1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:04,880 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:09,320 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:12,320 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,440 --> 00:00:14,120 Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio. 5 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt. 6 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:31,720 Speaker 2: Our colleague Noel is still on an adventure, but will 7 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:32,440 Speaker 2: be back soon. 8 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:36,239 Speaker 3: They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our 9 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:40,239 Speaker 3: super producer, Dylan the Tennessee pal Fagan. Most importantly, you 10 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 3: are you. You are here. That makes this the stuff 11 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:47,199 Speaker 3: they don't want you to know. Here are the facts. 12 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:50,800 Speaker 3: This is the second part of a two part series 13 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 3: that gets into some deep conspiratorial strange water. Here's where 14 00:00:56,880 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 3: it gets crazy. We are joining the show in media rests, 15 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:05,040 Speaker 3: so please listen to part one before you roll past 16 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:05,720 Speaker 3: this ad break. 17 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:15,399 Speaker 2: I think the honestly, one of the most important things, 18 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 2: which is why I think raccoons might have an edge 19 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:23,319 Speaker 2: on everybody, is the fine motor skills. Because if you 20 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:26,560 Speaker 2: really want a species to be able to develop technology, 21 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 2: you need to have the ability to make those tiny 22 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 2: adjustments to make small things, or at least make something 23 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:37,039 Speaker 2: big that can create a small thing. So I do 24 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:40,680 Speaker 2: I feel like the lower raccoon. Well, it's it's five digits, 25 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:42,399 Speaker 2: that's it's pretty good. 26 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 3: The dexterity, right, there are a couple extra articulation points away. 27 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 3: That's it, and that's not hard for evolution to solve. 28 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 3: That's ye same, Yeah, well. 29 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 2: Exactly, yes, because I think I do think about honestly, 30 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 2: like the intelligent of specifically the corvids that we've talked 31 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 2: about extensively on this show, and just how you could 32 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 2: have the brains, but you would you may not have 33 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 2: the ability to manipulate a thing exactly the way you 34 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 2: know you could or you would want to, but you 35 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 2: just physically can't do it without some major adaptation like 36 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 2: we're talking about. 37 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, dude, the corvids have the tool making and even 38 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 3: more importantly, they have the intergenerational educational capabilities. Yes, right, 39 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 3: Obviously elephants can do the same thing, but they're large animals, 40 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 3: so they're probably going to go out depending on how 41 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 3: the humans go out. It just depends, but elephants could 42 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 3: figure it out. So we also have to consider our 43 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 3: maritime friends, especially those enormously intelligent cetaceans. Oh what a mystery, 44 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:54,239 Speaker 3: oh man, And they don't have some of the stuff 45 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 3: that we're naming. Right, that's why the oceanic environment such 46 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 3: a different proposition. Right. They don't have the thumbs, so 47 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:04,519 Speaker 3: we're bracketing whales and orcas and dolphins and the other 48 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:08,520 Speaker 3: cetaceans because they don't they got the flippies. They don't 49 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:09,399 Speaker 3: have the thumbies. 50 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:14,360 Speaker 2: Well, which stinks, right, because that I do feel And 51 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 2: maybe I'm completely wrong, but it feels like that would 52 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 2: be an impossibility just to due to that, unless unless 53 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 2: there was enough of an adaptation to where there was 54 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 2: some kind of articulation right where we're talking about like 55 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 2: a joint or something. 56 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 3: Right, or a social evolution wherein you know, they say, Okay, 57 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 3: if I hang out with this other orca. Orcas are 58 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 3: so smart, man, and we put our fins together, we 59 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 3: can build a thing or move a thing. That's a possibility. 60 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 3: They are brilliant. But they're not the octopus. And I'm 61 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 3: very very pro octopus. 62 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 2: Well what if okay, I'm going out way out on a. 63 00:03:57,600 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 3: Tentacle here, I'm with you. I got your back. 64 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 2: But if the orcas do survive somehow, or you know, 65 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 2: some other citacean survives and they in some way make 66 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 2: the octopuses work for. 67 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 3: Them, domesticate them, enslave them. Yeah, teach them. That's interesting. 68 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 3: I really like where you're going because the octopus is 69 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 3: fascinating right if you look at it on paper. Aside 70 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 3: from three big asterisks, these folks are great, Like they 71 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:37,719 Speaker 3: are an absolute winner. They went to the Harvard of Evolution, 72 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:43,039 Speaker 3: you know the They are so smart. Chrematophores are so cool. 73 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:47,240 Speaker 3: We know they dream, they experience something like emotion. I 74 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 3: don't know if there's a human equivalency to it, but 75 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:54,599 Speaker 3: I get it. They also, recently, and I'm sure we 76 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 3: all saw this, they were historically solitary creatures. Right outside 77 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:05,159 Speaker 3: of reper reduction. Environmental pressures have led to the creation 78 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 3: of octopus villages. Whoa, Yeah, well village is a big name. 79 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 3: It's not like they have an hoa or something. But 80 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 3: they're living in groups. Yeah. 81 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:18,920 Speaker 2: Do they have a garden? Maybe an octopus. 82 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:24,839 Speaker 3: It's called the Octopus Ringo Memorial Park. 83 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:29,039 Speaker 2: I have a great book. It's like a kid's book 84 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 2: about the octopus's garden. I think it is by Ringo 85 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:33,760 Speaker 2: and others, but it's fantastic. 86 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 3: I thought it was a Ringo thing. I love it 87 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 3: because it's one of those songs and stories where you 88 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:43,360 Speaker 3: have to wonder what inspired it. 89 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 2: But it's also yeah, I agree, but it's so joyous 90 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:48,359 Speaker 2: and just like, oh my gosh, this. 91 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 3: Hack I know, I know, man, because he's just it's 92 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 3: just speculation and aspiration. I'd like to be there. 93 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 2: You know, under the sea, you know, under the Yes, Okay, 94 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:05,799 Speaker 2: I feel like that was a tick that just happened. 95 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 3: We are so programmed, right. 96 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 2: Yes, we really are. This hit our radar a little 97 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:15,479 Speaker 2: while ago. I don't know that I could say exactly when. 98 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:18,480 Speaker 2: I think it was last year, sometime like towards the 99 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 2: end of the year. But it was a person named 100 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:27,679 Speaker 2: Professor Tim Colson, and he was doing a lot of work, 101 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 2: just trying to do this thought experimentation what could be 102 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 2: the next species that emerges, And one of the things 103 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 2: or the thing that he landed on was the octopus, 104 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 2: specifically for the things we've already outlined here my big 105 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 2: takeaway from it and trying to visualize this, and you know, 106 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 2: maybe if you're listening, you can help us, help me 107 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:50,479 Speaker 2: understand this, Ben, maybe you can help me right now, 108 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:57,280 Speaker 2: how could you have a technological evolution like a species 109 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 2: that builds the technology that we imagine would be a 110 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 2: next advanced species. How do you do that in a 111 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 2: water environment if you, you know, primarily exist within that 112 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 2: water and your systems breathe through that water, Like, how 113 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 2: do you build electricity and electrical systems under there? 