WEBVTT - TechStuff Classic: Are we living in a computer simulation? 0:00:04.240 --> 0:00:07.240 Welcome to tech Stuff, a production of I Heart Radios 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:13.800 How Stuff Works. Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. 0:00:13.840 --> 0:00:17.200 I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with 0:00:17.280 --> 0:00:20.560 I Heart Radio and I love all things tech than Today, 0:00:20.960 --> 0:00:24.440 we're going to examine a classic episode of tech Stuff. 0:00:24.440 --> 0:00:27.280 It's a Friday, so it's time for another classic, and 0:00:27.360 --> 0:00:31.840 today's topic is are we living in a computer simulation? 0:00:32.479 --> 0:00:35.680 This is a philosophical question that has received a lot 0:00:35.720 --> 0:00:40.360 of attention and back in Lauren Voge Obama and I 0:00:40.440 --> 0:00:42.680 really thought it'd be a lot of fun to explore 0:00:43.159 --> 0:00:47.680 that whole concept. So enjoy this classic episode do we 0:00:47.840 --> 0:00:52.280 live in a computer simulation? And in fact, the reason 0:00:52.320 --> 0:00:55.920 why we're even talking about this is a few years 0:00:55.920 --> 0:01:00.400 ago a philosopher, and boy is that a surprise, no one. 0:01:00.720 --> 0:01:04.959 A philosopher by the name of Nick Bostrom who works 0:01:05.000 --> 0:01:10.440 at a little um yeah tiny, like in academic circles. 0:01:10.440 --> 0:01:15.240 They have some swagger. It's the University of Oxford. Yeah, yeah, 0:01:15.280 --> 0:01:19.800 as far as the boffins go at Swagger City, right anyway, Yeah, 0:01:19.880 --> 0:01:22.200 he works at the University of Oxford and he's a 0:01:22.400 --> 0:01:26.640 philosopher employed there. Who so his job is to sit 0:01:26.680 --> 0:01:29.039 around and think about the nature of reality. And he 0:01:29.120 --> 0:01:32.840 presented an interesting thought experiment. He said, do we live 0:01:32.880 --> 0:01:37.320 in a computer simulation? Is everything that we experience and 0:01:37.360 --> 0:01:41.960 everything that's around us actually just the product of some 0:01:42.080 --> 0:01:46.199 sort of computer program in a universe larger than our own? 0:01:46.640 --> 0:01:49.000 And we'll talk about you know. What led him into 0:01:49.040 --> 0:01:53.160 this kind of line of thinking and his arguments presenting 0:01:53.680 --> 0:01:56.320 the likelihood that we are actually in a computer simulation. 0:01:56.520 --> 0:01:59.600 But before we begin in that, I thought it'd be 0:01:59.600 --> 0:02:03.560 interesting to look back quite a way. Is actually because 0:02:03.760 --> 0:02:08.680 this idea that reality as we understand it is not 0:02:08.680 --> 0:02:12.680 not exactly new at all. We've been pondering for basically 0:02:12.960 --> 0:02:15.440 as long as we could ponder things, whether or not 0:02:15.720 --> 0:02:19.360 our our experience of reality is reality. Yeah, and and 0:02:19.400 --> 0:02:21.560 part of that is understandable. I mean, we know for 0:02:21.600 --> 0:02:25.079 a fact that reality consists of stuff that is beyond 0:02:25.240 --> 0:02:28.880 our perception, right, Oh, sure, absolutely. Like I don't know 0:02:28.919 --> 0:02:31.680 when the last time you looked into the infrared spectrum was, 0:02:31.720 --> 0:02:33.639 but the last time for me was never because it's 0:02:33.639 --> 0:02:37.880 outside my visual acuity. I can't see in the infrared spectrum, 0:02:37.880 --> 0:02:40.360 all right, And there's lots of lots of things above 0:02:40.400 --> 0:02:42.800 our scale of hearing, above and below our scale of hearing. Um, 0:02:42.919 --> 0:02:44.720 if you talk to sharks, they can they can hear 0:02:44.720 --> 0:02:48.600 different stuff, but my dogs totally different stuff that I 0:02:48.639 --> 0:02:52.079 can hear. Yeah, and and even even before we had 0:02:52.120 --> 0:02:54.679 as much scientific data about that as we do now, 0:02:54.840 --> 0:02:56.320 you know, if we had done the research, we can 0:02:56.400 --> 0:02:58.480 tell you the exact spectrums that we can see within 0:02:58.600 --> 0:03:02.119 but outside of visual which is a pretty good word 0:03:02.120 --> 0:03:04.560 for it. But um, but but yeah, you know it's 0:03:04.600 --> 0:03:07.080 it's even long, long, long times before that people are 0:03:07.120 --> 0:03:10.960 pondering these questions and all kinds of literature. Uh goes 0:03:11.000 --> 