1
00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:13,320
Speaker 1: This is the me Eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,

2
00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:18,319
Speaker 1: bug bitten, and in my case, underware. Listening past, you

3
00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:22,360
Speaker 1: can't predict anything brought to you by first Light. When

4
00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:26,600
Speaker 1: I'm hunting, I need gear that won't quit. First Light builds,

5
00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:30,160
Speaker 1: no compromise, gear that keeps me in the field longer,

6
00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:34,120
Speaker 1: no shortcuts, just gear that works. Check it out at

7
00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:37,599
Speaker 1: first Light dot com. That's f I R S T

8
00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:44,159
Speaker 1: L I T E dot com. All right, man, Randy

9
00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:47,600
Speaker 1: Brown is back. No, not Dave. It's the opposite of

10
00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:54,760
Speaker 1: debut return, repeat en court performance by Randy Brown. Because

11
00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:57,360
Speaker 1: because Randy came on, what what the hell do we

12
00:00:57,400 --> 00:00:59,720
Speaker 1: call that episode?

13
00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:03,360
Speaker 2: Living in the woods, living off the land?

14
00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:06,520
Speaker 1: Fifteen years living off land? Randy Brown came in some

15
00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:10,959
Speaker 1: time ago, I don't know, and it was spectacular. We

16
00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:14,120
Speaker 1: couldn't we didn't scratch the surface. We talked like just

17
00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:16,959
Speaker 1: a recap to tell people the years you lived, the

18
00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:17,959
Speaker 1: years you went out and.

19
00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:21,200
Speaker 2: Lived off the land in Alaska. Well it was about

20
00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:23,720
Speaker 2: fifteen altogether, okay, yeah.

21
00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:27,520
Speaker 1: And this is recap, just yeah, we're gonna recap. Yeah. Yeah.

22
00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:29,840
Speaker 2: And so I went out on the Yukon and it

23
00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:35,120
Speaker 2: was you know, mush dogs and built cabins. Was able

24
00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:38,920
Speaker 2: to persuade Karen Love My Life to come out there

25
00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:41,640
Speaker 2: with me, which was that was probably one of the

26
00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:43,199
Speaker 2: tougher things to do.

27
00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:45,560
Speaker 1: But yeah, it was.

28
00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:49,680
Speaker 2: And then she would teach in a few times out

29
00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:53,320
Speaker 2: in some of the rural communities and that was fun too,

30
00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:57,080
Speaker 2: you know, taking as I would, mush dogs and fish

31
00:01:57,120 --> 00:01:59,920
Speaker 2: and hunt, seeing new places in the state.

32
00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:02,480
Speaker 1: And you did a lot of a lot of fur trapping.

33
00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:04,640
Speaker 1: And when you came on, we told the story of

34
00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:08,160
Speaker 1: you finding a body a guy tried to find out

35
00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:10,720
Speaker 1: the identity of that body. I even brought it up

36
00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:14,120
Speaker 1: on Rogan's podcast, thinking that him having such a huge

37
00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:17,040
Speaker 1: audience would turn up some stuff. We'll check in with

38
00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:19,920
Speaker 1: you in a minute there, okay, to find out if

39
00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:22,800
Speaker 1: we found out any uh, if you've ever gotten any

40
00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:25,800
Speaker 1: intriguing hints about the body you found. The guy you

41
00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:31,480
Speaker 1: called Smeegel called himself John the Baptist. And then the

42
00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:32,919
Speaker 1: reason why he wanted you to come back on is

43
00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:34,919
Speaker 1: because we never because we talked about all this big

44
00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:38,600
Speaker 1: picture stuff like timeline and all that, but we didn't

45
00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:41,919
Speaker 1: get into a lot of the nuts and bolts tactical

46
00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:47,720
Speaker 1: stuff about living off the country in Alaska. So I

47
00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:50,440
Speaker 1: want to get back into a bunch of things with you.

48
00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:52,320
Speaker 1: But the minute we got done recording, I was like, man,

49
00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:55,360
Speaker 1: I dude's got to come back on, and our audience

50
00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:58,080
Speaker 1: as well wanted to come back on because we did.

51
00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:00,800
Speaker 1: We did. We haven't fully extracted all the usable information

52
00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:04,600
Speaker 1: from your brain. Okay, we're gonna we're gonna continue the

53
00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:07,960
Speaker 1: We're gonna we're gonna dive into the Randy Brown brain

54
00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:12,560
Speaker 1: extraction and find out more about just kind of like

55
00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:17,720
Speaker 1: a life that's like, uh, staggering in its boldness. That'd

56
00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:20,119
Speaker 1: be a good blurb. Yeah that's a blurb, but staggering

57
00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:21,760
Speaker 1: in its boldness. Yeah, there you go.

58
00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:24,080
Speaker 3: Uh.

59
00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:28,280
Speaker 1: Before we do that, here's a couple of things. Randall

60
00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:33,560
Speaker 1: and I, doctor Randall, and I work on this this series.

61
00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:36,120
Speaker 1: I'm telling the audience thiss not you, but you can listen.

62
00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:40,720
Speaker 1: We work on a series called meat Eaters of American History.

63
00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:44,960
Speaker 1: So uh as you guys know it, because we uhould

64
00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:48,360
Speaker 1: do podcast episodes. When we launched these different volumes of

65
00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:51,040
Speaker 1: meat Eaters of American History. So the first Meat Eaters of

66
00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:53,600
Speaker 1: American History we did is we did one on the

67
00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:56,360
Speaker 1: long hunters, and so the most famous long hunter being

68
00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:59,640
Speaker 1: Daniel Boone. So we get a meat Eater's of American History,

69
00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:02,800
Speaker 1: The Laws, and that covered the years I believe it

70
00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:08,920
Speaker 1: was seventeen sixty three to seventeen seventy five, and it

71
00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:16,480
Speaker 1: was about the deer skin trade, primarily around Appalachia, the

72
00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:21,159
Speaker 1: Kentucky region, but the American Colonial Frontier deer skin trade.

73
00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:24,520
Speaker 1: The second volume of meat Eaters American History we did

74
00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:27,400
Speaker 1: was called The Mountain Men, and that covered eighteen oh

75
00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:31,159
Speaker 1: six to eighteen forty and that was about the beaver

76
00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:35,080
Speaker 1: skin trade of those years. Well, Volume three is coming out.

77
00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:40,320
Speaker 1: Pre sales are available now. It's an audio original, so

78
00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:43,200
Speaker 1: it's not a print book. It's an audio original. Volume

79
00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:47,400
Speaker 1: three is available now and it's called me Eater's American History,

80
00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:53,680
Speaker 1: The Hide Hunters, and it's about the buffalo skin trade

81
00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:57,520
Speaker 1: and it covers eighteen sixty five, so it starts at

82
00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:01,799
Speaker 1: the end of the Civil War, covers up until eighteen

83
00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:05,680
Speaker 1: eighty three, which was the last great shoot. At that

84
00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:09,360
Speaker 1: point they were gone, they were effectively gone. So Meetater's

85
00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:13,200
Speaker 1: American History The Hide Hunters tells this story of the

86
00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:18,000
Speaker 1: buffalo hide hunters predominantly dudes, kind of spun out of

87
00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:23,000
Speaker 1: the chaos of the Civil War. The Big Hide Hunt

88
00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:27,880
Speaker 1: starts down in Kansas. First it moves south into Texas,

89
00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:34,160
Speaker 1: then it moves north into Montana. And it's that story

90
00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:37,120
Speaker 1: of kind of the wind down of the Civil War,

91
00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:44,320
Speaker 1: the chaos and catastrophe of the Civil War, the American government,

92
00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:47,920
Speaker 1: the federal government, turning its eyes westward after the Civil

93
00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:51,520
Speaker 1: War is over, turning it westward in two ways, railroad

94
00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:57,040
Speaker 1: expansion and the Indian Wars, and how those efforts kind

95
00:05:57,040 --> 00:06:00,120
Speaker 1: of opened up the great planes to the hide hunters,

96
00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:05,680
Speaker 1: who very quickly put themselves out of business by killing

97
00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:10,520
Speaker 1: all of their target animals. It's a story about leather production.

98
00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:15,280
Speaker 1: It's a story about combat between whites and Native Americans

99
00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:19,880
Speaker 1: on the southern plains, and it's a story about just

100
00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:24,320
Speaker 1: really not understanding the finiteness of a resource. So Meat

101
00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:28,080
Speaker 1: Eater's American History, The High Hunters eighteen sixty five to

102
00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:35,600
Speaker 1: eighteen eighty three available for pre order. Now another little

103
00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:38,560
Speaker 1: news bit here, So the met Eater crew is hitting

104
00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:40,560
Speaker 1: the road again this fall. Last year, a bunch of

105
00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:43,920
Speaker 1: our guys headed out to do tailgate tours. A bunch

106
00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:46,240
Speaker 1: more guys are heading out to do tail gate tours

107
00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:51,320
Speaker 1: this year. Meat Eater Tailgate Tour presented by Dometic. If

108
00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:55,800
Speaker 1: you have a camper like an RV unit, and you

109
00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:59,080
Speaker 1: look at the fridge and your RV unit, there's a

110
00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:01,320
Speaker 1: high likelihood, it says Dometic on it. They make all

111
00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:05,080
Speaker 1: kinds of camping gear, electric coolers, they make all kinds

112
00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:08,600
Speaker 1: of stuff, tons of great products. So presented by Dometic.

113
00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:12,480
Speaker 1: Got free food, you can hang out with the crew.

114
00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:18,000
Speaker 1: Texas at Ohio State that's on August thirty, that's Randall

115
00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:23,000
Speaker 1: and Giannis. Kansas at Missouri that'll be Clay and Baron Newcombe.

116
00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:30,080
Speaker 1: That's Columbus, Missouri September six. What's UTEP mean? University of

117
00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:37,080
Speaker 1: Texas Huh? At Texas that's easy. Yeah, that's Texas v

118
00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:42,320
Speaker 1: Texas Austin, Texas, Saturday, September thirty. Jesse Griffiths will be

119
00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:47,920
Speaker 1: there slinging some grub. And then Maryland at Wisconsin in Madison, Wisconsin,

120
00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:56,280
Speaker 1: September twenty. That'll be Spencer Chester and Garrett Long. Garrett Long. Yeah,

121
00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:59,360
Speaker 1: they're slinging grub at the tailgate tour. So any of

122
00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:01,760
Speaker 1: these places go on the tailgate tour. You're gonna come out.

123
00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:03,640
Speaker 1: You're gonna see their tent and you can go get

124
00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:06,720
Speaker 1: hang out and get free food. Meet eater tailgate tour.

125
00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:10,360
Speaker 1: Oh I miss some Seth and Brody. Oh this because

126
00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:15,960
Speaker 1: this is like cess little home spot Oregon at penn

127
00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:21,080
Speaker 1: State University Park, Pennsylvania, September twenty seventh, Our two big

128
00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:23,520
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania guys, Seth and Brodi, you're gonna be running that

129
00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:31,960
Speaker 1: tailgate tour. And then Boise State at Notre Dame Notre Dame, Indiana, Saturday,

130
00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:37,440
Speaker 1: October four. That's gonna be Mark, Jannie and Garrett slinging

131
00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:41,640
Speaker 1: grub for the tailgate tour at that game. Stop in

132
00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:47,280
Speaker 1: and see those fellas. An quick thing. I think we're

133
00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:49,480
Speaker 1: off to the races. Oh no, yeah, one more thing.

134
00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:51,120
Speaker 1: We're off to the race. Is that correct? No? Two

135
00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:55,640
Speaker 1: more things? Oh, you guys have been seeing us like everybody.

136
00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:56,920
Speaker 1: A lot of the guys have coming out on the

137
00:08:56,920 --> 00:09:00,559
Speaker 1: show kind of living this first light navigator hoodie. These

138
00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:02,640
Speaker 1: are out and available. I didn't know they made them

139
00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:06,679
Speaker 1: in this color until I got one there day. I know.

140
00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:09,720
Speaker 1: And I'm supposed to tell everybuddy about all the wild,

141
00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:13,960
Speaker 1: crazy hunting, fishing trips I've done in mind my fleece

142
00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:17,800
Speaker 1: lined hoodie. But I just wear it all the time.

143
00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:19,760
Speaker 1: I wear it on the plane, I wear it when

144
00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:21,360
Speaker 1: I'm yelling at my kids. I wear it when I'm

145
00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:24,319
Speaker 1: having dinner at my wife. It's just my main like garment.

146
00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:27,559
Speaker 1: Check it out at first light dot com. It's the

147
00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:30,280
Speaker 1: most comfortable thing I own. I live in it. Oh.

148
00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:32,960
Speaker 1: The last thing. If there's any people out there, this

149
00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:41,560
Speaker 1: could be you who are like wizards at GE freezers,

150
00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:48,040
Speaker 1: listen to this problem I have. I have a brand

151
00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:51,000
Speaker 1: new GE freezer at my fish shack in Alaska. It's

152
00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:56,760
Speaker 1: not it's one year old. The first year it worked, okay.

153
00:09:56,920 --> 00:09:59,079
Speaker 1: First off, when you get a freezer to a place

154
00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:02,200
Speaker 1: like that, it's not co the back. It's like it

155
00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:04,600
Speaker 1: came out on a boat. Right. You're not gonna like

156
00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:07,960
Speaker 1: bring it in for service. This is it gonna work?

157
00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:15,360
Speaker 1: Brand new Ge Chess freezer. The year I get it, it

158
00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:19,040
Speaker 1: works fine, come back up in May it doesn't work anymore.

159
00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:22,680
Speaker 1: But get this, it's like it's possessed on this freezer.

160
00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:26,000
Speaker 1: This is for someone that's a ge like I need

161
00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:31,720
Speaker 1: your help if this thing's on the on light doesn't

162
00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:35,480
Speaker 1: come on if you turn it off. You follow me.

163
00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:39,120
Speaker 1: If you turn the dial and click it off, the

164
00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:43,959
Speaker 1: on light comes on, but it doesn't turn on. If

165
00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:48,640
Speaker 1: you open the lid, the on light goes off. This

166
00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:54,640
Speaker 1: is like an electronics problem. No again, If you turn

167
00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:58,360
Speaker 1: it off, the on light comes on, but it doesn't

168
00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:01,560
Speaker 1: turn on. And if you if the lit up, the

169
00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:05,520
Speaker 1: on light goes off. The compressors do not run. It's possessed.

170
00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:11,840
Speaker 1: If I call someone eight hundred number, I am It's like, no,

171
00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:14,440
Speaker 1: there's no person on the planet that you're gonna call

172
00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:17,319
Speaker 1: on a one eight hundred number that is gonna be like, oh,

173
00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:27,960
Speaker 1: what you need to do is blank? You follow my problem?

174
00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:30,880
Speaker 1: Do you understand what I'm saying? What could cause that?

175
00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:38,160
Speaker 1: If you're out there and you are like a wizard

176
00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:42,360
Speaker 1: at freezers send a go to the meat eater at

177
00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:44,600
Speaker 1: the meter dot com and write like freezers in the

178
00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:47,800
Speaker 1: subject line. I will like if you have If you know,

179
00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:49,880
Speaker 1: I will, I will call you and we will talk

180
00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:52,040
Speaker 1: about it. I feel like it needs like a new

181
00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:59,680
Speaker 1: It's something electronic. Man maybe got a fault, but it worked.

182
00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:03,960
Speaker 1: It's probably under warranty. But what do you do? I

183
00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:05,719
Speaker 1: can't haul it out of there. I'm not going to

184
00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:11,200
Speaker 1: bring it to town. No, it's eight hundred bucks down the drain.

185
00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:22,240
Speaker 1: You want, Yeah, you'd have to burn all the insulation up.

186
00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:24,160
Speaker 1: You can't even get rid of a freezer like that.

187
00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:32,920
Speaker 1: I just like that's a moment of like in speech,

188
00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:35,880
Speaker 1: there's a moment of silence to like have people meditate

189
00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:39,880
Speaker 1: on something. I want people to meditate, to meditate from

190
00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:49,440
Speaker 1: minute on this there. If you know a lot about freezers, man,

191
00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:52,280
Speaker 1: I need to talk to you because I know that

192
00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:54,439
Speaker 1: like calling a one eight hundred number isn't going to

193
00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:58,920
Speaker 1: do it. It's gonna be a dude that barely speaks English,

194
00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:01,600
Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh no, check out, you turn it off.

195
00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:06,960
Speaker 1: You know, it's just like it's never gonna work. So

196
00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:09,080
Speaker 1: what'd you find out about? Can you recap the John

197
00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:12,640
Speaker 1: the Baptist story for us? Okay, just a quick recap

198
00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:15,480
Speaker 1: because I want to find out if we've found out.

199
00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:20,840
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, Yeah. So so John the Baptist that's what

200
00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:26,199
Speaker 2: he called himself, came down and got abandoned, came downs,

201
00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:30,520
Speaker 2: came down to Yukon between the towns of Eagle and Circle.

202
00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:33,960
Speaker 2: So it came down from Canada. That's what he claims,

203
00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:36,800
Speaker 2: and I think he's I think that was true. And

204
00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:39,640
Speaker 2: then with his buddy, with his buddy, and his buddy

205
00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:45,360
Speaker 2: then shoved their raft off and and left at one

206
00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:48,080
Speaker 2: point in time, and he happened to be near the

207
00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:52,520
Speaker 2: mouth of the Candick River where this fella Fred lived,

208
00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:54,880
Speaker 2: and Fred took him in for a while.

209
00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:59,840
Speaker 1: And can you remind everybody what year this is? This is.

210
00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:06,600
Speaker 2: I think it was nineteen seventy eight, seventy nine. Yeah, And.

211
00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:09,880
Speaker 1: So then.

212
00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:16,000
Speaker 2: Fred ended up going back east to visit family. He

213
00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:19,280
Speaker 2: hadn't been back east in a bunch of years at

214
00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:22,920
Speaker 2: that point, and told him he had to leave, and

215
00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:28,400
Speaker 2: he didn't. And he just stayed and had his way

216
00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:35,400
Speaker 2: with all the Fred's stuff, food for his equipment, and

217
00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:40,520
Speaker 2: actually moved a bunch of stuff from his cabin it

218
00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:43,320
Speaker 2: was out the mouth of Candy to a place about

219
00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:47,360
Speaker 2: three miles up up river up on the Candy and

220
00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:52,000
Speaker 2: smoked all his weed and ate most of his fish.

221
00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:55,080
Speaker 1: And was there a lot of weed smoking in those

222
00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:58,960
Speaker 1: days up there? No could you grow it or did

223
00:14:58,960 --> 00:14:59,720
Speaker 1: you have to bring it in?

224
00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:04,880
Speaker 2: People did, but it's uh it it requires you know,

225
00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:08,760
Speaker 2: some sort of a of a night day period that

226
00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:11,320
Speaker 2: you don't have up there. So it was, uh, I

227
00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:13,160
Speaker 2: don't know, there were there were people that grew it.

228
00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:18,120
Speaker 1: But also like if you're trying to grow weed and

229
00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:21,080
Speaker 1: it's daylight twenty four hours a day, the weed doesn't

230
00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:21,400
Speaker 1: like that.

231
00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:25,560
Speaker 2: It doesn't it doesn't grow well. No, and uh, and

232
00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:28,240
Speaker 2: I don't I didn't grow it at all. I didn't

233
00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:33,760
Speaker 2: do any gardening. But but yeah, so so Fred did though,

234
00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:36,560
Speaker 2: but it was kind of rudimentary. He would throw a

235
00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:39,240
Speaker 2: dog shit and seeds up on the roof of his

236
00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:41,680
Speaker 2: cabin and that's how he grew it, which is just

237
00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:42,920
Speaker 2: you know.

238
00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:45,840
Speaker 1: These spin in a medium of dog shit.

239
00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:49,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that was the that was the fertilizer.

240
00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:54,440
Speaker 1: So that's not even that's not even ditch weed, man,

241
00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:55,920
Speaker 1: you know, no, but.

242
00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:00,200
Speaker 2: For Fred, that was better than nothing, right, And so

243
00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:01,920
Speaker 2: except that this guy then.

244
00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:04,320
Speaker 1: Saw you, I mean, I don't know. I mean, like,

245
00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:07,280
Speaker 1: you could tell me that it was I'm not like

246
00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:10,800
Speaker 1: a I'm not a connoissewer. I don't even partake, but

247
00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:14,000
Speaker 1: you could tell me that. You could tell me that

248
00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:16,360
Speaker 1: the best weed in the world girls out of dog shit,

249
00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:20,320
Speaker 1: and I wouldn't know. I wouldn't refute it. I don't

250
00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:20,760
Speaker 1: know either.

251
00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:25,080
Speaker 2: Well, well, but but if anyway, fred Fred got pissed

252
00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:27,280
Speaker 2: off and told him that, you know, when he did

253
00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:30,640
Speaker 2: come back in November, that he had to get out

254
00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:32,520
Speaker 2: of there, he had to leave, go to Circle or

255
00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:34,520
Speaker 2: go to Eagle when the river froze up.

256
00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:35,720
Speaker 3: And he he.

257
00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:38,320
Speaker 2: Took a different tactic, and he said he's going to

258
00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:41,120
Speaker 2: go to chel Keittswick, which was way north and all,

259
00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:44,720
Speaker 2: you know, through the woods and everything, and and and.

260
00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:46,720
Speaker 1: How many miles would that be when he when this

261
00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:48,800
Speaker 1: guy says he's going to go overland.

262
00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:51,600
Speaker 2: Well it would be over one hundred miles. Yeah, the

263
00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:55,080
Speaker 2: way you'd have to walk and and through you know

264
00:16:55,240 --> 00:17:00,400
Speaker 2: forest or a windy old black river. You know that

265
00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:04,760
Speaker 2: now it's called the Dronjic. Name was changed not too

266
00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:11,520
Speaker 2: long ago. And yeah, but we didn't think that he

267
00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:13,480
Speaker 2: could make it. There's not a chance in hell that

268
00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:15,280
Speaker 2: he could. He could do that.

269
00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:18,960
Speaker 1: He he because he didn't have You could make it, though,

270
00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:21,720
Speaker 1: I don't think so. Oh why could you not make it?

271
00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:24,440
Speaker 2: Well, it's pretty barren country, you know, I mean I

272
00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:27,359
Speaker 2: would if I went, you'd still have to shoot a

273
00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:30,840
Speaker 2: moose or shoot a or shoot some cariboo, but there

274
00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:35,080
Speaker 2: weren't very many caribou there. There were cariboo near the

275
00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:38,119
Speaker 2: border because that was where the Ogili Mountains stopped, you know,

276
00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:41,720
Speaker 2: and that it was wintering ground porcupine caribou that we

277
00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:46,040
Speaker 2: would get in the Upper Candic River, Upper Nation River,

278
00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:49,480
Speaker 2: and in the in the Black River, but close to

279
00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:52,440
Speaker 2: the border because then it gets into flats and the

280
00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:55,879
Speaker 2: caribou just didn't go there very often, so to be

281
00:17:56,359 --> 00:18:00,760
Speaker 2: unlikely that you could run across Cariboo going straight U

282
00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:02,120
Speaker 2: to chuck KEATSI.

283
00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:07,240
Speaker 1: Now, I haven't done like, I've never done these kind

284
00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:14,080
Speaker 1: of walks up there. But one hundred miles I understand,

285
00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:18,320
Speaker 1: Like why couldn't you just like with a pack of food.

286
00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:20,399
Speaker 1: I mean, how many miles a day can you get

287
00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:21,199
Speaker 1: in that kind of stuff.

288
00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:25,920
Speaker 2: Well, you know, you could probably go you know, six

289
00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:29,239
Speaker 2: or eight miles, ten miles maybe if you were if

290
00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:31,280
Speaker 2: you were good, you had a good pair of snow shoes.

291
00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:36,359
Speaker 2: You know, when when the country is it is covered

292
00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:38,800
Speaker 2: in snow, you know, three four feet of snow on

293
00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:42,760
Speaker 2: the ground. It's tough breaking trail. I got you, It's

294
00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:43,359
Speaker 2: not a simp.

295
00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:46,560
Speaker 1: I wasn't factoring in I wasn't thinking about it that way.

296
00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:49,439
Speaker 1: I wasn't thinking about it being the wintertime cold and

297
00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:50,800
Speaker 1: shit it snow.

298
00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:53,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's a lot easier to walk on the

299
00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:57,240
Speaker 2: on the rivers than trying to bust across country. And

300
00:18:57,359 --> 00:19:00,040
Speaker 2: you know, when you got all sorts of brushing, and

301
00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:04,800
Speaker 2: you know different some areas have burned and have down trees,

302
00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:06,720
Speaker 2: and it's it's.

