1 00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: From Bloomberg News and I Heart Radio. It's the big tape. 2 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:15,520 Speaker 1: I'm West Cassova today mining asteroids for knowledge and one 3 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: day for profit. We copy it down eagle written, uh randquiality, 4 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:33,159 Speaker 1: Babe here the eagle has landed rocket point. Frank quiality. 5 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 1: We got to on the ground. We got a b 6 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:37,400 Speaker 1: the guy about the term blue. It's been more than 7 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:40,880 Speaker 1: half a century since Apollo eleven landed on the Moon 8 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:45,280 Speaker 1: in July, and it's still a thrill to hear those 9 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:49,239 Speaker 1: greeny tapes across time and space. The US and other 10 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:52,560 Speaker 1: nations are now working on well publicized programs to put 11 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:55,680 Speaker 1: people back on the Moon and maybe Mars at some point. 12 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: But there's also a lot of brain power and money 13 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 1: going to a whole different kind of space exploration that 14 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:06,319 Speaker 1: maybe you haven't heard as much about. It involves sending 15 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 1: spacecraft not to planets, but to asteroids and hauling the 16 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 1: precious materials inside them back to Earth. Later in the show, 17 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:17,679 Speaker 1: I talked with Bloomberg reporter Lauren Grush all about the 18 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:21,959 Speaker 1: fast growing business of space. But first, our supervising producer 19 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 1: and self confessed space geek, Vicky Virgolina, digs into the 20 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 1: science with the leader of NASA's Osiris REX mission. This 21 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 1: is Dante Loretta, Regents, Professor of Planetary Science and cosmo 22 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 1: Chemistry at the University of Arizona. I also have the 23 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 1: honor of serving as the principal investigator for NASA's Osirius 24 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:46,479 Speaker 1: REX Asteroids Sample Return mission. Can you tell me about 25 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 1: the Osiris REX mission and what you hope to learn 26 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 1: from the samples you're getting from the Benu asteroid. Osirius 27 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 1: REX is a mission of planetary exploration in NASA's New 28 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 1: Frontiers program. It's so it's been sponsored by the agency 29 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 1: in partnership with the Canadian Space Agency, KNESS, the French 30 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:10,120 Speaker 1: Space Agency, and Jackson, the Japanese Space Agency. The mission 31 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 1: objectives are to launch a spacecraft to near Earth asteroid Benue, 32 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:20,359 Speaker 1: survey it in exquisite detail, use that information to select 33 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 1: a location on the surface to send our spacecraft down, 34 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 1: and collect material for ultimate return to Earth. The good 35 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 1: news is most of that has happened already. We launched 36 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:34,080 Speaker 1: in two thousand sixteen, arrived at our target asteroid in 37 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:37,919 Speaker 1: two thousand eighteen, and successfully collected a sample on October. 38 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 1: The spacecraft departed venue in May of one and is 39 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 1: currently in interplanetary space en route to the Earth, and 40 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:51,080 Speaker 1: those samples will be on the ground on September two, 41 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 1: thousand twenty three. The primary reason we selected asteroid venue 42 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 1: is because it's a carbonaceous asteroid. That means it's rich 43 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 1: in carbon in the form of organic molecules. And Benu 44 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 1: is an ancient geologic remnant from the early Solar System. 45 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 1: So one of the key objectives of the mission is 46 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 1: to understand if asteroids like Benu may have delivered the 47 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:14,679 Speaker 1: building blocks of life to our planet four and a 48 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:18,920 Speaker 1: half billion years ago. Is this the first mission of 49 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:20,959 Speaker 1: its kind? Is this the first time we've been able 50 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:24,399 Speaker 1: to actually get samples and reach a near Earth asteroid. 51 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 1: This is the first time that NASA has flown an 52 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 1: asteroid sample return mission, but our partners in Japan, the 53 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 1: Japanese Aerospace Exploration Agency, have actually flown two asteroid sample 54 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 1: return missions called Hyabusa and Hyabusa two, and they delivered 55 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 1: their samples in December. Part of this mission, from what 56 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 1: I read, is to gain a sense of potentially hazardous 57 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 1: asteroids that may be heading for collision on Earth. Is 58 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 1: that part of the mission as well? It is and 59 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 1: by virtue of picking an asteroid that was close to 60 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 1: the Earth. Benu is a near Earth asteroid and its 61 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:00,080 Speaker 1: orbit is very similar to that of our planet, and 62 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 1: in fact, it crosses the Earth's orbit on September, which 63 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 1: is why that's the date that the samples are coming home. 64 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 1: So we do worry about Benu impacting the Earth. It 65 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 1: is a potentially hazardous asteroid and in fact ranked number 66 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:17,720 Speaker 1: one on the potentially hazardous asteroid list. So another part 67 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 1: of our investigation was to understand its future orbit. And 68 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:23,599 Speaker 1: you might not think that's a big deal because we 69 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 1: understand gravity and Newton's laws really well. But with these 70 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:31,280 Speaker 1: small asteroids, the effect of sunlight has a substantial influence 71 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:35,720 Speaker 1: on their future trajectory in the form of absorbing radiation. 72 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:39,719 Speaker 1: Because Benu is so carbon rich, it's very dark and black. 73 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:43,239 Speaker 1: Think about asphalt and asphalt parking lot. In the summer, 74 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 1: it gets really hot and then that energy is released 75 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:51,720 Speaker 1: back into space as thermal energy or infrared photons, and 76 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 1: those impart a thrust on the asteroid. In the case 77 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 1: of Benu, it slows it down, which means it's orbit shrinks, 78 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 1: making it more are likely to hit the Earth in 79 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 1: the future, and I understand recently there have been missions 80 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 1: where we're actually trying to intercede the trajectory of an 81 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:10,360 Speaker 1: asteroid that feels like it's coming a bit too close 82 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:13,600 Speaker 1: to Earth, and those missions have been largely successful. That's right. 