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Speaker 1: What up? Welcome in. This is all ball, all basketball,

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Speaker 1: All ball, all the time. My guest in this episode

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Speaker 1: is Tom Pender's legendary head coach at Texas, Houston, Columbia,

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Speaker 1: Rhode Island Toughs Right Bridgeports Central, an old Yukon basketball

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Speaker 1: and baseball player. Wait do you hear what sport he

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Speaker 1: actually played while coaching in college? Well, coaching in college

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Speaker 1: was a national champion in another sport. Pretty amazing stuff

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Speaker 1: that I had no idea before we started the conversation.

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Speaker 1: I do want to hit you at this. Can we

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Speaker 1: please take a breath on the We need to stop

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Speaker 1: college basketball because players are safer when they're at home.

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Speaker 1: No they're not, No, they're not. You know what you

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Speaker 1: don't do when you're in college and your home. You

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Speaker 1: don't go see a doctor or a trainer, uh several

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Speaker 1: times a week to get tested or if you're not

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Speaker 1: feeling well, yeah you're sick, you sweat it out at home, right,

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Speaker 1: that's what you do. Um. So in addition to not

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Speaker 1: having the medical care, it's not like an eighteen and

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Speaker 1: twenty four year old you sent him home for a

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Speaker 1: month is not going to go out. So you have

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Speaker 1: one of the supervision of your medical experts at school,

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Speaker 1: you have one of the supervision of your coach, so

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Speaker 1: they can't go out. Plus, most college basketball players are

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Speaker 1: used to this time of the year being alone on

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Speaker 1: a campus. Anyway, it's the men's team, the women's team,

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Speaker 1: and only the football team if they're playing in a

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Speaker 1: bowl game. Other than otherwise, you got the campus to yourself.

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Speaker 1: This is very normal. Are the games a normal? Sure?

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Speaker 1: Does it feel weird to be playing when so many

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Speaker 1: things are shutting down? I'm sure it does. But you

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Speaker 1: have to consider the alternative. And the alternative is either

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Speaker 1: going home to take whatever you have home with you

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Speaker 1: or to catch whatever is at home. And you're gonna

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Speaker 1: go out in public if you're home, like, don't tell me.

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Speaker 1: These kids are gonna go home and is stay inside

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Speaker 1: the room and isolate and quarantine like it's not happening.

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Speaker 1: So I love the coaches that are thinking about everybody

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Speaker 1: and what the best decision is. I would also point

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Speaker 1: out that that's not actually the best decision. And by

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Speaker 1: the way, it's weird. College basketball in Kentucky kind of

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Speaker 1: stinky Duke, kind of average Kansas, well coached bat Craighton,

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Speaker 1: He's Bill self is gonna go down as one of

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Speaker 1: the more underrated coaches of all time. But that's not

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Speaker 1: a super talented team. Um North Carolina. Okay, all right, okay,

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Speaker 1: like you almost feel like college basketball needs those teams.

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Speaker 1: Are one or two of those teams to be awesome

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Speaker 1: to get our grab America's attention. In the meantime, they're not,

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Speaker 1: And we somehow have games, sometimes don't have games, didn't

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Speaker 1: have Baylor Gonzaga. We're caught in the should we be

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Speaker 1: playing should we not be playing? Like, look, if you

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Speaker 1: get to play, keep playing. If you can't, you shut down,

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Speaker 1: you start back up, you get back after it. But

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Speaker 1: I think the idea of sending kids home, that's not

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Speaker 1: actually a safer it's an interesting thought. Put it up

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Speaker 1: as a brainstorming. All right, what are our options here, guys?

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Speaker 1: Send him? What about sending him home? Not really a

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Speaker 1: great idea, That's how I look at it. You can

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Speaker 1: download the Doug Gottlieb Show on your I Heart radio app.

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Speaker 1: You can listen to the podcast version of it, or

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Speaker 1: you can listen to it on Fox Sports Trader, Fox

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Speaker 1: Sports radio dot Com. Anytime. Before we get to Tom Penders,

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Speaker 1: just want to remind you that's at three to six

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Speaker 1: Eastern twelve to three Pacific. He is a college basketball

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Speaker 1: Hall of Famer. He has that kind of legendary curly hair.

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Speaker 1: He is never short with his opinions, and you're gonna

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Speaker 1: love I sit down with soon to be inducted college

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Speaker 1: Basketball Hall of Famer Tom Penders. Obviously he's a Hall

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Speaker 1: of Famer. That's just one of the myriad of reasons. Uh,

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Speaker 1: we're having him on. Additionally, if you look over his

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Speaker 1: left shoulder if you're watching this on on I G

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Speaker 1: run YouTube. It's also an author. He's been a college

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Speaker 1: basketball analyst, college basketball head coach. He's Tom Penders. He

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Speaker 1: joins us in the All Ball podcast. And let's let

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Speaker 1: me start with this coach. I know you've known for

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Speaker 1: a while. I know these classes were not just announced

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Speaker 1: when it became. But where were you when you found out?

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Speaker 1: And who is your first call? Chip? Uh, that's two questions.

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Speaker 1: So I learned in early January of last year. Right

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Speaker 1: at the beginning of January, I got a call from

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Speaker 1: the NABC that I was being inducted into the class

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Speaker 1: of along with the other members. I didn't know who

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Speaker 1: the other members were, and at that point, I really

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Speaker 1: didn't care. I was just elated, and are you sure

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Speaker 1: who voted? How did I get in this thing? Because

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Speaker 1: I really didn't have any idea. You know how one

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Speaker 1: gets elected to that? So they just said, no, it's

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Speaker 1: your peers. You have to be recommended by a couple

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Speaker 1: of people that are on or in the Hall of Fame,

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Speaker 1: and then it goes to a committee, and then there's

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Speaker 1: a secret society coaches ex coaches that I picked the

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Speaker 1: candidates that go in. So the first one I called

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Speaker 1: my daughter, my daughter Carly, who's up in Rhode Island

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Speaker 1: at our at our Rhode Island beach house. She's taking

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Speaker 1: care of things up there, living up there during this pandemic.

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Speaker 1: And we're here in Miami Beach. I'm recovering from back

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Speaker 1: surgery which I had in late August, and my surgeon

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Speaker 1: was down here at the University of Miami. So we're

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Speaker 1: here and it's a nice place to rehab. I can

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Speaker 1: think of worst places to be at this time. Uh,

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Speaker 1: let's take me back O. Stratford, Connecticut is where you

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Speaker 1: grew up and you you play basketball at Yukon And

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Speaker 1: it's interesting if you told people you played basketball Yukon.

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Speaker 1: Now it's a very different image than what Yukon basketball was.

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Speaker 1: That was it like when you arrived on campus in

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Speaker 1: stores Well, I was a full baseball scholarship athlete. The

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Speaker 1: coach that committed a scholarship to me was Hugh Greer,

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Speaker 1: and he had a very weird thing happened. He died

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Speaker 1: on a racquetball court in the early February of my

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Speaker 1: senior year in high school. And I was leading the

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Speaker 1: state and scoring, and I had a lot of schools

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Speaker 1: chasing me. But I always wanted to go to Yukon.

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Speaker 1: I used to listen to their games on radio as

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Speaker 1: a kid growing up. I think from the time I

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Speaker 1: was ten years old and my older brother was there

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Speaker 1: as a baseball player. The baseball coach said, if you

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Speaker 1: want to try out for basketball, you go ahead. I

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Speaker 1: think he didn't think I could make the basketball team.

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Speaker 1: But the coach who came in in the in the springtime,

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Speaker 1: Fred Shable is his name. He went on to fame

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Speaker 1: and other things. He was an executive vice president of

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Speaker 1: Comcast in Philadelphia. He's still alive. We're still in contact.

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Speaker 1: He was the second guy I called after I found

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Speaker 1: out and anyway, I went to Yukon and I went

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Speaker 1: out in the fall after our baseball workouts were finished

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Speaker 1: around the September, and I played pick up with the

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Speaker 1: guys in the in the gym and we played games

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Speaker 1: of half court four on four and I stepped right

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Speaker 1: into it, and you know, I felt that I was

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Speaker 1: the best point guard out there. We were called playmakers

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Speaker 1: in that era. The point guard term didn't come until

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Speaker 1: the early seventies, and it came from a coach who's

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Speaker 1: also in the Hall of Fame, Ugh Durham. He had

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Speaker 1: two little guys running that position and he called one

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Speaker 1: the point. They ran one three one offense, and then

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Speaker 1: he had the wings and and you know then he

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Speaker 1: he designated the four and the five in other ways.