0:03:13.680 into literature and philosophy right right all the back in 0:03:14.560 --> 0:03:18.000 one one of the famous famous examples of this kind 0:03:18.000 --> 0:03:22.880 of philosophy was proposed by a fellow named Renee Descartes, 0:03:23.360 --> 0:03:26.000 about whom Monty Python had some rude things to sing. 0:03:27.440 --> 0:03:30.480 If you know that your philosopher's song. But Descartes, um, 0:03:30.520 --> 0:03:35.000 I think therefore I am uh fellow. He wrote something 0:03:35.040 --> 0:03:39.160 called the Meditations on First Philosophy, and he presented an 0:03:39.520 --> 0:03:44.360 very similar thought exercise to the one that Nick Bostrom mentioned. Now, 0:03:44.440 --> 0:03:48.040 his was called the Evil Demon, or sometimes people refer 0:03:48.120 --> 0:03:52.400 to it as the evil genius problem. And he said, well, 0:03:52.400 --> 0:03:56.440 what if everything that I renee, I think therefore I 0:03:56.480 --> 0:04:01.880 am Decartes experience is actually just an illusion that's generated 0:04:01.880 --> 0:04:04.320 by an evil force. In his case, he was from 0:04:04.400 --> 0:04:08.920 an evil demon. So there's this malevolent creature that is 0:04:08.960 --> 0:04:13.600 capable of creating everything that Decard is experiencing. So while 0:04:13.680 --> 0:04:17.320 he thinks he's walking around and being really smart and 0:04:17.400 --> 0:04:22.600 chatting with other smart people and having a croissant um, 0:04:22.680 --> 0:04:27.320 in reality, he's not. He's just he's just a consciousness 0:04:27.360 --> 0:04:30.520 that's being manipulated by this evil demon and everything that's 0:04:30.560 --> 0:04:34.040 happening to him is an illusion that's created by him. 0:04:34.080 --> 0:04:38.039 And this is unfalsifiable, right. It means that that means 0:04:38.040 --> 0:04:40.760 that there's no way that you can prove that it's wrong. 0:04:41.000 --> 0:04:43.160 It's like if I say, there's a six ft invisible 0:04:43.200 --> 0:04:46.760 bunny walking around behind me all the time, makes no 0:04:46.760 --> 0:04:49.520 noise and has no scent, right, and you can't touch it. 0:04:49.680 --> 0:04:53.080 You cannot touch. Yeah, that well, that there's no way 0:04:53.080 --> 0:04:55.800 for me to prove that you're wrong. I will sit 0:04:55.800 --> 0:04:57.400 here and I will think that you are crazy. Or 0:04:57.440 --> 0:05:01.800 Donnie Darko, but that uh, you know, or Deborah Donka 0:05:01.920 --> 0:05:04.960 don't darko, I don't know, I mean, or the character 0:05:05.160 --> 0:05:09.839 in in Harvey there you go, yes, but but you know, 0:05:09.880 --> 0:05:12.120 there's no way for me to prove that there's not 0:05:12.200 --> 0:05:17.240 a six ft invisible, untouchable, unsensible, unhearable bunny behind you. 0:05:17.880 --> 0:05:22.039 So that's that's called that. It's called unfalsifiable. That means 0:05:22.080 --> 0:05:27.240 it is not scientific. Scientific principles premises these sort of things. 0:05:27.320 --> 0:05:31.719 They are falsifiable, meaning that there should be a set 0:05:31.760 --> 0:05:35.240 of criteria under which you would say this is not 0:05:35.400 --> 0:05:38.360 true right now. It does not mean that what you're 0:05:38.360 --> 0:05:40.880 saying isn't true. It just means it has to be possible, 0:05:41.560 --> 0:05:43.080 that has to be within the realm of possible. In 0:05:43.160 --> 0:05:44.640 order for something to be proved, it has to be 0:05:44.640 --> 0:05:48.760 able to be disproved exactly. And so if it's unfalsifiable, 0:05:48.800 --> 0:05:51.840 it's not scientific. Now I should also stress if it's 0:05:51.920 --> 0:05:57.320 unfalsifiable and unscientific, that also does not mean it's not true. 0:05:57.600 --> 0:05:59.719 It could be true. It could absolutely be true. String 0:06:00.279 --> 0:06:02.760 is a great example of this. We call it a theory, 0:06:02.880 --> 0:06:05.599 but but some people argue it's a philosophy, Well, it's 0:06:05.600 --> 0:06:08.240 a it's yeah, it's not a mathematical theory, and I 0:06:08.240 --> 0:06:10.719 get into arguments sometimes of people on Facebook about this 0:06:11.279 --> 0:06:14.000 because the theory is the word that has many many meanings. 