WEBVTT - George Wagner Takes the Stand 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:05.120 Were you aware at any time that Jake and your 0:00:05.200 --> 0:00:07.640 dad and your mom weren't planning to kill the Rose? 0:00:08.080 --> 0:00:08.160 No? 0:00:08.800 --> 0:00:10.079 Was that ever discussed with you? 0:00:10.360 --> 0:00:10.440 No? 0:00:11.400 --> 0:00:14.680 He said straight up, we don't get along. He said 0:00:14.680 --> 0:00:16.639 there were times he wanted to leave, and I wondered 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:19.239 if that was really true, and maybe he did want. 0:00:19.040 --> 0:00:20.919 To leave, but he didn't do it. 0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:27.360 Describe your relationship name I looked hand as a baby sister. 0:00:29.160 --> 0:00:32.680 I personally was surprised that the sent specifically said were 0:00:32.680 --> 0:00:34.360 you there? Did you do anything you know about it? 0:00:34.400 --> 0:00:36.479 Any time? When did you find out that they were 0:00:36.520 --> 0:00:39.519 guilty or that they had actually participated? 0:00:40.440 --> 0:00:42.839 I never would have believed my family would be capable 0:00:42.840 --> 0:00:49.800 of doing something of this magnitude. 0:00:50.640 --> 0:00:53.640 This is the Pike Did Massacre Returned to Pike County 0:00:54.400 --> 0:00:58.760 Season four, episode twenty one, George Wagner takes the stand. 0:01:00.360 --> 0:01:03.760 I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at Kat's Studios with 0:01:03.800 --> 0:01:07.319 Stephanie Leidecer and Jeff Shane. It's important to note that 0:01:07.360 --> 0:01:10.600 George Wagner has pleaded not guilty and has maintained he 0:01:10.640 --> 0:01:14.400 did not kill anyone. His father, Billy Wagner, whose trial 0:01:14.440 --> 0:01:17.640 is upcoming, has also pleaded not guilty to all charges. 0:01:19.200 --> 0:01:22.400 Facing a mountain of evidence and testimony placing George Wagner 0:01:22.440 --> 0:01:24.320 the Fourth at the center of the plot to kill 0:01:24.319 --> 0:01:27.560 the Rodent family, his lawyers made a surprising decision to 0:01:27.600 --> 0:01:32.080 call him to the stand. The unexpected move was described 0:01:32.120 --> 0:01:36.600 as a quote Hail Mary by many trial watchers. During 0:01:36.640 --> 0:01:39.880 his testimony, George Wagner's lawyers painted him as the black 0:01:39.920 --> 0:01:43.400 sheep of the family. During the first day of his testimony, 0:01:43.720 --> 0:01:46.839 George calmly disputed nearly everything that had been said about 0:01:46.880 --> 0:01:50.440 him by other witnesses, and while describing his criminal upbringing, 0:01:50.840 --> 0:01:53.640 George Wagner frequently spoke of wanting to escape from his 0:01:53.680 --> 0:01:55.520 own family. Today. 0:01:55.640 --> 0:01:58.000 It was a bombshell day, if you will, of testimony. 0:01:58.840 --> 0:02:02.040 For nine weeks, George Wagner the Fourth has sat quietly 0:02:02.280 --> 0:02:05.360 as a parade of witnesses, from police investigators to his 0:02:05.400 --> 0:02:08.440 own brother and mother picked apart his claim of innocence 0:02:08.560 --> 0:02:09.240 and ignorance. 0:02:09.639 --> 0:02:12.440 George, let me adjust this microphone for you. Just keep 0:02:12.480 --> 0:02:17.520 your voice up real loud so hear you. Please stage 0:02:17.520 --> 0:02:18.480 your full name for the. 0:02:18.440 --> 0:02:20.720 Record, George washing King Wagner the Fourth. 0:02:21.200 --> 0:02:24.640 You've been sitting in this trial for any weeks. 0:02:24.200 --> 0:02:24.840 Right, yes. 0:02:25.400 --> 0:02:27.680 But on the forty second day of the trial, wearing 0:02:27.680 --> 0:02:30.639 a white collar dress shirt, dark tie, and a gray vest, 0:02:31.040 --> 0:02:33.960 George Wagner took the stands in his own defense. His 0:02:34.040 --> 0:02:37.840 attorney began by asking George to describe the troubled environment 0:02:38.160 --> 0:02:38.880 he grew up in. 0:02:39.760 --> 0:02:44.560 Let's talk about your education first. Okay, did you ever 0:02:44.600 --> 0:02:46.080 go to a public school. 