like you know, they wouldn't even 220 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 1: think about it twice. Also some of those people, oh 221 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 1: is everything about trauma? Yes, and you too, sir or 222 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:42,400 Speaker 1: madam or non binary binary person you know, like it's 223 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 1: it's we all have it, and there is a freedom 224 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 1: and acknowledging it because they're carrying that we are ashamed 225 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 1: of is rooted in trauma, Like the things that you 226 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 1: struggle with are rooted with this. These these formative experiences 227 00:14:56,840 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 1: and if you can acknowledge it, you'll feel better. The 228 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 1: people who bitch about everything being drama and using the 229 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 1: word trauma too much, I feel like the same kind 230 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 1: of people. And I'm not saying they are the same 231 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 1: kind of people, but like they feel similar to the 232 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 1: people who are like, well, I got spanked as a 233 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:20,000 Speaker 1: kid and I turned out fine. You're saying, you're saying 234 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 1: that clearly you're okay with hitting small people. Know. I 235 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 1: was gonna say, yeah, like I gotta spanking as a kid, 236 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 1: and I turned out fine. And so to my kids 237 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 1: who I spank, they're fine too, Like, okay, so you're 238 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 1: spanking your kids then, so yeah, that is that the 239 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:40,320 Speaker 1: healthiest way for you to release your anger or frustration? Right? 240 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 1: Are they really listening to you? You know? Um? Yeah? 241 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 1: Can I can I just like check on definitions here, 242 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 1: like in terms of like PTSD versus c PTSD. Please, 243 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 1: I don't know that everybody's like, you know, like we're 244 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 1: talking about not everybody's run into it. So um, I'm 245 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:01,600 Speaker 1: gonna grow strawberry and a Robert metaphor for this, Like 246 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 1: you can you can like cook meat in the ground 247 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:10,360 Speaker 1: over a million hours like he does sometimes um, real slowly, 248 00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 1: real low um, and it will taste great. And you 249 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 1: can flash cook a steak on a grill real fast 250 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 1: and it will also taste great. But you know, the 251 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 1: PTSD is the flash Ryan. Um, It's it's a you know, 252 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:29,880 Speaker 1: an isolated incident. You can point to it and say 253 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:36,560 Speaker 1: this is what happened. Um. And like when I got 254 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 1: my complex PTSD diagnosis, which like is not really a 255 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 1: thing given DSM stuff, but like is a thing. Um, 256 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 1: my therapist was like, okay, so like what's your primary trauma? 257 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 1: And I was like, my what It was like, uh no, 258 00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 1: that's not that's not that's not a question that will 259 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 1: work here. Um. And that's kind of how it is. 260 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:05,919 Speaker 1: It's like, it's this is the slow cooker experience, Like 261 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:11,199 Speaker 1: it's the act of cooking is taking so long that 262 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 1: you can't delineate it from one to the next. It 263 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 1: just like it exists to everything. Yeah, it's just it's like, yeah, 264 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:25,959 Speaker 1: it's the air you breathe. You don't even know that 265 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:30,840 Speaker 1: you're in it until you leave it. Usually. Well yeah, 266 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:37,160 Speaker 1: yeah that's really well said. Um. So if you should 267 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:38,800 Speaker 1: we take a break now, this would be a great 268 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:41,520 Speaker 1: time to take a break. I think we're gonna take 269 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:45,240 Speaker 1: a break real quick. Perhaps perhaps would now be a 270 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:48,640 Speaker 1: good time to take a break. I'm just wondering. Probably, 271 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:52,200 Speaker 1: probably do we want a break, Katie? Break? I think, yeah, 272 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 1: I think maybe we can do this for another minute 273 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 1: and then we take a break. Just go ahead and 274 00:17:57,560 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 1: then but we but with spend a minute of asking 275 00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:02,359 Speaker 1: if we think that we should probably talk about it first? 276 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 1: How do we feel about taking a break? I don't 277 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:11,640 Speaker 1: know anymore. I'm dead, feel like a little two burnt out. 278 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:14,159 Speaker 1: You know, I'm just gonna call it. We're gonna take 279 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:23,440 Speaker 1: a quick break, and then we're gonna be back everything. 280 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 1: So don't don't, don't. And we're back from that break, right. 281 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:30,840 Speaker 1: It was good. We feel good to be back from break. 282 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 1: Did we talk about this yet? Were I just barked 283 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:38,800 Speaker 1: right ahead? I'm so sorry. I did it again. I 284 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:42,960 Speaker 1: did it again, just so we're all good. We're all good, 285 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 1: you say, okay, well, thanks for checking in. We turned 286 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:54,680 Speaker 1: out fine. Yeah, Sophie, why don't you you had something 287 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 1: interesting you wanted to just start us off with. We 288 00:18:57,680 --> 00:18:59,679 Speaker 1: talked a little bit bit about the first thing that 289 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:02,159 Speaker 1: stuck with me from the article, which was you know, 290 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:05,119 Speaker 1: the complex PTSD aspect of it, but I wanted to 291 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 1: get into a little bit of you know, how the 292 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:14,000 Speaker 1: economic system influences this and how uh it can lead 293 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:19,680 Speaker 1: to oppression and different different, different things like that, and um, yeah, 294 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:22,720 Speaker 1: so you know, easy topics like that, Yeah, really really 295 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 1: easy topics like that. M yeah yeah, Well, I mean 296 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:35,399 Speaker 1: capitalism is designed to like keep you busy, and capitalism 297 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:39,480 Speaker 1: is designed to constantly be taking from someone, and um, 298 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:42,199 