Speaker 1: Still on stage that time at church for the first
Speaker 1: time singing that song. It was the first time that
Speaker 1: I ever felt comfortable on stage in my own skin.
Speaker 2: Welcome to Episode four fifty five with Zach Williams. My
Speaker 2: introduction to Zach was somebody going, hey, how long have
Speaker 2: you known Zach Williams? That this is the opera And
Speaker 2: I was like, I don't know Zach Williams. Like voice
Speaker 2: form Mararkansas. So I think people just think we all
Speaker 2: know each other it's all the time. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 2: it's not a terribly small state. It's I mean it's
Speaker 2: I guess smaller, but there's like millions of people that
Speaker 2: live there. Yeah, you don't know everybody. It's like, hey,
Speaker 2: I drove through Arkansas once.
Speaker 3: You know him?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that and I was like, I do not.
Speaker 2: And then I introduced him at the opera. I was
Speaker 2: familiar with his music, but really didn't know his story
Speaker 2: story until he came over, and you know, we'd kind
Speaker 2: of done some research on him. First of all, he's
Speaker 2: just an amazing live performer. That's what I knew from
Speaker 2: watching him perform. And in the intro I had talked
Speaker 2: about like, but I don't write the intro for the Opry.
Speaker 2: So our producer with the Opry, who's awesome, writes the intro,
Speaker 2: and in that intro he was kind of telling me
Speaker 2: a bit about Zach's story and yeah, this dude, I mean,
Speaker 2: he went through it. Yeah, but he went through it
Speaker 2: in a way of you know, he tried to be
Speaker 2: a rock star, was on the way, but kind of
Speaker 2: just got taken over by the not good parts of
Speaker 2: the road. And what's crazy is it's like when he
Speaker 2: stopped chasing it, it's like when it started chasing him
Speaker 2: back again. And you'll hear all of this in the story.
Speaker 2: This dude's also big tall guy. Yeah from the opery
Speaker 2: he was like twenty feet away, didn't seem that tall,
Speaker 2: but especially in boots, but you know, basketball player. But
Speaker 2: this is that story of somebody who really wanted it,
Speaker 2: went hard at it, probably was good enough to get
Speaker 2: up and made a couple of other decisions that didn't
Speaker 2: allow it and just kind of allowed it just to
Speaker 2: take him to where and now he's back kind of
Speaker 2: to where he wanted to be, but just in a
Speaker 2: different lane. It's a great story. I liked him a
Speaker 2: lot from this stick out to you. I mean I
Speaker 2: just love any story of somebody making it later in life.
Speaker 2: It's just kind of inspiring to me of like even
Speaker 2: if you have a dream that hasn't worked out early, like,
Speaker 2: don't give up on it.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: He's got an album one hundred Highways now that's been
Speaker 2: out for about a year and a half or so.
Speaker 2: He's got Live at the Moody Theater Austin City Limits
Speaker 2: that's out, but it's songs that are on other records.
Speaker 2: He's got a children's book that's coming out, which we
Speaker 2: talked about. But it kind of tricked me because, yeah,
Speaker 2: you'll hear it. Zach Williams Great. Follow him Zach Williams
Speaker 2: Music on Instagram. And away we go.
Speaker 3: Where to Arkansas? Are you from?
Speaker 2: I am from We're rolling.
Speaker 3: If you're good, I'm good.
Speaker 2: I'm from a town called Mountain Pine that is central.
Speaker 2: It's about when we would go to town. Town would
Speaker 2: be Hot Springs, oh yeah. And then from Hot Springs
Speaker 2: if you were going to go to any sort of
Speaker 2: touring anything, it was Little Rock, which was an hour away.
Speaker 3: So it was.
Speaker 2: Town was where Walmart was the edge Hot Springs, and
Speaker 2: then Little Rock was where the Arkansas travelers they were
Speaker 2: in Little Rocks then yeah, and then uh, anything coming
Speaker 2: through you know, it's cool. And you're from near jones.
Speaker 1: Boro, I'm from Yeah, a little town called Bono. Actually,
Speaker 1: it's like twelve hundred people.
Speaker 2: So I played a bunch of baseball, so we'd travel around.
Speaker 2: If you played Legion ball in Arkansas, you pretty much
Speaker 2: go everywhere.
Speaker 3: It was.
Speaker 2: Bono. Bono. Bono was the school Bono. There wasn't one time,
Speaker 2: because I don't remember a Bono school district.
Speaker 1: I went to Bono until second grade, and then there
Speaker 1: was a there was a several schools around that area
Speaker 1: that consolidated and started a high school called west Side
Speaker 1: High School.
Speaker 2: And that was just in the edge of like Jonesboro. Yeah,
Speaker 2: what was the Bono What was the Bono mascot chiefs?
Speaker 2: The Bono Chiefs. Cool, it was like the Bono Sonnies.
Speaker 2: It was.
Speaker 3: It was a yeah, I mean a small old town. Yeah,
Speaker 3: but I know where you're from. Hello, thank you.
Speaker 2: He's the most punct He's awesome. Hey, all right, what
Speaker 2: do you got here?
Speaker 3: Got you my new children's book? In my new book
Speaker 3: that's passing on over here?
Speaker 2: What's up?
Speaker 3: That's not the actual book, it's just a cover.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's not really the book.
Speaker 3: It's not. It doesn't come out till August.
Speaker 2: I would have given you a pre release. When I
Speaker 2: first looked at that, I was like, this is not
Speaker 2: my hold it up here for the camera. Look, this
Speaker 2: is not the book, but it's going to look something
Speaker 2: like this. Is this the actual size of the book though, Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's underneath a little more like Jesus. And then this
Speaker 2: book though, is that you can stay? Are you staying
Speaker 2: or going?
Speaker 3: Well?
Speaker 2: That's quick? All right, Well, good thanks, good to see
Speaker 2: you appreciate it, made an entrance, made it goodbye, And
Speaker 2: then this is this is your book?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: When did this will come out?
Speaker 3: Uh? That came out. I'm trying to think the end
Speaker 3: of April. It's been out. No, end of February. It's
Speaker 3: been out for about a month.
Speaker 2: Oh, it's still new. It's new. So the weird let
Speaker 2: me ask you. I want to come back to the
Speaker 2: the book in a second. But the weird part about
Speaker 2: Arkansas and growing up is that it's it's odd whenever
Speaker 2: someone goes, I'm from here and you don't know the mascot.
Speaker 2: That's why I asked what the mascot was. Usually if
Speaker 2: someone comes in and there from like, I'm from this,
Speaker 2: I went to college here. I know them all, but
Speaker 2: I didn't know Bono, the Bono Chiefs and now the
Speaker 2: west Side Warriors. Warriors, did you have a warrior mascot
Speaker 2: like dressed up in a suit and what's the dative American?
Speaker 2: Did you have to stop?
Speaker 3: We did, and I think they did have to stop.
Speaker 2: All.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it got political there for a little bit. How
Speaker 3: tall are you? Six six? God?
Speaker 2: Dang, I don't realize that you're that big. So we've met, Okay,
Speaker 2: I'm just making sure.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we met at the Yeah.
Speaker 2: I was telling them like, I don't know if if
Speaker 2: you remember meeting me, but I remember meeting you absolutely.
Speaker 2: And one of the things was our like my buddy,
Speaker 2: and he was part of my crew Read the first
Speaker 2: time you were scheduled, his grandma died, so we had
Speaker 2: to like last minute kind of push everything.
Speaker 1: I think I met him at rehearsals if you maybe
Speaker 1: a month ago before the tour started, and he was.
Speaker 2: Like, whenever Zach comes in, I want to be there,
Speaker 2: and so we rescheduled and then Read's gone again today,
Speaker 2: so it's really going to drive him crazy. I did
Speaker 2: not know you were six six, Yeah, I know you
Speaker 2: played ball.
Speaker 3: Did ye played play a year in college basketball? Right? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I went to college for to play and I tore
Speaker 1: my leg up, tore my ankle at my first first season.
Speaker 2: I'm going to come back to that. So I want
Speaker 2: to talk about the book for a second. So a
Speaker 2: month why this sits with me is a month is
Speaker 2: when I started to really begin to get feedback about
Speaker 2: the each of my books I had written. Because books
Speaker 2: so different than music. Yeah, if you put a song out,
Speaker 2: people can tell you five minutes later, yeah, love it,
Speaker 2: hate it. It made me feel this way if you
Speaker 2: put a book out, you just sit and wait, because
Speaker 2: it takes a while to Yeah, And it took me
Speaker 2: about a good month to act really start getting thoughtful
Speaker 2: and not I'm not saying nice feedback, but thoughtful feedback
Speaker 2: on people who had actually read it and had taken
Speaker 2: the time to give me feedback on what was good
Speaker 2: or what they felt hit them the hardest or Yeah.
Speaker 2: So now that you've had the book out of month,
Speaker 2: what are a couple of the stories that you that
Speaker 2: you didn't think would be like ones that people talked about,
Speaker 2: but now that they bring up to you.