0:06:14.120 --> 0:06:17.520 Mathematical meaning of it is is something that has been 0:06:17.600 --> 0:06:22.800 proven is true, whereas has been exercised the whole scientific 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:25.640 theory versus I have a theory, which is really more 0:06:25.680 --> 0:06:27.839 like I have an idea of why this is the 0:06:27.839 --> 0:06:30.039 way it is. Scientific theory and that kind of theory 0:06:30.040 --> 0:06:33.279 are two different things, but anyway, uh yeah, string theory 0:06:33.440 --> 0:06:36.120 would say that the entire universe is made up of 0:06:36.160 --> 0:06:39.520 these tiny, little vibrating strings. And we're talking like tiny, 0:06:39.640 --> 0:06:43.640 as in tinier than sub atomic particles, tiny small, and 0:06:43.680 --> 0:06:46.200 that the way they vibrate, that's what makes stuff what 0:06:46.320 --> 0:06:49.880 it is. Well, mathematically this makes sense, but there is 0:06:50.000 --> 0:06:53.600 no way we can uh we can observe this or 0:06:53.720 --> 0:06:59.320 test this, so therefore it's unfalsifiable and unscientific using that 0:06:59.400 --> 0:07:02.560 particular definition. Uh So, same sort of thing here with 0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:05.359 Renee di Caart and his theory. And this is not again, 0:07:05.440 --> 0:07:07.480 not the first time this idea has popped up, but 0:07:07.480 --> 0:07:09.479 it's one of the really famous ones. And that's back 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:15.880 in So if we look at the modern version, you've 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:19.360 got Nick Bostrom talking about a computer simulation, and his 0:07:19.440 --> 0:07:27.560 whole argument hinges on this idea of transhumanism or the singularity. 0:07:27.720 --> 0:07:30.240 So we kind of have to talk about what the 0:07:30.280 --> 0:07:33.080 singularity is so that we can finally get around to 0:07:33.120 --> 0:07:36.480 this whole computer simulation problem, right, and and and also 0:07:36.720 --> 0:07:40.800 talk about trans human because that that's basically a fancy 0:07:40.920 --> 0:07:45.680 term for stuffy. Yeah, it's it's it's a it's a 0:07:45.680 --> 0:07:49.760 fancy term for saying what happens when we reach a 0:07:49.880 --> 0:07:55.160 point in in advances in science and medicine in biology 0:07:55.320 --> 0:07:58.520 where we can transform ourselves to a point where we 0:07:58.560 --> 0:08:02.080 are no longer strictly speed being human. Right, Like, we 0:08:02.160 --> 0:08:06.440 have altered ourselves on some fundamental level, and we aren't 0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:09.720 we we wouldn't be human as we recognize it today, right, 0:08:09.760 --> 0:08:12.680 that our our technology has bonded to us in a way, 0:08:12.800 --> 0:08:15.360 or that our science has bonded to us a way. Right, 0:08:15.360 --> 0:08:18.080 we we've understood genetics enough so that we're all mutants 0:08:18.160 --> 0:08:21.320 like in the X Men, or we have all become cyborgs, 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:26.040 or we have all transmitted our consciousness into computers and 0:08:26.080 --> 0:08:29.360 there are no physical versions of us anymore. And these 0:08:29.400 --> 0:08:33.400 are all different ways that we could in theory become 0:08:33.440 --> 0:08:37.240 trans human. So it's a very generic term that spreads 0:08:37.240 --> 0:08:42.440 across multiple possibilities. Right, there's no one trans human because really, 0:08:42.480 --> 0:08:43.960 I mean, the thing is that we don't know because 0:08:43.960 --> 0:08:45.640 we're not there yet. It hasn't happened yet, as it 0:08:45.640 --> 0:08:46.920 turns out. I mean, there's a few of us who 0:08:46.920 --> 0:08:50.440 are a little wacky, but but it doesn't mean some 0:08:50.480 --> 0:08:52.600 of us are clearly better than others. I mean, okay, 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:57.280 I mean we're not we're not naming names, but we're 0:08:57.320 --> 0:09:01.480 pretty awesome. But no, that's the area of trans humanism. 