83 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 1: Especially last year NASA launched the DART mission, the Double 84 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 1: Asteroid Redirection Test, where a spacecraft impacted a satellite of 85 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 1: an asteroid. And the reason they chose a moon orbiting 86 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 1: around an asteroid, a natural moon, so they could change 87 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 1: the Moon's orbit without changing the asteroids orbit, because the 88 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 1: last thing you want to do when you're trying to 89 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 1: test a deflection technology is actually send something towards the 90 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 1: Earth accidentally. So by hitting the Moon there was no 91 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:42,360 Speaker 1: chance of any risk to the planet. Yet they could 92 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:46,839 Speaker 1: see the phenomenal response of the asteroids orbit to that impact. 93 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 1: It was an amazing result and the first true demonstration 94 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 1: of an asteroid deflection technology in space. We're not quite 95 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:57,040 Speaker 1: there yet. We don't have the capability to actually deflect 96 00:05:57,040 --> 00:05:59,479 Speaker 1: an asteroid on a trajectory to the Earth. This is 97 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:03,479 Speaker 1: the first up towards developing that technology. What I'm impressed 98 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 1: to see is that NASA and the United States government 99 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 1: takes the risk seriously, as do many other nations around 100 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 1: the world, and are developing technologies to prevent such a 101 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 1: disaster because if an asteroid were to strike, and I 102 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:19,840 Speaker 1: want to remind the listeners that an asteroid did hit 103 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 1: the Earth. On February two thousand thirteen, a relatively small 104 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:28,679 Speaker 1: object exploded over the city of Chelavins in Russia, causing 105 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 1: massive damage, knocking down buildings and injuring thousands of people. 106 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 1: Uh So, even the small asteroids can be a problem. 107 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 1: A big asteroid will really ruin your day. Yeah, just 108 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 1: ask the dinosaurs, right exactly. In fact, we have a 109 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:45,840 Speaker 1: running joke in our business that asteroids are Nature's way 110 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:50,599 Speaker 1: of asking how's your space program coming along? That's pretty good. 111 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 1: So I wanted to ask you about the resource identification 112 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 1: component of this mission. This is part of NASA's mission 113 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:00,480 Speaker 1: to get a sense of what resources are of available 114 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 1: for potential future mining of precious metals. Can you tell 115 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:05,920 Speaker 1: me about that component of the mission? It is in 116 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 1: the OSIRIS acronym. The acronym yeah, so I wrote that 117 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 1: acronym in two thousand four and I thought I'm just 118 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 1: gonna let my sci fi geek flag fly and I'm 119 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 1: gonna put resource identification down there, and someday somebody will 120 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 1: look at our data and think about mining this asteroid. 121 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 1: But the landscape has changed enormously and there's been corporate 122 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 1: interest in developing the economic resources of near Earth space. 123 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 1: I mentioned that Benu was rich in carbon, and that 124 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 1: feeds our origins investigation, which is the first word in 125 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:37,880 Speaker 1: the acronym. But in addition to the carbon, it's very 126 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 1: rich in water, which may sound strange because it's a 127 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:45,119 Speaker 1: relatively small asteroid about five in diameter, and it doesn't 128 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 1: have liquid water on its surface and doesn't have ice. 129 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 1: It's much too close to the Sun for that. The 130 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 1: water is actually locked inside minerals called clay's that formed 131 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:58,840 Speaker 1: early in Solar System history when hydrothermal activity like think 132 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 1: a yellow stone, all faithful kind of geysers were active 133 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 1: in the early Solar system and alter the original rocks 134 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 1: into those clay minerals, and that water turns out to 135 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 1: be the key economic resource. Not to bring it back 136 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 1: to the Earth, but what you can do with water 137 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 1: is you can break it up into hydrogen and oxygen, 138 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 1: and liquid hydrogen. Liquid oxygen is one of the most 139 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:23,680 Speaker 1: powerful rocket fuels that we know of. So the concept 140 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 1: is that you're developing fuel depots in space, and anybody 141 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 1: that's pushing out to the lunar surface to neuroth asteroids 142 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:34,440 Speaker 1: or deep Solar system exploration will be able to refuel 143 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 1: their spacecraft not on the surface of the Earth. So 144 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 1: you save a lot of launch costs if you don't 145 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:40,800 Speaker 1: have to launch your fuel, if you only have to 146 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 1: launch your hardware. I did want to go back for 147 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:48,080 Speaker 1: a second to the actual extraction process. Paint me a 148 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 1: picture of how you actually get it off the surface 149 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:53,960 Speaker 1: of the asteroid or if you're digging deep into the asteroid. Absolutely, 150 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 1: So it's a spacecraft, so it looks a lot like 151 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 1: an Earth orbiting satellite. It's powered by solar array, so 152 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 1: all the electricity is solar. It's got a giant two 153 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 1: meter radio dish, so we could communicate across the Solar system. 154 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 1: And uh, the sampling strategy is what we called touch 155 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 1: and go because we're in a micro gravity environment. So 156 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 1: with that kind of environment, you're not really able to land. 157 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:22,200 Speaker 1: I kind of looked at it more like a scuba 158 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:24,839 Speaker 1: diver around a coral reef or a humming bird. You're 159 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 1: able to buzz around this thing and take a look 160 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 1: at it from all different directions and angles, and ultimately 161 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:33,720 Speaker 1: get up close and personal with it. The spacecraft has 162 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 1: a three meter long robotic arm and at the end 163 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 1: of that arm was a collection head, which was essentially 164 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:43,559 Speaker 1: an air filter, and our strategy was to push that 165 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 1: filter down into the surface of the asteroid into what 166 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:49,559 Speaker 1: we call the regular and regular refers to the loose 167 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 1: blanket of dust and rock on these airless bodies, which 168 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 1: is the stuff we want to bring home, and it's 169 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: kind of like a leafblower. We just blew down this 170 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:00,960 Speaker 1: high purity nitrogen gas. We had re tanks so we 171 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:04,200 Speaker 1: could try three times, and pushed a bunch of rocks 172 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 1: into that filter and it worked amazingly well. We thought 173 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 1: we would be in contact with the surface for five seconds. 