0:02:46.440 --> 0:02:48.079 For a very short period of time? 0:02:48.800 --> 0:02:50.160 So how did you get your education? 0:02:51.040 --> 0:02:54.960 My mother homeschooled, but George Wagner's homeschooling didn't last long. 0:02:55.240 --> 0:02:58.320 By the age of fourteen, his official education was over. 0:02:58.840 --> 0:03:01.160 It was replaced by a different type of education. 0:03:02.480 --> 0:03:03.320 When did you quit? 0:03:03.800 --> 0:03:06.040 I felt that I didn't need anymore and I just 0:03:06.080 --> 0:03:08.160 wanted to do my own thing. My father quit in 0:03:08.160 --> 0:03:09.040 the sixth grade. 0:03:08.800 --> 0:03:13.239 And so what did you want to do? Qu school? 0:03:13.639 --> 0:03:16.079 What did you do with your life? Did you have 0:03:16.120 --> 0:03:17.440 any or aspiration? 0:03:18.280 --> 0:03:19.799 When I was a young kid, I wanted to be 0:03:19.880 --> 0:03:22.720 either a game warden or a forester. And when I 0:03:22.720 --> 0:03:25.720 got older, my father pushed me more towards being a 0:03:25.800 --> 0:03:30.400 decent mechanic and a truck driver. Was that my father 0:03:30.440 --> 0:03:32.560 didn't want nobody in the family that wore a badge? 0:03:33.160 --> 0:03:34.239 Why was that? 0:03:34.320 --> 0:03:36.280 He thought all law enforcement was crooked? 0:03:37.920 --> 0:03:40.080 George Wagner said when he was young, he and his 0:03:40.120 --> 0:03:42.760 father had a great relationship and that the pair spent 0:03:42.840 --> 0:03:46.840 many days hunting and fishing together. But his father, Billy Wagner, 0:03:46.960 --> 0:03:50.560 was also responsible for George Wagner's other education. 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:54.160 In your youth, did he teach you other things? 0:03:54.280 --> 0:03:57.280 My father taught me how to open a lock, how 0:03:57.320 --> 0:04:01.120 to steal fuel, how the steel loads or break into loads? 0:04:01.680 --> 0:04:03.480 How did he actually do it? Did he set you 0:04:03.600 --> 0:04:04.600 down and explain. 0:04:04.320 --> 0:04:07.520 How he bought uh, like a lock pick set in 0:04:07.560 --> 0:04:09.720 terms of like a whole bunch of different locks and picks, 0:04:09.720 --> 0:04:12.720 And then you sit us down for hours until we 0:04:12.720 --> 0:04:13.880 could figure out how to open it? 0:04:15.240 --> 0:04:19.000 And what would what would he do? If anything? Would 0:04:19.120 --> 0:04:20.520 you want you learn how to do that? 0:04:21.480 --> 0:04:23.320 After my brother and I learned how to do it, 0:04:23.360 --> 0:04:26.120 he would go from my hotel to hotel in different 0:04:26.120 --> 0:04:28.719 counties and open the vending machines in them. 0:04:29.400 --> 0:04:31.000 Would he do it? 0:04:31.200 --> 0:04:33.480 Usually you'd have my brother do it. Why your brother, 0:04:34.000 --> 0:04:37.240 My brother can open the lock in a matter of seconds, right, well. 0:04:37.200 --> 0:04:40.800 What about your three four minutes? So your brother was 0:04:40.800 --> 0:04:43.520 a little better picking locks? To me, Yes that your 0:04:43.600 --> 0:04:46.680 dad took both in and around to pick one. Yes, 0:04:46.920 --> 0:04:48.400 what kind of locks would you have? Your pick? 0:04:49.839 --> 0:04:53.400 Pad locks? Vending machine locks was the most common door 0:04:53.480 --> 0:04:56.720 locks on trucks. Ignition, which is all right? And what 0:04:56.760 --> 0:05:01.800 would be the purpose vending machines? Yeah, he would take 0:05:01.839 --> 0:05:03.680 the coin box and the cash box out of it. 0:05:04.600 --> 0:05:09.039 And did he teach you anything else around that age? 0:05:10.080 --> 0:05:13.000 Just how to break in the trailers and drive off 0:05:13.040 --> 0:05:13.520 his loads. 