Speaker 1: Were you aware at any time that Jake and your
Speaker 1: dad and your mom weren't planning to kill the Rose?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 3: Was that ever discussed with you?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 4: He said straight up, we don't get along. He said
Speaker 4: there were times he wanted to leave, and I wondered
Speaker 4: if that was really true, and maybe he did want.
Speaker 3: To leave, but he didn't do it.
Speaker 2: Describe your relationship name I looked hand as a baby sister.
Speaker 5: I personally was surprised that the sent specifically said were
Speaker 5: you there? Did you do anything you know about it?
Speaker 5: Any time? When did you find out that they were
Speaker 5: guilty or that they had actually participated?
Speaker 2: I never would have believed my family would be capable
Speaker 2: of doing something of this magnitude.
Speaker 6: This is the Pike Did Massacre Returned to Pike County
Speaker 6: Season four, episode twenty one, George Wagner takes the stand.
Speaker 6: I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at Kat's Studios with
Speaker 6: Stephanie Leidecer and Jeff Shane. It's important to note that
Speaker 6: George Wagner has pleaded not guilty and has maintained he
Speaker 6: did not kill anyone. His father, Billy Wagner, whose trial
Speaker 6: is upcoming, has also pleaded not guilty to all charges.
Speaker 6: Facing a mountain of evidence and testimony placing George Wagner
Speaker 6: the Fourth at the center of the plot to kill
Speaker 6: the Rodent family, his lawyers made a surprising decision to
Speaker 6: call him to the stand. The unexpected move was described
Speaker 6: as a quote Hail Mary by many trial watchers. During
Speaker 6: his testimony, George Wagner's lawyers painted him as the black
Speaker 6: sheep of the family. During the first day of his testimony,
Speaker 6: George calmly disputed nearly everything that had been said about
Speaker 6: him by other witnesses, and while describing his criminal upbringing,
Speaker 6: George Wagner frequently spoke of wanting to escape from his
Speaker 6: own family. Today.
Speaker 3: It was a bombshell day, if you will, of testimony.
Speaker 6: For nine weeks, George Wagner the Fourth has sat quietly
Speaker 6: as a parade of witnesses, from police investigators to his
Speaker 6: own brother and mother picked apart his claim of innocence
Speaker 6: and ignorance.
Speaker 3: George, let me adjust this microphone for you. Just keep
Speaker 3: your voice up real loud so hear you. Please stage
Speaker 3: your full name for the.
Speaker 2: Record, George washing King Wagner the Fourth.
Speaker 3: You've been sitting in this trial for any weeks.
Speaker 2: Right, yes.
Speaker 6: But on the forty second day of the trial, wearing
Speaker 6: a white collar dress shirt, dark tie, and a gray vest,
Speaker 6: George Wagner took the stands in his own defense. His
Speaker 6: attorney began by asking George to describe the troubled environment
Speaker 6: he grew up in.
Speaker 3: Let's talk about your education first. Okay, did you ever
Speaker 3: go to a public school.
Speaker 2: For a very short period of time?
Speaker 3: So how did you get your education?
Speaker 6: My mother homeschooled, but George Wagner's homeschooling didn't last long.
Speaker 6: By the age of fourteen, his official education was over.
Speaker 6: It was replaced by a different type of education.
Speaker 3: When did you quit?
Speaker 2: I felt that I didn't need anymore and I just
Speaker 2: wanted to do my own thing. My father quit in
Speaker 2: the sixth grade.
Speaker 3: And so what did you want to do? Qu school?
Speaker 3: What did you do with your life? Did you have
Speaker 3: any or aspiration?
Speaker 2: When I was a young kid, I wanted to be
Speaker 2: either a game warden or a forester. And when I
Speaker 2: got older, my father pushed me more towards being a
Speaker 2: decent mechanic and a truck driver. Was that my father
Speaker 2: didn't want nobody in the family that wore a badge?
Speaker 3: Why was that?
Speaker 2: He thought all law enforcement was crooked?
Speaker 6: George Wagner said when he was young, he and his
Speaker 6: father had a great relationship and that the pair spent
Speaker 6: many days hunting and fishing together. But his father, Billy Wagner,
Speaker 6: was also responsible for George Wagner's other education.
Speaker 3: In your youth, did he teach you other things?
