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Speaker 1: What the are you wearing? Okay, this is a little scary,

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Speaker 1: isn't it obvious? I can't tell you that. What are

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Speaker 1: you an elf?

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Speaker 2: I'm an elf?

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Speaker 1: Yes, you are wearing an health outfit? Why are you

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Speaker 1: wearing an elf? Costa?

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Speaker 2: Because, Jason, I have a very special holiday foyer story

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Speaker 2: for you today, and I think you're gonna like it.

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Speaker 2: Are you ready?

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Speaker 1: Oh my god? I'm ready.

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Speaker 2: Can I do the thing this time?

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Speaker 1: Do it? Brather, jingle them bells. I'm investigative journalist Jason Leopold.

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Speaker 1: I spend most of my days getting documents from the government.

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Speaker 2: I'm attorney Matt Tabbit, and I fight them in court

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Speaker 2: to open their files when they don't want to.

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Speaker 1: From Bloomberg and no smiling, This is Disclosure, a podcast

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Speaker 1: about buying loose government secrets, the Freedom of Information Act,

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Speaker 1: and the unexpected places that takes us.

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Speaker 2: So I have a special story for you, Jason. I'm

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Speaker 2: going to take you back to twenty twenty three.

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Speaker 1: It up all right, So.

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Speaker 2: Picture this Chicago, Matt's office, December eighth, twenty twenty three.

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Speaker 2: Our law firm. We have a pretty big holiday party

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Speaker 2: every year. A bunch of other lawyers come clients come

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Speaker 2: and it's like an hour or so before our big

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Speaker 2: annual holiday party is going to start. You know, I'm

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Speaker 2: sitting around, I'm having a pregame whiskey. I'm listening to

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Speaker 2: some Nat King Cole, a little bit of Santa Claus

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Speaker 2: is coming to town. Just getting in the mood for

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Speaker 2: holiday time, and I think to myself, I should make

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Speaker 2: some kind of a holiday boyer requests. So this is

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Speaker 2: what I saw on I decided to make a foyer

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Speaker 2: request to our very good friends at the Federal Bureau

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Speaker 2: of Investigation. And here is my request. Greetings, I request

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Speaker 2: the first twenty five pages you locate from a CRS

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Speaker 2: main file in cross reference, search for the term quote

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Speaker 2: Santa Claus end quote.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, amazing.

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Speaker 2: You like that?

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Speaker 1: Amazing? So what's the CRS, Jason, Well, the CRS is

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Speaker 1: the Central Record System, the database that holds one hundred

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Speaker 1: million FBI files, investigative file.

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Speaker 2: So investigative, right, It's not like communications with Congress or

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Speaker 2: you know, kind of internal policy things. For the most part,

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Speaker 2: like this is this is investigative records. This is the

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Speaker 2: bread and butter. You know, FBI is investigating and they

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Speaker 2: need a system and they keep it all in the CRS. Right,

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Speaker 2: So tell us about main file and cross reference searches.

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Speaker 1: What does that mean? A main file is the file

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Speaker 1: on the subject. The subject would be Santa Claus, and

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Speaker 1: a cross reference search would be where there are references

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Speaker 1: to that subject in other investigative files that the FBI maintains.

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Speaker 1: It's sort of like if the FBI were investigating Satan,

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Speaker 1: and you know, Satan and Santa had some interactions and

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Speaker 1: Santa ends up in Satan's file? Is that right?

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Speaker 2: Are you breaking news here about a previously unknown relationship

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Speaker 2: between Santa Claus and Citan.

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Speaker 1: I mean their names are anagrams, all right, So back

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Speaker 1: to the story.

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Speaker 2: What I'm doing here is I'm saying, go to your

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Speaker 2: fancy record keeping system and search that I want to

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Speaker 2: see if you have any main files that hit on

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Speaker 2: the search term Santa Claus and then a cross reference

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Speaker 2: files that hit on the term Santa Claus. And I'm thinking,

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Speaker 2: you know, probably there's not going to be a main file,

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Speaker 2: unless maybe Santa Claus is some alias for somebody, but

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Speaker 2: there could be cross references. And what I'm thinking, as

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Speaker 2: one example, might be if there were bank robberies and

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Speaker 2: people were dressed up as Santa Claus. They might want

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Speaker 2: to at some point be liketay, I need a list.

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Speaker 2: I need a list of every bank robbery in which

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Speaker 2: someone was dressed up with Santa Claus in that's what

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Speaker 2: the cross reference searches in the cross referencing system would

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Speaker 2: allow you to do. So I make my request, and

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Speaker 2: I finished my whiskey, and I enjoy my colleagues and

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Speaker 2: clients and friends at our holiday party, and I and

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Speaker 2: I wait, I wait a little bit, and I don't

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Speaker 2: have to wait that long because on December thirteenth, twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty three, five days after I make my request, I

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Speaker 2: get a response from the FBI. And that's pretty fast, right,

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Speaker 2: that is really fast. Would you care to venture a

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Speaker 2: guess as to what the response was?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so this is twenty twenty three. I was going

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Speaker 1: to say, if you filed this request in say twenty

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Speaker 1: fifteen or sixteen, I would have said that the FBI's

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Speaker 1: response to you would have been they were unable to

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Speaker 1: locate any responsive records. But since you filed it in

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Speaker 1: tw twenty three, I'm going to say that the FBI glomar.