0:05:13.520 --> 0:05:22.320 And with the loads, you go around, take the padlock 0:05:22.400 --> 0:05:25.000 and the hinges off so you don't break the seal. 0:05:25.960 --> 0:05:29.080 It's it's the seal is broken. It's instantly. Somebody's been 0:05:29.080 --> 0:05:30.560 in it. So you got to take a hinge off 0:05:30.560 --> 0:05:34.120 and open it without it. But you see what's in 0:05:34.160 --> 0:05:36.640 the trailer. If it's something you wanted, then you'd unload it. 0:05:36.680 --> 0:05:38.440 If it's not, you put the handback on the way. 0:05:38.440 --> 0:05:43.400 Ever knows it was opened, right and your was with you? 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:44.560 Yes, all right? 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:47.400 And he would pick out the truck. Yes, did he 0:05:47.520 --> 0:05:52.160 have any like methods or codes or anything like that 0:05:52.240 --> 0:05:53.960 as far as how would he pick out truck? 0:05:55.279 --> 0:05:58.279 Usually it had to end up being a company truck. 0:05:58.800 --> 0:06:00.880 But Walmart was like the one he went after more 0:06:00.880 --> 0:06:01.400 than anything. 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:03.120 And why was that you do? 0:06:03.520 --> 0:06:06.240 He despises Walmart. I don't know why. 0:06:07.880 --> 0:06:10.080 Now did your mother know about these activities? 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:12.360 Yes? She was there ninety nine percent of the time. 0:06:13.680 --> 0:06:16.520 Yes, and she knew your father was teaching. 0:06:16.839 --> 0:06:17.239 Yes. 0:06:18.400 --> 0:06:20.800 Were there other things that your father taught you around 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:27.000 how the steel fuel steal fuel? Yes, so your dad 0:06:27.040 --> 0:06:30.120 taught you to steel fuel and pick lots. When you 0:06:30.120 --> 0:06:32.840 would go out with your father, would he ever teach 0:06:32.920 --> 0:06:34.760 you to look out for things or not look out 0:06:34.760 --> 0:06:36.080 for things? Is or anything like that? 0:06:36.160 --> 0:06:39.600 So the job was you were always supposed to make 0:06:39.640 --> 0:06:41.440 sure you could see a top before they seen you, 0:06:41.600 --> 0:06:43.120 or to know where every camera was. 0:06:43.640 --> 0:06:47.480 All right, So why did you explain how he touched it? Uh? 0:06:48.040 --> 0:06:50.360 It really goes back to when I was a kid 0:06:50.360 --> 0:06:53.800 and he was still around in Pennsylvania a lot for 0:06:53.880 --> 0:06:55.840 every cop me or my brother would see, we'd get 0:06:55.839 --> 0:06:58.200 a dollar when we were a kid, all right, And 0:06:58.240 --> 0:07:00.279 that goes back to like eight years old, even before 0:07:00.279 --> 0:07:01.359 he started the theft. 0:07:02.240 --> 0:07:04.679 And how old is that life's weird? 0:07:05.400 --> 0:07:10.880 Can eleven? He would go around and start out with 0:07:10.960 --> 0:07:14.720 the we'd go down one street or something and if 0:07:14.760 --> 0:07:17.800 we missed one that he missed, then we'd lose four 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:19.920 wheeler for a week. Or if he pointed one out, 0:07:19.920 --> 0:07:21.800 the wee get and see we get four wheeler taken 0:07:21.840 --> 0:07:22.280 for a week. 0:07:26.760 --> 0:07:28.680 Here's Stephanie and Jeff. 0:07:29.520 --> 0:07:32.200 The fact that George Wagner took the stand in his 0:07:32.200 --> 0:07:34.040 own defense unexpectedly. 