WEBVTT - Bush v. Gore: Bonus - What If…

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<v Speaker 1>Pushkin.

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<v Speaker 2>You can't predict these things. You have to make your

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<v Speaker 2>decision on the best available knowledge. You know, once you

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<v Speaker 2>get into retroactive clairvoyance, is nobody left of anything.

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<v Speaker 3>You had all of these different people calling from Florida

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<v Speaker 3>and leaving messages saying do something. Why don't you do something?

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<v Speaker 1>Hello, Fiasco listeners, it's Leon Vok. This is the fourth

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<v Speaker 1>in a series of bonus episodes we're dropping in this feed.

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<v Speaker 1>The goal is to showcase some of the best interviews

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<v Speaker 1>we did for Bush v. Gore, in which we covered

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<v Speaker 1>the ins and outs of the two thousand Florida recount.

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<v Speaker 1>In today's episode, we're looking at the two thousand campaign

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<v Speaker 1>as in the campaign itself, the thing that happened in

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<v Speaker 1>the months leading up to the recount, for all the

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<v Speaker 1>what ifs packed into the thirty days that followed election Day.

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<v Speaker 1>The campaign that preceded it was full of tiny turning

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<v Speaker 1>points that could have changed the outcome one way or another.

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<v Speaker 1>As you heard me say on the first episode of

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<v Speaker 1>the show, the Elian Gonzales saga and the environmental activism

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<v Speaker 1>around the Homestead Air Force Base were just two factors

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<v Speaker 1>that might have changed the razor thin margin on election day.

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<v Speaker 1>So today we have two interviews taking a deeper dive

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<v Speaker 1>into the what ifs that might have prevented or recount altogether.

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<v Speaker 1>First up, Ralph Nader. Nader has been America's most famous

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<v Speaker 1>consumer advocate since nineteen sixty five, when he published a

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<v Speaker 1>groundbreaking expose about the auto industry. Nader trained an entire

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<v Speaker 1>generation of activists. They called themselves Nator's Raiders, and he

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<v Speaker 1>deputized them to investigate all kinds of injustice, inefficiency, and corruption.

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<v Speaker 1>By two thousand was an icon, and he ran for

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<v Speaker 1>president as the Green Party candidate, railing against the two

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<v Speaker 1>party system and sold out arenas.

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<v Speaker 4>What about poverty in the Land of the Free, Home

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<v Speaker 4>of the brave, booming economy. On the one hand, twenty

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<v Speaker 4>percent child poverty in the USA, richest country in the world.

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<v Speaker 4>There are countries in Western Europe that have abolished poverty.

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<v Speaker 4>They did it.

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<v Speaker 1>We interviewed Nator for the first episode of the season

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<v Speaker 1>because his candidacy is so often blamed for Gore's defeat

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<v Speaker 1>and we wanted to hear his perspective on it. Nator

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<v Speaker 1>mapped out why he thought he was a necessary alternative

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<v Speaker 1>and why he thought Gore struggled as a candidate.

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<v Speaker 2>Because he was the front runner, he was too cautious,

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<v Speaker 2>and because he was too cautious, he didn't take pioneering stands.

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<v Speaker 2>He thought he could just say to the public, Look,

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<v Speaker 2>I had eight years of experience in Washington's vice president,

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<v Speaker 2>I was senator, I was representative. I was a journalist

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<v Speaker 2>in Vietnam. And who's this guy, this bumbling governor from

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<v Speaker 2>Texas who couldn't put four sentences together and had a

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<v Speaker 2>horrible record on children's poverty to a corporate pollution.

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<v Speaker 1>And when you when you looked at him and Bush

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<v Speaker 1>side by side on the campaign trail, and I realized,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, you're making distinction between the old al Gore

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<v Speaker 1>and the al Gore who was running for president. When

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<v Speaker 1>you looked at them side by side, what did you see?

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<v Speaker 2>Bush was horrible? I mean, one of the reasons I

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<v Speaker 2>ran was to push the Democrats into a more comprehensive

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<v Speaker 2>assault on Bush's record, because they weren't doing it, and

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<v Speaker 2>so I was saying to myself, well, you know, I

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<v Speaker 2>got to show them how to do it. Unfortunately, in

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<v Speaker 2>the two party duopoly, the press doesn't pay attention to

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<v Speaker 2>third party agendas. By and large.