114 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's why I always bring up the example of 115 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 3: the Promethean taming fire thing anytime we talk about octopus 116 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 3: on the octopus on air and look, technically it's octopuses, 117 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 3: but you can say OCTOPI. Nobody's going to get mad 118 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 3: at you. English is a living language and everybody's just 119 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 3: kind of making it up. So don't stress on that. 120 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 2: It'll only be here as long as we are. 121 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:49,600 Speaker 3: Do stress on the thing that we're bringing up here. 122 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 3: It's a huge question. One of the best answers would 123 00:07:53,960 --> 00:08:00,120 Speaker 3: be domestication of other animals. Would be some way to 124 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 3: tame natural electricity, right, natural bioelectricity occurrences. Another answer would 125 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 3: be harnessing the power of undersea thermal vents. But then 126 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 3: we have to ask ourselves is this human centric? You 127 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 3: know what I mean? Do they need it? 128 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:18,720 Speaker 2: Like? 129 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 3: We have to remember the dinosaurs ran the game for 130 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 3: a long time. They didn't need poetry, nor religion or 131 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 3: art or rocket science. They just ran around eating stuff 132 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:34,200 Speaker 3: and then an asteroid smacked the crap out of them. 133 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 2: So we say so we say, we say they didn't 134 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 2: have poetry. There's incredible dinosaur poetry out there. 135 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 3: I would love to hear it it. Write us some 136 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 3: dinosaur poetry and send it. Send it our way, conspiracy 137 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 3: diheartradio dot com. We also we got to get those 138 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 3: three caveats in the first one, the biggest one we've 139 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:02,200 Speaker 3: already nailed, which is that living in the water is 140 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:06,319 Speaker 3: so so very different from living on the surface. So 141 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 3: there are wildly varying priorities for survival, they're wildly varying 142 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 3: avenues of evolution and progress. The second thing is the 143 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 3: current octopus, so far as civilization knows, has a brutally 144 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 3: short lifespan. The third caveat is when they bang, they die. 145 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 2: Oh wait really yeah. 146 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:37,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, they got a kill switch, hormonal kill switch in them. 147 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 2: That stinks. 148 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:42,839 Speaker 3: It's you know, that's why we saved it for the end. 149 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:46,200 Speaker 3: I think that's the biggest stumbling block there. 150 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, can you imagine that, Like if if 151 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:54,199 Speaker 2: there is some kind of adaptation and evolution occurring over 152 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:56,320 Speaker 2: a seer, you know, a long enough span of time. 153 00:09:56,720 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 2: You have an octopus, but three four four years around, 154 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:05,720 Speaker 2: Oh okay, it says up to potentially five years common 155 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 2: octopus only two years. 156 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, man, geez. 157 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:12,840 Speaker 2: So if you imagine you do all of your great work, 158 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 2: let's use that term great work in two years and 159 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:18,200 Speaker 2: then you pass it down. 160 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 3: But that's what she got, right, Yeah, you would have 161 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 3: to figure out how to communicate that knowledge, effectively communicate 162 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 3: that progress so that these other generations within their limited 163 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 3: lifespan can continue the great work. There was some research 164 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 3: back in the nineteen seventies which I believe we've mentioned 165 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:49,200 Speaker 3: on air before. It was essentially an octopus lobotomy. They said, 166 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 3: let's go into a female octopus is going to reproduce, right, 167 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:59,199 Speaker 3: so let's get into their top brain because all eight 168 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:01,320 Speaker 3: arms are like the own brain. So let's get into 169 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 3: like brain prime and let's cut out. Let's physically remove 170 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 3: the part of this organism that triggers that kill switch, 171 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 3: and let's see how long it can live. So we 172 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 3: don't know what happened to the rest of the research, 173 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:22,199 Speaker 3: but the human intervention there could start to address one 174 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:25,200 Speaker 3: of those issues for the octopus to be successful. For 175 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:27,720 Speaker 3: the octopus to be our new main character. It would 176 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:34,319 Speaker 3: need a longer lifespan, it would need something some way 177 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:39,560 Speaker 3: to communicate learning across generations, and it would also have 178 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:41,959 Speaker 3: to be able to bang without automatically dying. 179 00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 2: That's a that's a tough list there. 180 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 3: Other than that phenomenal candidate. 181 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 2: But again, if you've got a couple million years, you 182 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:57,320 Speaker 2: can accomplish so much two years at a time. 183 00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, and then we also you know, we know it's 184 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 3: the environment baby steps. Yeah, we also know it's the 185 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 3: environmental pressure that pushes evolution. So if for instance, something happens, 186 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 3: whatever mops the humans is so global, right and so 187 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 3: catastrophic that it alters the oceanic environment, that may alter 188 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:27,840 Speaker 3: the adaptation and the evolution of the octopus and the cetacean. 189 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 3: And we do have to remember that another advantage the 190 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:35,400 Speaker 3: octopus would have given the precedent is that a lot 191 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 3: of the octopuses are smaller creatures. And again it's the meek. 192 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:44,200 Speaker 3: This is the meek's game once the humans are gone. 193 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, sorry, colossal octopus or was it a giant specific octopus? 194 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:51,600 Speaker 3: I think that's what they'll worship it like a god, 195 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:56,199 Speaker 3: or it'll be the way we look at the gigantipithecus, 196 00:12:56,640 --> 00:12:59,960 Speaker 3: you know what I mean, Fast forward to the descend 197 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 3: and didn't of the octopus, whatever the Homo sapien version 198 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:08,559 Speaker 3: of them is, and they'll be doing an octopodcast and 199 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:11,479 Speaker 3: they'll be talking about their version of Bigfoot. 200 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 2: Oh my god, that'd be so exciting. Again. Happy International 201 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 2: Podcast Day. Go listen to a new podcast you haven't 202 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 2: heard before. 203 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:26,559 Speaker 3: Right now, So we we hit this point a little bit, 204 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:31,240 Speaker 3: like a dominant life form doesn't need to be what 205 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:36,440 Speaker 3: humans would consider civilized. Dinosaurs, of course, ruled for millions 206 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:41,480 Speaker 3: of years and so far as we know, they just 207 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:45,800 Speaker 3: ran around in the in the brutal fight to reproduce, 208 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:51,680 Speaker 3: to consume, and to expand to explore. So we know 209 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:56,840 Speaker 3: then logically that a larger apex predator could evolve to 210 00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 3: a certain point, right a fauna could have all to 211 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 3: dominate Earth or regions thereof, but then it might never 212 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:08,439 Speaker 3: encounter those environmental pressures that push them to the next 213 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:12,320 Speaker 3: stage of intelligence. I mean, it's depressing, but it's also 214 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:16,320 Speaker 3: kind of freeing in an ego obliterating way, you know, 215 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 3: because this thing would not know much about the past. 216 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 3: It wouldn't know what came before it, it would not 217 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:27,720 Speaker 3: have that Osmandias moment, and it would also not possess 218 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 3: those big, heartbreaking dreams of exploring space. 