0:07:34.480 --> 0:07:35.360 Nobody in the. 0:07:35.320 --> 0:07:39.040 Courtroom was anticipating him to take the stand that day, 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:41.560 and I have to say he was very composed. He 0:07:41.640 --> 0:07:44.760 seemed very prepared. I mean, think about it. The stakes 0:07:44.800 --> 0:07:47.240 could not be higher for him. And when he describes 0:07:47.280 --> 0:07:50.520 his childhood, it's almost as though he was born into 0:07:50.880 --> 0:07:53.440 a family of con artists. You know, here he is 0:07:53.480 --> 0:07:56.360 being taught how to pick padlocks and steal fuel and 0:07:56.400 --> 0:08:00.880 steal coins from vending machines. These are crimes. Granted, they 0:08:00.880 --> 0:08:04.680 are petty crimes and nowhere equivalent to murder, but it 0:08:04.720 --> 0:08:06.800 does paint a picture of what was happening in his 0:08:06.840 --> 0:08:07.520 early days. 0:08:07.760 --> 0:08:11.000 It's possible that the defense was feeling the pressure and 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:14.240 decided it can't hurt to have George Wagner take the stand. 0:08:14.520 --> 0:08:16.760 And I think he did a pretty good job. He 0:08:16.800 --> 0:08:19.920 does not seem emotional to me. He seems more credible 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:23.480 than Jake and Angela Wagner. Now it might be different 0:08:23.520 --> 0:08:27.680 because Jake and Angela Wagner's stories line up, she said, 0:08:27.800 --> 0:08:31.320 versus he said. I mean, he's extremely prepared for this moment. 0:08:31.520 --> 0:08:33.679 You know, we might be surprised, but I imagine this 0:08:33.760 --> 0:08:35.960 is something he and his lawyers were working on for 0:08:36.040 --> 0:08:39.600 weeks and probably running through potential questions and potential answers. 0:08:40.160 --> 0:08:43.720 So for him, this is the culmination of probably a 0:08:43.760 --> 0:08:45.479 lot of practice. 0:08:45.640 --> 0:08:50.920 And remember accused killer Dad Billy Wagner, he's very anti government, 0:08:51.080 --> 0:08:54.840 anti law enforcement. We've heard many, many stories about him 0:08:54.880 --> 0:08:58.800 preparing for the end of days. So the other side 0:08:58.800 --> 0:09:01.480 of this is, you know, in a very rural area 0:09:01.880 --> 0:09:05.720 in the event of a disaster, Billy Wagner wanted to 0:09:05.760 --> 0:09:09.240 make sure that their kids were prepared and could survive 0:09:09.440 --> 0:09:13.240 in any situation. That's the nice way of framing it. 0:09:13.480 --> 0:09:15.720 But the truth was they were stealing, and they were 0:09:15.760 --> 0:09:19.160 stealing on a very high level at a very young age. 0:09:19.840 --> 0:09:22.839 If I'm the Rodent family, I'm thinking, I don't care. 0:09:23.280 --> 0:09:26.280 There's no excuse for allegedly murdering eight people. To me, 0:09:27.000 --> 0:09:28.920 you know, you got your ATV taken. 0:09:28.679 --> 0:09:29.360 Away as a kid. 0:09:29.400 --> 0:09:32.280 I don't know how that equates to being a part 0:09:32.320 --> 0:09:35.120 of an eight person homicide. But again, I mean this 0:09:35.160 --> 0:09:36.640 whole case. You know, we've heard a lot of things 0:09:36.640 --> 0:09:38.800 that we don't think are relevant, and what the jury 0:09:38.880 --> 0:09:40.760 is thinking and what the judge's thinking, we can't say. 0:09:41.520 --> 0:09:45.920 Yeah, I mean, it's interesting context because obviously George Wagner's 0:09:46.000 --> 0:09:49.320 attorneys are really painting a picture of a guy who 0:09:49.440 --> 0:09:53.160 was considered maybe second best to his brother. Much has 0:09:53.160 --> 0:09:56.480 been made about perhaps Jake was favored by his parents 0:09:56.520 --> 0:09:59.240 and that George was always the outcast and trying to 0:09:59.720 --> 0:10:03.640 step away from the family and maybe look away from 0:10:03.840 --> 0:10:08.080 their scams and cons and just try to get out 0:10:08.120 --> 0:10:11.160 to make a better life for himself. It matters, maybe 0:10:11.160 --> 0:10:15.240 because it offers some insight into how he just has 0:10:15.320 --> 0:10:19.000 always been used to ignoring them, and maybe that's how 0:10:19.040 --> 0:10:23.440 he was able to ignore the fact that his family 0:10:23.559 --> 0:10:26.560 was commiserating to murder eight people. Or is that just 0:10:26.800 --> 0:10:32.280 wildly far fetched now decades later? Does that excuse you 0:10:32.640 --> 0:10:35.959 of what you're being accused of? On the other hand, 0:10:36.120 --> 0:10:39.160 it also does paint a picture of how people are 0:10:39.200 --> 0:10:43.360 potentially indocrinated into really dangerous behavior. 