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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Weird House Cinema. Rewind. My name

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Speaker 1: is Joe McCormick. Today we're bringing you an older episode

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Speaker 1: of Weird House Cinema. This is the feature that we

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Speaker 1: did on Legend, directed by Ridley Scott, starring Tom Cruise,

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Speaker 1: MIAs Sarah, and Tim Curry. This originally published on August thirtieth,

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty four. Let's jump right in.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 3: Hey, welcome to Weird House Cinema.

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Speaker 1: This is Rob Lamb and this is Joe McCormick. And

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Speaker 1: today on Weird House Cinema we're going to be talking

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Speaker 1: about the nineteen eighty five Ridley Scott fantasy tale Legend

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Speaker 1: starring Tom Cruise, MIAs Sarah, and Tim Curry. I wanted

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Speaker 1: to start off just by because I mentioned it so

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Speaker 1: many times on the show that I love a good

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Speaker 1: synthetic forest set, like a you know, a fairytale woodland

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Speaker 1: built inside a sound stage. Legend is a kind of

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Speaker 1: heaven for me because it is there's more of that

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Speaker 1: in this movie than any other movie I can think of.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they built an enormous forest for this one inside

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Speaker 3: the double Low seven Stage at Pinewood Studios. That was

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Speaker 3: the studio that was built for nineteen seventy seven's The

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Speaker 3: Spy Who Loved Me, and interestingly enough, it burned down

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Speaker 3: shortly before filming could wrap on Legend, tragically killing the

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Speaker 3: last two living unicorns.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, now, no, the unicorns are fine, but some of

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Speaker 3: their final scenes had to be filmed in an actual

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Speaker 3: outdoor location because of this. So if you're watching closely,

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Speaker 3: there may be some unicorn scenes here and there where

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Speaker 3: you're like, oh, that looks like maybe that's for real

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Speaker 3: outdoors instead of this lush and amazing indoor forest they built.

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Speaker 3: But they do a good job of making you not

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Speaker 3: necessarily focus.

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Speaker 1: On the difference. I love that it goes back and

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Speaker 1: forth and you can't always tell if you're actually outside

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Speaker 1: or if this is an indoor forest.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Like they just like they're like particles floating around

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Speaker 3: in the air. I'm not sure if it's like pollen

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Speaker 3: or fairy dust. I mean, it's just there's a lot

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Speaker 3: going on. It's a very rich visual texture.

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Speaker 1: In my opinion, this is an almost perfect example of

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Speaker 1: a movie that has all the things it needs to

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Speaker 1: be absolutely wonderful, but it doesn't know exactly how to

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Speaker 1: use them to the greatest effect. So this this movie

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Speaker 1: has unbelievably gorgeous sets, some of the most amazing production

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Speaker 1: design of any movie I can think of ever. It

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Speaker 1: has stupendous makeup effects and costumes. Has a great cast,

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Speaker 1: especially in the sort of the down cheat character role

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Speaker 1: in the villain roles. It has some intriguing ideas and moments,

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Speaker 1: and some fun and funny dialogue in it. It's got

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Speaker 1: unicorns all the resources and technical skill that is needed

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Speaker 1: to make a best of the best fantasy adventure. And

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Speaker 1: yet somehow the movie always still feels like it kind

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Speaker 1: of doesn't come together right. Something kind of falls apart

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Speaker 1: at the core of it. It's like it's not organized

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Speaker 1: correctly toward a toward its storytelling purpose.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I know what you mean, and this is going

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Speaker 3: to be something we're going to discuss back and forth,

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Speaker 3: I think, the whole episode. But it's also I think

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Speaker 3: one of the reasons that I realized that the time

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Speaker 3: was right to discuss legend. We've been talking a lot

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Speaker 3: about alien and alien related content on the show, and

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Speaker 3: I was heavily tempted. And we may still come back

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Speaker 3: and do Alien at some point. But Alien is one

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Speaker 3: of those films, a Ridley Scott film that I mean,

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Speaker 3: it's it's basically perfect, like it like everything works in

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Speaker 3: that picture, and it's and it's fun to talk about

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Speaker 3: films we're passionate about and that you know, are so

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Speaker 3: great that you don't really have anything critical to say

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Speaker 3: about them. But I don't know, sometimes it's a little

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Speaker 3: more engaging maybe to get into something like this, a

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Speaker 3: film that is rougher around some of the edges in

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Speaker 3: some aspects of the production.

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Speaker 1: I very much agree that Alien is basically perfect, but

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Speaker 1: Legend is different. This is not the only Ridley Scott

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Speaker 1: movie that could be described in this way as having

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Speaker 1: so many technical elements that are just at the peak

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Speaker 1: of excellence. You know, maybe has a kind of esthetic perfection,

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Speaker 1: but something just doesn't all work as a narrative. It

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Speaker 1: doesn't fit together in the right way. And I want

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Speaker 1: to be clear that nobody's going to tag me as

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Speaker 1: a Ridley hater, you know, as I already said, I

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Speaker 1: think Alien is basically perfect. I'm not one of those

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Speaker 1: people who thinks Blade Runner is overrated. Some people say

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Speaker 1: that now I don't agree. I think it is brilliant,

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Speaker 1: and I even personally find delight in some of Ridley

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Speaker 1: Scott's more arguably or some would even say objectively bad

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Speaker 1: films like Hannibal or Alien Covenant. I sort of think, well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: maybe they are bad, but I kind of like them anyway.

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Speaker 1: But apart from that, I think it's interesting that Scott

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Speaker 1: has made a number of these films that, at least

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Speaker 1: as I see it, pull together the best of the

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Speaker 1: best in terms of all the technical elements of filmmaking.

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Speaker 1: They look amazing, they sound amazing, they have beautiful and

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Speaker 1: interesting things to show you, but at the same time

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Speaker 1: they can end up feeling kind of disorganized, flabby, and

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Speaker 1: sometimes even irritating. Exercises in storytelling.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I would broadly agree with all that, and

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Speaker 3: I think maybe a lot of it comes down to

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Speaker 3: the particular way that really Scott seems to command a picture,

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Speaker 3: because yeah, I think he's a tremendous visual director. His storyboards,

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Speaker 3: which are often called Ridley Grahams. I don't know if

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Speaker 3: he calls them Redly Grahams or people who work with

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Speaker 3: them call them Ridley Graams, but I'm not sure of

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Speaker 3: the term. But the Ridley Grams alone are always worth

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Speaker 3: a look because on one hand, they're just I mean,

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Speaker 3: they look you could say, here's a comic book past

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Speaker 3: the Ridley Grahams and you would buy it. Like they don't.

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Speaker 3: They don't feel as much like a rough sketch of

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Speaker 3: what is to be filmed as as some storyboards, do

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Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: And also it's it's provides a lot of insight into

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Speaker 3: how it all comes together, even though again they are

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Speaker 3: essentially blueprints of everything to come. It's where he takes

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Speaker 3: the screenplay written by others and projects them into a

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Speaker 3: more solidified visual form. And like you say, you know that.