Speaker 1: I think I think just an overall general like what
Speaker 1: I'm getting back, I mean, obviously people. I think people
Speaker 1: are really liking it. I think the thing that people
Speaker 1: are getting out of the book is for when they
Speaker 1: didn't know quite how wild I was, you know, and
Speaker 1: and the relationship that me and my wife had. There's
Speaker 1: a pretty funny story in there, say funny my wife.
Speaker 1: You know, she put up with a lot for me
Speaker 1: for years, and and there's a story that we talk
Speaker 1: about in there. One night I come home and I
Speaker 1: was pretty messed up, and she'd give me a pretty
Speaker 1: good sock in the eye, and I thought I broke
Speaker 1: my I brought my eye socket like an orbital.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And so people are like, I can't believe your wife
Speaker 1: did that. She's a boss, you know. And I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I was like I probably I deserved it.
Speaker 3: I know I did. But I think the thing that
Speaker 3: people are.
Speaker 1: Coming back and talking to me about I meet them
Speaker 1: at shows and stuff, and they're like, man, your parents,
Speaker 1: Like what an awesome set of parents that you have,
Speaker 1: you know, just to continually pray for you and love
Speaker 1: you through this mess that you were going through in
Speaker 1: your life, and just never give up. And so that
Speaker 1: was really the reason why I wanted to write the
Speaker 1: book is because I meet a lot of people before
Speaker 1: and after shows, a lot of grandparents and moms and
Speaker 1: dads who have sons and daughters that struggle and that
Speaker 1: are going through things in their life, and they're just like, man,
Speaker 1: I just don't know what to do. And I'm like,
Speaker 1: just keep praying for them, just keep trusting that God
Speaker 1: has a plan for their life. And you know, I
Speaker 1: was thirty three years old, grew up in church, Dad
Speaker 1: was a worship leader, and I was thirty three before
Speaker 1: I got it figured out, you know, And I said,
Speaker 1: but it took years of prayer for my family, and
Speaker 1: you know, they just never gave up. And so I
Speaker 1: think that's the takeaway that a lot of people are
Speaker 1: getting from it. And I'm just normal, dude, What did
Speaker 1: you think?
Speaker 2: I'm just so interested because you're at that time of
Speaker 2: your book being out, now that people have had time
Speaker 2: to read it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, what what did you think the.
Speaker 2: Through line people were going to take from it would be?
Speaker 2: And is it exactly what you thought because mine wasn't
Speaker 2: at all.
Speaker 1: I think, for the most part, I think they are.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think what I tried to lay out
Speaker 1: in the book was that I'm just normal, Like I'm
Speaker 1: a normal guy, you know, just because these things have
Speaker 1: happened to me in my life. And you know, I've
Speaker 1: been able to have success as a songwriter and a musician,
Speaker 1: Like it's only because I've been obedient to what you know,
Speaker 1: I feel like God has called me to do. Because
Speaker 1: you can look and reading the pages of the book.
Speaker 1: For years of my life, I struggled and I was
Speaker 1: in a rock band, and it wasn't because we weren't
Speaker 1: good enough. It was just because I feel like God
Speaker 1: kept me from those things in my life because he
Speaker 1: knew how I achieved it at a young age or
Speaker 1: maybe gotten those things that at a certain age I
Speaker 1: might not be here today.
Speaker 3: And yeah, I think that.
Speaker 1: I just think people are, you know, realizing that you
Speaker 1: you don't have to be perfect and have it all together.
Speaker 1: Like that was the reason for the Cross, and I'm
Speaker 1: hoping that's what they're getting from it, because that was
Speaker 1: why I wrote the book.
Speaker 2: You know, do you ever feel, man, I'm being possibly
Speaker 2: too vulnerable here. Yeah, maybe not too but a little
Speaker 2: uncomfortable were you had to even push yourself it.
Speaker 3: Was, Yeah, I mean it was definitely yeah. I mean
Speaker 3: I told it all.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: There were some stories in there that obviously I wasn't
Speaker 1: proud of that my parents didn't even know about. But
Speaker 1: I was like, if I'm gonna do it as, we'll
Speaker 1: talk about it all.
Speaker 2: Did you run? I was single when I wrote both
Speaker 2: of my books. Nothing Kid's book, As He Cares, but
Speaker 2: that it's not even adult book. That sounds weird, it's
Speaker 2: like porn. But I didn't have anybody that I had
Speaker 2: to like go through.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like my wife.
Speaker 2: Now, if I wrote a book and I was gonna
Speaker 2: write a lot of really personal stuff and I was
Speaker 2: going to include her, I would have like, I have
Speaker 2: a comedy special that we're almost done with, and she
Speaker 2: had a couple of parts in it, but she watched
Speaker 2: it to make sure that she was cool with. Yeah,
Speaker 2: not only what I was saying that affected her, but
Speaker 2: even her little parts. Did you have your wife read it?
Speaker 2: Your parents read it? Or was it like surprise?
Speaker 1: No? No, No, I actually had my wife my parents
Speaker 1: read the first draft. My wife actually wrote quite a
Speaker 1: bit in there as well, because there's I think maybe
Speaker 1: fourth or fifth chapter. She kind of comes in and
Speaker 1: starts starts telling her side of the stories that I'm telling,
Speaker 1: because she remembered them a whole lot better than I did,
Speaker 1: and so it was kind of that, here's my side
Speaker 1: of the story, and then Krystal would come in and
Speaker 1: be like, here's here's my side, here's what really happened.
Speaker 2: And so it's a great idea. Who had the idea actually.
Speaker 1: The guy that helped me write the book, Robert Nolan,
Speaker 1: thought it would be a really cool idea to get
Speaker 1: her perspective, and I think I think it was great,
Speaker 1: you know, and I think out of through the book,
Speaker 1: like I remember when we sat down and he read
Speaker 1: the book to us after it was completely finished, and
Speaker 1: we were just in tears. I was like, man, what
Speaker 1: a crazy story we have, you know, because I remember
Speaker 1: when I start to write in the book, thinking I
Speaker 1: don't have enough to write about.
Speaker 3: Nobody wants to hear me blab around share about my life.
Speaker 1: And then when we finished it, I was like, wow,
Speaker 1: you know, this is really really cool to see what
Speaker 1: God's done in our life, you know. And we come
Speaker 1: from completely different backgrounds, you know, and but it's it's
Speaker 1: worked out.
Speaker 2: So I remember, because we were with the Opery together
Speaker 2: and I'm this part's a little blurry, but I think
Speaker 2: I was on the TV show and I was like,
Speaker 2: setting you up from the prompter, right, Was I doing
Speaker 2: an intro for you from the prompter?
Speaker 3: You did?
Speaker 1: And then and then we came. I came by and
Speaker 1: spoke to you after my set for a second, so we.
Speaker 2: Talked side by side for a second.
Speaker 3: We did yeah, because I think Luke Colmbs was coming
Speaker 3: out after me.
Speaker 2: I know you were six six then, Like I purposely
Speaker 2: didn't stand up when you walked in. I didn't want
Speaker 2: to feel small, but I remember because I knew that
Speaker 2: you were from Arkansas, and I knew that you were
Speaker 2: I and we'll get into this. I know you were
Speaker 2: a Christian artist, but I didn't know your full story,
Speaker 2: that you hadn't always been and that and that there
Speaker 2: was a lot of struggle that got you to where
Speaker 2: you are now. And my producer was like, hey, like,
Speaker 2: do you know Zach. I was like, I don't know personally,
Speaker 2: but I know what he does. I like his music. Yeah,
Speaker 2: then now, but I didn't know your previous yeah at all.
Speaker 1: I short story was, you know, I didn't I didn't
Speaker 1: play music at all until college. I went to college,
Speaker 1: went to little school in northwest Arkansas.
Speaker 2: No, your family played music.
Speaker 3: My dad was My dad played music. He was a musician.
Speaker 2: And you know, you didn't play at all.
Speaker 1: I didn't play it all. There was a guitar in
Speaker 1: our house growing up as a kid. I walked past
Speaker 1: it every day. Picked up the basketball. That's that was
Speaker 1: my dream. I wanted to play in the NBA one day.
Speaker 1: And uh, when I got in trouble my my high
Speaker 1: school year and got in trouble for drug use my
Speaker 1: senior year of high.
Speaker 2: School and lost a couple of basketball scholarships, they expel
Speaker 2: you from school.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was kind of a it was. It was
Speaker 3: a little different than that it was. It was.
Speaker 1: It was a big ordeal. You know, there was I guess,
Speaker 1: I guess you could say because of me and around
Speaker 1: my area. That was when mandatory drug tests for athletes
Speaker 1: started happening the next the next year.
Speaker 3: But we were in our senior year. You know, ebody
Speaker 3: thought we would win this, you know, the state tournament.
Speaker 3: It was. It was a big deal.
Speaker 1: And uh, we were like eight and one going into
Speaker 1: Christmas break and I got in trouble. For me and
Speaker 1: three other guys that were like the standouts on the
Speaker 1: team got in trouble for drug use. But it was
Speaker 1: like it was it was more it was it was
Speaker 1: kind of one of those things where we were just
Speaker 1: being made an example of because there was a lot.
Speaker 3: More people that were doing it.