303
00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:07,639
Speaker 1: Pretty tough, you know.

304
00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:10,440
Speaker 2: So you got there's a lot of different issues, but

305
00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:13,280
Speaker 2: part of it is feeding yourself. He had a twenty

306
00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:16,399
Speaker 2: two that Fred len him a twenty two pistol. He

307
00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:20,359
Speaker 2: had his buddy had left left him with this twenty

308
00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:24,240
Speaker 2: gauge double barrel, twenty gauge rossy shotgun. But he didn't

309
00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:28,679
Speaker 2: have any ammunition for it. Neither did we, and and

310
00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:32,560
Speaker 2: so he he he had a twenty two pistol. Well,

311
00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:35,959
Speaker 2: you're not going to shoot a moose or anything large

312
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:37,800
Speaker 2: with it that could actually feed you. And even if

313
00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:40,119
Speaker 2: you did shoot a moose, you wouldn't be able to

314
00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:41,080
Speaker 2: take it very far.

315
00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:45,520
Speaker 1: So it's possible that you could that you could.

316
00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:48,040
Speaker 2: I mean, if if I were to set off on

317
00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:51,119
Speaker 2: that kind of a journey, you'd have the equipment that

318
00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:53,440
Speaker 2: you needed to do it. You know, you're going to

319
00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:57,879
Speaker 2: either either poke holes in a in a pond or

320
00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:02,199
Speaker 2: near a beaver house on a river and snare at

321
00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:07,240
Speaker 2: trap beavers, you know, to feed yourself. Have some dogs along.

322
00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:10,200
Speaker 2: I help you with moving stuff.

323
00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:14,320
Speaker 1: But that breaking across country like.

324
00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:16,600
Speaker 2: That is really tough, and you know, and you'd have

325
00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:20,119
Speaker 2: to feeding yourselves and everything else. So you know, you

326
00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:23,000
Speaker 2: just don't have that much small game that you could

327
00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:25,960
Speaker 2: feed yourself very easily within the winter.

328
00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:31,720
Speaker 1: So what was this dude's if he had easy access

329
00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:35,040
Speaker 1: to go on the ice to two different towns on

330
00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:38,840
Speaker 1: the Yukon, what was his draw? Like? Why did he

331
00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:41,520
Speaker 1: want to travel cross country to the north.

332
00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:45,440
Speaker 2: I have no idea, Okay, I have no idea, but

333
00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:48,280
Speaker 2: that's what he that's what he told Fred.

334
00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:49,679
Speaker 1: He took off.

335
00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:55,080
Speaker 2: And he ended up finding this little cabin that we

336
00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:58,280
Speaker 2: had built a couple of years before. It's just a

337
00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:00,760
Speaker 2: safety cabin about ten miles up and.

338
00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:03,720
Speaker 1: We so he made it ten miles yeah out of

339
00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:04,160
Speaker 1: one hundred.

340
00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:13,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, And and that's where that's where he stayed. And

341
00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:15,800
Speaker 2: and he did he did get something. So you know,

342
00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:19,000
Speaker 2: there was a ball jar in there that had a

343
00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:22,840
Speaker 2: Martin skin in it and uh, and he had he

344
00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:26,000
Speaker 2: had peed in it too. It was urine in there

345
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:27,639
Speaker 2: with the Martin skin. I think he was trying to

346
00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:31,280
Speaker 2: I think he was trying to tan it or something.

347
00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:32,360
Speaker 3: I don't know, but.

348
00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:36,040
Speaker 2: Just soaking it and piss yeah, And I mean that's

349
00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:37,960
Speaker 2: what he did. I we you don't know what was

350
00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:39,879
Speaker 2: in his mind. Yeah, I have no idea what was

351
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:42,320
Speaker 2: in his mind, but that's what we kind of thought.

352
00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:45,840
Speaker 2: But but that was he got that with a twenty

353
00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:50,160
Speaker 2: two clearly, you know. And and but you know Martin

354
00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:52,200
Speaker 2: or Bold, you know, they'll come down a tree and

355
00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:53,240
Speaker 2: yell at you and.

356
00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:57,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, other things. I touched one one time. What's that

357
00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:00,639
Speaker 1: I was able to touch one one time? Uh, A

358
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:02,879
Speaker 1: live one huh just real. Yeah, he's real curious. I

359
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:05,520
Speaker 1: was bowl hunting. He's real curious. Yeah, And he was

360
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:07,000
Speaker 1: kind of on a tree and I just wanted to

361
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:09,199
Speaker 1: see if I could, and actually he was so I mean,

362
00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:11,719
Speaker 1: there's not many animals to let you do that. No,

363
00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:13,639
Speaker 1: I was actually able to put my hand on it.

364
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:18,159
Speaker 2: I don't think they fear anything, yeah, really, and I

365
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:21,840
Speaker 2: think they feel they're pretty on top of it and

366
00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:25,879
Speaker 2: deal with whatever. They're a bold animal and uh and

367
00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:30,760
Speaker 2: so as are you know, the the ermines, the weasels.

368
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:34,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're they're They're pretty scary.

369
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:37,600
Speaker 2: Actually when you I caught one one time, and I

370
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:41,520
Speaker 2: was trapping voles at our place in Fairbanks and feeding

371
00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:43,280
Speaker 2: them to our I had a bull snake for a

372
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:46,600
Speaker 2: while and uh, this was after we had moved in there,

373
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:49,840
Speaker 2: and uh, and I would feed it the voles. Well,

374
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:52,480
Speaker 2: I catch this this uh and it was a live

375
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:55,359
Speaker 2: catch trap, you know, a little have a heart and uh.

376
00:22:56,359 --> 00:23:01,080
Speaker 2: And I caught a weasel and uh. And I had

377
00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:04,760
Speaker 2: this little bird cage and I could open the door

378
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:08,600
Speaker 2: on the bird cage and let the ermine into the

379
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:11,160
Speaker 2: cage and close the door and then wire it closed.

380
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:12,600
Speaker 1: But you know those.

381
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:15,560
Speaker 2: Cartoons where they have the cat running around on the

382
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:18,800
Speaker 2: wall sideways, you know, That's how this guy was in that,

383
00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:22,359
Speaker 2: in that bird cage. And he would take a moment

384
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:26,840
Speaker 2: off every once in a while and jump to the

385
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:30,320
Speaker 2: side of the cage closest to me and scream, you know,

386
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:32,720
Speaker 2: and then go back to running around. I go, well,

387
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:34,440
Speaker 2: this guy is going to get out of this. This

388
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:37,280
Speaker 2: won't hold him for very long. And so I went

389
00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:40,439
Speaker 2: out and turned him loose because he'll probably kill the snake.

390
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:45,159
Speaker 2: I put him in with a snake. But they're a trip.

391
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:45,720
Speaker 1: Yeah.

392
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:49,119
Speaker 2: But anyway, we're back to Smiegel, right. So he's he's

393
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 2: in this in this cabin that we had built back

394
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:56,479
Speaker 2: in the woods because we didn't want airplanes to see us.

395
00:23:56,520 --> 00:24:00,960
Speaker 2: Actually since I you know what started flying and with

396
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:06,080
Speaker 2: my job, it's it's amazing how easy you spot something

397
00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 2: that's rectangular down in the woods. It's it's almost nothing

398
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,240
Speaker 2: can hide. But why are we trying to hide it

399
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:15,359
Speaker 2: from planes? We just we didn't know whether somebody would

400
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:19,720
Speaker 2: try and come and kick us off. Okay, so we

401
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:22,359
Speaker 2: would We just built our cabins as deep into the

402
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:23,520
Speaker 2: forest as possible.

403
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:26,160
Speaker 1: Got it, and he found and then later you learned

404
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:27,879
Speaker 1: that that's not an effective strategy.

405
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:31,920
Speaker 2: It's not an effective strategy. They'll that you can see

406
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:34,080
Speaker 2: it well, you know, almost always.

407
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:36,959
Speaker 1: So so anyway, he found it.

408
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:40,399
Speaker 2: I don't know how the heck he found it and

409
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:44,479
Speaker 2: and and stayed there, you know, whether he whether he

410
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:47,800
Speaker 2: froze his feet or whether he he you know, I

411
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:51,240
Speaker 2: don't know what what drove him, but but he was

412
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:55,679
Speaker 2: there and and dead when we found him the next spring.

413
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 1: So you were one. Yeah, And then just to remind

414
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:08,720
Speaker 1: listeners a little bit some of this backstory, Yeah, you

415
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 1: found him dead. Was he so was he rotted down

416
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 1: or just frozen? No? Well, I think he had froze,

417
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:15,720
Speaker 1: you know.

418
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 2: But you know, a cabin is insulated in the winter

419
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 2: so that you can build a fire and keep it

420
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 2: warm inside. And then once once the fire goes out

421
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 2: and it turns cold in there, then that cabin insulates

422
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:31,879
Speaker 2: it from the spring, you know, and it started warming up.

423
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 2: So I don't think he'd been thawed for very long

424
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:43,679
Speaker 2: because he wasn't rotten, and he was just he was just.

425
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:45,560
Speaker 1: Just dead and his hair was slipping just a little

426
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:47,560
Speaker 1: bit on his forehead. And you said he was just

427
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 1: skin and bones, skin and bones. Yeah, And you picked

428
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:52,119
Speaker 1: him up and left them out on the tundra.

429
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:53,159
Speaker 3: Yeah.

430
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:55,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, we thought about trying to take him down to Circle,

431
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:58,520
Speaker 2: but it was that would have been a several day

432
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 2: endeavor in the side of the Yukon at that point,

433
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:07,400
Speaker 2: not long after breakup were just packed with ice. Breakups

434
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:09,879
Speaker 2: are different every year on the Yukon, you know, and

435
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:13,520
Speaker 2: sometimes they flow over the banks. Sometimes they just slush

436
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:18,280
Speaker 2: out and it's not a big deal. That particular breakup though,

437
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 2: had put ice packed onto the banks, and so it

438
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:28,640
Speaker 2: was difficult to actually get someplace off of the river

439
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 2: to park and walk into the woods or do other things.

440
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:38,120
Speaker 2: And so we just figured that it would put us

441
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 2: just in an uncomfortable position, not being able to feed

442
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 2: ourselves and things if we had gone down there. We

443
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 2: didn't have any money or anything, and so it was

444
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:50,040
Speaker 2: we just took him out in the woods and left.

445
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 1: Him and it never heard another thing about it, no, never.

446
00:26:56,200 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 2: And so after the last podcast where we talked about that,

447
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:05,159
Speaker 2: there was a fella from I got contacted by a

448
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:06,160
Speaker 2: couple of people.

449
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 1: Who might who had tips, who potentially had tips.

450
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 2: Well, so one one fella was a French Canadian and

451
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:16,159
Speaker 2: he wanted to know whether he was a Native or

452
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 2: a or a or a white man and if we

453
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 2: could tell, and he was he was a white guy.

454
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:29,400
Speaker 2: And and they said, well, you know, in in French Canada, uh,

455
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:33,119
Speaker 2: some people you know might have the name Juan Baptiste.

456
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 2: And we may have interpreted it, I mean, but she

457
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,359
Speaker 2: wrote it, so it was he was calling it John

458
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,679
Speaker 2: the Baptist, but well he wrote it on what he

459
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 2: wrote that note to Fred on the door and signed

460
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:49,400
Speaker 2: it John John the Baptist. Yeah, and he's got that note.

461
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 1: Now. I don't know, dude, I'd like to have that note.

462
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,919
Speaker 1: I don't think it's I bet it isn't around. I

463
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 1: don't know a bit to be hanging around the wall

464
00:27:57,600 --> 00:27:59,639
Speaker 1: here if I had it. Yeah.

465
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 2: So, anyway, he was looking through missing persons records in

466
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:13,359
Speaker 2: Canada based on our conversation, Yeah, okay, And I don't

467
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:17,399
Speaker 2: know whether he found him or not, but he contacted

468
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 2: me on that and we talked a little bit.

469
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 1: So when you told him that there was a white guy,

470
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 1: what did he.

471
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 2: Say, Well, he said, that's one of the one of

472
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:32,400
Speaker 2: the I guess pieces of information that he used to

473
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:33,680
Speaker 2: search the records.

474
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 1: But you haven't heard anything more about that. No, huh.

475
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:42,440
Speaker 1: That was the only kind of tip. Yeah. I don't

476
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 1: understand how a guy in nineteen seventy eight, seventy eight,

477
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 1: seventy nine, how there could be a person that vanished,

478
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 1: starves to death in the woods and not some effort

479
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 1: from his family or people to sort of like formally

480
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 1: be like, has anyone seen this guy?

481
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 2: Yeah?

482
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 1: I mean he must have burned all his bridges.

483
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:15,200
Speaker 2: Well that's that's possible, you know, his his whoever he

484
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 2: was traveling with, took off, I don't know, but that

485
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 2: could have been that guy's problem too, But.

486
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 1: I don't know. And no idea who the other dude

487
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 1: was that abandoned him, No, and he could have so.

488
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 2: So one of the interesting things is, you know, going

489
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 2: down to Yukon between Eagle and Circle, it's not it's

490
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,720
Speaker 2: not necessarily an easy matter to get to Circle, you know,

491
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:46,160
Speaker 2: and if they're doing a log raft, which is what

492
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 2: they had, that's even more tough, you know, to try

493
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:54,960
Speaker 2: to navigate different channels and you start getting into this

494
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 2: really braided region of the upper Yukon flats upstream from Circle,

495
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:03,120
Speaker 2: and it's way more interesting if you get downstream of it.

496
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 2: But uh, it's possible unless he had a map and

497
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 2: understood where he was that he could have gone right

498
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 2: past Circle as well.

499
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:13,680
Speaker 1: That guy.

500
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, and uh and not even known it perhaps, but uh,

501
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 2: because it's it's kind of on a on a it's

502
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 2: on a south leg of the river there, and there's

503
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 2: different islands and shallow places.

504
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 1: I wonder if that dude even lived.

505
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't know. We had no other

506
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 2: information on that at all.

507
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Although why that stuck with me so much? Man,

508
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 1: I was like kind of die and know about that guy?

509
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know.

510
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I'm over it now.

511
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 2: Yeah. I didn't really think about it very much.

512
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 1: You know, it was a temporary deal for me, but

513
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 1: it's all I can think about for a minute.

514
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 3: Yeah.

515
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know you sent me a story after we talked.

516
00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 1: I gave you a book yeah too, Yeah, because we

517
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 1: talked about Starving to Death, right, and that journal of

518
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 1: I talked.

519
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 2: I've talked about that book since. Yeah, there was a

520
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 2: guy journal those guys that starved to Death. Yeah, there

521
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 2: was a guy that wrote to me and said that

522
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 2: he had heard you talk about it and didn't know

523
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 2: what the what the book was and wanted to know

524
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 2: the title of it. So God I sent him information

525
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 2: on that. Yeah, tell people the name of the book. Well,

526
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 2: that was Death in the barn Lands. Yeah, and it

527
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 2: was about these three guys, uh, John Hornby and then

528
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 2: the two one of them was his nephew, I think

529
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 2: another maybe a friend, and they went out into the

530
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:40,600
Speaker 2: uh you know, to the to the east of Great

531
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 2: Slave Lake, over to the Thelon River trains into Hudson Bay.

532
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 1: I believe I had a hell of a time finding that.

533
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 1: I had a hell of time finding that on good Earth.

534
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 3: Yeah.

535
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a confusing tangle of water up there.

536
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 2: It is it is and uh and it's pretty flat

537
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 2: country and uh. And then there's these caribou that the

538
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:10,000
Speaker 2: barren ground cariboo that are moving around in that country,

539
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 2: but not always in the same place. And they were

540
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 2: unfortunate enough that they well there were caribou here here there,

541
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 2: and they caught a little bit of fer but it

542
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 2: wasn't enough to keep them, keep them all going, and

543
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 2: they they all ended up dying.

544
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 1: Yeah. And the one, the youngest one, keeps a meticulous journal.

545
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 1: It's chronicling his death. Extraordinary. He's the work. Yeah, you know.

546
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 2: And then the people that ended up finding the cabin

547
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 2: and the and the people there that had strived out,

548
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,720
Speaker 2: they found his his journal in the stove he had

549
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 2: he had put it in.

550
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:53,240
Speaker 1: There and left the note saying looking stove.

551
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that so that somebody was going to be

552
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 2: able to get it and know what what went on?

553
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:01,960
Speaker 1: Does man explorer there were talking about Hornby he had

554
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 1: found on one of his journeys traveling the Canadian Arctic.

555
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 1: He had found a stand of spruce that he felt

556
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 1: in that area was the northernmost stand of spruce, and

557
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 1: he realized, you could go into this, this is way

558
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 1: above tree line, go into the stand of spruce and

559
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 1: build a cabin and make a go of it in

560
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 1: the way far north. You know what he reminds me of.

561
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:32,480
Speaker 1: Later though, Hornby reminds me of Stocked and Rush, the

562
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 1: guy from the Titan submersible. Oh, because because he knew

563
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 1: what he was getting into, Like he knew what he

564
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 1: was doing. The other two didn't. He knew the risk,

565
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 1: he knew what he was getting into, He'd had close calls,

566
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:55,240
Speaker 1: he knew how dicey it was, and he like brings

567
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 1: other guys along who are sort of trusting in his expertise.

568
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 1: And then later it comes out, you know, like with

569
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 1: stock the Rush, Later it comes out. Stock the Rush

570
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 1: had almost like I wouldn't say, a death wish, but

571
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 1: like incredible hubris and not a death wish, but definitely

572
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 1: knew where it was headed and didn't care. And this

573
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 1: Hornby guy, I mean he basically offers these people up

574
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:25,359
Speaker 1: to the tundra. I mean, he serves them to the

575
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:28,400
Speaker 1: god of the tundra. He serves them on a platter.

576
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 1: I think he thought.

577
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 2: They were gonna do all right, but that it was

578
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 2: a hungry country and the caribou didn't come.

579
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 1: Yeah. The thing that the most upsetting part of that

580
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 1: story of starving to death like that is that they

581
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:52,759
Speaker 1: start eating hides right, Yeah, and for some reason, like

582
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:56,800
Speaker 1: a lot of hair, and their bowels get impacted by hair,

583
00:34:57,600 --> 00:34:59,720
Speaker 1: and so towards the end of three of these dudes

584
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:04,800
Speaker 1: are trying to give each other enemas, and they're trying

585
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:10,799
Speaker 1: to claw out of each other plugs of leather and

586
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:14,799
Speaker 1: hair and rigging up different ways to try to get

587
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 1: their colon or over the hell clear of hair. And

588
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:23,360
Speaker 1: the guys that find the bodies remark on this because

589
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 1: some of this excrement, some of this solidified excrement of

590
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 1: hair and hide, are littered around the cabin. Just a

591
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:36,240
Speaker 1: shitty way to go. Oh yeah, it was bad. Yeah,

592
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:38,759
Speaker 1: but that really brought to life reading that book, and

593
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 1: that's probably why he gave it to me. Reading that

594
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 1: book brought to life what that John the Baptist dude like,

595
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:50,640
Speaker 1: what his days were probably like, I think, so to

596
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 1: starve up in their Yeah, but there's a story you

597
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:58,000
Speaker 1: told you sent me a video clip and you're telling

598
00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 1: a story about getting a bear out in the river

599
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:06,440
Speaker 1: one time. Oh yeah, and you had mentioned the thing

600
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 1: that hadn't really occurred to me in it that but

601
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 1: but I've seen it, but I hadn't really thought about it.

602
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:18,920
Speaker 1: Like a deer floats, yeah, yeah, and a muslim float

603
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 1: even with a big set of antlers. But a bear

604
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:23,799
Speaker 1: don't float good, It doesn't float. Yeah. Do you mind

605
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 1: sharing like the sort of the implications of a bear,

606
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 1: like tell that story and the implications of a bear

607
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:31,560
Speaker 1: knoe floating. It's one of my favorite stories because they

608
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:33,319
Speaker 1: they sure swim pretty damn good.

609
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:36,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, they swim so so we used to sometimes find

610
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 2: them in the river, swimming from one side to the

611
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:43,879
Speaker 2: other and and and we'd follow them and and wait

612
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:47,719
Speaker 2: until they get out on the bank. And then sometimes,

613
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,279
Speaker 2: you know, sometimes they're running too hard when they get

614
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:51,280
Speaker 2: out and you don't get.

615
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:51,880
Speaker 1: A good shot.

616
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:54,839
Speaker 2: But most of the time you're able to cut them

617
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:57,560
Speaker 2: on the bank. But we knew that they didn't float

618
00:36:57,600 --> 00:36:59,920
Speaker 2: because there are several people that shot bears up on

619
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:01,960
Speaker 2: bluffs that come right down to the river, and the

620
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,399
Speaker 2: bear rolls down and into the river and they're gone.

621
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 2: They go away, and I mean they don't really, but

622
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:10,279
Speaker 2: they go away as far as.

623
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:10,920
Speaker 1: You were concerned.

624
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 2: So we knew that they that they that they sink,

625
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:17,280
Speaker 2: you know, and it may be that a cub would float.

626
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:17,920
Speaker 2: I don't know.

627
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 1: Well, you know part of why that there's air in

628
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:27,359
Speaker 1: the hair. I mean, you know this inservids that hair

629
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:31,479
Speaker 1: is kind of hollow. Yeah, imagine they got a hair, right,

630
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:35,160
Speaker 1: Bears got more of what we call fur, but it's

631
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:37,879
Speaker 1: more like guard guard hair. Yeah, So I guess that's

632
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 1: something to do with it.

633
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So so August is kind of a tough

634
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:45,800
Speaker 2: time to make a living out there. You know. The

635
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:48,439
Speaker 2: king salmon at that in that part of the river

636
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 2: come in July and it's just wonderful time. You know,

637
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:56,760
Speaker 2: you can sit in one place and and process process

638
00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 2: king salmon. And I mean not right now because they're

639
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 2: desperately low levels right now in the Yukon, But in

640
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:08,839
Speaker 2: those days we could fish and hang a gil neet

641
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 2: and process you know, five or six fish a day

642
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 2: and and and jar them up and dry them and

643
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 2: put them up for for later, as well as eat

644
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 2: wonderful food the whole time there. But August it comes

645
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 2: and there's no fish really. I mean, you can get pike,

646
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 2: or you can get some whitefish or a sheet fish

647
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:35,400
Speaker 2: or something, but but the salmon have gone through and

648
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:38,840
Speaker 2: and the fall chump salmon are not there yet, you know.

649
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:42,880
Speaker 2: And and so we would we would usually try to

650
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:46,600
Speaker 2: look for a bear because bears start getting getting pretty

651
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:51,919
Speaker 2: nice fat. And this guy, Seymour and I we both

652
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 2: fished the same place, Glen Creek Bluff there, and we

653
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 2: went down to the to the Candy. So we were

654
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 2: about fifty miles upstream from the Candic River where our

655
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:05,880
Speaker 2: fish camps were. And he and I took some dogs

656
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 2: and we went down to mouth of Candy looking for

657
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:12,880
Speaker 2: a bear. There's some good bluffs down there that you

658
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:17,320
Speaker 2: might find them on or sometimes just you know walking

659
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:21,320
Speaker 2: down through the you know, walking the river bank or something. Anyway,

660
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 2: we went down there, didn't find anything that we were

661
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 2: lying back up the river and we would which is

662
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:32,080
Speaker 2: you know, walking the bank and pulling the canoe. And

663
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:36,600
Speaker 2: during places where the bank is really nice, you know,

664
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 2: where you have the same kind of angle going into

665
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 2: the water, we'd.

666
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 1: Hook dogs up.

667
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:43,920
Speaker 2: We'd took a couple of dogs up and they would

668
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 2: pull the canoe up where you can sit in the

669
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:50,279
Speaker 2: in the canoe and ride during some of that. And

670
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 2: so we were we were in that sort of a

671
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 2: situation going up river on a big inside of the bend,

672
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:01,359
Speaker 2: so we could see the shoreline only for a couple

673
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 2: hundred yards and then it kind of disappeared around the

674
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:09,200
Speaker 2: corner to us right and at one point we saw

675
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:15,000
Speaker 2: this bear that had taken off somewhere upstream of us

676
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:18,960
Speaker 2: and had been swimming out and he got into our

677
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:21,880
Speaker 2: view even though it was around he was he was

678
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:25,239
Speaker 2: probably one hundred and fifty two hundred yards out into

679
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:27,800
Speaker 2: the river, and the river at that point was about

680
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:34,239
Speaker 2: five hundred yards we estimated across. So we pull We

681
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:36,239
Speaker 2: pull over because we're going to try to get him

682
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:39,280
Speaker 2: when he comes out the other side on the bank,

683
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 2: and we unclipped the dogs because we're going to have

684
00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:44,799
Speaker 2: to go. We're gonna let him get half or three

685
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 2: quarters of the way over a nimble paddle over there.