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Speaker 3: On top of that, really Scott's going to bring in

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Speaker 3: just the absolute best behind the scenes crew and generally

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Speaker 3: just great casting choices as well to make it all

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Speaker 3: come alive. That being said, yeah, he is often criticized

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Speaker 3: for being inconsistent. And I guess one of the weird

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Speaker 3: things here is I'm, by by all means not a

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Speaker 3: Ridley Scott complete us. There are a bunch of Ridley

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Speaker 3: Scott films. I haven't seen many of these. Yeah, many

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Speaker 3: his historical pieces, for example, many of his dramas, even

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Speaker 3: some of the big dramas like Film and Luise. I

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Speaker 3: just haven't seen it and it's not on my immediate

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Speaker 3: to watch list. It's not something we could work into

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Speaker 3: Weird House, you know, But that one was critically acclaimed

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Speaker 3: and nominated for multiple awards. But yeah, for my money,

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Speaker 3: Alien and Blade Runner are all timer's. I personally loved

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Speaker 3: Prometheus and Alien Covenant, and really admired Covenant more. On

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Speaker 3: a recent rewatch, I realized that one's kind of divisive,

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Speaker 3: but it certainly has its fans, and I think its faults,

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Speaker 3: in my opinion, are trivial in the face of everything

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Speaker 3: it does.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 3: Hannibal, that's another weird one to look at. Hannibal is

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Speaker 3: one I would almost consider doing for Weird House as well,

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Speaker 3: because I remember when the novel came out and it

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Speaker 3: was I thought it was kind of a mess and

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Speaker 3: kind of repellent, And if anything, the film improved matters

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Speaker 3: by cutting out some of the more lurid elements and

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Speaker 3: finding its own sort of strange, grotesque tale to tell

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Speaker 3: again with a stunning cast, great visuals and this kind

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Speaker 3: of like, you know, baroque awfulness that Scott does so well.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, that's one I probably need to rewatch, but

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Speaker 3: it's it's also not one I'm in a super hurry

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Speaker 3: to see again.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Ridley has a kind of magic that

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Speaker 1: even when he makes a movie that I'm not going

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Speaker 1: to go out and defend I don't think is a

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Speaker 1: great movie, I do want to keep looking at it.

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Speaker 1: Usually like I will come back to these movies.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean Ridley is going to bring

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Speaker 3: you somewhere you haven't been before, and in all likelihood

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Speaker 3: no one else is going to bring you to, you know,

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Speaker 3: And I think that's one thing I really love about Covenant.

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Speaker 3: That's one thing that I even admire about Hannibal is

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Speaker 3: like there have even been other adaptations of the source

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Speaker 3: material for Hannibal, and that adaptation as well has its

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Speaker 3: own visual flare, but it's not quite the same.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 3: There's just something about the Ridley is really Scott approach

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Speaker 3: to filmmaking that is just really going to sing.

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Speaker 1: I'm curious about your own viewing history with Legend, because

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Speaker 1: mine is a bit confused. I'm going to say what

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Speaker 1: I think it was, but I'm not positive about this.

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Speaker 1: I think the order for me goes. I saw pieces

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Speaker 1: of this movie on TV growing up, so, you know,

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Speaker 1: running it. I don't know which cut they'd be airing

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Speaker 1: on TV. We'll have to talk about the multiple cuts

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Speaker 1: of the film. I'd guess probably the US theatrical cut,

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Speaker 1: but bits of it on TV where I was just

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Speaker 1: seeing like a big devil with gigantic horns that's very

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Speaker 1: striking and hard to forget Mia Sara wearing a kind

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Speaker 1: of like triangle shaped black dress with goth makeup on,

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Speaker 1: and seeing Tom Cruise's legs and thinking I didn't know

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Speaker 1: Tom Cruise was ever in a fantasy movie like this.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure what's going on, but it just kind

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Speaker 1: of getting past me, you know. I'd see a little

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Speaker 1: bit here and there, and then at some point I

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Speaker 1: saw the film in full, and I don't know what

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Speaker 1: cut it was, but I remember thinking it was beautiful

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Speaker 1: and I was mighty impressed by it in some ways.

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Speaker 1: But I do kind of remember feeling tempted to fall

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Speaker 1: asleep at certain parts.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, there are plenty of stretches of this

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Speaker 3: film that are very hypnotic and also in places a

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Speaker 3: little slow. Especially. It depends on the cut of the film,

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Speaker 3: which we'll get into there. I think two major cuts

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Speaker 3: and probably four separate cuts you could point to. But

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Speaker 3: with me, it's possible I saw part of it on

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Speaker 3: TV at some point, or had seen a VHS box

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Speaker 3: for it certainly previously. But my clear memory was being

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Speaker 3: homesick from school one day and I had a couple

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Speaker 3: of movies rented movies to watch. One of them was

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Speaker 3: Highlander and the other was This wo And I do

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Speaker 3: remember from the moment the VHS type started playing the

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Speaker 3: film proper, I remember getting hit with that Tangerine dream score,

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Speaker 3: and then you know, the visuals began to kick in,

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Speaker 3: and I realized right away there was something special about

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Speaker 3: this one. You know, this was an enthralling, dark fantasy

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Speaker 3: world that I just hadn't seen anything like this on

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Speaker 3: the screen before. You know, like you look back to

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Speaker 3: this time period and like, what else, what else did

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Speaker 3: you have in nineteen eighty five that really, I mean,

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Speaker 3: that gave you live action fantasy at all, but much

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Speaker 3: much more, to the point, gave you live action fantasy

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Speaker 3: that was this dark in its texture, you know. I mean,

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Speaker 3: nowadays you can easily point to Peter Jackson's Lord of

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Speaker 3: the Rings films, which really get in there with all

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Speaker 3: the mor door stuff that works in the goblins and

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Speaker 3: deliver it to you know, in spades. But at the time,

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Speaker 3: like this was kind of this is as deep as

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Speaker 3: dark and dark as it got.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess you've got the different sort of sub

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Speaker 1: genres of fantasy. So like by the mid eighties you

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Speaker 1: had you had Conan type stuff which could be dark,

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Speaker 1: but was more I don't know, it was more gritty

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Speaker 1: and though it had magic in, it was more brutal

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Speaker 1: and realistic overall, and it was more pitched at a

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Speaker 1: I don't know if this is the right word, but

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Speaker 1: a mature audience. You know, it was the original Cone

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Speaker 1: and rated R. Surely not or was it?

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Speaker 3: I believe it was an R.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, oh okay, I mean so just like very violent,

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Speaker 1: kind of gritty, barbarian fantasy, you had that kind of thing.

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Speaker 1: Of course, you had the more animated approach often to

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Speaker 1: high fantasy type stuff. But I think it's interesting that

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Speaker 1: Legend is is dark fantasy that shows you a lot

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Speaker 1: of scary, devilish kind of stuff, but at its core

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Speaker 1: it is a fairy tale. It's not a grim, gritty,

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Speaker 1: more kind of muscle and steel fantasy like the Conan movies.

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Speaker 1: It's a fairy tale with a broad fairy tale kind

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Speaker 1: of brushstroke to it, but it's also very dark.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think this is another thing that even

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Speaker 3: early on I realized there was kind of a disconnect

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Speaker 3: with because the visual style of Legend is insanely epic,

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Speaker 3: the actual story that it tells is maybe it. I mean,

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Speaker 3: it has high stakes, like you know, yea the world,

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Speaker 3: it's about saving the world, but in many other respects

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Speaker 3: it's less epic. The story is a little more simplified

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Speaker 3: and more I think, just sort of fairy tale in form.