Speaker 2: My father taught me how to open a lock, how
Speaker 2: to steal fuel, how the steel loads or break into loads?
Speaker 3: How did he actually do it? Did he set you
Speaker 3: down and explain.
Speaker 2: How he bought uh, like a lock pick set in
Speaker 2: terms of like a whole bunch of different locks and picks,
Speaker 2: And then you sit us down for hours until we
Speaker 2: could figure out how to open it?
Speaker 3: And what would what would he do? If anything? Would
Speaker 3: you want you learn how to do that?
Speaker 2: After my brother and I learned how to do it,
Speaker 2: he would go from my hotel to hotel in different
Speaker 2: counties and open the vending machines in them.
Speaker 3: Would he do it?
Speaker 2: Usually you'd have my brother do it. Why your brother,
Speaker 2: My brother can open the lock in a matter of seconds, right, well.
Speaker 3: What about your three four minutes? So your brother was
Speaker 3: a little better picking locks? To me, Yes that your
Speaker 3: dad took both in and around to pick one. Yes,
Speaker 3: what kind of locks would you have? Your pick?
Speaker 2: Pad locks? Vending machine locks was the most common door
Speaker 2: locks on trucks. Ignition, which is all right? And what
Speaker 2: would be the purpose vending machines? Yeah, he would take
Speaker 2: the coin box and the cash box out of it.
Speaker 3: And did he teach you anything else around that age?
Speaker 2: Just how to break in the trailers and drive off
Speaker 2: his loads.
Speaker 7: And with the loads, you go around, take the padlock
Speaker 7: and the hinges off so you don't break the seal.
Speaker 2: It's it's the seal is broken. It's instantly. Somebody's been
Speaker 2: in it. So you got to take a hinge off
Speaker 2: and open it without it. But you see what's in
Speaker 2: the trailer. If it's something you wanted, then you'd unload it.
Speaker 2: If it's not, you put the handback on the way.
Speaker 3: Ever knows it was opened, right and your was with you?
Speaker 2: Yes, all right?
Speaker 3: And he would pick out the truck. Yes, did he
Speaker 3: have any like methods or codes or anything like that
Speaker 3: as far as how would he pick out truck?
Speaker 2: Usually it had to end up being a company truck.
Speaker 2: But Walmart was like the one he went after more
Speaker 2: than anything.
Speaker 3: And why was that you do?
Speaker 2: He despises Walmart. I don't know why.
Speaker 3: Now did your mother know about these activities?
Speaker 2: Yes? She was there ninety nine percent of the time.
Speaker 3: Yes, and she knew your father was teaching.
Speaker 6: Yes.
Speaker 3: Were there other things that your father taught you around
Speaker 3: how the steel fuel steal fuel? Yes, so your dad
Speaker 3: taught you to steel fuel and pick lots. When you
Speaker 3: would go out with your father, would he ever teach
Speaker 3: you to look out for things or not look out
Speaker 3: for things? Is or anything like that?
Speaker 2: So the job was you were always supposed to make
Speaker 2: sure you could see a top before they seen you,
Speaker 2: or to know where every camera was.
Speaker 3: All right, So why did you explain how he touched it? Uh?
Speaker 2: It really goes back to when I was a kid
Speaker 2: and he was still around in Pennsylvania a lot for
Speaker 2: every cop me or my brother would see, we'd get
Speaker 2: a dollar when we were a kid, all right, And
Speaker 2: that goes back to like eight years old, even before
Speaker 2: he started the theft.
Speaker 3: And how old is that life's weird?
Speaker 2: Can eleven? He would go around and start out with
Speaker 2: the we'd go down one street or something and if
Speaker 2: we missed one that he missed, then we'd lose four
Speaker 2: wheeler for a week. Or if he pointed one out,
Speaker 2: the wee get and see we get four wheeler taken
Speaker 2: for a week.
Speaker 6: Here's Stephanie and Jeff.
Speaker 8: The fact that George Wagner took the stand in his
Speaker 8: own defense unexpectedly.
Speaker 2: Nobody in the.