0:09:01.480 --> 0:09:04.679 Singularity is sort of one of the pathways where we 0:09:04.720 --> 0:09:07.640 could reach this sort of trans human future. And the 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:12.400 singularity is this idea that several futurists have proposed about 0:09:12.960 --> 0:09:18.040 the fact that technology advances are continuing at a faster 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:22.839 and faster pace each each year, really exponentially exponentially. You've 0:09:22.840 --> 0:09:26.360 got things like Moore's law, where, depending on how you're 0:09:26.400 --> 0:09:29.280 defining it, essentially the computer power is doubling every two 0:09:29.360 --> 0:09:33.040 years um, but other technological advances are are happening at 0:09:33.040 --> 0:09:36.520 an even faster rate that we will eventually come to 0:09:36.600 --> 0:09:40.160 a point where we are advancing continuously with no break 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:43.920 between the generation, right right, if you think of like 0:09:44.000 --> 0:09:46.080 operating systems and how they come out, like you know 0:09:46.200 --> 0:09:50.640 Windows seven and then Windows But then you think, all right, well, 0:09:50.679 --> 0:09:52.920 then down the road it might be the every six months, 0:09:52.960 --> 0:09:54.320 and then it might be every three months, and then 0:09:54.320 --> 0:09:56.959 it might just be that every single day there's something 0:09:57.000 --> 0:09:59.720 new that's being incorporated, or every second or every a second, 0:09:59.840 --> 0:10:03.120 right cetera. So at that point, things are changing so 0:10:03.160 --> 0:10:05.640 fast that you cannot even define the era you are 0:10:05.720 --> 0:10:09.760 in because there's nothing like within within one moment. Uh 0:10:09.920 --> 0:10:13.360 you have changed so much that it's it's pointless to 0:10:13.400 --> 0:10:17.440 try and defind a series of moments. Right at this 0:10:17.480 --> 0:10:20.280 point in our future, we would hit what is called 0:10:20.320 --> 0:10:24.360 the singularity. And part of one of the defining features 0:10:24.360 --> 0:10:26.760 of the singularity is it's impossible for us to say 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:29.920 what will happen once we hit that point, because by 0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:32.240 its very nature, it's going to evolve so fast that 0:10:32.280 --> 0:10:35.840 we cannot conceive of what I mean. It's it's kind 0:10:35.880 --> 0:10:39.040 of pointless to talk about it too much. Doesn't stop me, 0:10:39.840 --> 0:10:43.000 but it's pointless. It doesn't stop philosophers. Either doesn't stop me, 0:10:43.040 --> 0:10:45.800 And there are many pointless discussions that you cannot stop 0:10:45.800 --> 0:10:49.319 me from having This is one of them anyway, So 0:10:50.440 --> 0:10:54.400 the singularity could happen in various ways. Again, biology, science, technology, 0:10:54.440 --> 0:10:58.520 These are all the different avenues that that could lead 0:10:58.520 --> 0:11:03.079 to the singularity or could be you know, yeah and uh. 0:11:03.160 --> 0:11:07.760 And that forms the very crux of Bostrom's argument. Let's 0:11:07.760 --> 0:11:09.800 take a quick break for a word from our sponsor, 0:11:17.240 --> 0:11:21.200 and now back to the show. So Nick Bostrom's argument 0:11:21.840 --> 0:11:25.320 uh is worded this way here. Here's from a paper 0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:30.120 he wrote on the subject, a technologically mature post human 0:11:30.400 --> 0:11:35.960 civilization would have enormous computing power. Based on this empirical fact, 0:11:36.240 --> 0:11:39.280 the simulation argument shows that at least one of the 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:44.440 following propositions is true. One, the fraction of human level 0:11:44.520 --> 0:11:47.439 civilizations that reach a post human stage is very close 0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:51.600 to zero. To the fraction of post human civilizations that 0:11:51.640 --> 0:11:54.880 are interested in running ancestor simulations is very close to 0:11:54.960 --> 0:11:58.959 zero or three. The fraction of all people with our 0:11:59.040 --> 0:12:02.000 kind of experiences they are living in a simulation is 0:12:02.080 --> 0:12:05.120 very close to one. Now, what that essentially means is 0:12:05.160 --> 0:12:08.880 that if we are able to reach a post human phase, 0:12:09.000 --> 0:12:13.120 this trans human phase where we have at our fingertips 0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:18.760 practically limitless resources because of things are being so magical 0:12:18.760 --> 0:12:23.080 and rainbows are popping out of everything. That uh that 0:12:23.240 --> 0:12:28.320 if that's the case, then we should be able to 0:12:28.600 --> 0:12:33.080 create a