Speaker 2: That's what it feels like.
Speaker 1: And so we were kind of run through the office
Speaker 1: with the sheriff's deputies and everybody there, and you made
Speaker 1: an example. And and basically when it was all said
Speaker 1: and done, we were we were expelled from school. Law
Speaker 1: you reached out because they put our names in the
Speaker 1: paper and we were all miners and said hey, you
Speaker 1: know there's a lawsuit here. And we went back, had
Speaker 1: a big school board thing, and it when it was
Speaker 1: all said and done, it was like, I don't want
Speaker 1: to pursue this. We had schools from all the areas going, hey,
Speaker 1: if you'll move into our district, you can start on
Speaker 1: our basketball team and played for us, and me and
Speaker 1: my dad thought about it for a minute, tried to
Speaker 1: look for an apartment, didn't work out, and I was like, hey,
Speaker 1: they ended up saying, well, we're just going to suspend
Speaker 1: you guys for ten days from school. But I'd been
Speaker 1: kicked off the basketball team, and I was like, I
Speaker 1: don't want to go back, So I dropped out at
Speaker 1: Christmas break, got my ged and three or four days
Speaker 1: later and went to work for my dad who had
Speaker 1: a drywall business, and worked for him for about six months.
Speaker 1: And while I was working for him, I was playing
Speaker 1: in a men's like intermural league and I met a
Speaker 1: guy who said, Hey, I just graduated college a few
Speaker 1: years back from here, and I know the coach really well.
Speaker 3: If if you want to try out for the team,
Speaker 3: I can get you a try out. And he set
Speaker 3: it up and I went up to North Arkansas College
Speaker 3: in Harrison, Arkansas and tried out for the team and
Speaker 3: got a full scholarship, and the next year, pretty much
Speaker 3: right on track, still with you know, my life.
Speaker 1: Moved to play basketball in college. And the day before
Speaker 1: our senior or the day before my freshman season started,
Speaker 1: we were just having like a walk through practice and
Speaker 1: I did lace of my tennis shoes up. We were
Speaker 1: just running some plays and a buddy of mine jumped
Speaker 1: up to shoot a layup and I jumped up and
Speaker 1: blocked it. I landed on his foot and tore all
Speaker 1: the ligaments in my ankle and I was done, that
Speaker 1: landed on the foot and so I was I mean,
Speaker 1: it sounded like a gunshot and it looked like a
Speaker 1: softball had been cut in half and was on the
Speaker 1: side of my ankle. And and so that was the
Speaker 1: year that I didn't have anything going on, and my
Speaker 1: roommate had a acoustic guitar in our apartment and I
Speaker 1: sat on the edge of my bed with a poster
Speaker 1: on the wall had all the guitar chords on it
Speaker 1: and just taught myself.
Speaker 3: How to play.
Speaker 1: And next semester there was a creative writing class that
Speaker 1: was offered, so I took that, started writing school, though yeah,
Speaker 1: stayed in school, played basket playing again, like going yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: I played the next season it, so uh, basically I
Speaker 1: just had a lot of free time. And so while
Speaker 1: that was going on, I threw myself into music and
Speaker 1: I was like, man, this is this is kind of
Speaker 1: I think, this is what I want to do. And
Speaker 1: I was still partying quite a bit, and I thought, well,
Speaker 1: if I can get good enough at writing songs and
Speaker 1: playing music, I can be a rock star. So I
Speaker 1: played it, played the season, Uh, graduated there with an
Speaker 1: Associates of Arts, transferred back to Arkansas State to get
Speaker 1: a graphic design degree.
Speaker 2: What position did you play at six?
Speaker 3: Six? In college?
Speaker 1: I was I was a two to three guard because
Speaker 1: we ran an offense in high school where I shot
Speaker 1: threes at the top of the key.
Speaker 3: So I was a three point.
Speaker 2: Shooter, so six, So yeah, that's pretty intomazing.
Speaker 1: It was, it was, yeah, And so when I moved
Speaker 1: back to Jonesboro and went to college, I pursued music
Speaker 1: more than I was pursuing my art degree. And after
Speaker 1: you know, plenty of people when you should, you should
Speaker 1: go for this, and you know you're you're a much
Speaker 1: better musician than you are at school. You know, why
Speaker 1: don't you try to do this? And so I dropped
Speaker 1: out with thirty hours left for a bachelor's Yeah, so
Speaker 1: that's too. So I mean that's a that's a year.
Speaker 3: Right, another year.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and started playing music and writing songs, and by
Speaker 1: the into my twenties, I was in a rock band
Speaker 1: and we were turning all over the country and Europe,
Speaker 1: and I.
Speaker 2: Got a lot of questions. I got a lot of
Speaker 2: questions listening listening just to that. I got a lot
Speaker 2: of questions in general, but just to that, where'd you
Speaker 2: get the chord sheet because I bought the same one
Speaker 2: from Walmart if it's the same one.
Speaker 1: So at the time, it was a it was a
Speaker 1: poster that I bought. I bought it Hastings. It was
Speaker 1: a poster that was on the wall. And I had
Speaker 1: this mel Bay like old like these mel Bay blues
Speaker 1: books and stuff that would teach you how to play
Speaker 1: like blues chords and you know, twelve twelve bar blues
Speaker 1: things like that, and I would just sit there and
Speaker 1: flip through the pages and you know, do all of
Speaker 1: that and got good enough. I think the first like
Speaker 1: tab song I learned how to play was that Blackbird
Speaker 1: by the Beatles. It was just all fingerpicking.
Speaker 2: So hey, mine was like deep purple, Oh yeah, smoke
Speaker 2: on the water, Smoke on the water, like yours is
Speaker 2: like Eli.
Speaker 1: Well I did that, but I'm saying like the first
Speaker 1: real like challenging thing was like I want to learn
Speaker 1: how to play back, you know, Blackbird. But yeah, and
Speaker 1: then and then when I started trying to sing, it
Speaker 1: was like knocking on Heaven's Door was like the first
Speaker 1: song I could actually play and sing and.
Speaker 2: At the same time, because there is definitely a coordination
Speaker 2: and so.
Speaker 3: That gave me like I was like, oh I can,
Speaker 3: I can maybe do this.
Speaker 2: When did you do it for the first time for anybody?
Speaker 1: So after I moved back from college, or after I
Speaker 1: moved back from Harrison to Jonesboro, we had like a
Speaker 1: there's a couple of guys in my art class that
Speaker 1: were musicians, and there was like this little art show
Speaker 1: one night, and everybody was doing different things, and you know,
Speaker 1: Buddy played a couple of songs. It was the first
Speaker 1: time I'd ever played in front of people other than
Speaker 1: like in somebody's garage.
Speaker 2: How'd you feel about that, even the garage playing, the
Speaker 2: first time you played publicly, did it come to you
Speaker 2: somewhat natural? Somewhat Yeah, You're already a perform You're a
Speaker 2: basketball play right, so you're already a performer in a sense.
Speaker 2: People are watching what you do. So it wasn't like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, I gotta do it.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 1: It was a little nerve wrecking, and it still is
Speaker 1: to this day. I mean I still get a little
Speaker 1: little nervous every night I go on stage. But it
Speaker 1: was just it was one of those things where it
Speaker 1: was like I love doing it so much, you know,
Speaker 1: it was I loved getting feedback from something that I'd written.
Speaker 1: And then you know, over the years, you'd write a
Speaker 1: song and then you'd go to a party and somebody
Speaker 1: be like, hey, play that song you wrote like and
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, yeah, I actually like that. You
Speaker 1: want to hear it again. So that kind of kept
Speaker 1: me going for, you know, all those years. And then
Speaker 1: what'd your dad say about all this though?
Speaker 2: Because you're working for him, but you go back to
Speaker 2: school and then do you say I'm going to do music.
Speaker 2: That's a crazy coming from Arkansas. If you tell somebody
Speaker 2: you're gonna do a you have a creative job. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's not that they don't believe in you, it's just
Speaker 2: nobody else does that.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean dad was kind of like, you don't,
Speaker 1: you know, just pick up a guitar nineteen twenty years
Speaker 1: old to start playing music. It's kind of one of
Speaker 1: those things that you've been you know, And so I
Speaker 1: think he was kind of like, what's going on here?
Speaker 1: And when I started writing songs and started dem on
Speaker 1: out little songs and stuff when studios, he was kind
Speaker 1: of like, Oh, you're actually.
Speaker 3: Pretty good at this.
Speaker 2: So he could hear you actually being he could hear
Speaker 2: it talent and work, and he.
Speaker 1: Had some friends that he would send him to and
Speaker 1: be like, hey, what do you guys think about this?
Speaker 1: I think this is good, but I'm his dad, and
Speaker 1: so they were like, it's pretty good. So they were,
Speaker 1: you know, they were behind me for it.
Speaker 2: What did you do to make money? From twenty three
Speaker 2: to twenty eight twenty nine?
