1 00:00:04,038 --> 00:00:07,358 Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:13,798 --> 00:00:17,398 Speaker 1: Hello again, everybody, Welcome back to the Book of Joe podcast. 3 00:00:17,598 --> 00:00:22,318 Speaker 1: I am Tom Verducci, joined by Joe Madden, and Joe's 4 00:00:22,358 --> 00:00:24,878 Speaker 1: been in the news lately. I'm really interested in digging 5 00:00:24,878 --> 00:00:29,078 Speaker 1: into this topic with you, and that is discipline. It's 6 00:00:29,118 --> 00:00:31,718 Speaker 1: a word we don't hear a lot of in baseball 7 00:00:31,798 --> 00:00:34,758 Speaker 1: these days, but it became front and center because of 8 00:00:34,798 --> 00:00:39,558 Speaker 1: an issue in Saint Louis with manager Ali Marmol and 9 00:00:39,678 --> 00:00:43,158 Speaker 1: one of his players, Tyler O'Neill. If you weren't aware 10 00:00:43,158 --> 00:00:45,998 Speaker 1: of it, I'll give you the cliff Notes version. O'Neill 11 00:00:46,118 --> 00:00:48,918 Speaker 1: was thrown out at the plate on a two out 12 00:00:49,038 --> 00:00:52,038 Speaker 1: single to right field. He was on second base, down 13 00:00:52,118 --> 00:00:54,878 Speaker 1: three runs. Kind of close play at the plate, but 14 00:00:55,518 --> 00:00:58,758 Speaker 1: in the manager's opinion, he did not think that O'Neill 15 00:00:58,958 --> 00:01:01,678 Speaker 1: was busting it to score the run, called him out 16 00:01:02,278 --> 00:01:05,118 Speaker 1: first in a private conversation in the clubhouse after the 17 00:01:05,158 --> 00:01:08,638 Speaker 1: game and then to the media after the game, and 18 00:01:08,718 --> 00:01:11,318 Speaker 1: Tyler O'Neill was a little bit taken him back by 19 00:01:11,598 --> 00:01:16,358 Speaker 1: at least being admonished publicly, and actually shot back the 20 00:01:16,358 --> 00:01:19,398 Speaker 1: next day as his manager was saying, basically, you should 21 00:01:19,398 --> 00:01:23,798 Speaker 1: have handled that in house. Ali, So, Joe, I'm curious 22 00:01:23,798 --> 00:01:27,478 Speaker 1: that you know, obviously we weren't privy to every tiny 23 00:01:27,598 --> 00:01:30,838 Speaker 1: detail that happened behind the scenes, but that's the public 24 00:01:30,958 --> 00:01:33,878 Speaker 1: version of the events. Give me your reaction as a 25 00:01:33,958 --> 00:01:38,478 Speaker 1: manager about how that situation was handled. Yeah, I mean, 26 00:01:38,798 --> 00:01:40,278 Speaker 1: there might have been a little bit of assumption on 27 00:01:40,318 --> 00:01:41,918 Speaker 1: his party. It looked like he was looking into the 28 00:01:41,918 --> 00:01:45,758 Speaker 1: outfield rounding third base, and I think I saw that too, 29 00:01:45,798 --> 00:01:48,678 Speaker 1: But again, that's neither here nor there, and I understand 30 00:01:48,718 --> 00:01:51,278 Speaker 1: what you're saying completely. The part that's interesting to me 31 00:01:51,358 --> 00:01:54,358 Speaker 1: is that he went back out on the field. You know, 32 00:01:54,398 --> 00:01:57,918 Speaker 1: if I think pretty sure if it was in my situation, 33 00:01:58,398 --> 00:02:00,638 Speaker 1: had I thought that, I would have just pulled him 34 00:02:00,718 --> 00:02:03,118 Speaker 1: right there. The fact that he went back on the field, 35 00:02:03,158 --> 00:02:04,918 Speaker 1: that could have been more easy league concealed from the 36 00:02:04,918 --> 00:02:08,318 Speaker 1: press or the public in general. You went back out 37 00:02:08,318 --> 00:02:11,918 Speaker 1: on the field, you could have had this conversation with him, 38 00:02:12,118 --> 00:02:14,278 Speaker 1: unless it was brought up by somebody else. There was 39 00:02:14,318 --> 00:02:17,278 Speaker 1: nothing to really talk about. And it's a little bit 40 00:02:17,318 --> 00:02:21,118 Speaker 1: cleaner to handle it that way. So I've saying this 41 00:02:21,238 --> 00:02:23,358 Speaker 1: because I've done it. I've done it I did it 42 00:02:23,358 --> 00:02:27,638 Speaker 1: with bj Upton that the minor leagues with James sap Randall, 43 00:02:27,958 --> 00:02:30,078 Speaker 1: And you know, it's obvious you're pulling him off the 44 00:02:30,118 --> 00:02:33,158 Speaker 1: field during the game after that bad after jogging the 45 00:02:33,238 --> 00:02:36,238 Speaker 1: first base would ever come in from center field, and 46 00:02:36,278 --> 00:02:38,758 Speaker 1: so it's obvious. So there's more, there's more explaining to do. 47 00:02:38,918 --> 00:02:44,438 Speaker 1: But anytime, in my opinion, you could protect in a 48 00:02:44,518 --> 00:02:46,838 Speaker 1: sense that that's part of the manager's job is to protect. 49 00:02:48,038 --> 00:02:50,158 Speaker 1: And then again he may have been wanting to set 50 00:02:50,198 --> 00:02:52,718 Speaker 1: an example verbally, not only to that team, but maybe 51 00:02:52,718 --> 00:02:56,038 Speaker 1: to the entire organization. I've said that too, again when 52 00:02:56,038 --> 00:02:57,918 Speaker 1: I've done it in the past on the major league level. 53 00:02:58,998 --> 00:03:01,038 Speaker 1: This is something I talked about in spring training. So 54 00:03:01,078 --> 00:03:05,238 Speaker 1: then I am preaching to everybody. You're not just preaching 55 00:03:05,278 --> 00:03:07,478 Speaker 1: to that player, You're preaching to the entire organization. You're 56 00:03:07,478 --> 00:03:11,678 Speaker 1: trying to establish a culture, a method of operation. This 57 00:03:11,718 --> 00:03:13,838 Speaker 1: is how we do things here. All that is in 58 00:03:13,958 --> 00:03:17,598 Speaker 1: play in that moment. So everybody could argue whether he 59 00:03:17,798 --> 00:03:20,438 Speaker 1: was running as hard or not, and the player can 60 00:03:20,518 --> 00:03:23,038 Speaker 1: say what he'd like to say whatever, But for me, 61 00:03:23,198 --> 00:03:28,118 Speaker 1: always tried to deal with it, praise publicly, criticized, privately, 62 00:03:28,838 --> 00:03:31,758 Speaker 1: and like I said, if you could conceal it, don't 63 00:03:31,798 --> 00:03:34,678 Speaker 1: have to talk about something right now because the the 64 00:03:35,918 --> 00:03:38,118 Speaker 1: the mechanics of the game permitted you to not have 65 00:03:38,198 --> 00:03:40,678 Speaker 1: to talk about it, whereas if you had pulled him, 66 00:03:40,798 --> 00:03:42,478 Speaker 1: you had no choice but to talk about it. So 67 00:03:43,558 --> 00:03:45,118 Speaker 1: quite frankly, I would to think about all those things. 68 00:03:45,158 --> 00:03:47,918 Speaker 1: They would have been all part of my decision making costs. 69 00:03:48,958 --> 00:03:51,278 Speaker 1: It was not the end of the game. I was 70 00:03:51,398 --> 00:03:53,598 Speaker 1: later in the game, but they did go back on 71 00:03:53,638 --> 00:03:56,958 Speaker 1: the field and O'Neill did stay in the game. Okay. 72 00:03:57,038 --> 00:04:02,478 Speaker 1: Ali Marmole after the game called it unacceptable, and O'Neill 73 00:04:03,158 --> 00:04:07,038 Speaker 1: did say, in his own defense, he thought he was 74 00:04:07,158 --> 00:04:10,918 Speaker 1: running properly. He said he was worried about forming it, 75 00:04:10,998 --> 00:04:13,998 Speaker 1: making it tight term and he thought his speed was 76 00:04:14,198 --> 00:04:17,518 Speaker 1: just fine. But I'll tell you, in today's game, we 77 00:04:17,598 --> 00:04:19,798 Speaker 1: have numbers for everything, Joe, and you know this, and 78 00:04:19,838 --> 00:04:23,478 Speaker 1: they measure the sprint speed of players, and at full 79 00:04:23,518 --> 00:04:27,358 Speaker 1: speed O'Neill is in the ninety seventh percentile in Major 80 00:04:27,438 --> 00:04:30,838 Speaker 1: League Baseball runners. He's a fast runner. And when you 81 00:04:30,958 --> 00:04:34,998 Speaker 1: broke down the actual sprint speed of Tyler O'Neill, he 82 00:04:35,078 --> 00:04:38,918 Speaker 1: was not running full speed. You cannot look at the 83 00:04:38,998 --> 00:04:41,478 Speaker 1: numbers of Tyler O'Neill and say he was busting it 84 00:04:41,558 --> 00:04:45,118 Speaker 1: to score that run. It was significantly down. I looked 85 00:04:45,118 --> 00:04:48,118 Speaker 1: just eyeballing it. I thought his break was a soft break, 86 00:04:48,238 --> 00:04:52,718 Speaker 1: not a heartbreak. As you know, Joe, with two outs, 87 00:04:52,718 --> 00:04:56,318 Speaker 1: you're on second base, you're running until you're stopped. You're 88 00:04:56,318 --> 00:05:00,078 Speaker 1: not waiting to go. It's go time. So his defense 89 00:05:00,158 --> 00:05:04,398 Speaker 1: did wash because the data proved he was not running 90 00:05:04,518 --> 00:05:06,558 Speaker 1: at full speed, and he did not say he was 91 00:05:06,598 --> 00:05:09,198 Speaker 1: trying to protect an injury. So I think in this case, 92 00:05:09,198 --> 00:05:12,638 Speaker 1: the data supports the manager. Well, I mean, even back then, 93 00:05:13,518 --> 00:05:17,478 Speaker 1: when an manager would be upset with you. I'm trying 94 00:05:17,478 --> 00:05:20,238 Speaker 1: to think of it. It normally was in house. It 95 00:05:20,358 --> 00:05:23,798 Speaker 1: wasn't something you really wanted to take publicly unless it 96 00:05:23,878 --> 00:05:27,358 Speaker 1: absolutely had to. I can't think of specific examples, but 97 00:05:27,398 --> 00:05:29,318 Speaker 1: as you're talking this all the way through, and there's 98 00:05:29,318 --> 00:05:33,038 Speaker 1: another time I had with another player, and again it 99 00:05:33,158 --> 00:05:36,878 Speaker 1: was not public, but I got him in a room 100 00:05:37,478 --> 00:05:40,758 Speaker 1: with two other coaches and myself, and I got into 101 00:05:40,838 --> 00:05:44,318 Speaker 1: him pretty good, and I wanted to. I was kind 102 00:05:44,318 --> 00:05:47,278 Speaker 1: of like criticizing his heart. You know, his method is 103 00:05:47,318 --> 00:05:52,838 Speaker 1: a motivation to play and I kind of said to him, listen, 104 00:05:52,918 --> 00:05:55,118 Speaker 1: unless you come in within a day or two and 105 00:05:55,158 --> 00:05:59,718 Speaker 1: apologize or no, tell me specifically that that's not going 106 00:05:59,798 --> 00:06:01,718 Speaker 1: to happen again. Until you do that, you're not going 107 00:06:01,758 --> 00:06:05,438 Speaker 1: to play. And then a couple of days went on, 108 00:06:05,518 --> 00:06:08,718 Speaker 1: player does not show up, and finally I reevaluated to 109 00:06:08,758 --> 00:06:11,118 Speaker 1: myself and that but that was really a poor method 110 00:06:11,118 --> 00:06:13,478 Speaker 1: on my part to create or put out there and 111 00:06:13,558 --> 00:06:16,558 Speaker 1: ultimatum like that. And so I called the player to 112 00:06:16,638 --> 00:06:19,078 Speaker 1: myself and I apologize to him for the way I 113 00:06:19,118 --> 00:06:22,358 Speaker 1: handled the situation. But again, nobody knows about it. Nobody 114 00:06:22,438 --> 00:06:24,678 Speaker 1: knew about it. Nobody knows about it. And as it 115 00:06:24,758 --> 00:06:27,518 Speaker 1: turned out, eventually he and I became like kind of 116 00:06:27,518 --> 00:06:30,518 Speaker 1: like best of friends, and I just so sometimes we 117 00:06:30,598 --> 00:06:34,238 Speaker 1: don't always handle these things properly or well. And it's 118 00:06:34,238 --> 00:06:36,398 Speaker 1: a lesson that I had learned in that moment. Read 119 00:06:36,438 --> 00:06:40,238 Speaker 1: in the book nineteen sixty four is at Halberstrom about 120 00:06:40,238 --> 00:06:43,878 Speaker 1: the Cardinals and the Yankees in the World Series. But 121 00:06:43,998 --> 00:06:47,518 Speaker 1: prior to that, in that season, Johnny Keane had called 122 00:06:47,558 --> 00:06:52,318 Speaker 1: Race Sadecki into his office and he was kind of 123 00:06:52,358 --> 00:06:56,998 Speaker 1: denigrating his desire and his work ethic and his competitive 124 00:06:57,078 --> 00:07:02,038 Speaker 1: nature and wanting to win and etc. And Sadeki he said, wait, 125 00:07:02,038 --> 00:07:05,518 Speaker 1: wait a second here. Now you you could question my performance. 