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<v Speaker 1>When you were on the trail, I know that you

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<v Speaker 1>sort of had a recurring argument that you would make

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<v Speaker 1>that these two guys are in many ways the same,

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<v Speaker 1>or that they were that they you could make distinctions

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<v Speaker 1>on certain policy areas, but that you saw them in

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<v Speaker 1>some ways as fundamentally the same. Can you elaborate on

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<v Speaker 1>that or explain it?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, on certain social safety nets, obviously, they're very different.

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<v Speaker 2>On things like child health, health and childcare and medicare

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<v Speaker 2>preservation and some of the more basic civil liberty, civil rights,

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<v Speaker 2>housing issues. The Democrats were of course better, I mean

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<v Speaker 2>nowhere near enough, but they were very distinctly better than

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<v Speaker 2>the Republicans. But on the biggest issue of AWE, which

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<v Speaker 2>is the corporate state, crony capitalism, corporate welfare, militarism, they

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<v Speaker 2>were increasingly alike.

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<v Speaker 1>Did that carry over into a sense among the electorate

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<v Speaker 1>that this election wasn't that important? Did you detect an

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<v Speaker 1>unusual level of disengagement due to these these pacific candidates.

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<v Speaker 2>Let's put it this way, it was not an exciting election.

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<v Speaker 2>You had boring candidates. Al Gore is very boring candidate.

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<v Speaker 2>George W. Bush was a boring candidate. They agreed with

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<v Speaker 2>each other incredible number of times on the debate. Somebody

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<v Speaker 2>counted once that Bush and Gore agreed with each other

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<v Speaker 2>over twenty times in one residential debate. And so the

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<v Speaker 2>attention of the activists was they would paint George W.

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<v Speaker 2>Bush as bad on the environment, which is true. But

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<v Speaker 2>then Gore, he allowed Bill Clinton to shut him down

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<v Speaker 2>on regulating auto pollution, fuel efficiency standards, and generally were

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<v Speaker 2>very unexciting in the area of environment, which is his

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<v Speaker 2>principal claim to fame. People saw that he wasn't authentic

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<v Speaker 2>when he said I'm for power for the people, not

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<v Speaker 2>the corporations. I'm not for the insured companies, I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>for the oil companies. People really didn't believe them. It

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<v Speaker 2>was too little, too light, and not specific enough. He

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<v Speaker 2>could have done a lot, but he was coasting because

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<v Speaker 2>he thought he had it in a bag.

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<v Speaker 1>It's interesting to hear you say that he was cautious

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<v Speaker 1>because he thought he had it in the bag. I

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<v Speaker 1>feel like there's a competing narrative, or at least one

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<v Speaker 1>I've absorbed somehow that he was cautious because he didn't

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<v Speaker 1>know who he was.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, when I say he was cautious because he thought

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<v Speaker 2>he had it in a bag. That wasn't the only

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<v Speaker 2>reason he was cautious. He's a cautious politician to begin

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<v Speaker 2>with in his prior races, very very cautious. Finger to

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<v Speaker 2>the wind of the powers that be? That's Al Gore

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<v Speaker 2>fingers to the wind of the powers that be.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you agree that there's this phrase that he didn't

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<v Speaker 1>know who he was? Is that something that you subscribe to?

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<v Speaker 5>Oh?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, definitely. If you look at the way he came

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<v Speaker 2>out for each debate, he was a different Al Gore.

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<v Speaker 2>One time he was aggressive, another time he was aloof

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<v Speaker 2>a third time he was like a boxer in a clinch.

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<v Speaker 2>I agree with Governor Bush. You know, over twenty times.

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<v Speaker 1>In one debate you said you didn't do much campaigning

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<v Speaker 1>in Florida, that you'd just gone down for I think

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<v Speaker 1>you said two and a half days. Was that because

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<v Speaker 1>you didn't want to draw votes from Gore in a

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<v Speaker 1>battleground state as close as Florida.

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<v Speaker 2>No, it was not the best management of my schedule.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, I wasn't pulling that high in Florida. I

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<v Speaker 2>was pulling much higher in places like Massachusetts, California, Oregon,

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<v Speaker 2>Washington State, Illinois, and that's where I wanted to spend

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of time because I was looking for the

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<v Speaker 2>aggregate vote. I wasn't in the running for electoral college votes.