Speaker 1: you have to like eat your feelings about that in 299 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:48,680 Speaker 1: order to like keep going. Um. And you know, it's 300 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 1: that classic MLM. Capitalism is an m L and that's 301 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:54,720 Speaker 1: how like we got MLMs. I don't know, um, but 302 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:58,920 Speaker 1: the thing is, like, yeah, the way I think about it, 303 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:02,440 Speaker 1: in the way I was recognizing these things as people 304 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:05,919 Speaker 1: were talking about them is I grew up in a 305 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:09,440 Speaker 1: fundamentalist group and I considered a cult. And like one 306 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:12,719 Speaker 1: of the things that was really useful to keep people 307 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:17,879 Speaker 1: from questioning the leadership is to have everyone be constantly 308 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 1: on edge about like how good they were and like 309 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:23,199 Speaker 1: whether or not God love them, and like how they 310 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:26,720 Speaker 1: were measuring up. And so this constantly anxiety, this like 311 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:32,280 Speaker 1: ambient anxiety about like your performance and your worthiness like 312 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 1: kept you, you know, distracted, so that you didn't have 313 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:39,919 Speaker 1: any energy to think about like huh now how did 314 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:43,400 Speaker 1: I end up here? Like you and urge, Um, why 315 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 1: is this a good idea? Uh? And I think that 316 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:51,159 Speaker 1: like having so little margin on life, you know I 317 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 1: talked about like room to play and rest, Like we 318 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:57,480 Speaker 1: don't have that in most of our our day to 319 00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:00,919 Speaker 1: day lives, and so we don't have time. Aim, you 320 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:05,959 Speaker 1: cannot be creative unless you're bored a little bit, So 321 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:10,359 Speaker 1: you cannot be You cannot be able to like really 322 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 1: analyze you know, why am I hearing? Do I like this? 323 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 1: Unless you have that space and so like getting to 324 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:23,119 Speaker 1: burnout point, having that crisis, like that point of collapse, 325 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:26,560 Speaker 1: like that's where you finally get time, and that's when 326 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 1: you finally realize, like what the fund have I been doing? 327 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:33,600 Speaker 1: Because capitalism is designed to keep us like ambiently anxious 328 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 1: and caring you also everybody else and like not questioning anything. Yeah, 329 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:47,280 Speaker 1: you can't recover from that kind of deep fatigue with 330 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:50,679 Speaker 1: a long weekend where you're also trying to do your 331 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:55,720 Speaker 1: laundry and like, um, organized the drawers that you've been 332 00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:57,679 Speaker 1: putting you know whatever, it is like you get the 333 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:00,719 Speaker 1: you get to the weekend, and it's not the same thing. 334 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:07,240 Speaker 1: This is we're talking about starvation, Like your body needs 335 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:11,359 Speaker 1: to heal deeply and we don't have time. I recently 336 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 1: went through a huge breakup and it's dramatic loss of 337 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 1: a family member all at the same time, and it 338 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 1: was just ugly. But work was ramping up and for 339 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:28,439 Speaker 1: the right I felt so grateful for all of the 340 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 1: good opportunities and that I needed to show up for 341 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:34,080 Speaker 1: all of them. But I needed to heal too, and 342 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:37,920 Speaker 1: there wasn't time for both of that, and it made 343 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 1: my work suffer for a while, you know, and I 344 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:42,399 Speaker 1: but I at a certain point I recognized what was 345 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:45,720 Speaker 1: happening and just gave myself permission to cut as many 346 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:48,560 Speaker 1: corners as I needed for the remainder of the year 347 00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:51,720 Speaker 1: at least. And like a hallmark of trauma, it's like 348 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:56,439 Speaker 1: you had like that intense mormonal response to get you 349 00:22:56,480 --> 00:23:01,880 Speaker 1: through the bush, and you can't sustain that love yeah operating, 350 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 1: and so you crash afterward. And so like I'm really 351 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:10,200 Speaker 1: good en a crisis and then like and then yeah, 352 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 1: like two weeks later, I'll be like, um, and you 353 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:19,880 Speaker 1: know that delayed reaction is you know, just a part 354 00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:23,280 Speaker 1: of like who I am because of complex PTSD, and 355 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:25,960 Speaker 1: I think that like we see this all over the 356 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 1: place here with like you know, people will go through 357 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:30,959 Speaker 1: stuff and they'll be like why am I acting like 358 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:32,840 Speaker 1: this like a month later or a week later, and 359 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:35,280 Speaker 1: I'm just like, yeah, you just went through this, this, this, 360 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:38,479 Speaker 1: and this, and they're like uh, And I'm like, you 361 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:41,200 Speaker 1: haven't rested, you haven't like recovered, you haven't actually processed 362 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 1: any of that. You culture doesn't. We don't talk about it, 363 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 1: so we don't make space for it, you know, in 364 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:53,280 Speaker 1: the same way, and people have that internalized capitalism, that 365 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:59,200 Speaker 1: idea of identities connected with our productivity, and so they don't. 366 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 1: We all don't feel like we can take that time 367 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 1: in space to endure it and continue. Yeah. Yeah, So 368 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 1: one of the other things in this article that you 369 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:13,760 Speaker 1: wrote that they discusses, you know, you can wake up, 370 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 1: you can do your normal routine, but you're still like 371 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 1: in this trauma response and doing your normal routine can 372 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,440 Speaker 1: be like part of that. At least my and my experience. 