174 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:13,840 Speaker 1: It turned out the surface of venue is more like 175 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:16,960 Speaker 1: a fluid and it just flowed away from us, and 176 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 1: we sunk down fifty centimeters right like a foot and 177 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 1: a half deep into the asteroid surface, which meant we 178 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 1: collected an enormous amount of material. In fact, we collected 179 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 1: so much material we jammed open our check valve, which 180 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 1: was designed to keep the sample inside, and as soon 181 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 1: as we got away from the asteroid, we saw that 182 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:39,320 Speaker 1: some particles were escaping. A major freak out moment for 183 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 1: me after our greatest triumph and all of a sudden, 184 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 1: all this hard work is now floating away into space. 185 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 1: And so we went into emergency mode and rapidly got 186 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:51,559 Speaker 1: the sample stowed into a protective return capsule. It kind 187 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 1: of looks like a mini version of the capsule that 188 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 1: brings the astronauts back. Uh, and that is the only 189 00:10:57,480 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 1: part of the spacecraft that will actually make it back 190 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 1: down to the surface of the Earth. I've read the 191 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:07,679 Speaker 1: water component which you spoke of earlier, the water in 192 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:10,680 Speaker 1: certain asteroids being almost like a gas station in space. 193 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:13,439 Speaker 1: Right Like you said, it would allow for hydrogen and 194 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 1: oxygen to be broken down. I mean, I imagine you 195 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 1: could distill it for even drinking, but it just it 196 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:22,440 Speaker 1: really allows you to go much further into space. Do 197 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 1: you see that as the next necessary component to get 198 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:30,960 Speaker 1: further out into space for human missions? Absolutely, for several reasons. 199 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:33,680 Speaker 1: One is, you really don't want to launch your fuel 200 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:35,640 Speaker 1: off the surface of the Earth, because that's the most 201 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 1: expensive part of your mission, is lifting mass from the 202 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:42,559 Speaker 1: surface of the Earth into Earth orbit. Once you're out 203 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:44,439 Speaker 1: into the Solar system, you actually don't need a lot 204 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 1: of energy to move around. It just takes time to 205 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 1: get to these distant locations. Aster Rank is an organization 206 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 1: They rank asteroids in terms of cost efficiency, both how 207 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:58,439 Speaker 1: close to Earth they are, as well as what minerals 208 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 1: and precious metals are in their They had said that 209 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:04,400 Speaker 1: the top ten most cost effective asteroids would produce around 210 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 1: one point five trillion dollars of material. Can you talk 211 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:10,720 Speaker 1: a little bit about what materials are in there? So 212 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:14,800 Speaker 1: most asteroids are not hydrated or rich in water, like 213 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:17,720 Speaker 1: Benu and Yugo, which was the target of the Hyabusa 214 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:20,680 Speaker 1: two mission from Jackson. Most of them are metals and 215 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:28,599 Speaker 1: stony materials. The metals are dominated by your base metals iron, nickel, cobalt, chrome, chromium. 216 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 1: So you could make steel a lot of steel in space. 217 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 1: The basic components for steelmaking are out there, and that 218 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:37,520 Speaker 1: gets you all kinds of structure and capabilities. And then 219 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 1: you're right. The platinum group elements platinum, rhenium, a ridium, osmium, 220 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:45,200 Speaker 1: very rare and precious on the surface of the Earth, 221 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 1: are present in high abundances. What are you hoping to 222 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:51,840 Speaker 1: find from the samples when they return blues to the 223 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 1: original life full stop. Yeah, well, thank you so much. 224 00:12:56,520 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 1: I really appreciate your time, doctor, pleasure when we come 225 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 1: back a company with its eye on mining asteroids for 226 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 1: lucrative metals. Okay, we've heard about the promise that NASA 227 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 1: and scientists see in asterroidmissions. Now comes the inevitable question, 228 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 1: is there money to be made from mining asteroids? The 229 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: answer is yes. But to explain, Vicky rang up Matt Garlic. 230 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 1: He's the co founder and CEO of astro Forge. That's 231 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 1: a company that aims to mine asteroids for materials like 232 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:42,839 Speaker 1: platinum and ridium and palladium, the so called platinum group 233 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 1: metals we're gonna need more and more of for electric 234 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 1: cars and other technologies. That of course will be no 235 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 1: easy task, And Vicky asked him what made him want 236 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:55,040 Speaker 1: to take it on. We co founded astro Ford with 237 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 1: you know, definitely the intent to mind an asteroid, but 238 00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:00,800 Speaker 1: really we wanted to make critical resources on Earth available 239 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:02,720 Speaker 1: and one of the only ways that we believe to 240 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 1: do that is to go off world and mine asteroids. 