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Speaker 2: Do you glomar? So that that would be Hey, wait

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Speaker 2: a second. Now, we can't tell you if we're investigating

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Speaker 2: Santa or not because we can't tip Santa off that

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Speaker 2: we're onto them exactly right, that would be the glomar

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Speaker 2: or or it would be Hey, Now, Santa Claus has

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Speaker 2: got privacy rights, and we're not going to invade those

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Speaker 2: privacy rights by telling you whether we investigated Santa Claus

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Speaker 2: or not. That's my guess. That's a good guess. That

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Speaker 2: is not actually what their response is. Oh what, here's

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Speaker 2: a response Jason December thirteenth, twenty twenty three, Request number

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Speaker 2: one six one two nine four five dash triple zero,

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Speaker 2: subject Santa Claus. Dear mister topic. This is in response

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Speaker 2: to your Freedom of Information Privacy Acts FOIPA requests to

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Speaker 2: the FBI. Below you find information relevant to your request.

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Speaker 2: Please read each item carefully. Your request did not contain

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Speaker 2: enough identifying information for this off is to make a

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Speaker 2: determination regarding the responsiveness of records in our central record system.

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Speaker 2: We're not even getting a really good party.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god.

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Speaker 2: Therefore, your request is being administratively closed. Please provide any

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Speaker 2: additional information that would help locate the records with a

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Speaker 2: reasonable amount of effort. This might include the subject's complete name,

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Speaker 2: date of birth, prior addresses former employment in God, this

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Speaker 2: is so good, or any incidents for which you believe

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Speaker 2: the FBI may have investigated the subject. This office will

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Speaker 2: conduct a new search upon receipt of the additional information.

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Speaker 1: That's news right there by the way. The fact that

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Speaker 1: the FBI I would have turned that immediately into a

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Speaker 1: story the FBI does not know who Santa Claus is.

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Speaker 1: That would be the headline. If they do not know

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Speaker 1: who Santa Claus is.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And I kind of wonder if maybe this

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Speaker 2: was like, oh, wait a second, the existence of Santa

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Speaker 2: Claus or not is a subject that the FBI should

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Speaker 2: not be taking a position on.

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Speaker 1: It also seems to be like, is the FBI messing

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Speaker 1: with you? Are they like, oh, okay, this is a

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Speaker 1: good request. Now we want you to tell us what

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Speaker 1: Santa Claus's real name is. They want you to say

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Speaker 1: he lives at the North Pole. They want you to

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Speaker 1: say his name's Chris Kringle. So I'm wonder born on

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Speaker 1: December twenty fifth, right, is that right? I'm assuming I

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Speaker 1: don't know.

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Speaker 2: That's allegedly the birth date of Jesus, in which all right, right,

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Speaker 2: my bad. I did wonder if they were like taking

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Speaker 2: de bait a little bit, or the opposite would be

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Speaker 2: like no human even really like read it. It was

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Speaker 2: just all like automated, and no one actually thought for

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Speaker 2: a second, are we seriously going to say this about

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Speaker 2: Santa Claus. So what do you think, Jason, Am I

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Speaker 2: gonna be like, oh, oh too bad?

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Speaker 1: Nothing?

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Speaker 2: There is that what I do? Uh?

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Speaker 1: No, I assume you immediately appealed.

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Speaker 2: Well, so they didn't deny it. They administratively closed it,

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Speaker 2: which and they did not include language requiring me to appeal,

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Speaker 2: so I did not appeal. Instead, I sent an email

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Speaker 2: to the good folks at FOIPA questions at FBI dot

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Speaker 2: gov and to the OGIS and to OJIS.

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Speaker 1: The office of the Office of Government Information Services, that

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Speaker 1: is sort of like the mediator. They mediate requests or

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Speaker 1: try to get you some relief if an agency is

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Speaker 1: not being responsive or turning over records, and maybe you

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Speaker 1: don't want to go to litigation, but you want them

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Speaker 1: to kind of step in exactly.

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Speaker 2: They can kind of help to broker resolution and help

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Speaker 2: clear up confusion. And I think especially with requesters who

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Speaker 2: who don't who are new to it. They can be

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Speaker 2: really helpful to help them understand how Stone works. So

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Speaker 2: I send a two and a half page email addressing

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Speaker 2: the things that the FBI tells me they need to

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Speaker 2: know in order to process my request. All right, are

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Speaker 2: you ready, Jason?

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Speaker 1: I'm ready.

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Speaker 2: Here we go. All right, dear FBI and ogis. I

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Speaker 2: submitted the above reference to feuer request. The request sought

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Speaker 2: the first twenty five pages resulting from CRS main file

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Speaker 2: and cross reference searches for the term quote Santa Claus.

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Speaker 2: FBI denied my request, stating that it quote did not

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Speaker 2: contain enough identifying information for this office to make a

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Speaker 2: determination regarding the responsiveness of records in our Central Record

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Speaker 2: System end quote, and administratively closed the request. FBI also

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Speaker 2: suggested that I provide the quote subject's complete name, date

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Speaker 2: of birth, prior addresses former employment information or any incidents

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Speaker 2: for which you believe the FBI may have investigated the subject.

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Speaker 1: End quote.

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Speaker 2: I write asking that FBI reconsidered.

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Speaker 1: By the way, that is too nice.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, Jason, this is the holiday, my friend,

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Speaker 2: So I was I.

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Speaker 1: Think the health suit is making you soft? Were you

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Speaker 1: wearing the helf suit while you file.

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Speaker 2: This I was not wearing the elf suit.

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Speaker 1: Okay, okay, fair, okay, I was not wearing the elf suit.

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Speaker 2: So first though, I gotta kind of clear some things

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Speaker 2: up because you might have picked up on this. But

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Speaker 2: in addition to it being like, do you really need

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Speaker 2: me to tell you who Santa Claus is, they're really

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Speaker 2: not properly interpreting my request. And it is exactly what

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Speaker 2: they do to people all the time. So while this

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Speaker 2: is meant to be funny, this also illustrates the absurdity

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Speaker 2: of how the FBI sometimes handles things. They don't really

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Speaker 2: read their request and understand it. They just have this

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Speaker 2: robotic way that they go about it. I must search

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Speaker 2: the CRS, and I must see if this is here right.