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<v Speaker 2>I was looking try to get five percent of the

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<v Speaker 2>total popular vote so we could qualify four years hence

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<v Speaker 2>for federal funds.

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<v Speaker 1>Were there gore people or people from the DNC who

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<v Speaker 1>begged you to not campaign in battleground states.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, in the last few weeks, they didn't beg me.

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<v Speaker 2>They opposed me. They literally took people like Lauria Steinem

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<v Speaker 2>and so on on a tour to turn again against

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<v Speaker 2>my candidacy. Some of them took out ads attacking me.

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<v Speaker 1>Were there any backchannel efforts to get you to not

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<v Speaker 1>go to those states like ay other Buchanan, for example,

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<v Speaker 1>like very deliberately did not go to battleground states. You

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<v Speaker 1>only can't because he was only also going for five percent.

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<v Speaker 1>He campaigned only in safe states that were safe for Bush.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I just thought of principle, I wouldn't listen to

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<v Speaker 2>that sort of thing because you have to respect the

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<v Speaker 2>voters in every state. You can't say I'm not going

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<v Speaker 2>to go to a state because it's a battleground state.

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<v Speaker 2>That's disrespecting potential voters and the interest of all voters

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<v Speaker 2>to have more voices and choices. That's why I rigorously

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<v Speaker 2>campaigned in every fifty states. No other candidate did that,

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<v Speaker 2>small candidate or major party candidate, because it was a

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<v Speaker 2>matter of principle with me.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you remember the emergence of the Nators raiders for Gore?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, very much. I was campaigning in Minnesota and got

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<v Speaker 2>their one or two days press. But you know, they

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<v Speaker 2>weren't in a position to adopt the principle I had.

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<v Speaker 2>They weren't running, Therefore, they didn't want to be obliged

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<v Speaker 2>to respect the voters. They just saw the winner take

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<v Speaker 2>all electoral college duopoly, culled the sac and had to

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<v Speaker 2>adjust to it.

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<v Speaker 1>Did you feel betrayed by them at all, that these

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<v Speaker 1>were your supporters who were going against this principle of

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<v Speaker 1>yours about respecting the voters. That it feel like, I like,

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<v Speaker 1>these guys don't really understand you.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, they were more numerous in two thousand and four.

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<v Speaker 2>Almost the entire progressive lineup of well known progressives dropped

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<v Speaker 2>their supported me in two thousand and four.

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<v Speaker 1>Is that because they just felt so sad about the

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<v Speaker 1>fact that your votes in Florida could have been Gore votes,

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<v Speaker 1>and thus Gore could have been present.

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<v Speaker 2>It's like all smart people they were fact deprived and

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<v Speaker 2>they didn't realize that there were tens sena quantons, any

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<v Speaker 2>one of which, if change, would have won for Gore

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<v Speaker 2>and electoral college and three hundred thousand Democrat voters going

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<v Speaker 2>for Borsch's Supreme Court loss of Tennessee. They bought into

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<v Speaker 2>blaming the Greens and me for every other sena quantone,

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<v Speaker 2>giving us delusions of grandeur. It's amazing. It's almost a

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<v Speaker 2>intellectual tick. It doesn't matter how smart they are, how

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<v Speaker 2>savvy they are. All they look at is the difference

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<v Speaker 2>between the two major candidates and how many votes I got.

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<v Speaker 2>Every third party candidate in Florida got more than five

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<v Speaker 2>hundred and thirty five votes, by the way, But the

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<v Speaker 2>one thing you can look back on is that a

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<v Speaker 2>winner take all system electoral college determination is full of mischief,

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<v Speaker 2>all right.

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<v Speaker 1>That was Ralph Nader, the Green Party presidential candidate in

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<v Speaker 1>two thousand. For many frustrated Gore supporters, Ralph Nader's candidacy

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<v Speaker 1>is one of the most enduring what ifs of the election.

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<v Speaker 1>But there's another election day question mark, one that received

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<v Speaker 1>much less attention during the recount that's coming up after

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<v Speaker 1>the break.

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<v Speaker 3>Some people said that they went down and they were

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<v Speaker 3>told they weren't on the registration rolls, and they couldn't

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<v Speaker 3>understand why they weren't on the roles because they'd been

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<v Speaker 3>voting before.

