1
00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:05,320
Speaker 1: Al Zone Media. Hey everybody, Robert Evans here and I

2
00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:08,520
Speaker 1: wanted to let you know this is a compilation episode.

3
00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:11,840
Speaker 1: So every episode of the week that just happened is

4
00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:15,680
Speaker 1: here in one convenient and with somewhat less ads package

5
00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:17,880
Speaker 1: for you to listen to in a long stretch if

6
00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:20,280
Speaker 1: you want. If you've been listening to the episodes every

7
00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:22,080
Speaker 1: day this week, there's going to be nothing new here

8
00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:24,800
Speaker 1: for you, but you can make your own decisions.

9
00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:29,560
Speaker 2: It's riot time when it could happen here, this is

10
00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:32,560
Speaker 2: this is the podcast that you're listening to. It's about

11
00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:35,400
Speaker 2: this is this one's kind of about bad things. This

12
00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:37,880
Speaker 2: is this is about a bunch of riots in the past.

13
00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:40,839
Speaker 2: I'm your host to be along with Vus James and Garrison.

14
00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:42,880
Speaker 3: Hello Harmony.

15
00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:47,239
Speaker 2: So one of the kind of I don't know, the

16
00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:50,360
Speaker 2: trends of twenty twenty four is everyone looking at this

17
00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:52,760
Speaker 2: year and going this is nineteen sixty eight. Again. There's

18
00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:55,760
Speaker 2: campus occupations that are anti war protests. There is a

19
00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:58,600
Speaker 2: Democratic National Convention that is expected to be extremely hot,

20
00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:02,000
Speaker 2: and so so one of one of the things that

21
00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:04,319
Speaker 2: we are doing in the run up to the Democratic

22
00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:06,839
Speaker 2: Convention is we are going to go do some episodes

23
00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:09,800
Speaker 2: about nineteen sixty eight, and we are eventually going to

24
00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:13,800
Speaker 2: do episodes about like the Columbia campus occupations and about

25
00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:18,320
Speaker 2: the DNC. But unfortunately, in order to do that, we

26
00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:21,040
Speaker 2: have to why I say, unfortunately, this is actually not unfortunately,

27
00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:24,959
Speaker 2: this this mostly rules. I don't know, some of it's bad.

28
00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:28,160
Speaker 2: But in order to talk about this, and this is

29
00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:29,840
Speaker 2: this is the part of this whole thing that has

30
00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:33,800
Speaker 2: been completely forgotten, right, you know, there's there's become this

31
00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:37,759
Speaker 2: kind of like I don't know, state cult isn't quite

32
00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:39,560
Speaker 2: the right word, but there's become this sort of like

33
00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:43,640
Speaker 2: professional institutional history of nineteen sixty eight, where like all

34
00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:47,120
Speaker 2: of these universities like proudly have banners from like nineteen

35
00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:51,240
Speaker 2: sixty eight protests. Everyone has been like, you know, incredibly

36
00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:53,720
Speaker 2: willing to embrace the legacy of the anti war movements

37
00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:56,960
Speaker 2: and the campus occupations, and you know, like insofar as

38
00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:59,440
Speaker 2: they tell people not to embrace things, it's this stuff

39
00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:02,280
Speaker 2: about like you know, you hear this concert screaming about

40
00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:05,480
Speaker 2: don't repeat the sixty eight convention. But there's one part

41
00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:08,880
Speaker 2: of this story that has is just gone, has been

42
00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:12,040
Speaker 2: excised from the historical record. It is extremely clear that

43
00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:15,400
Speaker 2: no one wants you to remember it whatsoever. And that

44
00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:18,240
Speaker 2: is the Holy Week Uprising? Do you two know? Have

45
00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:20,119
Speaker 2: you heard of the Holy Week Uprising?

46
00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:24,840
Speaker 4: Not before you started talking about it in our work meetings.

47
00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:29,120
Speaker 5: I'm familiar with it. I've covered in US history ghosts before,

48
00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:32,600
Speaker 5: not as that name. I think people might be more

49
00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:34,359
Speaker 5: familiar with it. Have you described the events?

50
00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:37,280
Speaker 2: Yeah? So the other name for is the MLK riots,

51
00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:42,480
Speaker 2: which is a week I mean, okay, so it's okay, yeah, yeah, okay, yeah,

52
00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:45,920
Speaker 2: so okay, so and I should be clear about this. Okay,

53
00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:49,000
Speaker 2: So there are there are really two things going on here.

54
00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:52,959
Speaker 2: There is one the actually it's usually thought of it

55
00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:55,040
Speaker 2: was about a week, but it's it's actually longer than that.

56
00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:57,240
Speaker 2: There's like a couple of months of rioting in various

57
00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:00,839
Speaker 2: places over the oascination of MLK. The other thing that's

58
00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:05,400
Speaker 2: going on here is a wave of urban rebellion. And

59
00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:09,000
Speaker 2: when I say urban here, I'm not just talking about

60
00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:13,200
Speaker 2: you know, like Watts or Detroit or Chicago, like these

61
00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:15,320
Speaker 2: like giant urban cities, which is which is how you know,

62
00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:18,239
Speaker 2: insofar as anyone ever talks about rioting in this period,

63
00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:21,639
Speaker 2: is about these large urban centers. No, they are rioting

64
00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:24,359
Speaker 2: in Milwaukee. The most intense fighting that we're going to

65
00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:27,920
Speaker 2: talk about in this episode happens in York, Pennsylvania. In

66
00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:31,200
Speaker 2: this period for about is about nineteen sixty three to

67
00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:37,560
Speaker 2: roughly by by nineteen seventy one seventy two, it's kind

68
00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:44,520
Speaker 2: of over. There are a staggering number of urban uprisings.

69
00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:46,320
Speaker 2: I'm gonna I'm gonna read a quote from a book

70
00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:48,720
Speaker 2: called The Great Uprising, which is about this sort of period.

71
00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:52,480
Speaker 2: Between nineteen sixty three and nineteen seventy two, America experienced

72
00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:56,240
Speaker 2: over seven hundred and fifty urban revolts. Upwards of five

73
00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:59,960
Speaker 2: hundred and twenty five cities were affected, including nearly every

74
00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:04,040
Speaker 2: one with a black population over fifty thousand. The two

75
00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:06,760
Speaker 2: largest wave of uprisings came during the summer of nineteen

76
00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:09,280
Speaker 2: sixty seven Entry and Holy Week in nineteen sixty eight,

77
00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:12,720
Speaker 2: following the assassination of Martin Luther King Junior. In these

78
00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:15,960
Speaker 2: two years alone, one hundred and twenty five people were killed,

79
00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:19,600
Speaker 2: nearly seven thousand were injured, approximately forty five thousand arrests

80
00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:22,640
Speaker 2: were made, and property damaged topped one hundred and twenty

81
00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:25,640
Speaker 2: seven million dollars or approximately nine hundred million and twenty

82
00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:26,840
Speaker 2: seventeen dollars.

83
00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:30,840
Speaker 5: If you can even stretch this out to, like can

84
00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:32,039
Speaker 5: I just give you the spam and I put on

85
00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:33,680
Speaker 5: this in my history class and then and then we

86
00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:37,160
Speaker 5: can we continue? Yeah, okay, So the way I perceive

87
00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:42,400
Speaker 5: this is the process of decolonization begins like in the colonies,

88
00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:44,480
Speaker 5: and it comes back to the metropol right, and we

89
00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:48,640
Speaker 5: see like this physical declonization in places like Algeria, right,

90
00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:52,039
Speaker 5: and then the impact of witnessing that returns to the

91
00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:56,280
Speaker 5: metropol along with the theories that like if you want to

92
00:04:56,279 --> 00:04:58,440
Speaker 5: say they decononize the mind, I think that that's an

93
00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:03,360
Speaker 5: acceptable way. And like this sort of struggle and even

94
00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:05,480
Speaker 5: the esthetic, right, like the esthetic of the Battle of

95
00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:08,640
Speaker 5: Algias is present in some of these uprisings, like and

96
00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:11,000
Speaker 5: you can stretch it out to like, you know, I

97
00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:12,960
Speaker 5: like to talk about wynded Ny, but a second occupation

98
00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:15,000
Speaker 5: of Wyndedney in nineteen seventy three. I think you could

99
00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:18,320
Speaker 5: also see that as part of this decolonization struggle. At

100
00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:21,240
Speaker 5: least that's my uh, yeah, that's my angle on it.

101
00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:24,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think there's definitely a lot of like,

102
00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:26,760
Speaker 2: I don't know, there's a lot of inspiration taken there.

103
00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:29,159
Speaker 2: I think the way it's usually seen in the US

104
00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:32,159
Speaker 2: is as this is the sort of I don't know,

105
00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:34,480
Speaker 2: it's kind of as it's seen. This is kind of

106
00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:36,840
Speaker 2: this is where everything went off the rails after the

107
00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:41,000
Speaker 2: Civil Rights movement, which isn't what happens. Yeah, And the

108
00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:42,440
Speaker 2: other way I think this is seen and this is

109
00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:45,960
Speaker 2: I don't know, a lens that is kind of useful

110
00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:49,520
Speaker 2: to talk about this, but kind of isn't is about

111
00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:52,839
Speaker 2: the sort of quote unquote long nineteen sixty eight. So

112
00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:54,560
Speaker 2: you know, we're gonna be covering a lot of nineteen

113
00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:57,240
Speaker 2: sixty eight stuff on this show, you know, So like

114
00:05:57,240 --> 00:05:59,720
Speaker 2: there's obviously this nineteen sixty eight in France. I think

115
00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:02,800
Speaker 2: I think if you want to look at the origin

116
00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:07,400
Speaker 2: point of the sort of like wave uprisings that are

117
00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:10,479
Speaker 2: specifically nineteen sixty eight and that aren't sort of like

118
00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:16,480
Speaker 2: the decolonization arc, I think it probably starts in China

119
00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:20,520
Speaker 2: with the January storm in nineteen sixty seven. But on

120
00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:22,600
Speaker 2: the other hand, sort of and then this is you know,

121
00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:24,839
Speaker 2: one of the things about this period is everything is

122
00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:27,120
Speaker 2: happening so much at the same time, right, Like we

123
00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:29,039
Speaker 2: have a lot of experience about this, but like you know,

124
00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:33,040
Speaker 2: as the January Storm, the January Storm is this part

125
00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:35,960
Speaker 2: of the culture revolution where Mao kind of loses control

126
00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:39,919
Speaker 2: and Mao kind of incites a bunch of these like

127
00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:43,560
Speaker 2: a bunch of workers in Shanghai to like take the city.

128
00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:46,200
Speaker 2: But then they actually take the city, and they run

129
00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:49,200
Speaker 2: the Party out, they run the PLA out, and for

130
00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:52,080
Speaker 2: a brief period of time, Shanghai like has just been

131
00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:54,200
Speaker 2: taken by its working class and is not being run

132
00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:56,440
Speaker 2: by the Party. And there's this whole like you know,

133
00:06:56,640 --> 00:07:00,320
Speaker 2: massive series of struggles, it kind of struggles. But the

134
00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:01,800
Speaker 2: the thing the think about the sort of the way

135
00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:03,720
Speaker 2: sixty is understood is, you know, even some people even

136
00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:07,279
Speaker 2: include that, but these riots, specifically the Holy Week riots

137
00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:12,040
Speaker 2: are almost never talked about as as part of this process,

138
00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:14,720
Speaker 2: which I think they obviously are, and I think you know,

139
00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:17,000
Speaker 2: part of the reason we're talking about them now is

140
00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:20,560
Speaker 2: that you can't understand the Columbia campus occupations. You can't

141
00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:23,560
Speaker 2: understand the kind of politics that's going to come after that.

142
00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:26,120
Speaker 2: You can't understand the and see you can't understand like

143
00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:28,880
Speaker 2: the rise of Black radicalism. Like, none of this is

144
00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:32,880
Speaker 2: comprehensible at all unless you understand these riots, because this

145
00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:36,640
Speaker 2: was the uprising that sort of kicked everything off. It's

146
00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:38,280
Speaker 2: also this is a very hard thing to write about

147
00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:41,840
Speaker 2: because like this, I've had the time of my life

148
00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:43,960
Speaker 2: trying to put this together because this thing should be

149
00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:46,560
Speaker 2: like thirty five hours, and I don't have thirty five hours.

150
00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:50,560
Speaker 2: I have thirty minutes. So that being said, let's get

151
00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:54,840
Speaker 2: into why these are happening. So obviously, there is the

152
00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:57,640
Speaker 2: civil rights movement happening. You know, nineteen sixty five, you

153
00:07:57,720 --> 00:07:59,560
Speaker 2: get get the Voting Rights Act. We've had some civil

154
00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:06,040
Speaker 2: rights Act. But comma, if you are like you are

155
00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:08,680
Speaker 2: a part of the black working class in nineteen cities

156
00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:11,880
Speaker 2: of America, a society is still unbelievably racist. Like they're like,

157
00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:14,720
Speaker 2: you know, on a very basic level, there's a bunch

158
00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:17,280
Speaker 2: of people walking around calling you the N words. You

159
00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:20,760
Speaker 2: are restricted to the shittiest jobs available, assuming you can

160
00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:23,680
Speaker 2: find work at all. One of the biggest ones. And

161
00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:25,560
Speaker 2: this is something that this is something that was a

162
00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:27,760
Speaker 2: very big focus of the kind of later civil rights

163
00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:30,440
Speaker 2: ument that kind of has been a race for historical memory.

164
00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:32,959
Speaker 2: Was the struggle over housing. I'm going to read another

165
00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:38,360
Speaker 2: thing from the Great Uprising. SNCC field worker John Beptize,

166
00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:41,040
Speaker 2: who took over for Robinson and Hanson, described many of

167
00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:43,600
Speaker 2: the homes in the second ward. This is in Cambridge,

168
00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,160
Speaker 2: which is one of the places where those really intense rioting.

169
00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:48,880
Speaker 2: Both we'll talk about this in a little bit, but

170
00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:53,240
Speaker 2: both in sixty three and in sixty seven describe many

171
00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:55,520
Speaker 2: of the homes in the second ward as nothing more

172
00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:59,880
Speaker 2: than converted horse barns, corn cribs, and company shacks which

173
00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:05,360
Speaker 2: lacked hot running water, flush toilets, and electricity. Separate and

174
00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:09,839
Speaker 2: independent investigations by federal officials confirmed at USA's claims. We

175
00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:14,280
Speaker 2: were shown block after block of tottering, single family frame structures,

176
00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:17,600
Speaker 2: often lined along dirt roads and generally with little or

177
00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:20,560
Speaker 2: no setback, which is like they're like directly on the

178
00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:22,960
Speaker 2: street right like you open your door and you're on

179
00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:27,760
Speaker 2: the street, crowded almost against each other, and on small lots,

180
00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:30,400
Speaker 2: sometimes of no more than fifty or sixty foot depth,

181
00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:33,600
Speaker 2: reported one US Department of Housing a urban development official.

182
00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:37,440
Speaker 2: These dwellings were obviously obsolete and in disrepair, with tumbling

183
00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:41,040
Speaker 2: porches and steps. Many were without inside toilets, and in

184
00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:43,959
Speaker 2: several instances, the outside privy served more than one family.

185
00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:48,040
Speaker 2: Hot Water is rarely available, and several are without inside water.

186
00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:52,440
Speaker 2: Overcrowding is a common pattern. So you know, this is

187
00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:55,160
Speaker 2: the kind of like, this is one of the centers

188
00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:58,080
Speaker 2: of these struggles. So these people are living in like

189
00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:03,679
Speaker 2: nineteen thirties bar and this, you know, there is there

190
00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:05,800
Speaker 2: is a sort of staggering amount of anger about this.

191
00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:08,640
Speaker 2: And the other the other aspect of this is that

192
00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:11,400
Speaker 2: you know, okay, so these people are living in like

193
00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:16,480
Speaker 2: places that are not fit human habitation. Also, they're on

194
00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:19,360
Speaker 2: average fifty six percent more of their income goes to

195
00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:23,400
Speaker 2: rent than white people than then white people paid a rent,

196
00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:25,440
Speaker 2: which means that you know, and and this this is

197
00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:28,480
Speaker 2: also one of the things that's happening in this period

198
00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:31,280
Speaker 2: is that there's a bunch of money for like white

199
00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:33,480
Speaker 2: people that the government is giving them, are giving people

200
00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:35,760
Speaker 2: sort of loans and subsidies and tax credits to go

201
00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:38,640
Speaker 2: buy houses. None of this is happening for black people.

202
00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:41,720
Speaker 2: So what you have is a situation where like, if

203
00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:43,800
Speaker 2: you are black, basically all of your money is being

204
00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:46,440
Speaker 2: absorbed into rents. There is no possibility of you like

205
00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:49,320
Speaker 2: saving or you know, like saving to buy a house,

206
00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:52,080
Speaker 2: like other than the sort of like ramshackle shit that

207
00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:55,120
Speaker 2: you're in, like the conventional civil rights movement, right, you're

208
00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:58,120
Speaker 2: sort of like non violent marches. This hasn't done shit

209
00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:02,280
Speaker 2: to deal with any of these problems. You're also dealing

210
00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:08,520
Speaker 2: with really really intense labor discrimination, you know, and I

211
00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:11,160
Speaker 2: mean these are things like like there's this kind of

212
00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:14,480
Speaker 2: like example in Baltimore where you know, you'll you'll you'll

213
00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:18,120
Speaker 2: have union locals that are literally all white locals, right,

214
00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:20,920
Speaker 2: and they will they will cut these deals with management

215
00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:23,360
Speaker 2: where they'll be like, well, management will hands like hiring

216
00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:25,520
Speaker 2: and firing power over to the unions, and the unions go,

217
00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:28,160
Speaker 2: oh great, okay, and this this is a negotiated thing

218
00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:30,240
Speaker 2: between the two. The unions are like, okay, only unions

219
00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:32,200
Speaker 2: can work at only union members can work at the shop,

220
00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:33,840
Speaker 2: which in theory is good, but in practice what this

221
00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:37,480
Speaker 2: means is because these are all white unions, right, they've

222
00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:39,360
Speaker 2: they've now created a system by which you can, by

223
00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:41,200
Speaker 2: which you can just not hire black people. Ever.

224
00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:47,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, the the Brianna wu method. God, yeah, you know

225
00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:49,240
Speaker 5: it's a reference to a terrible tweet I hopefy people

226
00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:49,760
Speaker 5: haven't seen.

227
00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:53,880
Speaker 2: Oh god, yeah. And you know the the other things

228
00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:56,000
Speaker 2: that are sort of happening here, right, is so in

229
00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:59,800
Speaker 2: theory desegregation is supposed to be happening. In practice, that

230
00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:04,000
Speaker 2: shit is not happening. People are making people are doing

231
00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:06,760
Speaker 2: these like you know, like white progressors are giving these

232
00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:10,400
Speaker 2: speeches about how like a segregation is like ending where

233
00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:15,880
Speaker 2: we're like integrating quickly, and it's not happening, and all

234
00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:20,520
Speaker 2: of this kind of you know, all of this sort

235
00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:23,560
Speaker 2: of fuel and also and obviously the sort of immediate

236
00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:25,880
Speaker 2: spark of a lot of a lot of these uprisings,

237
00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:29,120
Speaker 2: So particularly in sixty seven, is that as as happens today,

238
00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:31,920
Speaker 2: you know, you all statistically have lived I don't know

239
00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:33,880
Speaker 2: why I was saysistically, all of you have lived through this.

240
00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:36,440
Speaker 2: All of you probably have been to at least one

241
00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:39,160
Speaker 2: protest that is this is that the coptious murder people.

242
00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:44,840
Speaker 2: And all of this sets off a set of kindling

243
00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:49,560
Speaker 2: and is going to lead to a simply staggering wave

244
00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:52,560
Speaker 2: of uprisings. But first, do you know what, I won't

245
00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:55,640
Speaker 2: lead to a simply staggering set of uprisings if you

246
00:12:55,679 --> 00:12:56,120
Speaker 2: buy them.

247
00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:59,720
Speaker 5: It's the production and consumption of created needs as described

248
00:12:59,720 --> 00:12:59,920
Speaker 5: by her.

249
00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:05,920
Speaker 4: But Mark Husa, that's right, James, yes, or more on that.

250
00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:06,960
Speaker 4: Here's these ads.

251
00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:21,439
Speaker 2: So we are back, all right, So let let's start

252
00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:25,800
Speaker 2: actually talking about some of these riots. Okay, So I've

253
00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:28,760
Speaker 2: mentioned before that these riots are happening in a lot

254
00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:32,640
Speaker 2: of places that are not like that are not typically considering.

255
00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:35,400
Speaker 2: We're actually not gonna talk sort of stunningly for thinking

256
00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:37,680
Speaker 2: about this. We're not going to talk about the wats riots,

257
00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:39,319
Speaker 2: which are probably the biggest and most famous of the

258
00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:40,920
Speaker 2: riots in this period. We're not going to talk about

259
00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:43,000
Speaker 2: Detroit either, even though that was another really big one,

260
00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:46,000
Speaker 2: because you know, you you can go out and you

261
00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:49,040
Speaker 2: can find a bunch of people kind of talking about these.

262
00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:56,040
Speaker 2: We are going to start in Omaha, where begin Yeah,

263
00:13:56,880 --> 00:13:59,040
Speaker 2: but again this is this is something that's very important,

264
00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:01,320
Speaker 2: is that this is not just a sort of uprising

265
00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:03,480
Speaker 2: of the urban ghettos, which is which is how it's

266
00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:05,640
Speaker 2: like very explicit. This is literally the language that is

267
00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:09,200
Speaker 2: used at this time to describe what's happening here. But like, no,

268
00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:14,200
Speaker 2: this is happening in a bund like again Cincinnati. Omaha

269
00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:16,360
Speaker 2: is interesting because it has one of the a very

270
00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:19,840
Speaker 2: very common. One of the other big sort of rallying

271
00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:23,800
Speaker 2: points in this era is price gouging. So you know,

272
00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:26,520
Speaker 2: if you're if you're in one of these like ninety

273
00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:29,440
Speaker 2: nine percent black communities, like the one like the one

274
00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:31,960
Speaker 2: white person who is there is the shop owner. And

275
00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:33,800
Speaker 2: the thing the shop owner is doing is the shop

276
00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:36,480
Speaker 2: owner is gouging you for food because you don't you know,

277
00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:38,160
Speaker 2: you don't have any other options to buy for you from,

278
00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:39,680
Speaker 2: so they're going to gouge you and they're going to

279
00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:41,760
Speaker 2: give you like the worst products you can ever you've

280
00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:44,280
Speaker 2: ever seen in your life. And so by May sixty six,

281
00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:46,800
Speaker 2: people are just fed up with this. There start there

282
00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:49,200
Speaker 2: start to be sort of protests, like specifically at these

283
00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:51,800
Speaker 2: white stores. Uh there's a bunch of people, you know,

284
00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:54,920
Speaker 2: throwing rocks at the cops. Yeah, and so you know, so,

285
00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:57,160
Speaker 2: I mean, okay. The other thing that's very important to

286
00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:00,840
Speaker 2: understand about these places is that these riots don't just

287
00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:03,840
Speaker 2: start out of nowhere, right. These are mostly places where

288
00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:06,040
Speaker 2: there have been existing civil rights movements and they kind

289
00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:07,320
Speaker 2: of just ran into a stone wall.

290
00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:08,000
Speaker 5: You know.

291
00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:09,920
Speaker 2: One of the big things in this period too, and

292
00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:11,920
Speaker 2: this is something that like like you know, this is

293
00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:14,800
Speaker 2: what MLKA and the Poor People's Campaign was sort of

294
00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:17,920
Speaker 2: working on at the same time, was you know, these

295
00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:20,720
Speaker 2: these these demands for job programs, and so people are

296
00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:24,200
Speaker 2: you know, marching around they doing like pickets Omaha, like

297
00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:28,120
Speaker 2: has has a Malcolm X come speak at one point

298
00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:30,320
Speaker 2: and he's talking about like, you know, like the youth

299
00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:32,520
Speaker 2: these protests and people like marching outside of Safeway saying

300
00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:37,400
Speaker 2: like we want jobs, and these protests start getting attacked

301
00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:39,640
Speaker 2: by the police and this is something that you know,

302
00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:42,040
Speaker 2: this is something that that has been happening to these

303
00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:44,480
Speaker 2: nonviolent sit ins. I'm going to read a passage from

304
00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:48,040
Speaker 2: the book. Then the burnings began from there. Omaha police

305
00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:51,200
Speaker 2: Wallace is quote unquote goon squad and spectators began to

306
00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:54,040
Speaker 2: beat the protesters out of the auditorium using batons and

307
00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:58,320
Speaker 2: metal folding chairs. Reeling from the attacks, African American youth

308
00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:02,200
Speaker 2: retaliated in the streets. So like like they'll be in

309
00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:05,320
Speaker 2: meetings with community with like like the mayor or whatever,

310
00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:09,280
Speaker 2: and these fucking mobs will start just beating people with chairs.

311
00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:11,280
Speaker 4: The goons squad.

312
00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:16,600
Speaker 5: You say, yeah, God reminds me of the within running

313
00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:19,280
Speaker 5: ads to free down at Peltier a week. But the

314
00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:22,560
Speaker 5: guardians of the Agglala Nation, but like they literally call

315
00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:26,840
Speaker 5: themselves the goons. I'm guessing they'll people, not the people

316
00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:30,960
Speaker 5: participating in this particular beating. Non many such cases in

317
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:31,360
Speaker 5: this area.

318
00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:33,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, and this gets to another aspect of these of

319
00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:36,200
Speaker 2: these riots is that a lot of them aren't started

320
00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:38,920
Speaker 2: by rioters. They're started by a bunch of like a

321
00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:43,280
Speaker 2: white mob showing up and attacking people. And so you

322
00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:46,040
Speaker 2: know in Omaha, and this is something that we're going

323
00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:48,520
Speaker 2: to see a lot. Uh that is something that kind

324
00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:51,600
Speaker 2: of doesn't happen as much now, is like they just

325
00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:54,280
Speaker 2: the cops just fucking kill people the streets from protests

326
00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:56,640
Speaker 2: are happening in Omaha. They like they just they murder

327
00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:58,880
Speaker 2: a kid with a riot gun. And this, you know,

328
00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:01,560
Speaker 2: this sets off like as sort of you know the

329
00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:03,640
Speaker 2: patterns that work shore visa seeing of like these sort

330
00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:07,080
Speaker 2: of escalating riots. And this is a very kind of

331
00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:10,080
Speaker 2: familiar riot, right, Like I think we've all we've all

332
00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:13,000
Speaker 2: had the like, Okay, so the police attacked a bunch

333
00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:14,760
Speaker 2: of people, so it caused a riot kind of thing.

334
00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:16,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, so now a riot starts y.

335
00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:20,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, And this is this is a relatively non violent riot,

336
00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:22,679
Speaker 2: which is to say that people are mostly throwing stones

337
00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:28,960
Speaker 2: and molotovs. That is absolutely not true of a huge

338
00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:31,040
Speaker 2: amount of the rest of these riots, and particularly as

339
00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:33,600
Speaker 2: we sort of get closer to Holy Week. Something something

340
00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:36,639
Speaker 2: that is very important about the sixty eight riots that

341
00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:38,680
Speaker 2: is not true about any riots that we've ever lived

342
00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:43,000
Speaker 2: through is that not only are people extremely well armed,

343
00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:47,600
Speaker 2: they are the state's monopoly on violence in nineteen sixty

344
00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:49,400
Speaker 2: eight is nowhere near as powerful as it is now.

345
00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:52,560
Speaker 2: People will just fucking shoot. And one of the constant

346
00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:54,679
Speaker 2: things you read about when when you're reading about these

347
00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:58,000
Speaker 2: riots is that is you know, every police account has

348
00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:01,679
Speaker 2: police like like screaming about and like I didn't believe this,

349
00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:03,040
Speaker 2: right because I was reading this, I was like, okay,

350
00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:05,280
Speaker 2: whatever other police, Right, they talk about snippers all the time.

351
00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:07,720
Speaker 2: You see this in radical accounts too, where people will

352
00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:10,120
Speaker 2: talk about like, well, yeah, like the the National Guard

353
00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:12,040
Speaker 2: and Watts will be talking about how they're taking sniper

354
00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:13,760
Speaker 2: fires so they'll start shooting machine guns and like the

355
00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:18,600
Speaker 2: rus of build at buildings, right, But no, like this

356
00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:22,119
Speaker 2: was real. People actually were like doing this, and you

357
00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:24,639
Speaker 2: know I was I was really sort of like like

358
00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:26,879
Speaker 2: on the on the fence about this, like this was

359
00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:29,600
Speaker 2: this actually happening? And then the next thing I read

360
00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:31,160
Speaker 2: was an interview with a guy who'd been a black

361
00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:34,600
Speaker 2: nationalist and starts talking about how they they they were

362
00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:37,480
Speaker 2: using all of their dynamite stores and how they didn't

363
00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:39,399
Speaker 2: have fuses for the dynamite so they had to like

364
00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:41,639
Speaker 2: they had to plant the dynamite and then retreat across

365
00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:43,560
Speaker 2: the sheet to shoot at the dynamite so the dynamite

366
00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:44,160
Speaker 2: would go off.

367
00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:48,080
Speaker 5: It sounds like a fun exercise.

368
00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:50,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was. It was nuts. It was like the

369
00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:54,080
Speaker 2: kinds of stuff these people were doing is sort of

370
00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:57,240
Speaker 2: just really it's it's really staggering.

371
00:18:57,920 --> 00:18:59,919
Speaker 5: This, Like you say, the state just didn't have that

372
00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:03,080
Speaker 5: same monopoly on on violence like that there was. It

373
00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:05,880
Speaker 5: didn't have the overwhelmed cops, didn't have like the overwhelming

374
00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:08,440
Speaker 5: force that they do now, that they didn't possess tanks,

375
00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:10,400
Speaker 5: and like it was a lot harder to trace gun

376
00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:13,000
Speaker 5: purchases in nineteen sixties because not everyone used credit cards,

377
00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:14,600
Speaker 5: so it made it a whole lot easier for folks

378
00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:16,520
Speaker 5: to have and keep guns.

379
00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:18,760
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, the other thing is, like, you know, this

380
00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:21,840
Speaker 2: is something that that in some of the This is

381
00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:25,840
Speaker 2: something that played into some of the NAACP, like chapters

382
00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:27,400
Speaker 2: in the South that were the sort of like black

383
00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:30,199
Speaker 2: working class chapters. Is that, like so if you were

384
00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:32,320
Speaker 2: if you were an NRA chapter, you could just buy

385
00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:35,360
Speaker 2: at a really cheap bulk rate like surplus M one

386
00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:37,280
Speaker 2: gearns from the US Army and AMMO, and they would

387
00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:37,800
Speaker 2: just sell it to you.

388
00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:40,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, you can still buy them at a pretty cheap

389
00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:41,119
Speaker 5: rate to the CMP.

390
00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:43,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but you could buy like like really large

391
00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:45,679
Speaker 2: quantities of them as long as you were sort of

392
00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:48,520
Speaker 2: like you know, there was this kind of like popular

393
00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:54,040
Speaker 2: like popular like gun marksmen culture that we don't like

394
00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:55,840
Speaker 2: we have and in like our gun culture is kind

395
00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:58,160
Speaker 2: of insane, and this was like a very different thing

396
00:19:58,200 --> 00:19:58,520
Speaker 2: from there.

397
00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:02,439
Speaker 5: Yeah, definitely. And you had like Rob Williams was the

398
00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:05,600
Speaker 5: the are you failing with Rob Williams? Yeah, yeah, he

399
00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:08,080
Speaker 5: wrote a book called Negroes with Guns. He was the

400
00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:11,639
Speaker 5: he was the leader of the NRA chapter right in Monroe.

401
00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:15,360
Speaker 5: But then yeah, also a member of the NAACP, which,

402
00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:18,720
Speaker 5: like the NRA has has has pivoted a long way

403
00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:19,359
Speaker 5: from what it was.

404
00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:20,360
Speaker 3: Yeah.

405
00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:22,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, and part of what's happening here is people

406
00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:24,520
Speaker 2: are just kind of like picking up whatever institution they

407
00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:27,000
Speaker 2: have and using it to like build a movement a tool.

408
00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:27,480
Speaker 5: Yeah.

409
00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:30,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, So all right, we're gonna we're gonna move on

410
00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:35,200
Speaker 2: from Omaha and Cincinnati, like you know, so we're we're

411
00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:38,680
Speaker 2: gonnatart talking about some of the I guess you'd call

412
00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:43,440
Speaker 2: like the uprising proper. So I guess before we fully

413
00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:47,119
Speaker 2: head into this, it should be noted that there's it's generally,

414
00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:49,840
Speaker 2: you know, I talked about this before. There's generally the

415
00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:51,600
Speaker 2: way these riots are understood is as a thing that

416
00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:54,639
Speaker 2: is discontinuous from the civil rights movement, and that's just

417
00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:57,920
Speaker 2: not true. A lot of the civil rights movement, like

418
00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:01,200
Speaker 2: things that people now think of like non violent campaigns,

419
00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:05,040
Speaker 2: weren't like a lot of the stuff in Oh My

420
00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:07,159
Speaker 2: fucking like a lot a lot of the fights in Louisiana,

421
00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:09,280
Speaker 2: like are just straight up riots. Yeah. And one of

422
00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:12,000
Speaker 2: the important sort of bridge figures here is Gloria Richardson,

423
00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:14,600
Speaker 2: who's I wish we could do like an entire episode

424
00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:16,720
Speaker 2: about her right now, but that'll have to wait till later.

425
00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:21,520
Speaker 2: She's a civil rights activist in Cambridge and her movements,

426
00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:23,280
Speaker 2: like you know, like she is in a lot of

427
00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:26,080
Speaker 2: ways that like kind of dedicated non violence, but she's

428
00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:28,280
Speaker 2: very explicit that we're going to do armed self defense,

429
00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:30,359
Speaker 2: and a lot of the stuff that she leaves. I mean,

430
00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:32,400
Speaker 2: this is you know, getting back to like nineteen sixty three.

431
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:35,800
Speaker 2: Like the civil rights stuff that she's doing is extremely effective,

432
00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:37,560
Speaker 2: and a lot of it is just straight up riots,

433
00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:40,760
Speaker 2: to the point where like there's a very famous thing

434
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:42,840
Speaker 2: for the civil rights there are called the Treaty of Cambridge,

435
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:46,159
Speaker 2: where like she and her people agreed to like stop

436
00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:50,959
Speaker 2: rioting and the city agreed to completely integrate. But by

437
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:52,920
Speaker 2: the time he gets to nineteen sixty seven, they haven't

438
00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:58,000
Speaker 2: done it, and so the riots started off in Cambridge again,

439
00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:02,159
Speaker 2: and you have this incredibly sort of like summer over

440
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:04,280
Speaker 2: the course of ninety sixty seven is there's there's this

441
00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:07,639
Speaker 2: like enormous wave of riots and you know a Cambridge

442
00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:09,920
Speaker 2: a famous one, but like Detroit's another big one. And this,

443
00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:14,040
Speaker 2: I don't know, this should have given people warning that

444
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:17,840
Speaker 2: there there would be you know, giant uprisings if anyone

445
00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:22,119
Speaker 2: did anything to MLK, but apparently it didn't. And I

446
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:24,920
Speaker 2: you know, I you know what else I won't I

447
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:27,320
Speaker 2: don't know, set off I've already used the you know

448
00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:30,639
Speaker 2: what else won't set off massive waves of uprisings pivot.

449
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:32,600
Speaker 2: I really didn't prepare good enough pivots for this.

450
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:36,520
Speaker 5: What weren't assassinated civil rights leader.

451
00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:40,760
Speaker 2: We can't promise that. We really cannot promise them.

452
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:46,000
Speaker 4: No, companies would never do anything like that that talking

453
00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:46,760
Speaker 4: about dames.

454
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:49,000
Speaker 5: Certainly not the mail kit delivery. Save is that we

455
00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:50,120
Speaker 5: got mentioned by name.

456
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:04,440
Speaker 2: All right, we are back, so all right, it is

457
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:07,920
Speaker 2: now officially timed for Holy Week. So on April fourth,

458
00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:12,159
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty eight, MLK is giving is you know, like

459
00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:15,120
Speaker 2: he is preparing to support a bunch of striking sanitation

460
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:18,200
Speaker 2: workers and they fucking kill him. Who the they is

461
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:22,080
Speaker 2: is kind of unclear. Mlk's family later sued the US

462
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:25,000
Speaker 2: government to make the government prove that they didn't have

463
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:27,520
Speaker 2: they weren't involved in the assassination. The government paid them

464
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:32,159
Speaker 2: one dollar instead, So you know, make of that what

465
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:34,639
Speaker 2: you will. But what did happen is that, you know,

466
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:40,440
Speaker 2: he was killed by white people. And this this detonates

467
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:44,520
Speaker 2: a fucking nuclear weapon in the US. You know, reading

468
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:49,120
Speaker 2: accounts to me, it reminds me of the first week

469
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:51,119
Speaker 2: of the George Floyd up risings in twenty twenty. I

470
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 2: want people remember this. There's this picture of this guy

471
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,760
Speaker 2: in Philly with an Elmo like wearing like an Elmo

472
00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:00,159
Speaker 2: like head, and he has his fist rays and he's

473
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:01,480
Speaker 2: standing in front of a bunch of things of fire

474
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:04,040
Speaker 2: like this. This is what this is what that looks like.

475
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:05,760
Speaker 2: I'm going to read a quote from one of the

476
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,280
Speaker 2: people who was people who was there. I mean I

477
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:10,360
Speaker 2: was sad when I first heard the dues of King's death,

478
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 2: but not but not like the world around me. The

479
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 2: city was burning and I'm walking through the city and

480
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:17,960
Speaker 2: the city is burning, and that's what we wanted. This

481
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:20,760
Speaker 2: was our time. I mean fire all around my house.

482
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:22,680
Speaker 2: I mean my house almost got caught on fire when

483
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,159
Speaker 2: I was living because Seventh Street, the whole block was burning.

484
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:27,680
Speaker 2: And it was just we thought we were in a

485
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:32,600
Speaker 2: war again. Simple. Simple. One of the interesting parts about

486
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:34,399
Speaker 2: this is at a lot of civil rights leaders, and

487
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:36,680
Speaker 2: this is not just true of like obviously the moderate

488
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:38,640
Speaker 2: civil rights leaders are trying to tell people not to riot,

489
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,879
Speaker 2: but even like Stokesly Carmichael like comes out to the

490
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:45,160
Speaker 2: crowd and tries to go like please don't like, don't

491
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:47,600
Speaker 2: ryot don't do this, and the crowd basically tells him

492
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:52,600
Speaker 2: to fuck off and does it anyways, And the fact

493
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 2: that they killed MLK, who was you know, m Oka

494
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 2: was I mean, like even at that time, like the

495
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:02,280
Speaker 2: sort of living human symbol of nonviolence, right, but he

496
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 2: was also the symbol of sort of cooperation, of of

497
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:08,680
Speaker 2: of this belief that you know, you could you could

498
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 2: do sort of peaceful that you do people, peaceful integration.

499
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:14,440
Speaker 2: This is something that MLK is kind of like even

500
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 2: he's kind of getting cynical about by by sixty eight.

501
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:21,680
Speaker 2: But the fact that they killed him, it, it is,

502
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 2: it is a kind of psychological blow that I don't

503
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:31,440
Speaker 2: think we've ever experienced. Like maybe maybe if if you

504
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:35,359
Speaker 2: took like if you took like Trump's election like on

505
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:37,879
Speaker 2: at the same time as a twenty twenty uprising, that

506
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:43,240
Speaker 2: like maybe maybe kind of captures what people are feeling

507
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,160
Speaker 2: in this moment. And I want to read another account.

