WEBVTT - Adoption 101 w/ Dan Bucatinsky & David Baum 0:00:05.000 --> 0:00:08.240 Hi everybody, and welcome back to Katie's Crib. So this 0:00:08.360 --> 0:00:12.160 is a big one. November is National Adoption Awareness Month. 0:00:12.320 --> 0:00:14.400 Did you guys know this? We're doing a deep dive 0:00:14.480 --> 0:00:17.680 on this a very important subject. What's the adoption process? Like, 0:00:17.920 --> 0:00:20.000 what's it like to be an adoptive parent? What are 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:23.560 some of the challenges over the next two episodes. That's right, 0:00:23.640 --> 0:00:26.280 this is a two episode special of Katie's Crib. We're 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:27.840 going to get into all of that and so much 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:31.080 more in this episode. I'm talking to my dear, dear 0:00:31.200 --> 0:00:34.880 friend and birthday twin, Dan Buka Tinsky. Do you guys 0:00:34.880 --> 0:00:37.400 remember him? He played James Novak on just this scene 0:00:37.400 --> 0:00:39.800 of this little show called Scandal, and in addition to 0:00:39.800 --> 0:00:42.239 being an actor, Dan is a producer, a writer, and 0:00:42.320 --> 0:00:45.279 an author of the book called Does This Baby Make 0:00:45.360 --> 0:00:48.000 Me Look Straight? After Dan, I talked to the adoption 0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:51.159 attorney David Boum. David has been practicing adoption law for 0:00:51.200 --> 0:00:53.440 over thirty five years and is an adoptive parent himself. 0:00:53.640 --> 0:00:55.400 He breaks down everything we need to know about the 0:00:55.400 --> 0:01:02.640 adoption process. So let's get started. Sitting with me on 0:01:02.680 --> 0:01:06.360 my couch right now is literally one of my favorite 0:01:07.120 --> 0:01:11.480 fucking people on the planet. By far. We are birthday twins. 0:01:11.600 --> 0:01:15.240 We are birthday twins. We met at Scandal, and it 0:01:15.360 --> 0:01:17.280 was like we had known each other since the beginning 0:01:17.319 --> 0:01:19.760 of time. Ladies and Gentlemen, the one, the only Dan 0:01:19.760 --> 0:01:24.600 Buk and we've never ever, ever acted together on the 0:01:24.680 --> 0:01:30.280 screen in all those years. We never got one scene, 0:01:30.319 --> 0:01:32.400 not one scene when we're in together, when you came 0:01:32.440 --> 0:01:36.920 back in a flashback, even in an alternative reality. That's 0:01:36.920 --> 0:01:39.760 because Quinn just didn't Existlin didn't exist in the in 0:01:39.840 --> 0:01:42.759 the world that I was in the bedroom the entire time, 0:01:43.920 --> 0:01:48.720 naked with Jeff Perry for the most part, like maybe 0:01:48.760 --> 0:01:52.120 up your but I had a couple of true I 0:01:52.240 --> 0:01:54.800 don't even get me started on that, but yeah, yeah, 0:01:54.840 --> 0:01:57.480 for the most part. Now, I worked with Tony and 0:01:57.960 --> 0:02:04.640 Bellamine and Josh and Kara. You had never Darby folly 0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:07.040 shot me. So I've worked with everybody but you, Darby 0:02:07.080 --> 0:02:11.280 and Garmo actually and nobody on the Nobody. Yeah. Well, 0:02:11.280 --> 0:02:13.639 your work on Scandal is literally like the you and 0:02:13.720 --> 0:02:17.200 Jeff Perry scene is literally like probably one of my 0:02:17.240 --> 0:02:19.720 top three Scandal scenes of all time. Thank you for 0:02:19.760 --> 0:02:22.800 saying that You're acting is incredible and referring to my 0:02:22.840 --> 0:02:28.160 body that too. That took guys, it is I did 0:02:28.160 --> 0:02:32.040 not know this actually, and I we are informing you 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:35.000 now if if you do know, wonderful. But it is November, 0:02:35.040 --> 0:02:40.359 and November is adoption Awareness month. Um. And Dan Bugatinski 0:02:41.280 --> 0:02:44.480 is a father of two adopted children. Correct and also 0:02:44.560 --> 0:02:48.560 wrote a genius book about the experience, Does Just Baby 0:02:48.600 --> 0:02:53.480 Make Me Look Straight? Which is a freaking amazing title, so, um, 0:02:53.600 --> 0:02:57.840 I don't know? Also available on audiobook. Yes, it's hilarious. 