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Speaker 3: So it's yeah, it's it feels it feels like the

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Speaker 3: visuals are like far out delivering the actual story.

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Speaker 1: Can I suggest I think a reason why it feels

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Speaker 1: less epic. I think it's because it's a fairly tight

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Speaker 1: character list, Like there are not we never see masses

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Speaker 1: of people or armies or anything like that in this movie.

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Speaker 1: It's actually quite intimate in terms of the characters. The

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Speaker 1: only regular people we ever meet in the movie is like,

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Speaker 1: is a single cottage full of peasants in the forest.

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Speaker 1: You know that MIAs Sarah's character goes to visit at

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Speaker 1: the beginning of the movie, And so there's no sense

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Speaker 1: at all of kind of the broader world of peoples

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Speaker 1: and armies clashing or anything like that. I mean, we

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Speaker 1: are too believe that somewhere out there there is a

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Speaker 1: castle where the king MIAs, Sarah's father lives and all that,

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Speaker 1: but we never see them. So the characters almost kind

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Speaker 1: of exist in this private, intimate kind of fantasy forest

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Speaker 1: dream world. And so though we know that the fate

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Speaker 1: of the entire world is at stake with what happens

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Speaker 1: to the unicorns in the movie, we never see mighty

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Speaker 1: forces coming together.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. No, I think that's a solid red. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: because just looking at the picture, they're less than like,

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Speaker 3: less than twenty people in the whole world, but we

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Speaker 3: know that they're out there. There's supposed to be a castle,

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Speaker 3: there's supposed to be these more expansive civilizations, we assume.

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Speaker 1: Now, Rob, maybe this is a good place to address

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Speaker 1: the different cuts of the movie, because when you picked

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Speaker 1: Legend for the show and you told me we're going

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Speaker 1: to be watching the director's cut, which is not the

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Speaker 1: cut that has a Tangerine Dream score, I was quite

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Speaker 1: confused how you could make this selection. But this is

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Speaker 1: preferred by most fans of the movie. They're going to

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Speaker 1: say that the director's cut, which is a good bit

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Speaker 1: longer and has a traditional orchestrated Jerry Goldsmith's score instead

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Speaker 1: of the Tangerine Dream score, most people say this is

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Speaker 1: massively preferable to the US theatrical version.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the vibe I've always gotten. And so I

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Speaker 3: felt like, well, if we're going to talk about Legend,

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Speaker 3: even though I'm all my nostalgia and my love is

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Speaker 3: built up around this theatrical cut, it's going to be

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Speaker 3: a little weird if we come in and then we're saying, well,

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Speaker 3: this movie has problems, and then people are going to say, well,

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Speaker 3: did you watch the director's cut, And we'll say no, no,

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Speaker 3: we just watched the one that we're familiar with. So

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Speaker 3: and you know, I want to thought, well, this is

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Speaker 3: a way to experience a film that I do have

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Speaker 3: nostalgia for and then I do admire in many ways,

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Speaker 3: it's experiencing it in a different light. So yeah, it

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Speaker 3: was like, let's do director's cut and then we can compare.

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Speaker 1: To be clear, I still think the director's cut has problems.

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Speaker 3: But yeah it does.

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Speaker 1: I will say, on rewatching it, I was expecting, you know,

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Speaker 1: I sort of had this idea in my memory that

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Speaker 1: it was a very beautiful looking movie that had massive

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Speaker 1: narrative deficiencies. I don't know which cut it was I

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Speaker 1: saw in you know, the intervening years in between seeing

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Speaker 1: Bits on TV and this rewatch. It may have been theatrical,

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Speaker 1: may have been director's cut. I'm just not sure. But

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Speaker 1: I thought the film was not as bad as I

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Speaker 1: remembered in terms of putting together a cohesive narrative. I

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Speaker 1: still think it's flawed, but it's better than I would

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Speaker 1: have said. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll get into some particular examples of ways that

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Speaker 3: I think that the director's cut improves upon the theatrical cut,

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Speaker 3: and I do want to also go ahead and throw

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Speaker 3: in here that I think there are maybe like four

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Speaker 3: different cuts total that have been out there and the

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Speaker 3: ecosystem of movie viewing. The director's cut, which came out

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Speaker 3: years later, decades later. I think there's the US theatrical cut,

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Speaker 3: there's the euro theatrical cut that I think is in

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Speaker 3: large part reflected in the director's cut, and then there's

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Speaker 3: apparently some sort of a TV cut out there that

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Speaker 3: I think was US theatrical cut with some extra added stuff.

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Speaker 3: Added in, you know, to fill out a certain run time,

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Speaker 3: that sort of thing.

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Speaker 1: However, one other thing I want to say about the

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Speaker 1: different cuts is that I was not able. I didn't

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Speaker 1: have time to watch the US theatrical cut in full,

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Speaker 1: but I watched the full director's cut and then the

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Speaker 1: first I don't know ten minutes of the US theatrical cut.

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Speaker 1: And the difference is not just that there is more

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Speaker 1: stuff in the director's cut that was taken out for

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Speaker 1: the theatrical That is not the only difference. There is

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Speaker 1: a very different style and approach. For example, in the

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Speaker 1: opening scenes, the US theatrical cut just straight up shows

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Speaker 1: you the villain's face, which is delayed for a long time.

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Speaker 1: In the director's cut, there's a big build up. And

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Speaker 1: so I perceived the US theatrical version to be significantly

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Speaker 1: more clumsy and awkward in its edit from the very beginning,

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Speaker 1: even without talking about major differences in what material is there?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Like it feels like the US theatrical cut

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Speaker 3: was very much an attempt to make everything tighter and

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Speaker 3: more exciting at the beginning, and like I guess, to

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Speaker 3: keep people from falling asleep or leaving the theater or something.

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: But in doing so, Yeah, they make some choices like this, like,

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Speaker 3: let's go ahead and show them darkness in full, Let's

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Speaker 3: go ahead and show them the tree, Let's go ahead

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Speaker 3: and show them the hell kitchens. We're gonna go ahead

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Speaker 3: and roll out all of some of our at least

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Speaker 3: a glimpse of some of our big set pieces early on.

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Speaker 3: And they have this scrolling in on the screen. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it really feels like the abstract from a peer reviewed

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Speaker 3: science paper, you know, where it just lays out all

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Speaker 3: the basics of the hypothesis, tells you what the experiments

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Speaker 3: were and the findings right up top. Whereas the director's

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Speaker 3: cut does not do this. The director's cut lets you

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Speaker 3: pick up on this or not pick up on it

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Speaker 3: on your own. But the yeah, the the US theatrical

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Speaker 3: cut basically force feeds it to you.

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Speaker 1: Now, on one hand, you can kind of understand the

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Speaker 1: impetus behind the theatrical cut, because you were saying they

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Speaker 1: were trying to make it tighter and more exciting right

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Speaker 1: at the beginning. I don't know if the director's cut

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Speaker 1: needed to be more exciting right at the beginning, but

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Speaker 1: I will say the first twenty or thirty minutes of

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Speaker 1: the director's cut. It happens at a very dreamy, lilting pace,

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Speaker 1: and that can feel particularly it can have a kind

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Speaker 1: of sedative effect, especially when you know Tom Cruise and

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Speaker 1: Mia Sarah are just kind of frolicking around in the

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Speaker 1: forest and you know, looking at the flowers and stuff.