373 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 1: It's like Okay, it's the way like it keeps you 374 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:29,119 Speaker 1: going as a momentum. Yeah, I can get up, I 375 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,280 Speaker 1: can do X, Y and Z, I can do my job, 376 00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:35,560 Speaker 1: I can call my friends. But like you're you're not 377 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:38,640 Speaker 1: you're not you're you're not your best self in any way, 378 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:41,840 Speaker 1: shape or form, but you're able to go through the motions. 379 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:46,760 Speaker 1: If that makes sense. Um, Yeah, that that was the 380 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 1: other thing. I was like there, Yeah, I'm the I'm 381 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,160 Speaker 1: the friend who's like, so have you eaten today? Did 382 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:58,240 Speaker 1: you not get? Like I'm as a professor, I try 383 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 1: to emulate this with like how I interact and set 384 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:05,159 Speaker 1: boundaries with my students. I'm like, you know, I'm not 385 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:10,160 Speaker 1: going to respond to things during these hours, Like you will. 386 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:13,040 Speaker 1: You you can figure it out, Like if it's a crisis, 387 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:15,159 Speaker 1: you will. You will find a way to get in 388 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,360 Speaker 1: touch with me. But like, I'm not going to respond 389 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,840 Speaker 1: to you right away because like we have boundaries here. 390 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:24,640 Speaker 1: This is not urgent, Like this is not like for death. 391 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:26,800 Speaker 1: This is a fucking college class. This is one oh 392 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:30,120 Speaker 1: one level. Like let's be realistic and then like I'm 393 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:32,359 Speaker 1: gonna have you have a big deadline before break so 394 00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:35,720 Speaker 1: that you actually have a break, Like yeah, because I 395 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:38,520 Speaker 1: want to create as much space as possible, and so 396 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:40,359 Speaker 1: I try to lead with that by like I have 397 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:44,440 Speaker 1: to set my own boundaries for myself so that they 398 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:49,320 Speaker 1: know how to like interact with that. It's really hard that, like, 399 00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:52,280 Speaker 1: you know, I it's easier to just kind of be 400 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 1: on all the time and be constantly thinking about it 401 00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 1: rather than to like delineate you know, spaces and time 402 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 1: times that belong to this and only this. Yeah, you 403 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:05,879 Speaker 1: talk a lot uh in the piece about like just 404 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:09,120 Speaker 1: the environment that you're you're in, and there's no real 405 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:14,240 Speaker 1: um like escape or from from that environment. You you know, 406 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:16,200 Speaker 1: you can't take You can take a weekend from it, 407 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 1: but then you go right back into the environment. UM. 408 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:21,399 Speaker 1: And I've I've talked about this a little bit before, 409 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,520 Speaker 1: but I'm curious about sort of your like opinion on 410 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:26,119 Speaker 1: like working from homes. I think there are a lot 411 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:30,320 Speaker 1: of benefits from it, um and sort of separating from 412 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:32,200 Speaker 1: like you, we all kind of go in the same space, 413 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:33,639 Speaker 1: and like there are reasons that they want you to 414 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:35,919 Speaker 1: come to the office that aren't like about performance or 415 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:38,520 Speaker 1: your well being or like the benefit of the company 416 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 1: or anything like that. It's just like we need you 417 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:41,760 Speaker 1: here to like watch over you there's a lot of 418 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:46,400 Speaker 1: aspects there that the end they're pushing to get back 419 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 1: to get back there. But yeah, but it's I'm I'm 420 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:54,359 Speaker 1: always thinking about, Like, yeah, but isn't it also bad 421 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:58,479 Speaker 1: to have your workspace be at your home? Like that 422 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:02,679 Speaker 1: seems like so unhealthy, but also like humans have always 423 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 1: done that, like we've like having the workspace be separate 424 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:11,480 Speaker 1: from the home is not necessarily like right historically like 425 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 1: consistent phenomenon. So like I don't know, Um, the way 426 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:19,280 Speaker 1: I do it is is I just have different spaces 427 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:21,800 Speaker 1: for different things, and that's a privilege. That's a huge, 428 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,400 Speaker 1: huge privilege of where I live, and like that I'm 429 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,160 Speaker 1: able to afford to have a couple of different rooms 430 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,359 Speaker 1: for things, So like not having my workspace in my 431 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:34,679 Speaker 1: bedroom is priority number one, Like no matter what my 432 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:38,360 Speaker 1: living situation is, I've always even in like a studio, 433 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:43,080 Speaker 1: just like not having those together so that psychically I'm 434 00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 1: not in bed thinking about work, Like it's really important 435 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,920 Speaker 1: delineation so that rest is rest and work is work. Um. 436 00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:54,119 Speaker 1: The other is just like I don't know, putting on pants, 437 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:56,240 Speaker 1: Like I don't have to hard pants, but just like 438 00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:58,879 Speaker 1: putting on pants, like you know, again having that delineation, 439 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:03,400 Speaker 1: but also getting out of the house, walking around outside, 440 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:05,639 Speaker 1: even if it's twenty minutes. Like having a dog has 441 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:09,080 Speaker 1: been great for my my brain because like she forces 442 00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:11,439 Speaker 1: me to meet people, She forces me to go outside 443 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:13,439 Speaker 1: multiple times a day. You have something that you have 444 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:17,080 Speaker 1: to care about, Yeah, right, and forces you to care 445 00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:19,520 Speaker 1: about yourself in a way I've always been good about 446 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:22,119 Speaker 1: like having something else to care about, Like I'm the 447 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:24,000 Speaker 1: oldest of nine kids, Like I helped raise a bow, 448 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:26,560 Speaker 1: Like I've always had cats, Like that's not the thing, 449 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,200 Speaker 1: but like the act of having to vid the house, 450 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:34,119 Speaker 1: that having a dog has been really revolutionary for me 451 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:38,400 Speaker 1: on that regard. I'll just throw this out there for 452 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:44,880 Speaker 1: anybody listening, um who lives in a small space or 453 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:48,000 Speaker 1: perhaps a studio environment where it's really difficult to find 454 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 1: that it's tough. But with that, there are ways that 455 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:55,240 Speaker 1: you can can make it feel separate psychically at least, 456 00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:59,240 Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, you can paint the wall, you can 457 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:01,280 Speaker 1: put a divider up, you can you can have a divider. 