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Speaker 2: They're not really thinking about it. So first I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: explain to them here why they're not interpreting my request.

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Speaker 2: Records are response to my request if they result from

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Speaker 2: the search that I specified. There is no separate responsiveness review.

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Speaker 2: It does not matter what the record is or what

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Speaker 2: or who it is about, and it is not necessary

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Speaker 2: that Santa Claus be the subject of an FBI investigation

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Speaker 2: for a record to be responsive to my request. If

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Speaker 2: a record results from the search I specified.

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Speaker 1: It is responsive.

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Speaker 2: This should be the easiest way to make a request.

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Speaker 2: Just give them the search terms, they run the search,

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Speaker 2: and you get the results instead of like, I want

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Speaker 2: records about this person. Right, it's This should have been

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Speaker 2: very clean and simple, so I should not have even

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Speaker 2: needed to explain to them who Santa Claus is. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: so I go on, Well, the additional information FBI requested

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Speaker 2: is not necessary because it is misunderstood the scope of

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Speaker 2: the request to be records in which the FBI investigated

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Speaker 2: Santa Claus. I'm happy to provide some additional information. Now,

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Speaker 2: are you ready to go?

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Speaker 1: Buddy?

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Speaker 2: Oh man, I actually learned some things about Santa Claus

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Speaker 2: that I hadn't really previously known. Santa Claus is completely

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Speaker 2: miss Santa Claus, but he's also been known as far

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Speaker 2: Father Christmas, Saint Nicholas, Saint Nicky, Chris Springle, or Santa

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Speaker 2: Love it to provide some additional context about who Santa

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Speaker 2: Claus is. According to legend, every Christmas Eve, I can't

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Speaker 2: do this. At eleven every Christmas Eve, Santa delivers presence

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Speaker 2: to children around the world, but only if they have

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Speaker 2: been good. Santa Claus is said to have origins in

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Speaker 2: Saint Nicholas of Mirra, who was born March fifteenth to it,

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Speaker 2: who was born March fifteenth to seventy a d. And

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Speaker 2: Father Christmas, who originated in sixteenth century England. But Santa

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Speaker 2: Claus as we understand him in America is generally considered

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Speaker 2: to have originated with the publication of the book in

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Speaker 2: New Year's Present to the Little Ones from five to

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Speaker 2: twelve in eighteen twenty one, and the poem A Visit

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Speaker 2: from Saint Nicholas now known as The Night Before Christmas

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Speaker 2: in eighteen twenty three.

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Speaker 1: I love it, all.

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Speaker 2: Right, So they've asked me, like, hey, who's this Santa

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Speaker 2: Claus guy you're you're talking about? When was he born?

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Speaker 2: There you go, I mean born. We don't really know.

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Speaker 2: He's magical, but like, these are the origins of where

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Speaker 2: Santa Claus behan fa.

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Speaker 1: The Christmas give us some money. Oh it's good.

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Speaker 2: The Kinks and you know what, now you mentioned that

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Speaker 2: you could see that perhaps the FBI found that song

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Speaker 2: to be subversive and began an investigation into the Kings. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: Cross referenced Santa Claus. Not so crazy, right, this could happen,

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Speaker 2: all right, continuing, to the best of my knowledge, Santa

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Speaker 2: Claus has always resided at the North Pole, although it

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Speaker 2: has been said that he spends time in tropical locations

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Speaker 2: immediately after Christmas.

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Speaker 1: I just love. I love to the best of my knowledge, Like, like, hey,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm saying this under penalty of perjury. Right

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Speaker 1: to the best of my knowledge, that's where he resort.

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Speaker 2: We don't really know. There's a lot of mystery around

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Speaker 2: Santa Claus. I'm attempting to clear it up to these

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Speaker 2: people at the FBI who apparently have never heard of

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Speaker 2: Santa Claus. I'm trying to get them enough to understand

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Speaker 2: who Santa Claus is, even though again they didn't really

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Speaker 2: All they needed to do is like type it into

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Speaker 2: the search box and give me the results. Continuing on

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00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:15,320
Speaker 2: the subject of Santa's employment, Santa's employment has always been

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Speaker 2: judging the perceived goodness or badness of children, manufacturing toys

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Speaker 2: and other presents, and delivering the appropriate presence or coal

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Speaker 2: for those judge to be bad, and more generally to

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Speaker 2: the spreading of good cheer at Christmas. Santa also frequently

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Speaker 2: appears in advertisements and in popular films and TV shows.

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Speaker 2: A more cynical person, one we may commonly refer to

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Speaker 2: as a quote Scrooge or quote Grinch may say that

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Speaker 2: Santa's job has been to promote materialism, that Santa is

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Speaker 2: a tool to make poor children feel bad about themselves

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Speaker 2: as a result of the lesser volume of Christmas presents

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Speaker 2: or even no presence.

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Speaker 1: They often receive, Wow, you take this to another level,

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Speaker 1: Oh dude, Like if I'm in it, I'm in it.

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Speaker 2: You want me to tell you who Santa Claus is.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to tell you who Santa Claus is.

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Speaker 1: Oh man, this is a paper on Santa Claus. I

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Speaker 1: love it.