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Speaker 1: I was feeling the call of sleep at those times.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Again, it's very hypnotic and dream like as well

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Speaker 3: in these sequences, and be watching all unicorn run and

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Speaker 3: slow motion through an unreal forest. Yeah, I mean, you're

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Speaker 3: supposed to feel at peace at that point.

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Speaker 1: I'm not knocking it too much. I'm just saying, like

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Speaker 1: I can understand somebody watching this and saying the first

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Speaker 1: third of it is slow, Like you've got to have

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Speaker 1: some patience to go with it at the beginning there.

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Speaker 1: But I agree that the way they tightened it in

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Speaker 1: the US version is not an improvement. Instead, it just

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Speaker 1: sort of like it kind of blows the air out

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Speaker 1: of the whole thing.

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Speaker 3: All right, Well, let's go ahead and hear a little

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Speaker 3: little trailer audio, not the full trailer, but just a

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Speaker 3: little of it to get a certain taste of it.

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Speaker 4: There is a balance to the universe. The struggle to

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Speaker 4: maintain that balance is the stuff of legends. For there

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Speaker 4: can be no good without evil, no love without hate,

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Speaker 4: life needs death, innocence, please last. There can be no

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Speaker 4: heaven without hell. There's no light without.

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Speaker 5: Meeting I am darkness.

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Speaker 3: All right. If you want to go out and watch Legend, well,

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Speaker 3: you can stream, And I'm mostly speaking of the US

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Speaker 3: situation here. I'm not sure what availability is like in Europe, where,

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Speaker 3: of course there was a theatrical cut, but at least

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Speaker 3: here in the United States you can stream Legend in

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Speaker 3: a number of places. You can buy it rent it digitally,

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Speaker 3: but at least currently for the director's cut, you'll need

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Speaker 3: to hunt that up on disc. Fortunately, there's a great

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Speaker 3: Arrow Blu ray of the film that features both the

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Speaker 3: US theatrical cut and the director's cut, plus loads of extras.

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Speaker 3: This is the version that I rented for video.

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Speaker 1: Dr Yeah, I watched the Arrow Blu ray and Robert,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you had the same thought to me.

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Speaker 1: I was kind of surprised by how much grain it

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Speaker 1: still felt like there was in the film, Like it

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Speaker 1: seemed like something that would or could have been sharpened

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Speaker 1: up a good bit, but it wasn't, and I don't

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Speaker 1: know if that's for lack of effort or if that's

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Speaker 1: an intentional choice about this release.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I wouldn't sure about that either. I'm not tech

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Speaker 3: savvy enough on their whole remastering scenario. But certainly we've

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Speaker 3: seen some older films that have been remastered to like

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Speaker 3: just a level of perfection that that that certainly influences

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Speaker 3: your viewing of other films. You know, why why aren't

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Speaker 3: other films as flawless looking as this one? So I

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Speaker 3: don't know what exactly, you know, the choices or hurdles

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Speaker 3: were with this one, but there was more grain than

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Speaker 3: I expected, But still it did not get in the

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Speaker 3: way of appreciating these visuals in the long run.

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Speaker 1: No, I almost wonder if it's a oh, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: kind of a film version of like t staining a

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Speaker 1: document to make it look ancient, you know, that if

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Speaker 1: maybe there was a concern that if it was sharpened

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Speaker 1: up too much, it wouldn't have the kind of the dreamy,

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Speaker 1: fairy tale effect that they were going for.

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Speaker 3: I wonder if these you know, i'd have to go

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Speaker 3: back and rewatch, but I wonder if these were some

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Speaker 3: of the restored segments in the director's cut. I know,

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Speaker 3: sometimes there's a sourcing issue there and you have to

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Speaker 3: sort of make do with what you can get when

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Speaker 3: you're restoring sequences and scenes that were not used in

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Speaker 3: like the main cut.

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Speaker 1: Of the film. Possibly.

433
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:13,920
Speaker 3: All right, let's get into the people involved in this one,

434
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:16,359
Speaker 3: starting at the top, of course, with Sir Ridley Scott

435
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:20,680
Speaker 3: born nineteen thirty seven, highly successful and influential English filmmaker who,

436
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:23,919
Speaker 3: at eighty six years old and turns eighty seven in

437
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:27,320
Speaker 3: just a few months, shows no signs of slowing down

438
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 3: on his directing and producing. I mean, it's really quite uninspiring.

439
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:35,040
Speaker 3: He worked on projects as a TV production designer from

440
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 3: nineteen sixty two through nineteen sixty five, and his first

441
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 3: directorial credit was a nineteen sixty five episode of a

442
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:43,880
Speaker 3: police series in the UK called Z Cars.

443
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:46,880
Speaker 1: Sounds great. Yeah.

444
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:51,159
Speaker 3: His debut film was, of course, nineteen seventy sevens The Duelists,

445
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:55,880
Speaker 3: starring Keith Carrodine, Harvey Kaiitel and Albert Finney, a serious

446
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:59,679
Speaker 3: historical drama that is cited as a key inspiration on Highlander.

447
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:01,959
Speaker 1: I've wanted to see this for years, but I never have.

448
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:04,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, this one kind of ends up falling through the

449
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:07,399
Speaker 3: cracks for me because it is it's a Ridley Scott

450
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,359
Speaker 3: period piece. And I mean I have seen some of

451
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:14,159
Speaker 3: his historical films. Of course, I've seen Gladiator, but I

452
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:15,800
Speaker 3: don't know, They're just not the ones that I'm drawn

453
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,160
Speaker 3: to as much. So he followed this up, of course,

454
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:21,120
Speaker 3: in nineteen seventy nine with Alien and then in eighty

455
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:24,640
Speaker 3: two with Blade Runner. He tackled some smaller projects during

456
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:28,240
Speaker 3: that time, including the Apple Mac nineteen eighty four commercial,

457
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:33,679
Speaker 3: and so already a really strong, genre heavy early career,

458
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,639
Speaker 3: and then comes Legend, a fairy tale, a fantasy, and

459
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,679
Speaker 3: this of course ends up proving a commercial failure upon release,

460
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 3: and from here we see Ridley Scott veer off into

461
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 3: historical crime and drama pictures. He doesn't return to science

462
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 3: fiction or fantasy for twenty seven years, returning to the

463
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 3: Alien franchise with Prometheus in twenty twelve, and then he

464
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:58,640
Speaker 3: did twenty fifteen's The Martian, which it is quite good

465
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 3: as well, based on the novel, and then he did

466
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:06,719
Speaker 3: twenty seventeen's Alien Covenant and two episodes of The Super Weird,

467
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:11,960
Speaker 3: very original and criminally canceled Max series Raised by Wolves,

468
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,639
Speaker 3: which he also produced. Now as a producer, he's also

469
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 3: had a hand in many other great films and series,

470
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 3: including including AMC's The Terror, which I really enjoyed. The

471
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 3: recent alien Romulus is of course a Scott free production,

472
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 3: and Academy Award nominations for Ridley Scott include nineteen ninety

473
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,200
Speaker 3: two's Film and Louise, two thousand and ones Gladiator, two

474
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:37,640
Speaker 3: thousand and two's Blackhawk Down, and twenty sixteen's The Martian.