0:10:46.000 --> 0:10:48.520 By the time George Wagner was a teenager. He said 0:10:48.520 --> 0:10:51.120 he was growing apart from his own family and that 0:10:51.200 --> 0:10:54.120 he was growing closer to his uncle Chris Nucom. The 0:10:54.160 --> 0:10:57.720 two regularly went hunting and rode ATVs around the farm. 0:10:58.559 --> 0:11:03.840 Let's talk about chrispher More. Explain your relationship with Chris. 0:11:04.240 --> 0:11:06.400 Chris is more like a brother to me than an uncle. 0:11:07.480 --> 0:11:09.880 That we were almost identical, and everything we like and do. 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:13.560 And what type of things would you do to you go. 0:11:13.720 --> 0:11:17.680 Mudd and hunting, fishing, Just see how far we could 0:11:17.720 --> 0:11:18.880 go on four wheeler in a day. 0:11:20.360 --> 0:11:22.079 And would Jake be part of. 0:11:22.040 --> 0:11:24.680 This in his own way? Sometimes? 0:11:24.720 --> 0:11:25.760 Yes? All right? 0:11:26.120 --> 0:11:27.200 He was always left behind? 0:11:27.800 --> 0:11:28.959 And what was he left hunt? 0:11:29.080 --> 0:11:31.440 He didn't want to get his four wheeler as dirt Michael, ever, 0:11:31.480 --> 0:11:33.400 he had dirty and he'd run like two mile an hour? 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:36.240 And how were you and kristin? 0:11:38.040 --> 0:11:39.120 Kind of like a bad out help. 0:11:39.800 --> 0:11:42.559 George Wagner said his brother Jake preferred to play video 0:11:42.640 --> 0:11:45.040 games and to play with action figures. 0:11:45.360 --> 0:11:48.160 He had hundreds of them. Every time he got as 0:11:48.200 --> 0:11:51.160 a young kid, he spent on action figures. He would 0:11:51.240 --> 0:11:53.360 set them up on the shelf and stare at them 0:11:53.400 --> 0:11:54.400 for hours. 0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:56.680 And did you play with him as well? 0:11:57.000 --> 0:11:59.719 No? But I would go in and move them when 0:11:59.720 --> 0:12:01.360 he was there, just to see if he'd knows it, 0:12:01.400 --> 0:12:03.480 and you could move with like a centimeter he'd know. 0:12:04.200 --> 0:12:05.720 And did that ever cause any products? 0:12:06.000 --> 0:12:07.160 Many many of fights? 0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:09.959 Would you do that just to kind of double your brother? 0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:11.440 Just to antagonizing this? 0:12:11.640 --> 0:12:15.760 Antagonize him? Did he have any particular video games he liked? 0:12:16.280 --> 0:12:22.080 Marvel Universe, Resident Evil left for Dad? That's another one. 0:12:22.080 --> 0:12:23.080 I can't remember what it was. 0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:26.160 What other type of things would you and Chris as. 0:12:26.000 --> 0:12:29.880 You got over right? Party run girls? 0:12:30.400 --> 0:12:33.840 Wagner testified he started drinking alcohol at age thirteen and 0:12:34.000 --> 0:12:37.640 was partying regularly around the time he was eighteen years old. 0:12:37.760 --> 0:12:41.160 George met Frankie Rodin the pair became quick friends. 0:12:41.760 --> 0:12:43.880 Did you consider it a good friend or I can 0:12:43.920 --> 0:12:45.400 said you one of my best friends? 0:12:45.880 --> 0:12:48.559 George said his life changed once he got his driver's license. 