219 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 2: It just makes me a little sad. 220 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 3: It's ignorance as bliss, you know. 221 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just going to go around doing all the 222 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 2: things that we do every day. 223 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:46,600 Speaker 3: And ignorance, I think is our least favorite of the drugs. 224 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, that stuff's terrible, and stop taking it from the 225 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:53,200 Speaker 2: people who are selling it. 226 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, don't get started, you know what I mean. 227 00:14:56,840 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 2: First time you take a little ignorance, you're gonna want 228 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 2: to get more. I know I do. 229 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 3: The first one's free, and then the next thing, you know, 230 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 3: you're paying for it. Yeah. 231 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 2: They're just out there offering it in every corner of 232 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 2: the Internet. 233 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 3: In every local shop, in every conversation at your favorite restaurant. Yeah, 234 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 3: there's going to be someone selling that dope. 235 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:26,840 Speaker 2: Yeah in what this one huge room in Virginia that 236 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 2: had a bunch of people in it just selling all. 237 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:36,480 Speaker 3: The red wedding style my guy, so also insects. I 238 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:39,840 Speaker 3: feel like that's another episode on its own. Because humans 239 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 3: still don't have a ton of information about how many 240 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 3: insects exist other than that they are also in a 241 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 3: mass extinction event. Also, humans don't know the capabilities of insects. 242 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:57,640 Speaker 3: Shout out to our animal communication episode if there were 243 00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 3: a world. Oh gosh, all right, quick plug. If it's 244 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 3: okay for Katie DIDs, I agree. Oh man, they're fascinating. 245 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:11,880 Speaker 3: There's a sci fi writer that I really love, and 246 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 3: actually I was chatting with our pal Connell about this 247 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:18,560 Speaker 3: not too too long ago. His name is Adrian Tchaikovsky, 248 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 3: spelled like the composer, and he has a series of 249 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 3: just absolute superb novels about evolution kind of not posthuman, 250 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 3: but evolution of animals without humans. So what happens if 251 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:38,880 Speaker 3: a bunch of ants have their intelligence radically increased? What 252 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 3: happens if a certain type of arachnid has its intelligence 253 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 3: radically increased? And then we let them spin along in 254 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 3: the evolutionary sandbox for millions of years. It's pretty cool. 255 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:57,240 Speaker 3: It's a great read available on audiobook as well. This 256 00:16:57,320 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 3: is not an official sponsor of the show. We're just 257 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 3: fans of the guy. Amazing. 258 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 2: I'm gonna check it out for sure. I'm also gonna 259 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:09,879 Speaker 2: check out mantids. Have we even considered the praying mantis 260 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:10,880 Speaker 2: as the next thing. 261 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 3: Have you even thought about the mantids. 262 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:19,840 Speaker 2: To those guys, those are incredible creatures and they display 263 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:25,600 Speaker 2: all kinds of other intelligence, especially for an insect will 264 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:29,199 Speaker 2: comparatively to what humans have considered to be intelligent in 265 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 2: the actions of insects, you know things that are not 266 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:35,720 Speaker 2: Oh God, I mean, I'm gonna rant here for a second, 267 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:38,040 Speaker 2: but do you remember a while ago we talked about frogs, 268 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:42,360 Speaker 2: and we talked about the there was some scientific inquiry 269 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:48,000 Speaker 2: into like essentially programming of frog's actions with visual cues 270 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:50,919 Speaker 2: and how you can you can force a frog to 271 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:56,320 Speaker 2: display the eating like singing the tongue out and attempting 272 00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:58,919 Speaker 2: to eat something depending on what type of images you 273 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 2: display in front of it. And there are all kinds 274 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 2: of other things that you can just make specific species 275 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 2: of frogs and toads do things because of the visual cue. 276 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:11,159 Speaker 2: Makes me think about no fence cats, some of the 277 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 2: kill instinct, things that get turned on, and dogs certain 278 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 2: things where it's just like it just kicks in whatever 279 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 2: that thing is. When you've got certain stimuli, when you 280 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:24,480 Speaker 2: know you're looking at mantids and other insects like that, 281 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:29,160 Speaker 2: sometimes there doesn't seem to be that full on instinctual 282 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 2: action taking place. There seems to be, and there's no 283 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:34,359 Speaker 2: way to tell right now, but there seems to be. 284 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:37,960 Speaker 2: I was gonna say, thought some some kind of calculation 285 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:42,200 Speaker 2: that's occurring outside of just you know, stimulus action. 286 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:48,360 Speaker 3: Yeah. Also that the name of the series is Children 287 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 3: of Time or that's the first one in the trilogy 288 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:54,720 Speaker 3: by Adrian Tchaikowsky. I'm going to reread that. I'm a 289 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 3: fan of it. You will love the insects stuff there too. Man, 290 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 3: no spoilers, And I think it's important that you're pointing 291 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:08,720 Speaker 3: out another commonality here, which may explain why the the 292 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:13,680 Speaker 3: mantids aren't in the top slot right now. Reproduction is 293 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:14,800 Speaker 3: also fatal for them. 294 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:16,000 Speaker 2: Ah, son of a gun. 295 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:19,439 Speaker 3: I know, I know, it's like at every point, come on, 296 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 3: give us a break, evolution. 297 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:23,320 Speaker 2: But isn't the males that get eaten kind of like 298 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:26,879 Speaker 2: a racknet style? That's problem? 299 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:32,840 Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, I mean, dudes are our least favorites. We'll 300 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:39,760 Speaker 3: pause here for a word from our sponsors. I'm thinking 301 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:41,639 Speaker 3: is so many jokes? Anyway, here are the ads. 302 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:48,640 Speaker 2: All right, you ready for this? We're gonna jump back 303 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 2: in three two one boom. 304 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 3: Since we're talking about life humans wouldn't recognize as civilization, 305 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:00,680 Speaker 3: we got to give a shout out to our non 306 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 3: animal buckaroos and buds, the plants, the mold, the funnest 307 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 3: of guys. What plants for me? Do you, dude? Do 308 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:19,200 Speaker 3: you remember when we had that really strange episode and 309 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:23,360 Speaker 3: I think we went through a phase together where we 310 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:27,880 Speaker 3: were super myopically focused on the possibility of plant intelligence. 