475
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 3: I should note that Ridley Scott, as far as I

476
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 3: can tell, has never directed what you'd truly call a

477
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 3: kids movie or maybe even a family movie. This really

478
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:50,879
Speaker 3: Legend from eighty five is really the best case you

479
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 3: can make for either category. But at the same time,

480
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,880
Speaker 3: it is just way too dark, both visually and thematically

481
00:26:57,920 --> 00:26:58,480
Speaker 3: for children.

482
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:01,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is who this is one of those who

483
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 1: is this for movies? I mean, I don't have a

484
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 1: problem enjoying it, because I'm the kind of adult that

485
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:10,000
Speaker 1: can enjoy a fairy tale, but it is clearly it's

486
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,720
Speaker 1: a fairy tale which is going to make a lot

487
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,480
Speaker 1: of adults think, oh, this movie is not meant for me.

488
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 1: And while the movie. It doesn't have a lot of

489
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 1: like explicit like sex or violence in it. It really

490
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:27,879
Speaker 1: doesn't seem appropriate for kids because of the way that

491
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 1: it is. I don't know, it has kind of erotic undercurrents,

492
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:37,120
Speaker 1: and it has a lot of very scary suggestions of violence,

493
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 1: even if you're not seeing explicit like blood and guts

494
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 1: on screen.

495
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, and also a subtext that I'll get back to

496
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:47,959
Speaker 3: that seems to deal with with sin and shame. Yeah,

497
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 3: in ways that I just don't feel as fun for

498
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 3: you know, ten and twelve year.

499
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 1: Olds, right, So it's like it's a fairy tale but

500
00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:01,399
Speaker 1: not probably not appropriate for kids. So you're limiting your

501
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:03,160
Speaker 1: audience here. Yeah.

502
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:03,680
Speaker 4: Now.

503
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 3: The screenwriter on this one was William Hertzberg, who lived

504
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,360
Speaker 3: nineteen forty one through twenty seventeen American writer, best known

505
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,920
Speaker 3: for his work on this film, as well as as

506
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 3: his nineteen seventy eight horror novel Falling Angel that was

507
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,679
Speaker 3: adapted into the nineteen eighty seven Alan Parker movie Angel Heart.

508
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 3: I did read this book ages ago, and I remember

509
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:23,719
Speaker 3: liking it. I remember liking it more than I liked

510
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:27,880
Speaker 3: the actual film, all right. Now, getting into the cast, Yes,

511
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 3: this is a Tom Cruise movie. But it's also not

512
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 3: a Tom Cruise movie in the sense that it from

513
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 3: the modern perspective of what you expect from a Tom

514
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 3: Cruise movie. It's not that it's something different, it's something

515
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:40,880
Speaker 3: a little it's like proto Tom Cruise movie.

516
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 1: This is from before Tom Cruise was Tom Cruise. I

517
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 1: mean he was a star at this time, I think

518
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 1: because he'd already been in risky business.

519
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 3: Right, that's correct.

520
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, so he was like a young actor who'd

521
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 1: been in at least one or two big movies, So

522
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 1: like he wasn't a nobody at the time, but he

523
00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 1: also was not like the Hollywood juggernaut that we know today.

524
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 1: He was like a young, up and coming, good looking actor.

525
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean today, Tom Cruise is someone that is

526
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 3: known around the world. He's like one of, if not

527
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 3: the most bankable stars in Hollywood. You know, you put

528
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 3: him in Blockbusters, that's where he lives as his ecosystem,

529
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 3: and he's one of these people too that it's like

530
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 3: he's more industry than man. You almost don't think of

531
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:26,320
Speaker 3: Tom Cruise as an individual, but he's like an industry

532
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 3: built around somebody that is almost as much myths as human,

533
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 3: if not more myth than human, at least from our perspective.

534
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 3: Outside of that.

535
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, speaking of built around, I mean now, I think

536
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 1: some of his movies they build around some stunts he

537
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 1: wants to do. He's like, so he'll be a producer

538
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 1: on the movie. He's like, here, I'm going to cling

539
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 1: to the side of an airplane or something. Write a

540
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 1: script around that. Yeah.

541
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 3: So Legend was only his seventh film role. His debut

542
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 3: part was in nineteen eighty one's Endless Love, and he

543
00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 3: also had a supporting role in Taps the same year,

544
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 3: but two he had a starring role in the team

545
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 3: comedy Losing It, and nineteen eighty three was a real

546
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 3: breakout year with parts in Francis Ford Coppola's The Outsiders

547
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 3: and the starring role in both Risky Business and the

548
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 3: football movie All the Right Moves. So the time was

549
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 3: right for Tom Cruise to do a genre film, but

550
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:22,760
Speaker 3: not a B movie, you know, not a not a

551
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 3: B sci fi or horror movie on your Way Up,

552
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 3: but I know, a lavish, twenty five million dollar epic

553
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 3: that of course wouldn't quite break even at the box office.

554
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 3: So the next year he would go on to star

555
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 3: in the mega hit Top Gun, and I guess his

556
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 3: legacy was assured at that point. But then again, it's

557
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 3: kind of with Tom Cruise. It's easy to say that

558
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 3: because he has proven to have this real staying power

559
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 3: in Hollywood and has remained this juggernaut despite you know,

560
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 3: various things popping up that would you know, you might

561
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 3: expect to derail some careers, or certainly the occasional film

562
00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 3: that doesn't deliver to the degree that producers would like.

563
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 3: For the most part, he has remained stable up there

564
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:05,360
Speaker 3: and is still big business.

565
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, So from what I understand, apart from weird movie connoisseurs,

566
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 1: if you're just looking at it from the kind of

567
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 1: Hollywood business point of view, I think Legend would have

568
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 1: long been mainly regarded as a as an early misstep

569
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:24,080
Speaker 1: in the career of Tom Cruise. You know, it's just

570
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 1: like a this was some weird, failed little movie that

571
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 1: Tom Cruise did early on that critics hated and audiences

572
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 1: hated too, and just didn't go anywhere. But then he

573
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 1: corrected course and was in Top Gun.

574
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 3: Though it is kind of interesting that I don't think

575
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 3: he would come back to any genre pictures like this

576
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 3: for a while, though he would in time come back

577
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 3: and do you know at least some weirder and sci

578
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 3: fi type material, but still very much like blockbuster angled

579
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 3: material at the same time. But that was the case

580
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 3: with this film as well. This film was meant to

581
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 3: be a big success at the box office. That's why

582
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 3: they spent twenty five million dollars on it.

583
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: Wait, is this the first time we've talked about either

584
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 1: Tom Cruise or Ridley Scott on Weird House?

585
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 3: The first time they've come up that we've looked at

586
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 3: something they were either involved with. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so

587
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 3: they're both you know, huge mainstream successes. Though when Ridley

588
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:19,959
Speaker 3: wants to go weird, he definitely I think goes weirder

589
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 3: than Tom Cruise goes weird.

590
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, in terms of movie plots.