0:02:57.919 --> 0:03:01.000 Do you do the audio? Actually need to download that? 0:03:02.000 --> 0:03:04.880 How do you and Don, your incredible husband, who I'm 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:08.359 also such a fan of, How did you guys come 0:03:08.400 --> 0:03:12.079 to the decision to adopt kids? Well, you know, we 0:03:12.080 --> 0:03:15.480 we decided to become parents first, and when we did, 0:03:16.240 --> 0:03:19.880 obviously for two guys that you have so few options, 0:03:19.919 --> 0:03:24.919 it's either surrogacy or adoption. UM. And you know, Don 0:03:25.320 --> 0:03:29.840 had a really strong feeling about not wanting to not 0:03:30.000 --> 0:03:32.080 wanting to go through this surrogacy for a bunch of 0:03:32.120 --> 0:03:35.400 different reasons. I didn't have as strong a feeling about 0:03:35.680 --> 0:03:39.720 wanting that or not wanting that, um, But he he 0:03:39.840 --> 0:03:42.480 had this feeling about not wanting there to be some 0:03:42.600 --> 0:03:45.320 kind of even if it, as it turns out, you know, 0:03:45.480 --> 0:03:48.200 these things really fade away. But the feeling at the 0:03:48.280 --> 0:03:53.680 time had to do with one person being biologically tied 0:03:53.760 --> 0:03:56.200 to that child and one of them not, and how 0:03:56.240 --> 0:03:58.840 that would be different. And now, of course both of 0:03:58.880 --> 0:04:03.360 us have no DNA in common with our children and 0:04:03.600 --> 0:04:07.920 cannot imagine loving them more than we do without smothering 0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:12.200 them to death. The only type of thing you think, like, 0:04:12.240 --> 0:04:14.960 how is this going to work? And will I feel uncomfortable? 0:04:14.960 --> 0:04:18.400 And you're the sm and I'm not the shot, And 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:21.560 I think it had exactly I think it was this 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:23.479 fantasy of like when I look in the eyes of 0:04:23.520 --> 0:04:26.560 my children and I see you in there, where will 0:04:26.600 --> 0:04:28.960 I be? Will I disappear? So there's and that's a 0:04:29.080 --> 0:04:33.080 very completely normal and completely understandable feeling. There was this 0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:36.239 other aspect of it, which was we were unbelievably aware 0:04:36.600 --> 0:04:39.159 he has a niece and a nephew who are adopted, 0:04:39.640 --> 0:04:42.880 and there was a huge awareness of the number of 0:04:43.000 --> 0:04:47.320 children currently and babies currently born every day and who 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:51.040 are currently in the foster system, And it was a 0:04:51.080 --> 0:04:55.120 desire to try to make a home for what is 0:04:55.160 --> 0:04:59.920 already what's already on our planet as opposed to creating 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:04.839 new life given the state of the planet that we're in. Um, 0:05:04.880 --> 0:05:09.320 so you said you already knew adoptive So Don's sibling 0:05:09.560 --> 0:05:12.919 was also an adoptive parents that was probably and well 0:05:13.880 --> 0:05:16.960 as like an inspiration or what was certainly in that 0:05:17.720 --> 0:05:21.240 in the knowledge of that it was it was around us. 0:05:21.360 --> 0:05:24.200 Did you use a public or private agency? Independent opener 0:05:24.240 --> 0:05:26.760 clothes like, tell me the specifics of your adoption. And 0:05:26.760 --> 0:05:28.320 there are a lot of different ways of doing it. 0:05:28.360 --> 0:05:30.960 And the bottom line is adoption is a wonderful thing, 0:05:31.000 --> 0:05:32.560 but you have to do a version of it that 0:05:32.640 --> 0:05:36.159 works for your family. You cannot judge yourself based I think, 0:05:36.520 --> 0:05:38.760 based on the choices that you want to make. You 0:05:38.800 --> 0:05:41.080 have to do make choices that will work for you 0:05:41.200 --> 0:05:45.279 as a as a family. And um we worked with 0:05:45.360 --> 0:05:49.719 a private lawyer UM in Los Angeles who we had 0:05:50.400 --> 0:05:53.640 been