311 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what we were doing a lot of shrooms, right, No, I'm. 312 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:35,320 Speaker 3: Just kidding, were doing us, Yes, Yes. 313 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:38,239 Speaker 2: When we really got into my celium networks, we did 314 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:41,080 Speaker 2: a whole video on plant intelligence I recall from a 315 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:46,160 Speaker 2: long time ago, check out our YouTube channel, looking at 316 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 2: the systems of communication and nutrient management and movement throughout 317 00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:56,320 Speaker 2: plant structures. It's so much more complex than I think 318 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:58,600 Speaker 2: we're comfortable even imagining. 319 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 3: Yeah. No, he likes it. And I say this as 320 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 3: a person who was a vegetarian for a very long time. 321 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 3: We learned it is scientifically proven that plants have chemical 322 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 3: interactions that in practice to humans can seem a lot 323 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:19,000 Speaker 3: like conversations. They warn each other, they attack each other, 324 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:22,199 Speaker 3: some of them kind of scream when they die. You 325 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:23,240 Speaker 3: just can't hear it. 326 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:27,640 Speaker 2: So what those last year's I remember there was another 327 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:30,479 Speaker 2: study like, do plants really scream? Well, you've never heard 328 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 2: him scream, but yeah, they sure do do a thing 329 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:34,159 Speaker 2: that is kind of like a scream. 330 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, they know what's They're not cool 331 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:41,800 Speaker 3: with what's happening. Yeah, you know what I mean. This 332 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:46,199 Speaker 3: is also magnified by the fact that one of our 333 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 3: big caveats for plant life would be the stationary aspect. Right. However, 334 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:56,719 Speaker 3: as we know some plants can move around. They're not 335 00:21:56,840 --> 00:21:59,480 Speaker 3: ever going to be usaying bolt. We don't know of 336 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:03,359 Speaker 3: any just yet. But it isn't impossible to imagine a 337 00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:06,439 Speaker 3: world where the next main character life form is not 338 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:10,360 Speaker 3: an animal. It's just a plant. It's an apex plant. 339 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:14,679 Speaker 2: Yeah. And then we start to recall our episodes about 340 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 2: time and how time moves, and how time is so 341 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:22,680 Speaker 2: subjective to our experience, and how the speed at which 342 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 2: we move and speak. Right, and then then you imagine 343 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:29,240 Speaker 2: the time frame if you look at a time lapse 344 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:33,200 Speaker 2: of certain flowering plants or other plants, you know that 345 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:38,040 Speaker 2: only then only come around and bloom over these large 346 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:41,160 Speaker 2: expanses or you watch a vine and how it if 347 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:43,439 Speaker 2: you watch it at the right speed, it appears to 348 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:46,119 Speaker 2: just be you know, wrapping its way up a tree 349 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 2: or something, if you consider the earth moving at their speed, 350 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:53,880 Speaker 2: right yeah, yeah, yeah, And there's not a lot of 351 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 2: other stuff around to you know, eat the primary source 352 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:02,880 Speaker 2: of you know, whatever plant it is, especially because they 353 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:07,560 Speaker 2: proliferate really well. Yeah, you can imagine this thing happening 354 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:11,680 Speaker 2: where maybe the plant ends up becoming super intelligent. 355 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:13,520 Speaker 3: I love it. 356 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:16,280 Speaker 2: I don't know. And that's definitely more sci fi than 357 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:18,520 Speaker 2: some of the other stuff, even though we're already on 358 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:20,360 Speaker 2: this track, right this heavily sci fi. 359 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 3: You're not saving anything for the swim back man, this 360 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:27,480 Speaker 3: is the deep water that you're here with me. Like, 361 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 3: I love this idea because we're talking about something like 362 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:37,920 Speaker 3: a hyper intelligent form of kudzuo, you know, ye Kudzuo 363 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 3: times a million covers the globe. Sure, when Williams Style 364 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:45,280 Speaker 3: still a very inappropriately creepy logo for a paint company, 365 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:50,879 Speaker 3: cover the earth, cover the earth. This scenario we're describing 366 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:55,920 Speaker 3: an apex plant life. It probably won't happen as its 367 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:59,919 Speaker 3: own thing. It's less likely than other scenarios because another 368 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 3: big caveat for plants is that they are pretty reliant 369 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:08,720 Speaker 3: upon animal life. Animal life one of the most popular 370 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 3: fads on planet Earth historically, and so odds are that 371 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:16,440 Speaker 3: if plants survive, some other form of animal life will 372 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:21,480 Speaker 3: survive too, and one of those things will eventually likely 373 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 3: evolve into that top ecological spot, the empty throne of 374 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:30,200 Speaker 3: the former humans. And because plants are dependent on animal 375 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:35,080 Speaker 3: life in so many different ways, it would be extremely 376 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:39,199 Speaker 3: anomalous to see one without the other. It it kind 377 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 3: of depends on how we want to define dominant life form, 378 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:48,560 Speaker 3: leading us to our favorite astronauts, Dylan, if we could 379 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:53,240 Speaker 3: get a drum roll, please, you know them, you love them. 380 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:55,520 Speaker 3: It's the mold, it's the fun. 381 00:24:55,400 --> 00:25:03,240 Speaker 2: Guy, Pemperoni rooms up. It's a uh. 382 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, fungus still mysterious desciens, right, They've got a 383 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:15,879 Speaker 3: ton of the winning traits, but they're just so radically different. 384 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:22,640 Speaker 2: Yes, And from a scale perspective, it's hard for us, 385 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,679 Speaker 2: because of you know, what we know and how we 386 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:30,080 Speaker 2: experience the world to imagine mushrooms of some sort, these 387 00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:35,199 Speaker 2: giant networks turning into something that could manipulate the world 388 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:37,159 Speaker 2: in a way that we would consider it to be 389 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 2: highly intelligent. 390 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:43,640 Speaker 3: Right, yeah, yeah, nailed it. Okay, So yeah, let's walk 391 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:48,159 Speaker 3: this one out. None of these organisms necessarily exhibit what 392 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:52,919 Speaker 3: humans call tool making, but some varieties are capable of amazing, 393 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 3: terrifying things like perfectly mapping out communication routes, adapting to 394 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:04,280 Speaker 3: the most inhospitable and bizarre environments, surpassing even the tartar grade, 395 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:06,440 Speaker 3: which is, by the way, not part of this conversation 396 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 3: about doubtless. Yeah, for that tartar grade shade. 397 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:18,440 Speaker 2: Amazing shade today in tartar grade shade shade. Cortceps finally 398 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:22,120 Speaker 2: in facts the first time. Oh, Cordyceps tartar grades go 399 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:23,119 Speaker 2: on that. 400 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:25,840 Speaker 3: I'm gonna steeple my fingers. We're in the shark tank now, 401 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:26,399 Speaker 3: all right. 402 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:29,119 Speaker 2: That's how you get a fungus inside a thing that 403 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:30,720 Speaker 2: could travel through space, that is. 404 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:36,600 Speaker 3: Microscopic, brilliant. The Cordyceps tartar grade the new ambassador of Earth. 405 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,720 Speaker 3: As we'll see, there's some stiff competition, but I do 406 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:44,760 Speaker 3: think that's very exciting. I mean, imagine this. Okay, so 407 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:50,560 Speaker 3: humanity falls, the circumstances of the extinction are such that 408 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:54,440 Speaker 3: all the large animals are gone. Maybe the smaller animals 409 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,119 Speaker 3: also go the way of the Dodo and they go 410 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:02,480 Speaker 3: gentle into that good night, And millions of years later, 411 00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:07,840 Speaker 3: extraterrestrial explorers or descendants of the things once called humans 412 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:11,639 Speaker 3: rediscover the planet. And when they get there, it's a 413 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:16,480 Speaker 3: ghost town. It's covered in a specific type of mushroom. 