WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 135 0:00:01.760 --> 0:00:05.320 Al Zone Media. Hey everybody, Robert Evans here and I 0:00:05.360 --> 0:00:08.520 wanted to let you know this is a compilation episode. 0:00:08.520 --> 0:00:11.840 So every episode of the week that just happened is 0:00:11.880 --> 0:00:15.680 here in one convenient and with somewhat less ads package 0:00:16.040 --> 0:00:17.880 for you to listen to in a long stretch if 0:00:17.920 --> 0:00:20.280 you want. If you've been listening to the episodes every 0:00:20.320 --> 0:00:22.080 day this week, there's going to be nothing new here 0:00:22.120 --> 0:00:24.800 for you, but you can make your own decisions. 0:00:26.320 --> 0:00:29.560 It's riot time when it could happen here, this is 0:00:29.640 --> 0:00:32.560 this is the podcast that you're listening to. It's about 0:00:33.159 --> 0:00:35.400 this is this one's kind of about bad things. This 0:00:35.479 --> 0:00:37.880 is this is about a bunch of riots in the past. 0:00:38.200 --> 0:00:40.839 I'm your host to be along with Vus James and Garrison. 0:00:42.200 --> 0:00:42.880 Hello Harmony. 0:00:43.960 --> 0:00:47.239 So one of the kind of I don't know, the 0:00:47.400 --> 0:00:50.360 trends of twenty twenty four is everyone looking at this 0:00:50.479 --> 0:00:52.760 year and going this is nineteen sixty eight. Again. There's 0:00:52.800 --> 0:00:55.760 campus occupations that are anti war protests. There is a 0:00:55.760 --> 0:00:58.600 Democratic National Convention that is expected to be extremely hot, 0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:02.000 and so so one of one of the things that 0:01:02.040 --> 0:01:04.319 we are doing in the run up to the Democratic 0:01:04.360 --> 0:01:06.839 Convention is we are going to go do some episodes 0:01:06.959 --> 0:01:09.800 about nineteen sixty eight, and we are eventually going to 0:01:09.840 --> 0:01:13.800 do episodes about like the Columbia campus occupations and about 0:01:13.840 --> 0:01:18.320 the DNC. But unfortunately, in order to do that, we 0:01:18.360 --> 0:01:21.040 have to why I say, unfortunately, this is actually not unfortunately, 0:01:21.080 --> 0:01:24.959 this this mostly rules. I don't know, some of it's bad. 0:01:25.800 --> 0:01:28.160 But in order to talk about this, and this is 0:01:28.240 --> 0:01:29.840 this is the part of this whole thing that has 0:01:29.880 --> 0:01:33.800 been completely forgotten, right, you know, there's there's become this 0:01:33.920 --> 0:01:37.759 kind of like I don't know, state cult isn't quite 0:01:37.800 --> 0:01:39.560 the right word, but there's become this sort of like 0:01:39.680 --> 0:01:43.640 professional institutional history of nineteen sixty eight, where like all 0:01:43.680 --> 0:01:47.120 of these universities like proudly have banners from like nineteen 0:01:47.120 --> 0:01:51.240 sixty eight protests. Everyone has been like, you know, incredibly 0:01:51.240 --> 0:01:53.720 willing to embrace the legacy of the anti war movements 0:01:53.720 --> 0:01:56.960 and the campus occupations, and you know, like insofar as 0:01:57.000 --> 0:01:59.440 they tell people not to embrace things, it's this stuff 0:01:59.480 --> 0:02:02.280 about like you know, you hear this concert screaming about 0:02:02.360 --> 0:02:05.480 don't repeat the sixty eight convention. But there's one part 0:02:05.480 --> 0:02:08.880 of this story that has is just gone, has been 0:02:09.240 --> 0:02:12.040 excised from the historical record. It is extremely clear that 0:02:12.120 --> 0:02:15.400 no one wants you to remember it whatsoever. And that 0:02:15.760 --> 0:02:18.240 is the Holy Week Uprising? Do you two know? Have 0:02:18.320 --> 0:02:20.119 you heard of the Holy Week Uprising? 0:02:20.880 --> 0:02:24.840 Not before you started talking about it in our work meetings. 0:02:25.480 --> 0:02:29.120 I'm familiar with it. I've covered in US history ghosts before, 0:02:29.760 --> 0:02:32.600 not as that name. I think people might be more 0:02:32.600 --> 0:02:34.359 familiar with it. Have you described the events? 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:37.280 Yeah? So the other name for is the MLK riots, 0:02:37.320 --> 0:02:42.480 which is a week I mean, okay, so it's okay, yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, 0:02:42.520 --> 0:02:45.920 so okay, so and I should be clear about this. Okay, 0:02:46.000 --> 0:02:49.000 So there are there are really two things going on here. 0:02:49.320 --> 0:02:52.959 There is one the actually it's usually thought of it 0:02:53.000 --> 0:02:55.040 was about a week, but it's it's actually longer than that. 0:02:55.040 --> 0:02:57.240 There's like a couple of months of rioting in various 0:02:57.240 --> 0:03:00.839 places over the oascination of MLK. The other thing that's 0:03:00.880 --> 0:03:05.400 going on here is a wave of urban rebellion. And 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:09.000 when I say urban here, I'm not just talking about 0:03:09.320 --> 0:03:13.200 you know, like Watts or Detroit or Chicago, like these 0:03:13.240 --> 0:03:15.320 like giant urban cities, which is which is how you know, 0:03:15.600 --> 0:03:18.239 insofar as anyone ever talks about rioting in this period, 0:03:18.360 --> 0:03:21.639 is about these large urban centers. No, they are rioting 0:03:21.680 --> 0:03:24.359 in Milwaukee. The most intense fighting that we're going to 0:03:24.400 --> 0:03:27.920 talk about in this episode happens in York, Pennsylvania. In 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:31.200 this period for about is about nineteen sixty three to 0:03:32.480 --> 0:03:37.560 roughly by by nineteen seventy one seventy two, it's kind 0:03:37.560 --> 0:03:44.520 of over. There are a staggering number of urban uprisings. 0:03:44.600 --> 0:03:46.320 I'm gonna I'm gonna read a quote from a book 0:03:46.320 --> 0:03:48.720 called The Great Uprising, which is about this sort of period. 0:03:49.000 --> 0:03:52.480 Between nineteen sixty three and nineteen seventy two, America experienced 0:03:52.520 --> 0:03:56.240 over seven hundred and fifty urban revolts. Upwards of five 0:03:56.320 --> 0:03:59.960 hundred and twenty five cities were affected, including nearly every 0:04:00.440 --> 0:04:04.040 one with a black population over fifty thousand. The two 0:04:04.160 --> 0:04:06.760 largest wave of uprisings came during the summer of nineteen 0:04:06.800 --> 0:04:09.280 sixty seven Entry and Holy Week in nineteen sixty eight, 0:04:09.320 --> 0:04:12.720 following the assassination of Martin Luther King Junior. In these 0:04:12.760 --> 0:04:15.960 two years alone, one hundred and twenty five people were killed, 0:04:16.040 --> 0:04:19.600 nearly seven thousand were injured, approximately forty five thousand arrests 0:04:19.600 --> 0:04:22.640 were made, and property damaged topped one hundred and twenty 0:04:22.640 --> 0:04:25.640 seven million dollars or approximately nine hundred million and twenty 0:04:25.680 --> 0:04:26.840 seventeen dollars. 0:04:27.800 --> 0:04:30.840 If you can even stretch this out to, like can 0:04:30.880 --> 0:04:32.039 I just give you the spam and I put on 0:04:32.080 --> 0:04:33.680 this in my history class and then and then we 0:04:33.720 --> 0:04:37.160 can we continue? Yeah, okay, So the way I perceive 0:04:37.279 --> 0:04:42.400 this is the process of decolonization begins like in the colonies, 0:04:42.440 --> 0:04:44.480 and it comes back to the metropol right, and we 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:48.640 see like this physical declonization in places like Algeria, right, 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:52.039 and then the impact of witnessing that returns to the 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:56.280 metropol along with the theories that like if you want to 0:04:56.279 --> 0:04:58.440 say they decononize the mind, I think that that's an 0:04:58.480 --> 0:05:03.360 acceptable way. And like this sort of struggle and even 0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:05.480 the esthetic, right, like the esthetic of the Battle of 0:05:05.480 --> 0:05:08.640 Algias is present in some of these uprisings, like and 0:05:08.800 --> 0:05:11.000 you can stretch it out to like, you know, I 0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:12.960 like to talk about wynded Ny, but a second occupation 0:05:12.960 --> 0:05:15.000 of Wyndedney in nineteen seventy three. I think you could 0:05:15.000 --> 0:05:18.320 also see that as part of this decolonization struggle. At 0:05:18.360 --> 0:05:21.240 least that's my uh, yeah, that's my angle on it. 0:05:21.920 --> 0:05:24.400 Yeah, And I think there's definitely a lot of like, 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:26.760 I don't know, there's a lot of inspiration taken there. 0:05:26.800 --> 0:05:29.159 I think the way it's usually seen in the US 0:05:29.480 --> 0:05:32.159 is as this is the sort of I don't know, 0:05:32.360 --> 0:05:34.480 it's kind of as it's seen. This is kind of 0:05:35.080 --> 0:05:36.840 this is where everything went off the rails after the 0:05:36.880 --> 0:05:41.000 Civil Rights movement, which isn't what happens. Yeah, And the 0:05:41.040 --> 0:05:42.440 other way I think this is seen and this is 0:05:43.080 --> 0:05:45.960 I don't know, a lens that is kind of useful 0:05:46.000 --> 0:05:49.520 to talk about this, but kind of isn't is about 0:05:49.640 --> 0:05:52.839 the sort of quote unquote long nineteen sixty eight. So 0:05:53.040 --> 0:05:54.560 you know, we're gonna be covering a lot of nineteen 0:05:54.560 --> 0:05:57.240 sixty eight stuff on this show, you know, So like 0:05:57.240 --> 0:05:59.720 there's obviously this nineteen sixty eight in France. I think 0:06:00.600 --> 0:06:02.800 I think if you want to look at the origin 0:06:02.920 --> 0:06:07.400 point of the sort of like wave uprisings that are 0:06:07.440 --> 0:06:10.479 specifically nineteen sixty eight and that aren't sort of like 0:06:10.640 --> 0:06:16.480 the decolonization arc, I think it probably starts in China 0:06:16.640 --> 0:06:20.520 with the January storm in nineteen sixty seven. But on 0:06:20.560 --> 0:06:22.600 the other hand, sort of and then this is you know, 0:06:23.080 --> 0:06:24.839 one of the things about this period is everything is 0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:27.120 happening so much at the same time, right, Like we 0:06:27.360 --> 0:06:29.039 have a lot of experience about this, but like you know, 0:06:29.400 --> 0:06:33.040 as the January Storm, the January Storm is this part 0:06:33.080 --> 0:06:35.960 of the culture revolution where Mao kind of loses control 0:06:36.640 --> 0:06:39.919 and Mao kind of incites a bunch of these like 0:06:39.960 --> 0:06:43.560 a bunch of workers in Shanghai to like take the city. 0:06:43.960 --> 0:06:46.200 But then they actually take the city, and they run 0:06:46.240 --> 0:06:49.200 the Party out, they run the PLA out, and for 0:06:49.279 --> 0:06:52.080 a brief period of time, Shanghai like has just been 0:06:52.120 --> 0:06:54.200 taken by its working class and is not being run 0:06:54.240 --> 0:06:56.440 by the Party. And there's this whole like you know, 0:06:56.640 --> 0:07:00.320 massive series of struggles, it kind of struggles. But the 0:07:00.320 --> 0:07:01.800 the thing the think about the sort of the way 0:07:01.800 --> 0:07:03.720 sixty is understood is, you know, even some people even 0:07:03.760 --> 0:07:07.279 include that, but these riots, specifically the Holy Week riots 0:07:07.279 --> 0:07:12.040 are almost never talked about as as part of this process, 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:14.720 which I think they obviously are, and I think you know, 0:07:14.840 --> 0:07:17.000 part of the reason we're talking about them now is 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:20.560 that you can't understand the Columbia campus occupations. You can't 0:07:20.640 --> 0:07:23.560 understand the kind of politics that's going to come after that. 0:07:23.600 --> 0:07:26.120 You can't understand the and see you can't understand like 0:07:26.160 --> 0:07:28.880 the rise of Black radicalism. Like, none of this is 0:07:28.880 --> 0:07:32.880 comprehensible at all unless you understand these riots, because this 0:07:33.040 --> 0:07:36.640 was the uprising that sort of kicked everything off. It's 0:07:36.640 --> 0:07:38.280 also this is a very hard thing to write about 0:07:38.360 --> 0:07:41.840 because like this, I've had the time of my life 0:07:41.920 --> 0:07:43.960 trying to put this together because this thing should be 0:07:44.040 --> 0:07:46.560 like thirty five hours, and I don't have thirty five hours. 0:07:46.600 --> 0:07:50.560 I have thirty minutes. So that being said, let's get 0:07:50.560 --> 0:07:54.840 into why these are happening. So obviously, there is the 0:07:54.840 --> 0:07:57.640 civil rights movement happening. You know, nineteen sixty five, you 0:07:57.720 --> 0:07:59.560 get get the Voting Rights Act. We've had some civil 0:07:59.640 --> 0:08:06.040 rights Act. But comma, if you are like you are 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:08.680 a part of the black working class in nineteen cities 0:08:08.640 --> 0:08:11.880 of America, a society is still unbelievably racist. Like they're like, 0:08:12.000 --> 0:08:14.720 you know, on a very basic level, there's a bunch 0:08:14.760 --> 0:08:17.280 of people walking around calling you the N words. You 0:08:17.360 --> 0:08:20.760 are restricted to the shittiest jobs available, assuming you can 0:08:20.800 --> 0:08:23.680 find work at all. One of the biggest ones. And 0:08:23.720 --> 0:08:25.560 this is something that this is something that was a 0:08:25.680 --> 0:08:27.760 very big focus of the kind of later civil rights 0:08:27.880 --> 0:08:30.440 ument that kind of has been a race for historical memory. 0:08:30.480 --> 0:08:32.959 Was the struggle over housing. I'm going to read another 0:08:33.000 --> 0:08:38.360 thing from the Great Uprising. SNCC field worker John Beptize, 0:08:38.400 --> 0:08:41.040 who took over for Robinson and Hanson, described many of 0:08:41.040 --> 0:08:43.600 the homes in the second ward. This is in Cambridge, 0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:46.160 which is one of the places where those really intense rioting. 0:08:46.280 --> 0:08:48.880 Both we'll talk about this in a little bit, but 0:08:49.040 --> 0:08:53.240 both in sixty three and in sixty seven describe many 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:55.520 of the homes in the second ward as nothing more 0:08:55.559 --> 0:08:59.880 than converted horse barns, corn cribs, and company shacks which 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:05.360 lacked hot running water, flush toilets, and electricity. Separate and 0:09:05.400 --> 0:09:09.839 independent investigations by federal officials confirmed at USA's claims. We 0:09:09.840 --> 0:09:14.280 were shown block after block of tottering, single family frame structures, 0:09:14.360 --> 0:09:17.600 often lined along dirt roads and generally with little or 0:09:17.640 --> 0:09:20.560 no setback, which is like they're like directly on the 0:09:20.600 --> 0:09:22.960 street right like you open your door and you're on 0:09:22.960 --> 0:09:27.760 the street, crowded almost against each other, and on small lots, 0:09:27.800 --> 0:09:30.400 sometimes of no more than fifty or sixty foot depth, 0:09:30.440 --> 0:09:33.600 reported one US Department of Housing a urban development official. 0:09:34.080 --> 0:09:37.440 These dwellings were obviously obsolete and in disrepair, with tumbling 0:09:37.480 --> 0:09:41.040 porches and steps. Many were without inside toilets, and in 0:09:41.080 --> 0:09:43.959 several instances, the outside privy served more than one family. 0:09:44.520 --> 0:09:48.040 Hot Water is rarely available, and several are without inside water. 0:09:48.200 --> 0:09:52.440 Overcrowding is a common pattern. So you know, this is 0:09:52.480 --> 0:09:55.160 the kind of like, this is one of the centers 0:09:55.200 --> 0:09:58.080 of these struggles. So these people are living in like 0:09:58.400 --> 0:10:03.679 nineteen thirties bar and this, you know, there is there 0:10:03.720 --> 0:10:05.800 is a sort of staggering amount of anger about this. 0:10:06.360 --> 0:10:08.640 And the other the other aspect of this is that 0:10:08.960 --> 0:10:11.400 you know, okay, so these people are living in like 0:10:12.080 --> 0:10:16.480 places that are not fit human habitation. Also, they're on 0:10:16.600 --> 0:10:19.360 average fifty six percent more of their income goes to 0:10:19.440 --> 0:10:23.400 rent than white people than then white people paid a rent, 0:10:23.400 --> 0:10:25.440 which means that you know, and and this this is 0:10:25.480 --> 0:10:28.480 also one of the things that's happening in this period 0:10:28.679 --> 0:10:31.280 is that there's a bunch of money for like white 0:10:31.320 --> 0:10:33.480 people that the government is giving them, are giving people 0:10:33.600 --> 0:10:35.760 sort of loans and subsidies and tax credits to go 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:38.640 buy houses. None of this is happening for black people. 0:10:38.720 --> 0:10:41.720 So what you have is a situation where like, if 0:10:41.760 --> 0:10:43.800 you are black, basically all of your money is being 0:10:43.840 --> 0:10:46.440 absorbed into rents. There is no possibility of you like 0:10:46.559 --> 0:10:49.320 saving or you know, like saving to buy a house, 0:10:49.960 --> 0:10:52.080 like other than the sort of like ramshackle shit that 0:10:52.120 --> 0:10:55.120 you're in, like the conventional civil rights movement, right, you're 0:10:55.160 --> 0:10:58.120 sort of like non violent marches. This hasn't done shit 0:10:59.000 --> 0:11:02.280 to deal with any of these problems. You're also dealing 0:11:02.679 --> 0:11:08.520 with really really intense labor discrimination, you know, and I 0:11:08.520 --> 0:11:11.160 mean these are things like like there's this kind of 0:11:11.240 --> 0:11:14.480 like example in Baltimore where you know, you'll you'll you'll 0:11:14.480 --> 0:11:18.120 have union locals that are literally all white locals, right, 0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:20.920 and they will they will cut these deals with management 0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:23.360 where they'll be like, well, management will hands like hiring 0:11:23.400 --> 0:11:25.520 and firing power over to the unions, and the unions go, 0:11:25.559 --> 0:11:28.160 oh great, okay, and this this is a negotiated thing 0:11:28.160 --> 0:11:30.240 between the two. The unions are like, okay, only unions 0:11:30.240 --> 0:11:32.200 can work at only union members can work at the shop, 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:33.840 which in theory is good, but in practice what this 0:11:33.960 --> 0:11:37.480 means is because these are all white unions, right, they've 0:11:37.480 --> 0:11:39.360 they've now created a system by which you can, by 0:11:39.360 --> 0:11:41.200 which you can just not hire black people. Ever. 0:11:42.120 --> 0:11:47.040 Yeah, the the Brianna wu method. God, yeah, you know 0:11:47.200 --> 0:11:49.240 it's a reference to a terrible tweet I hopefy people 0:11:49.280 --> 0:11:49.760 haven't seen. 0:11:50.080 --> 0:11:53.880 Oh god, yeah. And you know the the other things 0:11:53.880 --> 0:11:56.000 that are sort of happening here, right, is so in 0:11:56.120 --> 0:11:59.800 theory desegregation is supposed to be happening. In practice, that 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:04.000 shit is not happening. People are making people are doing 0:12:04.080 --> 0:12:06.760 these like you know, like white progressors are giving these 0:12:06.760 --> 0:12:10.400 speeches about how like a segregation is like ending where 0:12:10.480 --> 0:12:15.880 we're like integrating quickly, and it's not happening, and all 0:12:15.920 --> 0:12:20.520 of this kind of you know, all of this sort 0:12:20.520 --> 0:12:23.560 of fuel and also and obviously the sort of immediate 0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:25.880 spark of a lot of a lot of these uprisings, 0:12:25.920 --> 0:12:29.120 So particularly in sixty seven, is that as as happens today, 0:12:29.160 --> 0:12:31.920 you know, you all statistically have lived I don't know 0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:33.880 why I was saysistically, all of you have lived through this. 0:12:34.080 --> 0:12:36.440 All of you probably have been to at least one 0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:39.160 protest that is this is that the coptious murder people. 0:12:40.040 --> 0:12:44.840 And all of this sets off a set of kindling 0:12:44.880 --> 0:12:49.560 and is going to lead to a simply staggering wave 0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:52.560 of uprisings. But first, do you know what, I won't 0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:55.640 lead to a simply staggering set of uprisings if you 0:12:55.679 --> 0:12:56.120 buy them. 0:12:56.559 --> 0:12:59.720 It's the production and consumption of created needs as described 0:12:59.720 --> 0:12:59.920 by her. 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:05.920 But Mark Husa, that's right, James, yes, or more on that. 0:13:06.040 --> 0:13:06.960 Here's these ads. 0:13:18.640 --> 0:13:21.439 So we are back, all right, So let let's start 0:13:21.480 --> 0:13:25.800 actually talking about some of these riots. Okay, So I've 0:13:26.120 --> 0:13:28.760 mentioned before that these riots are happening in a lot 0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:32.640 of places that are not like that are not typically considering. 0:13:32.960 --> 0:13:35.400 We're actually not gonna talk sort of stunningly for thinking 0:13:35.400 --> 0:13:37.680 about this. We're not going to talk about the wats riots, 0:13:37.720 --> 0:13:39.319 which are probably the biggest and most famous of the 0:13:39.400 --> 0:13:40.920 riots in this period. We're not going to talk about 0:13:40.920 --> 0:13:43.000 Detroit either, even though that was another really big one, 0:13:43.040 --> 0:13:46.000 because you know, you you can go out and you 0:13:46.000 --> 0:13:49.040 can find a bunch of people kind of talking about these. 0:13:49.440 --> 0:13:56.040 We are going to start in Omaha, where begin Yeah, 0:13:56.880 --> 0:13:59.040 but again this is this is something that's very important, 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:01.320 is that this is not just a sort of uprising 0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:03.480 of the urban ghettos, which is which is how it's 0:14:03.600 --> 0:14:05.640 like very explicit. This is literally the language that is 0:14:05.720 --> 0:14:09.200 used at this time to describe what's happening here. But like, no, 0:14:09.360 --> 0:14:14.200 this is happening in a bund like again Cincinnati. Omaha 0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:16.360 is interesting because it has one of the a very 0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:19.840 very common. One of the other big sort of rallying 0:14:19.880 --> 0:14:23.800 points in this era is price gouging. So you know, 0:14:23.840 --> 0:14:26.520 if you're if you're in one of these like ninety 0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:29.440 nine percent black communities, like the one like the one 0:14:29.440 --> 0:14:31.960 white person who is there is the shop owner. And 0:14:32.000 --> 0:14:33.800 the thing the shop owner is doing is the shop 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:36.480 owner is gouging you for food because you don't you know, 0:14:36.520 --> 0:14:38.160 you don't have any other options to buy for you from, 0:14:38.200 --> 0:14:39.680 so they're going to gouge you and they're going to 0:14:39.680 --> 0:14:41.760 give you like the worst products you can ever you've 0:14:41.760 --> 0:14:44.280 ever seen in your life. And so by May sixty six, 0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:46.800 people are just fed up with this. There start there 0:14:46.880 --> 0:14:49.200 start to be sort of protests, like specifically at these 0:14:49.200 --> 0:14:51.800 white stores. Uh there's a bunch of people, you know, 0:14:51.960 --> 0:14:54.920 throwing rocks at the cops. Yeah, and so you know, so, 0:14:55.040 --> 0:14:57.160 I mean, okay. The other thing that's very important to 0:14:57.240 --> 0:15:00.840 understand about these places is that these riots don't just 0:15:00.960 --> 0:15:03.840 start out of nowhere, right. These are mostly places where 0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:06.040 there have been existing civil rights movements and they kind 0:15:06.040 --> 0:15:07.320 of just ran into a stone wall. 0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:08.000 You know. 0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:09.920 One of the big things in this period too, and 0:15:10.080 --> 0:15:11.920 this is something that like like you know, this is 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:14.800 what MLKA and the Poor People's Campaign was sort of 0:15:14.840 --> 0:15:17.920 working on at the same time, was you know, these 0:15:17.960 --> 0:15:20.720 these these demands for job programs, and so people are 0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:24.200 you know, marching around they doing like pickets Omaha, like 0:15:24.240 --> 0:15:28.120 has has a Malcolm X come speak at one point 0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:30.320 and he's talking about like, you know, like the youth 0:15:30.360 --> 0:15:32.520 these protests and people like marching outside of Safeway saying 0:15:32.560 --> 0:15:37.400 like we want jobs, and these protests start getting attacked 0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:39.640 by the police and this is something that you know, 0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:42.040 this is something that that has been happening to these 0:15:42.080 --> 0:15:44.480 nonviolent sit ins. I'm going to read a passage from 0:15:44.560 --> 0:15:48.040 the book. Then the burnings began from there. Omaha police 0:15:48.080 --> 0:15:51.200 Wallace is quote unquote goon squad and spectators began to 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:54.040 beat the protesters out of the auditorium using batons and 0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:58.320 metal folding chairs. Reeling from the attacks, African American youth 0:15:58.400 --> 0:16:02.200 retaliated in the streets. So like like they'll be in 0:16:02.360 --> 0:16:05.320 meetings with community with like like the mayor or whatever, 0:16:05.400 --> 0:16:09.280 and these fucking mobs will start just beating people with chairs. 0:16:10.240 --> 0:16:11.280 The goons squad. 0:16:11.360 --> 0:16:16.600 You say, yeah, God reminds me of the within running 0:16:16.720 --> 0:16:19.280 ads to free down at Peltier a week. But the 0:16:19.400 --> 0:16:22.560 guardians of the Agglala Nation, but like they literally call 0:16:22.680 --> 0:16:26.840 themselves the goons. I'm guessing they'll people, not the people 0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:30.960 participating in this particular beating. Non many such cases in 0:16:31.000 --> 0:16:31.360 this area. 0:16:31.440 --> 0:16:33.840 Yeah, and this gets to another aspect of these of 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:36.200 these riots is that a lot of them aren't started 0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:38.920 by rioters. They're started by a bunch of like a 0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:43.280 white mob showing up and attacking people. And so you 0:16:43.320 --> 0:16:46.040 know in Omaha, and this is something that we're going 0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:48.520 to see a lot. Uh that is something that kind 0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:51.600 of doesn't happen as much now, is like they just 0:16:51.720 --> 0:16:54.280 the cops just fucking kill people the streets from protests 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:56.640 are happening in Omaha. They like they just they murder 0:16:56.680 --> 0:16:58.880 a kid with a riot gun. And this, you know, 0:16:58.960 --> 0:17:01.560 this sets off like as sort of you know the 0:17:02.000 --> 0:17:03.640 patterns that work shore visa seeing of like these sort 0:17:03.640 --> 0:17:07.080 of escalating riots. And this is a very kind of 0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:10.080 familiar riot, right, Like I think we've all we've all 0:17:10.119 --> 0:17:13.000 had the like, Okay, so the police attacked a bunch 0:17:13.040 --> 0:17:14.760 of people, so it caused a riot kind of thing. 0:17:15.000 --> 0:17:16.680 Yeah, so now a riot starts y. 0:17:16.920 --> 0:17:20.480 Yeah, And this is this is a relatively non violent riot, 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:22.679 which is to say that people are mostly throwing stones 0:17:22.680 --> 0:17:28.960 and molotovs. That is absolutely not true of a huge 0:17:29.000 --> 0:17:31.040 amount of the rest of these riots, and particularly as 0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:33.600 we sort of get closer to Holy Week. Something something 0:17:33.640 --> 0:17:36.639 that is very important about the sixty eight riots that 0:17:36.720 --> 0:17:38.680 is not true about any riots that we've ever lived 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:43.000 through is that not only are people extremely well armed, 0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:47.600 they are the state's monopoly on violence in nineteen sixty 0:17:47.640 --> 0:17:49.400 eight is nowhere near as powerful as it is now. 0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:52.560 People will just fucking shoot. And one of the constant 0:17:52.560 --> 0:17:54.679 things you read about when when you're reading about these 0:17:54.800 --> 0:17:58.000 riots is that is you know, every police account has 0:17:58.000 --> 0:18:01.679 police like like screaming about and like I didn't believe this, 0:18:01.760 --> 0:18:03.040 right because I was reading this, I was like, okay, 0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:05.280 whatever other police, Right, they talk about snippers all the time. 0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:07.720 You see this in radical accounts too, where people will 0:18:07.720 --> 0:18:10.120 talk about like, well, yeah, like the the National Guard 0:18:10.200 --> 0:18:12.040 and Watts will be talking about how they're taking sniper 0:18:12.040 --> 0:18:13.760 fires so they'll start shooting machine guns and like the 0:18:13.840 --> 0:18:18.600 rus of build at buildings, right, But no, like this 0:18:18.800 --> 0:18:22.119 was real. People actually were like doing this, and you 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:24.639 know I was I was really sort of like like 0:18:24.720 --> 0:18:26.879 on the on the fence about this, like this was 0:18:26.920 --> 0:18:29.600 this actually happening? And then the next thing I read 0:18:29.720 --> 0:18:31.160 was an interview with a guy who'd been a black 0:18:31.200 --> 0:18:34.600 nationalist and starts talking about how they they they were 0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:37.480 using all of their dynamite stores and how they didn't 0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:39.399 have fuses for the dynamite so they had to like 0:18:39.440 --> 0:18:41.639 they had to plant the dynamite and then retreat across 0:18:41.680 --> 0:18:43.560 the sheet to shoot at the dynamite so the dynamite 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:44.160 would go off. 0:18:45.280 --> 0:18:48.080 It sounds like a fun exercise. 0:18:48.640 --> 0:18:50.879 Yeah, it was. It was nuts. It was like the 0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:54.080 kinds of stuff these people were doing is sort of 0:18:54.119 --> 0:18:57.240 just really it's it's really staggering. 