686
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:50,239
Speaker 2: That was how we were figuring to do it.

687
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:53,720
Speaker 1: Why not to take off after him right away, well,

688
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:56,319
Speaker 1: because you'd spook him back to his own bank. You

689
00:40:56,400 --> 00:41:01,040
Speaker 1: never know, yeah, where it goes, And so usually we would.

690
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:05,960
Speaker 2: Try to follow him and at some point and and

691
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:07,960
Speaker 2: once they're close to that bank, they're going to go

692
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:13,120
Speaker 2: to that bank. They probably go anyway. But but we

693
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:16,480
Speaker 2: also had dogs. We had five dogs that were now

694
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:20,160
Speaker 2: loose on the bank, and they hadn't seen the bear

695
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:25,960
Speaker 2: at that point, and uh, we're trying to we're trying

696
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:29,680
Speaker 2: to get their attention looking downstream a little bit so

697
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:33,880
Speaker 2: that they didn't see the bear, because because dogs swim

698
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 2: a lot faster than bears, and so we didn't want

699
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 2: them getting out there and messing the situation up.

700
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 3: Uh.

701
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:46,200
Speaker 2: But but we did have this one dog that he

702
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:49,960
Speaker 2: would he would look at jets going by in the

703
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:54,240
Speaker 2: sky and so he had really good distance vision and

704
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:58,759
Speaker 2: and he spotted it. And they they they really loved

705
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:01,879
Speaker 2: to swim after beavers, and I think he probably thought

706
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:04,920
Speaker 2: it was a beaver, but it didn't matter that it

707
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:08,040
Speaker 2: was a bear. And the dogs all ran up the

708
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:12,400
Speaker 2: bank to where they were, you know, straight in from

709
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:15,600
Speaker 2: where the bear was swimming, and they start barking at him,

710
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 2: and he turns around and looks back at them and

711
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 2: decides he's not going there. Because you know, I think

712
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:26,319
Speaker 2: all the animals living out in the woods think of

713
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:29,600
Speaker 2: the dogs as wolves. I don't think they I don't

714
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 2: think they know what they are other than that they're

715
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:34,479
Speaker 2: just like wolves to them.

716
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:39,200
Speaker 1: And so that bear turned and kept going in the

717
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:39,880
Speaker 1: same direction.

718
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:42,520
Speaker 2: Well, the jogs all jumped into the river and started

719
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 2: swimming after it. And we're sitting there, Seymour and I

720
00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 2: are sitting there going this is this is not good.

721
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:50,719
Speaker 2: They're going to catch him out in the river. We

722
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:54,000
Speaker 2: have no idea what's going to happen then, but it's

723
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 2: possible that they could drown him and and you know,

724
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:01,760
Speaker 2: just by climbing on him and biting him and things,

725
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:04,600
Speaker 2: and then he would go away because he'd sink. Or

726
00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:08,239
Speaker 2: it may be that he could drown the dogs just

727
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 2: by turning around and grabbing them. And we didn't know

728
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:16,360
Speaker 2: how big a bear it was, and so we started

729
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:18,160
Speaker 2: thinking about how do we deal with this? You know,

730
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:21,200
Speaker 2: there's no wake we can go and catch all these

731
00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:24,120
Speaker 2: five dogs and haul him into a canoe out in

732
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:28,319
Speaker 2: the river and not tip over. And so Seymour, who

733
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:31,279
Speaker 2: was he was, I don't know, he's close to ten

734
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:35,879
Speaker 2: years older than me, right, And so he says, here's

735
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:38,520
Speaker 2: what we'll do, Randy, and I'm just like twenty at

736
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:43,640
Speaker 2: the time and maybe twenty one. Hold Seymour about ten

737
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:44,400
Speaker 2: years older. OK.

738
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, so he says here he's the leader. Yeah.

739
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:50,360
Speaker 2: So he had he had brought a twenty two along

740
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:52,759
Speaker 2: on this trip down to the candy because we were

741
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:55,799
Speaker 2: shooting squirrels to feed the dogs and things, and so

742
00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:59,359
Speaker 2: I had the big gun, the two forty three. And

743
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 2: so he says, you get in the front, we'll beat

744
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:05,280
Speaker 2: the dogs to the bear. You pop him right before

745
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 2: we come upon him, and then grab him. That was

746
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 2: that was his solution to this thing.

747
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:11,239
Speaker 1: And so.

748
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:16,040
Speaker 2: Being just a bit younger than him, I like, yeah,

749
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 2: I think that's I think that's how we need to

750
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:20,920
Speaker 2: deal with this. So he and I took off and

751
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:25,719
Speaker 2: we beat the dogs by about two canoe lanes. We

752
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:28,440
Speaker 2: beat him to the to the bear, and I popped

753
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 2: him and grabbed him. And he's a summer bear, you know,

754
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:33,640
Speaker 2: he still had he didn't have a lot of fur,

755
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:36,520
Speaker 2: but enough that I could grab him right above the tail.

756
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:41,960
Speaker 2: And and of course we're we're really moving with the canoe,

757
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:44,720
Speaker 2: and so it almost drugged me out of the canoe

758
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:48,040
Speaker 2: on the backside, and Seymour is there just laughing in

759
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:50,239
Speaker 2: the back of the boat. The bear is, you know,

760
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:55,200
Speaker 2: nerves are still active, and he's kicking. And then the

761
00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:58,040
Speaker 2: dogs caught up with us, and they grab a hold

762
00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:01,400
Speaker 2: of him and shake, you know, and I'm had this

763
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:04,520
Speaker 2: paddle and I'm swatting at him trying to drive him

764
00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:06,520
Speaker 2: away so they don't pull him out of my hands

765
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:12,200
Speaker 2: because then we lose him. And and so we tried

766
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:14,520
Speaker 2: Seymour and I. After we got the dogs to leave

767
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:17,760
Speaker 2: us be a little bit, we tried hauling the bear

768
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:22,160
Speaker 2: into the canoe, but he was too big and and

769
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:25,360
Speaker 2: you know, it's a luminum canoe, eighteen foot luminium canoe

770
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:28,799
Speaker 2: that we were using there. But we didn't think we

771
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:31,120
Speaker 2: could bring him in without swamping the boat. So we

772
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:35,080
Speaker 2: tied him onto the side and paddled. I think we

773
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:38,000
Speaker 2: lost about a mile, you know, getting him back to shore.

774
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:40,680
Speaker 2: But it was a it was a nice, big kind

775
00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 2: a two hundred and fifty pound oh yeah, cinnamon face bear,

776
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:50,320
Speaker 2: huh and nice and fat. You know, he wasn't super

777
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:53,239
Speaker 2: fat like going into hibernation, but he was fat enough

778
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:54,360
Speaker 2: to make it really good eating.

779
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:58,080
Speaker 1: So in those days when you're living off the land

780
00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 1: like that, yeah, what do you then do it? Like

781
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:02,880
Speaker 1: walk me through how you handle the bear, Like, what

782
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:05,520
Speaker 1: all do you take from the bear?

783
00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:06,480
Speaker 2: Everything?

784
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, walk me through it. Okay, So pulled him up.

785
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:15,719
Speaker 2: We cut around under the feet and cut down across

786
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:18,440
Speaker 2: and then from the anus all the way up to

787
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:23,200
Speaker 2: the chin and skinned him out. And and we we

788
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:27,279
Speaker 2: usually will skin half back and take an arm off,

789
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:30,160
Speaker 2: you know, a front leg and then a back leg,

790
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:36,160
Speaker 2: cut open the guts, pull the guts out and then

791
00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:39,800
Speaker 2: turn them over and skin the other half, and and

792
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:44,360
Speaker 2: and take it into quarters and plus your ribs and

793
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:49,000
Speaker 2: the head, pelvis, all of it, and the guts as well.

794
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:52,080
Speaker 2: Because the dogs eat anything. We don't Yeah what what

795
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:54,440
Speaker 2: what aut of those guts? Will those dogs eat everything?

796
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:56,800
Speaker 2: Do you boil that so they don't get trick nosis?

797
00:46:56,880 --> 00:46:58,440
Speaker 2: Or the dog is he's going to get it anyways,

798
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 2: I'm sure I don't remember boiling that.

799
00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:04,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think they would even they probably all

800
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:05,879
Speaker 1: have it. It doesn't affect them. Yeah.

801
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:09,080
Speaker 2: Well I don't know that they have trichinosis, but there's.

802
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:11,480
Speaker 1: No way they don't. All this stuff they're eating.

803
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:13,799
Speaker 2: I don't think so. I never heard of it.

804
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:17,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, all the bears have it, not all, but I mean.

805
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:21,520
Speaker 2: I think they're there, they have the capacity, they have it.

806
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:24,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, well they're like so, just as a point of reference,

807
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:32,480
Speaker 1: this state used to take samples and in the northwest

808
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:34,919
Speaker 1: corner of the state where they were taking samples, one

809
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:42,440
Speaker 1: hundred percent of bears six years old and over were positive. Uh, well,

810
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:44,880
Speaker 1: you have more information than I do on that. I

811
00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:47,200
Speaker 1: just think it doesn't It doesn't. It doesn't affect them.

812
00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:48,799
Speaker 1: I mean they might they might not feel good for

813
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:50,560
Speaker 1: two days or something, but they probably have it their

814
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:51,040
Speaker 1: whole life.

815
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:54,000
Speaker 2: And you know, it'd be interesting to know the the

816
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:55,920
Speaker 2: pathology of that in Alaska.

817
00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:57,759
Speaker 1: But I know that that.

818
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:03,560
Speaker 2: Everybody advises is cooking them because they're potential for trick

819
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:08,360
Speaker 2: and nosis. But I've never heard or red on the

820
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 2: details of that.

821
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:12,719
Speaker 1: I got it from a bear in Alaska. Well, but

822
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:14,600
Speaker 1: I'll just get I'm just saying, I bet you if

823
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:16,680
Speaker 1: you test it, if you pull the tissue sample from

824
00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:20,120
Speaker 1: those dogs, it's possible that it's got the system. There's

825
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:22,279
Speaker 1: no way it doesn't. Yeah, because they're just eating whatever

826
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:24,680
Speaker 1: they find out in the woods. They do anyhow, like

827
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:28,040
Speaker 1: what like out of the bear's innards, what do you

828
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:29,000
Speaker 1: guys want to eat?

829
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:31,400
Speaker 2: And what do the dogs eat, we would We would

830
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:36,120
Speaker 2: usually take the heart, some of the liver, the kidney's

831
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:39,399
Speaker 2: and that would be what we would eat. And and

832
00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:45,520
Speaker 2: after I had that run in with that grizzly liver,

833
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:50,280
Speaker 2: I think the vitamin A poisoning with it, I wasn't.

834
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:54,800
Speaker 2: I didn't eat any any liver after that from the bears.

835
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:58,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I don't eat bear innards, man. Yeah,

836
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:00,319
Speaker 1: I eat the meat, ate the fat, by don't eat

837
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:01,080
Speaker 1: the enterns out of them.

838
00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:01,359
Speaker 2: Yeah.

839
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:03,960
Speaker 1: I can't explain why. It's like a personal I don't

840
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:05,600
Speaker 1: know if it counts as a taboo when it's you,

841
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:09,360
Speaker 1: it's a personal taboo, dude, I don't know.

842
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 2: We we did, and uh, and that was that was

843
00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 2: actually after little John and I had had gotten that

844
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:24,520
Speaker 2: vitamin A poison off of that grizzly So so undoubtedly

845
00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:28,040
Speaker 2: I did not eat that liver. But but the dogs do.

846
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:33,799
Speaker 2: They think it's great and don't seem to be impacted

847
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:38,680
Speaker 2: by it. And and so this is August though, right,

848
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:42,120
Speaker 2: so it's uh, we don't have a freezer or you know.

849
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:43,920
Speaker 1: That's what I'm curious about. Yeah, I mean.

850
00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:47,920
Speaker 2: Our freezer was broken because it doesn't come on until October.

851
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:49,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, you got like meat. Yeah, you got like meat,

852
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:52,799
Speaker 1: bees and flies and yeah it's hot during the day.

853
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:53,400
Speaker 3: Yeah.

854
00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:55,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, So you hang it up and it gets dry

855
00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:59,040
Speaker 2: on the outside. Bear bear meat doesn't keep for very long,

856
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:01,920
Speaker 2: and we just do we just eat it and it

857
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:03,000
Speaker 2: starts turning bad.

858
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:03,960
Speaker 3: That dogs get it.

859
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:06,640
Speaker 1: So you couldn't. You wouldn't with the bear meat. You're

860
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:09,080
Speaker 1: not trying to you can't. You're not trying to smoke

861
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:10,960
Speaker 1: it or air dry it. You're just eating it.

862
00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:11,760
Speaker 3: Yeah.

863
00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:14,480
Speaker 1: Yeah. And then and then how do you handle the fat?

864
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:15,560
Speaker 1: You render it out?

865
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:18,480
Speaker 2: No, I just leave it on the meat and eat

866
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:22,160
Speaker 2: it with the meat. Okay, Yeah, because bears, bears, you know,

867
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:26,720
Speaker 2: they have it marbled. It's marble not not with moose.

868
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:31,680
Speaker 2: Moose isn't you know, well the ribs brisket, but but

869
00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:33,960
Speaker 2: the you know, like the back legs or the or

870
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:37,880
Speaker 2: the shoulders on a moose is not marbled in fat.

871
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:40,200
Speaker 2: It's got a layer on the outside. You get a

872
00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:43,080
Speaker 2: fat one. Yeah, but uh, and then it's got the

873
00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:46,880
Speaker 2: intestinal fat. Bears have fat kind of marbled through the

874
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:49,080
Speaker 2: through the meat and uh.

875
00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:52,680
Speaker 1: Which is part of why that meat doesn't freeze super good. Right,

876
00:50:53,239 --> 00:50:59,400
Speaker 1: it goes rantsid a little bit, like the fat goes bad. Yeah. Yeah,

877
00:50:59,719 --> 00:51:01,759
Speaker 1: so if you've got a bear in August, you're not

878
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:05,160
Speaker 1: doing anything to save No, you're not saving bear lard.

879
00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:07,160
Speaker 2: It's just food until it goes bad.

880
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:11,280
Speaker 1: But but why not, like at that time, why would

881
00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:13,960
Speaker 1: you not render it and save jars of it or

882
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:19,440
Speaker 1: save bags of it. It'll go rantid because you can't refrigerate,

883
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:20,719
Speaker 1: because it's not refrigerated or for all.

884
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:23,719
Speaker 2: It's really hard to jar it in a ball jar.

885
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:26,520
Speaker 2: I know, we've tried it, we've done it, but it

886
00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:31,720
Speaker 2: gets in the seal and it doesn't it doesn't seal

887
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:35,560
Speaker 2: really good. Some people may have had other other experiences

888
00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:38,840
Speaker 2: with it. But at that time, your jarring salmon. Yeah,

889
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:41,880
Speaker 2: so you know about the mechanics of jarring. Yeah, but

890
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:45,560
Speaker 2: you're not jarring bear meat. No, just some people do.

891
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:49,799
Speaker 2: Some people do, but usually it's fall in a jar

892
00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:52,640
Speaker 2: it and then it's frozen and they eat it later

893
00:51:52,680 --> 00:51:57,200
Speaker 2: in the winter. Got it, got it, But it's it's

894
00:51:57,239 --> 00:52:01,360
Speaker 2: a hard thing with a with a really oil a

895
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:04,760
Speaker 2: piece of meat to jar it and have that seal

896
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:06,800
Speaker 2: work for a ball.

897
00:52:06,680 --> 00:52:08,320
Speaker 1: Jar huh okay.

898
00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:11,200
Speaker 2: And then I didn't I didn't like jarred meat. As

899
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:14,640
Speaker 2: much as I mean jarred fish is great meat, I'd

900
00:52:14,719 --> 00:52:17,440
Speaker 2: rather just eat it straight, okay.

901
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:20,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, But you're also trying to account for I mean,

902
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:22,359
Speaker 1: you're trying to find three hundred and sixty five days

903
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:25,600
Speaker 1: for the food. So in the summer months you eat

904
00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:28,200
Speaker 1: fresh meat, yeah, and then once thing's freeze, you just

905
00:52:28,239 --> 00:52:29,040
Speaker 1: eat frozen meat.

906
00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:30,520
Speaker 3: Yeah.

907
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:31,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, because.

908
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:36,320
Speaker 2: You know you can't keep you can't keep a big

909
00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:39,160
Speaker 2: piece of meat a moose, you know, shooting them in August.

910
00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:41,759
Speaker 2: You can't do it. You know it's gonna go bad

911
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:45,040
Speaker 2: before before you've finished eating it.

912
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:47,000
Speaker 1: What was the date at which you'd want to kill

913
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:47,520
Speaker 1: a moose? Then?

914
00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:51,719
Speaker 2: Anytime, you know, around fifth to tenth of September.

915
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:53,680
Speaker 1: At that point you could keep it.

916
00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:57,719
Speaker 2: You can keep it right into freeze. Okay, yeah, but

917
00:52:58,040 --> 00:53:00,200
Speaker 2: you gotta you gotta be careful. You know, if you

918
00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:03,719
Speaker 2: got those cuts that you know where there's two surfaces

919
00:53:03,719 --> 00:53:06,640
Speaker 2: that flop back on each other, those are gonna those

920
00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:08,759
Speaker 2: would go bad over that period of time.

921
00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:11,600
Speaker 1: So there there's a process after tell me what that means. Well,

922
00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:13,399
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go back to the bear. One last question

923
00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:15,200
Speaker 1: on the bear. Yeah, so I understand the meat and

924
00:53:15,239 --> 00:53:18,359
Speaker 1: fat and the guts. Yeah, at that point in time,

925
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:21,880
Speaker 1: were you keeping the hide or selling the hide? Or

926
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:24,879
Speaker 1: it's useless because it's August, Like, how would you view

927
00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:27,160
Speaker 1: the bear hide? What? What good use that would you

928
00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:28,600
Speaker 1: put that to? If anything?

929
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:32,640
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, we'd we'd keep them and it would be

930
00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:37,719
Speaker 2: stretching out on a frame and fleshing it and scraping

931
00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:42,719
Speaker 2: the oil off sometimes, you know, really fat bear. That's

932
00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:45,839
Speaker 2: pretty hard to do, but but you can do it,

933
00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:48,959
Speaker 2: you know with a scraper yep, and clean it off

934
00:53:49,640 --> 00:53:54,880
Speaker 2: and dry it as a rug, a seat cushion, a

935
00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:55,840
Speaker 2: lot of different things.

936
00:53:55,960 --> 00:53:57,920
Speaker 1: You wouldn't sew any garments out of that stuff.

937
00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:03,799
Speaker 2: I didn't. There were people that did. But it you know,

938
00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:06,160
Speaker 2: if you like put it on the top of a muckluck,

939
00:54:06,239 --> 00:54:11,160
Speaker 2: it'll get snow packed into it, so it's not you know,

940
00:54:11,200 --> 00:54:15,879
Speaker 2: like a beaver is almost waterproof, you know, the beaver fur.

941
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:19,799
Speaker 2: And that was that was a really good thing for

942
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:22,520
Speaker 2: like the top of a muckluck or mittens. But it

943
00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:26,920
Speaker 2: would never get snowballs or ice balls for a minute,

944
00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:31,400
Speaker 2: but bearford does, Okay, So it was it wasn't a

945
00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:34,600
Speaker 2: desirable piece of clothing for most people.

946
00:54:34,719 --> 00:54:36,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you know, I want to hit you with

947
00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:38,880
Speaker 1: one that I was reading. It's not from your area,

948
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:40,640
Speaker 1: but I wonder if you ever heard of this I'm reading.

949
00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:47,080
Speaker 1: There's this book that's it called, Oh the land Breakers.

950
00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:47,560
Speaker 1: You ever hear that?

951
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:48,600
Speaker 2: I never heard it?

952
00:54:48,640 --> 00:54:50,239
Speaker 1: Two that was obsessed with this book for a while,

953
00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:52,480
Speaker 1: The land Breakers. I sent it to my buddy Bobby Doug.

954
00:54:52,640 --> 00:54:57,239
Speaker 1: He loved it too. It's set in the seventeen seventies.

955
00:54:57,400 --> 00:55:01,440
Speaker 1: It's just about the first families moving into the sorry

956
00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:05,680
Speaker 1: set in the seventeen eighties. Yeah, early American. It's a novel,

957
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:07,880
Speaker 1: but it's like very very well done. It's about the

958
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:11,719
Speaker 1: first families moving up into the mountains in Appalachia and

959
00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:14,319
Speaker 1: their land breakers because they're clearing the ground to grow corn.

960
00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:20,799
Speaker 1: In this book they talk about that you know, you

961
00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:24,240
Speaker 1: know a groundhog. It's like a ground squirrel, close relative

962
00:55:24,239 --> 00:55:27,759
Speaker 1: of a marmot, right, a groundhog in this book talks it.

963
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:35,200
Speaker 1: That's the best raw hide for bootlaces. Oh, interesting, which

964
00:55:35,200 --> 00:55:37,480
Speaker 1: I'm gonna make some. My kid got one the other day,

965
00:55:37,520 --> 00:55:39,800
Speaker 1: but it was just a juvenile so I didn't do

966
00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:42,319
Speaker 1: it yet. I'm gonna make my own raw hide bootlaces

967
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:45,719
Speaker 1: from a groundhog. But if you think about that, man,

968
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:49,319
Speaker 1: like think about a squirrel's hide, Like you take a

969
00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:53,520
Speaker 1: rabbit hide, you can just with your hands tear it off. Dude,

970
00:55:53,600 --> 00:55:57,359
Speaker 1: squirrels hard to get through. Doesn't it make sense that

971
00:55:57,360 --> 00:56:01,640
Speaker 1: that would be like a phenomenal raw high strip tough?

972
00:56:03,640 --> 00:56:06,560
Speaker 2: How do you get the fur off or does it matter?

973
00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:09,319
Speaker 1: I don't know, I'll figure that out. Yeah, I'm gonna

974
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:11,200
Speaker 1: probably just soak it for a while and then scrape

975
00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:14,480
Speaker 1: the fur off. I don't know, I haven't I haven't

976
00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:18,319
Speaker 1: done it yet. Fixing to though, Yeah, tough ass boot

977
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:21,040
Speaker 1: laces made out of groundhog huh, Well this would be

978
00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:23,640
Speaker 1: a marmot. But either way, yeah, yeah, around here they

979
00:56:23,719 --> 00:56:26,719
Speaker 1: call rock chucks. Yeah, but you never had any exposure

980
00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:28,560
Speaker 1: to that because you had dealt with so many leathers.

981
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:30,759
Speaker 1: You guys didn't have like a thing of making like

982
00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:32,560
Speaker 1: raw hide from marmots or anything.

983
00:56:33,280 --> 00:56:37,479
Speaker 2: No, there were marmots in the mountains on the south

984
00:56:37,560 --> 00:56:40,919
Speaker 2: side of the of the Yukon up there. I never

985
00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:44,480
Speaker 2: saw them over in the in the oglevies, never where

986
00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:48,359
Speaker 2: you hung out, never where I hung out. Yeah, So

987
00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:49,240
Speaker 2: tell me about moose.

988
00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:52,799
Speaker 1: How you handle moose? Because this now we're into September.

989
00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:57,439
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, so so moose always we skin back one

990
00:56:57,480 --> 00:57:01,839
Speaker 2: half and take a shoulder off. And uh, I never

991
00:57:02,040 --> 00:57:04,520
Speaker 2: got into the game bags. I think we mentioned this

992
00:57:04,600 --> 00:57:08,319
Speaker 2: a little bit previously, but it didn't matter because there's

993
00:57:08,360 --> 00:57:12,000
Speaker 2: going to be a crust on it. And and when

994
00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:15,680
Speaker 2: I've taken game bags off of meat that's you know,

995
00:57:15,800 --> 00:57:19,000
Speaker 2: sat in a boat or something for a few days.

996
00:57:19,040 --> 00:57:23,000
Speaker 1: It's pretty. It doesn't let it dry out. And so

997
00:57:23,280 --> 00:57:26,400
Speaker 1: if you're dealing with water and stuff, it's just I'm

998
00:57:26,440 --> 00:57:30,240
Speaker 1: with you, because it like it makes it just holds

999
00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:32,160
Speaker 1: moisture in a way. Yeah, if you can hang it

1000
00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:33,640
Speaker 1: up in the air, it was nice. Bots you don't

1001
00:57:33,640 --> 00:57:35,080
Speaker 1: get you don't get fly eggs on it.