591
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 3: Yes, And part of this too is like, what is

592
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 3: Tom Cruise's role in a picture? It is the leading man,

593
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 3: and it has always been the leading man with you know,

594
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 3: a few small caveats along the way, you know, you're

595
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 3: only going to go so weird in that kind of

596
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 3: role that Tom Cruise plays. Well, maybe there's an alternate

597
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:44,280
Speaker 3: dimension where he ends up playing a bunch of villains

598
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 3: and it's really fascinating as well. I don't know, but anyway,

599
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 3: Cruise was twenty three at the time, and we should

600
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 3: acknowledge that he was, I think, by many estimates, dangerously hot.

601
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 3: I was looking around for some like outside the podcast

602
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 3: commentary on this, and I found some words from the

603
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:06,640
Speaker 3: blogger Jin at ep bot dot com, who has a

604
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 3: post titled Legend, the thirty six year old movie that's

605
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 3: a love letter to Tom Cruise's thighs and other thoughts.

606
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 1: I could not help but notice that the camera is

607
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 1: all up in Tom Cruise's upper thighs. Yes, it's uh yeah,

608
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 1: So they gave him a costume like once he gets

609
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:30,960
Speaker 1: his armor on, it's basically like a short tunic. He

610
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 1: wears no pants most of the movie, and just yeah,

611
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 1: it's it's all up in his haunches.

612
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 3: Here's here's a quote from that post by Jen at

613
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 3: epbot dot com. Tom Cruise was twenty two during filming,

614
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 3: and fresh off the set of Risky Business, the movie

615
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:48,240
Speaker 3: that gave us the world famous underwear dance. Not to

616
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:50,959
Speaker 3: be outdone, the producers of Legend decided Tom would not

617
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 3: only be pantiless the entire movie, he would also be

618
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 3: prohibited from walking upright for most of it.

619
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 1: I noticed the same thing. He is like squatting or

620
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 1: crawling or on the ground in nearly every shot of

621
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 1: the movie.

622
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I guess part of this is that he

623
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 3: is kind of like a feral creature, you know, especially

624
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:13,279
Speaker 3: early on, like he is a he's a boy of

625
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:16,879
Speaker 3: the woods. He's kind of a Peter Pan. Yeah, he's

626
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:20,840
Speaker 3: a little loopine, So I guess that's part of the

627
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 3: whole attraction here. I also want to note that this

628
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 3: is Cruz prebracest, So he doesn't have that perfect Hollywood

629
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,280
Speaker 3: smile yet, but he has like he has a smile

630
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 3: befitting of a fair young man in a fantasy world,

631
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 3: which I think is perfect. He also has like a

632
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 3: bit of a unibrow going on, like not a full unibrow,

633
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 3: but like his brows are a little more connected, you know,

634
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 3: he's which again is also perfect for a fairal young

635
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,360
Speaker 3: man running around the woods falling in love with princesses.

636
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 1: I guess.

637
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 3: So, speaking of that princess, the princess is of course

638
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 3: played by Mia Sara born in nineteen sixty seven. This

639
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:00,439
Speaker 3: is Lily, and we talked about her previous on Weird

640
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 3: House Cinema because she was in nineteen ninety four's Time Cop.

641
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:03,479
Speaker 5: Ah.

642
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 1: Yes, I was thinking, this is not our first Mia

643
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:06,280
Speaker 1: Sarah film.

644
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, this was. This was her first film role, following

645
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 3: up just of one shot I think on TV's All

646
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:15,360
Speaker 3: in the Family, Legend and Labyrinth were shooting next to

647
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 3: each other at the same time here, and the casts

648
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:20,719
Speaker 3: and crew apparently frequently mingled, And this is where she

649
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 3: would meet her future husband Brian Henson.

650
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 1: Oh, okay, but was she in Time Cop? Yes, she was.

651
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:28,320
Speaker 1: So you can go back and check out our episode

652
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,320
Speaker 1: on Time Cop if you want. Now. Is this also

653
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:33,760
Speaker 1: our first Tim Curry movie on Weird House?

654
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 3: This is the first time we have gotten to talk

655
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:39,920
Speaker 3: about Tim Curry. There was a time when you were

656
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 3: out in Parental Leave and Annie Reese came on the

657
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:44,839
Speaker 3: show and we talked about Congo, Oh my.

658
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 1: Lord, where he plays her Kimerhamolka, the formerly of Romania,

659
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:51,400
Speaker 1: traveling the world and doing good.

660
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 3: Yes, another great scene chewing performance, but not as the

661
00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 3: primary antagonist, second or third level antagon.

662
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:03,200
Speaker 1: Tim Curry in Congo is one of the most hilarious

663
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 1: movie acting jobs I can think of ever. He is.

664
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 1: I love Tim Curry. He is just a delight every time.

665
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, he plays darkness in this Born nineteen forty six. Yeah,

666
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:19,800
Speaker 3: just a true legend stage, screen and TV. He was,

667
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 3: of course doctor Frankenfurter in The Rocky Horror Picture Show

668
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 3: back in nineteen seventy five, and was in the original

669
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:28,439
Speaker 3: stage version as well. He was Wadsworth in nineteen eighty

670
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 3: five's Clue. Other memorable films and Clue, Let's see There's Annie.

671
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:35,400
Speaker 3: There's the nineteen ninety adaptation of it, in which he

672
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 3: played penny Wise, the dancing clown. And he's also done

673
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 3: a great deal of voice work over the years, I know,

674
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:42,759
Speaker 3: outside of weird House cinema. You and I have also

675
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 3: discussed his triple role in the Tales from the Crypt

676
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 3: episode Death of Some Salesman.

677
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:52,240
Speaker 1: Oh, where he terrorizes Ed Begley Junior. Right, Ed Begley Junior.

678
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 1: Is he's like some kind of corrupt salesman or something.

679
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, but yeah, obviously just a terrific all round performer.

680
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:02,360
Speaker 3: Been in a share of more than his share of

681
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:04,400
Speaker 3: bad movies as well, but some of the other like

682
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 3: credits worth noting nineteen ninety is The Hunt for the

683
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:10,279
Speaker 3: Red October nineteen ninety two's fern Gully, ninety three's The

684
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:13,319
Speaker 3: Three Musketeers, ninety four is The Shadow, and nineteen ninety

685
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:16,279
Speaker 3: six is Muppet Treasure Island. But like, even if it's

686
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:19,920
Speaker 3: a not a great film, you know that Tim Curry

687
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:21,880
Speaker 3: is going to be amusing in it no matter what.

688
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 1: Now, this movie makes an interesting decision, which is a legend.

689
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 1: Takes a solid gold character actor with charm for Miles

690
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:35,920
Speaker 1: and hides him behind forty seven pounds of makeup. He

691
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:39,239
Speaker 1: is under so much makeup in this movie it is

692
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:42,880
Speaker 1: hard to believe. And the makeup I think looks amazing.

693
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's an interesting way to like there's a

694
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:48,759
Speaker 1: trade off here, isn't there. It's almost like maybe they

695
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:53,839
Speaker 1: did have to cast somebody with Tim Curry's you know,

696
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:57,400
Speaker 1: kind of not just screen presence, but stage presence almost

697
00:37:57,400 --> 00:37:59,720
Speaker 1: like it's almost like it requires a type of stage

698
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 1: act to get through the makeup to the camera. Does

699
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:03,760
Speaker 1: that make sense?