508
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:48,919
Speaker 2: I want to read an account that's it's it's it's

509
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 2: it's sort of secondhand account by this priest. It's like

510
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 2: a Catholic priest in a largely black area. This this

511
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 2: is from the Great Uprising, Yet other observers saw the

512
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:04,600
Speaker 2: uprising as a clear protest against the persistence of racial inequality.

513
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:08,639
Speaker 2: Father Richard Lawrence, an activist priest whose Catholic parish served

514
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,680
Speaker 2: many blacks, recalled encountering one of his parishioners on the

515
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 2: street after the revolt had begun. Father, you don't understand.

516
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:19,200
Speaker 2: I know you've been with the demonstrations and all that

517
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 2: sort of thing, the parishioner explained to Lawrence, But you

518
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:25,439
Speaker 2: were born white and you can't really totally understand. I mean,

519
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 2: I've done the civil rights thing too, you know it.

520
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:29,480
Speaker 2: I've been there. I've been to the marches, I've been

521
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 2: to the rallies, you name it. Nobody's listening, His parishioner continued, murdering,

522
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:37,879
Speaker 2: doctor King was just the last straw that nobody's listening.

523
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 2: We can go on demonstrating as long as we want.

524
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:44,359
Speaker 2: No one will listen. I don't know what to try next,

525
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:46,880
Speaker 2: but maybe blood flowing in the streets is what it takes.

526
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:49,480
Speaker 2: Maybe some of his blood with some of my blood

527
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 2: flows in the streets, then maybe the man will listen.

528
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 2: Maybe not, but I've got nothing left to try. I

529
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 2: don't care if I got killed. I've got two kids

530
00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:58,440
Speaker 2: and I'm not going to have them come up in

531
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:00,879
Speaker 2: the world I came up up in. I'm just not

532
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 2: going to have it. And this is this is I

533
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:06,639
Speaker 2: think a really important part of these riots is that

534
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 2: these are people who had fought, who had fought for

535
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:14,160
Speaker 2: a decade over it. I mean, it's this place about

536
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 2: a decade and a half of struggle. They've done everything.

537
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:18,880
Speaker 2: They've done strikes, they've done boycotts, they've done sit ins,

538
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 2: they've voted, they got the right to vote, right, they marched,

539
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:26,119
Speaker 2: they did civil disobedience, and you know the product of

540
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 2: this is that they're living in a dilapidated house with

541
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:33,119
Speaker 2: a shitty job, and then they fucking killed MLK and

542
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 2: the country burns. The National Guard straight up is there

543
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 2: there are there are like there are just straight up

544
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 2: military occupations in an enormous number of cities. DC is

545
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 2: occupied by like the five hundred and third Military Police Battalion,

546
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,920
Speaker 2: National Guard and famously the eighty second Airborne. So like

547
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 2: the regular US Army is being sent into to like

548
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:56,880
Speaker 2: to like is being sent into these cities. The level

549
00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 2: of sort of burning here too. And this is the

550
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:01,840
Speaker 2: thing that's I think kind of the most famous part

551
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 2: of these riots. Is they burn staggering parts of cities.

552
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:11,159
Speaker 2: There are I mean, just like unbelievable numbers of buildings

553
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 2: are burned, and people people sort of people, people go

554
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:19,359
Speaker 2: out to fight people are people are shooting at the police,

555
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:20,880
Speaker 2: the police are shooting back at them. I mean, there's

556
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:22,359
Speaker 2: I wasn't able to find the footage. One of my

557
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 2: friends was telling me about, Like there's there's footage from

558
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 2: from news people in New York of like a guy

559
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:29,879
Speaker 2: shooting outside of a window, and they have footage of

560
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 2: like a police like swat team. Basically I think it's

561
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:36,720
Speaker 2: like still pre swap, like a police like team coming

562
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 2: in just killing him. And you know, I mean Richard M.

563
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 2: Daley famously has has a here's the mayor of Chicago

564
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 2: has a shoot to kill order. You know, his his

565
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 2: words are, quote shoot to kill any arsonists or anyone

566
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 2: with a Molotov cocktail, and quote shoot to cripple or

567
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 2: mame anyone looting any stores in our city. Jesus. It's

568
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 2: really fucking bad. And you know, this is something that's

569
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 2: that's about about these these riots, right Like, Okay, if

570
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 2: if you look at even the watch riot, or if

571
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 2: you look at twenty twenty. If you look at like

572
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 2: twenty fourteen, like the Baltimore Uprising in twenty fifteen, there

573
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 2: are like people having a good time. Like this is

574
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:16,640
Speaker 2: always the thing in riots. There's always like someone who's

575
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 2: like having a great time. Fucking no one. I read

576
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:22,960
Speaker 2: like dozens and dozens and dozens of interviews of people

577
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 2: from people from the Holy Week up Prising. Every single

578
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 2: person involved in this is having the absolute worst time

579
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 2: of their lives. That's like on every single side, right

580
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 2: that everyone is fucking miserable. And you know, but part

581
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 2: part of what's happening here too is these are these

582
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 2: these uprisings are also about Vietnam, because you know, a

583
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 2: lot of these people either have been sent to Vietnam

584
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 2: or like their families have been sent to Vietnam. Black

585
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 2: people are dying at an unbelievable rate in Vietnam, and

586
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:53,440
Speaker 2: these people come back and they're like, well, we're gonna

587
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 2: fucking die anyway, So I'd rather die. I'd rather go

588
00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 2: out fighting the cops than, you know, than than dying

589
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:02,240
Speaker 2: in Vietnam. And also, you know what I've been talking

590
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 2: a lot about kind of like the stipers in the windows,

591
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 2: but one of the most common ways people get killed. Well, okay,

592
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 2: probably the most common ways they get trapped into a

593
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 2: burning building, which is terrible. But one of the other

594
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 2: really common ways is that these are these are gun fights.

595
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:19,960
Speaker 2: You know, we kind of saw this in twenty twenty.

596
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:22,920
Speaker 2: There's a bunch there are like white store owners are

597
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 2: like popping out of their businesses to take pot shots

598
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 2: at a protesters, and like they're they're you know, one

599
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 2: of the people that they interviewed was a guy who

600
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,719
Speaker 2: had been like walking past a store and the guy

601
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 2: had pulled out a gun and shot him, and he

602
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 2: had he had managed shop, but the guy next to

603
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 2: him got shoped, so if he took out a molotov

604
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 2: and like burned the store down. And this is a

605
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 2: lot of the kind of dynamics of this, right are

606
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 2: like it's not just that people are furious. It's not

607
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 2: just the people sort of you know, like people want

608
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 2: this world to burn. It's that like they are very

609
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 2: directly responding to the fact that the like white people

610
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 2: also fucking lose their minds when this starts happening, and

611
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 2: you you get this degree of sort of urban conflict

612
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 2: that kind of you know, we don't really have this

613
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:11,560
Speaker 2: now no here. Yeah, like like eve, even our riots

614
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 2: are like largely nonviolent, like people don't shoot it out

615
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 2: with the cops or each other in the same way

616
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 2: that like, you know, like like it happens sometimes like

617
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 2: this is happening fucking all over the country. Like this

618
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 2: is happening in like like like you know, like like

619
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 2: fucking small ass cities in the Midwest, there are people

620
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 2: getting in gunfights, right, you know, and so eventually, Okay,

621
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 2: So the other very important thing about this that is

622
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 2: that's really interesting and not marked upon very much is that. Okay,

623
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 2: So like obviously the police in Chicago go fucking feral, right,

624
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 2: The National Guard commanders come in and like the general

625
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 2: of the National Guard goes, okay, you motherfuckers, you're gonna

626
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 2: kill someone. None of you are allowed to have loaded weapons.

627
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:02,480
Speaker 2: You're allowed to have loaded weapons. And I mean these guys,

628
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 2: I'll say, like they have bayonets on their rifles. This

629
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 2: used to be a thing, like they used bayonets as

630
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 2: a form of like like a less special weapon. They

631
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 2: just fucking stab you with a bee and you know,

632
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:16,960
Speaker 2: they their bayatra order to be covered. And because of this,

633
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 2: the Guard doesn't actually kill anyonean this dream the sixty

634
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 2: eight riots, unlike the Sicky seven riots where they fucking

635
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 2: murdered a bunch of people. And this was a really

636
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 2: smart decision by the National Guard people because if they

637
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 2: had started actually shooting into these crowds like this wouldn't

638
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 2: have been one week of really intense rioting that ends

639
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 2: with the Civil Rights Sack, which we'll talk about, Well,

640
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 2: it doesn't end with the Civil Right Sack, but like,

641
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 2: you know, it could have sort of gets that this

642
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 2: would have been like apocalyptic on a scale that I

643
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:50,479
Speaker 2: don't think anyone kind of like has the capacity to imagine.

644
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 2: But instead they kind of, you know, there's really intense riots,

645
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 2: they kind of they kind of wind down over the

646
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 2: course of a couple of months, and like they kind

647
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 2: of they wind down faster in a lot of ways

648
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 2: than twenty twenty did. But on the other hand, that

649
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 2: is not the end of these riots. And the thing

650
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 2: I want to close this episode on while we're going

651
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 2: to talk about I feel, okay, le let's talk about

652
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 2: Civil Rights Act first, because it is a very very

653
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 2: weird piece of legislation. So like five days in now seven,

654
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 2: a weekend to the riots, Congress passes the Civil Rights

655
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 2: Act of nineteen sixty eight. And this is a very,

656
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 2: very weird piece of legislation. I mean, it's obviously this

657
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:38,720
Speaker 2: is something that's been like frantically like scrambled out because

658
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 2: like this, you know, the like there are just straight

659
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 2: up armed uprisings in a huge portion of the United States,

660
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 2: and Congress's responses, so they passed the Fair Housing Act.

661
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 2: That's like, that's probably the most famous part of this bill.

662
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 2: It is very I mean it it has done. It's

663
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 2: not like a perfect piece of legislation, but it has

664
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 2: done a staggering amount of good, right and it is

665
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 2: in some sense a direct answer to the protesters demands, right,

666
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 2: like it does improve discrimination of sort of housing. But

667
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 2: it's also okay, there's a bunch of stuff about the

668
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 2: Bill of Rights applying to indigenous people that is good,

669
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 2: but we'll cover that. I don't know, maybe if we

670
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 2: do an aim occupation episode, we'll talk about that more later.

671
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 2: That's kind of outside the scope of this one. But

672
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 2: the other part of it is this absolutely dranged like

673
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 2: conspiracy thing about like because like so the line you know,

674
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 2: the line here as it wasn't twenty twenty, So this

675
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:40,800
Speaker 2: is all being caused by outside agitators. So part of

676
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:43,919
Speaker 2: this thing is what's known as the Riot Act, which

677
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:49,400
Speaker 2: is it bans like quote travel and interstate commerce with

678
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 2: the intent to incite, promote, engage to participate in or

679
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:55,400
Speaker 2: carry out a riot. It's not used very much, but

680
00:34:55,840 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 2: this is like straight up a conspiracy theory. So it's

681
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 2: a conspiracy theory about what happened in the nineteen sixty

682
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 2: seven uprising in Cambridge. So like that that uprising, like

683
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 2: that's the thing that produced Spireau Agnew, who was like

684
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 2: Nixon's deranged VP, who Nixon picked to be so deranged

685
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:17,359
Speaker 2: that no one wouldssassinate him because asassinating him would put

686
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 2: spuiau Agnu in charge. Like Agnew had been like a liberal,

687
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:24,400
Speaker 2: like he'd been a liberal Republican. But then there were

688
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 2: these riots in Cambridge sixty eight in sixty seven, and

689
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 2: the narrative that comes out of it is what happened

690
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:32,880
Speaker 2: was a Black power leader named H. H. Rat Brown

691
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 2: came in and gave a speech and then there was

692
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:36,280
Speaker 2: like riots, right, and this is this is the standard

693
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 2: line for like seventy years. What actually happened was that

694
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 2: he gave you know, rap gives Rep. Brown age. Rep.

695
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:45,359
Speaker 2: Brown gives a very militant speech, right, Like he does

696
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:47,479
Speaker 2: give a speech telling people to burn a school down,

697
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:49,360
Speaker 2: like he's saying, you need to like five people. But

698
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,960
Speaker 2: then everyone just goes home, as h Rap Brown is is,

699
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:56,480
Speaker 2: you know, they're like dispersing this young woman asked to

700
00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:58,319
Speaker 2: be escort at home just and get beat up by

701
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 2: the police, and so h Rap Brown and thirty people

702
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 2: like okay, and so they try to go home and

703
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 2: the police walk up to them and start shooting them

704
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 2: with shotguns. Ahrap Brown gets hit by a fucking chockgun

705
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 2: blast and that that is the book. It was after

706
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:14,319
Speaker 2: that that the rioting started, right, So, yeah, so that's

707
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:16,400
Speaker 2: what actually happened, But but the memory of it is

708
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:17,839
Speaker 2: that it was like, oh, like these these like these

709
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:20,400
Speaker 2: black nationalists came in and they started this riot, and

710
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 2: like this literally is now law in the US, and

711
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 2: this is this is very famously. At the end of

712
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:26,880
Speaker 2: this episode, we're going to talk about who this was

713
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 2: used against. But before wanting to do that, I need

714
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:32,839
Speaker 2: to make it clear these riots don't end in sixty eight, right,

715
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:35,719
Speaker 2: And in fact, I think the one that is the

716
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 2: most intensive these is York in York, Pennsylvania, which I

717
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:42,279
Speaker 2: promise you the beginning of this episode we were going

718
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 2: to do, and that is in nineteen sixty nine. Because again,

719
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 2: like the conditions that cause these erb and uprisings like

720
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 2: haven't changed. So you know, like the the immediate flames

721
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,400
Speaker 2: of sort of like of the Holy Week uprising, like

722
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 2: of this rebellion by MLK sort of you know, eventually

723
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:02,759
Speaker 2: trickle out, but there's just more of them. So this

724
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:05,000
Speaker 2: is another one one of the things you come across

725
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:07,239
Speaker 2: when you research this is that like every single the

726
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:11,319
Speaker 2: conventional like accepted public narrative, but why these started, They're

727
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:15,680
Speaker 2: all wrong this one. So it's generally attributed to this

728
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:18,279
Speaker 2: black kid lying but being set on fire and like

729
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:21,960
Speaker 2: that did happen, but this kid's like fourteen, right, But

730
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:23,759
Speaker 2: what actually happened was that there were two black guys

731
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:26,400
Speaker 2: talking to a black police officer and two members of

732
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:30,320
Speaker 2: this like white power white supremacist street gang like walked

733
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 2: up and shot them both. And this kicks off a

734
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:38,680
Speaker 2: series of shootings, brickings, and fistfights between black and white

735
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 2: people like all over the city. And this is a

736
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:43,440
Speaker 2: kind of this is also the other kind of right

737
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 2: in this period like we don't really have this anymore

738
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:49,840
Speaker 2: like there, but you know there are places where just

739
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:52,680
Speaker 2: effectively straight up race wars start. Well, you know, one

740
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 2: of the things happens here. This happens in a lot

741
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:56,600
Speaker 2: of cities. They'll just be like a bunch of white

742
00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:59,239
Speaker 2: people in a van driving around shooting at people out

743
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:02,920
Speaker 2: their windows and we sort you know the like this

744
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 2: happened in Portland, right, but it was like they were

745
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:07,880
Speaker 2: shooting paintballs. These guys are just shooting actual guns, like

746
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:10,759
Speaker 2: out their windows any black people they see on the street. Right,

747
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:14,839
Speaker 2: there's there's a crowd of like eventually like protest start

748
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 2: like this, this crowd of like pretty well armed black

749
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:20,879
Speaker 2: people and this uh and and and like a line

750
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:25,040
Speaker 2: of cops are facing each other, and you know this

751
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 2: is one of these There's two sides to the story.

752
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:28,359
Speaker 2: The cops claim that the crowd just started shooting at them,

753
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:31,320
Speaker 2: Like everyone in the crowd claims that the cops shot

754
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 2: at them first, and they started shooting back, And so

755
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:35,360
Speaker 2: there's just this fucking shootout between the cops and this

756
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:37,920
Speaker 2: this giant crowd. There are like there are reports of

757
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:40,960
Speaker 2: cops like just set up on the rooftop of a factory,

758
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,920
Speaker 2: just shooting everyone they can find, like white gangs or

759
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:48,680
Speaker 2: firebombing black houses. One of the I don't like it.

760
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:50,759
Speaker 2: It's said that like should be infamous, but like I've

761
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 2: never fucking seen talked about anywhere is uh a fucking

762
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:56,920
Speaker 2: police armored truck. There's a bunch of people who have

763
00:38:57,120 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 2: come out to their lawn to figure out what the

764
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 2: fuck is going on, and the police are truck rolls

765
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 2: up and just starts shooting them, and so, you know,

766
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 2: people and people start shooting back, and there's a bunch

767
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:10,759
Speaker 2: of like like people. People eventually get sort of tried

768
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:13,840
Speaker 2: for this. And one of the you know, one of

769
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:15,200
Speaker 2: the things people talk about it is like, yeah, there's

770
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 2: like twenty guys in their houses like having a shootout

771
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:19,920
Speaker 2: with this armored car because the armored car is just

772
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:23,360
Speaker 2: fucking starting murdering everyone. And you know, the sort of

773
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:25,800
Speaker 2: remarkable thing about this, I mean, one of the markable

774
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 2: things about this is that literally the day before this happens,

775
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 2: all of these cops had been at a police training

776
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 2: seminar about the best way to respond to civil unrest. Amazing,

777
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:39,920
Speaker 2: and the police seminar and they're like, correctly, because this

778
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:41,960
Speaker 2: is actually, if you are the police, the best way

779
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:44,120
Speaker 2: to handle one of these sort of uprisings, you know,

780
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:45,960
Speaker 2: they're told, they're told, and no one certain terms. The

781
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:48,840
Speaker 2: best way to do this is do not confront the crowd.

782
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:53,160
Speaker 2: Do not shoot at the crowd like you know, okay,

783
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:55,879
Speaker 2: like do like containment, but don't go don't like walk

784
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:57,680
Speaker 2: up and fight them, because that will make people fight

785
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 2: them back. And then literally the next day they are

786
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:04,480
Speaker 2: having running shootouts with like the entire black population of

787
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 2: this town. And you know, like York is a place

788
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:09,080
Speaker 2: that has had civil rights stupment stuff before this, it's

789
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:11,400
Speaker 2: also has you know again like it has just literal

790
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:14,480
Speaker 2: white power, like street gangs who the police are in.

791
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 2: I mean the police literally just call them the boys

792
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:19,719
Speaker 2: like that. That's how, that's how, that's how tight these

793
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:20,160
Speaker 2: people are.

794
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 3: Right.

795
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:23,120
Speaker 2: But and this is the thing, you know, one of

796
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:24,719
Speaker 2: the notes I want to close on is that like

797
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 2: a lot of the focus and I get why people focus,

798
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:30,200
Speaker 2: there's a lot of the focus from sort of radical

799
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:34,720
Speaker 2: accounts of this period is about you know, because these riots,

800
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 2: these uprisings like these are this is the crucible in

801
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:39,560
Speaker 2: which sort of black power is forged in and so

802
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 2: There's a lot of attention paid to sort of like

803
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 2: black power, like people who are going to become Black

804
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 2: power leaders and people influenced by these movements like doing

805
00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:51,720
Speaker 2: arm self defense, and that is true and that is important,

806
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:57,359
Speaker 2: but also just regular ass people are also doing this, right,

807
00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:01,360
Speaker 2: Like the guys, the twenty guys who are having a

808
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:05,480
Speaker 2: shootout with a police armored vehicle, they are just like

809
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 2: some of them are Vietnam vets, but like they're just

810
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:11,720
Speaker 2: they're they're just regular people who saw the police fucking

811
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:14,160
Speaker 2: roll up like into like roll up on a fucking

812
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:17,759
Speaker 2: house and start shooting people. There is a sense in

813
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 2: you know, in this period that the thing that guns

814
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:25,480
Speaker 2: are for are to protect you from the government, right,

815
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 2: and people actually believe this, like JFK. You know, one

816
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 2: there's a really good article in Strange Matters called the

817
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:35,839
Speaker 2: Double Kind of Resergency that's about this, that talks about

818
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:38,319
Speaker 2: how JFK literally gives a speech where he talks about

819
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:40,719
Speaker 2: like again, who is a liberal gives a speech about

820
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:42,399
Speaker 2: how like, yeah, we need guns to defend it yourself

821
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:46,319
Speaker 2: against the tyurity of the government, and yeah, like if

822
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:48,960
Speaker 2: you are a black person in York in nineteen sixty

823
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 2: nine and you are watching the police from an armored

824
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:55,840
Speaker 2: vehicle shooting people on their front lawn. The response people

825
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 2: had was, Okay, we're gonna die here or we're gonna

826
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 2: die in Vietnam, and so I'm gonna I'm I am

827
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:04,960
Speaker 2: choosing to die here fighting the cops. And that's I

828
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:09,400
Speaker 2: think that's important. I think because a lot of you know,

829
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:11,480
Speaker 2: a lot of what we're going to talk about next. Right,

830
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 2: are these student radicals. And everyone now looks at these

831
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:19,879
Speaker 2: student radicals and goes, these people were insane. These people

832
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:22,600
Speaker 2: were stupid. These people didn't understand what was happening. There

833
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:24,719
Speaker 2: was no way a revolution was ever going to happen.

834
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 2: And they're wrong. Those people are fucking wrong. What these

835
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 2: people were watching, right, They were watching this. They were

836
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 2: watching hundreds of cities going into open revolt. They were

837
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:40,759
Speaker 2: watching people having shootouts with the cops. They were watching

838
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 2: and people people tended not to shoot the national Guard

839
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 2: because people had enough military experience to realize that if

840
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:47,520
Speaker 2: you try to shoot the national Guard, you're not gonna

841
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:49,799
Speaker 2: win because they have machine guns and stuff. But people

842
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:51,840
Speaker 2: did it still right there, there are still numbers of

843
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:56,000
Speaker 2: this that they are watching. They're watching armed up risings

844
00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 2: in basically every every major in mind not even major,

845
00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:02,920
Speaker 2: every like minor American city has one of these. And

846
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:06,800
Speaker 2: these people assume that this is the revolution and that

847
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 2: you know, like that this is this is the opening

848
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:10,960
Speaker 2: stage of the revolution, that it's coming, and they weren't

849
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:15,160
Speaker 2: they weren't wrong to think that, like it didn't happen.

850
00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:19,319
Speaker 2: But it's not that these people, like, you know, it's

851
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:21,480
Speaker 2: not that these people were sort of nive or foolish.

852
00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 2: It was they they had the same rational reaction to

853
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:27,959
Speaker 2: what they were seeing that the f behind the Nixton

854
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:32,279
Speaker 2: administration did. And I think that's the place I'm going

855
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 2: to close. So I think the next one of these

856
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:36,480
Speaker 2: episodes is going to be about the Columbia student occupations.

857
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:40,400
Speaker 2: But the one after that, well, I m might be

858
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 2: basically staying there, but we are eventually going to get

859
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:44,600
Speaker 2: to the DNC all part. And I promised you the

860
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:47,920
Speaker 2: a thing about the people who were charged under the

861
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:50,360
Speaker 2: Riot Act. Yeah, so the people who are going to

862
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:52,280
Speaker 2: the most videos, people who are going to be charged

863
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:55,280
Speaker 2: with this like interstate riot shit or the Chicago seven

864
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:59,680
Speaker 2: seven people arrested at the Democratic National Convention. So, uh,

865
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:03,360
Speaker 2: when we come back in however long it takes to

866
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:05,160
Speaker 2: do the rest of the ninety six yea, so for

867
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 2: you do. Before we get to that, we will come

868
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:11,960
Speaker 2: back to this Civil Rights Act fucking over a bunch

869
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:12,720
Speaker 2: of people's lives.

870
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:29,400
Speaker 5: I'm going to look forward to that. Hi everyone, and

871
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 5: welcome to the podcast. It could happen here. It's a

872
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:35,040
Speaker 5: podcast about the world falling apart and people putting it

873
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:37,399
Speaker 5: back together. Today we've got a little bit of both.

874
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:40,279
Speaker 5: I'm joined again by Mick and Rose. This time we'll

875
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:43,959
Speaker 5: be discussing the treatment of migrants inside the European Union,

876
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:46,759
Speaker 5: and specifically the treatment of migrants by the government of

877
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:49,680
Speaker 5: the Netherlands in a place called ter Apple. Welcome to

878
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:51,560
Speaker 5: the show, guys. Thanks thanks for joining us.

879
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:54,600
Speaker 3: Thanks good to be back, Thanks for having us.

880
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:57,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, thank you. It's good to have you. I wonder

881
00:44:57,600 --> 00:44:59,040
Speaker 5: if you could beg game. We were talking about this

882
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:02,880
Speaker 5: before you record it, and I think it's very obviously

883
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:05,920
Speaker 5: the migration laws in Europe are very different, but so

884
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:11,560
Speaker 5: the situations with regard to shelter and just like facilities,

885
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:13,560
Speaker 5: with the US being so big, we have them dotted

886
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:16,800
Speaker 5: all over the place. So you were just explaining that

887
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:19,360
Speaker 5: this is a place where anyone who wants to register

888
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:21,120
Speaker 5: for asylum in the Netherlands has to go.

889
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:25,719
Speaker 3: Is that right? Yeah, so that's almost entirely right. So

890
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:27,879
Speaker 3: everyone who arrives in the nets and wants to ask

891
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 3: for asylum has to go to this village all the

892
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 3: way on the northeastern border with Germany, and that's where

893
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:38,640
Speaker 3: the only registration center is for most asylum seekers. I

894
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 3: believe only people who do family reunification can go somewhere else.

895
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:46,200
Speaker 3: But yeah, we have like one registration center for the

896
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:51,279
Speaker 3: entire country. And yeah, yeah, I mean we have a

897
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:56,440
Speaker 3: tiny country, but it still became a huge bubblewreck because

898
00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:57,439
Speaker 3: it was the only one.

899
00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:02,319
Speaker 5: So it didn't work out that well apparently, and that's

900
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:04,719
Speaker 5: why we're talking about it, right, So just so people

901
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:07,440
Speaker 5: understand where these people are in their asylum journey, Like

902
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:11,640
Speaker 5: they've entered the EU, right, and then they've traveled to

903
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:13,320
Speaker 5: the Netlands, which is a country where they want to

904
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:14,360
Speaker 5: claim asylum.

905
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 3: Is that right? Yeah, exactly, So basically they arrived at

906
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 3: their final destination. So most people that I met inter

907
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:27,200
Speaker 3: Apple had already been traveling for weeks, months, sometimes years,

908
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:30,160
Speaker 3: depending on how much money and luck they had. Usually

909
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:34,439
Speaker 3: so Yeah, they would have either crossed the Mediterranean Sea

910
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:39,399
Speaker 3: or gotten into Europe through Turkey or Belarus, and then

911
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:41,600
Speaker 3: they would have crossed many many borders and many many

912
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:45,120
Speaker 3: border guards and fences yep. And they would have gotten

913
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:48,480
Speaker 3: stuck in places for weeks or months before they could

914
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:52,279
Speaker 3: move on again. Yeah. And people who would actually go

915
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 3: to the registration center in the Netherlands, that means they

916
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:58,840
Speaker 3: wanted to ask for asylum there and probably stay there.

917
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:01,640
Speaker 5: Right, that would be their country of residents going forward.

918
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:05,560
Speaker 5: So can you explain I mean, I'm looking at pictures

919
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 5: of it right now. It's not hard if you if

920
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:09,680
Speaker 5: you want to look at pictures, you can spell it

921
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:13,560
Speaker 5: t er A p e L. But can you explain

922
00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:17,680
Speaker 5: the condition said, because looking at it, it's atrocious, like

923
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:19,120
Speaker 5: from the pictures I can see.

924
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:22,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I saw many pictures before I went

925
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:26,759
Speaker 3: there myself. It's basically just a tenth camp, So I

926
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:30,200
Speaker 3: mean it's a it's a shelter, right, So it's like

927
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:33,239
Speaker 3: it used to be an army base. It can hold

928
00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:36,600
Speaker 3: two thousand people. It has loads of like small housing

929
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:38,800
Speaker 3: units where people live. It has like a lot of

930
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:43,000
Speaker 3: offices for all the registration steps, and like the yeah,

931
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:47,560
Speaker 3: the immigration service, the police, the shelter organization like blah blah, blah,

932
00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:51,040
Speaker 3: bah blah. But so like one and a half year ago,

933
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:53,840
Speaker 3: there was a lack of shelter in the whole country,

934
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 3: but specifically also went there Apple and yeah, somehow the

935
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:01,680
Speaker 3: authorities decided that the solution would be to just leave

936
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:04,760
Speaker 3: people on the field that was inside of the registration

937
00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:07,800
Speaker 3: in front of the registration center, and so there was

938
00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:13,239
Speaker 3: just an informal camp, like people were sleeping outside for

939
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:16,759
Speaker 3: weeks or months, not even intense, but they would have

940
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:20,319
Speaker 3: like huge kind of banners or tarps that would kind

941
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:23,040
Speaker 3: of provide some shade. So it was like midsummer. It

942
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:26,359
Speaker 3: was a very dry summer, which for us was crazy lucky.

943
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:34,080
Speaker 3: The climate activists were not happy, but we were happy. Yeah.

944
00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:37,640
Speaker 3: So yeah, people were just like laying on the ground

945
00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:41,600
Speaker 3: and that was Yeah, there were some that water that

946
00:48:41,719 --> 00:48:45,680
Speaker 3: were like dixies for toilets that were obviously gross, and

947
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:47,719
Speaker 3: so yeah, what you would see if you google it,

948
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:50,600
Speaker 3: you just see people lying on the field and just

949
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:54,520
Speaker 3: being there for extended periods of time. But when I

950
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:56,719
Speaker 3: personally went there the first time, it was kind of

951
00:48:56,800 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 3: worse than what I expected. It to be because I

952
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:03,840
Speaker 3: think the level of neglect was not visible on photo

953
00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:07,080
Speaker 3: or on video. So people would come to us and

954
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:09,800
Speaker 3: tell us that they had show us really big wounds

955
00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:13,000
Speaker 3: that were infected, or people would come and tell us like, hey,

956
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:14,840
Speaker 3: I had a heart attack a few weeks ago, I

957
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:19,120
Speaker 3: need this medication, or I have diabetes or whatever. So

958
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:24,759
Speaker 3: there was just this dystopian situation of this enormous facility

959
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:27,480
Speaker 3: that can hold thousands of people and then a big

960
00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:31,359
Speaker 3: fence around it, and then people with clearly like very

961
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:33,799
Speaker 3: serious medical conditions just standing in front of the gate

962
00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:38,360
Speaker 3: and the security guards just being like now maybe like

963
00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:41,520
Speaker 3: a staff member will show up today, maybe not, but

964
00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:45,960
Speaker 3: like we don't care how dangerous situation is or something. Yeah,

965
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:48,960
Speaker 3: just the fact that there was like no proper place

966
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:53,640
Speaker 3: to wash, there were no toilets. The food was like, yeah,

967
00:49:53,719 --> 00:49:57,560
Speaker 3: I worked in camps across the borders, across European borders,

968
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:00,880
Speaker 3: and I've seen a lot of like horrible food. But

969
00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:05,120
Speaker 3: like in their Apple, they just decided to rent a Yeah,

970
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:08,800
Speaker 3: like if you have like a party or something, you

971
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:11,360
Speaker 3: would just rent this place that will just sell fries.

972
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:14,440
Speaker 3: So they were just giving fries to people like every

973
00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:20,960
Speaker 3: single day Jesus. Yeah, just I mean just just pre

974
00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:23,239
Speaker 3: packed food from the supermarket would be more healthy than

975
00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:27,000
Speaker 3: just fries every day for a month, right, Yeah, So

976
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:30,600
Speaker 3: just a level of like, yeah, neglect, lack of care.

977
00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:35,200
Speaker 3: It was just even even more than what you can

978
00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:36,600
Speaker 3: see on the pictures.

979
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:41,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, and like a complete like lack of like failure

980
00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:44,000
Speaker 5: of the government to address their basic rights and needs.

981
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:48,200
Speaker 5: And how long can people expect to spend in that situation? Then,

982
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:49,960
Speaker 5: like they have to they have to go there, right,

983
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:52,520
Speaker 5: like if they want the asylum, they have to go there.

984
00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:56,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, so like the the irony wasn't the only way

985
00:50:56,120 --> 00:50:58,960
Speaker 3: to get shelter was to be there and then be

986
00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:02,920
Speaker 3: without shelter or you wouldn't know how long like right, Yeah,

987
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:05,279
Speaker 3: I mean sometimes it was hours, especially for their women

988
00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:07,799
Speaker 3: and children. It was usually they would usually be let

989
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:12,920
Speaker 3: in in the evening, but yeah, men definitely days sometimes

990
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:15,880
Speaker 3: if they were not lucky, weeks, And it was just

991
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:21,560
Speaker 3: also so like unclear, so people would just not get

992
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:24,600
Speaker 3: any information. They would be there and then all of

993
00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:27,720
Speaker 3: a sudden hear someone shout and all start running towards

994
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:29,800
Speaker 3: where the shout came from because maybe they would be

995
00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:33,279
Speaker 3: let in or yeah, I don't know, like guards would

996
00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:35,279
Speaker 3: just shout at them in Dutch and then be like

997
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 3: why don't you understand me? Or like it was all

998
00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:42,480
Speaker 3: just like consciously like it's so unnecessarily chaotic and therefore

999
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:46,840
Speaker 3: also like people pushing around police getting like intimidating and

1000
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:53,680
Speaker 3: violent and yeah, just this very chaotic and disrespectful approach

1001
00:51:53,840 --> 00:51:54,680
Speaker 3: to people.

1002
00:51:55,680 --> 00:51:59,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's worryingly similar to what we see in open

1003
00:51:59,719 --> 00:52:03,160
Speaker 5: aired tension sites here, Like they'll do it. People are

1004
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:06,399
Speaker 5: outside there too, they have an exce no shelter there too.

1005
00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:10,759
Speaker 5: We volunteers make the food, so it's better than that. Yeah,

1006
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:12,279
Speaker 5: they'll turn up in a bus, like I've seen them

1007
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:14,480
Speaker 5: turn up in a bus and just shout run and

1008
00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:18,000
Speaker 5: like if you understand English, you run. If you don't

1009
00:52:18,080 --> 00:52:20,279
Speaker 5: stand English, you see everyone else running, so you run.

1010
00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:22,799
Speaker 5: And then they can only take thirty people, and you've

1011
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:25,400
Speaker 5: now had more than one hundred people come stampeding across,

1012
00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:29,160
Speaker 5: like just if you've got to grab their bags and everything,

1013
00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:34,279
Speaker 5: and it's yeah, completely unnecessarily chaotic and cruel. And then

1014
00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:37,360
Speaker 5: once they let in, what can they expect from that?

1015
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:39,520
Speaker 5: They're saying it like a barracks or something. While there

1016
00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:40,560
Speaker 5: while they're processed.

1017
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:45,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it was very very chaotic. I think it

1018
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:48,600
Speaker 3: took them like almost a year to actually process everyone,

1019
00:52:48,719 --> 00:52:52,279
Speaker 3: because they would just if a municipality would say like, oh,

1020
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:54,080
Speaker 3: I have space for a hundred people, they would just

1021
00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:57,040
Speaker 3: randomly put one hundred people in the bus and drop

1022
00:52:57,120 --> 00:52:59,920
Speaker 3: them there, and then a year later it would run

1023
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:03,799
Speaker 3: that they were never properly registered or something. But yeah,

1024
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:07,640
Speaker 3: I think like there was a night shelter not so

1025
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:10,759
Speaker 3: far away from their apple, so that was always like

1026
00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:12,960
Speaker 3: late in the evening, there would still be a few

1027
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 3: buses going to that night shelter. That was just a

1028
00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:18,920
Speaker 3: big sports hall I think, full of beds, bunk beds

1029
00:53:19,239 --> 00:53:23,239
Speaker 3: or yeah, like stretchers, and yeah, no privacy, just like

1030
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:26,680
Speaker 3: hundreds of people in one room. The lights would stay

1031
00:53:26,719 --> 00:53:29,040
Speaker 3: on all night for safety reasons. But of course that's

1032
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:30,160
Speaker 3: also very cruel too.

1033
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:30,960
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1034
00:53:31,080 --> 00:53:34,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then if people would get registered, they would

1035
00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:39,319
Speaker 3: be usually sent to like a temporary emergency shelter because

1036
00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:43,440
Speaker 3: there was such a huge shortage of regular shelters. So

1037
00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:46,880
Speaker 3: some people were living in sports halls without much privacy

1038
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:49,439
Speaker 3: for like half year or a year or some people

1039
00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:51,000
Speaker 3: are still there, to be honest.

1040
00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:56,760
Speaker 5: Wow, Yeah, that's crazy. It's atrocious, talking of atrocious. Unfortunately,

1041
00:53:56,800 --> 00:53:57,600
Speaker 5: we have to break the ad.

1042
00:53:58,680 --> 00:53:59,120
Speaker 3: We'll do that.

1043
00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:12,480
Speaker 5: Okay, we're back. Hope you do this out of it,

1044
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:17,400
Speaker 5: and we're talking about ter Apple, this, I guess migrant

1045
00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:20,640
Speaker 5: reception registration center in the Netherlands. One thing I saw

1046
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:23,480
Speaker 5: when I was sort of doing some reading about this

1047
00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:28,239
Speaker 5: recently was that babies born TOEP mothers or people in

1048
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:31,560
Speaker 5: the te Apple asylum center are seven times more likely

1049
00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:36,279
Speaker 5: to die in or around perfect That is shocking. Yeah,

1050
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:39,279
Speaker 5: so is there just no access to medical care of

1051
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:42,280
Speaker 5: people like delivering babies in this asylum center.

1052
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:48,239
Speaker 3: Well, I think the excuse of the government is that

1053
00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:52,000
Speaker 3: they didn't have proper care during the pregnancy because they

1054
00:54:52,040 --> 00:54:55,040
Speaker 3: were still traveling. Of course that is often the case,

1055
00:54:55,200 --> 00:55:02,439
Speaker 3: Like yeah, yeah, but still it's insanely high. Seven times

1056
00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:08,960
Speaker 3: more people dying, and especially when this super chaotic situation occurred, Like, yeah,

1057
00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:11,239
Speaker 3: we would have people in the field that we were

1058
00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:16,160
Speaker 3: suspecting they were getting like hypothermia or you know, some

1059
00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:20,360
Speaker 3: sort of yeah, strong physical reaction to the tough conditions

1060
00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:23,640
Speaker 3: they were facing. But they could be dropped in the

1061
00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:26,680
Speaker 3: night shelter, picked out again in the morning, being back

1062
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:29,399
Speaker 3: on the field, staying on the field for a few nights,

1063
00:55:29,560 --> 00:55:32,040
Speaker 3: again going for one night to a night shelter, being

1064
00:55:32,080 --> 00:55:35,360
Speaker 3: transferred to an emergency camp for two days, being transferred

1065
00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:38,120
Speaker 3: to another emergency camp for three days. And during this

1066
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:43,440
Speaker 3: time there is no coherence medical care, right, And of

1067
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:45,600
Speaker 3: course it would usually be a little bit better for

1068
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:48,239
Speaker 3: women and especially pregnant women, so they would try to

1069
00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:50,440
Speaker 3: put them in a more stable place and like not

1070
00:55:50,560 --> 00:55:54,799
Speaker 3: move them around that much, but trying is yeah, they

1071
00:55:54,840 --> 00:55:58,839
Speaker 3: would not always actually manage to do that, So they've

1072
00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:02,520
Speaker 3: definitely also been comple planes of yeah, of people and

1073
00:56:02,680 --> 00:56:06,799
Speaker 3: especially like pregnant pregnant women still being forced to move

1074
00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:09,560
Speaker 3: to a different camp, like really close to the data

1075
00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:13,920
Speaker 3: the baby was expected to come, and yeah, that definitely

1076
00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:16,640
Speaker 3: doesn't help. So, I mean, the care on the field

1077
00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:20,520
Speaker 3: was absolutely horrendous. I think women were usually not exposed

1078
00:56:20,560 --> 00:56:23,200
Speaker 3: to it that much because we do. Yeah, there's also

1079
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:28,120
Speaker 3: this weird sexism in migration that men can always suffer more,

1080
00:56:29,040 --> 00:56:32,280
Speaker 3: which is not always true, especially if you're not filtering

1081
00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:35,880
Speaker 3: out the really thick men either, because I was definitely

1082
00:56:35,960 --> 00:56:37,520
Speaker 3: a lot more healthy than a lot of the men

1083
00:56:37,600 --> 00:56:40,319
Speaker 3: walking around there. But yeah, at least in the case

1084
00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:43,000
Speaker 3: of like pregnant women, I think they would be moved

1085
00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:46,160
Speaker 3: out pretty quickly. But yeah, it was chaotic. And then

1086
00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:48,640
Speaker 3: also you have like, of course you have a lot

1087
00:56:48,640 --> 00:56:51,719
Speaker 3: of people who speak Arabic or Farsi or digit Yeah,

1088
00:56:51,719 --> 00:56:54,160
Speaker 3: but you also have people who speak on a link

1089
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:57,800
Speaker 3: language that is only spoken in a province of a country.