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Speaker 1: But that's where that term came from. So I was

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Speaker 1: thinking to myself, you know, going into my freshman year,

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Speaker 1: that I could not only make the varsity, but I

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Speaker 1: could play. And that's exactly what happened. The team in

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Speaker 1: my freshman year they finished like sixteen and eleven. Uh,

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Speaker 1: they weren't very good. In our scrimmages we used to have.

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Speaker 1: We were quicker, we were deeper, and you know, like

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Speaker 1: five guys from that team were in the rotation in

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Speaker 1: my sophomore here, but we were basically an undefeated team

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Speaker 1: that year. Are only two losses came when we didn't

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Speaker 1: have our All American center Toby Kimball, who was out.

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Speaker 1: He averaged twenty points and rebounds the game, and he

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Speaker 1: played about eleven years in the NBA, has backup for

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Speaker 1: Bill Russell, Kareema, Bill Jabbar, and then a couple of

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Speaker 1: other well known centers in the league. He ended up

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Speaker 1: out in San Diego with the San Diego Rockets. I

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Speaker 1: remember going out there when I was in the Final

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Speaker 1: four and watching him play, and I checked them out

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Speaker 1: when they were playing in Boston when I was at Yukon.

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Speaker 1: He was out. They thought he had some heart problem.

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Speaker 1: It just was a chest muscles pass. And we were

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Speaker 1: in Buffalo and the tournament, but we lost to Holy Cross,

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Speaker 1: which was a big rival in those days. We played

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Speaker 1: them twice a year and they should have been in

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Speaker 1: the conference with us, but they chose to be independent

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Speaker 1: along with Providence in Boston College and go for the

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Speaker 1: E C A C bids. In those days, you know,

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Speaker 1: it was very different than today. It was a regional sport.

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Speaker 1: We were one of the few teams that had trips.

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Speaker 1: We went to Texas and played Baylor and SMU during

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Speaker 1: my junior year. In my sophomore year, we traveled to

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Speaker 1: that tournament in Buffalo were we lost Toby Kimball and

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Speaker 1: it was you know, we're all compared. The gyms were packed.

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Speaker 1: Yukon basketball was, you know, as big in the state

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Speaker 1: of Connecticut as it is now. You know, they were

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Speaker 1: like fourteen state newspapers that covered us, and it wasn't

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Speaker 1: unusual to have seven or eight of them show up

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Speaker 1: for practice. And our coach was one of those who,

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Speaker 1: you know, he's very organized and he you know, he

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Speaker 1: had his rules about talking to the media, but he

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Speaker 1: allowed us, you know, like once a week to spend

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Speaker 1: time with the media. So I got used to doing

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Speaker 1: that as a sophomore. But you know, it was it

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Speaker 1: was an opportunity, and I'm so glad I had. I

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Speaker 1: had opportunities to sign baseball contracts. I was offered a

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Speaker 1: lot of money out of high school, but I wanted

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Speaker 1: to go to Yukon play baseball and basketball. In those days,

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Speaker 1: you couldn't be a pro baseball player and play college basketball,

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Speaker 1: so that was out. The draft started in my sophomore

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Speaker 1: year in and we were in Omaha, Nebraska, playing in

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Speaker 1: the College World Series, and a bunch of scouts were

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Speaker 1: pounding me about what I signed if I was drafted,

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Speaker 1: and I said, no, absolutely not. You know, I want

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Speaker 1: to play basketball. I was the leader of the team

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Speaker 1: already and I enjoyed it so much. And you can

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Speaker 1: if you're on the basketball team, if you're a starter

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Speaker 1: around the basketball team or you know, in the in

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Speaker 1: the rotation, you not only get famed, but you get attention.

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Speaker 1: And when I finished playing ball at Yukon, I played

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Speaker 1: pro baseball for one year and during the off seas,

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Speaker 1: and I was offered a head high school job and

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Speaker 1: I loved the experience. I had a team of we

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Speaker 1: were called the Mighty Midgets. We we we came from

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Speaker 1: a four win season with the same kids, and we

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Speaker 1: turned it around and won fourteen games and lost six

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Speaker 1: and got to the state quarter finals. So I was houcked.

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Speaker 1: I turned down Cleveland's offer to come back. I made

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Speaker 1: an All star team as a first year player. I

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Speaker 1: was elevated to double A UH and I was going

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Speaker 1: to go back to Double A. And we negotiated all

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Speaker 1: the way through the spring and half the summer, but

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Speaker 1: I decided to make my career in college basketball. We're

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Speaker 1: high school at that time. I really wasn't thinking about

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Speaker 1: college basketball. I just loved coaching and teaching. Okay, so

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Speaker 1: you went you coach at too high school. The second

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Speaker 1: one was Bridgeport Central, which, by the way, my mom

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Speaker 1: got right down the street. I think she attended a

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Speaker 1: leadership camp or something with you when you guys are

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Speaker 1: both in high school. She was in rich for you

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Speaker 1: in Stratford, right, Um, how did you make the jump

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Speaker 1: from Bridgeports Central to Tufts? Well, our a guy who

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Speaker 1: covered our team at Yukon for the Willemantic paper, which

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Speaker 1: is right next to Stoves, Connecticut. Guy named Dave Estridge.

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Speaker 1: He moved up to Boston and became the sports writer

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Speaker 1: for the Medford Daily newspaper, which is where TUSS is located,

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Speaker 1: which is just like five miles from Boston Garden and

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Speaker 1: a beautiful campus. But Dave called me up. He was

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Speaker 1: a sports information director that toughs while he was writing

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Speaker 1: up there for a small paper in Medford. He just

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Speaker 1: called me out of the blue. In the late spring

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Speaker 1: of of n at had the been seventy one, nobody's

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Speaker 1: ever asked me that question. But it was after my

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Speaker 1: third year at Central, and we were like the number

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Speaker 1: one team in New England. We averaged over a hundred

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Speaker 1: points a game, and the state of Connecticut had just

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Speaker 1: great basketball in that era. You know, Calvin Murphy played there,

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Speaker 1: John Dagley, West Matthews, Charles Smith, they all came from

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Speaker 1: the Bridgeport area, but Hartford and New Haven also put

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Speaker 1: out excellent basketball teams and players during that time. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And I was a little bit hesitant about making the move,

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Speaker 1: but he just said, Tom, I've talked to h the

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Speaker 1: a D. I've talked to the assistant a D. I've

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Speaker 1: talked to somebody in the in the faculty council, and

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Speaker 1: the job is yours. That you got to come up

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Speaker 1: here for an interview. So well, I said, what the heck?

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Speaker 1: I went up there for an interview. I spent like

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Speaker 1: five hours up there on a campus, and I had

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Speaker 1: the job. So I said, what damn? I think I

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Speaker 1: I lost a few thousand dollars by going to Tufts,

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Speaker 1: but it was a college job. They didn't tell me

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Speaker 1: I had to coach another sport, so I chose. They

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Speaker 1: gave me a choice between baseball, where I played professionally

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Speaker 1: and soccer, which I had never played in my life.

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Speaker 1: But it was in the fall before basketball started, because

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Speaker 1: you got a recruit in the spring and basketball, and

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Speaker 1: I knew that, and I also knew that I would

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Speaker 1: be exhausted at the end of the season, like I

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Speaker 1: always was even in high school coaching. So I was

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Speaker 1: a soccer JV soccer coach and our very first match

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Speaker 1: was against Harvard over at Harvard next to the football

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Speaker 1: stay to him where they played a varsity game that day,

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Speaker 1: and I coached against the guy named Shamus Mallen who

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Speaker 1: was the voice of American soccer for years here he

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Speaker 1: did the Olympics, the World Games. And he asked me

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Speaker 1: after the game was a one one tie, you know, Tom,

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Speaker 1: what style of soccer was that? And I said, that's

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Speaker 1: the way we played in Bridgeport, Connecticut. He looked at

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Speaker 1: me kind of funny, he said, like, where's that? What

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Speaker 1: does that have to do soccer? But anyway, we full court,

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Speaker 1: So so I don't know if you know that. So

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Speaker 1: my my dad's first college job was at Quinnipiac pert

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Speaker 1: Con and yes, and uh kind of same thing where

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Speaker 1: where Bert hired him to be the j v at

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Speaker 1: the j V coach varsity assistant freshman coach as well,

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Speaker 1: and he had to coach soccer and he had no idea,

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Speaker 1: So he went to library checked out a book on

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Speaker 1: how to coach soccer. He had to line the fields.