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<v Speaker 1>This is Mary Francis Berry, a professor at the University

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<v Speaker 1>of Pennsylvania. She's referring to a population of largely African

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<v Speaker 1>American and Latino voters who said they were turned away

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<v Speaker 1>from the polls on election Day. In two thousand, Barry

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<v Speaker 1>was the chair of the US Commission on Civil Rights,

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<v Speaker 1>which was tasked with investigating complaints of disenfranchisement around the country.

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<v Speaker 3>We had to set up a hot land before the

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<v Speaker 3>election so that if there were any complaints, we would

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<v Speaker 3>have a number out there that people could call. We

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<v Speaker 3>had done that in other elections, but in this one

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<v Speaker 3>you had all of these different people calling from Florida

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<v Speaker 3>and leaving messages saying do something, Why don't you do something?

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<v Speaker 1>And so this was like an unusual volume of complaints

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<v Speaker 1>and they were specifically concentrated in Florida.

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<v Speaker 3>Absolutely, they were a volume higher than any I had

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<v Speaker 3>seen and all the time I'd been on the Commission,

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<v Speaker 3>and I was first appointed to the Commission in nineteen eighty.

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<v Speaker 1>In early two thousand and one, the Commission on Civil

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<v Speaker 1>Rights investigated the large number of Florida voters who had

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<v Speaker 1>reported problems at polling sites that prevented them from voting.

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<v Speaker 1>Over the course of their investigation, Barry and her colleagues

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<v Speaker 1>her testimony from dozens of Florida voters and officials, including

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<v Speaker 1>Governor Jeb bush I.

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<v Speaker 5>Asked for a briefing on the alleged concern that felons

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<v Speaker 5>were voting and that non felons were not allowed to

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<v Speaker 5>vote because they were allegedly felons.

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<v Speaker 1>One of the priorities of the investigation was to get

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<v Speaker 1>to the bottom of what's now known as Florida's felon purge.

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<v Speaker 1>In two thousand, it was illegal for anyone with a

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<v Speaker 1>felony conviction to vote in Florida, even after they had

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<v Speaker 1>served their time. So in two thousand, the state of

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<v Speaker 1>Florida commissioned a contractor to create a list of felons

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<v Speaker 1>living in the state and to ensure that they weren't

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<v Speaker 1>registered to vote. The list was deeply flawed and resulted

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<v Speaker 1>in more than a thousand legal voters being turned away

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<v Speaker 1>at the polls. The state office in charge of this

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<v Speaker 1>operation was one that you might be familiar with at

0:13:47.670 --> 0:13:48.111
<v Speaker 1>this point.

0:13:49.030 --> 0:13:52.990
<v Speaker 3>Catherine Harris, as Secretary of State, had direct responsibility under

0:13:52.991 --> 0:13:57.271
<v Speaker 3>the law for the elections, and she testified. I recall

0:13:57.310 --> 0:13:59.831
<v Speaker 3>her saying something like she was in a hurry and

0:13:59.871 --> 0:14:02.151
<v Speaker 3>didn't have much time because she was going to New

0:14:02.231 --> 0:14:05.551
<v Speaker 3>York on a shopping trip or some thing like that,

0:14:05.631 --> 0:14:08.190
<v Speaker 3>which I didn't understand why she told us that, but anyway,

0:14:09.111 --> 0:14:14.550
<v Speaker 3>she said that she had handed it over to her subordinates,

0:14:14.790 --> 0:14:19.230
<v Speaker 3>and we in particular asked her we had testimony from

0:14:19.271 --> 0:14:23.671
<v Speaker 3>a firm that her office had hired to purge clean

0:14:23.751 --> 0:14:26.351
<v Speaker 3>up the voting roles, to make sure that there were

0:14:26.391 --> 0:14:29.791
<v Speaker 3>in no extraneous names and it was all clear, and

0:14:31.151 --> 0:14:35.791
<v Speaker 3>to do it scientifically. And the head of this company,

0:14:35.991 --> 0:14:40.191
<v Speaker 3>which had many contracts with the government, testified that under

0:14:40.231 --> 0:14:44.431
<v Speaker 3>oath that they told her office that if they did