Speaker 1: So I worked full time for my dad who had
Speaker 1: a Drowtwall company, So he stayed on with him, hung
Speaker 1: and finished sheet rock, and then played the little side gigs,
Speaker 1: you know, at bars and whatever. And then when I
Speaker 1: was in my late twenties, I joined a band and
Speaker 1: we started playing you know Thursday, Friday, Saturday runs, you know.
Speaker 2: All over you know, Arkansas cover band. Original it was original.
Speaker 1: Yeah, It's called Zach Williams and the Reformation, and it
Speaker 1: was a Southern rock, classic rock kind of vibe. We
Speaker 1: were big Almann Brothers fans and Black Crows and stuff
Speaker 1: like that, and so it kind of had a lot
Speaker 1: of that feel. And I wrote two records and recorded
Speaker 1: two records with that band.
Speaker 2: And did you feel any traction?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: We I mean we had we played showcases here in
Speaker 1: Nashville and things like that. And we had signed a
Speaker 1: little booking deal with the company over in Europe and
Speaker 1: played too. We played in twenty ten for a month
Speaker 1: and then went back in twenty twelve and played We
Speaker 1: probably played twenty five shows a month on those two tours.
Speaker 2: And are you guys going so hard?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: And we were living hard, and I mean then that
Speaker 1: was the thing that was that was the thing. You know,
Speaker 1: my parents, you know, hated to see because they hadn't
Speaker 1: raised me lived that way. And you know, they were
Speaker 1: thrilled that I was playing music and so proud that
Speaker 1: I was writing songs. But I was living a lifestyle
Speaker 1: that I wouldn't raised to live. And I knew it,
Speaker 1: and I was you know, I felt a lot of
Speaker 1: guilt and shame for that, but I'd got myself into
Speaker 1: a place where I didn't know how to how to
Speaker 1: get out of it. You know, I was I wanted
Speaker 1: to be that guy and I'd created this persona that
Speaker 1: I was like, I got to live up to this.
Speaker 3: This is this is what you do when you're a
Speaker 3: rock star.
Speaker 2: Do you have any mentor It's a weird question to
Speaker 2: ask because I didn't, But did you have any mentors?
Speaker 2: At like twenty eight or so. When you're on the road,
Speaker 2: anybody could talk to that had done it before to
Speaker 2: give you advice.
Speaker 1: I mean, there were some older guys in our hometown
Speaker 1: that were musicians that would jump up on stage and
Speaker 1: play shows.
Speaker 2: But not like traveling touring. No, see, I think that's
Speaker 2: what I think. That's what sucks, you know, in a lot.
Speaker 3: Of times too.
Speaker 1: I mean I talked with my dad a lot, you know,
Speaker 1: he was he was, I mean still is like my
Speaker 1: best friend. We talked a lot on the job site.
Speaker 1: He knew what I was going through. It wasn't like
Speaker 1: I wasn't hiding it, you know.
Speaker 2: It's like, I guess my point with that is not
Speaker 2: that you didn't have mentors in your life, but professionally speaking,
Speaker 2: you were attempting to do something bigger than what anyone
Speaker 2: in your immediate.
Speaker 3: Life.
Speaker 1: No, right, yeah, I didn't. I didn't have anybody going, hey,
Speaker 1: I've I've been there, done that. You showed you this
Speaker 1: a little different. Yes, No, I had nothing.
Speaker 2: And if you're just doing that and you're touringru and
Speaker 2: again never toured on the level that you have, but
Speaker 2: even doing stand up, doing country touring Friday Saturdays, come
Speaker 2: back home, I after touring for I don't know, doing
Speaker 2: like forty thirty eight shows not I mean you're talking
Speaker 2: about over a third of weekends. You get so freaking
Speaker 2: bored on the road. I used to go, why would
Speaker 2: all these nineties rockers do all these drugs? Yeah? Like
Speaker 2: I would be like, why why would they do here?
Speaker 2: But you get on the road, there is If you
Speaker 2: don't keep something going, you will get run over because
Speaker 2: there is nowhere.
Speaker 3: And I think that's what happens with so many people,
Speaker 3: you know, and it's easy. It happens easily. Like you're
Speaker 3: you're bored. You party because you're bored, and.
Speaker 2: It's such a when you're playing, even if it's just
Speaker 2: twenty people, even if it's for nobody, you still feel
Speaker 2: like you're building something that's like the rush, the hour,
Speaker 2: that's the rush, and you have to meet that with nothing.
Speaker 3: And then you step off.
Speaker 1: Stage and you're just like empty, you're searching you You're
Speaker 1: like I want that again, and you don't get it
Speaker 1: again into you're on stage, or you go out and
Speaker 1: try to party and make it happen.
Speaker 2: And artificially make it.
Speaker 3: YEP.
Speaker 4: Let's take a quick pause for a message from our
Speaker 4: sponsor and we're back on the Bobby Cast.
Speaker 2: Have dealt with a lot of addiction in my family, abuse,
Speaker 2: lots of dead people.
Speaker 3: What for you?
Speaker 2: I got two when did you knows? Number one, when
Speaker 2: did you know you were just gonna do music? You're
Speaker 2: gonna quit your job and you're just gonna really give
Speaker 2: it all you have? Because that's vague? And then number two,
Speaker 2: when did you know that you were going way too
Speaker 2: hard and you had to make a change.
Speaker 3: So the one when I had to make a change
Speaker 3: came before when I knew I was going to do
Speaker 3: music for a living. So really yeah.
Speaker 1: So in twenty twelve, I was I was getting ready
Speaker 1: to leave for Europe for a month, and we had
Speaker 1: about twenty two shows maybe booked in Spain, and we
Speaker 1: were just focusing on Spain. And around that time, me
Speaker 1: and my wife had gotten invited to this church in
Speaker 1: her hometown, and uh, we had gone and started going
Speaker 1: to this church, and I'd been in I'd just been
Speaker 1: in a place already where I was like, man, I
Speaker 1: need to do something where I'm going to lose my family.
Speaker 1: I had three children, I had a little girl on
Speaker 1: the way, and I was getting ready to leave for
Speaker 1: Europe with this kind of like new like Okay, I
Speaker 1: want to change my life, Like something's got to give here.
Speaker 1: I'm tired of being this guy, tired of partying all
Speaker 1: the time. And I left to go on that trip,
Speaker 1: and my wife basically had come to me and was like, Hey,
Speaker 1: if if you can't make some changes for your family,
Speaker 1: we're not sticking around anymore. I'm not going to watch this.
Speaker 1: You're you're gonna end up killing yourself one day.
Speaker 2: Were the changes the traveling, the touring, or what you
Speaker 2: were doing while you're traveling.
Speaker 1: It was what I was doing while I was traveling,
Speaker 1: while I was touring, It was bringing it home with me.
Speaker 1: It was just it was just the lifestyle that I
Speaker 1: was living, and we were we were all sick of it.
Speaker 1: I was sick of it, but I didn't know how
Speaker 1: to get out of it. And I knew the only
Speaker 1: way to get out of it would be to leave
Speaker 1: the band and just walk away from it. And so
Speaker 1: I literally left to go on that tour. And my
Speaker 1: wife tells me this, and I was like just kind
Speaker 1: of one of those like foxhole prayers, you know. I
Speaker 1: was like, God, if you're real who you say you are.
Speaker 3: Prove it. And I didn't have any doubt that he
Speaker 3: was real because I'd grown up at church. I never
Speaker 3: doubted that. But I was just like, prove it.
Speaker 1: If you can prove it and it's clear, I'll walk away. Well,
Speaker 1: we were two weeks into that tour. We've been partying
Speaker 1: every night, and we were driving across Spain one day
Speaker 1: on like an eight hour bus ride, and we were
Speaker 1: in a sprinter van and I was listening to John
Speaker 1: Mayer's Born and Raised album had just come out summer
Speaker 1: of twenty twelve, and I was reading Greg Almond's autobiography
Speaker 1: Across the Bear, and I was just like reading this
Speaker 1: musician that's struggling with his identity and success and lifestyle.
Speaker 1: And I was listening to John Mayer's record, and I
Speaker 1: was staring out the bus window and my band guys
Speaker 1: were all sleeping, and I took my headphones off and
Speaker 1: closed my book. I was looking out in the window
Speaker 1: the buses we were driving on the highway, and this
Speaker 1: guy driving our bus was scanning radio stations up in
Speaker 1: the front, and out of nowhere, it stops on the station.
Speaker 1: I hear this, this Christian song by a band called
Speaker 1: Big Daddy, weave. The song was called Redeemed, and I
Speaker 1: listened to these lyrics over and over, and I was like,
Speaker 1: what in the world. And I go back to my
Speaker 1: hotel look up these lyrics, and while I was listening
Speaker 1: to the lyrics, I was just like, hmm, that wasn't
Speaker 1: a coincidence, you know. And I was like, and I
Speaker 1: just I realized in that moment that I had missed
Speaker 1: this thing about God that I'd always gotten wrong. I
Speaker 1: just thought, growing up as a kid in church, he
Speaker 1: was just sitting on his throne with his arms crossed,
Speaker 1: shaking his head, and everything I did wrong all the time,
Speaker 1: and I didn't realize how much, you know, how much
Speaker 1: God loved me, and that he saw me in a
Speaker 1: way I wouldn't ever be able to see myself. And
Speaker 1: I called Chris, so I said I'm done. I'm coming home.