referred to by many people who had used him. 0:05:53.680 --> 0:05:58.080 And we used a public, you know, nonprofit social services 0:05:58.120 --> 0:06:00.800 agency called called Vista del mar Are, which I'm a 0:06:00.880 --> 0:06:03.200 huge I'm on the board of now, but I wasn't 0:06:03.200 --> 0:06:05.800 at the time. And in conjunction, the two things, in 0:06:05.839 --> 0:06:09.320 conjunction with each other was like a perfect mix because 0:06:09.640 --> 0:06:13.000 the resources we got from the Family Services agency, which 0:06:13.040 --> 0:06:15.719 was a social worker to talk to us, a parenting 0:06:15.760 --> 0:06:19.760 class that we joined, which is a hilarious story, and um, 0:06:21.800 --> 0:06:25.200 it was so funny because all right, well, and that 0:06:25.320 --> 0:06:28.839 alongside with someone who you're paying to basically do the 0:06:28.880 --> 0:06:31.400 outreach to try to match you with a birth mom, 0:06:31.400 --> 0:06:33.960 those two things in concert with each other. And at 0:06:33.960 --> 0:06:36.840 California birth which is a state that allows two men 0:06:36.920 --> 0:06:40.039 to adopt jointly at the same time, because in other 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:43.240 states one parent has to adopt and then a year 0:06:43.320 --> 0:06:45.920 later the other one can legally be put on. But 0:06:46.040 --> 0:06:49.200 we for many reasons, we wanted the adoption and we 0:06:49.240 --> 0:06:51.560 wanted the birth to happen in Los Angeles, and this 0:06:51.640 --> 0:06:53.760 was a lawyer that was going to facilitate that. But 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:56.760 this is Delmar was an amazing organization that allowed not 0:06:56.920 --> 0:07:00.240 only social services and a social worker to talk to us, 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:04.839 but gave that birth mom a resource that she normally 0:07:04.839 --> 0:07:08.120 would never have. And I can't talk more highly about 0:07:08.680 --> 0:07:11.880 the experience of adopting when you're doing open adoption where 0:07:11.880 --> 0:07:14.000 you're going to meet a birth mom before the baby 0:07:14.080 --> 0:07:17.480 is born, right, So just explain quickly, like open adoption 0:07:17.600 --> 0:07:20.200 is like you're involved with the you know the mom, 0:07:20.280 --> 0:07:24.760 you're chosen, and then afterwards you can even stay open 0:07:24.760 --> 0:07:27.480 as far as communication, it's completely It is a decision 0:07:27.520 --> 0:07:30.480 you all make together as as a team, and open 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:32.960 adoption is one. And it's called open because you know 0:07:33.000 --> 0:07:35.360 who the birth mother is, she knows who you are. 0:07:35.840 --> 0:07:39.240 You have an open line of communication, and the decision 0:07:39.320 --> 0:07:43.480 to place that child with you is as decision made 0:07:43.480 --> 0:07:47.080 by her, whereas many people have this idea of adoption 0:07:47.120 --> 0:07:50.960 of walking into an orphanage and pointing to the baby 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:53.200 that you want and being and carrying it away, which 0:07:53.200 --> 0:07:55.560 is a very it's not how it happened, And so 0:07:55.600 --> 0:07:59.000 a closed adoption would be the files are closed. The 0:07:59.040 --> 0:08:02.800 files are closed. You're like, you're told your baby is born, 0:08:03.280 --> 0:08:05.960 and it's all through like legal or birth mother does 0:08:06.040 --> 0:08:09.680 not really want any more ties for emotional reasons. She's like, 0:08:09.720 --> 0:08:12.720 I'm going to place this child. I don't want them 0:08:12.760 --> 0:08:15.280 to know I want I don't want them to contact me. 0:08:15.600 --> 0:08:17.480 This is a decision I want to make. I know 0:08:17.560 --> 0:08:19.440 they're going to be in better hands, but I don't 0:08:19.520 --> 0:08:24.240 want to be contacted. And that's just a personal emotional decision. 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:26.840 And so a closed adoption is one where you are 0:08:26.880 --> 0:08:30.200 given access to a new baby and that information is sealed. 