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Speaker 1: They didn't know how to line the fields at all. Right,

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Speaker 1: And that's very a very yeah, very very very very

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Speaker 1: different time. I have your dad, He never told me

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Speaker 1: that one you had incredible success at Tufts in a

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Speaker 1: short period of time. How did you? How did you

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Speaker 1: do it? Like we think of these turnarounds nowadays and

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Speaker 1: it takes time. Why was it so easy for you,

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Speaker 1: at least seemingly so you transition to a college game

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Speaker 1: and uh, and then you know, you guys are very

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Speaker 1: successful at toughs. How did you do it? Well? It

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Speaker 1: was the wild seventies. The nineteen seventies, you don't make

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Speaker 1: this time of our lives looked like a very calm

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Speaker 1: time compared to the nineteen seventies. You know, the en

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Speaker 1: sixty eight, the Vietnam War was still going on, Strong Nixon,

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Speaker 1: most our president, everybody was protesting, everybody was demonstrating. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And that is what happened to the coach before me Doug.

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Speaker 1: He you know, he allowed his players to go and

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Speaker 1: protest here and protest there, and then basically, uh, the

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Speaker 1: black players just quit on them. And you know, I

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Speaker 1: was not only hired to build a program, but you know,

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Speaker 1: to correct what was going on within the basketball program

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Speaker 1: and even the athletic department at that time. And that

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Speaker 1: you know, it was easy to me because I did

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Speaker 1: that at the high school level. You know, first you

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Speaker 1: have to build a team. You know, everybody talks about culture.

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Speaker 1: That word was never used during my time, but you

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Speaker 1: know I learned how to do that, and you know,

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Speaker 1: I had some really good mentors at that time. I

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Speaker 1: was very close to Red r Back because he drafted

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Speaker 1: Toby Kimball and I got to know him when Toby

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Speaker 1: was playing for the Celtics and also when I moved

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Speaker 1: to Boston. The first thing I did the first practices

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Speaker 1: when they opened, as I called somebody in the Celtics

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Speaker 1: front office and asked him if I could go and

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Speaker 1: where was it And the guy basically picked me up

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Speaker 1: on campus and brought me to the site. It was

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Speaker 1: in an area of Boston I would never be able

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Speaker 1: to find. It's the most difficult city in the country.

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Speaker 1: To find your way around Boston, it's ridiculously hard. It

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Speaker 1: took me three years to figure it out. And then

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Speaker 1: I was on my way to New York. But uh,

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Speaker 1: you know I had some There were some players there. Uh.

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Speaker 1: There there was a kid named Dennis Mink from Hartford

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Speaker 1: Weaver who I coached against in the tournament in Connecticut

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Speaker 1: and the state tournament, and they knocked us out. Uh

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Speaker 1: you know, we maybe we split a game. It was

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Speaker 1: one of our only losses in my two years at Central.

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Speaker 1: But Dennis was the six seven forward. He was recruited

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Speaker 1: by some Division one schools, but he wanted to go

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Speaker 1: the academic route. And there was another young man named

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Speaker 1: Reggie Freeman. I mean not Reggie Freeman, Reggie Graham. Reggie

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Speaker 1: was another six seven forward that was being recruited by

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Speaker 1: Yukon Boston College and n y U H. Lou Rossini

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Speaker 1: was their coach, and he decided to go the academic route.

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Speaker 1: In those days, he was advised by people in his

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Speaker 1: high school. You know, he was a real smart kid

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Speaker 1: and he didn't even play basketball. It's freshman year, so

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Speaker 1: that started it off. And then another incoming freshman was

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Speaker 1: a guy named Eddie tap Scott, who ended up being

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Speaker 1: the GM of the Knicks the Wizards, and he was

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Speaker 1: also executive vice president for the new Charlotte Bobcats under

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Speaker 1: Bob Johnson. Uh so, I have two two guys that

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Speaker 1: were general managers that played for me that became NBA

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Speaker 1: general managers and eddieast One he also coached. When they

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Speaker 1: fired Edie Jordan, he became the bench coach for the

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Speaker 1: rest of that year. And we're real close. He's a

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Speaker 1: former captain of mine. He couldn't play during that first year.

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Speaker 1: Dennis Mink couldn't play during that first year because freshman

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Speaker 1: could not play varsity basketball. So I knew I had

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Speaker 1: them in my program. And then it was up to

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Speaker 1: me to put a team together from the scraps left

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Speaker 1: over from the year before where they went one in

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Speaker 1: nineteen and uh, you know, it was a team with

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Speaker 1: a lot of internal issues, but I you know, I

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Speaker 1: was able to straighten them out. I was able to

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Speaker 1: get kids on the court who wanted to focus on

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Speaker 1: basketball and not the president's office and dedicate themselves to

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Speaker 1: each other and what they were doing. And you know,

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Speaker 1: our first year we went twelve and eight. We were

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Speaker 1: in New England's most improved team. They didn't do nationally

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Speaker 1: most improved in those days and were are a college

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Speaker 1: division team. We didn't have three divisions during those those years,

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Speaker 1: a Tufts they later became Division three. We didn't have

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Speaker 1: basketball scholarships that we had needs scholarships like the IVY League.

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Speaker 1: And believe that not that team. But in my second

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Speaker 1: year we were twenty two and four and one in

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Speaker 1: New England e C a C s uh. We upset

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Speaker 1: Jim Calhoun's Northeastern team. We were as good as most

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Speaker 1: Division one schools, including Yukon in that time, because Yukon

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Speaker 1: was really down in that period of time. So uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, I just had better players as I was

365
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Speaker 1: learning how to coach when you went to Columbia. One

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Speaker 1: of the things that is, I do think that in

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Speaker 1: this year will be interesting with no IVY League basketball.

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Speaker 1: But we were close a couple of years ago to

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Speaker 1: getting into the discussion of where the IVY League was.

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Speaker 1: As I've been told in the late seventies, when you

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Speaker 1: were there, where it was it was cool for high

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Speaker 1: level recruits on the East Coast and only stay home,

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Speaker 1: but to play for these unbelievable institutions right. Is that

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Speaker 1: is that a fair like there was NBA caliber players

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Speaker 1: playing in the IVY League in the seventies. When you're

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Speaker 1: a Columbias accurate right, there wasn't much said about top

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00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:33,159
Speaker 1: It was more like Top twenty. Well, during my years

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Speaker 1: of Columbia, which is four years, there were always two

379
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Speaker 1: IVY League teams in the Top twenty. One was Penn

380
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Speaker 1: and the other was Princeton. One year Princeton would be stronger.

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Speaker 1: They had some really outstanding ball clubs, and of course

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Speaker 1: Pete Rill was their coach. They played a little faster style.

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Speaker 1: They were able to play speed up basketball if they

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Speaker 1: had to. I remember going to a game when they

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Speaker 1: beat Note Dame by twenty points, and Notre Dame was

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Speaker 1: like a top ten team at that time. Notre Dame

387
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:10,680
Speaker 1: tried pressing them and Princeton went right through their defense.

388
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:14,240
Speaker 1: But Penn had some really outstanding players, and they had

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Speaker 1: this unknown coach named Chuck Daly. Nobody's ever heard of

390
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:22,000
Speaker 1: him before or since. And that's what I found myself

391
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Speaker 1: coaching against my first year at Colombia. The IVY League

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00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:29,120
Speaker 1: was very good, and I had to recruit and recruit

393
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Speaker 1: very well to get up to their level UH. And

394
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Speaker 1: in my second year at Columbia, where I had a

395
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Speaker 1: chance to recruit for a whole year, I was able

396
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Speaker 1: to get four players from the West Coast, off from

397
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Speaker 1: Northern California, San Francisco, Oakland area, and they were outstanding players.