Speaker 8: Courtroom was anticipating him to take the stand that day,
Speaker 8: and I have to say he was very composed. He
Speaker 8: seemed very prepared. I mean, think about it. The stakes
Speaker 8: could not be higher for him. And when he describes
Speaker 8: his childhood, it's almost as though he was born into
Speaker 8: a family of con artists. You know, here he is
Speaker 8: being taught how to pick padlocks and steal fuel and
Speaker 8: steal coins from vending machines. These are crimes. Granted, they
Speaker 8: are petty crimes and nowhere equivalent to murder, but it
Speaker 8: does paint a picture of what was happening in his
Speaker 8: early days.
Speaker 9: It's possible that the defense was feeling the pressure and
Speaker 9: decided it can't hurt to have George Wagner take the stand.
Speaker 9: And I think he did a pretty good job. He
Speaker 9: does not seem emotional to me. He seems more credible
Speaker 9: than Jake and Angela Wagner. Now it might be different
Speaker 9: because Jake and Angela Wagner's stories line up, she said,
Speaker 9: versus he said. I mean, he's extremely prepared for this moment.
Speaker 9: You know, we might be surprised, but I imagine this
Speaker 9: is something he and his lawyers were working on for
Speaker 9: weeks and probably running through potential questions and potential answers.
Speaker 9: So for him, this is the culmination of probably a
Speaker 9: lot of practice.
Speaker 8: And remember accused killer Dad Billy Wagner, he's very anti government,
Speaker 8: anti law enforcement. We've heard many, many stories about him
Speaker 8: preparing for the end of days. So the other side
Speaker 8: of this is, you know, in a very rural area
Speaker 8: in the event of a disaster, Billy Wagner wanted to
Speaker 8: make sure that their kids were prepared and could survive
Speaker 8: in any situation. That's the nice way of framing it.
Speaker 8: But the truth was they were stealing, and they were
Speaker 8: stealing on a very high level at a very young age.
Speaker 9: If I'm the Rodent family, I'm thinking, I don't care.
Speaker 9: There's no excuse for allegedly murdering eight people. To me,
Speaker 9: you know, you got your ATV taken.
Speaker 3: Away as a kid.
Speaker 9: I don't know how that equates to being a part
Speaker 9: of an eight person homicide. But again, I mean this
Speaker 9: whole case. You know, we've heard a lot of things
Speaker 9: that we don't think are relevant, and what the jury
Speaker 9: is thinking and what the judge's thinking, we can't say.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean, it's interesting context because obviously George Wagner's
Speaker 8: attorneys are really painting a picture of a guy who
Speaker 8: was considered maybe second best to his brother. Much has
Speaker 8: been made about perhaps Jake was favored by his parents
Speaker 8: and that George was always the outcast and trying to
Speaker 8: step away from the family and maybe look away from
Speaker 8: their scams and cons and just try to get out
Speaker 8: to make a better life for himself. It matters, maybe
Speaker 8: because it offers some insight into how he just has
Speaker 8: always been used to ignoring them, and maybe that's how
Speaker 8: he was able to ignore the fact that his family
Speaker 8: was commiserating to murder eight people. Or is that just
Speaker 8: wildly far fetched now decades later? Does that excuse you
Speaker 8: of what you're being accused of? On the other hand,
Speaker 8: it also does paint a picture of how people are
Speaker 8: potentially indocrinated into really dangerous behavior.
Speaker 6: By the time George Wagner was a teenager. He said
Speaker 6: he was growing apart from his own family and that
Speaker 6: he was growing closer to his uncle Chris Nucom. The
Speaker 6: two regularly went hunting and rode ATVs around the farm.
Speaker 3: Let's talk about chrispher More. Explain your relationship with Chris.
Speaker 2: Chris is more like a brother to me than an uncle.
Speaker 2: That we were almost identical, and everything we like and do.
Speaker 3: And what type of things would you do to you go.
Speaker 2: Mudd and hunting, fishing, Just see how far we could
Speaker 2: go on four wheeler in a day.
Speaker 3: And would Jake be part of.
Speaker 2: This in his own way? Sometimes?
Speaker 3: Yes? All right?
Speaker 2: He was always left behind?
Speaker 3: And what was he left hunt?
Speaker 2: He didn't want to get his four wheeler as dirt Michael, ever,
Speaker 2: he had dirty and he'd run like two mile an hour?
Speaker 3: And how were you and kristin?
Speaker 2: Kind of like a bad out help.
Speaker 6: George Wagner said his brother Jake preferred to play video
Speaker 6: games and to play with action figures.
Speaker 2: He had hundreds of them. Every time he got as
Speaker 2: a young kid, he spent on action figures. He would
Speaker 2: set them up on the shelf and stare at them
Speaker 2: for hours.
Speaker 3: And did you play with him as well?
Speaker 2: No? But I would go in and move them when
Speaker 2: he was there, just to see if he'd knows it,
Speaker 2: and you could move with like a centimeter he'd know.
Speaker 3: And did that ever cause any products?
Speaker 2: Many many of fights?
Speaker 3: Would you do that just to kind of double your brother?
Speaker 2: Just to antagonizing this?
Speaker 3: Antagonize him? Did he have any particular video games he liked?
Speaker 2: Marvel Universe, Resident Evil left for Dad? That's another one.
Speaker 2: I can't remember what it was.
Speaker 3: What other type of things would you and Chris as.
Speaker 2: You got over right? Party run girls?
Speaker 6: Wagner testified he started drinking alcohol at age thirteen and
Speaker 6: was partying regularly around the time he was eighteen years old.
Speaker 6: George met Frankie Rodin the pair became quick friends.
Speaker 2: Did you consider it a good friend or I can
Speaker 2: said you one of my best friends?
Speaker 6: George said his life changed once he got his driver's license.
Speaker 6: He made new friends and was able to get away
Speaker 6: from his mother Angela and brother Jake.
Speaker 2: Because I have freedom. Freedom I could leave when I wanted,
Speaker 2: hang out for my uncle or Frankie or John and
Speaker 2: Nathan Walls Garrett Leaf all right?
Speaker 3: And did that cause any problems?
Speaker 2: Back home on Bethel Hood, my mom was never happy
Speaker 2: about it.
Speaker 3: Tell us about that.
Speaker 2: She always said that I was leaving my brother to
Speaker 2: do all the work, and I needed to be more
Speaker 2: like him to stay home.
Speaker 6: Around the time George got his driver's license, his father,
Speaker 6: Billy Wagner, bought him a huge Chevy pickup truck for
Speaker 6: about twenty five hundred dollars. But even that purchase created
Speaker 6: lasting tension because Billy Wagner also bought more expensive pickup
Speaker 6: for Jake.
Speaker 2: He got his three or four months before mine. My
Speaker 2: mother made my father buy it for him, all right.
Speaker 3: Was it a cheap truck and expensive truck?
Speaker 2: It was sixteen thousand dollars, So he.
Speaker 3: Got this sixteen thousand dollars truck before you got any truck?
Speaker 2: Yes? And how did that make you feel considering the
Speaker 2: one I wanted? Was I was told no for? And
Speaker 2: then a couple of weeks later they bought my brother's
Speaker 2: truck that was the same price. It not a good
Speaker 2: feeling for a fifteen year old.
Speaker 3: Did you express your feelings?
Speaker 2: I brought it up many times my entire life.
Speaker 3: A little bit bitter about that.
Speaker 6: Yes, Still there, with freedom and new friends, George Wagner
Speaker 6: spent most of his free time partying with Frankie roodin
Speaker 6: at nearby Big Bear Lake.
Speaker 3: Describe the drinking parties or whatever that you did.
Speaker 2: You played drinking games and drink until one of us
Speaker 2: fell out, which was usually me.
Speaker 3: Right, Did you enjoy that?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 3: Did that cause any problems back at the home?
Speaker 2: Yeah? My mother didn't let me being down there.
Speaker 3: Why.
Speaker 2: She said it was a bad environment and a bad
Speaker 2: influences and I was basically going to end up sending
Speaker 2: myself to hell from it.
Speaker 3: And how would she tell you that or when would
Speaker 3: she tell you that?
Speaker 2: Almost daily?
Speaker 6: George testified that his mother, Angela, regularly berated him for
Speaker 6: his amoral lifestyle, also that she viewed Jake is an angel.
Speaker 2: When my mother had him paranoid that he was going
Speaker 2: to go to hell, and she kept beating into everybody's
Speaker 2: head if you do anything that you're making Jesus cry
Speaker 2: and you're going to end up going to hell. She
Speaker 2: would say that all the time. If you say one
Speaker 2: curse word, or if you do anything which she thought
Speaker 2: was that appropriate. What would she say that you're in,
Speaker 2: you know, going down entirely bad road, or you're making
Speaker 2: Jesus cry for this or that or depending on the situation.
Speaker 2: What was your reaction, I really didn't have one. I
Speaker 2: did what I wanted to do.
Speaker 3: What about Jake?
Speaker 2: Jake was always terrified of going to help.
Speaker 3: How would you describe Jake as compared to you at
Speaker 3: this point?
Speaker 2: At this point, yeah, we are nothing alike.
Speaker 3: And how would you describe your relationship as you went
Speaker 3: through your teams.
Speaker 2: I spend as much time away from Jake as I
Speaker 2: possibly could.
Speaker 6: We're going to take a break. We'll be back in
Speaker 6: a moment. George described his brother Jake as rude and
Speaker 6: lacking a filter.
Speaker 2: He goes with somebody's house and he thinks he's dirty.
Speaker 2: He's gonna tell him your house is filthy. If he
Speaker 2: thinks you stink, he'll tell you go take a shower.
Speaker 2: He has no filter.
Speaker 3: Did that cause a problem.
Speaker 2: Yes. He insults people, and a lot of my friends
Speaker 2: and stuff didn't like him being around. Did that cause
Speaker 2: you yes, because then they didn't want to hang out
Speaker 2: with me. My brother thinks that he's a satan, can
Speaker 2: do no wrong, and he's better than everybody. And he
Speaker 2: thinks that him being honest with people is what people
Speaker 2: wants to hear about his opinion of their self, and did.
Speaker 3: That cause a problem with your relationship with your mom?
Speaker 2: Yes, my mother thinks that I should be like him.
Speaker 2: She's always said that, what do you mean. She thinks
Speaker 2: that he's a satan, does no wrong, and she thinks
Speaker 2: that I'm basically going to help.
Speaker 6: Here's investigative journalists and lawn crime reporter Anjeanette Levy.
Speaker 4: He made it sound like, you know, angela favorite Jake.
Speaker 4: He always got in trouble for what Jake did. Jake
Speaker 4: would blame him for things when they were kids. But
Speaker 4: I mean, he said, straight up, we don't get along.
Speaker 4: We'd fight all the time, and sometimes we get along,
Speaker 4: and then most of the times we didn't. I can't
Speaker 4: imagine existing like that. He said there were times he
Speaker 4: wanted to leave, and I wondered if that was really true,
Speaker 4: and maybe he did want to leave, but he didn't
Speaker 4: do it.
Speaker 6: Later, George told the jury that his younger brother Jake,
Speaker 6: was also regular at Big Bear Lake, but instead of partying,
Speaker 6: Jake would hang out with his new thirteen year old girlfriend,
Speaker 6: Hannah Mee Rodin.
Speaker 2: He would sit in the tan or around the campfire,
Speaker 2: back and ark where he was with Hannah all night.
Speaker 3: He wouldn't join in with the Drew.
Speaker 2: No, he wouldn't let Hannah either.
Speaker 3: Did Anna try to join sometimes?
Speaker 2: Yes, Jake wouldn't let her go. What he getting more
Speaker 2: in Hannah having bad influences dranking her party.
Speaker 6: At this point in George's testimony, Having set up the
Speaker 6: tensions between George and his mother and brother, defense attorney
Speaker 6: John Parker pivoted back to the Wagner's life on Bethel
Speaker 6: Hill and began to unpack the Wagner's history of criminal activity.
Speaker 2: The first house was a single white trailer. When six
Speaker 2: years old, my mother tried to burn the house down.
Speaker 2: That failed because she didn't know what she was doing
Speaker 2: in the beginning, all right, explain the if there was
Speaker 2: no heir, it's mother's out. And she had everything closed
Speaker 2: up in the beginning, so just a kitchen, living room.
Speaker 3: Mary barn all right, and your mother set that on fire.
Speaker 2: She had my father set it on fire. But it
Speaker 2: was her plan, and she's the one taught my father
Speaker 2: how to do it right.
Speaker 1: And you remember this when you were six or seven
Speaker 1: years old? And what did you think about that when
Speaker 1: you were a kid.
Speaker 6: Really had no improt on it, George said, after his
Speaker 6: parents remodeled their first trailer. They added a second one,
Speaker 6: but once again, his parents set fire to their newly
Speaker 6: remodeled home.
Speaker 3: In two thousand. You were about nine years old roughly,
Speaker 3: all right? And what do you mean they.
Speaker 2: Burned hy burned that one down and succeeded with that one.
Speaker 3: Who's dead?
Speaker 2: My father and my mother?
Speaker 3: And how did they burned?
Speaker 2: Same MESSI there's always a whole batch of newspapers stuck
Speaker 2: underneath the fusebox.
Speaker 1: So at this point in time, when you're nine years old,
Speaker 1: approximately your first two homes have been burned by your
Speaker 1: mom and dad.
Speaker 6: Yes, later, the Wagoners built a more permanent home on
Speaker 6: their property. It was nicknamed the quote Kentucky Wonder Mansion,
Speaker 6: and George said he was fond of this house because
Speaker 6: he had his own area that allowed him to leave
Speaker 6: whenever he wanted. George said he often did this to
Speaker 6: avoid working with his mother in her dog breeding business.
Speaker 2: She expected me and my brother to put in eight
Speaker 2: to ten hour days and basically not get paid for it. Okay,
Speaker 2: So every time she'd turn her back, I'd be gone.
Speaker 3: And so what did your mom played?
Speaker 2: She'd always throw a fit for me leaving my brother.
Speaker 3: And did she sell a lot of dogs? Lots of
Speaker 3: them made money at it? A lot, right? And what
Speaker 3: type of dogs.
Speaker 2: At that point? English bulldogs and laborator treads?
Speaker 3: Yes, were they always pure bread?
Speaker 2: She would well start with the labs. The English bulldogs
Speaker 2: were legit because it's hard to find something that looks
Speaker 2: like them. But the labs. If one of the females
Speaker 2: had eight puffs, she would go to the pound and
Speaker 2: get four or five more if it look like them.
Speaker 2: And if she sold the eight, she'd just say she
Speaker 2: didn't sell the eight, and then she'd resell the ones
Speaker 2: that she got from the pound that may or may
Speaker 2: not be a lab. Occasionally, if it had a white
Speaker 2: spot on a black dog that looked identical to a lab,
Speaker 2: she'd just dye the hair. Who was she would dye
Speaker 2: the hair so it would turn it black and you
Speaker 2: wouldn't have had a white spot on it. And how
Speaker 2: long did the dog business go on until it burned?
Speaker 3: What happened?
Speaker 2: We came home from Columbus one night, late at night,
Speaker 2: and it was laying in ashes, all four a dog
Speaker 2: cannels And how many dogs close to one hundred?
Speaker 3: Did you ever find out how that dog kill or burn?
Speaker 6: But the fires didn't stop. George said his parents burnt
Speaker 6: the Kentucky Wonder Mansion in two thousand and seven. When
Speaker 6: his parents considered moving to Alaska, however, they decided to
Speaker 6: stay in Ohio and built a new house, which contained
Speaker 6: a special room in the basement for a new business
Speaker 6: opportunity with Chris Roden Sr.
Speaker 3: All Right, what was ever used?
Speaker 2: It was used for growing marijuana.
Speaker 3: Explain that it.
Speaker 2: Was ten foot wide by forty foot long.
Speaker 3: All right? And were you ever in that room?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 3: Why not?
Speaker 2: I don't agree with drugs.
Speaker 6: George also testified that his family once stole a truckload
Speaker 6: of boots.
Speaker 2: From the beginning, my father and other people that he
Speaker 2: drove with had choices. Basically, they were either going to
Speaker 2: take a load of diapers or a load of rocky boots.
Speaker 2: Who actually hooked the trailer? I can't say. I was
Speaker 2: not there. I don't live who hooked it. But the
Speaker 2: plan was either the diapers or the boots. My mother
Speaker 2: was pushing for the diapers, and my father and his
Speaker 2: friends all wanted the boots, so my mother sided with
Speaker 2: them and they went with the boots.
Speaker 3: Okay, So what happened then?
Speaker 2: The boots showed up, and my dad's friends and hit
Speaker 2: their family. My dad, my brother, and I my mom
Speaker 2: unloaded the trailer, all right.
Speaker 3: And so what what happened next?
Speaker 2: We unloaded it and he got divided three ways, and
Speaker 2: then they hauled the trailer out. Why everybody hauled their
Speaker 2: boots to whoever's house they were going to?
Speaker 3: And how many boots are we talking about it?
Speaker 2: Fifty three one oh two load thousands.
Speaker 3: Thousands of boots? Yes, and your mom.
Speaker 2: Was involved in that, Yes, she helped plant, She helped plant.
Speaker 3: Yes, and so did you guys get some of the boots.
Speaker 2: Everybody in Pike County was wearing Rocky boots at that point.
Speaker 1: Are you aware of any other deaths between two thousand
Speaker 1: and five twenty fourteen, bomb or dad or family?
Speaker 2: How many do you want me to go into, because
Speaker 2: I can go for days.
Speaker 6: George Wagner detailed many other crimes his family committed, from
Speaker 6: stealing Dell computers to copper wiring after the items were sold.
Speaker 6: George said his father, Billy Wagner, would hide money around
Speaker 6: the country.
Speaker 3: Did your dad ever tell you something about a pension
Speaker 3: plant he had?
Speaker 2: My father used to say that he buried money across
Speaker 2: the US in different spots. When he gets big, big
Speaker 2: loads of stuff that he would take in all to
Speaker 2: Mexico and sell. He would take the money and bury it.
Speaker 3: Where would he bury it?
Speaker 2: I can't say that, just know somewhere between here and Texas,
Speaker 2: That's what he told. He said, multiple places.
Speaker 3: So if your standard, he would take a load.
Speaker 2: Of what copper, aluminum, and he would come back.
Speaker 3: Yes, what would he come back with?
Speaker 2: Brown paper bags full of money?
Speaker 3: How much money?
Speaker 2: Anywhere? One hundred and two hundred thousand, depending on what
Speaker 2: the price of scrap was at that time.
Speaker 3: How do you know it?
Speaker 2: Because my brother and I would count it.
Speaker 3: That was your job, Yes, to count that one.
Speaker 6: Yes, here again, Stephanie and Jeff.
Speaker 8: This is pretty shocking. It's a pretty wild detail. Two
Speaker 8: hundred thousand dollars in a little brown bag is a
Speaker 8: lot of cash. So you're buying scraps, You're stealing scraps
Speaker 8: of aluminum and copper, and then hiding the money in
Speaker 8: various places throughout the country.
Speaker 3: It's a big plan.
Speaker 8: It shows a lot of thinking. By the way, if
Speaker 8: any of the wagoners were using some of these clever
Speaker 8: ways of making money legally, imagine how successful they would be.
Speaker 8: It takes a lot of thought and preparation and care
Speaker 8: to even come up with the plan to be able
Speaker 8: to hide money in various parts of the country, And
Speaker 8: all of the stealing and the thieving and the oursin
Speaker 8: and the receipts, it's just all used for bad. Does
Speaker 8: that mean it's not such a leap to imagine them
Speaker 8: as murderers? Maybe not.
Speaker 9: Where I think George Wagner's testimony goes a little off
Speaker 9: the rails is this section about bearing money and all
Speaker 9: of the things, because to me, it just makes the
Speaker 9: whole family only seem more out of their minds, and
Speaker 9: they looked at themselves as this criminal enterprise who everyone
Speaker 9: was out to get them, and they were being trailed
Speaker 9: and tracked at all the moments of the day, so
Speaker 9: much so that they had to hide money across the
Speaker 9: country and brown paper bags. It only to me adds
Speaker 9: to the level of depravity and true lunacy that was
Speaker 9: going on inside this home that, by all accounts, George
Speaker 9: Wagner the fourth was very much a part of.
Speaker 6: Let's stop here for another break. Despite being close to
Speaker 6: his father as a young boy, the pair grew apart
Speaker 6: when George was a teenager and after his father Billy,
Speaker 6: began driving long haul truck.
Speaker 2: Routes after the dog kennels burned the last one, my
Speaker 2: father started driving the truck.
Speaker 3: And did you notice any changes in your father after
Speaker 3: he started driving.
Speaker 2: Yes, my father has a habit of wanting to be
Speaker 2: identical to whoever he takes to the father figure at
Speaker 2: the time.
Speaker 3: What do you mean by that?
Speaker 2: He has daddy issues?
Speaker 3: Okay? And so when he started driving truck, did you
Speaker 3: notice a change?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 3: What did you know?