458 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,400 Speaker 1: You can just make sure you're never eating at your desk. Yeah, 459 00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:09,080 Speaker 1: that go a long way. But yeah, like you're saying 460 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:10,720 Speaker 1: with like you know, putting on pants, and like we 461 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:12,080 Speaker 1: all joke like, yeah, we don't have to put a 462 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 1: pants at work, but even like just putting on something, 463 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 1: it's like this is like my work. Yeah close, I'm awake. 464 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:20,280 Speaker 1: Um right, I'm awake. It's like it's like business time. 465 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:22,800 Speaker 1: Here we go. And then being able to separate that 466 00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:24,520 Speaker 1: and like you were talking about, even with just sort 467 00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:26,560 Speaker 1: of the communication aspects, I feel like a lot of people, 468 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 1: because they're working from home now, also have this pressure 469 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:33,160 Speaker 1: of like, well, therefore you're always kind of at work, 470 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:36,520 Speaker 1: therefore I can always contact you absolutely, which which is 471 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 1: not like should not be the case. But I think 472 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:43,000 Speaker 1: that there's like the part of the danger of um 473 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:45,120 Speaker 1: of this new sort of set up for a lot 474 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:47,120 Speaker 1: of people, and a lot of employers want to have 475 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:51,480 Speaker 1: that power over people's time when they absolutely shouldn't. Well, 476 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:53,959 Speaker 1: and it's a privacy violation to like one of the issues. 477 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:56,920 Speaker 1: So I was teaching at a community college and super 478 00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 1: deep Southwest Appalachia, Southwest virg and Apple Logic at the 479 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:04,040 Speaker 1: start of the pandemic, and so we went online in 480 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:09,360 Speaker 1: that community for zoom, which meant that there would be 481 00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:12,720 Speaker 1: there was like a situation not my class but a 482 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:16,719 Speaker 1: fellow teacher was teaching a class with multiple black students 483 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:18,760 Speaker 1: in it and a white student who had a Confederate 484 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:23,240 Speaker 1: flag in our bedroom, and like, is that her space? 485 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:26,680 Speaker 1: Her space has now become the classroom. What power do 486 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:29,080 Speaker 1: you have to control that space in terms of like 487 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:32,800 Speaker 1: that's the privacy, freedom of speech thing, but it's also 488 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:36,040 Speaker 1: hate speech bring brought into the classroom because the classroom 489 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 1: is now here and those delineations, like we haven't had 490 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,400 Speaker 1: to navigate this before, and so like, you know, it 491 00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:45,440 Speaker 1: just translates directly to work too, Like, um, you know, 492 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:49,160 Speaker 1: if you're a manager, learned how to use the schedule 493 00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:54,040 Speaker 1: email function and send things later, just like we send 494 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:57,040 Speaker 1: that we're thinking it, the schedule it for tomorrow, because 495 00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,240 Speaker 1: that's you know, just setting those boundaries for your off 496 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:07,200 Speaker 1: and others is really important. Uh that's a really good point. Um, 497 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:10,400 Speaker 1: the managed thing, I should look into that for because 498 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,880 Speaker 1: it's hard. It's hard. We have to respect you. Also 499 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:18,440 Speaker 1: reminded me of a Reddit thread where a worker, some 500 00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:22,120 Speaker 1: guy I'm not going to remember this, he had a 501 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:24,760 Speaker 1: life size cut out of Danny DeVito in the back 502 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:29,720 Speaker 1: of his zoom background. And when you're unfortunately the Confederate 503 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:32,080 Speaker 1: flag reminded me of this story. And yes, the ethical 504 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:35,080 Speaker 1: the questions, but he's like up and coming he was, 505 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:37,680 Speaker 1: and it became such a problem. He became a fight 506 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:39,640 Speaker 1: between him and the manager, and the manager was like, 507 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, you're gonna have to remove your Danny DeVito 508 00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:46,120 Speaker 1: cut out, and he was like, no, I'm not, I'm 509 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,640 Speaker 1: I quit. You can't tell me what to do in 510 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:53,200 Speaker 1: my space. First off, my favorite Baron Ronoke has like 511 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:57,200 Speaker 1: who is the asshole? I'm sorry? My favorite barn Rono 512 00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,800 Speaker 1: vir Jinny has he's like paying up Danny de Vito 513 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:04,360 Speaker 1: pictures all over, So that reminds me of that fond 514 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:08,480 Speaker 1: memories there. But it's if you have a good relationship 515 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:10,360 Speaker 1: with your employees and you're taking care of them and 516 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:12,320 Speaker 1: you're interacting with them as a human, you can make 517 00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:13,880 Speaker 1: an ask like that and not have it be an 518 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:18,240 Speaker 1: issue you just like if you haven't established that report, sorry, 519 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:24,600 Speaker 1: that's your problem, buddy, right right, Just like I guess, 520 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 1: I guess it. They didn't want him doing meetings with 521 00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:30,480 Speaker 1: clients or something with Dan need to Vito and look, 522 00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:37,320 Speaker 1: you know, okay, I don't know anyways, come on, it's 523 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:39,800 Speaker 1: like where do we learn on Danny de Vito. He 524 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:44,120 Speaker 1: is polarizing, that is for sure. We're all just thinking 525 00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:46,800 Speaker 1: of Danny Vita now, Um yeah, no, it's it's like, 526 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:48,920 Speaker 1: how do you control that space? Who's is it? I 527 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:51,360 Speaker 1: think these are things that we don't have like a 528 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:57,080 Speaker 1: lot of systemic precedent for. Yeah, and now they're there's 529 00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:59,360 Speaker 1: such a push to go back to the office. It's 530 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 1: like we're going to just skip over those conversations. Um, 531 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:06,840 Speaker 1: that could happen now, you know, you could all just 532 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:13,520 Speaker 1: you and your noise everybody. Interesting theory, interesting theory. The 533 00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:15,719 Speaker 1: union could negotiate to keep you out of the office. 