241 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:08,320 Speaker 1: And you you were working with Virgin Orbit in the 242 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 1: past and also bird does this sort of lend into 243 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 1: what you're doing now. Yeah, I spent a number of 244 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 1: years at Virgin Orbit. UM my co founder Rose spent 245 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:17,920 Speaker 1: a number of years at SpaceX, and you know, together 246 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 1: we were in kind of the infancy of the satellite 247 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:23,760 Speaker 1: small sat revolution that we saw happening, and I think 248 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 1: what we what we saw there was access to space 249 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:30,000 Speaker 1: dramatically decrease in price, and we saw quite a few 250 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:33,120 Speaker 1: companies take advantage of this, things like you know Starlink, 251 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:35,200 Speaker 1: one Web, a lot of these constellations going up, but 252 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 1: we didn't see anybody really pushing the envelope and thinking 253 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 1: outside of the bounds of Earth, and um, that's what 254 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 1: we started to think about, what could you do if 255 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 1: you could go outside of the bounds of Earth with 256 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 1: this low cost access to space. That was a big 257 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 1: idea of like how much you know SpaceX and there's 258 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 1: reusable rockets have transformed the ability to sort of reach 259 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 1: further and do it less expensively. Absolutely, We've also seen 260 00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 1: something else happened very recently, which is awesome. We've seen 261 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:02,400 Speaker 1: a lot of privatization or commercial companies going to the 262 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 1: moon and companies that are going to the moon allows 263 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:08,160 Speaker 1: us to have access to launch vehicles that are going 264 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 1: to lunar orbit, which gives us a lot more energy 265 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 1: to get out into deep space. Um as we announced, 266 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:15,680 Speaker 1: you know, our second mission is taking advantage of this 267 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 1: with Intuitive Machines. They're a company that is going to 268 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 1: do a lunar lander. We're hitching a ride on their 269 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:22,280 Speaker 1: launch vehicle, take it out into lunar orbit, and then 270 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 1: using that as kind of a leap pad to go 271 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 1: out into deep space. Our first mission is sending up 272 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 1: our refinery, so this is a prototype of how we 273 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 1: expect to refine an asteroid in space. We're going to 274 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:34,920 Speaker 1: send it up and show that we can do the 275 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 1: refining in lower orbit, right in the confines of a 276 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 1: vacuum with no gravity. Can we refine what we believe 277 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 1: to be the surface of the asteroid. That mission is 278 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 1: launching in April three, so we're about three months away 279 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 1: from launch. That will be on Transporter seventh, and then 280 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 1: in October we are on the Intuitive Machines launched two. 281 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 1: That is a Falcon nine going to lunar orbit, and 282 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 1: that will be the mission where we go out to 283 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 1: our asteroid. We're going to take high resolution images of 284 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 1: the surface of our a AT asteroid confirm it's what 285 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 1: we expected to be in preparation for the follow up 286 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 1: missions that we have plant Wow. And so this first 287 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:11,080 Speaker 1: one is going to be basically to to make sure 288 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 1: that the refinery process works and that you can actually 289 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 1: do that in is the is the challenge zero gravity 290 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 1: in the scenario, I think the challenges that nobody's ever 291 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 1: done refining in space before, full stop. Yeah, and so 292 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:24,480 Speaker 1: you know, you know, full stop we want to do 293 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 1: a world's first here. And what we plan on doing 294 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:29,160 Speaker 1: is sending up what we believe to be an asteroid. 295 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 1: So it's a piece of iron with some other elements 296 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:34,840 Speaker 1: associated with it. Essentially imagine a little rock. We're sending 297 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:36,680 Speaker 1: that up and it's going to be processed through our 298 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:38,920 Speaker 1: system and on the other end, we expect to see 299 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 1: platinum on the other side. And that's what we want 300 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 1: to prove in the confines of space. And speaking of that, 301 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 1: planetary resources, I'm sure you know the name well and 302 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 1: Deep Space Industries. There are two former companies with similar aspirations, right, 303 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 1: They wanted to mind asteroids, but they didn't survive, both 304 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 1: through technical constraints and um obviously the massive cost of 305 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:02,480 Speaker 1: this under taking. But what makes what you're doing a 306 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 1: little different in both how you're going to go about 307 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:07,240 Speaker 1: the problem and what you learned from their failures. Yeah, 308 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 1: I mean both those companies were great companies, and obviously 309 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:12,160 Speaker 1: they started about, you know, twelve to fifteen years ago 310 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 1: now before us. First off, those companies gave us a 311 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:16,480 Speaker 1: lot of insight on how what to do and what 312 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 1: not to do, and multiple members of those teams are 313 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 1: advisors to us or work with us full time um 314 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:23,440 Speaker 1: and it's been great to being able to tap into 315 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:25,719 Speaker 1: kind of that resource basis. We stand on the shoulder 316 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:27,800 Speaker 1: of these companies before us to kind of go to 317 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:30,880 Speaker 1: the next place. But on top of that, their timing 318 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:33,680 Speaker 1: was very different than ours. You know, as I mentioned, 319 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:37,280 Speaker 1: we can buy a rideshare slot to the Moon that 320 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:40,360 Speaker 1: was not available a year ago, let alone ten years ago. Right, 321 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 1: the cost and access to space was just not there 322 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:45,920 Speaker 1: for them, And I think that was the critical critical 323 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 1: problem with both of those companies to that in can 324 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 1: you pay me a picture of how the launch, the 325 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 1: actual mining itself, and the whole process would work as 326 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 1: much as you're willing to share, I'll say absolutely absolutely. 