126 00:07:05,558 --> 00:07:07,158 Speaker 1: You can say I'm rather you're not pitching well, you 127 00:07:07,158 --> 00:07:09,638 Speaker 1: can say kind of stink could? You could do whatever 128 00:07:09,678 --> 00:07:12,038 Speaker 1: you want, But do you do not question my heart? 129 00:07:12,558 --> 00:07:15,318 Speaker 1: Do not get in there. Stay You just don't know that, 130 00:07:15,358 --> 00:07:17,838 Speaker 1: you don't know what that's all about. So that that 131 00:07:17,878 --> 00:07:20,758 Speaker 1: passage in that book really in an impact on me 132 00:07:20,798 --> 00:07:23,878 Speaker 1: as a manager too. So when you're when you're doing 133 00:07:23,918 --> 00:07:28,798 Speaker 1: things like this, you're basically questioning the athlete's heart is desire, 134 00:07:29,198 --> 00:07:33,038 Speaker 1: is being a good teammate, and that's you got to 135 00:07:33,078 --> 00:07:35,038 Speaker 1: be right. You got to be right with something like that. 136 00:07:35,078 --> 00:07:37,718 Speaker 1: You can say, like I said, it's just like Sedeki said, 137 00:07:37,718 --> 00:07:39,278 Speaker 1: you can tell me I'm stinking right now, I'm not 138 00:07:39,318 --> 00:07:41,638 Speaker 1: playing well. I have to accept that you're right. I 139 00:07:41,678 --> 00:07:44,118 Speaker 1: gotta do something about the skip. But when you get 140 00:07:44,158 --> 00:07:46,558 Speaker 1: into the matters of the heart, the internal workings of 141 00:07:46,558 --> 00:07:50,678 Speaker 1: the human being, and question that without full knowing that 142 00:07:50,718 --> 00:07:54,598 Speaker 1: I am right, that's a real tough aread to sachet into. 143 00:07:54,678 --> 00:07:58,638 Speaker 1: So I did but the player, but fortunately did it privately, 144 00:07:58,678 --> 00:08:01,598 Speaker 1: and then eventually I apologized to him. So from that 145 00:08:01,638 --> 00:08:04,438 Speaker 1: moment on, and this was several years ago, that was 146 00:08:04,438 --> 00:08:07,278 Speaker 1: a lesson learned on my part. So again, this is 147 00:08:07,318 --> 00:08:09,318 Speaker 1: I think this is what we're talking about, experience in 148 00:08:09,358 --> 00:08:11,318 Speaker 1: wisdom and field, to which the job that you're doing, 149 00:08:11,398 --> 00:08:15,238 Speaker 1: mistake mistakes, make mistakes in middlind or make mistakes in 150 00:08:15,678 --> 00:08:18,398 Speaker 1: quad cities or Peoria, make mistakes where nobody else can 151 00:08:18,398 --> 00:08:20,678 Speaker 1: see these mistakes, so that when you get a chance 152 00:08:20,718 --> 00:08:23,358 Speaker 1: to do it on a larger stage, you have some 153 00:08:23,438 --> 00:08:25,478 Speaker 1: kind of experience to draw on. And that's the best 154 00:08:25,518 --> 00:08:27,638 Speaker 1: way I can describe this to you. So I didn't 155 00:08:27,638 --> 00:08:31,438 Speaker 1: always hand it perfectly. I did make my mistakes with it, 156 00:08:31,478 --> 00:08:34,278 Speaker 1: made my best shot. But eventually, when you make the 157 00:08:34,318 --> 00:08:38,078 Speaker 1: mistakes away from the maddening crowd, hopefully when it gets 158 00:08:38,118 --> 00:08:41,958 Speaker 1: to be more amplified, you'd be able to rely on experience. 159 00:08:41,998 --> 00:08:44,558 Speaker 1: You try to do it the right way. Yeah, that's interesting. 160 00:08:44,598 --> 00:08:47,678 Speaker 1: I mean he Ali Marmold did take Harrison Bader off 161 00:08:47,678 --> 00:08:49,878 Speaker 1: the field in a game last year where he thought 162 00:08:49,998 --> 00:08:53,118 Speaker 1: he was not running out of flyball. Obviously, as you mentioned, 163 00:08:53,118 --> 00:08:58,038 Speaker 1: that becomes obvious that the player is being disciplined. Oh yeah, 164 00:08:58,198 --> 00:09:01,038 Speaker 1: it was. It sounds like you almost agree here with 165 00:09:01,118 --> 00:09:05,878 Speaker 1: O'Neil after the game, who said, these conversations talking about 166 00:09:05,918 --> 00:09:09,198 Speaker 1: the one with his manager definitely could have been had 167 00:09:09,398 --> 00:09:12,598 Speaker 1: in house and not gotten out on the loose like 168 00:09:12,678 --> 00:09:16,598 Speaker 1: they have. Should have been handled a little differently in 169 00:09:16,638 --> 00:09:19,878 Speaker 1: my opinion. I mean, he's essentially calling out as manager, 170 00:09:19,958 --> 00:09:23,478 Speaker 1: Joe for making this thing public. Now I have a 171 00:09:23,518 --> 00:09:27,078 Speaker 1: problem with that because now you're calling out your manager 172 00:09:27,238 --> 00:09:29,798 Speaker 1: for calling you out, so you're doing the same thing 173 00:09:30,558 --> 00:09:34,238 Speaker 1: I saw. I'm not really buying that. But this gets 174 00:09:34,238 --> 00:09:36,638 Speaker 1: back to I think, and I'm curious your take on this, 175 00:09:36,798 --> 00:09:41,758 Speaker 1: Joe dealing with today's player, right. I mean, I've talked 176 00:09:41,758 --> 00:09:46,038 Speaker 1: to Dusty Baker about this. You cannot motivate players these 177 00:09:46,158 --> 00:09:49,438 Speaker 1: days with negative motivation, and that used to be the 178 00:09:49,478 --> 00:09:52,118 Speaker 1: case where you could get under a player's skin. I'm 179 00:09:52,118 --> 00:09:57,518 Speaker 1: talking publicly, but players do not respond to that these days. 180 00:09:57,678 --> 00:10:01,878 Speaker 1: I remember Joe Girardi just very softly mentioned after a 181 00:10:01,878 --> 00:10:05,678 Speaker 1: game in which Gary Sanche behind the plate just was 182 00:10:05,678 --> 00:10:09,318 Speaker 1: a little sloppy receiving the baseball, said he needs to 183 00:10:09,318 --> 00:10:12,598 Speaker 1: be better. That was it, and he almost lost the 184 00:10:12,718 --> 00:10:15,518 Speaker 1: player who really went into his shell because he thought 185 00:10:15,558 --> 00:10:19,238 Speaker 1: he was being criticized publicly, so be careful with today's player. 186 00:10:19,238 --> 00:10:20,998 Speaker 1: I'm looking at the Cardinals off to a three and 187 00:10:21,038 --> 00:10:24,078 Speaker 1: seven start. I'm not sure I want to connect the dots, 188 00:10:24,798 --> 00:10:26,798 Speaker 1: but in Mighty of the water is up a little 189 00:10:26,798 --> 00:10:29,758 Speaker 1: bit and it can have ramifications. So I want to 190 00:10:29,758 --> 00:10:33,318 Speaker 1: get your take now. And if you thought that some 191 00:10:33,398 --> 00:10:36,398 Speaker 1: of the old school methods you saw around, whether it 192 00:10:36,438 --> 00:10:38,958 Speaker 1: was Gene Mark or some other guys who had carte 193 00:10:38,958 --> 00:10:43,158 Speaker 1: blanche to be disciplinarians, whether you saw it change in 194 00:10:43,238 --> 00:10:46,558 Speaker 1: the course of your managing career and adapted to that, well, 195 00:10:47,038 --> 00:10:48,758 Speaker 1: just to expand on that a little bit too, I like. 196 00:10:48,838 --> 00:10:52,278 Speaker 1: That's why I do like the veteran players really stepping 197 00:10:52,278 --> 00:10:55,078 Speaker 1: in and that particular moment. The one thing I try 198 00:10:55,118 --> 00:10:57,478 Speaker 1: to establish on all the teams is that I had 199 00:10:57,518 --> 00:11:00,198 Speaker 1: that rule respect ninety That was my foundation. Is named 200 00:11:00,198 --> 00:11:03,198 Speaker 1: that for ninety feet between home plate at first space. 201 00:11:03,238 --> 00:11:06,838 Speaker 1: I wanted players to always respect that ninety feet and 202 00:11:06,918 --> 00:11:08,638 Speaker 1: if we did that, that's the only rule you had. 203 00:11:08,678 --> 00:11:10,318 Speaker 1: I don't have any rules, so I just asked the 204 00:11:10,438 --> 00:11:12,998 Speaker 1: position players to do that and ask the pitchers to 205 00:11:12,998 --> 00:11:16,918 Speaker 1: work on their defense. Those are my rules, and the 206 00:11:16,918 --> 00:11:20,078 Speaker 1: best teams that I've had or run where that when 207 00:11:20,198 --> 00:11:25,078 Speaker 1: that rule was breached, that the veteran player would intervene 208 00:11:25,398 --> 00:11:27,798 Speaker 1: and say something to the player in advance of me, 209 00:11:28,518 --> 00:11:31,238 Speaker 1: and sometimes the coach David Martinez was really good. Is 210 00:11:31,318 --> 00:11:34,398 Speaker 1: that as a bench coach, where the intervention would occur 211 00:11:34,718 --> 00:11:37,838 Speaker 1: and then everything would subside without having to make it 212 00:11:38,278 --> 00:11:41,358 Speaker 1: so obvious. And again, like we were talking about, I 213 00:11:41,398 --> 00:11:44,078 Speaker 1: think we've mentioned this in the past too. Sometimes when 214 00:11:44,118 --> 00:11:46,718 Speaker 1: you want to be publicly critical, you're protecting yourself too. 215 00:11:47,078 --> 00:11:50,918 Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's my perspective on things, where if 216 00:11:50,958 --> 00:11:53,038 Speaker 1: I have to go out there and be critical of 217 00:11:53,078 --> 00:11:56,318 Speaker 1: a player or coach somebody within my group, maybe sometimes 218 00:11:56,318 --> 00:11:59,398 Speaker 1: I'm trying to protect myself. And I think because the 219 00:11:59,398 --> 00:12:02,638 Speaker 1: public does like to taste a pound of flesh on occasion. 220 00:12:02,758 --> 00:12:05,358 Speaker 1: So those or these are all the different thoughts that 221 00:12:05,398 --> 00:12:07,918 Speaker 1: I have. I understand what you're saying. I'm just bringing 222 00:12:07,958 --> 00:12:11,398 Speaker 1: it up right first, of course Steinbrenner and and and 223 00:12:11,478 --> 00:12:17,838 Speaker 1: Billy Martin, especially Jean. But I'm always I was always 224 00:12:17,838 --> 00:12:20,478 Speaker 1: wary of that. I've always was. That was part of 225 00:12:20,478 --> 00:12:23,438 Speaker 1: my valuation. Who's who, what's going on here, who's protecting who? 226 00:12:23,518 --> 00:12:27,518 Speaker 1: And is it really is it really necessary? To make 227 00:12:27,518 --> 00:12:30,158 Speaker 1: your point or are you trying to show everybody that 228 00:12:30,198 --> 00:12:32,438 Speaker 1: I'm kind of a tough guy. I'm going to stand 229 00:12:32,518 --> 00:12:34,398 Speaker 1: my ground. I'm not going to take this from anybody 230 00:12:34,438 --> 00:12:37,998 Speaker 1: because everybody wants this pound of flesh. So there's there's 231 00:12:38,038 --> 00:12:40,038 Speaker 1: there's a lot to it. Man. It's not as simple 232 00:12:40,038 --> 00:12:42,998 Speaker 1: as it sounds. And for me, that's why I've always 233 00:12:42,998 --> 00:12:45,278 Speaker 1: tried to dissect it as much as I could and 234 00:12:45,358 --> 00:12:48,558 Speaker 1: rely on my past. Whether it was pulling James Randall 235 00:12:49,118 --> 00:12:50,998 Speaker 1: on a pop up in Middland on a windy day 236 00:12:50,998 --> 00:12:53,678 Speaker 1: where the ball was found in blue Back Fair, or 237 00:12:53,798 --> 00:12:56,998 Speaker 1: the time with the know BJ just chopping the ball 238 00:12:56,998 --> 00:12:58,758 Speaker 1: back to the Mount of Jog in the first space. 