computer simulation of the universe that is within 0:12:33.160 --> 0:12:37.719 the realm of the simulation itself extremely realistic, and that 0:12:37.760 --> 0:12:42.920 we could also create within this, uh, this universal simulation 0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:48.880 stimulated intelligent beings, so that these these created beings would 0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:52.360 have sentience, they have consciousness, They would they might be 0:12:52.480 --> 0:12:54.840 very much like modern humans. Yes, they be self aware, 0:12:55.480 --> 0:13:00.000 but they would exist within the context of this created universe, 0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:02.640 and so they would only be able to see the 0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:06.000 things that are within that universe. Anything outside of the 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:11.440 universe they would be incapable of perceiving. So within that universe, 0:13:11.960 --> 0:13:17.120 it would seem like they were quote unquote the real people, right. 0:13:17.320 --> 0:13:19.840 They were. They were the people who were there because 0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:23.600 of whatever forces caused the universe to create be created 0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:27.199 in the first place. Um, And that for these people 0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:29.880 within the simulated universe, it might be completely impossible for 0:13:29.920 --> 0:13:33.480 them to detect anyone outside of it, anyone being us 0:13:33.559 --> 0:13:36.240 that we were the ones creating it. So his argument 0:13:36.280 --> 0:13:38.679 is that if we in fact reached the stage, and 0:13:38.760 --> 0:13:42.720 if we would use our technology to create simulations so 0:13:42.800 --> 0:13:45.720 that we could see how civilizations develop and that we 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:47.559 would see how we do that interesting bits of the 0:13:47.600 --> 0:13:51.760 universe work, because we're intrinsically curious, right, So his argument is, 0:13:51.760 --> 0:13:53.880 if it's possible, we would do it, yes, And if 0:13:53.880 --> 0:13:56.880 it's possible and we would do it, that means we, 0:13:57.400 --> 0:14:01.280 the current people living in this universe, almost surely a 0:14:01.280 --> 0:14:07.040 computer simulation. So if it can happen, and if we 0:14:07.200 --> 0:14:13.400 are interested in ourselves, and we obviously are, then it's 0:14:13.600 --> 0:14:15.960 almost a guarantee that we're in a computer simulation. And 0:14:16.000 --> 0:14:18.720 the reason for that argument is that in order for 0:14:18.800 --> 0:14:20.920 us to not be a computer simulation, we would have 0:14:20.960 --> 0:14:24.040 to be the first ones, right, we would have to 0:14:24.080 --> 0:14:29.560 be heading towards that timeline and just haven't gotten there yet, Mr. Fusion, 0:14:30.200 --> 0:14:34.600 whereas in every other case, some other post human civilization 0:14:34.640 --> 0:14:38.640 has already gotten there and made at least one level 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:43.320 of simulated universe, which means that one out of infinity 0:14:43.440 --> 0:14:48.160 means we're the first, and then every other example is 0:14:48.240 --> 0:14:54.600 we're number two or lower. So yeah, that's that's that's 0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:56.200 kind of the crux of his argument, and it's really 0:14:56.240 --> 0:15:00.560 again a philosophical argument it's not meant to say, right, 0:15:00.680 --> 0:15:02.800 we're we're in a we're in a computer game, because 0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:05.400 because somebody that it's set up. Yeah that you know, 0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:11.200 if if you're saying that that ad infinitum percent of 0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:15.240 the time, we're probably a computer simulation. That it's you're 0:15:15.280 --> 0:15:19.520 you're placing the burden of proof on that point nine, 0:15:19.560 --> 0:15:23.960 etceterascent of the population who might think you're wrong and that. So, 0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:27.680 but it's really fair, it's an interesting it's an interesting question. 0:15:29.080 --> 0:15:35.000 It's it's again unfalsifiable at right now. But but here's 0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:38.000 the funny thing. Boston makes this the statement, but it's 0:15:38.000 --> 0:15:40.720 purely from a philosophical point of view, right, It's not 0:15:40.800 --> 0:15:42.840 from a physics point of view, it's not from a 0:15:42.880 --> 0:15:45.920 science point of view. It's philosophy. That has not stopped 0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:49.440 other people from looking at this from a scientific point 0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:53.400 of view. And that, to me is another interesting aspect 0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:56.880 of this argument is that usually you would look at 0:15:56.880 --> 0:15:58.520 an argument like this and say, okay, well that's an 0:15:58.560 --> 0:16:02.600 interesting philosophical question. Ultimately, there's nothing I can do about 0:16:02.640 --> 0:16:04.200 that one way or the other, and then you go 0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:07.040 about your mary a little way, right, But a bunch 0:16:07.160 --> 0:16:11.680 of nice I'm I'm assuming um quantum scientists have gotten together. 0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:13.560 Are you assuming they're nice? Are you assuming their quantum 0:16:13.560 --> 0:16:16.040 signed assuming well, I'm assuming both. I'm going to go 0:16:16.080 --> 0:16:17.600 ahead and give them the benefit of the doubt. There 0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:22.640 have been have been doing some research into quantum chromodynamics, 0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:27.840 which is which is a theory about one of the 0:16:28.000 --> 0:16:31.040 four fundamental forces in our universe. So the four fundamental 0:16:31.080 --> 0:16:37.640 forces are strong nuclear force, electromagnetism, weak nuclear force, and gravity. 0:16:37.960 --> 0:16:40.040 And that is in fact, in the order of how 0:16:40.080 --> 0:16:42.320 powerful they are, right, gravity is the weakest, is the 0:16:42.360 --> 0:16:45.920 one that we're having the most trouble incorporating into our 0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:50.920 model of the universe. Uh. Strong nuclear force deals with 0:16:51.000 --> 0:16:54.320 the force of you know, you know those nucleus is 0:16:54.400 --> 0:16:57.680 things as the nuclei the exists inside atoms. You know 0:16:57.720 --> 0:17:00.440 how they have like stuff that's stuck together, like protons 0:17:00.440 --> 0:17:03.880 and neutrons. And we're not sure why because because hypothetically 0:17:03.960 --> 0:17:07.280 two protons should should push each other each other. If 0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:10.119 you've ever played with magnetics, we well, strong nuclear force 0:17:10.520 --> 0:17:13.240 is the force that that's the name for the reason 0:17:13.440 --> 0:17:19.880 why these things are stuck together so strong whether why 0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:21.879 they're able to stick together, clearly it has to be 0:17:21.920 --> 0:17:25.159 an incredibly strong force, an incredibly strong force that only 0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:29.040 kicks in in incredibly short distances. We're talking on the 0:17:29.080 --> 0:17:34.040 atomic scale. So the strong nuclear force is what quantum 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:38.120 chromo dynamics is all about studying. And one of the 0:17:38.160 --> 0:17:43.399 ways that quantum chromo dynamics or q c D should 0:17:43.440 --> 0:17:47.520 be way easier to say is to to look at 0:17:48.359 --> 0:17:52.880 this as a part of well, it looks at reality 0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:58.560 as four space time dimensions, so four dimensions. We mentioned 0:17:58.600 --> 0:18:01.560 string theory earlier, So versions of strength theory require that 0:18:01.600 --> 0:18:04.400 there are no fewer than eleven dimensions for strength theory 0:18:04.400 --> 0:18:08.320 to work, which is basically beyond my comprehension entirely. I 0:18:08.320 --> 0:18:11.000 I get X, y Z and time that I can 0:18:11.040 --> 0:18:14.240 I can get a three dimensional object moving through time. Yeah, 0:18:14.480 --> 0:18:19.200 that's cool. Beyond