0:18:57.920 --> 0:18:59.919 This, Like you say, the state just didn't have that 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:03.080 same monopoly on on violence like that there was. It 0:19:03.080 --> 0:19:05.880 didn't have the overwhelmed cops, didn't have like the overwhelming 0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:08.440 force that they do now, that they didn't possess tanks, 0:19:08.840 --> 0:19:10.400 and like it was a lot harder to trace gun 0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:13.000 purchases in nineteen sixties because not everyone used credit cards, 0:19:13.000 --> 0:19:14.600 so it made it a whole lot easier for folks 0:19:14.680 --> 0:19:16.520 to have and keep guns. 0:19:16.920 --> 0:19:18.760 Yeah. Well, the other thing is, like, you know, this 0:19:18.800 --> 0:19:21.840 is something that that in some of the This is 0:19:21.840 --> 0:19:25.840 something that played into some of the NAACP, like chapters 0:19:25.840 --> 0:19:27.400 in the South that were the sort of like black 0:19:27.400 --> 0:19:30.199 working class chapters. Is that, like so if you were 0:19:30.200 --> 0:19:32.320 if you were an NRA chapter, you could just buy 0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:35.360 at a really cheap bulk rate like surplus M one 0:19:35.359 --> 0:19:37.280 gearns from the US Army and AMMO, and they would 0:19:37.280 --> 0:19:37.800 just sell it to you. 0:19:38.280 --> 0:19:40.080 Yeah, you can still buy them at a pretty cheap 0:19:40.160 --> 0:19:41.119 rate to the CMP. 0:19:41.280 --> 0:19:43.720 Yeah, yeah, but you could buy like like really large 0:19:43.800 --> 0:19:45.679 quantities of them as long as you were sort of 0:19:45.720 --> 0:19:48.520 like you know, there was this kind of like popular 0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:54.040 like popular like gun marksmen culture that we don't like 0:19:54.119 --> 0:19:55.840 we have and in like our gun culture is kind 0:19:55.840 --> 0:19:58.160 of insane, and this was like a very different thing 0:19:58.200 --> 0:19:58.520 from there. 0:19:58.560 --> 0:20:02.439 Yeah, definitely. And you had like Rob Williams was the 0:20:02.440 --> 0:20:05.600 the are you failing with Rob Williams? Yeah, yeah, he 0:20:05.600 --> 0:20:08.080 wrote a book called Negroes with Guns. He was the 0:20:08.160 --> 0:20:11.639 he was the leader of the NRA chapter right in Monroe. 0:20:11.760 --> 0:20:15.360 But then yeah, also a member of the NAACP, which, 0:20:15.520 --> 0:20:18.720 like the NRA has has has pivoted a long way 0:20:18.760 --> 0:20:19.359 from what it was. 0:20:20.160 --> 0:20:20.360 Yeah. 0:20:20.480 --> 0:20:22.359 Yeah, Well, and part of what's happening here is people 0:20:22.400 --> 0:20:24.520 are just kind of like picking up whatever institution they 0:20:24.640 --> 0:20:27.000 have and using it to like build a movement a tool. 0:20:27.280 --> 0:20:27.480 Yeah. 0:20:27.960 --> 0:20:30.680 Yeah, So all right, we're gonna we're gonna move on 0:20:30.800 --> 0:20:35.200 from Omaha and Cincinnati, like you know, so we're we're 0:20:35.200 --> 0:20:38.680 gonnatart talking about some of the I guess you'd call 0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:43.440 like the uprising proper. So I guess before we fully 0:20:43.520 --> 0:20:47.119 head into this, it should be noted that there's it's generally, 0:20:47.119 --> 0:20:49.840 you know, I talked about this before. There's generally the 0:20:49.920 --> 0:20:51.600 way these riots are understood is as a thing that 0:20:51.720 --> 0:20:54.639 is discontinuous from the civil rights movement, and that's just 0:20:54.920 --> 0:20:57.920 not true. A lot of the civil rights movement, like 0:20:58.119 --> 0:21:01.200 things that people now think of like non violent campaigns, 0:21:01.359 --> 0:21:05.040 weren't like a lot of the stuff in Oh My 0:21:05.119 --> 0:21:07.159 fucking like a lot a lot of the fights in Louisiana, 0:21:07.320 --> 0:21:09.280 like are just straight up riots. Yeah. And one of 0:21:09.320 --> 0:21:12.000 the important sort of bridge figures here is Gloria Richardson, 0:21:12.080 --> 0:21:14.600 who's I wish we could do like an entire episode 0:21:14.640 --> 0:21:16.720 about her right now, but that'll have to wait till later. 0:21:17.400 --> 0:21:21.520 She's a civil rights activist in Cambridge and her movements, 0:21:21.600 --> 0:21:23.280 like you know, like she is in a lot of 0:21:23.359 --> 0:21:26.080 ways that like kind of dedicated non violence, but she's 0:21:26.160 --> 0:21:28.280 very explicit that we're going to do armed self defense, 0:21:28.760 --> 0:21:30.359 and a lot of the stuff that she leaves. I mean, 0:21:30.440 --> 0:21:32.400 this is you know, getting back to like nineteen sixty three. 0:21:32.960 --> 0:21:35.800 Like the civil rights stuff that she's doing is extremely effective, 0:21:35.840 --> 0:21:37.560 and a lot of it is just straight up riots, 0:21:38.359 --> 0:21:40.760 to the point where like there's a very famous thing 0:21:40.840 --> 0:21:42.840 for the civil rights there are called the Treaty of Cambridge, 0:21:43.000 --> 0:21:46.159 where like she and her people agreed to like stop 0:21:46.280 --> 0:21:50.959 rioting and the city agreed to completely integrate. But by 0:21:50.960 --> 0:21:52.920 the time he gets to nineteen sixty seven, they haven't 0:21:53.160 --> 0:21:58.000 done it, and so the riots started off in Cambridge again, 0:21:58.280 --> 0:22:02.159 and you have this incredibly sort of like summer over 0:22:02.320 --> 0:22:04.280 the course of ninety sixty seven is there's there's this 0:22:04.800 --> 0:22:07.639 like enormous wave of riots and you know a Cambridge 0:22:07.680 --> 0:22:09.920 a famous one, but like Detroit's another big one. And this, 0:22:11.240 --> 0:22:14.040 I don't know, this should have given people warning that 0:22:15.240 --> 0:22:17.840 there there would be you know, giant uprisings if anyone 0:22:17.880 --> 0:22:22.119 did anything to MLK, but apparently it didn't. And I 0:22:22.440 --> 0:22:24.920 you know, I you know what else I won't I 0:22:24.920 --> 0:22:27.320 don't know, set off I've already used the you know 0:22:27.359 --> 0:22:30.639 what else won't set off massive waves of uprisings pivot. 0:22:30.680 --> 0:22:32.600 I really didn't prepare good enough pivots for this. 0:22:34.480 --> 0:22:36.520 What weren't assassinated civil rights leader. 0:22:37.720 --> 0:22:40.760 We can't promise that. We really cannot promise them. 0:22:42.400 --> 0:22:46.000 No, companies would never do anything like that that talking 0:22:46.040 --> 0:22:46.760 about dames. 0:22:47.080 --> 0:22:49.000 Certainly not the mail kit delivery. Save is that we 0:22:49.119 --> 0:22:50.120 got mentioned by name. 0:23:00.880 --> 0:23:04.440 All right, we are back, so all right, it is 0:23:04.520 --> 0:23:07.920 now officially timed for Holy Week. So on April fourth, 0:23:08.040 --> 0:23:12.159 nineteen sixty eight, MLK is giving is you know, like 0:23:12.359 --> 0:23:15.120 he is preparing to support a bunch of striking sanitation 0:23:15.240 --> 0:23:18.200 workers and they fucking kill him. Who the they is 0:23:18.600 --> 0:23:22.080 is kind of unclear. Mlk's family later sued the US 0:23:22.160 --> 0:23:25.000 government to make the government prove that they didn't have 0:23:25.200 --> 0:23:27.520 they weren't involved in the assassination. The government paid them 0:23:27.560 --> 0:23:32.159 one dollar instead, So you know, make of that what 0:23:32.280 --> 0:23:34.639 you will. But what did happen is that, you know, 0:23:35.000 --> 0:23:40.440 he was killed by white people. And this this detonates 0:23:40.480 --> 0:23:44.520 a fucking nuclear weapon in the US. You know, reading 0:23:44.560 --> 0:23:49.120 accounts to me, it reminds me of the first week 0:23:49.320 --> 0:23:51.119 of the George Floyd up risings in twenty twenty. I 0:23:51.240 --> 0:23:53.800 want people remember this. There's this picture of this guy 0:23:53.880 --> 0:23:56.760 in Philly with an Elmo like wearing like an Elmo 0:23:57.359 --> 0:24:00.159 like head, and he has his fist rays and he's 0:24:00.200 --> 0:24:01.480 standing in front of a bunch of things of fire 0:24:01.600 --> 0:24:04.040 like this. This is what this is what that looks like. 0:24:04.480 --> 0:24:05.760 I'm going to read a quote from one of the 0:24:05.800 --> 0:24:08.280 people who was people who was there. I mean I 0:24:08.400 --> 0:24:10.360 was sad when I first heard the dues of King's death, 0:24:10.440 --> 0:24:13.000 but not but not like the world around me. The 0:24:13.040 --> 0:24:15.240 city was burning and I'm walking through the city and 0:24:15.320 --> 0:24:17.960 the city is burning, and that's what we wanted. This 0:24:18.200 --> 0:24:20.760 was our time. I mean fire all around my house. 0:24:20.800 --> 0:24:22.680 I mean my house almost got caught on fire when 0:24:22.680 --> 0:24:25.159 I was living because Seventh Street, the whole block was burning. 0:24:25.960 --> 0:24:27.680 And it was just we thought we were in a 0:24:27.760 --> 0:24:32.600 war again. Simple. Simple. One of the interesting parts about 0:24:32.640 --> 0:24:34.399 this is at a lot of civil rights leaders, and 0:24:34.680 --> 0:24:36.680 this is not just true of like obviously the moderate 0:24:36.680 --> 0:24:38.640 civil rights leaders are trying to tell people not to riot, 0:24:39.200 --> 0:24:41.879 but even like Stokesly Carmichael like comes out to the 0:24:41.960 --> 0:24:45.160 crowd and tries to go like please don't like, don't 0:24:45.320 --> 0:24:47.600 ryot don't do this, and the crowd basically tells him 0:24:47.640 --> 0:24:52.600 to fuck off and does it anyways, And the fact 0:24:52.680 --> 0:24:56.000 that they killed MLK, who was you know, m Oka 0:24:56.440 --> 0:24:58.800 was I mean, like even at that time, like the 0:24:58.920 --> 0:25:02.280 sort of living human symbol of nonviolence, right, but he 0:25:02.400 --> 0:25:05.240 was also the symbol of sort of cooperation, of of 0:25:05.440 --> 0:25:08.680 of this belief that you know, you could you could 0:25:08.720 --> 0:25:11.000 do sort of peaceful that you do people, peaceful integration. 0:25:11.119 --> 0:25:14.440 This is something that MLK is kind of like even 0:25:14.560 --> 0:25:17.600 he's kind of getting cynical about by by sixty eight. 0:25:18.040 --> 0:25:21.680 But the fact that they killed him, it, it is, 0:25:21.760 --> 0:25:25.760 it is a kind of psychological blow that I don't 0:25:25.920 --> 0:25:31.440 think we've ever experienced. Like maybe maybe if if you 0:25:31.480 --> 0:25:35.359 took like if you took like Trump's election like on 0:25:35.640 --> 0:25:37.879 at the same time as a twenty twenty uprising, that 0:25:38.119 --> 0:25:43.240 like maybe maybe kind of captures what people are feeling 0:25:43.320 --> 0:25:46.160 in this moment. And I want to read another account. 0:25:46.960 --> 0:25:48.919 I want to read an account that's it's it's it's 0:25:48.960 --> 0:25:53.000 it's sort of secondhand account by this priest. It's like 0:25:53.160 --> 0:25:57.520 a Catholic priest in a largely black area. This this 0:25:57.640 --> 0:26:01.000 is from the Great Uprising, Yet other observers saw the 0:26:01.119 --> 0:26:04.600 uprising as a clear protest against the persistence of racial inequality. 0:26:05.119 --> 0:26:08.639 Father Richard Lawrence, an activist priest whose Catholic parish served 0:26:08.680 --> 0:26:11.680 many blacks, recalled encountering one of his parishioners on the 0:26:11.720 --> 0:26:16.720 street after the revolt had begun. Father, you don't understand. 0:26:17.280 --> 0:26:19.200 I know you've been with the demonstrations and all that 0:26:19.280 --> 0:26:22.080 sort of thing, the parishioner explained to Lawrence, But you 0:26:22.160 --> 0:26:25.439 were born white and you can't really totally understand. I mean, 0:26:25.480 --> 0:26:27.480 I've done the civil rights thing too, you know it. 0:26:27.600 --> 0:26:29.480 I've been there. I've been to the marches, I've been 0:26:29.520 --> 0:26:35.080 to the rallies, you name it. Nobody's listening, His parishioner continued, murdering, 0:26:35.160 --> 0:26:37.879 doctor King was just the last straw that nobody's listening. 0:26:38.240 --> 0:26:40.320 We can go on demonstrating as long as we want. 0:26:40.400 --> 0:26:44.359 No one will listen. I don't know what to try next, 0:26:44.480 --> 0:26:46.880 but maybe blood flowing in the streets is what it takes. 0:26:47.440 --> 0:26:49.480 Maybe some of his blood with some of my blood 0:26:49.560 --> 0:26:52.040 flows in the streets, then maybe the man will listen. 0:26:52.520 --> 0:26:54.840 Maybe not, but I've got nothing left to try. I 0:26:54.880 --> 0:26:57.080 don't care if I got killed. I've got two kids 0:26:57.119 --> 0:26:58.440 and I'm not going to have them come up in 0:26:58.480 --> 0:27:00.879 the world I came up up in. I'm just not 0:27:00.960 --> 0:27:04.280 going to have it. And this is this is I 0:27:04.320 --> 0:27:06.639 think a really important part of these riots is that 0:27:06.960 --> 0:27:11.040 these are people who had fought, who had fought for 0:27:11.240 --> 0:27:14.160 a decade over it. I mean, it's this place about 0:27:14.160 --> 0:27:16.520 a decade and a half of struggle. They've done everything. 0:27:16.560 --> 0:27:18.880 They've done strikes, they've done boycotts, they've done sit ins, 0:27:18.960 --> 0:27:22.040 they've voted, they got the right to vote, right, they marched, 0:27:22.040 --> 0:27:26.119 they did civil disobedience, and you know the product of 0:27:26.160 --> 0:27:28.080 this is that they're living in a dilapidated house with 0:27:28.119 --> 0:27:33.119 a shitty job, and then they fucking killed MLK and 0:27:33.840 --> 0:27:38.040 the country burns. The National Guard straight up is there 0:27:38.200 --> 0:27:40.040 there are there are like there are just straight up 0:27:40.080 --> 0:27:43.720 military occupations in an enormous number of cities. DC is 0:27:43.760 --> 0:27:46.800 occupied by like the five hundred and third Military Police Battalion, 0:27:46.920 --> 0:27:49.920 National Guard and famously the eighty second Airborne. So like 0:27:50.040 --> 0:27:53.960 the regular US Army is being sent into to like 0:27:54.160 --> 0:27:56.880 to like is being sent into these cities. The level 0:27:56.960 --> 0:27:59.359 of sort of burning here too. And this is the 0:27:59.640 --> 0:28:01.840 thing that's I think kind of the most famous part 0:28:01.840 --> 0:28:07.520 of these riots. Is they burn staggering parts of cities. 0:28:08.000 --> 0:28:11.159 There are I mean, just like unbelievable numbers of buildings 0:28:11.200 --> 0:28:15.800 are burned, and people people sort of people, people go 0:28:15.920 --> 0:28:19.359 out to fight people are people are shooting at the police, 0:28:19.400 --> 0:28:20.880 the police are shooting back at them. I mean, there's 0:28:20.920 --> 0:28:22.359 I wasn't able to find the footage. One of my 0:28:22.400 --> 0:28:25.480 friends was telling me about, Like there's there's footage from 0:28:25.640 --> 0:28:27.480 from news people in New York of like a guy 0:28:27.640 --> 0:28:29.879 shooting outside of a window, and they have footage of 0:28:30.600 --> 0:28:33.840 like a police like swat team. Basically I think it's 0:28:34.119 --> 0:28:36.720 like still pre swap, like a police like team coming 0:28:36.800 --> 0:28:41.120 in just killing him. And you know, I mean Richard M. 0:28:41.240 --> 0:28:45.160 Daley famously has has a here's the mayor of Chicago 0:28:45.240 --> 0:28:47.240 has a shoot to kill order. You know, his his 0:28:47.640 --> 0:28:50.280 words are, quote shoot to kill any arsonists or anyone 0:28:50.360 --> 0:28:53.280 with a Molotov cocktail, and quote shoot to cripple or 0:28:53.360 --> 0:28:58.600 mame anyone looting any stores in our city. Jesus. It's 0:28:58.800 --> 0:29:01.040 really fucking bad. And you know, this is something that's 0:29:01.120 --> 0:29:04.400 that's about about these these riots, right Like, Okay, if 0:29:04.480 --> 0:29:06.680 if you look at even the watch riot, or if 0:29:06.680 --> 0:29:08.240 you look at twenty twenty. If you look at like 0:29:08.440 --> 0:29:11.720 twenty fourteen, like the Baltimore Uprising in twenty fifteen, there 0:29:11.760 --> 0:29:14.480 are like people having a good time. Like this is 0:29:14.520 --> 0:29:16.640 always the thing in riots. There's always like someone who's 0:29:16.720 --> 0:29:20.360 like having a great time. Fucking no one. I read 0:29:20.480 --> 0:29:22.960 like dozens and dozens and dozens of interviews of people 0:29:23.000 --> 0:29:26.000 from people from the Holy Week up Prising. Every single 0:29:26.120 --> 0:29:28.360 person involved in this is having the absolute worst time 0:29:28.400 --> 0:29:31.640 of their lives. That's like on every single side, right 0:29:32.320 --> 0:29:37.600 that everyone is fucking miserable. And you know, but part 0:29:37.680 --> 0:29:39.920 part of what's happening here too is these are these 0:29:40.000 --> 0:29:42.520 these uprisings are also about Vietnam, because you know, a 0:29:42.560 --> 0:29:44.400 lot of these people either have been sent to Vietnam 0:29:44.640 --> 0:29:47.320 or like their families have been sent to Vietnam. Black 0:29:47.320 --> 0:29:50.880 people are dying at an unbelievable rate in Vietnam, and 0:29:51.200 --> 0:29:53.440 these people come back and they're like, well, we're gonna 0:29:53.480 --> 0:29:55.440 fucking die anyway, So I'd rather die. I'd rather go 0:29:55.520 --> 0:29:58.760 out fighting the cops than, you know, than than dying 0:29:58.800 --> 0:30:02.240 in Vietnam. And also, you know what I've been talking 0:30:02.280 --> 0:30:05.120 a lot about kind of like the stipers in the windows, 0:30:05.320 --> 0:30:09.360 but one of the most common ways people get killed. Well, okay, 0:30:09.360 --> 0:30:10.840 probably the most common ways they get trapped into a 0:30:10.840 --> 0:30:12.800 burning building, which is terrible. But one of the other 0:30:12.880 --> 0:30:17.960 really common ways is that these are these are gun fights. 0:30:18.240 --> 0:30:19.960 You know, we kind of saw this in twenty twenty. 0:30:20.200 --> 0:30:22.920 There's a bunch there are like white store owners are 0:30:23.000 --> 0:30:25.400 like popping out of their businesses to take pot shots 0:30:25.600 --> 0:30:28.080 at a protesters, and like they're they're you know, one 0:30:28.080 --> 0:30:29.760 of the people that they interviewed was a guy who 0:30:29.800 --> 0:30:32.719 had been like walking past a store and the guy 0:30:32.760 --> 0:30:35.080 had pulled out a gun and shot him, and he 0:30:35.240 --> 0:30:37.120 had he had managed shop, but the guy next to 0:30:37.200 --> 0:30:38.640 him got shoped, so if he took out a molotov 0:30:38.680 --> 0:30:40.120 and like burned the store down. And this is a 0:30:40.160 --> 0:30:41.920 lot of the kind of dynamics of this, right are 0:30:42.000 --> 0:30:44.960 like it's not just that people are furious. It's not 0:30:45.040 --> 0:30:47.200 just the people sort of you know, like people want 0:30:47.280 --> 0:30:51.200 this world to burn. It's that like they are very 0:30:51.320 --> 0:30:54.040 directly responding to the fact that the like white people 0:30:54.120 --> 0:30:57.480 also fucking lose their minds when this starts happening, and 0:30:57.840 --> 0:31:01.160 you you get this degree of sort of urban conflict 0:31:01.440 --> 0:31:06.880 that kind of you know, we don't really have this 0:31:07.200 --> 0:31:11.560 now no here. Yeah, like like eve, even our riots 0:31:11.680 --> 0:31:15.600 are like largely nonviolent, like people don't shoot it out 0:31:16.080 --> 0:31:18.760 with the cops or each other in the same way 0:31:19.840 --> 0:31:22.360 that like, you know, like like it happens sometimes like 0:31:22.440 --> 0:31:24.400 this is happening fucking all over the country. Like this 0:31:24.520 --> 0:31:27.840 is happening in like like like you know, like like 0:31:27.960 --> 0:31:30.960 fucking small ass cities in the Midwest, there are people 0:31:31.000 --> 0:31:37.760 getting in gunfights, right, you know, and so eventually, Okay, 0:31:37.800 --> 0:31:39.960 So the other very important thing about this that is 0:31:40.080 --> 0:31:44.440 that's really interesting and not marked upon very much is that. Okay, 0:31:44.520 --> 0:31:47.520 So like obviously the police in Chicago go fucking feral, right, 0:31:48.280 --> 0:31:54.640 The National Guard commanders come in and like the general 0:31:54.640 --> 0:31:58.120 of the National Guard goes, okay, you motherfuckers, you're gonna 0:31:58.160 --> 0:32:00.320 kill someone. None of you are allowed to have loaded weapons. 0:32:00.360 --> 0:32:02.480 You're allowed to have loaded weapons. And I mean these guys, 0:32:02.480 --> 0:32:06.200 I'll say, like they have bayonets on their rifles. This 0:32:06.400 --> 0:32:08.640 used to be a thing, like they used bayonets as 0:32:08.640 --> 0:32:11.600 a form of like like a less special weapon. They 0:32:11.760 --> 0:32:14.000 just fucking stab you with a bee and you know, 0:32:14.040 --> 0:32:16.960 they their bayatra order to be covered. And because of this, 0:32:17.040 --> 0:32:19.080 the Guard doesn't actually kill anyonean this dream the sixty 0:32:19.120 --> 0:32:21.240 eight riots, unlike the Sicky seven riots where they fucking 0:32:21.320 --> 0:32:23.920 murdered a bunch of people. And this was a really 0:32:24.000 --> 0:32:27.800 smart decision by the National Guard people because if they 0:32:27.880 --> 0:32:32.720 had started actually shooting into these crowds like this wouldn't 0:32:32.760 --> 0:32:35.840 have been one week of really intense rioting that ends 0:32:35.840 --> 0:32:37.840 with the Civil Rights Sack, which we'll talk about, Well, 0:32:37.880 --> 0:32:39.280 it doesn't end with the Civil Right Sack, but like, 0:32:39.680 --> 0:32:42.080 you know, it could have sort of gets that this 0:32:42.200 --> 0:32:46.680 would have been like apocalyptic on a scale that I 0:32:46.920 --> 0:32:50.479 don't think anyone kind of like has the capacity to imagine. 0:32:50.520 --> 0:32:55.200 But instead they kind of, you know, there's really intense riots, 0:32:55.240 --> 0:32:58.760 they kind of they kind of wind down over the 0:32:58.800 --> 0:33:01.840 course of a couple of months, and like they kind 0:33:01.840 --> 0:33:03.640 of they wind down faster in a lot of ways 0:33:03.680 --> 0:33:07.960 than twenty twenty did. But on the other hand, that 0:33:08.160 --> 0:33:10.960 is not the end of these riots. And the thing 0:33:11.000 --> 0:33:12.520 I want to close this episode on while we're going 0:33:12.560 --> 0:33:14.920 to talk about I feel, okay, le let's talk about 0:33:14.920 --> 0:33:16.920 Civil Rights Act first, because it is a very very 0:33:17.040 --> 0:33:23.200 weird piece of legislation. So like five days in now seven, 0:33:23.480 --> 0:33:27.240 a weekend to the riots, Congress passes the Civil Rights 0:33:27.280 --> 0:33:31.360 Act of nineteen sixty eight. And this is a very, 0:33:31.760 --> 0:33:34.440 very weird piece of legislation. I mean, it's obviously this 0:33:34.480 --> 0:33:38.720 is something that's been like frantically like scrambled out because 0:33:39.160 --> 0:33:41.560 like this, you know, the like there are just straight 0:33:41.640 --> 0:33:45.600 up armed uprisings in a huge portion of the United States, 0:33:45.640 --> 0:33:48.360 and Congress's responses, so they passed the Fair Housing Act. 0:33:49.000 --> 0:33:51.000 That's like, that's probably the most famous part of this bill. 0:33:52.320 --> 0:33:56.560 It is very I mean it it has done. It's 0:33:56.600 --> 0:33:58.680 not like a perfect piece of legislation, but it has 0:33:58.720 --> 0:34:00.560 done a staggering amount of good, right and it is 0:34:01.200 --> 0:34:04.760 in some sense a direct answer to the protesters demands, right, 0:34:04.960 --> 0:34:09.640 like it does improve discrimination of sort of housing. But 0:34:09.960 --> 0:34:12.680 it's also okay, there's a bunch of stuff about the 0:34:12.760 --> 0:34:17.080 Bill of Rights applying to indigenous people that is good, 0:34:17.160 --> 0:34:19.600 but we'll cover that. I don't know, maybe if we 0:34:19.640 --> 0:34:22.200 do an aim occupation episode, we'll talk about that more later. 0:34:22.360 --> 0:34:25.440 That's kind of outside the scope of this one. But 0:34:25.520 --> 0:34:28.480 the other part of it is this absolutely dranged like 0:34:28.600 --> 0:34:35.080 conspiracy thing about like because like so the line you know, 0:34:35.800 --> 0:34:38.040 the line here as it wasn't twenty twenty, So this 0:34:38.120 --> 0:34:40.800 is all being caused by outside agitators. So part of 0:34:40.920 --> 0:34:43.919 this thing is what's known as the Riot Act, which 0:34:44.000 --> 0:34:49.400 is it bans like quote travel and interstate commerce with 0:34:49.480 --> 0:34:52.520 the intent to incite, promote, engage to participate in or 0:34:52.560 --> 0:34:55.400 carry out a riot. It's not used very much, but 0:34:55.840 --> 0:35:01.680 this is like straight up a conspiracy theory. So it's 0:35:01.680 --> 0:35:04.200 a conspiracy theory about what happened in the nineteen sixty 0:35:04.239 --> 0:35:08.120 seven uprising in Cambridge. So like that that uprising, like 0:35:08.200 --> 0:35:10.560 that's the thing that produced Spireau Agnew, who was like 0:35:11.800 --> 0:35:15.040 Nixon's deranged VP, who Nixon picked to be so deranged 0:35:15.080 --> 0:35:17.359 that no one wouldssassinate him because asassinating him would put 0:35:17.360 --> 0:35:21.520 spuiau Agnu in charge. Like Agnew had been like a liberal, 0:35:21.640 --> 0:35:24.400 like he'd been a liberal Republican. But then there were 0:35:24.440 --> 0:35:27.160 these riots in Cambridge sixty eight in sixty seven, and 0:35:27.440 --> 0:35:29.520 the narrative that comes out of it is what happened 0:35:29.600 --> 0:35:32.880 was a Black power leader named H. H. Rat Brown 0:35:33.040 --> 0:35:34.520 came in and gave a speech and then there was 0:35:34.600 --> 0:35:36.280 like riots, right, and this is this is the standard 0:35:36.320 --> 0:35:39.960 line for like seventy years. What actually happened was that 0:35:40.239 --> 0:35:43.160 he gave you know, rap gives Rep. Brown age. Rep. 0:35:43.160 --> 0:35:45.359 Brown gives a very militant speech, right, Like he does 0:35:45.440 --> 0:35:47.479 give a speech telling people to burn a school down, 0:35:47.840 --> 0:35:49.360 like he's saying, you need to like five people. But 0:35:49.400 --> 0:35:52.960 then everyone just goes home, as h Rap Brown is is, 0:35:53.080 --> 0:35:56.480 you know, they're like dispersing this young woman asked to 0:35:56.719 --> 0:35:58.319 be escort at home just and get beat up by 0:35:58.320 --> 0:36:00.600 the police, and so h Rap Brown and thirty people 0:36:00.719 --> 0:36:02.960 like okay, and so they try to go home and 0:36:03.080 --> 0:36:04.640 the police walk up to them and start shooting them 0:36:04.680 --> 0:36:07.640 with shotguns. Ahrap Brown gets hit by a fucking chockgun 0:36:07.680 --> 0:36:10.600 blast and that that is the book. It was after 0:36:10.840 --> 0:36:14.319 that that the rioting started, right, So, yeah, so that's 0:36:14.360 --> 0:36:16.400 what actually happened, But but the memory of it is 0:36:16.440 --> 0:36:17.839 that it was like, oh, like these these like these 0:36:17.880 --> 0:36:20.400 black nationalists came in and they started this riot, and 0:36:20.520 --> 0:36:23.440 like this literally is now law in the US, and 0:36:23.560 --> 0:36:25.160 this is this is very famously. At the end of 0:36:25.160 --> 0:36:26.880 this episode, we're going to talk about who this was 0:36:26.960 --> 0:36:30.040 used against. But before wanting to do that, I need 0:36:30.120 --> 0:36:32.839 to make it clear these riots don't end in sixty eight, right, 0:36:34.360 --> 0:36:35.719 And in fact, I think the one that is the 0:36:35.760 --> 0:36:40.560 most intensive these is York in York, Pennsylvania, which I 0:36:40.600 --> 0:36:42.279 promise you the beginning of this episode we were going 0:36:42.360 --> 0:36:46.600 to do, and that is in nineteen sixty nine. Because again, 0:36:46.719 --> 0:36:49.440 like the conditions that cause these erb and uprisings like 0:36:49.520 --> 0:36:54.120 haven't changed. So you know, like the the immediate flames 0:36:54.160 --> 0:36:56.400 of sort of like of the Holy Week uprising, like 0:36:56.440 --> 0:36:59.480 of this rebellion by MLK sort of you know, eventually 0:36:59.520 --> 0:37:02.759 trickle out, but there's just more of them. So this 0:37:03.200 --> 0:37:05.000 is another one one of the things you come across 0:37:05.040 --> 0:37:07.239 when you research this is that like every single the 0:37:07.320 --> 0:37:11.319 conventional like accepted public narrative, but why these started, They're 0:37:11.360 --> 0:37:15.680 all wrong this one. So it's generally attributed to this 0:37:15.800 --> 0:37:18.279 black kid lying but being set on fire and like 0:37:18.400 --> 0:37:21.960 that did happen, but this kid's like fourteen, right, But 0:37:22.040 --> 0:37:23.759 what actually happened was that there were two black guys 0:37:23.800 --> 0:37:26.400 talking to a black police officer and two members of 0:37:26.520 --> 0:37:30.320 this like white power white supremacist street gang like walked 0:37:30.360 --> 0:37:35.000 up and shot them both. And this kicks off a 0:37:35.200 --> 0:37:38.680 series of shootings, brickings, and fistfights between black and white 0:37:38.680 --> 0:37:40.160 people like all over the city. And this is a 0:37:40.280 --> 0:37:43.440 kind of this is also the other kind of right 0:37:43.480 --> 0:37:45.480 in this period like we don't really have this anymore 0:37:47.280 --> 0:37:49.840 like there, but you know there are places where just 0:37:49.920 --> 0:37:52.680 effectively straight up race wars start. Well, you know, one 0:37:52.680 --> 0:37:54.120 of the things happens here. This happens in a lot 0:37:54.160 --> 0:37:56.600 of cities. They'll just be like a bunch of white 0:37:56.640 --> 0:37:59.239 people in a van driving around shooting at people out 0:37:59.239 --> 0:38:02.920 their windows and we sort you know the like this 0:38:03.000 --> 0:38:04.640 happened in Portland, right, but it was like they were 0:38:04.680 --> 0:38:07.880 shooting paintballs. These guys are just shooting actual guns, like 0:38:08.000 --> 0:38:10.759 out their windows any black people they see on the street. Right, 0:38:11.600 --> 0:38:14.839 there's there's a crowd of like eventually like protest start 0:38:15.360 --> 0:38:17.640 like this, this crowd of like pretty well armed black 0:38:17.680 --> 0:38:20.879 people and this uh and and and like a line 0:38:20.920 --> 0:38:25.040 of cops are facing each other, and you know this 0:38:25.120 --> 0:38:26.520 is one of these There's two sides to the story. 0:38:26.560 --> 0:38:28.359 The cops claim that the crowd just started shooting at them, 0:38:28.640 --> 0:38:31.320 Like everyone in the crowd claims that the cops shot 0:38:31.360 --> 0:38:33.200 at them first, and they started shooting back, And so 0:38:33.280 --> 0:38:35.360 there's just this fucking shootout between the cops and this 0:38:35.520 --> 0:38:37.920 this giant crowd. There are like there are reports of 0:38:38.040 --> 0:38:40.960 cops like just set up on the rooftop of a factory, 0:38:41.080 --> 0:38:43.920 just shooting everyone they can find, like white gangs or 0:38:43.960 --> 0:38:48.680 firebombing black houses. One of the I don't like it. 0:38:48.760 --> 0:38:50.759 It's said that like should be infamous, but like I've 0:38:50.800 --> 0:38:54.680 never fucking seen talked about anywhere is uh a fucking 0:38:54.760 --> 0:38:56.920 police armored truck. There's a bunch of people who have 0:38:57.120 --> 0:38:58.600 come out to their lawn to figure out what the 0:38:58.640 --> 0:39:00.600 fuck is going on, and the police are truck rolls 0:39:00.680 --> 0:39:05.680 up and just starts shooting them, and so, you know, 0:39:05.960 --> 0:39:08.600 people and people start shooting back, and there's a bunch 0:39:08.640 --> 0:39:10.759 of like like people. People eventually get sort of tried 0:39:10.840 --> 0:39:13.840 for this. And one of the you know, one of 0:39:13.880 --> 0:39:15.200 the things people talk about it is like, yeah, there's 0:39:15.239 --> 0:39:18.120 like twenty guys in their houses like having a shootout 0:39:18.120 --> 0:39:19.920 with this armored car because the armored car is just 0:39:20.000 --> 0:39:23.360 fucking starting murdering everyone. And you know, the sort of 0:39:23.400 --> 0:39:25.800 remarkable thing about this, I mean, one of the markable 0:39:25.800 --> 0:39:28.680 things about this is that literally the day before this happens, 0:39:29.120 --> 0:39:31.560 all of these cops had been at a police training 0:39:31.600 --> 0:39:36.200 seminar about the best way to respond to civil unrest. Amazing, 0:39:36.239 --> 0:39:39.920 and the police seminar and they're like, correctly, because this 0:39:40.040 --> 0:39:41.960 is actually, if you are the police, the best way 0:39:41.960 --> 0:39:44.120 to handle one of these sort of uprisings, you know, 0:39:44.160 --> 0:39:45.960 they're told, they're told, and no one certain terms. The 0:39:46.000 --> 0:39:48.840 best way to do this is do not confront the crowd. 0:39:49.520 --> 0:39:53.160 Do not shoot at the crowd like you know, okay, 0:39:53.239 --> 0:39:55.879 like do like containment, but don't go don't like walk 0:39:55.960 --> 0:39:57.680 up and fight them, because that will make people fight 0:39:57.760 --> 0:40:01.040 them back. And then literally the next day they are 0:40:01.120 --> 0:40:04.480 having running shootouts with like the entire black population of 0:40:04.560 --> 0:40:07.200 this town. And you know, like York is a place 0:40:07.239 --> 0:40:09.080 that has had civil rights stupment stuff before this, it's 0:40:09.080 --> 0:40:11.400 also has you know again like it has just literal 0:40:11.560 --> 0:40:14.480 white power, like street gangs who the police are in. 0:40:14.560 --> 0:40:16.520 I mean the police literally just call them the boys 0:40:17.680 --> 0:40:19.719 like that. That's how, that's how, that's how tight these 0:40:19.760 --> 0:40:20.160 people are. 0:40:20.320 --> 0:40:20.480 Right. 