534 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 1: That right, right, depends on who our leadership is. I 535 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:24,840 Speaker 1: guess I live in so it's super hard to you 536 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,440 Speaker 1: and you use here, but not with the power Danny 537 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:35,840 Speaker 1: DeVito by your side, I can do all things. All right, 538 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:38,040 Speaker 1: I'm going to make an executive call and we'll take 539 00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:41,480 Speaker 1: into a quick ad break. I'm sorry, Katie, hopefully Danny 540 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:46,400 Speaker 1: DeVito voicing all of them please always. I mean, that 541 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:52,800 Speaker 1: would be really smart approach. I made a joke. I 542 00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:58,760 Speaker 1: think that Danny DeVito is a gem. Okay, we'll be 543 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:11,279 Speaker 1: right back. Everything and during the break, I was like, 544 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,680 Speaker 1: you know, uh, should we just do a national strike 545 00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 1: or we at that point yet? And then he was 546 00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:20,560 Speaker 1: like well, and they're like, all right, let's come back 547 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:27,120 Speaker 1: on air to go ahead. Okay. I mean so in Minecraft, 548 00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:32,160 Speaker 1: like just burning it all down it seems like one 549 00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:34,680 Speaker 1: of the only options left at this point. It's like 550 00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:40,920 Speaker 1: civilizations lost only so long and like you have like 551 00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:43,440 Speaker 1: in order to survive, you have to adapt, and like 552 00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:49,879 Speaker 1: we're not adapting very well. But like m hm, one 553 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:53,200 Speaker 1: of the things that I have learned as a cult 554 00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:59,719 Speaker 1: escape who like ended up losing a large community that 555 00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:03,600 Speaker 1: I grown up in and having to start from square 556 00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:06,839 Speaker 1: one with my belief system and my community and like, 557 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:09,360 Speaker 1: you know, how I interacted with my family, what I 558 00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:11,920 Speaker 1: thought about myself and my place in the world. A 559 00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:16,720 Speaker 1: lot of people are really up for that level of 560 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:21,120 Speaker 1: like risk and commitment. People don't like standing up for things. 561 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:25,160 Speaker 1: They don't want to be uncomfortable. Um, and forgive me 562 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:27,600 Speaker 1: for being super cynical about it, but like on the 563 00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:31,120 Speaker 1: flip side, it's really frustrating to me because I know 564 00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:33,160 Speaker 1: that they can do it, and I know that you 565 00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:35,120 Speaker 1: can be fine because I've done it and I'm fine 566 00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:39,719 Speaker 1: like fine, um, but like but like you can do 567 00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:43,160 Speaker 1: it and you can get through it, and a lot 568 00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:45,680 Speaker 1: of people just can't imagine what that would look like. 569 00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:49,520 Speaker 1: And I think that's that's one of the biggest obstacles 570 00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:53,040 Speaker 1: to something like that. We have. We have a generation 571 00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:55,840 Speaker 1: that hasn't grown up with a strong labor rights movement, 572 00:35:56,120 --> 00:36:00,160 Speaker 1: and we don't like have a positive vision for what 573 00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:03,000 Speaker 1: that future could be. And we really need to get 574 00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:07,279 Speaker 1: creative with that, start dreaming. Yeah, I think I think 575 00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:13,120 Speaker 1: you're correct. I mean, and we are seeing I would hope, um, 576 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:17,279 Speaker 1: signs of a shift in thinking in I mean, just 577 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:21,760 Speaker 1: this yer number of strikes and you know, labor movements 578 00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:28,120 Speaker 1: over the past year, uh, you know, since since the pandemic. Um. 579 00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:31,600 Speaker 1: And so I do feel hope sometimes, but it is 580 00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:34,839 Speaker 1: hard to look at me. I mean, I mean, there's 581 00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:36,440 Speaker 1: just so much. This is the through line of if 582 00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:39,520 Speaker 1: we can get get it the funk together to do 583 00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:42,279 Speaker 1: a national strike on student loans, I feel like the 584 00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:44,840 Speaker 1: rest would take care of usself. But like, yeah, like 585 00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:50,280 Speaker 1: we have to start with something that like universal. Yeah, um, 586 00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:54,360 Speaker 1: well yeah, what do you look like you had some 587 00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:59,000 Speaker 1: you know, I agree, it's just we can't get on 588 00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:01,799 Speaker 1: the same page on any thing. I mean, even like 589 00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:05,120 Speaker 1: you know, uh, we shouldn't have our health care tied 590 00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:07,440 Speaker 1: to our job. I know that's what I was going 591 00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:09,960 Speaker 1: to say, But you can't convince everybody to agree with 592 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:16,799 Speaker 1: you on that. Some reason everybody to care for other 593 00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:22,200 Speaker 1: people like but also yeah, you're you know, asking people 594 00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:25,600 Speaker 1: to like strike to get healthcare not tied to their job. Well, 595 00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:27,600 Speaker 1: if I strike that I don't have the health care 596 00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:30,520 Speaker 1: that I need because I'm on strike. Um, And like 597 00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:33,600 Speaker 1: you're saying, like there's no um, real like vision for 598 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:36,920 Speaker 1: how how it would work, Like how do you how 599 00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:40,600 Speaker 1: do you do that and survive well in the trouble? 