1002
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:38,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, which didn't bother me at all, because flies, you know,

1003
00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:40,680
Speaker 2: once you got a crust on it, they don't bother it,

1004
00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:44,120
Speaker 2: but they will go and lay eggs if you have,

1005
00:57:44,640 --> 00:57:47,280
Speaker 2: say you make a couple of cuts on the you know,

1006
00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:49,720
Speaker 2: the bottom of the back leg, you know, between it

1007
00:57:49,800 --> 00:57:52,480
Speaker 2: and the and the pelvis bone, you know, and you

1008
00:57:52,560 --> 00:57:54,760
Speaker 2: might have a couple of different cuts that when you

1009
00:57:54,840 --> 00:57:58,720
Speaker 2: hang it up those two there's a cut in there

1010
00:57:58,760 --> 00:58:01,520
Speaker 2: where the two pieces as a meat flop over and touch.

1011
00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:04,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, when you say that, do you mean that you

1012
00:58:04,720 --> 00:58:07,160
Speaker 1: take it like an intact muscle, But you're saying you

1013
00:58:07,720 --> 00:58:11,440
Speaker 1: inadvertently slice it. So now you've sliced it open and

1014
00:58:11,480 --> 00:58:14,640
Speaker 1: the two pieces of meat are touching. That's going to rot.

1015
00:58:15,040 --> 00:58:15,960
Speaker 1: Why do you think that is?

1016
00:58:16,360 --> 00:58:20,840
Speaker 2: Because the bacterial grow it doesn't dry out. That's exactly why.

1017
00:58:20,880 --> 00:58:24,640
Speaker 2: It because it's an exposed surface that won't dry. It's

1018
00:58:24,640 --> 00:58:30,160
Speaker 2: an exposed surface. Yeah, it's been inoculated with bacteria and

1019
00:58:30,200 --> 00:58:33,080
Speaker 2: it stays wet. See, the bacteria aren't going to grow

1020
00:58:33,120 --> 00:58:35,960
Speaker 2: if it's dry. And so you get this moose and

1021
00:58:36,440 --> 00:58:38,880
Speaker 2: you hang it up and over the next few days,

1022
00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:41,200
Speaker 2: you know, you work at it, you pick at it.

1023
00:58:41,240 --> 00:58:43,960
Speaker 2: You know, the bottom of the of the of the

1024
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:49,120
Speaker 2: back leg and the neck, you know, the backstraps, anywhere

1025
00:58:49,400 --> 00:58:54,320
Speaker 2: where there's you know, a cut that exists there that

1026
00:58:54,400 --> 00:58:55,040
Speaker 2: doesn't dry.

1027
00:58:55,160 --> 00:58:57,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is something I've never thought about or heard. Man.

1028
00:58:58,000 --> 00:59:01,200
Speaker 2: Well, so it allowed us to moose in the beginning

1029
00:59:01,240 --> 00:59:04,160
Speaker 2: of September and have it make it in to freeze

1030
00:59:04,280 --> 00:59:04,959
Speaker 2: because you just.

1031
00:59:04,920 --> 00:59:08,680
Speaker 1: Keep your you're letting the crust form, making sure there's

1032
00:59:08,680 --> 00:59:11,640
Speaker 1: no spots to hold any moisture exactly, and then it

1033
00:59:11,640 --> 00:59:13,800
Speaker 1: it's and then you can hang it and you're just

1034
00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:18,520
Speaker 1: basically hanging it. It dries and then eventually.

1035
00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:21,840
Speaker 2: Well solid and so at that time, you know, of

1036
00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:25,520
Speaker 2: the of the year, you tend to get cooler temperatures

1037
00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:29,920
Speaker 2: at night and uh, and so it's and then as

1038
00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:34,320
Speaker 2: the moisture from that ham or the shoulder works its

1039
00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:37,560
Speaker 2: way out to the crust and evaporates off, it's. Uh,

1040
00:59:37,600 --> 00:59:41,120
Speaker 2: it's gonna cool that way as well, like evaporative cooling.

1041
00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:46,200
Speaker 1: Yeah. Are you leaving harvesting the fat off it or

1042
00:59:46,320 --> 00:59:49,280
Speaker 1: leaving all the fat on it? I take the fat

1043
00:59:49,360 --> 00:59:50,880
Speaker 1: off okay, yeah, and you.

1044
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:56,680
Speaker 2: Handle so the ribs, the ribs and the brisket that's

1045
00:59:56,680 --> 00:59:59,040
Speaker 2: hard to take the fat off of, so that stays.

1046
00:59:59,120 --> 01:00:01,480
Speaker 2: But those are the uh, those are you know, some

1047
01:00:01,560 --> 01:00:06,160
Speaker 2: of the things you might eat first, okay, right, And

1048
01:00:06,440 --> 01:00:09,680
Speaker 2: it's got all those layers of fat in it. Yeah. Yeah.

1049
01:00:09,960 --> 01:00:14,840
Speaker 2: And so like the belly fat, you know, the inside fat. Yeah,

1050
01:00:14,920 --> 01:00:17,720
Speaker 2: I hang that too, so it gets dry and it'll

1051
01:00:17,800 --> 01:00:22,560
Speaker 2: dry fast. So you know, you get the kidney fat

1052
01:00:22,800 --> 01:00:26,520
Speaker 2: and you hang it over a pole and and you

1053
01:00:26,520 --> 01:00:29,000
Speaker 2: you shift it every every once in a while. You know,

1054
01:00:29,040 --> 01:00:32,479
Speaker 2: every couple of days you move it, and of course

1055
01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:34,560
Speaker 2: you got to protect it from gray jay's because they'll

1056
01:00:34,640 --> 01:00:37,400
Speaker 2: come in and oh yeah man and damage it pretty bad.

1057
01:00:37,840 --> 01:00:41,360
Speaker 2: But but I would hang uh little gill nets, little

1058
01:00:41,400 --> 01:00:45,120
Speaker 2: two inch stretch mesh gill nets around the meat to

1059
01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:46,280
Speaker 2: keep the gray j's off.

1060
01:00:46,800 --> 01:00:47,240
Speaker 1: Got it?

1061
01:00:48,080 --> 01:00:52,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a process. But but then you

1062
01:00:52,560 --> 01:00:56,080
Speaker 2: got this wonderful piece of meat. And as you go

1063
01:00:56,160 --> 01:00:56,480
Speaker 2: into the.

1064
01:00:56,480 --> 01:01:00,320
Speaker 1: Winter, if you let's say you're you got to cabin

1065
01:01:00,360 --> 01:01:03,160
Speaker 1: where you know you're gonna spend your winter. Yeah, and

1066
01:01:03,240 --> 01:01:05,440
Speaker 1: you're mostly doing stuff off at that time of year,

1067
01:01:05,480 --> 01:01:06,760
Speaker 1: you're operating out of your canoe.

1068
01:01:06,880 --> 01:01:07,320
Speaker 2: That's right.

1069
01:01:08,360 --> 01:01:11,600
Speaker 1: Are you moving that carcass. You're trying to move that

1070
01:01:11,640 --> 01:01:14,360
Speaker 1: carcass first back to your cabin. Yeah, and this work

1071
01:01:14,440 --> 01:01:15,640
Speaker 1: is happening at the cabin.

1072
01:01:16,000 --> 01:01:21,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. Not always, but that's that's what you

1073
01:01:21,960 --> 01:01:23,000
Speaker 2: that's what you try to do.

1074
01:01:23,120 --> 01:01:25,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, ideally it's back at the cabin.

1075
01:01:25,160 --> 01:01:25,480
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1076
01:01:25,520 --> 01:01:28,280
Speaker 1: And then how are you protected? How do you safeguard?

1077
01:01:28,520 --> 01:01:30,600
Speaker 1: So if if we go through this drying process and

1078
01:01:30,640 --> 01:01:32,360
Speaker 1: that what date does it at? What date would you

1079
01:01:32,360 --> 01:01:34,320
Speaker 1: say it's gonna freeze roughly.

1080
01:01:36,560 --> 01:01:39,600
Speaker 2: The end of September beginning of October. That's when it

1081
01:01:39,680 --> 01:01:43,840
Speaker 2: used to up there. We've had some we've had some

1082
01:01:43,960 --> 01:01:47,520
Speaker 2: years where it doesn't freeze till mid October lately though,

1083
01:01:47,640 --> 01:01:50,640
Speaker 2: So it's it's a different environment right now than it was.

1084
01:01:50,920 --> 01:01:53,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, and at that point, the only thing you got

1085
01:01:53,680 --> 01:01:57,560
Speaker 1: to worry about, uh once bears are down underground, the

1086
01:01:57,560 --> 01:02:00,640
Speaker 1: one you got worry about is like wolverine getting at it,

1087
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:03,920
Speaker 1: whatever kind of you know, whatever things chewing it up

1088
01:02:04,520 --> 01:02:07,720
Speaker 1: odds and ends. How do you secure it?

1089
01:02:10,160 --> 01:02:15,080
Speaker 2: You know, I really haven't had any trouble with a

1090
01:02:15,160 --> 01:02:21,560
Speaker 2: moose once it freezes, you know, we're we're there. I

1091
01:02:21,760 --> 01:02:24,840
Speaker 2: just have never had a wolverine. Usually I would, I

1092
01:02:24,880 --> 01:02:28,040
Speaker 2: would put some sort of a trap there for wolverines,

1093
01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:30,720
Speaker 2: but they're not gonna They're not going to be able

1094
01:02:30,760 --> 01:02:34,160
Speaker 2: to deal with a moose, you know, they could. I

1095
01:02:34,200 --> 01:02:37,360
Speaker 2: always hung it high enough so that my dogs couldn't

1096
01:02:37,360 --> 01:02:40,360
Speaker 2: reach it. I see, you know, at some point if

1097
01:02:40,360 --> 01:02:43,960
Speaker 2: we were traveling or something, and uh and that and

1098
01:02:44,040 --> 01:02:46,880
Speaker 2: the wolves they never bothered it. I never had them

1099
01:02:46,880 --> 01:02:52,040
Speaker 2: bother anything of mine, and uh so, so just hung.

1100
01:02:51,880 --> 01:02:53,720
Speaker 1: It clear of a wolverine where he can't jump up,

1101
01:02:53,760 --> 01:02:55,080
Speaker 1: and you can't climb up and get it.

1102
01:02:55,160 --> 01:02:59,880
Speaker 2: Well, the wolverine can. But you know, they just they

1103
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:03,600
Speaker 2: there weren't there weren't enough of them that it was

1104
01:03:03,640 --> 01:03:05,520
Speaker 2: an issue for me.

1105
01:03:06,440 --> 01:03:08,400
Speaker 1: If you went into the year, if you just buy

1106
01:03:08,400 --> 01:03:11,320
Speaker 1: yourself and you kill a moose in September, yeah, you

1107
01:03:11,400 --> 01:03:14,600
Speaker 1: kill a bowl. These mostly bulls, you're killing all bulls.

1108
01:03:14,720 --> 01:03:18,400
Speaker 1: You killed bowl in September. Yeah. How long can one

1109
01:03:18,400 --> 01:03:19,480
Speaker 1: guy live off that moose?

1110
01:03:22,240 --> 01:03:25,480
Speaker 2: You know what, that's all you're eating, you know, probably

1111
01:03:25,560 --> 01:03:26,120
Speaker 2: three months?

1112
01:03:26,760 --> 01:03:27,160
Speaker 1: Mm hmm.

1113
01:03:29,320 --> 01:03:31,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not going to take you all the way

1114
01:03:31,080 --> 01:03:34,240
Speaker 2: through the winter. So what else would you have to

1115
01:03:34,240 --> 01:03:37,120
Speaker 2: figure out to make the winner? Well, so up there

1116
01:03:37,240 --> 01:03:39,480
Speaker 2: on the Upper Candick River where I lived, it was

1117
01:03:39,560 --> 01:03:43,800
Speaker 2: a caribou. Every year we were up there, there were

1118
01:03:44,960 --> 01:03:49,560
Speaker 2: there were wintering caribou from the Porcupine Caribou herd and

1119
01:03:50,000 --> 01:03:54,440
Speaker 2: h and so and so. We would take those and

1120
01:03:55,640 --> 01:04:01,120
Speaker 2: they were almost always bulls, big bulls that had lost

1121
01:04:01,120 --> 01:04:07,600
Speaker 2: their horns, their antlers and and and they were skinny. Uh,

1122
01:04:07,720 --> 01:04:10,160
Speaker 2: they might have just a little bit of fat on

1123
01:04:10,200 --> 01:04:16,080
Speaker 2: their on their brisket. Their tongues are spectacular. You slice

1124
01:04:16,120 --> 01:04:18,520
Speaker 2: them up and fry them. They're wonderful. Would you boil

1125
01:04:18,560 --> 01:04:23,440
Speaker 2: them first? Not not with caribou. With moose, I did so.

1126
01:04:23,520 --> 01:04:26,160
Speaker 1: You just slice it, trim off the outer part and

1127
01:04:26,280 --> 01:04:27,000
Speaker 1: fry the center.

1128
01:04:27,120 --> 01:04:29,919
Speaker 2: You don't need to trim it off on the caribou. Yeah,

1129
01:04:30,040 --> 01:04:32,080
Speaker 2: just slice it and fry, slice it and fry it.

1130
01:04:32,080 --> 01:04:33,520
Speaker 2: It's one of the best things anywhere.

1131
01:04:34,560 --> 01:04:38,000
Speaker 1: Huh. But why does that not work with the moose. Well,

1132
01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:41,080
Speaker 1: I always boil them and then slip the skin off. Yeah.

1133
01:04:41,280 --> 01:04:45,520
Speaker 1: With moose, that's true. Uh. With caribou you don't need to. Huh.

1134
01:04:45,920 --> 01:04:48,200
Speaker 1: But they got a thin shell or something.

1135
01:04:48,320 --> 01:04:51,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, thin shell and uh, and the muscle there is

1136
01:04:51,480 --> 01:04:53,640
Speaker 2: just uh, it's got a lot of fat in it.

1137
01:04:53,640 --> 01:04:57,840
Speaker 2: It's it's wonderful. Just raw sliced. Yeah, well it's fried,

1138
01:04:58,000 --> 01:04:58,760
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, but.

1139
01:04:58,760 --> 01:05:02,880
Speaker 1: Not not pre cooked in any way right to soften

1140
01:05:02,920 --> 01:05:03,120
Speaker 1: it up.

1141
01:05:03,160 --> 01:05:05,120
Speaker 2: It's soft enough. No, you fry it right in a pan,

1142
01:05:05,440 --> 01:05:08,400
Speaker 2: just like it is. Slice it, fry it. Really, it's wonderful.

1143
01:05:08,440 --> 01:05:10,560
Speaker 2: I've never done that. It's one of the best things anywhere.

1144
01:05:11,520 --> 01:05:11,840
Speaker 1: Karen.

1145
01:05:11,920 --> 01:05:16,600
Speaker 2: In fact, in non Dalton, we I had gotten three

1146
01:05:16,680 --> 01:05:21,800
Speaker 2: caribou up on this mountain and I went and was

1147
01:05:21,960 --> 01:05:25,520
Speaker 2: butchering one and this, uh, this older fella from non

1148
01:05:25,600 --> 01:05:28,880
Speaker 2: Dalton stopped and cut the tongues out of the other

1149
01:05:28,920 --> 01:05:32,880
Speaker 2: two and and took off. And I go to butcher them,

1150
01:05:33,320 --> 01:05:35,440
Speaker 2: and and like the tongues are gone, and I'm going

1151
01:05:35,480 --> 01:05:37,360
Speaker 2: to like, this isn't.

1152
01:05:37,160 --> 01:05:40,520
Speaker 1: Right, you know. So I put them up and go home.

1153
01:05:40,560 --> 01:05:44,720
Speaker 2: And Karen says, oh, good, three h three caribou tongs

1154
01:05:44,720 --> 01:05:47,040
Speaker 2: And I said, well, only got one because you know

1155
01:05:47,120 --> 01:05:49,960
Speaker 2: this guy got the other two. He said, well, go

1156
01:05:50,040 --> 01:05:52,400
Speaker 2: get them from him. So I go and I talk

1157
01:05:52,480 --> 01:05:54,360
Speaker 2: with him and I say, you know, we we really

1158
01:05:54,400 --> 01:05:56,680
Speaker 2: liked it. He says, you're white people, you know you

1159
01:05:56,720 --> 01:05:57,760
Speaker 2: don't like caribou times.

1160
01:05:57,840 --> 01:06:00,560
Speaker 1: I said, no, we do. I said, Aaron sent me

1161
01:06:00,600 --> 01:06:02,240
Speaker 1: to get him back. He says, I'll give you one

1162
01:06:02,280 --> 01:06:02,760
Speaker 1: of them back.

1163
01:06:02,880 --> 01:06:06,680
Speaker 2: I said, okay, yeah, it's funny, yeah, but no, it's

1164
01:06:06,680 --> 01:06:08,080
Speaker 2: a it's a delicacy.

1165
01:06:08,400 --> 01:06:11,919
Speaker 1: Mild Man used to dig around other people's gut piles, yeah,

1166
01:06:12,160 --> 01:06:15,280
Speaker 1: deer gut piles. He'd he'd go get the heart and

1167
01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:19,240
Speaker 1: liver out of other people's gut piles. Yeah, yeah, yeah

1168
01:06:19,280 --> 01:06:21,280
Speaker 1: for sure, like didn't even he didn't even think anything

1169
01:06:21,360 --> 01:06:21,600
Speaker 1: of it.

1170
01:06:21,640 --> 01:06:24,520
Speaker 2: Well, so the heart is off of a off of

1171
01:06:24,520 --> 01:06:27,120
Speaker 2: a fat animal is wonderful and they got you know,

1172
01:06:27,160 --> 01:06:30,240
Speaker 2: you got this big, you know, cluster of fat around

1173
01:06:30,240 --> 01:06:32,800
Speaker 2: the top of the heart. And slicing that up and

1174
01:06:32,800 --> 01:06:37,080
Speaker 2: frying it just one of the best things. Yeah, moose caribou.

1175
01:06:36,800 --> 01:06:38,280
Speaker 1: So how would you handle a moose tongue?

1176
01:06:39,360 --> 01:06:42,840
Speaker 2: So I'd boil it and uh, and then slice it

1177
01:06:43,120 --> 01:06:44,600
Speaker 2: and and fry it.

1178
01:06:45,400 --> 01:06:49,400
Speaker 1: Now, help me understand why? Why does it? Why did?

1179
01:06:49,760 --> 01:06:54,040
Speaker 1: Why can you fry a caribou tongue sliced without doing

1180
01:06:54,080 --> 01:06:57,240
Speaker 1: any prep? It's tender? But so if you do it

1181
01:06:57,280 --> 01:07:00,520
Speaker 1: to a moose tongue, Yeah, is the center still or

1182
01:07:00,600 --> 01:07:03,000
Speaker 1: is just this? Even the center is hard?

1183
01:07:03,320 --> 01:07:05,320
Speaker 2: It's tough. Yeah? Really Yeah?

1184
01:07:06,200 --> 01:07:08,360
Speaker 1: Have you ever monkeyed around just frying deer tongues up

1185
01:07:08,400 --> 01:07:09,360
Speaker 1: without cooking them? First?

1186
01:07:09,440 --> 01:07:13,000
Speaker 2: I've only had anything to do with a couple of deer,

1187
01:07:13,520 --> 01:07:16,439
Speaker 2: and that was from down to south southeast. Yeah, when

1188
01:07:17,120 --> 01:07:19,520
Speaker 2: my father was living down there and we went out

1189
01:07:19,560 --> 01:07:22,640
Speaker 2: to this island called Pleasant Island in Icy Strait and

1190
01:07:22,920 --> 01:07:25,760
Speaker 2: uh and got deer. But those are the only ones

1191
01:07:26,520 --> 01:07:31,520
Speaker 2: I've had any direct knowledge of.

1192
01:07:31,600 --> 01:07:34,120
Speaker 1: Would you eat bear tongues? I never tried it.

1193
01:07:35,600 --> 01:07:37,880
Speaker 3: Huh.

1194
01:07:38,200 --> 01:07:41,080
Speaker 1: Would you go up into the mountains for sheep? Mm hmm, yeah,

1195
01:07:41,080 --> 01:07:43,640
Speaker 1: I did. What time of year would you go do that?

1196
01:07:44,360 --> 01:07:48,520
Speaker 1: August usually, okay, And how would you handle oaths? Well,

1197
01:07:50,120 --> 01:07:51,880
Speaker 1: you know, by the time you get up there, you

1198
01:07:51,920 --> 01:07:53,640
Speaker 1: got to eat it just to get out of there. Probably.

1199
01:07:54,200 --> 01:07:58,800
Speaker 2: Well, so a lot of people they they get into

1200
01:07:58,840 --> 01:08:03,080
Speaker 2: this crisis right as they shoot a sheep, it's blazing hot,

1201
01:08:03,680 --> 01:08:06,360
Speaker 2: and they got to pack it for miles and then

1202
01:08:06,400 --> 01:08:07,480
Speaker 2: get it to a freezer.

1203
01:08:08,320 --> 01:08:09,200
Speaker 1: What I did is.

1204
01:08:09,200 --> 01:08:12,640
Speaker 2: I just sat up there and ate it, okay, because

1205
01:08:13,040 --> 01:08:18,200
Speaker 2: sheep is not that big and and they're wonderful, and

1206
01:08:18,280 --> 01:08:22,480
Speaker 2: so it would it would feed us and we'd go exploring,

1207
01:08:24,600 --> 01:08:26,479
Speaker 2: because you're not going to keep it in you're not

1208
01:08:26,520 --> 01:08:27,439
Speaker 2: going to keep a sheep.

1209
01:08:28,439 --> 01:08:28,880
Speaker 1: We didn't.

1210
01:08:28,960 --> 01:08:31,160
Speaker 2: We didn't never hunt sheep at a time when you

1211
01:08:31,200 --> 01:08:34,559
Speaker 2: could put it up for the winter. Right it's too early.

1212
01:08:34,760 --> 01:08:37,960
Speaker 2: It's too early, and it's and it's you know, not

1213
01:08:38,080 --> 01:08:42,719
Speaker 2: close enough to anywhere that we would you know that

1214
01:08:42,720 --> 01:08:46,479
Speaker 2: that we would have a cabin. It's it's a it's

1215
01:08:46,520 --> 01:08:50,720
Speaker 2: a long waist out. But but by not having to

1216
01:08:50,800 --> 01:08:53,960
Speaker 2: transport it to a freezer back in town three or

1217
01:08:54,000 --> 01:08:59,080
Speaker 2: four days after you kill it, we just had We

1218
01:08:59,160 --> 01:09:00,839
Speaker 2: just had a wonderful time in the mountains.

1219
01:09:01,400 --> 01:09:03,040
Speaker 1: How many days would you be able to eat that sheep?

1220
01:09:03,920 --> 01:09:06,800
Speaker 1: They'll go for a week. She just sit there and

1221
01:09:06,800 --> 01:09:10,120
Speaker 1: eat it. Yeah, and it'll keep for longer than that.

1222
01:09:10,479 --> 01:09:13,439
Speaker 1: So you process it's the same way. Hang it. Cut

1223
01:09:13,479 --> 01:09:15,840
Speaker 1: the places off that are rough that are going to

1224
01:09:16,120 --> 01:09:21,280
Speaker 1: attract blowflies. Blowflies are not that big a deal as

1225
01:09:21,280 --> 01:09:23,200
Speaker 1: long as you're paying attention to the meat. You can

1226
01:09:23,240 --> 01:09:26,280
Speaker 1: always cut a chunk off that has blowflies on it

1227
01:09:26,320 --> 01:09:28,680
Speaker 1: and throw it to the dogs and they think it's fine.

1228
01:09:28,960 --> 01:09:34,679
Speaker 2: You got to be on top of it. But yeah,

1229
01:09:34,720 --> 01:09:38,880
Speaker 2: but the sheep were wonderful. They're always fat, always good,

1230
01:09:39,560 --> 01:09:43,160
Speaker 2: and they're they're a small So you were talking earlier

1231
01:09:43,240 --> 01:09:44,800
Speaker 2: about the bear. You know, what do you do with

1232
01:09:44,800 --> 01:09:47,360
Speaker 2: a bear? Well, you eat it. It's in August. You're

1233
01:09:47,400 --> 01:09:49,799
Speaker 2: not trying to keep it into the winter. You're trying

1234
01:09:49,800 --> 01:09:51,800
Speaker 2: to have a good piece of meat to eat for

1235
01:09:51,840 --> 01:09:54,360
Speaker 2: the next couple of weeks. And you can do that.