0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:51.360 He made new friends and was able to get away 0:12:51.400 --> 0:12:53.480 from his mother Angela and brother Jake. 0:12:56.200 --> 0:12:59.000 Because I have freedom. Freedom I could leave when I wanted, 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:02.959 hang out for my uncle or Frankie or John and 0:13:03.040 --> 0:13:06.480 Nathan Walls Garrett Leaf all right? 0:13:06.960 --> 0:13:09.120 And did that cause any problems? 0:13:09.160 --> 0:13:11.880 Back home on Bethel Hood, my mom was never happy 0:13:11.880 --> 0:13:12.360 about it. 0:13:12.600 --> 0:13:13.440 Tell us about that. 0:13:13.800 --> 0:13:15.840 She always said that I was leaving my brother to 0:13:15.880 --> 0:13:17.719 do all the work, and I needed to be more 0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:18.680 like him to stay home. 0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:21.720 Around the time George got his driver's license, his father, 0:13:21.800 --> 0:13:24.240 Billy Wagner, bought him a huge Chevy pickup truck for 0:13:24.240 --> 0:13:27.560 about twenty five hundred dollars. But even that purchase created 0:13:27.679 --> 0:13:31.600 lasting tension because Billy Wagner also bought more expensive pickup 0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:32.080 for Jake. 0:13:32.720 --> 0:13:35.400 He got his three or four months before mine. My 0:13:35.480 --> 0:13:38.120 mother made my father buy it for him, all right. 0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:40.120 Was it a cheap truck and expensive truck? 0:13:40.200 --> 0:13:42.719 It was sixteen thousand dollars, So he. 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:45.800 Got this sixteen thousand dollars truck before you got any truck? 0:13:45.920 --> 0:13:49.880 Yes? And how did that make you feel considering the 0:13:49.880 --> 0:13:53.280 one I wanted? Was I was told no for? And 0:13:53.320 --> 0:13:55.360 then a couple of weeks later they bought my brother's 0:13:55.360 --> 0:13:58.160 truck that was the same price. It not a good 0:13:58.200 --> 0:13:59.640 feeling for a fifteen year old. 0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:01.719 Did you express your feelings? 0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:04.840 I brought it up many times my entire life. 0:14:05.160 --> 0:14:06.320 A little bit bitter about that. 0:14:06.480 --> 0:14:12.000 Yes, Still there, with freedom and new friends, George Wagner 0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:14.600 spent most of his free time partying with Frankie roodin 0:14:14.920 --> 0:14:16.120 at nearby Big Bear Lake. 0:14:16.760 --> 0:14:20.560 Describe the drinking parties or whatever that you did. 0:14:20.960 --> 0:14:24.400 You played drinking games and drink until one of us 0:14:24.400 --> 0:14:25.520 fell out, which was usually me. 0:14:26.480 --> 0:14:28.280 Right, Did you enjoy that? 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:29.080 Yes? 0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:31.880 Did that cause any problems back at the home? 0:14:33.400 --> 0:14:35.360 Yeah? My mother didn't let me being down there. 0:14:35.600 --> 0:14:35.800 Why. 0:14:36.680 --> 0:14:41.080 She said it was a bad environment and a bad 0:14:41.160 --> 0:14:44.640 influences and I was basically going to end up sending 0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:45.680 myself to hell from it. 0:14:46.640 --> 0:14:48.760 And how would she tell you that or when would 0:14:48.800 --> 0:14:49.480 she tell you that? 0:14:49.840 --> 0:14:50.520 Almost daily? 0:14:53.800 --> 0:14:57.240 George testified that his mother, Angela, regularly berated him for 0:14:57.320 --> 0:15:00.880 his amoral lifestyle, also that she viewed Jake is an angel. 