Speaker 1: I said, just don't tell anybody else. I got another
Speaker 1: couple of weeks over here when we get home, and
Speaker 1: I said, I'll I'm gonna I'm done. And so I
Speaker 1: came finished that run, came home from Europe and canceled
Speaker 1: my shows, quit my band Christal.
Speaker 2: What did they say?
Speaker 1: They were not happy? It was not good I mean
Speaker 1: because we were, you know, we were. We were as
Speaker 1: good as anybody at that time. We were doing shows
Speaker 1: of BlackBerry smoking bands like that, and it was like
Speaker 1: we could have been easily about to sign a record deal,
Speaker 1: and but I was afraid if I didn't get out
Speaker 1: of that band.
Speaker 3: I was not gonna make it.
Speaker 1: And so I came home June tenth, twenty twelve. My
Speaker 1: wife was getting our kids ready for school. When the
Speaker 1: house was clear, everybody was gone, I walked into my closet,
Speaker 1: got the shoes up, cleared them out of the floor,
Speaker 1: got on my hands and knees, and just said, God,
Speaker 1: can you save me? And I said, I'm sick and
Speaker 1: tired of being this guy. I don't want to do
Speaker 1: this anymore. I don't care if I play music every again.
Speaker 1: I just want to be a good husband, good father,
Speaker 1: if you can use me, use me. And man, it
Speaker 1: was like this weight just instantly lifted, and I was
Speaker 1: like and I felt like God was just kind of
Speaker 1: in the closet with me, just saying and welcome home.
Speaker 3: And so that was that was where I stopped.
Speaker 1: And so we found a church, started going to this
Speaker 1: church in her hometown, and six months into going to church. There,
Speaker 1: the worship pastor asked me to lead a song and
Speaker 1: I sing Redeem for the first time. And I still
Speaker 1: on stage that first time. Yeah, still on stage that
Speaker 1: time at church for the first time, singing that song.
Speaker 1: And it was the first time that I ever felt
Speaker 1: comfortable on stage in my own skin. There was no performance,
Speaker 1: there was no look at me, Hey, I can sing good,
Speaker 1: look at all the stuff I can do. It was
Speaker 1: just this emotional thing that was attached to and I
Speaker 1: come home until Christ I said, I think this is
Speaker 1: what I'm supposed to be doing. And within the year,
Speaker 1: the church asked me to come to work for him
Speaker 1: part time and help them launch a campus and become
Speaker 1: a worship leader. And so I started leading worship at church,
Speaker 1: and I started writing songs, and I was writing Christian
Speaker 1: music like new things, but I was still writing them
Speaker 1: in kind of my southern country kind of way, and
Speaker 1: I was testing them out at church on people woman
Speaker 1: playing them, and I was hearing stories from everybody, and
Speaker 1: you know, hearing their stories and sharing my stories. And
Speaker 1: so I was writing all these kind of like songs
Speaker 1: coming out of these places of my life. And I
Speaker 1: got invited to Nashville by by a guy named Jonathan
Speaker 1: Smith who's a producer here in town and a songwriter.
Speaker 1: And he was actually from my hometown.
Speaker 2: How did he find you? How did he know who
Speaker 2: you were?
Speaker 1: And so they come over to visit for Christmas in
Speaker 1: twenty fifteen and I was singing work, I was singing,
Speaker 1: I was leading a Christmas service.
Speaker 2: They came to visit you or the church.
Speaker 1: They came to visit the church because they were Him
Speaker 1: and his wife were both from Jonesboro. Her dad was
Speaker 1: a deacon at the church. They were just coming to
Speaker 1: visit family. They decided to come to the service. They
Speaker 1: see this big, tall guy on stage singing and they're like,
Speaker 1: who's that guy? We don't know who that guy is.
Speaker 1: Jonathan takes me to coffee. He's like, what's your story.
Speaker 1: He's like, you don't sing like that without a story.
Speaker 1: I tell him my story. He says, well, come over,
Speaker 1: won't we come to won't you come to Nashville and
Speaker 1: write some music? And so a few months later I
Speaker 1: started coming over and staying the weekend with him and
Speaker 1: we would write songs. And out of that, out of
Speaker 1: that six month time period, we wrote chain Breaker and
Speaker 1: here's a Liar and all these songs that became my
Speaker 1: first album. And and while all that was going on,
Speaker 1: I was still working at the church and the record
Speaker 1: label here in town. Sony Provident heard the demo for
Speaker 1: chain Breaker and called me and offered me a record
Speaker 1: deal off of that demo.
Speaker 2: What do you mean they heard it?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 2: How did they get it? Who?
Speaker 1: So I was coming over all the time and they
Speaker 1: were seeing me in the offices, the studios were there
Speaker 1: that we were writing in, and eventually somebody's like, who's
Speaker 1: the Who's the tall guy that's coming over here all
Speaker 1: the time that's writing with you? And he's like, oh
Speaker 1: this you know this guy Namsact that I'm writing with.
Speaker 1: He's the worst leader in Arkansas. You know, just been
Speaker 1: writing some music and the a our guy at the label,
Speaker 1: was like, let me hear some of the songs. So
Speaker 1: he sends them some songs and they flip out over
Speaker 1: him and play him for the whole staff. And when
Speaker 1: the president of the label heard it, they called me
Speaker 1: on on a Wednesday, I was getting ready to lead
Speaker 1: a college worship service at church and called me in
Speaker 1: said hey, we want to offer your record deal. I
Speaker 1: was thirty eight years old, been playing music for twenty
Speaker 1: years of my life, trying trying to kick the door
Speaker 1: in to get a record deal, and then I finally
Speaker 1: had stopped trying to get it and I was just doing.
Speaker 3: What I felt like I was supposed to be doing.
Speaker 2: That's when it came.
Speaker 3: And then it falls in my lap.
Speaker 1: And I'm still working part time at the church, still
Speaker 1: hearing people talk about how great these songs are, and
Speaker 1: I'm kind of in the back of my mind when
Speaker 1: I don't know if I can go out and do
Speaker 1: this again, Like, I don't know if I want to
Speaker 1: do this.
Speaker 3: I just want to be a songwriter.
Speaker 1: And so I have a meeting and they're like, man, like,
Speaker 1: nobody's going to sing these songs the way that you
Speaker 1: sing them, So you should probably think about this.
Speaker 2: I don't want to lose my train of thought. But
Speaker 2: were you thinking you couldn't do it because or you
Speaker 2: shouldn't do it because of your past experience of doing it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was just thinking I didn't know if I
Speaker 1: wanted to go back and get on the road and tour. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I just didn't I didn't know if I Yeah,
Speaker 1: And so yeah, after talk talking about it for a
Speaker 1: while and meeting with different people in Nashville, and I
Speaker 1: signed my record deal and I was still working at
Speaker 1: the church, living in Arkansas, and one of my first
Speaker 1: big tours was Chris Tomlin's worship Night in America and
Speaker 1: he put me out singing chain Breaker every night and
Speaker 1: we were I mean, it was awesome, and I was like,
Speaker 1: I might be able to do this and make a living.
Speaker 1: And I remember sitting in Florida at a radio programmers
Speaker 1: conference with my booking agent, and I was still living
Speaker 1: in Arkansas, was on that tour, and I said, man,
Speaker 1: I just want to be able to make enough money
Speaker 1: to live. Can you guys figure that out? Help me
Speaker 1: do that. If we can do that, I'm happy. And
Speaker 1: went long after that church I was working at, let
Speaker 1: me play a concert. They sent me away with a
Speaker 1: big chunk of money to helped me get insurance for
Speaker 1: a year and pay my rent, and I left out
Speaker 1: and went on tour and it's.
Speaker 3: Been ever since.
Speaker 2: How you like Chris Tomlin?
Speaker 3: He's great. He was a good dude.
Speaker 2: He's like a good dude, right, yeah, he is. He's
Speaker 2: just expectant and I know Chris now, but I just
Speaker 2: expected him and I mean this in the most complimentary way,
Speaker 2: to be so much better than he is, not that
Speaker 2: he's going to be a better dude, but I you know,
Speaker 2: it's Chris Tomlin. You think he was like better than you, yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, or that you know, it's like if you're
Speaker 2: talking to him, are you talking to Jesus?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like old child.
Speaker 2: Yeahh But he's like like he's just a solid guy. Yeah,
Speaker 2: just a solid guy.
Speaker 3: He's a good dude.
Speaker 2: How are those crowds?
Speaker 3: Fourteen fifteen?