0:40:21.640 --> 0:40:23.120 But and this is the thing, you know, one of 0:40:23.160 --> 0:40:24.719 the notes I want to close on is that like 0:40:25.160 --> 0:40:28.560 a lot of the focus and I get why people focus, 0:40:28.600 --> 0:40:30.200 there's a lot of the focus from sort of radical 0:40:30.239 --> 0:40:34.720 accounts of this period is about you know, because these riots, 0:40:34.760 --> 0:40:36.960 these uprisings like these are this is the crucible in 0:40:37.000 --> 0:40:39.560 which sort of black power is forged in and so 0:40:39.800 --> 0:40:41.520 There's a lot of attention paid to sort of like 0:40:41.600 --> 0:40:43.640 black power, like people who are going to become Black 0:40:43.680 --> 0:40:48.000 power leaders and people influenced by these movements like doing 0:40:48.120 --> 0:40:51.720 arm self defense, and that is true and that is important, 0:40:52.280 --> 0:40:57.359 but also just regular ass people are also doing this, right, 0:40:57.480 --> 0:41:01.360 Like the guys, the twenty guys who are having a 0:41:01.400 --> 0:41:05.480 shootout with a police armored vehicle, they are just like 0:41:05.600 --> 0:41:08.080 some of them are Vietnam vets, but like they're just 0:41:08.200 --> 0:41:11.720 they're they're just regular people who saw the police fucking 0:41:11.920 --> 0:41:14.160 roll up like into like roll up on a fucking 0:41:14.200 --> 0:41:17.759 house and start shooting people. There is a sense in 0:41:18.400 --> 0:41:22.440 you know, in this period that the thing that guns 0:41:22.480 --> 0:41:25.480 are for are to protect you from the government, right, 0:41:26.080 --> 0:41:30.520 and people actually believe this, like JFK. You know, one 0:41:31.560 --> 0:41:33.480 there's a really good article in Strange Matters called the 0:41:33.480 --> 0:41:35.839 Double Kind of Resergency that's about this, that talks about 0:41:35.880 --> 0:41:38.319 how JFK literally gives a speech where he talks about 0:41:38.320 --> 0:41:40.719 like again, who is a liberal gives a speech about 0:41:40.719 --> 0:41:42.399 how like, yeah, we need guns to defend it yourself 0:41:42.400 --> 0:41:46.319 against the tyurity of the government, and yeah, like if 0:41:46.360 --> 0:41:48.960 you are a black person in York in nineteen sixty 0:41:49.080 --> 0:41:51.560 nine and you are watching the police from an armored 0:41:51.640 --> 0:41:55.840 vehicle shooting people on their front lawn. The response people 0:41:55.960 --> 0:41:58.600 had was, Okay, we're gonna die here or we're gonna 0:41:58.600 --> 0:42:00.239 die in Vietnam, and so I'm gonna I'm I am 0:42:00.320 --> 0:42:04.960 choosing to die here fighting the cops. And that's I 0:42:05.120 --> 0:42:09.400 think that's important. I think because a lot of you know, 0:42:09.520 --> 0:42:11.480 a lot of what we're going to talk about next. Right, 0:42:11.600 --> 0:42:17.080 are these student radicals. And everyone now looks at these 0:42:17.080 --> 0:42:19.879 student radicals and goes, these people were insane. These people 0:42:19.920 --> 0:42:22.600 were stupid. These people didn't understand what was happening. There 0:42:22.680 --> 0:42:24.719 was no way a revolution was ever going to happen. 0:42:26.760 --> 0:42:30.120 And they're wrong. Those people are fucking wrong. What these 0:42:30.160 --> 0:42:34.120 people were watching, right, They were watching this. They were 0:42:34.200 --> 0:42:38.480 watching hundreds of cities going into open revolt. They were 0:42:38.520 --> 0:42:40.759 watching people having shootouts with the cops. They were watching 0:42:40.760 --> 0:42:43.239 and people people tended not to shoot the national Guard 0:42:43.239 --> 0:42:45.440 because people had enough military experience to realize that if 0:42:45.480 --> 0:42:47.520 you try to shoot the national Guard, you're not gonna 0:42:47.520 --> 0:42:49.799 win because they have machine guns and stuff. But people 0:42:49.920 --> 0:42:51.840 did it still right there, there are still numbers of 0:42:51.880 --> 0:42:56.000 this that they are watching. They're watching armed up risings 0:42:56.239 --> 0:42:59.160 in basically every every major in mind not even major, 0:42:59.239 --> 0:43:02.920 every like minor American city has one of these. And 0:43:03.320 --> 0:43:06.800 these people assume that this is the revolution and that 0:43:07.120 --> 0:43:08.600 you know, like that this is this is the opening 0:43:08.640 --> 0:43:10.960 stage of the revolution, that it's coming, and they weren't 0:43:11.560 --> 0:43:15.160 they weren't wrong to think that, like it didn't happen. 0:43:16.719 --> 0:43:19.319 But it's not that these people, like, you know, it's 0:43:19.360 --> 0:43:21.480 not that these people were sort of nive or foolish. 0:43:21.960 --> 0:43:25.560 It was they they had the same rational reaction to 0:43:25.640 --> 0:43:27.959 what they were seeing that the f behind the Nixton 0:43:27.960 --> 0:43:32.279 administration did. And I think that's the place I'm going 0:43:32.320 --> 0:43:33.520 to close. So I think the next one of these 0:43:33.560 --> 0:43:36.480 episodes is going to be about the Columbia student occupations. 0:43:37.160 --> 0:43:40.400 But the one after that, well, I m might be 0:43:40.440 --> 0:43:42.160 basically staying there, but we are eventually going to get 0:43:42.200 --> 0:43:44.600 to the DNC all part. And I promised you the 0:43:46.280 --> 0:43:47.920 a thing about the people who were charged under the 0:43:48.000 --> 0:43:50.360 Riot Act. Yeah, so the people who are going to 0:43:50.440 --> 0:43:52.280 the most videos, people who are going to be charged 0:43:52.320 --> 0:43:55.280 with this like interstate riot shit or the Chicago seven 0:43:55.760 --> 0:43:59.680 seven people arrested at the Democratic National Convention. So, uh, 0:44:00.080 --> 0:44:03.360 when we come back in however long it takes to 0:44:03.520 --> 0:44:05.160 do the rest of the ninety six yea, so for 0:44:05.280 --> 0:44:07.200 you do. Before we get to that, we will come 0:44:07.280 --> 0:44:11.960 back to this Civil Rights Act fucking over a bunch 0:44:11.960 --> 0:44:12.720 of people's lives. 0:44:13.200 --> 0:44:29.400 I'm going to look forward to that. Hi everyone, and 0:44:29.520 --> 0:44:32.160 welcome to the podcast. It could happen here. It's a 0:44:32.200 --> 0:44:35.040 podcast about the world falling apart and people putting it 0:44:35.120 --> 0:44:37.399 back together. Today we've got a little bit of both. 0:44:37.760 --> 0:44:40.279 I'm joined again by Mick and Rose. This time we'll 0:44:40.320 --> 0:44:43.959 be discussing the treatment of migrants inside the European Union, 0:44:44.040 --> 0:44:46.759 and specifically the treatment of migrants by the government of 0:44:46.800 --> 0:44:49.680 the Netherlands in a place called ter Apple. Welcome to 0:44:49.719 --> 0:44:51.560 the show, guys. Thanks thanks for joining us. 0:44:51.960 --> 0:44:54.600 Thanks good to be back, Thanks for having us. 0:44:54.840 --> 0:44:57.600 Yeah, thank you. It's good to have you. I wonder 0:44:57.600 --> 0:44:59.040 if you could beg game. We were talking about this 0:44:59.120 --> 0:45:02.880 before you record it, and I think it's very obviously 0:45:03.160 --> 0:45:05.920 the migration laws in Europe are very different, but so 0:45:06.960 --> 0:45:11.560 the situations with regard to shelter and just like facilities, 0:45:11.719 --> 0:45:13.560 with the US being so big, we have them dotted 0:45:13.600 --> 0:45:16.800 all over the place. So you were just explaining that 0:45:16.920 --> 0:45:19.360 this is a place where anyone who wants to register 0:45:19.480 --> 0:45:21.120 for asylum in the Netherlands has to go. 0:45:21.360 --> 0:45:25.719 Is that right? Yeah, so that's almost entirely right. So 0:45:25.840 --> 0:45:27.879 everyone who arrives in the nets and wants to ask 0:45:27.920 --> 0:45:31.560 for asylum has to go to this village all the 0:45:31.640 --> 0:45:35.200 way on the northeastern border with Germany, and that's where 0:45:35.280 --> 0:45:38.640 the only registration center is for most asylum seekers. I 0:45:38.680 --> 0:45:42.200 believe only people who do family reunification can go somewhere else. 0:45:42.920 --> 0:45:46.200 But yeah, we have like one registration center for the 0:45:46.400 --> 0:45:51.279 entire country. And yeah, yeah, I mean we have a 0:45:51.400 --> 0:45:56.440 tiny country, but it still became a huge bubblewreck because 0:45:56.480 --> 0:45:57.439 it was the only one. 0:45:57.680 --> 0:46:02.319 So it didn't work out that well apparently, and that's 0:46:02.360 --> 0:46:04.719 why we're talking about it, right, So just so people 0:46:04.800 --> 0:46:07.440 understand where these people are in their asylum journey, Like 0:46:07.920 --> 0:46:11.640 they've entered the EU, right, and then they've traveled to 0:46:11.719 --> 0:46:13.320 the Netlands, which is a country where they want to 0:46:13.360 --> 0:46:14.360 claim asylum. 0:46:14.440 --> 0:46:18.000 Is that right? Yeah, exactly, So basically they arrived at 0:46:18.000 --> 0:46:23.040 their final destination. So most people that I met inter 0:46:23.200 --> 0:46:27.200 Apple had already been traveling for weeks, months, sometimes years, 0:46:27.800 --> 0:46:30.160 depending on how much money and luck they had. Usually 0:46:30.760 --> 0:46:34.439 so Yeah, they would have either crossed the Mediterranean Sea 0:46:34.840 --> 0:46:39.399 or gotten into Europe through Turkey or Belarus, and then 0:46:39.440 --> 0:46:41.600 they would have crossed many many borders and many many 0:46:41.640 --> 0:46:45.120 border guards and fences yep. And they would have gotten 0:46:45.200 --> 0:46:48.480 stuck in places for weeks or months before they could 0:46:48.560 --> 0:46:52.279 move on again. Yeah. And people who would actually go 0:46:52.440 --> 0:46:55.680 to the registration center in the Netherlands, that means they 0:46:55.800 --> 0:46:58.840 wanted to ask for asylum there and probably stay there. 0:46:59.160 --> 0:47:01.640 Right, that would be their country of residents going forward. 0:47:02.520 --> 0:47:05.560 So can you explain I mean, I'm looking at pictures 0:47:05.600 --> 0:47:08.080 of it right now. It's not hard if you if 0:47:08.080 --> 0:47:09.680 you want to look at pictures, you can spell it 0:47:09.800 --> 0:47:13.560 t er A p e L. But can you explain 0:47:13.600 --> 0:47:17.680 the condition said, because looking at it, it's atrocious, like 0:47:17.760 --> 0:47:19.120 from the pictures I can see. 0:47:20.120 --> 0:47:22.680 Yeah, I mean I saw many pictures before I went 0:47:22.719 --> 0:47:26.759 there myself. It's basically just a tenth camp, So I 0:47:26.840 --> 0:47:30.200 mean it's a it's a shelter, right, So it's like 0:47:30.440 --> 0:47:33.239 it used to be an army base. It can hold 0:47:33.320 --> 0:47:36.600 two thousand people. It has loads of like small housing 0:47:36.760 --> 0:47:38.800 units where people live. It has like a lot of 0:47:38.880 --> 0:47:43.000 offices for all the registration steps, and like the yeah, 0:47:43.040 --> 0:47:47.560 the immigration service, the police, the shelter organization like blah blah, blah, 0:47:47.560 --> 0:47:51.040 bah blah. But so like one and a half year ago, 0:47:51.680 --> 0:47:53.840 there was a lack of shelter in the whole country, 0:47:53.920 --> 0:47:58.080 but specifically also went there Apple and yeah, somehow the 0:47:58.160 --> 0:48:01.680 authorities decided that the solution would be to just leave 0:48:01.760 --> 0:48:04.760 people on the field that was inside of the registration 0:48:05.040 --> 0:48:07.800 in front of the registration center, and so there was 0:48:07.960 --> 0:48:13.239 just an informal camp, like people were sleeping outside for 0:48:13.400 --> 0:48:16.759 weeks or months, not even intense, but they would have 0:48:16.880 --> 0:48:20.319 like huge kind of banners or tarps that would kind 0:48:20.360 --> 0:48:23.040 of provide some shade. So it was like midsummer. It 0:48:23.120 --> 0:48:26.359 was a very dry summer, which for us was crazy lucky. 0:48:28.239 --> 0:48:34.080 The climate activists were not happy, but we were happy. Yeah. 0:48:34.239 --> 0:48:37.640 So yeah, people were just like laying on the ground 0:48:38.200 --> 0:48:41.600 and that was Yeah, there were some that water that 0:48:41.719 --> 0:48:45.680 were like dixies for toilets that were obviously gross, and 0:48:45.800 --> 0:48:47.719 so yeah, what you would see if you google it, 0:48:47.760 --> 0:48:50.600 you just see people lying on the field and just 0:48:50.880 --> 0:48:54.520 being there for extended periods of time. But when I 0:48:54.640 --> 0:48:56.719 personally went there the first time, it was kind of 0:48:56.800 --> 0:48:59.600 worse than what I expected. It to be because I 0:48:59.680 --> 0:49:03.840 think the level of neglect was not visible on photo 0:49:04.239 --> 0:49:07.080 or on video. So people would come to us and 0:49:07.160 --> 0:49:09.800 tell us that they had show us really big wounds 0:49:09.880 --> 0:49:13.000 that were infected, or people would come and tell us like, hey, 0:49:13.200 --> 0:49:14.840 I had a heart attack a few weeks ago, I 0:49:15.000 --> 0:49:19.120 need this medication, or I have diabetes or whatever. So 0:49:19.760 --> 0:49:24.759 there was just this dystopian situation of this enormous facility 0:49:24.960 --> 0:49:27.480 that can hold thousands of people and then a big 0:49:27.560 --> 0:49:31.359 fence around it, and then people with clearly like very 0:49:31.440 --> 0:49:33.799 serious medical conditions just standing in front of the gate 0:49:34.160 --> 0:49:38.360 and the security guards just being like now maybe like 0:49:39.239 --> 0:49:41.520 a staff member will show up today, maybe not, but 0:49:41.719 --> 0:49:45.960 like we don't care how dangerous situation is or something. Yeah, 0:49:46.160 --> 0:49:48.960 just the fact that there was like no proper place 0:49:49.080 --> 0:49:53.640 to wash, there were no toilets. The food was like, yeah, 0:49:53.719 --> 0:49:57.560 I worked in camps across the borders, across European borders, 0:49:57.920 --> 0:50:00.880 and I've seen a lot of like horrible food. But 0:50:01.160 --> 0:50:05.120 like in their Apple, they just decided to rent a Yeah, 0:50:05.200 --> 0:50:08.800 like if you have like a party or something, you 0:50:08.920 --> 0:50:11.360 would just rent this place that will just sell fries. 0:50:11.840 --> 0:50:14.440 So they were just giving fries to people like every 0:50:14.520 --> 0:50:20.960 single day Jesus. Yeah, just I mean just just pre 0:50:21.080 --> 0:50:23.239 packed food from the supermarket would be more healthy than 0:50:23.360 --> 0:50:27.000 just fries every day for a month, right, Yeah, So 0:50:27.200 --> 0:50:30.600 just a level of like, yeah, neglect, lack of care. 0:50:32.719 --> 0:50:35.200 It was just even even more than what you can 0:50:35.640 --> 0:50:36.600 see on the pictures. 0:50:37.320 --> 0:50:41.640 Yeah, and like a complete like lack of like failure 0:50:41.680 --> 0:50:44.000 of the government to address their basic rights and needs. 0:50:44.440 --> 0:50:48.200 And how long can people expect to spend in that situation? Then, 0:50:48.320 --> 0:50:49.960 like they have to they have to go there, right, 0:50:50.040 --> 0:50:52.520 like if they want the asylum, they have to go there. 0:50:53.560 --> 0:50:56.080 Yeah, so like the the irony wasn't the only way 0:50:56.120 --> 0:50:58.960 to get shelter was to be there and then be 0:50:59.120 --> 0:51:02.920 without shelter or you wouldn't know how long like right, Yeah, 0:51:02.960 --> 0:51:05.279 I mean sometimes it was hours, especially for their women 0:51:05.360 --> 0:51:07.799 and children. It was usually they would usually be let 0:51:07.840 --> 0:51:12.920 in in the evening, but yeah, men definitely days sometimes 0:51:12.960 --> 0:51:15.880 if they were not lucky, weeks, And it was just 0:51:15.960 --> 0:51:21.560 also so like unclear, so people would just not get 0:51:21.600 --> 0:51:24.600 any information. They would be there and then all of 0:51:24.640 --> 0:51:27.720 a sudden hear someone shout and all start running towards 0:51:27.840 --> 0:51:29.800 where the shout came from because maybe they would be 0:51:29.920 --> 0:51:33.279 let in or yeah, I don't know, like guards would 0:51:33.320 --> 0:51:35.279 just shout at them in Dutch and then be like 0:51:35.360 --> 0:51:37.560 why don't you understand me? Or like it was all 0:51:37.719 --> 0:51:42.480 just like consciously like it's so unnecessarily chaotic and therefore 0:51:42.520 --> 0:51:46.840 also like people pushing around police getting like intimidating and 0:51:47.000 --> 0:51:53.680 violent and yeah, just this very chaotic and disrespectful approach 0:51:53.840 --> 0:51:54.680 to people. 0:51:55.680 --> 0:51:59.680 Yeah, it's worryingly similar to what we see in open 0:51:59.719 --> 0:52:03.160 aired tension sites here, Like they'll do it. People are 0:52:03.440 --> 0:52:06.399 outside there too, they have an exce no shelter there too. 0:52:07.120 --> 0:52:10.759 We volunteers make the food, so it's better than that. Yeah, 0:52:10.760 --> 0:52:12.279 they'll turn up in a bus, like I've seen them 0:52:12.320 --> 0:52:14.480 turn up in a bus and just shout run and 0:52:14.680 --> 0:52:18.000 like if you understand English, you run. If you don't 0:52:18.080 --> 0:52:20.279 stand English, you see everyone else running, so you run. 0:52:20.880 --> 0:52:22.799 And then they can only take thirty people, and you've 0:52:22.840 --> 0:52:25.400 now had more than one hundred people come stampeding across, 0:52:25.480 --> 0:52:29.160 like just if you've got to grab their bags and everything, 0:52:29.320 --> 0:52:34.279 and it's yeah, completely unnecessarily chaotic and cruel. And then 0:52:34.840 --> 0:52:37.360 once they let in, what can they expect from that? 0:52:37.440 --> 0:52:39.520 They're saying it like a barracks or something. While there 0:52:39.640 --> 0:52:40.560 while they're processed. 0:52:42.320 --> 0:52:45.400 Yeah, so it was very very chaotic. I think it 0:52:45.480 --> 0:52:48.600 took them like almost a year to actually process everyone, 0:52:48.719 --> 0:52:52.279 because they would just if a municipality would say like, oh, 0:52:52.320 --> 0:52:54.080 I have space for a hundred people, they would just 0:52:54.200 --> 0:52:57.040 randomly put one hundred people in the bus and drop 0:52:57.120 --> 0:52:59.920 them there, and then a year later it would run 0:53:00.160 --> 0:53:03.799 that they were never properly registered or something. But yeah, 0:53:03.840 --> 0:53:07.640 I think like there was a night shelter not so 0:53:07.840 --> 0:53:10.759 far away from their apple, so that was always like 0:53:11.080 --> 0:53:12.960 late in the evening, there would still be a few 0:53:13.000 --> 0:53:15.040 buses going to that night shelter. That was just a 0:53:15.120 --> 0:53:18.920 big sports hall I think, full of beds, bunk beds 0:53:19.239 --> 0:53:23.239 or yeah, like stretchers, and yeah, no privacy, just like 0:53:23.360 --> 0:53:26.680 hundreds of people in one room. The lights would stay 0:53:26.719 --> 0:53:29.040 on all night for safety reasons. But of course that's 0:53:29.080 --> 0:53:30.160 also very cruel too. 0:53:30.760 --> 0:53:30.960 Yeah. 0:53:31.080 --> 0:53:34.759 Yeah, and then if people would get registered, they would 0:53:34.840 --> 0:53:39.319 be usually sent to like a temporary emergency shelter because 0:53:39.320 --> 0:53:43.440 there was such a huge shortage of regular shelters. So 0:53:43.600 --> 0:53:46.880 some people were living in sports halls without much privacy 0:53:47.040 --> 0:53:49.439 for like half year or a year or some people 0:53:49.480 --> 0:53:51.000 are still there, to be honest. 0:53:51.120 --> 0:53:56.760 Wow, Yeah, that's crazy. It's atrocious, talking of atrocious. Unfortunately, 0:53:56.800 --> 0:53:57.600 we have to break the ad. 0:53:58.680 --> 0:53:59.120 We'll do that. 0:54:10.280 --> 0:54:12.480 Okay, we're back. Hope you do this out of it, 0:54:13.000 --> 0:54:17.400 and we're talking about ter Apple, this, I guess migrant 0:54:17.440 --> 0:54:20.640 reception registration center in the Netherlands. One thing I saw 0:54:21.400 --> 0:54:23.480 when I was sort of doing some reading about this 0:54:23.640 --> 0:54:28.239 recently was that babies born TOEP mothers or people in 0:54:28.360 --> 0:54:31.560 the te Apple asylum center are seven times more likely 0:54:31.680 --> 0:54:36.279 to die in or around perfect That is shocking. Yeah, 0:54:36.880 --> 0:54:39.279 so is there just no access to medical care of 0:54:39.320 --> 0:54:42.280 people like delivering babies in this asylum center. 0:54:44.000 --> 0:54:48.239 Well, I think the excuse of the government is that 0:54:48.360 --> 0:54:52.000 they didn't have proper care during the pregnancy because they 0:54:52.040 --> 0:54:55.040 were still traveling. Of course that is often the case, 0:54:55.200 --> 0:55:02.439 Like yeah, yeah, but still it's insanely high. Seven times 0:55:02.520 --> 0:55:08.960 more people dying, and especially when this super chaotic situation occurred, Like, yeah, 0:55:09.000 --> 0:55:11.239 we would have people in the field that we were 0:55:11.600 --> 0:55:16.160 suspecting they were getting like hypothermia or you know, some 0:55:16.360 --> 0:55:20.360 sort of yeah, strong physical reaction to the tough conditions 0:55:20.400 --> 0:55:23.640 they were facing. But they could be dropped in the 0:55:23.760 --> 0:55:26.680 night shelter, picked out again in the morning, being back 0:55:26.760 --> 0:55:29.399 on the field, staying on the field for a few nights, 0:55:29.560 --> 0:55:32.040 again going for one night to a night shelter, being 0:55:32.080 --> 0:55:35.360 transferred to an emergency camp for two days, being transferred 0:55:35.400 --> 0:55:38.120 to another emergency camp for three days. And during this 0:55:38.320 --> 0:55:43.440 time there is no coherence medical care, right, And of 0:55:43.520 --> 0:55:45.600 course it would usually be a little bit better for 0:55:46.000 --> 0:55:48.239 women and especially pregnant women, so they would try to 0:55:48.440 --> 0:55:50.440 put them in a more stable place and like not 0:55:50.560 --> 0:55:54.799 move them around that much, but trying is yeah, they 0:55:54.840 --> 0:55:58.839 would not always actually manage to do that, So they've 0:55:58.960 --> 0:56:02.520 definitely also been comple planes of yeah, of people and 0:56:02.680 --> 0:56:06.799 especially like pregnant pregnant women still being forced to move 0:56:06.880 --> 0:56:09.560 to a different camp, like really close to the data 0:56:09.680 --> 0:56:13.920 the baby was expected to come, and yeah, that definitely 0:56:14.000 --> 0:56:16.640 doesn't help. So, I mean, the care on the field 0:56:16.760 --> 0:56:20.520 was absolutely horrendous. I think women were usually not exposed 0:56:20.560 --> 0:56:23.200 to it that much because we do. Yeah, there's also 0:56:23.280 --> 0:56:28.120 this weird sexism in migration that men can always suffer more, 0:56:29.040 --> 0:56:32.280 which is not always true, especially if you're not filtering 0:56:32.360 --> 0:56:35.880 out the really thick men either, because I was definitely 0:56:35.960 --> 0:56:37.520 a lot more healthy than a lot of the men 0:56:37.600 --> 0:56:40.319 walking around there. But yeah, at least in the case 0:56:40.360 --> 0:56:43.000 of like pregnant women, I think they would be moved 0:56:43.000 --> 0:56:46.160 out pretty quickly. But yeah, it was chaotic. And then 0:56:46.200 --> 0:56:48.640 also you have like, of course you have a lot 0:56:48.640 --> 0:56:51.719 of people who speak Arabic or Farsi or digit Yeah, 0:56:51.719 --> 0:56:54.160 but you also have people who speak on a link 0:56:54.320 --> 0:56:57.800 language that is only spoken in a province of a country. 0:56:58.000 --> 0:56:59.959 You know, Like it's very hard to get proper trends 0:57:00.440 --> 0:57:02.959 for like all the possible languages of people that apply 0:57:03.040 --> 0:57:06.759 for asylum. Yeah, but yeah, I mean I definitely think 0:57:07.160 --> 0:57:12.399 the conditions, especially when when there were so many people 0:57:12.480 --> 0:57:15.080 living in really bad emergency shelters or even on the streets, 0:57:15.680 --> 0:57:18.400 did not help babies at all. 0:57:19.240 --> 0:57:24.800 Yeah, oh, anyone, I guess no. Can you explained then, 0:57:24.920 --> 0:57:28.080 like this situation arose about a year ago, I think, right, 0:57:28.800 --> 0:57:30.600 so you are part of a group of people that 0:57:30.720 --> 0:57:35.240 were able to respond to help, like at least, I 0:57:35.320 --> 0:57:38.400 guess make it a little bit less terrible. Can you 0:57:38.480 --> 0:57:41.160 explain a little bit about the group, about what you're 0:57:41.200 --> 0:57:41.680 able to do. 0:57:42.680 --> 0:57:45.720 Yeah, so, I mean we just so, I was already 0:57:46.480 --> 0:57:48.640 a part of my grades, which is an organization that 0:57:49.760 --> 0:57:53.240 like I personally worked on the borders, like providing food 0:57:53.360 --> 0:57:55.680 and clothes and stuff like that to people on the move, 0:57:56.360 --> 0:57:59.120 and Migrades is more like also more an activist organizations 0:57:59.200 --> 0:58:02.480 or organizing protest or campaigns and stuff like that. So 0:58:02.640 --> 0:58:05.080 we just like went to see what was going on, 0:58:05.880 --> 0:58:08.480 and then we very quickly, yeah, realized that it was 0:58:08.520 --> 0:58:10.760 worse than it looked, but also that there were so 0:58:10.880 --> 0:58:12.680 many basic things that were not being done by the 0:58:12.720 --> 0:58:16.160 government that we were actually able to do. So yeah, 0:58:16.200 --> 0:58:18.360 we just asked around a lot for hours and hours, 0:58:18.440 --> 0:58:21.040 like what do you need, what's going on? What is missing? 0:58:21.360 --> 0:58:24.840 Like what is your primary issue at this moment, And 0:58:25.000 --> 0:58:26.760 one of the main things people were saying was like 0:58:26.880 --> 0:58:31.400 the food is fucking driving them and saying like yeah, yeah, 0:58:31.680 --> 0:58:34.880 just the lack of flavor, but also just the lack 0:58:34.960 --> 0:58:38.360 of health and yeah, people would just get like diarrhea 0:58:38.440 --> 0:58:40.920 and stuff. And then it turned out, of course that 0:58:40.960 --> 0:58:44.160 there were already some people around that wanted to do stuff, 0:58:44.240 --> 0:58:46.400 so we just had a big call and then it 0:58:46.520 --> 0:58:49.000 turned out that there was like this squads where they 0:58:49.040 --> 0:58:50.680 had a big kitchen and they were like, yeah, of 0:58:50.720 --> 0:58:52.840 course you can cook here. And then there was another 0:58:53.000 --> 0:58:56.080 like former squads where they also had a big soup kitchen. 0:58:56.520 --> 0:58:58.240 And then I was like, okay, this is like it 0:58:58.400 --> 0:59:00.680 was a big like media store was a big thing 0:59:00.800 --> 0:59:04.440 for the Netherlands, that this was happening because we have 0:59:04.600 --> 0:59:08.760 this like, yeah, idea that we are perfectly organized and 0:59:08.880 --> 0:59:12.280 blah blah blah, and that like all the bad things 0:59:12.320 --> 0:59:14.840 happen on the border is still like at the like 0:59:15.080 --> 0:59:18.600 with a very clear role of our politicians, but like somehow, yeah, 0:59:18.680 --> 0:59:21.120 there's not much talk about that. So it was it 0:59:21.280 --> 0:59:23.920 was like on the front page every single day for weeks. 0:59:24.480 --> 0:59:26.960 So I thought, yeah, like because the people that were 0:59:26.960 --> 0:59:29.320 already trying to do something, they were like how can 0:59:29.400 --> 0:59:32.200 we get enough money for the groceries and how can 0:59:32.240 --> 0:59:35.920 we get volunteers? And then yeah, I was like we'll manage. 0:59:38.360 --> 0:59:40.120 If there's one thing I learned from the border, it's 0:59:40.160 --> 0:59:42.520 like if you start doing something, people will will come 0:59:42.640 --> 0:59:47.160 and join. Yeah, and we first said like, okay, let's 0:59:47.200 --> 0:59:49.040 just cook two times a week, you know, one time 0:59:49.120 --> 0:59:50.960 in the squad and another time in the other squad, 0:59:50.960 --> 0:59:53.840 and then it's like super doable, blah blah blah. And 0:59:53.920 --> 0:59:58.160 then basically we started and it's yeah, there was just 0:59:58.240 --> 1:00:03.240 no way back. So yeah, we said like Okay, let's 1:00:03.280 --> 1:00:06.760 hand out food twice, and then yeah, I just went 1:00:07.000 --> 1:00:10.320 like day and nights being on the field, and quite 1:00:10.400 --> 1:00:13.040 quickly we moved to food distribution every day because there 1:00:13.040 --> 1:00:15.160 were so many people in the area that wanted to cook. 1:00:16.200 --> 1:00:18.880 There was like an Islamic group that were churches that 1:00:19.000 --> 1:00:22.320 were like, yeah, from all over the country. People were 1:00:22.400 --> 1:00:25.440 coming into action, and yeah, so first we did food 1:00:26.520 --> 1:00:28.480 kind of because people really wanted it, but also kind 1:00:28.520 --> 1:00:30.400 of because we just knew how to do it because 1:00:30.400 --> 1:00:32.000 we had some people who had a big kitchen and 1:00:32.080 --> 1:00:35.720 some experience cooking in large quantities. And then quickly it 1:00:35.800 --> 1:00:38.920 became like colder and rainy as well, so we started 1:00:38.920 --> 1:00:42.960 to move towards leaving bags and ponchos and just yeah, 1:00:43.240 --> 1:00:47.480 big distributions. And then we also started to hand out tents, 1:00:48.240 --> 1:00:50.680 and then we got into a whole fight with the 1:00:50.800 --> 1:00:54.000 municipality and the police because they were constantly like confiscating 1:00:54.080 --> 1:00:58.120 the tents. Yeah, but yeah, we just started with what 1:00:58.280 --> 1:01:01.080 we thought would be feasible to do, I guess, and 1:01:01.160 --> 1:01:05.960 then it kind of escalated really quickly to yeah, us 1:01:06.080 --> 1:01:08.720 being kind of responsible for a lot of basic needs 1:01:08.800 --> 1:01:11.440 of everyone on the field, and also us monitoring, like 1:01:12.040 --> 1:01:15.640 informing journalists because like the government would be like, oh, no, 1:01:15.760 --> 1:01:17.920 there's nobody there on the field right now, and then 1:01:17.960 --> 1:01:18.440 we would. 1:01:18.280 --> 1:01:18.520 Just like. 1:01:20.360 --> 1:01:26.080 Five minutes, I'd be like no one. Yeah. So we 1:01:26.160 --> 1:01:29.800 also quite quickly like became a big part of the 1:01:29.840 --> 1:01:32.920 whole political debate where like the government was saying one 1:01:32.960 --> 1:01:35.520 thing and we were saying another, and like they were 1:01:35.560 --> 1:01:37.640 all all the time trying to pretend that nothing was 1:01:37.680 --> 1:01:40.480 wrong and everything was fine, and yeah. 1:01:41.040 --> 1:01:44.280 Yeah, I think it's it's such a common it's sadly 1:01:44.320 --> 1:01:46.880 a common experience, right, It's being like a the government 1:01:47.040 --> 1:01:49.360 is lying to you, Like you can see this with 1:01:49.520 --> 1:01:52.600 your eyes that you're being lied to, and be like 1:01:53.080 --> 1:01:55.040 they're just going to leave these people if we don't 1:01:55.080 --> 1:01:58.560 do certain thing, no one will. Something that we've had here, 1:01:59.440 --> 1:02:02.080 we see it, to say, every border in Europe more 1:02:02.160 --> 1:02:06.160 or less, right, Like it's just a consequence of the 1:02:06.240 --> 1:02:10.680 way that like neoliberal capitalism has decided to deal with migration, 1:02:10.800 --> 1:02:13.000 which is to make to be as cruel as possible 1:02:13.480 --> 1:02:15.360 and to make it as hard as possible for people. 