0:14:44.511 --> 0:14:47.071
<v Speaker 3>the procedure the way they had asked them to do it,

0:14:47.671 --> 0:14:51.711
<v Speaker 3>they would get a lot of false positives of people

0:14:51.751 --> 0:14:54.830
<v Speaker 3>who were actually registered, and asked if they should change

0:14:54.830 --> 0:14:58.711
<v Speaker 3>the procedure, and that Harris's office and her staff told

0:14:58.751 --> 0:15:00.431
<v Speaker 3>them to go ahead and do it the way they

0:15:00.471 --> 0:15:03.470
<v Speaker 3>had told them to do it, which they did, and

0:15:03.511 --> 0:15:07.791
<v Speaker 3>so the result was that there were people whose names

0:15:07.830 --> 0:15:11.271
<v Speaker 3>were confused with other people's names, people who had told

0:15:11.311 --> 0:15:15.871
<v Speaker 3>they weren't registered when they were. And one black minister

0:15:16.031 --> 0:15:19.351
<v Speaker 3>testified that when he went to vote and took his

0:15:19.351 --> 0:15:21.631
<v Speaker 3>family with him, he liked his kids to watch when

0:15:21.631 --> 0:15:25.511
<v Speaker 3>he went to vote, to get the experience of seeing

0:15:25.551 --> 0:15:27.951
<v Speaker 3>the polling place and all that. And he went in

0:15:28.031 --> 0:15:30.471
<v Speaker 3>and he'd voted before, and they told him in a

0:15:30.551 --> 0:15:34.031
<v Speaker 3>very loud voice where everyone could hear, that he was

0:15:34.071 --> 0:15:38.710
<v Speaker 3>a convicted felon. And he was outraged because he said,

0:15:38.951 --> 0:15:42.471
<v Speaker 3>not only aim, I'm not ever convicted of anything. I've

0:15:42.551 --> 0:15:46.031
<v Speaker 3>even been charged with anything, and the only time I've

0:15:46.071 --> 0:15:48.391
<v Speaker 3>been to the courthouse is when I served on a jury,

0:15:48.551 --> 0:15:52.231
<v Speaker 3>So I don't understand how I could be a convicted felon.

0:15:52.311 --> 0:15:55.111
<v Speaker 3>Could you call up somebody and find out, you know,

0:15:55.191 --> 0:15:57.431
<v Speaker 3>this is a mistake. And then they said they couldn't

0:15:57.471 --> 0:16:00.551
<v Speaker 3>get through to the office where they would check this,

0:16:00.710 --> 0:16:02.791
<v Speaker 3>so he ended up having to slink out of the

0:16:03.111 --> 0:16:07.351
<v Speaker 3>room with everybody looking at him as this convicted felon,

0:16:08.111 --> 0:16:10.431
<v Speaker 3>when in fact his name was on the roll and

0:16:10.471 --> 0:16:12.511
<v Speaker 3>he had been on the rolls. He said he felt

0:16:12.551 --> 0:16:15.830
<v Speaker 3>slingshotted back to slavery when they told him that he

0:16:15.871 --> 0:16:18.711
<v Speaker 3>was just and he was so disconsolate even by the

0:16:18.791 --> 0:16:21.031
<v Speaker 3>time he came to the hero and so it was

0:16:21.111 --> 0:16:24.911
<v Speaker 3>really sort of an outrageous sort of thing that happened.

0:16:25.231 --> 0:16:28.470
<v Speaker 6>Was it your sense at that point that the fellon

0:16:28.551 --> 0:16:31.591
<v Speaker 6>purge list was the primary driver of the problems you

0:16:31.590 --> 0:16:33.791
<v Speaker 6>were getting reports on election day?

0:16:34.071 --> 0:16:36.791
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it was our understanding, or it seemed to me

0:16:37.391 --> 0:16:43.151
<v Speaker 3>that that list, that process was a major problem, that

0:16:43.191 --> 0:16:47.391
<v Speaker 3>there were any number of people who were not on

0:16:47.431 --> 0:16:51.951
<v Speaker 3>the rolls. The other major problem that compounded it was

0:16:52.231 --> 0:16:57.351
<v Speaker 3>that we found out in one county that the election

0:16:58.391 --> 0:17:02.231
<v Speaker 3>office state election office made sure that there were cell

0:17:02.271 --> 0:17:07.591
<v Speaker 3>phones given to some of the precincts, but there weren't

0:17:07.631 --> 0:17:10.671
<v Speaker 3>any given to the precincts where there were Latino voters

0:17:10.791 --> 0:17:11.391
<v Speaker 3>or whether they were.