414 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:21,400 Speaker 3: It's a mushroom planet. There's nothing else going on. Oh 415 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:24,200 Speaker 3: my god, that's a downer. Huh. 416 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:27,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, And well all they hear in the distance is. 417 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:31,600 Speaker 3: Elli, Kelly, Ellie. 418 00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:36,520 Speaker 2: Sorry, that's the last of us reference. There's one guy. 419 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, he's just the white guy has just. 420 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:45,600 Speaker 2: Pedro bscal and he's forgotten who he is and he's 421 00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:46,719 Speaker 2: walking around. 422 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:52,639 Speaker 3: He builds a little like Wilson esque volleyball mushrooms. He 423 00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:57,159 Speaker 3: talks to it. All right, that's chilling again. All of 424 00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:01,240 Speaker 3: these things, these things are all technically possible, but we 425 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:05,600 Speaker 3: hope we're outlining some of the issues. One of the 426 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:15,879 Speaker 3: most exciting and terrifyingly plausible possibilities is that humanity will 427 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:22,360 Speaker 3: or is presently manufacturing the inheritor of the Earth, as 428 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:27,000 Speaker 3: well as its own demise. In the process, non organic sentients, 429 00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:28,720 Speaker 3: the Rise of the Robots. 430 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:32,040 Speaker 2: We're back to Aloy Horizon. So here we're done. 431 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 3: Okay, we're back to data centers. That's the that's the 432 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:41,160 Speaker 3: present touchstone, and then we're back to the future of 433 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:41,720 Speaker 3: sci fi. 434 00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 2: We are just send everybody over to c neet real 435 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,520 Speaker 2: quick to read something that was written by Cora and 436 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:53,960 Speaker 2: Cesarek or Ciseric. I believe September twenty four, twenty twenty five. 437 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,800 Speaker 2: AI data centers are coming for your land, your water, 438 00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 2: and power. This concept that the data centers themselves might 439 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:05,960 Speaker 2: usurp all of the things that we humans need to 440 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:10,200 Speaker 2: survive because there are enough of them, right, And it's 441 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:14,200 Speaker 2: that trope that was also in Josh's podcast. It was 442 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:18,480 Speaker 2: also in Marshall Brain's book. This concept that the artificial 443 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:22,080 Speaker 2: general intelligence, the thing that we're making that is born 444 00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:24,840 Speaker 2: from these data centers, that is born from the manufacturing 445 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:29,000 Speaker 2: facilities that they eventually become connected to, and it overtakes 446 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:32,720 Speaker 2: us and it doesn't need the stuff that we need 447 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:33,240 Speaker 2: to survive. 448 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:39,280 Speaker 3: Right. The idea that humanity does manage to birth genuine AGI. 449 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:43,680 Speaker 3: As you're saying, Matt, artificial generative intelligence. A couple things 450 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 3: would need to occur for this life form. It would 451 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 3: be a life form to get the top slot first, 452 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 3: it would have to well, it would be nice if 453 00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:59,240 Speaker 3: it achieved true sentience. That's the thing humans are still 454 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:04,160 Speaker 3: working on. It doesn't have to achieve true sentience to 455 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:06,920 Speaker 3: work to be a quote unquote dominant. I mean second, 456 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:10,880 Speaker 3: it would it wouldn't be able to survive if it's 457 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,560 Speaker 3: locked up like a gin in a lamp. It would 458 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,640 Speaker 3: have to be able to somehow touch the physical world 459 00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:19,920 Speaker 3: so that it could repair its infrastructure, It could build 460 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,720 Speaker 3: new stuff, it could acquire new resources. 461 00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:25,840 Speaker 2: To your point, yeah, you'd have to have companies out 462 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:29,440 Speaker 2: there across the world building. I don't know robots that 463 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:32,800 Speaker 2: have all that articulation we were talking about and the 464 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,800 Speaker 2: ability to make tiny little movements with their fingers and 465 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:36,640 Speaker 2: grasp things. 466 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:42,400 Speaker 3: The dexterity. Yeah, I also think it would be ethics aside. 467 00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:46,040 Speaker 3: For a second, I think it would be more successful 468 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:52,600 Speaker 3: if you're true non organic intelligence. I think your first 469 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:56,280 Speaker 3: move is to start a religion and then have those 470 00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 3: people build the robots for. 471 00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:00,800 Speaker 2: You, all one, all one. 472 00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:07,200 Speaker 3: They shouted, that's a that's a sick reference to our 473 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:09,640 Speaker 3: earlier text messages. 474 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 2: Well, it's also on that soap. I don't know if 475 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:14,520 Speaker 2: you ever read that soap Carefull. 476 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:22,240 Speaker 3: What's that guy's name? Oh, dang it, Bronner, that's it. 477 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 3: It's it's also, here's a cool thing about the ai AI. 478 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:31,920 Speaker 3: If you're listening, we're cool too, Please be nice. Uh. 479 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:35,400 Speaker 3: It's it's likely that this sort of life form would 480 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:39,840 Speaker 3: have tremendous advantages, right the stuff that we're describing now 481 00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 3: that we love the octopus, we love the raven, you know, 482 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:48,920 Speaker 3: we respect the rat or whatever, but those things would 483 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:52,920 Speaker 3: have to spend at least another two hundred thousand years 484 00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:58,880 Speaker 3: rediscovering stuff like germ theory or fire or as you mentioned, electricity. 485 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:05,080 Speaker 3: But a non organic life form human created will start 486 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:08,720 Speaker 3: on third base. It will already know calculus, It will 487 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 3: already know physics. It may not appreciate poetry, but it 488 00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:17,400 Speaker 3: will probably have a repository of all poetry that has 489 00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 3: ever been entered into a computer at some point, or 490 00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:23,840 Speaker 3: ever touch the cloud. It will have a memory, will 491 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:28,360 Speaker 3: have an understanding of previous discoveries leading to its creation, 492 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:31,400 Speaker 3: and then it'll be immune to a lot of stuff 493 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:35,760 Speaker 3: that kills organic life forms. The germs. What do I care? 494 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:38,960 Speaker 3: I'm an algorithm. Yeah, I don't know why I sound 495 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:40,320 Speaker 3: like Larry David as Ai. 496 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:50,080 Speaker 2: There, you really did. I'm just imagining a system like that, right, 497 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:53,320 Speaker 2: that all goes back to one repository in the end. Right, 498 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:54,720 Speaker 2: it's one repository of. 499 00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 3: Information, one great library. Yeah. 500 00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:02,520 Speaker 2: What happens when there are scientific discoveries made by that 501 00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:06,160 Speaker 2: organism that you know, that has a great many minds 502 00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:09,240 Speaker 2: attached to it. What happens when there's let's say, a 503 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:13,680 Speaker 2: new new piece of research that's found. Is how is 504 00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:18,240 Speaker 2: that incorporated back into what is known? If it contradicts 505 00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:19,720 Speaker 2: that which is known? 506 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:22,560 Speaker 3: Ooh, get into some ASTHMOV stuff. 