398
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Speaker 1: And I sold to them, you know, go east, you

399
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:58,400
Speaker 1: know you love New York and San Francisco. Kids were

400
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Speaker 1: not afraid of going to New York where I could

401
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:03,280
Speaker 1: go to New Jersey and try to get the best

402
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 1: players in New Jersey and they'd laugh at me. You know,

403
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:10,920
Speaker 1: it's like trying to hand out subpoenas when you're going

404
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:13,879
Speaker 1: to an All Star game, you know, in the in

405
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:19,440
Speaker 1: the Northern Jersey area. But I was able to recruit, well,

406
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,000
Speaker 1: you have to recruit well. It took me in my

407
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 1: third year there to win. I didn't do that in

408
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Speaker 1: the first year because nobody did that. Na Ivy League,

409
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 1: you couldn't do it. You had to wait, You had

410
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:33,359
Speaker 1: to wait for your class to come up. I didn't

411
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 1: have a chance. At the end of April, Doug when

412
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 1: they gave out the scholarships or the grants and the

413
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 1: academic awards and all those things, when kids were deciding

414
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Speaker 1: whether they would go to an ivy or not. It

415
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,520
Speaker 1: was already decided, and I wasn't even allowed to bring

416
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Speaker 1: a new African into the pool, so I had to

417
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:57,640
Speaker 1: accept what came. And in my second year, we had

418
00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 1: one junior and and and the rest of eleven players

419
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:06,400
Speaker 1: were sophomores. And that was a really tough year. But

420
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Speaker 1: that was the year we made our name because we

421
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,639
Speaker 1: had to play against Bob Knight and his great Indiana

422
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:17,679
Speaker 1: team that went undefeated in the Holiday Festival. And I

423
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:20,199
Speaker 1: got to do an article for Dick Schapp, who was

424
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:23,880
Speaker 1: the sports editor who became a very dear friend of mine.

425
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,720
Speaker 1: He used to help me recruit. That was part of

426
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Speaker 1: a kid's visit to go to lunch with Dick Schapp

427
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:33,160
Speaker 1: and walk around the better spots of New York. And

428
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 1: I sold New York. It couldn't sell it to local

429
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 1: kids except for one player, and his name was Ricky Free.

430
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:46,160
Speaker 1: He was at Boys and Girls High School. He was

431
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,159
Speaker 1: the best player in the city and he won the

432
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:52,399
Speaker 1: most valuable player at the only all star team that

433
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 1: was played in the postseason. It was Pennsylvania against the

434
00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 1: US Sonny of the Stafford Dan Tournament, and I wrote

435
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 1: about it in my book about out recruiting Joe B.

436
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 1: Hall for Ricky Free. Ricky was the m v P.

437
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 1: Hands down, he got it, he got the award. And

438
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 1: then after that game, Kentucky put the full court press

439
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 1: on Chuck Daily from Penn was recruiting him. But I

440
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 1: went to every one of his high school games and

441
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 1: over boys and girls high school. They didn't allow fans,

442
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 1: I mean not even parents could get in to watch

443
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:35,119
Speaker 1: their kids play. They were afternoon games because of violence

444
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:39,359
Speaker 1: after high school games. But their coach, Frank mckins, because

445
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 1: I went to practices and got to know him, he said,

446
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:45,480
Speaker 1: just show up. The games are three. Show up at

447
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 1: two thirty. I'll meet you in the back. Don't park

448
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 1: your car in front of the school to be gone

449
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 1: in fifteen minutes, or you won't have any tires come

450
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,200
Speaker 1: around the back. We'll lock your car in the back.

451
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 1: Uh So, anyway, I went to every one of those

452
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:05,479
Speaker 1: games and got a commitment out of him. That was

453
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:10,639
Speaker 1: my best recruiting story in my entire career. Here here's

454
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 1: here's my I'll share my late father's. My favorite dreaming

455
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 1: story he has is he takes over Jacksonville about the

456
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 1: same time. This is nineteen maybe a little bit earlier

457
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:26,280
Speaker 1: this nineteen that's when I went to Columbia. Right, So

458
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 1: he takes over. You know, he's a New Yorker and

459
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:32,359
Speaker 1: he had been at Cradon and under Eddie Sutton and

460
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 1: Kansas State and Jack Hartman and and um. So when

461
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 1: he gets the job, the President calls him in and says, now, coach, um,

462
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 1: our previous staff had a little bit different grant aid program, right.

463
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 1: And Tate's lock, wasn't it. I think it was taste

464
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 1: tastes lock was was the previous coach and Williams before them, Yes,

465
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 1: and they also had a s Gilmore Yes, yes, show

466
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 1: uh And they've gone to the final four. So he's

467
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 1: brought in to clean up. So the President calls him

468
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 1: and says, listen, your top recruit is Ricky Coleman. My

469
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 1: dad he played in the Dapper My dad saw him

470
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:21,720
Speaker 1: playing the Dapper Dan game after he took the job. Um,

471
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 1: but he cannot bring his Cadillac to campus. Cadillac was

472
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 1: not purchased by Mr and Mrs Coleman. My dad flies

473
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,720
Speaker 1: up to Detroit. You can meet the parents, and he's

474
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 1: just you know, had a lovely evening and at the end,

475
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 1: he says, listen, this is not my call. And UM,

476
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 1: all I can tell you is you just you can't

477
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 1: bring the Cadillac. You keep Cadillac. He just can't bring

478
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 1: into campus. No problems. So first day of school, everybody

479
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:54,240
Speaker 1: shows up. There's a team meeting in the locker room,

480
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 1: and Ricky Coleman walks from his norm to the team meeting.

481
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 1: When he gets there, he realized that every their kid

482
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 1: on the team has a Cadillac. And so he's like,

483
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 1: you know, coach can yes, second semester anyway, so good.

484
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:08,719
Speaker 1: Then you fast forward to second semester and Ricky Coleman

485
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 1: it's flunking out of school. So at the time, I

486
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 1: think there's eighteen scholarships and my dad had like seventeen

487
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 1: kids on scholarship. And he takes his man and best

488
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 1: manager and he says, look, I'm gonna put you on scholarship.

489
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 1: But here's the deal. You have to get up every morning,

490
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 1: get Ricky walk Ricky Coleman to class, picking up africk class,

491
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 1: welcome back to doctor, to his next class, et cetera.

492
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 1: He is not in every class, you lose your scholarship otherwise.

493
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 1: So at the end of that semester, Rickey Coleman goes

494
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 1: from ineligible to on the Dean's list. The manager funked out,

495
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 1: that was that's the downside. Who was on scholarship funked out?

496
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 1: So anyway, everybody, Um, I want to go to Texas,

497
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 1: and I'm not skipping over Rhode Island, which I know

498
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 1: is very near and dear to your heart, because it

499
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:55,760
Speaker 1: is fascinating how you well born and raised well yet Fordham? Right,

500
00:30:55,840 --> 00:31:00,080
Speaker 1: so but okay, so why go from Columbia to Fordham? Well,

501
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 1: I didn't have scholarships in the Ivy League and Columbia anyway,

502
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 1: they were starting to make the financial aid package where

503
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 1: every player, no matter how good he was, was going

504
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:16,280
Speaker 1: to have to pay a certain part or work to make.

505
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 1: If he made five thousand dollars in the summer, he

506
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 1: probably had to put four thousand of that towards his degree.

507
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 1: And I saw that as a red flag coming. That

508
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 1: wasn't an Ivy League rule that was in Colombia. It

509
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 1: sure wasn't going on at Penn and Princeton. You know,

510
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 1: Princeton went on to win the n I T and

511
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 1: seventy six, and that's when the n I T was

512
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 1: good because only one A C C school played in

513
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:42,720
Speaker 1: the n C Double A's and it was, you know,

514
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 1: really good basketball at that time. The n I T

515
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 1: So I went to Fordham because I saw the potential

516
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 1: there and they had a good reputation when I was

517
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 1: growing up. They had a great player named Ed Conlin

518
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 1: who played for Philadelphia Warrior with Wilt Chamberlain. He was

519
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 1: an outstanding player there and we played for them when

520
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 1: I was at Yukon and in three three games they

521
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 1: beat us once. And they had Johnny back coaching, who

522
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 1: went on to coach in the NBA as Phil Jackson's

523
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 1: assistant the Warriors. He was he was there. I think

524
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 1: Al Addles was the head coach. Johnny was an outstanding

525
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 1: coach and a respected NBA coach. So I knew it

526
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 1: could be done it for them where you could win,

527
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 1: but their team was not. It was it was gonna

528
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 1: need it. Maybe I could win a few games my

529
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 1: first year, but I thought I could recruit the New

530
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 1: York area. I was trying hard. At Columbia. I had

531
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:48,960
Speaker 1: Ricky Free and I got to know all the coaches

532
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 1: in the Catholic League in New York, which was a

533
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 1: real strong basketball league. Every coach in the country was

534
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 1: trying to recruit there, so I thought I could do

535
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 1: well with basketball scholarships and and we went over there,

536
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 1: and uh, we didn't win in our first couple of years.