Speaker 1: It was like, you know, you get out, you know,
Speaker 1: most stuff ever played for my life was maybe five
Speaker 1: six hundred people at a at a club, and then
Speaker 1: you're standing on stage playing you know, a song that
Speaker 1: everybody is singing back to you, and it's like, what
Speaker 1: is going on?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 1: I was I was traveling at that time when Schaane
Speaker 1: Breaker went number one. I was on a tour singing
Speaker 1: two songs and I was an acoustic and that was
Speaker 1: all I was doing. And and that song went number one,
Speaker 1: and then my second song went number one, and and
Speaker 1: uh it was It's pretty surreal because I was like, man,
Speaker 1: you know, people hear of you for the first time,
Speaker 1: and they think you're like overnight success and they just
Speaker 1: don't have any idea of the twenty year grind that
Speaker 1: it's taken and what you've gone through. And so that
Speaker 1: was a big reason too for writing this book. I
Speaker 1: just wanted people to have a little bit of a backstory,
Speaker 1: to know why I write what I write, why I'm
Speaker 1: the guy that I am now versus where I was
Speaker 1: in my past, like, and so it's pretty pretty crazy.
Speaker 2: I feel like the book, even your music, I mean,
Speaker 2: I think it's generally pretty personal. I think a lot
Speaker 2: of the stuff that you just been pretty personal. Why
Speaker 2: looking for You? Why you said that was the most
Speaker 2: personal song that you have on this last record, on.
Speaker 3: This last record, it is?
Speaker 1: It's this last record is probably one of my It's
Speaker 1: maybe my favorite record I've ever been a part of writing.
Speaker 3: You have to say that, yeah, but I mean that.
Speaker 1: I mean, and it's not been my most successful It's
Speaker 1: it's honestly, you know, it's not been as successful as
Speaker 1: chain Breaker and Rescue Story.
Speaker 2: That's okay, I mean, I feel like you have. But
Speaker 2: you have to feel like your last record is your
Speaker 2: favorite because you wrote it the most recent it, Like,
Speaker 2: is that a better representation of who you are now?
Speaker 3: I did, but I think I wrote it this time.
Speaker 1: I just wrote the songs I wanted to write, and
Speaker 1: I said what I wanted to say, and I produced
Speaker 1: them the way I wanted to produce them. I wasn't
Speaker 1: trying to make them feel like they had to fit
Speaker 1: a format for radio or anything, just like, I want
Speaker 1: this to be what I want it to be.
Speaker 3: And so.
Speaker 1: But but looking for You is that that song for
Speaker 1: me that's like it just kind of says it. It's
Speaker 1: it's you know it it tells the story of the
Speaker 1: road that I've been on for so many years and
Speaker 1: in my past and what I've gone through, and you know,
Speaker 1: I grew up and I kind of said it will
Speaker 1: to go. You know, I grew up every night playing
Speaker 1: music on stages when I was in the band, smoky
Speaker 1: bars and nightclubs, and it was great for two or
Speaker 1: three hours while you're on stage, and then you'd step
Speaker 1: off and you'd be empty, and you know, drugs, alcohol, relationships,
Speaker 1: chasing fortune, famous all that, like what can make that better?
Speaker 1: What can make me feel better? And and it did
Speaker 1: for a season. You know, it was like and then
Speaker 1: that goes away, and and my dad when I was
Speaker 1: working for him on the construction site. We would sit
Speaker 1: down on these job sites and he would it would
Speaker 1: always tell me, he would say, hey, I don't I
Speaker 1: don't have an answer for you other than Jesus, like
Speaker 1: you need to get your life together. And I didn't
Speaker 1: want to hear it at the time, but I knew
Speaker 1: he was telling the truth. And I used to hear
Speaker 1: this saying as a kid, it's the first place you
Speaker 1: find something is always the last place you look for it.
Speaker 1: And I was like, I've tried everything else, but Jesus
Speaker 1: might as well give it a shot. And and it
Speaker 1: was like when I got in that place in my
Speaker 1: life and I, you know, I was like, God, can
Speaker 1: you help me out? He was there and I realized
Speaker 1: all my life I've been looking for him, like all
Speaker 1: those things that I've been trying to find, to feel
Speaker 1: that hole that was actually in search of him.
Speaker 2: And so.
Speaker 3: Yeah, when I played that song for.
Speaker 2: Dolly, she was like, I was going there next, Yeah, dude,
Speaker 2: she was.
Speaker 1: We were in Dollywood working on her Christmas Christmas thing,
Speaker 1: and she asked me what I was working on, and
Speaker 1: I told her that I told her this record, and
Speaker 1: I said, I actually got the title from it from
Speaker 1: this song called looking for You. I said, there's a
Speaker 1: lyric that says, down one hundred highways of empty pursuit
Speaker 1: and a thousand foolish things I went through. Didn't know
Speaker 1: it back then, but now I do. I was looking
Speaker 1: for You and she's like playing the song, and so
Speaker 1: I play it for and she's.
Speaker 2: I mean, is there a little bit of pressure again?
Speaker 2: You know, you're good? There was, but it's Dolly.
Speaker 1: It was Dolly, but she was Dolly has a way
Speaker 1: of like making you feel like you're the only person
Speaker 1: in the room. And she she is so down to
Speaker 1: earth and so humble and just so so much fun.
Speaker 1: She's like the I've told people she's like the the
Speaker 1: fun ant at Christmas that everybody wants to see and
Speaker 1: hang out with.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: It's like she's very warm and you always feel valued.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And just to even make it even better, that
Speaker 1: day while all this was going on, were I was
Speaker 1: on a keto diet. A couple of her guys on
Speaker 1: crew were on a keto die and she's like, she's like,
Speaker 1: you know what we do? She was like, it's really good.
Speaker 1: She's like, they got these poor crowns here at Dollywood.
Speaker 1: She was like, and I make this blue cheese dip
Speaker 1: and we eat poor crands and blue cheese when.
Speaker 3: We're on Keto.
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh yeah, and she's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna send somebody out to get the stuff and
Speaker 1: i'll make it for you. So she sends somebody out
Speaker 1: to get all this stuff and we're sitting there eating
Speaker 1: poor grinds and blue cheese dip that she just made,
Speaker 1: and and I'm about to play my song. And so
Speaker 1: I played the song and she's like coming along harmony
Speaker 1: parts and I was like, oh, that's really cool. And
Speaker 1: then as the song's finished, and she's like wiping tears
Speaker 1: out of her eyes and she slaps me on the
Speaker 1: leg and she's like, Zacht. She said, that's beautiful. She
Speaker 1: said why didn't you ask me to sing on that one?
Speaker 1: And I was like, I didn't know if you'd want to,
Speaker 1: and she was like, well, I thought we did pretty
Speaker 1: good on the first one. And I was like, you're right,
Speaker 1: and I still thought she was joking. And so a
Speaker 1: year later, we were trying to decide what we wanted
Speaker 1: to do as a you know, a last single on
Speaker 1: this record, and I said well, Dollie did say she
Speaker 1: would sing on it, and I didn't know if she
Speaker 1: really would.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a weird thing to follow through. Yeah, like
Speaker 2: follow up on it because you're like, yeah, I didn't
Speaker 2: know said but again it's you're in like the moment.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I did.
Speaker 1: We we we reached out to her on like a
Speaker 1: Thursday Friday. She said, yeah, send it over Monday. She
Speaker 1: sent it back and it was done with her vocals,
Speaker 1: like over the weekends.
Speaker 3: She did it.
Speaker 2: What's really cool, first of all is that and that
Speaker 2: you have and have have had a relationship with Dollie.
Speaker 2: But secondly, you've want a Grammy with Dolly? Yeah, like
Speaker 2: that kind of trumps everybody that kind of Trump's stories
Speaker 2: of like doing charity work with Dollar, Like you want
Speaker 2: a Grammy? Like that's awesome.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's man, I know it was.
Speaker 2: Does the Grammy have your names on it?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: So you on your Grammy. It's like in the car.
Speaker 2: It has pretty cool man.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: What was wild though, is that day you know that
Speaker 1: we that was nearing COVID. So the Grammys were a
Speaker 1: lot different that year, and we had a little Grammy
Speaker 1: party at my house and we were supposed to supposed
Speaker 1: to have like found out like late in the afternoon
Speaker 1: when the when it was going to be announced, and
Speaker 1: I had all these people coming over to my house
Speaker 1: and we were all gonna be sitting there watching it
Speaker 1: at the same time. And then they were like, no,
Speaker 1: we're gonna announce it early. So they were going to
Speaker 1: announce mind like noon.
Speaker 3: And I was like, oh, man, if we lose this,
Speaker 3: this party's gonna say like this is good to be bad.
Speaker 3: All these people showing up.
Speaker 1: And when they announced it, they announced Casey Bethard's name first,
Speaker 1: and I thought, oh, we freaking lost.
Speaker 3: And now I was like, wait a minute. He wrote
Speaker 3: the song with me.
Speaker 1: I was like, we won, like and it was just
Speaker 1: like and so I call Casey, Me and Jonathan call
Speaker 1: Casey and he's like he's in Florida on the beach
Speaker 1: making a sandwich in his beach house and I'm like, hey, dude,
Speaker 1: we just want to Grammy and he was like, are
Speaker 1: you kidding me? He wasn't even watching it. I was
Speaker 1: just like, yeah, that's that sounds a bit like him. Dang,
Speaker 1: that's it was really cool.