Speaker 2: The guy he was driving with took multiple different things
Speaker 2: to stay awake, and my father couldn't keep up with him,
Speaker 2: so he started doing the same thing.
Speaker 3: What do you mean he started doing the thing.
Speaker 2: He would take? What's that guy he was driving with
Speaker 2: was taking, like taking multiple handfuls of ad effects and
Speaker 2: pain pills.
Speaker 3: And did you notice any changes in his.
Speaker 2: Behaf It made him very irritable, hard to be around.
Speaker 3: Did that cause any problems in your relationship.
Speaker 1: With I loved it, He said he had a tumultuous
Speaker 1: relationship with his father, Billy ever called three fist fights
Speaker 1: they got into over the years.
Speaker 2: My brother ran me over with my own truck when
Speaker 2: he was trying to look up a trailer and I
Speaker 2: was yelling at my brother, and for some reason my
Speaker 2: father went off on me, right, and.
Speaker 3: He said, your brother, Randy Lowe, was a a purpose.
Speaker 2: Or an accident. He was not paying attention.
Speaker 3: Were you injured?
Speaker 2: Not really? Just a little black and blue, all right?
Speaker 3: And so what happened?
Speaker 2: My father thought I was just yelling at my brother
Speaker 2: for no reason and pushed me up against my truck
Speaker 2: and dared me to hit him.
Speaker 3: Okay, and you were sixteen, yes, and so what happened?
Speaker 2: I was just fed up with it, so I hit him.
Speaker 2: What do you mean I hauled off and hit.
Speaker 3: Him with your fist? Yes, And what happened?
Speaker 2: Then he hit the ground and he got back up
Speaker 2: and we went into a fist fight.
Speaker 3: How long did that?
Speaker 2: A few minutes till my mother broke it up?
Speaker 3: And so did that first fist fight affect your relationship
Speaker 3: with your death?
Speaker 2: We didn't speak for a few weeks after that.
Speaker 1: And so were there other instances or other times you
Speaker 1: got into a fight.
Speaker 3: With your dad?
Speaker 2: Yes? Three more. I remember two more fist fights. In
Speaker 2: one that was just like a massive verbal argument. He
Speaker 2: called me dumb, say I wouldn't listen. Call me ignorant
Speaker 2: all the time I worry about in my late teens.
Speaker 3: So what happened?
Speaker 2: Then I hit him again?
Speaker 3: Did he hit your back?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 3: What happened?
Speaker 2: We got into another fist fight for four or five
Speaker 2: minutes until it endedn't.
Speaker 3: Did that affect your relationship?
Speaker 2: Another three or four weeks and they're talking to each other.
Speaker 6: In early twenty sixteen, there was another fight between George
Speaker 6: and Billy. This one nearly turned deadly.
Speaker 2: My father got upset and while I was leaving and
Speaker 2: broke the passenger's side window out of the truck and
Speaker 2: shattered me a glass.
Speaker 3: How did he do that?
Speaker 2: He punched the window and then then my aari always
Speaker 2: kept on my dash, He grabbed it and threw it
Speaker 2: across the yard into the dog pin.
Speaker 6: Fift.
Speaker 1: That's a gun, yes, and so you broke out the
Speaker 1: passenger side window and grabbed your gun that was on
Speaker 1: the dash.
Speaker 3: And so what happened after?
Speaker 2: I got upset because he just threw my arm But
Speaker 2: I just recently bought a few months prior, and me
Speaker 2: and my father went to another fist fight. Not to
Speaker 2: really go into a lot of detail, but my father lost.
Speaker 3: So did that affect your relationship?
Speaker 2: Yes, we went over two months without speaking. I want to.
Speaker 6: Say more on that next time. For more information on
Speaker 6: the case and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at
Speaker 6: katie Underscore Studios. The piked In Maskers produced by Stephanie Leidecker,
Speaker 6: Jeff Shane, Connor Powell, Andrew Arnell, Gabriel Castillo and me
Speaker 6: Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed by Jeff Ta Music
Speaker 6: by Jared Aston. The piked In Masker is a production
Speaker 6: of iHeartRadio on Katie's Studios. For more podcasts from iHeart Radio,
Speaker 6: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
Speaker 6: to your favorite shows.