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Speaker 2: You have a very interesting story and we was reading it,
Speaker 2: you know, the last couple of days. So you said
Speaker 2: your first contract, correct me if I'm wrong, you made
Speaker 2: your contract with one point two million.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well say now you had like thirty five forty thousand, yeah,
Speaker 2: So yeah, can we just kind of break that down
Speaker 2: because to me, it's interesting as far as like NFL players,
Speaker 2: because you have an off season, so a lot of
Speaker 2: people don't aren't familiar, like do you get paid on
Speaker 2: the off season or how frequent do you get paid,
Speaker 2: And then there's a thing called the jock tax where
Speaker 2: you go to different states and get taxed differently.
Speaker 4: It's not all guaranteed. So yeah, can you kind of
Speaker 4: just break that down?
Speaker 3: Yeah, man, it's layers to that, layers. So yeah, So
Speaker 3: the way I think of the NFL is nothing is
Speaker 3: guaranteed unless you have certain stipulations within your contract and
Speaker 3: all that type of stuff. Right, So if you're one
Speaker 3: of those players, which is you know, more players are
Speaker 3: seeing that, that's a great thing and a blessing to have.
Speaker 3: But when you see these big contracts, you know, Russell
Speaker 3: Wilson one hundred and forty million, I can't remember how
Speaker 3: much guaranteed, maybe sixty five, yeah, something sixty quarunteed, right,
Speaker 3: that's what he can bank on. Right, you see the
Speaker 3: big number. But but if Russell Wilson gets hurt in
Speaker 3: year four, year five, whatever, right, he's not seeing the
Speaker 3: rest of that money potentially. So that's different from basketball.
Speaker 3: That's different from baseball and others sports. So as I
Speaker 3: entered the league in twenty thirteen, I was undrafted out
Speaker 3: of University of Pennsylvania. I remember the Baltimore. Ravens called
Speaker 3: me my hometown team. I'm like, man, Actually, to be
Speaker 3: quite honest with you, I was pissed off, right, Not
Speaker 3: because I was pissed off that I didn't get drafted.
Speaker 3: That was really what it was, right, and it just
Speaker 3: had a big chip on my shoulder. So for me,
Speaker 3: I've been fortunate to just have this lens on life
Speaker 3: and perspective where I'm not really a fan of too
Speaker 3: much or anyone. So I remember, as a rookie enter
Speaker 3: in the locker room, and this is my hometown team.
Speaker 3: These are the guys I looked up to growing up,
Speaker 3: and I remember this is fresh off of Super Bowl,
Speaker 3: fresh off of Super Bowl. I remember, actually, you know
Speaker 3: what a perfect story that might describe me. As my
Speaker 3: agent at the time, he took us out right before
Speaker 3: the draft, took us out in New York to some
Speaker 3: club up there to just celebrate that night before the
Speaker 3: draft of like all the work you put it in
Speaker 3: and all that type of stuff. And I remember, you know,
Speaker 3: like I said, I grew up in Baltimore, that purple
Speaker 3: and black, you know. I remember being in the house
Speaker 3: and seeing them, you know, win the Super Bowl and
Speaker 3: bragging all my roommates and all that type of stuff.
Speaker 3: Wearing that with pride and in the club. That for
Speaker 3: me was like my introduction to the NFL, even though
Speaker 3: I wasn't even in it at the time. But you
Speaker 3: had all of these different That was when the draft
Speaker 3: was still in New York, so you had all these
Speaker 3: different rappers and in different sections. My agent had gotten
Speaker 3: us a section. I wasn't spending anywhere. My agent got
Speaker 3: us a section. And the other guys there when you
Speaker 3: had Adrian Peterson with a section, Ludacris across the way
Speaker 3: g Z and there was ray Rice, and I remember
Speaker 3: Ray Rice walked up and I remember speaking to him
Speaker 3: and I'm like, yo, I just want to say, you know,
Speaker 3: you really put on for the city. That was amazing
Speaker 3: what y'all did. Man, Like, I appreciate you, respect you.
Speaker 3: But a couple of days like I'm gonna be in
Speaker 3: the NFL too.