Speaker 2: It's really cool. It's it's super cool that again, I
Speaker 2: would just be my neurosis would go. I know Dolly
Speaker 2: said that, but did she really mean it? That's exactly
Speaker 2: what I don't want to like bother her because I
Speaker 2: already have a good relationship.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's been so she's been so sweet to us,
Speaker 1: like we we go down and rehearsing her place down
Speaker 1: in Lavern, Like it's just she's been like, hey, if
Speaker 1: you guys want to come down and use it for rehearsals, Like,
Speaker 1: are you serious?
Speaker 2: She's like yeah, wow, she just sent So I have
Speaker 2: the these little funkos, which I've only been introduced lately
Speaker 2: to the funko culture. Are you familiar with the funko?
Speaker 2: I don't know what that is, Mike, will you hand
Speaker 2: me the Dollie funk so I have? Again, I didn't
Speaker 2: know what they were, but that as like something my
Speaker 2: kids might probably athletes have them, celebrities have them. And
Speaker 2: so I bought a few Dolli ones and so this
Speaker 2: is a Dolly one and I sent them over to
Speaker 2: her and she signed them for me, and then I
Speaker 2: auction them off for a Saint Joy. I've yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: but they don't come signed, and Dollie doesn't have any
Speaker 2: sign you can get. But I just sent him over
Speaker 2: and she sent him back all signed. I mean, it
Speaker 2: was like, and I don't want to ask her to
Speaker 2: do anything, but I know that if it happens to
Speaker 2: do with something like nice or good, she's gonna do it.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, But it's still like, I don't want to
Speaker 2: bother her, but she's yeah, No, she's awesome. She's on
Speaker 2: my comedy special.
Speaker 3: I mean, that's great.
Speaker 2: It's crazy.
Speaker 1: She was telling me she's got a she was telling
Speaker 1: me she's got a Broadway musical coming out in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty five.
Speaker 2: I'm sure to be a massive success and it deserves
Speaker 2: to be.
Speaker 5: Yeah, the Bobby Cast will be right back. This is
Speaker 5: the Bobby Cast.
Speaker 2: You have a bunch of land.
Speaker 3: We've got almost twenty five acres.
Speaker 2: What do you do with it? And is it all
Speaker 2: liveable or is it some of it just like no,
Speaker 2: So I.
Speaker 1: Guess from the road to our house is about a
Speaker 1: quarter mile, and then from our house to the back
Speaker 1: of the property is about a quarter mile. And coming
Speaker 1: up the road, it's it's been cleared out and it looks,
Speaker 1: you know, it looks nice coming up and then there's
Speaker 1: about five acres around the.
Speaker 2: House that we have woods woods around, and then behind
Speaker 2: it is it's thick.
Speaker 1: I had a guy come in with the excavator and
Speaker 1: just cut me a trail all the way around where
Speaker 1: we could ride side by side of the four wheaders
Speaker 1: and then our property backs up to this creek that
Speaker 1: is great for like small mouth bass fishing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you stalked upon No, it's.
Speaker 1: It's it's like literally, it's it's wide enough. It looks
Speaker 1: like a river where we're at, so you can get
Speaker 1: into kayak and fish it, or you can just go
Speaker 1: down and fish. It's like, what's this one horse? It's
Speaker 1: the creek's called Rutherford Creek, and I'm not sure what
Speaker 1: it runs off of.
Speaker 2: You don't have to stock it because it's just no
Speaker 2: and it I mean it runs for miles through So
Speaker 2: that's basically a river.
Speaker 3: No, it's it's basically like a river, but they call
Speaker 3: it Rutherford Creek.
Speaker 2: How old your oldest kid?
Speaker 1: Our oldest is twenty five, twenty fourteen and eleven. They
Speaker 1: read the book, I don't know if they've read it
Speaker 1: or not.
Speaker 3: They lived it. Yeah, yeah, I mean my I think
Speaker 3: my youngest.
Speaker 1: I don't know if my wife has or not, but
Speaker 1: we we've talked about playing the audio book for him,
Speaker 1: just to let them know we haven't kept secrets. I mean,
Speaker 1: our kids know our stories in our lives. So but
Speaker 1: the biggest reason why I wanted because I almost didn't
Speaker 1: do the audio version.
Speaker 3: I was just so nervous about it. You know, I'm like,
Speaker 3: I don't like.
Speaker 1: I'm for one, I don't like to read a lot
Speaker 1: unless it's like an article that I'm interested in. Books
Speaker 1: typically not, I just don't finish them, do to see
Speaker 1: the movie. And then I'm like, reading out loud is
Speaker 1: a totally different thing than reading to yourself. And I
Speaker 1: was just like, man, I don't want to do this,
Speaker 1: and I have myself talked out of it. And then
Speaker 1: and my wife talked and I was like, you know,
Speaker 1: when I'm dead and gone, this will live forever and
Speaker 1: my children and their grandchildren can hear my voice tell
Speaker 1: my story. So me and my wife both did the
Speaker 1: reading of it.
Speaker 3: I good for you. It was really cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm glad. It's hard.
Speaker 3: It's tough, man.
Speaker 1: I mean, you have to get this stumbled on words
Speaker 1: that you say every day, and you're just like, why
Speaker 1: can't I say this right now?
Speaker 3: It's the weirdest thing.
Speaker 2: And also it's like sometimes you'll say a word so
Speaker 2: much and like if you just said the word blooney
Speaker 2: over and over again, then blowney doesn't feel like a
Speaker 2: real word. You like baloonney. But then you come with
Speaker 2: all the words while you're reading a book and no
Speaker 2: word feels real because you've just been reading. And I
Speaker 2: talked for a living, and reading the book was the
Speaker 2: weirdest thing because you're also trying to read it like
Speaker 2: a human.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I did it every the two nights, the two
Speaker 3: days that I read. I would set up every night
Speaker 3: and read it to my wife in bed, the chapters
Speaker 3: that I was going to read the next day, just
Speaker 3: so I would kind of have it fresh.
Speaker 1: Then I would go in and do it, and it
Speaker 1: just felt so weird. And then you got this lady
Speaker 1: in your ear going try it this way read it, and.
Speaker 2: They would do that to me. I'll be like, but
Speaker 2: I don't say it like that.
Speaker 1: There's one part of the book that I tell a
Speaker 1: story about me and my dad and it was a
Speaker 1: lunch break and I was eating the can of Viiny
Speaker 1: sausages and I call him VIENI. A lot of people
Speaker 1: say Vienna, and the lady stops me and she's like, hey,
Speaker 1: it's Vienna, and I'm like, not where I was, not
Speaker 1: where I come from. I was like, I call it Vienie.
Speaker 1: I was like, and I'm going to leave it that
Speaker 1: way in the book. And so everybody gives no hard time,
Speaker 1: but but it was it was a yeah, that's good.
Speaker 2: What about the kid's book? A little more like Jesus?
Speaker 3: So that's that's a that's a book based off of
Speaker 3: the Fruits of the Spirit. It's a book that kind
Speaker 3: of kind of came out of my song less like Me.
Speaker 3: I have a song called uh and that's it's a
Speaker 3: little more log Jesus. That's a little less like Me.
Speaker 1: And so this idea for a children's book kind of
Speaker 1: came up because I just remember being, you know, in
Speaker 1: church as a kid and and reading the Fruits of
Speaker 1: the Spirit. So it was kind of one of those
Speaker 1: little I think it's from like maybe from four to
Speaker 1: eight year olds.
Speaker 2: Did you have to look at a bunch of illustrators
Speaker 2: and pick the and and like to pick the style.
Speaker 3: The Yeah, we went through all of that went through.
Speaker 1: I had I pulled a bunch of books from like
Speaker 1: the books that we had at home from our kids
Speaker 1: that I always remembered like reading them to my kids,
Speaker 1: And I sent the screenshots of them in and who
Speaker 1: the illustrators were, and then they they were like, Okay,
Speaker 1: here's some that kind of resemble that, or here's some
Speaker 1: people that we work with. What do you think And
Speaker 1: we near down like four people before we went and
Speaker 1: found them on we like And then that to me
Speaker 1: was kind of cool to'll seend myself as the cartoons.
Speaker 2: Did you have any notes on yourself?
Speaker 3: No, I just I just sent a couple of pictures
Speaker 3: over and they came up with that.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I feel like they always air on the
Speaker 2: positives I don't have. I don't have your whole books.
Speaker 2: I don't know what you look like all your pictures.
Speaker 2: But for me, I feel like they gave me some liberty,
Speaker 2: some like yeah nice fun they made they feel good,
Speaker 2: Yeah liberty. I feel like that's generally what they do.
Speaker 2: They don't want to make you feel worse about yourself.
Speaker 3: Now they did a good job. I feel good about it.
Speaker 2: So four to eight is where you put this? I
Speaker 2: don't I don't this book. It's not even the real book.
Speaker 2: I'm over here.
Speaker 3: Just guessing it's not a real book. That's just the cover.
Speaker 3: You have.
Speaker 2: You seen the fully finished, so you don't even have it.
Speaker 1: No, I don't even have it. Like all we have
Speaker 1: right now is the cover. I've seen the pages. I've
Speaker 1: seen the pages, you know, in like PDF form. But
Speaker 1: the book comes out the end of August. Hop on
Speaker 1: board for a rolic in journey of sharing and love.