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Speaker 2: We're not even halfway through the letter yet, just so

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Speaker 2: you have a frame of reference, right, all right, So

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Speaker 2: I'm talking about Santa's jobs, and a cynical person may

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Speaker 2: say that he's a tool to make poor children feel

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Speaker 2: bad about themselves as a result of the lesser volume

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Speaker 2: of Christmas presents or even no presents they often see

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Speaker 2: ce eg Ruby SU's character in the film Christmas Vacation,

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Speaker 2: or that Santa Claus normalizes Christianity in America and others

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Speaker 2: people who do not celebrate Christmas, and that Santa Claus

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Speaker 2: teaches children to accept the modern surveillance state God.

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Speaker 1: That's good.

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Speaker 2: Still, other people believe that Santa Claus is taken away

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Speaker 2: from the quote true meaning of Christmas, which they could

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Speaker 2: tend to be a celebration of the birth of Jesus

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Speaker 2: Christ parentheses for your reference. Jesus Christ is a central

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Speaker 2: figure in Christianity, believed by Christians to be the son

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Speaker 2: of God who was born zero eight in Bethlehem.

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Speaker 1: To say, the world, I will be making a request

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Speaker 1: on Jesus Christ on December twenty fifth, please start processing that.

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Speaker 2: I mean, if they did know who Santa Claus, it

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Speaker 2: was fair for me to wonder if maybe they didn't

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Speaker 2: never heard of Jesus and so I'm going to go

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Speaker 2: in and just affirmatively address that now. Okay, Depending on

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Speaker 2: one's perspective, any of these might be considered Santa Claus's

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Speaker 2: quote unployment. FBI's letter also asked that identify incidents for

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Speaker 2: which I believe Santa Claus may have been investigated by

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00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:30,640
Speaker 2: the FBI to my knowledge, despite what may be unauthorized

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00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:34,920
Speaker 2: violations of US airspace, violations of eavesdropping and privacy laws

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00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:38,720
Speaker 2: involving minor children, and the opportunity to use his annual

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Speaker 2: delivery run to just appreciate, give me a second, Oh

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00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:51,560
Speaker 2: my god, and the opportunity to use his annual delivery

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00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:55,840
Speaker 2: run to distribute narcotics manufactured byselves. The FBI has never

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00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:58,920
Speaker 2: investigated Santa c Did you say that that's what that's

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00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:03,680
Speaker 2: in your letter? That's what I said. Yes, I'm reading

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Speaker 2: you the letter.

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Speaker 1: That is amazing.

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Speaker 2: If I'm the FBI, I could think, hey, Santa Claus

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Speaker 2: could be a great comic for like narcotics distribution. All right,

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00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:14,880
Speaker 2: we're coming to the end here. I hope this additional

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00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:17,879
Speaker 2: information is useful. But to reiterate again, my request simply

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Speaker 2: seeks whatever records result from typing Santa Claus into whatever

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00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:24,159
Speaker 2: search tool in the CRS the FBI uses to conduct

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00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:27,360
Speaker 2: main file and cross reference searches. While there's been much

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Speaker 2: debate about whether Santa Claus is real, please note that,

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Speaker 2: because of the manner in which my request was phrased,

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Speaker 2: responding to the request does not require the FBI to

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Speaker 2: reach any conclusion or take any position on this controversial subject.

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Speaker 2: I asked that you reconsider your decision to administratively close

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Speaker 2: this request and run the searches. I requested happy holidays,

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Speaker 2: Matt topic.

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00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:51,919
Speaker 1: Wow, you didn't say Merry Christmas. You said happy Holidays.

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Speaker 2: Well, I don't know what holidays they celebrate or not fair.

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Speaker 2: I'm a happy holidays person, you know.

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Speaker 1: I know I'm a happy holidays person.

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Speaker 2: To let the hate mail go ahead and start flowing

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Speaker 2: on in here. But like, I think, some people celebrate Christmas,

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00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:09,040
Speaker 2: some people celebrate other holidays, some people don't celebrate anything.

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Speaker 2: So I think I prefer happy holities.

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Speaker 1: This is well. First of all, the letter I mean

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Speaker 1: needs to be framed. You gotta frame the FBI's response

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Speaker 1: to your request and then your letter next to it,

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Speaker 1: because it is not presented in any sarcastic way. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it is serious. They're like, okay, you need more info.

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Speaker 1: You got it, you asked, I answered, all right? Did

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Speaker 1: they respond?

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Speaker 2: So see what I'm doing here is instead of getting

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Speaker 2: to them, right, I'm just like, I'm gonna kill them

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Speaker 2: with kindness. Yeah, this is so to speak.

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Speaker 1: Did they respond? Okay?

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Speaker 2: December twenty second, twenty twenty three.

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Speaker 1: Oh, We'll getting up to the liar.

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Speaker 2: It's a Christmas miracle. It is a Christmas miracle because

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Speaker 2: they agree to reconsider. Oh my, I get a letter

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00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:04,000
Speaker 2: from them. It says, we're reopening your requests in light

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00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:06,760
Speaker 2: of the additional information that you have provide.

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Speaker 1: But there's only three days so Christmas.

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Speaker 2: I know, and I didn't get anything. I just got

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00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:15,480
Speaker 2: their commitment that they were going to reopen it, and

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00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:18,320
Speaker 2: they would see so apparently now that they've been properly

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Speaker 2: educated on who Santa Claus is.

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Speaker 1: Oh you men, Santa Claus, Like like really a Santa Claus.

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Speaker 1: Oh okay, wait, this is like, let's let's just stop

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00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:30,920
Speaker 1: for a second here. This is a big deal, right.

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00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:38,280
Speaker 1: Just getting the FBI to reconsider and saying, okay, we're

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Speaker 1: gonna reopen your request, we'll process it is a big

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00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:46,760
Speaker 1: deal because they don't often do that unless a requester

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Speaker 1: actually provides them with that kind of info that you

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00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:54,000
Speaker 1: that you sent them, right, And the reality is most

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00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:56,880
Speaker 1: requesters will just kind of throw their hands up at it, right,

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Speaker 1: It's like too much work, not gonna do it. Yep.