1:02:16.920 --> 1:02:20.200 I wonder, like you've been organizing there, at least in 1:02:20.280 --> 1:02:23.000 this place for like a year. I think I want 1:02:23.040 --> 1:02:25.960 this to be instructive for people, because, like, we've been 1:02:26.080 --> 1:02:28.680 organizing here too, and we've learned a lot. Are there 1:02:28.760 --> 1:02:31.000 things that you've learned that you think other people could 1:02:31.000 --> 1:02:34.160 take from the organizing or or like and make you 1:02:34.280 --> 1:02:38.760 you're also a part of organizing in your area. If 1:02:38.800 --> 1:02:41.200 either of you have things that you've learned about specifically 1:02:41.280 --> 1:02:44.440 organizing to help migrants, I'd love to hear them. 1:02:45.120 --> 1:02:48.760 Oh, so many things. I'm probably gonna forget some of 1:02:48.840 --> 1:02:51.360 the things I've learned. Well. I think one thing that 1:02:51.400 --> 1:02:53.280 I've learned and that I've learned over and over and 1:02:53.360 --> 1:02:57.560 over again, is that if you start doing something, you 1:02:57.640 --> 1:03:00.480 will find people who will join. And I think that's 1:03:00.560 --> 1:03:02.520 one of the scary things when you see a gigantic 1:03:02.600 --> 1:03:04.520 problem and even if you know a concrete thing that 1:03:04.600 --> 1:03:07.320 you can do about it, it's still Yeah, there is 1:03:07.400 --> 1:03:08.960 a lot of things that you cannot do as a 1:03:09.040 --> 1:03:12.480 single human being. But I found this true in many 1:03:12.560 --> 1:03:16.400 countries across the world, that if you just start and 1:03:16.560 --> 1:03:20.120 you say that you're doing it, people will actually join. 1:03:21.080 --> 1:03:25.000 And I found that especially like Painful in their Apple 1:03:25.120 --> 1:03:27.320 that we were on this field and there had been 1:03:27.440 --> 1:03:31.000 so much media attention and there was nobody there, Like 1:03:31.200 --> 1:03:34.080 everyone was speaking about it and no one was doing anything, 1:03:34.880 --> 1:03:37.720 and it was kind of depressing to witness that and 1:03:37.840 --> 1:03:41.520 to feel that nobody it felt like nobody cared. Right, 1:03:42.640 --> 1:03:44.960 But as soon as we just started with this small 1:03:45.040 --> 1:03:48.000 thing like Okay, you can donate to groceries, you can 1:03:48.080 --> 1:03:50.520 come help cook, you can come help do the dishes, 1:03:50.640 --> 1:03:53.640 like concrete things that you can do, yeah, we were 1:03:53.760 --> 1:03:55.800 like I think we got like a thousand people who 1:03:55.840 --> 1:03:58.439 wanted to volunteer with us, which was like way too much. 1:03:58.560 --> 1:04:00.320 We never got back to all of them because it 1:04:00.440 --> 1:04:04.920 was just insane. We did not need thousand people to 1:04:05.000 --> 1:04:09.480 cook food for two hundred people, so like, yeah, but 1:04:09.600 --> 1:04:12.520 we just started, and I think, yeah, I think that 1:04:12.720 --> 1:04:15.920 was really helpful, or I think that can be very 1:04:15.960 --> 1:04:19.280 helpful if you're thinking about doing something like start small, 1:04:19.320 --> 1:04:23.440 but don't be afraid that it will not kind of 1:04:23.680 --> 1:04:27.160 grow because people will join and people will make it 1:04:27.240 --> 1:04:32.040 into something bigger. Also a great lesson that I learned, Well, 1:04:32.080 --> 1:04:35.400 it's very basic and understandable actually, but like try to 1:04:35.560 --> 1:04:39.720 make Yeah, my experience is usually with like a mass distribution, 1:04:39.920 --> 1:04:43.000 so you have hundreds of people, you have food or 1:04:43.040 --> 1:04:46.320 blankets or whatever something that people really need. And it's 1:04:46.360 --> 1:04:50.400 like so important to really plan the distribution well and 1:04:50.520 --> 1:04:54.640 to really inform and discuss with people, because that's one 1:04:54.680 --> 1:04:57.320 thing that also happened in their Apple that at some 1:04:57.400 --> 1:05:00.160 point people were just dumping shit on the field. They 1:05:00.160 --> 1:05:03.480 were actually causing fights and causing tensions between people because 1:05:03.520 --> 1:05:06.000 you cannot you kind of show but five sleeping bags 1:05:06.040 --> 1:05:08.320 when hundreds of people are in desperate need of a 1:05:08.360 --> 1:05:11.800 sleeping back. You know, like that's kind of inhumane. And 1:05:12.800 --> 1:05:15.400 I get that people have good intentions, and I get 1:05:15.440 --> 1:05:18.040 that it could potentially mean that five people are less cold, 1:05:18.840 --> 1:05:22.880 but like, yeah, some sort of shelter is a basic necessity, 1:05:22.960 --> 1:05:24.600 so you cannot give that to a few and not 1:05:24.720 --> 1:05:29.320 to others. So yeah, I think like, like the first 1:05:29.360 --> 1:05:31.840 time we did the distribution into Apple, I was kind 1:05:31.880 --> 1:05:34.800 of scared because people were spreading, like there was a 1:05:34.880 --> 1:05:37.040 lot of rumor about like, oh, it's so violent and 1:05:37.120 --> 1:05:41.400 these people are like blah blah blah, and and of 1:05:41.480 --> 1:05:43.520 course I kind of didn't believe it because I worked 1:05:43.680 --> 1:05:45.400 with migrants for a long time and I know that 1:05:45.480 --> 1:05:48.760 they're human being, you know, and they're not so like 1:05:48.920 --> 1:05:51.880 shockingly different than but I've also learned that you need 1:05:52.000 --> 1:05:55.720 to be They did not learn at all to trust 1:05:55.840 --> 1:06:00.240 anyone there because like people were lying to them. People 1:06:00.280 --> 1:06:02.160 were telling them they would get shelter in the night, 1:06:02.280 --> 1:06:04.640 but they would not. People would say that they would 1:06:04.640 --> 1:06:06.160 see a doctor, and they would not get to see 1:06:06.200 --> 1:06:10.000 a doctor. So like the I think it's really important 1:06:10.040 --> 1:06:12.080 if you want to tell people that you take them 1:06:12.120 --> 1:06:15.360 seriously and that you build up some trust. So for example, 1:06:15.480 --> 1:06:18.080 we we went the first time, we cooked so much food. 1:06:18.080 --> 1:06:20.240 We were like, it's we cannot make it run out, 1:06:20.320 --> 1:06:22.560 you know, like we want everyone to get as much 1:06:22.640 --> 1:06:25.920 as they want and more. Yea, even if we have 1:06:26.040 --> 1:06:28.840 to trash, because like these people for once have to 1:06:28.880 --> 1:06:32.320 get the feeling that it's like that we're there for everyone. 1:06:33.000 --> 1:06:35.400 So like if you make if you do a mass distribution, 1:06:35.560 --> 1:06:37.680 you usually make light lines and people have to like 1:06:37.800 --> 1:06:40.720 wait for their turn. But we spent hours just telling 1:06:40.760 --> 1:06:43.000 people like, hey, we're going to give out food. There's 1:06:43.240 --> 1:06:46.400 so much food, you know, don't worry like it's to 1:06:47.280 --> 1:06:49.280 and then also actually live up to that of course, 1:06:50.440 --> 1:06:53.640 make sure that there is enough food. Yeah, and like 1:06:54.040 --> 1:06:56.600 try to make it like fun. And this is like 1:06:56.680 --> 1:06:59.040 it's kind of awkward because you like, I kind of 1:06:59.080 --> 1:07:01.560 feel awkward of putting people in a line and telling 1:07:01.600 --> 1:07:04.240 them to wait, and you know, like that because you're 1:07:04.320 --> 1:07:07.760 kind of being bossing them around. But yeah, if it 1:07:07.840 --> 1:07:11.440 goes well once and everyone just feels like, hey, here 1:07:11.520 --> 1:07:13.400 I don't have to fight to get to the front, 1:07:13.520 --> 1:07:15.680 and here I can just chill out and we can 1:07:15.760 --> 1:07:17.480 make a chat with each other and we can just 1:07:18.040 --> 1:07:20.560 you know, smile and like wish each other a good day, 1:07:21.280 --> 1:07:23.560 then Yeah, I think it's also really important to try 1:07:23.600 --> 1:07:26.440 to make distributions kind of fun or at least as 1:07:26.560 --> 1:07:30.320 chill as possible, and to like try to not make 1:07:30.400 --> 1:07:33.880 it another survival of the fittest moment, because that is 1:07:33.960 --> 1:07:37.040 exactly what the state is pushing people into, and that 1:07:37.160 --> 1:07:38.840 is what I don't want people to get into. 1:07:39.560 --> 1:07:42.160 Yeah, I think that's very true. Like we've definitely learned 1:07:42.200 --> 1:07:46.120 a lot of those similar things. I can't like put 1:07:46.200 --> 1:07:48.840 enough emphasis on planning before you just show up and 1:07:48.880 --> 1:07:52.640 do a distribution, like we had so many fucking chaotic 1:07:53.480 --> 1:07:55.640 it's not on. Yeah, people are fighting hungry and they've 1:07:55.680 --> 1:07:58.800 had to fight to get fed for the duration of 1:07:58.840 --> 1:08:01.360 the journey, be the days, months, of years and like 1:08:02.120 --> 1:08:05.880 it's no, they're doing what like they understand to be 1:08:05.920 --> 1:08:06.720 the necessary thing. 1:08:08.040 --> 1:08:11.440 Yeah, and there's it's absolutely not like humane to just 1:08:12.680 --> 1:08:16.040 recreate that that mode, you know, like it's amazing to 1:08:16.200 --> 1:08:19.160 be able to create a nice atmosphere where people can 1:08:19.240 --> 1:08:23.160 relax and feel safe and feel finally treated like equally 1:08:23.320 --> 1:08:26.720 and somehow like fairly again, even if it's just for 1:08:27.040 --> 1:08:30.800 a very simple meal. But it's yeah, I mean you 1:08:31.240 --> 1:08:33.519 can already get moody if someone jumps in front of 1:08:33.600 --> 1:08:37.519 you at the supermarket, you know, like I can get 1:08:37.600 --> 1:08:39.800 moody with that. But it's like that, but then like 1:08:40.040 --> 1:08:42.960 way more extreme and for actual, yeah, things that you 1:08:43.080 --> 1:08:46.720 need to survive all the time, Like it's it's yeah, 1:08:46.760 --> 1:08:49.760 it's hard to imagine, I guess if you've never really 1:08:49.840 --> 1:08:52.840 been in a survival situation. But yeah, it can be 1:08:52.920 --> 1:08:56.080 so much fun. Also, maybe that's another good one, because 1:08:56.280 --> 1:09:00.560 I remember people were feeling sorry for me when I 1:09:00.720 --> 1:09:03.800 was working there, like, oh my god, this must be 1:09:03.920 --> 1:09:06.639 so hard, and I mean it was fucking hard sometimes, 1:09:06.720 --> 1:09:09.840 like I have literally been standing there like pushing away 1:09:09.960 --> 1:09:12.760 tears and being like no, I'm fine, but I'm not 1:09:12.960 --> 1:09:15.720 fine at all. But also it's fun, like you're just 1:09:15.840 --> 1:09:19.040 joking around and you're making each other happy, and you 1:09:19.120 --> 1:09:21.599 feel like you're part of something bigger and you feel 1:09:22.280 --> 1:09:24.320 I think it's very empowering to be like the state 1:09:24.439 --> 1:09:26.479 is fucking it up and we can actually do it better. 1:09:27.800 --> 1:09:32.040 Yeah, very much. So, Like I think it's very like affirming, right, 1:09:32.200 --> 1:09:37.320 like to be like we don't need like anyone telling 1:09:37.400 --> 1:09:41.040 us what to do, We don't need anyone trying to 1:09:41.080 --> 1:09:43.120 control us, like we can we can take care of 1:09:43.200 --> 1:09:48.000 these people ourselves without creating mechanisms of control. And like 1:09:48.200 --> 1:09:50.600 I think for me, that was like one of the 1:09:50.640 --> 1:09:53.000 reasons I really enjoy doing it is that that like 1:09:53.120 --> 1:09:55.640 me and my friends can care for these people. And 1:09:55.800 --> 1:09:58.280 it's like I don't know from my perspective, like I've 1:09:58.320 --> 1:10:00.960 had conversations with hundreds of people from all around the world. 1:10:01.160 --> 1:10:03.840 Like we would do things like play music while people 1:10:03.920 --> 1:10:06.080 waited for food. If we had a friend who was 1:10:06.479 --> 1:10:09.040 able to play music, you know, we had enough enough people. 1:10:09.720 --> 1:10:15.559 We'd always recruit people from among the migrants to help 1:10:15.680 --> 1:10:17.679 us with food distribution, which turned out to be great 1:10:17.680 --> 1:10:21.200 because like they taught us different words in different languages 1:10:21.400 --> 1:10:24.120 and like, you know, I can say hot source in 1:10:24.200 --> 1:10:29.839 like twenty five languages now and like it was important 1:10:29.880 --> 1:10:33.439 parts yeah yeah right there real to death. But yeah, 1:10:33.439 --> 1:10:35.599 it was very and then like I remember one night 1:10:36.600 --> 1:10:39.000 it was like in Septemme it was so cold, one 1:10:39.040 --> 1:10:40.800 of the cold nights. It was in September and it 1:10:40.880 --> 1:10:43.760 was just about freezing, and like there were very few 1:10:43.840 --> 1:10:46.320 of us back then, and we my friend had some 1:10:46.520 --> 1:10:50.759 guitars and like drums and we like parked the band 1:10:50.880 --> 1:10:53.280 to block the wind and everyone sat around and played 1:10:53.280 --> 1:10:55.280 the guitar and they played their different songs and like 1:10:56.120 --> 1:10:58.400 we had all these really happy moments. Yeah it's not 1:10:58.520 --> 1:11:00.960 like we said around growing all the time, like it said. 1:11:01.120 --> 1:11:04.240 No, not at all, very empowering, I think, No, I 1:11:04.280 --> 1:11:06.840 think it's important what you just said that. Also, a 1:11:06.880 --> 1:11:10.120 lot of work can be done by people themselves. So 1:11:11.120 --> 1:11:13.160 I remember a volunteer being like I want to give 1:11:13.160 --> 1:11:15.760 out the food, whereas these guys were giving out the 1:11:15.800 --> 1:11:17.600 food every day and they had this whole routine and 1:11:17.680 --> 1:11:20.519 they were much faster, and you know, like and also 1:11:20.600 --> 1:11:23.799 it's not about you feeling good about. 1:11:23.640 --> 1:11:26.200 You know, like yeah, yeah, not that to help you. 1:11:26.560 --> 1:11:30.360 Yeah, you know, like listen to people like really spend 1:11:30.400 --> 1:11:32.439 a lot of time understanding what people need and what 1:11:32.600 --> 1:11:35.920 they want and because it's really often not what you expect, 1:11:36.800 --> 1:11:40.800 and yeah, make sure that people can also do stuff themselves. 1:11:41.160 --> 1:11:45.519 And also like, for example, if we would have tents 1:11:45.560 --> 1:11:48.120 but not for everyone, or blankets but not for everyone, 1:11:48.640 --> 1:11:51.920 instead of making like a very rigid decision of like 1:11:52.040 --> 1:11:54.880 you get it and you don't, it's so useful to 1:11:55.000 --> 1:11:57.479 just talk to people and to just be like, hey, sorry, 1:11:57.520 --> 1:12:00.920 this is a situation or yeah. Like there were a 1:12:00.960 --> 1:12:04.320 lot of fights because families were always allowed to go first, 1:12:04.360 --> 1:12:07.960 but it was not really clearly communicated by the government's 1:12:08.080 --> 1:12:10.680 like can facility and stuff. But when we were just 1:12:11.479 --> 1:12:13.280 discussing with them, like hey, how can we make the 1:12:13.320 --> 1:12:17.160 distribution more chill, they were like, well, can women and 1:12:17.240 --> 1:12:19.880 children and elderly people just go first? And I was 1:12:19.960 --> 1:12:24.679 like yeah, or you know, I mean, it's not really 1:12:24.880 --> 1:12:28.200 any of my business, like yeah, And then if everyone 1:12:28.360 --> 1:12:31.520 just understands it and it's kind of clear and understandable 1:12:31.560 --> 1:12:35.280 and explained, it's like so much more chill. Whereas if 1:12:35.320 --> 1:12:38.559 you're just shouting at people and assuming that they will 1:12:38.600 --> 1:12:41.360 not understand or assume that they will be selfish, you 1:12:41.439 --> 1:12:44.720 are also forcing people into that role. Yes, and I 1:12:44.760 --> 1:12:47.240 think it's really beautiful if you can snap out of that, 1:12:47.439 --> 1:12:50.240 and you could, yeah, you can just be somewhat equal, 1:12:50.360 --> 1:12:55.000 even though like legally or in a completely different situations. 1:12:55.880 --> 1:12:56.519 Yeah, totally. 1:12:57.280 --> 1:13:00.280 So what you're telling me is that if you talk 1:13:00.400 --> 1:13:04.200 to people and treat them as human beings, that has 1:13:04.320 --> 1:13:06.800 positive results for bad situations. 1:13:09.720 --> 1:13:09.880 Yeah. 1:13:11.439 --> 1:13:14.160 This is a hot take, a very hot take. 1:13:14.400 --> 1:13:16.479 Yeah, breaking news. 1:13:19.040 --> 1:13:22.120 I don't have nearly the amount of field experience that 1:13:22.320 --> 1:13:26.760 Rose has. So but another thing that I think is 1:13:26.840 --> 1:13:31.840 really important to highlight is that it's not just it's 1:13:31.920 --> 1:13:35.880 not just the necessities I was part of. I did 1:13:35.960 --> 1:13:38.960 first date at the No Border camp near to the 1:13:39.040 --> 1:13:43.360 Apple last summer, and some of the activists there that 1:13:44.760 --> 1:13:47.600 a really admirable job day. I think they did not 1:13:47.720 --> 1:13:50.080 go to their apple because it was too politically hot 1:13:50.120 --> 1:13:53.200 at the time, so they went to different centers where 1:13:53.320 --> 1:13:56.960 migrants were living, and they handed out toys and they 1:13:57.080 --> 1:13:58.440 hired a bouncy. 1:13:58.160 --> 1:13:59.960 Castle for the kids to play. 1:14:02.000 --> 1:14:06.000 It was really it was really basic in the sense 1:14:06.080 --> 1:14:10.600 that it didn't need like massive fund massive funds or 1:14:11.479 --> 1:14:14.840 incredible abouance of organization that you need bureaucracies to handle. 1:14:15.240 --> 1:14:18.599 It was just people thinking of ways, like hey, how 1:14:18.680 --> 1:14:22.920 can we make these people happier or more comfortable or 1:14:23.840 --> 1:14:26.920 at least forget for like a few hours about like 1:14:28.160 --> 1:14:33.720 this situation therein because our media likes to, you know, 1:14:34.000 --> 1:14:37.800 dive onto every time there's a fight in a migrant center, right, 1:14:38.200 --> 1:14:41.720 but it's rarely discussed that if you put a lot 1:14:41.800 --> 1:14:45.240 of people in a stressful situation on top of each other, 1:14:45.960 --> 1:14:49.040 people will there will be tensions and there will be fights. 1:14:49.560 --> 1:14:54.680 Which is I think we don't cover that enough, right, No, And. 1:14:54.800 --> 1:14:57.760 Also nobody really cares because I think it's it's one 1:14:57.800 --> 1:15:00.519 of the most beautiful things for me as well. I said, 1:15:01.040 --> 1:15:04.479 the solidarity that people show each other, and like, yeah, 1:15:04.560 --> 1:15:06.559 you don't even see it half the time, but people 1:15:06.640 --> 1:15:10.839 give each other like their waterproof jackets or I remember 1:15:10.920 --> 1:15:13.200 one night it was a horrible night in Fair Apple 1:15:13.320 --> 1:15:15.680 and we didn't expect people to be there, and all 1:15:15.680 --> 1:15:17.200 of a sudden there were hundreds of people and they 1:15:17.240 --> 1:15:20.320 hadn't had food since the morning. And then people in 1:15:20.439 --> 1:15:22.680 the camp they all get microwave meals and they kind 1:15:22.680 --> 1:15:25.800 of hate them, but like they all had kind of 1:15:25.840 --> 1:15:28.240 a stash, so they all like started to eat up 1:15:28.280 --> 1:15:30.920 microwave meals and bring them outside, and they were actually 1:15:31.040 --> 1:15:34.679 way more able to provide food on such a short 1:15:35.240 --> 1:15:39.599 notice than we were. And it was not the best food, 1:15:39.680 --> 1:15:42.000 but like everyone had food and they were even sharing 1:15:42.000 --> 1:15:43.800 it with us, and we were all just like so 1:15:43.960 --> 1:15:46.479 glad to be eating after ten hours in the rain 1:15:46.560 --> 1:15:49.960 and in the cold. And yeah, people, Yeah, I don't know, 1:15:50.479 --> 1:15:53.400 carrying luggage for someone who has Like it's all the 1:15:53.520 --> 1:15:56.240 time you see people standing up for each other, and 1:15:56.320 --> 1:16:00.479 I think that is honestly an amazing thing, and maybe 1:16:01.600 --> 1:16:04.639 more tough situations bring that out somehow more as well, 1:16:04.920 --> 1:16:08.600 Like it's easy for most people in western societies to 1:16:08.680 --> 1:16:13.479 be very individualists and live very isolated and yeah, non 1:16:13.720 --> 1:16:16.200 fulfilling lives, but then if you are in this kind 1:16:16.240 --> 1:16:18.639 of situation, in some ways, it can also bring out 1:16:18.640 --> 1:16:19.439 the best in people. 1:16:20.120 --> 1:16:22.000 Yeah, I think so, Like we were just talking about 1:16:22.240 --> 1:16:25.519 before we started, how like yesterday I was out helping 1:16:25.600 --> 1:16:29.200 down by the border and around the two Mauritanian guys 1:16:29.240 --> 1:16:31.519 who had carried a Chinese man with a leg injury 1:16:31.600 --> 1:16:35.599 for two days and they couldn't even share the same language, 1:16:35.680 --> 1:16:38.280 and like that walk is now that hike is no joke, 1:16:38.400 --> 1:16:40.519 Like I do that with a big backpack full of water. 1:16:41.280 --> 1:16:43.720 That's hard, and I do a lot of hiking, but 1:16:44.520 --> 1:16:48.240 I wasn't carrying another human. You know, it can actually 1:16:48.800 --> 1:17:03.439 really bring out some incredible acts of kindness. And I wondered, guys, 1:17:03.640 --> 1:17:06.479 we're running close to the end of a signed time. 1:17:07.240 --> 1:17:09.479 If people want to help, either they say they're in 1:17:09.479 --> 1:17:11.519 the Netherlands and they want to come and help, or 1:17:12.640 --> 1:17:14.960 if they want to help in a financial way, or 1:17:15.120 --> 1:17:17.160 maybe they can do some remote so help. Maybe they 1:17:17.200 --> 1:17:21.679 can respond to the thousand volunteers for email for you, Yeah, 1:17:22.720 --> 1:17:23.600 how can they do that? 1:17:25.320 --> 1:17:28.519 Yeah, donations are always welcome. We're currently not working in 1:17:28.600 --> 1:17:31.800 their apple, but it doesn't look good. So usually the 1:17:32.160 --> 1:17:37.960 influx is highest in summer and early autumn. And we 1:17:38.080 --> 1:17:41.000 have like a far right majority in parliament since a 1:17:41.080 --> 1:17:47.720 few months, so we're wouldn't be surprised if we have 1:17:47.840 --> 1:17:50.479 people out on the streets again. Also, I think there's 1:17:50.520 --> 1:17:53.960 a very big chance that the shelters for undocumented people 1:17:54.120 --> 1:17:57.360 might close, so we would have a lot of people 1:17:57.400 --> 1:17:59.040 on the streets then, So we need a lot of 1:17:59.080 --> 1:18:03.720 solidarity and a lot of things, like a lot Yeah, 1:18:04.000 --> 1:18:06.360 so like, yeah, financial support is always welcome, but I 1:18:06.400 --> 1:18:08.400 think it's also really important that people think about what 1:18:08.960 --> 1:18:10.920 they can do in their lives and that it is 1:18:11.000 --> 1:18:13.799 also something that they can manage inside of their lives. 1:18:14.280 --> 1:18:18.840 So like not everyone can drop everything and yeah, move 1:18:18.960 --> 1:18:20.960 to the other side of the country or whatever, but 1:18:21.640 --> 1:18:24.120 if you can host one person, or if you can 1:18:25.479 --> 1:18:28.960 support someone else who's hosting, like there are ways. I 1:18:29.000 --> 1:18:31.320 think migrats it does not have like all the options 1:18:31.360 --> 1:18:34.200 to volunteer, but like we really hope that there will 1:18:34.240 --> 1:18:37.400 be a lot of networks of solidarity that yeah, we 1:18:37.600 --> 1:18:41.400 just need them across the country, I think, and I 1:18:41.600 --> 1:18:43.920 do think there's like a serious risk of like more 1:18:44.000 --> 1:18:48.760 criminalization of aid workers. We were also criminalized for handing 1:18:48.800 --> 1:18:51.320 out tents. I got a letter that said that I 1:18:51.439 --> 1:18:54.120 risk like three months of imprisonment for handing out tents. 1:18:54.640 --> 1:18:59.520 Oh wow, Yeah, but that's democracy. 1:19:01.680 --> 1:19:05.679 Yeah, we need that European social democracy model that everyone's 1:19:05.720 --> 1:19:06.160 talking about. 1:19:06.240 --> 1:19:08.840 Yeah, we are just doing great. Yeah yeah, And so, 1:19:09.080 --> 1:19:12.080 like tents were constantly confiscated and stuff, and it was 1:19:12.160 --> 1:19:15.360 intense there because people had to be there to get sheltered, 1:19:15.439 --> 1:19:18.040 which they legally were entitled to. But it is a 1:19:18.120 --> 1:19:21.760 bigger trend, so regular homeless people will also see their 1:19:21.800 --> 1:19:24.760 tents confiscated or smashed without them getting an offer to 1:19:24.800 --> 1:19:27.680 get into a shelter. Right. So, I think the criminalization 1:19:28.080 --> 1:19:31.000 in our case was a bit extreme because most of 1:19:31.080 --> 1:19:33.479 the criminalization had to do with at least a very 1:19:33.600 --> 1:19:38.160 vague relationship with like smuggling or people crossing borders, whereas 1:19:38.200 --> 1:19:42.479 like handing out senses like the most humanitarian, basic thing 1:19:42.600 --> 1:19:45.679 that you can possibly do, and somehow they still thought 1:19:45.720 --> 1:19:48.320 it was a good idea to criminalize that. Yeah, I 1:19:48.400 --> 1:19:50.880 think we need to like prepare for the fact that 1:19:51.760 --> 1:19:55.000 our borders and our migration policies are going to get 1:19:55.080 --> 1:19:57.439 more cruel and that the only thing that we can 1:19:57.520 --> 1:20:01.080 do to help is like really strong works of solidarity 1:20:01.200 --> 1:20:05.200 and resistance, and that we might sometimes risk prison time, 1:20:06.120 --> 1:20:08.439 but that we still probably need to do it because 1:20:08.439 --> 1:20:13.240 the alternative is that we're just letting people be destroyed 1:20:13.280 --> 1:20:13.880 in the system. 1:20:14.640 --> 1:20:17.160 I think that's very very good, Mike, Do you have 1:20:17.200 --> 1:20:21.639 anything adworking people for you find more ways to support, 1:20:21.760 --> 1:20:22.960 ways to show solidarity. 1:20:23.720 --> 1:20:26.400 I think what I plugged last time, like that Polish 1:20:26.479 --> 1:20:30.280 Front text campaign, find your local activist group. 1:20:30.800 --> 1:20:36.720 Or started because we exactly exactly. Even if you're just 1:20:36.800 --> 1:20:37.840 one person, that's like. 1:20:39.760 --> 1:20:42.040 Yeah, like through social media, you can find a lot 1:20:42.080 --> 1:20:45.920 of people. Find your local squad, they will be they 1:20:45.960 --> 1:20:46.800 will want to help. 1:20:47.360 --> 1:20:47.559 Yeah. 1:20:48.160 --> 1:20:51.479 Oh and maybe what you just said, like there's every 1:20:51.560 --> 1:20:54.080 year no border camp somewhere in another one, so that's 1:20:54.080 --> 1:20:55.400 also a good place to start. 1:20:55.840 --> 1:21:02.400 Yeah, yeah, yes, you can find them on Instagram. I 1:21:02.640 --> 1:21:05.080 think I'm not on Instagram. I don't know. 1:21:06.240 --> 1:21:06.840 Yeah, it's there. 1:21:07.200 --> 1:21:11.960 That's that. That's definitely an option. Atmosphere is great. There, 1:21:12.680 --> 1:21:15.439 I don't I'm not on the socials, so you can't 1:21:15.520 --> 1:21:20.559 find me if you want to. I'm sorry. And well 1:21:20.600 --> 1:21:23.759 I'm also like Rosa you said, I do some stuff 1:21:23.800 --> 1:21:26.639 with like a first aid collective. So if you guys 1:21:26.720 --> 1:21:30.280 are if you are doing something and you you're like, hey, 1:21:30.640 --> 1:21:35.439 we could use some people with some degree of medical training, 1:21:36.120 --> 1:21:38.360 reach out to me. You have my contacts, because that 1:21:38.479 --> 1:21:40.599 is the kind of thing I will most definitely get 1:21:42.439 --> 1:21:44.120 well excited is the wrong words. 1:21:46.400 --> 1:21:49.120 If she hits evanitser Apple, we could really use some 1:21:49.360 --> 1:21:51.360 first aid as well, then yeah. 1:21:51.479 --> 1:21:56.680 Yeah, yeah, reach out. I will I will gladly come 1:21:56.720 --> 1:22:00.559 over there and with all the medical supplies that are 1:22:00.640 --> 1:22:01.720 scuttered around my room. 1:22:04.120 --> 1:22:06.200 Yeah, that's I think that's a good illustration though, right 1:22:06.280 --> 1:22:10.240 to finish up, Like, everybody has a skill that we 1:22:10.360 --> 1:22:12.600 can use, Like you might not think you do, but 1:22:12.800 --> 1:22:17.640 you probably do. Like someone knitted hats for us, you know, 1:22:17.720 --> 1:22:19.760 if you're a person who likes to knit. And we 1:22:19.920 --> 1:22:22.719 had people who didn't think they had much to offer 1:22:22.800 --> 1:22:25.280 and then came and just made sandwiches. And they created 1:22:25.320 --> 1:22:28.280 a method for making sandwiches in bulk that like allowed 1:22:28.360 --> 1:22:32.960 us to make more sandwiches more quickly. Everybody has even 1:22:33.120 --> 1:22:35.519 if you want to be the person who washes the blankets, 1:22:35.560 --> 1:22:38.880 and that's a massive task. It means somebody's warm at night. 1:22:39.840 --> 1:22:44.200 Yeah, that's an insane test. And also like maybe the 1:22:44.439 --> 1:22:48.120 the more intimidating fast, Like I think it could be 1:22:48.160 --> 1:22:50.760 intimidating to be like, oh, we're going to I don't know, 1:22:50.920 --> 1:22:54.800 hundreds of men and everyone says they're scary, but indeed 1:22:54.840 --> 1:22:57.240 there's also so much things happening in the background, like 1:22:57.439 --> 1:23:02.439 collecting blankets, getting clothes, getting groceries, Like there's so so 1:23:02.560 --> 1:23:04.640 many layers to it. And it can also be that 1:23:04.720 --> 1:23:07.679 you collect end blankets, but like hundreds of people collect 1:23:07.760 --> 1:23:11.439 end blankets, right. So it's also you're always part of 1:23:11.520 --> 1:23:14.880 something bigger and there's always a there's always I think 1:23:14.920 --> 1:23:18.520 that it's always very good to think that, Like, if 1:23:18.560 --> 1:23:20.600 you're faced with a big problem, it's very hard to 1:23:21.080 --> 1:23:23.720 get to the solution of it, but at the same time, 1:23:23.760 --> 1:23:26.479 it's very easy to do a tiny thing about it. 1:23:27.200 --> 1:23:29.360 And I think it's much more useful to do that 1:23:29.520 --> 1:23:32.120 tiny thing than to be like, oh, I can never 1:23:32.240 --> 1:23:34.720 get to the real solution of this problem, And in 1:23:34.760 --> 1:23:36.599 the end you will kind of get to it by 1:23:36.720 --> 1:23:39.479 doing that with more and more people and actually building 1:23:39.560 --> 1:23:42.520 up collective power and resistance. 1:23:43.240 --> 1:23:48.360 Yeah, about the collecting thing, like, yeah, for example, I 1:23:48.400 --> 1:23:50.720 know my parents still have like old toys from when 1:23:50.800 --> 1:23:53.000 we and my brother were younger. If you're in an 1:23:53.000 --> 1:23:55.760 area with a refugee center, you could always just give 1:23:55.880 --> 1:23:58.360 those toys to the people there. If you have old 1:23:58.360 --> 1:24:01.000 old children's books or something, people can use that to 1:24:01.760 --> 1:24:05.280 get a grasp on the Gibberish that is the Dutch language. 1:24:06.520 --> 1:24:11.280 These little things also matter a lot, and it's something 1:24:11.600 --> 1:24:13.840 very impactful that you can do that doesn't take much 1:24:13.920 --> 1:24:14.799 of your own effort. 1:24:16.040 --> 1:24:18.920 Yeah, it's very low threshold, right, and it makes a 1:24:19.000 --> 1:24:21.439 huge difference. It makes someone feel cared for and welcome. 1:24:22.320 --> 1:24:24.080 That can make all the difference in the world. And 1:24:24.560 --> 1:24:27.519 what is Can you just spell out the migreat website 1:24:27.560 --> 1:24:27.800 for us? 1:24:28.840 --> 1:24:32.240 Uh huh m I G R E A T dot. 1:24:32.240 --> 1:24:33.200 Org dot org. 1:24:33.360 --> 1:24:36.639 Perfect, It's like, migration is great, migrat migreat. 1:24:36.680 --> 1:24:40.720 Yeah, all right, thank you so much, both of you. 1:24:42.000 --> 1:24:43.439 Thanks, thank you for having us. 1:24:58.600 --> 1:25:00.759 Welcome to what could happen here? The show about things 1:25:00.840 --> 1:25:03.880 falling apart, and often what's falling apart is kind of 1:25:03.960 --> 1:25:07.000 our general agreed upon sense of what reality is, and 1:25:07.120 --> 1:25:09.040 that's kind of what we're talking about here. 1:25:09.160 --> 1:25:09.519 Today. 1:25:09.920 --> 1:25:12.960 We're going to talk about the latest batch of new 1:25:13.200 --> 1:25:18.479 transgender conspiracy theories. And to join me in this exciting 1:25:18.600 --> 1:25:20.000 journey is Mia Wong. 1:25:20.160 --> 1:25:23.680 Hello, Miya. You know, why is it that whatever we're 1:25:23.720 --> 1:25:27.719 covering transgender conspiracy, it's not like conspiracies that trans people 1:25:27.800 --> 1:25:31.280 made up. It's always conspiracies about trans people. It's like, like, 1:25:31.360 --> 1:25:32.880 can we never get one that like. 1:25:33.160 --> 1:25:36.240 Often I can't remember the last time I had like 1:25:36.360 --> 1:25:40.720 a positive Pride Month episode, which I feel kind of 1:25:40.800 --> 1:25:43.840 bad about, but I don't know. It's still an interesting 1:25:43.880 --> 1:25:46.400 topic and I've not seen this discussed as much as 1:25:46.439 --> 1:25:49.280 that should be. And you know, last week, I really 1:25:49.360 --> 1:25:51.719 thought I was going to have, you know, a difficult 1:25:51.800 --> 1:25:54.800 work week researching Trump pornography. I thought that'd be, like, 1:25:54.880 --> 1:25:57.320 you know, the low part of my month. But it 1:25:57.360 --> 1:25:59.599 turns out spending three days to sifting through mass Shooter 1:26:00.479 --> 1:26:04.800 is actually much worse, much worse than looking through Trump board. 