600 00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:45,000 Speaker 1: I mean yeah, but the exhausting thing is like other 601 00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:47,279 Speaker 1: people did this and they didn't have a positive vision 602 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:49,600 Speaker 1: for how it would look, Like, um, you could do 603 00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:51,960 Speaker 1: this too. I mean, obviously it's nice to have a 604 00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:54,960 Speaker 1: model that like you can point to and be like 605 00:37:54,960 --> 00:38:00,319 Speaker 1: like that, right, like you know, society's reinvent themselves all 606 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:04,400 Speaker 1: the time without a plan. Yeah. Humans are actually like 607 00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:09,759 Speaker 1: really really really good interestingly enough about like adapting all 608 00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:13,520 Speaker 1: the time all the time. Are resilient, yes they are, 609 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,319 Speaker 1: um and not but not necessarily even like collectively in 610 00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:20,480 Speaker 1: like a like like we as a society are necessarily 611 00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:22,520 Speaker 1: good at adapting and saying like we got to do this, 612 00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:25,520 Speaker 1: and then we do it. But um, you know, when 613 00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:27,719 Speaker 1: our packs are against the wall, we always seem to 614 00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:31,560 Speaker 1: pull through. But but to what you're saying about how 615 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:38,800 Speaker 1: it is, it's it's hard to get people. The situation 616 00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:43,800 Speaker 1: has to be so extreme for people to be willing 617 00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:49,080 Speaker 1: to risk, um, you know, the outcome or whatever, the 618 00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:53,480 Speaker 1: unknown of going up against I mean like, yeah, go ahead, 619 00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:58,080 Speaker 1: Oh I'm just I know she's controversial. But Amanda Palmer 620 00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:02,080 Speaker 1: had this thing in her phone. Um, yeah, well that 621 00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:07,000 Speaker 1: we'll just let that stand. Um, it's fine, Um, we 622 00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:09,239 Speaker 1: don't need to go there. But like in there's this 623 00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:13,680 Speaker 1: story that she tells about, like she's like with an 624 00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:16,040 Speaker 1: older gentleman and there's a dog in the other room 625 00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:18,760 Speaker 1: and the dog just like lying on a wood floor 626 00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:20,840 Speaker 1: with like a nail sticking out of it, and it 627 00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:24,719 Speaker 1: keeps whimpering because it's lying on this nail and it's uncomfortable, 628 00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:27,960 Speaker 1: and she's like, why isn't it moving And he's like, 629 00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:31,640 Speaker 1: because it doesn't hurt enough yet, And it's like we 630 00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:36,959 Speaker 1: are all that dog is her larger point and it's like, yeah, like, yes, 631 00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:39,439 Speaker 1: he will stay in an abusive relationship because it doesn't 632 00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:42,680 Speaker 1: hurt enough yet. Yes, you will stay in an abusive 633 00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:46,000 Speaker 1: job because it does not hurt enough yet. Um, because 634 00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:49,879 Speaker 1: you like being comfortable and you feel like you can 635 00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:51,680 Speaker 1: like wiggle around just a little bit, so like you 636 00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:54,520 Speaker 1: can make a work, like you can do anything for 637 00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:59,879 Speaker 1: five more minutes, right, yeah. Yeah, and the irony being 638 00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:03,680 Speaker 1: there's so much freedom and peace to be found if 639 00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:06,760 Speaker 1: you take that leap, that scary thing, that scary step. 640 00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:12,240 Speaker 1: And I think this all actually goes back to Eve's article. 641 00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:16,840 Speaker 1: I mean it does. It does definitely economic system and 642 00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:22,920 Speaker 1: oppression and c p t s D. It all circles well, 643 00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:26,319 Speaker 1: and this is like yeah, c PTSD. Like one of 644 00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:28,440 Speaker 1: the things that does is it makes you unable to 645 00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:32,560 Speaker 1: imagine what's going to happen in the future, Like I 646 00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:38,080 Speaker 1: have to really like actively proactively planned things, um, because 647 00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:40,520 Speaker 1: usually I'm like I know what I'm doing tomorrow, I'm 648 00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:46,200 Speaker 1: like after that, like like that's how my brain defaults. UM. 649 00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:47,759 Speaker 1: And this is one of those moments where it's like 650 00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:49,800 Speaker 1: is it a d h D or is it c PTSD. 651 00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:53,440 Speaker 1: Probably both, but like I've heard enough from the complex 652 00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:57,279 Speaker 1: PTS community to think that it's it's largely that where 653 00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:01,080 Speaker 1: it's like if I, you know, don't if I don't 654 00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:03,680 Speaker 1: have to get through it immediately, it doesn't exist and 655 00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:08,560 Speaker 1: you can't prey up plan a revolution that way. Well yeah, 656 00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:12,000 Speaker 1: that's like, uh, come back, Like just the environment that 657 00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:16,360 Speaker 1: we're all in now, there's that uncertainty just in like 658 00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:19,200 Speaker 1: you know, anything on an individual level in all people's lives, 659 00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:23,799 Speaker 1: but also just the world, um, with things like climate change, 660 00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:26,640 Speaker 1: with the current war going on, all these sort of 661 00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:28,520 Speaker 1: things where it's like I don't know, you don't know 662 00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:31,000 Speaker 1: what's going to happen the next day. I think a 663 00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:33,799 Speaker 1: lot of people sort of feel like, well then why 664 00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:37,560 Speaker 1: bother planning anything? Um, why not just live this sort 665 00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:39,480 Speaker 1: of moment to moment, not think about the future because 666 00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:42,440 Speaker 1: we have no idea what will come of the future, right, 667 00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:44,640 Speaker 1: because the assumption is that like you don't have control 668 00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:50,320 Speaker 1: over the future, when actually the fuck you do. Exactly. Yeah, 669 00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:52,719 Speaker 1: it's just instead of ignoring it and like trying to 670 00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:55,919 Speaker 1: put it out of your mind, like take grab it. Yeah. 671 00:41:56,880 --> 00:42:00,640 