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00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:03,200
Speaker 1: This is why it's important when you're following a request

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00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:06,760
Speaker 1: to just really follow it through to the end. Oh yeah,

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00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:11,119
Speaker 1: even if the response is as ridiculous as please provide

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00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:14,199
Speaker 1: us with Santa's date of birth and previous places of

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Speaker 1: employment and.

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Speaker 2: Why we might have been investigating him. Right, So December

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Speaker 2: twenty second, just a few days before Christmas, they tell

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Speaker 2: me they're gonna reconsider. So late January twenty twenty four,

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Speaker 2: I get a CD in the main and usually I

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Speaker 2: just get we get your CDs and then we load them.

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Speaker 1: Up and give them to you.

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00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:38,120
Speaker 2: But like this one's to me, right, Like it's addressed

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00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:41,720
Speaker 2: to me, Matthew Vincent Topic and Foyer requests number subjects

380
00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:44,400
Speaker 2: Santa Claus. And I get a letter and I get

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Speaker 2: a CD. All right, now I'm gonna read you from

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00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:51,040
Speaker 2: the letter. Okay, dear Matthew Topic, The FBI has completed

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00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:54,680
Speaker 2: its search for records subject to the Freedom of Information

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00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:57,800
Speaker 2: Act that are responsive to your request. The enclosed twenty

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00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:00,399
Speaker 2: five pages of records were determined to be respect to

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00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:04,560
Speaker 2: your subject and were previously processed and released.

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00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:10,640
Speaker 1: Well whoa, whoa, uh huh previously processed. Uh huh. All right,

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00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:15,800
Speaker 1: I'm like I definitely feel my blood pot sure, yeah,

389
00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:17,920
Speaker 1: starting to increase on this one there.

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00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:18,840
Speaker 2: Now they're taunting me.

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00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:23,040
Speaker 1: Now, yeah, this is they're with you. First of all,

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00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:26,920
Speaker 1: they had previously processed records for Santa Claus. And they

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00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:30,520
Speaker 1: respond to you with we need more info when they

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00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:34,760
Speaker 1: actually previously processed records and they didn't even conduct a

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00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:38,000
Speaker 1: new search, right, That's not what I asked for.

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00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:41,800
Speaker 2: And I don't think there was a prior Santa Claus request.

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00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:44,159
Speaker 2: I think they just went to the database of records

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00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:47,480
Speaker 2: they previously released. They searched for Santa Claus, right, and

399
00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:48,240
Speaker 2: they gave me the hit.

400
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:49,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, so they.

401
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:51,600
Speaker 2: Did the right search in the wrong place. I didn't

402
00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:55,000
Speaker 2: want preprocessed stuff. I wanted to see what did they

403
00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:59,320
Speaker 2: tag in the CRS on the search term Santa Claus.

404
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:03,040
Speaker 1: This is exact, Athlete, what the FBI did to Attorney

405
00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:06,320
Speaker 1: General Pam Bondi when she requested ESDN five.

406
00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:08,160
Speaker 2: That's exactly what happened.

407
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:12,280
Speaker 1: This is exactly what the FBI did. They gave her

408
00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:13,920
Speaker 1: preprocessed records.

409
00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:15,760
Speaker 2: I wonder I should tell her about this.

410
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:18,439
Speaker 1: She might be like, yeah, she might be sympathetic, but

411
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:19,920
Speaker 1: that's what the FBI does.

412
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,399
Speaker 2: There should really be an inspector general investigation into how

413
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:24,440
Speaker 2: they handled this request.

414
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:25,119
Speaker 1: In my opinion.

415
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:27,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, So the letter goes on, in an effort to

416
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,639
Speaker 2: provide you with responsive records as expeditiously as possible, we

417
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:34,480
Speaker 2: are releasing documents from previous requests regarding your subject. We

418
00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:38,359
Speaker 2: consider your requests fulfilled. And then they're saying, if I

419
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,560
Speaker 2: want something else, then I have to make a new request,

420
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:44,880
Speaker 2: which is just the classic. They're just they're going through

421
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:48,320
Speaker 2: the whole playbook man of like of how to be difficult,

422
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:50,560
Speaker 2: and then it's like you fight them on the first

423
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:52,600
Speaker 2: one and then now it's now it's the next one.

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00:22:53,200 --> 00:23:06,160
Speaker 2: But I did get some documents.

425
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:02,240
Speaker 1: Of all, what are these previously processed records?

426
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:07,359
Speaker 2: So I get these preprocessed documents and a lot of

427
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:11,200
Speaker 2: them have they have stamps on them that indicate certain

428
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:15,760
Speaker 2: lawsuits that they were released like during those lawsuits you

429
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:17,639
Speaker 2: probably never said on your documents that will have like

430
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:20,399
Speaker 2: the you know, twenty three CV. Twelve twenty two or

431
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:21,560
Speaker 2: whatever it is the case number.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:29,080
Speaker 2: Okay, So first item Chicago Sun Times Editorials, Thursday, December

434
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:32,359
Speaker 2: twenty fifth, nineteen seventy five.

435
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:34,960
Speaker 1: Not oh man, wow.

436
00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:36,240
Speaker 2: So this is a news clipping.

437
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 1: Okay, they do love their news clippings.