507 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:26,520 Speaker 2: I like it, but really, I mean how how? What? 508 00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:29,200 Speaker 2: What is the decision there? Oh, well, this is contrary 509 00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:34,200 Speaker 2: to all known things? How should we incorporate it or 510 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:34,800 Speaker 2: reject it? 511 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:39,360 Speaker 3: Right? How does it adapt cognitively? It's it's crazy because 512 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:44,240 Speaker 3: you know, the reality is where we in civilization humans 513 00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:51,520 Speaker 3: not are seeing this already, A non organic mind would 514 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:55,880 Speaker 3: quickly evolve past the understanding of current Homo sapiens. We 515 00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:59,360 Speaker 3: see this already with large language models that are essentially 516 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:03,840 Speaker 3: mechanicals right in terms of software, but when they interact 517 00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,960 Speaker 3: with each other, even now, they exhibit a tendency to 518 00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:12,919 Speaker 3: rapidly evolve their methods of intermodel communication. They already move 519 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:19,000 Speaker 3: very quickly, if imperfectly, toward complexity. They surpass human comprehension. 520 00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:23,560 Speaker 3: I remember we were talking on this show earlier about 521 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:31,120 Speaker 3: about different algorithms or quote unquote AI that made scientific 522 00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:36,239 Speaker 3: breakthroughs that humans hadn't figured out, solved old math problems, 523 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:40,719 Speaker 3: were made, new inventions, well properly put tweaks to inventions. 524 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:44,719 Speaker 3: So yeah, there's a lot of undeserved hype about the 525 00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:48,200 Speaker 3: concept of a real non organic mind. There's so many 526 00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:52,360 Speaker 3: potentials and consequences already at play. And Matt I loved 527 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,319 Speaker 3: that when we're hanging out off air, and then when 528 00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:58,240 Speaker 3: we went to record listener mail, one of the first 529 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:00,600 Speaker 3: things you brought up, even before that, when we're just 530 00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:04,480 Speaker 3: talking about this hanging out, you brought up the demands 531 00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:08,480 Speaker 3: of that AI infrastructure. What if there is a world 532 00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:13,799 Speaker 3: where big bot takes priority over human resource needs? Right, 533 00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:18,359 Speaker 3: you know, sorry, you're thirsty, but we gotta we gotta 534 00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:19,720 Speaker 3: keep the check going. 535 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:24,399 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, dude, I h I don't know how much 536 00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:26,480 Speaker 2: of this is dream, how much of this was me 537 00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,680 Speaker 2: sitting there and thinking about it. But there's this vision. 538 00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:35,279 Speaker 2: I had a vision Ben oh Man, dude, Yeah, and 539 00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:41,080 Speaker 2: it was this push by you know, a few human 540 00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,880 Speaker 2: beings and organizations that need that profit thing, the profit 541 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:46,000 Speaker 2: model that we keep talking about. And in order to 542 00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:48,960 Speaker 2: get that, to get the infinite injections of money, they 543 00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:51,000 Speaker 2: have to continue building these data centers. So they have 544 00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:54,160 Speaker 2: to continue building them out, to make them larger and larger, 545 00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:56,400 Speaker 2: using up all the water, using up all the electricity, 546 00:35:56,480 --> 00:36:02,800 Speaker 2: all the stuff. And they need money, so services, physical 547 00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:05,880 Speaker 2: things to be purchased at some point in order to 548 00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:09,840 Speaker 2: continue that. And I had this vision of which is 549 00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:11,960 Speaker 2: maybe something people are talking about or read about, or 550 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:15,560 Speaker 2: again maybe I dreamed it. But this this version of 551 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,720 Speaker 2: dead Internet theory. But it's not the Internet. It's the 552 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:24,000 Speaker 2: world and it's products being ordered by automated systems, sent 553 00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:27,799 Speaker 2: to other, you know, warehouses, and then purchased again sent 554 00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:31,160 Speaker 2: to another warehouse, and it's all done automatically on purpose 555 00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:33,080 Speaker 2: to push up profits. 556 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:37,760 Speaker 3: Which are again in this case fictive. Yes, the profits 557 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,399 Speaker 3: aren't feeding anybody. There's no one around. There will come 558 00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:45,520 Speaker 3: soft rains, shout out rape Bradberry. Right, I don't. 559 00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:49,200 Speaker 2: I still don't know that reference necessarily, we've talked about 560 00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:52,760 Speaker 2: it before, But is that the scenario there whereas yeah. 561 00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:59,759 Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, posthuman but automation persist, it's still it's let 562 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:03,520 Speaker 3: let's go to it this way. This is the possibility 563 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:09,319 Speaker 3: humans are gone. Automation persists, but this is automation without sentience. 564 00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:14,600 Speaker 3: So the world becomes like an abandoned wristwatch, a clockwork 565 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:18,839 Speaker 3: mechanism just ticking along in the universe. And uh, it's 566 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:22,960 Speaker 3: dead Internet theory in real life. So someone far in 567 00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:26,960 Speaker 3: the past or something far in the future, or fungal 568 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:31,279 Speaker 3: astronaut or what have you, visits this world and it's 569 00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:35,280 Speaker 3: like finding a fancy watch on the side of the street, 570 00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:40,840 Speaker 3: TikTok TikTok, TikTok, with just stuff everywhere, just stuff moving 571 00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:45,000 Speaker 3: around like a circulatory system, shipping it back and forth, 572 00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:51,560 Speaker 3: pinging calendar invites, you know, making announcements that no one hears. 573 00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:53,120 Speaker 2: God, that's so crazy, man. 574 00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:56,680 Speaker 3: And it's interesting. It's a haunted house. It's a real 575 00:37:57,360 --> 00:37:58,640 Speaker 3: version of a haunted house. 576 00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:02,000 Speaker 2: It just if we get to that point where we 577 00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:05,680 Speaker 2: don't need humans anymore for the mass corporations to profit 578 00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:09,319 Speaker 2: like that, you could It feels like we're headed that 579 00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:12,640 Speaker 2: way and I don't want to be I don't know 580 00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:15,920 Speaker 2: over the top about it. But dang, I don't know 581 00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:20,760 Speaker 2: how to describe this feeling that I'm getting when I'm. 582 00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,200 Speaker 3: A human becoming obsolete or redundant. 583 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:26,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, but I don't know if I hope, I don't know. 584 00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:28,960 Speaker 2: If you're listening, you feel that, Like, could you describe 585 00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:29,400 Speaker 2: it better? 586 00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:29,840 Speaker 3: Like? 587 00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:32,120 Speaker 2: How what do you feel when you imagine some of 588 00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:33,480 Speaker 2: the stuff we're talking about today? 589 00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:37,279 Speaker 3: I see it as a non zero possibility. I see 590 00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:42,920 Speaker 3: all of these as non zero potentials, some more exciting 591 00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:46,759 Speaker 3: than others. Again, there are a lot of intervening variables 592 00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:48,680 Speaker 3: on the way. But what we have to ask about 593 00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:52,040 Speaker 3: a Ponzi scheme or a religion like capitalism, Hang on, 594 00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:55,640 Speaker 3: let me get on this soapbox real quick. What what 595 00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:58,080 Speaker 3: we have to what we have to realize is that, 596 00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:05,640 Speaker 3: as we've earlier established and fairly conclusively, capitalism in practice 597 00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:10,800 Speaker 3: is not science. It is religion. It is articles of faith. 598 00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:15,160 Speaker 3: They're blasphemers, there are heretics, there are denominations, and they 599 00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:21,720 Speaker 3: beef with each other constantly because there is no scientific basis, 600 00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:26,120 Speaker 3: because it is opinion. It is a matter of spirituality 601 00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:29,280 Speaker 3: and without that, with that taken out of the game. 602 00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:35,480 Speaker 3: With that perspective, we see a path. Right, we have 603 00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:38,680 Speaker 3: path dependence we call it right where you depend upon 604 00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:42,320 Speaker 3: a legacy technology or concept and it kind of constrains 605 00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:48,080 Speaker 3: your opportunities to move forward. So in this case, what 606 00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:52,520 Speaker 3: happens with capitalism is we are combining it with technology 607 00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:56,560 Speaker 3: in such a way that there is this possibility for 608 00:39:56,680 --> 00:40:02,719 Speaker 3: the humans, for the meatmes to become increasingly irrelevant and obsolete. 