1090
00:56:58,000 --> 00:56:59,959
Speaker 3: You know, Like it's very hard to get proper trends

1091
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:02,959
Speaker 3: for like all the possible languages of people that apply

1092
00:57:03,040 --> 00:57:06,759
Speaker 3: for asylum. Yeah, but yeah, I mean I definitely think

1093
00:57:07,160 --> 00:57:12,399
Speaker 3: the conditions, especially when when there were so many people

1094
00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:15,080
Speaker 3: living in really bad emergency shelters or even on the streets,

1095
00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:18,400
Speaker 3: did not help babies at all.

1096
00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:24,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, oh, anyone, I guess no. Can you explained then,

1097
00:57:24,920 --> 00:57:28,080
Speaker 5: like this situation arose about a year ago, I think, right,

1098
00:57:28,800 --> 00:57:30,600
Speaker 5: so you are part of a group of people that

1099
00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:35,240
Speaker 5: were able to respond to help, like at least, I

1100
00:57:35,320 --> 00:57:38,400
Speaker 5: guess make it a little bit less terrible. Can you

1101
00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:41,160
Speaker 5: explain a little bit about the group, about what you're

1102
00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:41,680
Speaker 5: able to do.

1103
00:57:42,680 --> 00:57:45,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, so, I mean we just so, I was already

1104
00:57:46,480 --> 00:57:48,640
Speaker 3: a part of my grades, which is an organization that

1105
00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:53,240
Speaker 3: like I personally worked on the borders, like providing food

1106
00:57:53,360 --> 00:57:55,680
Speaker 3: and clothes and stuff like that to people on the move,

1107
00:57:56,360 --> 00:57:59,120
Speaker 3: and Migrades is more like also more an activist organizations

1108
00:57:59,200 --> 00:58:02,480
Speaker 3: or organizing protest or campaigns and stuff like that. So

1109
00:58:02,640 --> 00:58:05,080
Speaker 3: we just like went to see what was going on,

1110
00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:08,480
Speaker 3: and then we very quickly, yeah, realized that it was

1111
00:58:08,520 --> 00:58:10,760
Speaker 3: worse than it looked, but also that there were so

1112
00:58:10,880 --> 00:58:12,680
Speaker 3: many basic things that were not being done by the

1113
00:58:12,720 --> 00:58:16,160
Speaker 3: government that we were actually able to do. So yeah,

1114
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:18,360
Speaker 3: we just asked around a lot for hours and hours,

1115
00:58:18,440 --> 00:58:21,040
Speaker 3: like what do you need, what's going on? What is missing?

1116
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:24,840
Speaker 3: Like what is your primary issue at this moment, And

1117
00:58:25,000 --> 00:58:26,760
Speaker 3: one of the main things people were saying was like

1118
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:31,400
Speaker 3: the food is fucking driving them and saying like yeah, yeah,

1119
00:58:31,680 --> 00:58:34,880
Speaker 3: just the lack of flavor, but also just the lack

1120
00:58:34,960 --> 00:58:38,360
Speaker 3: of health and yeah, people would just get like diarrhea

1121
00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:40,920
Speaker 3: and stuff. And then it turned out, of course that

1122
00:58:40,960 --> 00:58:44,160
Speaker 3: there were already some people around that wanted to do stuff,

1123
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:46,400
Speaker 3: so we just had a big call and then it

1124
00:58:46,520 --> 00:58:49,000
Speaker 3: turned out that there was like this squads where they

1125
00:58:49,040 --> 00:58:50,680
Speaker 3: had a big kitchen and they were like, yeah, of

1126
00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:52,840
Speaker 3: course you can cook here. And then there was another

1127
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:56,080
Speaker 3: like former squads where they also had a big soup kitchen.

1128
00:58:56,520 --> 00:58:58,240
Speaker 3: And then I was like, okay, this is like it

1129
00:58:58,400 --> 00:59:00,680
Speaker 3: was a big like media store was a big thing

1130
00:59:00,800 --> 00:59:04,440
Speaker 3: for the Netherlands, that this was happening because we have

1131
00:59:04,600 --> 00:59:08,760
Speaker 3: this like, yeah, idea that we are perfectly organized and

1132
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:12,280
Speaker 3: blah blah blah, and that like all the bad things

1133
00:59:12,320 --> 00:59:14,840
Speaker 3: happen on the border is still like at the like

1134
00:59:15,080 --> 00:59:18,600
Speaker 3: with a very clear role of our politicians, but like somehow, yeah,

1135
00:59:18,680 --> 00:59:21,120
Speaker 3: there's not much talk about that. So it was it

1136
00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:23,920
Speaker 3: was like on the front page every single day for weeks.

1137
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:26,960
Speaker 3: So I thought, yeah, like because the people that were

1138
00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:29,320
Speaker 3: already trying to do something, they were like how can

1139
00:59:29,400 --> 00:59:32,200
Speaker 3: we get enough money for the groceries and how can

1140
00:59:32,240 --> 00:59:35,920
Speaker 3: we get volunteers? And then yeah, I was like we'll manage.

1141
00:59:38,360 --> 00:59:40,120
Speaker 3: If there's one thing I learned from the border, it's

1142
00:59:40,160 --> 00:59:42,520
Speaker 3: like if you start doing something, people will will come

1143
00:59:42,640 --> 00:59:47,160
Speaker 3: and join. Yeah, and we first said like, okay, let's

1144
00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:49,040
Speaker 3: just cook two times a week, you know, one time

1145
00:59:49,120 --> 00:59:50,960
Speaker 3: in the squad and another time in the other squad,

1146
00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:53,840
Speaker 3: and then it's like super doable, blah blah blah. And

1147
00:59:53,920 --> 00:59:58,160
Speaker 3: then basically we started and it's yeah, there was just

1148
00:59:58,240 --> 01:00:03,240
Speaker 3: no way back. So yeah, we said like Okay, let's

1149
01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:06,760
Speaker 3: hand out food twice, and then yeah, I just went

1150
01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:10,320
Speaker 3: like day and nights being on the field, and quite

1151
01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:13,040
Speaker 3: quickly we moved to food distribution every day because there

1152
01:00:13,040 --> 01:00:15,160
Speaker 3: were so many people in the area that wanted to cook.

1153
01:00:16,200 --> 01:00:18,880
Speaker 3: There was like an Islamic group that were churches that

1154
01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:22,320
Speaker 3: were like, yeah, from all over the country. People were

1155
01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:25,440
Speaker 3: coming into action, and yeah, so first we did food

1156
01:00:26,520 --> 01:00:28,480
Speaker 3: kind of because people really wanted it, but also kind

1157
01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:30,400
Speaker 3: of because we just knew how to do it because

1158
01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:32,000
Speaker 3: we had some people who had a big kitchen and

1159
01:00:32,080 --> 01:00:35,720
Speaker 3: some experience cooking in large quantities. And then quickly it

1160
01:00:35,800 --> 01:00:38,920
Speaker 3: became like colder and rainy as well, so we started

1161
01:00:38,920 --> 01:00:42,960
Speaker 3: to move towards leaving bags and ponchos and just yeah,

1162
01:00:43,240 --> 01:00:47,480
Speaker 3: big distributions. And then we also started to hand out tents,

1163
01:00:48,240 --> 01:00:50,680
Speaker 3: and then we got into a whole fight with the

1164
01:00:50,800 --> 01:00:54,000
Speaker 3: municipality and the police because they were constantly like confiscating

1165
01:00:54,080 --> 01:00:58,120
Speaker 3: the tents. Yeah, but yeah, we just started with what

1166
01:00:58,280 --> 01:01:01,080
Speaker 3: we thought would be feasible to do, I guess, and

1167
01:01:01,160 --> 01:01:05,960
Speaker 3: then it kind of escalated really quickly to yeah, us

1168
01:01:06,080 --> 01:01:08,720
Speaker 3: being kind of responsible for a lot of basic needs

1169
01:01:08,800 --> 01:01:11,440
Speaker 3: of everyone on the field, and also us monitoring, like

1170
01:01:12,040 --> 01:01:15,640
Speaker 3: informing journalists because like the government would be like, oh, no,

1171
01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:17,920
Speaker 3: there's nobody there on the field right now, and then

1172
01:01:17,960 --> 01:01:18,440
Speaker 3: we would.

1173
01:01:18,280 --> 01:01:18,520
Speaker 4: Just like.

1174
01:01:20,360 --> 01:01:26,080
Speaker 3: Five minutes, I'd be like no one. Yeah. So we

1175
01:01:26,160 --> 01:01:29,800
Speaker 3: also quite quickly like became a big part of the

1176
01:01:29,840 --> 01:01:32,920
Speaker 3: whole political debate where like the government was saying one

1177
01:01:32,960 --> 01:01:35,520
Speaker 3: thing and we were saying another, and like they were

1178
01:01:35,560 --> 01:01:37,640
Speaker 3: all all the time trying to pretend that nothing was

1179
01:01:37,680 --> 01:01:40,480
Speaker 3: wrong and everything was fine, and yeah.

1180
01:01:41,040 --> 01:01:44,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think it's it's such a common it's sadly

1181
01:01:44,320 --> 01:01:46,880
Speaker 5: a common experience, right, It's being like a the government

1182
01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:49,360
Speaker 5: is lying to you, Like you can see this with

1183
01:01:49,520 --> 01:01:52,600
Speaker 5: your eyes that you're being lied to, and be like

1184
01:01:53,080 --> 01:01:55,040
Speaker 5: they're just going to leave these people if we don't

1185
01:01:55,080 --> 01:01:58,560
Speaker 5: do certain thing, no one will. Something that we've had here,

1186
01:01:59,440 --> 01:02:02,080
Speaker 5: we see it, to say, every border in Europe more

1187
01:02:02,160 --> 01:02:06,160
Speaker 5: or less, right, Like it's just a consequence of the

1188
01:02:06,240 --> 01:02:10,680
Speaker 5: way that like neoliberal capitalism has decided to deal with migration,

1189
01:02:10,800 --> 01:02:13,000
Speaker 5: which is to make to be as cruel as possible

1190
01:02:13,480 --> 01:02:15,360
Speaker 5: and to make it as hard as possible for people.

1191
01:02:16,920 --> 01:02:20,200
Speaker 5: I wonder, like you've been organizing there, at least in

1192
01:02:20,280 --> 01:02:23,000
Speaker 5: this place for like a year. I think I want

1193
01:02:23,040 --> 01:02:25,960
Speaker 5: this to be instructive for people, because, like, we've been

1194
01:02:26,080 --> 01:02:28,680
Speaker 5: organizing here too, and we've learned a lot. Are there

1195
01:02:28,760 --> 01:02:31,000
Speaker 5: things that you've learned that you think other people could

1196
01:02:31,000 --> 01:02:34,160
Speaker 5: take from the organizing or or like and make you

1197
01:02:34,280 --> 01:02:38,760
Speaker 5: you're also a part of organizing in your area. If

1198
01:02:38,800 --> 01:02:41,200
Speaker 5: either of you have things that you've learned about specifically

1199
01:02:41,280 --> 01:02:44,440
Speaker 5: organizing to help migrants, I'd love to hear them.

1200
01:02:45,120 --> 01:02:48,760
Speaker 3: Oh, so many things. I'm probably gonna forget some of

1201
01:02:48,840 --> 01:02:51,360
Speaker 3: the things I've learned. Well. I think one thing that

1202
01:02:51,400 --> 01:02:53,280
Speaker 3: I've learned and that I've learned over and over and

1203
01:02:53,360 --> 01:02:57,560
Speaker 3: over again, is that if you start doing something, you

1204
01:02:57,640 --> 01:03:00,480
Speaker 3: will find people who will join. And I think that's

1205
01:03:00,560 --> 01:03:02,520
Speaker 3: one of the scary things when you see a gigantic

1206
01:03:02,600 --> 01:03:04,520
Speaker 3: problem and even if you know a concrete thing that

1207
01:03:04,600 --> 01:03:07,320
Speaker 3: you can do about it, it's still Yeah, there is

1208
01:03:07,400 --> 01:03:08,960
Speaker 3: a lot of things that you cannot do as a

1209
01:03:09,040 --> 01:03:12,480
Speaker 3: single human being. But I found this true in many

1210
01:03:12,560 --> 01:03:16,400
Speaker 3: countries across the world, that if you just start and

1211
01:03:16,560 --> 01:03:20,120
Speaker 3: you say that you're doing it, people will actually join.

1212
01:03:21,080 --> 01:03:25,000
Speaker 3: And I found that especially like Painful in their Apple

1213
01:03:25,120 --> 01:03:27,320
Speaker 3: that we were on this field and there had been

1214
01:03:27,440 --> 01:03:31,000
Speaker 3: so much media attention and there was nobody there, Like

1215
01:03:31,200 --> 01:03:34,080
Speaker 3: everyone was speaking about it and no one was doing anything,

1216
01:03:34,880 --> 01:03:37,720
Speaker 3: and it was kind of depressing to witness that and

1217
01:03:37,840 --> 01:03:41,520
Speaker 3: to feel that nobody it felt like nobody cared. Right,

1218
01:03:42,640 --> 01:03:44,960
Speaker 3: But as soon as we just started with this small

1219
01:03:45,040 --> 01:03:48,000
Speaker 3: thing like Okay, you can donate to groceries, you can

1220
01:03:48,080 --> 01:03:50,520
Speaker 3: come help cook, you can come help do the dishes,

1221
01:03:50,640 --> 01:03:53,640
Speaker 3: like concrete things that you can do, yeah, we were

1222
01:03:53,760 --> 01:03:55,800
Speaker 3: like I think we got like a thousand people who

1223
01:03:55,840 --> 01:03:58,439
Speaker 3: wanted to volunteer with us, which was like way too much.

1224
01:03:58,560 --> 01:04:00,320
Speaker 3: We never got back to all of them because it

1225
01:04:00,440 --> 01:04:04,920
Speaker 3: was just insane. We did not need thousand people to

1226
01:04:05,000 --> 01:04:09,480
Speaker 3: cook food for two hundred people, so like, yeah, but

1227
01:04:09,600 --> 01:04:12,520
Speaker 3: we just started, and I think, yeah, I think that

1228
01:04:12,720 --> 01:04:15,920
Speaker 3: was really helpful, or I think that can be very

1229
01:04:15,960 --> 01:04:19,280
Speaker 3: helpful if you're thinking about doing something like start small,

1230
01:04:19,320 --> 01:04:23,440
Speaker 3: but don't be afraid that it will not kind of

1231
01:04:23,680 --> 01:04:27,160
Speaker 3: grow because people will join and people will make it

1232
01:04:27,240 --> 01:04:32,040
Speaker 3: into something bigger. Also a great lesson that I learned, Well,

1233
01:04:32,080 --> 01:04:35,400
Speaker 3: it's very basic and understandable actually, but like try to

1234
01:04:35,560 --> 01:04:39,720
Speaker 3: make Yeah, my experience is usually with like a mass distribution,

1235
01:04:39,920 --> 01:04:43,000
Speaker 3: so you have hundreds of people, you have food or

1236
01:04:43,040 --> 01:04:46,320
Speaker 3: blankets or whatever something that people really need. And it's

1237
01:04:46,360 --> 01:04:50,400
Speaker 3: like so important to really plan the distribution well and

1238
01:04:50,520 --> 01:04:54,640
Speaker 3: to really inform and discuss with people, because that's one

1239
01:04:54,680 --> 01:04:57,320
Speaker 3: thing that also happened in their Apple that at some

1240
01:04:57,400 --> 01:05:00,160
Speaker 3: point people were just dumping shit on the field. They

1241
01:05:00,160 --> 01:05:03,480
Speaker 3: were actually causing fights and causing tensions between people because

1242
01:05:03,520 --> 01:05:06,000
Speaker 3: you cannot you kind of show but five sleeping bags

1243
01:05:06,040 --> 01:05:08,320
Speaker 3: when hundreds of people are in desperate need of a

1244
01:05:08,360 --> 01:05:11,800
Speaker 3: sleeping back. You know, like that's kind of inhumane. And

1245
01:05:12,800 --> 01:05:15,400
Speaker 3: I get that people have good intentions, and I get

1246
01:05:15,440 --> 01:05:18,040
Speaker 3: that it could potentially mean that five people are less cold,

1247
01:05:18,840 --> 01:05:22,880
Speaker 3: but like, yeah, some sort of shelter is a basic necessity,

1248
01:05:22,960 --> 01:05:24,600
Speaker 3: so you cannot give that to a few and not

1249
01:05:24,720 --> 01:05:29,320
Speaker 3: to others. So yeah, I think like, like the first

1250
01:05:29,360 --> 01:05:31,840
Speaker 3: time we did the distribution into Apple, I was kind

1251
01:05:31,880 --> 01:05:34,800
Speaker 3: of scared because people were spreading, like there was a

1252
01:05:34,880 --> 01:05:37,040
Speaker 3: lot of rumor about like, oh, it's so violent and

1253
01:05:37,120 --> 01:05:41,400
Speaker 3: these people are like blah blah blah, and and of

1254
01:05:41,480 --> 01:05:43,520
Speaker 3: course I kind of didn't believe it because I worked

1255
01:05:43,680 --> 01:05:45,400
Speaker 3: with migrants for a long time and I know that

1256
01:05:45,480 --> 01:05:48,760
Speaker 3: they're human being, you know, and they're not so like

1257
01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:51,880
Speaker 3: shockingly different than but I've also learned that you need

1258
01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:55,720
Speaker 3: to be They did not learn at all to trust

1259
01:05:55,840 --> 01:06:00,240
Speaker 3: anyone there because like people were lying to them. People

1260
01:06:00,280 --> 01:06:02,160
Speaker 3: were telling them they would get shelter in the night,

1261
01:06:02,280 --> 01:06:04,640
Speaker 3: but they would not. People would say that they would

1262
01:06:04,640 --> 01:06:06,160
Speaker 3: see a doctor, and they would not get to see

1263
01:06:06,200 --> 01:06:10,000
Speaker 3: a doctor. So like the I think it's really important

1264
01:06:10,040 --> 01:06:12,080
Speaker 3: if you want to tell people that you take them

1265
01:06:12,120 --> 01:06:15,360
Speaker 3: seriously and that you build up some trust. So for example,

1266
01:06:15,480 --> 01:06:18,080
Speaker 3: we we went the first time, we cooked so much food.

1267
01:06:18,080 --> 01:06:20,240
Speaker 3: We were like, it's we cannot make it run out,

1268
01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:22,560
Speaker 3: you know, like we want everyone to get as much

1269
01:06:22,640 --> 01:06:25,920
Speaker 3: as they want and more. Yea, even if we have

1270
01:06:26,040 --> 01:06:28,840
Speaker 3: to trash, because like these people for once have to

1271
01:06:28,880 --> 01:06:32,320
Speaker 3: get the feeling that it's like that we're there for everyone.

1272
01:06:33,000 --> 01:06:35,400
Speaker 3: So like if you make if you do a mass distribution,

1273
01:06:35,560 --> 01:06:37,680
Speaker 3: you usually make light lines and people have to like

1274
01:06:37,800 --> 01:06:40,720
Speaker 3: wait for their turn. But we spent hours just telling

1275
01:06:40,760 --> 01:06:43,000
Speaker 3: people like, hey, we're going to give out food. There's

1276
01:06:43,240 --> 01:06:46,400
Speaker 3: so much food, you know, don't worry like it's to

1277
01:06:47,280 --> 01:06:49,280
Speaker 3: and then also actually live up to that of course,

1278
01:06:50,440 --> 01:06:53,640
Speaker 3: make sure that there is enough food. Yeah, and like

1279
01:06:54,040 --> 01:06:56,600
Speaker 3: try to make it like fun. And this is like

1280
01:06:56,680 --> 01:06:59,040
Speaker 3: it's kind of awkward because you like, I kind of

1281
01:06:59,080 --> 01:07:01,560
Speaker 3: feel awkward of putting people in a line and telling

1282
01:07:01,600 --> 01:07:04,240
Speaker 3: them to wait, and you know, like that because you're

1283
01:07:04,320 --> 01:07:07,760
Speaker 3: kind of being bossing them around. But yeah, if it

1284
01:07:07,840 --> 01:07:11,440
Speaker 3: goes well once and everyone just feels like, hey, here

1285
01:07:11,520 --> 01:07:13,400
Speaker 3: I don't have to fight to get to the front,

1286
01:07:13,520 --> 01:07:15,680
Speaker 3: and here I can just chill out and we can

1287
01:07:15,760 --> 01:07:17,480
Speaker 3: make a chat with each other and we can just

1288
01:07:18,040 --> 01:07:20,560
Speaker 3: you know, smile and like wish each other a good day,

1289
01:07:21,280 --> 01:07:23,560
Speaker 3: then Yeah, I think it's also really important to try

1290
01:07:23,600 --> 01:07:26,440
Speaker 3: to make distributions kind of fun or at least as

1291
01:07:26,560 --> 01:07:30,320
Speaker 3: chill as possible, and to like try to not make

1292
01:07:30,400 --> 01:07:33,880
Speaker 3: it another survival of the fittest moment, because that is

1293
01:07:33,960 --> 01:07:37,040
Speaker 3: exactly what the state is pushing people into, and that

1294
01:07:37,160 --> 01:07:38,840
Speaker 3: is what I don't want people to get into.

1295
01:07:39,560 --> 01:07:42,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think that's very true. Like we've definitely learned

1296
01:07:42,200 --> 01:07:46,120
Speaker 5: a lot of those similar things. I can't like put

1297
01:07:46,200 --> 01:07:48,840
Speaker 5: enough emphasis on planning before you just show up and

1298
01:07:48,880 --> 01:07:52,640
Speaker 5: do a distribution, like we had so many fucking chaotic

1299
01:07:53,480 --> 01:07:55,640
Speaker 5: it's not on. Yeah, people are fighting hungry and they've

1300
01:07:55,680 --> 01:07:58,800
Speaker 5: had to fight to get fed for the duration of

1301
01:07:58,840 --> 01:08:01,360
Speaker 5: the journey, be the days, months, of years and like

1302
01:08:02,120 --> 01:08:05,880
Speaker 5: it's no, they're doing what like they understand to be

1303
01:08:05,920 --> 01:08:06,720
Speaker 5: the necessary thing.

1304
01:08:08,040 --> 01:08:11,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, and there's it's absolutely not like humane to just

1305
01:08:12,680 --> 01:08:16,040
Speaker 3: recreate that that mode, you know, like it's amazing to

1306
01:08:16,200 --> 01:08:19,160
Speaker 3: be able to create a nice atmosphere where people can

1307
01:08:19,240 --> 01:08:23,160
Speaker 3: relax and feel safe and feel finally treated like equally

1308
01:08:23,320 --> 01:08:26,720
Speaker 3: and somehow like fairly again, even if it's just for

1309
01:08:27,040 --> 01:08:30,800
Speaker 3: a very simple meal. But it's yeah, I mean you

1310
01:08:31,240 --> 01:08:33,519
Speaker 3: can already get moody if someone jumps in front of

1311
01:08:33,600 --> 01:08:37,519
Speaker 3: you at the supermarket, you know, like I can get

1312
01:08:37,600 --> 01:08:39,800
Speaker 3: moody with that. But it's like that, but then like

1313
01:08:40,040 --> 01:08:42,960
Speaker 3: way more extreme and for actual, yeah, things that you

1314
01:08:43,080 --> 01:08:46,720
Speaker 3: need to survive all the time, Like it's it's yeah,

1315
01:08:46,760 --> 01:08:49,760
Speaker 3: it's hard to imagine, I guess if you've never really

1316
01:08:49,840 --> 01:08:52,840
Speaker 3: been in a survival situation. But yeah, it can be

1317
01:08:52,920 --> 01:08:56,080
Speaker 3: so much fun. Also, maybe that's another good one, because

1318
01:08:56,280 --> 01:09:00,560
Speaker 3: I remember people were feeling sorry for me when I

1319
01:09:00,720 --> 01:09:03,800
Speaker 3: was working there, like, oh my god, this must be

1320
01:09:03,920 --> 01:09:06,639
Speaker 3: so hard, and I mean it was fucking hard sometimes,

1321
01:09:06,720 --> 01:09:09,840
Speaker 3: like I have literally been standing there like pushing away

1322
01:09:09,960 --> 01:09:12,760
Speaker 3: tears and being like no, I'm fine, but I'm not

1323
01:09:12,960 --> 01:09:15,720
Speaker 3: fine at all. But also it's fun, like you're just

1324
01:09:15,840 --> 01:09:19,040
Speaker 3: joking around and you're making each other happy, and you

1325
01:09:19,120 --> 01:09:21,599
Speaker 3: feel like you're part of something bigger and you feel

1326
01:09:22,280 --> 01:09:24,320
Speaker 3: I think it's very empowering to be like the state

1327
01:09:24,439 --> 01:09:26,479
Speaker 3: is fucking it up and we can actually do it better.

1328
01:09:27,800 --> 01:09:32,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, very much. So, Like I think it's very like affirming, right,

1329
01:09:32,200 --> 01:09:37,320
Speaker 5: like to be like we don't need like anyone telling

1330
01:09:37,400 --> 01:09:41,040
Speaker 5: us what to do, We don't need anyone trying to

1331
01:09:41,080 --> 01:09:43,120
Speaker 5: control us, like we can we can take care of

1332
01:09:43,200 --> 01:09:48,000
Speaker 5: these people ourselves without creating mechanisms of control. And like

1333
01:09:48,200 --> 01:09:50,600
Speaker 5: I think for me, that was like one of the

1334
01:09:50,640 --> 01:09:53,000
Speaker 5: reasons I really enjoy doing it is that that like

1335
01:09:53,120 --> 01:09:55,640
Speaker 5: me and my friends can care for these people. And

1336
01:09:55,800 --> 01:09:58,280
Speaker 5: it's like I don't know from my perspective, like I've

1337
01:09:58,320 --> 01:10:00,960
Speaker 5: had conversations with hundreds of people from all around the world.

1338
01:10:01,160 --> 01:10:03,840
Speaker 5: Like we would do things like play music while people

1339
01:10:03,920 --> 01:10:06,080
Speaker 5: waited for food. If we had a friend who was

1340
01:10:06,479 --> 01:10:09,040
Speaker 5: able to play music, you know, we had enough enough people.

1341
01:10:09,720 --> 01:10:15,559
Speaker 5: We'd always recruit people from among the migrants to help

1342
01:10:15,680 --> 01:10:17,679
Speaker 5: us with food distribution, which turned out to be great

1343
01:10:17,680 --> 01:10:21,200
Speaker 5: because like they taught us different words in different languages

1344
01:10:21,400 --> 01:10:24,120
Speaker 5: and like, you know, I can say hot source in

1345
01:10:24,200 --> 01:10:29,839
Speaker 5: like twenty five languages now and like it was important

1346
01:10:29,880 --> 01:10:33,439
Speaker 5: parts yeah yeah right there real to death. But yeah,

1347
01:10:33,439 --> 01:10:35,599
Speaker 5: it was very and then like I remember one night

1348
01:10:36,600 --> 01:10:39,000
Speaker 5: it was like in Septemme it was so cold, one

1349
01:10:39,040 --> 01:10:40,800
Speaker 5: of the cold nights. It was in September and it

1350
01:10:40,880 --> 01:10:43,760
Speaker 5: was just about freezing, and like there were very few

1351
01:10:43,840 --> 01:10:46,320
Speaker 5: of us back then, and we my friend had some

1352
01:10:46,520 --> 01:10:50,759
Speaker 5: guitars and like drums and we like parked the band

1353
01:10:50,880 --> 01:10:53,280
Speaker 5: to block the wind and everyone sat around and played

1354
01:10:53,280 --> 01:10:55,280
Speaker 5: the guitar and they played their different songs and like

1355
01:10:56,120 --> 01:10:58,400
Speaker 5: we had all these really happy moments. Yeah it's not

1356
01:10:58,520 --> 01:11:00,960
Speaker 5: like we said around growing all the time, like it said.

1357
01:11:01,120 --> 01:11:04,240
Speaker 3: No, not at all, very empowering, I think, No, I

1358
01:11:04,280 --> 01:11:06,840
Speaker 3: think it's important what you just said that. Also, a

1359
01:11:06,880 --> 01:11:10,120
Speaker 3: lot of work can be done by people themselves. So

1360
01:11:11,120 --> 01:11:13,160
Speaker 3: I remember a volunteer being like I want to give

1361
01:11:13,160 --> 01:11:15,760
Speaker 3: out the food, whereas these guys were giving out the

1362
01:11:15,800 --> 01:11:17,600
Speaker 3: food every day and they had this whole routine and

1363
01:11:17,680 --> 01:11:20,519
Speaker 3: they were much faster, and you know, like and also

1364
01:11:20,600 --> 01:11:23,799
Speaker 3: it's not about you feeling good about.

1365
01:11:23,640 --> 01:11:26,200
Speaker 5: You know, like yeah, yeah, not that to help you.

1366
01:11:26,560 --> 01:11:30,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, like listen to people like really spend

1367
01:11:30,400 --> 01:11:32,439
Speaker 3: a lot of time understanding what people need and what

1368
01:11:32,600 --> 01:11:35,920
Speaker 3: they want and because it's really often not what you expect,

1369
01:11:36,800 --> 01:11:40,800
Speaker 3: and yeah, make sure that people can also do stuff themselves.

1370
01:11:41,160 --> 01:11:45,519
Speaker 3: And also like, for example, if we would have tents

1371
01:11:45,560 --> 01:11:48,120
Speaker 3: but not for everyone, or blankets but not for everyone,

1372
01:11:48,640 --> 01:11:51,920
Speaker 3: instead of making like a very rigid decision of like

1373
01:11:52,040 --> 01:11:54,880
Speaker 3: you get it and you don't, it's so useful to

1374
01:11:55,000 --> 01:11:57,479
Speaker 3: just talk to people and to just be like, hey, sorry,

1375
01:11:57,520 --> 01:12:00,920
Speaker 3: this is a situation or yeah. Like there were a

1376
01:12:00,960 --> 01:12:04,320
Speaker 3: lot of fights because families were always allowed to go first,

1377
01:12:04,360 --> 01:12:07,960
Speaker 3: but it was not really clearly communicated by the government's

1378
01:12:08,080 --> 01:12:10,680
Speaker 3: like can facility and stuff. But when we were just

1379
01:12:11,479 --> 01:12:13,280
Speaker 3: discussing with them, like hey, how can we make the

1380
01:12:13,320 --> 01:12:17,160
Speaker 3: distribution more chill, they were like, well, can women and

1381
01:12:17,240 --> 01:12:19,880
Speaker 3: children and elderly people just go first? And I was

1382
01:12:19,960 --> 01:12:24,679
Speaker 3: like yeah, or you know, I mean, it's not really

1383
01:12:24,880 --> 01:12:28,200
Speaker 3: any of my business, like yeah, And then if everyone

1384
01:12:28,360 --> 01:12:31,520
Speaker 3: just understands it and it's kind of clear and understandable

1385
01:12:31,560 --> 01:12:35,280
Speaker 3: and explained, it's like so much more chill. Whereas if

1386
01:12:35,320 --> 01:12:38,559
Speaker 3: you're just shouting at people and assuming that they will

1387
01:12:38,600 --> 01:12:41,360
Speaker 3: not understand or assume that they will be selfish, you

1388
01:12:41,439 --> 01:12:44,720
Speaker 3: are also forcing people into that role. Yes, and I

1389
01:12:44,760 --> 01:12:47,240
Speaker 3: think it's really beautiful if you can snap out of that,

1390
01:12:47,439 --> 01:12:50,240
Speaker 3: and you could, yeah, you can just be somewhat equal,

1391
01:12:50,360 --> 01:12:55,000
Speaker 3: even though like legally or in a completely different situations.

1392
01:12:55,880 --> 01:12:56,519
Speaker 5: Yeah, totally.

1393
01:12:57,280 --> 01:13:00,280
Speaker 6: So what you're telling me is that if you talk

1394
01:13:00,400 --> 01:13:04,200
Speaker 6: to people and treat them as human beings, that has

1395
01:13:04,320 --> 01:13:06,800
Speaker 6: positive results for bad situations.

1396
01:13:09,720 --> 01:13:09,880
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1397
01:13:11,439 --> 01:13:14,160
Speaker 6: This is a hot take, a very hot take.

1398
01:13:14,400 --> 01:13:16,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, breaking news.

1399
01:13:19,040 --> 01:13:22,120
Speaker 6: I don't have nearly the amount of field experience that

1400
01:13:22,320 --> 01:13:26,760
Speaker 6: Rose has. So but another thing that I think is

1401
01:13:26,840 --> 01:13:31,840
Speaker 6: really important to highlight is that it's not just it's

1402
01:13:31,920 --> 01:13:35,880
Speaker 6: not just the necessities I was part of. I did

1403
01:13:35,960 --> 01:13:38,960
Speaker 6: first date at the No Border camp near to the

1404
01:13:39,040 --> 01:13:43,360
Speaker 6: Apple last summer, and some of the activists there that

1405
01:13:44,760 --> 01:13:47,600
Speaker 6: a really admirable job day. I think they did not

1406
01:13:47,720 --> 01:13:50,080
Speaker 6: go to their apple because it was too politically hot

1407
01:13:50,120 --> 01:13:53,200
Speaker 6: at the time, so they went to different centers where

1408
01:13:53,320 --> 01:13:56,960
Speaker 6: migrants were living, and they handed out toys and they

1409
01:13:57,080 --> 01:13:58,440
Speaker 6: hired a bouncy.

1410
01:13:58,160 --> 01:13:59,960
Speaker 2: Castle for the kids to play.

1411
01:14:02,000 --> 01:14:06,000
Speaker 6: It was really it was really basic in the sense

1412
01:14:06,080 --> 01:14:10,600
Speaker 6: that it didn't need like massive fund massive funds or

1413
01:14:11,479 --> 01:14:14,840
Speaker 6: incredible abouance of organization that you need bureaucracies to handle.

1414
01:14:15,240 --> 01:14:18,599
Speaker 6: It was just people thinking of ways, like hey, how

1415
01:14:18,680 --> 01:14:22,920
Speaker 6: can we make these people happier or more comfortable or

1416
01:14:23,840 --> 01:14:26,920
Speaker 6: at least forget for like a few hours about like

1417
01:14:28,160 --> 01:14:33,720
Speaker 6: this situation therein because our media likes to, you know,

1418
01:14:34,000 --> 01:14:37,800
Speaker 6: dive onto every time there's a fight in a migrant center, right,

1419
01:14:38,200 --> 01:14:41,720
Speaker 6: but it's rarely discussed that if you put a lot

1420
01:14:41,800 --> 01:14:45,240
Speaker 6: of people in a stressful situation on top of each other,

1421
01:14:45,960 --> 01:14:49,040
Speaker 6: people will there will be tensions and there will be fights.

1422
01:14:49,560 --> 01:14:54,680
Speaker 5: Which is I think we don't cover that enough, right, No, And.

1423
01:14:54,800 --> 01:14:57,760
Speaker 3: Also nobody really cares because I think it's it's one

1424
01:14:57,800 --> 01:15:00,519
Speaker 3: of the most beautiful things for me as well. I said,

1425
01:15:01,040 --> 01:15:04,479
Speaker 3: the solidarity that people show each other, and like, yeah,

1426
01:15:04,560 --> 01:15:06,559
Speaker 3: you don't even see it half the time, but people

1427
01:15:06,640 --> 01:15:10,839
Speaker 3: give each other like their waterproof jackets or I remember

1428
01:15:10,920 --> 01:15:13,200
Speaker 3: one night it was a horrible night in Fair Apple

1429
01:15:13,320 --> 01:15:15,680
Speaker 3: and we didn't expect people to be there, and all

1430
01:15:15,680 --> 01:15:17,200
Speaker 3: of a sudden there were hundreds of people and they

1431
01:15:17,240 --> 01:15:20,320
Speaker 3: hadn't had food since the morning. And then people in

1432
01:15:20,439 --> 01:15:22,680
Speaker 3: the camp they all get microwave meals and they kind

1433
01:15:22,680 --> 01:15:25,800
Speaker 3: of hate them, but like they all had kind of

1434
01:15:25,840 --> 01:15:28,240
Speaker 3: a stash, so they all like started to eat up

1435
01:15:28,280 --> 01:15:30,920
Speaker 3: microwave meals and bring them outside, and they were actually

1436
01:15:31,040 --> 01:15:34,679
Speaker 3: way more able to provide food on such a short

1437
01:15:35,240 --> 01:15:39,599
Speaker 3: notice than we were. And it was not the best food,

1438
01:15:39,680 --> 01:15:42,000
Speaker 3: but like everyone had food and they were even sharing

1439
01:15:42,000 --> 01:15:43,800
Speaker 3: it with us, and we were all just like so

1440
01:15:43,960 --> 01:15:46,479
Speaker 3: glad to be eating after ten hours in the rain

1441
01:15:46,560 --> 01:15:49,960
Speaker 3: and in the cold. And yeah, people, Yeah, I don't know,

1442
01:15:50,479 --> 01:15:53,400
Speaker 3: carrying luggage for someone who has Like it's all the

1443
01:15:53,520 --> 01:15:56,240
Speaker 3: time you see people standing up for each other, and

1444
01:15:56,320 --> 01:16:00,479
Speaker 3: I think that is honestly an amazing thing, and maybe

1445
01:16:01,600 --> 01:16:04,639
Speaker 3: more tough situations bring that out somehow more as well,

1446
01:16:04,920 --> 01:16:08,600
Speaker 3: Like it's easy for most people in western societies to

1447
01:16:08,680 --> 01:16:13,479
Speaker 3: be very individualists and live very isolated and yeah, non

1448
01:16:13,720 --> 01:16:16,200
Speaker 3: fulfilling lives, but then if you are in this kind

1449
01:16:16,240 --> 01:16:18,639
Speaker 3: of situation, in some ways, it can also bring out

1450
01:16:18,640 --> 01:16:19,439
Speaker 3: the best in people.