438
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:42,159
Speaker 2: The headline is there's hope for Santa Claus, and then

439
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,640
Speaker 2: it explains we've gotten letters from children asking the old

440
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:48,320
Speaker 2: question is there a Santa Claus. It's tempting to give

441
00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 2: the old answer, but we've been uneasy about that. Maybe

442
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:55,040
Speaker 2: it's a little too unsophisticated. Anyway, they're sort of talking

443
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,920
Speaker 2: about how to respond to the question of whether there's

444
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:01,440
Speaker 2: Santa Claus in a Sun Times editorial, and they've only

445
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:03,480
Speaker 2: given us the first page, so I don't know what

446
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:06,240
Speaker 2: the rest of it says. But here is the super

447
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:09,720
Speaker 2: interesting part of that. There's a note, a handwritten little

448
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:13,119
Speaker 2: note that somebody puts in there. Okay, next to the

449
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:17,439
Speaker 2: headline there's hope for Santa Claus, it says, correct, but

450
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:21,359
Speaker 2: not for the Republican Party. Oh my god. Wow?

451
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 1: Wait, well wait what so this is obviously during Nixon's

452
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:29,879
Speaker 1: tenure in office.

453
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 2: Nineteen seventy five, No, this would have been I think

454
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:38,200
Speaker 2: Ford is wrapping up, right, So Nixon resigns in seventy four,

455
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:41,760
Speaker 2: so Ford is in office, and you know, at this

456
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 2: point and somebody believes that, well there may be hope

457
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:48,880
Speaker 2: for Santa Claus, there's no hope for the republic all yeah. Five.

458
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:51,919
Speaker 1: We wait they added this to a file.

459
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, we don't know where this document originated. We

460
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:58,320
Speaker 2: know that for some reason it was produced in this

461
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 2: other lawsuit. Yeah, as it turns out I went and

462
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,840
Speaker 2: looked up the case number that stamped on it. It's

463
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 2: one of my cases.

464
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:10,400
Speaker 1: Get out of here. Yeah yeah wait wait wait yeah,

465
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 1: so this was already released to you or your FIAT.

466
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 2: Well this, yeah, this had already been released to the

467
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:20,960
Speaker 2: in This is page three and fourteen of a production

468
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:22,200
Speaker 2: to a different client.

469
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, voluminous records. They are Church Committee. I mean

470
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,639
Speaker 1: in seventy five. The Church Committee did issue their report

471
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:29,640
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy five.

472
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 2: I think that's what it is. We did a case

473
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,880
Speaker 2: for Church Committee records, and I think that clipping for

474
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:37,359
Speaker 2: some reason must have been in there.

475
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:41,360
Speaker 1: And one of the revelations of the committee include Operation

476
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 1: mk Ultra, which involved the drugging of US citizens as

477
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:47,119
Speaker 1: part of mind control human experiments.

478
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:50,159
Speaker 2: I mean you could see how potentially they would recruit

479
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 2: Santa Claus into those kinds.

480
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:55,159
Speaker 1: Of efforts, right, I mean, what a perfect cover too, Right,

481
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:59,159
Speaker 1: I'm Santa Claus. You want to give children gifts and

482
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:01,920
Speaker 1: sent them installing bugs in people's houses? Right, exactly?

483
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:06,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, So that's document number one. Document number two. This

484
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:10,359
Speaker 2: is it looks like a magazine article, So it's another

485
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,960
Speaker 2: press clipping and it's called the CIA and the Sheik.

486
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:18,920
Speaker 2: The agency coddled Omar abdel Rahman, allowing him to operate

487
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:22,159
Speaker 2: in the US. Now this unholy alliance has blown up

488
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,440
Speaker 2: in our faces. Now, this doesn't have a lawsuit number

489
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 2: on it, but it must have been produced in response

490
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:32,080
Speaker 2: to somebody else's request. And it looks like the article

491
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 2: was published according to the little note they put on

492
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:39,560
Speaker 2: here on March thirtieth, nineteen ninety three. So I did

493
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:42,159
Speaker 2: a little research, and it looks like this article is

494
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:45,720
Speaker 2: from the Village Voice and was written five weeks after

495
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 2: the nineteen ninety three World Trade Center bombing, and Omar

496
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:52,879
Speaker 2: abdel Rahman that they're writing about was later convicted and

497
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:56,680
Speaker 2: jailed for that. This article was thirteen pages long, which

498
00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 2: is more than half of the twenty five pages the

499
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 2: FBI set me. Wow, so you're probably thinking, well, what

500
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 2: does this have to do with Santa Claus?

501
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,880
Speaker 1: Right? Yeah? I was just going to say, what's the

502
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,000
Speaker 1: Santa reference in that one? Yeah?

503
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 2: So you gotta go way deep into the document and

504
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 2: still going, still going here, we go, like, well into it,

505
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,200
Speaker 2: it says the Sheikh then moved entirely to the El

506
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 2: Salam Mosque in Jersey City. The founder of the mosque

507
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 2: is Sultan Ibrahim el Gowali, a wealthy fifty five year

508
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:34,920
Speaker 2: old Egyptian businessman who was convicted by a federal jury

509
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:38,959
Speaker 2: in July nineteen eighty six for conspiring to export one

510
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty pounds of Sea four plastic explosives to

511
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 2: Israel for use by the PLO in a Christmas bombing.

512
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 2: Oh Man El Gwali, who sports a full white Santa

513
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:57,120
Speaker 2: Claus beer Ah, served eighteen months in prison before returning

514
00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:00,439
Speaker 2: to Jersey City. So that's all we got is a

515
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 2: reference to Santa Claus. So that's number two.

516
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,120
Speaker 1: So wait, I just need to ask, are these all

517
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 1: news clippings? Is that what they essentially gave you.

518
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 2: Yes, everything is news clippings, which I find old news

519
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:18,720
Speaker 2: clippings in government files to be really interesting, especially.