537
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 1: We didn't have a winning record, but in year three

538
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 1: we won nineteen games and went to Dayton in the

539
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 1: n i T. It lost a triple overtime game to

540
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 1: a guy named Roosevelt Chapman. He was an All American

541
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 1: from Brooklyn. Roosevelt and Don Donna, who was their coach there.

542
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:27,959
Speaker 1: It was one of the best basketball games I had

543
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 1: ever been involved in as a coach, and Don Donnaho

544
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 1: said the same thing on the other side. So that

545
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 1: was my first experience in the n i T and

546
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 1: year three and we went on to go four more times.

547
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 1: One time I was in NBC when NBC was doing

548
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 1: the n C Double A, you know selection Sunday. I

549
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 1: was in the studio with Bill McAtee all Sunday afternoon

550
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 1: and about six favorites got beat at the smaller level,

551
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 1: so you know, the automatic bid got in and then

552
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,960
Speaker 1: the second place bid got in from maybe the Ohio Valley.

553
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:10,839
Speaker 1: We didn't have a national reputation at Fordham we sure

554
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:13,839
Speaker 1: that because we played the national schedule. We played Notre

555
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 1: Dame when they were number one. The same year we

556
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 1: went out and played U C. L A. That was

557
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:22,360
Speaker 1: on our way to Hawaii, where everybody was fighting over

558
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 1: who was going to play us. That was my first

559
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:28,279
Speaker 1: year and I got my hundredth win out there, my

560
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:31,600
Speaker 1: very first year at Fordham and the kids were wondering

561
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 1: why in the the hell I was celebrating after we lost

562
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 1: to Hawaii in the opening round. That was number one hundred.

563
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:41,319
Speaker 1: I didn't know if I'd ever see two hundred. But

564
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:43,879
Speaker 1: take me to Texas, though, because everything you had done

565
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 1: in your life have an East Coast, you traveled, you know,

566
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:51,280
Speaker 1: you played professional baseball elsewhere, you traveled as a coach.

567
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 1: But to take on the Texas job, you show up

568
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 1: in Austin, Texas. How did you get that job? But

569
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:00,040
Speaker 1: the only time I had ever been in Texas it

570
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 1: was in seventy two. I was playing fast pit softball.

571
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 1: Our team won the national championship and uh where the

572
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 1: Cowboys play? Wait? Wait, you played fast pitched softball while

573
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:18,960
Speaker 1: coaching high school basketball college basketball? Yeah, I played Major

574
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:24,200
Speaker 1: fast pit softball, which is the highest level of amateur softball,

575
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,719
Speaker 1: and I refused even consider a job when I was

576
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:31,399
Speaker 1: coaching unless it was in the Northeast where I could

577
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:35,320
Speaker 1: play for the Robestis Cardinals, our team it later became

578
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:38,880
Speaker 1: the Franklin Cardinals. A guy named George. How did how

579
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:41,360
Speaker 1: did you do? How did you do this? So? I

580
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 1: was nine? Okay? But how like like you only practice

581
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:47,920
Speaker 1: late at night? Was it once a week? How do

582
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:51,120
Speaker 1: you stay sharp? Position? I have so many more questions

583
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 1: about this than than than about Fordham. I real quickly

584
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:59,440
Speaker 1: we couldn't even watch the kids practice back in that era.

585
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:04,480
Speaker 1: Fast Fit Softball started in late May and went through

586
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 1: the summer and ended in middle in the middle of September.

587
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 1: We played a hundred games. We played on Wednesday nights,

588
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:16,480
Speaker 1: we played on Friday nights, Saturday night, and Sunday afternoon.

589
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 1: And we traveled the US most of the time. So

590
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:24,239
Speaker 1: I did some recruiting while I was doing that. When

591
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:28,760
Speaker 1: I was at Columbia, we played everywhere, even Canada back

592
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 1: then because we were we were the US champions. I

593
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:36,080
Speaker 1: loved it, you know, I was a baseball player. Fast

594
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:42,640
Speaker 1: bit softball is baseball on steroids. Seven inning game. One

595
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:46,359
Speaker 1: run can be huge in a fast pitch game and

596
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 1: we had four of the best pictures in the world.

597
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 1: So is in my hometown, the Strafford, Connecticut, which is

598
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 1: a sister city or brother city with with Bridgeport, and

599
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 1: I was probably close with the Bridgeport City Hall that

600
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 1: I was the Strafford City Hall growing up at the

601
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:08,280
Speaker 1: Rabustness Cardinals and the Rabustness break Cats on the women's

602
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:17,400
Speaker 1: side dominated fast bit softball from when I played, so

603
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:22,000
Speaker 1: I wouldn't consider a job and anywhere outside of New

604
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 1: York all the way from New York maybe New Jersey,

605
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 1: all the way up to New England while I was playing,

606
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:33,560
Speaker 1: and I was able to retire after fifteen years in

607
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:36,719
Speaker 1: the game and I made that Hall of Fame in

608
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,880
Speaker 1: But the truth of that story, I was probably the

609
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:44,359
Speaker 1: eighth guy on our team that got into the Hall

610
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:48,880
Speaker 1: of Fame. We were such a dominant team that you

611
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:52,319
Speaker 1: know I got in probably because I was a key

612
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:56,320
Speaker 1: player on three championship teams and I played on five

613
00:37:56,440 --> 00:38:00,120
Speaker 1: national championship teams. So I wasn't afraid to go to

614
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:03,280
Speaker 1: Texas at all. And when I went to Rhode Island,

615
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:06,239
Speaker 1: we go to the Sweet sixteen in my second year,

616
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 1: I was I guess a hot coach in those days. Uh.

617
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 1: And the only school that really was after me was Rutgers.

618
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:17,279
Speaker 1: They had been after me when one of the time

619
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:21,719
Speaker 1: when I was at Fordham and they chose Craig little Page, uh,

620
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:25,720
Speaker 1: and that was fine with me. I really didn't chase

621
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 1: the job at all. But then it changed and they

622
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:33,000
Speaker 1: started paying really big money. At Rhode Island, I was

623
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:35,960
Speaker 1: one of the lowest paid coaches in the country. I

624
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:40,280
Speaker 1: was making forty seven thousand, five hundred from the University

625
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:46,319
Speaker 1: of Rhode Island in night six seven eight. They they

626
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:49,759
Speaker 1: gave me like a two thousand dollar raise in our

627
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:54,200
Speaker 1: sweet sixteen year and then all of a sudden, Rutgers

628
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:57,319
Speaker 1: is offered me like three hundred thousand, which seemed like

629
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 1: three million at the time and late eighties. So I

630
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:05,840
Speaker 1: was all set to go to Rutgers. I was going

631
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 1: to have a final interview with their athletic director at

632
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:12,319
Speaker 1: the Final Four in Kansas City. And then I got

633
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:17,960
Speaker 1: a call from Texas and their assistant athletic director was

634
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:21,840
Speaker 1: a guy who made contact with me. At the Saturday Games.

635
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 1: I just happened to be with some coaches. He knew

636
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 1: who I was. He introduced himself and then later on

637
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 1: I got a phone call from him, and and then

638
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:37,440
Speaker 1: later the athletic director the lost styles call. So it

639
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:40,840
Speaker 1: all happened so fast, and before the weekend was over,

640
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,919
Speaker 1: I was offered the Texas job for a lot more

641
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 1: than Rutgers was talking. So it was a combination of

642
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:54,239
Speaker 1: it being a challenge because Texas had no tradition in basketball.

643
00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 1: He had to go back to the forties. They had

644
00:39:57,520 --> 00:39:59,840
Speaker 1: two pennants on the wall last time I was in

645
00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 1: the jim or in the arena, it said Final four

646
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:07,759
Speaker 1: nineteen forty three and forty seven was the Elite eight.

647
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:12,240
Speaker 1: First Elite eight in nineteen forty three. Only eight teams

648
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:16,839
Speaker 1: were chosen to play. Everybody was in the Elite Yeah,

649
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 1: and it wasn't even the bigger tournament. Okay, so but

650
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:24,960
Speaker 1: but you did show up, and you inherited pretty good talent, right.