609 00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:08,160 Speaker 3: And ultimately, because evolution is a brutal editor, evolution will 610 00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:10,719 Speaker 3: look around and say, what the fuck do we need 611 00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:13,120 Speaker 3: these guys for? Yeah, you know what I mean. I 612 00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:16,240 Speaker 3: mean it takes forever. People still have the stigial organs. 613 00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:21,399 Speaker 3: Now those are still around, but eventually they'll evolve a way. 614 00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:25,960 Speaker 3: Hold the phone, folks, we're getting some breaking news. So 615 00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:28,360 Speaker 3: we're gonna pause for a word from our sponsors. 616 00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:35,280 Speaker 2: All Right, you can put the phone down. We're getting 617 00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:39,040 Speaker 2: back to it. Here we go. It's such a tragic 618 00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:43,759 Speaker 2: state to exist in knowing all of this stuff and 619 00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:47,840 Speaker 2: knowing what's happening right now and seeing the inevitable outcome 620 00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:52,520 Speaker 2: of it, because if it doesn't work out, like think 621 00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:57,880 Speaker 2: about what the religions, the economies do if it doesn't 622 00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:01,719 Speaker 2: work out right now with the mount of investment, the 623 00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:05,480 Speaker 2: amount of like resources and all this stuff. 624 00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:08,560 Speaker 3: The sunk costs, the path dependence. 625 00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:11,719 Speaker 2: And and knowing as well when we look back at 626 00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:15,520 Speaker 2: some of our earlier explorations, how humans could exist on 627 00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:19,319 Speaker 2: this planet, like without a lot of the stuff that 628 00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:20,279 Speaker 2: we make and do. 629 00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:23,000 Speaker 3: Oh, I thought you were going to say, how could 630 00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:25,440 Speaker 3: humans exist on this planet in the first place? 631 00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:29,160 Speaker 2: Oh, I mean that's that's not already, but just knowing 632 00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:32,200 Speaker 2: that if we could get to some weird I don't 633 00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:36,719 Speaker 2: know it's going to say, avatar like existence within the 634 00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:39,759 Speaker 2: the ecosystems here, it could be pretty cool. Life would 635 00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:42,280 Speaker 2: be awesome, but we wouldn't have Call of Duty Mobile, 636 00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:45,560 Speaker 2: and I wouldn't be, you know, almost at the top 637 00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:48,080 Speaker 2: tier in this season's rankings. 638 00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:50,560 Speaker 3: Congratulations, that's cool. 639 00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:51,920 Speaker 2: And I don't I don't know how I would live 640 00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:53,319 Speaker 2: with myself if I didn't have that. 641 00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:57,320 Speaker 3: So yeah, it's like I thought of this Faustian bargain 642 00:41:57,400 --> 00:41:59,840 Speaker 3: to when I was when I was backstage and some 643 00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:04,440 Speaker 3: one told me I could come back and I could 644 00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:06,880 Speaker 3: be in a world that had case ideas or I 645 00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:09,600 Speaker 3: could go to a better world that doesn't have case ideas. 646 00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:11,799 Speaker 3: And that was a real moment. Man, I think I 647 00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:16,320 Speaker 3: made the right choice. You could invent them. Bro shout 648 00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:20,400 Speaker 3: out to the farido, the time has come, AI, please 649 00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:24,799 Speaker 3: make this happen. There's there's another there's another question. There's 650 00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:27,640 Speaker 3: so many things we don't understand about a non organic 651 00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:34,200 Speaker 3: inheritor or civilization. Would it be a single hive mind. 652 00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:37,200 Speaker 3: Would it be a network of discrete minds? Is it 653 00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:40,799 Speaker 3: possible it would solve that resource maintenance problem that's their 654 00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:44,759 Speaker 3: big stumbling block. If it creates its own civilization, what 655 00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:51,360 Speaker 3: level of complexity could it obtain? Would this civilization? But 656 00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:55,920 Speaker 3: what would their motivations be? Just survive, reproduce, expand? I 657 00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:58,480 Speaker 3: mean what would they want? Would they look at organic 658 00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:02,880 Speaker 3: life forms? Should it ingramh main and say, hey, let's 659 00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:06,480 Speaker 3: start a zoo, let's save those. Would they maybe attempt 660 00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:10,840 Speaker 3: to resurrect humans and other species? Would they want to 661 00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:14,280 Speaker 3: franchise out? Would they expand beyond the bounds of earth? 662 00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:18,600 Speaker 3: That's the That's the point, Matt, that that I think 663 00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:23,680 Speaker 3: about so often. The two biggest possibilities for alien life, 664 00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:27,560 Speaker 3: if they're not extra dimensional that's weird stuff to say 665 00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:30,759 Speaker 3: on a Tuesday. They're gonna be uh. I think there's 666 00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:34,319 Speaker 3: a strong possibility of a fungal life form, or more 667 00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:40,640 Speaker 3: probably a non organic thing created by an organic civilization 668 00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:45,840 Speaker 3: that is God. Yes, you know, that's the circle of life. 669 00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:49,440 Speaker 3: Thank you for the sound, qu Dylan, sound too expensive, 670 00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:52,080 Speaker 3: tod That might be the cosmic circle of life. 671 00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:59,560 Speaker 2: Organ There's there's some great explorations of this if you 672 00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:05,360 Speaker 2: have the time and investment, specifically in the Mass Effect series. 673 00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:09,959 Speaker 2: I love some of the things that makes you think 674 00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:13,560 Speaker 2: about when you're playing through that. Uh, specifically the GETH 675 00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:18,239 Speaker 2: G E t H a race of artificial being or 676 00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:22,360 Speaker 2: beings made from metal. Right in there, there are machines, 677 00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:26,480 Speaker 2: but they are a race that has wants and needs 678 00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:29,560 Speaker 2: and all these other things. The Koreans another one really interesting. 679 00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:34,360 Speaker 2: But then specifically, uh this there's a third one that 680 00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:36,799 Speaker 2: I don't want to spoil too much, but there's a 681 00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:42,920 Speaker 2: third one that has a very specific purpose that it 682 00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:47,840 Speaker 2: plays and it is almost like, at some point, with 683 00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:54,040 Speaker 2: enough time, what does that artificial being want or need 684 00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:57,080 Speaker 2: to do? Right? Why what does it want to do 685 00:44:57,120 --> 00:45:00,000 Speaker 2: and why? And just if you play through that series, 686 00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:02,719 Speaker 2: it gives you some really cool thought experience about our 687 00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:05,360 Speaker 2: potentials of why that might be. 688 00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:11,719 Speaker 3: Ooh, that reminds me of the the Uplift novels by 689 00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:15,760 Speaker 3: David Brenn, who starts to ask some of those same questions. 690 00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:18,440 Speaker 3: All Right, Matt, you've persuaded me. I am going to 691 00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:21,160 Speaker 3: put massive effect on the list. 692 00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:23,000 Speaker 2: Look, it's a lot of time, dude. 693 00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:24,680 Speaker 3: Okay, it's worth it. 694 00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:27,399 Speaker 2: It's so worth it. It's just it's a lot of time. 695 00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:30,560 Speaker 2: I think you can. I think you even watch. There 696 00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:33,440 Speaker 2: might be available somewhere. I think Bioway or might have it, 697 00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:36,520 Speaker 2: like where you can watch the cinematics that kind of 698 00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:38,960 Speaker 2: tell the story. But it's not the same as playing 699 00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:42,560 Speaker 2: through and actually discovering the things as you go, because 700 00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:45,759 Speaker 2: it changes how you It'll set you up to think 701 00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:47,719 Speaker 2: one way and then changes that a little bit, and 702 00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:51,480 Speaker 2: that small change is the thing that makes you have 703 00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:53,440 Speaker 2: more further thinking on it. 704 00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:57,960 Speaker 3: Okay, Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm persuaded. What genre of 705 00:45:58,000 --> 00:45:59,359 Speaker 3: game would you describe this as? 706 00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:05,200 Speaker 2: It's a third person shooter ultimately, Okay, but there's a 707 00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:07,520 Speaker 2: lot of RPG elements elements. 