239 00:12:58,838 --> 00:13:02,158 Speaker 1: Even Garrett Anderson with TC back in a Terry Collins 240 00:13:02,158 --> 00:13:07,358 Speaker 1: in Baltimore, same thing happened there. Everyone's different, But if 241 00:13:07,358 --> 00:13:11,878 Speaker 1: it could be averted through internal means, I prefer that way. Well, Joe, 242 00:13:11,918 --> 00:13:14,558 Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, Kevin. Baseball in the eighties and nineties, 243 00:13:15,478 --> 00:13:18,998 Speaker 1: managers went after players, you know, whether from Billy Martin 244 00:13:19,238 --> 00:13:24,438 Speaker 1: to Whatdy Herzog, Dallas Green, George Steinbran or the Yankees 245 00:13:24,518 --> 00:13:27,158 Speaker 1: owner one set of Dave Righetti after he blew a save. 246 00:13:27,238 --> 00:13:29,198 Speaker 1: He should walk out of the ballpark with the hot 247 00:13:29,198 --> 00:13:33,678 Speaker 1: dog venders. He should be so embarrassed Dallas Green. The 248 00:13:33,718 --> 00:13:37,238 Speaker 1: Mets did cartwheels when they fired Dallas Green. Dallas would 249 00:13:37,238 --> 00:13:40,638 Speaker 1: take on anybody, Dallas. Listen to this quote from Dwight 250 00:13:40,678 --> 00:13:44,398 Speaker 1: Gooden with the Mets fired Dallas Green. I'm surprised he 251 00:13:44,518 --> 00:13:47,038 Speaker 1: lasted that long. I have no respect for him as 252 00:13:47,078 --> 00:13:49,958 Speaker 1: a manager or a person. When you did well, he 253 00:13:49,998 --> 00:13:52,598 Speaker 1: was your best friend. When you struggled, he was against you. 254 00:13:52,718 --> 00:13:55,398 Speaker 1: It was never his fault. Nothing was ever his fault. 255 00:13:56,078 --> 00:13:59,398 Speaker 1: He had an open door policy until he started ripping you. 256 00:14:00,078 --> 00:14:01,638 Speaker 1: But if he closed it, if you tried to go 257 00:14:01,718 --> 00:14:05,318 Speaker 1: in there and confront him, know that happened a lot. 258 00:14:06,398 --> 00:14:10,038 Speaker 1: It wasn't unusual for managers to take on players publicly 259 00:14:10,078 --> 00:14:13,958 Speaker 1: as a way to motivate them, right, And I'd like 260 00:14:14,038 --> 00:14:17,718 Speaker 1: to think what Ali Marmole did with Tyler O'Neill was 261 00:14:17,758 --> 00:14:20,078 Speaker 1: the right thing to do if you've got a standard 262 00:14:20,238 --> 00:14:23,998 Speaker 1: and he agreed, or at least Marmo's opinion, he thought 263 00:14:23,998 --> 00:14:27,598 Speaker 1: it was unacceptable the way his player ran. I'd like 264 00:14:27,678 --> 00:14:29,358 Speaker 1: to think you should be able to call him out 265 00:14:29,398 --> 00:14:31,998 Speaker 1: on that. You know, hustling is the easiest thing to do. 266 00:14:32,038 --> 00:14:37,358 Speaker 1: It takes no talent. But I just think in today's game, Joe, 267 00:14:37,398 --> 00:14:39,998 Speaker 1: there are ramifications for that. So if you're going to 268 00:14:40,038 --> 00:14:42,318 Speaker 1: do that as a manager, even if you think the 269 00:14:42,398 --> 00:14:44,558 Speaker 1: player was out of line, you want to call him, 270 00:14:44,638 --> 00:14:48,718 Speaker 1: call him out publicly and defend your standard. That's fine, 271 00:14:49,238 --> 00:14:52,718 Speaker 1: but I think you better understand there could be a 272 00:14:52,798 --> 00:14:55,278 Speaker 1: major downside to that. And I'm not sure that you 273 00:14:55,318 --> 00:14:58,598 Speaker 1: know that issue is buried and over with in Saint 274 00:14:58,638 --> 00:15:02,038 Speaker 1: Louis because of that. Listen, on this subject of base running, 275 00:15:02,078 --> 00:15:05,038 Speaker 1: there's there's something that's really he bothered me, Joe, and 276 00:15:05,078 --> 00:15:08,358 Speaker 1: I gotta ask you about this one play that has 277 00:15:08,398 --> 00:15:11,398 Speaker 1: become almost standard in baseball, and I hate it. I'll 278 00:15:11,398 --> 00:15:24,278 Speaker 1: explain that when we get back in a minute. Welcome 279 00:15:24,318 --> 00:15:27,918 Speaker 1: back to the Book of Joe podcast. Base Running. Now, 280 00:15:28,278 --> 00:15:30,518 Speaker 1: let me start with the good news, Joe. If you've 281 00:15:30,558 --> 00:15:33,958 Speaker 1: been watching these games this year, the base running has 282 00:15:33,958 --> 00:15:37,918 Speaker 1: been great. The percentage of guys taking the extra base 283 00:15:37,998 --> 00:15:40,398 Speaker 1: has jumped this year from forty one to forty four. 284 00:15:42,398 --> 00:15:44,358 Speaker 1: I think there's a new dynamic in the game, and 285 00:15:44,438 --> 00:15:46,558 Speaker 1: that is the stolen bases back in play. And I 286 00:15:46,558 --> 00:15:50,158 Speaker 1: think that is influencing base running overall. Where guys are 287 00:15:50,158 --> 00:15:53,638 Speaker 1: in go mode, they're a little more aggressive. The Guardians, 288 00:15:53,678 --> 00:15:57,038 Speaker 1: the Diamondbacks, the Orioles, and the White Sox together a 289 00:15:57,998 --> 00:16:01,558 Speaker 1: most aggressive team on the bases. They start out sixty 290 00:16:01,638 --> 00:16:06,318 Speaker 1: five stolen bases and sixty nine attempts, and I think 291 00:16:06,358 --> 00:16:10,158 Speaker 1: as the stolen base percentage rate remains over eighty percent, 292 00:16:11,278 --> 00:16:15,438 Speaker 1: it's encouraging teams to run more. And I think it's 293 00:16:15,438 --> 00:16:19,238 Speaker 1: a good thing. And I don't know what you think 294 00:16:19,398 --> 00:16:22,158 Speaker 1: watching these games, Joe, but it does seem like the 295 00:16:22,198 --> 00:16:26,158 Speaker 1: stolen bases back and play. There's only been one runner 296 00:16:26,238 --> 00:16:28,958 Speaker 1: thrown out at third base so far this season. One 297 00:16:29,318 --> 00:16:32,958 Speaker 1: that's it. So I don't know if you think it's 298 00:16:33,038 --> 00:16:36,038 Speaker 1: too easy to steal pass these days, but I gotta 299 00:16:36,078 --> 00:16:39,238 Speaker 1: believe the fans have to be enjoying this game they're watching. Yeah, 300 00:16:39,238 --> 00:16:41,278 Speaker 1: I would like to. I would just wait to see 301 00:16:41,318 --> 00:16:43,318 Speaker 1: the entire season because some of those teams you mentioned 302 00:16:43,358 --> 00:16:45,718 Speaker 1: have always, like Davy with the National Stabies like to 303 00:16:45,758 --> 00:16:48,598 Speaker 1: run a period, even in the past, and some of 304 00:16:48,638 --> 00:16:51,478 Speaker 1: those other teams are kind of built, they're not afraid 305 00:16:51,518 --> 00:16:54,478 Speaker 1: to run. I think sometimes and where the teams said 306 00:16:54,518 --> 00:16:57,278 Speaker 1: the White Sox, the Nationals. Who are the other teams, Well, 307 00:16:57,318 --> 00:17:00,998 Speaker 1: the Diamondbacks have been I've seen them running the Dodgers 308 00:17:01,038 --> 00:17:02,958 Speaker 1: and the Padres off the field. Yeah, they have so 309 00:17:03,038 --> 00:17:05,638 Speaker 1: much teams speed, Tory Lavallo is, it's just kind of loose, 310 00:17:05,678 --> 00:17:08,038 Speaker 1: and I love the way they're playing. Yeah, and that's 311 00:17:08,078 --> 00:17:10,278 Speaker 1: that's it. That's uh. I think you're going to see 312 00:17:10,318 --> 00:17:12,878 Speaker 1: it in pockets, like different teams, how they're built, They're 313 00:17:12,918 --> 00:17:14,838 Speaker 1: willing to try those different things. I think it's great 314 00:17:14,878 --> 00:17:16,958 Speaker 1: because when I manage the raise, we were kind of 315 00:17:17,398 --> 00:17:19,798 Speaker 1: we were not kind of like that. We were exactly 316 00:17:19,838 --> 00:17:21,198 Speaker 1: like that. I think back in the day with the 317 00:17:21,198 --> 00:17:23,078 Speaker 1: Angels in the early two thousands, that's what we were like. 318 00:17:23,718 --> 00:17:26,638 Speaker 1: And then it's just a matter of the your personnel 319 00:17:26,678 --> 00:17:28,878 Speaker 1: and your team and how it's built and which your 320 00:17:28,918 --> 00:17:30,798 Speaker 1: guys are capable of doing. And then again as the 321 00:17:30,838 --> 00:17:34,878 Speaker 1: seasons in progress, body starts taking beat and I just 322 00:17:34,998 --> 00:17:37,238 Speaker 1: it's everybody's like fresh right now. So I would just 323 00:17:37,318 --> 00:17:39,958 Speaker 1: wait on that a little bit. But I do like 324 00:17:40,118 --> 00:17:42,598 Speaker 1: the emphasis there because I love that game. I love 325 00:17:42,638 --> 00:17:45,478 Speaker 1: the speed game. I love putting pressure on the defense, 326 00:17:45,598 --> 00:17:49,038 Speaker 1: make them execute so that they execute themselves. That's a 327 00:17:49,038 --> 00:17:51,998 Speaker 1: line from my high school baseball coach. All of that stuff. 328 00:17:52,158 --> 00:17:55,318 Speaker 1: I love that it is in play. I'm still trying 329 00:17:55,358 --> 00:17:57,718 Speaker 1: to determine to be watching these games or the pitchers 330 00:17:58,358 --> 00:18:00,878 Speaker 1: making a good effort to really be quicker to the play. 331 00:18:01,838 --> 00:18:03,758 Speaker 1: These are the things I still want to see how 332 00:18:03,758 --> 00:18:06,038 Speaker 1: it plays out. And again I talked to Think we 333 00:18:06,038 --> 00:18:08,838 Speaker 1: talked about it last week. It's just again organizationally, the 334 00:18:09,078 --> 00:18:11,918 Speaker 1: analytical departments. Do we really need to spend all this 335 00:18:12,078 --> 00:18:15,878 Speaker 1: time on holding runners and trying to keep them from 336 00:18:15,918 --> 00:18:18,718 Speaker 1: stone basis or is it more in our favor to 337 00:18:18,918 --> 00:18:20,798 Speaker 1: really try to focus on the pitch and make the 338 00:18:20,838 --> 00:18:24,918 Speaker 1: pitch of a situation location we're looking for what it's 339 00:18:24,918 --> 00:18:27,078 Speaker 1: almost like, you know, the way the catcher's catch today 340 00:18:27,118 --> 00:18:29,678 Speaker 1: on one knee and just trying to steal strikes, and 341 00:18:29,678 --> 00:18:32,678 Speaker 1: it's not technically as solid as it had been in 342 00:18:32,678 --> 00:18:35,078 Speaker 1: the past. Although I give them credit, they are blocking 343 00:18:35,118 --> 00:18:38,198 Speaker 1: the ball well too. It seems so all these things 344 00:18:38,198 --> 00:18:41,478 Speaker 1: aren't related. I think they all need time. And the 345 00:18:41,558 --> 00:18:43,998 Speaker 1: last point about the stone base I'm curious, like bodies 346 00:18:44,158 --> 00:18:47,038 Speaker 1: taking a beating during the course of the year, at 347 00:18:47,078 --> 00:18:48,958 Speaker 1: what point do guys back off. Are they going to 348 00:18:49,038 --> 00:18:52,758 Speaker 1: be able to maintain this level of excitement stealing basis 349 00:18:52,758 --> 00:18:55,438 Speaker 1: over the course of the year. And again, I was 350 00:18:55,438 --> 00:18:57,118 Speaker 1: going to ask you this question. I was wondering if 351 00:18:57,118 --> 00:19:01,318 Speaker 1: anybody's keeping track unload times times to the play from 352 00:19:01,358 --> 00:19:03,478 Speaker 1: pitcher to catcher. I'd be curious if there's been any 353 00:19:05,078 --> 00:19:07,758 Speaker 1: upsurge uptick in that regards to quicker times, which its 354 00:19:07,798 --> 00:19:11,238 Speaker 1: been status quo as it actually evolved. I'm just I 355 00:19:11,358 --> 00:19:14,078 Speaker 1: was just curis about that too. Yeah, as you know, 356 00:19:14,158 --> 00:19:16,558 Speaker 1: it's it's almost the math equation. If you've got a 357 00:19:16,558 --> 00:19:18,638 Speaker 1: guy in the mound who's one point three to home plate, 358 00:19:18,918 --> 00:19:21,558 Speaker 1: you're gonna go. I mean, you're probably not going to 359 00:19:21,638 --> 00:19:24,678 Speaker 1: go if you get anything one four, one five. For sure, 360 00:19:24,678 --> 00:19:27,318 Speaker 1: you're running in today's game, especially at the limit on pickoffs. 