0:08:30.680 --> 0:08:35.600 So take me through the process of your adoption, Like, um, 0:08:35.880 --> 0:08:38.320 how long was it? What was the process? Like you, 0:08:38.320 --> 0:08:40.600 I'm sure you going to fill out the most paperwork ever, 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:43.360 like we had to fill out. I mean, here's the 0:08:43.400 --> 0:08:47.520 most ironic thing, which is when you're not when you 0:08:47.679 --> 0:08:51.319 have a child biologically, you don't need to be fingerprinted, 0:08:51.559 --> 0:08:54.040 you don't need a background check, No one does a 0:08:54.080 --> 0:08:57.600 home study. You could literally be living in a nest 0:08:57.760 --> 0:09:02.640 with a giant ostrich and no access to child proofing 0:09:03.080 --> 0:09:07.160 at all anywhere, and no outlets to even put childproofing 0:09:07.240 --> 0:09:10.920 on in your giant nest, and you're allowed to do 0:09:10.960 --> 0:09:17.360 so because you you are literally three visits from social workers, 0:09:17.559 --> 0:09:23.480 absolute checking to make sure and then background checks, fingerprintings 0:09:23.640 --> 0:09:26.480 and they know yes, but that's they don't really base 0:09:26.520 --> 0:09:29.520 adoption on that as much as well your ability to 0:09:29.559 --> 0:09:32.559 care for the child for sure, but they they really 0:09:32.559 --> 0:09:34.840 screen you, you you really and you start to think about 0:09:34.880 --> 0:09:36.720 it and you think, well, I think every parent and 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:42.080 is it like boy or girl or no? But but 0:09:42.200 --> 0:09:44.520 you do make decisions. You make decisions where you're like, 0:09:44.559 --> 0:09:47.200 all right, we're both white men. It's gonna be enough. 0:09:47.280 --> 0:09:49.480 This is the way we thought, it will be a 0:09:49.600 --> 0:09:53.240 challenge enough for this child to grow up without a 0:09:53.320 --> 0:09:56.120 mom and with two dads. That on top of that, 0:09:56.280 --> 0:09:58.640 for them to not look like either one of us 0:09:58.920 --> 0:10:01.000 and to feel like an ow side or even in 0:10:01.080 --> 0:10:04.400 how they look or feel or what the culture that 0:10:04.440 --> 0:10:07.360 they grew up in or whatever their ethnic ties are 0:10:07.840 --> 0:10:10.319 wasn't something that we were comfortable with, and we felt 0:10:10.320 --> 0:10:12.439 like to stack the deck in their favor. We would 0:10:12.440 --> 0:10:14.520 make the only obstacle for them is to live with 0:10:14.559 --> 0:10:17.080 the idea that they are coming from the same set up, 0:10:17.200 --> 0:10:20.040 same sex couple. Now I have family from Argentina and 0:10:20.080 --> 0:10:22.240 I speak Spanish, and so I was really open to, 0:10:23.120 --> 0:10:27.680 you know, raising a Latin American kid. We tried everything 0:10:27.880 --> 0:10:30.720 to be able to adopt a Latin American kid, and 0:10:30.760 --> 0:10:35.320 the it was it's very closed for religious reason reasons. 0:10:35.360 --> 0:10:39.080 The gay community is not open. It's very rare for 0:10:39.160 --> 0:10:44.520 an Latin American so far birth mother to choose. To guys, 0:10:45.080 --> 0:10:47.720 what's the most common is sort of what happened to us, 0:10:48.200 --> 0:10:52.880 which is a single mom to that process. What happened. Yeah. Basically, 0:10:53.200 --> 0:10:54.920 you know when you talk to a lawyer, what most 0:10:54.920 --> 0:10:56.839 of the resources that you give to a lawyer in 0:10:56.920 --> 0:10:59.840 addition to his fee, is he spends money for out 0:11:00.280 --> 0:11:03.199 to allow people in this country to know if they 0:11:03.240 --> 0:11:06.600 are pregnant and do not want to carry the baby, 0:11:06.600 --> 0:11:10.240 but they don't want to choose termination, that there's another way. 0:11:10.480 --> 0:11:13.920 And so he you know, advertises in yellow pages and 0:11:14.000 --> 0:11:19.080 online they make no this is an attorney that makes 0:11:19.080 --> 0:11:21.640 it very very easy for someone to try to be 0:11:21.679 --> 0:11:23.760 able to make that choice. And what he does is 0:11:23.760 --> 0:11:25.600 he takes all the people on his list, all the 0:11:25.720 --> 