327 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 1: So we leave Earth aboard a stand entered rocket, and 328 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:02,679 Speaker 1: I don't even have to put a company name on it. 329 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:05,240 Speaker 1: It can be a SpaceX rocket, Blue Origin rocket, it 330 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:08,240 Speaker 1: really doesn't matter to us. We'll buy a rideshare slot 331 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 1: on one of these rockets going out to orbit around 332 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:12,920 Speaker 1: the Moon. We will leave from the Moon and we 333 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:15,520 Speaker 1: will travel out to our asteroid. We land on the 334 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:18,400 Speaker 1: asteroid and we spend about three months on the asteroid 335 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:21,400 Speaker 1: refining the regulars into the platinum group metals, and then 336 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:24,159 Speaker 1: we store that on board the spacecraft we bring it 337 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,160 Speaker 1: back to Earth. The journey back to Earth will take 338 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 1: us about a year. We'll use the atmosphere to slow 339 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:31,359 Speaker 1: us down. We'll land and we'll recover the resources and 340 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:34,879 Speaker 1: sell them to a final refining. When I was speaking 341 00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:38,160 Speaker 1: with the Ocyrus Rex mission, they talked about the rigth 342 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:40,520 Speaker 1: that they sort of kick it up, and the idea 343 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:43,399 Speaker 1: is to get this this stuff into their net or 344 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:45,280 Speaker 1: into the sort of like a sieve, so that they 345 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 1: can grab the pieces they want to grab. Obviously, you 346 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:51,960 Speaker 1: have some proprietary technology, but is that the similar sort 347 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:53,520 Speaker 1: of process. Are you looking to do this in a 348 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:55,520 Speaker 1: whole new way. We're looking to do this on a 349 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:57,240 Speaker 1: whole new way. Now, keep in mind, we're going to 350 00:18:57,280 --> 00:18:59,920 Speaker 1: a very different type of asteroid than o Cyberus Rex 351 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:02,920 Speaker 1: went to Cybersrex to it went to an asteroid called Benu. 352 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 1: It was broken up, it was determined to be this 353 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 1: rebel pile. I think it was a really cool kind 354 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:09,720 Speaker 1: of shock for the science community when we all saw it, 355 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:12,639 Speaker 1: and something that everybody really leaned into, um and was 356 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:15,640 Speaker 1: awesome to see for the scientific world, that was great. 357 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:18,399 Speaker 1: That's not what we're targeting, right. We are going after 358 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:21,399 Speaker 1: what we call M type asteroids believe to be the 359 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 1: former core planet that was to s Integrat is one 360 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 1: of the theories here. Um, that's what we're going after. 361 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 1: So a very different type of asteroid, Uh than what 362 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:33,119 Speaker 1: old cybers Rex went after. What's your gold standard? What 363 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 1: are you hoping to find on these asteroids that would 364 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 1: be most beneficial back here on Earth? Yeah, it really 365 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:40,400 Speaker 1: is those platinum group metals, those six elements that are 366 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 1: critical in everyday use cases we have. I mean, platinum 367 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:45,720 Speaker 1: is used in things like chemotherapy drugs. These are used 368 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 1: in the catalytic converter on your car, all the way 369 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:51,719 Speaker 1: down to critical components in chip manufacturing, right, and One 370 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:53,359 Speaker 1: of the reasons that we had the chip shortage was 371 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:55,560 Speaker 1: due to the lack of platinum. So going after these 372 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:57,680 Speaker 1: is kind of critical to what we need to survive 373 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:00,680 Speaker 1: and maintain our standard of living. That's what we're focused on. 374 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:04,200 Speaker 1: What do you see as some environmental impact of this, Yeah, 375 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:06,120 Speaker 1: I mean the big picture is this is a critical 376 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:08,480 Speaker 1: problem facing the world that I don't think we're paying 377 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 1: enough attention to at all. Mining as a whole is 378 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:14,000 Speaker 1: responsible for anywhere between eight and ten percent of the 379 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:16,280 Speaker 1: world CEO two emissions, and that's just talking about c 380 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:19,920 Speaker 1: O two, not the massive amount of big holes we dig, 381 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:22,440 Speaker 1: or land waste we do, or water waste we leave, 382 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:24,719 Speaker 1: or tailings that are left behind like these are very 383 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 1: damaging processes. And on top of that, we are running 384 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 1: out of ore, specifically when we talk about the platinum 385 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:32,879 Speaker 1: group metals, we are running out of those ore sources. 386 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:34,920 Speaker 1: And there's no way to make this right. You can't 387 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:37,680 Speaker 1: make this at any quantities or at any industrial scale 388 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 1: in a lab. So the way we need to solve 389 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:41,159 Speaker 1: this is to go where we know a ton of 390 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 1: this metal exists, and that is in the asteroids that 391 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:46,720 Speaker 1: are floating around us in space. This is also going 392 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:51,159 Speaker 1: to be a very very lucrative experiment, right I'm curious, 393 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:54,679 Speaker 1: I guess about the economic impacts of this if you 394 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 1: were to bring back a ton of precious metals. There's 395 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:00,960 Speaker 1: countries in Africa that that's the main export. South Africa, 396 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:04,400 Speaker 1: for instance, is the largest producer of platinum. It accounts 397 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:06,960 Speaker 1: for about seventy two of the world supply right now. 398 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:11,639 Speaker 1: It employs over four people each year. So what happens 399 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:14,439 Speaker 1: when that is displaced. I think that any time you 400 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:16,720 Speaker 1: disrupt an industry, and any time you're going to try 401 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:19,040 Speaker 1: to solve an industry for the betterment of the planet, 402 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:21,560 Speaker 1: there will be some people that are affected by that solving. 403 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:23,159 Speaker 1: No matter what you look at. I mean, we can 404 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:25,440 Speaker 1: look at the shift we've seen in ice engines to 405 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 1: electric cars. There's been some major hiccups in those kind 406 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:31,439 Speaker 1: of classical car businesses that have had change in pivot, 407 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 1: and there's been jobs that have lost, some people that 408 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:35,359 Speaker 1: have been displaced. It's a problem that we have to 409 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 1: solve and I would hate for it to displace anybody. 