361 00:19:27,358 --> 00:19:29,998 Speaker 1: You know, I'll watch a guy like Taiwan Walker, who's 362 00:19:29,998 --> 00:19:32,758 Speaker 1: got he's a great athlete, very quick feet. Part of 363 00:19:32,838 --> 00:19:34,998 Speaker 1: his game and defending the running game is throwing over 364 00:19:34,998 --> 00:19:38,118 Speaker 1: there a lot. You're limited now to two throws per 365 00:19:38,118 --> 00:19:41,958 Speaker 1: plate appearance, and once you use that first one, you're 366 00:19:41,958 --> 00:19:45,558 Speaker 1: almost signaling to the runner. You know, you can basically 367 00:19:45,598 --> 00:19:47,438 Speaker 1: time them at that point. Not too many guys are 368 00:19:47,438 --> 00:19:50,158 Speaker 1: going to use their two throws on back to backs, 369 00:19:50,238 --> 00:19:54,198 Speaker 1: So it's a little cat and mouse figuring out, you know, 370 00:19:54,278 --> 00:19:57,638 Speaker 1: what's going to happen in terms of withholding that second 371 00:19:57,678 --> 00:20:00,878 Speaker 1: pickoff try and I think what I'm seeing this was 372 00:20:00,918 --> 00:20:03,078 Speaker 1: happening in the minor leagues. Pitchers come to their set 373 00:20:03,158 --> 00:20:06,838 Speaker 1: positions sooner on the pitch clock. That way, you can 374 00:20:06,918 --> 00:20:09,118 Speaker 1: freeze the batter and the runner by holding the ball 375 00:20:09,158 --> 00:20:11,278 Speaker 1: for a long period of time. If you get set late, 376 00:20:11,358 --> 00:20:13,838 Speaker 1: I think you're in trouble. So the smart thing to 377 00:20:13,838 --> 00:20:16,278 Speaker 1: do as a pitcher is to get yourself set early. 378 00:20:16,358 --> 00:20:19,398 Speaker 1: What's interesting is, contrary to what you might think, this 379 00:20:19,478 --> 00:20:23,078 Speaker 1: is counterintuitive. I looked at the rate of pickoffs per game. 380 00:20:23,918 --> 00:20:27,078 Speaker 1: That's actually slightly up, even with a limit on the 381 00:20:27,158 --> 00:20:28,958 Speaker 1: number of times you throw over. I think what we've 382 00:20:28,958 --> 00:20:32,158 Speaker 1: done is we've got rid of that that courtesy throw over. 383 00:20:32,598 --> 00:20:35,478 Speaker 1: Hey I know you're there, or sometimes the pitchers you 384 00:20:35,518 --> 00:20:37,478 Speaker 1: know not, so it doesn't have the conviction of the 385 00:20:37,478 --> 00:20:39,878 Speaker 1: pitch and will throw over just kind of reset the mind. 386 00:20:40,958 --> 00:20:45,558 Speaker 1: So fewer throwovers, but more actual pickoffs per game. That 387 00:20:45,958 --> 00:20:48,318 Speaker 1: I found that interesting so far. I'm with you, though, Joe, 388 00:20:48,358 --> 00:20:49,998 Speaker 1: I think we gotta let this thing. Breathe a little 389 00:20:50,038 --> 00:20:51,878 Speaker 1: bit and see how it plays out. But I think 390 00:20:51,918 --> 00:20:56,038 Speaker 1: the stolen base is definitely more in play. Now, how 391 00:20:56,078 --> 00:21:00,558 Speaker 1: about pitchouts and catcher's pickoffs at first base? It's there 392 00:21:00,558 --> 00:21:03,758 Speaker 1: any kind of tracking done on that? Yeah, it's interesting. 393 00:21:03,758 --> 00:21:06,078 Speaker 1: I was just talking to Buckshaw Walter about that. I 394 00:21:06,078 --> 00:21:08,518 Speaker 1: think the back pick you're seeing more of that. There's 395 00:21:08,558 --> 00:21:11,998 Speaker 1: certainly no limits on the times that catchers can throw 396 00:21:12,038 --> 00:21:15,398 Speaker 1: to first base. There are for pitchers pitch outs. You're 397 00:21:15,438 --> 00:21:18,678 Speaker 1: still not seeing them. You're seeing still not seeing the 398 00:21:18,678 --> 00:21:21,798 Speaker 1: called pitchouts. Now, as you know, there's some you know, 399 00:21:21,918 --> 00:21:26,838 Speaker 1: high fastballs thrown that basically are glorified pitchouts, right, But 400 00:21:26,998 --> 00:21:29,998 Speaker 1: the traditional pitchout, No, that hasn't come back yet. And 401 00:21:30,038 --> 00:21:31,758 Speaker 1: I think that goes back to some of the analytics 402 00:21:31,878 --> 00:21:33,678 Speaker 1: things you're talking about, Joe, where you don't want to 403 00:21:33,678 --> 00:21:36,398 Speaker 1: lose count leverage on the assumption the guy's going to 404 00:21:36,438 --> 00:21:39,318 Speaker 1: steal a base. I think the focus is still more 405 00:21:39,438 --> 00:21:42,438 Speaker 1: on batter and count leveraged, and it is defending the 406 00:21:42,478 --> 00:21:45,038 Speaker 1: stolen base. I just tell you're thinking it all the 407 00:21:45,038 --> 00:21:47,318 Speaker 1: way through us. We're speaking to me as a catcher. 408 00:21:47,918 --> 00:21:50,118 Speaker 1: If my pitcher is thrown over twice already and he 409 00:21:50,158 --> 00:21:52,478 Speaker 1: can't go over again. That would be the pitch I 410 00:21:52,478 --> 00:21:54,358 Speaker 1: would really be looking to throw or pick off at 411 00:21:54,358 --> 00:21:57,118 Speaker 1: first base. I mean, he would think after two throwers, 412 00:21:57,118 --> 00:21:59,918 Speaker 1: that's when the runner's gonna obviously want togo if he's 413 00:21:59,918 --> 00:22:01,958 Speaker 1: gonna go and just say he gets out there a 414 00:22:01,958 --> 00:22:03,878 Speaker 1: little bit, does not time it right and he gets 415 00:22:04,038 --> 00:22:05,678 Speaker 1: caught out in no man's land. That might be the 416 00:22:05,878 --> 00:22:08,958 Speaker 1: more optimal time for catchers to look in backpick at 417 00:22:08,998 --> 00:22:11,638 Speaker 1: first space. I mean, there's so many times I've like 418 00:22:11,718 --> 00:22:14,958 Speaker 1: winners on first and second backpicking at first base, keeping 419 00:22:14,958 --> 00:22:17,478 Speaker 1: double plays in order. There's all these things have gone 420 00:22:17,518 --> 00:22:20,278 Speaker 1: like that by the wayside a bit, But again I 421 00:22:20,278 --> 00:22:21,998 Speaker 1: would have if I was in the dugout. These are 422 00:22:21,998 --> 00:22:24,838 Speaker 1: the kind of things I'd be looking at if after 423 00:22:24,958 --> 00:22:28,598 Speaker 1: my two pickoff attempts by my pitcher, what does that 424 00:22:28,718 --> 00:22:30,758 Speaker 1: lead look like based on that runner at first base? 425 00:22:30,918 --> 00:22:34,118 Speaker 1: And is there and this is something could actually scout. 426 00:22:34,158 --> 00:22:36,158 Speaker 1: Does this guy sometimes get caught in no man's land 427 00:22:36,198 --> 00:22:38,918 Speaker 1: at that point because he gets ambivalent whether I want 428 00:22:38,918 --> 00:22:40,678 Speaker 1: to go or not? These are the these are the 429 00:22:40,718 --> 00:22:43,838 Speaker 1: optimal times you may want to look to do things 430 00:22:43,878 --> 00:22:48,198 Speaker 1: like this. So pitchouts, catcher's picks and specifically when to 431 00:22:48,278 --> 00:22:50,878 Speaker 1: do that, and for me optimally also put the left 432 00:22:50,878 --> 00:22:53,158 Speaker 1: handed hitter up there and you can sneak behind him 433 00:22:53,198 --> 00:22:55,118 Speaker 1: and the runner gets kind of blocked by the hitter 434 00:22:55,158 --> 00:22:57,358 Speaker 1: with the catcher. So there's there's all these things that 435 00:22:57,358 --> 00:22:59,518 Speaker 1: are in play. And again, having not being in the 436 00:22:59,598 --> 00:23:03,158 Speaker 1: dugout and really seeing this real time right now, it's 437 00:23:03,198 --> 00:23:06,198 Speaker 1: hard for me to ascertain all of it. But at 438 00:23:06,198 --> 00:23:07,678 Speaker 1: the top of my head these would be kind of 439 00:23:07,718 --> 00:23:11,318 Speaker 1: interesting to me trying to establish step. But then you're like, again, 440 00:23:11,358 --> 00:23:13,558 Speaker 1: you're gonna be fighting your analytical department trying to get 441 00:23:13,598 --> 00:23:15,838 Speaker 1: some of the stunt all right. Now, the play that 442 00:23:15,878 --> 00:23:19,398 Speaker 1: I absolutely hate, Joe, it's first and third. There's two 443 00:23:19,398 --> 00:23:23,758 Speaker 1: strikes on the batter, there's two outs. It's become almost 444 00:23:23,798 --> 00:23:26,238 Speaker 1: standard procedure. The runner on first base is gonna run, 445 00:23:26,598 --> 00:23:29,318 Speaker 1: especially if you've got a left handed hitter up where 446 00:23:29,318 --> 00:23:31,918 Speaker 1: you see that third baseman is not really honoring the 447 00:23:31,998 --> 00:23:35,038 Speaker 1: lead of the guy on third base, teams are letting 448 00:23:35,078 --> 00:23:37,838 Speaker 1: that guy steal second base. Now there's some like the 449 00:23:37,878 --> 00:23:40,958 Speaker 1: Phillies with JT. Realmuto. They'll keep you honest and throw 450 00:23:41,078 --> 00:23:44,838 Speaker 1: through but I saw the Mets give luke Voit a 451 00:23:44,918 --> 00:23:48,278 Speaker 1: stolen base of second base. Luke Voit first and third, 452 00:23:48,318 --> 00:23:50,478 Speaker 1: two outs, two strikes. Next batter puts a double in 453 00:23:50,518 --> 00:23:53,318 Speaker 1: the gap, ties the game. He scores some second rather 454 00:23:53,318 --> 00:23:56,918 Speaker 1: than first. I gotta believe in today's game, you're the 455 00:23:56,918 --> 00:23:59,398 Speaker 1: major You're the major leagues. You can't play it like 456 00:23:59,478 --> 00:24:02,958 Speaker 1: Little league and give guys free bases. Why don't teams 457 00:24:03,078 --> 00:24:06,198 Speaker 1: defend first, the third, two out, two strikes, thrown base 458 00:24:06,318 --> 00:24:09,318 Speaker 1: more than they do. They're not even thrown through. I mean, 459 00:24:09,358 --> 00:24:11,358 Speaker 1: for me, it's it's time. What part of the game 460 00:24:11,358 --> 00:24:14,158 Speaker 1: we're talking about in regards to just let's just go 461 00:24:14,238 --> 00:24:16,398 Speaker 1: through my spring trainings right now, we would go to 462 00:24:16,438 --> 00:24:20,678 Speaker 1: the first and third situation, and I would talk about 463 00:24:20,758 --> 00:24:23,118 Speaker 1: early in the game, the situation you're talking about, let's 464 00:24:23,118 --> 00:24:25,278 Speaker 1: just just say two outs doesn't have to necessarily be 465 00:24:25,358 --> 00:24:28,278 Speaker 1: full count, but with two outs, if it's early in 466 00:24:28,318 --> 00:24:30,518 Speaker 1: the game, I want to stay out at a beginning, 467 00:24:30,598 --> 00:24:33,118 Speaker 1: I'm making my throw through. I'll take the out in 468 00:24:33,198 --> 00:24:35,398 Speaker 1: exchange for the potential that they might score a run. 469 00:24:35,918 --> 00:24:38,118 Speaker 1: I want the out, so I earlier in the game, 470 00:24:38,118 --> 00:24:40,238 Speaker 1: I'm more apt to want to make that throw later 471 00:24:40,238 --> 00:24:45,638 Speaker 1: in a game, tie game, or if they're up. If 472 00:24:45,638 --> 00:24:47,958 Speaker 1: it's a tie game, for sure, for me, they have 473 00:24:47,998 --> 00:24:49,798 Speaker 1: to earn that run. I'm not going to permit them 474 00:24:49,838 --> 00:24:52,198 Speaker 1: to steal that run. And then again, who's hitting, who's 475 00:24:52,238 --> 00:24:54,998 Speaker 1: on deck. All these things have to come into play, 476 00:24:55,038 --> 00:24:58,758 Speaker 1: like in the National League situation in the past, pitchers 477 00:24:58,798 --> 00:25:00,638 Speaker 1: coming up and the pitcher is going to be stay 478 00:25:00,678 --> 00:25:04,678 Speaker 1: in the game, a different story, completely potential for pinch 479 00:25:04,758 --> 00:25:08,158 Speaker 1: it or different thought