0:11:30.280 prospective parents, straight, gay, single marriage, all the types, and 0:11:30.320 --> 0:11:34.439 he will give each birth mother three choices. And what 0:11:34.520 --> 0:11:38.800 we have to present is a birth mother letter. Just 0:11:38.960 --> 0:11:42.160 one letter is which is it's a brochure, so a 0:11:42.160 --> 0:11:45.680 whole packet to the life that just so you know, 0:11:45.760 --> 0:11:49.080 this was fifteen years ago. So know that now most 0:11:49.120 --> 0:11:51.719 of the stuff is digital, although there are there are 0:11:51.760 --> 0:11:54.839 people who still to this day feel like you you know, 0:11:55.000 --> 0:11:57.920 you make no better impression than if then real photographs. 0:11:58.320 --> 0:12:01.080 That to just some you know, digital is so easy 0:12:01.120 --> 0:12:03.680 and so quick, and so that in a way, anything 0:12:03.720 --> 0:12:06.520 to give yourself anything to give yourself up to FedEx 0:12:06.600 --> 0:12:10.079 them and envelope with a letter that makes reference to 0:12:10.160 --> 0:12:12.480 what your phone call with them was about. Believe me, 0:12:12.520 --> 0:12:15.080 you get you get trained in all of this. You 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:17.960 get told this whole process taking guys from like the 0:12:18.040 --> 0:12:22.520 conversations to having adopting a child to win she I 0:12:22.520 --> 0:12:25.000 mean when she was we had one false alarm, which 0:12:25.040 --> 0:12:28.120 is all detailed in my book. Not to make people 0:12:28.120 --> 0:12:29.959 go out and get it, but there's a very detailed 0:12:30.000 --> 0:12:33.000 story about the first birth mother we were involved with 0:12:33.080 --> 0:12:35.360 and what and how that went down a path that 0:12:35.400 --> 0:12:37.600 didn't feel comfortable for us, so we ended it. And 0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:42.560 then on our birthday September, the year before my daughter 0:12:42.640 --> 0:12:45.800 was born, so two thousand four, we got a phone 0:12:45.800 --> 0:12:48.040 call from a birth mom and it was set up 0:12:48.080 --> 0:12:49.720 by the lawyer. He's like, she's going to call you 0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:52.000 at this time, and she did, and we were both 0:12:52.000 --> 0:12:55.160 on different extensions and we had a long conversation. And 0:12:55.200 --> 0:13:00.160 then from that September, by March, she was already three 0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:03.200 months pregnant. By by March, we were in the delivery 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:06.000 room with her. So she picked us pretty quickly, and 0:13:06.000 --> 0:13:08.520 she told us that she chose us because she was 0:13:08.559 --> 0:13:12.439 a fan of the show Queer Eye for the Straight Guy. 0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:15.000 So to this day, every time I run into David Collins, 0:13:15.040 --> 0:13:17.280 who created that show, I'm like, he goes, I know, 0:13:17.480 --> 0:13:19.760 I know you have me to thank for your family, 0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:22.040 because I say to him every time, but I always 0:13:22.040 --> 0:13:24.240 get teary when I see him. Wow. What was in 0:13:24.280 --> 0:13:28.600 your brochure? We have? Ours was? Um, let's see, it 0:13:28.600 --> 0:13:31.960 was like six pages, and we showed lots of photographs 0:13:32.120 --> 0:13:36.880 us with our dogs, us traveling, us at home. We 0:13:37.000 --> 0:13:40.640 described what each of us liked to do. We exaggerated. 0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:43.920 Don may have lied about how much she exercises or 0:13:43.960 --> 0:13:47.160 goes outside. Maybe it's just the time we did. I 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:51.040 may have oversold how much tennis I play, um, but 0:13:51.160 --> 0:13:55.240 for these small things. And neither one of us are 0:13:55.320 --> 0:13:58.400 very religious, but both of us consider ourselves fairly spiritual people. 