1:26:05.200 --> 1:26:06.320 So Jarisy, can I can? 1:26:06.400 --> 1:26:06.920 I can? I can? 1:26:06.960 --> 1:26:09.280 I recommend that you two spend your time listening to 1:26:09.320 --> 1:26:11.720 a bunch of rioters talking about the absolute worst time 1:26:11.760 --> 1:26:16.160 of their life. Much better, all right, So let's get 1:26:16.320 --> 1:26:21.040 into it. We're gonna talk first about video games. I'm 1:26:21.080 --> 1:26:24.640 gonna quote a tweet from a kind of failure of 1:26:24.720 --> 1:26:27.160 a far right influencer, which is exciting because they're mostly 1:26:27.160 --> 1:26:29.920 gonna be talking about successful ones. But is this guy 1:26:30.040 --> 1:26:34.720 named ben ko uk flag in bio, so opinion immediately discarded. 1:26:34.920 --> 1:26:40.200 But he has said a few days ago quote Activision's 1:26:40.280 --> 1:26:43.679 Call of Duty has added transgender bullets to the game 1:26:43.840 --> 1:26:47.040 in honor of Pride Month, so you can literally play 1:26:47.200 --> 1:26:51.679 as a transgender mass shooter unquote. This tweet was almost 1:26:51.920 --> 1:26:56.160 ripped word for word by Ian Miles Chung basically said 1:26:56.160 --> 1:26:59.639 the exact same thing, except you said role play, not play. 1:27:00.120 --> 1:27:03.960 Extremely funny and I did not realize the bullets themselves 1:27:04.000 --> 1:27:07.680 identified as trans. But good for she her they them, 1:27:08.200 --> 1:27:11.799 I guess. So we started to see this claim repeated 1:27:11.960 --> 1:27:15.720 through the anti trans far right grifter media space right. 1:27:15.840 --> 1:27:18.960 Limbs of TikTok said that quote call of Duty is 1:27:19.000 --> 1:27:23.320 now enabling kids to rule play being a literal trans terrorist. 1:27:24.160 --> 1:27:27.080 And for some reason, whenever Limbs of TikTok writes terrorists, 1:27:27.920 --> 1:27:29.439 she asterix out the o's. 1:27:30.600 --> 1:27:34.000 I don't know why, but this this started to pick 1:27:34.080 --> 1:27:36.200 up steam. There was an article in Glenn Beck's The 1:27:36.200 --> 1:27:39.919 Blaze quote call of Duty Pride Bundle let's players simulate 1:27:40.160 --> 1:27:43.799 murder using trans flag adorned guns and bullets. 1:27:44.640 --> 1:27:47.000 I'm so excited for these people to fi to find 1:27:47.000 --> 1:27:51.200 out about counter strike. There are gonna be literally so many, 1:27:51.760 --> 1:27:54.200 so many articles. They just have the video clip of 1:27:54.280 --> 1:27:56.559 the thing in places at the n words says terrorists win. 1:27:57.760 --> 1:28:01.160 The Quartering wrote, call of Duty is so trans Pride 1:28:01.280 --> 1:28:07.400 bullets whatevery mass shooter wants. So what's going on here? 1:28:07.920 --> 1:28:10.960 Cause this, you know, if you're not as online as 1:28:11.000 --> 1:28:13.800 some of us, some other people are you know, this 1:28:13.960 --> 1:28:17.280 is maybe confusing. Why are they saying that trans people 1:28:17.320 --> 1:28:18.240 are all mass shooters? 1:28:18.320 --> 1:28:18.400 Now? 1:28:18.479 --> 1:28:19.000 What's going on? 1:28:19.600 --> 1:28:20.280 And you know? 1:28:20.720 --> 1:28:23.600 And also if you're thinking it's kind of odd that 1:28:23.680 --> 1:28:25.400 there would be a Call of Duty update where you 1:28:25.439 --> 1:28:28.160 can literally play as a transgender mass shooter and shoot 1:28:28.240 --> 1:28:32.000 transgender bullets, you would be right because that never happened. 1:28:32.760 --> 1:28:35.080 It's false, no way, not this time. 1:28:35.439 --> 1:28:36.080 We created it. 1:28:36.560 --> 1:28:39.439 Not this time. No, not this time. So let's get 1:28:39.479 --> 1:28:41.200 into what's really going on with this Call of Duty 1:28:41.240 --> 1:28:43.840 Pride update, and then we'll discuss why so many of 1:28:44.120 --> 1:28:46.839 these far right influences are pushing this kind of trans 1:28:47.080 --> 1:28:50.600 terrorist story. So on June first, Activision did release an 1:28:50.680 --> 1:28:53.599 update for the terrible new Call of Duty Modern Warfare three. 1:28:54.080 --> 1:28:57.960 It contained anime mecha skins and seven free weapon skins 1:28:58.160 --> 1:29:00.519 themed after various Pride flegs. Now, some would argue that 1:29:00.560 --> 1:29:03.839 the mechasuits are essentially also Pride themed, but I digress. 1:29:04.120 --> 1:29:07.479 For this Pride Weapon Camo pack, it will color your 1:29:07.520 --> 1:29:10.040 gun with the flag of your choosing. One of the 1:29:10.120 --> 1:29:13.639 said flags is the blue, pink and white trans flag. Yet, 1:29:13.680 --> 1:29:16.240 if you apply the trans skin to any of the 1:29:16.280 --> 1:29:19.600 regular guns in the game, the bullets will not be trans'd. 1:29:19.880 --> 1:29:23.639 So what gives without the transgender bullets? How is anyone 1:29:23.720 --> 1:29:26.920 supposed to literally role play a mass shooter like libs 1:29:26.920 --> 1:29:29.360 of tech Talk and Ian Miles Chung say we can. 1:29:30.040 --> 1:29:33.760 So it turns out these quote unquote transgender bullets were 1:29:33.800 --> 1:29:36.080 in fact not intentionally added to the game in honor 1:29:36.080 --> 1:29:38.280 of Pride Month, and are most likely a bug that 1:29:38.360 --> 1:29:42.839 affects one single gun when one exclusive attachment is equipped. 1:29:42.880 --> 1:29:46.160 I'm going to quote from Kotaku quote Modern Warfare three's 1:29:46.320 --> 1:29:49.040 M four came with a special Soul Harvester weapon blueprint 1:29:49.080 --> 1:29:51.000 which includes a skin and a specific attachment for the 1:29:51.120 --> 1:29:53.439 M four and quote unquote trace a rounds, which are 1:29:53.520 --> 1:29:56.599 colorful AMMO options that also leave traces of different visual 1:29:56.640 --> 1:29:58.880 effects like paint splatters or rose petals. 1:29:59.479 --> 1:29:59.960 This is special. 1:30:00.000 --> 1:30:02.639 The blueprint was for people who spend one hundred dollars 1:30:02.720 --> 1:30:05.560 to purchase the Vault edition of the game. Based on 1:30:05.640 --> 1:30:08.559 Kataku's testing, it appears the quote unquote trans bullets only 1:30:08.560 --> 1:30:11.560 appear when applying the transgender flag Camo skin on this 1:30:11.760 --> 1:30:15.240 specific weapon blueprint. It's unclear this is a bug. At 1:30:15.280 --> 1:30:17.479 one point during testing, the bullets in the cartridge were 1:30:17.520 --> 1:30:19.960 only the pink colors in the flag or is just 1:30:20.120 --> 1:30:23.000 an extremely indiosyncratic reflection of how Call of Duty's complex 1:30:23.040 --> 1:30:27.599 shader system interacts across thousands of items and cosmetics. During testing, 1:30:27.960 --> 1:30:31.040 any other Camo skin applied to the M four Soul 1:30:31.080 --> 1:30:34.160 Harvester blueprint resulted in bullets in the cartridge changing the 1:30:34.240 --> 1:30:35.639 color to match that skin. 1:30:35.960 --> 1:30:36.400 Unquote. 1:30:37.280 --> 1:30:39.439 Now, I do think it's a little bit silly that 1:30:39.479 --> 1:30:42.600 there's so much uproar about these trans colored bullets, but 1:30:43.560 --> 1:30:46.599 not as much about like just a trans colored gun, 1:30:46.880 --> 1:30:50.280 Like why is the bullet the big thing? 1:30:51.080 --> 1:30:52.840 And we all know that you. 1:30:52.920 --> 1:30:55.840 Can't play as a mass shooter in Call of Duty. 1:30:56.080 --> 1:30:59.280 You play as a war criminal and most transgender war 1:30:59.320 --> 1:31:02.439 criminals are just drone pilots or work for Raytheon. If 1:31:02.479 --> 1:31:04.400 you want to play a mass shooter game, you can 1:31:04.479 --> 1:31:07.040 just play GTA five or hit Man, where you play 1:31:07.080 --> 1:31:07.720 as CIS men. 1:31:08.400 --> 1:31:09.160 Yeah, yeah, yeah, I. 1:31:09.160 --> 1:31:12.400 Know, but the Russian terrorist airport level don't at me. 1:31:12.479 --> 1:31:16.880 I don't care anyway. There there was a great article 1:31:17.000 --> 1:31:20.560 in former Tucker Carlson Project, The Daily Caller with the 1:31:20.640 --> 1:31:23.759 headline Pride Month finally comes for one of the last 1:31:23.920 --> 1:31:29.160 bastions of manhood and the opening tagline is gamers. They 1:31:29.360 --> 1:31:30.680 targeted gamers. 1:31:31.200 --> 1:31:33.479 Oh no, So. 1:31:33.600 --> 1:31:38.759 Anyway, what's really at play here with this transmash shooter stuff. 1:31:39.640 --> 1:31:42.439 This is just another beat in the rhetorical strategy that 1:31:42.520 --> 1:31:45.760 conservative anti trans influencers have been building over the past 1:31:45.920 --> 1:31:48.599 year and a half, using a mix of cherry picked data, 1:31:48.720 --> 1:31:52.519 bad stats, and often outright lies to convince people that 1:31:52.600 --> 1:31:57.080 there is an increasing epidemic of transgender mass killing attacks 1:31:57.240 --> 1:32:00.880 sweeping the nation. When discussing this, Calling Duty, Pride Pack 1:32:01.280 --> 1:32:05.160 Libs of TikTok said, quote, with the uptick in actual 1:32:05.400 --> 1:32:09.000 trans violence we've been seeing, it's alarming that call of 1:32:09.080 --> 1:32:12.800 duty would introduce this and a Blaze article read quote. 1:32:12.960 --> 1:32:16.160 Critics have suggested activision Blizzard may want to reconsider given 1:32:16.240 --> 1:32:20.479 the recent mass shootings executed by lgbt radicals. There have 1:32:20.600 --> 1:32:23.840 been multiple mass shootings executed, attempted, or at the very 1:32:23.960 --> 1:32:28.759 least planned by transvestites and LGBTQ radicals in recent years. 1:32:29.720 --> 1:32:34.560 So this Blaze article begins by listing four alleged instances 1:32:34.800 --> 1:32:38.719 of these trans mass shooters. Two of these simply never happened, 1:32:39.120 --> 1:32:42.439 as the alleged transgender individuals, a trans guy and a 1:32:42.560 --> 1:32:46.400 fifty six year old organ and nazi were arrested after 1:32:46.479 --> 1:32:50.760 they made concerning posts online. And the other two which 1:32:50.880 --> 1:32:55.960 which did happen. These were shootings, except these were never 1:32:55.960 --> 1:32:57.120 actually done by trans people. 1:32:57.320 --> 1:33:00.080 It's a made up tick. It's a total fabrication. It 1:33:00.240 --> 1:33:00.799 never happened. 1:33:01.200 --> 1:33:02.040 It never happened. 1:33:02.200 --> 1:33:03.679 This one was invented by a writer. 1:33:04.320 --> 1:33:08.439 So although this transgender mass shooter narrative might not be real, 1:33:09.080 --> 1:33:10.040 do you know what is real? 1:33:10.160 --> 1:33:12.320 Mia? Is it capitalism? 1:33:12.680 --> 1:33:15.920 It is, and capitalism is fueled, at least currently by 1:33:16.000 --> 1:33:30.080 the products and sponsors that support this podcast. Okay, we 1:33:30.160 --> 1:33:34.400 are back now. Trying to frame every new mass shooter 1:33:34.560 --> 1:33:38.080 as some like crazed leftist of some variety is an 1:33:38.120 --> 1:33:41.320 old tactic popularized by the likes of Andy Know, Which 1:33:41.400 --> 1:33:44.679 is you know ironic? Considering the fact that political extremist 1:33:44.720 --> 1:33:48.880 related killings for the past ten years are overwhelmingly done 1:33:49.000 --> 1:33:52.599 by individuals tied to right wing extremism, the ADL puts 1:33:52.640 --> 1:33:55.880 it at seventy five percent, whereas leftist extremism, which is 1:33:55.920 --> 1:33:59.280 categorized as including anarchists as well as black nationalist groups, 1:33:59.720 --> 1:34:02.599 are responsible for just four percent. Most of the rest 1:34:02.680 --> 1:34:07.160 they categorize as Islamic violent extremists, including the twenty sixteen 1:34:07.240 --> 1:34:10.880 Pulse nightclub massacre targeted against c people in Orlando, although 1:34:11.240 --> 1:34:14.240 one could argue that that is also right wing extremistum 1:34:14.400 --> 1:34:16.559 like they are also right wiggers like It's like yes, 1:34:17.000 --> 1:34:19.920 it turns out the ADL might have troubling some troubling 1:34:20.000 --> 1:34:24.040 ways of collecting data breaking news anyway, regardless of the 1:34:24.120 --> 1:34:27.439 actual facts. Lying about the political demographic of mass shooters 1:34:27.520 --> 1:34:30.080 is an old tactic employed by far right content creators 1:34:30.360 --> 1:34:33.599 to gain clicks and influence the talking points of more 1:34:33.680 --> 1:34:37.240 popular media figures and politicians, And now the past few 1:34:37.320 --> 1:34:40.120 years we've seen a new iteration of this tactic, where 1:34:40.280 --> 1:34:42.360 in the confusion and chaos of the first few minutes 1:34:42.400 --> 1:34:45.320 and hours after a shooting, anti trans influencers will do 1:34:45.439 --> 1:34:48.639 everything they can to frame an alleged or suspected shooter 1:34:48.960 --> 1:34:52.559 of being transgender, often using out of context social media posts, 1:34:52.640 --> 1:34:56.720 doctored photographs, photos of other people, or just pictures of 1:34:56.840 --> 1:34:59.880 like long or dyed hair to affirm that a MAI 1:35:00.200 --> 1:35:04.559 shooter must actually be transgender now, even if this claim 1:35:04.680 --> 1:35:07.080 is like widely debunked later on, most of the people 1:35:07.120 --> 1:35:10.040 that follow these far right accounts won't be hearing about that, 1:35:10.640 --> 1:35:12.080 So all they need to do is use this brief 1:35:12.120 --> 1:35:16.320 window of chaos to seed the idea into people's minds. 1:35:16.400 --> 1:35:19.519 And if you do this thing frequently enough after each 1:35:19.600 --> 1:35:22.400 new mass shooting, then it's pretty easy to create a 1:35:22.439 --> 1:35:26.680 false perception of this increasing trend. Now, this style of 1:35:26.800 --> 1:35:30.040 propaganda has been largely spearheaded by chia y Trek using 1:35:30.120 --> 1:35:34.360 her libs of TikTok account. Here's another quote from her quote. 1:35:34.760 --> 1:35:38.519 The modern LGBTQ plus movement is radicalizing young activists into 1:35:38.560 --> 1:35:43.160 becoming violent terrorist extremists. The uptick in trans violence is 1:35:43.240 --> 1:35:46.479 going to get worse unquote. But this sort of rhetoric 1:35:46.560 --> 1:35:49.840 has been spread by many other online figures in this orbit, 1:35:50.280 --> 1:35:54.920 like disgraced buzzfeedwriter Benny Johnson and chronic poster ian Miles Chunk. 1:35:55.560 --> 1:35:58.280 Their rhetoric has been spread by sitting politicians Donald Trump 1:35:58.400 --> 1:36:02.160 Junior and Elon Musk. Now, to clarify, people have been 1:36:02.320 --> 1:36:04.960 lying about the gender identity of mass shooters for like 1:36:05.040 --> 1:36:07.120 a long time. It's one of the oldest jokes on 1:36:07.160 --> 1:36:10.120 four Chan. But what's been going on the past two 1:36:10.240 --> 1:36:13.760 years is something different, and it requires a little bit 1:36:13.760 --> 1:36:17.960 more in depth examination of this propaganda trend. Now to 1:36:18.000 --> 1:36:20.439 get into more specific examples here, I like to break 1:36:20.520 --> 1:36:22.920 down a common meme format used to spread this type 1:36:22.960 --> 1:36:26.320 of false propaganda. It's usually about five pictures of mass 1:36:26.360 --> 1:36:29.719 shooters with text next to each picture that reads something 1:36:29.880 --> 1:36:34.439 like the Nashville shooter identified as trans, the X shooter 1:36:34.640 --> 1:36:37.439 identified as trans. So it will just list all of 1:36:37.520 --> 1:36:41.200 these people that allegedly are mass shooters and allegedly identified 1:36:41.240 --> 1:36:46.160 as trans. Now, police didn't identify the Nashville Covenant School 1:36:46.160 --> 1:36:49.599 shooter as a trans man, that we have to take 1:36:49.640 --> 1:36:53.559 their word for it. They've released no other info on that. Typically, 1:36:53.720 --> 1:36:57.200 this is seen as like the first legitimate mass shooting 1:36:57.320 --> 1:37:00.720 done by a transgender individual, and the past year we've 1:37:00.760 --> 1:37:02.680 been waiting for more and more context to come out 1:37:02.680 --> 1:37:05.760 about this mass shooting and it's possible motivations. So I'm 1:37:05.800 --> 1:37:07.720 not even going to really discuss this one right now. 1:37:07.960 --> 1:37:10.040 Well just to say, sure, this is a trans person 1:37:10.080 --> 1:37:11.840 who happened to do a mass shooting and leave it 1:37:11.920 --> 1:37:14.400 at that, even though it's you know, not totally clear. 1:37:14.479 --> 1:37:15.840 Yeah, I mean, I do. I want to add one 1:37:15.880 --> 1:37:18.439 thing briefly, which is that like trying to find out 1:37:18.479 --> 1:37:20.960 information from the police about a mass shooting is such 1:37:20.960 --> 1:37:24.720 a crapshoot, Like they just you know, they'll they'll be 1:37:24.840 --> 1:37:28.040 like an initial flurry of press releases or whatever, and 1:37:28.080 --> 1:37:29.960 then they just will never talk about it again until 1:37:30.040 --> 1:37:32.439 maybe the trial. And sometimes you get some from that well. 1:37:32.560 --> 1:37:36.760 And in often cases for mass shooters who often die, 1:37:37.360 --> 1:37:37.640 there is. 1:37:37.640 --> 1:37:39.880 No true never get yeah yeah if they're dead. 1:37:39.960 --> 1:37:43.360 Like but even keeping this Nashville incident as a legitimate 1:37:43.439 --> 1:37:46.080 mass shooting done by a person who happens to be 1:37:46.160 --> 1:37:49.640 trans when talking about this meme, the thing is is 1:37:49.720 --> 1:37:52.599 that with these five pictures that are on this meme. 1:37:53.160 --> 1:37:55.080 Most typically three out. 1:37:55.000 --> 1:37:58.800 Of the five people that have their pictures here aren't 1:37:58.880 --> 1:37:59.679 even treads. 1:38:00.240 --> 1:38:00.840 Not this time. 1:38:01.120 --> 1:38:02.040 It never happened. 1:38:02.439 --> 1:38:05.280 It is false. It never happened. It's a fake. 1:38:05.640 --> 1:38:06.160 It's fiction. 1:38:06.720 --> 1:38:06.840 Now. 1:38:06.920 --> 1:38:10.519 Most famously, we have the Colorado Springs shooter Anderson Lee Aldrich, 1:38:10.560 --> 1:38:12.479 who killed five people and injured twenty five others at 1:38:12.520 --> 1:38:15.320 a queer club in twenty twenty two. Later on, his 1:38:15.439 --> 1:38:19.200 lawyer claimed that the shooter was non binary, which I 1:38:19.360 --> 1:38:21.880 believe is a disgusting and disingenuous attempt to get out 1:38:21.920 --> 1:38:24.519 of the more than now fifty hate crime charges that 1:38:24.600 --> 1:38:27.600 the shooter is facing. And this opinion is shared not 1:38:27.720 --> 1:38:32.200 only by the DA but also all other legitimate extremists 1:38:32.200 --> 1:38:35.439 and researchers. Prior to these claims in court, there was 1:38:36.000 --> 1:38:38.519 no indication whatsoever that the shooter was non binary or 1:38:38.600 --> 1:38:42.719 used they then pronouns. However, they did own rainbow flag. 1:38:43.439 --> 1:38:47.519 Shooting Targets ran a neo Nazi website that posted gun 1:38:47.600 --> 1:38:50.880 training videos and was known by online acquaintances to frequently 1:38:50.920 --> 1:38:53.240 post racist and homophobic content. Now I should clarify when 1:38:53.280 --> 1:38:55.799 I say shooting targets, I don't mean that it's pride 1:38:55.880 --> 1:38:58.920 theme shooting targets. It's that the people that you are 1:38:59.000 --> 1:39:03.000 shooting are painted like they are gay. So there you 1:39:03.120 --> 1:39:06.280 go now. Pictured next in the meme is someone with 1:39:06.439 --> 1:39:10.439 purple colored hair, labeled as the Denver shooter. This person 1:39:10.640 --> 1:39:13.240 is not trans, has never claimed to be trans. He 1:39:13.520 --> 1:39:16.400 just has dyed hair. He killed one person in a 1:39:16.439 --> 1:39:18.880 school shooting that he planned with a sixteen year old 1:39:18.920 --> 1:39:19.400 trans guy. 1:39:20.520 --> 1:39:22.880 In mass shooting? Correct? Correct? 1:39:23.080 --> 1:39:25.200 Will we will get in We will get into this 1:39:25.320 --> 1:39:28.799 later because the definition of mass shooting is getting stretched 1:39:29.400 --> 1:39:31.880 liberally here now. The third person pictured who is in 1:39:32.000 --> 1:39:35.800 trans changes more frequently in different versions of the meme 1:39:36.240 --> 1:39:39.839 that you can find online. One version includes someone referenced 1:39:39.920 --> 1:39:43.400 as the Philadelphia shooter. This is referencing a shooting spree 1:39:43.439 --> 1:39:45.960 that resulted in five people being killed. This shooter had 1:39:46.000 --> 1:39:49.400 previously posted photos of himself cross dressing in women's clothes, 1:39:49.920 --> 1:39:52.160 and this was used by figures like Marjorie Taylor Green 1:39:52.479 --> 1:39:55.679 to claim that the cis Mail shooter was actually quote 1:39:55.840 --> 1:39:59.960 another trans shooter. Family of this shooter referred to him 1:40:00.120 --> 1:40:04.080 as a quote unquote biblical extremist, and he often posted 1:40:04.360 --> 1:40:08.120 bizarre Christian spiritual conspiracy theories and was an outspoken fan 1:40:08.200 --> 1:40:11.599 of Tucker Carlson. In another version of the meme posted 1:40:11.600 --> 1:40:15.200 by Chaia Reichik, she identifies the Uvalde school shooter as 1:40:15.280 --> 1:40:18.800 transo and includes a picture of a transwoman holding the 1:40:18.880 --> 1:40:22.920 trans Pride flag. This was posted in January of this year. 1:40:23.640 --> 1:40:26.719 Elon Musk replied to the tweet with two exclamation points. 1:40:27.200 --> 1:40:27.360 Now. 1:40:27.720 --> 1:40:30.519 In the hours after the Euvaldi School shooting, pictures of 1:40:30.600 --> 1:40:33.439 two or three different transwomen were used to falsely label 1:40:33.520 --> 1:40:36.080 the shooter as trans, with at least one of these transwomen, 1:40:36.160 --> 1:40:38.400 being from New York, the other from Georgia. Both these 1:40:38.400 --> 1:40:41.080 women received a great deal of harassment after the shooting, 1:40:41.479 --> 1:40:44.800 Arizona Congressman Paul Gozar tweeted that the shooter was quote 1:40:45.080 --> 1:40:49.920 a transsexual, leftist illegal alien unquote, which is frankly amazing 1:40:50.000 --> 1:40:52.000 because every word in that sentence is wrong. 1:40:52.400 --> 1:40:53.160 We made this one up. 1:40:53.360 --> 1:40:55.640 It's a made up tap, it's a total fabrication. 1:40:56.040 --> 1:40:56.839 It never happened. 1:40:57.240 --> 1:40:58.040 It never happened. 1:40:58.520 --> 1:41:00.839 Now, the other person in this meme that is typically 1:41:00.920 --> 1:41:04.280 accepted to be trans is the Aberdeen shooter. Now, I'm 1:41:04.320 --> 1:41:05.840 going to just quote from the Washington Post here. 1:41:05.960 --> 1:41:06.240 Quote. 1:41:06.560 --> 1:41:09.000 In twenty eighteen, in Aberdeen, Maryland, a twenty six year 1:41:09.000 --> 1:41:12.120 old shot and killed three people at a pharmaceuticals distribution 1:41:12.280 --> 1:41:15.400 center before turning the weapon on themselves. The sheriff said 1:41:15.400 --> 1:41:17.759 the shooter had been diagnosed as mentally ill. In twenty sixteen, 1:41:18.120 --> 1:41:20.839 a close friend reported the shooter quote suffered from bipolar 1:41:20.880 --> 1:41:23.719 disorder and struggled since early in high school with severe depression, 1:41:23.920 --> 1:41:26.439 partly connected to their feelings of not being accepted when 1:41:26.439 --> 1:41:28.880 they first came out as a gay teenage girl and 1:41:29.040 --> 1:41:31.880 later as transgender unquote by most accounts this is the 1:41:31.920 --> 1:41:36.120 transgender guy who began transitioning shortly before the shooting. Pronouns 1:41:36.160 --> 1:41:39.160 and stuff are unclear. They also worked at this distribution 1:41:39.280 --> 1:41:42.120 center a few weeks prior to them doing the shooting. 1:41:42.520 --> 1:41:45.599 This incident's typically not categorized as a mass shooting because 1:41:45.640 --> 1:41:48.000 only three people were killed, excluding the shooter. 1:41:49.439 --> 1:41:49.599 Now. 1:41:49.760 --> 1:41:53.519 One of the more recent attempts at this transgender terrorist 1:41:53.760 --> 1:41:57.120 syop was in the aftermath of the shooting at Joel 1:41:57.160 --> 1:42:01.040 Ostein's megachurch in Houston earlier this February. The shooter was 1:42:01.080 --> 1:42:03.400 a thirty six year old woman carrying her seven year 1:42:03.439 --> 1:42:06.000 old son, sadly, both of whom died along with one 1:42:06.040 --> 1:42:09.240 other person just hours after the shooting. Of far right 1:42:09.280 --> 1:42:13.200 accounts like lips of TikTok and end Wokeness claimed that 1:42:13.640 --> 1:42:16.560 she was transgender, pointing to documents where she used the 1:42:16.680 --> 1:42:20.920 name Jeffrey Now. Chaia Reichek called the shooting quote another 1:42:21.080 --> 1:42:23.960 act of trans terrorism. We need to have a national 1:42:24.040 --> 1:42:28.400 conversation about the LGBTQ movement turning youth into violent extremists. 1:42:28.479 --> 1:42:30.840 Unquote. Didn't she literally say that exact thing with the 1:42:30.960 --> 1:42:33.960 last one? Yeah, they don't even cope with new tweets. 1:42:33.640 --> 1:42:36.799 Like they really just have the same five tweets in rotation. 1:42:37.360 --> 1:42:41.080 Marjorie Taylor Green called her quote a trans from El 1:42:41.240 --> 1:42:47.160 Salvador unquote. Missouri Representative Josh Holly, Marco Rubio, and Elon 1:42:47.240 --> 1:42:50.839 musk All post about this quote unquote epidemic of trans violence. 1:42:51.200 --> 1:42:54.280 These claims were boosted by Donald Trump Junior and Ted Cruz. 1:42:54.800 --> 1:42:57.599 Fox News ran a whole story with a headline about 1:42:57.600 --> 1:43:02.200 the shooter being transgender and guess what, She's not trans. 1:43:02.439 --> 1:43:04.640 She is a cis woman who gave birth to a 1:43:04.760 --> 1:43:08.120 child and has always identified as a woman. It just 1:43:08.320 --> 1:43:11.639 appears that she was given a masculine name at birth 1:43:11.800 --> 1:43:14.680 and later changed it to a more feminine name. The 1:43:14.800 --> 1:43:17.360 far right content sphere created so much uproar that the 1:43:17.400 --> 1:43:19.400 police had to do a whole press conference about how 1:43:19.479 --> 1:43:23.160 the shooter was not trans, and after the Peace lawyers 1:43:23.200 --> 1:43:26.360 clarified she was not trans, Fox News changed their claim, 1:43:26.680 --> 1:43:30.120 now saying on air that the shooter quote identified as 1:43:30.360 --> 1:43:34.400 both genders and was quote a biological woman who sometimes 1:43:34.439 --> 1:43:38.400 identified as a man named Jeffrey unquote, which just isn't true. 1:43:39.360 --> 1:43:40.599 Jesus Christ. 1:43:40.960 --> 1:43:43.240 But the thing about this one is that it wasn't 1:43:43.360 --> 1:43:45.800 just far right influencers in Fox News who ran with 1:43:45.880 --> 1:43:50.760 this transgender narrative. MSNBC jumped on very early to say 1:43:50.760 --> 1:43:54.559 that the shooter was quote a Hispanic transgender woman who 1:43:54.680 --> 1:43:57.879 quote unquote identified as a woman unquote. 1:43:58.320 --> 1:44:02.080 Is totally made up, pure fiction. It's fiction. It's fiction. 1:44:02.600 --> 1:44:03.200 We made it up. 1:44:03.680 --> 1:44:06.160 MSNBC war like MSNB. 1:44:05.880 --> 1:44:12.559 Shit, great great with me, great, great, doing great this morning. 1:44:15.680 --> 1:44:17.160 Do you know what's also doing great? 1:44:17.240 --> 1:44:20.519 Mia? Is it the products and services support this podcast. 1:44:20.680 --> 1:44:24.519 They're pretty consistent. Yeah, they are still around and here 1:44:24.640 --> 1:44:26.360 you can listen to their important messages. 1:44:37.200 --> 1:44:38.920 All right, we are so back. 1:44:40.040 --> 1:44:43.160 So there's so many more cases like the ones that 1:44:43.200 --> 1:44:45.519 I've talked about. Right. The reason I started working on 1:44:45.560 --> 1:44:47.519 this episode in the first place was due to far 1:44:47.600 --> 1:44:50.920 right accounts claiming that a man named Jared Rivierez, who 1:44:51.040 --> 1:44:52.960 killed his seventy year old roommate and went on a 1:44:53.040 --> 1:44:55.960 massive stabbing spree last month outside of an AMC theater 1:44:56.000 --> 1:44:59.400 and a McDonald's Massachusetts, was claimed to be a quote 1:44:59.600 --> 1:45:02.080 mentally ill trans terrorist by limbs. 1:45:01.920 --> 1:45:03.000 Of TikTok and. 1:45:04.479 --> 1:45:09.040 A transactivist quote unquote who's a man who thinks he's 1:45:09.080 --> 1:45:11.800 a woman, which is a line libs of TikTok loves 1:45:11.920 --> 1:45:15.840 using Now. Jared claimed to be an artist in a 1:45:15.920 --> 1:45:20.000 model but was actually like this really weird like grifter entrepreneur. 1:45:20.479 --> 1:45:23.080 He kind of reminds me of that weird Canadian cat 1:45:23.680 --> 1:45:26.880 killer Luke Megnan YadA, who like created a whole bunch 1:45:26.920 --> 1:45:30.519 of fake posts to like pretend to be famous and 1:45:30.600 --> 1:45:34.479 like created like fake fans. It's very similar to this case. 1:45:34.560 --> 1:45:38.439 And later this guy Luke in Canada also killed a 1:45:38.560 --> 1:45:43.800 gay man. Very similar cases. Honestly, Jared here again, he's 1:45:43.880 --> 1:45:47.639 like pretending to be like an international entrepreneur. He looks 1:45:47.680 --> 1:45:51.240 like this weird like hippie surfer dude with long bleached hair. 1:45:51.880 --> 1:45:55.000 Jared's father is a wealthy Christian therapist who looks very 1:45:55.040 --> 1:45:58.160 similar and anti trans influencers have pointed to the word 1:45:58.320 --> 1:46:02.599 she on Jared's Instagram file, but Jared's actual gender identity 1:46:02.760 --> 1:46:05.840 is really unclear. He's never pictured wearing women's clothing. He 1:46:05.840 --> 1:46:10.519 would frequently post shirtless buff selfies. Jared has never claimed 1:46:10.520 --> 1:46:12.880 to be trans or a woman, and has never used 1:46:12.960 --> 1:46:17.240 transgender language or iconography. Jared did file a name change 1:46:17.280 --> 1:46:20.960 request last April, but it was to change his last name. 1:46:21.400 --> 1:46:24.639 He goes by Jared. That same month, April, So two 1:46:24.680 --> 1:46:27.679 months ago, Jared sexually harassed a model at a Beverly 1:46:27.720 --> 1:46:30.040 Hills hotel, saying that he wanted to have kids with 1:46:30.160 --> 1:46:32.800 her and proposed to her, saying, I'm going to be 1:46:32.960 --> 1:46:37.240 a good husband. You're gonna be my wife. Unquote. This 1:46:37.360 --> 1:46:40.799 person simply, we have no no reason to think they're trans. 1:46:41.200 --> 1:46:45.120 They do this, They do like weird like art stuff, 1:46:46.080 --> 1:46:50.639 and I don't know. They're like California, Beverly Hills, poison brained, 1:46:51.040 --> 1:46:53.559 and it seems to they seem to have gone through 1:46:53.640 --> 1:46:56.000 some kind of mental health breakdown which resulted in them 1:46:56.080 --> 1:47:00.120 killing their roommate, two dogs, and stabbing like six or 1:47:00.120 --> 1:47:04.280 seven people in Massachusetts. But another trans terrorist? Sure? 1:47:04.560 --> 1:47:04.880 Why not? 1:47:05.560 --> 1:47:08.000 In January of this year, in Iowa, teenager open fire 1:47:08.200 --> 1:47:11.800 at a school, killing one person and then himself again. 1:47:11.880 --> 1:47:15.360 The usual suspects were super quick to label him as 1:47:15.360 --> 1:47:18.720 another trans terrorist, Elon Musk saying, this is happening a lot. 1:47:18.880 --> 1:47:22.519 Something is deeply wrong. This kid largely seemed like a 1:47:22.640 --> 1:47:26.479 regular gen Z liberal. He listed his pronouns as he they. 1:47:27.360 --> 1:47:30.160 He posted things like nominally in support of trans people. 1:47:30.439 --> 1:47:33.120 He used the hashtag gender fluid a single time in 1:47:33.200 --> 1:47:36.000 a TikTok video filmed with what appears to be a 1:47:36.040 --> 1:47:38.639 trans friend of his. He also posted on Reddit two 1:47:38.680 --> 1:47:41.920 years ago that he didn't want to transition because he 1:47:42.280 --> 1:47:46.719 didn't quote wants to look ugly. He never specifically identified 1:47:46.720 --> 1:47:49.040 as trans. This is just kind of a tragic case. 1:47:49.160 --> 1:47:51.040 I don't know what the deal with this kid was. 1:47:51.200 --> 1:47:56.479 They seemed deeply confused and upset and killed someone and 1:47:56.560 --> 1:48:01.400 then killed themselves. It sucks, but it's not a mass shooting, 1:48:01.479 --> 1:48:05.439 and it doesn't it doesn't link to anything being a 1:48:05.640 --> 1:48:09.680 pattern of transgender terrorism. That does not stop someone like 1:48:09.720 --> 1:48:12.679 Donald Trump Junior is saying, quote, the modern LGBTQ plus 1:48:12.760 --> 1:48:16.120 movement is radicalizing our youth into becoming violent extremists per capita. 