Speaker 1: I think like lighter fluid to that where it was 672 00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:03,640 Speaker 1: like we were all in the state of well, I 673 00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:05,680 Speaker 1: have no idea what's going to happen, so I can't 674 00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:09,960 Speaker 1: plan anything. I can't even plan my next couple of hours, 675 00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:13,479 Speaker 1: all right. Uh. Yeah, that's when I was like, oh, funk, 676 00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:17,120 Speaker 1: this is bad because I was like, everybody is relating 677 00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:20,480 Speaker 1: to time like I do. This is really scary. This 678 00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:23,360 Speaker 1: is not like I'm the weirdo here, Like, let me 679 00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:25,799 Speaker 1: stay the weirdo. You all need to stay normal. We 680 00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:29,400 Speaker 1: have to get through this. Yeah. I felt the same 681 00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:33,120 Speaker 1: exact way. The same way I was like, I was like, Okay, 682 00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:35,479 Speaker 1: I'm used to this, but I don't want anybody else 683 00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:37,839 Speaker 1: to be This is not nobody else should be here. 684 00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:40,480 Speaker 1: This is the this is not this is not the 685 00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:43,240 Speaker 1: side of the table that anybody else should sit at. Yeah. 686 00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:48,640 Speaker 1: I remember um going for a walk socially distance walk 687 00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:55,240 Speaker 1: with my friend uh during that time, and she went, Honestly, Katie, 688 00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:58,239 Speaker 1: I don't know anyone that isn't just absolutely burning their 689 00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:02,239 Speaker 1: life down right now. And I was like, yeah, just 690 00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:06,239 Speaker 1: like it's just like they're like cutting off back, like 691 00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:13,240 Speaker 1: having really extreme reactions, like everybody behaving in very erratic ways. Okay, 692 00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:15,040 Speaker 1: So here's the other thing, is like maybe it wasn't 693 00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:17,440 Speaker 1: so erratic. Maybe this was all the like stuff that 694 00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:19,279 Speaker 1: you put off while you were trying to catch up 695 00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:22,120 Speaker 1: on laundry over the weekend that you like suddenly you 696 00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:24,880 Speaker 1: had to face because you were in the apartment with 697 00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:28,359 Speaker 1: it all day every day, and you're like, I don't 698 00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:31,920 Speaker 1: like living like this. I'm going to there's no from it. 699 00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:34,600 Speaker 1: The number of people who came out as strands during 700 00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:39,000 Speaker 1: the pandemic. Yes, yes, you just having to live with 701 00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:47,080 Speaker 1: yourself and only yourself like reveal so much. Yeah, Um, 702 00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:53,840 Speaker 1: are there any resources or things that people should should 703 00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:57,440 Speaker 1: know about that that we can give listeners as a 704 00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:02,640 Speaker 1: guide after reading an article listening to this discussion. Okay, 705 00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:06,759 Speaker 1: I'm going to give you two different versions of these. 706 00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:10,480 Speaker 1: One is I'm going to give you, um, the recommendation 707 00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:14,279 Speaker 1: for the body keeps the score, which is ubiquitous. I 708 00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:21,080 Speaker 1: was gonna bring it up is Yeah, has been accused 709 00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:24,560 Speaker 1: of predatory behavior in the workplace, So like take that 710 00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:26,279 Speaker 1: with a grade of salt. But like it is a 711 00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:31,560 Speaker 1: fucking good book. Um, there's a memoir out. Oh my god, 712 00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:33,840 Speaker 1: I'm blinking on the name of it. Stephanie Foo is 713 00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:36,560 Speaker 1: the name of the author. Um, and it's a memoir 714 00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:39,839 Speaker 1: about complex PTSD. I'm only halfway through it, but it's 715 00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:42,680 Speaker 1: really fucking good and it just came out UM, and 716 00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:45,640 Speaker 1: then I think it's what my bones know that that 717 00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:49,160 Speaker 1: is what it is. Okay, good, good, thank you. UM. 718 00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:50,279 Speaker 1: And then I'm going to give you a couple of 719 00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:53,759 Speaker 1: semantic tips just like. So, semantic therapy is the only 720 00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:55,799 Speaker 1: thing that I found that's helped me. If you have 721 00:44:56,040 --> 00:45:00,680 Speaker 1: access to e m d R through your UM insurance 722 00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:03,040 Speaker 1: or if you can afford to find an e m 723 00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:05,759 Speaker 1: DR practitioner, it's literally the only thing that I have 724 00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:08,280 Speaker 1: found that has helped it because talk therapy and complex 725 00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:14,799 Speaker 1: CPT therapy is often counterproductive for complex PTSD. UM, So 726 00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:18,080 Speaker 1: semantic therapy is releaseful. And here's a couple of tiny 727 00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:21,080 Speaker 1: semantic hacks that you can do, just like in a 728 00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:24,359 Speaker 1: moment if you're feeling flooded, which is like when you're 729 00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:27,840 Speaker 1: you're on the way to being triggered and you're away 730 00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:30,320 Speaker 1: on the way to like losing control over your reaction 731 00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:35,040 Speaker 1: because it's too much. UM. One is called I mean, 732 00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:37,120 Speaker 1: my therapist just called it tip tap fingers, but like 733 00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:39,520 Speaker 1: I'm sure it has like a more professional name. But 734 00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:41,759 Speaker 1: you just take your thumb and you start on your 735 00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:44,160 Speaker 1: pinkies and you tap your thumb to your pinky than 736 00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:46,440 Speaker 1: to your ring finger, than to your middle finger, than 737 00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:48,439 Speaker 1: to your first finger, and you work your way back 738 00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:51,600 Speaker 1: the same. So don't double tap, but just go. You 739 00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:54,080 Speaker 1: have to do both hands at the same time because 740 00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:59,280 Speaker 1: it crosses the hemispheres of your brain. And wait, wait, 741 00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:04,400 Speaker 1: that is something that I self soothe that way your brain, 742 00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:09,440 Speaker 1: your brain cairal, the can spiral while doing that. This 743 00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:14,479 Speaker 1: is really it is integrating the hemispheres of your brain. 