0:17:11.351 --> 0:17:14.791
<v Speaker 6>Black voters, so that cell phones they could use to

0:17:15.150 --> 0:17:15.670
<v Speaker 6>the election.

0:17:15.830 --> 0:17:18.831
<v Speaker 3>That the volunteers who were there or who were hired

0:17:19.110 --> 0:17:21.511
<v Speaker 3>to conduct the election, the people who sit there at

0:17:21.551 --> 0:17:24.150
<v Speaker 3>the tables, you know, during election checking the rolls and

0:17:24.191 --> 0:17:26.871
<v Speaker 3>so on could call up if they had some problem,

0:17:27.390 --> 0:17:30.831
<v Speaker 3>and they didn't give cell phones. In some district. They

0:17:30.870 --> 0:17:34.270
<v Speaker 3>were very particular about who had a cell phone and

0:17:34.311 --> 0:17:36.230
<v Speaker 3>who could call up and who could not. And it

0:17:36.390 --> 0:17:39.231
<v Speaker 3>just turned out that the ones who couldn't call up

0:17:39.311 --> 0:17:41.231
<v Speaker 3>were the district where there were the problems.

0:17:41.511 --> 0:17:41.751
<v Speaker 4>Right.

0:17:42.311 --> 0:17:46.471
<v Speaker 6>Can you describe the reaction to your report and how

0:17:46.511 --> 0:17:48.791
<v Speaker 6>it worked politically, what its impact was politically.

0:17:49.390 --> 0:17:56.511
<v Speaker 3>Sometimes when you do reports in government agencies like the

0:17:56.551 --> 0:18:01.670
<v Speaker 3>Commission that are investigative and informative, the reports sort of

0:18:01.711 --> 0:18:04.191
<v Speaker 3>collect dust. You know, there might be a one day

0:18:04.231 --> 0:18:08.110
<v Speaker 3>half story about you did a report, but then after

0:18:08.150 --> 0:18:11.031
<v Speaker 3>that you know it served its purpose. It has been

0:18:11.071 --> 0:18:13.511
<v Speaker 3>a safety valve for people who want to talk about it,

0:18:13.590 --> 0:18:16.870
<v Speaker 3>to complain or do whatever, and you make your recommendations.

0:18:17.471 --> 0:18:19.551
<v Speaker 3>But I was determined when I was chair of the

0:18:19.551 --> 0:18:23.031
<v Speaker 3>Commission that we would only do reports that were important

0:18:23.071 --> 0:18:26.431
<v Speaker 3>and substantive, and that we would make sure that our

0:18:26.471 --> 0:18:30.911
<v Speaker 3>recommendations had some kind of teeth and were in conformity

0:18:30.951 --> 0:18:35.630
<v Speaker 3>with what we found, and that we would look toward

0:18:35.791 --> 0:18:38.670
<v Speaker 3>trying to get some kind of legislation help the Congress

0:18:39.590 --> 0:18:41.471
<v Speaker 3>and the President is trying to get some kind of

0:18:41.630 --> 0:18:45.390
<v Speaker 3>legislation to remedy whatever problems we found. Okay, so the

0:18:45.431 --> 0:18:50.150
<v Speaker 3>report came out, and it did not just gathered us

0:18:50.951 --> 0:18:55.791
<v Speaker 3>the Senate, thank Senator Dodd from Connecticut. Chris Dodd was

0:18:55.911 --> 0:18:58.430
<v Speaker 3>chair of the committee over there that considered it. I

0:18:58.511 --> 0:19:02.950
<v Speaker 3>remember Diane Feinstein was on the committee, a leading member

0:19:02.951 --> 0:19:06.750
<v Speaker 3>of it. That committee and its staff held hearings on

0:19:06.830 --> 0:19:12.630
<v Speaker 3>the report. We recommended that the federal government pass a

0:19:12.791 --> 0:19:17.631
<v Speaker 3>law which set up some kind of election commission and