Speaker 5: So.
Speaker 3: I ain't none of that fans stuff in the war right,
Speaker 3: like we competition, right, But before that, I want to
Speaker 3: tell you how much I respect you. So anyway, I
Speaker 3: say all that to say a few days later, I
Speaker 3: get get the call go to the Ravens. Had that
Speaker 3: chip on my shoulder. But the weird thing about the
Speaker 3: NFL is, like I said, I keep it. I've been
Speaker 3: blessed to be able to keep things in a perspective
Speaker 3: and understand that, Okay, I just got this call that says, hey,
Speaker 3: you're get a chance to sign up and you're a
Speaker 3: Baltimore Raven. Now no, I'm not right, Like, there's still
Speaker 3: another step to actually make the fifty three or make
Speaker 3: practice squad whatever.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 3: Sadly, there's a lot of guys who are like, oh,
Speaker 3: I'm in it. No, right, Like next week you might
Speaker 3: be cut or after this rookie mini camp you might
Speaker 3: be cut.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 3: So at that time, again, like I said, I signed
Speaker 3: a three year, one point two million dollar deal. However
Speaker 3: I got cut going into the actual season, made it
Speaker 3: all through preseason and all that stuff, got cut going
Speaker 3: into the actual season, and that jumped my money down
Speaker 3: to a practice squad guy. After four weeks, I got
Speaker 3: cut from Baltimore, so I really got four weeks of pay.
Speaker 3: And then again, I mean there were guys who got
Speaker 3: cut in the middle of training camp. There's guys who
Speaker 3: got cut after three days.
Speaker 6: So that there's a process after you get drafted, right,
Speaker 6: because that's even a little confusing.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 6: There's OTA's that you have to make the team, yep.
Speaker 6: Then there is training camp that you have to make
Speaker 6: the team. Then you got four preseason game yeah, and
Speaker 6: so trying to make the team.
Speaker 3: Right. So the way I would think of it is
Speaker 3: you're never really on the team. You know, depending on
Speaker 3: who you are, you're never really on the team. Like
Speaker 3: I even joke with my students this semester and even
Speaker 3: right right now, like I could get this phone, go
Speaker 3: start ringing, Nigga, call be like listen code, like you
Speaker 3: bring your iPad up here, like we were going in
Speaker 3: a different route, right, And that's just the nature of
Speaker 3: the beast. So, like you said, every single day, I
Speaker 3: mean they always say that every day is an interview,
Speaker 3: but like literally, like I think people don't understand that. Again,
Speaker 3: depending on who you are, right, your first round, second round,
Speaker 3: you probably are guaranteed that first year, right, But that
Speaker 3: doesn't mean you're guaranteed three years from now, four years
Speaker 3: from now, right, And that's you. You just hope and
Speaker 3: pray that young guys come in and understand that. And me,
Speaker 3: fortunately I understood it. It was what motivated me to
Speaker 3: want to be great and make the team and still
Speaker 3: be here seven years later. Right, But for a lot
Speaker 3: of guys, like I remember rookie years, some guys would
Speaker 3: go to this mall across the street from my hotel,
Speaker 3: and I remember getting on Snapchat. Snap was like a
Speaker 3: big at the time, and getting on there and they
Speaker 3: literally walking in there selfie videos stunting like we're about
Speaker 3: to census sag And I'm like, bro, y'all all making
Speaker 3: the same thing I'm making right now, which is like
Speaker 3: like maybe one hundred and fifty bucks.
Speaker 2: All right, so you had a one point two million
Speaker 2: dollar contract, Yeah, but then you four weeks in you
Speaker 2: got demoted to practice team.
Speaker 3: Right now, so so you get drafted or undrafted in
Speaker 3: the spring. So like our rookies just showed up this weekend.
Speaker 3: So where we may whatever we are right now, we train, train, training,
Speaker 3: You can be there's guys being cut, there's guys being
Speaker 3: signed that entire time, like that roster is fluctuating. And
Speaker 3: then by the time you get the training camp, you
Speaker 3: start training camp in late July with ninety guys on
Speaker 3: the roster, that roster fluctuates a bit. And then by
Speaker 3: the end of August, beginning of September, that roster cuts
Speaker 3: down the fifty three, and then on top of that
Speaker 3: fifty three you have ten practice squad guys. I made
Speaker 3: it from that May all the way through to August.