410 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 1: And we'll see what happens in the long term. But 411 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:41,720 Speaker 1: I firmly believe that we are going to have to 412 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:43,879 Speaker 1: solve this one way or the other, and there's not 413 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 1: there's not an option. We don't have optionality with this. 414 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:48,280 Speaker 1: The question I keep turning around in my head is 415 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:51,240 Speaker 1: the very nature of precious metal is the idea that 416 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:54,920 Speaker 1: it's precious, Right, So when you bring it back and 417 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:57,960 Speaker 1: say we're flooded with platinum and other plantum group metals, 418 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:01,920 Speaker 1: is the value somewhat diminished or lost? Our vehicle is 419 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:04,919 Speaker 1: not bringing back, you know, a million tons permission, we 420 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:06,880 Speaker 1: bring back a very small amount of platinum that can 421 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 1: be sold in the market without really any disrupt in 422 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 1: multiple times, and we're trying to figure out how we 423 00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:13,480 Speaker 1: scale up our small missions in order to do that. 424 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:15,359 Speaker 1: Now that being said, if we do get to the 425 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:17,639 Speaker 1: point where we're able to cost effectively bring back a 426 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:20,119 Speaker 1: lot of platinum, one or two things are going to happen. 427 00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 1: We're either going to see a decrease in the price 428 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 1: of platinum, or we're going to see a merit of 429 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 1: other uses for platinum group metals, similar to like how 430 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:29,880 Speaker 1: aluminium happened at the turn of the century. Right, aluminium 431 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:32,399 Speaker 1: is a very rare precious metal, and now you wrap 432 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 1: your half in sandwich and didn't put in the fridge. 433 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:37,000 Speaker 1: It's a very different construct on how we think about it. 434 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 1: And you know, I hope that we are so successful 435 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:41,879 Speaker 1: at one point that you wrap your sandwich in a 436 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:44,280 Speaker 1: in a sheet of platinum foil like that would be 437 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:48,120 Speaker 1: an awesome goal to achieve when you're talking about trillions 438 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:52,160 Speaker 1: of dollars coming back to Earth. I mean, Neil Degrass 439 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:56,240 Speaker 1: Tyson has said early and often, along with other astro physicists, 440 00:22:56,240 --> 00:23:00,680 Speaker 1: that the first trillionaires will be those who mine asteroids 441 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 1: the resources of the solar system. It's exciting, but it's 442 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:09,040 Speaker 1: also something to be mindful of. Yeah, game planning this out, 443 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:11,360 Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, absolutely, it can be a very lucrative 444 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:13,320 Speaker 1: industry if you can figure it out at a business 445 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:16,200 Speaker 1: case that closes. We believe we have. But I want 446 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:17,879 Speaker 1: to be clear here, like we're not in this alone. 447 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:20,399 Speaker 1: This is not for me to become a trillionaire. I 448 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 1: don't see how that would ever happened. We've had a 449 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 1: lot of venture capitalists that have believed in this mission 450 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 1: and believed in what we've had to do, and we 451 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 1: hope to show them great returns with it, right, And 452 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:31,720 Speaker 1: that's kind of how we've situated this company. But first 453 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:33,600 Speaker 1: and foremost, we have a lot to prove, and these 454 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:35,280 Speaker 1: first two missions that were set out to do are 455 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:39,320 Speaker 1: really laying the groundwork for us to prove that. What 456 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:42,120 Speaker 1: do you see as the realistic timeline when I might 457 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:45,760 Speaker 1: have a PGM in my catalytic converter or you know, 458 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 1: in my phone that comes from a near Earth asteroid, 459 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:51,479 Speaker 1: I mean, my honest timeline here is that we are 460 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 1: hopeful to launch our first refining mission, uh and have 461 00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:57,360 Speaker 1: it returned to Earth before the end of this decade. 462 00:23:57,640 --> 00:23:59,360 Speaker 1: And that is what we are planning on doing now. 463 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 1: Matt College, thanks so much for your time today. Awesome, Well, 464 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:04,680 Speaker 1: thank you very much. Vicky, really appreciate you having me 465 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 1: on the show. We'll talk about where all this is 466 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:21,359 Speaker 1: headed after the break. As we've been hearing today, there 467 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:25,200 Speaker 1: are ambitious plans in space, both for science and commerce. 468 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:30,120 Speaker 1: For a bigger picture, Let's bring in Bloomberg reporter Lauren Grush, 469 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:35,159 Speaker 1: who covers this booming industry. Lauren gotta say this is 470 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:39,120 Speaker 1: a really good time to be a space reporter. There's 471 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:40,800 Speaker 1: just so much going on. We're gonna go back to 472 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:42,440 Speaker 1: the Moon, maybe we're gonna go to Mars, We're gonna 473 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:45,520 Speaker 1: mind some masteroids. What has you most excited right now 474 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:48,239 Speaker 1: about all of this stuff that's going on. Well, I 475 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:51,480 Speaker 1: think for the last few decades the focus has been 476 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:55,840 Speaker 1: primarily been on, you know, launching satellites, communication satellites into 477 00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:59,360 Speaker 1: lower orbit or g s secret dis orbit. But yes, 478 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:03,160 Speaker 1: there's so much promise on the horizon, and there's all 479 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:07,200 Speaker 1: these big, bold ideas and people are starting to put 480 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:09,960 Speaker 1: money behind them and really try and prove them out. 481 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:14,800 Speaker 1: And also NASA is showing that it wants to cultivate 482 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:19,720 Speaker 1: these ideas as well by giving out development contracts for bigger, bolder, 483 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,880 Speaker 1: more interesting things in space, such as going to the Moon. 484 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:25,280 Speaker 1: Let me just ask you about the moon, because we've 485 00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:27,800 Speaker 1: been there, why do we want to go back, other 486 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:30,920 Speaker 1: than that kind of prestige a country gets from landing 487 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:34,359 Speaker 1: people on the moon. Well, I think prestige is a 488 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:37,479 Speaker 1: big part of it. Also, NASA is making a big 489 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:40,680 Speaker 1: case that we need to go as some kind of 490 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:45,159 Speaker 1: race with China. For instance, the NASA administrator made a 491 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,800 Speaker 1: case that perhaps China could get there and claim territory 492 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:51,280 Speaker 1: or you know, try and claim resources up there. I 493 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:54,199 Speaker 1: don't think we're anywhere near that level yet. But you know, 494 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:56,520 Speaker 1: prestige and