744 00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:18,960 Speaker 1: So you cannot dissociate. You physically cannot dissociate. No, I 745 00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:22,439 Speaker 1: just thought I was a weird person who did doing this. Yeah, 746 00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:28,279 Speaker 1: that's a thing that is tap fingers in notes. Side 747 00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:33,160 Speaker 1: question on this is it is there something uh to music? 748 00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:36,919 Speaker 1: I guess with this um in how like I'm thinking 749 00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:38,920 Speaker 1: of like playing piano or playing a guitar, where like 750 00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:42,920 Speaker 1: your relationship between your hands and your brain, it's basically 751 00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:46,840 Speaker 1: like can you get out of your like spiral and 752 00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:50,040 Speaker 1: back into being present in the moment and like present 753 00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:52,239 Speaker 1: your body. So like whatever it is that does that 754 00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:54,080 Speaker 1: is going to be the thing that's going to like 755 00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:58,440 Speaker 1: cut that spiral cycle. Um, So if it's like singing 756 00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:01,520 Speaker 1: or playing an instrument or dancing or like something where 757 00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:06,080 Speaker 1: you like your your mind body connection gets restored so 758 00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:10,080 Speaker 1: that you're you're in sync with yourself. Um, you're present 759 00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:13,320 Speaker 1: in your body in real time. That that's like the 760 00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:16,000 Speaker 1: fastest way to cut that cycle. So the next thing, 761 00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:18,080 Speaker 1: the other thing that I was gonna share is like 762 00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:21,480 Speaker 1: just it is a semantic breathing exercise. You just put 763 00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:24,080 Speaker 1: your your right hand on your heart, your left hand 764 00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:27,800 Speaker 1: on your abdomen right at the top of your belly, 765 00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:33,239 Speaker 1: and you're just like breathing really slowly. Is that just 766 00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:36,120 Speaker 1: like basic yoga breathing belly breathing very slow in and out, 767 00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:40,680 Speaker 1: you know, count like in for hold, for out for 768 00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:45,319 Speaker 1: But um, the act of crossing the hands in those 769 00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:49,799 Speaker 1: that position again crosses wires in both hemispheres of your 770 00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:54,680 Speaker 1: brain so that it's again you're you're you're restoring that um, 771 00:47:55,080 --> 00:48:01,120 Speaker 1: that somatic rhythm. Love that it is really helpful. Yeah, 772 00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:07,719 Speaker 1: thank you. Wow. The finger thing, I'm like, it's like 773 00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:10,040 Speaker 1: such a good hack. It's such a good hack, Like 774 00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:13,759 Speaker 1: you can do it and like people can't see it. 775 00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:15,279 Speaker 1: You can like have your hands enter at the table 776 00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:17,680 Speaker 1: will be doing it. It's a little tiring, it's a 777 00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:21,520 Speaker 1: little finger workout, it's not disruptive. There there are other 778 00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:24,160 Speaker 1: exercises like that. I mean, the point is to like 779 00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:28,320 Speaker 1: get your mind into play mode and distracted and like present, 780 00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:31,720 Speaker 1: so it's not like that feeling of looseness and oneness 781 00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:34,600 Speaker 1: with your body that you're trying to achieve. And whatever 782 00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:37,919 Speaker 1: gets you there, like go for it absolutely. And also 783 00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:41,200 Speaker 1: heard somebody to talk about like cold water, running your 784 00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:45,080 Speaker 1: cold water over your hands to get you into your 785 00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:50,040 Speaker 1: body again to like connect the sensations and whatnot. And 786 00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:53,840 Speaker 1: one thing I also say is like if you've experienced 787 00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:56,360 Speaker 1: a lot of trauma, your body is not going to 788 00:48:56,440 --> 00:48:58,200 Speaker 1: want to come back. Like you're not gonna want to 789 00:48:58,239 --> 00:49:01,200 Speaker 1: reunite these parts. And its not going to be easy, 790 00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:03,319 Speaker 1: and it's going to take practice and it's gonna take time, 791 00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:06,080 Speaker 1: and it's going to take space. And like, um, you 792 00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:08,759 Speaker 1: know in Minecraft you might want to do mushrooms. Um 793 00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:16,440 Speaker 1: always anyway, I'm not in so we're gonna do it 794 00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:20,520 Speaker 1: in Minecraft here, but you know, um, but like there 795 00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:23,400 Speaker 1: are other ways to get there, but just it's it 796 00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:28,279 Speaker 1: requires just kind of allowing your body to take its 797 00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:36,399 Speaker 1: own time. Yeah, this has been really good, really fascinating. Eve. 798 00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:39,759 Speaker 1: Is there anything I'm gonna link this article in the 799 00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:43,080 Speaker 1: episode description? But is there anything you'd like to plug 800 00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:46,960 Speaker 1: at the end here? Yeah? I have a podcast um 801 00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:50,120 Speaker 1: coasted with Karan dark Water. It's called Kitchen Table Cold. 802 00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:54,359 Speaker 1: We talk about all things fundamentalist, Christian and current politics. Uh. 803 00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:57,840 Speaker 1: Super fun that it's still relevant. I would love to 804 00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:03,000 Speaker 1: be obese, but we're not yet. Um and I don't 805 00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:05,000 Speaker 1: know you. You can find me on Twitter. I hang 806 00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:10,040 Speaker 1: out there sometimes. Unfortunately. What's your Twitter handle? It's e 807 00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:16,080 Speaker 1: Vettinger with an underscore between awesome. Um. Yeah, follow them, 808 00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:20,880 Speaker 1: check them out all the shows. Thank you again so much, 809 00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:24,680 Speaker 1: thank you for having me anytime. You're You're welcome back 810 00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:31,080 Speaker 1: any time. Truly a delight, all right by everyone? Follow 811 00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:35,000 Speaker 1: us at worst your pod at COSNBIA. Have a wonderful day. 812 00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:38,080 Speaker 1: We haven't plugged that so long. I know I'm plugging it. 813 00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:51,080 Speaker 1: Every dull Everything I tried. Worst Year Ever is a 814 00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:53,759 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my 815 00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:56,880 Speaker 1: heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 816 00:50:57,000 --> 00:50:58,840 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.