Speaker 3: I got cut, became one of those practice squad guys
Speaker 3: where your salary goes from a minimum of like four
Speaker 3: hundred thirty thousand to one hundred thousand. And then four
Speaker 3: weeks later, four weeks into the season, that's when I
Speaker 3: got released from the team. And that's in Baltimore.
Speaker 4: That's in Baltimore. So none of that one point two
Speaker 4: million was guaranteed, none of.
Speaker 3: It, not even nonhing I wish it looks good on paper.
Speaker 3: Though it looks good, it sounds good. So there's also
Speaker 3: that that's the problem that that that you see that
Speaker 3: headline and then the vultures come get it right, family, everybody.
Speaker 6: Because now it's like on paper, it look oh he's
Speaker 6: a millionaire.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that's interesting. I think people don't fully understand that,
Speaker 2: Like I can't drive that home. All right, you got
Speaker 2: a one point two million dollar contract, none of it
Speaker 2: was guaranteed.
Speaker 4: You probably netted how.
Speaker 3: Much you net probably probably like thirty maybe that's how
Speaker 3: much you made from the Baltimore Ravens, probably like thirty
Speaker 3: because in the spring I made money in the spring,
Speaker 3: So like right now, you might be making what maybe
Speaker 3: a couple hundred a week because they take your hotel
Speaker 3: and stuff that the team doesn't cover it. They cover it,
Speaker 3: but it's coming out of your damn type of thing.
Speaker 3: The cover it, but you just don't know, you know,
Speaker 3: you don't really have a Yeah, so you're making maybe
Speaker 3: a few hundred a week, and they cover your meals
Speaker 3: and all that stuff on the weekend, so you don't
Speaker 3: really have too many expenses. But then as you get
Speaker 3: to preseason, now you're making I want to say, seven
Speaker 3: hundred a week before taxes, so you know, and that's
Speaker 3: what maybe five to six weeks, so you really like
Speaker 3: four you know, who knows that is four hundred a
Speaker 3: week after all dollars done. Dollars, yeah, dollars yeah. And
Speaker 3: then once the season hits. As a practice squad guy,
Speaker 3: I was making I was seeing about four k after taxes.
Speaker 3: I think my check was like seven thousand and seventy
Speaker 3: five hundred per week before, so about four thousand after
Speaker 3: And Lisa did that for four weeks, so that's about
Speaker 3: sixteen right there. So I probably made a little less
Speaker 3: than thirty from the Baltimore Ravens. And then two weeks
Speaker 3: later I got cut week four. Two weeks later, I
Speaker 3: got picked up by the Tennessee Titans practice squad with
Speaker 3: them for a bunch of weeks. I got cut by them.
Speaker 3: A lot of people don't notice too. It's like in
Speaker 3: my family, they understand, and it's so funny that so
Speaker 3: at Tuesday at four pm Eastern is when your money
Speaker 3: is guaranteed for the week. So for me and the
Speaker 3: way that my career has been, and I'm not superstitious,
Speaker 3: but I just I have certain things. I have my routine.
Speaker 3: My family knew. Don't call me Tuesday after four pm Eastern, right,
Speaker 3: So and where's that come from? Like I've been cut
Speaker 3: at three point fifty six pm Eastern, wild right.
Speaker 4: So you don't get paid, don't get paid?
Speaker 3: Wow? So if you get cut at four h one pm,
Speaker 3: I'm paid for that week, Erners, what's up?
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Speaker 3: So when I was in Baltimore, they cut me on
Speaker 3: Wednesday morning because they were like, hey, we're playing on
Speaker 3: your back. You know, it's showing good faith you. You know,
Speaker 3: we like you all that type of stuff. We just
Speaker 3: need to make some other roster changes. Blah bla blah blah.
Speaker 3: So you know, take the time off, you know, go work,
Speaker 3: stay stay in shape, but we'll bring you back this week.
Speaker 3: Then still waiting on that. But then Tennessee one time,
Speaker 3: these dudes, man, I it's funny. I went and did
Speaker 3: like a whole charity out event for him. I went,
Speaker 3: we went to a high school and uh, you know,
Speaker 3: Tennessee Titans jerseys and all that type of stuff. And
Speaker 3: on the way not on the way back. Later on
Speaker 3: that evening, I had some rehabs set up a massage
Speaker 3: appointment and it's three fifty six. I get the call.
Speaker 3: I'm like this random Tennessee number, pick up the phone
Speaker 3: and man, we need you to bring in your op.
Speaker 3: Oh man, y'all knew.
Speaker 2: This before you send me on the event, the whole
Speaker 2: they sent you on the whole charity of thing and
Speaker 2: all that, and then they waited four minutes before the
Speaker 2: deadline of country.
Speaker 4: So you don't get paid for the week four minutes.
Speaker 4: What about the massage?
Speaker 3: You have to cancel it or to be quite honest
Speaker 3: with you, I told myself, I was like, I probably
Speaker 3: should cancer because I don't know when that next check
Speaker 3: you comes right right, you know what, hey man, you
Speaker 3: gotta I probably need it right now. You know, I
Speaker 3: probably need to just relax. So uh so yeah, so
Speaker 3: my family literally they would know, don't call me on Tuesday,
Speaker 3: so literally at four to one, so years later, four
Speaker 3: one pm, whenever I was good, I'd send them a
Speaker 3: bunch of gifts, a bunch of money we count making
Speaker 3: it Raine and all that type of stuff. And then
Speaker 3: after you get to year five, uh, once that ball
Speaker 3: is kicked off in your first in the fel game,
Speaker 3: then you're guaranteed your salary for the whole year. So
Speaker 3: like last year that for veterans. You're a veteran, so
Speaker 3: last year was my first, you're having that. So after
Speaker 3: that first game, I just sent them like sixty you know,
Speaker 3: sixteen different ones. But it's it's a lot of that
Speaker 3: goes into it. Basically, you know what you're getting at
Speaker 3: is there's a lot that goes into it that people
Speaker 3: don't think about. They don't understand. Yes, you see that
Speaker 3: big contract, you see that big number, and that is great, right,
Speaker 3: but what are you really getting from that one? You
Speaker 3: got a fifty fifty percent of it gone off?
Speaker 2: The talk about that because a lot people don't fully
Speaker 2: understand how taxes work, right, and they're like, well you should,
Speaker 2: you should set up corporation. Like their employees, they get
Speaker 2: paid just like how you get paid, right, so they
Speaker 2: don't have opportunity to defer the income.
Speaker 3: It's it's not an option, right, your boss ain't going
Speaker 3: for that exactly.
Speaker 2: So I because social media, a lot of times people
Speaker 2: write that like well they if they were smart, Like, no,
Speaker 2: it doesn't work like that, just like if you were smart,
Speaker 2: you were doing that right. No, you don't have that
Speaker 2: option so automatically, because you know how you tax automatically
Speaker 2: goes to tax gone off the red. Depending on what
Speaker 2: state tu're in, it's even higher, right then the state
Speaker 2: tax they take that out of your paycheck every time
Speaker 2: you get paid in that in that particular.
Speaker 3: Yep, yep, they'll do that. Uh like if you so,
Speaker 3: if you're playing in California, so you look at the schedule,
Speaker 3: you're like, dang, I got three games in California right
Speaker 3: West coast trip that you know you get taxed at
Speaker 3: that California rates thirteen percent.
Speaker 4: And it's crazy because Rod Smith shout out to Rod Smith.
Speaker 2: He's he's been a loyal follow up from the beginning,
Speaker 2: and anybody has no Rod Smith.
Speaker 4: He's a Hall of.
Speaker 3: Famer frint uh not yet, but a legend, a legend.
Speaker 4: And deva Denver Dever Broncos wide receiver, Denver legend.
Speaker 2: So I put a post up a while ago and
Speaker 2: me and him he was common and he was like, yeah,
Speaker 2: when people don't realize it's that a right, California has
Speaker 2: the highest state tax in the country, right, like thirteen percent.
Speaker 2: Like you said, let's say you played it in for
Speaker 2: Miami Dolphins Florida, right, which Florida has no state income tax. Right,
Speaker 2: So what happens is that you might practice in Florida
Speaker 2: from Monday to let's say Thursday, right fly when you
Speaker 2: fly out for a Sunday game Saturday Saturday, So you
Speaker 2: practice from Monday to Saturday in Florida.
Speaker 4: You are in Florida.
Speaker 2: You're in California for Saturday and Sunday, maybe like Monday
Speaker 2: morning early. So you only spent two days in California,
Speaker 2: but the whole week is taxed in California because that's
Speaker 2: where you played the game.
Speaker 5: Man.
Speaker 2: So even though you prepared, like only spend forty eight
Speaker 2: hours in that particular state, and you practiced in the
Speaker 2: state that you actually live in, but it doesn't matter.
Speaker 2: You played that game in that space. So for the
Speaker 2: whole week, the whole week's paycheck is taxed in California.
Speaker 6: Yeah, you guys played Jersey state tax or is it Jersey? Right,
Speaker 6: that's what it got played.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, but I wouldn't be surprised. New York trying
Speaker 3: to take a little bit of that too. I'm thinking
Speaker 3: like New York, but I wouldn't be surprised. Trust me,
Speaker 3: I'd have seen a lot I've seen, like you said.
Speaker 3: Every So when we play a team in Texas, it's like, okay, cool, right,
Speaker 3: London games London and or national taxes they cost a
Speaker 3: bit too, right. Florida teams you know, you see Miami
Speaker 3: or Tampa ballion schedule, you likes Tennessee, you know cool.
Speaker 3: Another thing, you know, a few years ago, there was
Speaker 3: a guy in the locker room when I was in Detroit. Detroit,
Speaker 3: they have the city tax and the state tax, so
Speaker 3: they'll tax you in Michigan and then they'll tax you
Speaker 3: in Detroit. Now when we so, one guy got very
Speaker 3: very smart financial advisor account and got very very smart
Speaker 3: with it. Because again, like you said, if you guys
Speaker 3: are want to play the game with me, of like, okay, hey,
Speaker 3: I'm only here for twenty four hours. You know, sometimes
Speaker 3: we fly in at five pm, we out the next
Speaker 3: day at five pm. After the game kickoffs at one.
Speaker 3: You know, I'm only here for twenty four hours. You're
Speaker 3: gonna tax me for the whole week.
Speaker 4: I remember.
Speaker 3: His issue was Detroit was taking tax every single week
Speaker 3: as if we trained there, played there, and all that stuff,
Speaker 3: like we were there for the whole week. So when
Speaker 3: you when you play with the Lions, the our facilities
Speaker 3: in Allen Park, the stadium is in Detroit, Michigan. It's
Speaker 3: like a twenty minute ride. But Detroit was trying to
Speaker 3: take taxes as if you were there every single play.
Speaker 3: So they'll actually literally break down the days and be like, well,
Speaker 3: you know, you were here one hundred and such and
Speaker 3: such days. So he was like, you know, okay, I'm
Speaker 3: actually only there out of the what eight home games.
Speaker 3: I'm there Saturday night when we stay at the team hotel,
Speaker 3: and I'm there Sunday when we played. So them one
Speaker 3: hundred and eighty days. Now you got sixteen of them, right,
Speaker 3: And so he ended up going back and getting some
Speaker 3: money from Detroit on that.
Speaker 6: So the interesting thing is like the way your mind's
Speaker 6: working right now. You're like, if I play in Texas, right,
Speaker 6: if I'm playing the Cowboys or the Texans, I know
Speaker 6: there's no state tex How many of your counterparts have
Speaker 6: that same mind frame?
Speaker 4: I think a lot do?
Speaker 3: I think a lot do? Because I mean, at that point,
Speaker 3: you're talking about thousands, right, Like you're not talking about
Speaker 3: like you're talking about the difference in you know, depending
Speaker 3: on what you're making. You're talking about the difference in
Speaker 3: like sixth sex your grand by playing somewhere else versus
Speaker 3: you know, I mean some guys, I mean the way
Speaker 3: they get paid some guys. You're talking a good fifteen
Speaker 3: twenty grand difference, right, So guys are thinking about it again,
Speaker 3: you know, not to take up all yall time. But
Speaker 3: there's different things that people out there just don't understand,
Speaker 3: like the fact of like you have to have multiple
Speaker 3: places of residency, see right, Like sometimes like you literally
Speaker 3: just have to. And I've never wanted to be that
Speaker 3: guy having Like I'm a frugal person, right, I'm cheap
Speaker 3: school with me, right, I have no problem. I'm proud
Speaker 3: of it. But like, I literally I have a home
Speaker 3: base here in New Jersey with my wife and I.
Speaker 3: When I was playing in Detroit, she works in Manhattan
Speaker 3: and she's from here, we had home base here. So
Speaker 3: now play with the Jets, I'm like, man, okay, Like
Speaker 3: we can just have home base, like and that's the crib. Well,
Speaker 3: guess what home base for me is forty five minutes
Speaker 3: away from here in no traffic. So if I wake
Speaker 3: up in the morning and it's raining hard. I remember
Speaker 3: my first day trying to come in and reporting to
Speaker 3: the Jets. It was raining hard, and my driving from
Speaker 3: forty five minutes no traffic. And this is like six
Speaker 3: thirty in the morning right to an hour and fifteen minutes.
Speaker 3: Now people are like, oh, well, just wake up early
Speaker 3: and all that type of stuff. Well, guess what if
Speaker 3: you're late to your job, you get a slap on
Speaker 3: the risk, right, you bost You know, at a certain
Speaker 3: point you can't keep being laid. You'll get your you
Speaker 3: get fired. But for me, if I'm late, that's a
Speaker 3: thirteen thousand dollars fine, right, Like that's ill. You know
Speaker 3: what I'm saying, I'll go ahead. And so last year
Speaker 3: I had to rent a place. I have a house
Speaker 3: forty minutes from here, and I had I mean, some
Speaker 3: people might be like, well, you didn't have to know,
Speaker 3: Like for me, I had to rent a place seven minutes.
Speaker 3: It's not worth the risk, right, It's not worth the risk.
Speaker 3: It's not worth being a few minutes. And then also
Speaker 3: it's just the cost of doing business.
Speaker 4: Right, he's going travel at forty five minutes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, forty five minutes when I'm like, I told people
Speaker 3: it's an investment as well, right, Like forty five minutes.
Speaker 3: That's forty five minutes I could be working on my
Speaker 3: body getting ready for the next week's game. That's forty
Speaker 3: five minutes that somebody is literally watching film with just
Speaker 3: how am I gonna whoop Brandon coping this week?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 3: And I need that forty five minutes to make sure
Speaker 3: I'm prepared for him as well. So there's a bunch
Speaker 3: of different costs. You know, guys talk about transporting vehicles
Speaker 3: back and forth, right, Like I live in California, but
Speaker 3: you know, on my home base, I'm born and raised
Speaker 3: in California. I have everything over there. But now I'm
Speaker 3: with the Jets. Right, how's my vehicle getting back and forth?
Speaker 3: Or am I gonna uber it every day? Am I
Speaker 3: gonna walk every day? Bike every day? What about when
Speaker 3: it's snowy? So do I need to pay the transport
Speaker 3: back a car back and forth? Do I need a
Speaker 3: rental car? Do I need to buy a car? Some
Speaker 3: of these costs that we see guys with with like,
Speaker 3: you know, we just assumed like, oh, this guy, he's
Speaker 3: being extra, he's doing you know, some of this stuff
Speaker 3: is just a cost of like convenience and doing business
Speaker 3: at a high level. Right, And that you know, again,
Speaker 3: it was not a woe is us, Right, I'm thankful
Speaker 3: to have those type of problems as opposed to others.
Speaker 3: But you know, those are costs that you just can't
Speaker 3: escape from.
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