651
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,120
Speaker 1: That's like one of the things that's interesting about it

652
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 1: that that, uh, I think Bob Whatlets was the coach

653
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:34,239
Speaker 1: before you got there. But it wasn't uh, it wasn't

654
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:37,799
Speaker 1: a terrible team in terms of what what what you

655
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:41,640
Speaker 1: it was what Travis Mays was there, right, and Lance

656
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:46,759
Speaker 1: Blanks was there as well. Lance and Joey Wright with

657
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:52,160
Speaker 1: the BMW, Blanks, Mays and Right. They became very famous

658
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:57,400
Speaker 1: at least in Texas. Everybody had BMW shirts and uh

659
00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:01,840
Speaker 1: they were the triplets of our era, a great bunch

660
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:07,440
Speaker 1: of players, great kids. Well, Lance Blanks had transferred from Virginia.

661
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:11,640
Speaker 1: He sat out uh the year before I came there.

662
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:16,239
Speaker 1: Joey Wright was a drake. He averaged about a half

663
00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:20,919
Speaker 1: a point a game. Moaiba was an assistant coach there,

664
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:25,959
Speaker 1: I believe, and uh Mo told him that he wasn't

665
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 1: a Division one player and Lance Lance average like two

666
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:34,600
Speaker 1: minutes a game and scored eight points during his two

667
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 1: years of Virginia. You can look that stuff up. But

668
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 1: after like I'm looking it up as we speak, by

669
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:45,319
Speaker 1: it go ahead. Yeah, after a week of practice, I

670
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:48,799
Speaker 1: sat Joey right down and lanced down and I said,

671
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:52,160
Speaker 1: I don't care what you guys did at your previous schools.

672
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:54,719
Speaker 1: I said, you guys have a chance to be one

673
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:57,719
Speaker 1: of the best backcourts in the country. Along with Travis.

674
00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:00,920
Speaker 1: I said, we'll go with three guards too, guards whatever,

675
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:03,960
Speaker 1: and rotate you guys, but you're going to be the

676
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:08,040
Speaker 1: heart and soul of this team. And you know I

677
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:12,839
Speaker 1: know talent, and I just had to work with Joey

678
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 1: and Lance on their range, on the shot, learn how

679
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 1: to use your legs and your shot the follow through.

680
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:25,440
Speaker 1: Well I played. I was a player, and as a

681
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:27,880
Speaker 1: young coach, I had to teach kids how to shoot.

682
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:31,200
Speaker 1: And after a while, you get pretty good at it.

683
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:33,120
Speaker 1: And that is the one thing I did as a

684
00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:36,319
Speaker 1: Yukon player. I could shoot. I was a very good

685
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:39,240
Speaker 1: file shooter, and I was a very good shooter. My

686
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:42,840
Speaker 1: my points were scored, you know, sometimes beyond what was

687
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:46,200
Speaker 1: the NBA ARC. I was a long distance shooter, and

688
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:50,560
Speaker 1: I would drive and kick to my teammates instead of

689
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:55,400
Speaker 1: motion offense. It was me going around my defender, penetrating

690
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 1: and hitting the open man or throwing short lobs to

691
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 1: my big guy and anyway, I learned how to teach it.

692
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:05,640
Speaker 1: I had a great high school coach. My father was

693
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:09,279
Speaker 1: an outstanding basketball player. He knew how to shoot. So

694
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:12,320
Speaker 1: I learned at a very young age the fundamentals of shooting.

695
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 1: And I can spot kids. I can go and watch

696
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:19,880
Speaker 1: a guy shoot free throws for ten minutes and I

697
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 1: can tell you what he has to improve on, what

698
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:25,480
Speaker 1: he's doing wrong, and even to this day. You know,

699
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:27,600
Speaker 1: I can watch a game and see the kid. I

700
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:31,680
Speaker 1: see the rotation on the ball, watch his follow through,

701
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:34,880
Speaker 1: you know, as he set before he gets it, as

702
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:38,279
Speaker 1: he already started his shooting motion before, or just as

703
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:41,680
Speaker 1: he's catching the ball, or does he wait, look for

704
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:44,600
Speaker 1: the basket and then go through. He's lost all of

705
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:47,840
Speaker 1: his rhythm by that time. And sometimes that's the difference

706
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:50,960
Speaker 1: between being a great three point shooter and being a

707
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:55,840
Speaker 1: three point shooter. And you know, I've helped kids since

708
00:43:55,880 --> 00:44:00,719
Speaker 1: I retired, uh, you know, from all over the country

709
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:04,359
Speaker 1: improved their shooting. When I was in Texas last winter,

710
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:08,160
Speaker 1: I talked with Matt Coleman a lot about using his

711
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 1: legs and not not shooting jump shots from out, you know,

712
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:15,400
Speaker 1: long range in the fourth part of the game. You know,

713
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:19,960
Speaker 1: four minutes ago, your legs are dead. You're wide open,

714
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 1: but you don't have the strength to get it up there.

715
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:29,920
Speaker 1: So anyway, these players didn't have reputations or the history

716
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 1: of being that great. Travis Mays was a center of

717
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:37,280
Speaker 1: his high school team in Oakliflorida, and his high school

718
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:39,319
Speaker 1: coach told me when he called me up, he said,

719
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:41,480
Speaker 1: you know, we had to use him at center. We

720
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:44,200
Speaker 1: full court pressed and he's great at that no matter

721
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:46,960
Speaker 1: where you put him, and you know you're gonna have

722
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:48,880
Speaker 1: to work with him a little bit. Well, he was

723
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:52,960
Speaker 1: an easy study and he picked things up right away.

724
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:55,960
Speaker 1: He was one of those guys that every coach should have,

725
00:44:56,719 --> 00:45:00,200
Speaker 1: you know, he was he was glued into everything you said.

726
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:03,399
Speaker 1: You know, he took it home, wrote notes, and then

727
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:05,880
Speaker 1: you come back the next day with a couple of questions.

728
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:10,200
Speaker 1: He was that way about everything. He was conscientious the

729
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 1: whole bit. What was it like to coach your son?

730
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:18,920
Speaker 1: That was tough, Probably a lot tougher on me than

731
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:22,319
Speaker 1: it was for him. You know, he's had opportunities to

732
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:25,640
Speaker 1: talk about and he just cracks a smile and a joke.

733
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:28,600
Speaker 1: You know, Dad should have played me more. You know,

734
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:30,720
Speaker 1: he knew I was the best player on the team.

735
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:34,520
Speaker 1: But Tommy knew what he was getting into. You know,

736
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:37,480
Speaker 1: we had great guards at Texas when he came. We

737
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:42,160
Speaker 1: had b J. Tyler, who was a third team All American.

738
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:47,719
Speaker 1: You had Roderick Anderson and Reggie Freeman was like a

739
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:51,399
Speaker 1: four man on that team. And Terrence Rencher, the all

740
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:56,239
Speaker 1: time leading scorer who wasn't a scorer. He was like

741
00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:59,480
Speaker 1: fifteen points a game in high school. You know, he

742
00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:02,880
Speaker 1: got all the awards for you know, the team one.

743
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:06,920
Speaker 1: But Terence was a reluctant score. You know. I had

744
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:08,759
Speaker 1: to you know, kick him in the rear end a

745
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:11,960
Speaker 1: few times to get him to shoot more. But Terrence

746
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:16,560
Speaker 1: was a great player, all around player, defensively. He's now

747
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:20,600
Speaker 1: at Creighton working with their guards, and I thought that

748
00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:24,080
Speaker 1: was a great place for him to go. He's been around,

749
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:26,920
Speaker 1: he jumped around, you know, he tried to work his

750
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:31,000
Speaker 1: way up as an assistant coach with hopes of someday

751
00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:34,440
Speaker 1: maybe going back East and coaching in the Big East somewhere.

752
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:40,600
Speaker 1: So Craton is a great spot for him. Tommy, Tommy

753
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:43,919
Speaker 1: agreed to play there and I told him, I said, Tom,

754
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:46,520
Speaker 1: do you realize who's in front of you? He said, yeah,

755
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:49,240
Speaker 1: but that you know, I want to be part of winning.

756
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:51,520
Speaker 1: I wanted to be part of the whole deal. And

757
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:54,080
Speaker 1: it was just great to be around him every day.

758
00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:57,400
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, that was a godsend for me.