1236
01:09:54,640 --> 01:09:57,400
Speaker 1: You mentioned the krinn something about seeing a ram a

1237
01:09:57,439 --> 01:10:01,440
Speaker 1: doll ram how like you know room their horns? Yeah,

1238
01:10:01,560 --> 01:10:04,719
Speaker 1: did you have you I've observed them. I've observed big

1239
01:10:04,760 --> 01:10:06,880
Speaker 1: horns scratching their horn.

1240
01:10:07,280 --> 01:10:07,800
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1241
01:10:08,040 --> 01:10:09,559
Speaker 1: But what did you see?

1242
01:10:09,680 --> 01:10:13,519
Speaker 2: So so I never understood how they broomed their horns,

1243
01:10:13,600 --> 01:10:17,839
Speaker 2: you know. But but so in Alaska anyway, a legal

1244
01:10:17,960 --> 01:10:22,479
Speaker 2: ram is one that has two broom tips or that's

1245
01:10:22,840 --> 01:10:27,080
Speaker 2: full curl or more right, and and there may be

1246
01:10:27,200 --> 01:10:29,720
Speaker 2: some differences in places. It used to be one and

1247
01:10:29,960 --> 01:10:33,160
Speaker 2: a one in an eighth or something like that, you know, but.

1248
01:10:35,240 --> 01:10:38,559
Speaker 1: Curl. But but but that's how it's been everywhere I've hunted. Yeah,

1249
01:10:38,560 --> 01:10:41,920
Speaker 1: like most, Yeah, I would say most. You hear of exceptions,

1250
01:10:41,960 --> 01:10:44,479
Speaker 1: like any ram whatever in someplace in the Brooks range

1251
01:10:44,479 --> 01:10:46,719
Speaker 1: in the old days. But yeah, full curl or two broomed.

1252
01:10:47,040 --> 01:10:50,040
Speaker 1: And they used to not define broomed very clearly, but

1253
01:10:50,120 --> 01:10:52,200
Speaker 1: it has to be now it's defined as the entire

1254
01:10:52,320 --> 01:10:56,400
Speaker 1: lamb tip is gone, so his entire first year's growth. Well,

1255
01:10:56,439 --> 01:10:58,479
Speaker 1: it always bothers me. How do the heck do they

1256
01:10:58,520 --> 01:11:00,680
Speaker 1: break those? You know, because I don't know, you know,

1257
01:11:01,040 --> 01:11:04,280
Speaker 1: hitting two big rams hitting you know, even if it

1258
01:11:04,360 --> 01:11:07,719
Speaker 1: did connect by the tips, you know, they're they're they're

1259
01:11:07,840 --> 01:11:10,599
Speaker 1: just really tough. You know, there's they're hitting the boss

1260
01:11:10,720 --> 01:11:13,519
Speaker 1: a round thing, hitting a round thing, right, and it's

1261
01:11:13,600 --> 01:11:16,280
Speaker 1: it's not going to break it. But so I was

1262
01:11:16,360 --> 01:11:18,880
Speaker 1: up there with my older son in uh some of

1263
01:11:18,920 --> 01:11:22,719
Speaker 1: these mountains and big limestone mountains on the north side

1264
01:11:23,120 --> 01:11:27,280
Speaker 1: and of the Yukon, and and we saw these three

1265
01:11:27,320 --> 01:11:30,920
Speaker 1: sheep walking on this one screeen slope across this uh

1266
01:11:31,200 --> 01:11:34,559
Speaker 1: this uh it was.

1267
01:11:34,760 --> 01:11:38,200
Speaker 2: It was a valley, real steep valley, both sides, and

1268
01:11:38,240 --> 01:11:41,639
Speaker 2: they were walking a scree slope and we charged up

1269
01:11:41,840 --> 01:11:45,639
Speaker 2: down and then up to meet them on this on

1270
01:11:45,680 --> 01:11:48,519
Speaker 2: this street. Well, the sheep trail across the screen slope

1271
01:11:48,640 --> 01:11:51,320
Speaker 2: because you could see it where it goes, you know,

1272
01:11:51,439 --> 01:11:52,960
Speaker 2: and we knew they were going to go buy this

1273
01:11:53,000 --> 01:11:55,519
Speaker 2: one place. So we climb up and we get to

1274
01:11:55,640 --> 01:11:58,760
Speaker 2: this place where we thought they were going to come

1275
01:11:58,760 --> 01:12:00,240
Speaker 2: out in front of us, but they had our he

1276
01:12:00,280 --> 01:12:03,760
Speaker 2: gotten by, and there was one that was on the

1277
01:12:03,800 --> 01:12:10,360
Speaker 2: next that it it has these big ridges of limestone towers,

1278
01:12:10,600 --> 01:12:12,600
Speaker 2: you know, that would come down and they had a

1279
01:12:12,640 --> 01:12:14,880
Speaker 2: trail that would go through and then scream between them.

1280
01:12:15,200 --> 01:12:17,320
Speaker 2: And we were about three hundred yards away, but we

1281
01:12:17,360 --> 01:12:20,479
Speaker 2: hear this banging and we look over there and here's

1282
01:12:20,479 --> 01:12:23,920
Speaker 2: this sheep and he backs up and he gets up

1283
01:12:23,920 --> 01:12:27,040
Speaker 2: on his back legs and crack, he hits his he

1284
01:12:27,160 --> 01:12:31,240
Speaker 2: hits the rock wall with his horns, and he goes

1285
01:12:31,280 --> 01:12:34,679
Speaker 2: back again and gets up there and bam bam. He's

1286
01:12:34,720 --> 01:12:38,080
Speaker 2: just one after another. He's practicing, you know, hitting this

1287
01:12:38,200 --> 01:12:40,880
Speaker 2: rock wall. And I realized that's how they're that's how

1288
01:12:40,920 --> 01:12:45,080
Speaker 2: they're breaking their tips. I know it. Yeah, and so

1289
01:12:45,080 --> 01:12:47,800
Speaker 2: so what's the first thing that's going to hit when

1290
01:12:47,840 --> 01:12:50,960
Speaker 2: you have a full curl hits the tips, they're gonna

1291
01:12:51,000 --> 01:12:52,879
Speaker 2: hit Huh, They're.

1292
01:12:52,680 --> 01:12:54,200
Speaker 1: Going to hit the rock wall. I want you.

1293
01:12:54,240 --> 01:12:55,639
Speaker 2: And that's a flat enough surface.

1294
01:12:55,720 --> 01:12:57,840
Speaker 1: Yeah. I watched a big horn one time ram upon

1295
01:12:57,920 --> 01:13:00,280
Speaker 1: de rolsa Pine. I counted he rammed it seven twenty

1296
01:13:00,280 --> 01:13:00,880
Speaker 1: five times.

1297
01:13:01,040 --> 01:13:02,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that's a soft thing.

1298
01:13:02,880 --> 01:13:03,200
Speaker 3: That's well.

1299
01:13:03,280 --> 01:13:06,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, but no, I get what you're saying because you

1300
01:13:06,120 --> 01:13:09,280
Speaker 1: can see that they upbraid it. Like I think they

1301
01:13:09,280 --> 01:13:12,720
Speaker 1: don't like it in their peripheral vision when they upbraid it,

1302
01:13:12,800 --> 01:13:15,679
Speaker 1: because sometimes they wear like big horns, wear them smooth.

1303
01:13:16,720 --> 01:13:20,200
Speaker 1: They're like like like my fist, like smooth and round,

1304
01:13:20,760 --> 01:13:22,000
Speaker 1: and I think they abraid it.

1305
01:13:22,520 --> 01:13:24,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know.

1306
01:13:25,200 --> 01:13:27,000
Speaker 1: I'm telling you, dude, I don't they don't like it.

1307
01:13:27,000 --> 01:13:29,120
Speaker 1: They don't like it. They're I think they see it.

1308
01:13:29,200 --> 01:13:32,160
Speaker 2: I don't disagree, but I think the mechanism, you know,

1309
01:13:32,240 --> 01:13:35,599
Speaker 2: because when you get one that is is you know,

1310
01:13:35,720 --> 01:13:39,080
Speaker 2: not broomed, but a big, full curl.

1311
01:13:39,280 --> 01:13:42,640
Speaker 1: They're tough. It's hard. No, I'm with you, man, I

1312
01:13:42,640 --> 01:13:45,040
Speaker 1: don't I can't account for them being snapped off. And

1313
01:13:45,080 --> 01:13:47,760
Speaker 1: I I, yeah, I snapped off. I know. I like

1314
01:13:47,800 --> 01:13:50,880
Speaker 1: what it's theory, but I pictured him. I was like,

1315
01:13:50,880 --> 01:13:52,760
Speaker 1: there's no way he's sticking in a crack in the

1316
01:13:52,840 --> 01:13:54,559
Speaker 1: rock and prying it off. I don't know how they

1317
01:13:54,560 --> 01:13:56,880
Speaker 1: break them off. I think, I'm sure you're right they're

1318
01:13:56,880 --> 01:13:59,160
Speaker 1: whacking them. Yeah, I'm sure you're right. But what I'm

1319
01:13:59,280 --> 01:14:03,479
Speaker 1: getting at, yeah, is and it's more common in big horns,

1320
01:14:03,720 --> 01:14:06,240
Speaker 1: like you never see on a big like an eight

1321
01:14:06,360 --> 01:14:08,960
Speaker 1: nine ten year old big horn. Yeah that's some bitch.

1322
01:14:09,080 --> 01:14:12,080
Speaker 1: Never has his lamb tips. But they're smooth.

1323
01:14:12,600 --> 01:14:13,680
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1324
01:14:14,200 --> 01:14:19,880
Speaker 1: And I have watched sheep. I have watched sheep rubbing them,

1325
01:14:20,479 --> 01:14:22,720
Speaker 1: rubbing them on a rock, on a rock, on a

1326
01:14:22,720 --> 01:14:25,320
Speaker 1: cliff face, just rubbing it. Yeah, like cat like the

1327
01:14:25,360 --> 01:14:28,320
Speaker 1: same way you'd watch something scratch itself, the same way

1328
01:14:28,320 --> 01:14:30,920
Speaker 1: you'd watch it scratch yourself on a tree. He's sitting

1329
01:14:30,920 --> 01:14:33,920
Speaker 1: there like rubbing. Yeah. But I bet I'll bet the

1330
01:14:33,960 --> 01:14:36,800
Speaker 1: break the initial bright No, I'm not contesting it on

1331
01:14:36,840 --> 01:14:38,920
Speaker 1: the break man, I think you're right. I'm just talking

1332
01:14:38,960 --> 01:14:40,960
Speaker 1: about the rubbing. But by theory, and I don't know,

1333
01:14:41,000 --> 01:14:42,439
Speaker 1: I never talked to a guy that knows a whole

1334
01:14:42,439 --> 01:14:45,000
Speaker 1: bunch about sheep. I know, like a teeny about sheep.

1335
01:14:45,200 --> 01:14:49,960
Speaker 1: But my theory is, and no, no guy's ever cropped like,

1336
01:14:49,960 --> 01:14:52,000
Speaker 1: I don't know, this is maybe totally not true.

1337
01:14:52,120 --> 01:14:52,599
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1338
01:14:52,760 --> 01:14:58,120
Speaker 1: My theory is had been it gets in their peripheral

1339
01:14:58,200 --> 01:15:00,759
Speaker 1: vision and it bugs the hell out of them. Yeah,

1340
01:15:00,960 --> 01:15:04,240
Speaker 1: and so they're like, what is that? And they're and

1341
01:15:04,240 --> 01:15:09,840
Speaker 1: don't like it. I don't know, you have to interview one. Yeah,

1342
01:15:13,479 --> 01:15:17,880
Speaker 1: bear see a dog and they think it's a wolf. Yeah,

1343
01:15:17,920 --> 01:15:20,200
Speaker 1: what's a wolf think when it sees it's? What's a

1344
01:15:20,240 --> 01:15:23,519
Speaker 1: wolf think a dog is? So that's an interesting thing,

1345
01:15:23,560 --> 01:15:23,800
Speaker 1: you know.

1346
01:15:23,880 --> 01:15:27,960
Speaker 2: So I used to travel quite a bit on the

1347
01:15:28,000 --> 01:15:31,080
Speaker 2: Candic River and the dogs would be running loose, you know,

1348
01:15:31,080 --> 01:15:34,000
Speaker 2: because how do you go up the river with a

1349
01:15:34,000 --> 01:15:37,080
Speaker 2: canoe and not have them run loose? Right, you can't

1350
01:15:37,360 --> 01:15:39,759
Speaker 2: ride them in there. So there's a lot of things

1351
01:15:39,760 --> 01:15:42,320
Speaker 2: you see, you know. They they'll drive a moose into

1352
01:15:42,360 --> 01:15:47,360
Speaker 2: the river. The river is safe, safe country for a moose, right,

1353
01:15:48,120 --> 01:15:51,479
Speaker 2: And the moose thinks the dogs are wolves, and they'll

1354
01:15:51,640 --> 01:15:54,799
Speaker 2: run right into the river where they can stand. And

1355
01:15:54,920 --> 01:15:58,519
Speaker 2: the dog's gotta dogs or wolves gotta swim and then

1356
01:15:58,560 --> 01:16:00,840
Speaker 2: they'll they'll pound them if they get close.

1357
01:16:01,200 --> 01:16:03,080
Speaker 1: They pound them with their hoofs in there. Yeah, they

1358
01:16:03,200 --> 01:16:03,920
Speaker 1: get them in the water.

1359
01:16:04,120 --> 01:16:09,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and so and so the dogs sometimes, you know,

1360
01:16:09,120 --> 01:16:12,519
Speaker 2: because they're not quite as savvy as wolves. Uh, they

1361
01:16:12,520 --> 01:16:14,600
Speaker 2: would swim out trying to get to the moose, and

1362
01:16:14,600 --> 01:16:18,080
Speaker 2: so the moose will just pound them. And none of

1363
01:16:18,120 --> 01:16:23,080
Speaker 2: our dogs got damaged in that that I that I recall.

1364
01:16:23,520 --> 01:16:25,320
Speaker 2: I mean, they it didn't it didn't kill them, it

1365
01:16:25,360 --> 01:16:28,840
Speaker 2: didn't break them up. But but I think that sometimes

1366
01:16:29,320 --> 01:16:32,800
Speaker 2: they do that with wolves. But but probably not in

1367
01:16:32,840 --> 01:16:35,519
Speaker 2: the water because wolves probably No, we can't get them

1368
01:16:35,520 --> 01:16:40,280
Speaker 2: when they're in the water, but but wolves, so wolves

1369
01:16:40,360 --> 01:16:42,559
Speaker 2: more or let's give up when that would happen. Yeah,

1370
01:16:43,280 --> 01:16:46,280
Speaker 2: they might, they might sit around. We've had times when

1371
01:16:46,320 --> 01:16:49,400
Speaker 2: we're lining up the river and and the dogs chase

1372
01:16:49,439 --> 01:16:51,719
Speaker 2: the moose into the river and it's not big enough

1373
01:16:51,720 --> 01:16:54,439
Speaker 2: for us to get past while the moose is in there,

1374
01:16:54,520 --> 01:16:58,880
Speaker 2: you know, so we're we camp sometimes really yeah, because

1375
01:16:58,880 --> 01:17:00,400
Speaker 2: it's not going to get it come out, you know.

1376
01:17:00,439 --> 01:17:03,000
Speaker 2: We get the coax the dogs back to us and

1377
01:17:03,000 --> 01:17:05,680
Speaker 2: get them tied up, and sometimes it's still, you know,

1378
01:17:06,080 --> 01:17:08,880
Speaker 2: hours before the moose is ready to to get out

1379
01:17:08,880 --> 01:17:12,160
Speaker 2: of the water and go somewhere and then we can

1380
01:17:12,160 --> 01:17:19,439
Speaker 2: continue up. But one time I was walking along the

1381
01:17:19,520 --> 01:17:24,479
Speaker 2: river with the dogs, and and and I hear them

1382
01:17:24,479 --> 01:17:27,960
Speaker 2: barking back into spruce woods. Uh and and I'm thinking,

1383
01:17:27,960 --> 01:17:32,479
Speaker 2: that's that can't be a moose. Moose usually won't bay up,

1384
01:17:33,000 --> 01:17:35,160
Speaker 2: you know, with the dogs Chason back in the woods,

1385
01:17:35,160 --> 01:17:37,280
Speaker 2: they go to the water, you know. And I'm so

1386
01:17:37,360 --> 01:17:39,800
Speaker 2: I think this they may have a bear up a tree, right,

1387
01:17:39,880 --> 01:17:41,799
Speaker 2: So what can you tell me what breed?

1388
01:17:42,120 --> 01:17:44,320
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure they're mixed, but what are these dogs?

1389
01:17:44,320 --> 01:17:44,960
Speaker 1: What do they look like?

1390
01:17:45,080 --> 01:17:48,479
Speaker 2: They're they're great big huskies that they were. You know,

1391
01:17:48,520 --> 01:17:50,400
Speaker 2: we had some that were as much as one hundred

1392
01:17:50,400 --> 01:17:56,000
Speaker 2: and twenty pounds and they're as there. They're the same

1393
01:17:56,120 --> 01:17:59,880
Speaker 2: size as wolves up in that part of the country.

1394
01:18:00,000 --> 01:18:02,080
Speaker 2: I mean, a big wolf would be bigger than the

1395
01:18:02,080 --> 01:18:06,880
Speaker 2: biggest dog. But a lot of people bread these big

1396
01:18:06,920 --> 01:18:10,880
Speaker 2: dogs because they can pack and they're you know, when

1397
01:18:10,880 --> 01:18:13,599
Speaker 2: you're mushing around on a on a trap line and

1398
01:18:13,640 --> 01:18:16,760
Speaker 2: you say whoa, they'd stop and you know where's you know,

1399
01:18:16,800 --> 01:18:19,840
Speaker 2: the little hyper race dogs they tend not to.

1400
01:18:19,960 --> 01:18:21,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's what I was trying to picture. If

1401
01:18:21,520 --> 01:18:23,960
Speaker 1: you had that new kind of souped up race dog,

1402
01:18:24,040 --> 01:18:26,400
Speaker 1: if you have the old stylers, old style. But when

1403
01:18:26,439 --> 01:18:29,240
Speaker 1: you say babe, they'll still do that, though they'll get

1404
01:18:29,280 --> 01:18:31,479
Speaker 1: something cornered, they'll raise hell. Yeah.

1405
01:18:31,520 --> 01:18:33,439
Speaker 2: So they're barking back in the woods, and I think

1406
01:18:33,479 --> 01:18:35,320
Speaker 2: that's got to be a bear, you know, So I start,

1407
01:18:35,400 --> 01:18:38,559
Speaker 2: I'm sneaking back there with my rifle, looking up into

1408
01:18:38,600 --> 01:18:42,920
Speaker 2: the trees, and I realized, I look where the dogs are,

1409
01:18:43,520 --> 01:18:45,800
Speaker 2: and they've got a wolf bite up. They've got a

1410
01:18:45,920 --> 01:18:48,920
Speaker 2: single wolf, same size as they were, and his hair

1411
01:18:49,040 --> 01:18:52,759
Speaker 2: is sticking straight out from his from his whole body

1412
01:18:53,000 --> 01:18:56,320
Speaker 2: and his tail, and the dogs are seriously as close

1413
01:18:56,360 --> 01:19:00,479
Speaker 2: to me to this microphone, right, and they're barking at him,

1414
01:19:00,520 --> 01:19:03,479
Speaker 2: but they're not biting him. But but wolves, you know,

1415
01:19:03,600 --> 01:19:06,160
Speaker 2: if there's a wolf from a different pack that comes

1416
01:19:06,240 --> 01:19:09,639
Speaker 2: and gets surrounded by a pack of wolves, them more

1417
01:19:09,760 --> 01:19:14,240
Speaker 2: likely than not kill it. And so that wolf was

1418
01:19:14,360 --> 01:19:18,240
Speaker 2: spooped that he was in that situation he might get nailed.

1419
01:19:18,640 --> 01:19:20,800
Speaker 2: And the dogs, you know, it was I don't know

1420
01:19:20,800 --> 01:19:24,320
Speaker 2: how many I had then four or five, and and

1421
01:19:24,360 --> 01:19:27,200
Speaker 2: they're they're the same size as this animal, but they

1422
01:19:27,200 --> 01:19:31,040
Speaker 2: are they are barking at him, like seriously disclose, you know.

1423
01:19:31,520 --> 01:19:36,479
Speaker 2: And but the wolf spots me, took off, oh really yeah,

1424
01:19:36,640 --> 01:19:39,920
Speaker 2: hauled ass and the dogs right on his tail. And

1425
01:19:40,320 --> 01:19:42,320
Speaker 2: the dogs came back in about a half an hour.

1426
01:19:42,920 --> 01:19:45,320
Speaker 2: But I'm sure the wolf got away because the dogs

1427
01:19:46,280 --> 01:19:50,280
Speaker 2: they were just interested, you know, they weren't trying to

1428
01:19:50,360 --> 01:19:53,160
Speaker 2: kill him or anything. And he might have been able

1429
01:19:53,200 --> 01:19:54,880
Speaker 2: to defend himself too, but they.

1430
01:19:54,920 --> 01:19:59,720
Speaker 1: Knew but they they knew he wasn't a dog. Yeah, yeah,

1431
01:20:00,240 --> 01:20:02,880
Speaker 1: he was different. Man. I tell you, like on that

1432
01:20:02,920 --> 01:20:06,560
Speaker 1: canine and canine thing, we have this little I don't like,

1433
01:20:06,600 --> 01:20:08,080
Speaker 1: I don't know how big it is. Maybe it's thirty

1434
01:20:08,160 --> 01:20:12,960
Speaker 1: five pounds this dog. And if I even so much

1435
01:20:13,040 --> 01:20:18,920
Speaker 1: as skin a coyote, okay, that dog smells that death.

1436
01:20:19,840 --> 01:20:23,840
Speaker 1: That dog knows like it's never been beat up by

1437
01:20:23,840 --> 01:20:27,800
Speaker 1: a kyote. Something about to smell. And if there's a

1438
01:20:27,880 --> 01:20:32,519
Speaker 1: kyote laying there, it is no way gonna go up.

1439
01:20:32,560 --> 01:20:34,600
Speaker 1: There's not a dog in the world. My dog's not

1440
01:20:34,640 --> 01:20:37,800
Speaker 1: gonna run up and try to play with yeah, you know,

1441
01:20:37,840 --> 01:20:40,840
Speaker 1: they smell each other's butts whatever. Like, there's not a

1442
01:20:40,840 --> 01:20:42,719
Speaker 1: dog in the world. My dog's not gonna be excited

1443
01:20:42,720 --> 01:20:48,519
Speaker 1: about interacting with a kyote. It knows that, it knows

1444
01:20:48,560 --> 01:20:52,080
Speaker 1: that is not a dog. It is death. And I

1445
01:20:52,120 --> 01:20:54,280
Speaker 1: always wonder how it like, how they put that together.

1446
01:20:54,920 --> 01:20:55,880
Speaker 1: It knows it's death.

1447
01:20:57,400 --> 01:21:01,840
Speaker 2: There were times when like this guy Dick Cook. We

1448
01:21:01,920 --> 01:21:04,400
Speaker 2: talked about Dick Cook, you know, on the taton Nick River.

1449
01:21:04,520 --> 01:21:05,240
Speaker 1: He had.

1450
01:21:06,600 --> 01:21:12,920
Speaker 2: His dogs sometimes interacted with wolves and and they didn't

1451
01:21:12,960 --> 01:21:18,400
Speaker 2: kill each other, they didn't fight, but the dogs would

1452
01:21:18,439 --> 01:21:22,759
Speaker 2: run out if the wolves were cross and crossing paths

1453
01:21:22,800 --> 01:21:28,280
Speaker 2: with them. But I don't really I don't quite understand why.

1454
01:21:28,320 --> 01:21:30,839
Speaker 2: But I think they both understand they're different.

1455
01:21:31,640 --> 01:21:31,920
Speaker 1: Yep.

1456
01:21:32,080 --> 01:21:38,599
Speaker 2: And I never had I never had the wolves bother

1457
01:21:38,760 --> 01:21:39,400
Speaker 2: my dogs.

1458
01:21:39,439 --> 01:21:40,679
Speaker 1: Mostly they stayed away.