process. All these things have to 480 00:25:08,198 --> 00:25:10,118 Speaker 1: be evaluated when you're going to throw or not throw, 481 00:25:10,238 --> 00:25:14,238 Speaker 1: but overarching component early in the game, get the ladder 482 00:25:14,278 --> 00:25:16,478 Speaker 1: part of the game, make them earn their out, and 483 00:25:16,518 --> 00:25:20,358 Speaker 1: then I try to evaluate all the other factors involved 484 00:25:20,398 --> 00:25:23,358 Speaker 1: in that moment in regards to whether I want to 485 00:25:23,358 --> 00:25:27,278 Speaker 1: throw through or not. So that's that's kind of like 486 00:25:27,318 --> 00:25:29,398 Speaker 1: the outline that I work from, and then you just 487 00:25:29,438 --> 00:25:33,198 Speaker 1: try to utilize the nuance that's part of in that 488 00:25:33,278 --> 00:25:35,958 Speaker 1: particular moment and trying to make the right decision. Yeah, 489 00:25:35,958 --> 00:25:38,158 Speaker 1: you know, listen, a lot of teams tell me that 490 00:25:38,198 --> 00:25:41,158 Speaker 1: they don't want the infielders vacating their position with two 491 00:25:41,198 --> 00:25:42,678 Speaker 1: strikes on the hit or doesn't have to be a 492 00:25:42,678 --> 00:25:45,918 Speaker 1: full count so they don't want the middle infielders moving 493 00:25:46,318 --> 00:25:48,478 Speaker 1: to open up a haul to cover the bag. So 494 00:25:48,638 --> 00:25:51,798 Speaker 1: they're going to hold their ground, give the base and 495 00:25:52,358 --> 00:25:54,318 Speaker 1: you know pitchers got two strikes on the hit or 496 00:25:54,398 --> 00:25:56,598 Speaker 1: you think you have the inning pretty much in hand. 497 00:25:56,758 --> 00:26:02,158 Speaker 1: But again, I think you need to show your opponent 498 00:26:02,478 --> 00:26:06,518 Speaker 1: that you will defend. That play creates some doubt. Never 499 00:26:06,798 --> 00:26:10,118 Speaker 1: allow the opponent to say, we have a free base here. 500 00:26:11,198 --> 00:26:13,478 Speaker 1: And I talked to Mike Schilt about this Shilty as 501 00:26:13,558 --> 00:26:16,038 Speaker 1: you know, a great fundamental baseball guy. He's with the 502 00:26:16,038 --> 00:26:19,838 Speaker 1: San Diego Padres now coaching third base, and he talked 503 00:26:19,878 --> 00:26:22,478 Speaker 1: about in his days in Saint Louis, he had Jose 504 00:26:22,558 --> 00:26:25,998 Speaker 1: A Kendo as one of his coaches, and Jose would 505 00:26:26,078 --> 00:26:30,638 Speaker 1: basically self scout the Cardinals team, and early in the season, 506 00:26:30,718 --> 00:26:34,558 Speaker 1: the Cardinals would run every single play, whether it was 507 00:26:34,638 --> 00:26:38,118 Speaker 1: first and third, whether it was safety squeeze, suicide squeeze, 508 00:26:38,158 --> 00:26:40,958 Speaker 1: whatever it was. They might not do it the rest 509 00:26:40,958 --> 00:26:44,398 Speaker 1: of the year, but they know other teams are writing 510 00:26:44,438 --> 00:26:47,158 Speaker 1: down everything that they do, and it's almost like you 511 00:26:47,238 --> 00:26:50,878 Speaker 1: need to show your playbook early in the season so 512 00:26:50,918 --> 00:26:54,038 Speaker 1: that other teams check that box to say we need 513 00:26:54,078 --> 00:26:56,758 Speaker 1: to defend this play because the Cardinals will run it 514 00:26:57,078 --> 00:27:00,358 Speaker 1: if they never throw first and third. Let's making it 515 00:27:00,478 --> 00:27:04,478 Speaker 1: too easy for the opponent. So I like that idea. Job. 516 00:27:04,518 --> 00:27:07,078 Speaker 1: I'm sure if you did this with your clouds, but 517 00:27:07,318 --> 00:27:11,718 Speaker 1: early in the season especially established that everything is on 518 00:27:11,718 --> 00:27:13,438 Speaker 1: the table. Yeah, you want to put this, you want 519 00:27:13,438 --> 00:27:15,358 Speaker 1: to plant the seat of doubt like like just as 520 00:27:15,398 --> 00:27:17,398 Speaker 1: I talked about with the pitch hut. You know, I'm 521 00:27:17,438 --> 00:27:20,318 Speaker 1: surprised that that's not been popped in there a little 522 00:27:20,318 --> 00:27:23,038 Speaker 1: bit more. And you know, if you get a picture 523 00:27:23,078 --> 00:27:26,318 Speaker 1: with really good command, what's wrong with taking a shot 524 00:27:25,958 --> 00:27:28,678 Speaker 1: in a real runners count? Let just say two one count. 525 00:27:28,718 --> 00:27:30,678 Speaker 1: I said, talk to Kyle Hendricks about this, because he's 526 00:27:30,678 --> 00:27:33,678 Speaker 1: such a command guy and he throws ground balls. I said, listen, 527 00:27:33,798 --> 00:27:35,238 Speaker 1: if we want to take a shot here on a 528 00:27:35,238 --> 00:27:37,358 Speaker 1: pitchhout on a two one count and I'm wrong, is 529 00:27:37,398 --> 00:27:38,798 Speaker 1: that going to blow you up? Is that going to 530 00:27:39,838 --> 00:27:42,158 Speaker 1: you know, make smoke come out of your ears? He said, no, 531 00:27:42,318 --> 00:27:45,078 Speaker 1: go go for it. Man. So if you're going to 532 00:27:45,158 --> 00:27:46,918 Speaker 1: do things like that again, I would it would be 533 00:27:47,038 --> 00:27:48,958 Speaker 1: specific picture as guys that can handle, the guys that 534 00:27:49,038 --> 00:27:51,718 Speaker 1: got the command, Guys that are not going to get 535 00:27:51,718 --> 00:27:54,798 Speaker 1: all out of control. If you are wrong. Of course, 536 00:27:54,838 --> 00:27:57,558 Speaker 1: everybody loves and you're right, but when you're wrong, everybody 537 00:27:57,558 --> 00:28:00,238 Speaker 1: loses their mind. So these are the kind of things 538 00:28:00,278 --> 00:28:02,358 Speaker 1: I would talk about in events. I've talked to you 539 00:28:02,358 --> 00:28:04,358 Speaker 1: about this too in the Texas League. This whether in 540 00:28:04,438 --> 00:28:08,278 Speaker 1: this play five and six game series. So if you're 541 00:28:08,278 --> 00:28:10,678 Speaker 1: playing a passo five or six games in a row, 542 00:28:11,278 --> 00:28:12,958 Speaker 1: and they could run a little bit, they're going to 543 00:28:12,998 --> 00:28:15,038 Speaker 1: see me pitch out in that first game. They're going 544 00:28:15,078 --> 00:28:17,438 Speaker 1: to see some pitchouts, and I would tell my pitcher listen, 545 00:28:17,838 --> 00:28:21,038 Speaker 1: I might be wrong, don't cry, don't look in the dugout. 546 00:28:21,358 --> 00:28:23,438 Speaker 1: It's just the ball. But I want the other team 547 00:28:23,478 --> 00:28:25,638 Speaker 1: to know that we will do this, which may prevent 548 00:28:25,718 --> 00:28:28,638 Speaker 1: them from doing it in the game in a situation 549 00:28:29,158 --> 00:28:31,758 Speaker 1: that may benefit us. Will never know because they didn't run, 550 00:28:31,798 --> 00:28:33,598 Speaker 1: will never know that it benefited us or not, but 551 00:28:33,638 --> 00:28:36,718 Speaker 1: it did. So if you could, ever, or whenever, you 552 00:28:36,798 --> 00:28:38,878 Speaker 1: can plant the seed of doubt in the other team's 553 00:28:38,918 --> 00:28:44,118 Speaker 1: mind based on something you might do, always a viable resource. Well, 554 00:28:44,158 --> 00:28:46,118 Speaker 1: I love it that we're talking about this stuff, Joe, 555 00:28:46,318 --> 00:28:49,078 Speaker 1: because these kind of nuances are coming back to the 556 00:28:49,078 --> 00:28:51,558 Speaker 1: game and they're the kind of nuances that you know, 557 00:28:51,638 --> 00:28:56,118 Speaker 1: this you can only understand and address in real time 558 00:28:56,278 --> 00:28:59,318 Speaker 1: in the heat of the moment. This is nothing that scripted, right. 559 00:28:59,358 --> 00:29:01,998 Speaker 1: This is about your ability to read the opponent, read 560 00:29:02,038 --> 00:29:05,758 Speaker 1: the situation, read the base runner. I just love that 561 00:29:05,798 --> 00:29:09,158 Speaker 1: the game now is coming back to that where it's 562 00:29:09,558 --> 00:29:11,838 Speaker 1: basically in the hands of the people who are wearing 563 00:29:11,838 --> 00:29:14,678 Speaker 1: the uniform. And I think that's a cool thing. Well, 564 00:29:14,678 --> 00:29:16,438 Speaker 1: you have to you have to have some forward knowledge 565 00:29:16,478 --> 00:29:18,358 Speaker 1: of that too. The point is, like I mean, honestly, 566 00:29:18,558 --> 00:29:21,478 Speaker 1: it's not everybody knows has to feel for this in 567 00:29:21,518 --> 00:29:25,318 Speaker 1: the dugout. They don't. They don't all have the radar. 568 00:29:25,478 --> 00:29:27,918 Speaker 1: You know, their satellite dishes are not pointing in the 569 00:29:27,998 --> 00:29:29,918 Speaker 1: right direction. It's something that they're not aware of. It's 570 00:29:29,958 --> 00:29:32,758 Speaker 1: not in the data bank, it's not in their random 571 00:29:32,838 --> 00:29:35,358 Speaker 1: access memory, it's not in the RAM. So you can't 572 00:29:35,438 --> 00:29:38,238 Speaker 1: go there if you don't have it there. You can't 573 00:29:38,238 --> 00:29:40,038 Speaker 1: wait for somebody to come up to you and poke 574 00:29:40,078 --> 00:29:41,358 Speaker 1: you in the side and say, hey, did you think 575 00:29:41,358 --> 00:29:44,478 Speaker 1: about this? That's not how that's That's what I'm talking about. 576 00:29:44,598 --> 00:29:47,878 Speaker 1: Experience and feel and wisdom does matter. You need to 577 00:29:47,958 --> 00:29:50,438 Speaker 1: be in advance of this. I mean, I think about 578 00:29:50,438 --> 00:29:53,638 Speaker 1: this stuff before they occurs, like but based on who's 579 00:29:53,638 --> 00:29:55,598 Speaker 1: coming up for them the next inning, this is what 580 00:29:55,678 --> 00:29:58,038 Speaker 1: to watch for. Watch with this account. You know, if 581 00:29:58,038 --> 00:30:00,838 Speaker 1: there's a little tip off from a runner whomever, a 582 00:30:00,918 --> 00:30:02,838 Speaker 1: coach on the side of the signs that he might 583 00:30:02,878 --> 00:30:06,078 Speaker 1: be given, You're thinking about this in advance of the 584 00:30:06,118 --> 00:30:09,918 Speaker 1: actual ending occurring, actual event happening. You have to it 585 00:30:09,998 --> 00:30:12,998 Speaker 1: just you just it's hard to randomly just pick a 586 00:30:13,078 --> 00:30:15,238 Speaker 1: thought out of the sky and say, oh, you know, 587 00:30:15,238 --> 00:30:17,878 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go right now. No, you have to be 588 00:30:18,038 --> 00:30:20,918 Speaker 1: well in advance of all of these things. And I'm 589 00:30:20,918 --> 00:30:23,158 Speaker 1: here to tell you, man, I don't know. I don't 590 00:30:23,198 --> 00:30:25,798 Speaker 1: know how I could have done all that I did, 591 00:30:25,878 --> 00:30:28,518 Speaker 1: do the stuff that I thought in a dugout had 592 00:30:28,558 --> 00:30:30,518 Speaker 1: I not had the experience that I had, whether it 593 00:30:30,558 --> 00:30:32,718 Speaker 1: was as a minor league manager or even as a 594 00:30:32,798 --> 00:30:36,678 Speaker 1: roping instructor where I'm always analyzing and critiquing, and even 595 00:30:36,718 --> 00:30:39,118 Speaker 1: as a bench coach on a major league level advising it, 596 00:30:39,198 --> 00:30:44,038 Speaker 1: whether it was Marcel or TC or soh. I mean, wow, 597 00:30:44,238 --> 00:30:47,358 Speaker 1: I just it's just so much going on in your head, 598 00:30:47,878 --> 00:30:50,678 Speaker 1: and people don't understand that and I'm here to tell you, man, 599 00:30:50,758 --> 00:30:52,718 Speaker 1: if you've not done it, A lot of the guys 600 00:30:52,718 --> 00:30:54,558 Speaker 1: that are managing now that have not done it before. 