0:19:17.751 --> 0:19:21.110
<v Speaker 3>in fact required the states to change and clean up

0:19:21.150 --> 0:19:24.910
<v Speaker 3>their procedures so that we wouldn't have this kind of

0:19:24.951 --> 0:19:28.510
<v Speaker 3>purge that took place from this company that ended up

0:19:28.551 --> 0:19:31.711
<v Speaker 3>calling people felons who weren't felons and all that sort

0:19:31.791 --> 0:19:34.910
<v Speaker 3>of stuff. And that the states looked to see that

0:19:35.630 --> 0:19:41.470
<v Speaker 3>polling places are accessible, and that the Congress and also

0:19:41.711 --> 0:19:46.150
<v Speaker 3>that discouraged the states from having police officers patrolling up

0:19:46.231 --> 0:19:48.990
<v Speaker 3>and down a highway patrolment on the roads leading to

0:19:49.031 --> 0:19:53.910
<v Speaker 3>the polling places, which sometimes intimidated people who wanted to

0:19:53.991 --> 0:19:58.111
<v Speaker 3>vote and didn't know what was happening. And that all

0:19:58.150 --> 0:20:01.710
<v Speaker 3>of these different problems ought to be addressed by legislation.

0:20:02.031 --> 0:20:06.830
<v Speaker 3>And I was pleased to see. The Congress passed some

0:20:06.991 --> 0:20:10.910
<v Speaker 3>legislation called Help America Vote Act up and the Election

0:20:11.031 --> 0:20:15.390
<v Speaker 3>Assistance Commission and appropriated a bunch of money. Sometimes Congress

0:20:15.511 --> 0:20:19.151
<v Speaker 3>authorizes things, but they don't appropriate any money to give

0:20:19.231 --> 0:20:23.190
<v Speaker 3>to the states in order for them to fix some

0:20:23.390 --> 0:20:24.511
<v Speaker 3>of these problems.

0:20:25.431 --> 0:20:29.431
<v Speaker 6>How effective was that legislation and the formation of that organization?

0:20:29.751 --> 0:20:33.390
<v Speaker 3>Well after the law passed and the money came and

0:20:33.471 --> 0:20:40.350
<v Speaker 3>people's attention went elsewhere. The Election Assistance Commission had no teeth.

0:20:40.630 --> 0:20:43.751
<v Speaker 3>I knew that to begin with, because the Constitution in

0:20:43.870 --> 0:20:47.830
<v Speaker 3>Article one leaves the way elections are conducted to the

0:20:47.870 --> 0:20:53.630
<v Speaker 3>states unless there is discrimination under the fourteenth Amendment, and

0:20:53.671 --> 0:20:56.110
<v Speaker 3>then you can file a civil rights complaint, which is

0:20:56.150 --> 0:21:00.351
<v Speaker 3>what we had been looking at. But the normal election process,

0:21:00.551 --> 0:21:04.071
<v Speaker 3>that is, how do they handle the roles and where

0:21:04.110 --> 0:21:07.351
<v Speaker 3>the polling play. All that stuff is under the control

0:21:07.390 --> 0:21:11.351
<v Speaker 3>of the states. So the Election Assistance Commission was not

0:21:11.431 --> 0:21:15.231
<v Speaker 3>given the authority to force the states to do anything,

0:21:15.390 --> 0:21:18.150
<v Speaker 3>because Congress couldn't give them the authority to do that.

0:21:18.590 --> 0:21:20.590
<v Speaker 3>But they thought that if they gave them the money

0:21:21.951 --> 0:21:25.151
<v Speaker 3>and then monitored how they spent the money, then indeed

0:21:25.231 --> 0:21:27.830
<v Speaker 3>they might change some of these procedures, and some of

0:21:27.870 --> 0:21:30.071
<v Speaker 3>the states did a lot of them did. They used

0:21:30.110 --> 0:21:33.830
<v Speaker 3>the money to buy new equipment and so you wouldn't

0:21:33.870 --> 0:21:38.031
<v Speaker 3>have all those chad things again and to use paper ballots,

0:21:38.071 --> 0:21:43.430
<v Speaker 3>and they some of them put out policies where they

0:21:43.471 --> 0:21:51.271
<v Speaker 3>wouldn't have an overriding police presidence around the roads to elections.

0:21:51.311 --> 0:21:55.071
<v Speaker 3>I mean, there were some things actually that actually got

0:21:55.150 --> 0:21:56.350
<v Speaker 3>changed as a result.

0:21:57.471 --> 0:21:59.231
<v Speaker 1>You sort of got up this with the answer you

0:21:59.271 --> 0:22:03.031
<v Speaker 1>just gave. But do you think there's the fact that

0:22:03.511 --> 0:22:06.950
<v Speaker 1>a federal national election is administered by the states in

0:22:06.951 --> 0:22:10.430
<v Speaker 1>the federal system that we have is inherently flawed. Do

0:22:10.471 --> 0:22:12.670
<v Speaker 1>you think it's possible for a national election to be

0:22:13.630 --> 0:22:17.031
<v Speaker 1>fair and fairly administered and equally administered across the country

0:22:17.271 --> 0:22:19.390
<v Speaker 1>when each state is in charge of their own operation.

0:22:20.350 --> 0:22:23.271
<v Speaker 3>Well, one answer to that question is that we've had

0:22:23.311 --> 0:22:30.311
<v Speaker 3>federal elections in which federal officials have involved in corrupt behavior.

0:22:30.671 --> 0:22:35.190
<v Speaker 3>So it doesn't necessarily mean that because they're state officials.

0:22:35.390 --> 0:22:40.951
<v Speaker 3>So that's one answer. Okay, I think that it's okay

0:22:41.271 --> 0:22:45.391
<v Speaker 3>to unless we amend the constitution, which is hard to do,

0:22:46.390 --> 0:22:51.311
<v Speaker 3>you can't change that procedure. I do think the answer

0:22:51.511 --> 0:22:57.710
<v Speaker 3>is for now for the Congress to give more powers

0:22:57.751 --> 0:23:02.870
<v Speaker 3>to the Election Assistance Commission to hold hearings which it

0:23:02.911 --> 0:23:07.870
<v Speaker 3>doesn't have, to call people in to monitor them, to

0:23:07.951 --> 0:23:12.391
<v Speaker 3>staff them, to show that some people weren't serious about it.

0:23:12.511 --> 0:23:14.991
<v Speaker 3>They didn't give their much staff to the commission that

0:23:15.191 --> 0:23:18.751
<v Speaker 3>commissioned it, didn't hardly had anybody to do anything. So

0:23:19.711 --> 0:23:23.311
<v Speaker 3>just putting some sunlight on what people were doing and

0:23:23.350 --> 0:23:26.671
<v Speaker 3>having enough staff to do that, I think would help

0:23:26.711 --> 0:23:30.110
<v Speaker 3>the process.

0:23:31.711 --> 0:23:34.991
<v Speaker 1>In twenty eighteen, Florida voters passed an amendment to the

0:23:34.991 --> 0:23:39.751
<v Speaker 1>state constitution restoring voting rights to approximately one million Floridians

0:23:39.751 --> 0:23:44.230
<v Speaker 1>with felonies on their records. The following year, Republican legislators

0:23:44.271 --> 0:23:47.551
<v Speaker 1>passed a law stating that people with felonies cannot cast

0:23:47.590 --> 0:23:50.751
<v Speaker 1>a ballot until they've paid off their outstanding fines and

0:23:50.791 --> 0:23:54.271
<v Speaker 1>court fees. As a result, most of the one million

0:23:54.271 --> 0:23:56.431
<v Speaker 1>people who regained the right to vote back in twenty

0:23:56.471 --> 0:24:08.031
<v Speaker 1>eighteen still can't actually do it. Fiasco BUSHVII Gore is

0:24:08.071 --> 0:24:11.350
<v Speaker 1>produced by Prolog Projects and district bed by Pushkin Industries.

0:24:11.870 --> 0:24:15.071
<v Speaker 1>The show is produced by Madeline kaplan Ulla Culpa, Andrew

0:24:15.110 --> 0:24:19.071
<v Speaker 1>Parsons and me Leon nafak We. Had additional editorial support

0:24:19.110 --> 0:24:22.670
<v Speaker 1>from Lisa Chase and Daniel Riley. Thanks for listening, We'll

0:24:22.671 --> 0:24:23.350
<v Speaker 1>see you next week.