1451
01:16:20,120 --> 01:16:22,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think so, Like we were just talking about

1452
01:16:22,240 --> 01:16:25,519
Speaker 5: before we started, how like yesterday I was out helping

1453
01:16:25,600 --> 01:16:29,200
Speaker 5: down by the border and around the two Mauritanian guys

1454
01:16:29,240 --> 01:16:31,519
Speaker 5: who had carried a Chinese man with a leg injury

1455
01:16:31,600 --> 01:16:35,599
Speaker 5: for two days and they couldn't even share the same language,

1456
01:16:35,680 --> 01:16:38,280
Speaker 5: and like that walk is now that hike is no joke,

1457
01:16:38,400 --> 01:16:40,519
Speaker 5: Like I do that with a big backpack full of water.

1458
01:16:41,280 --> 01:16:43,720
Speaker 5: That's hard, and I do a lot of hiking, but

1459
01:16:44,520 --> 01:16:48,240
Speaker 5: I wasn't carrying another human. You know, it can actually

1460
01:16:48,800 --> 01:17:03,439
Speaker 5: really bring out some incredible acts of kindness. And I wondered, guys,

1461
01:17:03,640 --> 01:17:06,479
Speaker 5: we're running close to the end of a signed time.

1462
01:17:07,240 --> 01:17:09,479
Speaker 5: If people want to help, either they say they're in

1463
01:17:09,479 --> 01:17:11,519
Speaker 5: the Netherlands and they want to come and help, or

1464
01:17:12,640 --> 01:17:14,960
Speaker 5: if they want to help in a financial way, or

1465
01:17:15,120 --> 01:17:17,160
Speaker 5: maybe they can do some remote so help. Maybe they

1466
01:17:17,200 --> 01:17:21,679
Speaker 5: can respond to the thousand volunteers for email for you, Yeah,

1467
01:17:22,720 --> 01:17:23,600
Speaker 5: how can they do that?

1468
01:17:25,320 --> 01:17:28,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, donations are always welcome. We're currently not working in

1469
01:17:28,600 --> 01:17:31,800
Speaker 3: their apple, but it doesn't look good. So usually the

1470
01:17:32,160 --> 01:17:37,960
Speaker 3: influx is highest in summer and early autumn. And we

1471
01:17:38,080 --> 01:17:41,000
Speaker 3: have like a far right majority in parliament since a

1472
01:17:41,080 --> 01:17:47,720
Speaker 3: few months, so we're wouldn't be surprised if we have

1473
01:17:47,840 --> 01:17:50,479
Speaker 3: people out on the streets again. Also, I think there's

1474
01:17:50,520 --> 01:17:53,960
Speaker 3: a very big chance that the shelters for undocumented people

1475
01:17:54,120 --> 01:17:57,360
Speaker 3: might close, so we would have a lot of people

1476
01:17:57,400 --> 01:17:59,040
Speaker 3: on the streets then, So we need a lot of

1477
01:17:59,080 --> 01:18:03,720
Speaker 3: solidarity and a lot of things, like a lot Yeah,

1478
01:18:04,000 --> 01:18:06,360
Speaker 3: so like, yeah, financial support is always welcome, but I

1479
01:18:06,400 --> 01:18:08,400
Speaker 3: think it's also really important that people think about what

1480
01:18:08,960 --> 01:18:10,920
Speaker 3: they can do in their lives and that it is

1481
01:18:11,000 --> 01:18:13,799
Speaker 3: also something that they can manage inside of their lives.

1482
01:18:14,280 --> 01:18:18,840
Speaker 3: So like not everyone can drop everything and yeah, move

1483
01:18:18,960 --> 01:18:20,960
Speaker 3: to the other side of the country or whatever, but

1484
01:18:21,640 --> 01:18:24,120
Speaker 3: if you can host one person, or if you can

1485
01:18:25,479 --> 01:18:28,960
Speaker 3: support someone else who's hosting, like there are ways. I

1486
01:18:29,000 --> 01:18:31,320
Speaker 3: think migrats it does not have like all the options

1487
01:18:31,360 --> 01:18:34,200
Speaker 3: to volunteer, but like we really hope that there will

1488
01:18:34,240 --> 01:18:37,400
Speaker 3: be a lot of networks of solidarity that yeah, we

1489
01:18:37,600 --> 01:18:41,400
Speaker 3: just need them across the country, I think, and I

1490
01:18:41,600 --> 01:18:43,920
Speaker 3: do think there's like a serious risk of like more

1491
01:18:44,000 --> 01:18:48,760
Speaker 3: criminalization of aid workers. We were also criminalized for handing

1492
01:18:48,800 --> 01:18:51,320
Speaker 3: out tents. I got a letter that said that I

1493
01:18:51,439 --> 01:18:54,120
Speaker 3: risk like three months of imprisonment for handing out tents.

1494
01:18:54,640 --> 01:18:59,520
Speaker 3: Oh wow, Yeah, but that's democracy.

1495
01:19:01,680 --> 01:19:05,679
Speaker 5: Yeah, we need that European social democracy model that everyone's

1496
01:19:05,720 --> 01:19:06,160
Speaker 5: talking about.

1497
01:19:06,240 --> 01:19:08,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, we are just doing great. Yeah yeah, And so,

1498
01:19:09,080 --> 01:19:12,080
Speaker 3: like tents were constantly confiscated and stuff, and it was

1499
01:19:12,160 --> 01:19:15,360
Speaker 3: intense there because people had to be there to get sheltered,

1500
01:19:15,439 --> 01:19:18,040
Speaker 3: which they legally were entitled to. But it is a

1501
01:19:18,120 --> 01:19:21,760
Speaker 3: bigger trend, so regular homeless people will also see their

1502
01:19:21,800 --> 01:19:24,760
Speaker 3: tents confiscated or smashed without them getting an offer to

1503
01:19:24,800 --> 01:19:27,680
Speaker 3: get into a shelter. Right. So, I think the criminalization

1504
01:19:28,080 --> 01:19:31,000
Speaker 3: in our case was a bit extreme because most of

1505
01:19:31,080 --> 01:19:33,479
Speaker 3: the criminalization had to do with at least a very

1506
01:19:33,600 --> 01:19:38,160
Speaker 3: vague relationship with like smuggling or people crossing borders, whereas

1507
01:19:38,200 --> 01:19:42,479
Speaker 3: like handing out senses like the most humanitarian, basic thing

1508
01:19:42,600 --> 01:19:45,679
Speaker 3: that you can possibly do, and somehow they still thought

1509
01:19:45,720 --> 01:19:48,320
Speaker 3: it was a good idea to criminalize that. Yeah, I

1510
01:19:48,400 --> 01:19:50,880
Speaker 3: think we need to like prepare for the fact that

1511
01:19:51,760 --> 01:19:55,000
Speaker 3: our borders and our migration policies are going to get

1512
01:19:55,080 --> 01:19:57,439
Speaker 3: more cruel and that the only thing that we can

1513
01:19:57,520 --> 01:20:01,080
Speaker 3: do to help is like really strong works of solidarity

1514
01:20:01,200 --> 01:20:05,200
Speaker 3: and resistance, and that we might sometimes risk prison time,

1515
01:20:06,120 --> 01:20:08,439
Speaker 3: but that we still probably need to do it because

1516
01:20:08,439 --> 01:20:13,240
Speaker 3: the alternative is that we're just letting people be destroyed

1517
01:20:13,280 --> 01:20:13,880
Speaker 3: in the system.

1518
01:20:14,640 --> 01:20:17,160
Speaker 5: I think that's very very good, Mike, Do you have

1519
01:20:17,200 --> 01:20:21,639
Speaker 5: anything adworking people for you find more ways to support,

1520
01:20:21,760 --> 01:20:22,960
Speaker 5: ways to show solidarity.

1521
01:20:23,720 --> 01:20:26,400
Speaker 6: I think what I plugged last time, like that Polish

1522
01:20:26,479 --> 01:20:30,280
Speaker 6: Front text campaign, find your local activist group.

1523
01:20:30,800 --> 01:20:36,720
Speaker 3: Or started because we exactly exactly. Even if you're just

1524
01:20:36,800 --> 01:20:37,840
Speaker 3: one person, that's like.

1525
01:20:39,760 --> 01:20:42,040
Speaker 6: Yeah, like through social media, you can find a lot

1526
01:20:42,080 --> 01:20:45,920
Speaker 6: of people. Find your local squad, they will be they

1527
01:20:45,960 --> 01:20:46,800
Speaker 6: will want to help.

1528
01:20:47,360 --> 01:20:47,559
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1529
01:20:48,160 --> 01:20:51,479
Speaker 3: Oh and maybe what you just said, like there's every

1530
01:20:51,560 --> 01:20:54,080
Speaker 3: year no border camp somewhere in another one, so that's

1531
01:20:54,080 --> 01:20:55,400
Speaker 3: also a good place to start.

1532
01:20:55,840 --> 01:21:02,400
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, yes, you can find them on Instagram. I

1533
01:21:02,640 --> 01:21:05,080
Speaker 6: think I'm not on Instagram. I don't know.

1534
01:21:06,240 --> 01:21:06,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's there.

1535
01:21:07,200 --> 01:21:11,960
Speaker 6: That's that. That's definitely an option. Atmosphere is great. There,

1536
01:21:12,680 --> 01:21:15,439
Speaker 6: I don't I'm not on the socials, so you can't

1537
01:21:15,520 --> 01:21:20,559
Speaker 6: find me if you want to. I'm sorry. And well

1538
01:21:20,600 --> 01:21:23,759
Speaker 6: I'm also like Rosa you said, I do some stuff

1539
01:21:23,800 --> 01:21:26,639
Speaker 6: with like a first aid collective. So if you guys

1540
01:21:26,720 --> 01:21:30,280
Speaker 6: are if you are doing something and you you're like, hey,

1541
01:21:30,640 --> 01:21:35,439
Speaker 6: we could use some people with some degree of medical training,

1542
01:21:36,120 --> 01:21:38,360
Speaker 6: reach out to me. You have my contacts, because that

1543
01:21:38,479 --> 01:21:40,599
Speaker 6: is the kind of thing I will most definitely get

1544
01:21:42,439 --> 01:21:44,120
Speaker 6: well excited is the wrong words.

1545
01:21:46,400 --> 01:21:49,120
Speaker 3: If she hits evanitser Apple, we could really use some

1546
01:21:49,360 --> 01:21:51,360
Speaker 3: first aid as well, then yeah.

1547
01:21:51,479 --> 01:21:56,680
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, reach out. I will I will gladly come

1548
01:21:56,720 --> 01:22:00,559
Speaker 6: over there and with all the medical supplies that are

1549
01:22:00,640 --> 01:22:01,720
Speaker 6: scuttered around my room.

1550
01:22:04,120 --> 01:22:06,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's I think that's a good illustration though, right

1551
01:22:06,280 --> 01:22:10,240
Speaker 5: to finish up, Like, everybody has a skill that we

1552
01:22:10,360 --> 01:22:12,600
Speaker 5: can use, Like you might not think you do, but

1553
01:22:12,800 --> 01:22:17,640
Speaker 5: you probably do. Like someone knitted hats for us, you know,

1554
01:22:17,720 --> 01:22:19,760
Speaker 5: if you're a person who likes to knit. And we

1555
01:22:19,920 --> 01:22:22,719
Speaker 5: had people who didn't think they had much to offer

1556
01:22:22,800 --> 01:22:25,280
Speaker 5: and then came and just made sandwiches. And they created

1557
01:22:25,320 --> 01:22:28,280
Speaker 5: a method for making sandwiches in bulk that like allowed

1558
01:22:28,360 --> 01:22:32,960
Speaker 5: us to make more sandwiches more quickly. Everybody has even

1559
01:22:33,120 --> 01:22:35,519
Speaker 5: if you want to be the person who washes the blankets,

1560
01:22:35,560 --> 01:22:38,880
Speaker 5: and that's a massive task. It means somebody's warm at night.

1561
01:22:39,840 --> 01:22:44,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's an insane test. And also like maybe the

1562
01:22:44,439 --> 01:22:48,120
Speaker 3: the more intimidating fast, Like I think it could be

1563
01:22:48,160 --> 01:22:50,760
Speaker 3: intimidating to be like, oh, we're going to I don't know,

1564
01:22:50,920 --> 01:22:54,800
Speaker 3: hundreds of men and everyone says they're scary, but indeed

1565
01:22:54,840 --> 01:22:57,240
Speaker 3: there's also so much things happening in the background, like

1566
01:22:57,439 --> 01:23:02,439
Speaker 3: collecting blankets, getting clothes, getting groceries, Like there's so so

1567
01:23:02,560 --> 01:23:04,640
Speaker 3: many layers to it. And it can also be that

1568
01:23:04,720 --> 01:23:07,679
Speaker 3: you collect end blankets, but like hundreds of people collect

1569
01:23:07,760 --> 01:23:11,439
Speaker 3: end blankets, right. So it's also you're always part of

1570
01:23:11,520 --> 01:23:14,880
Speaker 3: something bigger and there's always a there's always I think

1571
01:23:14,920 --> 01:23:18,520
Speaker 3: that it's always very good to think that, Like, if

1572
01:23:18,560 --> 01:23:20,600
Speaker 3: you're faced with a big problem, it's very hard to

1573
01:23:21,080 --> 01:23:23,720
Speaker 3: get to the solution of it, but at the same time,

1574
01:23:23,760 --> 01:23:26,479
Speaker 3: it's very easy to do a tiny thing about it.

1575
01:23:27,200 --> 01:23:29,360
Speaker 3: And I think it's much more useful to do that

1576
01:23:29,520 --> 01:23:32,120
Speaker 3: tiny thing than to be like, oh, I can never

1577
01:23:32,240 --> 01:23:34,720
Speaker 3: get to the real solution of this problem, And in

1578
01:23:34,760 --> 01:23:36,599
Speaker 3: the end you will kind of get to it by

1579
01:23:36,720 --> 01:23:39,479
Speaker 3: doing that with more and more people and actually building

1580
01:23:39,560 --> 01:23:42,520
Speaker 3: up collective power and resistance.

1581
01:23:43,240 --> 01:23:48,360
Speaker 6: Yeah, about the collecting thing, like, yeah, for example, I

1582
01:23:48,400 --> 01:23:50,720
Speaker 6: know my parents still have like old toys from when

1583
01:23:50,800 --> 01:23:53,000
Speaker 6: we and my brother were younger. If you're in an

1584
01:23:53,000 --> 01:23:55,760
Speaker 6: area with a refugee center, you could always just give

1585
01:23:55,880 --> 01:23:58,360
Speaker 6: those toys to the people there. If you have old

1586
01:23:58,360 --> 01:24:01,000
Speaker 6: old children's books or something, people can use that to

1587
01:24:01,760 --> 01:24:05,280
Speaker 6: get a grasp on the Gibberish that is the Dutch language.

1588
01:24:06,520 --> 01:24:11,280
Speaker 6: These little things also matter a lot, and it's something

1589
01:24:11,600 --> 01:24:13,840
Speaker 6: very impactful that you can do that doesn't take much

1590
01:24:13,920 --> 01:24:14,799
Speaker 6: of your own effort.

1591
01:24:16,040 --> 01:24:18,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's very low threshold, right, and it makes a

1592
01:24:19,000 --> 01:24:21,439
Speaker 5: huge difference. It makes someone feel cared for and welcome.

1593
01:24:22,320 --> 01:24:24,080
Speaker 5: That can make all the difference in the world. And

1594
01:24:24,560 --> 01:24:27,519
Speaker 5: what is Can you just spell out the migreat website

1595
01:24:27,560 --> 01:24:27,800
Speaker 5: for us?

1596
01:24:28,840 --> 01:24:32,240
Speaker 3: Uh huh m I G R E A T dot.

1597
01:24:32,240 --> 01:24:33,200
Speaker 2: Org dot org.

1598
01:24:33,360 --> 01:24:36,639
Speaker 3: Perfect, It's like, migration is great, migrat migreat.

1599
01:24:36,680 --> 01:24:40,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, all right, thank you so much, both of you.

1600
01:24:42,000 --> 01:24:43,439
Speaker 3: Thanks, thank you for having us.

1601
01:24:58,600 --> 01:25:00,759
Speaker 4: Welcome to what could happen here? The show about things

1602
01:25:00,840 --> 01:25:03,880
Speaker 4: falling apart, and often what's falling apart is kind of

1603
01:25:03,960 --> 01:25:07,000
Speaker 4: our general agreed upon sense of what reality is, and

1604
01:25:07,120 --> 01:25:09,040
Speaker 4: that's kind of what we're talking about here.

1605
01:25:09,160 --> 01:25:09,519
Speaker 2: Today.

1606
01:25:09,920 --> 01:25:12,960
Speaker 4: We're going to talk about the latest batch of new

1607
01:25:13,200 --> 01:25:18,479
Speaker 4: transgender conspiracy theories. And to join me in this exciting

1608
01:25:18,600 --> 01:25:20,000
Speaker 4: journey is Mia Wong.

1609
01:25:20,160 --> 01:25:23,680
Speaker 2: Hello, Miya. You know, why is it that whatever we're

1610
01:25:23,720 --> 01:25:27,719
Speaker 2: covering transgender conspiracy, it's not like conspiracies that trans people

1611
01:25:27,800 --> 01:25:31,280
Speaker 2: made up. It's always conspiracies about trans people. It's like, like,

1612
01:25:31,360 --> 01:25:32,880
Speaker 2: can we never get one that like.

1613
01:25:33,160 --> 01:25:36,240
Speaker 4: Often I can't remember the last time I had like

1614
01:25:36,360 --> 01:25:40,720
Speaker 4: a positive Pride Month episode, which I feel kind of

1615
01:25:40,800 --> 01:25:43,840
Speaker 4: bad about, but I don't know. It's still an interesting

1616
01:25:43,880 --> 01:25:46,400
Speaker 4: topic and I've not seen this discussed as much as

1617
01:25:46,439 --> 01:25:49,280
Speaker 4: that should be. And you know, last week, I really

1618
01:25:49,360 --> 01:25:51,719
Speaker 4: thought I was going to have, you know, a difficult

1619
01:25:51,800 --> 01:25:54,800
Speaker 4: work week researching Trump pornography. I thought that'd be, like,

1620
01:25:54,880 --> 01:25:57,320
Speaker 4: you know, the low part of my month. But it

1621
01:25:57,360 --> 01:25:59,599
Speaker 4: turns out spending three days to sifting through mass Shooter

1622
01:26:00,479 --> 01:26:04,800
Speaker 4: is actually much worse, much worse than looking through Trump board.

1623
01:26:05,200 --> 01:26:06,320
Speaker 2: So Jarisy, can I can?

1624
01:26:06,400 --> 01:26:06,920
Speaker 3: I can? I can?

1625
01:26:06,960 --> 01:26:09,280
Speaker 2: I recommend that you two spend your time listening to

1626
01:26:09,320 --> 01:26:11,720
Speaker 2: a bunch of rioters talking about the absolute worst time

1627
01:26:11,760 --> 01:26:16,160
Speaker 2: of their life. Much better, all right, So let's get

1628
01:26:16,320 --> 01:26:21,040
Speaker 2: into it. We're gonna talk first about video games. I'm

1629
01:26:21,080 --> 01:26:24,640
Speaker 2: gonna quote a tweet from a kind of failure of

1630
01:26:24,720 --> 01:26:27,160
Speaker 2: a far right influencer, which is exciting because they're mostly

1631
01:26:27,160 --> 01:26:29,920
Speaker 2: gonna be talking about successful ones. But is this guy

1632
01:26:30,040 --> 01:26:34,720
Speaker 2: named ben ko uk flag in bio, so opinion immediately discarded.

1633
01:26:34,920 --> 01:26:40,200
Speaker 2: But he has said a few days ago quote Activision's

1634
01:26:40,280 --> 01:26:43,679
Speaker 2: Call of Duty has added transgender bullets to the game

1635
01:26:43,840 --> 01:26:47,040
Speaker 2: in honor of Pride Month, so you can literally play

1636
01:26:47,200 --> 01:26:51,679
Speaker 2: as a transgender mass shooter unquote. This tweet was almost

1637
01:26:51,920 --> 01:26:56,160
Speaker 2: ripped word for word by Ian Miles Chung basically said

1638
01:26:56,160 --> 01:26:59,639
Speaker 2: the exact same thing, except you said role play, not play.

1639
01:27:00,120 --> 01:27:03,960
Speaker 2: Extremely funny and I did not realize the bullets themselves

1640
01:27:04,000 --> 01:27:07,680
Speaker 2: identified as trans. But good for she her they them,

1641
01:27:08,200 --> 01:27:11,799
Speaker 2: I guess. So we started to see this claim repeated

1642
01:27:11,960 --> 01:27:15,720
Speaker 2: through the anti trans far right grifter media space right.

1643
01:27:15,840 --> 01:27:18,960
Speaker 2: Limbs of TikTok said that quote call of Duty is

1644
01:27:19,000 --> 01:27:23,320
Speaker 2: now enabling kids to rule play being a literal trans terrorist.

1645
01:27:24,160 --> 01:27:27,080
Speaker 2: And for some reason, whenever Limbs of TikTok writes terrorists,

1646
01:27:27,920 --> 01:27:29,439
Speaker 2: she asterix out the o's.

1647
01:27:30,600 --> 01:27:34,000
Speaker 4: I don't know why, but this this started to pick

1648
01:27:34,080 --> 01:27:36,200
Speaker 4: up steam. There was an article in Glenn Beck's The

1649
01:27:36,200 --> 01:27:39,919
Speaker 4: Blaze quote call of Duty Pride Bundle let's players simulate

1650
01:27:40,160 --> 01:27:43,799
Speaker 4: murder using trans flag adorned guns and bullets.

1651
01:27:44,640 --> 01:27:47,000
Speaker 2: I'm so excited for these people to fi to find

1652
01:27:47,000 --> 01:27:51,200
Speaker 2: out about counter strike. There are gonna be literally so many,

1653
01:27:51,760 --> 01:27:54,200
Speaker 2: so many articles. They just have the video clip of

1654
01:27:54,280 --> 01:27:56,559
Speaker 2: the thing in places at the n words says terrorists win.

1655
01:27:57,760 --> 01:28:01,160
Speaker 4: The Quartering wrote, call of Duty is so trans Pride

1656
01:28:01,280 --> 01:28:07,400
Speaker 4: bullets whatevery mass shooter wants. So what's going on here?

1657
01:28:07,920 --> 01:28:10,960
Speaker 4: Cause this, you know, if you're not as online as

1658
01:28:11,000 --> 01:28:13,800
Speaker 4: some of us, some other people are you know, this

1659
01:28:13,960 --> 01:28:17,280
Speaker 4: is maybe confusing. Why are they saying that trans people

1660
01:28:17,320 --> 01:28:18,240
Speaker 4: are all mass shooters?

1661
01:28:18,320 --> 01:28:18,400
Speaker 2: Now?

1662
01:28:18,479 --> 01:28:19,000
Speaker 4: What's going on?

1663
01:28:19,600 --> 01:28:20,280
Speaker 5: And you know?

1664
01:28:20,720 --> 01:28:23,600
Speaker 4: And also if you're thinking it's kind of odd that

1665
01:28:23,680 --> 01:28:25,400
Speaker 4: there would be a Call of Duty update where you

1666
01:28:25,439 --> 01:28:28,160
Speaker 4: can literally play as a transgender mass shooter and shoot

1667
01:28:28,240 --> 01:28:32,000
Speaker 4: transgender bullets, you would be right because that never happened.

1668
01:28:32,760 --> 01:28:35,080
Speaker 4: It's false, no way, not this time.

1669
01:28:35,439 --> 01:28:36,080
Speaker 2: We created it.

1670
01:28:36,560 --> 01:28:39,439
Speaker 4: Not this time. No, not this time. So let's get

1671
01:28:39,479 --> 01:28:41,200
Speaker 4: into what's really going on with this Call of Duty

1672
01:28:41,240 --> 01:28:43,840
Speaker 4: Pride update, and then we'll discuss why so many of

1673
01:28:44,120 --> 01:28:46,839
Speaker 4: these far right influences are pushing this kind of trans

1674
01:28:47,080 --> 01:28:50,600
Speaker 4: terrorist story. So on June first, Activision did release an

1675
01:28:50,680 --> 01:28:53,599
Speaker 4: update for the terrible new Call of Duty Modern Warfare three.

1676
01:28:54,080 --> 01:28:57,960
Speaker 4: It contained anime mecha skins and seven free weapon skins

1677
01:28:58,160 --> 01:29:00,519
Speaker 4: themed after various Pride flegs. Now, some would argue that

1678
01:29:00,560 --> 01:29:03,839
Speaker 4: the mechasuits are essentially also Pride themed, but I digress.

1679
01:29:04,120 --> 01:29:07,479
Speaker 4: For this Pride Weapon Camo pack, it will color your

1680
01:29:07,520 --> 01:29:10,040
Speaker 4: gun with the flag of your choosing. One of the

1681
01:29:10,120 --> 01:29:13,639
Speaker 4: said flags is the blue, pink and white trans flag. Yet,

1682
01:29:13,680 --> 01:29:16,240
Speaker 4: if you apply the trans skin to any of the

1683
01:29:16,280 --> 01:29:19,600
Speaker 4: regular guns in the game, the bullets will not be trans'd.

1684
01:29:19,880 --> 01:29:23,639
Speaker 4: So what gives without the transgender bullets? How is anyone

1685
01:29:23,720 --> 01:29:26,920
Speaker 4: supposed to literally role play a mass shooter like libs

1686
01:29:26,920 --> 01:29:29,360
Speaker 4: of tech Talk and Ian Miles Chung say we can.

1687
01:29:30,040 --> 01:29:33,760
Speaker 4: So it turns out these quote unquote transgender bullets were

1688
01:29:33,800 --> 01:29:36,080
Speaker 4: in fact not intentionally added to the game in honor

1689
01:29:36,080 --> 01:29:38,280
Speaker 4: of Pride Month, and are most likely a bug that

1690
01:29:38,360 --> 01:29:42,839
Speaker 4: affects one single gun when one exclusive attachment is equipped.

1691
01:29:42,880 --> 01:29:46,160
Speaker 4: I'm going to quote from Kotaku quote Modern Warfare three's

1692
01:29:46,320 --> 01:29:49,040
Speaker 4: M four came with a special Soul Harvester weapon blueprint

1693
01:29:49,080 --> 01:29:51,000
Speaker 4: which includes a skin and a specific attachment for the

1694
01:29:51,120 --> 01:29:53,439
Speaker 4: M four and quote unquote trace a rounds, which are

1695
01:29:53,520 --> 01:29:56,599
Speaker 4: colorful AMMO options that also leave traces of different visual

1696
01:29:56,640 --> 01:29:58,880
Speaker 4: effects like paint splatters or rose petals.

1697
01:29:59,479 --> 01:29:59,960
Speaker 2: This is special.

1698
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:02,639
Speaker 4: The blueprint was for people who spend one hundred dollars

1699
01:30:02,720 --> 01:30:05,560
Speaker 4: to purchase the Vault edition of the game. Based on

1700
01:30:05,640 --> 01:30:08,559
Speaker 4: Kataku's testing, it appears the quote unquote trans bullets only

1701
01:30:08,560 --> 01:30:11,560
Speaker 4: appear when applying the transgender flag Camo skin on this

1702
01:30:11,760 --> 01:30:15,240
Speaker 4: specific weapon blueprint. It's unclear this is a bug. At

1703
01:30:15,280 --> 01:30:17,479
Speaker 4: one point during testing, the bullets in the cartridge were

1704
01:30:17,520 --> 01:30:19,960
Speaker 4: only the pink colors in the flag or is just

1705
01:30:20,120 --> 01:30:23,000
Speaker 4: an extremely indiosyncratic reflection of how Call of Duty's complex

1706
01:30:23,040 --> 01:30:27,599
Speaker 4: shader system interacts across thousands of items and cosmetics. During testing,

1707
01:30:27,960 --> 01:30:31,040
Speaker 4: any other Camo skin applied to the M four Soul

1708
01:30:31,080 --> 01:30:34,160
Speaker 4: Harvester blueprint resulted in bullets in the cartridge changing the

1709
01:30:34,240 --> 01:30:35,639
Speaker 4: color to match that skin.

1710
01:30:35,960 --> 01:30:36,400
Speaker 2: Unquote.

1711
01:30:37,280 --> 01:30:39,439
Speaker 4: Now, I do think it's a little bit silly that

1712
01:30:39,479 --> 01:30:42,600
Speaker 4: there's so much uproar about these trans colored bullets, but

1713
01:30:43,560 --> 01:30:46,599
Speaker 4: not as much about like just a trans colored gun,

1714
01:30:46,880 --> 01:30:50,280
Speaker 4: Like why is the bullet the big thing?

1715
01:30:51,080 --> 01:30:52,840
Speaker 2: And we all know that you.

1716
01:30:52,920 --> 01:30:55,840
Speaker 4: Can't play as a mass shooter in Call of Duty.

1717
01:30:56,080 --> 01:30:59,280
Speaker 4: You play as a war criminal and most transgender war

1718
01:30:59,320 --> 01:31:02,439
Speaker 4: criminals are just drone pilots or work for Raytheon. If

1719
01:31:02,479 --> 01:31:04,400
Speaker 4: you want to play a mass shooter game, you can

1720
01:31:04,479 --> 01:31:07,040
Speaker 4: just play GTA five or hit Man, where you play

1721
01:31:07,080 --> 01:31:07,720
Speaker 4: as CIS men.

1722
01:31:08,400 --> 01:31:09,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I.

1723
01:31:09,160 --> 01:31:12,400
Speaker 4: Know, but the Russian terrorist airport level don't at me.

1724
01:31:12,479 --> 01:31:16,880
Speaker 4: I don't care anyway. There there was a great article

1725
01:31:17,000 --> 01:31:20,560
Speaker 4: in former Tucker Carlson Project, The Daily Caller with the

1726
01:31:20,640 --> 01:31:23,759
Speaker 4: headline Pride Month finally comes for one of the last

1727
01:31:23,920 --> 01:31:29,160
Speaker 4: bastions of manhood and the opening tagline is gamers. They

1728
01:31:29,360 --> 01:31:30,680
Speaker 4: targeted gamers.

1729
01:31:31,200 --> 01:31:33,479
Speaker 3: Oh no, So.

1730
01:31:33,600 --> 01:31:38,759
Speaker 4: Anyway, what's really at play here with this transmash shooter stuff.

1731
01:31:39,640 --> 01:31:42,439
Speaker 4: This is just another beat in the rhetorical strategy that

1732
01:31:42,520 --> 01:31:45,760
Speaker 4: conservative anti trans influencers have been building over the past

1733
01:31:45,920 --> 01:31:48,599
Speaker 4: year and a half, using a mix of cherry picked data,

1734
01:31:48,720 --> 01:31:52,519
Speaker 4: bad stats, and often outright lies to convince people that

1735
01:31:52,600 --> 01:31:57,080
Speaker 4: there is an increasing epidemic of transgender mass killing attacks

1736
01:31:57,240 --> 01:32:00,880
Speaker 4: sweeping the nation. When discussing this, Calling Duty, Pride Pack

1737
01:32:01,280 --> 01:32:05,160
Speaker 4: Libs of TikTok said, quote, with the uptick in actual

1738
01:32:05,400 --> 01:32:09,000
Speaker 4: trans violence we've been seeing, it's alarming that call of

1739
01:32:09,080 --> 01:32:12,800
Speaker 4: duty would introduce this and a Blaze article read quote.

1740
01:32:12,960 --> 01:32:16,160
Speaker 4: Critics have suggested activision Blizzard may want to reconsider given

1741
01:32:16,240 --> 01:32:20,479
Speaker 4: the recent mass shootings executed by lgbt radicals. There have

1742
01:32:20,600 --> 01:32:23,840
Speaker 4: been multiple mass shootings executed, attempted, or at the very

1743
01:32:23,960 --> 01:32:28,759
Speaker 4: least planned by transvestites and LGBTQ radicals in recent years.

1744
01:32:29,720 --> 01:32:34,560
Speaker 4: So this Blaze article begins by listing four alleged instances

1745
01:32:34,800 --> 01:32:38,719
Speaker 4: of these trans mass shooters. Two of these simply never happened,

1746
01:32:39,120 --> 01:32:42,439
Speaker 4: as the alleged transgender individuals, a trans guy and a

1747
01:32:42,560 --> 01:32:46,400
Speaker 4: fifty six year old organ and nazi were arrested after

1748
01:32:46,479 --> 01:32:50,760
Speaker 4: they made concerning posts online. And the other two which

1749
01:32:50,880 --> 01:32:55,960
Speaker 4: which did happen. These were shootings, except these were never

1750
01:32:55,960 --> 01:32:57,120
Speaker 4: actually done by trans people.

1751
01:32:57,320 --> 01:33:00,080
Speaker 3: It's a made up tick. It's a total fabrication. It

1752
01:33:00,240 --> 01:33:00,799
Speaker 3: never happened.

1753
01:33:01,200 --> 01:33:02,040
Speaker 6: It never happened.

1754
01:33:02,200 --> 01:33:03,679
Speaker 2: This one was invented by a writer.

1755
01:33:04,320 --> 01:33:08,439
Speaker 4: So although this transgender mass shooter narrative might not be real,

1756
01:33:09,080 --> 01:33:10,040
Speaker 4: do you know what is real?

1757
01:33:10,160 --> 01:33:12,320
Speaker 2: Mia? Is it capitalism?

1758
01:33:12,680 --> 01:33:15,920
Speaker 4: It is, and capitalism is fueled, at least currently by

1759
01:33:16,000 --> 01:33:30,080
Speaker 4: the products and sponsors that support this podcast. Okay, we

1760
01:33:30,160 --> 01:33:34,400
Speaker 4: are back now. Trying to frame every new mass shooter

1761
01:33:34,560 --> 01:33:38,080
Speaker 4: as some like crazed leftist of some variety is an

1762
01:33:38,120 --> 01:33:41,320
Speaker 4: old tactic popularized by the likes of Andy Know, Which

1763
01:33:41,400 --> 01:33:44,679
Speaker 4: is you know ironic? Considering the fact that political extremist

1764
01:33:44,720 --> 01:33:48,880
Speaker 4: related killings for the past ten years are overwhelmingly done

1765
01:33:49,000 --> 01:33:52,599
Speaker 4: by individuals tied to right wing extremism, the ADL puts

1766
01:33:52,640 --> 01:33:55,880
Speaker 4: it at seventy five percent, whereas leftist extremism, which is

1767
01:33:55,920 --> 01:33:59,280
Speaker 4: categorized as including anarchists as well as black nationalist groups,

1768
01:33:59,720 --> 01:34:02,599
Speaker 4: are responsible for just four percent. Most of the rest

1769
01:34:02,680 --> 01:34:07,160
Speaker 4: they categorize as Islamic violent extremists, including the twenty sixteen

1770
01:34:07,240 --> 01:34:10,880
Speaker 4: Pulse nightclub massacre targeted against c people in Orlando, although

1771
01:34:11,240 --> 01:34:14,240
Speaker 4: one could argue that that is also right wing extremistum

1772
01:34:14,400 --> 01:34:16,559
Speaker 4: like they are also right wiggers like It's like yes,

1773
01:34:17,000 --> 01:34:19,920
Speaker 4: it turns out the ADL might have troubling some troubling

1774
01:34:20,000 --> 01:34:24,040
Speaker 4: ways of collecting data breaking news anyway, regardless of the

1775
01:34:24,120 --> 01:34:27,439
Speaker 4: actual facts. Lying about the political demographic of mass shooters

1776
01:34:27,520 --> 01:34:30,080
Speaker 4: is an old tactic employed by far right content creators

1777
01:34:30,360 --> 01:34:33,599
Speaker 4: to gain clicks and influence the talking points of more

1778
01:34:33,680 --> 01:34:37,240
Speaker 4: popular media figures and politicians, And now the past few

1779
01:34:37,320 --> 01:34:40,120
Speaker 4: years we've seen a new iteration of this tactic, where

1780
01:34:40,280 --> 01:34:42,360
Speaker 4: in the confusion and chaos of the first few minutes

1781
01:34:42,400 --> 01:34:45,320
Speaker 4: and hours after a shooting, anti trans influencers will do

1782
01:34:45,439 --> 01:34:48,639
Speaker 4: everything they can to frame an alleged or suspected shooter

1783
01:34:48,960 --> 01:34:52,559
Speaker 4: of being transgender, often using out of context social media posts,

1784
01:34:52,640 --> 01:34:56,720
Speaker 4: doctored photographs, photos of other people, or just pictures of

1785
01:34:56,840 --> 01:34:59,880
Speaker 4: like long or dyed hair to affirm that a MAI

1786
01:35:00,200 --> 01:35:04,559
Speaker 4: shooter must actually be transgender now, even if this claim

1787
01:35:04,680 --> 01:35:07,080
Speaker 4: is like widely debunked later on, most of the people

1788
01:35:07,120 --> 01:35:10,040
Speaker 4: that follow these far right accounts won't be hearing about that,

1789
01:35:10,640 --> 01:35:12,080
Speaker 4: So all they need to do is use this brief

1790
01:35:12,120 --> 01:35:16,320
Speaker 4: window of chaos to seed the idea into people's minds.

1791
01:35:16,400 --> 01:35:19,519
Speaker 4: And if you do this thing frequently enough after each

1792
01:35:19,600 --> 01:35:22,400
Speaker 4: new mass shooting, then it's pretty easy to create a

1793
01:35:22,439 --> 01:35:26,680
Speaker 4: false perception of this increasing trend. Now, this style of

1794
01:35:26,800 --> 01:35:30,040
Speaker 4: propaganda has been largely spearheaded by chia y Trek using

1795
01:35:30,120 --> 01:35:34,360
Speaker 4: her libs of TikTok account. Here's another quote from her quote.

1796
01:35:34,760 --> 01:35:38,519
Speaker 4: The modern LGBTQ plus movement is radicalizing young activists into

1797
01:35:38,560 --> 01:35:43,160
Speaker 4: becoming violent terrorist extremists. The uptick in trans violence is

1798
01:35:43,240 --> 01:35:46,479
Speaker 4: going to get worse unquote. But this sort of rhetoric

1799
01:35:46,560 --> 01:35:49,840
Speaker 4: has been spread by many other online figures in this orbit,

1800
01:35:50,280 --> 01:35:54,920
Speaker 4: like disgraced buzzfeedwriter Benny Johnson and chronic poster ian Miles Chunk.

1801
01:35:55,560 --> 01:35:58,280
Speaker 4: Their rhetoric has been spread by sitting politicians Donald Trump

1802
01:35:58,400 --> 01:36:02,160
Speaker 4: Junior and Elon Musk. Now, to clarify, people have been

1803
01:36:02,320 --> 01:36:04,960
Speaker 4: lying about the gender identity of mass shooters for like

1804
01:36:05,040 --> 01:36:07,120
Speaker 4: a long time. It's one of the oldest jokes on

1805
01:36:07,160 --> 01:36:10,120
Speaker 4: four Chan. But what's been going on the past two

1806
01:36:10,240 --> 01:36:13,760
Speaker 4: years is something different, and it requires a little bit

1807
01:36:13,760 --> 01:36:17,960
Speaker 4: more in depth examination of this propaganda trend. Now to

1808
01:36:18,000 --> 01:36:20,439
Speaker 4: get into more specific examples here, I like to break

1809
01:36:20,520 --> 01:36:22,920
Speaker 4: down a common meme format used to spread this type

1810
01:36:22,960 --> 01:36:26,320
Speaker 4: of false propaganda. It's usually about five pictures of mass

1811
01:36:26,360 --> 01:36:29,719
Speaker 4: shooters with text next to each picture that reads something

1812
01:36:29,880 --> 01:36:34,439
Speaker 4: like the Nashville shooter identified as trans, the X shooter

1813
01:36:34,640 --> 01:36:37,439
Speaker 4: identified as trans. So it will just list all of

1814
01:36:37,520 --> 01:36:41,200
Speaker 4: these people that allegedly are mass shooters and allegedly identified

1815
01:36:41,240 --> 01:36:46,160
Speaker 4: as trans. Now, police didn't identify the Nashville Covenant School

1816
01:36:46,160 --> 01:36:49,599
Speaker 4: shooter as a trans man, that we have to take

1817
01:36:49,640 --> 01:36:53,559
Speaker 4: their word for it. They've released no other info on that. Typically,

1818
01:36:53,720 --> 01:36:57,200
Speaker 4: this is seen as like the first legitimate mass shooting

1819
01:36:57,320 --> 01:37:00,720
Speaker 4: done by a transgender individual, and the past year we've

1820
01:37:00,760 --> 01:37:02,680
Speaker 4: been waiting for more and more context to come out

1821
01:37:02,680 --> 01:37:05,760
Speaker 4: about this mass shooting and it's possible motivations. So I'm

1822
01:37:05,800 --> 01:37:07,720
Speaker 4: not even going to really discuss this one right now.