Speaker 2: We're all called to be more like Jesus, but it
Speaker 2: can be hard to understand exactly what that means. In
Speaker 2: this picture book from acclaimed Christian music artist Zach Williams,
Speaker 2: kids joined an exciting bus trip to discover the fruits
Speaker 2: of the spirit and learn how showing a little more love, patience, kindness, gentleness, faithfulness,
Speaker 2: and self control can make a big difference for those
Speaker 2: around them and help them live a little more like Jesus.
Speaker 2: With rhymes, It's cool, it turned it turned it really good.
Speaker 3: I'm proud of it.
Speaker 2: I had goals in making mine rymen. I quit, I
Speaker 2: quit the Rymen, and I was like, I stopped it.
Speaker 2: With rhyming text based on Zach's hit song A Little
Speaker 2: Less Like Me and vibrant, engaging illustrations, young readers will
Speaker 2: be inspired to connect deeper with God and begin to
Speaker 2: grow into the person God created them to be. I'm
Speaker 2: excited for the first time you see the full book together.
Speaker 2: It's a really it'd be a really cool moment.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 2: Just getting this is super cool.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I got it and my manager hands it to
Speaker 1: me and I started flipping through it and I was like, dude,
Speaker 1: they messed this up. This is not my book. And
Speaker 1: he said, oh, no, that's not your book. He's like,
Speaker 1: I just they just put it on a thing so
Speaker 1: you can see what it looks like.
Speaker 3: Dude, they printed the wrong like they printed it wrong.
Speaker 2: Listen. I'm a big fan. I was a big fan
Speaker 2: of just your music before I even knew your story.
Speaker 2: You know, I think, how long have you lived here
Speaker 2: now in Nashville.
Speaker 3: Oh, we move tier in two thousand and seventeen, so a.
Speaker 2: Year are we four?
Speaker 3: War?
Speaker 2: So?
Speaker 3: Like what years?
Speaker 2: Even?
Speaker 3: Six?
Speaker 2: Seven years?
Speaker 3: Seven years? Yeah?
Speaker 2: You get here. This is my short version of living
Speaker 2: in Nashville. You get here and you're like, wow, this
Speaker 2: is Nashville. Our dreams are made. And then you get
Speaker 2: really jaded, and then you start to realize, why am
Speaker 2: I letting myself be so jaded on stuff. And I'm
Speaker 2: getting to the point now where I'm reaching that I
Speaker 2: don't need me to be that jaded on stuff anymore.
Speaker 2: What I care about I care about, and what I don't,
Speaker 2: I just kind of let it do its thing. And
Speaker 2: so the version of your story that I knew was
Speaker 2: I just knew your music and your current story. Yeah,
Speaker 2: because there's a there's a million stories, and I just
Speaker 2: hadn't got into yours. But then when I started reading
Speaker 2: up on you and learning, and man, it's so admirable
Speaker 2: the decisions that you were forced to make to have
Speaker 2: a quality life for you and your family then that
Speaker 2: you made because I say, Forrest, it's like, you don't
Speaker 2: have to actually do it, but if you don't, things
Speaker 2: tend to not enda.
Speaker 3: I knew we were always headed in if I had
Speaker 3: and that was my that was kind of my It
Speaker 3: was tough, trust me, man.
Speaker 1: It was splitting up that band was was awful. Like
Speaker 1: I just you know, you've been in a band with
Speaker 1: five guys for several years. It was like a it
Speaker 1: was like a divorce.
Speaker 2: They still resent you or do they understand?
Speaker 3: I think they are both. I think they there's a
Speaker 3: little of both.
Speaker 1: I think they understand obviously when I had to make
Speaker 1: those decisions, we're all in a different place in our
Speaker 1: lives now.
Speaker 3: I think it still hurts. I mean, it's still it
Speaker 3: still hurts me sometimes to think about.
Speaker 2: You know, you just understand why they can be upset though, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely, But I mean at the time I walked
Speaker 1: away and I was like, I'm not gonna explain why.
Speaker 1: I'm just this is for myself and my family and
Speaker 1: I need to do this. And I literally put music
Speaker 1: down for like six or seven months after I quit.
Speaker 1: I was just like, I don't even know if I
Speaker 1: want to play music anymore. And then it was when
Speaker 1: we were going to the church and that the guy
Speaker 1: was like, hey, once you sing a song, and I
Speaker 1: was like, it's almost.
Speaker 2: Like you started over. I mean, it is like you
Speaker 2: started over, but it's okay, you're done, except we're gonna
Speaker 2: kind of put you on level one again. But you're
Speaker 2: not doing it for the same reason, but you're doing
Speaker 2: it again, you know.
Speaker 3: No, I'm thankful that it didn't happen, you know then,
Speaker 3: because like I said, I probably wouldn't be here. But
Speaker 3: I do feel like I feel like God allowed me
Speaker 3: to live through that and and have that life so
Speaker 3: that I could stand on stages now and talk about
Speaker 3: what he's done in my life.
Speaker 2: You feel the pressure to sing though, at church every
Speaker 2: time now, because if I had your talent and skill
Speaker 2: and I was knowing, it would be like being a
Speaker 2: singer and being at a wedding. They'd be like, you,
Speaker 2: I get up and do a song.
Speaker 3: No, hot, don't man.
Speaker 1: I'm like if I'm like, I just want to be
Speaker 1: at church and my family. I don't want to sing.
Speaker 1: I don't want to do anything.
Speaker 2: But I'll be looking at you like, are you not
Speaker 2: gonna get out there?
Speaker 3: You're not gonna sing?
Speaker 2: What's crazy too, though, is this is a town where
Speaker 2: a lot of people are really good. It's a town
Speaker 2: where a lot of people are actually great. But still
Speaker 2: you can go to church and it's it's almost like
Speaker 2: the people singing at church are as good or better
Speaker 2: than this. Yeah, it's if you were just to go
Speaker 2: to church and go some of these churches here, this
Speaker 2: is what Nashville is. People will be blown away because
Speaker 2: the singers and the artists that play there are at
Speaker 2: times better than a lot of the top tier artists
Speaker 2: that play played My shirt.
Speaker 3: Everywhere I remember Eastern Sunday. I was still my wife.
Speaker 3: I was like, those girls are really good, like elite level.
Speaker 3: They were great. Yeah, man, sound as good as a
Speaker 3: lot of the people play here on the radio.
Speaker 2: Yeah no, I mean seriously, like the biggest of the bacomen.
Speaker 2: But then you can go down. We'll go down to
Speaker 2: you know, church down the road, and they'll and I
Speaker 2: tell my wife, this is unbelievable how good they are,
Speaker 2: not just like somebody's really good at a bar, but
Speaker 2: like elite level stuff. I'm happy for you, man, It's
Speaker 2: it's a great story. You make really good music, and
Speaker 2: those two have happened to combine to have a like
Speaker 2: a really solid career, completely unorthodox way to have it
Speaker 2: all happen the way it did. But in the end,
Speaker 2: I guess it happened how it's supposed to happen.
Speaker 3: It did. Yeah, I'm glad it did too. Man.
Speaker 2: What do you do for fun?
Speaker 1: I love to cook, That's my second passion. We do
Speaker 1: a thing on our tours called it eating or eat,
Speaker 1: So I do a VIP dinner before every concert. I
Speaker 1: got a shift that travels with me from Napa that
Speaker 1: cooks the really nice dinner for everybody every night.
Speaker 2: And so you've heard of Eating View. What is it eating?
Speaker 2: Eating View just made it up. When you do an interview,
Speaker 2: you cook for people like we not eat while.
Speaker 3: That'd be fun.
Speaker 2: That's what we should have done. Mike should have set
Speaker 2: up and Eating View and I eat while I interview
Speaker 2: him and he cooks real quick. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I love. I love to cook. I love to do
Speaker 3: stuff like that. I like to get out and getting
Speaker 3: you know, the Woods, read four Withers and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: So all right, here's IM gonna say you guys, rescue
Speaker 2: story from Zach. The Kid's book comes out in August.
Speaker 2: And in the pre before you got here, we you know,
Speaker 2: talked about the music. But your last record, record came
Speaker 2: out in the fall last year, right yet like last
Speaker 2: like studio record?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it came out September of twenty three.
Speaker 2: Yeah, last year. Yeah, My years are all messed up.
Speaker 1: Too, mine are I can't remember, honestly, I'm trying to think.
Speaker 1: I'm on the third tour of this record.
Speaker 2: So yeah, it was so, I guess my last last
Speaker 2: question is are you working on new studio music? I
Speaker 2: am with any indication of.
Speaker 3: When it's coming out.
Speaker 2: I mean I'm going to ask that directly because I hate.
Speaker 3: I'm trying to get stuff ready for the Fully Cool.
Speaker 3: That's the plan.
Speaker 1: I've actually have a meeting after this song meetings, all right,
Speaker 1: go do it picking songs.
Speaker 2: Thanks for coming by, really appreciate it.
Speaker 3: I appreciate it.
Speaker 5: Thanks for listening to a Bobby Cast production