seeing what we can do as part of it. 495 00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:59,560 Speaker 1: They're the cases also being made that we don't want 496 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:01,399 Speaker 1: to go there or like we did during Apollo, we 497 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:03,960 Speaker 1: want to go there sustainably, so to see if we 498 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,919 Speaker 1: can live off the land and and have a somewhat 499 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:09,760 Speaker 1: permanent presence on the Moon so that we can practice 500 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:13,000 Speaker 1: for going to Mars someday. And then you know, in tandem, 501 00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:17,280 Speaker 1: NASA also wants to cultivate this lunar economy by having 502 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:22,520 Speaker 1: private companies developed capabilities to get payloads and cargo and 503 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 1: people to the Moon as well. So DASA doesn't want 504 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:27,960 Speaker 1: to go alone, it wants to bring a whole host 505 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:30,800 Speaker 1: of companies with it. So one of the other big 506 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 1: things that's happening now is something we're talking about today, 507 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 1: this idea of getting resources off of asteroids. I think 508 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:40,200 Speaker 1: he's spoken to people at O Cyrus and Astro Forager, 509 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 1: as we heard you also spoke to the CEO of Astrofage. 510 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:46,879 Speaker 1: How does that strike you as somebody who reports on this, 511 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:50,160 Speaker 1: How plausible is this that this becomes like a real thing. 512 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 1: I approach it with some level of skepticism because there 513 00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:56,040 Speaker 1: was kind of this I what I call it asteroid 514 00:26:56,440 --> 00:27:00,320 Speaker 1: mining boom. I guess about a decade ago to notable 515 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:04,480 Speaker 1: companies Planetary Resources and Deep Space Industries both made these 516 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:06,400 Speaker 1: big claims that they were going to go and mind 517 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:09,600 Speaker 1: asteroids and make this thriving industry out of it, but 518 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:13,280 Speaker 1: ultimately that kind of went busts as they both got acquired. 519 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:17,359 Speaker 1: So it is an interesting time for this company to 520 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:21,199 Speaker 1: be focused on asteroid mining since most are focused on 521 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:24,320 Speaker 1: going back to the Moon with the Artemis program. So 522 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 1: we'll see how it goes. They do have a lot 523 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 1: of promise. I think. One of the things that stuck 524 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:33,080 Speaker 1: out to me from talking with the Astraford CEO is 525 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:37,840 Speaker 1: that they are focused primarily on creating their own refining technology. 526 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 1: So they say that since they can focus primarily on 527 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,840 Speaker 1: doing in space refining, that's what will make them successful. 528 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:47,160 Speaker 1: So I'll be very interested to see if that plays 529 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,879 Speaker 1: out the way they say they will. One really interesting 530 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 1: thing that came out of the conversation Viggie Head was 531 00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:58,199 Speaker 1: this idea that you can just hit her out in 532 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:00,520 Speaker 1: the racket now, whereas you couldn't do the pretty like 533 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:04,159 Speaker 1: rent space on a rocket, which seems to be a 534 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 1: really big development, not just for asteroid mining, but for 535 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:12,160 Speaker 1: anyone who has designs on doing anything in space. How 536 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,119 Speaker 1: big a deal is it that space X, Blue Origin 537 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:19,920 Speaker 1: other companies like that are making trips outside the Earth 538 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:26,280 Speaker 1: so accessible. Well, there's a whole market for small satellite launches. 539 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:30,200 Speaker 1: So I think the main point is there's options, right 540 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 1: There are these smaller companies that are focused on small 541 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,960 Speaker 1: rocket launches that can be kind of like a dedicated 542 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:40,760 Speaker 1: tailored launch, or you can buy space, like you said, 543 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,720 Speaker 1: on a SpaceX rocket where they cram on a bunch 544 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 1: of all of these small satellites and what are known 545 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,680 Speaker 1: as rocket rideshares, so they can pick and choose which 546 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 1: is the best for them, and it doesn't necessarily break 547 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:53,840 Speaker 1: the bank because they're not having to buy an entire 548 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:56,640 Speaker 1: rocket launch. They can just buy space on it. So 549 00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,160 Speaker 1: how much does it cost if you want to participate 550 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 1: in a rocket ride share? Love that term? Uh, And 551 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:04,560 Speaker 1: you want to put something on a rocket? What do 552 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:06,960 Speaker 1: you have to pay? We're certainly not at the point 553 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,760 Speaker 1: where you and I can just throw whatever we want 554 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,640 Speaker 1: onto a rocket, but it still costs millions of dollars 555 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:15,840 Speaker 1: to get you know, a satellite into space. But you know, 556 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:19,000 Speaker 1: it's on the order of a few million versus you know, 557 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:22,000 Speaker 1: tens of billions of dollars. Another thing that seems to 558 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:26,080 Speaker 1: be a really big development is a reusable rocket that 559 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:28,840 Speaker 1: it doesn't just go up get destroyed in some little 560 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 1: bit of it parachutes back down, but it goes up 561 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:34,520 Speaker 1: and it lands where it took off. Is that really 562 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:38,280 Speaker 1: critical for this idea of being able to do more 563 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:43,440 Speaker 1: serious commercial ventures in space. Well, whenever we deal with 564 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:47,640 Speaker 1: going to space, the biggest cost prohibitor is getting there, 565 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:52,160 Speaker 1: and for decades and decades it has been an extremely 566 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 1: expensive endeavor just to break free of Earth's gravity and 567 00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:59,840 Speaker 1: get into orbit. With reusable rockets, it's there in for 568 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,520 Speaker 1: suit of just lowering the costs of getting into orbit 569 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:05,280 Speaker 1: as much as possible. So when those costs comes down, 570 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:08,480 Speaker 1: it makes it more accessible for other companies, like these 571 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:12,040 Speaker 1: small satellite operators, these startups, to get into orbit for 572 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:15,480 Speaker 1: a cheaper cost. But for now it still is millions 573 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:20,200 Speaker 1: of dollars to get satellites into orbit, and that still 574 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:22,680 Speaker 1: will be I think a barrier until we can get 575 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:25,160 Speaker 1: it down even lower than that. You said that one 576 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:27,880 Speaker 1: of the most expensive things about going to space is 577 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:30,960 Speaker 1: just getting up there. And that's something that also came 578 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:35,760 Speaker 1: up in Vicki's conversations, where in mining asteroids, there's this 579 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:38,240 Speaker 1: idea that if you didn't have to carry all your 580 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:41,719 Speaker 1: fuel with you, all that weight, but you could somehow 581 00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:45,480 Speaker 1: refuel on top of an asteroid using the resources available there, 582 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:49,040 Speaker 1: that would be a great leap forward in space development. 