that it gets a little wonky. Yeah, yeah, 0:18:19.240 --> 0:18:22.880 wibbly wobbly. I'm right there with you, and uh and yeah, 0:18:23.000 --> 0:18:25.040 the same thing. And then again this this plays back 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:26.760 to that discussion we have at the very beginning where 0:18:26.760 --> 0:18:29.160 we talked about, you know, we know the universe consists 0:18:29.200 --> 0:18:32.720 of stuff that's beyond our perception, but you know, we 0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:35.120 have to filter that through our brains and our brains 0:18:35.200 --> 0:18:39.960 are acting as a middleman between our consciousness and reality. 0:18:40.320 --> 0:18:44.159 So the things that we experience may very well be 0:18:45.160 --> 0:18:48.159 in their fundamental nature extremely different from the way we 0:18:48.200 --> 0:18:51.280 think of them because it's being filtered through because we 0:18:51.320 --> 0:18:56.679 have to model them in a this this concept we 0:18:56.720 --> 0:19:00.800 shouldn't have done. This philosophy makes me sad. I just 0:19:00.840 --> 0:19:03.520 realized that my brain is what's making you sit there 0:19:03.560 --> 0:19:05.200 and you think, like, think about it. If you have 0:19:05.240 --> 0:19:07.320 a bad day, you're thinking, wait a minute. Part of 0:19:07.320 --> 0:19:08.840 the reason I'm having a bad day is because my 0:19:08.880 --> 0:19:12.040 brain is filtering things in a it's my fault, and 0:19:12.080 --> 0:19:15.399 then I just it becomes this cirable loop of of 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:17.440 everything is terrible because of my brain, which is making 0:19:17.480 --> 0:19:21.800 things terrible. A little glimpse into Jonathan Strickland, folks, that's 0:19:21.800 --> 0:19:23.159 how I get just before I have to go to 0:19:23.200 --> 0:19:25.200 c E S. I know this episode publishes after I 0:19:25.280 --> 0:19:31.760 come back, but trust me, it's it's a terrible life. 0:19:31.800 --> 0:19:34.520 Having to fly around the country and look at really 0:19:34.560 --> 0:19:39.680 shiny technological objects. You're not helping this suspicious cycle going on. 0:19:40.280 --> 0:19:42.800 Getting back to qc D. So part of part of 0:19:42.840 --> 0:19:46.359 this is looking at reality as for spacetime dimensions. Uh, 0:19:46.400 --> 0:19:50.440 and it's using computers that are really really powerful to 0:19:50.560 --> 0:19:54.920 do this and creating something that's uh, well, it's it's 0:19:55.000 --> 0:19:58.560 it's it's called a lattice gauge. Uh. It's last gage 0:19:58.600 --> 0:20:03.760 theory actually. Uh. ATM is sort of the framework within 0:20:04.119 --> 0:20:07.320 which q c D tries to explain the strong nuclear force. 0:20:08.040 --> 0:20:11.560 And uh, this part of this means that we try 0:20:11.600 --> 0:20:17.760 and simulate and then incredibly tiny simulated universe, right, right, 0:20:17.800 --> 0:20:20.000 And this is on the this is on actually the 0:20:20.000 --> 0:20:23.360 femto scale by saying that, right is correct, excellent, um, 0:20:23.520 --> 0:20:27.000 And and a femtometer is one quadrillionth of a meter 0:20:27.600 --> 0:20:30.359 nanometer for for references, one billionth of a meter. And 0:20:30.400 --> 0:20:33.280 that's also very small. Yes, yeah, when you talk about 0:20:33.320 --> 0:20:38.000 nanotechnology and that super small technology that is enormous compared 0:20:38.040 --> 0:20:41.960 to the femto scale, we're talking really really really tiny. Well, 0:20:42.080 --> 0:20:46.000 they build this sort of lattice structure to contain the 0:20:46.119 --> 0:20:51.320 simulated universe, and within this simulated universe, they are examining 0:20:51.840 --> 0:20:55.919 the elements that make up the strong nuclear force so 0:20:55.920 --> 0:20:58.720 that we can understand what it is and how it 0:20:58.760 --> 0:21:01.240 works better. Right, that's the whole purpose. One of the 0:21:01.240 --> 0:21:04.320 big driving forces of the universe. We want to understand it. 0:21:04.400 --> 0:21:07.320 But these these physicists said, hey, wait a minute. If 0:21:07.320 --> 0:21:12.080 this is how we are simulating and entirely fake universe, 0:21:12.160 --> 0:21:16.840 a very tiny universe, doesn't it stand to reason that 0:21:17.000 --> 0:21:19.320 some other like if we are and if we became 0:21:19.440 --> 0:21:23.320 