1:48:16.439 --> 1:48:18.600 Is there a more violent group of people anywhere in 1:48:18.680 --> 1:48:22.840 the world than radicalized transactivists Given the tiny fraction of 1:48:22.840 --> 1:48:25.000 the population they make up, it doesn't seem like anyone 1:48:25.040 --> 1:48:29.080 else comes even close. We have a lot of claims 1:48:29.160 --> 1:48:32.240 like this, which is why I need to start talking 1:48:32.240 --> 1:48:37.640 about statistics my least favorite thing, because this sort of 1:48:37.680 --> 1:48:40.639 messaging is repeated a lot. We have this post from 1:48:40.680 --> 1:48:43.320 I think Benny Johnson or Donald Trump Junior. I can't 1:48:43.320 --> 1:48:45.960 twelve which one because unfortunately it got deleted before I 1:48:46.080 --> 1:48:48.200 was able to log who did it, so apologies for that. 1:48:48.439 --> 1:48:51.519 But it's a very similar sort of thing, saying there's 1:48:51.520 --> 1:48:54.200 been at least five massive tacks by transgender people since 1:48:54.200 --> 1:48:56.960 twenty eighteen. Considering the group makes up less than point 1:48:57.000 --> 1:49:00.639 five percent of the population, that's a massive overrepresentation. We'll 1:49:00.680 --> 1:49:04.880 get into that in a sec. So boy often when 1:49:05.280 --> 1:49:09.000 these people are talking about this trend of trans mass shooters, 1:49:09.280 --> 1:49:12.479 they're focusing specifically on the period of time between twenty 1:49:12.520 --> 1:49:16.640 eighteen and twenty twenty four because largely a lot of 1:49:16.680 --> 1:49:19.719 conservatives think that trans people were kind of like invented 1:49:19.760 --> 1:49:22.240 around twenty eighteen. That's when they first started to kind 1:49:22.240 --> 1:49:25.920 of like notice that people were trans, which is something 1:49:25.920 --> 1:49:28.040 we've talked about before in terms of like the arc 1:49:28.080 --> 1:49:31.800 of homophobia and transphobia in relation to like gay marriage 1:49:31.840 --> 1:49:33.320 and like a few other things. This is something we've 1:49:33.360 --> 1:49:36.519 reported about consistently on the show. So they're very often 1:49:36.600 --> 1:49:39.680 only looking at data from select years, and as we've 1:49:39.680 --> 1:49:44.160 discussed here, they largely inflate the number of quote unquote 1:49:44.240 --> 1:49:46.719 mass shooters, as well as the number of mass shooters 1:49:46.760 --> 1:49:50.680 who they call transgender. They will often, you know, very 1:49:50.720 --> 1:49:53.080 loosely define what a mass shooting is when it suits them, 1:49:53.320 --> 1:49:56.400 and then very strictly define it when it doesn't. In 1:49:56.479 --> 1:49:59.280 the Blaze article about that Call of Duty pride pack, 1:49:59.400 --> 1:50:02.280 they say quote uote trans identifying suspects. A share of 1:50:02.320 --> 1:50:05.040 public mass shootings nationwide over the twenty eighteen or twenty 1:50:05.080 --> 1:50:08.680 twenty three period is reportedly well over seven times their 1:50:08.720 --> 1:50:12.799 share of the population, which links to a very sketchy 1:50:13.160 --> 1:50:16.560 right wing crime stats website that doesn't publish any of 1:50:16.640 --> 1:50:20.800 their data. So sure, so, there is a few different 1:50:20.800 --> 1:50:23.920 ways to categorize what a mass shooting is. There's no 1:50:24.120 --> 1:50:26.840 universal definition for what makes a mass shooting versus a 1:50:27.040 --> 1:50:30.960 mass killing, so different groups categorize things kind of differently. 1:50:31.840 --> 1:50:34.960 The Mass Killing Database is a partnership between the ap 1:50:35.360 --> 1:50:38.839 USA Today and Northwestern University, and it defines mass killings 1:50:38.920 --> 1:50:42.080 quote as the intentional killing of four or more victims, 1:50:42.200 --> 1:50:45.280 excluding the deaths of unborn children and the offenders by 1:50:45.400 --> 1:50:48.519 any means, within a twenty four hour period. Their database 1:50:48.560 --> 1:50:51.599 currently lists five hundred and ninety such killings since two 1:50:51.680 --> 1:50:55.120 thousand and six. James Allen Fox, professor of criminology and 1:50:55.240 --> 1:50:58.360 law at Northwestern University who manages the database, has said, quote, 1:50:58.680 --> 1:51:01.320 you can count the number of transgender and non binary 1:51:01.360 --> 1:51:06.040 shooters on one hand, they're actually underrepresented unquote, And again 1:51:06.800 --> 1:51:09.680 it's possible that because of how successful the right has 1:51:09.720 --> 1:51:12.280 been at this syop. When you're counting these number of 1:51:12.360 --> 1:51:16.000 transgender non binary shooters on one hand, that's also super 1:51:16.120 --> 1:51:20.880 overrepresented because they're most likely containing like the Colorado spring 1:51:20.960 --> 1:51:23.639 shooter and a lot of these other people. Now, trans 1:51:23.680 --> 1:51:26.599 people on average are reported to make up about one 1:51:26.640 --> 1:51:29.880 percent of the US population, but that number is steadily growing. 1:51:30.120 --> 1:51:31.880 We got to pump those numbers up. Those are rookie 1:51:31.920 --> 1:51:34.000 numbers now. It's also just kind of unclear what that 1:51:34.080 --> 1:51:36.280 number actually is. That's the current one from the US 1:51:36.400 --> 1:51:39.600 Census Bureau, and kind of an average, doubt because a 1:51:39.680 --> 1:51:43.320 lot of stats of like people older than twenty five 1:51:43.520 --> 1:51:45.960 say the numbers at like round zero point five point 1:51:46.040 --> 1:51:49.760 six percent versus people under twenty five reportedly it's like 1:51:49.920 --> 1:51:51.720 one point five percent. So you know, I'm just going 1:51:51.760 --> 1:51:54.439 to say around one percent now under most criterias for 1:51:54.600 --> 1:51:58.880 mass killings. Only one incident, the one in Nashville, qualifies 1:51:59.000 --> 1:52:03.040 for inclusion. Another data source called The Violence Project has 1:52:03.080 --> 1:52:05.960 recorded data on mass shootings in the US since nineteen 1:52:06.040 --> 1:52:09.240 sixty six. They more narrowly define a mass killing as 1:52:09.240 --> 1:52:12.639 four more people killed in a public unconnected to other 1:52:12.800 --> 1:52:16.679 criminal activity. Their current database has one hundred and ninety 1:52:16.720 --> 1:52:20.360 three entries. A spokesperson for their organization told Reuters that 1:52:20.760 --> 1:52:24.240 the twenty twenty three Nashville shooting quote is the first 1:52:24.400 --> 1:52:27.560 case of a trans perpetrator in their database, per their methodology. 1:52:28.280 --> 1:52:31.519 Another more broad data collection project is called the Gun 1:52:31.680 --> 1:52:35.519 Violence Archive. I'm just going to quote from Reuter's heer quote. 1:52:35.760 --> 1:52:38.120 The Gun Violence Archive, which began collecting data on gun 1:52:38.200 --> 1:52:40.840 violence in the US in twenty thirteen, recorded more than 1:52:40.920 --> 1:52:43.519 four thousand and four hundred mass shootings in the last decade. 1:52:43.800 --> 1:52:45.840 Its definition of a mass shooting is four or more 1:52:45.880 --> 1:52:50.000 people shot resulting in injury or death, excluding the perpetrator 1:52:50.479 --> 1:52:52.840 of those quote. The number of known suspects in a 1:52:52.880 --> 1:52:55.720 mass shooting which are trans is under ten for the 1:52:55.800 --> 1:52:59.120 last decade, which translated to zero point one one percent 1:52:59.479 --> 1:53:03.360 of the four four hundred shootings unquote, which is about 1:53:03.439 --> 1:53:06.160 nine times lower than SIS people per capita if we 1:53:06.320 --> 1:53:10.519 use the one percent trans population stat and even using 1:53:10.600 --> 1:53:13.760 the more conservative mass killing data set, the rate of 1:53:13.880 --> 1:53:17.040 this sort of violence by trans people is far lower 1:53:17.160 --> 1:53:20.080 than what would match our population margin. I'm going to 1:53:20.120 --> 1:53:22.000 add in a short quote from the Washington Post to 1:53:22.120 --> 1:53:25.400 kind of add in some context here quote. The gun 1:53:25.479 --> 1:53:28.320 violence Archive methodology would allow for inclusion of the Aberdeen 1:53:28.400 --> 1:53:31.599 and Denver cases, with zero point six percent of the population, 1:53:31.680 --> 1:53:33.920 one would expect at least sixteen mass shootings to be 1:53:33.960 --> 1:53:37.920 conducted by people identifying as trans in the past five years. Instead, 1:53:38.000 --> 1:53:41.439 there are just three possible cases cited by most conservatives unquote. 1:53:41.880 --> 1:53:44.280 So after looking over all of this data, it would 1:53:44.439 --> 1:53:48.240 actually appear that transgender people are less likely to commit 1:53:48.280 --> 1:53:51.560 a mass shooting than CIS people, even by some of 1:53:51.600 --> 1:53:55.000 the more conservative estimates. The other side of this is 1:53:55.040 --> 1:53:58.160 that not only are trans people less likely to you know, 1:53:58.560 --> 1:54:01.160 do this sort of violence, they are way more likely 1:54:01.280 --> 1:54:03.920 to be on the receiving end than sispeople. For the 1:54:04.000 --> 1:54:06.880 National Archive of Criminal Justice data, LGBTQ plus people are 1:54:06.920 --> 1:54:08.360 more than twice as likely to be a victim of 1:54:08.400 --> 1:54:11.320 gun violence than their cisgender and straight peers. According to 1:54:11.360 --> 1:54:14.800 the Human Rights Campaign, twenty nine percent of transgender youth 1:54:14.880 --> 1:54:17.639 have been threatened or injured with a weapon on school property, 1:54:17.920 --> 1:54:20.720 compared to seven percent of cisgender youth. So even for 1:54:20.760 --> 1:54:23.280 school shootings, you are so much, so much more likely 1:54:23.400 --> 1:54:27.280 to face gun violence at school if you are trans, transgender, 1:54:27.320 --> 1:54:30.640 non binary, gender question people have reportedly higher rates of 1:54:30.760 --> 1:54:33.440 being impacted or knowing someone who's been impacted by a 1:54:33.480 --> 1:54:37.840 mass shooting compared to their cisgender queer peers. This is, 1:54:38.000 --> 1:54:40.200 you know, a data average, but it's usually around twenty 1:54:40.200 --> 1:54:42.960 two percent to nineteen percent. And this whole topic gets 1:54:43.000 --> 1:54:46.000 so much more like dark and grounded when you know 1:54:46.040 --> 1:54:48.280 that three hundred and twenty trans people were killed last 1:54:48.360 --> 1:54:51.800 year according to data from the annual Trans Murder Monitoring Report, 1:54:52.240 --> 1:54:54.560 which is like, it's so dark that we even have 1:54:54.720 --> 1:54:57.680 something called the Trans Murder Monitoring Report. 1:54:58.240 --> 1:55:00.560 Also, we need to mention this because I don't think 1:55:00.600 --> 1:55:03.400 people this is really badly understood people who aren't trans. 1:55:03.440 --> 1:55:06.840 But those numbers are always significant undercounts, because yes, those 1:55:06.920 --> 1:55:09.720 projects are people scraping. Basically, news reports are trying to 1:55:09.760 --> 1:55:12.320 find like the families of victims, and there are a 1:55:12.360 --> 1:55:15.200 lot of people who get killed who the only people 1:55:15.240 --> 1:55:17.200 who know are their friends. And those people fucking either 1:55:17.200 --> 1:55:19.440 aren't talking to the press or the precious never like 1:55:20.080 --> 1:55:22.560 covers it, or you know, the police give their dead 1:55:22.640 --> 1:55:24.760 name and never talk about it, so they just are 1:55:24.920 --> 1:55:26.520 dead and everyone thinks they're sis. 1:55:27.080 --> 1:55:27.280 Yep. 1:55:27.520 --> 1:55:30.360 And just in the United States last year, thirty three 1:55:30.400 --> 1:55:32.959 trans people were murdered, and again this is a vast undercount. 1:55:33.080 --> 1:55:35.640 Like Mia said, meanwhile, you have all these people on 1:55:35.680 --> 1:55:38.360 the right who will talk about all of these, all 1:55:38.440 --> 1:55:42.120 these alleged mass shootings by alleged trans people, And one 1:55:42.160 --> 1:55:44.560 of their favorite lines when they try to like affirm 1:55:44.680 --> 1:55:48.360 that a shooter is actually trans is quote watch how 1:55:48.480 --> 1:55:51.760 quickly the story will now disappear unquote, which is just 1:55:52.080 --> 1:55:55.160 ironic for a few reasons. One, because that's how news works, 1:55:55.320 --> 1:55:57.280 is that we move on to a new thing. But 1:55:57.880 --> 1:56:01.280 also it'll probably disappear as well well because they're not 1:56:01.440 --> 1:56:04.400 actually trans, you know, when you're in the case of 1:56:04.480 --> 1:56:08.520 the Uvaldi shooter, in the case of the megachurch shooter 1:56:08.640 --> 1:56:11.760 from last year. Yeah, people move on. But also they're 1:56:11.800 --> 1:56:14.360 not going to keep harping on your weird conspiracy theory 1:56:14.360 --> 1:56:17.280 because it's a weird conspiracy theory. It's not true even 1:56:17.360 --> 1:56:19.320 if this is, even if they were right, which they 1:56:19.360 --> 1:56:21.880 are not. It also is just like imagine in like 1:56:22.000 --> 1:56:24.880 nineteen twenty or like, we have a problematic rise in 1:56:25.040 --> 1:56:27.440 left handed mass shooters. So we're like, well, yeah, because 1:56:27.440 --> 1:56:29.640 there's more left handed people, there's going to be at 1:56:29.720 --> 1:56:33.880 least some level of correlation statistically. Again, these people act 1:56:33.960 --> 1:56:36.280 like trans people were only invented in twenty eighteen and 1:56:36.360 --> 1:56:39.160 are just like slowly like recruiting in numbers, which, hey, 1:56:39.440 --> 1:56:41.760 you know, at least we are kind of slowly recruiting, 1:56:42.240 --> 1:56:44.680 And like the actual goal of this rhetoric, beyond just 1:56:44.840 --> 1:56:48.160 you know, altering the fabric of reality, is to just 1:56:48.400 --> 1:56:51.280 encourage violence against trans people. That is what they're doing. 1:56:51.720 --> 1:56:53.880 It's to see trans people as a threat that you 1:56:54.520 --> 1:56:57.520 feel justified in doing violence against them. Just a few 1:56:57.560 --> 1:57:01.840 weeks ago, a very popular gun YouTuber made this joke 1:57:01.920 --> 1:57:05.720 where they were talking about, you know, getting ready to 1:57:05.920 --> 1:57:09.760 shoot a tea word and they stopped and they were like, oh, sorry, 1:57:09.840 --> 1:57:14.040 I mean a school shooter. Wink wink. So like they're 1:57:14.080 --> 1:57:17.200 trying to use school shooter to be a dog whistle 1:57:17.320 --> 1:57:20.120 for trans people This is all just to justify violence. 1:57:20.160 --> 1:57:23.000 That's all this is doing, and to some degree it's working. 1:57:23.320 --> 1:57:26.120 Just last week, a trans kid was assaulted in the 1:57:26.160 --> 1:57:30.160 men's bathroom at school and reportedly one of their teeth exploded. 1:57:30.840 --> 1:57:33.440 This was a trans girl who was using the men's 1:57:33.480 --> 1:57:36.120 bathroom like all of these freaks want them to, and 1:57:36.240 --> 1:57:38.920 she still got assaulted. I think it's super important when 1:57:38.920 --> 1:57:41.920 talking about this sort of unreality propaganda is that like 1:57:42.760 --> 1:57:46.000 these people like Limbs of TikTok and Miles Schong, they're 1:57:46.080 --> 1:57:49.560 not just like falling further into a delusional conspiracy theory. 1:57:49.600 --> 1:57:52.160 Same thing with Elon Musk, Right, it's easy. I think 1:57:52.160 --> 1:57:54.160 it's easy to be like, oh, they just actually like 1:57:54.560 --> 1:57:59.080 legitimately are like falling into this like conspiratorial delusion. 1:57:59.400 --> 1:58:00.760 And it's not that. 1:58:01.400 --> 1:58:04.600 What it is is they are actually intentionally crafting reality. 1:58:04.960 --> 1:58:09.160 It's not them like falling victim to this like unfortunate delusion. 1:58:09.440 --> 1:58:11.760 They are choosing which a version of reality to believe 1:58:11.800 --> 1:58:14.240 in because it's the one that they want, and that's 1:58:14.240 --> 1:58:16.480 what they're doing, and they want it to be a 1:58:16.520 --> 1:58:20.840 reality where more people feel comfortable assaulting and killing trans people. 1:58:21.200 --> 1:58:23.160 That's that's the actual goal of its propaganda. 1:58:23.720 --> 1:58:26.160 We need to be very clear about this, about what's 1:58:26.200 --> 1:58:29.600 sort of happening here, which is one of the fastest 1:58:29.760 --> 1:58:32.680 ways to get a group of people to commit a 1:58:32.760 --> 1:58:35.160 genocide is by convincing them that they are all about 1:58:35.200 --> 1:58:35.720 to be killed. 1:58:35.920 --> 1:58:36.040 Right. 1:58:36.480 --> 1:58:38.160 This is one of the things behind this or behind 1:58:38.160 --> 1:58:40.520 the Bosnian genocide, This is one of the things behind Rwanda. 1:58:41.360 --> 1:58:42.160 Is if you can. 1:58:42.080 --> 1:58:44.120 Convince a lot of people that their neighbors are about 1:58:44.120 --> 1:58:46.880 to fucking kill them, that's how you get them to 1:58:46.920 --> 1:58:48.800 do the genocide. Because the thing that they believe is 1:58:48.880 --> 1:58:50.960 that like, oh, this is self defense, Like these people 1:58:50.960 --> 1:58:53.560 are about to kill us, and that is the kind 1:58:53.600 --> 1:58:57.080 of reality tunnel being mobilized here is a is it 1:58:57.120 --> 1:59:00.200 called genocide? And the other side of this that I 1:59:00.240 --> 1:59:01.720 think is so grim is that there used to be 1:59:01.800 --> 1:59:04.320 a time as a society where you know, we attempted 1:59:04.520 --> 1:59:06.560 to explain why there are mass shootings. 1:59:07.360 --> 1:59:07.480 Right. 1:59:07.840 --> 1:59:10.200 This is something that I remember living through. Like if 1:59:10.240 --> 1:59:12.800 you go back to like twenty sixteen, two thousand, seventeen, 1:59:12.840 --> 1:59:15.880 twenty fifteen, like we used to there used to be 1:59:16.000 --> 1:59:21.040 people other than these just like genocidal fascists attempting to 1:59:21.200 --> 1:59:26.080 explain why why these shootings were happening. The actual data 1:59:26.160 --> 1:59:28.400 on transmass shooters and how few of them there are 1:59:29.000 --> 1:59:31.800 is quietly devastating to a lot of the theories that 1:59:31.920 --> 1:59:34.040 used to be sort of bandied about, right, the theories 1:59:34.040 --> 1:59:36.160 that this was about sort of objection, the theory that 1:59:36.200 --> 1:59:39.120 this was about this, you know, like sort of de 1:59:39.200 --> 1:59:41.920 industrialization and like the consequences that this has had on 1:59:42.000 --> 1:59:43.280 people that there were you know, it was this sort 1:59:43.280 --> 1:59:45.920 of like downward social mobility that was causing this violence. Right, 1:59:45.960 --> 1:59:47.880 If any of that were true, there would be a 1:59:47.920 --> 1:59:51.760 fucking million mass shooters, because again, the transpoverty rate is 1:59:52.800 --> 1:59:55.120 like it's it's it's a rits around thirty percent, right, 1:59:55.200 --> 1:59:56.640 for the rest of the country it is like a 1:59:56.760 --> 1:59:59.320 quarter as well, it's that quarter. It's like a third 1:59:59.440 --> 2:00:04.600 of that much, which right, there should be if it 2:00:04.760 --> 2:00:08.360 was just purely a product of like material conditions, there 2:00:08.400 --> 2:00:10.560 would be a lot more transmitted shooters. But there aren't 2:00:10.640 --> 2:00:13.400 because again, you know, the actual theory that fits this 2:00:13.640 --> 2:00:18.120 data and fits also the behavior of all of these people, 2:00:18.280 --> 2:00:20.080 like all of these sort of fascists trying to explain 2:00:20.120 --> 2:00:22.760 mass shootings as being about trans people. The thing that 2:00:22.840 --> 2:00:25.040 it fits is this is the theory that this is 2:00:25.120 --> 2:00:27.400 basically the replacement of clan rallies. Right, we don't have 2:00:27.560 --> 2:00:30.320 we don't have collective lynchings anymore. We have individual ones. 2:00:31.520 --> 2:00:33.680 And all of these fucking people are trying to make 2:00:33.720 --> 2:00:36.959 sure that there's just more lynchings and that these lynchings 2:00:37.040 --> 2:00:39.920 are you know, is like it's there their sort of 2:00:40.120 --> 2:00:42.760 like armed follower fanatics go and shoot a bunch more 2:00:42.800 --> 2:00:45.920 trans people in a nclub, and then you know, once 2:00:46.000 --> 2:00:48.160 that happens, they will disavow it by saying, oh, hey, 2:00:48.280 --> 2:00:51.280 this this this nightclub shooting was this is actually done 2:00:51.320 --> 2:00:54.000 by a fucking transperson. They'll keep doing this until they 2:00:54.080 --> 2:00:56.560 have enough political power to openly come out and claim 2:00:56.800 --> 2:00:59.320 that all of these people were their fucking revolutionary heroes 2:01:00.040 --> 2:01:02.600 in their nude fucking pantheon of the fascist state. 2:01:03.240 --> 2:01:05.120 And there was that trans boy who was assaulted in 2:01:05.320 --> 2:01:08.400 the bathroom a few months ago and died days later 2:01:08.480 --> 2:01:12.000 in the hospital. There's this this It keeps happening. And 2:01:12.120 --> 2:01:14.680 I didn't want this to be like a depressing episode. 2:01:14.720 --> 2:01:17.760 I wanted this to break down a conspiracy theory I've 2:01:17.760 --> 2:01:20.560 been seeing more frequently talk about you know what's fueling 2:01:20.640 --> 2:01:23.360 it actually go over the instances that are included in 2:01:23.480 --> 2:01:27.120 it to kind of you know, debunk for lack of 2:01:27.200 --> 2:01:30.480 a better term, uh, this sort of rhetoric, and just 2:01:30.520 --> 2:01:32.040 so you can be more aware of it when you 2:01:32.160 --> 2:01:34.920 see it, because often you'll see this this you know, 2:01:35.200 --> 2:01:38.840 this meme with five five pictures, you'll see a copy 2:01:38.920 --> 2:01:43.000 pasta version of it. So just just being aware of 2:01:43.280 --> 2:01:45.480 what this is, what the what this rhetoric is trying 2:01:45.520 --> 2:01:50.320 to do, and the you know, unfortunate fact that trans 2:01:50.400 --> 2:01:53.480 people are form are far far more likely to be 2:01:53.600 --> 2:01:56.879 a victim of gun violence and mash and mass shootings 2:01:58.320 --> 2:02:02.400 than they ever then then say people and are actually 2:02:02.480 --> 2:02:07.720 less likely to participate in such violence statistically speaking. So yeah, 2:02:07.800 --> 2:02:10.720 that is the episode today. Not meant to be depressing, 2:02:10.920 --> 2:02:13.280 just meant to be informative. But you know, when it 2:02:13.360 --> 2:02:15.880 comes to me, those things often overlap. 2:02:16.440 --> 2:02:17.400 Any such cases. 2:02:17.680 --> 2:02:19.840 I hope you have, I hope you have a good 2:02:19.920 --> 2:02:22.200 Pride month, Stay safe and stay dangerous. 2:02:35.520 --> 2:02:38.080 Hello and welcome to it could happen here. This is 2:02:38.240 --> 2:02:40.880 Sharene and today we are going to be talking about 2:02:40.920 --> 2:02:43.680 the current quote unquote peace plan that was presented by 2:02:43.720 --> 2:02:46.400 the US and what they say is their attempt to 2:02:46.560 --> 2:02:49.680 end the genocide in Lesse. They call it a war, 2:02:49.800 --> 2:02:51.840 and I call it what it is, which is a genocide. 2:02:52.640 --> 2:02:55.640 Earlier this month, Joe Biden announced what he claimed was 2:02:55.680 --> 2:02:58.960 an Israeli peace plan to bring about an eventual ceasefire 2:02:59.000 --> 2:03:02.400 in Jse. But according to journalists and anyone with eyes, 2:03:02.920 --> 2:03:06.360 the new plan is almost indistinguishable from previous plans proposed 2:03:06.360 --> 2:03:09.200 by Hamas. We're going to get into the details of 2:03:09.240 --> 2:03:11.400 the US plan in a little bit, but first I 2:03:11.520 --> 2:03:14.720 want to address the immense loss of Palestinian life that 2:03:14.840 --> 2:03:18.160 has led up to this plan, because if the plan 2:03:18.320 --> 2:03:21.240 is successful, it would usher in a ceasefire to a 2:03:21.320 --> 2:03:25.280 genocide that has killed more than thirty seven thousand Palestinians, 2:03:25.520 --> 2:03:28.280 which is a very low estimate, and the majority of 2:03:28.360 --> 2:03:32.320 these deaths are women and children. Not only have Palestinian 2:03:32.440 --> 2:03:36.440 children been brutally slaughtered for months, but Razza now has 2:03:36.520 --> 2:03:41.320 the largest population of child amputees in the world. In November, 2:03:41.480 --> 2:03:44.640 children in Razza hosted a press conference in English to 2:03:44.800 --> 2:03:49.160 beg the world for life. It's June now, and all 2:03:49.200 --> 2:03:52.960 we've seen since then is massacre after massacre. And while 2:03:53.000 --> 2:03:55.160 I think drawing attention to the children and the women 2:03:55.200 --> 2:03:58.600 who have been slaughtered is immensely necessary and important. I 2:03:58.680 --> 2:04:02.120 also want to emphasize that Palestinian men are not expendable, 2:04:02.480 --> 2:04:04.920 and not mentioning the immense loss that we have suffered 2:04:04.920 --> 2:04:08.240 across the board with men included, implies to the world 2:04:08.320 --> 2:04:11.200 that Arab men are not worth mourning, not worth saving 2:04:11.320 --> 2:04:14.720 nor protecting, that they are all terrorists or terrorists to 2:04:14.760 --> 2:04:18.080 be who are simply killed as casualties in the quote 2:04:18.160 --> 2:04:21.840 fog of war. I also think that the mention of 2:04:21.920 --> 2:04:24.720 children is specifically used as a way to at least 2:04:24.880 --> 2:04:28.640 try to make the world empathize and fucking feel something 2:04:28.720 --> 2:04:32.160 about the lives that have been stolen. Parents literally hold 2:04:32.360 --> 2:04:36.200 up the limp and decapitated bodies of their babies in 2:04:36.280 --> 2:04:40.760 its broadcasts worldwide, and yet the dehumanization of Arabs runs 2:04:40.960 --> 2:04:44.880 so deep that such graphic displays of horror and death 2:04:45.120 --> 2:04:49.680 are considered normal. No one bats an eye. It is 2:04:49.760 --> 2:04:53.320 insane that two hundred and seventy four Palestinians were slaughtered 2:04:53.440 --> 2:04:55.680 for four prisoners of war who could have been released 2:04:55.720 --> 2:04:59.320 in a prisoner exchange exchanges and deals that Israel has 2:04:59.360 --> 2:05:02.440 repeatedly red. We will get into this more in this episode, 2:05:03.240 --> 2:05:06.960 and people are celebrating this shameful military operation which US 2:05:07.040 --> 2:05:10.040 troops were a part of, and ignoring the Palestinians that 2:05:10.120 --> 2:05:13.920 were killed and murdered in the process, further emphasizing that 2:05:14.040 --> 2:05:18.200 Palestinian life is not as important as Israeli life by 2:05:18.240 --> 2:05:21.560 a huge margin. In in case you didn't hear the 2:05:21.600 --> 2:05:24.600 details about this operation that I'm talking about, US and 2:05:24.720 --> 2:05:29.320 Israeli troops infiltrated a refugee camp in trucks disguised as 2:05:29.440 --> 2:05:34.200 humanitarian aid to trojan horse their way into further massacrering 2:05:34.320 --> 2:05:39.080 and maiming people who were already being forcibly starved. Are 2:05:39.120 --> 2:05:43.400 you hearing this one more time? They infiltrated a refugee 2:05:43.520 --> 2:05:49.720 camp and trucks disguised as humanitarian aid. Israeli special forces 2:05:49.760 --> 2:05:53.440 were also disguised as Palestinian refugees looking for a place 2:05:53.520 --> 2:05:56.240 to live when they entered the buildings where they thought 2:05:56.240 --> 2:06:00.200 the hostages were being held. Remember in January, and there 2:06:00.240 --> 2:06:02.800 was also video evidence of the IOF pretending to be 2:06:02.920 --> 2:06:05.840 medical staff in a hospital and then shooting and killing 2:06:05.920 --> 2:06:09.120 unarmed doctors, nurses, and patients. Oh, and then there was 2:06:09.200 --> 2:06:13.240 the discovery of at least three mass graves at Elsheffa hospital, 2:06:13.480 --> 2:06:17.160 where bodies, including many wearing scrubs, were found zip tied 2:06:17.240 --> 2:06:20.720 and buried in piles. Israel has been doing this for 2:06:20.880 --> 2:06:23.920 months and years and decades, and they've been getting away 2:06:24.000 --> 2:06:28.360 with it for months and years and decades. No one 2:06:28.480 --> 2:06:31.080 is hiding how they feel anymore. They are out here 2:06:31.200 --> 2:06:34.760 showing us with their actions. It's not ambiguous, it is 2:06:34.880 --> 2:06:38.640 not confusing. They are making it very simple. They are 2:06:38.720 --> 2:06:43.160 making it crystal clear. Palestinians do not matter, and Israel's 2:06:43.160 --> 2:06:47.520 intention is to continue their ethnic cleansing of Palestine. What's 2:06:47.560 --> 2:06:50.360 happening in Gliza is not about the hostages, and it 2:06:50.440 --> 2:06:53.600 has never been about the hostages. If that isn't clear 2:06:53.680 --> 2:06:56.040 to you by now, you have not been paying attention 2:06:57.280 --> 2:07:01.880 a few things about the hostages. Hamas has repeatedly offered 2:07:01.920 --> 2:07:05.080 since last year to release all hostages in exchange for 2:07:05.240 --> 2:07:09.960 Israel releasing all Palestinian prisoners. As of November first, according 2:07:10.000 --> 2:07:14.600 to Human Rights Watch, Israel held nearly seven thousand Palestinians 2:07:14.640 --> 2:07:17.320 in its prisons, and many of those held captive by 2:07:17.440 --> 2:07:21.200 Israel are not convicted of any crime. At least three 2:07:21.320 --> 2:07:24.320 thousand and six hundred and sixty Palestinians being held in 2:07:24.480 --> 2:07:29.760 Israel are under what is called administrative detention. An administrative 2:07:29.840 --> 2:07:33.520 detainee is someone held in prison without charge nor trial, 2:07:34.440 --> 2:07:38.400 without charge, no crime committed. I want to take a 2:07:38.480 --> 2:07:41.240 moment to bring up a report that came out recently 2:07:41.400 --> 2:07:44.880 that's not getting nearly enough attention. It's truly horrific, and 2:07:44.920 --> 2:07:46.920 I don't know how people are just glossing over it. 2:07:47.680 --> 2:07:51.640 But New York Times recently reported that Palestinians are being 2:07:51.720 --> 2:07:55.480 tortured and abused in Israeli prisons. Two journalists from the 2:07:55.480 --> 2:07:58.840 New York Times spent three months interviewing Israeli soldiers as 2:07:58.880 --> 2:08:02.600 well as Palestinians were detained at one particular prison. I'm 2:08:02.640 --> 2:08:04.120 not going to pretend I know how to pronounce it. 2:08:04.480 --> 2:08:09.720 It's spelled sde space Tei m An said Teman. I'm 2:08:09.720 --> 2:08:12.400 just going to go with that. But essentially, Israel is 2:08:12.440 --> 2:08:16.120 carrying out a policy of systematic torture in this army base, 2:08:16.640 --> 2:08:19.160 and this army base has been used as a detention 2:08:19.280 --> 2:08:22.440 camp for Palestinians from the Gaza Strip. This was all 2:08:22.520 --> 2:08:26.240 confirmed by a New York Times investigation. Reports of abuse 2:08:26.280 --> 2:08:28.840 at this site had already emerged in both Israeli and 2:08:28.880 --> 2:08:32.240 Arab media, and this was followed by outcries from local 2:08:32.320 --> 2:08:36.839 and international rights groups about the horrific conditions there. Apparently, 2:08:36.960 --> 2:08:40.360 it was mainly used as a quote makeshift interrogation center, 2:08:40.920 --> 2:08:43.240 but now it has become a major focus for the 2:08:43.320 --> 2:08:47.640 accusations that the Israeli military has mistreated its detainees, including 2:08:47.720 --> 2:08:50.760 people who were later determined to have no ties to 2:08:50.880 --> 2:08:54.760 Hamas or any other armed groups. The investigation revealed that 2:08:54.840 --> 2:08:57.760 at least twelve hundred Palestinian civilians were detained at this 2:08:57.920 --> 2:09:01.480 site in quote demeaning condition, without the ability to plead 2:09:01.520 --> 2:09:03.960 their cases to adjudge for up to seventy five days, 2:09:04.480 --> 2:09:07.800 and additionally denied access to lawyers for up to ninety days. 2:09:08.560 --> 2:09:12.000 Eight former detainees, all of whom the military confirmed were 2:09:12.080 --> 2:09:15.240 held at the site and spoke on the record, said 2:09:15.280 --> 2:09:19.240 they had been punched, kicked, and beaten with batons, rifle butts, 2:09:19.480 --> 2:09:22.000 and a handheld metal detector while they were in custody. 2:09:22.640 --> 2:09:24.880 Others said that they had been forced to wear a 2:09:25.040 --> 2:09:28.720 diaper while being interrogated, and that they had received electric 2:09:28.840 --> 2:09:32.720 shocks during their interrogation. According to the new York Times. 2:09:32.960 --> 2:09:36.360 Most of these testimonies were corroborated by interviews conducted by 2:09:36.440 --> 2:09:40.800 officials from the unr WA, the UN Agency for Palistine Refugees. 2:09:41.640 --> 2:09:45.960 The agency interviewed hundreds of returning detainees who reported widespread 2:09:46.040 --> 2:09:49.720 abuse at this site, as well as other Israeli detention facilities, 2:09:50.040 --> 2:09:53.200 including the beatings and the use of an electric probe. 