1823
01:37:07,960 --> 01:37:10,040
Speaker 4: Well just to say, sure, this is a trans person

1824
01:37:10,080 --> 01:37:11,840
Speaker 4: who happened to do a mass shooting and leave it

1825
01:37:11,920 --> 01:37:14,400
Speaker 4: at that, even though it's you know, not totally clear.

1826
01:37:14,479 --> 01:37:15,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I do. I want to add one

1827
01:37:15,880 --> 01:37:18,439
Speaker 2: thing briefly, which is that like trying to find out

1828
01:37:18,479 --> 01:37:20,960
Speaker 2: information from the police about a mass shooting is such

1829
01:37:20,960 --> 01:37:24,720
Speaker 2: a crapshoot, Like they just you know, they'll they'll be

1830
01:37:24,840 --> 01:37:28,040
Speaker 2: like an initial flurry of press releases or whatever, and

1831
01:37:28,080 --> 01:37:29,960
Speaker 2: then they just will never talk about it again until

1832
01:37:30,040 --> 01:37:32,439
Speaker 2: maybe the trial. And sometimes you get some from that well.

1833
01:37:32,560 --> 01:37:36,760
Speaker 4: And in often cases for mass shooters who often die,

1834
01:37:37,360 --> 01:37:37,640
Speaker 4: there is.

1835
01:37:37,640 --> 01:37:39,880
Speaker 2: No true never get yeah yeah if they're dead.

1836
01:37:39,960 --> 01:37:43,360
Speaker 4: Like but even keeping this Nashville incident as a legitimate

1837
01:37:43,439 --> 01:37:46,080
Speaker 4: mass shooting done by a person who happens to be

1838
01:37:46,160 --> 01:37:49,640
Speaker 4: trans when talking about this meme, the thing is is

1839
01:37:49,720 --> 01:37:52,599
Speaker 4: that with these five pictures that are on this meme.

1840
01:37:53,160 --> 01:37:55,080
Speaker 2: Most typically three out.

1841
01:37:55,000 --> 01:37:58,800
Speaker 4: Of the five people that have their pictures here aren't

1842
01:37:58,880 --> 01:37:59,679
Speaker 4: even treads.

1843
01:38:00,240 --> 01:38:00,840
Speaker 3: Not this time.

1844
01:38:01,120 --> 01:38:02,040
Speaker 2: It never happened.

1845
01:38:02,439 --> 01:38:05,280
Speaker 3: It is false. It never happened. It's a fake.

1846
01:38:05,640 --> 01:38:06,160
Speaker 2: It's fiction.

1847
01:38:06,720 --> 01:38:06,840
Speaker 3: Now.

1848
01:38:06,920 --> 01:38:10,519
Speaker 4: Most famously, we have the Colorado Springs shooter Anderson Lee Aldrich,

1849
01:38:10,560 --> 01:38:12,479
Speaker 4: who killed five people and injured twenty five others at

1850
01:38:12,520 --> 01:38:15,320
Speaker 4: a queer club in twenty twenty two. Later on, his

1851
01:38:15,439 --> 01:38:19,200
Speaker 4: lawyer claimed that the shooter was non binary, which I

1852
01:38:19,360 --> 01:38:21,880
Speaker 4: believe is a disgusting and disingenuous attempt to get out

1853
01:38:21,920 --> 01:38:24,519
Speaker 4: of the more than now fifty hate crime charges that

1854
01:38:24,600 --> 01:38:27,600
Speaker 4: the shooter is facing. And this opinion is shared not

1855
01:38:27,720 --> 01:38:32,200
Speaker 4: only by the DA but also all other legitimate extremists

1856
01:38:32,200 --> 01:38:35,439
Speaker 4: and researchers. Prior to these claims in court, there was

1857
01:38:36,000 --> 01:38:38,519
Speaker 4: no indication whatsoever that the shooter was non binary or

1858
01:38:38,600 --> 01:38:42,719
Speaker 4: used they then pronouns. However, they did own rainbow flag.

1859
01:38:43,439 --> 01:38:47,519
Speaker 4: Shooting Targets ran a neo Nazi website that posted gun

1860
01:38:47,600 --> 01:38:50,880
Speaker 4: training videos and was known by online acquaintances to frequently

1861
01:38:50,920 --> 01:38:53,240
Speaker 4: post racist and homophobic content. Now I should clarify when

1862
01:38:53,280 --> 01:38:55,799
Speaker 4: I say shooting targets, I don't mean that it's pride

1863
01:38:55,880 --> 01:38:58,920
Speaker 4: theme shooting targets. It's that the people that you are

1864
01:38:59,000 --> 01:39:03,000
Speaker 4: shooting are painted like they are gay. So there you

1865
01:39:03,120 --> 01:39:06,280
Speaker 4: go now. Pictured next in the meme is someone with

1866
01:39:06,439 --> 01:39:10,439
Speaker 4: purple colored hair, labeled as the Denver shooter. This person

1867
01:39:10,640 --> 01:39:13,240
Speaker 4: is not trans, has never claimed to be trans. He

1868
01:39:13,520 --> 01:39:16,400
Speaker 4: just has dyed hair. He killed one person in a

1869
01:39:16,439 --> 01:39:18,880
Speaker 4: school shooting that he planned with a sixteen year old

1870
01:39:18,920 --> 01:39:19,400
Speaker 4: trans guy.

1871
01:39:20,520 --> 01:39:22,880
Speaker 2: In mass shooting? Correct? Correct?

1872
01:39:23,080 --> 01:39:25,200
Speaker 4: Will we will get in We will get into this

1873
01:39:25,320 --> 01:39:28,799
Speaker 4: later because the definition of mass shooting is getting stretched

1874
01:39:29,400 --> 01:39:31,880
Speaker 4: liberally here now. The third person pictured who is in

1875
01:39:32,000 --> 01:39:35,800
Speaker 4: trans changes more frequently in different versions of the meme

1876
01:39:36,240 --> 01:39:39,839
Speaker 4: that you can find online. One version includes someone referenced

1877
01:39:39,920 --> 01:39:43,400
Speaker 4: as the Philadelphia shooter. This is referencing a shooting spree

1878
01:39:43,439 --> 01:39:45,960
Speaker 4: that resulted in five people being killed. This shooter had

1879
01:39:46,000 --> 01:39:49,400
Speaker 4: previously posted photos of himself cross dressing in women's clothes,

1880
01:39:49,920 --> 01:39:52,160
Speaker 4: and this was used by figures like Marjorie Taylor Green

1881
01:39:52,479 --> 01:39:55,679
Speaker 4: to claim that the cis Mail shooter was actually quote

1882
01:39:55,840 --> 01:39:59,960
Speaker 4: another trans shooter. Family of this shooter referred to him

1883
01:40:00,120 --> 01:40:04,080
Speaker 4: as a quote unquote biblical extremist, and he often posted

1884
01:40:04,360 --> 01:40:08,120
Speaker 4: bizarre Christian spiritual conspiracy theories and was an outspoken fan

1885
01:40:08,200 --> 01:40:11,599
Speaker 4: of Tucker Carlson. In another version of the meme posted

1886
01:40:11,600 --> 01:40:15,200
Speaker 4: by Chaia Reichik, she identifies the Uvalde school shooter as

1887
01:40:15,280 --> 01:40:18,800
Speaker 4: transo and includes a picture of a transwoman holding the

1888
01:40:18,880 --> 01:40:22,920
Speaker 4: trans Pride flag. This was posted in January of this year.

1889
01:40:23,640 --> 01:40:26,719
Speaker 4: Elon Musk replied to the tweet with two exclamation points.

1890
01:40:27,200 --> 01:40:27,360
Speaker 3: Now.

1891
01:40:27,720 --> 01:40:30,519
Speaker 4: In the hours after the Euvaldi School shooting, pictures of

1892
01:40:30,600 --> 01:40:33,439
Speaker 4: two or three different transwomen were used to falsely label

1893
01:40:33,520 --> 01:40:36,080
Speaker 4: the shooter as trans, with at least one of these transwomen,

1894
01:40:36,160 --> 01:40:38,400
Speaker 4: being from New York, the other from Georgia. Both these

1895
01:40:38,400 --> 01:40:41,080
Speaker 4: women received a great deal of harassment after the shooting,

1896
01:40:41,479 --> 01:40:44,800
Speaker 4: Arizona Congressman Paul Gozar tweeted that the shooter was quote

1897
01:40:45,080 --> 01:40:49,920
Speaker 4: a transsexual, leftist illegal alien unquote, which is frankly amazing

1898
01:40:50,000 --> 01:40:52,000
Speaker 4: because every word in that sentence is wrong.

1899
01:40:52,400 --> 01:40:53,160
Speaker 3: We made this one up.

1900
01:40:53,360 --> 01:40:55,640
Speaker 1: It's a made up tap, it's a total fabrication.

1901
01:40:56,040 --> 01:40:56,839
Speaker 6: It never happened.

1902
01:40:57,240 --> 01:40:58,040
Speaker 3: It never happened.

1903
01:40:58,520 --> 01:41:00,839
Speaker 4: Now, the other person in this meme that is typically

1904
01:41:00,920 --> 01:41:04,280
Speaker 4: accepted to be trans is the Aberdeen shooter. Now, I'm

1905
01:41:04,320 --> 01:41:05,840
Speaker 4: going to just quote from the Washington Post here.

1906
01:41:05,960 --> 01:41:06,240
Speaker 2: Quote.

1907
01:41:06,560 --> 01:41:09,000
Speaker 4: In twenty eighteen, in Aberdeen, Maryland, a twenty six year

1908
01:41:09,000 --> 01:41:12,120
Speaker 4: old shot and killed three people at a pharmaceuticals distribution

1909
01:41:12,280 --> 01:41:15,400
Speaker 4: center before turning the weapon on themselves. The sheriff said

1910
01:41:15,400 --> 01:41:17,759
Speaker 4: the shooter had been diagnosed as mentally ill. In twenty sixteen,

1911
01:41:18,120 --> 01:41:20,839
Speaker 4: a close friend reported the shooter quote suffered from bipolar

1912
01:41:20,880 --> 01:41:23,719
Speaker 4: disorder and struggled since early in high school with severe depression,

1913
01:41:23,920 --> 01:41:26,439
Speaker 4: partly connected to their feelings of not being accepted when

1914
01:41:26,439 --> 01:41:28,880
Speaker 4: they first came out as a gay teenage girl and

1915
01:41:29,040 --> 01:41:31,880
Speaker 4: later as transgender unquote by most accounts this is the

1916
01:41:31,920 --> 01:41:36,120
Speaker 4: transgender guy who began transitioning shortly before the shooting. Pronouns

1917
01:41:36,160 --> 01:41:39,160
Speaker 4: and stuff are unclear. They also worked at this distribution

1918
01:41:39,280 --> 01:41:42,120
Speaker 4: center a few weeks prior to them doing the shooting.

1919
01:41:42,520 --> 01:41:45,599
Speaker 4: This incident's typically not categorized as a mass shooting because

1920
01:41:45,640 --> 01:41:48,000
Speaker 4: only three people were killed, excluding the shooter.

1921
01:41:49,439 --> 01:41:49,599
Speaker 6: Now.

1922
01:41:49,760 --> 01:41:53,519
Speaker 4: One of the more recent attempts at this transgender terrorist

1923
01:41:53,760 --> 01:41:57,120
Speaker 4: syop was in the aftermath of the shooting at Joel

1924
01:41:57,160 --> 01:42:01,040
Speaker 4: Ostein's megachurch in Houston earlier this February. The shooter was

1925
01:42:01,080 --> 01:42:03,400
Speaker 4: a thirty six year old woman carrying her seven year

1926
01:42:03,439 --> 01:42:06,000
Speaker 4: old son, sadly, both of whom died along with one

1927
01:42:06,040 --> 01:42:09,240
Speaker 4: other person just hours after the shooting. Of far right

1928
01:42:09,280 --> 01:42:13,200
Speaker 4: accounts like lips of TikTok and end Wokeness claimed that

1929
01:42:13,640 --> 01:42:16,560
Speaker 4: she was transgender, pointing to documents where she used the

1930
01:42:16,680 --> 01:42:20,920
Speaker 4: name Jeffrey Now. Chaia Reichek called the shooting quote another

1931
01:42:21,080 --> 01:42:23,960
Speaker 4: act of trans terrorism. We need to have a national

1932
01:42:24,040 --> 01:42:28,400
Speaker 4: conversation about the LGBTQ movement turning youth into violent extremists.

1933
01:42:28,479 --> 01:42:30,840
Speaker 2: Unquote. Didn't she literally say that exact thing with the

1934
01:42:30,960 --> 01:42:33,960
Speaker 2: last one? Yeah, they don't even cope with new tweets.

1935
01:42:33,640 --> 01:42:36,799
Speaker 4: Like they really just have the same five tweets in rotation.

1936
01:42:37,360 --> 01:42:41,080
Speaker 4: Marjorie Taylor Green called her quote a trans from El

1937
01:42:41,240 --> 01:42:47,160
Speaker 4: Salvador unquote. Missouri Representative Josh Holly, Marco Rubio, and Elon

1938
01:42:47,240 --> 01:42:50,839
Speaker 4: musk All post about this quote unquote epidemic of trans violence.

1939
01:42:51,200 --> 01:42:54,280
Speaker 4: These claims were boosted by Donald Trump Junior and Ted Cruz.

1940
01:42:54,800 --> 01:42:57,599
Speaker 4: Fox News ran a whole story with a headline about

1941
01:42:57,600 --> 01:43:02,200
Speaker 4: the shooter being transgender and guess what, She's not trans.

1942
01:43:02,439 --> 01:43:04,640
Speaker 4: She is a cis woman who gave birth to a

1943
01:43:04,760 --> 01:43:08,120
Speaker 4: child and has always identified as a woman. It just

1944
01:43:08,320 --> 01:43:11,639
Speaker 4: appears that she was given a masculine name at birth

1945
01:43:11,800 --> 01:43:14,680
Speaker 4: and later changed it to a more feminine name. The

1946
01:43:14,800 --> 01:43:17,360
Speaker 4: far right content sphere created so much uproar that the

1947
01:43:17,400 --> 01:43:19,400
Speaker 4: police had to do a whole press conference about how

1948
01:43:19,479 --> 01:43:23,160
Speaker 4: the shooter was not trans, and after the Peace lawyers

1949
01:43:23,200 --> 01:43:26,360
Speaker 4: clarified she was not trans, Fox News changed their claim,

1950
01:43:26,680 --> 01:43:30,120
Speaker 4: now saying on air that the shooter quote identified as

1951
01:43:30,360 --> 01:43:34,400
Speaker 4: both genders and was quote a biological woman who sometimes

1952
01:43:34,439 --> 01:43:38,400
Speaker 4: identified as a man named Jeffrey unquote, which just isn't true.

1953
01:43:39,360 --> 01:43:40,599
Speaker 2: Jesus Christ.

1954
01:43:40,960 --> 01:43:43,240
Speaker 4: But the thing about this one is that it wasn't

1955
01:43:43,360 --> 01:43:45,800
Speaker 4: just far right influencers in Fox News who ran with

1956
01:43:45,880 --> 01:43:50,760
Speaker 4: this transgender narrative. MSNBC jumped on very early to say

1957
01:43:50,760 --> 01:43:54,559
Speaker 4: that the shooter was quote a Hispanic transgender woman who

1958
01:43:54,680 --> 01:43:57,879
Speaker 4: quote unquote identified as a woman unquote.

1959
01:43:58,320 --> 01:44:02,080
Speaker 3: Is totally made up, pure fiction. It's fiction. It's fiction.

1960
01:44:02,600 --> 01:44:03,200
Speaker 3: We made it up.

1961
01:44:03,680 --> 01:44:06,160
Speaker 2: MSNBC war like MSNB.

1962
01:44:05,880 --> 01:44:12,559
Speaker 5: Shit, great great with me, great, great, doing great this morning.

1963
01:44:15,680 --> 01:44:17,160
Speaker 4: Do you know what's also doing great?

1964
01:44:17,240 --> 01:44:20,519
Speaker 2: Mia? Is it the products and services support this podcast.

1965
01:44:20,680 --> 01:44:24,519
Speaker 4: They're pretty consistent. Yeah, they are still around and here

1966
01:44:24,640 --> 01:44:26,360
Speaker 4: you can listen to their important messages.

1967
01:44:37,200 --> 01:44:38,920
Speaker 2: All right, we are so back.

1968
01:44:40,040 --> 01:44:43,160
Speaker 4: So there's so many more cases like the ones that

1969
01:44:43,200 --> 01:44:45,519
Speaker 4: I've talked about. Right. The reason I started working on

1970
01:44:45,560 --> 01:44:47,519
Speaker 4: this episode in the first place was due to far

1971
01:44:47,600 --> 01:44:50,920
Speaker 4: right accounts claiming that a man named Jared Rivierez, who

1972
01:44:51,040 --> 01:44:52,960
Speaker 4: killed his seventy year old roommate and went on a

1973
01:44:53,040 --> 01:44:55,960
Speaker 4: massive stabbing spree last month outside of an AMC theater

1974
01:44:56,000 --> 01:44:59,400
Speaker 4: and a McDonald's Massachusetts, was claimed to be a quote

1975
01:44:59,600 --> 01:45:02,080
Speaker 4: mentally ill trans terrorist by limbs.

1976
01:45:01,920 --> 01:45:03,000
Speaker 1: Of TikTok and.

1977
01:45:04,479 --> 01:45:09,040
Speaker 4: A transactivist quote unquote who's a man who thinks he's

1978
01:45:09,080 --> 01:45:11,800
Speaker 4: a woman, which is a line libs of TikTok loves

1979
01:45:11,920 --> 01:45:15,840
Speaker 4: using Now. Jared claimed to be an artist in a

1980
01:45:15,920 --> 01:45:20,000
Speaker 4: model but was actually like this really weird like grifter entrepreneur.

1981
01:45:20,479 --> 01:45:23,080
Speaker 4: He kind of reminds me of that weird Canadian cat

1982
01:45:23,680 --> 01:45:26,880
Speaker 4: killer Luke Megnan YadA, who like created a whole bunch

1983
01:45:26,920 --> 01:45:30,519
Speaker 4: of fake posts to like pretend to be famous and

1984
01:45:30,600 --> 01:45:34,479
Speaker 4: like created like fake fans. It's very similar to this case.

1985
01:45:34,560 --> 01:45:38,439
Speaker 4: And later this guy Luke in Canada also killed a

1986
01:45:38,560 --> 01:45:43,800
Speaker 4: gay man. Very similar cases. Honestly, Jared here again, he's

1987
01:45:43,880 --> 01:45:47,639
Speaker 4: like pretending to be like an international entrepreneur. He looks

1988
01:45:47,680 --> 01:45:51,240
Speaker 4: like this weird like hippie surfer dude with long bleached hair.

1989
01:45:51,880 --> 01:45:55,000
Speaker 4: Jared's father is a wealthy Christian therapist who looks very

1990
01:45:55,040 --> 01:45:58,160
Speaker 4: similar and anti trans influencers have pointed to the word

1991
01:45:58,320 --> 01:46:02,599
Speaker 4: she on Jared's Instagram file, but Jared's actual gender identity

1992
01:46:02,760 --> 01:46:05,840
Speaker 4: is really unclear. He's never pictured wearing women's clothing. He

1993
01:46:05,840 --> 01:46:10,519
Speaker 4: would frequently post shirtless buff selfies. Jared has never claimed

1994
01:46:10,520 --> 01:46:12,880
Speaker 4: to be trans or a woman, and has never used

1995
01:46:12,960 --> 01:46:17,240
Speaker 4: transgender language or iconography. Jared did file a name change

1996
01:46:17,280 --> 01:46:20,960
Speaker 4: request last April, but it was to change his last name.

1997
01:46:21,400 --> 01:46:24,639
Speaker 4: He goes by Jared. That same month, April, So two

1998
01:46:24,680 --> 01:46:27,679
Speaker 4: months ago, Jared sexually harassed a model at a Beverly

1999
01:46:27,720 --> 01:46:30,040
Speaker 4: Hills hotel, saying that he wanted to have kids with

2000
01:46:30,160 --> 01:46:32,800
Speaker 4: her and proposed to her, saying, I'm going to be

2001
01:46:32,960 --> 01:46:37,240
Speaker 4: a good husband. You're gonna be my wife. Unquote. This

2002
01:46:37,360 --> 01:46:40,799
Speaker 4: person simply, we have no no reason to think they're trans.

2003
01:46:41,200 --> 01:46:45,120
Speaker 4: They do this, They do like weird like art stuff,

2004
01:46:46,080 --> 01:46:50,639
Speaker 4: and I don't know. They're like California, Beverly Hills, poison brained,

2005
01:46:51,040 --> 01:46:53,559
Speaker 4: and it seems to they seem to have gone through

2006
01:46:53,640 --> 01:46:56,000
Speaker 4: some kind of mental health breakdown which resulted in them

2007
01:46:56,080 --> 01:47:00,120
Speaker 4: killing their roommate, two dogs, and stabbing like six or

2008
01:47:00,120 --> 01:47:04,280
Speaker 4: seven people in Massachusetts. But another trans terrorist? Sure?

2009
01:47:04,560 --> 01:47:04,880
Speaker 5: Why not?

2010
01:47:05,560 --> 01:47:08,000
Speaker 4: In January of this year, in Iowa, teenager open fire

2011
01:47:08,200 --> 01:47:11,800
Speaker 4: at a school, killing one person and then himself again.

2012
01:47:11,880 --> 01:47:15,360
Speaker 4: The usual suspects were super quick to label him as

2013
01:47:15,360 --> 01:47:18,720
Speaker 4: another trans terrorist, Elon Musk saying, this is happening a lot.

2014
01:47:18,880 --> 01:47:22,519
Speaker 4: Something is deeply wrong. This kid largely seemed like a

2015
01:47:22,640 --> 01:47:26,479
Speaker 4: regular gen Z liberal. He listed his pronouns as he they.

2016
01:47:27,360 --> 01:47:30,160
Speaker 4: He posted things like nominally in support of trans people.

2017
01:47:30,439 --> 01:47:33,120
Speaker 4: He used the hashtag gender fluid a single time in

2018
01:47:33,200 --> 01:47:36,000
Speaker 4: a TikTok video filmed with what appears to be a

2019
01:47:36,040 --> 01:47:38,639
Speaker 4: trans friend of his. He also posted on Reddit two

2020
01:47:38,680 --> 01:47:41,920
Speaker 4: years ago that he didn't want to transition because he

2021
01:47:42,280 --> 01:47:46,719
Speaker 4: didn't quote wants to look ugly. He never specifically identified

2022
01:47:46,720 --> 01:47:49,040
Speaker 4: as trans. This is just kind of a tragic case.

2023
01:47:49,160 --> 01:47:51,040
Speaker 4: I don't know what the deal with this kid was.

2024
01:47:51,200 --> 01:47:56,479
Speaker 4: They seemed deeply confused and upset and killed someone and

2025
01:47:56,560 --> 01:48:01,400
Speaker 4: then killed themselves. It sucks, but it's not a mass shooting,

2026
01:48:01,479 --> 01:48:05,439
Speaker 4: and it doesn't it doesn't link to anything being a

2027
01:48:05,640 --> 01:48:09,680
Speaker 4: pattern of transgender terrorism. That does not stop someone like

2028
01:48:09,720 --> 01:48:12,679
Speaker 4: Donald Trump Junior is saying, quote, the modern LGBTQ plus

2029
01:48:12,760 --> 01:48:16,120
Speaker 4: movement is radicalizing our youth into becoming violent extremists per capita.

2030
01:48:16,439 --> 01:48:18,600
Speaker 4: Is there a more violent group of people anywhere in

2031
01:48:18,680 --> 01:48:22,840
Speaker 4: the world than radicalized transactivists Given the tiny fraction of

2032
01:48:22,840 --> 01:48:25,000
Speaker 4: the population they make up, it doesn't seem like anyone

2033
01:48:25,040 --> 01:48:29,080
Speaker 4: else comes even close. We have a lot of claims

2034
01:48:29,160 --> 01:48:32,240
Speaker 4: like this, which is why I need to start talking

2035
01:48:32,240 --> 01:48:37,640
Speaker 4: about statistics my least favorite thing, because this sort of

2036
01:48:37,680 --> 01:48:40,639
Speaker 4: messaging is repeated a lot. We have this post from

2037
01:48:40,680 --> 01:48:43,320
Speaker 4: I think Benny Johnson or Donald Trump Junior. I can't

2038
01:48:43,320 --> 01:48:45,960
Speaker 4: twelve which one because unfortunately it got deleted before I

2039
01:48:46,080 --> 01:48:48,200
Speaker 4: was able to log who did it, so apologies for that.

2040
01:48:48,439 --> 01:48:51,519
Speaker 4: But it's a very similar sort of thing, saying there's

2041
01:48:51,520 --> 01:48:54,200
Speaker 4: been at least five massive tacks by transgender people since

2042
01:48:54,200 --> 01:48:56,960
Speaker 4: twenty eighteen. Considering the group makes up less than point

2043
01:48:57,000 --> 01:49:00,639
Speaker 4: five percent of the population, that's a massive overrepresentation. We'll

2044
01:49:00,680 --> 01:49:04,880
Speaker 4: get into that in a sec. So boy often when

2045
01:49:05,280 --> 01:49:09,000
Speaker 4: these people are talking about this trend of trans mass shooters,

2046
01:49:09,280 --> 01:49:12,479
Speaker 4: they're focusing specifically on the period of time between twenty

2047
01:49:12,520 --> 01:49:16,640
Speaker 4: eighteen and twenty twenty four because largely a lot of

2048
01:49:16,680 --> 01:49:19,719
Speaker 4: conservatives think that trans people were kind of like invented

2049
01:49:19,760 --> 01:49:22,240
Speaker 4: around twenty eighteen. That's when they first started to kind

2050
01:49:22,240 --> 01:49:25,920
Speaker 4: of like notice that people were trans, which is something

2051
01:49:25,920 --> 01:49:28,040
Speaker 4: we've talked about before in terms of like the arc

2052
01:49:28,080 --> 01:49:31,800
Speaker 4: of homophobia and transphobia in relation to like gay marriage

2053
01:49:31,840 --> 01:49:33,320
Speaker 4: and like a few other things. This is something we've

2054
01:49:33,360 --> 01:49:36,519
Speaker 4: reported about consistently on the show. So they're very often

2055
01:49:36,600 --> 01:49:39,680
Speaker 4: only looking at data from select years, and as we've

2056
01:49:39,680 --> 01:49:44,160
Speaker 4: discussed here, they largely inflate the number of quote unquote

2057
01:49:44,240 --> 01:49:46,719
Speaker 4: mass shooters, as well as the number of mass shooters

2058
01:49:46,760 --> 01:49:50,680
Speaker 4: who they call transgender. They will often, you know, very

2059
01:49:50,720 --> 01:49:53,080
Speaker 4: loosely define what a mass shooting is when it suits them,

2060
01:49:53,320 --> 01:49:56,400
Speaker 4: and then very strictly define it when it doesn't. In

2061
01:49:56,479 --> 01:49:59,280
Speaker 4: the Blaze article about that Call of Duty pride pack,

2062
01:49:59,400 --> 01:50:02,280
Speaker 4: they say quote uote trans identifying suspects. A share of

2063
01:50:02,320 --> 01:50:05,040
Speaker 4: public mass shootings nationwide over the twenty eighteen or twenty

2064
01:50:05,080 --> 01:50:08,680
Speaker 4: twenty three period is reportedly well over seven times their

2065
01:50:08,720 --> 01:50:12,799
Speaker 4: share of the population, which links to a very sketchy

2066
01:50:13,160 --> 01:50:16,560
Speaker 4: right wing crime stats website that doesn't publish any of

2067
01:50:16,640 --> 01:50:20,800
Speaker 4: their data. So sure, so, there is a few different

2068
01:50:20,800 --> 01:50:23,920
Speaker 4: ways to categorize what a mass shooting is. There's no

2069
01:50:24,120 --> 01:50:26,840
Speaker 4: universal definition for what makes a mass shooting versus a

2070
01:50:27,040 --> 01:50:30,960
Speaker 4: mass killing, so different groups categorize things kind of differently.

2071
01:50:31,840 --> 01:50:34,960
Speaker 4: The Mass Killing Database is a partnership between the ap

2072
01:50:35,360 --> 01:50:38,839
Speaker 4: USA Today and Northwestern University, and it defines mass killings

2073
01:50:38,920 --> 01:50:42,080
Speaker 4: quote as the intentional killing of four or more victims,

2074
01:50:42,200 --> 01:50:45,280
Speaker 4: excluding the deaths of unborn children and the offenders by

2075
01:50:45,400 --> 01:50:48,519
Speaker 4: any means, within a twenty four hour period. Their database

2076
01:50:48,560 --> 01:50:51,599
Speaker 4: currently lists five hundred and ninety such killings since two

2077
01:50:51,680 --> 01:50:55,120
Speaker 4: thousand and six. James Allen Fox, professor of criminology and

2078
01:50:55,240 --> 01:50:58,360
Speaker 4: law at Northwestern University who manages the database, has said, quote,

2079
01:50:58,680 --> 01:51:01,320
Speaker 4: you can count the number of transgender and non binary

2080
01:51:01,360 --> 01:51:06,040
Speaker 4: shooters on one hand, they're actually underrepresented unquote, And again

2081
01:51:06,800 --> 01:51:09,680
Speaker 4: it's possible that because of how successful the right has

2082
01:51:09,720 --> 01:51:12,280
Speaker 4: been at this syop. When you're counting these number of

2083
01:51:12,360 --> 01:51:16,000
Speaker 4: transgender non binary shooters on one hand, that's also super

2084
01:51:16,120 --> 01:51:20,880
Speaker 4: overrepresented because they're most likely containing like the Colorado spring

2085
01:51:20,960 --> 01:51:23,639
Speaker 4: shooter and a lot of these other people. Now, trans

2086
01:51:23,680 --> 01:51:26,599
Speaker 4: people on average are reported to make up about one

2087
01:51:26,640 --> 01:51:29,880
Speaker 4: percent of the US population, but that number is steadily growing.

2088
01:51:30,120 --> 01:51:31,880
Speaker 4: We got to pump those numbers up. Those are rookie

2089
01:51:31,920 --> 01:51:34,000
Speaker 4: numbers now. It's also just kind of unclear what that

2090
01:51:34,080 --> 01:51:36,280
Speaker 4: number actually is. That's the current one from the US

2091
01:51:36,400 --> 01:51:39,600
Speaker 4: Census Bureau, and kind of an average, doubt because a

2092
01:51:39,680 --> 01:51:43,320
Speaker 4: lot of stats of like people older than twenty five

2093
01:51:43,520 --> 01:51:45,960
Speaker 4: say the numbers at like round zero point five point

2094
01:51:46,040 --> 01:51:49,760
Speaker 4: six percent versus people under twenty five reportedly it's like

2095
01:51:49,920 --> 01:51:51,720
Speaker 4: one point five percent. So you know, I'm just going

2096
01:51:51,760 --> 01:51:54,439
Speaker 4: to say around one percent now under most criterias for

2097
01:51:54,600 --> 01:51:58,880
Speaker 4: mass killings. Only one incident, the one in Nashville, qualifies

2098
01:51:59,000 --> 01:52:03,040
Speaker 4: for inclusion. Another data source called The Violence Project has

2099
01:52:03,080 --> 01:52:05,960
Speaker 4: recorded data on mass shootings in the US since nineteen

2100
01:52:06,040 --> 01:52:09,240
Speaker 4: sixty six. They more narrowly define a mass killing as

2101
01:52:09,240 --> 01:52:12,639
Speaker 4: four more people killed in a public unconnected to other

2102
01:52:12,800 --> 01:52:16,679
Speaker 4: criminal activity. Their current database has one hundred and ninety

2103
01:52:16,720 --> 01:52:20,360
Speaker 4: three entries. A spokesperson for their organization told Reuters that

2104
01:52:20,760 --> 01:52:24,240
Speaker 4: the twenty twenty three Nashville shooting quote is the first

2105
01:52:24,400 --> 01:52:27,560
Speaker 4: case of a trans perpetrator in their database, per their methodology.

2106
01:52:28,280 --> 01:52:31,519
Speaker 4: Another more broad data collection project is called the Gun

2107
01:52:31,680 --> 01:52:35,519
Speaker 4: Violence Archive. I'm just going to quote from Reuter's heer quote.

2108
01:52:35,760 --> 01:52:38,120
Speaker 4: The Gun Violence Archive, which began collecting data on gun

2109
01:52:38,200 --> 01:52:40,840
Speaker 4: violence in the US in twenty thirteen, recorded more than

2110
01:52:40,920 --> 01:52:43,519
Speaker 4: four thousand and four hundred mass shootings in the last decade.

2111
01:52:43,800 --> 01:52:45,840
Speaker 4: Its definition of a mass shooting is four or more

2112
01:52:45,880 --> 01:52:50,000
Speaker 4: people shot resulting in injury or death, excluding the perpetrator

2113
01:52:50,479 --> 01:52:52,840
Speaker 4: of those quote. The number of known suspects in a

2114
01:52:52,880 --> 01:52:55,720
Speaker 4: mass shooting which are trans is under ten for the

2115
01:52:55,800 --> 01:52:59,120
Speaker 4: last decade, which translated to zero point one one percent

2116
01:52:59,479 --> 01:53:03,360
Speaker 4: of the four four hundred shootings unquote, which is about

2117
01:53:03,439 --> 01:53:06,160
Speaker 4: nine times lower than SIS people per capita if we

2118
01:53:06,320 --> 01:53:10,519
Speaker 4: use the one percent trans population stat and even using

2119
01:53:10,600 --> 01:53:13,760
Speaker 4: the more conservative mass killing data set, the rate of

2120
01:53:13,880 --> 01:53:17,040
Speaker 4: this sort of violence by trans people is far lower

2121
01:53:17,160 --> 01:53:20,080
Speaker 4: than what would match our population margin. I'm going to

2122
01:53:20,120 --> 01:53:22,000
Speaker 4: add in a short quote from the Washington Post to

2123
01:53:22,120 --> 01:53:25,400
Speaker 4: kind of add in some context here quote. The gun

2124
01:53:25,479 --> 01:53:28,320
Speaker 4: violence Archive methodology would allow for inclusion of the Aberdeen

2125
01:53:28,400 --> 01:53:31,599
Speaker 4: and Denver cases, with zero point six percent of the population,

2126
01:53:31,680 --> 01:53:33,920
Speaker 4: one would expect at least sixteen mass shootings to be

2127
01:53:33,960 --> 01:53:37,920
Speaker 4: conducted by people identifying as trans in the past five years. Instead,

2128
01:53:38,000 --> 01:53:41,439
Speaker 4: there are just three possible cases cited by most conservatives unquote.

2129
01:53:41,880 --> 01:53:44,280
Speaker 4: So after looking over all of this data, it would

2130
01:53:44,439 --> 01:53:48,240
Speaker 4: actually appear that transgender people are less likely to commit

2131
01:53:48,280 --> 01:53:51,560
Speaker 4: a mass shooting than CIS people, even by some of

2132
01:53:51,600 --> 01:53:55,000
Speaker 4: the more conservative estimates. The other side of this is

2133
01:53:55,040 --> 01:53:58,160
Speaker 4: that not only are trans people less likely to you know,

2134
01:53:58,560 --> 01:54:01,160
Speaker 4: do this sort of violence, they are way more likely

2135
01:54:01,280 --> 01:54:03,920
Speaker 4: to be on the receiving end than sispeople. For the

2136
01:54:04,000 --> 01:54:06,880
Speaker 4: National Archive of Criminal Justice data, LGBTQ plus people are

2137
01:54:06,920 --> 01:54:08,360
Speaker 4: more than twice as likely to be a victim of

2138
01:54:08,400 --> 01:54:11,320
Speaker 4: gun violence than their cisgender and straight peers. According to

2139
01:54:11,360 --> 01:54:14,800
Speaker 4: the Human Rights Campaign, twenty nine percent of transgender youth

2140
01:54:14,880 --> 01:54:17,639
Speaker 4: have been threatened or injured with a weapon on school property,

2141
01:54:17,920 --> 01:54:20,720
Speaker 4: compared to seven percent of cisgender youth. So even for

2142
01:54:20,760 --> 01:54:23,280
Speaker 4: school shootings, you are so much, so much more likely

2143
01:54:23,400 --> 01:54:27,280
Speaker 4: to face gun violence at school if you are trans, transgender,

2144
01:54:27,320 --> 01:54:30,640
Speaker 4: non binary, gender question people have reportedly higher rates of

2145
01:54:30,760 --> 01:54:33,440
Speaker 4: being impacted or knowing someone who's been impacted by a

2146
01:54:33,480 --> 01:54:37,840
Speaker 4: mass shooting compared to their cisgender queer peers. This is,

2147
01:54:38,000 --> 01:54:40,200
Speaker 4: you know, a data average, but it's usually around twenty

2148
01:54:40,200 --> 01:54:42,960
Speaker 4: two percent to nineteen percent. And this whole topic gets

2149
01:54:43,000 --> 01:54:46,000
Speaker 4: so much more like dark and grounded when you know

2150
01:54:46,040 --> 01:54:48,280
Speaker 4: that three hundred and twenty trans people were killed last

2151
01:54:48,360 --> 01:54:51,800
Speaker 4: year according to data from the annual Trans Murder Monitoring Report,

2152
01:54:52,240 --> 01:54:54,560
Speaker 4: which is like, it's so dark that we even have

2153
01:54:54,720 --> 01:54:57,680
Speaker 4: something called the Trans Murder Monitoring Report.

2154
01:54:58,240 --> 01:55:00,560
Speaker 2: Also, we need to mention this because I don't think

2155
01:55:00,600 --> 01:55:03,400
Speaker 2: people this is really badly understood people who aren't trans.

2156
01:55:03,440 --> 01:55:06,840
Speaker 2: But those numbers are always significant undercounts, because yes, those

2157
01:55:06,920 --> 01:55:09,720
Speaker 2: projects are people scraping. Basically, news reports are trying to

2158
01:55:09,760 --> 01:55:12,320
Speaker 2: find like the families of victims, and there are a

2159
01:55:12,360 --> 01:55:15,200
Speaker 2: lot of people who get killed who the only people

2160
01:55:15,240 --> 01:55:17,200
Speaker 2: who know are their friends. And those people fucking either

2161
01:55:17,200 --> 01:55:19,440
Speaker 2: aren't talking to the press or the precious never like

2162
01:55:20,080 --> 01:55:22,560
Speaker 2: covers it, or you know, the police give their dead

2163
01:55:22,640 --> 01:55:24,760
Speaker 2: name and never talk about it, so they just are

2164
01:55:24,920 --> 01:55:26,520
Speaker 2: dead and everyone thinks they're sis.