601 00:30:54,598 --> 00:30:59,398 Speaker 1: It's it's it's not necessarily part of the random access memory, 602 00:30:59,438 --> 00:31:01,918 Speaker 1: that moment, that click thing, that blinkeding that has to 603 00:31:01,918 --> 00:31:04,998 Speaker 1: happen right now, well said, and I think it's it's 604 00:31:05,718 --> 00:31:08,278 Speaker 1: It's always been valuable, of course, but I think it's 605 00:31:08,278 --> 00:31:11,398 Speaker 1: coming back and gaining in value. I think about those 606 00:31:11,438 --> 00:31:14,558 Speaker 1: Oakland A's teams, the moneyball teams, if you will, where 607 00:31:14,958 --> 00:31:18,358 Speaker 1: they got famous, you know, through Brad Pitt in the movie. 608 00:31:18,478 --> 00:31:22,958 Speaker 1: But I remember talking to opponents playing those Oakland teams, 609 00:31:23,198 --> 00:31:25,598 Speaker 1: and they were very easy to play against. The third 610 00:31:25,638 --> 00:31:30,238 Speaker 1: base coach wasn't even giving signs. If you were playing defense, 611 00:31:30,558 --> 00:31:32,758 Speaker 1: all you focused on was the hitter. You never had 612 00:31:32,798 --> 00:31:34,958 Speaker 1: to worry about a runner taking off. There was no 613 00:31:35,038 --> 00:31:38,238 Speaker 1: hit and run, there was no stolen bases. I like 614 00:31:38,478 --> 00:31:40,998 Speaker 1: the fact now again that the nuance of the game, 615 00:31:41,038 --> 00:31:43,998 Speaker 1: the strategies of the game, are coming back. So I 616 00:31:44,038 --> 00:31:45,918 Speaker 1: think that's a good thing. Hey, we're gonna take a 617 00:31:45,998 --> 00:31:49,558 Speaker 1: quick break here and get another question for Joe and 618 00:31:49,638 --> 00:31:52,158 Speaker 1: for all our viewers here. Have you noticed what's been 619 00:31:52,198 --> 00:31:57,038 Speaker 1: going on with fastballs. It's early, but I'll give you 620 00:31:57,078 --> 00:32:09,278 Speaker 1: the trends when we get back. Welcome back to the 621 00:32:09,318 --> 00:32:12,758 Speaker 1: Book of Joe podcast, Tom Berducci and Joe Madden back 622 00:32:12,798 --> 00:32:17,118 Speaker 1: with you. I mentioned fastballs, and Joe, you saw this managing. 623 00:32:17,798 --> 00:32:22,198 Speaker 1: You know, the fastball usage is going down, fastball velocity 624 00:32:22,318 --> 00:32:25,638 Speaker 1: is going up. That's been the trend, right and it's 625 00:32:25,678 --> 00:32:30,838 Speaker 1: continuing so far this season. Fastball percentage back in twenty eighteen. 626 00:32:30,878 --> 00:32:33,438 Speaker 1: That's not that long ago, folks, five years ago fifty 627 00:32:33,478 --> 00:32:36,038 Speaker 1: five percent. I'm not including cutters here, so this is 628 00:32:36,078 --> 00:32:39,478 Speaker 1: four seamers and two steamers. We're down to forty seven 629 00:32:39,518 --> 00:32:42,918 Speaker 1: percent this year. That's down from forty nine percent just 630 00:32:43,038 --> 00:32:46,838 Speaker 1: last year. Two percent drop. That's a big deal. And again, 631 00:32:47,078 --> 00:32:48,958 Speaker 1: we've got to be careful about some of these trends 632 00:32:48,958 --> 00:32:52,278 Speaker 1: early on. I get it, small sample size, but this 633 00:32:52,358 --> 00:32:54,198 Speaker 1: is what we have so far, and certainly it's been 634 00:32:54,238 --> 00:32:58,158 Speaker 1: the trend because it's been going down virtually every single 635 00:32:58,238 --> 00:33:01,798 Speaker 1: year in what I call the stat cast Rrison's twenty fifteen. 636 00:33:01,918 --> 00:33:04,998 Speaker 1: Because spin is harder to hit, and even though guys 637 00:33:05,038 --> 00:33:08,478 Speaker 1: are throwing harder, these hitters are so good training off 638 00:33:08,558 --> 00:33:11,758 Speaker 1: high velocity machines. They can time a jet engine, so 639 00:33:11,798 --> 00:33:15,678 Speaker 1: we're seeing that happen. But here's what's really interesting to me, Joe, 640 00:33:15,678 --> 00:33:17,878 Speaker 1: and I think this gets back to the pitch timer, 641 00:33:18,438 --> 00:33:22,278 Speaker 1: because now as a pitcher, you have less recovery not 642 00:33:22,318 --> 00:33:25,558 Speaker 1: only between pitches, but as a starter between innings as well. 643 00:33:26,438 --> 00:33:29,798 Speaker 1: What I noticed here is that velocity is down just slightly. 644 00:33:29,958 --> 00:33:32,558 Speaker 1: I mean it's not it's negligible. Ninety three point nine 645 00:33:32,598 --> 00:33:35,398 Speaker 1: down to ninety three point eight. I mean, that's not 646 00:33:35,638 --> 00:33:40,198 Speaker 1: really worth saying it's declining. But this is after the 647 00:33:40,278 --> 00:33:42,438 Speaker 1: sixth inning, so essentially, when the game's in the hands 648 00:33:42,438 --> 00:33:45,718 Speaker 1: of the bullpen, velocity has gone down from ninety four 649 00:33:45,718 --> 00:33:49,598 Speaker 1: to six to ninety four three. So the bigger jump 650 00:33:49,678 --> 00:33:51,718 Speaker 1: now is at the end of the game. And I'm 651 00:33:51,758 --> 00:33:54,878 Speaker 1: thinking about all these big, hard throwing relief pitchers Joe, 652 00:33:54,918 --> 00:33:58,198 Speaker 1: who macks out on every single pitch and you don't 653 00:33:58,238 --> 00:34:02,438 Speaker 1: have the thirty thirty five seconds, you know, the patro Biases, 654 00:34:02,478 --> 00:34:06,558 Speaker 1: the Kenley Jansens to really max out on every pitch. 655 00:34:07,718 --> 00:34:10,198 Speaker 1: Maybe that's a trend to keep your eye on where 656 00:34:10,638 --> 00:34:14,158 Speaker 1: velocity late in the game is not well, it was. 657 00:34:14,238 --> 00:34:17,598 Speaker 1: What do you think about fastball usage and velocity. You know, 658 00:34:17,638 --> 00:34:20,638 Speaker 1: it's de pics on the hitter. I mean there's times 659 00:34:20,638 --> 00:34:23,398 Speaker 1: that I hate when we throw breaking ball too. I know, 660 00:34:23,438 --> 00:34:25,558 Speaker 1: a guy that has more of a slider speed bat, 661 00:34:25,598 --> 00:34:27,398 Speaker 1: he's knock going to catch up to the fast way 662 00:34:27,398 --> 00:34:29,598 Speaker 1: he can see it from the side, but you're still 663 00:34:29,638 --> 00:34:31,598 Speaker 1: revert back to a pitch that he can hit as 664 00:34:31,598 --> 00:34:34,918 Speaker 1: opposed to when he cannot. So I'm always cognizant of that, 665 00:34:35,038 --> 00:34:37,678 Speaker 1: and everybody's different and you have to be aware of that. 666 00:34:38,198 --> 00:34:41,638 Speaker 1: The sweepie slider has been a really big part of 667 00:34:41,718 --> 00:34:44,198 Speaker 1: the new wave of trying to get a hitter out 668 00:34:44,238 --> 00:34:46,078 Speaker 1: of striking him out because it's all about swing and 669 00:34:46,158 --> 00:34:48,478 Speaker 1: miss Nobody wants the ball in play. So if we 670 00:34:48,558 --> 00:34:51,278 Speaker 1: could expand somebody strike zone, we're gonna expand the strike 671 00:34:51,398 --> 00:34:53,478 Speaker 1: zone and we're gonna go for the punch shot and 672 00:34:53,518 --> 00:34:56,638 Speaker 1: I have the ball put in play. So that's always 673 00:34:56,638 --> 00:34:59,398 Speaker 1: going to be at the crux of the analytical world 674 00:34:59,478 --> 00:35:01,998 Speaker 1: is that we want swings and misses. On defense, we 675 00:35:02,038 --> 00:35:03,558 Speaker 1: do not want the ball put in play. We don't 676 00:35:03,558 --> 00:35:04,878 Speaker 1: want to take a chance that we're going to get 677 00:35:04,878 --> 00:35:07,718 Speaker 1: a soft hit somewhere and it's going to destroy our 678 00:35:07,758 --> 00:35:10,118 Speaker 1: strategy whatever. So this that's still going to be part 679 00:35:10,158 --> 00:35:12,718 Speaker 1: of it. I'm a little surprised, you know, the reliever 680 00:35:12,838 --> 00:35:14,438 Speaker 1: wise that have to look at all of that, the 681 00:35:14,478 --> 00:35:17,558 Speaker 1: fact that that's down a little bit your overall velocity. 682 00:35:18,678 --> 00:35:22,678 Speaker 1: But I do you watch these guys and to me, 683 00:35:22,918 --> 00:35:25,718 Speaker 1: to be a really effective relief pitcher, it's you've got 684 00:35:25,718 --> 00:35:28,918 Speaker 1: to have one other outstanding pitch. You know. They don't 685 00:35:28,958 --> 00:35:31,038 Speaker 1: have to have three or four outstanding pitches because they're 686 00:35:31,038 --> 00:35:33,278 Speaker 1: out there a limited time, like you're talking about. The 687 00:35:33,758 --> 00:35:36,718 Speaker 1: spring has to be wound more quickly and then released, 688 00:35:37,598 --> 00:35:41,318 Speaker 1: number of pitches, strown, time in between pitches, all that stuff. Yeah, 689 00:35:41,438 --> 00:35:43,318 Speaker 1: it's going to have an influence because these guys are like, 690 00:35:43,398 --> 00:35:45,918 Speaker 1: really the sprinters. They're they're not the long distance guys. 691 00:35:45,958 --> 00:35:48,838 Speaker 1: They're sprinters and you're asked to do this on a 692 00:35:48,958 --> 00:35:52,518 Speaker 1: nightly basis, so that can take its toll too. So 693 00:35:52,558 --> 00:35:55,598 Speaker 1: I'm curious. I haven't been really locked into that mentally, 694 00:35:55,958 --> 00:35:58,358 Speaker 1: I haven't noticed that. I mean, like I said, I'm 695 00:35:58,358 --> 00:36:02,118 Speaker 1: curious as you're talking about it. But yeah, I know, 696 00:36:02,198 --> 00:36:05,078 Speaker 1: even my last year or so with the Angels, the 697 00:36:05,838 --> 00:36:10,358 Speaker 1: sweep sliders become very very popular. If it works for 698 00:36:10,518 --> 00:36:12,638 Speaker 1: one team, well, the other teams are going to want 699 00:36:12,638 --> 00:36:15,958 Speaker 1: it until that goes away and something else comes along. 700 00:36:16,358 --> 00:36:19,798 Speaker 1: That's just the way baseball's working right now. So I 701 00:36:19,838 --> 00:36:22,838 Speaker 1: do believe the clock. I was just writing in general 702 00:36:22,918 --> 00:36:26,718 Speaker 1: terms about the clock where just not to answer your 703 00:36:26,758 --> 00:36:29,158 Speaker 1: question specifically, But this is where the six men rotation 704 00:36:29,238 --> 00:36:32,758 Speaker 1: I think is really going to be more prominent because 705 00:36:32,758 --> 00:36:36,358 Speaker 1: of the clock. You know, the less time, more time 706 00:36:36,358 --> 00:36:40,478 Speaker 1: to rest, less possible injury. I also like to believe 707 00:36:40,518 --> 00:36:42,238 Speaker 1: that if they were to go to that that'd be less, 708 00:36:42,278 --> 00:36:44,198 Speaker 1: they'd be more lenient. With one hundred pitch limit. I'm 709 00:36:44,198 --> 00:36:48,318 Speaker 1: looking at the paper today, everybody like maximizes at about 710 00:36:48,318 --> 00:36:51,238 Speaker 1: one hundred pitches and nobody wants to go beyond that number, 711 00:36:51,278 --> 00:36:54,158 Speaker 1: almost like it's hot coals. And for me, it's like 712 00:36:54,198 --> 00:36:56,718 Speaker 1: we create the limits. We create in the limits, and 713 00:36:56,798 --> 00:36:59,318 Speaker 1: I prefer that each player creates as all limits. I'm 714 00:36:59,358 --> 00:37:01,678 Speaker 1: talking about pictures right now, And with that, I would 715 00:37:01,678 --> 00:37:03,678 Speaker 1: create more latitude on the minor league level, this is 716 00:37:03,678 --> 00:37:06,638 Speaker 1: where you have to see all this stuff. More latitude 717 00:37:06,638 --> 00:37:09,038 Speaker 1: in the minor league level, permitting these guys to one 718 00:37:09,078 --> 00:37:13,678 Speaker 1: hundred pitches or more if their arm looks like that 719 00:37:13,718 --> 00:37:16,558 Speaker 1: they're they're in their delivery. How much rest did they 720 00:37:16,558 --> 00:37:17,998 Speaker 1: have to their next start? And what did they how 721 00:37:18,078 --> 00:37:19,998 Speaker 1: much rest did they had, and how many pitches did 722 00:37:20,038 --> 00:37:21,958 Speaker 1: they throw in the previous starts. See, all these things, 723 00:37:21,998 --> 00:37:24,878 Speaker 1: to me are part of the evaluation. That's why you 724 00:37:24,878 --> 00:37:27,438 Speaker 1: just I just can't. It's hard just to answer a question. 