0:13:58.400 --> 0:14:00.400 So we mentioned that because we certainly didn't want to 0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:04.000 close ourselves off to someone who was looking for a 0:14:04.000 --> 0:14:06.280 religious family, except that we were clearly not a very 0:14:06.320 --> 0:14:08.640 religious family. So if that's what you're looking for, wasn't 0:14:08.640 --> 0:14:11.240 going to be us. So we we tried to give 0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:13.480 a full picture of who we were as a couple 0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:16.120 and what kind of home we were hoping to create 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:19.360 for a family and um. And the other thing we did, 0:14:19.400 --> 0:14:21.200 which was something that had been told to us, which 0:14:21.240 --> 0:14:24.200 is really important, is you take copious notes when you're 0:14:24.240 --> 0:14:26.120 on the phone with the birth mom, and you ask 0:14:26.240 --> 0:14:30.040 them as many questions as possible about them and their interests. 0:14:30.440 --> 0:14:32.000 One of the things you don't want to do is 0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:35.760 make someone feel like you hold the key to our 0:14:35.840 --> 0:14:38.720 future as parents. So just tell me what you've been eating, 0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:41.360 tell me how much you smoke, tell me if you drank, 0:14:41.640 --> 0:14:44.440 tell me, like if they feel like they're on trial. 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:48.280 It's not a great way to start that relationship. And again, 0:14:48.560 --> 0:14:50.880 and the truth is that baby isn't yours until it's 0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:53.320 in your arms and a waiver has been signed. So 0:14:53.480 --> 0:14:55.800 the tense part of it, you can't tell her or 0:14:55.920 --> 0:14:58.360 judge her. However, the pregnancy, you can have as many 0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:00.680 thoughts as you want. During the pro says our birth 0:15:00.680 --> 0:15:02.960 mom smoked a pack a day the whole time, and 0:15:03.000 --> 0:15:05.600 she kept promising me that she would quit the minute 0:15:05.640 --> 0:15:07.680 the baby was born, and she didn't seem to understand 0:15:07.920 --> 0:15:09.720 that I didn't want her to quit for her sake. 0:15:09.800 --> 0:15:11.560 I want her to quit for my baby's sake did 0:15:11.600 --> 0:15:16.320 an intensive screening process of them. Of the when you're 0:15:16.360 --> 0:15:19.040 filling out all the paperwork that you are one of 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:21.960 these couple that is going to be shouted from the rooftop. 0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:24.040 As I said before, you have to do a bunch 0:15:24.160 --> 0:15:29.240 of Uh you have to do screening, visit to your house, uh, 0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:33.360 fingerprinting and then fingerprints. Oh yeah, I wasn't kidding. A 0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:37.000 background check. You can't sign up and have a you know, 0:15:37.520 --> 0:15:38.960 I mean maybe you can get a lawyer to help 0:15:38.960 --> 0:15:40.800 you find a baby, but you're not. Just makes sense. 0:15:40.800 --> 0:15:42.280 You don't want something to be like and also just 0:15:42.600 --> 0:15:45.600 also to spell Another myth is that this this is 0:15:45.640 --> 0:15:48.360 not baby buying. That's illegal in this entire country. You 0:15:48.440 --> 0:15:50.360 never pay a fee to a birth mom to give 0:15:50.360 --> 0:15:53.440 you a baby. You pay her medical expenses and they 0:15:53.560 --> 0:15:57.200 and what usually happens is you put money in escrow 0:15:57.240 --> 0:15:59.920 with the attorney and the birth mom has to sit 0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:02.440 meet her bills to the attorney and they get paid 0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:04.720 out of that scrow account. But they have to be 0:16:05.360 --> 0:16:08.640 pregnancy related. And why that is is very very smart 0:16:08.920 --> 0:16:11.640 because if at any point in the future she could 0:16:11.680 --> 0:16:15.040 prove to a judge that there had been money exchanged 0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:17.200 just for the exchange of the baby, she could claim 0:16:17.240 --> 0:16:20.760 that she was coerced, So everything has to be documented. 