759
00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:00,520
Speaker 1: I loved it. And maybe I could have played the more,

760
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:03,000
Speaker 1: but I played them when it counted. He was always

761
00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:07,240
Speaker 1: on the floor. He was a finisher, great follow shooter,

762
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:11,560
Speaker 1: great open three point shooter. But he wasn't Terrence Rencher

763
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:17,680
Speaker 1: or b J. Tyler or Robert Anderson, so he knew that, Um,

764
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 1: your your teams, and obviously people are watching on the

765
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:24,920
Speaker 1: video flom you see the running horns. You guys used

766
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:27,080
Speaker 1: to really run, really push the basketball, and that was

767
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:29,040
Speaker 1: one of the things that freed some of these players

768
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:31,279
Speaker 1: up to have better college careers than even that high

769
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:35,240
Speaker 1: school careers. Right is you were and and Southwest Conference

770
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:39,000
Speaker 1: did play fast, but everywhere you went you played fast.

771
00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:42,440
Speaker 1: What if you were to give only two schools in

772
00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:46,560
Speaker 1: the Southwest Conference rant that was Arkansas and Texas. The

773
00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:49,880
Speaker 1: rest of them were walking it up the floor. And

774
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 1: on their weekly telecast on Saturday afternoon, all you heard

775
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:58,440
Speaker 1: we're bouncing basketballs and squeaking sneakers, kind of what we

776
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:01,799
Speaker 1: have to watch today with no crowd and you know,

777
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:04,720
Speaker 1: there's no no noise like the head of the NBA.

778
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:08,360
Speaker 1: Why do you think more coaches don't play fast? Well,

779
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:11,960
Speaker 1: I agree with my mentor Red r Back, and I

780
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:15,759
Speaker 1: asked him this question when I went to George Washington.

781
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:19,920
Speaker 1: He that's where his home is, and he just said

782
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:23,640
Speaker 1: he just thinks that coaches are paid too much money,

783
00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 1: and they have to justify the half. You know, this

784
00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:29,560
Speaker 1: five million a year. They have to stand up and

785
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:34,160
Speaker 1: act like they're calling every play, calling every possession. And

786
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:36,480
Speaker 1: you know the kids are locked in and they they're

787
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:39,759
Speaker 1: not allowed any freedom. They're not allowed to do with

788
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:46,600
Speaker 1: they can do best. In many cases. The exceptions are Gonzaga, Creighton,

789
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:52,040
Speaker 1: who I saw yesterday. Uh, sometimes Kansas lets their guys

790
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:55,480
Speaker 1: go a little bit. You know, I watched North Carolina

791
00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:59,239
Speaker 1: last night. Nobody's allowed to dribble. You know, you have

792
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:03,319
Speaker 1: to pass it and cut, pass it and cut, and

793
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:06,520
Speaker 1: bad teams can stay with it. With a great team

794
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:09,799
Speaker 1: like that, great talent. You know, Roy Williams last year

795
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:13,880
Speaker 1: won fourteen games doing the same thing, pass and cut,

796
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:17,560
Speaker 1: pass and cut, and probably two guys from that team

797
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:21,360
Speaker 1: will eventually play in the NBA. And now this team,

798
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:23,680
Speaker 1: you know, they're doing the same thing. These kids, they

799
00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:26,640
Speaker 1: come out of high school. They're great players in high school,

800
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:29,800
Speaker 1: but you know they're thinking too much. They gotta pass

801
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:32,360
Speaker 1: and they're looking for a guy to screen or cut.

802
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:38,760
Speaker 1: So you know, I just think that's the case. I believe.

803
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:42,239
Speaker 1: I believe Red are Back is right. Uh, you know,

804
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:46,320
Speaker 1: coaches now they're control freaks. Again. Back in the nineties,

805
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:49,480
Speaker 1: when we were playing on tempo, you also had U

806
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:52,759
Speaker 1: n l V averaging ninety something points the game. You

807
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:58,600
Speaker 1: had Duke averaging nine points a game. You had h.

808
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:03,799
Speaker 1: Loyola Merrimant averaging a hundred and nine points a game.

809
00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:08,799
Speaker 1: You know, we coaches of that era, we were We

810
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:12,480
Speaker 1: all came from that school where we got into coaching

811
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:15,280
Speaker 1: not for the money, and we thought of any money

812
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:18,759
Speaker 1: we got as bonus money. You know, we got we

813
00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:21,279
Speaker 1: got ears on our contract. Oh my god. You know

814
00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:24,200
Speaker 1: we're used to the handshake and the three page contract

815
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:29,200
Speaker 1: basically one page for your signature. And now you have

816
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:32,160
Speaker 1: to have a lawyer, you know, on an accountant, go

817
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:35,279
Speaker 1: in and speak to the people at the university. It's

818
00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:37,680
Speaker 1: gotten so the A D s and the coaches are

819
00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:41,160
Speaker 1: so separated. Most of these schools. Now in the a D.

820
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:45,000
Speaker 1: It's making maybe one tenth of what a coach is making.

821
00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:48,719
Speaker 1: And that doesn't make for a great job situation. Anytime

822
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:54,360
Speaker 1: you have people under making more money. There's there's presidents

823
00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:58,400
Speaker 1: making three million and the basketball coach is making nine million.

824
00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:02,279
Speaker 1: I don't see how that doesn't lead to trouble and

825
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:06,280
Speaker 1: a good argument for paying the players. You know, where's

826
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:09,480
Speaker 1: where do I fit in here? Coach? That's why they

827
00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:12,440
Speaker 1: talk about it. It's because of the coaches salaries. And

828
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to, you know, talk it down, but

829
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:18,960
Speaker 1: I think that's more reason for these coaches to let

830
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:22,760
Speaker 1: the kids go, you know, play. That was that era,

831
00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:27,880
Speaker 1: late eighties and all the way up until almost two thousand,

832
00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:31,640
Speaker 1: maybe a little over two thousand, you had kids staying

833
00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:34,800
Speaker 1: in school. I mean Shaquille O'Neal, we played l s

834
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:37,120
Speaker 1: U for three years in a row. He was there

835
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:40,480
Speaker 1: all three years. He didn't leave until after his third year.

836
00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:43,759
Speaker 1: Chris Jackson, who was on that team All American high

837
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:46,959
Speaker 1: scoring guard, he didn't leave until after the third year.

838
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:50,720
Speaker 1: And and that's that was the case. Nobody left early.

839
00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:54,680
Speaker 1: So it was the greatest era, the most talent ever

840
00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:57,759
Speaker 1: in the game. And today's sport is still a good

841
00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:01,759
Speaker 1: sport because kids are gonna opportunities and you've got a

842
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:05,560
Speaker 1: lot more parody in the game. You've got great coaches,

843
00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:08,960
Speaker 1: a lot more guys are really learning how to coach

844
00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:14,239
Speaker 1: defense and switch defenses, and their scouting reports are exceptional.

845
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:18,480
Speaker 1: You know, my former manager or Chris Beard, is the guy,

846
00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:21,719
Speaker 1: that guy at Texas Tech. He was my manager for

847
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:23,960
Speaker 1: four years and his last year I asked him to

848
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:26,960
Speaker 1: do all the filming and we had a scholarship for

849
00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:29,520
Speaker 1: him and he said, yes, sir, and he wanted to

850
00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:33,560
Speaker 1: be a coach. So anyway, Chris has done pretty well

851
00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:39,160
Speaker 1: for himself. Yeah, he's he learned a communication and the

852
00:52:39,239 --> 00:52:43,120
Speaker 1: team building stuff. I believe from being around me and

853
00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:46,480
Speaker 1: then Bob Knight. It was the opposite of the many ways.

854
00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:49,480
Speaker 1: But he's a great defensive coach. And you know, he

855
00:52:49,560 --> 00:52:52,520
Speaker 1: knew how to run the motion offense, which I believe

856
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:55,799
Speaker 1: it is obsolete today to a certain extent. But Chris

857
00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:59,800
Speaker 1: is figured out a way to include ball screening and

858
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:03,719
Speaker 1: he keeps good space thing usually with guys shooters in

859
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:06,520
Speaker 1: the corners and all the actions in the middle of

860
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:09,520
Speaker 1: the floor. I got, I got two minutes for you

861
00:53:09,719 --> 00:53:12,839
Speaker 1: and two minutes for you. Um. If somebody wanted to

862
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:19,640
Speaker 1: encapsulate your basketball philosophy and say this is who Tom

863
00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:24,360
Speaker 1: Penders is was as a Hall of Fame basketball coach,

864
00:53:24,520 --> 00:53:31,400
Speaker 1: former player with this incredible path to success, well I

865
00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:34,879
Speaker 1: think I was king of mission impossible. You know, in

866
00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:37,840
Speaker 1: some cases I was the only applicant for a job,

867
00:53:39,239 --> 00:53:42,959
Speaker 1: you know, like Columbia and Fordham. Are you even tough?