725 00:37:27,478 --> 00:37:30,718 Speaker 1: And everybody wants to put everybody in the same little 726 00:37:30,758 --> 00:37:34,038 Speaker 1: compartment or box. They're all different. You can't compare it. 727 00:37:34,038 --> 00:37:36,238 Speaker 1: You can't talk about Max Sers or like you're going 728 00:37:36,318 --> 00:37:39,038 Speaker 1: to talk about some first year right hand and pitch 729 00:37:39,078 --> 00:37:41,558 Speaker 1: or whatever coming out of the minor league where he 730 00:37:41,638 --> 00:37:43,718 Speaker 1: wasn't permitted to throw more than ninety pitches. It's all 731 00:37:43,758 --> 00:37:47,798 Speaker 1: different stuff. So I'm curious, like you're saying the hush 732 00:37:48,318 --> 00:37:51,078 Speaker 1: small sample size, I'll pay more attention to this. I 733 00:37:51,118 --> 00:37:55,438 Speaker 1: didn't even realize that, but it's it is interesting. And again, 734 00:37:55,478 --> 00:37:58,078 Speaker 1: the clock and haven't impact in other ways other than 735 00:37:58,078 --> 00:38:00,758 Speaker 1: the fact you just have to throw the baseball sooner. Well, 736 00:38:00,798 --> 00:38:04,158 Speaker 1: I'll go back to something that Sandy Alderson said in 737 00:38:04,198 --> 00:38:06,278 Speaker 1: our book, The Book of Joe. I thought Sandy was 738 00:38:06,318 --> 00:38:08,198 Speaker 1: really good talking about how the game had changed and 739 00:38:08,238 --> 00:38:10,038 Speaker 1: how it did need to get back into the hands 740 00:38:10,038 --> 00:38:12,318 Speaker 1: of players, coaches, managers and out of the hands of 741 00:38:12,358 --> 00:38:16,398 Speaker 1: front office people. And he realized, Hey, it's almost like, 742 00:38:16,678 --> 00:38:18,838 Speaker 1: you know, you guys have hacked this game in terms 743 00:38:18,878 --> 00:38:23,398 Speaker 1: of the percentages of analytical baseball. We're gonna change the rules. 744 00:38:23,558 --> 00:38:25,358 Speaker 1: You know, you learn how to play this way at poker, 745 00:38:25,358 --> 00:38:28,438 Speaker 1: and now we're gonna play blackjack, and now they're figuring 746 00:38:28,438 --> 00:38:30,918 Speaker 1: out the rules of the way the game is right 747 00:38:30,958 --> 00:38:33,438 Speaker 1: now this year, and it's different, it's being played differently, 748 00:38:33,878 --> 00:38:37,038 Speaker 1: and you're saying, teams adjust. I think it's good. I 749 00:38:37,038 --> 00:38:40,358 Speaker 1: think it's more interesting. And getting back to your point 750 00:38:40,398 --> 00:38:43,398 Speaker 1: about pitch counts and not treating everybody the same, it 751 00:38:43,478 --> 00:38:45,758 Speaker 1: was interesting to me. I haven't checked the latest numbers, 752 00:38:45,798 --> 00:38:48,438 Speaker 1: but through the first week or so the season, maybe 753 00:38:48,478 --> 00:38:51,678 Speaker 1: first ten days, the most pitches thrown in the game 754 00:38:51,838 --> 00:38:55,278 Speaker 1: was one hundred and eleven pitches and that was done 755 00:38:55,318 --> 00:39:00,998 Speaker 1: by guess who show Hey Otani? How about that showy Otani? 756 00:39:01,118 --> 00:39:03,118 Speaker 1: The same guy who came out of the bullpen and 757 00:39:03,198 --> 00:39:07,038 Speaker 1: the WBC who signed up the pitch in the WBC 758 00:39:07,278 --> 00:39:09,358 Speaker 1: when a lot of the American pitchers were sitting on 759 00:39:09,438 --> 00:39:11,478 Speaker 1: their couch saying you know, I'm not going to ramp 760 00:39:11,598 --> 00:39:14,238 Speaker 1: up that early. The same show, Aotani is a free 761 00:39:14,238 --> 00:39:17,278 Speaker 1: agent at the end of the season. The same Showeotani, 762 00:39:17,318 --> 00:39:20,438 Speaker 1: who in that game had ninety five pitches after five 763 00:39:20,518 --> 00:39:23,078 Speaker 1: innings or six innings and said, I want to go 764 00:39:23,118 --> 00:39:24,878 Speaker 1: back out there and face the middle of the lineup 765 00:39:24,918 --> 00:39:27,478 Speaker 1: one more time to get us through, goes out there 766 00:39:27,478 --> 00:39:30,198 Speaker 1: and finishes at one eleven when everybody else is checking 767 00:39:30,198 --> 00:39:33,158 Speaker 1: out at ninety or third time around. I just love 768 00:39:33,198 --> 00:39:36,478 Speaker 1: the fact that, and Joe you started this with, show Hey, 769 00:39:36,998 --> 00:39:40,678 Speaker 1: don't put limits on greatness, and you know, listen, one 770 00:39:40,718 --> 00:39:43,118 Speaker 1: hundred and eleven. It's not one hundred and fifty back 771 00:39:43,118 --> 00:39:45,878 Speaker 1: in the day of Nolan Ryan. I get that. But 772 00:39:46,038 --> 00:39:49,718 Speaker 1: I love the fact that Showhey didn't bag out of 773 00:39:49,718 --> 00:39:52,398 Speaker 1: that game just because he was nearing one hundred pitches, 774 00:39:52,518 --> 00:39:55,638 Speaker 1: and we are seeing one hundred become the new Well 775 00:39:55,678 --> 00:39:57,518 Speaker 1: it used to be one twenty, than it was one ten, 776 00:39:57,838 --> 00:39:59,838 Speaker 1: and it's pretty much the outer limits now. So good 777 00:39:59,838 --> 00:40:03,878 Speaker 1: on Showheyotani. Yeah, he listened. He wants to stay out there, 778 00:40:04,838 --> 00:40:08,158 Speaker 1: and he'll he'll tell you now, like in that situation, 779 00:40:08,198 --> 00:40:10,198 Speaker 1: if he was gassed, he'd let you know. His gas. 780 00:40:10,318 --> 00:40:12,358 Speaker 1: Now I can't do that, but he wasn't gassed, and 781 00:40:12,518 --> 00:40:15,078 Speaker 1: he and he knows, like you just kind of alluded 782 00:40:15,118 --> 00:40:17,958 Speaker 1: to there. He knew that if if I don't go 783 00:40:18,038 --> 00:40:22,038 Speaker 1: back out there are chances of winning are less only 784 00:40:22,078 --> 00:40:24,718 Speaker 1: because I'm going to cover three more outs, less work 785 00:40:24,758 --> 00:40:26,918 Speaker 1: on the bullpens part. I know this is going to 786 00:40:26,998 --> 00:40:30,198 Speaker 1: benefit them, admit puts us in better position. He thinks 787 00:40:30,278 --> 00:40:33,198 Speaker 1: that way. That's how he evaluated that moment, I can 788 00:40:33,238 --> 00:40:35,438 Speaker 1: still do this. And then what he does. He goes 789 00:40:35,438 --> 00:40:37,158 Speaker 1: out there and he didn't he turns it up a 790 00:40:37,158 --> 00:40:40,358 Speaker 1: few notches. He just does. He's got that, he's got 791 00:40:40,398 --> 00:40:43,238 Speaker 1: that thing in him that a few few have ever had, 792 00:40:43,478 --> 00:40:45,438 Speaker 1: and he's able to go out there and pitch at 793 00:40:45,478 --> 00:40:49,318 Speaker 1: an even higher levels. So not surprising. The other thing 794 00:40:49,318 --> 00:40:51,038 Speaker 1: I just wanted to bring up. I was looking at 795 00:40:51,078 --> 00:40:52,758 Speaker 1: the box scores to day, a lot of punch out. 796 00:40:52,838 --> 00:40:57,198 Speaker 1: So as things attempt to change, the more they remain 797 00:40:57,318 --> 00:41:00,478 Speaker 1: the same. And look at the Mets struck out fourteen Padres, 798 00:41:00,518 --> 00:41:04,078 Speaker 1: the White Suck struck out thirteen twins Tampa Bay ten 799 00:41:04,158 --> 00:41:07,718 Speaker 1: punchy Baltimore eleven versus the A's. How about Andrew Heaney 800 00:41:08,158 --> 00:41:11,878 Speaker 1: nine consecutive punchouts last night, but that I love, I 801 00:41:11,958 --> 00:41:17,958 Speaker 1: love Andrew's fastball. And then Milwaukee Arizona fifteen strikeouts versus Milwaukee. Um, 802 00:41:18,398 --> 00:41:20,958 Speaker 1: so that's that's see, that's these are the things that 803 00:41:20,998 --> 00:41:25,438 Speaker 1: nobody talks about. And I to me, this is adaptations. 804 00:41:25,478 --> 00:41:27,118 Speaker 1: This is this is the mental part of the game 805 00:41:27,158 --> 00:41:29,798 Speaker 1: where I call it a b hack two strike approach 806 00:41:30,318 --> 00:41:33,878 Speaker 1: where if you swif you're watching these games and hitters 807 00:41:33,918 --> 00:41:36,118 Speaker 1: don't necessarily make any kind of adjustments when they get 808 00:41:36,118 --> 00:41:38,078 Speaker 1: to two strikes, they're still done at the end of 809 00:41:38,078 --> 00:41:39,998 Speaker 1: the bath. They're still swinging hard, they're still going for 810 00:41:40,038 --> 00:41:44,438 Speaker 1: the pencils. And I've been in meetings where analysts insistent, yeah, 811 00:41:44,478 --> 00:41:46,158 Speaker 1: we still want them swinging for a home run right 812 00:41:46,158 --> 00:41:48,398 Speaker 1: and we don't want them to cuddle down at all, 813 00:41:48,438 --> 00:41:51,078 Speaker 1: And it just it just boggles my mind where it's 814 00:41:51,078 --> 00:41:52,958 Speaker 1: just like a punchee to right field right there, little 815 00:41:52,958 --> 00:41:56,438 Speaker 1: blooper is gonna make a difference, It's gonna win the game. Um. 816 00:41:56,558 --> 00:41:58,158 Speaker 1: You know the two strike up poach for me, and 817 00:41:58,198 --> 00:42:00,758 Speaker 1: my BI hack is look away, first choke up. Think 818 00:42:00,838 --> 00:42:05,398 Speaker 1: fastball verst as an example, you're making these mental adaptations 819 00:42:05,438 --> 00:42:08,158 Speaker 1: to knock down these strikeouts. I mean, to me, all 820 00:42:08,198 --> 00:42:10,798 Speaker 1: these there's been a lot of wonderful adjustments and primate 821 00:42:10,798 --> 00:42:14,238 Speaker 1: it's been spearheaded by the clock for me. But now, 822 00:42:14,558 --> 00:42:17,678 Speaker 1: if you really want to manipulate this game and make 823 00:42:17,678 --> 00:42:21,558 Speaker 1: it more exciting, it's like to really somehow get these 824 00:42:21,598 --> 00:42:26,558 Speaker 1: groups to teach or practice and reward not striking out 825 00:42:26,598 --> 00:42:30,678 Speaker 1: as much or moving the ball more often, because right now, 826 00:42:30,678 --> 00:42:32,438 Speaker 1: everybody's going to argue that the only way to win 827 00:42:32,478 --> 00:42:34,118 Speaker 1: these games is to hit home runs. And they'll say 828 00:42:34,118 --> 00:42:36,438 Speaker 1: that the teams of the best winning percentages hit the 829 00:42:36,478 --> 00:42:39,638 Speaker 1: most home runs. I want to hit the most home 830 00:42:39,718 --> 00:42:41,278 Speaker 1: runs and also want to make the most contact. I 831 00:42:41,318 --> 00:42:43,838 Speaker 1: don't think it's incongruit to do that stuff. So these 832 00:42:43,878 --> 00:42:46,198 Speaker 1: are the things I'm looking at now, and that's going 833 00:42:46,238 --> 00:42:50,598 Speaker 1: to be individual organizational philosophy to teach that and learn 834 00:42:50,678 --> 00:42:54,278 Speaker 1: how to knock down fifteen and thirteen and eleven and 835 00:42:54,438 --> 00:42:58,118 Speaker 1: thirteen and fourteen punchy yesterday down to like less than 836 00:42:58,198 --> 00:43:00,598 Speaker 1: ten for me, like seven or eight. And then also 837 00:43:00,598 --> 00:43:02,318 Speaker 1: I would always look at the number of walks. I 838 00:43:02,438 --> 00:43:05,038 Speaker 1: like to see my walks at least behalf of what 839 00:43:05,118 --> 00:43:08,918 Speaker 1: my strikeouts