0:16:21.440 --> 0:16:25.520 And it's it really is this unbelievably touching moment when 0:16:25.560 --> 0:16:31.240 you're chosen by someone else to be entrusted to become 0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:35.440 the parent of their of their unborn baby, and it's 0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:37.880 a decision that they don't really actually sign off on 0:16:37.960 --> 0:16:40.600 until after the baby has been born. So you're really 0:16:40.840 --> 0:16:44.520 very tense until until that's finished. Because you hear these 0:16:44.520 --> 0:16:49.360 stories about moms saying not signing, or your stories and 0:16:49.400 --> 0:16:52.160 they don't they change their mind, say I changed my mind. 0:16:52.840 --> 0:16:55.400 It is one of the listen So how did you 0:16:55.440 --> 0:17:00.120 prepare to welcome Eliza? Like emotionally psychologically, how did you? 0:17:00.800 --> 0:17:03.720 I mean it sounds like you were like cautiously optimistic. 0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:08.960 I will say in the similar ways that any conventional 0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:11.840 couple that that where the mom is expecting a baby 0:17:12.280 --> 0:17:14.679 is you know, you know your first you know your 0:17:14.680 --> 0:17:16.280 first three months, so you don't want to tell anybody 0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:18.840 because you're like, what if something happens, So you don't 0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:22.320 tell anybody. Well, in many ways, we we have that 0:17:22.359 --> 0:17:24.600 for nine months, although we found out a three months, 0:17:24.600 --> 0:17:26.560 so we had that for six months. There were so 0:17:26.560 --> 0:17:28.359 many ways where we were like, why are we going 0:17:28.400 --> 0:17:31.800 to paint an entire room and get ourselves this ready 0:17:31.880 --> 0:17:34.959 and make the birth mom feel like she really the 0:17:35.000 --> 0:17:37.600 only reason we value her or care about her is 0:17:37.640 --> 0:17:39.720 because of this thing she's going to give us. We 0:17:39.880 --> 0:17:43.040 downplay it because, as I said in my book and 0:17:43.040 --> 0:17:45.440 I say all the time, this is one of those 0:17:45.520 --> 0:17:51.440 rare transactions where the happiest day of your life quite 0:17:51.440 --> 0:17:53.880 possibly could be the saddest day in in a woman's life, 0:17:54.240 --> 0:17:57.280 and you can't not look at that, you can't not 0:17:57.480 --> 0:18:00.680 be sensitive to that. It's like this very very strange 0:18:00.720 --> 0:18:03.919 passing over of caring for this woman, this young she 0:18:04.080 --> 0:18:06.240 was in our our birth one was nineteen at the time, 0:18:06.520 --> 0:18:09.679 so we have a very paternal relationship towards her, and 0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:12.720 you're caring for her and wanting her to emotionally trust 0:18:12.800 --> 0:18:14.560 you when you take me through when you got the 0:18:14.600 --> 0:18:16.879 call that like she was in labor. And as I 0:18:16.920 --> 0:18:18.600 said before, one of the reasons we wanted to have 0:18:18.720 --> 0:18:22.199 this baby in California is because it's California is a 0:18:22.240 --> 0:18:24.280 state where the fact that the baby is born in 0:18:24.359 --> 0:18:27.000 a hospital in l a allowed both of us to 0:18:27.040 --> 0:18:29.439 be in the delivery room and allowed us both to 0:18:29.480 --> 0:18:31.960 be on the birth certificate when when and when, which 0:18:32.000 --> 0:18:36.800 was an amazing thing for us, came out. Yes, as 0:18:36.920 --> 0:18:41.880 was my friend Mary. It was unbelievable. It was unbelievable, 0:18:41.920 --> 0:18:43.479 I mean, to be in that room and to have 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:47.280 that baby. And I was petrified by the way you 0:18:47.320 --> 0:18:50.080 were going to faith at the site up to a 0:18:50.240 --> 0:18:53.600 day before. It was like, this is don is so 0:18:53.720 --> 0:18:58.840 not He didn't look. He didn't. Did he say to section? 0:18:58.880 --> 0:19:01.640 He didn't. That's and there's a mirror of the ceiling 0:19:01.800 --> 0:19:04.920 so you cannot look up, so he just kept his 0:19:04.960 --> 0:19:07.320 eyes down. I cut the umbilical quarter. He would have 0:19:07.320 --> 0:19:10.800 passed out and um. And as soon as she was 0:19:11.600 --> 0:19:13.840 I think was it an appointment like she had a 0:19:13.840 --> 0:19:17.919 scheduled Yes, except that with on my first with Eliza, 0:19:18.600 --> 0:19:22.200 what happens is in the last three weeks of the pregnancy, 0:19:22.359 --> 0:19:24.480 the birth mom comes to Los Angeles at least this 0:19:24.560 --> 0:19:26.320 is the way we did it, and she stays in 0:19:26.480 --> 0:19:29.080 l A. We put her up somewhere and she was 0:19:29.119 --> 0:19:30.760 here with her two twins who are a year and 0:19:30.760 --> 0:19:33.919 a half old, and we were very much involved in 0:19:34.000 --> 0:19:36.160 taking care of her and her one and a half 0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:39.919 year old twins in preparation for her gave birth. So 0:19:40.000 --> 0:19:42.080 every visit to the O b g y N we 0:19:42.160 --> 0:19:45.520 did together. Um, every cigarette break in between those O 0:19:45.600 --> 0:19:48.119 b g y N segments we were dealt there with her. 0:19:48.400 --> 0:19:51.560 We did together. Nothing like being on the streets of 0:19:51.600 --> 0:19:55.959 Beverly Hills with a nine month pregnant woman chugging up 0:19:56.160 --> 0:20:00.359 just ripping smokes and the looks on the on the 0:20:00.400 --> 0:20:03.439 faces of the people walking by were fascinating, and she 0:20:03.560 --> 0:20:06.639 loved every minute. Um. But what happened was we were 0:20:06.680 --> 0:20:08.880 going to the grove. I was spending the morning with 0:20:09.040 --> 0:20:10.840 the twins and her, and we went to the grove 0:20:10.920 --> 0:20:13.840 and we had a smoothie and she after the smoothie, 0:20:13.840 --> 0:20:16.280 she absolutely swore to me she was going into labor. 0:20:16.320 --> 0:20:20.320 She was like having unbelievable contractions, or so she thought. 0:20:20.640 --> 0:20:23.200 And so it was like, oh my god, code red 0:20:23.240 --> 0:20:24.800 and I threw her in the car and I was 0:20:24.840 --> 0:20:29.520 like driving to the hospital, and um, it's happening. It's happening. 0:20:29.600 --> 0:20:31.719 And we were looking for someone to watch her twins 0:20:31.760 --> 0:20:33.640 while we were going to the hospital. Like, we were 0:20:33.680 --> 0:20:37.800 not prepared because the plan was a scheduled sea for 0:20:37.840 --> 0:20:41.000 a week later from that, her mother had a ticket 0:20:41.000 --> 0:20:43.320 to come to Los Angeles to meet us, that she 0:20:43.640 --> 0:20:46.240 would have her mom and also help with her because 0:20:46.280 --> 0:20:48.800 it's emotional, and she would fly and she would stay 0:20:48.840 --> 0:20:52.120 for a week and then fly back to Wisconsin with her, 0:20:52.720 --> 0:20:56.280 and all that was in the planned. We did not 0:20:56.400 --> 0:20:59.199 plan for one week early. And so there we were 0:20:59.240 --> 0:21:01.320 in the hospital and we called O O G y 0:21:01.440 --> 0:21:02.720 N and he was like, we have to wait for 0:21:02.760 --> 0:21:05.280 that smoothie to pass through her, so we can't do 0:21:05.320 --> 0:21:10.000 this until tonight. But you know, and I know, but 0:21:10.760 --> 0:21:15.000 we out came a laza a week early. Wow, And 0:21:15.760 --> 0:21:17.879 we were not prepared for that. And I was in 0:21:17.920 --> 0:21:20.840 the middle of shooting a pilot and so I had 0:21:20.840 --> 0:21:22.640 to take a couple of days off. Like you had said, 0:21:22.840 --> 0:21:25.359 was the nursery, So like you guys weren't really prepared 0:21:25.400 --> 0:21:28.199 at home because they were being cautiously optimistic because and 0:21:28.280 --> 0:21:31.520 when the nursery wasn't painted, there wasn't like cribs. And 0:21:31.600 --> 0:21:33.480 she showed up for the last month. She was like, 0:21:33.600 --> 0:21:36.600