2:09:54.000 --> 2:09:56.960 An Israeli soldier who served at this site also disclosed 2:09:56.960 --> 2:09:59.560 to The New York Times that his fellow soldiers often 2:09:59.640 --> 2:10:03.560 bragged about beating detainees, and he observed many instances of 2:10:03.640 --> 2:10:07.280 such treatment. He was speaking on condition of anonymity to 2:10:07.360 --> 2:10:10.440 avoid prosecution, but he said a detainee had been taking 2:10:10.520 --> 2:10:13.680 for treatment at the site's makeshift field hospital with a 2:10:13.760 --> 2:10:17.040 bone that had been broken during his detention, while another 2:10:17.160 --> 2:10:20.480 person was briefly taken out of sight and then returned 2:10:20.720 --> 2:10:23.960 with bleeding around his rib cage. I strongly urge you 2:10:24.120 --> 2:10:26.720 to read the New York Times piece in full. It 2:10:26.840 --> 2:10:30.040 details the most horrific things I've read in recent memory. 2:10:31.160 --> 2:10:31.560 I would be. 2:10:31.600 --> 2:10:34.200 Remiss to not mention at least a few of them, 2:10:34.360 --> 2:10:38.160 just to understand the severity. But this report essentially proves 2:10:38.360 --> 2:10:43.000 that Palestinians are experiencing sexual violence and have experienced sexual 2:10:43.160 --> 2:10:49.440 violence in Israeli prisons. This is one example. Mister el Hamloui, 2:10:49.680 --> 2:10:53.080 a senior nurse, said a female officer had ordered two 2:10:53.200 --> 2:10:56.720 soldiers to lift him up and press his rectum against 2:10:56.760 --> 2:11:00.280 a metal stick that was fixed to the ground. He 2:11:00.400 --> 2:11:03.760 said the stick penetrated his rectum for roughly five seconds, 2:11:03.920 --> 2:11:07.120 causing it to bleed and leaving him in unbearable pain. 2:11:07.960 --> 2:11:12.120 A leaked draft of the UNRWA report detailed at interview 2:11:12.240 --> 2:11:15.080 that gave a similar account. It cited a forty one 2:11:15.200 --> 2:11:18.280 year old detainee who said that interrogators made him sit 2:11:18.400 --> 2:11:21.520 on something like a hot metal stick that felt like fire, 2:11:22.040 --> 2:11:24.920 and he said that another detainee died after they put 2:11:25.040 --> 2:11:29.879 the electric stick up his anus. Doctor Elhemlaui also recalled 2:11:29.920 --> 2:11:32.840 being forced to sit in a chair wired with electricity. 2:11:33.360 --> 2:11:36.560 He said he was shocked so often that after initially 2:11:36.760 --> 2:11:41.760 urinating uncontrollably, he then stopped urnating for several days. He 2:11:41.880 --> 2:11:44.320 said that he too had been forced to wear nothing 2:11:44.360 --> 2:11:47.200 but a diaper to stop him from soiling the floor. 2:11:47.960 --> 2:11:51.680 Ibrahim Shaheen, thirty eight, a truck driver, He said he 2:11:51.800 --> 2:11:54.600 was shocked roughly half a dozen times while sitting in 2:11:54.680 --> 2:11:58.680 a chair. Officers had accused him of concealing information about 2:11:58.680 --> 2:12:01.720 the location of dead hostage, which ended up having no 2:12:01.840 --> 2:12:05.280 connection to him at all. Another man, mister Beckett, said 2:12:05.320 --> 2:12:07.120 that he was also forced to sit in a chair 2:12:07.320 --> 2:12:10.680 wired with electricity, sending a current pulsing through his body 2:12:11.000 --> 2:12:15.160 that made him pass out. Mister Beckett also said, along 2:12:15.200 --> 2:12:18.720 with other detainees that corroborated this, he only received roughly 2:12:18.840 --> 2:12:23.320 three meager snacks on most days, mostly bred with small 2:12:23.400 --> 2:12:27.560 quantities of cheese or jam or tuna. The military said 2:12:27.600 --> 2:12:30.840 the food provisions had been approved by an authorized nutritionist 2:12:30.920 --> 2:12:34.120 in order to maintain their health, but according to several 2:12:34.160 --> 2:12:37.240 of these detainees, that's not nearly enough, and they lost 2:12:37.320 --> 2:12:41.760 more than forty pounds during their detention. Again, I urge 2:12:41.800 --> 2:12:44.880 you to read the report in full. It needs more 2:12:44.880 --> 2:12:49.440 attention than is getting. But it is horrific and this 2:12:49.600 --> 2:12:54.160 is proof of the vile mistreatment of Palestinians. And it's 2:12:54.480 --> 2:12:56.760 from the New York Times. If you need a source 2:12:56.800 --> 2:12:59.040 that you quote unquote trust more than an El Jazeera 2:12:59.160 --> 2:13:01.440 or something which makes most But for those who do 2:13:02.560 --> 2:13:16.000 there it is Now, let's go back to the topic 2:13:16.040 --> 2:13:18.760 at hand. We were talking about the hostages and how 2:13:18.800 --> 2:13:21.720 Hamas had offered many times in the past to release 2:13:21.760 --> 2:13:25.880 all the hostages in exchange for releasing Palestinian prisoners, and 2:13:26.000 --> 2:13:30.040 despite Hamasa's offers, Israel has never agreed to any deal 2:13:30.400 --> 2:13:35.120 which involves the release of all Israeli hostages. On October ninth, 2:13:35.440 --> 2:13:39.600 two days after October seventh, Hamas offered to release all 2:13:39.680 --> 2:13:43.000 the civilian hostages in exchange for the io F not 2:13:43.360 --> 2:13:47.840 entering the Gaza Strip, but Israel rejected that offer, and 2:13:47.960 --> 2:13:51.280 many hostages have died since then, which could have been 2:13:51.400 --> 2:13:56.440 avoided if Israel cared. A few stats, one hundred and 2:13:56.560 --> 2:13:59.800 five Israeli hostages were freed via a temporary ceasefire, and 2:13:59.800 --> 2:14:03.320 no November of last year, four other hostages were released 2:14:03.320 --> 2:14:07.520 by Hamas. Three hostages were killed by IOF quote friendly 2:14:07.640 --> 2:14:11.000 fire because the IOF considered them a threat as they 2:14:11.040 --> 2:14:15.760 were waving white flags. During four Israeli quote rescue missions, 2:14:16.320 --> 2:14:20.240 one hostage was killed one soldier was saved in what 2:14:20.400 --> 2:14:24.160 Israel called Operation Golden Hand. On February twelfth of this year, 2:14:24.640 --> 2:14:28.400 two hostages were saved and at least ninety four Palestinians 2:14:28.520 --> 2:14:31.680 were killed, and then on June eighth, what is now 2:14:31.800 --> 2:14:36.120 being called Operation Are None, four Israeli hostages were rescued 2:14:36.320 --> 2:14:39.880 and at least two hundred and seventy four Palestinians were killed. 2:14:40.680 --> 2:14:44.360 In a statement released after the attack, Hamas said, in 2:14:44.480 --> 2:14:48.160 exchange for them the four Israeli hostages, your own army 2:14:48.320 --> 2:14:51.200 killed three of your own captives in the same attack, 2:14:51.680 --> 2:14:55.840 one of them holding a US citizenship. And it must 2:14:55.880 --> 2:14:58.720 be mentioned that the Israeli attacks on Leisa have also 2:14:58.840 --> 2:15:01.880 killed an unknown number of hostages and have mass captivity, 2:15:02.240 --> 2:15:05.360 as well as the at least thirty seven thousand Palestinians 2:15:05.440 --> 2:15:09.480 killed since October seventh. Relentlessly bombing a tiny strip of 2:15:09.600 --> 2:15:13.440 land or Israel knows its hostages are located, doesn't really 2:15:13.520 --> 2:15:16.360 indicate that Israel gives a shit about the lives of 2:15:16.400 --> 2:15:20.360 the hostages. The hostages are pawns being used in a 2:15:20.440 --> 2:15:25.320 disgusting political game. And I have seen several unhinged and 2:15:25.520 --> 2:15:29.200 deranged comments about this latest operation, which again killed two 2:15:29.280 --> 2:15:32.920 hundred seventy four Palestinians, including children, in the process of 2:15:33.000 --> 2:15:37.920 saving four hostages. The comments range and severity and psychopathy 2:15:38.200 --> 2:15:40.480 but a lot of them are basically saying how else 2:15:40.520 --> 2:15:43.400 were they supposed to get the hostages back? And Israel 2:15:43.480 --> 2:15:46.120 must rescue its people by any means necessary, and that 2:15:46.360 --> 2:15:48.200 this is what you get when you mess with Israel. 2:15:49.360 --> 2:15:52.440 But after reading the previous numbers, it is an absolute 2:15:52.560 --> 2:15:55.720 fact that the only mass release of hostages has come 2:15:55.840 --> 2:16:00.280 through ceasefire and prisoner exchanges. More hostages have been killed 2:16:00.280 --> 2:16:04.040 by the Israeli army then rescued by them. A ceasefire 2:16:04.120 --> 2:16:08.120 deal means freed hostages without mass death. And so if 2:16:08.240 --> 2:16:11.680 Israel really cared about the lives of these hostages, why 2:16:11.840 --> 2:16:14.800 on earth wouldn't they agree to a deal that can 2:16:14.880 --> 2:16:18.160 guarantee their safety. I want to take a quick tangent 2:16:18.320 --> 2:16:20.760 only to mention that the number of Palestinians killed in 2:16:20.920 --> 2:16:24.959 Raze is most likely far, far greater than the reported 2:16:25.040 --> 2:16:28.280 number because the infrastructure that was used to document the 2:16:28.360 --> 2:16:31.800 death toll has been decimated, along with nearly everything else 2:16:31.920 --> 2:16:35.480 in Lessee. The number thirty seven thousand also does not 2:16:35.600 --> 2:16:39.600 include the thousands and thousands of Palestinians buried underneath rubble 2:16:39.840 --> 2:16:43.720 who are unable to be found nor retrieved. The Health 2:16:43.800 --> 2:16:47.640 Ministry's director of International Cooperation in the West Bank. Doctor 2:16:47.760 --> 2:16:52.119 Yassir Bozzia says he works closely with Ministry colleagues in Raze. 2:16:52.720 --> 2:16:55.200 When he spoke with NPR in late January from his 2:16:55.240 --> 2:16:58.640 office in Ramalala, he said and estimated ten thousand people 2:16:58.760 --> 2:17:01.800 were missing and presumed dead under the rubble in Rasee, 2:17:02.640 --> 2:17:05.840 but even that number was low. It's like a snowball, 2:17:05.920 --> 2:17:09.320 he said. It's only an estimation. The actual number is 2:17:09.560 --> 2:17:13.760 much much higher. Bozia and doctors Andrezze say the death 2:17:13.840 --> 2:17:17.320 count published by the Health Ministry also largely excludes people 2:17:17.360 --> 2:17:20.520 who have died from a lack of adequate treatment, disease, 2:17:20.840 --> 2:17:24.200 and other impacts from the war, like hunger. The death 2:17:24.320 --> 2:17:29.200 toll only includes people killed by the occupation bombardment, he said. 2:17:29.800 --> 2:17:33.279 The Health Ministry describes its casualty figures as those resulting 2:17:33.400 --> 2:17:37.440 from Israeli aggression. Bozzias is a colleague in Raze, told 2:17:37.520 --> 2:17:39.720 him that the only way to really know how many 2:17:39.760 --> 2:17:42.120 people have died is to count the number of people 2:17:42.280 --> 2:17:46.400 still alive compared with the population of Raze before October seventh. 2:17:47.120 --> 2:17:50.480 He said that because of the continued brutal genocide going 2:17:50.520 --> 2:17:53.760 on in Rasee, it is impossible to have the real number. 2:17:54.480 --> 2:17:57.480 It will only be revealed after the violence has stopped. 2:17:58.720 --> 2:18:01.160 The death toll also does not make clear how many 2:18:01.240 --> 2:18:04.920 militants are among the dead. Israel says its forces have 2:18:05.040 --> 2:18:08.360 killed more than ten thousand fighters in Razze, but Israel 2:18:08.400 --> 2:18:11.280 has also not provided any sort of evidence or detailed 2:18:11.280 --> 2:18:14.880 information to back up its estimate. In every interview, every 2:18:15.000 --> 2:18:18.720 Israeli correspondent or spokesperson has given they always given number 2:18:18.800 --> 2:18:22.000 for the estimated fighters or terrorists killed in Razze, but 2:18:22.080 --> 2:18:25.000 they're very unsure about how many civilians have been killed. 2:18:25.480 --> 2:18:27.480 And now to go back to the US peace plan 2:18:27.600 --> 2:18:31.080 that is basically identical to previous peace plans proposed by 2:18:31.200 --> 2:18:35.199 and agree to buy Hamas. What does this US plan propose? 2:18:36.240 --> 2:18:39.880 This plan has three stages. The first stage proposes to 2:18:40.040 --> 2:18:43.480 involve a six week ceasefire, during which the Israeli army 2:18:43.520 --> 2:18:47.560 will withdraw from the populated areas of Razze. Hostages, including 2:18:47.600 --> 2:18:50.840 the elderly and women, would be exchanged for hundreds of 2:18:50.920 --> 2:18:55.279 Palestinian prisoners. Civilians would also return to all of Braze 2:18:55.680 --> 2:18:59.920 with six hundred trucks carrying humanitarian aid flooding the enclaved 2:19:00.040 --> 2:19:03.680 daily Biden said. The second phase would see Hamas and 2:19:03.840 --> 2:19:08.640 Israel negotiate terms for a permanent end to hostilities. Biden 2:19:08.720 --> 2:19:12.080 said the cease fire will still continue as long as 2:19:12.200 --> 2:19:17.440 negotiations continue. In the third phase, a permanent ceasefire would follow, 2:19:17.760 --> 2:19:22.120 facilitating the reconstruction of the Resids Strip, including sixty percent 2:19:22.200 --> 2:19:26.920 of clinics, schools, universities, and religious buildings damaged or destroyed 2:19:26.959 --> 2:19:31.560 by Israeli forces. This plan is nearly identical to a 2:19:31.680 --> 2:19:35.120 previous plan that Hamas had already agreed to on May sixth, 2:19:35.400 --> 2:19:38.640 a deal which Israel ended up rejecting. We will talk 2:19:38.720 --> 2:19:41.400 more about that deal later on, but for now, let's 2:19:41.440 --> 2:19:44.520 focus on the US's pleasiarized version of this plan and 2:19:44.680 --> 2:19:48.080 who supports it. But first let's take an ad break 2:19:48.240 --> 2:20:01.560 and we'll be read back, Okay, And we are back. 2:20:02.000 --> 2:20:05.080 So soon after the announcement of the US deal, Hamas 2:20:05.160 --> 2:20:08.160 said that it views the proposals in this deal positively. 2:20:09.080 --> 2:20:13.880 This week, US Secretary of State Anthony Blincoln o'tool arrived 2:20:13.879 --> 2:20:16.080 in the Middle East on his latest trip to the region, 2:20:16.320 --> 2:20:19.800 which he said will focus on Washington's Gaza truce proposal 2:20:20.080 --> 2:20:23.600 and the future of the Palestinian territory. B Lincoln met 2:20:23.640 --> 2:20:27.720 Egyptian President Elssi and Cairo on Monday, repeating US calls 2:20:27.760 --> 2:20:31.480 for Hamas to accept the true deal. Speaking to reporters 2:20:31.560 --> 2:20:35.960 before leaving Egypt, b Lincoln squarely blamed Hamas for prolonging 2:20:36.080 --> 2:20:39.720 the quote unquote war, saying that Hamas is an outlier 2:20:39.800 --> 2:20:42.240 in the region for not agreeing to the US deal. 2:20:42.879 --> 2:20:47.080 He told reporters my message to governments throughout the region, 2:20:47.320 --> 2:20:50.199 to people throughout the region, if you want to cease fire, 2:20:50.520 --> 2:20:55.520 press Hamas to say yes. Blincoln arrived in Israel later 2:20:55.600 --> 2:20:58.440 on that same day and met with Nan Yahoo. He 2:20:58.520 --> 2:21:01.320 will further hold talks and thought in Jordan this week. 2:21:02.160 --> 2:21:06.120 The State Department said. Blinkn reaffirmed the quote ironclad US 2:21:06.200 --> 2:21:10.560 commitment to Israel's security during his meeting with Nanyahu. A 2:21:10.720 --> 2:21:13.920 curious note is that while Blinkn portrayed the truce plan 2:21:14.000 --> 2:21:17.680 as Biden's proposal, when Biden made the deal public initially, 2:21:17.840 --> 2:21:21.040 he said it was an Israeli plan. This could be 2:21:21.240 --> 2:21:24.360 just a little slip because Biden is very old, or 2:21:24.440 --> 2:21:26.560 it could be a slip that just confirms what we've 2:21:26.600 --> 2:21:29.320 all known to be the case all along, that the 2:21:29.480 --> 2:21:32.039 US and Israel are one and the same, especially when 2:21:32.080 --> 2:21:35.560 it comes to their political interests in military power, and 2:21:35.680 --> 2:21:39.359 while US officials have insisted that Israel agreed to this proposal, 2:21:39.879 --> 2:21:43.600 various Israeli officials, including the n YAHOO, have vowed to 2:21:43.680 --> 2:21:48.959 continue fighting until the elimination of Hamas. Just days before 2:21:49.000 --> 2:21:52.680 Biden announced his initiative, a top Israeli officials said the 2:21:52.760 --> 2:21:56.320 military would fight in Jez until at least the end 2:21:56.480 --> 2:22:00.200 of the year. On the other hand, Hamas has said 2:22:00.240 --> 2:22:02.039 that it will only agree to a deal that would 2:22:02.120 --> 2:22:04.280 lead to a lasting end to the war and the 2:22:04.400 --> 2:22:08.920 full withdrawal of Israeli troops from Raze. Hamas reiterated its 2:22:08.959 --> 2:22:12.520 position on Monday after its political chief Ismael Haniyeh, met 2:22:12.560 --> 2:22:16.240 with officials from the Palestinian Islamic Jihad, a smaller armed 2:22:16.280 --> 2:22:21.039 group in Duha. Hamas said in a statement the two 2:22:21.160 --> 2:22:25.760 delegations discussed the indirect negotiations and efforts to end the war, 2:22:26.280 --> 2:22:31.199 stressing that any agreement must include a permanent ceasefire, complete 2:22:31.200 --> 2:22:35.600 withdrawal from the Gaza Strip, reconstruction, ending the siege, and 2:22:35.760 --> 2:22:40.640 a serious prisoner's exchange. Hamas previously called for a explicit 2:22:40.720 --> 2:22:45.360 commitment from Israel to a lasting ceasefire, and despite the 2:22:45.480 --> 2:22:49.600 lack of clarity in the Israeli position, Biden administration officials 2:22:49.680 --> 2:22:53.360 have repeatedly said that Hamas is the only hurdle to 2:22:53.560 --> 2:22:57.040 ending the war in Gaza. The US blaming Hamas for 2:22:57.200 --> 2:22:59.760 prolonging what it calls a quote unquote war again not 2:22:59.800 --> 2:23:04.240 a war a genocide is ridiculous. Hamas has accepted previous 2:23:04.320 --> 2:23:08.360 peace deals. It has offered previous peace deals. Israel has 2:23:08.400 --> 2:23:11.119 been the one to reject them, and then the US 2:23:11.240 --> 2:23:14.920 comes along and just repackages one of these previously agreed 2:23:14.959 --> 2:23:18.440 on deals that Hamas had endorsed, and has the audacity 2:23:18.520 --> 2:23:23.879 to then blame Hamas for obstructing peace. Give me a break. Additionally, 2:23:24.080 --> 2:23:26.880 the US truce plan does not outline plans for the 2:23:27.040 --> 2:23:30.160 future of Gaza after the war, but the US government 2:23:30.200 --> 2:23:32.400 has said that it would not accept Hamas rule in 2:23:32.480 --> 2:23:36.600 the territory. The Biden administration says it wants a quote 2:23:36.760 --> 2:23:41.520 reformed Palestinian Authority aka the PA to eventually govern Gaza, 2:23:42.160 --> 2:23:45.519 but the Israeli government has ruled out allowing the occupied 2:23:45.560 --> 2:23:49.760 West Bank based PA to govern Huzzi with Nan Yahoo 2:23:49.920 --> 2:23:52.360 like in k Fata, the dominant faction in the PA 2:23:52.800 --> 2:23:57.160 to Hamas. Other support for the plan has come from 2:23:57.400 --> 2:23:59.960 some Israeli politicians, as well as the families of the 2:24:00.120 --> 2:24:05.280 hostages and the international community. Benny Gantz, a centrist member 2:24:05.360 --> 2:24:08.959 of Israel's three man war Cabinet and Prime Minister Benjamin 2:24:09.240 --> 2:24:13.600 Yahu's principal rival, spoke positively of the proposal and asked 2:24:13.640 --> 2:24:16.320 his two colleagues in the war cabinet, Nan Yahoo and 2:24:16.360 --> 2:24:20.200 Defense Minister Yoev Galant, to convene to discuss the quote 2:24:20.280 --> 2:24:24.040 next steps. Gance had previously threatened to leave the cabinet 2:24:24.080 --> 2:24:26.840 by June eighth if no plan for Gaza beyond the 2:24:26.920 --> 2:24:30.240 war had been agreed on, and on Sunday, June ninth, 2:24:30.680 --> 2:24:35.360 he officially announced his resignation. Gans's resignation does not immediately 2:24:35.480 --> 2:24:38.800 pose a threat to Natanyahu, who still controls a majority 2:24:38.879 --> 2:24:42.000 coalition in Parliament, but it does mean that the Israeli 2:24:42.120 --> 2:24:45.720 leader becomes more heavily reliant on his far right allies. 2:24:46.520 --> 2:24:49.680 Gantz said that the Enyahu was making quote total victory 2:24:49.720 --> 2:24:52.560 impossible and that the government needs to put a return 2:24:52.680 --> 2:24:56.040 of the hostages seized on October seventh by Hamas above 2:24:56.240 --> 2:25:00.600 political survival. Gans is a popular former military chief, and 2:25:00.680 --> 2:25:03.440 he joined the n Yahoo's government shortly after the Hamas 2:25:03.480 --> 2:25:07.160 attack in a show of unity. His presence also boosted 2:25:07.280 --> 2:25:11.520 Israel's credibility with its international partners. Gance has good working 2:25:11.600 --> 2:25:15.760 relations with US officials. Ganz canceled a planned news conference 2:25:15.840 --> 2:25:18.840 the night of June eighth after the Forestraeli hostages were 2:25:18.879 --> 2:25:21.880 rescued from Gaza earlier in the day, which again was 2:25:22.000 --> 2:25:27.080 Israel's largest operations since October. Another reminder that two hundred 2:25:27.120 --> 2:25:29.800 and seventy four palest Indians, including children, were killed in 2:25:29.840 --> 2:25:33.680 the assault. Another Israeli politician who supported the US peace 2:25:33.760 --> 2:25:37.320 plan was opposition leader Yard Lapid, who also promised to 2:25:37.320 --> 2:25:40.880 support the plan, pledging support of his party yesh Atid, 2:25:41.160 --> 2:25:44.360 which translates from Hebrew to there is a future if 2:25:44.480 --> 2:25:49.760 those from ultranationalists and far right parties withdraw support. United 2:25:49.840 --> 2:25:54.160 Nations Secretary General Antonia Gutierrez also endorsed the plan, as 2:25:54.280 --> 2:25:58.120 have many of Israel's political allies, including the UK and Germany. 2:25:59.120 --> 2:26:02.320 So who doesn't like the plan. Much of the opposition 2:26:02.480 --> 2:26:05.560 to the peace plan has come from within the Israeli cabinet, 2:26:06.360 --> 2:26:09.600 n Enyahu said any initiative that did not include a 2:26:09.760 --> 2:26:13.520 quote elimination of Hamas's capacity to govern and make war 2:26:13.879 --> 2:26:17.240 was a non starter. In his announcement on Friday May 2:26:17.360 --> 2:26:21.039 thirty first, Biden seemed to indicate that he regarded Hamas's 2:26:21.080 --> 2:26:24.280 presence within Gaza to have been so downgraded that a 2:26:24.360 --> 2:26:29.720 repeat of October seventh was impossible. As expected, the ultranationalists 2:26:29.800 --> 2:26:32.880 and extreme right members of the nyahu's right wing coalition, 2:26:33.280 --> 2:26:37.240 which includes it Tamar Bengavie and Bezileel Simotric, threatened to 2:26:37.360 --> 2:26:40.480 withdraw from the government and cause its collapse if the 2:26:40.560 --> 2:26:45.560 proposals were accepted. So as far as Israel's politics are concerned, 2:26:45.879 --> 2:26:48.440 it seems like the outcome may end up depending on 2:26:48.520 --> 2:26:54.200 what El Jazeira describes as quote parliamentary arithmetic. The far 2:26:54.400 --> 2:26:58.720 right in ultranationalist parties hold fourteen seats, while Ganza's block 2:26:58.800 --> 2:27:01.920 only has eight seats. Meeting the far right has far 2:27:02.080 --> 2:27:04.640 more influence on a prime minister who wants to stay 2:27:04.680 --> 2:27:09.480 in power. As for Lapid, his seventeen seats are offered 2:27:09.520 --> 2:27:12.840 as support only in what pertains to the peace proposals. 2:27:14.280 --> 2:27:17.320 This leaves that n YAHOO reliant on the far right block. 2:27:18.440 --> 2:27:21.119 As far as the deal being accepted, that is still 2:27:21.280 --> 2:27:25.280 not clear. Despite what the US says. The families of 2:27:25.360 --> 2:27:28.240 Israeli hostages are putting pressure on the government to accept 2:27:28.280 --> 2:27:31.560 the deal, as are some parts of Israel's political class, 2:27:32.520 --> 2:27:35.320 but pressures to reject the deal are just as strong, 2:27:35.560 --> 2:27:38.240 and it will remain to be seen whether Natanyahu chooses 2:27:38.280 --> 2:27:41.840 his own survival or the return of the hostages. But 2:27:41.959 --> 2:27:44.680 if one thing is clear, it is that Netanyahu does 2:27:44.760 --> 2:27:48.480 not really care about the hostages because the IOF under 2:27:48.520 --> 2:27:52.080 his command, continues to bombard areas where the hostages can 2:27:52.160 --> 2:27:54.640 be held. And may remind you that the IOWEF have 2:27:54.720 --> 2:27:58.440 already killed Israeli hostages that they have mistakenly identified as threats. 2:27:59.280 --> 2:28:03.760 Speaking of threats, I'm kidding. There is no ad break 2:28:03.800 --> 2:28:05.600 and there is no threat. That's the end of part one, 2:28:05.840 --> 2:28:07.680 and if you want to listen to part two, tune 2:28:07.720 --> 2:28:10.560 in tomorrow. Talking about the history of Hamas and how 2:28:10.680 --> 2:28:29.440 we got here. So yeah, see e then three Palestine, Hello, 2:28:29.560 --> 2:28:31.760 and welcome back to it could happen here. This is 2:28:31.920 --> 2:28:35.840 Sharen and today we are continuing our conversation from yesterday 2:28:36.200 --> 2:28:39.400 where we talked about the US proposed peace deal for 2:28:39.560 --> 2:28:43.760 Hamas and Israel that looks suspiciously like a deal Hamas 2:28:43.800 --> 2:28:45.800 had already agreed to just a few weeks before that, 2:28:46.320 --> 2:28:49.600 and Israel did not agree to. We had ended part 2:28:49.640 --> 2:28:53.080 one talking about how the IOF literally killed their own 2:28:53.120 --> 2:28:56.640 hostages when they mistakenly thought they were threats, and I 2:28:56.800 --> 2:28:59.720 ended saying speaking of threats, and I'm going to continue 2:28:59.800 --> 2:29:04.360 because that's what professionals do. So since October seventh, Israel 2:29:04.440 --> 2:29:08.160 has described Hamas as an existential threat, saying that it 2:29:08.240 --> 2:29:11.080 needs to destroy the group and won't stop the violence 2:29:11.120 --> 2:29:14.119 in Gaza until it does so. But I would argue 2:29:14.200 --> 2:29:17.320 that most people who are pro Israel or Western Zionists 2:29:17.360 --> 2:29:20.920 in general don't actually know anything about Hamas other than 2:29:21.000 --> 2:29:23.120 thinking they're this big, bad evil that has to be 2:29:23.200 --> 2:29:26.200 eradicated by the quote only democracy in the Middle East, 2:29:26.520 --> 2:29:28.600 which I hope by this point people realize is a 2:29:28.680 --> 2:29:32.280 sick joke. Hamas is suddenly being talked about on every 2:29:32.360 --> 2:29:35.920 news channel, and anything even remotely pro Palestine is now 2:29:36.040 --> 2:29:39.360 labeled as pro Hamas, when most people in this country, 2:29:39.400 --> 2:29:41.640 I would argue, most likely had never even heard of 2:29:41.680 --> 2:29:47.039 Hamas before October seventh. Labeling something as pro Hamas truly 2:29:47.480 --> 2:29:51.200 just means nothing as far as Israel's concerned, the UN 2:29:51.320 --> 2:29:55.400 is Hamas. In May, Israel's ambassador to the UN, Galad Erdan, 2:29:55.640 --> 2:29:58.160 said in an interview with Israel's Army Radio that the 2:29:58.280 --> 2:30:02.440 UN has quote turned into a collaborator with Hamas, maybe 2:30:02.480 --> 2:30:06.840 even more than that, a terror organization unto itself. Wow, 2:30:07.840 --> 2:30:10.680 Israeli leadership has just continued to one up themselves when 2:30:10.760 --> 2:30:13.880 it comes to saying the most insane fucking shit. And then, 2:30:13.920 --> 2:30:17.400 according to Zionists, the college campus protests that were calling 2:30:17.480 --> 2:30:20.480 for a literal end to genocide are also pro Hamas. 2:30:21.240 --> 2:30:24.520 Earlier this month, a lawsuit was filed in Virginia by 2:30:24.560 --> 2:30:27.560 a US law firm and an Israeli legal group who 2:30:27.600 --> 2:30:31.160 have teamed up to suit two organizations involved in recent 2:30:31.280 --> 2:30:35.800 college campus protests, the American Muslims for Palestine and National 2:30:35.879 --> 2:30:39.720 Students for Justice in Palestine. They accused these groups of 2:30:39.879 --> 2:30:44.160 collaborating with Hamas to serve as their quote propaganda division. 2:30:44.240 --> 2:30:47.920 In the US. Arson of Trowski, the CEO of the 2:30:48.000 --> 2:30:51.400 International Legal Forum, who was working with this US legal 2:30:51.440 --> 2:30:55.480 team of Greenberg Taig and the National Jewish Advocacy Center, 2:30:55.959 --> 2:30:58.720 he called the American Muslims for Palestine and the National 2:30:58.760 --> 2:31:00.960 Students for Justice in Palestine, as well as all the 2:31:01.040 --> 2:31:05.160 protesters supporting Palestine, most of whom are students as quote 2:31:05.240 --> 2:31:08.760 the foot soldiers of Hamas. If I was going to 2:31:08.840 --> 2:31:11.720 go through everything that Israel and Zionists have labeled US 2:31:11.760 --> 2:31:15.440 pro Hamas, this episode would never end. But I hope 2:31:15.440 --> 2:31:18.240 it's clear that this label and accusation isn't based on 2:31:18.360 --> 2:31:21.280 any real sort of evidence or proof, and it is 2:31:21.400 --> 2:31:24.800 only a way to scare people into blindly supporting Israel 2:31:24.920 --> 2:31:28.920 in quote defending itself big quotes there against this growing 2:31:29.040 --> 2:31:33.080 evil spreading across the globe and invading our campuses, when 2:31:33.160 --> 2:31:37.400 in reality, there would be no Hamas without Israel. Although 2:31:37.440 --> 2:31:41.120 Hamas eventually grew into being the most active armed resistance 2:31:41.200 --> 2:31:44.240 group in Gaza, it definitely didn't start that way and 2:31:44.360 --> 2:31:46.440 it wouldn't have even had the power to grow the 2:31:46.520 --> 2:31:49.200 way it did if it weren't for intentional actions by 2:31:49.320 --> 2:31:53.480 Israeli leadership that started decades ago. Before we get into 2:31:53.560 --> 2:31:55.920 a timeline of the Resa Hamas peace deals that have 2:31:56.080 --> 2:31:58.520 led to this very similar deal at the US proposed 2:31:59.040 --> 2:32:01.840 all deals that again Israel has rejected I want to 2:32:01.879 --> 2:32:04.400 make sure we at least have an understanding of what Hamas, 2:32:04.440 --> 2:32:08.520 even is Hamas, which is an Arabic acronym for Islamic 2:32:08.600 --> 2:32:12.040 resistance movement, would not exist today if it wasn't for Israel. 2:32:12.760 --> 2:32:15.879 American and Israeli politicians are always saying the same thing, 2:32:16.280 --> 2:32:19.920 how dangerous and evil Hamas is, without mentioning how Israel 2:32:19.959 --> 2:32:24.080 itself helped create Hamas. The TLDR of it all is 2:32:24.160 --> 2:32:27.800 that Israeli's helped turn a bunch of fringe Palestinian Islamists 2:32:27.879 --> 2:32:30.680 in the late nineteen seventies into one of the world's 2:32:30.760 --> 2:32:34.560 most notorious militant groups. Is in a conspiracy theory, It's 2:32:34.560 --> 2:32:38.480 a confirmed fact. Former Israeli officials, such as Brigadier General A. 2:32:38.640 --> 2:32:41.879 Sak Sagev, who was the Israeli military governor in Gaza 2:32:41.920 --> 2:32:44.800 in the early nineteen eighties, have openly spoken about this. 2:32:45.600 --> 2:32:48.600 After his tenure, Segev told a New York Times reporter 2:32:48.800 --> 2:32:52.400 that he had helped finance the Palestinian Islamist movement as 2:32:52.480 --> 2:32:56.360 a quote counterweight to secularists and leftists of the Palestine 2:32:56.400 --> 2:33:00.480 Liberation Organization aka the PLO, as well as the fut Party, 2:33:00.720 --> 2:33:04.360 which was led by Yaser Arafat. Arafat too referred to 2:33:04.440 --> 2:33:08.920 Hamas as quote a creature of Israel. Hamas was officially 2:33:09.000 --> 2:33:11.240 founded in nineteen eighty seven, at the start of the 2:33:11.320 --> 2:33:16.280 First Palestinian Intefada, or uprising against the Israeli occupation, but 2:33:16.400 --> 2:33:21.160 its beginnings actually started much earlier. Hama's founder, Sheikh ahmadia Sin, 2:33:21.360 --> 2:33:24.200 was a member of the Muslim Brotherhood. The Brotherhood had 2:33:24.240 --> 2:33:27.640 been repressed by Egyptians in Gaza prior to nineteen sixty seven, 2:33:28.160 --> 2:33:31.160 but once the Israelis invaded and occupied the Gaza Strip, 2:33:31.600 --> 2:33:35.840 they chose to encourage this group of extremist Islamists. The 2:33:35.959 --> 2:33:38.960 dominant Palestinian political force in Palestine at the time was 2:33:39.040 --> 2:33:42.160 the PLO, and it was deemed a threat to Israel, 2:33:42.560 --> 2:33:46.720 and so Israel sought to undermine its power. The PLO 2:33:47.000 --> 2:33:50.119 is a nationalist coalition which was centered around the secular 2:33:50.200 --> 2:33:54.800 FATA party led by Yasser Arafat. By empowering a scene 2:33:54.879 --> 2:33:57.840 in the Muslim Brotherhood, Israel thought they could divide the 2:33:57.920 --> 2:34:01.480 occupied Palestinian people and eventually rule over them by playing 2:34:01.560 --> 2:34:08.040 them against each other secular nationalists versus religious Islamists. In 2:34:08.160 --> 2:34:12.560 nineteen seventy eight, Yasine wanted to officially register his Islamic Association, 2:34:12.959 --> 2:34:16.520 which was basically the precursor to present day Hamas. The 2:34:16.680 --> 2:34:19.680 Israelis jumped on the opportunity to help make this happen. 