were as a group, that night. So that's 840 00:43:08,958 --> 00:43:12,398 Speaker 1: where I think you're optimizing offensive performance. So these are 841 00:43:12,398 --> 00:43:14,918 Speaker 1: the things I've been paying attention to. Yeah, that's a 842 00:43:15,038 --> 00:43:17,718 Speaker 1: smart observation there, especially about the walks that you know 843 00:43:17,758 --> 00:43:19,678 Speaker 1: I did that Mets game you're talking about with the 844 00:43:19,678 --> 00:43:22,478 Speaker 1: fourteen strikeouts of San Diego, the Mets also walked six 845 00:43:22,558 --> 00:43:25,238 Speaker 1: batters and I don't know how many times I saw 846 00:43:25,358 --> 00:43:28,358 Speaker 1: full counts where it was change up or slider on 847 00:43:28,398 --> 00:43:31,598 Speaker 1: a full count. So I think it's back to what 848 00:43:31,638 --> 00:43:33,998 Speaker 1: you're saying about the home run. You're almost defending the 849 00:43:34,078 --> 00:43:37,598 Speaker 1: home run and pitching defensively at that point. But again, 850 00:43:37,638 --> 00:43:39,718 Speaker 1: I think if we get more guys who can run 851 00:43:39,758 --> 00:43:42,278 Speaker 1: and we have more stolen bases, the penalty for the 852 00:43:42,318 --> 00:43:44,878 Speaker 1: walk goes up. Yeah, and that's what I'm hoping happens 853 00:43:44,998 --> 00:43:46,878 Speaker 1: during the course of this season because right now it's 854 00:43:46,878 --> 00:43:49,918 Speaker 1: a great observation on your part. Walks are up and 855 00:43:49,998 --> 00:43:52,718 Speaker 1: again early I keep saying that, but you know, it's 856 00:43:52,718 --> 00:43:54,638 Speaker 1: not a trend yet, but something to keep your eye on. 857 00:43:55,438 --> 00:43:57,918 Speaker 1: Walks are up to the highest level in the last 858 00:43:57,958 --> 00:44:02,438 Speaker 1: twenty three years, walks per game, So you know, again 859 00:44:02,758 --> 00:44:08,118 Speaker 1: throwing less fastball, spinning the ball more, being having this 860 00:44:08,238 --> 00:44:11,518 Speaker 1: mindset that a walk is okay because you're defending the 861 00:44:11,598 --> 00:44:13,638 Speaker 1: home run. That's right. And again, if you get more 862 00:44:13,638 --> 00:44:17,318 Speaker 1: stolen basis, be careful about those walks coming back to 863 00:44:17,398 --> 00:44:19,838 Speaker 1: bite you. That's all interconnected. I could with one hundred 864 00:44:19,838 --> 00:44:22,678 Speaker 1: percent last point too. Please. Who wins the battle of 865 00:44:22,678 --> 00:44:25,158 Speaker 1: the full count on a nightly basis? I was big 866 00:44:25,198 --> 00:44:28,718 Speaker 1: on that. I really try to get into that. I 867 00:44:28,838 --> 00:44:32,198 Speaker 1: really started paying attention to the full count the winner 868 00:44:32,238 --> 00:44:34,958 Speaker 1: of the full count were on a specific night, your 869 00:44:34,998 --> 00:44:37,598 Speaker 1: pitchers full counts, your hitter's full counts. Who wins that? 870 00:44:38,478 --> 00:44:41,238 Speaker 1: I think that's an interesting number because the full count 871 00:44:41,238 --> 00:44:43,198 Speaker 1: winner on the offensive side normally is the guy that 872 00:44:43,238 --> 00:44:46,158 Speaker 1: doesn't chase. The full count winner on the pitching side 873 00:44:46,238 --> 00:44:48,078 Speaker 1: is the guy that's able to throw a pitch that 874 00:44:48,798 --> 00:44:52,758 Speaker 1: could become that creates a chase with the hitter on 875 00:44:52,798 --> 00:44:56,638 Speaker 1: the other side. So I think if even in spring 876 00:44:56,678 --> 00:44:59,318 Speaker 1: training I started talking about that a lot, I want 877 00:44:59,438 --> 00:45:01,278 Speaker 1: to I want us to dominate full count. I want 878 00:45:01,318 --> 00:45:02,678 Speaker 1: us to win the battle of the full count on 879 00:45:02,678 --> 00:45:04,798 Speaker 1: a nightly basis. I think I could leak two millions. 880 00:45:05,318 --> 00:45:07,318 Speaker 1: All good stuff. Joe. You know what I like about 881 00:45:07,318 --> 00:45:09,718 Speaker 1: this is that the game is changing in real time 882 00:45:09,758 --> 00:45:12,118 Speaker 1: with these new rules. We're not sure where it's going. 883 00:45:12,238 --> 00:45:14,318 Speaker 1: We're all trying to read the tea leaves this early, 884 00:45:14,758 --> 00:45:17,078 Speaker 1: but we know it's going to be different. It is different, 885 00:45:17,198 --> 00:45:20,118 Speaker 1: and we know obviously it's faster. But it's fascinating to 886 00:45:20,118 --> 00:45:23,158 Speaker 1: see how teams adjust. Whether some of these things we're 887 00:45:23,158 --> 00:45:26,838 Speaker 1: talking about developing the full blown trends, whether it's just 888 00:45:26,878 --> 00:45:28,878 Speaker 1: a blip on a you know, a two week start 889 00:45:28,918 --> 00:45:30,798 Speaker 1: to a major league season, we don't know. But we 890 00:45:30,838 --> 00:45:34,718 Speaker 1: know that baseball is being played differently than it has 891 00:45:34,758 --> 00:45:37,478 Speaker 1: been since I think in the mid nineteen eighties in 892 00:45:37,558 --> 00:45:40,478 Speaker 1: terms of pace. So this is all good, all good fodder. 893 00:45:40,518 --> 00:45:43,198 Speaker 1: I love your perspective from the dugout, Joe. It really 894 00:45:43,238 --> 00:45:45,478 Speaker 1: adds a lot, I think, to the way the game 895 00:45:45,598 --> 00:45:48,358 Speaker 1: is playing out this year. So we will keep an 896 00:45:48,398 --> 00:45:51,118 Speaker 1: eye on it. Always fun talking about these trends with you. 897 00:45:51,478 --> 00:45:55,038 Speaker 1: Thank you, buddy. Same here. I mean, it's it's fit 898 00:45:55,198 --> 00:45:57,038 Speaker 1: is fascinating, and I agree with you. And then it 899 00:45:57,398 --> 00:45:59,678 Speaker 1: does just stands out I think as I'll watch the game, 900 00:45:59,718 --> 00:46:02,478 Speaker 1: and the thing obviously that stands out so fast that 901 00:46:02,638 --> 00:46:05,478 Speaker 1: it gets ball pitcher throws ball hitters in the box, 902 00:46:05,558 --> 00:46:08,358 Speaker 1: hitters ready to swing. I love that part of it. Now, 903 00:46:08,358 --> 00:46:12,998 Speaker 1: if we could just somehow respect the base, hit again, 904 00:46:14,118 --> 00:46:18,558 Speaker 1: respect contact again, and if we could arrive at that 905 00:46:18,638 --> 00:46:20,918 Speaker 1: point where there's respect given to that, I agree with 906 00:46:20,958 --> 00:46:24,878 Speaker 1: you that will also lead potentially to somebody even attempting 907 00:46:24,878 --> 00:46:28,598 Speaker 1: a hit and run. And like you said earlier, and 908 00:46:28,678 --> 00:46:35,158 Speaker 1: it's true, the mental doubt, the pressure that you put 909 00:46:35,158 --> 00:46:37,438 Speaker 1: on the other team by the fact that you might 910 00:46:37,518 --> 00:46:41,678 Speaker 1: do something. Wow, that's that is that could be very 911 00:46:41,798 --> 00:46:45,398 Speaker 1: very substantial in regards to benefiting your group. Yeah, I 912 00:46:45,558 --> 00:46:47,438 Speaker 1: love it all right, Joe, you got something to take 913 00:46:47,518 --> 00:46:50,038 Speaker 1: us out tonight? Yeah, I mean, I'm going to go 914 00:46:50,078 --> 00:46:53,718 Speaker 1: back to my boy winning. Apparently he drank a lot, 915 00:46:53,798 --> 00:46:55,998 Speaker 1: you know, And I guess you had to if you're 916 00:46:55,998 --> 00:46:59,158 Speaker 1: gonna like run England during World War Two with all 917 00:46:59,158 --> 00:47:01,118 Speaker 1: the stuff going on around you. But this is just 918 00:47:01,238 --> 00:47:05,598 Speaker 1: typical of its brilliance and also self confidence. History will 919 00:47:05,638 --> 00:47:07,638 Speaker 1: be kind to me for I tend to write it. 920 00:47:09,998 --> 00:47:13,638 Speaker 1: I love that. I love that, you know. That's that's 921 00:47:14,078 --> 00:47:17,438 Speaker 1: that's what you want to do as a baseball organization, 922 00:47:17,518 --> 00:47:20,878 Speaker 1: as a baseball team, as a group. History is going 923 00:47:20,918 --> 00:47:23,958 Speaker 1: to be kind of to the twenty sixteen cups because 924 00:47:23,998 --> 00:47:26,478 Speaker 1: we wrote it. You know, you write your own history, 925 00:47:26,958 --> 00:47:29,678 Speaker 1: and you think for yourself and you think on your 926 00:47:29,678 --> 00:47:32,318 Speaker 1: own two feet, and you don't just follow the crowd 927 00:47:32,358 --> 00:47:35,878 Speaker 1: just because the crowd says something or a group think. 928 00:47:35,918 --> 00:47:39,998 Speaker 1: You've got to fight that stuff sometimes. So mister Churchill 929 00:47:40,078 --> 00:47:42,278 Speaker 1: wrote it, and that's what we're attempting to do here, 930 00:47:42,358 --> 00:47:45,478 Speaker 1: is we're just trying to write your own history. And 931 00:47:45,918 --> 00:47:47,958 Speaker 1: we'll see how that all plays out. Because this year 932 00:47:48,038 --> 00:47:49,918 Speaker 1: is going to be it's very influential. Like you've been 933 00:47:49,958 --> 00:47:52,638 Speaker 1: talking about now, you're making a lot of wonderful points, 934 00:47:52,678 --> 00:47:57,078 Speaker 1: but the rule changes that are being implemented, it's very 935 00:47:57,198 --> 00:48:00,678 Speaker 1: vital to the game of baseball that we come out 936 00:48:00,718 --> 00:48:03,878 Speaker 1: on the other side when the publicity wise, and how 937 00:48:03,918 --> 00:48:05,638 Speaker 1: we're appealing to the younger group or even though you 938 00:48:05,758 --> 00:48:08,798 Speaker 1: established group, and as we move this thing forward. So 939 00:48:09,358 --> 00:48:11,758 Speaker 1: right now we're trying to kind of rewrite it or 940 00:48:11,838 --> 00:48:14,118 Speaker 1: write it and see where this all takes it. So 941 00:48:14,198 --> 00:48:17,078 Speaker 1: I'm really curious, and it's gonna it's gonna play out well, 942 00:48:17,118 --> 00:48:18,798 Speaker 1: I believe it's gonna play out. Well, there's gonna be 943 00:48:18,878 --> 00:48:21,838 Speaker 1: some nuanced adaptations. I'll tell you one thing before we 944 00:48:21,878 --> 00:48:23,238 Speaker 1: go to I mean, like you were talking about early 945 00:48:23,318 --> 00:48:25,758 Speaker 1: with relief pictures, I thought, even from a clock perspective, 946 00:48:25,758 --> 00:48:28,038 Speaker 1: why not add a second or two from like the 947 00:48:28,198 --> 00:48:30,518 Speaker 1: eighth inning off to the clock that when you get 948 00:48:30,518 --> 00:48:32,958 Speaker 1: into box as a hitter and as a pitcher, maybe 949 00:48:33,238 --> 00:48:35,678 Speaker 1: the clock readjust for a second or two. Just because 950 00:48:35,678 --> 00:48:37,638 Speaker 1: of the reason you have talked about. I don't think 951 00:48:37,638 --> 00:48:41,318 Speaker 1: anybody would argue with that. I would. Okay, I don't 952 00:48:41,318 --> 00:48:44,438 Speaker 1: like it. We'll talk about that next time, because I've 953 00:48:44,518 --> 00:48:47,358 Speaker 1: heard players talk about that, and yeah, I'm going to 954 00:48:47,438 --> 00:48:51,398 Speaker 1: resist that. But in the meantime, history is written by 955 00:48:51,438 --> 00:48:54,878 Speaker 1: the winners. That's right. Thank you Churchill. Yes, and thank 956 00:48:54,878 --> 00:49:04,438 Speaker 1: you Joe. You got her brother. Thank you. The Book 957 00:49:04,438 --> 00:49:07,838 Speaker 1: of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio. For more 958 00:49:07,918 --> 00:49:12,678 Speaker 1: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 959 00:49:12,838 --> 00:49:14,398 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts.