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Speaker 1: Hi, everybody. I hope you're having a great weekend. Chuck

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Speaker 1: Bryant here, co host of the Stuff You Should Know

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Speaker 1: podcast of what you are listening to. This Selects episode

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Speaker 1: comes from December twenty eighteen, and it's all about old

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Speaker 1: Doctor Seuss, Theodor Geisel, Doctor Seuss Colan, The Good, the Bad,

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Speaker 1: and the Ugly. Because if you talk about doctor Seuss,

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Speaker 1: you gotta talk about it all the books, the great stuff.

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Speaker 2: And some of the not so great stuff.

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Speaker 1: So check it out now if you'd like Doctor Seuss Colon,

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Speaker 1: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 4: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, There's

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Speaker 4: Charles w Chuck Bryant, there's Jerry over there. This is

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Speaker 4: the Doctor Soys.

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Speaker 2: Cast, our final episode of this.

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Speaker 4: Year, twenty eighteen. So long in the books, Doctor Seuss,

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Speaker 4: Doctor Seys. That's right.

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Speaker 2: You know what's funny?

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Speaker 4: Well we'll get to that, all right, Everything that's funny

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Speaker 4: can wait. Yep, we're gonna talk serious.

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Speaker 1: Doctor SEUs was an author of children's books. He was

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Speaker 1: so great and also kind of racist.

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Speaker 4: Chuck, there's a lot of stuff in here. I wish

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Speaker 4: I didn't know. I know.

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Speaker 1: I think we're about to ruin doctor SEUs at the

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Speaker 1: end of the year, right after the holidays, right, uh yeah,

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Speaker 1: but well let's just talk about the man.

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Speaker 4: Okay. So we are talking. We keep saying doctor Seuss.

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Speaker 4: Everybody knows him as doctor Seuss, but apparently the correct

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Speaker 4: pronunciation is sous. Yeah, and the guy would know because

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Speaker 4: Suss is actually his middle name. His name is Theodore

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Speaker 4: Seuss Geisel or Geisel? Is it Geisel or Geisel?

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Speaker 2: It would be Geisel in German you go with a

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Speaker 2: second vowel.

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Speaker 4: So Theodore soys Geisel.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And it's sort of when I saw that, everyone basically

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Speaker 1: was like Seuss until he eventually is like fine, like

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Speaker 1: I can't fight this fight any longer.

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Speaker 4: Well, they're like, we'll spell it differently.

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Speaker 1: Then, But they're reminded me of Joe Thiesman. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: the very famous story of quarterback Joe Theisman who changed

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Speaker 1: his spelling or his pronunciation to Thigsman to run with Heisman,

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Speaker 1: which I.

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Speaker 2: Think is the story. I think that's true. No, No,

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Speaker 2: I think that's true. Oh really, yeah, what do you

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Speaker 2: think that was just like an old football tale?

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Speaker 4: No, I'd never heard. I thought you're just being funny.

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Speaker 4: Oh no, that really happened, and that really came back

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Speaker 4: to bite him in the rump when his thigh bone

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Speaker 4: broke open. God, he's like, I guess my knee would

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Speaker 4: have busted if he had just kept that thievesman? Oh

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Speaker 4: is that not? Okay? Too soon? No, so we're obviously

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Speaker 4: once we get into Joe, thisman leg breaking tip awkward

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Speaker 4: talking about doctor series. That's right, Like I said, Theodore

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Speaker 4: sooys Geisel, who is I can't really think of a

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Speaker 4: children's book author that is more widely known.

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Speaker 2: Maybe Charles Schultz.

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Speaker 4: Maybe I think a comic strip guy children's sure, sure,

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Speaker 4: children's book, yeah, like Judy Bloom, Sure, But I don't

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Speaker 4: know if I call her children's book young adult like

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Speaker 4: children's book. I guess the Berenstein Bears not the Berenstein Bears.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say that Teddy Geisel holds that distinction

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Speaker 1: for sure.

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Speaker 4: At the very least, his work, his drawing is just

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Speaker 4: immediately recognizable. His style.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that font you we use that font

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Speaker 1: for our Live Christmas show shirts.

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Speaker 4: Nay on the oppy right, Kay?

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Speaker 1: No, it's not his. In fact, I looked it up.

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Speaker 1: I was kind of curious. I was like, what is

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Speaker 1: that great font that he uses for his book titles?

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Speaker 1: And I don't know what he used. He probably just

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Speaker 1: hand drew it. Sure, I imagine. But now there are

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Speaker 1: fonts called sois doctor soos.

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Speaker 2: Font or grinched that you can you know, you can

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Speaker 2: gank that. Sure we did for our Christmas shirt.

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Speaker 4: I haven't heard that word in forever, gank. I think

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Speaker 4: I was wearing like huge Jenko's the last time I

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Speaker 4: heard the word gank.

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Speaker 1: He ganked my milk off my tray bringing it back.

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Speaker 4: It's the last time I used it too.

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Speaker 2: So should we go back to the beginning?

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Speaker 4: Yes, back to Springfield, Massachusetts in nineteen oh four.

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Speaker 2: That's right, March two.

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Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, fellow Pisces, doctor Seuss was

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Speaker 1: born Teddy Geisel and his grandpops had come from Germany

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Speaker 1: in the mid eighteen hundreds bought a brewery because they

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Speaker 1: were good Germans, they knew all about beer.

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Speaker 4: And originally, get this, the name of the brewery was

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Speaker 4: Combach and Geisel, and they locally called it comeback and guzzle.

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Speaker 2: I love that and that awesome in German.

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Speaker 4: No less, yeah, whatever, that would be I think it'd

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Speaker 4: be comback and Geisel.

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Speaker 1: So he moved here and it would end up becoming

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Speaker 1: the Springfield Breweries Company, which his father then ran.

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Speaker 2: And this is really like we did.

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Speaker 1: He even did a show on prohibition, and it never

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Speaker 1: really hit home to me some of the repercussions of that.

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Speaker 1: I was just like, people can't drink, But I never

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Speaker 1: thought about a family business just being shut down.

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Speaker 4: That was a good episode, it was.

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Speaker 1: But that's what happened that, you know, Prohibition came along.

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Speaker 1: They had this successful brewery in their family. They're like, sorry,

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Speaker 1: you're no longer in business, Go find another job.

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Speaker 4: These guys, yeah, who.

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Speaker 2: Were secretly drinking.

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Speaker 4: Right, you know. So I had the job that is

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Speaker 4: his father did get was eventually became the supervisor of

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Speaker 4: the town's parks.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, kind of cool.

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Speaker 4: And there's a myth, an incorrect myth. From what I understand.

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Speaker 4: One of the parks had a zoo in it, and

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Speaker 4: so a lot of people say that drawings of the

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Speaker 4: animals were some of the first at the zoo were

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Speaker 4: some of the first drawings that little Ted came up with.

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Speaker 2: Not true.

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Speaker 4: No, his father became superintendent of the parks when he

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Speaker 4: was already a grown man. Oh, but well not a

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Speaker 4: grown man. He was definitely not a little kid at

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Speaker 4: the zoo.

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Speaker 2: Did he go to the zoo and draw animals? Or

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Speaker 2: is that all false?

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Speaker 4: I think it may be all false, but I'm making

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Speaker 4: that part up. I just from what I read he

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Speaker 4: was grown enough that he wasn't a little boy drawing

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Speaker 4: pictures of animals at the zoo. Like people think, interesting, Yeah,

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Speaker 4: I thought it was as well. I love busting myths.

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Speaker 4: I'm going to wear a brake now.

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Speaker 2: He should do a show.

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Speaker 1: So World War one comes along, which I've been I've

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Speaker 1: been doing a lot of World War One reading lately,

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Speaker 1: with the really anniversary of the Armisist armacists. Yeah, you

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Speaker 1: got really interesting. I didn't know much about it.

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Speaker 4: It's a pretty serious war, brutal. Everything I know about

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Speaker 4: is from the Wonder Woman movie. Yeah, I kid.

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Speaker 1: So they were German, that the Geisels were like we said,

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Speaker 1: and so in the United States during World War One

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Speaker 1: there was a lot of anti In fact, for a

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Speaker 1: long time, actually, there was a lot of anti German

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Speaker 1: sentiment in the US.

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Speaker 4: Right, They're like, we're not German. Were just like beer.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and her name is Geisel, so everyone it was

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Speaker 1: clear that they were German, and so, you know, there

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Speaker 1: was there was I get the feeling that he, you know,

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Speaker 1: felt like he was like picked on and laughed at,

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Speaker 1: teased because he was German.

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Speaker 4: Right, So if you can't beat him, join them. Turn

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Speaker 4: that same kind of bigotry onto others we'll find right.

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Speaker 1: So he starts at a very early age in high

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Speaker 1: school drawing cartoons, writing essays, funny essays, satirical essays. And

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Speaker 1: he started using a pen name very early on, maybe

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Speaker 1: because he was German, and he just reversed his last

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Speaker 1: name and he became Theo la Sigue.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. Actually, one of my favorite books, Hooper Humperdink Not Him,

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Speaker 4: is written by Theo Lasigue.

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Speaker 2: Oh really yeah?

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Speaker 4: Interesting, was like I always thought this was a doctor

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Speaker 4: Seu's book, and then I saw this and I'm like,

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Speaker 4: it was a doctor Seuss book.

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Speaker 2: Wow?

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Speaker 4: Do you ever read that one?

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Speaker 2: I don't think so.

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Speaker 4: What's it called? Hooper Humperdink Not Him. It's about this

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Speaker 4: kid who's throwing a birthday party and everybody's invited to

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Speaker 4: the greatest birthday party you've ever seen in your life,

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Speaker 4: except for poor Hooper humber Ink. And I think he

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Speaker 4: gets invited finally at the end.

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Speaker 1: Where your parents are like, we should probably get Josh

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Speaker 1: this and go ahead and get him ready, right pretty much.

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Speaker 4: There actually was a birthday party I wasn't invited to.

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Speaker 4: It really was like, I'm hooper humperdink.

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Speaker 1: Oh, well, you know my deal was I wasn't allowed

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Speaker 1: to go to boy girl parties for a while.

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Speaker 4: So but you were still invited, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, But that was even worse because I was invited

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Speaker 1: and I was like I had to say, no, I

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Speaker 1: can't go because there's girls there.

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Speaker 4: Right, I gotcha?

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Speaker 2: And how humiliating is that?

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Speaker 4: Especially in college?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And they were like, uh, what's wrong with girls?

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Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't know.

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Speaker 4: Ask my parents.

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Speaker 2: He seemed great to me.

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Speaker 1: They told me they smell nice, all right. So he

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Speaker 1: reversed his name became Lesigue. I went to Dartmouth College,

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Speaker 1: and like many many famous humorist, I guess you could

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Speaker 1: call him Yeah, for sure. He wrote for his college

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Speaker 1: humor magazine was called The jack O Lantern, and it

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Speaker 1: was just like, really solidifies that college humor magazines really

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Speaker 1: have produced some of the brightest comedic minds that in

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Speaker 1: this country over the years.

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Speaker 4: You know, yeah, Letterman, I think he worked at National Lampoons,

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Speaker 4: didn't he?

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Speaker 2: I don't know if Terman is Conan certainly did the

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Speaker 2: Harvard Lampoon.

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Speaker 4: I'm pretty sure Letterman did as well, all right, at

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Speaker 4: the very least a lot of his writers did.

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Speaker 2: Sure.

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Speaker 4: Okay, fine, okay, we'll settle on.

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Speaker 2: That that version of the truth.

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Speaker 4: Okay.

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Speaker 1: But he got kicked off of the magazine staff when

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Speaker 1: he was caught drinking on campus during prohibition, which is

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Speaker 1: kind of awesome.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'll bet it wasn't for him.

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Speaker 2: What do you mean?

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Speaker 4: Oh? But he was like, well, I want to be

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Speaker 4: on the magazine staff. This is terrible. This is an unjustice.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, not awesome for him, right, yeah, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: thought you meant he wasn't doing the drinking or something.

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Speaker 4: Right. This did nothing to cut his career off though, No, no, no,

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Speaker 4: he just adopted a new pseudonym. Yeah, soiss right s

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Speaker 4: auss again, but he pronounced it soys right. But he

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Speaker 4: was the only person who did so. He did graduate

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Speaker 4: from Dartmouth and I think nineteen twenty six, which also

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Speaker 4: further goes to show that he was so if he

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Speaker 4: graduated college in nineteen twenty six. Then his father's brewery

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Speaker 4: wouldn't have been shut down until I don't remember when

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Speaker 4: prohibition started, but he would He was obviously not a

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Speaker 4: young kid necessarily.

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Speaker 2: Gotcha okay, drawn dumb animals at the zoo at the zoo.

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Speaker 4: But he went on to Oxford to I guess pursue

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Speaker 4: a higher degree.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I think he was going to be a teacher, was

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Speaker 4: his original intent, and he didn't like Oxford, but Oxford

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Speaker 4: brought him to his wife, Helen Palmer, Yeah, his first wife,

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Speaker 4: his first wife, and they met and she actually had

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Speaker 4: a really great influence on him by saying, I think

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Speaker 4: you are maybe going to be a better artist than

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Speaker 4: a teacher, and kind of pushed him toward that. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: and he ended up pursuing a career in art, largely

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Speaker 4: because of her influence.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And he sort of did the student thing.

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Speaker 1: He worked on the novel, and he traveled around Europe

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Speaker 1: and was sort of doing and he was with Helen

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Speaker 1: of course this whole time. They eventually get married and

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Speaker 1: then he went to work for a magazine called Judge,

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Speaker 1: drawing once again like political cartoons, humor cartoons acted. This

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Speaker 1: is where he added the doctor to his name as

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Speaker 1: sort of a joke because he, I guess, did not

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Speaker 1: get that doctorate degree or whatever he was pursuing.

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Speaker 4: No, he didn't, but later on in life, Dartmouth did

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Speaker 4: bestow an honorary degree to make him an official doctor.

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Speaker 2: When are we gonna get one of those?

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Speaker 4: I've been waiting a long time, Chuck.

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Speaker 2: And are they as worthless as I think they are?

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Speaker 4: Totally? Yeah? I mean sure you'll get like the discount

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Speaker 4: at Wendy's that they offer, But that's that's really the

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Speaker 4: only perk aside from saying, like, I'm a doctor.

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Speaker 2: Can you really call yourself that? Though?

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Speaker 4: Sure?

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Speaker 2: Like only chumps do that, right, Like you have to

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Speaker 2: call me doctor now, dude.

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Speaker 4: You you will see me telling people to call me

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Speaker 4: doctor Clark. Okay, I'll just I'll be more personal. I'll

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Speaker 4: be doctor Josh like a chiropractor.

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Speaker 2: I could see you going off and getting your pH

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Speaker 2: d one day.

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Speaker 4: Nah nah nah, I want the audit from Bowling Green

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Speaker 4: State University in Ohio.

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Speaker 2: The backdoor version pretty much, yeah version, all right?

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Speaker 1: So he got the doctor on the name, became doctor Soyer,

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Speaker 1: and from then on he never wrote under his given

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Speaker 1: name again. He was always doctor swye from that point

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Speaker 1: for should we take a break.

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Speaker 4: You can see me getting a PhD. Yeah, this late

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Speaker 4: in my career. Yeah, this mid in my career. Sure,

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Speaker 4: huh am I like Natalie Portman or something?

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Speaker 2: Yes, all right, let's take a break.

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Speaker 5: Softly, Josh soft.

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Speaker 4: All right?

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Speaker 2: Natalie nat uh I wish right.

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Speaker 4: I'll bet Natalie Portman hates being called Nat. You think

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Speaker 4: she seems like the type of Natalie who would hate

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Speaker 4: being called Nat.

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Speaker 2: Let's find out, doctor Portman.

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Speaker 4: Natalie Portman, will you please get in touch with this

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Speaker 4: and let us know whether you're cool with being called

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Speaker 4: Nat or not.

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Speaker 2: Well, hey, so we're on that big shout out to

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Speaker 2: mister Mark Ruffalo.

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Speaker 4: It was basically the male Natalie Portman.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: He tweeted out our Navajo Code Talkers episode, which means

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Speaker 1: that he's aware of this podcast and we're huge fan.

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Speaker 2: So if you're listening, man, thanks.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, thanks a lot and a lot. Not just aware

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Speaker 4: he liked it, he encouraged people to listen to Yeah.

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Speaker 4: He wasn't like, steer clear of this piece of poop. Right,

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Speaker 4: this is a good podcast, is what he was saying.

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Speaker 1: Man, I remember when I saw you can count on

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Speaker 1: me for the first time. Oh my god, that movie

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Speaker 1: wrecked me.

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Speaker 4: It was such a good movie. Yeah, not just the

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Speaker 4: first time, like just every time you watch that movie

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Speaker 4: is wonderful.

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Speaker 1: It's really great. So I have another show called Movie Crush.

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Speaker 1: Mister Ruffalo would love to have you on. We'll just

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Speaker 1: leave it there, all right, So all right, here's what happens. Okay,

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Speaker 1: Teddy Geisel starts doing ads, yeah, and does quite well.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. I mean, if you're an ad illustrator, you basically

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Speaker 4: do what you're told. Client says, this is what we want.

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Speaker 4: He was the kind of artist who, because of his

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Speaker 4: distinctive style, his style is what the clients wanted. So

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Speaker 4: as an ad illustrator, he became nationally famous.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, which is crazy to think of now.

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Speaker 4: It really is. His first big break was for something

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Speaker 4: called Flit. It was a bug spray and if you

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Speaker 4: look at the Flit ads, they have a picture of

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Speaker 4: the flit and it was that old timey Tom and

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Speaker 4: Jerry Pump candidate's like, couldn't be more poisonous?

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Speaker 2: Post out like a cloud of noxious smoke.

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Speaker 4: So that formed like a skull and crossbones in the air, basically, right,

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Speaker 4: that's what he was drawing stuff for and he came

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Speaker 4: up with a catchphrase because he wasn't just illustrating, he

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Speaker 4: was also copywriting in these ads, and he came up

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Speaker 4: with quick Henry the flit, and that just became a

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Speaker 4: national catchphrase.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like where's the beef?

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Speaker 4: Right, like somebody's pestering You're just like to somebody else,

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Speaker 4: Quick Henry the flit. That's how I probably would have

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Speaker 4: used it. But so he became known for that, and

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Speaker 4: then a second egg campaign made him even bigger.

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Speaker 1: Oh right, so he did flit for seventeen years, dude,

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Speaker 1: which is like I thought, yeah, sure, he did that

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Speaker 1: for a couple of years, right, I mean there's almost

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Speaker 1: two decades of doing those ads, made a lot of money,

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Speaker 1: kept him, you know, nice and employed through the Great Depression.

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Speaker 1: And then this one's even weirder. He went to work

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Speaker 1: for Standard Oil, who had ESO Oil and so So Gas,

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Speaker 1: and this was ESO Marine, which was their boat oil.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: In nineteen thirty four, he has this pr idea to

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Speaker 1: create a fake navy.

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Speaker 4: The Sous Navy, the SEUs Navy, which is nothing. He

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Speaker 4: just made it up out of nowhere to promote the

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Speaker 4: ESO Marine oil. Yeah, and it worked, yeah, because he

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Speaker 4: basically drafted people into his navy. He would draw like

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Speaker 4: famous figures like say eleanor Roosevelt or something like that,

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Speaker 4: dressed up in the sous navy uniform or whatever, and

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Speaker 4: it became a thing like people wanted to be in it,

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Speaker 4: so they would apply to be in it. And I

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Speaker 4: guess so So would hold a party every year and

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Speaker 4: just pull out all the stops and there would be

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Speaker 4: this lavish so Seuss Navy party.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's called what the Seuss Navy Luncheon and.

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Speaker 4: Frolic That sounds so like thirties.

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Speaker 1: They had two thousand admirals and they included among them

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Speaker 1: Vincent Astor and Guy Lombardo, famous bandleader. And as this

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Speaker 1: is a Grabstarre article is ed put it, they were

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Speaker 1: what you would call like tastemakers today, like wealthy influential

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Speaker 1: Americans wanted to be in this fake navy, to go

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Speaker 1: to this luncheon and frolic. Right, And he wrote these

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Speaker 1: little navy story booklets and it astonishingly it was a

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Speaker 1: big deal and it actually worked. And when you look

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Speaker 1: at him there they look like Doctor Seuss books like right,

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Speaker 1: It's not like he changed his style.

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Speaker 4: No, No, this is the thing. Like he became famous

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Speaker 4: for famous and salt after for his style.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: And weirdly enough, he said that the only reason he

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Speaker 1: went into children's books initially was because his standard oil

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Speaker 1: contract didn't forbid it. Huh, Like that was some of

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Speaker 1: the work that he was allowed to do with outside.

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Speaker 4: Gotcha.

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Speaker 1: He never he was like, it's not like I had

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Speaker 1: a great thing for kids.

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Speaker 4: Well, he even said very famously multiple times that he

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Speaker 4: didn't write for kids. He wrote for people.

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Speaker 1: And he also famously said, you have kids, I'll entertain them.

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Speaker 4: Right. Yeah, he didn't want kids, did not want kids, No,

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Speaker 4: and he never had them, so his wish came true.

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Speaker 4: So he was already pretty famous by the time World

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Speaker 4: War two came around and he actually volunteered to become

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Speaker 4: a soldier, but he was sent to Hollywood to work

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Speaker 4: at what was called Fort Fox.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is strange. I mean I had heard of

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Speaker 2: the Signal Corps.

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Speaker 4: Well, the Signal Core is everything from code like code

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Speaker 4: and code all the way to psychological operations.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I thought the Signal Corps was just like the

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Speaker 1: people that made documentaries and stuff.

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Speaker 4: This was a division within the Signal Corps gotcha, and

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Speaker 4: so he was basically in this division with Frank Capra

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Speaker 4: and some other like screenwriters, actors, like basically anybody who

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Speaker 4: had anything to do with visual entertainment was put into

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Speaker 4: this group in Hollywood on the Fox Lot at what

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Speaker 4: was called Fort Fox, and that's where he spent most

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Speaker 4: of the war, although there was a fascinating story about

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Speaker 4: a time when he went to Europe because he had

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Speaker 4: to go get approvals for a documentary he had worked

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Speaker 4: on from all the high ranking generals in Europe. So

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Speaker 4: we went from headquarters to headquarters throughout Europe. And while

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Speaker 4: he was in Luxembourg, he visited some of his friends

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Speaker 4: and he basically got the skinny they think on the

399
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Speaker 4: Ghost Army, you know the Ghost Army where they had

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Speaker 4: inflatable tanks and like it was meant to make America's

401
00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:04,360
Speaker 4: military look way bigger than it was, and these guys

402
00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:08,040
Speaker 4: were running psychological operations. Well, doctor Seuss was friends with

403
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Speaker 4: some of the higher ups in the Ghost Army, and

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Speaker 4: they think that they showed him on a map like

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Speaker 4: where to go to go see some of these Well,

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00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:19,399
Speaker 4: in between the time he left and the time he

407
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Speaker 4: got there, that was suddenly behind enemy lines.

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Speaker 1: Ye had the Battle of the Bulge literally started around him,

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Speaker 1: around him.

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Speaker 4: Well, he was yeah, and he was like, I was

411
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Speaker 4: just driving around thinking like it was just hard to

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Speaker 4: find friendly troops, like as.

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Speaker 2: Part of combat Belgium, sure is pretty.

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Speaker 4: But he ended up inadvertently spending three days ten miles

415
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Speaker 4: behind enemy lines during the Battle of the Bulge and

416
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Speaker 4: just barely made it out with his life.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he was rescued by the Brits. But he would

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Speaker 1: eventually become a lieutenant colonel. Yeah, in his short stint

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Speaker 1: as a late thirty year old he's I think thirty

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Speaker 1: eight when he first went in, right, which really kind

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Speaker 1: of interesting piece of backstory.

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Speaker 4: Well, he was we left out a pretty big part

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Speaker 4: of his formative years early on in his career was

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Speaker 4: he wanted to become He wanted to have a say

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Speaker 4: in the direction America took in World War Two, and

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Speaker 4: he was very much in favor of going to war

427
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Speaker 4: against the Nazis and Japan in Italy. And one of

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Speaker 4: the reasons why he was in favor was because he

429
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Speaker 4: was extremely anti fascist. He hated fascism and he got

430
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Speaker 4: a job at a liberal magazine I think a newspaper

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Speaker 4: actually called PM that was founded in New York and

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Speaker 4: it was founded with the I to basically call people

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Speaker 4: out who are pushing other people around. It very liberal,

434
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Speaker 4: very anti fascist, very pro World War Two, although they

435
00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:48,520
Speaker 4: didn't call it that at the time, and it was

436
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:54,960
Speaker 4: very anti isolationists too, And doctor Seuss was drawing editorial cartoons,

437
00:21:55,200 --> 00:22:00,680
Speaker 4: very political editorial cartoons, about seven days a week for

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Speaker 4: this magazine, and he did some really good work in it.

439
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Speaker 1: Actually, well yeah, and then in the in the Army

440
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:12,040
Speaker 1: he actually made films. He was he's making documentaries right

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Speaker 1: alongside Frank Capra. He had one series of training videos

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Speaker 1: called Private Snaffoo that were animated, but they were.

443
00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:21,520
Speaker 2: The work of Chuck Jones.

444
00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:24,360
Speaker 1: Actually, it's just so crazy about all this talent that's

445
00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:26,439
Speaker 1: like in the Army producing these things at the time.

446
00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:30,480
Speaker 1: But he went on to make live action documentaries, one

447
00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:33,680
Speaker 1: called Your Job in Germany, another called Our Job in Japan.

448
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:38,639
Speaker 1: MacArthur stopped the release of Our Job in Japan, and

449
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:43,440
Speaker 1: apparently General Patten stormed out of a screening of one

450
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:45,520
Speaker 1: of the other ones. And I couldn't find the word,

451
00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:48,399
Speaker 1: but it said he uttered one loud curse word.

452
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:50,480
Speaker 4: Oh you couldn't find it, No, do you? Did you?

453
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:51,840
Speaker 4: It was bs?

454
00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:52,280
Speaker 2: Oh?

455
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:55,119
Speaker 1: Okay, but he's trying to think of what it would be. Sure,

456
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:58,119
Speaker 1: I was like, but one word. So it wasn't the

457
00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:01,399
Speaker 1: F word unless it was just a very just long

458
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:06,560
Speaker 1: drawn out you know, all right, Yes, that makes sense.

459
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, which I don't understand. I don't know what the

460
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:13,359
Speaker 4: problem was. But they were both the our job in

461
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:17,320
Speaker 4: Japan or your job in Germany? Yeah, where was about

462
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:23,960
Speaker 4: occupation post post occupation life in Germany or Japan? And what?

463
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:24,360
Speaker 5: Yeah?

464
00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:26,399
Speaker 2: You can watch your job in Germany on YouTube.

465
00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:28,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, and our job in Japan too.

466
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:28,800
Speaker 2: Yeah.

467
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:32,359
Speaker 1: So he he recut those basically kind of rewrote and

468
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:35,879
Speaker 1: recut those later on and retitled them Hitler Lives and

469
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:36,920
Speaker 1: Designed for Death.

470
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:40,600
Speaker 4: No he didn't. They were recut around him without his say.

471
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:41,199
Speaker 2: Oh no no.

472
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:43,560
Speaker 1: He and his wife later got those films, oh, and

473
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:45,200
Speaker 1: recut them and won an Academy award.

474
00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:48,080
Speaker 4: Oh okay, yeah, I had read that a producer went

475
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:51,240
Speaker 4: and did some recutting against their wishes and made it

476
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:53,760
Speaker 4: way worse than they originally intended.

477
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:57,080
Speaker 1: Well, that may have happened, and then maybe they then

478
00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:00,360
Speaker 1: later on re recut it got the Oscar for their version, right,

479
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:02,560
Speaker 1: I don't know, okay, but we left out a lot

480
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:07,240
Speaker 1: actually because he was actually had previous to the Army,

481
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:10,879
Speaker 1: had already written children's books. Like he went fully into

482
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:14,719
Speaker 1: this because of a ship trip that he took. Okay,

483
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:16,840
Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty six, let's.

484
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:17,840
Speaker 4: Walk it back a little bit.

485
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 1: They went on a transatlantic voyage aboard the MS kungs Holme,

486
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:28,119
Speaker 1: and apparently the ship's engine had this beat, this hypnotic

487
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:32,199
Speaker 1: throbbing sound that just really stuck with him and it

488
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:35,720
Speaker 1: got into his head, and so he started composing rhyming

489
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:37,800
Speaker 1: couplets that match with this rhythm.

490
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:44,639
Speaker 4: Kind of like that's my ss Kung's home impressions.

491
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:48,359
Speaker 1: All right, Well, it ended up being what's called anapestic tetrameter,

492
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:52,640
Speaker 1: which is what he would make his career on this

493
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 1: poetic meter.

494
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:58,000
Speaker 4: You know what that made me think of, Chuck? That like,

495
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 4: I've never heard those words together in my life, But

496
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:05,560
Speaker 4: no one ever taught me how to read a Doctor

497
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 4: Seuss book. It's almost like we have some ingrain thing

498
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:12,359
Speaker 4: in our brain to read things in that kind of rhythm,

499
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:15,439
Speaker 4: or you know what I mean? Or is it just

500
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:17,200
Speaker 4: like my parents read that to me, and that's where

501
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 4: I picked it up from. But who taught them? I

502
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,640
Speaker 4: never taught anybody how to read something in rhymes. It's

503
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 4: just like you just know intuitive and even when you

504
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 4: when you when you're not reading it in the right rhythm,

505
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:30,439
Speaker 4: your brain realizes it and corrects you and you go

506
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:32,919
Speaker 4: back and reread it the right way. Like when you

507
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:34,480
Speaker 4: get to the next line, you're like, oh, wait, that's

508
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 4: out a beat or whatever. Like you figure it out naturally,

509
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:39,639
Speaker 4: and I wonder why we're geared toward that.

510
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:40,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

511
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:42,280
Speaker 1: It's funny too, because I obviously read a lot of

512
00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 1: kids books every night now, and some of them are great,

513
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 1: and some of them just like, they'll do a word

514
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:50,879
Speaker 1: that doesn't quite rhyme, and I'm always like come on,

515
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 1: come on, or they'll stuff too much in a line

516
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:57,600
Speaker 1: and it's not like graceful. In the read I'm like, man,

517
00:25:57,840 --> 00:25:58,480
Speaker 1: this is lame.

518
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:01,119
Speaker 4: Do better or engine door hinge.

519
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:02,880
Speaker 2: Hey, that's not bad.

520
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:06,160
Speaker 4: Well that's eminet Oh okay. He very famously can rhyme

521
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:08,440
Speaker 4: something with orange, which I found out because I think

522
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:09,840
Speaker 4: I said nothing rhymes with orange.

523
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 2: Well everyone's always said that because that's true.

524
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 4: Well I meant it door hinge.

525
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:15,399
Speaker 2: That's funny.

526
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:21,320
Speaker 1: So he created a children's book on that anapestic tetramet

527
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 1: called and this is a story no one can beat

528
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,920
Speaker 1: that was later changed and published in nineteen thirty seven.

529
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 1: As and to think that I saw it on Mulberry

530
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:33,200
Speaker 1: Street because he had an old friend that he ran

531
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,160
Speaker 1: into from Dartmouth that turned out to be a children's

532
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:37,639
Speaker 1: book editor at Vanguard Press.

533
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 4: So I read an account of the story and the

534
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:44,439
Speaker 4: person saying telling the story said, had he been walking

535
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:46,160
Speaker 4: on the other side of the street that day, he

536
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 4: may have never become a children's author. Yeah, like it

537
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:53,920
Speaker 4: was that fateful. His friend from Dartmouth was a new

538
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 4: children's book editor at Vanguard, you said, yeah, and it

539
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 4: was so new that he was looking for a material

540
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:04,639
Speaker 4: and doctor Seuss happened to be walking around with the

541
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 4: manuscript on him and just happened to be down there,

542
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 4: and they ran into each other and this book got

543
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 4: published and that was the one where he first made

544
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:15,439
Speaker 4: his name as a children's book writer. You're right, and

545
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:17,240
Speaker 4: shout out to Stephen Barr, book agent.

546
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 2: That's right.

547
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:23,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, So this, this and a pestic tetrameter is what

548
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 1: he basically stuck with the rest of his career. He

549
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 1: would alter it here and there, use other meters here

550
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 1: and there, but this is where he you know, as

551
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 1: Ed said, that was his bread and butter. And it's

552
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 1: very waltz like you can count it off in three

553
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 1: four time. And it just was sort of perfect for

554
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:41,439
Speaker 1: kids books, right.

555
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:43,879
Speaker 4: And with that first kid's book, and to think I

556
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 4: saw it on Mulberry Street. Apparently it's about a kid named

557
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:48,919
Speaker 4: Marco who sees a horse and cart on his street

558
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:51,879
Speaker 4: and as he's retelling it, it just becomes this bigger

559
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:55,679
Speaker 4: and bigger and more like bizarre and grand thing that

560
00:27:55,760 --> 00:28:00,719
Speaker 4: he saw. And this will come back later on in episode.

561
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, so he's writing these books. He's doing okay. His

562
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 1: fourth book was called Horton Hatches the Egg. I think

563
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 1: that's where we first meet Horton, but he wasn't like

564
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 1: lighting the world on fire. And then that's when he

565
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 1: goes in the army.

566
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 4: Right, and let me tell you the story about getting

567
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:21,359
Speaker 4: caught in the Battle of the Bulge. Again, here we go.

568
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 4: So he makes it through World War two, he escapes

569
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 4: with his life from the Battle of the Bulge, and

570
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:29,399
Speaker 4: when he comes out of World War two, he goes

571
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 4: right back to writing books, and he wrote a few

572
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:37,440
Speaker 4: more in the forties. I believe he wrote Urdle the Turtle,

573
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 4: which I know is an allegory four Hitler, and he

574
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 4: was on record say yeah, apparently the early drafts of

575
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 4: it he had drawn a Hitler mustache on Jurdle the

576
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 4: Turtle and it's about anti authoritarian Is that.

577
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 2: Hitler or Michael Jordan?

578
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 4: Does he have a Hitler mustache?

579
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 1: He did very famously, and this one Haines Stevie commercial

580
00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 1: and everyone was like, uh, has someone not told him?

581
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 2: I didn't see that. Yeah, I'll have to show you picture.

582
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 4: I have my head in the sand like I was

583
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 4: Charles Limberg or something.

584
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 2: Oh that's a nice circular rest.

585
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 4: It's just for you and me. So he was writing

586
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 4: some more and he was I mean, he was selling

587
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 4: like thousands of copies every time he released a book.

588
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 4: He was a known children's author. He'd already established his

589
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 4: style as something that was pretty recognizable around the United States.

590
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 4: But it wasn't until the mid fifties that things really

591
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 4: changed for him. Yeah, oh wow, it is a Hitler fuste.

592
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 4: There's no mistake in that.

593
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 2: It's a decision.

594
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:45,479
Speaker 4: So I think in nineteen fifty five, there was a

595
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 4: book written called why Can't Johnny Read? Right?

596
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 2: Okay?

597
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 4: And a guy named Rudolph Flesh, And I realized what

598
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:54,719
Speaker 4: we've jumped over. We'll get back to sure, I'm not

599
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 4: ready for it yet, all right, a guy named Rudolph Flesh,

600
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 4: alf Flesh, Yeah, fl Age, that'd be a good one though. Yeah,

601
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 4: you'd have to call yourself Rudy too. And anyway, Rudolf Flesh,

602
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 4: he wrote Why Can't Johnny Read? And it was basically

603
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 4: like an indictment of the American public school system, the

604
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 4: education system, and how we taught kids to read. And

605
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 4: it was equally an indictment of like Dick and Jane,

606
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 4: and the way that kids used to read or be

607
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 4: taught to read was just basically, here are words on

608
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 4: a page, memorize them. Yeah, this is a red ball.

609
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 4: This is the word read. Don't be an idiot. Red ball.

610
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 2: It's kind of the worst way to teach kids stuff.

611
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 4: It is. And the guy in the article said, he

612
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 4: wrote an article in Life later on too. He said,

613
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 4: you know who'd be a great children's book author to

614
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 4: teach kids how to read is doctor Seuss. He's kids,

615
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 4: He's already writing books for kids. Yeah, but if he

616
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 4: just directed that toward actually teaching him how to read,

617
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 4: kids would definitely want that. And it turns out that

618
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:05,480
Speaker 4: an editor, I think at Houghton Mifflin or somebody wherever

619
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 4: doctor Seuss was writing at the time, thunder Mifflin, thunder Mifflin,

620
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 4: you got me. He said, that's actually a pretty good idea.

621
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:16,280
Speaker 4: And that's where we got the cat in the hat.

622
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 1: That's right, it was. It was originally meant as a

623
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 1: reading primer. I think there were two twenty five two

624
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty five words, and very famously, his editor

625
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 1: bet him after that that he could not write a

626
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 1: book with only fifty words. And he went, take this book,

627
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 1: Green Eggs and Ham, and shove it and shove it

628
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 1: and give me my fifty dollars, right, And that is

629
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 1: supposedly true. His editor bet him that he could not

630
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 1: do so, and that's where Green Eggs and Ham came from.

631
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's fifty words exactly, that's right. So he

632
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 4: at this point he went from ed says, he went

633
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 4: from being a well known children's author to probably the

634
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:56,520
Speaker 4: best known children's author in the world. Yeah, he'd shown

635
00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 4: not only could he write fun, whimsical stories with the

636
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 4: disguised moral lesson in the middle of it too, with

637
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 4: great illustrations and hand drawn fonts and all that he

638
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 4: could actually teach the world's children how to read English

639
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 4: at least.

640
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:13,480
Speaker 2: Yeah.

641
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 1: And then from that success he wrote that same year

642
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:19,200
Speaker 1: How the Grinch Stole Christmas.

643
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 4: That's a big year, man, very big year. So cant

644
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 4: and the Grinch the same year, right, yeah, okay.

645
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, which is just amazing.

646
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 1: And then in nineteen sixty six, of course, we get

647
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 1: the very famous TV cartoon adaptation, which people still love

648
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 1: and enjoy today, including me.

649
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 4: Oh yeah.

650
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 1: And he ended up being so successful that they gave

651
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 1: him his own imprint at Random House. With his wife,

652
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 1: Helen Palmer Geisel, who was kind of by all accounts

653
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 1: that the.

654
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 2: Woman behind the Man. Oh yeah, she was an author herself.

655
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 1: She wrote quite a few books, one called do you

656
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 1: Know what I'm going to do Next Saturday to You?

657
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 2: One called I Know did Last Summer?

658
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 5: Man?

659
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 2: It's funny adding those two words just makes it threaten.

660
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 1: It's a horror novel, one called Why I Built the

661
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 1: Google House, and one called I Was Kissed by a

662
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 1: Seal at the zoo.

663
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 4: That sounds great.

664
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 1: So I didn't want to just kind of wash over

665
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 1: her because she she was an author and very sadly,

666
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 1: she ended up committing suicide very late in life.

667
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, within a couple of years of an affair that

668
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:33,080
Speaker 4: he had. Yeah, and he'd apparently have multiple affairs in her.

669
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 4: Her suicide note supposedly referenced this, this feeling that she'd

670
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 4: kind of been overshadowed by him in his career. Yeah,

671
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:44,160
Speaker 4: And like you said, she was very much the woman

672
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 4: behind the man, and I.

673
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 1: Think expected to support him and all that thing, and

674
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 1: she did.

675
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 4: She put her own career away so that she could

676
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 4: handle his correspondence and business affairs. She was in charge

677
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 4: of correspondence to like sick kids that wrote them, or

678
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 4: entire classes, and yeah, she was she was all. He

679
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 4: was the artistic genius who just needed to be left

680
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 4: alone so he could make these books every year, and

681
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 4: she handled everything else, right. And ask somebody to put

682
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 4: their career away so that you can have yours, that's

683
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 4: a big thing to ask somebody.

684
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean she was sixty nine when she and

685
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,880
Speaker 1: I, I believe, I said, committed suicide earlier. I apologize, I

686
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:25,359
Speaker 1: know we don't use that term anymore. Yeah, So we

687
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 1: say now that she died by suicide, right.

688
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, because committed makes it sound like, oh my god,

689
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:31,719
Speaker 4: she committed a sin.

690
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we people have written in about that, and

691
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 1: we were both glad to be made aware of that.

692
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:39,799
Speaker 1: So she was sixty nine years old and apparently also

693
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:46,279
Speaker 1: suffered from Gilliam Bear Barr game Barre syndrome.

694
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:48,920
Speaker 4: Yeah. We got corrected on that some other time. It's

695
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:50,319
Speaker 4: how I remember of.

696
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:50,920
Speaker 2: How to pronounce it.

697
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 4: Yeah.

698
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 1: So I mean, who knows why someone eventually takes that

699
00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:57,319
Speaker 1: path in life.

700
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 2: Could be a lot of factors. Yeah. Yeah.

701
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 1: October twenty third, nineteen sixty seven, she overdosed on medication.

702
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:07,480
Speaker 4: After they've been married for forty years too. Yeah, man,

703
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 4: And so shortly after that he married Audrey Diamond. Yes, Geisel,

704
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:18,839
Speaker 4: who's his widow? Who is I belief still alive in

705
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:20,840
Speaker 4: basically running his estate still.

706
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, her name was Audrey Stone Diamond, but it was

707
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 1: dm N d no A.

708
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, which is interesting.

709
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 4: I wonder if it's it's very efficient.

710
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 2: But yes, she became soys and he went just go

711
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 2: ahead and get used to it.

712
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:38,520
Speaker 4: It's sus She's like, really I've always said, soys, He's like,

713
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:39,160
Speaker 4: I love you.

714
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:43,839
Speaker 1: And she had two daughters, and he said, I bet

715
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 1: you they'd love boarding school. Yeah, and she went okay.

716
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:50,919
Speaker 1: And she later on even said, this is a direct quote.

717
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 1: She said they wouldn't have been happy with Ted, and

718
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:54,719
Speaker 1: Ted wouldn't have been happy with them.

719
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:57,680
Speaker 4: Yeah. He really did not want kids or kids to

720
00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:00,040
Speaker 4: be around. He just liked doing the books that he

721
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 4: like to do.

722
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 2: It's pretty interesting.

723
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:07,799
Speaker 4: So that nineteen fifty seven year, that was a big

724
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 4: breakout year for him, and that was kind of the

725
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:16,920
Speaker 4: year that he became the Doctor Seuss that we see.

726
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 4: But he kept writing for many, many years, I mean

727
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 4: up until his death in nineteen ninety one. He apparently

728
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:29,880
Speaker 4: cranked out like a book a year. Yeah, some of

729
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:33,520
Speaker 4: them over time kind of took on much more progressive

730
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 4: tones until he became the Doctor Seuss that we see today.

731
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:43,520
Speaker 4: So prior to that, though, in recent years, some people

732
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 4: have kind of said, hey, you know, doctor Seuss had

733
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:51,160
Speaker 4: some really racist, bigoted stuff in his early work. And

734
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 4: it's become kind of this national conversation to kind of

735
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:59,319
Speaker 4: figure out how to do this, because everyone loves Doctor Seuss.

736
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 4: Doctor Seuss, there's nobody who doesn't like doctor Seuss. But

737
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:07,719
Speaker 4: if you are his work, I should say sure. But

738
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 4: if you if you start digging into, especially some of

739
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 4: his early work, it becomes problematic.

740
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:14,720
Speaker 2: And you want you want to take a break.

741
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, all right, let's take a break and

742
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 1: we will take part in that national conversation right after.

743
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:34,760
Speaker 5: This softly jawsh soff.

744
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:43,680
Speaker 4: All right, Chuck, So it's national conversation time. So doctor Seuss,

745
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 4: especially in his earliest work as Jack O'Lantern and judge writer,

746
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:52,239
Speaker 4: the Humor magazine writer, a lot of his stuff was

747
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:55,960
Speaker 4: extremely racist. Yes, as Ed puts it, not just racist

748
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:58,800
Speaker 4: for the time, but but monstrously racist stuff.

749
00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:06,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, like full on blackface caricatures. It depicted African American

750
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 1: characters as lazy as savages, have too many kids. He

751
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:15,520
Speaker 1: made jokes about slavery. There's one we can't even read

752
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 1: on this show, but it's awful.

753
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:24,440
Speaker 4: Yeah right. He also, especially as after Pearl Harbor, directed

754
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:29,840
Speaker 4: a lot of his creative energy toward making ugly caricatures

755
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:35,040
Speaker 4: of Japan and depicting Japanese and Japanese Americans in really

756
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:36,560
Speaker 4: unflattering light too.

757
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:40,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, and apparently supported internment and this isn't you know,

758
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 1: you don't want to drag somebody through the mud. But

759
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:45,879
Speaker 1: if we're going to give a picture of the man,

760
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 1: this is who he was earlier in his life.

761
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:51,040
Speaker 4: Right. So Ed makes a really good point. I think

762
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:53,560
Speaker 4: Ed's a great American for the way that he kind

763
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:59,399
Speaker 4: of kind of handled this too. He's saying that if

764
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:02,360
Speaker 4: you look at his early stuff, he was a younger

765
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:05,239
Speaker 4: man at the time, And I think we should also

766
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 4: say it qualifies as like none of this excuses anything. Sure,

767
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:12,000
Speaker 4: but you know, look at the whole picture of the person.

768
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 4: If you look at his earlier stuff or his worst,

769
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:20,279
Speaker 4: most racist stuff is when he was youngest, and his

770
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:23,040
Speaker 4: most progressive stuff that everybody knows and loves is Doctor

771
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 4: Seuss when the world was kind of changing too.

772
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:28,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not like in nineteen eighty nine he was like,

773
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:29,880
Speaker 1: I'm going to deliver I'm going to serve up a

774
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:31,400
Speaker 1: good old racist cartoon.

775
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:33,360
Speaker 4: Right exactly. It's not like he invented sea monkeys or

776
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:37,080
Speaker 4: something like that. Right, So he kind of progressed with

777
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 4: the world. And not only did he progress with the

778
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:42,279
Speaker 4: world and kind of change his views to take on

779
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 4: much more progressive stuff, themes like bigotry with the sneeches

780
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:54,279
Speaker 4: is about discriminating against people and just how ridiculous that

781
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:57,680
Speaker 4: is how people are actually people. A lot of people

782
00:39:57,680 --> 00:39:59,880
Speaker 4: point to Horton hears It, who as a bit of

783
00:39:59,880 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 4: a mia Kulpa for his treatment of the Japanese prior

784
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:08,759
Speaker 4: to World War two and during World War Two. The

785
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 4: Lorax is obviously pro environmentalism. Yeah.

786
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 1: He fully changed one of his books altogether, an earlier

787
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:16,879
Speaker 1: version of.

788
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:19,640
Speaker 4: And to Think I Saw On on Mulberry Street.

789
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:21,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, it had the word Chinaman in there.

790
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:25,359
Speaker 4: It was worse than chinaman, and.

791
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 1: He changed that to Chinese person like in the publication

792
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:29,440
Speaker 1: of the book for future printings.

793
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:37,080
Speaker 4: Right, So he definitely evolved his works of alved He

794
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:39,719
Speaker 4: never came out and publicly said, hey, I'm really sorry

795
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 4: about all the racist stuff that I did earlier. Yeah,

796
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:46,279
Speaker 4: by the time he died in nineteen ninety, I think

797
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:48,880
Speaker 4: that that really wasn't the way that the world was

798
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:52,440
Speaker 4: turning at the time. But he does seem to have

799
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 4: evolved and changed with the times and did go back

800
00:40:56,080 --> 00:41:00,239
Speaker 4: and revise some stuff that had crept into his work.

801
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:03,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, And this has come to light more prominently in

802
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:06,640
Speaker 1: the past few years. Because there have been like some

803
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:11,319
Speaker 1: book festivals and children's literature festivals that have either been

804
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:14,919
Speaker 1: boycotted or where they've sort of tried to make him

805
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:18,560
Speaker 1: a little less prominent. The cat and the hat I

806
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:22,840
Speaker 1: think was used. Wasn't it like an official.

807
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:25,480
Speaker 4: Read across America? Right, here's the mascot for it.

808
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:27,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, And did they officially remove the cat?

809
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:29,960
Speaker 4: And I think they've backed a little bit away from

810
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:32,720
Speaker 4: the cat and the hat as a mascot, if not entirely.

811
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:36,160
Speaker 4: And I think that they've kind of like Doctor Seus's

812
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:38,680
Speaker 4: books are not like the focal point of the Read

813
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 4: Across America campaign like they were.

814
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 1: Right, And then last year, Millennia Trump made the news

815
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 1: when she gifted a library some Doctor Seuss books, and

816
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 1: the librarian refused that gift and said they are steeped

817
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 1: and racist propaganda, caricatures and harmful stereotypes.

818
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 4: I don't know that that all is necessarily true, is it?

819
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 2: Yeah? You know, I think that might have been a

820
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:02,239
Speaker 2: little too harsh.

821
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:05,879
Speaker 4: Well, I mean, if it's if I'm wrong, I want

822
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:08,400
Speaker 4: to know. The only thing that I've seen that could

823
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:11,520
Speaker 4: be pointed to in his work, like his books, was

824
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:16,840
Speaker 4: the was the reference in drawing of the Chinese guy. Yeah,

825
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:19,480
Speaker 4: in his first book, and to think I saw it

826
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 4: on Mulberry Street. I didn't see anything else. I saw

827
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:24,480
Speaker 4: some reference that maybe the cat in the hat was

828
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:28,240
Speaker 4: supposed to be blackfaced, but I saw that one place

829
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 4: right nowhere Else. It seemed to be as earlier work,

830
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:35,320
Speaker 4: not as children's books. And I didn't see any racist

831
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:39,440
Speaker 4: propaganda that had that was hidden in the books. If anything,

832
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:42,239
Speaker 4: the books that you would give a library, and I

833
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:44,759
Speaker 4: don't know what title she gave, would have been the

834
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:46,000
Speaker 4: more progressive stuff.

835
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:48,719
Speaker 1: Yes, she didn't go there and say here, look, here's

836
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:51,080
Speaker 1: the old jack o lantern, here's the really dirty stuff,

837
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:55,759
Speaker 1: college humor, racist cartoons, and yeah. To say that his

838
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:58,920
Speaker 1: work was steeped in racist propaganda when talking about the

839
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 1: children's books, is, I agree, is not accurate.

840
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:01,279
Speaker 2: Right.

841
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:04,879
Speaker 4: What I'm trying to figure out is is that librarian

842
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 4: hip to something we don't know about, right or not.

843
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:11,120
Speaker 4: I'm very curious to know, Like, if we didn't dig

844
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:15,240
Speaker 4: quite deep enough, I'm a little surprised because you know us, Yeah,

845
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 4: but I want to know if we're missing something.

846
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:18,680
Speaker 2: Then Yeah, for sure.

847
00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 1: I found an article where they were just asking a

848
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:24,640
Speaker 1: lot of professionals in children's literature what they thought about

849
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:26,719
Speaker 1: all this, Because I'm a big dummy, you know, I

850
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 1: don't know how to figure this stuff out of my

851
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 1: own And Anne Neely, she's a professor of children's lit

852
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:35,360
Speaker 1: at Vanderbilt, said this, just as every author illustrator is.

853
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:37,480
Speaker 1: I think Theodore Geisel was a product of his time.

854
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:40,799
Speaker 1: We should not judge him by today's standards, but we

855
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:43,160
Speaker 1: must evaluate his books that we decide to share with

856
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:45,280
Speaker 1: children using today's standards.

857
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:46,520
Speaker 4: That is a really great point.

858
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:48,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, we can outwallow in our own nostalgia when we

859
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:50,760
Speaker 1: make choices for the books we share with young children.

860
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 1: There's simply too many outstanding books available.

861
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:55,920
Speaker 4: Well, especially also if the books that were raising our

862
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 4: kids on it's new to them, right, if it is

863
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,920
Speaker 4: steeped and ra propaganda that we're not realizing we're sharing

864
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:05,400
Speaker 4: or perpetuating, then yeah, that shouldn't be the case.

865
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:07,880
Speaker 1: And Ed makes the great point that in the nineteen

866
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:13,080
Speaker 1: twenties and thirties it was the exceptional American who broke

867
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 1: out of that mold and was very progressive. And I

868
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:20,280
Speaker 1: wish he would have been one of those, but he wasn't.

869
00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:22,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I think That's one of the reasons why

870
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:25,960
Speaker 4: there's such a cognitive dissonance when you find this stuff

871
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:29,640
Speaker 4: out is because that's what you think of doctor Seuss

872
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:32,279
Speaker 4: based on his work, that like, he would be that

873
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:35,239
Speaker 4: kind of guy, but he was human. His work is

874
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:38,080
Speaker 4: larger than him because I think what it is. And

875
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:39,720
Speaker 4: that's the case with just about everything.

876
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:42,080
Speaker 1: It seems like, yeah, I mean, I don't want this

877
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:44,520
Speaker 1: to taint to your reading of how the Grinch Stole

878
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 1: Christmas this year.

879
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:48,479
Speaker 4: Although another thing that he was called out on once

880
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:52,080
Speaker 4: was his there was no female protagonist in any of

881
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 4: his books either.

882
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:55,759
Speaker 1: Again a product of the time. Yeah, he was a

883
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 1: man writing about little male characters.

884
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:01,400
Speaker 4: But he went and created a headed Mazie after that,

885
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:06,640
Speaker 4: so he so again, his books became more progressive further

886
00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:10,480
Speaker 4: on in his career and he handled things like segregation

887
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 4: and discrimination like with the Sneetches. The Butter Battle Book

888
00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:20,600
Speaker 4: was a clear, like glaring allegory for the Cold War,

889
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:24,239
Speaker 4: and The Mutual sur Destruction is Arms Race kind of

890
00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:28,800
Speaker 4: a haunting book that ends without any resolution, with both sides,

891
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:32,280
Speaker 4: the Yukes and the Zeukes, I think, with their bombs

892
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:35,080
Speaker 4: pointed at one another, and it doesn't it's not like

893
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:37,400
Speaker 4: and they lived happily ever after. It's like, what's going

894
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:41,200
Speaker 4: to happen? Yeah. And then his last book that he

895
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:43,520
Speaker 4: wrote and published while he was alive was Oh the

896
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:47,000
Speaker 4: Places You'll Go, which I had no idea, was published

897
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:48,080
Speaker 4: in nineteen ninety, did you.

898
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:50,400
Speaker 2: I didn't know anything about it.

899
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:54,279
Speaker 4: So it was it was his last book that was

900
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:57,680
Speaker 4: published while he was alive. It's also his top selling book.

901
00:45:58,200 --> 00:45:59,799
Speaker 4: So some of these other books have been around for

902
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:02,680
Speaker 4: decades longer than All the Places You'll Go. But All

903
00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:05,600
Speaker 4: the Places You'll Go is this top selling book because

904
00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:09,440
Speaker 4: it's given to grads every spring there's a new batch

905
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:12,040
Speaker 4: of graduates, Yeah, who get Oh the Places You'll Go

906
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:15,160
Speaker 4: as a gift, and like ten million copies have been sold.

907
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:17,840
Speaker 2: Because it's about like your future and what to wait to.

908
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:20,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, just like doing things and taking risks and like

909
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:23,520
Speaker 4: trying stuff and you can do it and it'll be

910
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:26,319
Speaker 4: hard and you're gonna run into two problems, but you

911
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 4: know you're you're a good person and you're going to

912
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 4: make good choices. And I have a story about this.

913
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:35,640
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, So last night I was talking to you MEI,

914
00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:37,400
Speaker 4: and I was like just out of nowhere. I was like,

915
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:39,120
Speaker 4: did you know that Oh the Places You'll Go was

916
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:42,160
Speaker 4: only published in nineteen ninety but it's Doctor Zeus's greatest

917
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:44,719
Speaker 4: selling book. And she just looked at me kind of

918
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:47,600
Speaker 4: like a little flabbergasted, like why would you say that.

919
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:50,520
Speaker 4: I was like, Oh, we're doing a Doctor SEUs episode tomorrow,

920
00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:53,439
Speaker 4: and she's like, that's really weird. I'll be right back,

921
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:56,359
Speaker 4: And she went into our bedroom and came back out

922
00:46:56,480 --> 00:46:59,040
Speaker 4: with a copy of Oh the Places You'll Go and said,

923
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 4: this has been an your pillow. She said, I was

924
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:03,840
Speaker 4: going to give this to you tomorrow for the last

925
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:06,040
Speaker 4: episode of the End of the World. Oh wow, But

926
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:08,600
Speaker 4: I just happened to bring it up the day before,

927
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:10,960
Speaker 4: and that's crazy. Yeah, I thought that was really surprised.

928
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 2: Man, how things work out.

929
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:14,239
Speaker 4: But I read it as recently as last night. I'm like,

930
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:17,759
Speaker 4: this is an amazing even for Seuss, it's an amazing book.

931
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 4: Like an article I read said that somebody said, like,

932
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:24,520
Speaker 4: you can tell that he knew this was the last

933
00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:26,360
Speaker 4: book that that was going to be published while he

934
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:28,239
Speaker 4: was alive, that he wanted this to be as his

935
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:29,080
Speaker 4: swan song.

936
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:32,880
Speaker 1: Interesting, Yeah, I would not be surprised. Talking about his

937
00:47:33,719 --> 00:47:37,200
Speaker 1: more progressive views and sort of catching up with the time.

938
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:41,320
Speaker 1: If either Helen and or Audrey as the women behind

939
00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:44,840
Speaker 1: the Man, weren't helping him along in that respect, sure

940
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:47,319
Speaker 1: and saying like hey, get with it.

941
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:51,560
Speaker 4: Oh oh, like for changing his views. Maybe I thought

942
00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:52,120
Speaker 4: that as well.

943
00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 2: I could totally see that.

944
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:55,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, because if you think about it, Halen Palmer came

945
00:47:55,719 --> 00:48:01,080
Speaker 4: into his life. Yeah, yeah, I could see her having

946
00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:02,839
Speaker 4: that influence on him. Yeah.

947
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:08,759
Speaker 1: He passed away finally of cancer in September twenty fourth,

948
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:12,320
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety one, eighty seven. And I remember this because

949
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:15,400
Speaker 1: that was a rough week. I was in college and

950
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:17,839
Speaker 1: he and Miles Davis died about five or six days apart.

951
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:20,440
Speaker 1: Oh really, And I just remember being like, man, this

952
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:24,640
Speaker 1: is one of those tough ones. Yeah, for dudes my age,

953
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:27,560
Speaker 1: they were beeboppers and children's book readers.

954
00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:30,359
Speaker 4: At the same time. I've got one last thing for

955
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:32,279
Speaker 4: you about doctor Seuss. Do you have anything else? I

956
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:34,520
Speaker 4: got one more thing too me first, Okay, I'll go first.

957
00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:37,360
Speaker 4: He was a voracious chain smoker.

958
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:39,200
Speaker 2: Oh interesting, so much.

959
00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:41,320
Speaker 4: So that even back in like the fifties and sixties,

960
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:43,839
Speaker 4: he knew he needed to lay off sometimes. So when

961
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:48,319
Speaker 4: he needed to lay off of smoking. He would he

962
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:51,000
Speaker 4: would take up a corn cob pipe that he kept

963
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:54,000
Speaker 4: turnip seeds in, and anytime he wanted to smoke, rather

964
00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:56,560
Speaker 4: than light it, he would put a water dropper in there,

965
00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:59,279
Speaker 4: and then when the turnip seeds started to sprout, he

966
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:01,279
Speaker 4: would grow go back to cigarettes.

967
00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:02,440
Speaker 3: What.

968
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:06,759
Speaker 1: Yes, I don't fully understand that. He would start a

969
00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:07,880
Speaker 1: little seed.

970
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 4: Corn turnip seeds, and then rather than light it, he

971
00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:13,680
Speaker 4: would just put a seed dropper Yeah yeah, pof on it.

972
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:16,000
Speaker 4: But nothing was going on. It was all just mental

973
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:19,920
Speaker 4: oral fixation. And then after about three days of doing this,

974
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:23,560
Speaker 4: the seeds would would sprout Germany and he'd be like, okay,

975
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:26,560
Speaker 4: I can go back to cigarettes now. Huh. So you

976
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:28,880
Speaker 4: take about three days off of cigarettes. And he used

977
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:32,920
Speaker 4: the crop of turnip greens as his his indicator.

978
00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:34,640
Speaker 1: I thought you were going to say that that went

979
00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:37,400
Speaker 1: on to feed like the children in poor neighborhoods or

980
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:40,839
Speaker 1: something who hate turnips, kids that eat turnips.

981
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:42,200
Speaker 4: Turnips are great.

982
00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:43,360
Speaker 2: I agree.

983
00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:48,520
Speaker 1: I'm a root vegetable man myself, so my last thing.

984
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:52,759
Speaker 1: In two thousand and seven, the federal judge received a

985
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:55,160
Speaker 1: hard boiled egg in the mail from an inmate in

986
00:49:55,200 --> 00:50:00,560
Speaker 1: prison protesting his diet in prison, and the federal the

987
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:04,759
Speaker 1: federal judge rendered a decision, and apparently it was worked

988
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:06,560
Speaker 1: up the ladder. I can't remember even what it was about.

989
00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:09,200
Speaker 1: But he rendered a decision thussly. I do not like

990
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:13,400
Speaker 1: eggs in the file. This is Judge James Murehead. I

991
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:15,759
Speaker 1: do not like them in any style. I will not

992
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:18,279
Speaker 1: take them fright or boiled. I will not take them

993
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:21,280
Speaker 1: poached or broiled. I will not take them softer scrambled

994
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:25,719
Speaker 1: despite an argument, well rambled, No fan, I am of

995
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:29,720
Speaker 1: the egg at hand. Destroy that egg today today, today,

996
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:30,480
Speaker 1: I say.

997
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:31,080
Speaker 2: Without delay.

998
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:32,520
Speaker 4: Huh.

999
00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:35,480
Speaker 1: And they threw him out of court and fired him

1000
00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:37,520
Speaker 1: right because he was drunk.

1001
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:41,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, I don't know. Wow. I wonder what came

1002
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:42,000
Speaker 4: out of that.

1003
00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:44,879
Speaker 2: I don't know. And it gave very little information about

1004
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:45,920
Speaker 2: what the case was even on.

1005
00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:48,080
Speaker 4: I know, like the guys, no, really, this is a

1006
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:51,879
Speaker 4: serious complaint. Please, you're focusing on their own thing. Soon

1007
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:52,440
Speaker 4: helped me.

1008
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:53,520
Speaker 2: Oh goodness.

1009
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:55,839
Speaker 4: If you want to know more about doctor Seuss, go

1010
00:50:56,040 --> 00:50:59,080
Speaker 4: research it. Make your own decisions about the man, the work,

1011
00:50:59,239 --> 00:51:03,120
Speaker 4: all that stuff. Okay, agreed, And since I said that,

1012
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:05,040
Speaker 4: it's time for listener mail.

1013
00:51:05,239 --> 00:51:07,000
Speaker 1: No, this is our last show of the year, so

1014
00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:08,960
Speaker 1: no listener mail. Is just our time of the year

1015
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:12,640
Speaker 1: to thank everyone here a year. Is this the end

1016
00:51:12,680 --> 00:51:13,719
Speaker 1: of ten years?

1017
00:51:14,239 --> 00:51:17,200
Speaker 4: Yes, it's sort of in the middle. April is the

1018
00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:18,920
Speaker 4: beginning and end of a year.

1019
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:20,960
Speaker 1: Right, but the end of our calendar year. And we

1020
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:24,280
Speaker 1: just thank everyone for hanging in for this long with us. Yeah,

1021
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:26,839
Speaker 1: it's amazing that we're still allowed to do this job.

1022
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:29,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, hang in there. It'll pay off eventually. Yeah, and

1023
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:33,759
Speaker 4: we're going to keep at it forever forever. And on

1024
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:36,879
Speaker 4: a personal note, a very happy birthday to my dear

1025
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:40,880
Speaker 4: sweet wife Yumi. Happy birthday, Yummi pea birthday, Umi, And

1026
00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:43,640
Speaker 4: thank you guys for being with us for yet another year.

1027
00:51:43,680 --> 00:51:44,759
Speaker 4: And we'll see you next year.

1028
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:50,919
Speaker 3: Everybody, Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio.

1029
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:54,640
Speaker 3: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1030
00:51:54,840 --> 00:52:00,480
Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.