700
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 3: Yeah? Absolutely. I think it is a huge testament to

701
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 3: both Curry and the effects crew that this works as

702
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 3: tremendously well as it does. That it doesn't feel like

703
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 3: you've buried Tim Curry and a bunch of prosthetics that

704
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 3: you know that it doesn't feel like you have something

705
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:25,360
Speaker 3: that only works in close up shots or something like.

706
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 3: They managed to make this feel like a cohesive living

707
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 3: being as opposed to know what it could have been.

708
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 1: Of course, Tim Curry plays the main villain in the movie.

709
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 1: I don't know if we already said this, but he

710
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,520
Speaker 1: is like the devil essentially, he's the lord of darkness

711
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 1: and he has I don't know how long do you

712
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:45,160
Speaker 1: think his horns are. I mean, he's got so much

713
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:48,080
Speaker 1: horn on his head it looks like his neck muscles

714
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:48,799
Speaker 1: should be sore.

715
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:51,640
Speaker 3: It is. I mean, if you haven't seen it, do

716
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:55,319
Speaker 3: look up at least images of this character, because it

717
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:59,160
Speaker 3: is essentially an outrageous red devil men a tar that

718
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:01,840
Speaker 3: it feels like it's about eight feet tall, not counting

719
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 3: the horns. So it is a bold design choice and

720
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:07,920
Speaker 3: they manage to make it work.

721
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:17,759
Speaker 1: You know who else in this movie I feel like

722
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:22,120
Speaker 1: really acts through heavy makeup and just shines right through

723
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:26,720
Speaker 1: a character design is Alice Playton as blicks.

724
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:29,640
Speaker 3: Yes, Oh my god, she's so good in this. She

725
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 3: lived nineteen forty seven through twenty eleven. Stage actor with

726
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:35,359
Speaker 3: a lot of Broadway and off Broadway credit its TV

727
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:38,799
Speaker 3: and film credits going back to sixty three, but she's

728
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:42,680
Speaker 3: often best remembered for her voice because she has this

729
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:45,920
Speaker 3: this kind of childlike voice that she can utilize, and

730
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:49,960
Speaker 3: she can perfectly lean into really haunting an uncanny territory

731
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:52,719
Speaker 3: with it. She voiced a demon in nineteen eighty two

732
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 3: Amityville to the Possession. She has also voice credits and

733
00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:59,439
Speaker 3: things like nineteen eighty one's Heavy Metal nineteen eighty six

734
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 3: is My Little Pony the movie. She was also in

735
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 3: twelve episodes of The Croft Super Show in seventy six.

736
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:10,320
Speaker 3: But yeah, in this she plays the scheming goblin blicks

737
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:14,920
Speaker 3: like just a perfect goblin that also has an outrageous

738
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 3: design in play, you know, with the long nose and

739
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 3: like elongated head, just so nasty, so vicious looking, and

740
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:25,439
Speaker 3: she just shines here.

741
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 1: Appears to be made of rot in a way, almost

742
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:33,760
Speaker 1: kind of an undead looking sort of goblin, and also

743
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:37,359
Speaker 1: speaks in rhyming couplets, which I love. I would say

744
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:41,399
Speaker 1: that you know it's weird because we were saying. The

745
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 1: way in which this movie falls short, despite all of

746
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:49,880
Speaker 1: its great elements, is in its cohesiveness as a story.

747
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:53,480
Speaker 1: So you might think from that the script is weak,

748
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:56,959
Speaker 1: but actually I think the moment to moment, line to line,

749
00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:00,319
Speaker 1: the script is pretty strong. Like the dialogue is good.

750
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:03,080
Speaker 1: And so this character speaks in rhyming couplets that are

751
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 1: mostly I think, great rhyming couplets. They're very pleasing when so,

752
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:11,360
Speaker 1: like when Blicks is looking down on Princess Lily, he says,

753
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 1: may be innocent, maybe sweet, ain't half as nice as

754
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:19,000
Speaker 1: rotting meat, And Clayton really sells the couplets, like I

755
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 1: just believe that this is how Blix talks.

756
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:26,440
Speaker 3: Yes, and indeed like just such a goblin, like just

757
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 3: delights in grotesqueness and depravity but not but not within

758
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:34,600
Speaker 3: like without any underlying argument for why that is the

759
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:38,359
Speaker 3: superior choice. It's just that is just the texture of

760
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 3: Blix's life and Blix's values, and Blix is very vocal

761
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:46,359
Speaker 3: about his his preferences here.

762
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:47,320
Speaker 1: Yeah.

763
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 3: Now, interestingly enough, I mentioned that that Alice Clayton's voice

764
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:55,160
Speaker 3: like it has this she can lean into these uncanny aspects,

765
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:57,560
Speaker 3: but she can also get kind of like a childlike

766
00:41:57,719 --> 00:42:01,840
Speaker 3: voice going on as well. She actually dubs the character

767
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:03,359
Speaker 3: Honeythorn Gump.

768
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:07,240
Speaker 1: Oh picture, Okay, that makes sense. Honey Thorn Gump.

769
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:11,879
Speaker 3: Is our elf, our youthful elf guy who's helping out,

770
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:16,480
Speaker 3: played physically here by David Bennett born nineteen sixty six,

771
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:19,319
Speaker 3: a German actor at the time eighteen or nineteen years old,

772
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 3: but he looks younger, and yeah, we don't hear his

773
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 3: actual voice. I've read that producers thought he sounded too German,

774
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:28,719
Speaker 3: which I'm kind of like, why did you cast a

775
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:33,160
Speaker 3: German actor? Didn't want him to sound potentially German? But anyway,

776
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:36,680
Speaker 3: Bennett is still really good in this is still a

777
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:39,800
Speaker 3: very good physical performance even though we don't hear his voice,

778
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:43,600
Speaker 3: and he's been working in German productions for ages, still

779
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:46,919
Speaker 3: active now, started out at an early age. His other

780
00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:51,640
Speaker 3: like big international credit is probably nineteen seventy nine's The

781
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:52,320
Speaker 3: ten Drum.

782
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:55,440
Speaker 1: I think the job they did dubbing him. I didn't

783
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:57,720
Speaker 1: realize while I was watching that that was also Alice

784
00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:01,080
Speaker 1: Playton doing his voice. But I think the ubbing is fantastic.

785
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:06,759
Speaker 1: It totally matches the pace of the character speaking, and

786
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:12,920
Speaker 1: instead of feeling uncanny and unpleasant, as some post production

787
00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:17,960
Speaker 1: dubbing without live sound can be, instead it fits the

788
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:21,319
Speaker 1: character the way that his voice doesn't feel like it's

789
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:23,319
Speaker 1: coming like it's what should be coming out of his

790
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:26,920
Speaker 1: mouth works and makes him feel more kind of magical.