0:15:01.640 --> 0:15:03.960 When my mother had him paranoid that he was going 0:15:03.960 --> 0:15:05.800 to go to hell, and she kept beating into everybody's 0:15:05.840 --> 0:15:08.200 head if you do anything that you're making Jesus cry 0:15:08.200 --> 0:15:11.280 and you're going to end up going to hell. She 0:15:11.320 --> 0:15:13.560 would say that all the time. If you say one 0:15:13.600 --> 0:15:16.680 curse word, or if you do anything which she thought 0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:20.800 was that appropriate. What would she say that you're in, 0:15:21.040 --> 0:15:24.800 you know, going down entirely bad road, or you're making 0:15:24.880 --> 0:15:28.680 Jesus cry for this or that or depending on the situation. 0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:33.600 What was your reaction, I really didn't have one. I 0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:34.680 did what I wanted to do. 0:15:35.480 --> 0:15:36.240 What about Jake? 0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:38.280 Jake was always terrified of going to help. 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:41.360 How would you describe Jake as compared to you at 0:15:41.360 --> 0:15:41.880 this point? 0:15:42.960 --> 0:15:45.840 At this point, yeah, we are nothing alike. 0:15:47.160 --> 0:15:50.280 And how would you describe your relationship as you went 0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:51.240 through your teams. 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:53.200 I spend as much time away from Jake as I 0:15:53.240 --> 0:15:53.840 possibly could. 0:15:56.560 --> 0:15:58.680 We're going to take a break. We'll be back in 0:15:58.720 --> 0:16:09.960 a moment. George described his brother Jake as rude and 0:16:10.080 --> 0:16:10.840 lacking a filter. 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:13.720 He goes with somebody's house and he thinks he's dirty. 0:16:13.760 --> 0:16:15.480 He's gonna tell him your house is filthy. If he 0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:17.360 thinks you stink, he'll tell you go take a shower. 0:16:17.560 --> 0:16:19.360 He has no filter. 0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:21.720 Did that cause a problem. 0:16:21.800 --> 0:16:23.760 Yes. He insults people, and a lot of my friends 0:16:23.760 --> 0:16:26.520 and stuff didn't like him being around. Did that cause 0:16:26.560 --> 0:16:28.520 you yes, because then they didn't want to hang out 0:16:28.560 --> 0:16:33.040 with me. My brother thinks that he's a satan, can 0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:36.320 do no wrong, and he's better than everybody. And he 0:16:36.360 --> 0:16:38.440 thinks that him being honest with people is what people 0:16:38.480 --> 0:16:44.120 wants to hear about his opinion of their self, and did. 0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:46.240 That cause a problem with your relationship with your mom? 0:16:46.760 --> 0:16:48.880 Yes, my mother thinks that I should be like him. 0:16:49.120 --> 0:16:51.720 She's always said that, what do you mean. She thinks 0:16:51.720 --> 0:16:54.400 that he's a satan, does no wrong, and she thinks 0:16:54.440 --> 0:16:56.720 that I'm basically going to help. 0:16:58.480 --> 0:17:02.640 Here's investigative journalists and lawn crime reporter Anjeanette Levy. 0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:07.160 He made it sound like, you know, angela favorite Jake. 0:17:07.800 --> 0:17:10.200 He always got in trouble for what Jake did. Jake 0:17:10.240 --> 0:17:12.960 would blame him for things when they were kids. But 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:16.639 I mean, he said, straight up, we don't get along. 0:17:16.920 --> 0:17:19.359 We'd fight all the time, and sometimes we get along, 0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:21.680 and then most of the times we didn't. I can't 0:17:21.680 --> 0:17:24.440 imagine existing like that. He said there were times he 0:17:24.480 --> 0:17:27.320 wanted to leave, and I wondered if that was really true, 0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:29.639 and maybe he did want to leave, but he didn't 0:17:29.680 --> 0:17:30.080 do it. 0:17:30.960 --> 0:17:33.600 Later, George told the jury that his younger brother Jake, 0:17:33.720 --> 0:17:37.040 was also regular at Big Bear Lake, but instead of partying, 0:17:37.080 --> 0:17:39.760 Jake would hang out with his new thirteen year old girlfriend, 0:17:40.119 --> 0:17:41.000 Hannah Mee Rodin. 