hyper advanced, if if we went trans human, couldn't those 0:21:23.320 --> 0:21:27.359 trans humans in fact use the same technology to simulate 0:21:27.680 --> 0:21:31.000 an entire universe on a big scale, on a really 0:21:31.080 --> 0:21:35.400 large scale niver scale, right, or or at least for us. 0:21:35.400 --> 0:21:38.560 I mean, you could also argue that just to populate 0:21:38.600 --> 0:21:43.879 a fimpto sized universe with with even smaller individual units 0:21:43.920 --> 0:21:47.000 within that fimpto sized universe, the idea being that, well 0:21:47.720 --> 0:21:50.760 you could you could create a stimulation that is a 0:21:50.800 --> 0:21:55.600 true universe with inhabitants and intelligent inhabitants, and that if 0:21:55.640 --> 0:21:58.520 in fact we are in a computer simulation, then perhaps 0:21:58.520 --> 0:22:01.800 there's some way that we could text if this lattice 0:22:01.840 --> 0:22:06.879 structure is around our own universe. Um. Yeah, this is 0:22:06.880 --> 0:22:09.320 where it's getting to the point where it's hard for 0:22:09.359 --> 0:22:12.920 me to actually explain because it's stretching both of our 0:22:13.320 --> 0:22:16.880 grasps on quantum mechanics are are perhaps not as strong 0:22:16.920 --> 0:22:19.600 as they could be, and cosmology for the matter. For 0:22:19.640 --> 0:22:22.320 that matter, because we're talking about things like cosmic rays. 0:22:24.280 --> 0:22:28.680 The physicists suggested that perhaps we could um observe cosmic 0:22:28.800 --> 0:22:32.560 rays and and really study them in depth and see 0:22:32.560 --> 0:22:36.320 how they behave within our universe and look for evidence 0:22:36.520 --> 0:22:40.560 of a lattice structure, which would indicate that some other 0:22:41.040 --> 0:22:44.159 larger universe had used the same techniques we used to 0:22:44.240 --> 0:22:46.960 create the fimto universes we're making to look at the 0:22:46.960 --> 0:22:49.840 strong nuclear force to make our own universe, and then 0:22:49.880 --> 0:22:52.320 we'd say, hey, look there's evidence we are in a 0:22:52.359 --> 0:22:57.240 computer simulation crap. There are there are some issues with this. 0:22:57.400 --> 0:23:02.119 One is that, uh, it presumes that any post human 0:23:02.160 --> 0:23:08.520 civilization would use the exact so uh, there's another assumption 0:23:08.680 --> 0:23:13.439 that said post human society would allow us to be 0:23:13.600 --> 0:23:16.119 able to find our own right that you know, they 0:23:16.119 --> 0:23:18.480 wouldn't paint in a nice little backdrop that would prevent 0:23:18.560 --> 0:23:21.280 us from seeing the scenes, like to put in a 0:23:21.359 --> 0:23:25.520 patch or to reset us. Let's go back to bronze age, Pope, 0:23:25.520 --> 0:23:30.400 folks control or delete um. There's also the argument that, well, 0:23:30.520 --> 0:23:34.240 what if our universe is so large that it is 0:23:34.280 --> 0:23:36.720 a bounded universe, because that's the other thing. A lattice 0:23:37.200 --> 0:23:40.080 structure would also indicate that our universe does have finite 0:23:40.320 --> 0:23:44.119 it's a finite universe. What if that finite universe is 0:23:44.119 --> 0:23:46.159 still too big for us to ever be able to 0:23:46.160 --> 0:23:49.720 see the edges, or what if the universe just is 0:23:49.800 --> 0:23:52.399 finite anyway. Yeah, it could be that the universe is 0:23:52.440 --> 0:23:54.960 finite anyway and has nothing to do with the lass structure. 0:23:55.040 --> 0:23:56.879 And so there are a lot of a lot of 0:23:56.960 --> 0:24:00.600 objections that people have brought up. But mainly what this 0:24:00.720 --> 0:24:03.359 approach would allow us to do is if we saw 0:24:03.560 --> 0:24:06.480 the last structure, we could maybe draw some conclusions. But 0:24:06.560 --> 0:24:08.520 in any other case, like if we didn't see the 0:24:08.600 --> 0:24:10.680 last structure, it doesn't answer any questions. All right, it 0:24:10.720 --> 0:24:13.520 doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. Yeah, it doesn't mean 0:24:13.520 --> 0:24:17.440 that we're not in a computer simulation. So this so 0:24:17.520 --> 0:24:20.320 it's interesting, But again it's just sort of an extension 0:24:20.480 --> 0:24:24.280 of this thought experiment where, uh, you know, we're kind 0:24:24.280 --> 0:24:27.000 of getting round to the point that I'm most interested 0:24:27.040 --> 0:24:30.520