868
00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:48,160
Speaker 1: Nobody wanted those shops Rhode Island. It opened up in

869
00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:53,000
Speaker 1: in uh September, and they came after me. I didn't

870
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:56,000
Speaker 1: know the job was even open. I was very happy

871
00:53:56,080 --> 00:53:59,719
Speaker 1: at Fordham, but you know, my wife cried and we

872
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:02,120
Speaker 1: left New York City to go up to Rhode Island.

873
00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:08,839
Speaker 1: But you know, a builder of good programs. But even

874
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:13,680
Speaker 1: more important, you know I really believe, is my relationships.

875
00:54:13,719 --> 00:54:19,560
Speaker 1: I've got seven families of college kids from seven different universities,

876
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:23,400
Speaker 1: and every single one of them, you know, the guys

877
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:26,560
Speaker 1: who played for me, they stay in touch. And you

878
00:54:26,680 --> 00:54:29,360
Speaker 1: Tean Smith had that one family that everybody used to

879
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:33,160
Speaker 1: hear on every telecast. I have seven of them, and

880
00:54:33,480 --> 00:54:35,160
Speaker 1: you know, I expect a few of them to show

881
00:54:35,239 --> 00:54:41,239
Speaker 1: up to my funeral too. Uh. If you could, if

882
00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:44,479
Speaker 1: you change one thing about college about college basketball, would

883
00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:46,600
Speaker 1: it be that guys would just let their guys play?

884
00:54:46,719 --> 00:54:48,520
Speaker 1: Would it be paying their places? What? What would that

885
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:51,680
Speaker 1: last thing? I think, move it to twenty four seconds,

886
00:54:51,719 --> 00:54:54,399
Speaker 1: just like the pros, and moved the three point shot

887
00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:58,160
Speaker 1: out a little bit. It's getting too easy. I can't

888
00:54:58,200 --> 00:55:01,960
Speaker 1: go much deeper in the corners, but you know, move

889
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:05,640
Speaker 1: it out a little bit so there's more action, more driving.

890
00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:09,480
Speaker 1: The middle's open, which you're seeing more of, which was

891
00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:12,640
Speaker 1: the intention of the rule. But you know, you have

892
00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:16,600
Speaker 1: to keep tweaking. Basketball is the kids are gonna make

893
00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:19,360
Speaker 1: it at the next level. You know, you have a

894
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:21,520
Speaker 1: right as a coach. You have a choice as a

895
00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:26,560
Speaker 1: coach rather two help the kids along. So they're used

896
00:55:26,600 --> 00:55:31,160
Speaker 1: to playing NBA basketball and international basketball. They have a

897
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:35,640
Speaker 1: second clock. I've coached it, I've had the privilege of

898
00:55:35,719 --> 00:55:40,440
Speaker 1: playing international coaching international ball. And you know, the faster

899
00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:44,640
Speaker 1: the game is, the more entertaining the game is. Nobody

900
00:55:44,680 --> 00:55:48,560
Speaker 1: wants to see a forty eight score. I mean, you know,

901
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:52,560
Speaker 1: I saw a score yesterday Tennessee and somebody and it

902
00:55:52,680 --> 00:55:59,600
Speaker 1: was like I didn't even Yeah, I mean no, yeah,

903
00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:05,480
Speaker 1: that's that's going to the dentsis. Listen, you're always entertaining,

904
00:56:05,560 --> 00:56:08,160
Speaker 1: You're always welcome here. Let's do this again as the

905
00:56:08,200 --> 00:56:10,000
Speaker 1: season goes on and just talk ball and not talk

906
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:12,160
Speaker 1: as much about you, because your opinions are are great

907
00:56:12,200 --> 00:56:15,080
Speaker 1: on it. But in the meantime, congratulations to you and

908
00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:17,560
Speaker 1: your family, your and your seven basketball families in my

909
00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:19,800
Speaker 1: college Basketball Hall of Fame, and thanks so much for

910
00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:26,160
Speaker 1: joining us, Thanks so much. Stuck all right, the last

911
00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:28,320
Speaker 1: thing here and my thanks to coach Penders for joining

912
00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:32,120
Speaker 1: for what was nearly an hour conversation. My last thing

913
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:35,799
Speaker 1: is this, I love this James Harden story, right, like

914
00:56:35,880 --> 00:56:38,840
Speaker 1: the organization has done everything in their power to to

915
00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:40,839
Speaker 1: make it easier for him to win a championship. Now

916
00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:44,960
Speaker 1: he's disgruntled over the the their their ability to compete

917
00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:47,200
Speaker 1: for a championship because they got rid of Russell Westbrook

918
00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:49,520
Speaker 1: because they didn't seem to get along on the basketball floor.

919
00:56:49,800 --> 00:56:53,080
Speaker 1: And he's mad. And even if you are mad, even

920
00:56:53,080 --> 00:56:55,080
Speaker 1: you do want to be traded, My advice to any

921
00:56:55,120 --> 00:56:57,399
Speaker 1: professional athlete is show up to work and have those

922
00:56:57,400 --> 00:57:00,640
Speaker 1: conversations in confidence, not filter it through your agent and

923
00:57:01,160 --> 00:57:03,680
Speaker 1: you know and throwing these hissy fits. And I don't

924
00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:05,480
Speaker 1: blame the Rockets for going like, yeah, we we know

925
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:07,480
Speaker 1: you want to be traded. Doesn't matter play for us

926
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:14,200
Speaker 1: because he's an incredible talent. Incredible talent. Does he play defense?

927
00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:16,960
Speaker 1: Note does his style work in the postseason? Not really?

928
00:57:17,480 --> 00:57:19,480
Speaker 1: And I think some of that is he doesn't play defense.

929
00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:21,120
Speaker 1: And then the postseason, he tries to play a little

930
00:57:21,120 --> 00:57:23,280
Speaker 1: bit more defense and he just doesn't have the energy

931
00:57:23,280 --> 00:57:25,040
Speaker 1: for it to do what he does on offense. He

932
00:57:25,080 --> 00:57:27,520
Speaker 1: dominates that that style is great in regular season, doesn't

933
00:57:27,520 --> 00:57:30,320
Speaker 1: work in postseason. But that's not even the point. The

934
00:57:30,360 --> 00:57:32,800
Speaker 1: bigger point is why isn't he there? You got a

935
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:35,360
Speaker 1: new head coach, new general manager, the owner wasn't the

936
00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:38,880
Speaker 1: one who acquired you, or whatever. I just show up

937
00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:41,000
Speaker 1: and put on the brave face and smile, and if

938
00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:42,640
Speaker 1: you want to be traded, you can say as much.

939
00:57:43,880 --> 00:57:46,080
Speaker 1: But that organization is that everything their power to try

940
00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:48,520
Speaker 1: and create a winner around you. It hasn't worked as

941
00:57:48,520 --> 00:57:51,200
Speaker 1: of yet. And by my estivation, James Harden is as

942
00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:53,840
Speaker 1: much the problem as any of the guys that they've jettisoned.

943
00:57:55,000 --> 00:57:59,080
Speaker 1: And I think he's an incredible spectacular talent, not just scoring,

944
00:57:59,240 --> 00:58:02,720
Speaker 1: of passing the bat school as well. All Right, that's

945
00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:04,920
Speaker 1: it for all ball. Reminder to download or check out

946
00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:07,320
Speaker 1: The Doug Gotlip Show three to sixty Eastern twelve three Pacific,

947
00:58:07,320 --> 00:58:09,800
Speaker 1: Fox Sports Tradio dot Com, Fox Sports Tradio, I Heart

948
00:58:09,880 --> 00:58:13,560
Speaker 1: Radio app. Thanks to Tom Penderson, Thank you for listening.

949
00:58:13,560 --> 00:58:15,720
Speaker 1: I'm Doug Gottliebin. This is all ball.