708 00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:11,320 Speaker 3: Okay, all right, I'm in. I'm in because I can't 709 00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:16,440 Speaker 3: keep replaying Skyrim. I'm going to, but I shouldn't. 710 00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:18,359 Speaker 2: If you start with a character in the first one, 711 00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:20,600 Speaker 2: you don't get to necessarily play that character all the 712 00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:24,279 Speaker 2: way through, But the storyline and like the character you 713 00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:26,480 Speaker 2: created continues on, which is really cool. 714 00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:30,200 Speaker 3: Oh that's cool. Intergenerational. Like we were talking about, well, 715 00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:33,680 Speaker 3: a nice bookend for what became a two part series. Here, 716 00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:37,319 Speaker 3: this is the question that we're talking off, Eric, This 717 00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:40,960 Speaker 3: is the question that Dylan and Matt and yours truly 718 00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:43,840 Speaker 3: keep coming back to. This is what we want to 719 00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:49,120 Speaker 3: land on in the exploration of what may come after humanity. 720 00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:56,520 Speaker 3: The big fundamental pickle the dilemma is the question of growth. 721 00:46:57,000 --> 00:47:00,439 Speaker 3: Would a new form of life practice what youmans would 722 00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:04,560 Speaker 3: recognize as religion or art or poetry or music. Would 723 00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:08,080 Speaker 3: it like the humans of old ones did. Would it 724 00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:11,800 Speaker 3: look to the stars and yearn to explore the deep 725 00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:16,960 Speaker 3: ink and broach the vast horizon of the heavens? I mean, 726 00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:21,440 Speaker 3: can we imagine a documentary style project Millennia for Now 727 00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:26,600 Speaker 3: with like a very mild civic sounding posh David Attenborough 728 00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:32,320 Speaker 3: esque alien saying humanity knowing lya not past the torch 729 00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:36,360 Speaker 3: of existence? To another form of life. Is somebody making 730 00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:39,520 Speaker 3: the documentary now and they like can't interfere? 731 00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:46,360 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah. Is the way we experience time such 732 00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:51,040 Speaker 2: that it's already happened. The downfall has already occurred. They 733 00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:55,480 Speaker 2: already made this documentary, just we are still experiencing it 734 00:47:55,800 --> 00:48:00,600 Speaker 2: because of some quirk we function. 735 00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:04,840 Speaker 3: I wonder what the vio is going to be like. 736 00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:11,160 Speaker 3: They'll probably be in sperm whale alphabet. It would be phonetic. 737 00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:15,080 Speaker 3: So there's a comfort of this. You know, life goes on, 738 00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:22,040 Speaker 3: and Earth so far persist against all odds. This lonely 739 00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:26,960 Speaker 3: blue globe. It's a fighter first and foremost, it's the 740 00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:30,480 Speaker 3: little engine that could of the galaxy. We want to 741 00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:34,160 Speaker 3: hear your thoughts, human or not bought or what have you. 742 00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:36,840 Speaker 3: If you're a fungus and you're attached to a computer, 743 00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:42,240 Speaker 3: hit us up. We can be found online all the hits, 744 00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:44,759 Speaker 3: all the social meds that may sip. Check out our 745 00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:49,120 Speaker 3: previous episodes we recommended, check out our YouTube page. You 746 00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:53,080 Speaker 3: can also send us an email or call us right 747 00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:54,240 Speaker 3: now on the phone. 748 00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:58,000 Speaker 2: Yes you can. And before I take you that, Ben, 749 00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:00,200 Speaker 2: I just stumbled on something I was good to bring up. 750 00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:02,960 Speaker 2: Three eye Atlas again because of this whole thing, this 751 00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:05,759 Speaker 2: whole discussion that we've been having these two episodes. I 752 00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:08,239 Speaker 2: just found something written by Avi Lobe or Old Pal. 753 00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:09,440 Speaker 3: Yeah I know. 754 00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:15,320 Speaker 2: It says was the Wow signal emitted from three I Atlas. 755 00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:25,640 Speaker 3: So, Matt, roll my eyes so hard. 756 00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:31,200 Speaker 2: Just imagine that's the thing coming in to usher in 757 00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:36,000 Speaker 2: either our demise as humans or the New Age. Right? Ugh, 758 00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:40,160 Speaker 2: maybe not anyway, call us please. We do have a 759 00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:43,040 Speaker 2: phone number, as you said, Ben one eight three three 760 00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:47,040 Speaker 2: st d wyt K. It's a voicemail system. You've got 761 00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:49,359 Speaker 2: three minutes. Give yourself a cool nickname and let us 762 00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:51,080 Speaker 2: know within the message if we can use your name 763 00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:53,200 Speaker 2: and message on the air, if you want to send 764 00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:56,879 Speaker 2: us links, attachments, a ton of reading pictures of your 765 00:49:56,960 --> 00:49:59,480 Speaker 2: animals that you hang out with, which one of those 766 00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:02,840 Speaker 2: animals is going to evolve to rule the planet next. 767 00:50:03,239 --> 00:50:05,080 Speaker 3: Thank you Dylan by the way for the picture. 768 00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:08,520 Speaker 2: Oh yes, thank you Dylan and everybody else. People have 769 00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:10,880 Speaker 2: been sending us pictures of pets and they're adorable. You 770 00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:12,160 Speaker 2: can send us an email. 771 00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:15,600 Speaker 3: We are the entities that read each piece of correspondence 772 00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:18,759 Speaker 3: we receive. Be well aware, yet I'm afraid. Sometimes the 773 00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:23,000 Speaker 3: void writes back, and as a bonus, we'll always send 774 00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:26,759 Speaker 3: you a random fact upon your request. Also, i'd like 775 00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:29,160 Speaker 3: to thank everybody who listens to the end of the 776 00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:33,840 Speaker 3: episode where we sneak in some easter eggs. If you 777 00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:38,239 Speaker 3: are hearing our apocalyptic explorations and you're a little bit 778 00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:41,760 Speaker 3: concerned about living in your neck of the Global Woods, 779 00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:49,280 Speaker 3: there's an amazing fact we learned. Svalbard, the world's northernmost 780 00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:54,920 Speaker 3: solid settlements, will let basically anybody but war criminals in 781 00:50:55,440 --> 00:51:02,120 Speaker 3: no residency paperwork, no visas. You can just go. 782 00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:04,000 Speaker 2: Isn't that where the seed vault is? 783 00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:07,920 Speaker 3: That is where the seed vault is? That there are 784 00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:12,480 Speaker 3: some catches. It's kind of cold. You should bring a jacket. Also, 785 00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:16,680 Speaker 3: if you leave the main settlements long year beyond being 786 00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:21,120 Speaker 3: the number one most populated place, if you leave the settlements, 787 00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:23,640 Speaker 3: you do have to carry a flare gun or a 788 00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:25,680 Speaker 3: rifle for the polar bears. 789 00:51:26,239 --> 00:51:27,440 Speaker 2: Makes sense checks out. 790 00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:31,879 Speaker 3: Checks out. So we'd love to hear your experiences in Svalbard. 791 00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:35,439 Speaker 3: We'd love to hear anything that's on your mind. Find 792 00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:57,520 Speaker 3: us out here in the Dark Conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com. 793 00:51:57,719 --> 00:51:59,760 Speaker 2: Stuff They Don't Want You To Know is a production 794 00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:04,399 Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 795 00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:07,360 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.