520
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 1: The ones where they do leave notations on the clippings.

521
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:25,199
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's great, and have these handwritten notations and.

522
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 2: They think they're so funny. They just think they're so funny,

523
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 2: all right. Next up is a website called the Ruckus Society.

524
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:37,919
Speaker 2: Well I like that, and it's an article from the

525
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 2: Saint Petersburg Times. The headline is a boot Camp for Rebellion.

526
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 2: It's from March of two thousand. It looks like it's

527
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 2: been republished on the Ruckus Society website, and for some

528
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 2: reason that we don't know, the FBI took some kind

529
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 2: of interest in this and put it in a file.

530
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 2: There's a line in here that I really like. These

531
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 2: spring Breakers aren't working on their tans. They're gathered along

532
00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:00,160
Speaker 2: the Peace River to learn how best to stage a protest.

533
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 2: So here's the Santa Claus reference. I heard this was

534
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 2: the place to be, said Sarah Austin, twenty one, who

535
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 2: with four fellow American University students, spent nineteen hours driving

536
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 2: a rattle trap van from Washington, DC. Austin had altered

537
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 2: a Santa Claus shirt to say I believe in sabotage

538
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:24,760
Speaker 2: and plans to be part of the World Bank protest.

539
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 1: Next. Oh man, I thought I was going to say

540
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:31,480
Speaker 1: I believe insane. I mean, if you're altering a Santa

541
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 1: Claus shirt, seems that you just rearrange the letters. Yeah,

542
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:35,960
Speaker 1: all right.

543
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 2: So obviously those were interesting documents, but they still not

544
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 2: what I asked for, And the FBI insisted that if

545
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 2: I wanted something else, I had to make a new request,

546
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 2: which I shouldn't have had to do, but I did

547
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 2: it anyway, And at January thirtieth, twenty twenty four, I

548
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 2: make a new request for the five most recently dated

549
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 2: records resulting from a main file CRS index search for

550
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:01,480
Speaker 2: the term Santa Claus. May limit this to ten pages.

551
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 2: The five most recently dated records resulting from a cross

552
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 2: reference CRS index search for the term Santa Claus. You

553
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 2: may limit this to thirty nine pages. So forty nine

554
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 2: total pages. Jason, what does that make you think of?

555
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 1: Oh, you're trying to keep it under fifty pages so

556
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:19,320
Speaker 1: you can stay in what you might call the simple track,

557
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 1: which theoretically allows for faster processing.

558
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.

559
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 1: You know. I'm like, let's keep the momentum going. Did

560
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:30,240
Speaker 1: you tell them that you did not want previously processed

561
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 1: records or are you saying no?

562
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 2: I just said I want the records resulting from the

563
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 2: particular search that I asked for, which should be the

564
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 2: easiest way to make a request, And I'm expecting like, oh,

565
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:44,440
Speaker 2: this should be pretty easy, right Nope. February twenty seventh,

566
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four. Please be advised that unusual circumstances apply

567
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 2: to the processing of your request. Unusual circumstances include one

568
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:54,960
Speaker 2: or more of the following scenarios and then like stuff

569
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 2: about searching and consulting. These unusual circumstances will delay our

570
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 2: ability to make it a term on your request within

571
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:06,840
Speaker 2: twenty days. So they made this complicated. I indulged them

572
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 2: and made a new request, and then they hit me

573
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 2: with unusual circumstances.

574
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 1: This totally reminds me of what Mike Sarah was saying.

575
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, Mike was on the episode previous to this when

576
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 2: he's a former FOY officer, and he talked a lot

577
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:21,480
Speaker 2: about how FOY officers, if they don't have enough experience

578
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 2: or confidence, they're going to air on the side of

579
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 2: withholding documents instead of producing, which is exactly the opposite

580
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 2: of what the statue is supposed to make happen.

581
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 1: And that's exactly what happened here with your request to

582
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 1: the FBI. I mean, how long would it have taken

583
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 1: for them to do the search you outline.

584
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 2: Like, go to the search query box, type in Santa Claus,

585
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 2: press enter and look at the results. I mean, they

586
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 2: could have been done in like a minute.

587
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 1: The weird thing is that they went back and forth

588
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 1: with you with like a series of letters needing more information.

589
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 1: But that's why I also think or I made that comment, like,

590
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 1: I think they were messing with you because they send

591
00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:59,959
Speaker 1: you this letter. Maybe they didn't realize that you're an attorney.

592
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 1: They ask you for more info. They then get a

593
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:08,960
Speaker 1: letter back providing them with more info. So they were

594
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 1: spending more time communicating with you than actually doing a

595
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 1: search and locating these documents.

596
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, I mean just reading my email took longer

597
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 2: than it would have taken to go just like run

598
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 2: this search.

599
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,360
Speaker 1: The FBI did not respond to our request for comment.

600
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 1: But Matt, is something we need to get to the

601
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 1: bottom of. I mean, what if you find out that

602
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 1: the FBI has a pretty robust investigation into Chris Kringle

603
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 1: aka Santa Claus.

604
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 2: I mean, maybe they wanted to know is he real?

605
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 2: The FBI, for the benefit of our national security, may

606
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 2: feel they need to know that, Yeah, or maybe they

607
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,680
Speaker 2: think he is some sort of a communist, you know,

608
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 2: agitator given toys to everyone who's good. I mean, come on,

609
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 2: that's just communism, Jason, it is, but it is a

610
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 2: good request.

611
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 1: It's worth it. I mean, if we sort of joke

612
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 1: about this, when someone prominent passes away suddenly, and you know,

613
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:17,720
Speaker 1: my reaction is to immediately file request for their FBI file.

614
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:22,720
Speaker 1: And certainly in some instances there are records that may

615
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 1: relate to an investigation or it's a cross reference file.

616
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 1: But there's also evidence showing that they just have files

617
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 1: on everyone, you know. Yes, yeah, and that's the reality.

618
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's why I am really eager to see

619
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 2: what do they have where they actually like we're focused

620
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 2: on Santa Claus at least as a cross reference, because

621
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:51,560
Speaker 2: I mean, he sees you when you're sleeping, he knows

622
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 2: when you're awake. You could see how maybe there's some

623
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 2: Santa Claus FBI collaboration that they just don't want us

624
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 2: to know about. I did eventually get a bounce back, Jason.

625
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 2: Let me let me tell you about it. Dear Matthew topic.

626
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 2: This is in response to your Freedom of Information Privacy

627
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 2: Act FOIPA request. Based on the information you provided, we

628
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:14,920
Speaker 2: conducted a main and reference entity record search of the

629
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:18,920
Speaker 2: Central Record system per our standard search policy. However, we

630
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:23,640
Speaker 2: were unable to identify records subject to the FOIPA that

631
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 2: are responsive to the request. Therefore your request is being closed,

632
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:30,920
Speaker 2: and then some like additional verbiage after that.

633
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:33,319
Speaker 1: Okay, can I just stop you for a second. Here

634
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:38,320
Speaker 1: they said we conducted a main and cross reference search

635
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:42,759
Speaker 1: per our standard search policy. That is not usually their

636
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:47,239
Speaker 1: standard search policy. Sometimes they will say we've conducted a

637
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:50,080
Speaker 1: main file search, and if you want a cross reference search,

638
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:53,040
Speaker 1: you know you got to then request it all over again.

639
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 2: Wait are you saying they might still be messing with

640
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:58,240
Speaker 2: me and that they never actually did a cross reference search.

641
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:00,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I would appeal this.

642
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 2: So there's one other thing here though, too that it

643
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 2: says they were unable to identify records subject to the FOIPA,

644
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:11,760
Speaker 2: so subject to FOYA. So there is this quirky little

645
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 2: provision that says if revealing the existence of records would

646
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:19,839
Speaker 2: jeopardize an investigation, they can just say that there are

647
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,120
Speaker 2: no records. They don't even have to do a regular

648
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 2: glomar and say we can't admit or deny. They just

649
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 2: can kind of treat them like they don't exist. So

650
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 2: it could be that there are records about Santa but

651
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:36,479
Speaker 2: they're using that provision because they do not want Santa

652
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:39,360
Speaker 2: Claus to know that they're hot on his trail. We

653
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 2: can't rule that possibility out, Like, we literally cannot rule

654
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:43,319
Speaker 2: that possibility yet.

655
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 1: I mean, these are tumultuous times. Who knows what will

656
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 1: happen uh this Christmas with Santa. You know, he may

657
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 1: get busted for going into people's houses. This DOJ will.

658
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:59,440
Speaker 2: Not tolerate breaking an entering by people, by communists dressed

659
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 2: in red delivering toys to people who didn't pay for that, Like,

660
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:03,279
Speaker 2: what is.

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00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 1: This socialistic thing that's going on here? Also terriffs? Can

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00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:11,400
Speaker 1: we just like say that, like, you know, toys are expensive?

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00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:13,600
Speaker 1: Now is a tariff? I don't know how san is

664
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:15,240
Speaker 1: gonna do it?

665
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 2: Get you go underneath the tree, there's a box, but

666
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 2: then there's also like four thousand dollars tariff charge.

667
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, sorry kids this year, you're gonna have to pay me.

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00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 1: All right.

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00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 2: Well, as always is the case with us, one thing

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00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:31,879
Speaker 2: leads to another thing leads to another thing. So we'll

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00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:32,839
Speaker 2: see what we turn up.

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00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:36,359
Speaker 1: All right. Happy holidays, brother, Happy holidays.

673
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 2: See all in the new year.

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00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 1: Watch this space from Bloomberg and no smiling. This is disclosure.

675
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,920
Speaker 1: The show is hosted by Matt Topic and me Jason Leopold.

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00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:54,800
Speaker 1: It's produced by Heather Schroing and Sean Cannon for No Smiling.

677
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:59,000
Speaker 1: Our editor for Bloomberg is Jeff Brocott. Our executive producers

678
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:03,960
Speaker 1: for Bloomberg Sagebauman and me Jason Leopold, and our executive

679
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 1: producers for No Smiling are Sean Cannon, Heather Schrowing and

680
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 1: Matt Topic. The disclosure theme song is by Nick, with

681
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 1: additional music by Nick An Epidemic sound sound design and

682
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:20,719
Speaker 1: mixing is by Sean Cannon. For more transparency news and

683
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 1: important document dumps, you can subscribe to my Weeklyfoya Files

684
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 1: newsletter at Bloomberg dot com slash Foya Files. That's Foia Files.

685
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 1: To get every episode early on Apple Podcasts, become a

686
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:38,279
Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot com subscriber today. Check out our special intro

687
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 1: offer right now at Bloomberg dot com Slash podcast offer,

688
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 1: or click the link in the show notes. You'll also

689
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:49,120
Speaker 1: unlock deep reporting data and analysis from reporters around the world.

690
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:58,439
Speaker 1: We'll see you again next Tuesday, Matt. I don't think

691
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:02,400
Speaker 1: I've ever received an invite to that holiday office party.

692
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:03,880
Speaker 2: You might be a little cold for you, but I

693
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 2: would love to have you.

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00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 1: I mean, I probably would decline, but you know, I

695
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 1: would like the invite, so that's that's okay.

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00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 2: You got it, buddy,