583 00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:52,080 Speaker 1: It seems like science fiction, but these are serious people 584 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:54,680 Speaker 1: talking about this in a serious way. How far off 585 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,680 Speaker 1: do you think something like that actually is. Well, that's 586 00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,680 Speaker 1: also one of the reasons why NASA others are so 587 00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:03,320 Speaker 1: interested in going to the Moon as well. So one 588 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:05,160 Speaker 1: of the things they cite is the fact that we 589 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,080 Speaker 1: know that there's water ice on the Moon, and the 590 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,360 Speaker 1: thing is, we don't know how much water ice is 591 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:13,480 Speaker 1: on the Moon. But ultimately the idea is water has 592 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:17,200 Speaker 1: the components for rocket fuel, so hydrogen and oxygen, and 593 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 1: if you were able to break it apart, you could 594 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:23,760 Speaker 1: use those components and rework them so that you can 595 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:26,200 Speaker 1: refuel your rocket, and that way you don't have to 596 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:29,600 Speaker 1: actually bring all of your propellant with you, which has 597 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:32,040 Speaker 1: been one of the biggest problems when it comes to 598 00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:34,280 Speaker 1: going into deep spaces because you have to carry so 599 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:36,280 Speaker 1: much on your back just so you can make it 600 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:40,360 Speaker 1: back home. But we are still quite a ways off 601 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:44,240 Speaker 1: from actually knowing if that is even possible. So we're 602 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:48,040 Speaker 1: sending the first robotic spacecraft to the Moon hopefully this year. 603 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:51,320 Speaker 1: We have a Japanese company called ice Space that is 604 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:53,000 Speaker 1: on its way to the Moon right now. We have 605 00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:57,080 Speaker 1: to us companies astrobotic and intuitive machines that are working 606 00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,160 Speaker 1: on getting to the Moon just to see if they 607 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:02,200 Speaker 1: can land on it intact. But then we're also hoping 608 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:05,400 Speaker 1: to send a prospecting mission to kind of see what 609 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:08,240 Speaker 1: the water ice is like on the Moon. That's called 610 00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:12,640 Speaker 1: Viper in the next few years. Lauren, we're talking about 611 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:14,360 Speaker 1: all these amazing things that if we had said we're 612 00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 1: going to do this stuff, you know, ten years ago, 613 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 1: it wouldn't have even seemed plausible. When you look ten 614 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:22,840 Speaker 1: years ahead, maybe even just five years ahead. What are 615 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,920 Speaker 1: the things that really sort of get your attention as 616 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:30,240 Speaker 1: especially exciting or innovative that are going to be coming 617 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:33,080 Speaker 1: our way. I think some of the things I'm most 618 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:37,120 Speaker 1: excited about our spacecraft that stay in space and do 619 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:40,280 Speaker 1: details there. So, as we mentioned, getting off of Earth 620 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,760 Speaker 1: is so difficult, and so this idea of creating an 621 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:47,840 Speaker 1: in space infrastructure is really exciting. So for instance, having 622 00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:51,200 Speaker 1: so called space tugs, where you have spacecraft that remain 623 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:54,800 Speaker 1: in orbit and push your spacecraft to higher orbits or 624 00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:57,040 Speaker 1: take them to different areas that they need to go. 625 00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:02,320 Speaker 1: Um in space manufacturing, so rather than building everything on 626 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,000 Speaker 1: the planet like we did with the James Webb Space 627 00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:07,440 Speaker 1: Telescope and we had to launch it folded up because 628 00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:10,840 Speaker 1: it was so massive and complex, instead we build it 629 00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,680 Speaker 1: with materials that we send to space. That way you 630 00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:16,280 Speaker 1: don't have to actually do this kind of crazy origami 631 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:19,800 Speaker 1: when you launch it. And then also when it comes 632 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:22,560 Speaker 1: to living and working on the Moon, you know, I 633 00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:27,640 Speaker 1: I've been very optimistic about the longevity of the Artemis 634 00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:31,400 Speaker 1: program now returned to the Moon because it survived multiple 635 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:35,600 Speaker 1: administrations at this point, which is I think quite incredible. 636 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:38,360 Speaker 1: I mean, space takes a while to develop, and so 637 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:41,880 Speaker 1: we need consistency if we're actually going to do these 638 00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:44,920 Speaker 1: long term programs. But there's a lot on the horizon 639 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,720 Speaker 1: to be excited about, and so I'll be definitely watching 640 00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:51,640 Speaker 1: with interest to see what succeeds. Thanks for coming on 641 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:56,080 Speaker 1: the show. Thanks for having me. You can read more 642 00:33:56,120 --> 00:34:00,800 Speaker 1: from Lauren Grush at Bloomberg dot com. Thanks for listening 643 00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:02,600 Speaker 1: to us here at The Big Take. It's a daily 644 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:06,560 Speaker 1: podcast from Bloomberg and I Heart Radio. For more shows 645 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:09,280 Speaker 1: from my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, 646 00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:13,120 Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen. And we'd love to 647 00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:16,439 Speaker 1: hear from you. Email us questions or comments to Big 648 00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:21,440 Speaker 1: Take at Bloomberg dot net. The supervising producer of The 649 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:25,560 Speaker 1: Big Take and the producer of this episode is Vicky Bergolina. 650 00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:29,880 Speaker 1: Our senior producer is Katherine Fink. Phil the Garcia is 651 00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:35,120 Speaker 1: our engineer, and our original music was Leo Sidrin. I'm Westkasova. 652 00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:37,799 Speaker 1: We'll be back tomorrow with another Big Take.