1459
01:21:41,920 --> 01:21:49,880
Speaker 2: But but sometimes I I've shot him big wolves because

1460
01:21:49,880 --> 01:21:53,439
Speaker 2: they're hanging around. One time it was in the fall

1461
01:21:53,680 --> 01:21:56,760
Speaker 2: and we had a moose hanging and our dogs were

1462
01:21:57,280 --> 01:22:02,960
Speaker 2: chained up, but they would at no they would start barking,

1463
01:22:03,640 --> 01:22:05,960
Speaker 2: and I didn't know what was going on, because I

1464
01:22:06,000 --> 01:22:11,960
Speaker 2: never saw anything until it snowed, and then I realized, oh,

1465
01:22:12,080 --> 01:22:15,120
Speaker 2: this is wolf. A wolf is casing our place, going

1466
01:22:15,160 --> 01:22:21,080
Speaker 2: all around and and and at the time, uh Jed,

1467
01:22:21,200 --> 01:22:24,880
Speaker 2: I don't know how how old he was, five or

1468
01:22:24,920 --> 01:22:29,800
Speaker 2: six maybe, and he wanted to He always took great

1469
01:22:29,840 --> 01:22:32,360
Speaker 2: glee and go and doing things by himself. So he

1470
01:22:32,439 --> 01:22:35,599
Speaker 2: wanted to walk this trail back to a big beaver

1471
01:22:35,720 --> 01:22:38,639
Speaker 2: pond that we had a ski plane landing every once

1472
01:22:38,680 --> 01:22:43,080
Speaker 2: in a while in the winter. And and uh and

1473
01:22:43,120 --> 01:22:45,880
Speaker 2: we never did let him go by himself, you know,

1474
01:22:45,920 --> 01:22:47,559
Speaker 2: because there's a I don't know what it was, a

1475
01:22:47,600 --> 01:22:51,280
Speaker 2: half mile or so on this nice trail. But but

1476
01:22:52,600 --> 01:22:54,760
Speaker 2: we didn't think he was old enough at the time

1477
01:22:54,800 --> 01:22:58,360
Speaker 2: to do that. And and I think in retrospect, I

1478
01:22:58,400 --> 01:23:00,840
Speaker 2: think that wolf would have taken him if he'd been

1479
01:23:00,880 --> 01:23:04,759
Speaker 2: down there by himself. But but anyway, I I decided,

1480
01:23:04,760 --> 01:23:07,120
Speaker 2: I'm going to take this this wolf in. And there

1481
01:23:07,120 --> 01:23:09,879
Speaker 2: were times when he would walk up along the willow

1482
01:23:10,040 --> 01:23:13,479
Speaker 2: bar right right between the house and the and the river.

1483
01:23:14,000 --> 01:23:17,559
Speaker 2: And I got down there and hid out in this

1484
01:23:18,240 --> 01:23:21,040
Speaker 2: piece of driftwood and and waited for him, and he

1485
01:23:21,080 --> 01:23:25,400
Speaker 2: came right at dusk and shot that that that wolf,

1486
01:23:25,720 --> 01:23:27,880
Speaker 2: and he had a he had a busted up jaw

1487
01:23:28,520 --> 01:23:32,920
Speaker 2: from the moose cracking him, and teeth that weren't there,

1488
01:23:33,240 --> 01:23:36,640
Speaker 2: and then the jaw had had healed, but it just

1489
01:23:36,760 --> 01:23:40,839
Speaker 2: kind of in a in a big glob, so uh,

1490
01:23:40,920 --> 01:23:42,599
Speaker 2: his jaw didn't work quite so well.

1491
01:23:42,840 --> 01:23:43,840
Speaker 1: So he was.

1492
01:23:45,360 --> 01:23:49,000
Speaker 2: I couldn't keep up with a pack, perhaps couldn't feed himself.

1493
01:23:49,280 --> 01:23:51,320
Speaker 2: He was trying to figure out how to get some

1494
01:23:51,400 --> 01:23:53,080
Speaker 2: of our moose up there.

1495
01:23:53,479 --> 01:23:57,320
Speaker 1: My buddy in Alaska. This is last winter. He's a trapper,

1496
01:23:57,400 --> 01:24:01,800
Speaker 1: does some trapping. His wife calls him one day and

1497
01:24:01,840 --> 01:24:04,640
Speaker 1: she's got like a she's with her dogs. Yeah, just

1498
01:24:04,760 --> 01:24:07,360
Speaker 1: just right behind his house and there's a wolf messing

1499
01:24:07,439 --> 01:24:10,920
Speaker 1: with her and he doesn't believe her. He's like, it's

1500
01:24:10,960 --> 01:24:13,840
Speaker 1: gotta be a dog. She's like, I know, wolf, I'm

1501
01:24:13,840 --> 01:24:16,280
Speaker 1: looking at a wolf. There's a wolf. Won't leave us alone.

1502
01:24:17,520 --> 01:24:18,800
Speaker 1: And he's still dismissed above it.

1503
01:24:19,000 --> 01:24:19,400
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1504
01:24:19,479 --> 01:24:21,280
Speaker 1: Well, later he goes and looks into the snow and

1505
01:24:21,320 --> 01:24:24,920
Speaker 1: it's like sure enough, and in the morning it's all

1506
01:24:24,960 --> 01:24:29,160
Speaker 1: walking around his house. So he makes a set for

1507
01:24:29,200 --> 01:24:33,080
Speaker 1: it and catches it right away right away. I think

1508
01:24:33,120 --> 01:24:35,280
Speaker 1: he said it was about twenty minutes or something. I

1509
01:24:35,280 --> 01:24:37,960
Speaker 1: mean is that it's like that desperate, that wolf wasn't

1510
01:24:38,000 --> 01:24:41,599
Speaker 1: afraid of people. Well, he showed me a picture. It's face,

1511
01:24:41,880 --> 01:24:46,840
Speaker 1: it's teeth were gone, I mean freshly gone. It's it

1512
01:24:46,920 --> 01:24:49,479
Speaker 1: looked like you if you to put that dog, if

1513
01:24:49,520 --> 01:24:51,080
Speaker 1: you to put that wolf, if you to turn that

1514
01:24:51,120 --> 01:24:57,519
Speaker 1: wolf sideways and set it on an anvil and pulled

1515
01:24:57,520 --> 01:24:59,960
Speaker 1: his lips back and had your body take a sledgehammer

1516
01:25:00,720 --> 01:25:04,519
Speaker 1: and bam on his teeth, you would have got something

1517
01:25:04,560 --> 01:25:08,200
Speaker 1: that looked like what this thing's face looked like. And

1518
01:25:08,240 --> 01:25:11,360
Speaker 1: the only thing you think is somehow it got just

1519
01:25:11,560 --> 01:25:15,800
Speaker 1: stomped by a moose. By a moose, yeah, stopped like

1520
01:25:15,840 --> 01:25:18,400
Speaker 1: he's I mean, it wasn't a great picture, but you

1521
01:25:18,439 --> 01:25:22,519
Speaker 1: look at its face. It it's face, it's teeth on

1522
01:25:22,560 --> 01:25:24,639
Speaker 1: the one side are just crushed.

1523
01:25:24,760 --> 01:25:25,080
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1524
01:25:25,240 --> 01:25:28,320
Speaker 1: In that's how this one was. And somehow something got

1525
01:25:28,360 --> 01:25:32,720
Speaker 1: the perfect shot. A moose has me a moose, Oh

1526
01:25:32,720 --> 01:25:36,880
Speaker 1: the hell's be up there? Yeah, got the perfect shot. Well,

1527
01:25:36,920 --> 01:25:39,759
Speaker 1: so I got. I would rarely get.

1528
01:25:41,080 --> 01:25:46,680
Speaker 2: Adult wolves in any trap or snare a couple of exemptions,

1529
01:25:46,720 --> 01:25:50,040
Speaker 2: but mostly you get the first year and then all

1530
01:25:50,080 --> 01:25:54,640
Speaker 2: of the pups from that litter would see one of

1531
01:25:54,720 --> 01:25:58,240
Speaker 2: their own get into a snare or get into a trap,

1532
01:25:58,640 --> 01:26:01,479
Speaker 2: and they were from that point on they wanted nothing

1533
01:26:01,520 --> 01:26:05,000
Speaker 2: to do with anything that people had going and and

1534
01:26:06,200 --> 01:26:08,479
Speaker 2: it was it was really rare to get the old

1535
01:26:08,520 --> 01:26:11,559
Speaker 2: ones unless you shot them. And so I did a

1536
01:26:11,600 --> 01:26:14,479
Speaker 2: couple of times in the winter they would a pack

1537
01:26:14,520 --> 01:26:17,880
Speaker 2: would run by the house going up the river, and uh,

1538
01:26:18,000 --> 01:26:21,519
Speaker 2: and I ended up shooting I think three all together

1539
01:26:22,960 --> 01:26:27,480
Speaker 2: over the years, adults, the biggest of the adults. And

1540
01:26:27,479 --> 01:26:31,960
Speaker 2: and they're all broken up. They're all they got broken ribs,

1541
01:26:32,360 --> 01:26:36,679
Speaker 2: they got broken legs, that heel, that one had the jaw,

1542
01:26:38,200 --> 01:26:42,160
Speaker 2: all of them had broken ribs, and uh, some of

1543
01:26:42,200 --> 01:26:45,640
Speaker 2: them had healed, most of them had not. And it

1544
01:26:45,720 --> 01:26:49,320
Speaker 2: was just, you know, the flopping bones, flotten bones. It's

1545
01:26:49,360 --> 01:26:53,479
Speaker 2: just incredible. And and it's I'm certain that it's uh

1546
01:26:54,000 --> 01:26:57,880
Speaker 2: it's moose. They're gonna they're whacking them they get close enough,

1547
01:26:58,439 --> 01:27:01,200
Speaker 2: and and it's just uh, consequence of what they eat,

1548
01:27:01,360 --> 01:27:04,400
Speaker 2: because they eat moose, and they do they go up

1549
01:27:04,439 --> 01:27:08,200
Speaker 2: and they bite them and they get kicked and continue on,

1550
01:27:08,400 --> 01:27:10,560
Speaker 2: but it damages them.

1551
01:27:10,600 --> 01:27:10,880
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1552
01:27:11,800 --> 01:27:18,400
Speaker 2: I got one one time and and I was skinning it. Uh,

1553
01:27:18,439 --> 01:27:21,000
Speaker 2: and it's casing, you know. So you go hang it

1554
01:27:21,080 --> 01:27:23,720
Speaker 2: up and go from back legs down to body and

1555
01:27:24,120 --> 01:27:26,400
Speaker 2: pull it down, working your way down to the to

1556
01:27:26,439 --> 01:27:29,800
Speaker 2: the face. Eventually, Well, I get to the area right

1557
01:27:29,840 --> 01:27:33,599
Speaker 2: around the back of the shoulders and and the hide

1558
01:27:33,840 --> 01:27:37,680
Speaker 2: just comes off. It separates right there, and.

1559
01:27:37,680 --> 01:27:40,560
Speaker 1: I look at home, like the hide fell into Yeah,

1560
01:27:41,000 --> 01:27:43,320
Speaker 1: and so I and came off the head. And so

1561
01:27:43,439 --> 01:27:45,920
Speaker 1: I'm I'm sitting there and and the high I'm not

1562
01:27:46,000 --> 01:27:48,639
Speaker 1: following me. So so I start looking.

1563
01:27:49,160 --> 01:27:51,680
Speaker 2: It's got this scar all the way around from a

1564
01:27:51,720 --> 01:27:55,280
Speaker 2: snare all to the bone. Yeah, from a stare from

1565
01:27:55,280 --> 01:27:58,320
Speaker 2: a snare it had gotten caught and it drew right

1566
01:27:58,360 --> 01:28:02,760
Speaker 2: down to bone and what and the snare had had

1567
01:28:03,600 --> 01:28:10,000
Speaker 2: eventually rusted away and dropped off, and yeah, it went

1568
01:28:10,479 --> 01:28:11,880
Speaker 2: right to bone all the way around.

1569
01:28:12,840 --> 01:28:13,719
Speaker 1: What crazy.

1570
01:28:14,920 --> 01:28:17,400
Speaker 2: It had to have carried that snare for a couple

1571
01:28:17,439 --> 01:28:22,240
Speaker 2: of years. But it was fine. Yeah, I mean like

1572
01:28:22,360 --> 01:28:25,040
Speaker 2: seemed to you fine. Well, I mean the hide never

1573
01:28:25,400 --> 01:28:30,080
Speaker 2: never bonded again. Right, but the animal like is up

1574
01:28:30,120 --> 01:28:35,360
Speaker 2: and about yeah yeah, way, Oh they're tougher in hell

1575
01:28:35,960 --> 01:28:40,360
Speaker 2: that the wolves are are outrageously tough. Yeah, if you

1576
01:28:40,680 --> 01:28:43,679
Speaker 2: catch one and with a foot. It's like a bomb

1577
01:28:43,760 --> 01:28:47,360
Speaker 2: went off. You know, there's moss hanging in trees, smaller

1578
01:28:47,400 --> 01:28:52,559
Speaker 2: trees or chewed down. It's uh, they're they're they're extraordinarily tough.

1579
01:28:52,840 --> 01:28:56,760
Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, a friend of mine had a he

1580
01:28:56,800 --> 01:28:59,640
Speaker 1: had spent some time with wolverine trappers, and tell me

1581
01:29:00,120 --> 01:29:03,040
Speaker 1: some observation this wolverine trapper shared with him is like

1582
01:29:04,240 --> 01:29:07,160
Speaker 1: and trap and you approach the animal, and the animal

1583
01:29:07,200 --> 01:29:09,720
Speaker 1: is always as far away as it can get on

1584
01:29:09,760 --> 01:29:12,200
Speaker 1: the chain. Yeah, you know, he's trying to go the

1585
01:29:12,240 --> 01:29:16,160
Speaker 1: other direction if his foot's caught, his legs out stretched

1586
01:29:16,160 --> 01:29:19,000
Speaker 1: and he's trying to get away. And this guy said,

1587
01:29:19,000 --> 01:29:24,200
Speaker 1: a wolverine, there's always the wolverine's always coming to you. Yeah.

1588
01:29:24,280 --> 01:29:25,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right.

1589
01:29:26,479 --> 01:29:30,640
Speaker 1: He's stretched in your direction trying to get at you. Yeah, huh.

1590
01:29:30,880 --> 01:29:34,760
Speaker 1: That's pretty crazy about that wolf though. Yeah, it just

1591
01:29:34,880 --> 01:29:38,200
Speaker 1: it wasn't like a fatality for him. Night didn't kill him.

1592
01:29:39,200 --> 01:29:42,920
Speaker 1: He survived it. We had a wolf researcher on the show,

1593
01:29:44,280 --> 01:29:47,000
Speaker 1: and there's like there's a real paucity of like level

1594
01:29:47,040 --> 01:29:50,200
Speaker 1: headed wolf researchers because they get it gets emotional for him,

1595
01:29:50,680 --> 01:29:55,960
Speaker 1: They lose their they lose their ability to see things clearly,

1596
01:29:56,280 --> 01:30:00,320
Speaker 1: especially the park, Like the park kind just becomes it

1597
01:30:00,360 --> 01:30:03,960
Speaker 1: comes too familial. They kind of become like celebrities, the

1598
01:30:04,000 --> 01:30:08,519
Speaker 1: people and the wolves. They don't see things clearly anymore.

1599
01:30:08,560 --> 01:30:11,759
Speaker 1: But this woman, Diane Boyd, see she's very clear headed.

1600
01:30:13,320 --> 01:30:17,879
Speaker 1: She's never lost her ability to look at things smartly.

1601
01:30:18,000 --> 01:30:22,720
Speaker 1: You know. She also she likes bird dogs a lot.

1602
01:30:23,120 --> 01:30:25,479
Speaker 1: She's a big bird hunter, so she raises bird dogs.

1603
01:30:25,840 --> 01:30:28,680
Speaker 1: And I was asking her how smart are like a

1604
01:30:28,760 --> 01:30:33,519
Speaker 1: wolf smart? Like what's their intelligence? And this is the

1605
01:30:33,560 --> 01:30:39,519
Speaker 1: woman loves dogs, and she said it's not comparable, like

1606
01:30:39,720 --> 01:30:47,679
Speaker 1: a domestic dog's intelligence can't compare. Well, they can't compare

1607
01:30:47,720 --> 01:30:50,519
Speaker 1: to a wolf. A wolf is like you know, I

1608
01:30:50,520 --> 01:30:53,200
Speaker 1: can't remember how she put it. Infinitely smarter than a

1609
01:30:53,240 --> 01:30:58,719
Speaker 1: dog than a domestic dog. Well, the sense of space, right.

1610
01:30:59,240 --> 01:31:02,640
Speaker 2: This goes back to Charles Darwin fitness, you know, the

1611
01:31:02,680 --> 01:31:06,280
Speaker 2: survival of the fittest. And wolves are on the chopping

1612
01:31:06,320 --> 01:31:11,679
Speaker 2: block every day every generation. Dogs we feed them, Yeah,

1613
01:31:11,720 --> 01:31:14,600
Speaker 2: we take care of them, and they're not on the

1614
01:31:14,640 --> 01:31:18,200
Speaker 2: chopping block. So I think she's probably right, yeah about that.

1615
01:31:18,320 --> 01:31:22,600
Speaker 2: You remember the unibomber, Yeah, I remember the story. Yeah,

1616
01:31:22,680 --> 01:31:23,760
Speaker 2: And his manifesto.

1617
01:31:28,960 --> 01:31:31,040
Speaker 1: When he's trying to talk about what happened to society,

1618
01:31:31,880 --> 01:31:34,280
Speaker 1: like when the UNI bomber is griping about where society

1619
01:31:34,320 --> 01:31:42,080
Speaker 1: went wrong, he's like survival. He grades Okay, he has

1620
01:31:42,120 --> 01:31:44,600
Speaker 1: this scoring system. It's like a zero to five or

1621
01:31:44,600 --> 01:31:48,280
Speaker 1: a one to five scoring system for difficulty, difficulty of

1622
01:31:48,280 --> 01:31:54,880
Speaker 1: a task, a one like level one difficulty. I think

1623
01:31:54,880 --> 01:31:57,960
Speaker 1: it's how he lays it out is that if you

1624
01:31:58,240 --> 01:32:03,960
Speaker 1: try your absolutely heart, you have a slight chance of

1625
01:32:04,000 --> 01:32:10,160
Speaker 1: success up to you don't even need to try it

1626
01:32:10,240 --> 01:32:16,400
Speaker 1: all and you'll succeed. Okay. His gripe with technology is

1627
01:32:16,439 --> 01:32:22,320
Speaker 1: that human existence has become a five. You don't need

1628
01:32:22,320 --> 01:32:24,400
Speaker 1: to do shit, you don't need to try it all.

1629
01:32:24,520 --> 01:32:28,240
Speaker 1: You're gonna survive. And that's where all of our neuroses

1630
01:32:28,240 --> 01:32:33,599
Speaker 1: come from. We have nothing to focus on, right, It's

1631
01:32:33,640 --> 01:32:35,799
Speaker 1: just it's all this like staying alive. It's just bullshit.

1632
01:32:35,800 --> 01:32:38,479
Speaker 1: It's like it just happens. So that's why we have

1633
01:32:38,520 --> 01:32:42,200
Speaker 1: all these psychological emotional issues because our main thing has

1634
01:32:42,240 --> 01:32:43,280
Speaker 1: been taken away from us.

1635
01:32:43,680 --> 01:32:48,759
Speaker 2: Well, Smiegeled he did have some problems.

1636
01:32:48,880 --> 01:32:51,320
Speaker 1: He had a five. He encountered a five. Yeah, but

1637
01:32:51,920 --> 01:32:56,799
Speaker 1: domestic dogs are in it. Humans and domestic dogs share

1638
01:32:56,960 --> 01:32:59,559
Speaker 1: our thing. Yeah, you don't need to try it all,

1639
01:33:00,080 --> 01:33:05,559
Speaker 1: you'll be fine. That's domestication, yeah, like us them. Yeah right,

1640
01:33:06,560 --> 01:33:10,120
Speaker 1: and you're right, a wolf man's that sucker. They're living

1641
01:33:10,160 --> 01:33:14,000
Speaker 1: their lives in the two Well, if you try really,

1642
01:33:14,040 --> 01:33:16,920
Speaker 1: really hard, you have a reasonable chance of success. Is

1643
01:33:16,960 --> 01:33:20,360
Speaker 1: where they're where they're at, you know, and it probably

1644
01:33:20,400 --> 01:33:22,320
Speaker 1: does drive a level of intelligence man.

1645
01:33:22,560 --> 01:33:28,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but you know, I think the in recent times,

1646
01:33:28,120 --> 01:33:29,920
Speaker 2: you know, when they're looking at how far back was

1647
01:33:29,920 --> 01:33:36,120
Speaker 2: it before we domesticated or became symbiotic with wolves. Yeah,

1648
01:33:36,280 --> 01:33:38,639
Speaker 2: probably ten fifteen thousand years ago. It was our first

1649
01:33:38,640 --> 01:33:42,960
Speaker 2: domestic right and one of the best, and for a

1650
01:33:43,000 --> 01:33:45,559
Speaker 2: lot of different reasons, because they did help us. You know,

1651
01:33:45,720 --> 01:33:49,080
Speaker 2: they could smell, they could bay a moose up, they

1652
01:33:49,120 --> 01:33:52,280
Speaker 2: could find the seal hole on the ice, you know.

1653
01:33:52,439 --> 01:33:54,479
Speaker 1: A lot of it. You hear as well. It's a

1654
01:33:54,520 --> 01:33:56,680
Speaker 1: good point as an early warning system.

1655
01:33:56,560 --> 01:33:58,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

1656
01:33:58,600 --> 01:34:01,000
Speaker 1: Like, imagine how much better you sleep knowing that anything

1657
01:34:01,000 --> 01:34:03,040
Speaker 1: comes near here? Those dogs are gonna go nuts.

1658
01:34:03,320 --> 01:34:06,200
Speaker 2: But it's over that period of time that we've kind

1659
01:34:06,240 --> 01:34:13,280
Speaker 2: of bred out the intense nervousness that the wolves have

1660
01:34:13,439 --> 01:34:18,120
Speaker 2: and and there was somebody up in central had caught

1661
01:34:18,160 --> 01:34:23,200
Speaker 2: a wolf and brought it into their dog yard. How

1662
01:34:23,240 --> 01:34:26,120
Speaker 2: they did it, I don't know, but it seemed that

1663
01:34:26,120 --> 01:34:29,040
Speaker 2: that would be a really fraught thing to try. And

1664
01:34:29,040 --> 01:34:33,400
Speaker 2: and they bred her with dogs, and the progeny the

1665
01:34:33,439 --> 01:34:42,439
Speaker 2: first the first group of pups that she had couldn't

1666
01:34:42,439 --> 01:34:46,599
Speaker 2: be handled. They weren't they You couldn't turn them into

1667
01:34:46,600 --> 01:34:50,000
Speaker 2: a sled dog, right, even though they were half dog

1668
01:34:50,600 --> 01:34:53,599
Speaker 2: and half wolf. And then they would breed those and

1669
01:34:53,640 --> 01:34:58,719
Speaker 2: they got the quarter wolves right off of the pup,

1670
01:34:59,240 --> 01:35:03,000
Speaker 2: you know. And and this guy Fred, he had one of

1671
01:35:03,080 --> 01:35:07,400
Speaker 2: those quarter wolf perhaps he called it Strider, and uh

1672
01:35:07,600 --> 01:35:07,800
Speaker 2: was he.

1673
01:35:07,840 --> 01:35:08,559
Speaker 1: A Tolkien fan?

1674
01:35:09,720 --> 01:35:12,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, all of us were really.

1675
01:35:12,640 --> 01:35:16,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we named Mountains guy because you guys had

1676
01:35:16,360 --> 01:35:17,000
Speaker 1: the books.

1677
01:35:17,240 --> 01:35:19,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, we were.

1678
01:35:19,800 --> 01:35:21,960
Speaker 1: We were all, oh, why are you guys all Tolkien fans?

1679
01:35:22,000 --> 01:35:25,439
Speaker 2: I don't know, it was it was that time of

1680
01:35:25,720 --> 01:35:29,840
Speaker 2: of the world, I guess, I don't know, but but yeah,

1681
01:35:29,880 --> 01:35:33,080
Speaker 2: we got I mean it was Tom Bombadilla was this

1682
01:35:33,200 --> 01:35:36,639
Speaker 2: guy that just to painting is uh, had a big

1683
01:35:36,680 --> 01:35:38,760
Speaker 2: garden that had that you know, the ends of his

1684
01:35:38,960 --> 01:35:40,439
Speaker 2: logs were painted red and.

1685
01:35:40,600 --> 01:35:42,920
Speaker 1: Various what he needs to do just real quick on

1686
01:35:42,960 --> 01:35:47,120
Speaker 1: this subject. This is like a sociological experiment. When I

1687
01:35:47,160 --> 01:35:49,120
Speaker 1: was in high school, there's a I had a teacher,

1688
01:35:49,840 --> 01:35:53,439
Speaker 1: a beloved, beloved man that kind of in some ways.

1689
01:35:54,920 --> 01:35:57,719
Speaker 1: His name was Bob Heaton. When I tell my story

1690
01:35:57,760 --> 01:36:03,599
Speaker 1: how I became a writer, Yeah, it's hit him. He's

1691
01:36:03,640 --> 01:36:06,479
Speaker 1: a major point in that narrative. Yeah, the first point.

1692
01:36:06,560 --> 01:36:10,200
Speaker 1: He's the first point. Yeah, in that narrative. He had

1693
01:36:10,200 --> 01:36:13,880
Speaker 1: a class you could take in high school called Modern Mythology.

1694
01:36:14,040 --> 01:36:16,599
Speaker 1: All you did is read Lord of the Rings. Yeah,

1695
01:36:16,600 --> 01:36:18,960
Speaker 1: it's a whole damn class. Yeah, you read Lord of

1696
01:36:18,960 --> 01:36:23,160
Speaker 1: the Rings. Yeah, and he taught it. But I wonder

1697
01:36:23,200 --> 01:36:26,599
Speaker 1: if you could go and do a thing about Lord

1698
01:36:26,600 --> 01:36:31,920
Speaker 1: of the Rings people, what their sort of moral perspective is,

1699
01:36:32,000 --> 01:36:34,400
Speaker 1: their work ethic and all that, Yeah, and compare them

1700
01:36:34,400 --> 01:36:38,200
Speaker 1: to Harry Potter people, like are they tougher? Like what

1701
01:36:38,400 --> 01:36:41,120
Speaker 1: you know? What I mean? Like Harry Potter spun off?

1702
01:36:41,640 --> 01:36:44,160
Speaker 1: What kind of person did that spin off? Yeah? And

1703
01:36:44,160 --> 01:36:47,160
Speaker 1: what kind of person did Lord of the Rings spin off? Yeah?

1704
01:36:47,360 --> 01:36:47,840
Speaker 1: I don't know.

1705
01:36:48,000 --> 01:36:51,360
Speaker 2: I mean my kids, my younger boy. Anyway, I read

1706
01:36:51,520 --> 01:36:54,080
Speaker 2: Harry Potter and loved it. I haven't read him.

1707
01:36:54,120 --> 01:36:57,920
Speaker 1: Is he tougher in you. Yeah he is. Yeah, you're lying.

1708
01:36:59,080 --> 01:37:04,519
Speaker 1: No I'm not. But but he works out. He works out,

1709
01:37:04,560 --> 01:37:06,080
Speaker 1: Oh that kind of tough. No talking about that kind

1710
01:37:06,120 --> 01:37:07,519
Speaker 1: of tough Yeah, talking about.

1711
01:37:07,360 --> 01:37:10,840
Speaker 2: It, girl, No, he's he's tough that way too. But

1712
01:37:10,840 --> 01:37:15,080
Speaker 2: but uh, I want to go back a step though.

1713
01:37:15,160 --> 01:37:16,800
Speaker 1: Sure, No, I got off on this whole Lord of

1714
01:37:16,840 --> 01:37:21,960
Speaker 1: the Rings thing. Why did I bring it up? Becaus

1715
01:37:22,000 --> 01:37:25,640
Speaker 1: his dog was Strider dog with Strider, So Strider.

1716
01:37:25,840 --> 01:37:30,920
Speaker 2: Was was super nervous about everything, and he would if

1717
01:37:30,920 --> 01:37:34,360
Speaker 2: he was inside the cabin with Bred and his other dog,

1718
01:37:34,600 --> 01:37:38,479
Speaker 2: I forget what her name was, but h but he

1719
01:37:38,520 --> 01:37:41,360
Speaker 2: would know that there was something going on outside way

1720
01:37:41,400 --> 01:37:44,040
Speaker 2: before anybody else, you know. And if there were neighbors

1721
01:37:44,200 --> 01:37:46,320
Speaker 2: came in. If we went to visit and he didn't

1722
01:37:46,360 --> 01:37:49,400
Speaker 2: have it on a chain, he couldn't catch it. It

1723
01:37:49,400 --> 01:37:52,799
Speaker 2: would go around in the in the shadows of the woods.

1724
01:37:52,800 --> 01:37:57,360
Speaker 2: You could see him, but he wouldn't come or anybody, right, yea.

1725
01:37:57,600 --> 01:38:01,000
Speaker 1: And in his whole life, his parents live were captivity.

1726
01:38:01,280 --> 01:38:04,800
Speaker 1: His life was captivity, but he still had that cageness.

1727
01:38:05,080 --> 01:38:08,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, he didn't lose it, and dogs lost it over

1728
01:38:09,080 --> 01:38:12,360
Speaker 2: ten thousand years, right, I mean the selected breeding of

1729
01:38:12,400 --> 01:38:15,200
Speaker 2: those that don't bite, that don't run away, that you know,

1730
01:38:16,880 --> 01:38:22,280
Speaker 2: are nice, are friendly to people, whatever. And one time,

1731
01:38:22,439 --> 01:38:25,240
Speaker 2: this guy your trap there reminds me of this time.

1732
01:38:25,920 --> 01:38:29,559
Speaker 2: There's this guy, Charlie, Charlie Edwards. He was up at

1733
01:38:29,760 --> 01:38:32,559
Speaker 2: Shade Creek, a little waist down eight or nine miles

1734
01:38:32,600 --> 01:38:34,720
Speaker 2: down from Eagle right, and he used to set a

1735
01:38:34,720 --> 01:38:38,240
Speaker 2: bear trap because the bears would come off of this

1736
01:38:38,400 --> 01:38:42,960
Speaker 2: McCann hill and Hilliard up Shade Creek where his cabin

1737
01:38:43,120 --> 01:38:45,559
Speaker 2: was at the mouth, and there was two little streams

1738
01:38:45,560 --> 01:38:47,439
Speaker 2: that came by, and he would set a bear trap

1739
01:38:47,880 --> 01:38:51,160
Speaker 2: at that spot every spring and sometimes get two or

1740
01:38:51,200 --> 01:38:52,080
Speaker 2: three bears.

1741
01:38:52,400 --> 01:38:54,360
Speaker 1: He just had one little pinch point where he knew

1742
01:38:54,400 --> 01:38:55,840
Speaker 1: a bear was gonna put his foot.

1743
01:38:55,960 --> 01:38:58,040
Speaker 2: And one time he caught him. He caught a wolf.

1744
01:38:59,200 --> 01:39:01,400
Speaker 2: It was a it was a female wolf. Can you

1745
01:39:01,439 --> 01:39:03,720
Speaker 2: explain the pinch point again? He's putting it where so

1746
01:39:04,000 --> 01:39:07,080
Speaker 2: so there's a baits, there's this set there's this bluff

1747
01:39:07,120 --> 01:39:09,760
Speaker 2: along the river and Shade Creek comes out about a

1748
01:39:09,800 --> 01:39:13,920
Speaker 2: quarter mile in. Two forks of Shade Creek come together

1749
01:39:14,240 --> 01:39:17,400
Speaker 2: and there's a ridge that comes down right which set

1750
01:39:17,439 --> 01:39:19,800
Speaker 2: it right there with those two streams came together.

1751
01:39:19,520 --> 01:39:21,080
Speaker 1: A trail set. It's a trail set.

1752
01:39:21,320 --> 01:39:24,599
Speaker 2: Well, it wasn't a trail set, it was a baited sets.

1753
01:39:25,280 --> 01:39:27,080
Speaker 1: I understand. I understand. Yeah.

1754
01:39:27,120 --> 01:39:30,439
Speaker 2: So he had this he had this big trap there

1755
01:39:31,080 --> 01:39:33,639
Speaker 2: and this wolf got caught, and it was a female.

1756
01:39:33,640 --> 01:39:37,680
Speaker 2: And he he Charlie was he's kind of spiritual, you know,

1757
01:39:37,760 --> 01:39:42,719
Speaker 2: and had all these visions of you know, moose giving

1758
01:39:42,800 --> 01:39:46,679
Speaker 2: themselves to us or whatever, you know. And and so

1759
01:39:46,720 --> 01:39:51,320
Speaker 2: he thinks this this wolf is sitting there looking off

1760
01:39:51,479 --> 01:39:55,240
Speaker 2: in one direction, and its foot is in the trap,

1761
01:39:55,479 --> 01:39:58,640
Speaker 2: and he comes walking up. Its ears moved, but it

1762
01:39:58,720 --> 01:40:02,120
Speaker 2: doesn't it does turn or growl or do anything. It's

1763
01:40:02,160 --> 01:40:07,560
Speaker 2: just sitting there freaking out, I'm sure. And he decides

1764
01:40:07,640 --> 01:40:11,160
Speaker 2: he's going to that he's got some connection with this

1765
01:40:11,280 --> 01:40:14,120
Speaker 2: wolf and he's going to try to capture it and

1766
01:40:14,160 --> 01:40:17,320
Speaker 2: take it back to his place, right, to keep it, yeah,

1767
01:40:17,720 --> 01:40:20,720
Speaker 2: to breed it with his dogs. He's thinking he might

1768
01:40:20,800 --> 01:40:27,040
Speaker 2: do that. And so he sits down to somehow commune

1769
01:40:27,040 --> 01:40:31,080
Speaker 2: with this wolf in back where he doesn't think that

1770
01:40:31,080 --> 01:40:34,439
Speaker 2: the wolf can get to him, right because its leg

1771
01:40:34,600 --> 01:40:38,439
Speaker 2: is out that way, heads out that way, And he

1772
01:40:38,479 --> 01:40:41,040
Speaker 2: sits there for a little while, and then he reaches

1773
01:40:41,080 --> 01:40:44,280
Speaker 2: out and touches it on the flank.

1774
01:40:44,600 --> 01:40:46,000
Speaker 1: Huh bam.

1775
01:40:46,080 --> 01:40:49,240
Speaker 2: That wolf goes, grabs him right by the hand and

1776
01:40:49,320 --> 01:40:52,360
Speaker 2: looks at him right in his eyes, and sort of

1777
01:40:53,040 --> 01:40:55,120
Speaker 2: it didn't crunch it the way it could.

1778
01:40:54,960 --> 01:40:57,800
Speaker 1: Have, but he bit.

1779
01:40:57,960 --> 01:41:00,479
Speaker 2: He puts some pressure on it a couple of different time times,

1780
01:41:00,960 --> 01:41:03,479
Speaker 2: looking at him right in the eye, and then let

1781
01:41:03,600 --> 01:41:06,719
Speaker 2: him go. What he thought, he thought he was gone,

1782
01:41:06,840 --> 01:41:09,000
Speaker 2: and the wolf could have killed him, could have called,

1783
01:41:09,080 --> 01:41:12,040
Speaker 2: could have killed him right there, didn't let him loose.

1784
01:41:12,560 --> 01:41:15,200
Speaker 2: So he's got some teeth marks, but he didn't crush

1785
01:41:15,200 --> 01:41:16,600
Speaker 2: his hand even though he could have.

1786
01:41:17,439 --> 01:41:20,000
Speaker 1: And and uh, and he.

1787
01:41:20,000 --> 01:41:24,519
Speaker 2: Was he was just about he was just totally totally

1788
01:41:24,560 --> 01:41:27,200
Speaker 2: wiped out at that point. He rolled away. He didn't

1789
01:41:27,200 --> 01:41:29,200
Speaker 2: feel he could shoot the wolf. But there's no way

1790
01:41:29,240 --> 01:41:32,760
Speaker 2: to let it go. Can't let it go, you know.

1791
01:41:32,800 --> 01:41:35,479
Speaker 2: It's not like you could just say, hey, wait a minute,

1792
01:41:35,520 --> 01:41:39,559
Speaker 2: himself really bit then, yeah, and so he he realized

1793
01:41:39,600 --> 01:41:41,760
Speaker 2: he had to kill it. And he walked back to

1794
01:41:41,840 --> 01:41:44,800
Speaker 2: his place though, and calmed down before he went back up.

1795
01:41:46,880 --> 01:41:49,439
Speaker 2: But you can't you can't get close enough to ever

1796
01:41:49,520 --> 01:41:50,680
Speaker 2: try to let it go.

1797
01:41:50,680 --> 01:41:51,840
Speaker 1: What was his takeaway? From that.

1798
01:41:53,920 --> 01:41:59,000
Speaker 2: Well, it didn't dissuade him of you know, his his

1799
01:41:59,120 --> 01:42:00,479
Speaker 2: spirituality type.

1800
01:42:00,960 --> 01:42:05,000
Speaker 1: You know, did he keep that trap set. I don't

1801
01:42:05,040 --> 01:42:06,840
Speaker 1: know if he kept that trap set.

1802
01:42:07,160 --> 01:42:10,240
Speaker 2: He had it set on the river one time when

1803
01:42:10,240 --> 01:42:13,559
Speaker 2: he moved down river from there, and uh, and we

1804
01:42:13,680 --> 01:42:16,120
Speaker 2: ran our dogs right past it and they didn't none

1805
01:42:16,120 --> 01:42:19,120
Speaker 2: of them went to it. But but we were pissed

1806
01:42:19,200 --> 01:42:21,960
Speaker 2: off that he had it set in a place that

1807
01:42:22,040 --> 01:42:24,720
Speaker 2: we would have our dogs because i'd kill a dog,

1808
01:42:24,840 --> 01:42:28,040
Speaker 2: you know, break their break their foot. But you know

1809
01:42:28,080 --> 01:42:33,520
Speaker 2: those big, big bear traps. But anyway, yeah, so so wolves,

1810
01:42:33,920 --> 01:42:39,120
Speaker 2: wolves and dogs actually have really strong bites because they've

1811
01:42:39,120 --> 01:42:42,400
Speaker 2: got a cranial ridge, you know, and so your your

1812
01:42:42,520 --> 01:42:47,880
Speaker 2: jaw muscles have more leverage than say a bear. They

1813
01:42:47,920 --> 01:42:52,679
Speaker 2: got smooth, sick smooth top of this. Yeah, and their

1814
01:42:52,880 --> 01:42:54,360
Speaker 2: jaws are not nearest tough.

1815
01:42:54,479 --> 01:42:57,280
Speaker 1: That cranial ridge on a skull that ties into bite strength.

1816
01:42:58,520 --> 01:43:04,639
Speaker 2: I didn't know that, yep, yep exactly. And our dogs

1817
01:43:06,000 --> 01:43:08,479
Speaker 2: killed a number of black bears over the years when

1818
01:43:08,479 --> 01:43:11,880
Speaker 2: they would catch them where there wasn't trees, because if

1819
01:43:11,920 --> 01:43:14,200
Speaker 2: they couldn't get up a tree, they couldn't defend themselves.

1820
01:43:14,680 --> 01:43:16,720
Speaker 1: And the dogs will take them down, take them down

1821
01:43:16,760 --> 01:43:18,280
Speaker 1: and kill them. Did you have a lot of dogs

1822
01:43:18,280 --> 01:43:19,000
Speaker 1: get killed doing that?

1823
01:43:19,400 --> 01:43:22,040
Speaker 2: None? None of them even got hurt.

1824
01:43:22,640 --> 01:43:24,679
Speaker 1: It's that easy for them. It's that easy.

1825
01:43:26,080 --> 01:43:28,439
Speaker 2: And I think that I think that any wolf pack

1826
01:43:28,520 --> 01:43:32,639
Speaker 2: would kill bears anytime they see him. Maybe because of size,

1827
01:43:32,680 --> 01:43:35,960
Speaker 2: they might shy away from some you know, like grizzlies,

1828
01:43:37,000 --> 01:43:42,000
Speaker 2: But I think that they wolves are the reason that

1829
01:43:42,439 --> 01:43:44,760
Speaker 2: black bears don't occur up on the North Slope or

1830
01:43:45,120 --> 01:43:50,240
Speaker 2: Seward Peninsula where that doesn't have trees, Yukon Delta, Alaska Peninsula.

1831
01:43:50,520 --> 01:43:54,719
Speaker 2: None of those places really have enough trees for black

1832
01:43:54,720 --> 01:43:59,360
Speaker 2: bears to go up. And I think that wolves kill

1833
01:43:59,400 --> 01:44:01,720
Speaker 2: them anytime they come across them, because our dogs did

1834
01:44:01,720 --> 01:44:04,880
Speaker 2: and they didn't have trouble killing him one time. First

1835
01:44:04,880 --> 01:44:07,800
Speaker 2: time that happened, I was with Little John and we

1836
01:44:07,920 --> 01:44:09,960
Speaker 2: tried to get the dogs to back off so we

1837
01:44:10,040 --> 01:44:12,120
Speaker 2: could kill the bear. Because what bears do is they

1838
01:44:12,200 --> 01:44:16,080
Speaker 2: lay on their back when once they're once the dogs

1839
01:44:16,120 --> 01:44:18,439
Speaker 2: grab them, they lay on their back and they try

1840
01:44:18,479 --> 01:44:23,799
Speaker 2: to to swipe at them with their claws and stuff,

1841
01:44:24,080 --> 01:44:27,040
Speaker 2: and they try to bite too, But the dogs don't

1842
01:44:27,040 --> 01:44:29,280
Speaker 2: seem to get hurt at all by it and they

1843
01:44:29,439 --> 01:44:35,320
Speaker 2: kind of turn them to the burger bloodshot pretty quickly.

1844
01:44:35,560 --> 01:44:38,120
Speaker 1: Yeah. How like if you did the autopsy on a

1845
01:44:38,120 --> 01:44:40,879
Speaker 1: bear that your dogs killed, what would the autopsy say.

1846
01:44:41,840 --> 01:44:44,800
Speaker 2: Well, they just got they got bite marks all over

1847
01:44:45,080 --> 01:44:47,040
Speaker 2: in their in their chest and their neck.

1848
01:44:47,320 --> 01:44:49,080
Speaker 1: But then they think to like they don't know enough

1849
01:44:49,080 --> 01:44:51,240
Speaker 1: to like crush the throat or something. They don't. They're

1850
01:44:51,280 --> 01:44:56,000
Speaker 1: not strategic, No, they're they They would you know, bite

1851
01:44:56,000 --> 01:44:57,960
Speaker 1: the inside of the back legs and the belly.

1852
01:44:58,840 --> 01:45:01,200
Speaker 2: When we would open them up, they'd be all bloodshot.

1853
01:45:01,560 --> 01:45:03,080
Speaker 3: It was uh yeah.

1854
01:45:02,920 --> 01:45:05,120
Speaker 1: It just doesn't seem like that it would add up enough.

1855
01:45:07,000 --> 01:45:11,439
Speaker 2: Well, they did it with black bears three times that

1856
01:45:11,560 --> 01:45:14,639
Speaker 2: I remember. I wonder if like the stress is also

1857
01:45:14,720 --> 01:45:19,080
Speaker 2: real bad. Oh, I imagine it's enormous. Yeah, it also

1858
01:45:19,200 --> 01:45:25,479
Speaker 2: leads to mortality. Yeah, they killed one grizzly. Your dogs

1859
01:45:25,560 --> 01:45:27,920
Speaker 2: killed a grizzly. Yeah, and that grizzy didn't get any

1860
01:45:27,920 --> 01:45:31,160
Speaker 2: of the dogs killed. Uh huh. I I think that

1861
01:45:31,640 --> 01:45:35,080
Speaker 2: it was Uh, it was a young grizzly And I

1862
01:45:35,120 --> 01:45:36,880
Speaker 2: think what happened is it broke its back.

1863
01:45:37,000 --> 01:45:38,440
Speaker 1: It had flopped.

1864
01:45:38,040 --> 01:45:40,000
Speaker 2: On its back on a rock as it was up

1865
01:45:40,040 --> 01:45:43,080
Speaker 2: in the sheep mountains and uh, and we saw the

1866
01:45:43,080 --> 01:45:47,120
Speaker 2: dogs chasing this bear over the over a little ridge

1867
01:45:47,360 --> 01:45:48,920
Speaker 2: and when we got up to the top, they were

1868
01:45:48,920 --> 01:45:50,599
Speaker 2: all just laying around next.

1869
01:45:50,400 --> 01:45:52,320
Speaker 1: To it and it was dead. These dogs are real

1870
01:45:52,360 --> 01:45:54,479
Speaker 1: menace man that.

1871
01:45:54,880 --> 01:45:59,519
Speaker 2: They're in body they're they're wolves. Yeah right, in mind

1872
01:45:59,560 --> 01:46:02,519
Speaker 2: they're not, but but in body they are. And because

1873
01:46:02,600 --> 01:46:05,479
Speaker 2: they they behaved kind of like a pack when they

1874
01:46:05,479 --> 01:46:07,559
Speaker 2: would encounter something, they're bold.

1875
01:46:07,800 --> 01:46:08,479
Speaker 1: They were bold.

1876
01:46:09,439 --> 01:46:13,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, what do you What's like, what's kind of

1877
01:46:13,960 --> 01:46:19,000
Speaker 4: the biggest lesson you took away from What's the biggest

1878
01:46:19,040 --> 01:46:20,719
Speaker 4: life lesson you took away from living.

1879
01:46:20,479 --> 01:46:22,160
Speaker 1: In the bush?

1880
01:46:24,000 --> 01:46:24,200
Speaker 3: Oh?

1881
01:46:24,320 --> 01:46:31,439
Speaker 1: God, like something you realized about people, you know, the

1882
01:46:31,640 --> 01:46:35,840
Speaker 1: his life lesson or like a valuable lesson, you know whatever. Yeah,

1883
01:46:35,960 --> 01:46:37,439
Speaker 1: I don't know what the hell difference in a valuable

1884
01:46:37,479 --> 01:46:39,400
Speaker 1: lesson in a life lesson is, But like, what's something

1885
01:46:39,400 --> 01:46:41,559
Speaker 1: you carried with you from it? I don't know.

1886
01:46:41,600 --> 01:46:47,080
Speaker 2: I I guess I always in doing that, I realized

1887
01:46:47,120 --> 01:46:50,320
Speaker 2: I can I can do anything. Okay, you know, I can,

1888
01:46:51,479 --> 01:46:56,160
Speaker 2: I can persevere, I can navigate whatever comes up.

1889
01:46:57,800 --> 01:46:58,200
Speaker 1: Mm hmm.

1890
01:47:00,280 --> 01:47:03,320
Speaker 2: I don't really know, but it was, you know that

1891
01:47:04,960 --> 01:47:09,200
Speaker 2: I look at for example, I look at the folks clustered,

1892
01:47:09,360 --> 01:47:13,640
Speaker 2: you know, homeless folks in town, And I say there

1893
01:47:13,680 --> 01:47:16,760
Speaker 2: were me, I'd be out the road. I'd be out

1894
01:47:16,800 --> 01:47:20,080
Speaker 2: on the river because I can make a living there. Yeah,

1895
01:47:20,240 --> 01:47:25,519
Speaker 2: town it's a lot harder. But I don't know, just thinking,

1896
01:47:26,240 --> 01:47:28,559
Speaker 2: I mean, I realized there's a lot of different reasons

1897
01:47:28,560 --> 01:47:32,679
Speaker 2: that people might be homeless, but and I wouldn't degrade

1898
01:47:32,680 --> 01:47:37,040
Speaker 2: that at all. But but for me, I really think,

1899
01:47:37,280 --> 01:47:40,800
Speaker 2: you know, being out on the country is a it's

1900
01:47:40,840 --> 01:47:45,280
Speaker 2: a neat place, and there's ways to go about feeding

1901
01:47:45,280 --> 01:47:45,880
Speaker 2: yourself there.

1902
01:47:46,520 --> 01:47:50,000
Speaker 1: What did you see? You had to have encountered guys

1903
01:47:50,800 --> 01:47:53,680
Speaker 1: in that time, You had to encountered guys that were

1904
01:47:53,720 --> 01:47:57,000
Speaker 1: going to go do it but just didn't work. Like

1905
01:47:57,080 --> 01:48:00,600
Speaker 1: it wasn't gonna work. Yeah, did you have would you

1906
01:48:00,680 --> 01:48:03,240
Speaker 1: be able to gauge when you met somebody? Would you

1907
01:48:03,280 --> 01:48:09,559
Speaker 1: be able to gauge off your own intuition you have

1908
01:48:09,800 --> 01:48:13,040
Speaker 1: what it takes you don't have what it takes, Like

1909
01:48:13,080 --> 01:48:17,800
Speaker 1: would you know someone has had it for trouble? I

1910
01:48:17,920 --> 01:48:21,320
Speaker 1: don't know that I would, at least not right away.

1911
01:48:21,720 --> 01:48:25,280
Speaker 1: You know, you have to get to know somebody. You realize,

1912
01:48:25,280 --> 01:48:27,920
Speaker 1: you know, these guys they need their motors, you know,

1913
01:48:28,760 --> 01:48:32,400
Speaker 1: and be able to move places really fast, and that's

1914
01:48:32,439 --> 01:48:36,639
Speaker 1: not something that we did. We didn't.

1915
01:48:37,000 --> 01:48:40,960
Speaker 2: So so by having motors, you need a lot of money, okay, right,

1916
01:48:41,120 --> 01:48:43,479
Speaker 2: I mean it's just the way it works. Snow machine

1917
01:48:44,000 --> 01:48:48,400
Speaker 2: or a big boat to go up and down the Yukon,

1918
01:48:50,560 --> 01:48:53,400
Speaker 2: and that's a lot of money is really not to

1919
01:48:53,439 --> 01:48:56,920
Speaker 2: be had out in the woods. At least it certainly

1920
01:48:57,000 --> 01:49:00,639
Speaker 2: wasn't for us. Even if you have a good year

1921
01:49:00,720 --> 01:49:02,599
Speaker 2: trapp and you're not going to buy a snow machine

1922
01:49:02,680 --> 01:49:04,400
Speaker 2: and spend it on that, you know.

1923
01:49:05,200 --> 01:49:08,120
Speaker 1: So you would view reliance on motors at that time,

1924
01:49:08,280 --> 01:49:10,960
Speaker 1: reliance on motors, what was a deficit?

1925
01:49:12,080 --> 01:49:14,280
Speaker 2: Well, I mean I felt it was. I mean I

1926
01:49:14,320 --> 01:49:16,120
Speaker 2: didn't want to go to get the job.

1927
01:49:16,160 --> 01:49:16,320
Speaker 1: You know.

1928
01:49:16,320 --> 01:49:18,040
Speaker 2: There were a lot of people that went worked up

1929
01:49:18,040 --> 01:49:20,760
Speaker 2: on the pipeline, you know, and that was happening back

1930
01:49:20,800 --> 01:49:23,400
Speaker 2: in that period of time, and it was good wages

1931
01:49:23,400 --> 01:49:27,840
Speaker 2: and everything, but they that's where they lived, you know, they.

1932
01:49:27,680 --> 01:49:29,760
Speaker 1: Were, and you never you were never drawn to that.

1933
01:49:30,080 --> 01:49:30,639
Speaker 2: I wasn't.

1934
01:49:31,040 --> 01:49:34,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, were you running into guys at that time? Were

1935
01:49:34,960 --> 01:49:39,680
Speaker 1: there guys coming out of Vietnam coming coming home and

1936
01:49:39,720 --> 01:49:43,760
Speaker 1: going into the bush. Were you encountering that. No.

1937
01:49:45,040 --> 01:49:49,360
Speaker 2: I think out there were two to the to the

1938
01:49:49,400 --> 01:49:53,479
Speaker 2: communities there like Eagle and H and Circle, you know,

1939
01:49:53,640 --> 01:49:55,200
Speaker 2: Tann and on and like.

1940
01:49:55,320 --> 01:49:58,200
Speaker 1: Returning veterans were going into those communities to live, but

1941
01:49:58,240 --> 01:50:00,200
Speaker 1: you weren't seeing them off living off the land out

1942
01:50:00,200 --> 01:50:00,759
Speaker 1: in the bush.

1943
01:50:00,880 --> 01:50:06,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know if you there. Definitely was that happening.

1944
01:50:06,479 --> 01:50:08,840
Speaker 2: I don't know whether it was a movement or state,

1945
01:50:08,920 --> 01:50:13,160
Speaker 2: but it was. There were some people that were ex Vietnam.

1946
01:50:14,240 --> 01:50:17,920
Speaker 1: Your circle, guys, what was the commonality if you had

1947
01:50:17,920 --> 01:50:21,960
Speaker 1: to think of one in your circle of folks and

1948
01:50:22,000 --> 01:50:24,120
Speaker 1: you're when you say, because you often use the term we,

1949
01:50:24,120 --> 01:50:26,280
Speaker 1: we would do this, we would do that. Yeah, in

1950
01:50:26,320 --> 01:50:29,640
Speaker 1: your circle folks, what were they? What was pushing them,

1951
01:50:30,040 --> 01:50:32,240
Speaker 1: what was pulling them? What was pushing them? Where were

1952
01:50:32,240 --> 01:50:32,880
Speaker 1: they coming from?

1953
01:50:33,200 --> 01:50:36,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know a lot of it was just back

1954
01:50:36,040 --> 01:50:41,719
Speaker 2: to the land type, you know, adventure, going out and trapping,

1955
01:50:42,960 --> 01:50:48,200
Speaker 2: living in the woods. I think they liked what I did,

1956
01:50:48,240 --> 01:50:51,640
Speaker 2: which was the ability to go out and get my

1957
01:50:51,680 --> 01:50:55,920
Speaker 2: own food, and I did a lot of tanning.

1958
01:50:57,000 --> 01:50:57,120
Speaker 1: Uh.

1959
01:50:57,600 --> 01:51:01,160
Speaker 2: I sewed my own clothes the winter closed way. I

1960
01:51:01,240 --> 01:51:04,880
Speaker 2: tried leather for the summer and it didn't work so well,

1961
01:51:05,920 --> 01:51:10,240
Speaker 2: it just got wet because he's always gonna rain. At

1962
01:51:10,240 --> 01:51:12,760
Speaker 2: some point you're going to walk through bushes and have

1963
01:51:12,920 --> 01:51:18,760
Speaker 2: your leather pants soaking wet. Yeah, I don't know. I

1964
01:51:18,840 --> 01:51:26,240
Speaker 2: liked the idea of building things out what's there. Yeah, yeah,

1965
01:51:26,760 --> 01:51:29,840
Speaker 2: and being able to feed myself. I mean, there were

1966
01:51:29,880 --> 01:51:33,040
Speaker 2: things that we were buying from town, you know, the rifle,

1967
01:51:34,439 --> 01:51:40,520
Speaker 2: gilnet plastic eventually for the bottom of the of the toboggan,

1968
01:51:40,720 --> 01:51:44,479
Speaker 2: you know, so it slid better than just straight birch boards,

1969
01:51:44,680 --> 01:51:46,760
Speaker 2: which is what I used for a few years to

1970
01:51:46,800 --> 01:51:53,000
Speaker 2: start with. Yeah, aluminum canoe, you know. Yeah, there were

1971
01:51:53,040 --> 01:51:55,800
Speaker 2: a lot of things that we probably weren't. We weren't

1972
01:51:55,840 --> 01:52:02,439
Speaker 2: in any way like you know previous times with the

1973
01:52:02,720 --> 01:52:08,640
Speaker 2: Native folks there's they truly made everything and worked it

1974
01:52:08,680 --> 01:52:13,160
Speaker 2: and it was pretty great. So one thing that happened

1975
01:52:13,200 --> 01:52:15,920
Speaker 2: when I was down in Chivac. I mentioned Chivac. I

1976
01:52:15,960 --> 01:52:19,200
Speaker 2: think when Karen was teaching. We had gone out to

1977
01:52:19,240 --> 01:52:23,280
Speaker 2: there on the Yukon Delta, right, And I remember one

1978
01:52:23,320 --> 01:52:26,320
Speaker 2: time when I was going downstream, I had fixed this

1979
01:52:26,360 --> 01:52:30,320
Speaker 2: old double end canoe, who's a fiberglass canoe, and this

1980
01:52:30,400 --> 01:52:35,519
Speaker 2: one woman there let me use it because I patched

1981
01:52:35,520 --> 01:52:39,360
Speaker 2: it up for and I would would take the tide

1982
01:52:39,360 --> 01:52:44,040
Speaker 2: out from this river and hunt ducks and things. And

1983
01:52:44,120 --> 01:52:48,240
Speaker 2: I had a gillnet in for some fish. And one

1984
01:52:48,280 --> 01:52:50,280
Speaker 2: time when I was down there, I don't know, ten

1985
01:52:50,360 --> 01:52:54,920
Speaker 2: fifteen miles away from Chivac, I started coming back in

1986
01:52:54,960 --> 01:52:59,160
Speaker 2: with the tide and this old man waves me down

1987
01:52:59,600 --> 01:53:03,000
Speaker 2: and uh I pulled over and and uh I wanted

1988
01:53:03,040 --> 01:53:06,080
Speaker 2: to ride, I said, jump in. He had all skin

1989
01:53:06,960 --> 01:53:11,240
Speaker 2: clothes and he had these hip boots that were made

1990
01:53:11,240 --> 01:53:16,679
Speaker 2: out of sealskins and sewed with this grass in the thread.

1991
01:53:17,040 --> 01:53:20,960
Speaker 2: It was it was it was. It was some sort

1992
01:53:21,000 --> 01:53:25,080
Speaker 2: of sinew thread. But they would put in a blade

1993
01:53:25,080 --> 01:53:29,120
Speaker 2: of grass with it and that would my understanding was

1994
01:53:29,160 --> 01:53:32,320
Speaker 2: that that would swell when it got wet and help to.

1995
01:53:32,400 --> 01:53:35,560
Speaker 1: Really seal it. Yeah, it was outrageous.

1996
01:53:35,640 --> 01:53:38,880
Speaker 2: And he just sat there with his feet in the

1997
01:53:39,120 --> 01:53:41,840
Speaker 2: in the water, just like me with my rubber hip boot.

1998
01:53:41,880 --> 01:53:45,760
Speaker 1: Guy had you out bad assed totally totally. Yeah, No,

1999
01:53:45,880 --> 01:53:47,400
Speaker 1: it was great. It was cool to see.

2000
01:53:47,600 --> 01:53:49,719
Speaker 2: And so I mean we did that sort of stuff

2001
01:53:49,760 --> 01:53:54,320
Speaker 2: with the with the you know, tanning hides and sewing

2002
01:53:54,320 --> 01:53:58,000
Speaker 2: clothes with them and various things, but not like.

2003
01:53:57,920 --> 01:53:59,880
Speaker 1: That you know, I was talking in the beginning of

2004
01:53:59,880 --> 01:54:04,479
Speaker 1: the show that's talking about these American history things are

2005
01:54:04,520 --> 01:54:07,280
Speaker 1: doing one on Daniel Boone and the long hunters, then

2006
01:54:07,400 --> 01:54:09,920
Speaker 1: the mountain the mountain men like Jim Bridger, and then

2007
01:54:09,960 --> 01:54:15,080
Speaker 1: the buffalo hide hunters. Yeah. So it's funny because those

2008
01:54:15,080 --> 01:54:17,320
Speaker 1: buffalo hide hunters are one hundred years before you were

2009
01:54:17,360 --> 01:54:19,280
Speaker 1: living in the bush like they were. The sort of

2010
01:54:19,360 --> 01:54:24,200
Speaker 1: peak hide hunt was eighteen seventy four and you were around,

2011
01:54:24,320 --> 01:54:28,000
Speaker 1: you know, century later. But one of the observations we

2012
01:54:28,080 --> 01:54:31,720
Speaker 1: have in that hide Hunters piece we got coming out

2013
01:54:32,960 --> 01:54:36,960
Speaker 1: is that the long hunters, the Boone and the long hunters,

2014
01:54:37,440 --> 01:54:40,320
Speaker 1: Jim Bridge and the mountain men, those guys lived off

2015
01:54:40,320 --> 01:54:45,320
Speaker 1: the land. Okay. They could produce their own clothes, source

2016
01:54:45,400 --> 01:54:48,760
Speaker 1: their own food. It was the part of the whole plan, right,

2017
01:54:49,040 --> 01:54:51,320
Speaker 1: The part of the whole mountain man plan is that

2018
01:54:51,320 --> 01:54:53,520
Speaker 1: you're going to have to source your food there. It

2019
01:54:53,560 --> 01:54:56,960
Speaker 1: was baked into the system. Boone, They'd sourced their own clothes,

2020
01:54:57,000 --> 01:55:03,320
Speaker 1: their own shoes, everything. In a pinch, they could make gunpowder, okay.

2021
01:55:04,320 --> 01:55:09,080
Speaker 1: The hide hunters by eighteen by by eighteen seventy, the

2022
01:55:09,200 --> 01:55:14,240
Speaker 1: hide hunters were they were these firs, this first breed

2023
01:55:14,400 --> 01:55:19,080
Speaker 1: of market hunter. That they didn't live off the land.

2024
01:55:20,120 --> 01:55:25,080
Speaker 1: They had wagons, they carried bacon, they carried flour, They

2025
01:55:25,240 --> 01:55:27,680
Speaker 1: ate enormous amounts of buffalo meat. But they didn't make

2026
01:55:27,720 --> 01:55:31,360
Speaker 1: clothes like they they These were guys that would write

2027
01:55:31,480 --> 01:55:37,320
Speaker 1: letters and order shit, right, and it's and so it's

2028
01:55:37,360 --> 01:55:41,760
Speaker 1: like they looked they would if you saw, they would

2029
01:55:41,760 --> 01:55:45,840
Speaker 1: have looked like gunfighters in their attire. Right. They were

2030
01:55:45,880 --> 01:55:48,720
Speaker 1: no at that point, eighteen seventy, they're no longer living

2031
01:55:48,760 --> 01:55:53,000
Speaker 1: off the land. You feeding yourself, yeah, some, but you're

2032
01:55:53,040 --> 01:55:57,720
Speaker 1: not responsible for all that anymore. Maybe that's why they

2033
01:55:57,720 --> 01:56:01,600
Speaker 1: were more effective killers. There's no time like they lived

2034
01:56:01,600 --> 01:56:04,800
Speaker 1: in tents man. Yeah, that had access to canvas tents

2035
01:56:04,920 --> 01:56:09,040
Speaker 1: that wagons they had to reload, ammo. But they wore cotton,

2036
01:56:09,120 --> 01:56:13,680
Speaker 1: they were wool that were linen. Didn't make tools, just

2037
01:56:13,720 --> 01:56:19,160
Speaker 1: bought tools, carried extras of everything. You know, it was

2038
01:56:19,160 --> 01:56:21,760
Speaker 1: a century before your time though. Yeah, So the fact

2039
01:56:21,760 --> 01:56:23,720
Speaker 1: that the century later you were still doing what you

2040
01:56:23,760 --> 01:56:24,680
Speaker 1: did is remarkable.

2041
01:56:25,120 --> 01:56:28,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you couldn't really do it in lower forty

2042
01:56:28,120 --> 01:56:31,760
Speaker 2: eight you sort of couldn't land in jail. Yeah, you

2043
01:56:31,880 --> 01:56:35,400
Speaker 2: get chased away. Eventually there were people in the mountains

2044
01:56:35,400 --> 01:56:38,040
Speaker 2: in northern New Mexico who would live in some of

2045
01:56:38,080 --> 01:56:41,640
Speaker 2: the caves and do gardens and things. But they were

2046
01:56:41,440 --> 01:56:44,680
Speaker 2: the foresters, as I understand it, would go and chase

2047
01:56:44,720 --> 01:56:47,640
Speaker 2: them away every few years so that they didn't have

2048
01:56:47,680 --> 01:56:51,600
Speaker 2: the adverse possession thing. In Alaska, the adverse possession was

2049
01:56:53,800 --> 01:56:57,280
Speaker 2: they made it so that it didn't apply because it

2050
01:56:57,320 --> 01:57:02,960
Speaker 2: was such huge land masses that they couldn't afford to.

2051
01:57:02,480 --> 01:57:07,120
Speaker 1: Keep track of them all. And so it never was

2052
01:57:07,160 --> 01:57:07,680
Speaker 1: an issue.

2053
01:57:07,680 --> 01:57:12,200
Speaker 2: And we didn't we didn't own property either out there,

2054
01:57:12,400 --> 01:57:15,960
Speaker 2: you know, some some I mean it was in that

2055
01:57:16,000 --> 01:57:19,440
Speaker 2: transition period, you know, and you know that the Native

2056
01:57:19,440 --> 01:57:23,080
Speaker 2: Clayton settlement had gone on, and there were there were

2057
01:57:24,120 --> 01:57:27,400
Speaker 2: you know, a lot of the time was uh well

2058
01:57:27,440 --> 01:57:30,720
Speaker 2: some of the time was before a nilka. But even then,

2059
01:57:30,800 --> 01:57:36,560
Speaker 2: you know, nobody knew what land would become, what ownership yep,

2060
01:57:36,840 --> 01:57:38,040
Speaker 2: for quite a while.

2061
01:57:38,800 --> 01:57:40,840
Speaker 1: There's places you can still make a pretty good goal

2062
01:57:40,880 --> 01:57:44,280
Speaker 1: of it. You could, because uh you got all the

2063
01:57:44,320 --> 01:57:49,480
Speaker 1: non game squirrel, porcupine stuff like that, very long waterfowl seasons. Yeah,

2064
01:57:49,720 --> 01:57:53,440
Speaker 1: like you know, extended camping periods like this place is

2065
01:57:53,440 --> 01:57:56,640
Speaker 1: in the Canoe just Rod and reel. You're not gonna

2066
01:57:56,680 --> 01:57:58,680
Speaker 1: be on net. But like, there's places you could make

2067
01:57:58,680 --> 01:58:02,880
Speaker 1: a go of it, for sure, if someone had the audacity.

2068
01:58:03,200 --> 01:58:03,720
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2069
01:58:04,040 --> 01:58:07,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, it'd be easy in the summer and easy if

2070
01:58:07,400 --> 01:58:11,920
Speaker 2: you moved pretty regular. Yeah, there's nothing stopping you doing that.

2071
01:58:12,640 --> 01:58:17,640
Speaker 2: But there's a few private landholdings that somebody could pick

2072
01:58:17,720 --> 01:58:20,360
Speaker 2: up and then make a go of it, you know,

2073
01:58:20,400 --> 01:58:22,960
Speaker 2: so that you couldn't get so you could build something

2074
01:58:23,000 --> 01:58:23,440
Speaker 2: that was.

2075
01:58:23,600 --> 01:58:24,720
Speaker 1: Ann one can run you off.

2076
01:58:24,840 --> 01:58:25,240
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2077
01:58:25,520 --> 01:58:28,280
Speaker 1: Well yeah, well man, I gotta get But man, I'm

2078
01:58:28,320 --> 01:58:30,040
Speaker 1: so glad you came back. I had a lot of

2079
01:58:30,080 --> 01:58:32,160
Speaker 1: these questions I needed to clarify. Yeah.

2080
01:58:32,560 --> 01:58:34,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, we didn't get to fish though.

2081
01:58:34,960 --> 01:58:37,960
Speaker 1: I know next time, next time you come on, we're

2082
01:58:37,960 --> 01:58:41,880
Speaker 1: gonna just talk about fish research, okay, Like just to

2083
01:58:41,880 --> 01:58:44,280
Speaker 1: titillate people ahead of time, I'm gonna tell them how

2084
01:58:44,320 --> 01:58:47,640
Speaker 1: you can tell one. Uh well, the whole thing was salmon,

2085
01:58:47,720 --> 01:58:51,040
Speaker 1: sharks and salmon. Yeah, that's interesting. Well to do that.

2086
01:58:51,040 --> 01:58:53,760
Speaker 1: We're gonna do the fish episode next. It'll be a

2087
01:58:53,760 --> 01:58:57,280
Speaker 1: three part okay, and next time we're not gonna do

2088
01:58:57,320 --> 01:59:00,160
Speaker 1: any recap on John the Baptist. There you go. We're

2089
01:59:00,160 --> 01:59:04,760
Speaker 1: gonna dive right into fish. Yeah, fish research. Because just

2090
01:59:04,800 --> 01:59:09,600
Speaker 1: to just to remind folks in preparation for Randy's next visit,

2091
01:59:10,480 --> 01:59:15,560
Speaker 1: when he quit the Bush, you became like a full

2092
01:59:15,600 --> 01:59:22,040
Speaker 1: on fish researcher, a fish biologist. That's right, your second life,

2093
01:59:22,320 --> 01:59:22,640
Speaker 1: I know.

2094
01:59:24,000 --> 01:59:25,760
Speaker 2: And that's been really rewarding too.

2095
01:59:25,880 --> 01:59:27,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, all.

2096
01:59:27,720 --> 01:59:31,920
Speaker 1: Right, next time I'm serious, all right, the next time

2097
01:59:31,960 --> 01:59:34,640
Speaker 1: is the fish episode. The final episode of the Fish episode.

2098
01:59:34,640 --> 01:59:36,800
Speaker 1: It'll be like how many how many installments are there

2099
01:59:36,800 --> 01:59:39,960
Speaker 1: in Lord of the Rings? Three? Well, there's the Hobbit,

2100
01:59:40,560 --> 01:59:44,800
Speaker 1: and I don't count the salmarillion. Yeah, not counting the Hobbit.

2101
01:59:45,920 --> 01:59:47,800
Speaker 1: It's a three pack. Or we'll go back in time

2102
01:59:47,800 --> 01:59:48,680
Speaker 1: and hit the Hobbit later.

2103
01:59:49,400 --> 01:59:52,560
Speaker 2: One last thing on uh please, on the Lord of

2104
01:59:52,600 --> 01:59:55,160
Speaker 2: the Rings. So when we were when we were living out,

2105
01:59:55,200 --> 01:59:57,360
Speaker 2: it was there was a time when we felt like

2106
01:59:57,400 --> 01:59:58,440
Speaker 2: we were the good guys.

2107
01:59:58,600 --> 02:00:01,720
Speaker 1: You know, we were we were the Fellowship.

2108
02:00:02,080 --> 02:00:05,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, we were, we were. We were fine, right, and

2109
02:00:05,480 --> 02:00:08,640
Speaker 2: then we started reading these uh, these passages and the

2110
02:00:08,680 --> 02:00:11,880
Speaker 2: Lord of the Rings, you know, with with what was it,

2111
02:00:12,000 --> 02:00:16,040
Speaker 2: the uh, the Orcs or something with with these areas

2112
02:00:16,040 --> 02:00:19,080
Speaker 2: where they're just all these dead bones from things that

2113
02:00:19,120 --> 02:00:22,000
Speaker 2: they'd eaten and we start looking around and we go, well,

2114
02:00:22,080 --> 02:00:26,120
Speaker 2: that that looks more like us than anything else. But

2115
02:00:26,240 --> 02:00:28,120
Speaker 2: it was true, you know, because you can't get rid

2116
02:00:28,160 --> 02:00:29,760
Speaker 2: of the bones. They're always going to be there, and

2117
02:00:29,840 --> 02:00:32,320
Speaker 2: dogs to them, you know, they're there.

2118
02:00:32,480 --> 02:00:36,200
Speaker 1: That's a part about uh, that's a part about death

2119
02:00:36,240 --> 02:00:40,160
Speaker 1: and the barons. Yeah, as they're dying, they get to

2120
02:00:40,320 --> 02:00:42,840
Speaker 1: digging out all their old bones and trying to boil

2121
02:00:42,880 --> 02:00:44,760
Speaker 1: them and all that, and let that left more for

2122
02:00:44,880 --> 02:00:46,800
Speaker 1: trouble for them. Yeah. You know what I did after

2123
02:00:46,800 --> 02:00:48,360
Speaker 1: reading that book, so I was curious about it. I

2124
02:00:48,360 --> 02:00:50,680
Speaker 1: took some raw hide and boiled and ate it, did

2125
02:00:50,720 --> 02:00:54,440
Speaker 1: you yeah, hair and all. No, no, no, I was

2126
02:00:54,520 --> 02:00:56,880
Speaker 1: boiled the raw hide, boiled and boiled and boiled it

2127
02:00:56,960 --> 02:00:59,600
Speaker 1: till it turned into like a gelatin Yeah. I didn't

2128
02:00:59,600 --> 02:01:01,440
Speaker 1: need to know to clog my uh you know, I

2129
02:01:01,440 --> 02:01:03,320
Speaker 1: didn't have to have the missus do an animal on me.

2130
02:01:03,680 --> 02:01:07,840
Speaker 1: But yeah, I had a couple a couple of strips

2131
02:01:07,880 --> 02:01:09,960
Speaker 1: just to see. It kind of had a like a

2132
02:01:10,840 --> 02:01:14,680
Speaker 1: it had like a noodlee, like a very gelatinous noodley

2133
02:01:14,840 --> 02:01:18,760
Speaker 1: quality to it. But I didn't eat enough to die

2134
02:01:18,840 --> 02:01:23,280
Speaker 1: or anything, you know, as evidenced by my presence. Yeah,

2135
02:01:23,400 --> 02:01:25,920
Speaker 1: all right, dude, I gotta run, okay, all right, next

2136
02:01:25,960 --> 02:01:28,400
Speaker 1: time Fish, Thanks for having me. Thank you man.