0:17:41.800 --> 0:17:44.080 He would sit in the tan or around the campfire, 0:17:44.119 --> 0:17:47.040 back and ark where he was with Hannah all night. 0:17:47.640 --> 0:17:49.040 He wouldn't join in with the Drew. 0:17:49.320 --> 0:17:50.800 No, he wouldn't let Hannah either. 0:17:51.320 --> 0:17:53.040 Did Anna try to join sometimes? 0:17:53.200 --> 0:17:58.320 Yes, Jake wouldn't let her go. What he getting more 0:17:58.320 --> 0:18:00.879 in Hannah having bad influences dranking her party. 0:18:01.280 --> 0:18:03.879 At this point in George's testimony, Having set up the 0:18:03.960 --> 0:18:07.320 tensions between George and his mother and brother, defense attorney 0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:09.919 John Parker pivoted back to the Wagner's life on Bethel 0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:13.320 Hill and began to unpack the Wagner's history of criminal activity. 0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:17.760 The first house was a single white trailer. When six 0:18:17.880 --> 0:18:22.200 years old, my mother tried to burn the house down. 0:18:22.240 --> 0:18:24.360 That failed because she didn't know what she was doing 0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:28.800 in the beginning, all right, explain the if there was 0:18:28.880 --> 0:18:33.080 no heir, it's mother's out. And she had everything closed 0:18:33.119 --> 0:18:35.720 up in the beginning, so just a kitchen, living room. 0:18:35.600 --> 0:18:38.520 Mary barn all right, and your mother set that on fire. 0:18:38.920 --> 0:18:40.560 She had my father set it on fire. But it 0:18:40.640 --> 0:18:42.840 was her plan, and she's the one taught my father 0:18:42.880 --> 0:18:44.119 how to do it right. 0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:46.560 And you remember this when you were six or seven 0:18:46.640 --> 0:18:49.480 years old? And what did you think about that when 0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:50.399 you were a kid. 0:18:51.520 --> 0:18:54.760 Really had no improt on it, George said, after his 0:18:54.880 --> 0:18:58.040 parents remodeled their first trailer. They added a second one, 0:18:58.600 --> 0:19:01.480 but once again, his parents set fire to their newly 0:19:01.520 --> 0:19:02.359 remodeled home. 0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:06.800 In two thousand. You were about nine years old roughly, 0:19:07.240 --> 0:19:08.800 all right? And what do you mean they. 0:19:08.760 --> 0:19:12.160 Burned hy burned that one down and succeeded with that one. 0:19:12.480 --> 0:19:13.119 Who's dead? 0:19:13.280 --> 0:19:14.240 My father and my mother? 0:19:14.640 --> 0:19:15.840 And how did they burned? 0:19:16.640 --> 0:19:19.680 Same MESSI there's always a whole batch of newspapers stuck 0:19:19.720 --> 0:19:20.720 underneath the fusebox. 0:19:20.880 --> 0:19:23.520 So at this point in time, when you're nine years old, 0:19:23.600 --> 0:19:26.040 approximately your first two homes have been burned by your 0:19:26.080 --> 0:19:26.600 mom and dad. 0:19:26.760 --> 0:19:32.040 Yes, later, the Wagoners built a more permanent home on 0:19:32.080 --> 0:19:36.040 their property. It was nicknamed the quote Kentucky Wonder Mansion, 0:19:36.280 --> 0:19:38.560 and George said he was fond of this house because 0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:40.320 he had his own area that allowed him to leave 0:19:40.359 --> 0:19:43.879 whenever he wanted. George said he often did this to 0:19:43.960 --> 0:19:46.800