2:34:20.320 --> 2:34:24.040 Yasine built and grew a network of Islamists social institutions 2:34:24.080 --> 2:34:28.920 across Gaza, funded largely by Israel. Avnar Cohen is a 2:34:29.080 --> 2:34:32.400 former Israeli religious affairs official who worked in Gaza for 2:34:32.480 --> 2:34:35.400 more than two decades. In two thousand and nine, he 2:34:35.560 --> 2:34:38.959 told the Wall Street Journal Hamas to my great regret, 2:34:39.440 --> 2:34:44.080 is Israel's creation. Back in the mid nineteen eighties, Cohen 2:34:44.160 --> 2:34:47.440 even wrote an official report to his superiors warning them 2:34:47.560 --> 2:34:50.600 not to play divide and rule in the occupied territories 2:34:50.879 --> 2:34:55.840 by backing Palestinian Islamists against the Palestinian Secularists. He wrote 2:34:55.840 --> 2:34:59.800 in his report, I suggest focusing our efforts on finding 2:35:00.320 --> 2:35:05.040 to break up this monster before reality jumps in our face. Clearly, 2:35:05.200 --> 2:35:08.000 his superiors did not listen to him, and Hamas was 2:35:08.040 --> 2:35:12.560 the result. To be clear, Israelis had helped build up 2:35:12.680 --> 2:35:16.119 a militant strain of extremist political Islam in the form 2:35:16.160 --> 2:35:19.440 of Hamas and its Muslim Brotherhood precursors and allowed it 2:35:19.600 --> 2:35:22.600 free reign in order to quiet any chance of progress 2:35:22.680 --> 2:35:26.160 in Palestine, and then when it became convenient for their 2:35:26.200 --> 2:35:30.480 desionist narrative, the Israelis tried to bomb, besiege and blockade 2:35:30.480 --> 2:35:34.800 it out of existence. David Hashem, a former Arabs affairs 2:35:34.879 --> 2:35:37.520 expert in the Israeli military who was based in President 2:35:37.520 --> 2:35:41.440 in the nineteen eighties, said the original sin was Israel's 2:35:41.440 --> 2:35:44.960 support of Ya Seine in the nineteen seventies. He said, 2:35:45.280 --> 2:35:47.440 when I look back at the chain of events, I 2:35:47.560 --> 2:35:50.600 think we made a mistake. But at the time, nobody 2:35:50.640 --> 2:35:56.160 thought about the possible results. Yeah, no shit. The only 2:35:56.240 --> 2:35:59.240 American politician that I know of who has ever referenced 2:35:59.280 --> 2:36:02.840 how Israel is responsible for Hamas's creation is Ron Paul. 2:36:03.680 --> 2:36:05.840 In two thousand and one on the floor of the House, 2:36:06.120 --> 2:36:10.200 Ron Paul said Hamas was encouraged and really started by 2:36:10.320 --> 2:36:15.600 Israel because they wanted Hamas to counteract Yasser Arafat. Speaking 2:36:15.640 --> 2:36:18.880 of Arafat, not only did he himself tell an Italian 2:36:18.959 --> 2:36:22.320 newspaper that Hamas is a creature of Israel, he also 2:36:22.440 --> 2:36:26.280 said that the former Israeli Prime Minister Yasakrabien admitted this 2:36:26.400 --> 2:36:30.800 to him, calling it a quote fatal error. Yasine was 2:36:30.879 --> 2:36:33.800 eventually assassinated by an Israeli air strike in Gaza on 2:36:33.879 --> 2:36:37.840 March twenty second, two thousand and four. Sylvan Shalom, former 2:36:37.959 --> 2:36:41.560 Israeli Vice Prime minister, said after Yasine's death that quote 2:36:41.680 --> 2:36:45.720 sche Yassin and his organization Hamas are responsible for the 2:36:45.840 --> 2:36:49.760 killings of more than four hundred Israelis, when actually no 2:36:50.480 --> 2:36:55.440 Israel is clearly largely responsible. David Long, a former Middle 2:36:55.440 --> 2:36:58.400 East expert in the US State Department under Ronald Reagan, 2:36:58.720 --> 2:37:02.360 told journalist Robert dry I thought the Israelis were playing 2:37:02.480 --> 2:37:06.320 with fire. This, of course, is not a unique development, 2:37:06.560 --> 2:37:09.520 as there have been dozens of instances of unneeded and 2:37:09.680 --> 2:37:13.760 malignant US intervention in other countries for its own gain, 2:37:15.440 --> 2:37:18.440 and since then Hamas has killed far more Israelis than 2:37:18.480 --> 2:37:22.760 any secular Palestinian militant group. Israel built up ye Scene 2:37:22.879 --> 2:37:26.120 and Hamas as a rival to Arafat's Fatah, then they 2:37:26.200 --> 2:37:29.480 killed Yasne, and then they doubled down in making Hamas 2:37:29.760 --> 2:37:33.720 Israel's worst enemy, an enemy it would use to justify 2:37:33.879 --> 2:37:37.000 to the entire world that it was not only okay, 2:37:37.160 --> 2:37:41.560 but necessary to control and massacre millions of Palestinians. In 2:37:41.640 --> 2:37:45.560 the process of destroying this threat, Israel spent more than 2:37:45.600 --> 2:37:48.920 twenty years helping build up Hamas and then spent another 2:37:49.040 --> 2:37:53.240 twenty years trying to destroy it. All of this is 2:37:53.280 --> 2:37:56.360 to say that, aside from the purposeful assistance from Israel 2:37:56.440 --> 2:37:59.680 and creating Hamas, that Hamas wouldn't even exist if it 2:37:59.800 --> 2:38:03.240 was for the Israeli occupation. There would be no resistance 2:38:03.560 --> 2:38:07.680 because without the ethnic cleansing and forced violent occupation, there 2:38:07.680 --> 2:38:21.400 would be nothing to resist. In the process of bolstering 2:38:21.440 --> 2:38:25.240 this militant group, Hamas also became the main armed force 2:38:25.400 --> 2:38:28.840 behind the Palestinian resistance, and many view Hamas as the 2:38:29.000 --> 2:38:32.680 only group even attempting to defend Palestinians in the face 2:38:32.720 --> 2:38:37.880 of Israeli occupation. And the organization itself has changed over 2:38:37.959 --> 2:38:41.240 the years, especially in the last decade, it seems like 2:38:41.320 --> 2:38:45.080 Hamas was and is increasingly trying to establish a more 2:38:45.120 --> 2:38:50.600 favorable status quo for the Palestinian people. Hamas's leaders were 2:38:50.680 --> 2:38:54.120 shaped by the hard realities of a brutal occupation, which 2:38:54.240 --> 2:38:57.880 was marked by mass arrests of Palestinians. The expropriation of 2:38:57.920 --> 2:39:02.040 Palestinian lands and control of their resources. More than half 2:39:02.120 --> 2:39:05.960 a million Palestinians were arrested and tried in Israel's military 2:39:06.080 --> 2:39:09.440 run courts between nineteen sixty seven and nineteen eighty seven, 2:39:09.959 --> 2:39:14.160 and over fifteen hundred Palestinian homes were demolished and thousands 2:39:14.160 --> 2:39:19.439 of Palestinians were forcibly deported aka ethnically cleansed. After HAMAS 2:39:19.480 --> 2:39:22.080 won the two thousand and six elections in Gaza, its 2:39:22.160 --> 2:39:24.960 leader Hanija said the group accepted a state on the 2:39:25.040 --> 2:39:28.160 nineteen sixty seven borders, as well as all the decisions 2:39:28.200 --> 2:39:30.880 taken by the PA and the PLO, but there were 2:39:30.959 --> 2:39:34.880 no takers. HAMAS leaders also backed the two thousand and 2:39:34.959 --> 2:39:38.560 two era Peace Initiative that called for the following the 2:39:38.680 --> 2:39:42.959 withdrawal of Israeli forces from territories occupied in nineteen sixty seven, 2:39:43.640 --> 2:39:46.800 the right of Palestinian refugees to return to the homes 2:39:46.840 --> 2:39:50.080 they had been forcibly displaced from since nineteen forty eight, 2:39:50.480 --> 2:39:54.480 and the formation of a sovereign, independent Palestinian state in 2:39:54.640 --> 2:40:00.360 return for air recognition of Israel. But Hamasa's offers heatedly 2:40:00.440 --> 2:40:04.480 dismissed by Israel and ignored by Israel's Western allies, including 2:40:04.520 --> 2:40:08.160 the US, despite Washington's claims of playing the role of 2:40:08.240 --> 2:40:12.960 a quote honest broker in the conflict. Tarek Baconi, author 2:40:13.040 --> 2:40:17.080 of Hamas contained the Rise and Pacification of Palestinian resistance, 2:40:17.280 --> 2:40:20.680 told Al Jazeera Hamas has always said that they are 2:40:20.760 --> 2:40:24.080 ready to offer a truce and to stop targeting civilians 2:40:24.160 --> 2:40:28.440 if the Israeli occupation removes its settlers. At least seven 2:40:28.560 --> 2:40:32.560 hundred and fifty thousand Israelis live in hundreds of fortified 2:40:32.640 --> 2:40:37.000 illegal settlements and outposts across the occupied Palestinian territories of 2:40:37.080 --> 2:40:40.280 the West Bank and East Jerusalem, the vast majority of 2:40:40.360 --> 2:40:44.200 which are again built illegally, either entirely or partially on 2:40:44.360 --> 2:40:49.520 private Palestinian land, and thus they violate international law. One 2:40:49.560 --> 2:40:53.400 of the more infuriating and frankly incredibly stupid talking points 2:40:53.480 --> 2:40:56.280 that Zionists have when it comes to talking about Hamas 2:40:57.000 --> 2:40:59.959 is the two thousand and six election where Palestinians ala 2:41:00.000 --> 2:41:04.200 elected Hamas as they're appointed leadership. I want to remind 2:41:04.240 --> 2:41:07.720 every one of a few things. The Gaza strip has 2:41:07.800 --> 2:41:11.720 a very young population. Most of the inhabitants in Gaza 2:41:12.200 --> 2:41:17.640 are under fifteen years old. The largest population group in 2:41:17.760 --> 2:41:22.360 Gaza are children between the ages of five and nine 2:41:22.720 --> 2:41:27.400 years old. This population wasn't even born yet, let alone 2:41:27.440 --> 2:41:31.080 old enough to vote in two thousand and six. And Furthermore, 2:41:31.240 --> 2:41:34.320 leadership does not indicate your right to live a life, 2:41:35.080 --> 2:41:38.320 your right to not be killed. If you're in America 2:41:38.720 --> 2:41:41.680 and Trump is your elected president and you hate Trump 2:41:41.760 --> 2:41:45.040 and maybe other foreign entities hate Trump, do you deserve 2:41:45.280 --> 2:41:45.720 to die? 2:41:46.480 --> 2:41:47.920 No, you don't. 2:41:49.440 --> 2:41:52.320 The resistance fighters in Hamas are not the ones who 2:41:52.400 --> 2:41:55.360 wrote the original charter. They're not the ones who establish 2:41:55.400 --> 2:41:58.600 Hamas in the first place. They're young people that are 2:41:58.720 --> 2:42:04.000 joining the most active armed resistance to defend Palestine. It's 2:42:04.040 --> 2:42:08.560 their only option, and Palestinians have tried other non violent 2:42:08.680 --> 2:42:12.960 forms of resistance against this occupation. In twenty eighteen to 2:42:13.080 --> 2:42:16.160 twenty nineteen, there was something called the Great March of Return. 2:42:17.120 --> 2:42:20.359 It started on March thirtieth, twenty eighteen, and ended December 2:42:20.400 --> 2:42:24.760 twenty seventh of twenty nineteen. Every Friday for those years, 2:42:25.120 --> 2:42:29.560 Palestinians in Gaza demonstrated and protested along the border fence 2:42:29.680 --> 2:42:32.600 between Israel and Gaza for a right to return to 2:42:32.680 --> 2:42:36.000 their homes. And to demand an end to the Israeli 2:42:36.080 --> 2:42:41.160 blockade in Gaza. During this time, the Israeli army killed 2:42:41.200 --> 2:42:45.280 a total of two hundred and twenty three people. Over 2:42:45.440 --> 2:42:49.000 thirty six hundred and one thousand people, including nearly eight 2:42:49.120 --> 2:42:53.039 thousand and eight hundred children, were injured. This is after 2:42:53.240 --> 2:42:57.600 a peaceful attempt at demonstrating, after a peaceful attempt at 2:42:57.680 --> 2:43:01.680 trying to resist occupation, their still shot and killed. They're 2:43:01.680 --> 2:43:05.640 shot with the intention to kill. Expecting Palestinians to be 2:43:05.760 --> 2:43:09.880 pacifists when it comes to resisting a brutal, violent occupation 2:43:10.080 --> 2:43:13.720 that has been now almost a century long is very 2:43:13.800 --> 2:43:19.320 small minded and entitled and frankly wrong. Palestinians have their 2:43:19.440 --> 2:43:24.360 right to resist. Armed resistance is legal under international law. 2:43:24.400 --> 2:43:27.560 When it comes to resisting and occupying power. What does 2:43:27.600 --> 2:43:30.400 this mean? Maybe you've heard that train of thought before. 2:43:30.800 --> 2:43:33.360 Let me explain it to you. Let's go back in 2:43:33.440 --> 2:43:36.600 time a little bit. The General Assembly of the United 2:43:36.720 --> 2:43:40.320 Nations the UNGA, which was once described as the collective 2:43:40.400 --> 2:43:43.320 conscious of the world, noted the right of peoples to 2:43:43.400 --> 2:43:48.160 self determination, independent and human rights as early as nineteen 2:43:48.240 --> 2:43:51.960 seventy four Resolution three three one four of the UNNGA 2:43:52.320 --> 2:43:58.320 prohibited states from any military occupation, however temporary hum curious 2:43:58.520 --> 2:44:01.840 Israel has been doing that for now. In the relevant 2:44:01.879 --> 2:44:04.680 part of the resolution, the resolution not only went on 2:44:04.920 --> 2:44:07.840 to affirm the right to self determination, freedom, and and 2:44:07.920 --> 2:44:12.720 dependence of peoples forcibly deprived of that right, and particularly 2:44:12.800 --> 2:44:16.200 peoples under colonial and racist regimes or other forms of 2:44:16.280 --> 2:44:19.560 alien domination, but it also noted the right of the 2:44:19.680 --> 2:44:23.879 occupied to quote struggle and to seek and receive support 2:44:24.080 --> 2:44:28.400 in that effort. The term armed struggle was implied without 2:44:28.480 --> 2:44:32.320 precise definition in that resolution and many early other ones 2:44:32.400 --> 2:44:35.560 that upheld the right of indigenous peoples to evict an 2:44:35.640 --> 2:44:39.760 occupier again the right of an indigenous people to evict 2:44:39.920 --> 2:44:45.560 their occupier, but the imprecise language was changed on December third, 2:44:45.760 --> 2:44:50.119 nineteen eighty two. At that time, the WNNGA Resolution three 2:44:50.280 --> 2:44:54.320 seven Slash four to three removed any doubt or debate 2:44:54.720 --> 2:44:58.720 over the lawful entitlement of occupied people to resist occupying 2:44:58.840 --> 2:45:03.160 forces by na any and all lawful means. The resolution 2:45:03.360 --> 2:45:07.880 reaffirmed quote the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, 2:45:08.160 --> 2:45:12.800 territorial integrity, national unity, and liberation from colonial and foreign 2:45:12.879 --> 2:45:18.920 domination and foreign occupation by all available means, including armed struggle. 2:45:20.640 --> 2:45:25.520 And although Israel has tried time and time again to 2:45:26.200 --> 2:45:30.520 recast this ambiguous intent of this precise resolution, trying to 2:45:30.640 --> 2:45:34.120 place its now nearly century long, violent, brutal occupation in 2:45:34.200 --> 2:45:38.520 the West Bank and Gaza beyond this resolution's application, the 2:45:38.640 --> 2:45:43.160 declaration itself proceeds to be very explicit in its language 2:45:43.320 --> 2:45:46.560 when it comes to Palestine. Section twenty one of the 2:45:46.640 --> 2:45:51.720 resolution strongly condemned quote the expansionist activities of Israel in 2:45:51.800 --> 2:45:55.840 the Middle East and the continual bombing of Palestinian civilians, 2:45:56.320 --> 2:45:59.960 which constitute a serious obstacle to the realization of self 2:46:00.200 --> 2:46:05.640 determination and independence of the Palestinian people. That's what I mean, 2:46:06.000 --> 2:46:08.080 and that's what many people mean when they say that 2:46:08.200 --> 2:46:11.520 Palestinians have the right to resist and armed resistance is 2:46:11.520 --> 2:46:14.640 illegal under international law. I want to bring that up 2:46:14.640 --> 2:46:18.520 because even if Hamas does not reflect the viewpoint of 2:46:18.600 --> 2:46:23.199 some Palestinians, HAMAS is also the main armed resistance group 2:46:23.360 --> 2:46:27.800 that has been fighting against the IOF in defending Palestine, 2:46:27.840 --> 2:46:31.800 Gaza in particular against Israel, and they have a right 2:46:31.920 --> 2:46:38.600 to do that clearly, as international law states. Regardless let's 2:46:38.640 --> 2:46:41.920 go back to talk about the history of Hamas and 2:46:42.320 --> 2:46:44.680 how they amended their charter. 2:46:44.560 --> 2:46:45.480 In twenty seventeen. 2:46:46.360 --> 2:46:50.320 In twenty seventeen, Hamas formerly amended its original nineteen eighty 2:46:50.360 --> 2:46:54.440 eight charter. The new charter holds that armed resistance against 2:46:54.440 --> 2:46:59.000 an occupying power is justified under international law. And while 2:46:59.080 --> 2:47:02.119 the nineteen eighty eight Hamas Charter has been widely criticized 2:47:02.160 --> 2:47:05.359 for us anti semitism, each two thousand and seven document 2:47:05.560 --> 2:47:08.520 states that Hamas's fight is not with the Jewish people, 2:47:08.800 --> 2:47:12.240 but with the Zionist project, and as you should realize 2:47:12.280 --> 2:47:16.160 by now, anti Zionism is not anti Semitism. The new 2:47:16.280 --> 2:47:19.000 charter also announced once again that it would accept a 2:47:19.080 --> 2:47:23.760 Palestinian state on the nineteen sixty seven borders. This would recognize, 2:47:23.840 --> 2:47:27.520 in effect, a two state solution and therefore the existence 2:47:27.560 --> 2:47:31.640 of Israel as a legitimate entity. This was proposed even 2:47:31.720 --> 2:47:34.960 as Israel continued to insist that it can no longer 2:47:35.080 --> 2:47:39.760 allow Hamas to exist, and as Israeli politicians, led by Netanyahu, 2:47:40.120 --> 2:47:44.680 repeatedly ruled out a two state solution. Hama's political leader 2:47:44.800 --> 2:47:48.480 Haled Michal said at the time the Hamas, thinking from 2:47:48.520 --> 2:47:51.600 the very start was clear we are not facing a 2:47:51.720 --> 2:47:56.720 religious war. Hamas ever since its inception, realizes the nature 2:47:56.800 --> 2:47:59.720 of the struggle against the Israeli occupier, that it is 2:47:59.720 --> 2:48:02.320 not a struggle because they are Jews, but because they 2:48:02.360 --> 2:48:06.920 are occupiers. Israeli officials dismissed the new policy paper as 2:48:07.240 --> 2:48:11.440 lies in a video Ntenya, who symbolically and dramatically threw 2:48:11.480 --> 2:48:13.880 the document into a trash ban, saying it was an 2:48:13.879 --> 2:48:18.000 attempt to deceive the world. Through its actions which span 2:48:18.120 --> 2:48:21.520 across decades, Israel has not shown any interest in a 2:48:21.560 --> 2:48:25.680 political agreement, whether with Hamas or other Palestinian political parties 2:48:25.920 --> 2:48:30.160 like FATA, which governs the occupied West Bank. Sary Arabi, 2:48:30.320 --> 2:48:34.360 a Ramala based political analyst, told El Dazeira, the issue 2:48:34.480 --> 2:48:37.720 is not about Gaza. It's also not about whether Israel 2:48:37.840 --> 2:48:41.400 or Hamas started the war. There are daily killings and 2:48:41.480 --> 2:48:44.440 assaults in the occupied West Bank. There are attacks on 2:48:44.480 --> 2:48:48.480 the Uxa Mosque, there are prisoners and checkpoints. The people 2:48:48.600 --> 2:48:52.360 in Gaza are refugees. They were isolated and separated from 2:48:52.400 --> 2:48:55.640 the rest of the Palestinian people, and the vast majority 2:48:55.640 --> 2:48:59.800 of Gaza's population are refugees who were forcibly expelled from 2:48:59.800 --> 2:49:02.680 their homes and villages in the nineteen forty eight Nekba 2:49:02.800 --> 2:49:07.840 by Zionist militias. Many political analysts also blame Israel for 2:49:07.959 --> 2:49:11.039 the failure of the OSCO Accords, signed in nineteen ninety 2:49:11.080 --> 2:49:14.240 three and nineteen ninety five between Israel and the PLO, 2:49:14.680 --> 2:49:17.199 which was representative of the Palestinian people at the time. 2:49:18.360 --> 2:49:21.160 The agreements led to the formation of the PA, an 2:49:21.240 --> 2:49:24.400 interim five year governing body meant to lead to an 2:49:24.440 --> 2:49:28.760 independent Palestinian state comprising of the occupied territory of East 2:49:28.800 --> 2:49:32.119 Jerusalem and the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. However, 2:49:32.720 --> 2:49:36.400 thirty years into its existence, the PA has failed to 2:49:36.520 --> 2:49:39.760 create a state in the face of Israeli occupation, legal 2:49:39.840 --> 2:49:43.440 land grabs and settlements, and then Hamas took control of 2:49:43.520 --> 2:49:47.199 Gaza from the PA in two thousand and seven. While 2:49:47.280 --> 2:49:50.759 there was initial support for the OSCO Accords among Palestinians, 2:49:51.160 --> 2:49:53.920 the failure to reach a final peace agreement by nineteen 2:49:54.000 --> 2:49:58.080 ninety nine and the growing settlement projects, particularly under nan Yahoo, 2:49:58.400 --> 2:50:03.279 left many disappointed. In a leaked video in twenty ten, Nanyah, 2:50:03.320 --> 2:50:06.960 who boasted about how he made sure the OSCO Accords 2:50:07.120 --> 2:50:11.480 did not succeed. The hopes of the OSCO Accords turned 2:50:11.520 --> 2:50:16.280 into despair as Israeli policies under successive governments continued to 2:50:16.400 --> 2:50:21.360 undermine the PA and its aspirations. Today, the PA has 2:50:21.480 --> 2:50:24.880 limited administrative rule over pockets of the occupied West Bank, 2:50:25.400 --> 2:50:29.600 while Israeli settlements, which are again considered illegal under international law, 2:50:30.000 --> 2:50:34.400 have grown rapidly. The settler population in the occupied West 2:50:34.440 --> 2:50:37.560 Bank and East Jerusalem has grown from two hundred and 2:50:37.680 --> 2:50:41.280 fifty thousand Israelis in nineteen ninety three to more than 2:50:41.400 --> 2:50:45.959 seven hundred thousand this year. In his talk with El Jazeera, 2:50:46.280 --> 2:50:51.080 author Tarik Barconi said the Israelis wanted OSLO because that's 2:50:51.120 --> 2:50:55.000 how they maintained their colonization. By maintaining the facade of 2:50:55.080 --> 2:50:58.440 a peace process. Hamas was showing a mirror to the 2:50:58.560 --> 2:51:01.879 Israelis to say, if you're actually talking about the possibility 2:51:01.920 --> 2:51:05.640 of ending the occupation, then end it. That was their offer, 2:51:06.080 --> 2:51:09.200 instead of the nineteen ninety three awesome agreements that they 2:51:09.240 --> 2:51:13.640 would stop armed resistance if Israel let Palestinians be in 2:51:13.720 --> 2:51:16.879 the eastern side of Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza. 2:51:17.800 --> 2:51:20.440 When we look into the history of Hamas, we see 2:51:20.520 --> 2:51:24.120 that its political leadership has over the years proposed numerous 2:51:24.280 --> 2:51:27.560 long term truces or cease fires to Israel in exchange 2:51:27.640 --> 2:51:31.680 for the realization of a sovereign, independent Palestinian state, but 2:51:31.920 --> 2:51:36.160 Israel has rejected those offers, arguing that Hamas could not 2:51:36.240 --> 2:51:39.640 be trusted to adhere to any long term ceasefire and 2:51:39.760 --> 2:51:42.400 insisting that any proposal for a short term pause and 2:51:42.520 --> 2:51:46.840 fighting were insincere and strategically aimed only at helping the 2:51:47.040 --> 2:51:51.160 armed movement regroup from losses. I've said this before, but 2:51:51.280 --> 2:51:55.560 it bears repeating. Every Zionist accusation is a confession. The 2:51:55.680 --> 2:51:58.360 reality is that Israel is the one who cannot be 2:51:58.480 --> 2:52:02.000 trusted to adhere to any long term ceasefire, as we 2:52:02.080 --> 2:52:15.800 have seen time and time again. Here is a summarized 2:52:15.840 --> 2:52:18.840 timeline of the most recent peace deal attempts that have 2:52:18.959 --> 2:52:22.880 been proposed since October seventh, since the genocide in Gaza started. 2:52:24.240 --> 2:52:27.400 In January twenty twenty four, the n YAHOO rejected a 2:52:27.480 --> 2:52:30.440 Hamas proposal to end the war and release more than 2:52:30.480 --> 2:52:33.680 one hundred captives held by the group in exchange for 2:52:33.760 --> 2:52:37.440 a withdrawal of Israeli forces, the release of Palestinian prisoners 2:52:37.480 --> 2:52:41.320 in Israeli jails and recognition of Hamas governance over Gaza. 2:52:42.360 --> 2:52:45.200 And then on May sixth, Hamas said it accepted a 2:52:45.280 --> 2:52:49.000 Gaza ceasefire proposal which was put forward by Egypt and Kuttar. 2:52:50.120 --> 2:52:53.080 This deal would come in three stages that would see 2:52:53.160 --> 2:52:56.440 an initial halt in the fighting, leading to lasting calm 2:52:56.640 --> 2:52:59.560 and the withdrawal of Israeli troops from the Palaesainian territory. 2:53:00.320 --> 2:53:03.520 It would also ensure the release of Israeli captives in Gaza, 2:53:03.680 --> 2:53:06.840 as well as an unspecified number of Palestinians held in 2:53:06.959 --> 2:53:10.880 Israeli jails. The framework of the agreement in brief is 2:53:11.520 --> 2:53:14.039 the release of all Israeli captives in the Gaza Strip, 2:53:14.480 --> 2:53:18.560 civilians or military, alive or otherwise from all periods, in 2:53:18.640 --> 2:53:21.960 exchange for a number of Palestinian prisoners held by Israel 2:53:22.000 --> 2:53:25.920 as agreed upon, and a return to a sustainable calm 2:53:26.280 --> 2:53:29.320 that leads to a permanent ceasefire and the withdrawal of 2:53:29.440 --> 2:53:32.480 Israeli forces from the Gaza Strip, as well as its 2:53:32.520 --> 2:53:36.640 reconstruction in the lifting of the siege hm That seems 2:53:36.680 --> 2:53:41.320 little familiar, doesn't it, But Israel unsurprisingly did not agree 2:53:41.360 --> 2:53:46.600 to this proposal. Instead, it bombed Rupha, which made the 2:53:46.720 --> 2:53:51.400 Israeli government's message clear there will be no permanent ceasefire. 2:53:52.160 --> 2:53:55.280 Israel's bombing of Raupphah was justified by Israel as a 2:53:55.320 --> 2:53:59.119 way to disband Hamspitalians and seize control of the Gaza 2:53:59.200 --> 2:54:03.199 Egyptian cross which Israel accuses Hamas of using to smuggle 2:54:03.240 --> 2:54:07.320 weapons into Gaza. But humanitarian groups were quick to point 2:54:07.360 --> 2:54:09.720 out that a closure of such a crossing would only 2:54:09.920 --> 2:54:13.680 lead to further disastrous consequences for the more than one 2:54:13.840 --> 2:54:17.680 million Palestinians living in Dapah, the majority of them displaced 2:54:17.680 --> 2:54:20.680 from other areas of Gaza who fled to Daphah after 2:54:20.760 --> 2:54:23.320 being told by Israel that it was a quote unquote 2:54:23.600 --> 2:54:26.879 safe zone. Israel said at the time that the terms 2:54:26.920 --> 2:54:30.480 of the May Hamasisepire deal differed from previous proposals it 2:54:30.560 --> 2:54:34.200 had seen, but analysts believe that the wider issue is 2:54:34.280 --> 2:54:37.200 that Israel is not willing to agree to a permanency 2:54:37.280 --> 2:54:43.199 spire even after Hamas releases all Israeli captives. Omar Dehman, 2:54:43.400 --> 2:54:46.279 an expert on Israel Palestine with the Middle East Council 2:54:46.360 --> 2:54:50.160 for Global Affairs, spoke about this in May saying the 2:54:50.280 --> 2:54:53.360 last couple of days have proved that Israel was not 2:54:53.560 --> 2:54:57.600 really negotiating in good faith. The moment that Hamas agreed 2:54:57.640 --> 2:55:00.640 to a deal, Israel was willing to low that up 2:55:00.920 --> 2:55:04.040 by commencing their assault on Rafah. The goal is to 2:55:04.200 --> 2:55:09.199 destroy Gaza in its totality. And then, on May thirty first, 2:55:09.640 --> 2:55:13.440 the US announced its own ceasefire proposal that Biden said 2:55:13.480 --> 2:55:17.000 would lead to a quote lasting ceasefire in the Gaza strip. 2:55:17.959 --> 2:55:21.200 He said the proposal involves three phases, the first of 2:55:21.240 --> 2:55:24.160 which would last six weeks and would include a full 2:55:24.200 --> 2:55:27.200 and complete ceasefire as well as the withdrawal of Israeli 2:55:27.320 --> 2:55:31.600 forces from all populated areas of Gaza. Again, this peace 2:55:31.680 --> 2:55:35.039 plan is almost indistinguishable from the one that Hamas agreed 2:55:35.040 --> 2:55:38.400 to on May sixth. A quick reminder that only twenty 2:55:38.480 --> 2:55:42.160 five days before this announcement, on May sixth, Hamas had 2:55:42.200 --> 2:55:45.080 agreed to a cease fire proposal by Egypt and Katad 2:55:45.280 --> 2:55:48.560 that is almost identical to the one Biden announced on 2:55:48.680 --> 2:55:53.600 May thirty first, and Israeli leaders rejected that initiative. On 2:55:53.760 --> 2:55:57.440 June seventh, Israel rejected the UN's resolution of its own 2:55:57.560 --> 2:56:00.520 hostage deal. Offer, which was a permanent seat ease fire 2:56:00.600 --> 2:56:04.440 in exchange for release of all hostages. A reminder that 2:56:04.560 --> 2:56:08.560 the only mass release of hostages has come through ceasefire exchanges, 2:56:09.000 --> 2:56:13.640 and that a ceasefire deal means freed hostages without mass death. 2:56:14.680 --> 2:56:18.080 It boggles my mind that there are still people defending 2:56:18.240 --> 2:56:22.480 Israel and saying all this Palestinian death is for the hostages, 2:56:23.040 --> 2:56:26.840 because again, if Israel cared about their lives at all, 2:56:27.760 --> 2:56:30.680 they would agree to a deal because that deal can 2:56:30.760 --> 2:56:34.520 guarantee the safety of the hostages. But they do not 2:56:34.680 --> 2:56:38.400 care about the hostages. Every time Israel rejects a deal, 2:56:38.720 --> 2:56:41.840 they are telling you that, and yet their supporters are 2:56:41.959 --> 2:56:45.840 too entrenched in the lies and propaganda of Zionism to 2:56:46.000 --> 2:56:53.200 ever see clearly. So, just to summarize, the US proposed 2:56:53.240 --> 2:56:57.520 a ceasefire deal which was almost indistinguishable from previous plans, 2:56:57.600 --> 2:57:01.840 agreed to buy Hamas, and then, while seemingly waiting for 2:57:02.000 --> 2:57:05.480 Israel to accept the deal, the US launched a military 2:57:05.560 --> 2:57:10.519 operation and committed more war crimes to murder hundreds of Palestinians. 2:57:10.879 --> 2:57:14.240 And they did this by hiding in humanitarian aid trucks 2:57:15.160 --> 2:57:18.760 while deceiving the world and the Palestinians into thinking that 2:57:18.879 --> 2:57:22.480 they were trying to formulate a ceasefire agreement. The US 2:57:22.680 --> 2:57:27.240 helped Israel plan and carry out its massacres. This is 2:57:27.320 --> 2:57:31.320 what peacemaking looks like to the United States. A ceasefire 2:57:31.440 --> 2:57:35.279 deal is the absolute bare minimum, and it is nowhere 2:57:35.360 --> 2:57:40.039 near enough. The removal of Nan Yahoo is nowhere near enough. 2:57:41.280 --> 2:57:44.040 He's being set up as the fall guy and scapegoat 2:57:44.080 --> 2:57:47.520 for Israel, skirting the responsibility of what the Israeli state 2:57:47.600 --> 2:57:51.120 has done to Palestinian people since nineteen forty eight. The 2:57:51.280 --> 2:57:55.360 Fight for Palestine is a liberation movement which demands nothing 2:57:55.560 --> 2:57:59.840 less than the full dignity, freedom, and security of all 2:58:00.000 --> 2:58:04.040 all who live under this violent military occupation. It's a 2:58:04.160 --> 2:58:09.480 demand to end Israeli apartheid, and until that happens, Israel 2:58:09.520 --> 2:58:12.199 will continue to get away with the nekapa that started 2:58:12.280 --> 2:58:16.320 in nineteen forty eight and continues today. The Nekapa never ended. 2:58:17.320 --> 2:58:20.120 Israel will continue to get away with the genocide and 2:58:20.200 --> 2:58:23.800 ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people until Israel and it's 2:58:23.800 --> 2:58:29.000 apartheid is dismantled. A ceasefire is the absolute bare minimum 2:58:29.480 --> 2:58:32.960 to achieving that, and that my friends is our episode 2:58:33.000 --> 2:58:36.960 for today. Please keep sharing and learning about what is 2:58:37.040 --> 2:58:43.000 happening in Palestine and got stop talking about it. Free Palestine. 2:58:46.680 --> 2:58:49.800 Hey, We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week 2:58:49.920 --> 2:58:51.800 from now until the heat death of the Universe. 2:58:52.440 --> 2:58:54.760 It Could Happen Here as a production of cool Zone Media. 2:58:55.000 --> 2:58:57.640 For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 2:58:57.680 --> 2:58:59.840 cool zonemedia dot com or check us out on the 2:59:00.000 --> 2:59:03.320 iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 2:59:03.800 --> 2:59:05.880 You can find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated 2:59:06.000 --> 2:59:10.000 monthly at coolzonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.