2165
01:55:27,080 --> 01:55:27,280
Speaker 3: Yep.

2166
01:55:27,520 --> 01:55:30,360
Speaker 4: And just in the United States last year, thirty three

2167
01:55:30,400 --> 01:55:32,959
Speaker 4: trans people were murdered, and again this is a vast undercount.

2168
01:55:33,080 --> 01:55:35,640
Speaker 4: Like Mia said, meanwhile, you have all these people on

2169
01:55:35,680 --> 01:55:38,360
Speaker 4: the right who will talk about all of these, all

2170
01:55:38,440 --> 01:55:42,120
Speaker 4: these alleged mass shootings by alleged trans people, And one

2171
01:55:42,160 --> 01:55:44,560
Speaker 4: of their favorite lines when they try to like affirm

2172
01:55:44,680 --> 01:55:48,360
Speaker 4: that a shooter is actually trans is quote watch how

2173
01:55:48,480 --> 01:55:51,760
Speaker 4: quickly the story will now disappear unquote, which is just

2174
01:55:52,080 --> 01:55:55,160
Speaker 4: ironic for a few reasons. One, because that's how news works,

2175
01:55:55,320 --> 01:55:57,280
Speaker 4: is that we move on to a new thing. But

2176
01:55:57,880 --> 01:56:01,280
Speaker 4: also it'll probably disappear as well well because they're not

2177
01:56:01,440 --> 01:56:04,400
Speaker 4: actually trans, you know, when you're in the case of

2178
01:56:04,480 --> 01:56:08,520
Speaker 4: the Uvaldi shooter, in the case of the megachurch shooter

2179
01:56:08,640 --> 01:56:11,760
Speaker 4: from last year. Yeah, people move on. But also they're

2180
01:56:11,800 --> 01:56:14,360
Speaker 4: not going to keep harping on your weird conspiracy theory

2181
01:56:14,360 --> 01:56:17,280
Speaker 4: because it's a weird conspiracy theory. It's not true even

2182
01:56:17,360 --> 01:56:19,320
Speaker 4: if this is, even if they were right, which they

2183
01:56:19,360 --> 01:56:21,880
Speaker 4: are not. It also is just like imagine in like

2184
01:56:22,000 --> 01:56:24,880
Speaker 4: nineteen twenty or like, we have a problematic rise in

2185
01:56:25,040 --> 01:56:27,440
Speaker 4: left handed mass shooters. So we're like, well, yeah, because

2186
01:56:27,440 --> 01:56:29,640
Speaker 4: there's more left handed people, there's going to be at

2187
01:56:29,720 --> 01:56:33,880
Speaker 4: least some level of correlation statistically. Again, these people act

2188
01:56:33,960 --> 01:56:36,280
Speaker 4: like trans people were only invented in twenty eighteen and

2189
01:56:36,360 --> 01:56:39,160
Speaker 4: are just like slowly like recruiting in numbers, which, hey,

2190
01:56:39,440 --> 01:56:41,760
Speaker 4: you know, at least we are kind of slowly recruiting,

2191
01:56:42,240 --> 01:56:44,680
Speaker 4: And like the actual goal of this rhetoric, beyond just

2192
01:56:44,840 --> 01:56:48,160
Speaker 4: you know, altering the fabric of reality, is to just

2193
01:56:48,400 --> 01:56:51,280
Speaker 4: encourage violence against trans people. That is what they're doing.

2194
01:56:51,720 --> 01:56:53,880
Speaker 4: It's to see trans people as a threat that you

2195
01:56:54,520 --> 01:56:57,520
Speaker 4: feel justified in doing violence against them. Just a few

2196
01:56:57,560 --> 01:57:01,840
Speaker 4: weeks ago, a very popular gun YouTuber made this joke

2197
01:57:01,920 --> 01:57:05,720
Speaker 4: where they were talking about, you know, getting ready to

2198
01:57:05,920 --> 01:57:09,760
Speaker 4: shoot a tea word and they stopped and they were like, oh, sorry,

2199
01:57:09,840 --> 01:57:14,040
Speaker 4: I mean a school shooter. Wink wink. So like they're

2200
01:57:14,080 --> 01:57:17,200
Speaker 4: trying to use school shooter to be a dog whistle

2201
01:57:17,320 --> 01:57:20,120
Speaker 4: for trans people This is all just to justify violence.

2202
01:57:20,160 --> 01:57:23,000
Speaker 4: That's all this is doing, and to some degree it's working.

2203
01:57:23,320 --> 01:57:26,120
Speaker 4: Just last week, a trans kid was assaulted in the

2204
01:57:26,160 --> 01:57:30,160
Speaker 4: men's bathroom at school and reportedly one of their teeth exploded.

2205
01:57:30,840 --> 01:57:33,440
Speaker 4: This was a trans girl who was using the men's

2206
01:57:33,480 --> 01:57:36,120
Speaker 4: bathroom like all of these freaks want them to, and

2207
01:57:36,240 --> 01:57:38,920
Speaker 4: she still got assaulted. I think it's super important when

2208
01:57:38,920 --> 01:57:41,920
Speaker 4: talking about this sort of unreality propaganda is that like

2209
01:57:42,760 --> 01:57:46,000
Speaker 4: these people like Limbs of TikTok and Miles Schong, they're

2210
01:57:46,080 --> 01:57:49,560
Speaker 4: not just like falling further into a delusional conspiracy theory.

2211
01:57:49,600 --> 01:57:52,160
Speaker 4: Same thing with Elon Musk, Right, it's easy. I think

2212
01:57:52,160 --> 01:57:54,160
Speaker 4: it's easy to be like, oh, they just actually like

2213
01:57:54,560 --> 01:57:59,080
Speaker 4: legitimately are like falling into this like conspiratorial delusion.

2214
01:57:59,400 --> 01:58:00,760
Speaker 2: And it's not that.

2215
01:58:01,400 --> 01:58:04,600
Speaker 4: What it is is they are actually intentionally crafting reality.

2216
01:58:04,960 --> 01:58:09,160
Speaker 4: It's not them like falling victim to this like unfortunate delusion.

2217
01:58:09,440 --> 01:58:11,760
Speaker 4: They are choosing which a version of reality to believe

2218
01:58:11,800 --> 01:58:14,240
Speaker 4: in because it's the one that they want, and that's

2219
01:58:14,240 --> 01:58:16,480
Speaker 4: what they're doing, and they want it to be a

2220
01:58:16,520 --> 01:58:20,840
Speaker 4: reality where more people feel comfortable assaulting and killing trans people.

2221
01:58:21,200 --> 01:58:23,160
Speaker 4: That's that's the actual goal of its propaganda.

2222
01:58:23,720 --> 01:58:26,160
Speaker 2: We need to be very clear about this, about what's

2223
01:58:26,200 --> 01:58:29,600
Speaker 2: sort of happening here, which is one of the fastest

2224
01:58:29,760 --> 01:58:32,680
Speaker 2: ways to get a group of people to commit a

2225
01:58:32,760 --> 01:58:35,160
Speaker 2: genocide is by convincing them that they are all about

2226
01:58:35,200 --> 01:58:35,720
Speaker 2: to be killed.

2227
01:58:35,920 --> 01:58:36,040
Speaker 5: Right.

2228
01:58:36,480 --> 01:58:38,160
Speaker 2: This is one of the things behind this or behind

2229
01:58:38,160 --> 01:58:40,520
Speaker 2: the Bosnian genocide, This is one of the things behind Rwanda.

2230
01:58:41,360 --> 01:58:42,160
Speaker 5: Is if you can.

2231
01:58:42,080 --> 01:58:44,120
Speaker 2: Convince a lot of people that their neighbors are about

2232
01:58:44,120 --> 01:58:46,880
Speaker 2: to fucking kill them, that's how you get them to

2233
01:58:46,920 --> 01:58:48,800
Speaker 2: do the genocide. Because the thing that they believe is

2234
01:58:48,880 --> 01:58:50,960
Speaker 2: that like, oh, this is self defense, Like these people

2235
01:58:50,960 --> 01:58:53,560
Speaker 2: are about to kill us, and that is the kind

2236
01:58:53,600 --> 01:58:57,080
Speaker 2: of reality tunnel being mobilized here is a is it

2237
01:58:57,120 --> 01:59:00,200
Speaker 2: called genocide? And the other side of this that I

2238
01:59:00,240 --> 01:59:01,720
Speaker 2: think is so grim is that there used to be

2239
01:59:01,800 --> 01:59:04,320
Speaker 2: a time as a society where you know, we attempted

2240
01:59:04,520 --> 01:59:06,560
Speaker 2: to explain why there are mass shootings.

2241
01:59:07,360 --> 01:59:07,480
Speaker 3: Right.

2242
01:59:07,840 --> 01:59:10,200
Speaker 2: This is something that I remember living through. Like if

2243
01:59:10,240 --> 01:59:12,800
Speaker 2: you go back to like twenty sixteen, two thousand, seventeen,

2244
01:59:12,840 --> 01:59:15,880
Speaker 2: twenty fifteen, like we used to there used to be

2245
01:59:16,000 --> 01:59:21,040
Speaker 2: people other than these just like genocidal fascists attempting to

2246
01:59:21,200 --> 01:59:26,080
Speaker 2: explain why why these shootings were happening. The actual data

2247
01:59:26,160 --> 01:59:28,400
Speaker 2: on transmass shooters and how few of them there are

2248
01:59:29,000 --> 01:59:31,800
Speaker 2: is quietly devastating to a lot of the theories that

2249
01:59:31,920 --> 01:59:34,040
Speaker 2: used to be sort of bandied about, right, the theories

2250
01:59:34,040 --> 01:59:36,160
Speaker 2: that this was about sort of objection, the theory that

2251
01:59:36,200 --> 01:59:39,120
Speaker 2: this was about this, you know, like sort of de

2252
01:59:39,200 --> 01:59:41,920
Speaker 2: industrialization and like the consequences that this has had on

2253
01:59:42,000 --> 01:59:43,280
Speaker 2: people that there were you know, it was this sort

2254
01:59:43,280 --> 01:59:45,920
Speaker 2: of like downward social mobility that was causing this violence. Right,

2255
01:59:45,960 --> 01:59:47,880
Speaker 2: If any of that were true, there would be a

2256
01:59:47,920 --> 01:59:51,760
Speaker 2: fucking million mass shooters, because again, the transpoverty rate is

2257
01:59:52,800 --> 01:59:55,120
Speaker 2: like it's it's it's a rits around thirty percent, right,

2258
01:59:55,200 --> 01:59:56,640
Speaker 2: for the rest of the country it is like a

2259
01:59:56,760 --> 01:59:59,320
Speaker 2: quarter as well, it's that quarter. It's like a third

2260
01:59:59,440 --> 02:00:04,600
Speaker 2: of that much, which right, there should be if it

2261
02:00:04,760 --> 02:00:08,360
Speaker 2: was just purely a product of like material conditions, there

2262
02:00:08,400 --> 02:00:10,560
Speaker 2: would be a lot more transmitted shooters. But there aren't

2263
02:00:10,640 --> 02:00:13,400
Speaker 2: because again, you know, the actual theory that fits this

2264
02:00:13,640 --> 02:00:18,120
Speaker 2: data and fits also the behavior of all of these people,

2265
02:00:18,280 --> 02:00:20,080
Speaker 2: like all of these sort of fascists trying to explain

2266
02:00:20,120 --> 02:00:22,760
Speaker 2: mass shootings as being about trans people. The thing that

2267
02:00:22,840 --> 02:00:25,040
Speaker 2: it fits is this is the theory that this is

2268
02:00:25,120 --> 02:00:27,400
Speaker 2: basically the replacement of clan rallies. Right, we don't have

2269
02:00:27,560 --> 02:00:30,320
Speaker 2: we don't have collective lynchings anymore. We have individual ones.

2270
02:00:31,520 --> 02:00:33,680
Speaker 2: And all of these fucking people are trying to make

2271
02:00:33,720 --> 02:00:36,959
Speaker 2: sure that there's just more lynchings and that these lynchings

2272
02:00:37,040 --> 02:00:39,920
Speaker 2: are you know, is like it's there their sort of

2273
02:00:40,120 --> 02:00:42,760
Speaker 2: like armed follower fanatics go and shoot a bunch more

2274
02:00:42,800 --> 02:00:45,920
Speaker 2: trans people in a nclub, and then you know, once

2275
02:00:46,000 --> 02:00:48,160
Speaker 2: that happens, they will disavow it by saying, oh, hey,

2276
02:00:48,280 --> 02:00:51,280
Speaker 2: this this this nightclub shooting was this is actually done

2277
02:00:51,320 --> 02:00:54,000
Speaker 2: by a fucking transperson. They'll keep doing this until they

2278
02:00:54,080 --> 02:00:56,560
Speaker 2: have enough political power to openly come out and claim

2279
02:00:56,800 --> 02:00:59,320
Speaker 2: that all of these people were their fucking revolutionary heroes

2280
02:01:00,040 --> 02:01:02,600
Speaker 2: in their nude fucking pantheon of the fascist state.

2281
02:01:03,240 --> 02:01:05,120
Speaker 4: And there was that trans boy who was assaulted in

2282
02:01:05,320 --> 02:01:08,400
Speaker 4: the bathroom a few months ago and died days later

2283
02:01:08,480 --> 02:01:12,000
Speaker 4: in the hospital. There's this this It keeps happening. And

2284
02:01:12,120 --> 02:01:14,680
Speaker 4: I didn't want this to be like a depressing episode.

2285
02:01:14,720 --> 02:01:17,760
Speaker 4: I wanted this to break down a conspiracy theory I've

2286
02:01:17,760 --> 02:01:20,560
Speaker 4: been seeing more frequently talk about you know what's fueling

2287
02:01:20,640 --> 02:01:23,360
Speaker 4: it actually go over the instances that are included in

2288
02:01:23,480 --> 02:01:27,120
Speaker 4: it to kind of you know, debunk for lack of

2289
02:01:27,200 --> 02:01:30,480
Speaker 4: a better term, uh, this sort of rhetoric, and just

2290
02:01:30,520 --> 02:01:32,040
Speaker 4: so you can be more aware of it when you

2291
02:01:32,160 --> 02:01:34,920
Speaker 4: see it, because often you'll see this this you know,

2292
02:01:35,200 --> 02:01:38,840
Speaker 4: this meme with five five pictures, you'll see a copy

2293
02:01:38,920 --> 02:01:43,000
Speaker 4: pasta version of it. So just just being aware of

2294
02:01:43,280 --> 02:01:45,480
Speaker 4: what this is, what the what this rhetoric is trying

2295
02:01:45,520 --> 02:01:50,320
Speaker 4: to do, and the you know, unfortunate fact that trans

2296
02:01:50,400 --> 02:01:53,480
Speaker 4: people are form are far far more likely to be

2297
02:01:53,600 --> 02:01:56,879
Speaker 4: a victim of gun violence and mash and mass shootings

2298
02:01:58,320 --> 02:02:02,400
Speaker 4: than they ever then then say people and are actually

2299
02:02:02,480 --> 02:02:07,720
Speaker 4: less likely to participate in such violence statistically speaking. So yeah,

2300
02:02:07,800 --> 02:02:10,720
Speaker 4: that is the episode today. Not meant to be depressing,

2301
02:02:10,920 --> 02:02:13,280
Speaker 4: just meant to be informative. But you know, when it

2302
02:02:13,360 --> 02:02:15,880
Speaker 4: comes to me, those things often overlap.

2303
02:02:16,440 --> 02:02:17,400
Speaker 2: Any such cases.

2304
02:02:17,680 --> 02:02:19,840
Speaker 4: I hope you have, I hope you have a good

2305
02:02:19,920 --> 02:02:22,200
Speaker 4: Pride month, Stay safe and stay dangerous.

2306
02:02:35,520 --> 02:02:38,080
Speaker 7: Hello and welcome to it could happen here. This is

2307
02:02:38,240 --> 02:02:40,880
Speaker 7: Sharene and today we are going to be talking about

2308
02:02:40,920 --> 02:02:43,680
Speaker 7: the current quote unquote peace plan that was presented by

2309
02:02:43,720 --> 02:02:46,400
Speaker 7: the US and what they say is their attempt to

2310
02:02:46,560 --> 02:02:49,680
Speaker 7: end the genocide in Lesse. They call it a war,

2311
02:02:49,800 --> 02:02:51,840
Speaker 7: and I call it what it is, which is a genocide.

2312
02:02:52,640 --> 02:02:55,640
Speaker 7: Earlier this month, Joe Biden announced what he claimed was

2313
02:02:55,680 --> 02:02:58,960
Speaker 7: an Israeli peace plan to bring about an eventual ceasefire

2314
02:02:59,000 --> 02:03:02,400
Speaker 7: in Jse. But according to journalists and anyone with eyes,

2315
02:03:02,920 --> 02:03:06,360
Speaker 7: the new plan is almost indistinguishable from previous plans proposed

2316
02:03:06,360 --> 02:03:09,200
Speaker 7: by Hamas. We're going to get into the details of

2317
02:03:09,240 --> 02:03:11,400
Speaker 7: the US plan in a little bit, but first I

2318
02:03:11,520 --> 02:03:14,720
Speaker 7: want to address the immense loss of Palestinian life that

2319
02:03:14,840 --> 02:03:18,160
Speaker 7: has led up to this plan, because if the plan

2320
02:03:18,320 --> 02:03:21,240
Speaker 7: is successful, it would usher in a ceasefire to a

2321
02:03:21,320 --> 02:03:25,280
Speaker 7: genocide that has killed more than thirty seven thousand Palestinians,

2322
02:03:25,520 --> 02:03:28,280
Speaker 7: which is a very low estimate, and the majority of

2323
02:03:28,360 --> 02:03:32,320
Speaker 7: these deaths are women and children. Not only have Palestinian

2324
02:03:32,440 --> 02:03:36,440
Speaker 7: children been brutally slaughtered for months, but Razza now has

2325
02:03:36,520 --> 02:03:41,320
Speaker 7: the largest population of child amputees in the world. In November,

2326
02:03:41,480 --> 02:03:44,640
Speaker 7: children in Razza hosted a press conference in English to

2327
02:03:44,800 --> 02:03:49,160
Speaker 7: beg the world for life. It's June now, and all

2328
02:03:49,200 --> 02:03:52,960
Speaker 7: we've seen since then is massacre after massacre. And while

2329
02:03:53,000 --> 02:03:55,160
Speaker 7: I think drawing attention to the children and the women

2330
02:03:55,200 --> 02:03:58,600
Speaker 7: who have been slaughtered is immensely necessary and important. I

2331
02:03:58,680 --> 02:04:02,120
Speaker 7: also want to emphasize that Palestinian men are not expendable,

2332
02:04:02,480 --> 02:04:04,920
Speaker 7: and not mentioning the immense loss that we have suffered

2333
02:04:04,920 --> 02:04:08,240
Speaker 7: across the board with men included, implies to the world

2334
02:04:08,320 --> 02:04:11,200
Speaker 7: that Arab men are not worth mourning, not worth saving

2335
02:04:11,320 --> 02:04:14,720
Speaker 7: nor protecting, that they are all terrorists or terrorists to

2336
02:04:14,760 --> 02:04:18,080
Speaker 7: be who are simply killed as casualties in the quote

2337
02:04:18,160 --> 02:04:21,840
Speaker 7: fog of war. I also think that the mention of

2338
02:04:21,920 --> 02:04:24,720
Speaker 7: children is specifically used as a way to at least

2339
02:04:24,880 --> 02:04:28,640
Speaker 7: try to make the world empathize and fucking feel something

2340
02:04:28,720 --> 02:04:32,160
Speaker 7: about the lives that have been stolen. Parents literally hold

2341
02:04:32,360 --> 02:04:36,200
Speaker 7: up the limp and decapitated bodies of their babies in

2342
02:04:36,280 --> 02:04:40,760
Speaker 7: its broadcasts worldwide, and yet the dehumanization of Arabs runs

2343
02:04:40,960 --> 02:04:44,880
Speaker 7: so deep that such graphic displays of horror and death

2344
02:04:45,120 --> 02:04:49,680
Speaker 7: are considered normal. No one bats an eye. It is

2345
02:04:49,760 --> 02:04:53,320
Speaker 7: insane that two hundred and seventy four Palestinians were slaughtered

2346
02:04:53,440 --> 02:04:55,680
Speaker 7: for four prisoners of war who could have been released

2347
02:04:55,720 --> 02:04:59,320
Speaker 7: in a prisoner exchange exchanges and deals that Israel has

2348
02:04:59,360 --> 02:05:02,440
Speaker 7: repeatedly red. We will get into this more in this episode,

2349
02:05:03,240 --> 02:05:06,960
Speaker 7: and people are celebrating this shameful military operation which US

2350
02:05:07,040 --> 02:05:10,040
Speaker 7: troops were a part of, and ignoring the Palestinians that

2351
02:05:10,120 --> 02:05:13,920
Speaker 7: were killed and murdered in the process, further emphasizing that

2352
02:05:14,040 --> 02:05:18,200
Speaker 7: Palestinian life is not as important as Israeli life by

2353
02:05:18,240 --> 02:05:21,560
Speaker 7: a huge margin. In in case you didn't hear the

2354
02:05:21,600 --> 02:05:24,600
Speaker 7: details about this operation that I'm talking about, US and

2355
02:05:24,720 --> 02:05:29,320
Speaker 7: Israeli troops infiltrated a refugee camp in trucks disguised as

2356
02:05:29,440 --> 02:05:34,200
Speaker 7: humanitarian aid to trojan horse their way into further massacrering

2357
02:05:34,320 --> 02:05:39,080
Speaker 7: and maiming people who were already being forcibly starved. Are

2358
02:05:39,120 --> 02:05:43,400
Speaker 7: you hearing this one more time? They infiltrated a refugee

2359
02:05:43,520 --> 02:05:49,720
Speaker 7: camp and trucks disguised as humanitarian aid. Israeli special forces

2360
02:05:49,760 --> 02:05:53,440
Speaker 7: were also disguised as Palestinian refugees looking for a place

2361
02:05:53,520 --> 02:05:56,240
Speaker 7: to live when they entered the buildings where they thought

2362
02:05:56,240 --> 02:06:00,200
Speaker 7: the hostages were being held. Remember in January, and there

2363
02:06:00,240 --> 02:06:02,800
Speaker 7: was also video evidence of the IOF pretending to be

2364
02:06:02,920 --> 02:06:05,840
Speaker 7: medical staff in a hospital and then shooting and killing

2365
02:06:05,920 --> 02:06:09,120
Speaker 7: unarmed doctors, nurses, and patients. Oh, and then there was

2366
02:06:09,200 --> 02:06:13,240
Speaker 7: the discovery of at least three mass graves at Elsheffa hospital,

2367
02:06:13,480 --> 02:06:17,160
Speaker 7: where bodies, including many wearing scrubs, were found zip tied

2368
02:06:17,240 --> 02:06:20,720
Speaker 7: and buried in piles. Israel has been doing this for

2369
02:06:20,880 --> 02:06:23,920
Speaker 7: months and years and decades, and they've been getting away

2370
02:06:24,000 --> 02:06:28,360
Speaker 7: with it for months and years and decades. No one

2371
02:06:28,480 --> 02:06:31,080
Speaker 7: is hiding how they feel anymore. They are out here

2372
02:06:31,200 --> 02:06:34,760
Speaker 7: showing us with their actions. It's not ambiguous, it is

2373
02:06:34,880 --> 02:06:38,640
Speaker 7: not confusing. They are making it very simple. They are

2374
02:06:38,720 --> 02:06:43,160
Speaker 7: making it crystal clear. Palestinians do not matter, and Israel's

2375
02:06:43,160 --> 02:06:47,520
Speaker 7: intention is to continue their ethnic cleansing of Palestine. What's

2376
02:06:47,560 --> 02:06:50,360
Speaker 7: happening in Gliza is not about the hostages, and it

2377
02:06:50,440 --> 02:06:53,600
Speaker 7: has never been about the hostages. If that isn't clear

2378
02:06:53,680 --> 02:06:56,040
Speaker 7: to you by now, you have not been paying attention

2379
02:06:57,280 --> 02:07:01,880
Speaker 7: a few things about the hostages. Hamas has repeatedly offered

2380
02:07:01,920 --> 02:07:05,080
Speaker 7: since last year to release all hostages in exchange for

2381
02:07:05,240 --> 02:07:09,960
Speaker 7: Israel releasing all Palestinian prisoners. As of November first, according

2382
02:07:10,000 --> 02:07:14,600
Speaker 7: to Human Rights Watch, Israel held nearly seven thousand Palestinians

2383
02:07:14,640 --> 02:07:17,320
Speaker 7: in its prisons, and many of those held captive by

2384
02:07:17,440 --> 02:07:21,200
Speaker 7: Israel are not convicted of any crime. At least three

2385
02:07:21,320 --> 02:07:24,320
Speaker 7: thousand and six hundred and sixty Palestinians being held in

2386
02:07:24,480 --> 02:07:29,760
Speaker 7: Israel are under what is called administrative detention. An administrative

2387
02:07:29,840 --> 02:07:33,520
Speaker 7: detainee is someone held in prison without charge nor trial,

2388
02:07:34,440 --> 02:07:38,400
Speaker 7: without charge, no crime committed. I want to take a

2389
02:07:38,480 --> 02:07:41,240
Speaker 7: moment to bring up a report that came out recently

2390
02:07:41,400 --> 02:07:44,880
Speaker 7: that's not getting nearly enough attention. It's truly horrific, and

2391
02:07:44,920 --> 02:07:46,920
Speaker 7: I don't know how people are just glossing over it.

2392
02:07:47,680 --> 02:07:51,640
Speaker 7: But New York Times recently reported that Palestinians are being

2393
02:07:51,720 --> 02:07:55,480
Speaker 7: tortured and abused in Israeli prisons. Two journalists from the

2394
02:07:55,480 --> 02:07:58,840
Speaker 7: New York Times spent three months interviewing Israeli soldiers as

2395
02:07:58,880 --> 02:08:02,600
Speaker 7: well as Palestinians were detained at one particular prison. I'm

2396
02:08:02,640 --> 02:08:04,120
Speaker 7: not going to pretend I know how to pronounce it.

2397
02:08:04,480 --> 02:08:09,720
Speaker 7: It's spelled sde space Tei m An said Teman. I'm

2398
02:08:09,720 --> 02:08:12,400
Speaker 7: just going to go with that. But essentially, Israel is

2399
02:08:12,440 --> 02:08:16,120
Speaker 7: carrying out a policy of systematic torture in this army base,

2400
02:08:16,640 --> 02:08:19,160
Speaker 7: and this army base has been used as a detention

2401
02:08:19,280 --> 02:08:22,440
Speaker 7: camp for Palestinians from the Gaza Strip. This was all

2402
02:08:22,520 --> 02:08:26,240
Speaker 7: confirmed by a New York Times investigation. Reports of abuse

2403
02:08:26,280 --> 02:08:28,840
Speaker 7: at this site had already emerged in both Israeli and

2404
02:08:28,880 --> 02:08:32,240
Speaker 7: Arab media, and this was followed by outcries from local

2405
02:08:32,320 --> 02:08:36,839
Speaker 7: and international rights groups about the horrific conditions there. Apparently,

2406
02:08:36,960 --> 02:08:40,360
Speaker 7: it was mainly used as a quote makeshift interrogation center,

2407
02:08:40,920 --> 02:08:43,240
Speaker 7: but now it has become a major focus for the

2408
02:08:43,320 --> 02:08:47,640
Speaker 7: accusations that the Israeli military has mistreated its detainees, including

2409
02:08:47,720 --> 02:08:50,760
Speaker 7: people who were later determined to have no ties to

2410
02:08:50,880 --> 02:08:54,760
Speaker 7: Hamas or any other armed groups. The investigation revealed that

2411
02:08:54,840 --> 02:08:57,760
Speaker 7: at least twelve hundred Palestinian civilians were detained at this

2412
02:08:57,920 --> 02:09:01,480
Speaker 7: site in quote demeaning condition, without the ability to plead

2413
02:09:01,520 --> 02:09:03,960
Speaker 7: their cases to adjudge for up to seventy five days,

2414
02:09:04,480 --> 02:09:07,800
Speaker 7: and additionally denied access to lawyers for up to ninety days.

2415
02:09:08,560 --> 02:09:12,000
Speaker 7: Eight former detainees, all of whom the military confirmed were

2416
02:09:12,080 --> 02:09:15,240
Speaker 7: held at the site and spoke on the record, said

2417
02:09:15,280 --> 02:09:19,240
Speaker 7: they had been punched, kicked, and beaten with batons, rifle butts,

2418
02:09:19,480 --> 02:09:22,000
Speaker 7: and a handheld metal detector while they were in custody.

2419
02:09:22,640 --> 02:09:24,880
Speaker 7: Others said that they had been forced to wear a

2420
02:09:25,040 --> 02:09:28,720
Speaker 7: diaper while being interrogated, and that they had received electric

2421
02:09:28,840 --> 02:09:32,720
Speaker 7: shocks during their interrogation. According to the new York Times.

2422
02:09:32,960 --> 02:09:36,360
Speaker 7: Most of these testimonies were corroborated by interviews conducted by

2423
02:09:36,440 --> 02:09:40,800
Speaker 7: officials from the unr WA, the UN Agency for Palistine Refugees.

2424
02:09:41,640 --> 02:09:45,960
Speaker 7: The agency interviewed hundreds of returning detainees who reported widespread

2425
02:09:46,040 --> 02:09:49,720
Speaker 7: abuse at this site, as well as other Israeli detention facilities,

2426
02:09:50,040 --> 02:09:53,200
Speaker 7: including the beatings and the use of an electric probe.

2427
02:09:54,000 --> 02:09:56,960
Speaker 7: An Israeli soldier who served at this site also disclosed

2428
02:09:56,960 --> 02:09:59,560
Speaker 7: to The New York Times that his fellow soldiers often

2429
02:09:59,640 --> 02:10:03,560
Speaker 7: bragged about beating detainees, and he observed many instances of

2430
02:10:03,640 --> 02:10:07,280
Speaker 7: such treatment. He was speaking on condition of anonymity to

2431
02:10:07,360 --> 02:10:10,440
Speaker 7: avoid prosecution, but he said a detainee had been taking

2432
02:10:10,520 --> 02:10:13,680
Speaker 7: for treatment at the site's makeshift field hospital with a

2433
02:10:13,760 --> 02:10:17,040
Speaker 7: bone that had been broken during his detention, while another

2434
02:10:17,160 --> 02:10:20,480
Speaker 7: person was briefly taken out of sight and then returned

2435
02:10:20,720 --> 02:10:23,960
Speaker 7: with bleeding around his rib cage. I strongly urge you

2436
02:10:24,120 --> 02:10:26,720
Speaker 7: to read the New York Times piece in full. It

2437
02:10:26,840 --> 02:10:30,040
Speaker 7: details the most horrific things I've read in recent memory.

2438
02:10:31,160 --> 02:10:31,560
Speaker 5: I would be.

2439
02:10:31,600 --> 02:10:34,200
Speaker 7: Remiss to not mention at least a few of them,

2440
02:10:34,360 --> 02:10:38,160
Speaker 7: just to understand the severity. But this report essentially proves

2441
02:10:38,360 --> 02:10:43,000
Speaker 7: that Palestinians are experiencing sexual violence and have experienced sexual

2442
02:10:43,160 --> 02:10:49,440
Speaker 7: violence in Israeli prisons. This is one example. Mister el Hamloui,

2443
02:10:49,680 --> 02:10:53,080
Speaker 7: a senior nurse, said a female officer had ordered two

2444
02:10:53,200 --> 02:10:56,720
Speaker 7: soldiers to lift him up and press his rectum against

2445
02:10:56,760 --> 02:11:00,280
Speaker 7: a metal stick that was fixed to the ground. He

2446
02:11:00,400 --> 02:11:03,760
Speaker 7: said the stick penetrated his rectum for roughly five seconds,

2447
02:11:03,920 --> 02:11:07,120
Speaker 7: causing it to bleed and leaving him in unbearable pain.

2448
02:11:07,960 --> 02:11:12,120
Speaker 7: A leaked draft of the UNRWA report detailed at interview

2449
02:11:12,240 --> 02:11:15,080
Speaker 7: that gave a similar account. It cited a forty one

2450
02:11:15,200 --> 02:11:18,280
Speaker 7: year old detainee who said that interrogators made him sit

2451
02:11:18,400 --> 02:11:21,520
Speaker 7: on something like a hot metal stick that felt like fire,

2452
02:11:22,040 --> 02:11:24,920
Speaker 7: and he said that another detainee died after they put

2453
02:11:25,040 --> 02:11:29,879
Speaker 7: the electric stick up his anus. Doctor Elhemlaui also recalled

2454
02:11:29,920 --> 02:11:32,840
Speaker 7: being forced to sit in a chair wired with electricity.

2455
02:11:33,360 --> 02:11:36,560
Speaker 7: He said he was shocked so often that after initially

2456
02:11:36,760 --> 02:11:41,760
Speaker 7: urinating uncontrollably, he then stopped urnating for several days. He

2457
02:11:41,880 --> 02:11:44,320
Speaker 7: said that he too had been forced to wear nothing

2458
02:11:44,360 --> 02:11:47,200
Speaker 7: but a diaper to stop him from soiling the floor.

2459
02:11:47,960 --> 02:11:51,680
Speaker 7: Ibrahim Shaheen, thirty eight, a truck driver, He said he

2460
02:11:51,800 --> 02:11:54,600
Speaker 7: was shocked roughly half a dozen times while sitting in

2461
02:11:54,680 --> 02:11:58,680
Speaker 7: a chair. Officers had accused him of concealing information about

2462
02:11:58,680 --> 02:12:01,720
Speaker 7: the location of dead hostage, which ended up having no

2463
02:12:01,840 --> 02:12:05,280
Speaker 7: connection to him at all. Another man, mister Beckett, said

2464
02:12:05,320 --> 02:12:07,120
Speaker 7: that he was also forced to sit in a chair

2465
02:12:07,320 --> 02:12:10,680
Speaker 7: wired with electricity, sending a current pulsing through his body

2466
02:12:11,000 --> 02:12:15,160
Speaker 7: that made him pass out. Mister Beckett also said, along

2467
02:12:15,200 --> 02:12:18,720
Speaker 7: with other detainees that corroborated this, he only received roughly

2468
02:12:18,840 --> 02:12:23,320
Speaker 7: three meager snacks on most days, mostly bred with small

2469
02:12:23,400 --> 02:12:27,560
Speaker 7: quantities of cheese or jam or tuna. The military said

2470
02:12:27,600 --> 02:12:30,840
Speaker 7: the food provisions had been approved by an authorized nutritionist

2471
02:12:30,920 --> 02:12:34,120
Speaker 7: in order to maintain their health, but according to several

2472
02:12:34,160 --> 02:12:37,240
Speaker 7: of these detainees, that's not nearly enough, and they lost

2473
02:12:37,320 --> 02:12:41,760
Speaker 7: more than forty pounds during their detention. Again, I urge

2474
02:12:41,800 --> 02:12:44,880
Speaker 7: you to read the report in full. It needs more

2475
02:12:44,880 --> 02:12:49,440
Speaker 7: attention than is getting. But it is horrific and this

2476
02:12:49,600 --> 02:12:54,160
Speaker 7: is proof of the vile mistreatment of Palestinians. And it's

2477
02:12:54,480 --> 02:12:56,760
Speaker 7: from the New York Times. If you need a source

2478
02:12:56,800 --> 02:12:59,040
Speaker 7: that you quote unquote trust more than an El Jazeera

2479
02:12:59,160 --> 02:13:01,440
Speaker 7: or something which makes most But for those who do

2480
02:13:02,560 --> 02:13:16,000
Speaker 7: there it is Now, let's go back to the topic

2481
02:13:16,040 --> 02:13:18,760
Speaker 7: at hand. We were talking about the hostages and how

2482
02:13:18,800 --> 02:13:21,720
Speaker 7: Hamas had offered many times in the past to release

2483
02:13:21,760 --> 02:13:25,880
Speaker 7: all the hostages in exchange for releasing Palestinian prisoners, and

2484
02:13:26,000 --> 02:13:30,040
Speaker 7: despite Hamasa's offers, Israel has never agreed to any deal

2485
02:13:30,400 --> 02:13:35,120
Speaker 7: which involves the release of all Israeli hostages. On October ninth,

2486
02:13:35,440 --> 02:13:39,600
Speaker 7: two days after October seventh, Hamas offered to release all

2487
02:13:39,680 --> 02:13:43,000
Speaker 7: the civilian hostages in exchange for the io F not

2488
02:13:43,360 --> 02:13:47,840
Speaker 7: entering the Gaza Strip, but Israel rejected that offer, and

2489
02:13:47,960 --> 02:13:51,280
Speaker 7: many hostages have died since then, which could have been

2490
02:13:51,400 --> 02:13:56,440
Speaker 7: avoided if Israel cared. A few stats, one hundred and

2491
02:13:56,560 --> 02:13:59,800
Speaker 7: five Israeli hostages were freed via a temporary ceasefire, and

2492
02:13:59,800 --> 02:14:03,320
Speaker 7: no November of last year, four other hostages were released

2493
02:14:03,320 --> 02:14:07,520
Speaker 7: by Hamas. Three hostages were killed by IOF quote friendly

2494
02:14:07,640 --> 02:14:11,000
Speaker 7: fire because the IOF considered them a threat as they

2495
02:14:11,040 --> 02:14:15,760
Speaker 7: were waving white flags. During four Israeli quote rescue missions,

2496
02:14:16,320 --> 02:14:20,240
Speaker 7: one hostage was killed one soldier was saved in what

2497
02:14:20,400 --> 02:14:24,160
Speaker 7: Israel called Operation Golden Hand. On February twelfth of this year,

2498
02:14:24,640 --> 02:14:28,400
Speaker 7: two hostages were saved and at least ninety four Palestinians

2499
02:14:28,520 --> 02:14:31,680
Speaker 7: were killed, and then on June eighth, what is now

2500
02:14:31,800 --> 02:14:36,120
Speaker 7: being called Operation Are None, four Israeli hostages were rescued

2501
02:14:36,320 --> 02:14:39,880
Speaker 7: and at least two hundred and seventy four Palestinians were killed.

2502
02:14:40,680 --> 02:14:44,360
Speaker 7: In a statement released after the attack, Hamas said, in

2503
02:14:44,480 --> 02:14:48,160
Speaker 7: exchange for them the four Israeli hostages, your own army

2504
02:14:48,320 --> 02:14:51,200
Speaker 7: killed three of your own captives in the same attack,

2505
02:14:51,680 --> 02:14:55,840
Speaker 7: one of them holding a US citizenship. And it must

2506
02:14:55,880 --> 02:14:58,720
Speaker 7: be mentioned that the Israeli attacks on Leisa have also

2507
02:14:58,840 --> 02:15:01,880
Speaker 7: killed an unknown number of hostages and have mass captivity,

2508
02:15:02,240 --> 02:15:05,360
Speaker 7: as well as the at least thirty seven thousand Palestinians

2509
02:15:05,440 --> 02:15:09,480
Speaker 7: killed since October seventh. Relentlessly bombing a tiny strip of

2510
02:15:09,600 --> 02:15:13,440
Speaker 7: land or Israel knows its hostages are located, doesn't really

2511
02:15:13,520 --> 02:15:16,360
Speaker 7: indicate that Israel gives a shit about the lives of

2512
02:15:16,400 --> 02:15:20,360
Speaker 7: the hostages. The hostages are pawns being used in a

2513
02:15:20,440 --> 02:15:25,320
Speaker 7: disgusting political game. And I have seen several unhinged and

2514
02:15:25,520 --> 02:15:29,200
Speaker 7: deranged comments about this latest operation, which again killed two

2515
02:15:29,280 --> 02:15:32,920
Speaker 7: hundred seventy four Palestinians, including children, in the process of

2516
02:15:33,000 --> 02:15:37,920
Speaker 7: saving four hostages. The comments range and severity and psychopathy

2517
02:15:38,200 --> 02:15:40,480
Speaker 7: but a lot of them are basically saying how else

2518
02:15:40,520 --> 02:15:43,400
Speaker 7: were they supposed to get the hostages back? And Israel

2519
02:15:43,480 --> 02:15:46,120
Speaker 7: must rescue its people by any means necessary, and that

2520
02:15:46,360 --> 02:15:48,200
Speaker 7: this is what you get when you mess with Israel.

2521
02:15:49,360 --> 02:15:52,440
Speaker 7: But after reading the previous numbers, it is an absolute

2522
02:15:52,560 --> 02:15:55,720
Speaker 7: fact that the only mass release of hostages has come

2523
02:15:55,840 --> 02:16:00,280
Speaker 7: through ceasefire and prisoner exchanges. More hostages have been killed

2524
02:16:00,280 --> 02:16:04,040
Speaker 7: by the Israeli army then rescued by them. A ceasefire

2525
02:16:04,120 --> 02:16:08,120
Speaker 7: deal means freed hostages without mass death. And so if

2526
02:16:08,240 --> 02:16:11,680
Speaker 7: Israel really cared about the lives of these hostages, why

2527
02:16:11,840 --> 02:16:14,800
Speaker 7: on earth wouldn't they agree to a deal that can

2528
02:16:14,880 --> 02:16:18,160
Speaker 7: guarantee their safety. I want to take a quick tangent

2529
02:16:18,320 --> 02:16:20,760
Speaker 7: only to mention that the number of Palestinians killed in

2530
02:16:20,920 --> 02:16:24,959
Speaker 7: Raze is most likely far, far greater than the reported

2531
02:16:25,040 --> 02:16:28,280
Speaker 7: number because the infrastructure that was used to document the

2532
02:16:28,360 --> 02:16:31,800
Speaker 7: death toll has been decimated, along with nearly everything else

2533
02:16:31,920 --> 02:16:35,480
Speaker 7: in Lessee. The number thirty seven thousand also does not

2534
02:16:35,600 --> 02:16:39,600
Speaker 7: include the thousands and thousands of Palestinians buried underneath rubble

2535
02:16:39,840 --> 02:16:43,720
Speaker 7: who are unable to be found nor retrieved. The Health

2536
02:16:43,800 --> 02:16:47,640
Speaker 7: Ministry's director of International Cooperation in the West Bank. Doctor

2537
02:16:47,760 --> 02:16:52,119
Speaker 7: Yassir Bozzia says he works closely with Ministry colleagues in Raze.

2538
02:16:52,720 --> 02:16:55,200
Speaker 7: When he spoke with NPR in late January from his

2539
02:16:55,240 --> 02:16:58,640
Speaker 7: office in Ramalala, he said and estimated ten thousand people

2540
02:16:58,760 --> 02:17:01,800
Speaker 7: were missing and presumed dead under the rubble in Rasee,

2541
02:17:02,640 --> 02:17:05,840
Speaker 7: but even that number was low. It's like a snowball,

2542
02:17:05,920 --> 02:17:09,320
Speaker 7: he said. It's only an estimation. The actual number is

2543
02:17:09,560 --> 02:17:13,760
Speaker 7: much much higher. Bozia and doctors Andrezze say the death

2544
02:17:13,840 --> 02:17:17,320
Speaker 7: count published by the Health Ministry also largely excludes people

2545
02:17:17,360 --> 02:17:20,520
Speaker 7: who have died from a lack of adequate treatment, disease,

2546
02:17:20,840 --> 02:17:24,200
Speaker 7: and other impacts from the war, like hunger. The death

2547
02:17:24,320 --> 02:17:29,200
Speaker 7: toll only includes people killed by the occupation bombardment, he said.

2548
02:17:29,800 --> 02:17:33,279
Speaker 7: The Health Ministry describes its casualty figures as those resulting

2549
02:17:33,400 --> 02:17:37,440
Speaker 7: from Israeli aggression. Bozzias is a colleague in Raze, told

2550
02:17:37,520 --> 02:17:39,720
Speaker 7: him that the only way to really know how many

2551
02:17:39,760 --> 02:17:42,120
Speaker 7: people have died is to count the number of people

2552
02:17:42,280 --> 02:17:46,400
Speaker 7: still alive compared with the population of Raze before October seventh.

2553
02:17:47,120 --> 02:17:50,480
Speaker 7: He said that because of the continued brutal genocide going

2554
02:17:50,520 --> 02:17:53,760
Speaker 7: on in Rasee, it is impossible to have the real number.

2555
02:17:54,480 --> 02:17:57,480
Speaker 7: It will only be revealed after the violence has stopped.

2556
02:17:58,720 --> 02:18:01,160
Speaker 7: The death toll also does not make clear how many

2557
02:18:01,240 --> 02:18:04,920
Speaker 7: militants are among the dead. Israel says its forces have

2558
02:18:05,040 --> 02:18:08,360
Speaker 7: killed more than ten thousand fighters in Razze, but Israel

2559
02:18:08,400 --> 02:18:11,280
Speaker 7: has also not provided any sort of evidence or detailed

2560
02:18:11,280 --> 02:18:14,880
Speaker 7: information to back up its estimate. In every interview, every

2561
02:18:15,000 --> 02:18:18,720
Speaker 7: Israeli correspondent or spokesperson has given they always given number

2562
02:18:18,800 --> 02:18:22,000
Speaker 7: for the estimated fighters or terrorists killed in Razze, but

2563
02:18:22,080 --> 02:18:25,000
Speaker 7: they're very unsure about how many civilians have been killed.

2564
02:18:25,480 --> 02:18:27,480
Speaker 7: And now to go back to the US peace plan

2565
02:18:27,600 --> 02:18:31,080
Speaker 7: that is basically identical to previous peace plans proposed by

2566
02:18:31,200 --> 02:18:35,199
Speaker 7: and agree to buy Hamas. What does this US plan propose?

2567
02:18:36,240 --> 02:18:39,880
Speaker 7: This plan has three stages. The first stage proposes to

2568
02:18:40,040 --> 02:18:43,480
Speaker 7: involve a six week ceasefire, during which the Israeli army

2569
02:18:43,520 --> 02:18:47,560
Speaker 7: will withdraw from the populated areas of Razze. Hostages, including

2570
02:18:47,600 --> 02:18:50,840
Speaker 7: the elderly and women, would be exchanged for hundreds of

2571
02:18:50,920 --> 02:18:55,279
Speaker 7: Palestinian prisoners. Civilians would also return to all of Braze

2572
02:18:55,680 --> 02:18:59,920
Speaker 7: with six hundred trucks carrying humanitarian aid flooding the enclaved

2573
02:19:00,040 --> 02:19:03,680
Speaker 7: daily Biden said. The second phase would see Hamas and

2574
02:19:03,840 --> 02:19:08,640
Speaker 7: Israel negotiate terms for a permanent end to hostilities. Biden

2575
02:19:08,720 --> 02:19:12,080
Speaker 7: said the cease fire will still continue as long as

2576
02:19:12,200 --> 02:19:17,440
Speaker 7: negotiations continue. In the third phase, a permanent ceasefire would follow,

2577
02:19:17,760 --> 02:19:22,120
Speaker 7: facilitating the reconstruction of the Resids Strip, including sixty percent

2578
02:19:22,200 --> 02:19:26,920
Speaker 7: of clinics, schools, universities, and religious buildings damaged or destroyed

2579
02:19:26,959 --> 02:19:31,560
Speaker 7: by Israeli forces. This plan is nearly identical to a

2580
02:19:31,680 --> 02:19:35,120
Speaker 7: previous plan that Hamas had already agreed to on May sixth,

2581
02:19:35,400 --> 02:19:38,640
Speaker 7: a deal which Israel ended up rejecting. We will talk

2582
02:19:38,720 --> 02:19:41,400
Speaker 7: more about that deal later on, but for now, let's

2583
02:19:41,440 --> 02:19:44,520
Speaker 7: focus on the US's pleasiarized version of this plan and

2584
02:19:44,680 --> 02:19:48,080
Speaker 7: who supports it. But first let's take an ad break

2585
02:19:48,240 --> 02:20:01,560
Speaker 7: and we'll be read back, Okay, And we are back.

2586
02:20:02,000 --> 02:20:05,080
Speaker 7: So soon after the announcement of the US deal, Hamas

2587
02:20:05,160 --> 02:20:08,160
Speaker 7: said that it views the proposals in this deal positively.

2588
02:20:09,080 --> 02:20:13,880
Speaker 7: This week, US Secretary of State Anthony Blincoln o'tool arrived

2589
02:20:13,879 --> 02:20:16,080
Speaker 7: in the Middle East on his latest trip to the region,

2590
02:20:16,320 --> 02:20:19,800
Speaker 7: which he said will focus on Washington's Gaza truce proposal

2591
02:20:20,080 --> 02:20:23,600
Speaker 7: and the future of the Palestinian territory. B Lincoln met

2592
02:20:23,640 --> 02:20:27,720
Speaker 7: Egyptian President Elssi and Cairo on Monday, repeating US calls

2593
02:20:27,760 --> 02:20:31,480
Speaker 7: for Hamas to accept the true deal. Speaking to reporters

2594
02:20:31,560 --> 02:20:35,960
Speaker 7: before leaving Egypt, b Lincoln squarely blamed Hamas for prolonging

2595
02:20:36,080 --> 02:20:39,720
Speaker 7: the quote unquote war, saying that Hamas is an outlier

2596
02:20:39,800 --> 02:20:42,240
Speaker 7: in the region for not agreeing to the US deal.

2597
02:20:42,879 --> 02:20:47,080
Speaker 7: He told reporters my message to governments throughout the region,

2598
02:20:47,320 --> 02:20:50,199
Speaker 7: to people throughout the region, if you want to cease fire,

2599
02:20:50,520 --> 02:20:55,520
Speaker 7: press Hamas to say yes. Blincoln arrived in Israel later

2600
02:20:55,600 --> 02:20:58,440
Speaker 7: on that same day and met with Nan Yahoo. He

2601
02:20:58,520 --> 02:21:01,320
Speaker 7: will further hold talks and thought in Jordan this week.

2602
02:21:02,160 --> 02:21:06,120
Speaker 7: The State Department said. Blinkn reaffirmed the quote ironclad US

2603
02:21:06,200 --> 02:21:10,560
Speaker 7: commitment to Israel's security during his meeting with Nanyahu. A

2604
02:21:10,720 --> 02:21:13,920
Speaker 7: curious note is that while Blinkn portrayed the truce plan

2605
02:21:14,000 --> 02:21:17,680
Speaker 7: as Biden's proposal, when Biden made the deal public initially,

2606
02:21:17,840 --> 02:21:21,040
Speaker 7: he said it was an Israeli plan. This could be

2607
02:21:21,240 --> 02:21:24,360
Speaker 7: just a little slip because Biden is very old, or

2608
02:21:24,440 --> 02:21:26,560
Speaker 7: it could be a slip that just confirms what we've

2609
02:21:26,600 --> 02:21:29,320
Speaker 7: all known to be the case all along, that the

2610
02:21:29,480 --> 02:21:32,039
Speaker 7: US and Israel are one and the same, especially when

2611
02:21:32,080 --> 02:21:35,560
Speaker 7: it comes to their political interests in military power, and

2612
02:21:35,680 --> 02:21:39,359
Speaker 7: while US officials have insisted that Israel agreed to this proposal,

2613
02:21:39,879 --> 02:21:43,600
Speaker 7: various Israeli officials, including the n YAHOO, have vowed to

2614
02:21:43,680 --> 02:21:48,959
Speaker 7: continue fighting until the elimination of Hamas. Just days before

2615
02:21:49,000 --> 02:21:52,680
Speaker 7: Biden announced his initiative, a top Israeli officials said the

2616
02:21:52,760 --> 02:21:56,320
Speaker 7: military would fight in Jez until at least the end

2617
02:21:56,480 --> 02:22:00,200
Speaker 7: of the year. On the other hand, Hamas has said

2618
02:22:00,240 --> 02:22:02,039
Speaker 7: that it will only agree to a deal that would

2619
02:22:02,120 --> 02:22:04,280
Speaker 7: lead to a lasting end to the war and the

2620
02:22:04,400 --> 02:22:08,920
Speaker 7: full withdrawal of Israeli troops from Raze. Hamas reiterated its

2621
02:22:08,959 --> 02:22:12,520
Speaker 7: position on Monday after its political chief Ismael Haniyeh, met

2622
02:22:12,560 --> 02:22:16,240
Speaker 7: with officials from the Palestinian Islamic Jihad, a smaller armed

2623
02:22:16,280 --> 02:22:21,039
Speaker 7: group in Duha. Hamas said in a statement the two

2624
02:22:21,160 --> 02:22:25,760
Speaker 7: delegations discussed the indirect negotiations and efforts to end the war,

2625
02:22:26,280 --> 02:22:31,199
Speaker 7: stressing that any agreement must include a permanent ceasefire, complete

2626
02:22:31,200 --> 02:22:35,600
Speaker 7: withdrawal from the Gaza Strip, reconstruction, ending the siege, and

2627
02:22:35,760 --> 02:22:40,640
Speaker 7: a serious prisoner's exchange. Hamas previously called for a explicit

2628
02:22:40,720 --> 02:22:45,360
Speaker 7: commitment from Israel to a lasting ceasefire, and despite the

2629
02:22:45,480 --> 02:22:49,600
Speaker 7: lack of clarity in the Israeli position, Biden administration officials

2630
02:22:49,680 --> 02:22:53,360
Speaker 7: have repeatedly said that Hamas is the only hurdle to

2631
02:22:53,560 --> 02:22:57,040
Speaker 7: ending the war in Gaza. The US blaming Hamas for

2632
02:22:57,200 --> 02:22:59,760
Speaker 7: prolonging what it calls a quote unquote war again not

2633
02:22:59,800 --> 02:23:04,240
Speaker 7: a war a genocide is ridiculous. Hamas has accepted previous

2634
02:23:04,320 --> 02:23:08,360
Speaker 7: peace deals. It has offered previous peace deals. Israel has

2635
02:23:08,400 --> 02:23:11,119
Speaker 7: been the one to reject them, and then the US

2636
02:23:11,240 --> 02:23:14,920
Speaker 7: comes along and just repackages one of these previously agreed

2637
02:23:14,959 --> 02:23:18,440
Speaker 7: on deals that Hamas had endorsed, and has the audacity

2638
02:23:18,520 --> 02:23:23,879
Speaker 7: to then blame Hamas for obstructing peace. Give me a break. Additionally,

2639
02:23:24,080 --> 02:23:26,880
Speaker 7: the US truce plan does not outline plans for the

2640
02:23:27,040 --> 02:23:30,160
Speaker 7: future of Gaza after the war, but the US government

2641
02:23:30,200 --> 02:23:32,400
Speaker 7: has said that it would not accept Hamas rule in

2642
02:23:32,480 --> 02:23:36,600
Speaker 7: the territory. The Biden administration says it wants a quote

2643
02:23:36,760 --> 02:23:41,520
Speaker 7: reformed Palestinian Authority aka the PA to eventually govern Gaza,

2644
02:23:42,160 --> 02:23:45,519
Speaker 7: but the Israeli government has ruled out allowing the occupied

2645
02:23:45,560 --> 02:23:49,760
Speaker 7: West Bank based PA to govern Huzzi with Nan Yahoo

2646
02:23:49,920 --> 02:23:52,360
Speaker 7: like in k Fata, the dominant faction in the PA

2647
02:23:52,800 --> 02:23:57,160
Speaker 7: to Hamas. Other support for the plan has come from

2648
02:23:57,400 --> 02:23:59,960
Speaker 7: some Israeli politicians, as well as the families of the

2649
02:24:00,120 --> 02:24:05,280
Speaker 7: hostages and the international community. Benny Gantz, a centrist member

2650
02:24:05,360 --> 02:24:08,959
Speaker 7: of Israel's three man war Cabinet and Prime Minister Benjamin

2651
02:24:09,240 --> 02:24:13,600
Speaker 7: Yahu's principal rival, spoke positively of the proposal and asked

2652
02:24:13,640 --> 02:24:16,320
Speaker 7: his two colleagues in the war cabinet, Nan Yahoo and

2653
02:24:16,360 --> 02:24:20,200
Speaker 7: Defense Minister Yoev Galant, to convene to discuss the quote

2654
02:24:20,280 --> 02:24:24,040
Speaker 7: next steps. Gance had previously threatened to leave the cabinet

2655
02:24:24,080 --> 02:24:26,840
Speaker 7: by June eighth if no plan for Gaza beyond the

2656
02:24:26,920 --> 02:24:30,240
Speaker 7: war had been agreed on, and on Sunday, June ninth,

2657
02:24:30,680 --> 02:24:35,360
Speaker 7: he officially announced his resignation. Gans's resignation does not immediately

2658
02:24:35,480 --> 02:24:38,800
Speaker 7: pose a threat to Natanyahu, who still controls a majority

2659
02:24:38,879 --> 02:24:42,000
Speaker 7: coalition in Parliament, but it does mean that the Israeli

2660
02:24:42,120 --> 02:24:45,720
Speaker 7: leader becomes more heavily reliant on his far right allies.

2661
02:24:46,520 --> 02:24:49,680
Speaker 7: Gantz said that the Enyahu was making quote total victory

2662
02:24:49,720 --> 02:24:52,560
Speaker 7: impossible and that the government needs to put a return

2663
02:24:52,680 --> 02:24:56,040
Speaker 7: of the hostages seized on October seventh by Hamas above

2664
02:24:56,240 --> 02:25:00,600
Speaker 7: political survival. Gans is a popular former military chief, and

2665
02:25:00,680 --> 02:25:03,440
Speaker 7: he joined the n Yahoo's government shortly after the Hamas

2666
02:25:03,480 --> 02:25:07,160
Speaker 7: attack in a show of unity. His presence also boosted

2667
02:25:07,280 --> 02:25:11,520
Speaker 7: Israel's credibility with its international partners. Gance has good working

2668
02:25:11,600 --> 02:25:15,760
Speaker 7: relations with US officials. Ganz canceled a planned news conference

2669
02:25:15,840 --> 02:25:18,840
Speaker 7: the night of June eighth after the Forestraeli hostages were

2670
02:25:18,879 --> 02:25:21,880
Speaker 7: rescued from Gaza earlier in the day, which again was

2671
02:25:22,000 --> 02:25:27,080
Speaker 7: Israel's largest operations since October. Another reminder that two hundred

2672
02:25:27,120 --> 02:25:29,800
Speaker 7: and seventy four palest Indians, including children, were killed in

2673
02:25:29,840 --> 02:25:33,680
Speaker 7: the assault. Another Israeli politician who supported the US peace

2674
02:25:33,760 --> 02:25:37,320
Speaker 7: plan was opposition leader Yard Lapid, who also promised to

2675
02:25:37,320 --> 02:25:40,880
Speaker 7: support the plan, pledging support of his party yesh Atid,

2676
02:25:41,160 --> 02:25:44,360
Speaker 7: which translates from Hebrew to there is a future if

2677
02:25:44,480 --> 02:25:49,760
Speaker 7: those from ultranationalists and far right parties withdraw support. United

2678
02:25:49,840 --> 02:25:54,160
Speaker 7: Nations Secretary General Antonia Gutierrez also endorsed the plan, as

2679
02:25:54,280 --> 02:25:58,120
Speaker 7: have many of Israel's political allies, including the UK and Germany.

2680
02:25:59,120 --> 02:26:02,320
Speaker 7: So who doesn't like the plan. Much of the opposition

2681
02:26:02,480 --> 02:26:05,560
Speaker 7: to the peace plan has come from within the Israeli cabinet,

2682
02:26:06,360 --> 02:26:09,600
Speaker 7: n Enyahu said any initiative that did not include a

2683
02:26:09,760 --> 02:26:13,520
Speaker 7: quote elimination of Hamas's capacity to govern and make war

2684
02:26:13,879 --> 02:26:17,240
Speaker 7: was a non starter. In his announcement on Friday May

2685
02:26:17,360 --> 02:26:21,039
Speaker 7: thirty first, Biden seemed to indicate that he regarded Hamas's

2686
02:26:21,080 --> 02:26:24,280
Speaker 7: presence within Gaza to have been so downgraded that a

2687
02:26:24,360 --> 02:26:29,720
Speaker 7: repeat of October seventh was impossible. As expected, the ultranationalists

2688
02:26:29,800 --> 02:26:32,880
Speaker 7: and extreme right members of the nyahu's right wing coalition,

2689
02:26:33,280 --> 02:26:37,240
Speaker 7: which includes it Tamar Bengavie and Bezileel Simotric, threatened to

2690
02:26:37,360 --> 02:26:40,480
Speaker 7: withdraw from the government and cause its collapse if the

2691
02:26:40,560 --> 02:26:45,560
Speaker 7: proposals were accepted. So as far as Israel's politics are concerned,

2692
02:26:45,879 --> 02:26:48,440
Speaker 7: it seems like the outcome may end up depending on

2693
02:26:48,520 --> 02:26:54,200
Speaker 7: what El Jazeira describes as quote parliamentary arithmetic. The far

2694
02:26:54,400 --> 02:26:58,720
Speaker 7: right in ultranationalist parties hold fourteen seats, while Ganza's block

2695
02:26:58,800 --> 02:27:01,920
Speaker 7: only has eight seats. Meeting the far right has far

2696
02:27:02,080 --> 02:27:04,640
Speaker 7: more influence on a prime minister who wants to stay

2697
02:27:04,680 --> 02:27:09,480
Speaker 7: in power. As for Lapid, his seventeen seats are offered

2698
02:27:09,520 --> 02:27:12,840
Speaker 7: as support only in what pertains to the peace proposals.

2699
02:27:14,280 --> 02:27:17,320
Speaker 7: This leaves that n YAHOO reliant on the far right block.

2700
02:27:18,440 --> 02:27:21,119
Speaker 7: As far as the deal being accepted, that is still

2701
02:27:21,280 --> 02:27:25,280
Speaker 7: not clear. Despite what the US says. The families of

2702
02:27:25,360 --> 02:27:28,240
Speaker 7: Israeli hostages are putting pressure on the government to accept

2703
02:27:28,280 --> 02:27:31,560
Speaker 7: the deal, as are some parts of Israel's political class,

2704
02:27:32,520 --> 02:27:35,320
Speaker 7: but pressures to reject the deal are just as strong,

2705
02:27:35,560 --> 02:27:38,240
Speaker 7: and it will remain to be seen whether Natanyahu chooses

2706
02:27:38,280 --> 02:27:41,840
Speaker 7: his own survival or the return of the hostages. But

2707
02:27:41,959 --> 02:27:44,680
Speaker 7: if one thing is clear, it is that Netanyahu does

2708
02:27:44,760 --> 02:27:48,480
Speaker 7: not really care about the hostages because the IOF under

2709
02:27:48,520 --> 02:27:52,080
Speaker 7: his command, continues to bombard areas where the hostages can

2710
02:27:52,160 --> 02:27:54,640
Speaker 7: be held. And may remind you that the IOWEF have

2711
02:27:54,720 --> 02:27:58,440
Speaker 7: already killed Israeli hostages that they have mistakenly identified as threats.

2712
02:27:59,280 --> 02:28:03,760
Speaker 7: Speaking of threats, I'm kidding. There is no ad break

2713
02:28:03,800 --> 02:28:05,600
Speaker 7: and there is no threat. That's the end of part one,

2714
02:28:05,840 --> 02:28:07,680
Speaker 7: and if you want to listen to part two, tune

2715
02:28:07,720 --> 02:28:10,560
Speaker 7: in tomorrow. Talking about the history of Hamas and how

2716
02:28:10,680 --> 02:28:29,440
Speaker 7: we got here. So yeah, see e then three Palestine, Hello,

2717
02:28:29,560 --> 02:28:31,760
Speaker 7: and welcome back to it could happen here. This is

2718
02:28:31,920 --> 02:28:35,840
Speaker 7: Sharen and today we are continuing our conversation from yesterday

2719
02:28:36,200 --> 02:28:39,400
Speaker 7: where we talked about the US proposed peace deal for

2720
02:28:39,560 --> 02:28:43,760
Speaker 7: Hamas and Israel that looks suspiciously like a deal Hamas

2721
02:28:43,800 --> 02:28:45,800
Speaker 7: had already agreed to just a few weeks before that,

2722
02:28:46,320 --> 02:28:49,600
Speaker 7: and Israel did not agree to. We had ended part

2723
02:28:49,640 --> 02:28:53,080
Speaker 7: one talking about how the IOF literally killed their own

2724
02:28:53,120 --> 02:28:56,640
Speaker 7: hostages when they mistakenly thought they were threats, and I

2725
02:28:56,800 --> 02:28:59,720
Speaker 7: ended saying speaking of threats, and I'm going to continue

2726
02:28:59,800 --> 02:29:04,360
Speaker 7: because that's what professionals do. So since October seventh, Israel

2727
02:29:04,440 --> 02:29:08,160
Speaker 7: has described Hamas as an existential threat, saying that it

2728
02:29:08,240 --> 02:29:11,080
Speaker 7: needs to destroy the group and won't stop the violence

2729
02:29:11,120 --> 02:29:14,119
Speaker 7: in Gaza until it does so. But I would argue

2730
02:29:14,200 --> 02:29:17,320
Speaker 7: that most people who are pro Israel or Western Zionists

2731
02:29:17,360 --> 02:29:20,920
Speaker 7: in general don't actually know anything about Hamas other than

2732
02:29:21,000 --> 02:29:23,120
Speaker 7: thinking they're this big, bad evil that has to be

2733
02:29:23,200 --> 02:29:26,200
Speaker 7: eradicated by the quote only democracy in the Middle East,

2734
02:29:26,520 --> 02:29:28,600
Speaker 7: which I hope by this point people realize is a

2735
02:29:28,680 --> 02:29:32,280
Speaker 7: sick joke. Hamas is suddenly being talked about on every

2736
02:29:32,360 --> 02:29:35,920
Speaker 7: news channel, and anything even remotely pro Palestine is now

2737
02:29:36,040 --> 02:29:39,360
Speaker 7: labeled as pro Hamas, when most people in this country,

2738
02:29:39,400 --> 02:29:41,640
Speaker 7: I would argue, most likely had never even heard of

2739
02:29:41,680 --> 02:29:47,039
Speaker 7: Hamas before October seventh. Labeling something as pro Hamas truly

2740
02:29:47,480 --> 02:29:51,200
Speaker 7: just means nothing as far as Israel's concerned, the UN

2741
02:29:51,320 --> 02:29:55,400
Speaker 7: is Hamas. In May, Israel's ambassador to the UN, Galad Erdan,

2742
02:29:55,640 --> 02:29:58,160
Speaker 7: said in an interview with Israel's Army Radio that the

2743
02:29:58,280 --> 02:30:02,440
Speaker 7: UN has quote turned into a collaborator with Hamas, maybe

2744
02:30:02,480 --> 02:30:06,840
Speaker 7: even more than that, a terror organization unto itself. Wow,

2745
02:30:07,840 --> 02:30:10,680
Speaker 7: Israeli leadership has just continued to one up themselves when

2746
02:30:10,760 --> 02:30:13,880
Speaker 7: it comes to saying the most insane fucking shit. And then,

2747
02:30:13,920 --> 02:30:17,400
Speaker 7: according to Zionists, the college campus protests that were calling

2748
02:30:17,480 --> 02:30:20,480
Speaker 7: for a literal end to genocide are also pro Hamas.

2749
02:30:21,240 --> 02:30:24,520
Speaker 7: Earlier this month, a lawsuit was filed in Virginia by

2750
02:30:24,560 --> 02:30:27,560
Speaker 7: a US law firm and an Israeli legal group who

2751
02:30:27,600 --> 02:30:31,160
Speaker 7: have teamed up to suit two organizations involved in recent

2752
02:30:31,280 --> 02:30:35,800
Speaker 7: college campus protests, the American Muslims for Palestine and National

2753
02:30:35,879 --> 02:30:39,720
Speaker 7: Students for Justice in Palestine. They accused these groups of

2754
02:30:39,879 --> 02:30:44,160
Speaker 7: collaborating with Hamas to serve as their quote propaganda division.

2755
02:30:44,240 --> 02:30:47,920
Speaker 7: In the US. Arson of Trowski, the CEO of the

2756
02:30:48,000 --> 02:30:51,400
Speaker 7: International Legal Forum, who was working with this US legal

2757
02:30:51,440 --> 02:30:55,480
Speaker 7: team of Greenberg Taig and the National Jewish Advocacy Center,

2758
02:30:55,959 --> 02:30:58,720
Speaker 7: he called the American Muslims for Palestine and the National

2759
02:30:58,760 --> 02:31:00,960
Speaker 7: Students for Justice in Palestine, as well as all the

2760
02:31:01,040 --> 02:31:05,160
Speaker 7: protesters supporting Palestine, most of whom are students as quote

2761
02:31:05,240 --> 02:31:08,760
Speaker 7: the foot soldiers of Hamas. If I was going to

2762
02:31:08,840 --> 02:31:11,720
Speaker 7: go through everything that Israel and Zionists have labeled US

2763
02:31:11,760 --> 02:31:15,440
Speaker 7: pro Hamas, this episode would never end. But I hope

2764
02:31:15,440 --> 02:31:18,240
Speaker 7: it's clear that this label and accusation isn't based on

2765
02:31:18,360 --> 02:31:21,280
Speaker 7: any real sort of evidence or proof, and it is

2766
02:31:21,400 --> 02:31:24,800
Speaker 7: only a way to scare people into blindly supporting Israel

2767
02:31:24,920 --> 02:31:28,920
Speaker 7: in quote defending itself big quotes there against this growing

2768
02:31:29,040 --> 02:31:33,080
Speaker 7: evil spreading across the globe and invading our campuses, when

2769
02:31:33,160 --> 02:31:37,400
Speaker 7: in reality, there would be no Hamas without Israel. Although

2770
02:31:37,440 --> 02:31:41,120
Speaker 7: Hamas eventually grew into being the most active armed resistance

2771
02:31:41,200 --> 02:31:44,240
Speaker 7: group in Gaza, it definitely didn't start that way and

2772
02:31:44,360 --> 02:31:46,440
Speaker 7: it wouldn't have even had the power to grow the

2773
02:31:46,520 --> 02:31:49,200
Speaker 7: way it did if it weren't for intentional actions by

2774
02:31:49,320 --> 02:31:53,480
Speaker 7: Israeli leadership that started decades ago. Before we get into

2775
02:31:53,560 --> 02:31:55,920
Speaker 7: a timeline of the Resa Hamas peace deals that have

2776
02:31:56,080 --> 02:31:58,520
Speaker 7: led to this very similar deal at the US proposed

2777
02:31:59,040 --> 02:32:01,840
Speaker 7: all deals that again Israel has rejected I want to

2778
02:32:01,879 --> 02:32:04,400
Speaker 7: make sure we at least have an understanding of what Hamas,

2779
02:32:04,440 --> 02:32:08,520
Speaker 7: even is Hamas, which is an Arabic acronym for Islamic

2780
02:32:08,600 --> 02:32:12,040
Speaker 7: resistance movement, would not exist today if it wasn't for Israel.

2781
02:32:12,760 --> 02:32:15,879
Speaker 7: American and Israeli politicians are always saying the same thing,

2782
02:32:16,280 --> 02:32:19,920
Speaker 7: how dangerous and evil Hamas is, without mentioning how Israel

2783
02:32:19,959 --> 02:32:24,080
Speaker 7: itself helped create Hamas. The TLDR of it all is

2784
02:32:24,160 --> 02:32:27,800
Speaker 7: that Israeli's helped turn a bunch of fringe Palestinian Islamists

2785
02:32:27,879 --> 02:32:30,680
Speaker 7: in the late nineteen seventies into one of the world's

2786
02:32:30,760 --> 02:32:34,560
Speaker 7: most notorious militant groups. Is in a conspiracy theory, It's

2787
02:32:34,560 --> 02:32:38,480
Speaker 7: a confirmed fact. Former Israeli officials, such as Brigadier General A.

2788
02:32:38,640 --> 02:32:41,879
Speaker 7: Sak Sagev, who was the Israeli military governor in Gaza

2789
02:32:41,920 --> 02:32:44,800
Speaker 7: in the early nineteen eighties, have openly spoken about this.

2790
02:32:45,600 --> 02:32:48,600
Speaker 7: After his tenure, Segev told a New York Times reporter

2791
02:32:48,800 --> 02:32:52,400
Speaker 7: that he had helped finance the Palestinian Islamist movement as

2792
02:32:52,480 --> 02:32:56,360
Speaker 7: a quote counterweight to secularists and leftists of the Palestine

2793
02:32:56,400 --> 02:33:00,480
Speaker 7: Liberation Organization aka the PLO, as well as the fut Party,

2794
02:33:00,720 --> 02:33:04,360
Speaker 7: which was led by Yaser Arafat. Arafat too referred to

2795
02:33:04,440 --> 02:33:08,920
Speaker 7: Hamas as quote a creature of Israel. Hamas was officially

2796
02:33:09,000 --> 02:33:11,240
Speaker 7: founded in nineteen eighty seven, at the start of the

2797
02:33:11,320 --> 02:33:16,280
Speaker 7: First Palestinian Intefada, or uprising against the Israeli occupation, but

2798
02:33:16,400 --> 02:33:21,160
Speaker 7: its beginnings actually started much earlier. Hama's founder, Sheikh ahmadia Sin,

2799
02:33:21,360 --> 02:33:24,200
Speaker 7: was a member of the Muslim Brotherhood. The Brotherhood had

2800
02:33:24,240 --> 02:33:27,640
Speaker 7: been repressed by Egyptians in Gaza prior to nineteen sixty seven,

2801
02:33:28,160 --> 02:33:31,160
Speaker 7: but once the Israelis invaded and occupied the Gaza Strip,

2802
02:33:31,600 --> 02:33:35,840
Speaker 7: they chose to encourage this group of extremist Islamists. The

2803
02:33:35,959 --> 02:33:38,960
Speaker 7: dominant Palestinian political force in Palestine at the time was

2804
02:33:39,040 --> 02:33:42,160
Speaker 7: the PLO, and it was deemed a threat to Israel,

2805
02:33:42,560 --> 02:33:46,720
Speaker 7: and so Israel sought to undermine its power. The PLO

2806
02:33:47,000 --> 02:33:50,119
Speaker 7: is a nationalist coalition which was centered around the secular

2807
02:33:50,200 --> 02:33:54,800
Speaker 7: FATA party led by Yasser Arafat. By empowering a scene

2808
02:33:54,879 --> 02:33:57,840
Speaker 7: in the Muslim Brotherhood, Israel thought they could divide the

2809
02:33:57,920 --> 02:34:01,480
Speaker 7: occupied Palestinian people and eventually rule over them by playing

2810
02:34:01,560 --> 02:34:08,040
Speaker 7: them against each other secular nationalists versus religious Islamists. In

2811
02:34:08,160 --> 02:34:12,560
Speaker 7: nineteen seventy eight, Yasine wanted to officially register his Islamic Association,

2812
02:34:12,959 --> 02:34:16,520
Speaker 7: which was basically the precursor to present day Hamas. The

2813
02:34:16,680 --> 02:34:19,680
Speaker 7: Israelis jumped on the opportunity to help make this happen.

2814
02:34:20,320 --> 02:34:24,040
Speaker 7: Yasine built and grew a network of Islamists social institutions

2815
02:34:24,080 --> 02:34:28,920
Speaker 7: across Gaza, funded largely by Israel. Avnar Cohen is a

2816
02:34:29,080 --> 02:34:32,400
Speaker 7: former Israeli religious affairs official who worked in Gaza for

2817
02:34:32,480 --> 02:34:35,400
Speaker 7: more than two decades. In two thousand and nine, he

2818
02:34:35,560 --> 02:34:38,959
Speaker 7: told the Wall Street Journal Hamas to my great regret,

2819
02:34:39,440 --> 02:34:44,080
Speaker 7: is Israel's creation. Back in the mid nineteen eighties, Cohen

2820
02:34:44,160 --> 02:34:47,440
Speaker 7: even wrote an official report to his superiors warning them

2821
02:34:47,560 --> 02:34:50,600
Speaker 7: not to play divide and rule in the occupied territories

2822
02:34:50,879 --> 02:34:55,840
Speaker 7: by backing Palestinian Islamists against the Palestinian Secularists. He wrote

2823
02:34:55,840 --> 02:34:59,800
Speaker 7: in his report, I suggest focusing our efforts on finding

2824
02:35:00,320 --> 02:35:05,040
Speaker 7: to break up this monster before reality jumps in our face. Clearly,

2825
02:35:05,200 --> 02:35:08,000
Speaker 7: his superiors did not listen to him, and Hamas was

2826
02:35:08,040 --> 02:35:12,560
Speaker 7: the result. To be clear, Israelis had helped build up

2827
02:35:12,680 --> 02:35:16,119
Speaker 7: a militant strain of extremist political Islam in the form

2828
02:35:16,160 --> 02:35:19,440
Speaker 7: of Hamas and its Muslim Brotherhood precursors and allowed it

2829
02:35:19,600 --> 02:35:22,600
Speaker 7: free reign in order to quiet any chance of progress

2830
02:35:22,680 --> 02:35:26,160
Speaker 7: in Palestine, and then when it became convenient for their

2831
02:35:26,200 --> 02:35:30,480
Speaker 7: desionist narrative, the Israelis tried to bomb, besiege and blockade

2832
02:35:30,480 --> 02:35:34,800
Speaker 7: it out of existence. David Hashem, a former Arabs affairs

2833
02:35:34,879 --> 02:35:37,520
Speaker 7: expert in the Israeli military who was based in President

2834
02:35:37,520 --> 02:35:41,440
Speaker 7: in the nineteen eighties, said the original sin was Israel's

2835
02:35:41,440 --> 02:35:44,960
Speaker 7: support of Ya Seine in the nineteen seventies. He said,

2836
02:35:45,280 --> 02:35:47,440
Speaker 7: when I look back at the chain of events, I

2837
02:35:47,560 --> 02:35:50,600
Speaker 7: think we made a mistake. But at the time, nobody

2838
02:35:50,640 --> 02:35:56,160
Speaker 7: thought about the possible results. Yeah, no shit. The only

2839
02:35:56,240 --> 02:35:59,240
Speaker 7: American politician that I know of who has ever referenced

2840
02:35:59,280 --> 02:36:02,840
Speaker 7: how Israel is responsible for Hamas's creation is Ron Paul.

2841
02:36:03,680 --> 02:36:05,840
Speaker 7: In two thousand and one on the floor of the House,

2842
02:36:06,120 --> 02:36:10,200
Speaker 7: Ron Paul said Hamas was encouraged and really started by

2843
02:36:10,320 --> 02:36:15,600
Speaker 7: Israel because they wanted Hamas to counteract Yasser Arafat. Speaking

2844
02:36:15,640 --> 02:36:18,880
Speaker 7: of Arafat, not only did he himself tell an Italian

2845
02:36:18,959 --> 02:36:22,320
Speaker 7: newspaper that Hamas is a creature of Israel, he also

2846
02:36:22,440 --> 02:36:26,280
Speaker 7: said that the former Israeli Prime Minister Yasakrabien admitted this

2847
02:36:26,400 --> 02:36:30,800
Speaker 7: to him, calling it a quote fatal error. Yasine was

2848
02:36:30,879 --> 02:36:33,800
Speaker 7: eventually assassinated by an Israeli air strike in Gaza on

2849
02:36:33,879 --> 02:36:37,840
Speaker 7: March twenty second, two thousand and four. Sylvan Shalom, former

2850
02:36:37,959 --> 02:36:41,560
Speaker 7: Israeli Vice Prime minister, said after Yasine's death that quote

2851
02:36:41,680 --> 02:36:45,720
Speaker 7: sche Yassin and his organization Hamas are responsible for the

2852
02:36:45,840 --> 02:36:49,760
Speaker 7: killings of more than four hundred Israelis, when actually no

2853
02:36:50,480 --> 02:36:55,440
Speaker 7: Israel is clearly largely responsible. David Long, a former Middle

2854
02:36:55,440 --> 02:36:58,400
Speaker 7: East expert in the US State Department under Ronald Reagan,

2855
02:36:58,720 --> 02:37:02,360
Speaker 7: told journalist Robert dry I thought the Israelis were playing

2856
02:37:02,480 --> 02:37:06,320
Speaker 7: with fire. This, of course, is not a unique development,

2857
02:37:06,560 --> 02:37:09,520
Speaker 7: as there have been dozens of instances of unneeded and

2858
02:37:09,680 --> 02:37:13,760
Speaker 7: malignant US intervention in other countries for its own gain,

2859
02:37:15,440 --> 02:37:18,440
Speaker 7: and since then Hamas has killed far more Israelis than

2860
02:37:18,480 --> 02:37:22,760
Speaker 7: any secular Palestinian militant group. Israel built up ye Scene

2861
02:37:22,879 --> 02:37:26,120
Speaker 7: and Hamas as a rival to Arafat's Fatah, then they

2862
02:37:26,200 --> 02:37:29,480
Speaker 7: killed Yasne, and then they doubled down in making Hamas

2863
02:37:29,760 --> 02:37:33,720
Speaker 7: Israel's worst enemy, an enemy it would use to justify

2864
02:37:33,879 --> 02:37:37,000
Speaker 7: to the entire world that it was not only okay,

2865
02:37:37,160 --> 02:37:41,560
Speaker 7: but necessary to control and massacre millions of Palestinians. In

2866
02:37:41,640 --> 02:37:45,560
Speaker 7: the process of destroying this threat, Israel spent more than

2867
02:37:45,600 --> 02:37:48,920
Speaker 7: twenty years helping build up Hamas and then spent another

2868
02:37:49,040 --> 02:37:53,240
Speaker 7: twenty years trying to destroy it. All of this is

2869
02:37:53,280 --> 02:37:56,360
Speaker 7: to say that, aside from the purposeful assistance from Israel

2870
02:37:56,440 --> 02:37:59,680
Speaker 7: and creating Hamas, that Hamas wouldn't even exist if it

2871
02:37:59,800 --> 02:38:03,240
Speaker 7: was for the Israeli occupation. There would be no resistance

2872
02:38:03,560 --> 02:38:07,680
Speaker 7: because without the ethnic cleansing and forced violent occupation, there

2873
02:38:07,680 --> 02:38:21,400
Speaker 7: would be nothing to resist. In the process of bolstering

2874
02:38:21,440 --> 02:38:25,240
Speaker 7: this militant group, Hamas also became the main armed force

2875
02:38:25,400 --> 02:38:28,840
Speaker 7: behind the Palestinian resistance, and many view Hamas as the

2876
02:38:29,000 --> 02:38:32,680
Speaker 7: only group even attempting to defend Palestinians in the face

2877
02:38:32,720 --> 02:38:37,880
Speaker 7: of Israeli occupation. And the organization itself has changed over

2878
02:38:37,959 --> 02:38:41,240
Speaker 7: the years, especially in the last decade, it seems like

2879
02:38:41,320 --> 02:38:45,080
Speaker 7: Hamas was and is increasingly trying to establish a more

2880
02:38:45,120 --> 02:38:50,600
Speaker 7: favorable status quo for the Palestinian people. Hamas's leaders were

2881
02:38:50,680 --> 02:38:54,120
Speaker 7: shaped by the hard realities of a brutal occupation, which

2882
02:38:54,240 --> 02:38:57,880
Speaker 7: was marked by mass arrests of Palestinians. The expropriation of

2883
02:38:57,920 --> 02:39:02,040
Speaker 7: Palestinian lands and control of their resources. More than half

2884
02:39:02,120 --> 02:39:05,960
Speaker 7: a million Palestinians were arrested and tried in Israel's military

2885
02:39:06,080 --> 02:39:09,440
Speaker 7: run courts between nineteen sixty seven and nineteen eighty seven,

2886
02:39:09,959 --> 02:39:14,160
Speaker 7: and over fifteen hundred Palestinian homes were demolished and thousands

2887
02:39:14,160 --> 02:39:19,439
Speaker 7: of Palestinians were forcibly deported aka ethnically cleansed. After HAMAS

2888
02:39:19,480 --> 02:39:22,080
Speaker 7: won the two thousand and six elections in Gaza, its

2889
02:39:22,160 --> 02:39:24,960
Speaker 7: leader Hanija said the group accepted a state on the

2890
02:39:25,040 --> 02:39:28,160
Speaker 7: nineteen sixty seven borders, as well as all the decisions

2891
02:39:28,200 --> 02:39:30,880
Speaker 7: taken by the PA and the PLO, but there were

2892
02:39:30,959 --> 02:39:34,880
Speaker 7: no takers. HAMAS leaders also backed the two thousand and

2893
02:39:34,959 --> 02:39:38,560
Speaker 7: two era Peace Initiative that called for the following the

2894
02:39:38,680 --> 02:39:42,959
Speaker 7: withdrawal of Israeli forces from territories occupied in nineteen sixty seven,

2895
02:39:43,640 --> 02:39:46,800
Speaker 7: the right of Palestinian refugees to return to the homes

2896
02:39:46,840 --> 02:39:50,080
Speaker 7: they had been forcibly displaced from since nineteen forty eight,

2897
02:39:50,480 --> 02:39:54,480
Speaker 7: and the formation of a sovereign, independent Palestinian state in

2898
02:39:54,640 --> 02:40:00,360
Speaker 7: return for air recognition of Israel. But Hamasa's offers heatedly

2899
02:40:00,440 --> 02:40:04,480
Speaker 7: dismissed by Israel and ignored by Israel's Western allies, including

2900
02:40:04,520 --> 02:40:08,160
Speaker 7: the US, despite Washington's claims of playing the role of

2901
02:40:08,240 --> 02:40:12,960
Speaker 7: a quote honest broker in the conflict. Tarek Baconi, author

2902
02:40:13,040 --> 02:40:17,080
Speaker 7: of Hamas contained the Rise and Pacification of Palestinian resistance,

2903
02:40:17,280 --> 02:40:20,680
Speaker 7: told Al Jazeera Hamas has always said that they are

2904
02:40:20,760 --> 02:40:24,080
Speaker 7: ready to offer a truce and to stop targeting civilians

2905
02:40:24,160 --> 02:40:28,440
Speaker 7: if the Israeli occupation removes its settlers. At least seven

2906
02:40:28,560 --> 02:40:32,560
Speaker 7: hundred and fifty thousand Israelis live in hundreds of fortified

2907
02:40:32,640 --> 02:40:37,000
Speaker 7: illegal settlements and outposts across the occupied Palestinian territories of

2908
02:40:37,080 --> 02:40:40,280
Speaker 7: the West Bank and East Jerusalem, the vast majority of

2909
02:40:40,360 --> 02:40:44,200
Speaker 7: which are again built illegally, either entirely or partially on

2910
02:40:44,360 --> 02:40:49,520
Speaker 7: private Palestinian land, and thus they violate international law. One

2911
02:40:49,560 --> 02:40:53,400
Speaker 7: of the more infuriating and frankly incredibly stupid talking points

2912
02:40:53,480 --> 02:40:56,280
Speaker 7: that Zionists have when it comes to talking about Hamas

2913
02:40:57,000 --> 02:40:59,959
Speaker 7: is the two thousand and six election where Palestinians ala

2914
02:41:00,000 --> 02:41:04,200
Speaker 7: elected Hamas as they're appointed leadership. I want to remind

2915
02:41:04,240 --> 02:41:07,720
Speaker 7: every one of a few things. The Gaza strip has

2916
02:41:07,800 --> 02:41:11,720
Speaker 7: a very young population. Most of the inhabitants in Gaza

2917
02:41:12,200 --> 02:41:17,640
Speaker 7: are under fifteen years old. The largest population group in

2918
02:41:17,760 --> 02:41:22,360
Speaker 7: Gaza are children between the ages of five and nine

2919
02:41:22,720 --> 02:41:27,400
Speaker 7: years old. This population wasn't even born yet, let alone

2920
02:41:27,440 --> 02:41:31,080
Speaker 7: old enough to vote in two thousand and six. And Furthermore,

2921
02:41:31,240 --> 02:41:34,320
Speaker 7: leadership does not indicate your right to live a life,

2922
02:41:35,080 --> 02:41:38,320
Speaker 7: your right to not be killed. If you're in America

2923
02:41:38,720 --> 02:41:41,680
Speaker 7: and Trump is your elected president and you hate Trump

2924
02:41:41,760 --> 02:41:45,040
Speaker 7: and maybe other foreign entities hate Trump, do you deserve

2925
02:41:45,280 --> 02:41:45,720
Speaker 7: to die?

2926
02:41:46,480 --> 02:41:47,920
Speaker 2: No, you don't.

2927
02:41:49,440 --> 02:41:52,320
Speaker 7: The resistance fighters in Hamas are not the ones who

2928
02:41:52,400 --> 02:41:55,360
Speaker 7: wrote the original charter. They're not the ones who establish

2929
02:41:55,400 --> 02:41:58,600
Speaker 7: Hamas in the first place. They're young people that are

2930
02:41:58,720 --> 02:42:04,000
Speaker 7: joining the most active armed resistance to defend Palestine. It's

2931
02:42:04,040 --> 02:42:08,560
Speaker 7: their only option, and Palestinians have tried other non violent

2932
02:42:08,680 --> 02:42:12,960
Speaker 7: forms of resistance against this occupation. In twenty eighteen to

2933
02:42:13,080 --> 02:42:16,160
Speaker 7: twenty nineteen, there was something called the Great March of Return.

2934
02:42:17,120 --> 02:42:20,359
Speaker 7: It started on March thirtieth, twenty eighteen, and ended December

2935
02:42:20,400 --> 02:42:24,760
Speaker 7: twenty seventh of twenty nineteen. Every Friday for those years,

2936
02:42:25,120 --> 02:42:29,560
Speaker 7: Palestinians in Gaza demonstrated and protested along the border fence

2937
02:42:29,680 --> 02:42:32,600
Speaker 7: between Israel and Gaza for a right to return to

2938
02:42:32,680 --> 02:42:36,000
Speaker 7: their homes. And to demand an end to the Israeli

2939
02:42:36,080 --> 02:42:41,160
Speaker 7: blockade in Gaza. During this time, the Israeli army killed

2940
02:42:41,200 --> 02:42:45,280
Speaker 7: a total of two hundred and twenty three people. Over

2941
02:42:45,440 --> 02:42:49,000
Speaker 7: thirty six hundred and one thousand people, including nearly eight

2942
02:42:49,120 --> 02:42:53,039
Speaker 7: thousand and eight hundred children, were injured. This is after

2943
02:42:53,240 --> 02:42:57,600
Speaker 7: a peaceful attempt at demonstrating, after a peaceful attempt at

2944
02:42:57,680 --> 02:43:01,680
Speaker 7: trying to resist occupation, their still shot and killed. They're

2945
02:43:01,680 --> 02:43:05,640
Speaker 7: shot with the intention to kill. Expecting Palestinians to be

2946
02:43:05,760 --> 02:43:09,880
Speaker 7: pacifists when it comes to resisting a brutal, violent occupation

2947
02:43:10,080 --> 02:43:13,720
Speaker 7: that has been now almost a century long is very

2948
02:43:13,800 --> 02:43:19,320
Speaker 7: small minded and entitled and frankly wrong. Palestinians have their

2949
02:43:19,440 --> 02:43:24,360
Speaker 7: right to resist. Armed resistance is legal under international law.

2950
02:43:24,400 --> 02:43:27,560
Speaker 7: When it comes to resisting and occupying power. What does

2951
02:43:27,600 --> 02:43:30,400
Speaker 7: this mean? Maybe you've heard that train of thought before.

2952
02:43:30,800 --> 02:43:33,360
Speaker 7: Let me explain it to you. Let's go back in

2953
02:43:33,440 --> 02:43:36,600
Speaker 7: time a little bit. The General Assembly of the United

2954
02:43:36,720 --> 02:43:40,320
Speaker 7: Nations the UNGA, which was once described as the collective

2955
02:43:40,400 --> 02:43:43,320
Speaker 7: conscious of the world, noted the right of peoples to

2956
02:43:43,400 --> 02:43:48,160
Speaker 7: self determination, independent and human rights as early as nineteen

2957
02:43:48,240 --> 02:43:51,960
Speaker 7: seventy four Resolution three three one four of the UNNGA

2958
02:43:52,320 --> 02:43:58,320
Speaker 7: prohibited states from any military occupation, however temporary hum curious

2959
02:43:58,520 --> 02:44:01,840
Speaker 7: Israel has been doing that for now. In the relevant

2960
02:44:01,879 --> 02:44:04,680
Speaker 7: part of the resolution, the resolution not only went on

2961
02:44:04,920 --> 02:44:07,840
Speaker 7: to affirm the right to self determination, freedom, and and

2962
02:44:07,920 --> 02:44:12,720
Speaker 7: dependence of peoples forcibly deprived of that right, and particularly

2963
02:44:12,800 --> 02:44:16,200
Speaker 7: peoples under colonial and racist regimes or other forms of

2964
02:44:16,280 --> 02:44:19,560
Speaker 7: alien domination, but it also noted the right of the

2965
02:44:19,680 --> 02:44:23,879
Speaker 7: occupied to quote struggle and to seek and receive support

2966
02:44:24,080 --> 02:44:28,400
Speaker 7: in that effort. The term armed struggle was implied without

2967
02:44:28,480 --> 02:44:32,320
Speaker 7: precise definition in that resolution and many early other ones

2968
02:44:32,400 --> 02:44:35,560
Speaker 7: that upheld the right of indigenous peoples to evict an

2969
02:44:35,640 --> 02:44:39,760
Speaker 7: occupier again the right of an indigenous people to evict

2970
02:44:39,920 --> 02:44:45,560
Speaker 7: their occupier, but the imprecise language was changed on December third,

2971
02:44:45,760 --> 02:44:50,119
Speaker 7: nineteen eighty two. At that time, the WNNGA Resolution three

2972
02:44:50,280 --> 02:44:54,320
Speaker 7: seven Slash four to three removed any doubt or debate

2973
02:44:54,720 --> 02:44:58,720
Speaker 7: over the lawful entitlement of occupied people to resist occupying

2974
02:44:58,840 --> 02:45:03,160
Speaker 7: forces by na any and all lawful means. The resolution

2975
02:45:03,360 --> 02:45:07,880
Speaker 7: reaffirmed quote the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence,

2976
02:45:08,160 --> 02:45:12,800
Speaker 7: territorial integrity, national unity, and liberation from colonial and foreign

2977
02:45:12,879 --> 02:45:18,920
Speaker 7: domination and foreign occupation by all available means, including armed struggle.

2978
02:45:20,640 --> 02:45:25,520
Speaker 7: And although Israel has tried time and time again to

2979
02:45:26,200 --> 02:45:30,520
Speaker 7: recast this ambiguous intent of this precise resolution, trying to

2980
02:45:30,640 --> 02:45:34,120
Speaker 7: place its now nearly century long, violent, brutal occupation in

2981
02:45:34,200 --> 02:45:38,520
Speaker 7: the West Bank and Gaza beyond this resolution's application, the

2982
02:45:38,640 --> 02:45:43,160
Speaker 7: declaration itself proceeds to be very explicit in its language

2983
02:45:43,320 --> 02:45:46,560
Speaker 7: when it comes to Palestine. Section twenty one of the

2984
02:45:46,640 --> 02:45:51,720
Speaker 7: resolution strongly condemned quote the expansionist activities of Israel in

2985
02:45:51,800 --> 02:45:55,840
Speaker 7: the Middle East and the continual bombing of Palestinian civilians,

2986
02:45:56,320 --> 02:45:59,960
Speaker 7: which constitute a serious obstacle to the realization of self

2987
02:46:00,200 --> 02:46:05,640
Speaker 7: determination and independence of the Palestinian people. That's what I mean,

2988
02:46:06,000 --> 02:46:08,080
Speaker 7: and that's what many people mean when they say that

2989
02:46:08,200 --> 02:46:11,520
Speaker 7: Palestinians have the right to resist and armed resistance is

2990
02:46:11,520 --> 02:46:14,640
Speaker 7: illegal under international law. I want to bring that up

2991
02:46:14,640 --> 02:46:18,520
Speaker 7: because even if Hamas does not reflect the viewpoint of

2992
02:46:18,600 --> 02:46:23,199
Speaker 7: some Palestinians, HAMAS is also the main armed resistance group

2993
02:46:23,360 --> 02:46:27,800
Speaker 7: that has been fighting against the IOF in defending Palestine,

2994
02:46:27,840 --> 02:46:31,800
Speaker 7: Gaza in particular against Israel, and they have a right

2995
02:46:31,920 --> 02:46:38,600
Speaker 7: to do that clearly, as international law states. Regardless let's

2996
02:46:38,640 --> 02:46:41,920
Speaker 7: go back to talk about the history of Hamas and

2997
02:46:42,320 --> 02:46:44,680
Speaker 7: how they amended their charter.

2998
02:46:44,560 --> 02:46:45,480
Speaker 2: In twenty seventeen.

2999
02:46:46,360 --> 02:46:50,320
Speaker 7: In twenty seventeen, Hamas formerly amended its original nineteen eighty

3000
02:46:50,360 --> 02:46:54,440
Speaker 7: eight charter. The new charter holds that armed resistance against

3001
02:46:54,440 --> 02:46:59,000
Speaker 7: an occupying power is justified under international law. And while

3002
02:46:59,080 --> 02:47:02,119
Speaker 7: the nineteen eighty eight Hamas Charter has been widely criticized

3003
02:47:02,160 --> 02:47:05,359
Speaker 7: for us anti semitism, each two thousand and seven document

3004
02:47:05,560 --> 02:47:08,520
Speaker 7: states that Hamas's fight is not with the Jewish people,

3005
02:47:08,800 --> 02:47:12,240
Speaker 7: but with the Zionist project, and as you should realize

3006
02:47:12,280 --> 02:47:16,160
Speaker 7: by now, anti Zionism is not anti Semitism. The new

3007
02:47:16,280 --> 02:47:19,000
Speaker 7: charter also announced once again that it would accept a

3008
02:47:19,080 --> 02:47:23,760
Speaker 7: Palestinian state on the nineteen sixty seven borders. This would recognize,

3009
02:47:23,840 --> 02:47:27,520
Speaker 7: in effect, a two state solution and therefore the existence

3010
02:47:27,560 --> 02:47:31,640
Speaker 7: of Israel as a legitimate entity. This was proposed even

3011
02:47:31,720 --> 02:47:34,960
Speaker 7: as Israel continued to insist that it can no longer

3012
02:47:35,080 --> 02:47:39,760
Speaker 7: allow Hamas to exist, and as Israeli politicians, led by Netanyahu,

3013
02:47:40,120 --> 02:47:44,680
Speaker 7: repeatedly ruled out a two state solution. Hama's political leader

3014
02:47:44,800 --> 02:47:48,480
Speaker 7: Haled Michal said at the time the Hamas, thinking from

3015
02:47:48,520 --> 02:47:51,600
Speaker 7: the very start was clear we are not facing a

3016
02:47:51,720 --> 02:47:56,720
Speaker 7: religious war. Hamas ever since its inception, realizes the nature

3017
02:47:56,800 --> 02:47:59,720
Speaker 7: of the struggle against the Israeli occupier, that it is

3018
02:47:59,720 --> 02:48:02,320
Speaker 7: not a struggle because they are Jews, but because they

3019
02:48:02,360 --> 02:48:06,920
Speaker 7: are occupiers. Israeli officials dismissed the new policy paper as

3020
02:48:07,240 --> 02:48:11,440
Speaker 7: lies in a video Ntenya, who symbolically and dramatically threw

3021
02:48:11,480 --> 02:48:13,880
Speaker 7: the document into a trash ban, saying it was an

3022
02:48:13,879 --> 02:48:18,000
Speaker 7: attempt to deceive the world. Through its actions which span

3023
02:48:18,120 --> 02:48:21,520
Speaker 7: across decades, Israel has not shown any interest in a

3024
02:48:21,560 --> 02:48:25,680
Speaker 7: political agreement, whether with Hamas or other Palestinian political parties

3025
02:48:25,920 --> 02:48:30,160
Speaker 7: like FATA, which governs the occupied West Bank. Sary Arabi,

3026
02:48:30,320 --> 02:48:34,360
Speaker 7: a Ramala based political analyst, told El Dazeira, the issue

3027
02:48:34,480 --> 02:48:37,720
Speaker 7: is not about Gaza. It's also not about whether Israel

3028
02:48:37,840 --> 02:48:41,400
Speaker 7: or Hamas started the war. There are daily killings and

3029
02:48:41,480 --> 02:48:44,440
Speaker 7: assaults in the occupied West Bank. There are attacks on

3030
02:48:44,480 --> 02:48:48,480
Speaker 7: the Uxa Mosque, there are prisoners and checkpoints. The people

3031
02:48:48,600 --> 02:48:52,360
Speaker 7: in Gaza are refugees. They were isolated and separated from

3032
02:48:52,400 --> 02:48:55,640
Speaker 7: the rest of the Palestinian people, and the vast majority

3033
02:48:55,640 --> 02:48:59,800
Speaker 7: of Gaza's population are refugees who were forcibly expelled from

3034
02:48:59,800 --> 02:49:02,680
Speaker 7: their homes and villages in the nineteen forty eight Nekba

3035
02:49:02,800 --> 02:49:07,840
Speaker 7: by Zionist militias. Many political analysts also blame Israel for

3036
02:49:07,959 --> 02:49:11,039
Speaker 7: the failure of the OSCO Accords, signed in nineteen ninety

3037
02:49:11,080 --> 02:49:14,240
Speaker 7: three and nineteen ninety five between Israel and the PLO,

3038
02:49:14,680 --> 02:49:17,199
Speaker 7: which was representative of the Palestinian people at the time.

3039
02:49:18,360 --> 02:49:21,160
Speaker 7: The agreements led to the formation of the PA, an

3040
02:49:21,240 --> 02:49:24,400
Speaker 7: interim five year governing body meant to lead to an

3041
02:49:24,440 --> 02:49:28,760
Speaker 7: independent Palestinian state comprising of the occupied territory of East

3042
02:49:28,800 --> 02:49:32,119
Speaker 7: Jerusalem and the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. However,

3043
02:49:32,720 --> 02:49:36,400
Speaker 7: thirty years into its existence, the PA has failed to

3044
02:49:36,520 --> 02:49:39,760
Speaker 7: create a state in the face of Israeli occupation, legal

3045
02:49:39,840 --> 02:49:43,440
Speaker 7: land grabs and settlements, and then Hamas took control of

3046
02:49:43,520 --> 02:49:47,199
Speaker 7: Gaza from the PA in two thousand and seven. While

3047
02:49:47,280 --> 02:49:50,759
Speaker 7: there was initial support for the OSCO Accords among Palestinians,

3048
02:49:51,160 --> 02:49:53,920
Speaker 7: the failure to reach a final peace agreement by nineteen

3049
02:49:54,000 --> 02:49:58,080
Speaker 7: ninety nine and the growing settlement projects, particularly under nan Yahoo,

3050
02:49:58,400 --> 02:50:03,279
Speaker 7: left many disappointed. In a leaked video in twenty ten, Nanyah,

3051
02:50:03,320 --> 02:50:06,960
Speaker 7: who boasted about how he made sure the OSCO Accords

3052
02:50:07,120 --> 02:50:11,480
Speaker 7: did not succeed. The hopes of the OSCO Accords turned

3053
02:50:11,520 --> 02:50:16,280
Speaker 7: into despair as Israeli policies under successive governments continued to

3054
02:50:16,400 --> 02:50:21,360
Speaker 7: undermine the PA and its aspirations. Today, the PA has

3055
02:50:21,480 --> 02:50:24,880
Speaker 7: limited administrative rule over pockets of the occupied West Bank,

3056
02:50:25,400 --> 02:50:29,600
Speaker 7: while Israeli settlements, which are again considered illegal under international law,

3057
02:50:30,000 --> 02:50:34,400
Speaker 7: have grown rapidly. The settler population in the occupied West

3058
02:50:34,440 --> 02:50:37,560
Speaker 7: Bank and East Jerusalem has grown from two hundred and

3059
02:50:37,680 --> 02:50:41,280
Speaker 7: fifty thousand Israelis in nineteen ninety three to more than

3060
02:50:41,400 --> 02:50:45,959
Speaker 7: seven hundred thousand this year. In his talk with El Jazeera,

3061
02:50:46,280 --> 02:50:51,080
Speaker 7: author Tarik Barconi said the Israelis wanted OSLO because that's

3062
02:50:51,120 --> 02:50:55,000
Speaker 7: how they maintained their colonization. By maintaining the facade of

3063
02:50:55,080 --> 02:50:58,440
Speaker 7: a peace process. Hamas was showing a mirror to the

3064
02:50:58,560 --> 02:51:01,879
Speaker 7: Israelis to say, if you're actually talking about the possibility

3065
02:51:01,920 --> 02:51:05,640
Speaker 7: of ending the occupation, then end it. That was their offer,

3066
02:51:06,080 --> 02:51:09,200
Speaker 7: instead of the nineteen ninety three awesome agreements that they

3067
02:51:09,240 --> 02:51:13,640
Speaker 7: would stop armed resistance if Israel let Palestinians be in

3068
02:51:13,720 --> 02:51:16,879
Speaker 7: the eastern side of Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza.

3069
02:51:17,800 --> 02:51:20,440
Speaker 7: When we look into the history of Hamas, we see

3070
02:51:20,520 --> 02:51:24,120
Speaker 7: that its political leadership has over the years proposed numerous

3071
02:51:24,280 --> 02:51:27,560
Speaker 7: long term truces or cease fires to Israel in exchange

3072
02:51:27,640 --> 02:51:31,680
Speaker 7: for the realization of a sovereign, independent Palestinian state, but

3073
02:51:31,920 --> 02:51:36,160
Speaker 7: Israel has rejected those offers, arguing that Hamas could not

3074
02:51:36,240 --> 02:51:39,640
Speaker 7: be trusted to adhere to any long term ceasefire and

3075
02:51:39,760 --> 02:51:42,400
Speaker 7: insisting that any proposal for a short term pause and

3076
02:51:42,520 --> 02:51:46,840
Speaker 7: fighting were insincere and strategically aimed only at helping the

3077
02:51:47,040 --> 02:51:51,160
Speaker 7: armed movement regroup from losses. I've said this before, but

3078
02:51:51,280 --> 02:51:55,560
Speaker 7: it bears repeating. Every Zionist accusation is a confession. The

3079
02:51:55,680 --> 02:51:58,360
Speaker 7: reality is that Israel is the one who cannot be

3080
02:51:58,480 --> 02:52:02,000
Speaker 7: trusted to adhere to any long term ceasefire, as we

3081
02:52:02,080 --> 02:52:15,800
Speaker 7: have seen time and time again. Here is a summarized

3082
02:52:15,840 --> 02:52:18,840
Speaker 7: timeline of the most recent peace deal attempts that have

3083
02:52:18,959 --> 02:52:22,880
Speaker 7: been proposed since October seventh, since the genocide in Gaza started.

3084
02:52:24,240 --> 02:52:27,400
Speaker 7: In January twenty twenty four, the n YAHOO rejected a

3085
02:52:27,480 --> 02:52:30,440
Speaker 7: Hamas proposal to end the war and release more than

3086
02:52:30,480 --> 02:52:33,680
Speaker 7: one hundred captives held by the group in exchange for

3087
02:52:33,760 --> 02:52:37,440
Speaker 7: a withdrawal of Israeli forces, the release of Palestinian prisoners

3088
02:52:37,480 --> 02:52:41,320
Speaker 7: in Israeli jails and recognition of Hamas governance over Gaza.

3089
02:52:42,360 --> 02:52:45,200
Speaker 7: And then on May sixth, Hamas said it accepted a

3090
02:52:45,280 --> 02:52:49,000
Speaker 7: Gaza ceasefire proposal which was put forward by Egypt and Kuttar.

3091
02:52:50,120 --> 02:52:53,080
Speaker 7: This deal would come in three stages that would see

3092
02:52:53,160 --> 02:52:56,440
Speaker 7: an initial halt in the fighting, leading to lasting calm

3093
02:52:56,640 --> 02:52:59,560
Speaker 7: and the withdrawal of Israeli troops from the Palaesainian territory.

3094
02:53:00,320 --> 02:53:03,520
Speaker 7: It would also ensure the release of Israeli captives in Gaza,

3095
02:53:03,680 --> 02:53:06,840
Speaker 7: as well as an unspecified number of Palestinians held in

3096
02:53:06,959 --> 02:53:10,880
Speaker 7: Israeli jails. The framework of the agreement in brief is

3097
02:53:11,520 --> 02:53:14,039
Speaker 7: the release of all Israeli captives in the Gaza Strip,

3098
02:53:14,480 --> 02:53:18,560
Speaker 7: civilians or military, alive or otherwise from all periods, in

3099
02:53:18,640 --> 02:53:21,960
Speaker 7: exchange for a number of Palestinian prisoners held by Israel

3100
02:53:22,000 --> 02:53:25,920
Speaker 7: as agreed upon, and a return to a sustainable calm

3101
02:53:26,280 --> 02:53:29,320
Speaker 7: that leads to a permanent ceasefire and the withdrawal of

3102
02:53:29,440 --> 02:53:32,480
Speaker 7: Israeli forces from the Gaza Strip, as well as its

3103
02:53:32,520 --> 02:53:36,640
Speaker 7: reconstruction in the lifting of the siege hm That seems

3104
02:53:36,680 --> 02:53:41,320
Speaker 7: little familiar, doesn't it, But Israel unsurprisingly did not agree

3105
02:53:41,360 --> 02:53:46,600
Speaker 7: to this proposal. Instead, it bombed Rupha, which made the

3106
02:53:46,720 --> 02:53:51,400
Speaker 7: Israeli government's message clear there will be no permanent ceasefire.

3107
02:53:52,160 --> 02:53:55,280
Speaker 7: Israel's bombing of Raupphah was justified by Israel as a

3108
02:53:55,320 --> 02:53:59,119
Speaker 7: way to disband Hamspitalians and seize control of the Gaza

3109
02:53:59,200 --> 02:54:03,199
Speaker 7: Egyptian cross which Israel accuses Hamas of using to smuggle

3110
02:54:03,240 --> 02:54:07,320
Speaker 7: weapons into Gaza. But humanitarian groups were quick to point

3111
02:54:07,360 --> 02:54:09,720
Speaker 7: out that a closure of such a crossing would only

3112
02:54:09,920 --> 02:54:13,680
Speaker 7: lead to further disastrous consequences for the more than one

3113
02:54:13,840 --> 02:54:17,680
Speaker 7: million Palestinians living in Dapah, the majority of them displaced

3114
02:54:17,680 --> 02:54:20,680
Speaker 7: from other areas of Gaza who fled to Daphah after

3115
02:54:20,760 --> 02:54:23,320
Speaker 7: being told by Israel that it was a quote unquote

3116
02:54:23,600 --> 02:54:26,879
Speaker 7: safe zone. Israel said at the time that the terms

3117
02:54:26,920 --> 02:54:30,480
Speaker 7: of the May Hamasisepire deal differed from previous proposals it

3118
02:54:30,560 --> 02:54:34,200
Speaker 7: had seen, but analysts believe that the wider issue is

3119
02:54:34,280 --> 02:54:37,200
Speaker 7: that Israel is not willing to agree to a permanency

3120
02:54:37,280 --> 02:54:43,199
Speaker 7: spire even after Hamas releases all Israeli captives. Omar Dehman,

3121
02:54:43,400 --> 02:54:46,279
Speaker 7: an expert on Israel Palestine with the Middle East Council

3122
02:54:46,360 --> 02:54:50,160
Speaker 7: for Global Affairs, spoke about this in May saying the

3123
02:54:50,280 --> 02:54:53,360
Speaker 7: last couple of days have proved that Israel was not

3124
02:54:53,560 --> 02:54:57,600
Speaker 7: really negotiating in good faith. The moment that Hamas agreed

3125
02:54:57,640 --> 02:55:00,640
Speaker 7: to a deal, Israel was willing to low that up

3126
02:55:00,920 --> 02:55:04,040
Speaker 7: by commencing their assault on Rafah. The goal is to

3127
02:55:04,200 --> 02:55:09,199
Speaker 7: destroy Gaza in its totality. And then, on May thirty first,

3128
02:55:09,640 --> 02:55:13,440
Speaker 7: the US announced its own ceasefire proposal that Biden said

3129
02:55:13,480 --> 02:55:17,000
Speaker 7: would lead to a quote lasting ceasefire in the Gaza strip.

3130
02:55:17,959 --> 02:55:21,200
Speaker 7: He said the proposal involves three phases, the first of

3131
02:55:21,240 --> 02:55:24,160
Speaker 7: which would last six weeks and would include a full

3132
02:55:24,200 --> 02:55:27,200
Speaker 7: and complete ceasefire as well as the withdrawal of Israeli

3133
02:55:27,320 --> 02:55:31,600
Speaker 7: forces from all populated areas of Gaza. Again, this peace

3134
02:55:31,680 --> 02:55:35,039
Speaker 7: plan is almost indistinguishable from the one that Hamas agreed

3135
02:55:35,040 --> 02:55:38,400
Speaker 7: to on May sixth. A quick reminder that only twenty

3136
02:55:38,480 --> 02:55:42,160
Speaker 7: five days before this announcement, on May sixth, Hamas had

3137
02:55:42,200 --> 02:55:45,080
Speaker 7: agreed to a cease fire proposal by Egypt and Katad

3138
02:55:45,280 --> 02:55:48,560
Speaker 7: that is almost identical to the one Biden announced on

3139
02:55:48,680 --> 02:55:53,600
Speaker 7: May thirty first, and Israeli leaders rejected that initiative. On

3140
02:55:53,760 --> 02:55:57,440
Speaker 7: June seventh, Israel rejected the UN's resolution of its own

3141
02:55:57,560 --> 02:56:00,520
Speaker 7: hostage deal. Offer, which was a permanent seat ease fire

3142
02:56:00,600 --> 02:56:04,440
Speaker 7: in exchange for release of all hostages. A reminder that

3143
02:56:04,560 --> 02:56:08,560
Speaker 7: the only mass release of hostages has come through ceasefire exchanges,

3144
02:56:09,000 --> 02:56:13,640
Speaker 7: and that a ceasefire deal means freed hostages without mass death.

3145
02:56:14,680 --> 02:56:18,080
Speaker 7: It boggles my mind that there are still people defending

3146
02:56:18,240 --> 02:56:22,480
Speaker 7: Israel and saying all this Palestinian death is for the hostages,

3147
02:56:23,040 --> 02:56:26,840
Speaker 7: because again, if Israel cared about their lives at all,

3148
02:56:27,760 --> 02:56:30,680
Speaker 7: they would agree to a deal because that deal can

3149
02:56:30,760 --> 02:56:34,520
Speaker 7: guarantee the safety of the hostages. But they do not

3150
02:56:34,680 --> 02:56:38,400
Speaker 7: care about the hostages. Every time Israel rejects a deal,

3151
02:56:38,720 --> 02:56:41,840
Speaker 7: they are telling you that, and yet their supporters are

3152
02:56:41,959 --> 02:56:45,840
Speaker 7: too entrenched in the lies and propaganda of Zionism to

3153
02:56:46,000 --> 02:56:53,200
Speaker 7: ever see clearly. So, just to summarize, the US proposed

3154
02:56:53,240 --> 02:56:57,520
Speaker 7: a ceasefire deal which was almost indistinguishable from previous plans,

3155
02:56:57,600 --> 02:57:01,840
Speaker 7: agreed to buy Hamas, and then, while seemingly waiting for

3156
02:57:02,000 --> 02:57:05,480
Speaker 7: Israel to accept the deal, the US launched a military

3157
02:57:05,560 --> 02:57:10,519
Speaker 7: operation and committed more war crimes to murder hundreds of Palestinians.

3158
02:57:10,879 --> 02:57:14,240
Speaker 7: And they did this by hiding in humanitarian aid trucks

3159
02:57:15,160 --> 02:57:18,760
Speaker 7: while deceiving the world and the Palestinians into thinking that

3160
02:57:18,879 --> 02:57:22,480
Speaker 7: they were trying to formulate a ceasefire agreement. The US

3161
02:57:22,680 --> 02:57:27,240
Speaker 7: helped Israel plan and carry out its massacres. This is

3162
02:57:27,320 --> 02:57:31,320
Speaker 7: what peacemaking looks like to the United States. A ceasefire

3163
02:57:31,440 --> 02:57:35,279
Speaker 7: deal is the absolute bare minimum, and it is nowhere

3164
02:57:35,360 --> 02:57:40,039
Speaker 7: near enough. The removal of Nan Yahoo is nowhere near enough.

3165
02:57:41,280 --> 02:57:44,040
Speaker 7: He's being set up as the fall guy and scapegoat

3166
02:57:44,080 --> 02:57:47,520
Speaker 7: for Israel, skirting the responsibility of what the Israeli state

3167
02:57:47,600 --> 02:57:51,120
Speaker 7: has done to Palestinian people since nineteen forty eight. The

3168
02:57:51,280 --> 02:57:55,360
Speaker 7: Fight for Palestine is a liberation movement which demands nothing

3169
02:57:55,560 --> 02:57:59,840
Speaker 7: less than the full dignity, freedom, and security of all

3170
02:58:00,000 --> 02:58:04,040
Speaker 7: all who live under this violent military occupation. It's a

3171
02:58:04,160 --> 02:58:09,480
Speaker 7: demand to end Israeli apartheid, and until that happens, Israel

3172
02:58:09,520 --> 02:58:12,199
Speaker 7: will continue to get away with the nekapa that started

3173
02:58:12,280 --> 02:58:16,320
Speaker 7: in nineteen forty eight and continues today. The Nekapa never ended.

3174
02:58:17,320 --> 02:58:20,120
Speaker 7: Israel will continue to get away with the genocide and

3175
02:58:20,200 --> 02:58:23,800
Speaker 7: ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people until Israel and it's

3176
02:58:23,800 --> 02:58:29,000
Speaker 7: apartheid is dismantled. A ceasefire is the absolute bare minimum

3177
02:58:29,480 --> 02:58:32,960
Speaker 7: to achieving that, and that my friends is our episode

3178
02:58:33,000 --> 02:58:36,960
Speaker 7: for today. Please keep sharing and learning about what is

3179
02:58:37,040 --> 02:58:43,000
Speaker 7: happening in Palestine and got stop talking about it. Free Palestine.

3180
02:58:46,680 --> 02:58:49,800
Speaker 1: Hey, We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week

3181
02:58:49,920 --> 02:58:51,800
Speaker 1: from now until the heat death of the Universe.

3182
02:58:52,440 --> 02:58:54,760
Speaker 7: It Could Happen Here as a production of cool Zone Media.

3183
02:58:55,000 --> 02:58:57,640
Speaker 7: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

3184
02:58:57,680 --> 02:58:59,840
Speaker 7: cool zonemedia dot com or check us out on the

3185
02:59:00,000 --> 02:59:03,320
Speaker 7: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

3186
02:59:03,800 --> 02:59:05,880
Speaker 7: You can find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated

3187
02:59:06,000 --> 02:59:10,000
Speaker 7: monthly at coolzonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.