791
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would agree, I would agree. So, yeah, it

792
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:31,920
Speaker 3: didn't throw me off. It's one of those things I

793
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:35,239
Speaker 3: only picked up on much later reading about the production. Yeah,

794
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:38,919
Speaker 3: all right, now, I want to probably try and speed

795
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:40,360
Speaker 3: things along here a little bit, so I'm going to

796
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:42,799
Speaker 3: spend less time than I should, perhaps on some of

797
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:46,040
Speaker 3: the additional cast members. We have a number of various

798
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:49,320
Speaker 3: Elvin folk that are involved in the plot. For instance,

799
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:53,359
Speaker 3: they're Screwball, played by the tremendous Billy Bardi, who lived

800
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:56,439
Speaker 3: nineteen twenty four to through the year two thousand, three

801
00:43:56,480 --> 00:44:00,319
Speaker 3: foot nine character actor who often played wise, cracking, little

802
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 3: person roles, but he instantly stands out in any ensemble

803
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:06,279
Speaker 3: cast because he is at the heart just a tremendous

804
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:10,280
Speaker 3: character actor. His uncredited work goes back to I believe

805
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:13,719
Speaker 3: nineteen thirty and apparently includes a very small part as

806
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:16,840
Speaker 3: the baby in nineteen thirty five's Bride of Frankenstein. So

807
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:19,360
Speaker 3: one of those early scenes with the little miniature people

808
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:20,360
Speaker 3: in the vials.

809
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:22,600
Speaker 1: Wow, I didn't realize that so.

810
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 3: Many credits to Billy Bardy, but they include the likes

811
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:29,040
Speaker 3: of Roger Corman's The Undead in nineteen fifty seven, nineteen

812
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:31,920
Speaker 3: eighty seven's Masters of the Universe film. He has a

813
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:34,719
Speaker 3: memorable role in that. He's in eighty eight Willow, but

814
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:36,640
Speaker 3: he also did some voice acting as well, like nineteen

815
00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:40,239
Speaker 3: nine he's the rescuers down under. All right, some of

816
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:42,440
Speaker 3: the other folks here. We have Brown Tom, who I

817
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:44,560
Speaker 3: guess is kind of a leprechaun. He's part of the

818
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:48,800
Speaker 3: good guy Elvin Krk here. He's played by Cork Hubert,

819
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:51,160
Speaker 3: who lived nineteen fifty two through two thousand and three.

820
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:54,680
Speaker 3: A four foot eleven actor. His other credits include eighty

821
00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:57,920
Speaker 3: one's cave Man under the Rainbow from eighty one and

822
00:44:58,040 --> 00:44:59,880
Speaker 3: nineteen eighty nine sent Bat of the Seven Seas.

823
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:03,640
Speaker 1: He has a real dad joke moment in the movie

824
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:05,720
Speaker 1: that I think works pretty well. Yeah.

825
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:09,160
Speaker 3: There's also there's a scene where he thinks he's been shot.

826
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:10,799
Speaker 1: That's what I'm talking about.

827
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:14,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love that. That's great. Okay, all right,

828
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:18,320
Speaker 3: we have Pox. Pox is a pig demon and somewhere

829
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:20,880
Speaker 3: underneath all of the prosthetics for this role there is

830
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:24,240
Speaker 3: a man by the name of Peter O'Farrell. I couldn't

831
00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:26,840
Speaker 3: find any additional information about this actor in terms of

832
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:30,040
Speaker 3: his you know, when he was born and so forth.

833
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:32,440
Speaker 3: But his other credits include nineteen eighty has Hawk the Slayer,

834
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:36,080
Speaker 3: nineteen eighty five Santa Claus, and he has a role

835
00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:37,440
Speaker 3: in two thousand and two is Harry Potter and the

836
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 3: Chamber of Secrets. All right, we also have Blunder. We'll

837
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:43,799
Speaker 3: get into Blunder in a bit. He's kind of he's

838
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:47,840
Speaker 3: one faction then another. But he's played by Kieran Shaw

839
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:50,920
Speaker 3: born nineteen fifty six, a four foot one and a

840
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:55,160
Speaker 3: half tall actor who is Elijah Woods scale double in

841
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:57,640
Speaker 3: all three Lord of the Rings films. His other credits

842
00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:00,359
Speaker 3: include two thousand and five's The Chronicles of Narnia, Star

843
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 3: Wars Productions, The Dark Crystal and Raiders of the Last Art.

844
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:07,560
Speaker 3: We also have a fairy Una played by Annabelle Lanyon

845
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:10,759
Speaker 3: born nineteen sixty British actress who has worked a lot

846
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:13,719
Speaker 3: in TV. She's temperamental tinker Bell.

847
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:16,520
Speaker 1: She doesn't want you don't get to know about what

848
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:18,840
Speaker 1: her powers are. That's that's for her to decide.

849
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:23,000
Speaker 3: Yes, Oh, and then we've talked about this. This is

850
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:26,239
Speaker 3: a character that it comes up every now and then

851
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:29,200
Speaker 3: on the show pretty much anytime we're talking about hags,

852
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:32,400
Speaker 3: because oh we have such a hag in legend. The

853
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:36,520
Speaker 3: character is Meg Mucklebones and the actor underneath there, and

854
00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:39,160
Speaker 3: also I think doing a great job shining through and

855
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:45,480
Speaker 3: making this a living being is Robert Picardo really? Yeah? Yeah,

856
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:47,480
Speaker 3: we talked about him previously in our episode on Joe

857
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:51,960
Speaker 3: Dante's Grimlins too, because he's like the he's like one

858
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:57,160
Speaker 3: of the executives there that ends up marrying the lady Grimlin.

859
00:46:57,280 --> 00:47:00,239
Speaker 1: Right, Oh, yes, that's right, Yes, what a what a

860
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:03,680
Speaker 1: beautiful marriage? Yes? But he what is he? Is he

861
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:07,120
Speaker 1: like a coach on The Wonder Years, Jim Teacher or something?

862
00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:08,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, some sort of role like that. I wonder

863
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 3: he's been a while since seeing that he was on

864
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:13,000
Speaker 3: China Beach, But most I think people would know him

865
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:16,000
Speaker 3: from like Star Trek Voyager. He's like the hologram guy

866
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:18,680
Speaker 3: on there. But his other film credits include eighty one's

867
00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:22,279
Speaker 3: The Howling, eighty seven's Inner Space. Oh, he's Johnny cab

868
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:25,160
Speaker 3: in nineteen ninety's Total Recall, And he also has a

869
00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:27,800
Speaker 3: role in the twenty sixteen Coen Brothers film Hail Caesar.

870
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:30,040
Speaker 1: The Door Opened. You got in.

871
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:34,920
Speaker 3: Richard O'Brien what was apparently considered for this role, and

872
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:37,880
Speaker 3: that's what led them to realizing that Curry would be

873
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:38,960
Speaker 3: perfect for darkness.

874
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 1: Wow.

875
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:42,359
Speaker 3: All right, some behind the scenes people worth noting here.

876
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:46,240
Speaker 3: Production design Hashton Gordon, who lived nineteen thirty through twenty fourteen,

877
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:48,440
Speaker 3: worked on such films as nineteen sixty six Is a

878
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:51,400
Speaker 3: Blow Up, nineteen seventy one's Get Carter in two thousands,

879
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:54,480
Speaker 3: Shadow of the Vampire. The director of photography was Alex Thompson,

880
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:56,600
Speaker 3: who lived nineteen twenty nine through two thousand and seven.

881
00:47:56,840 --> 00:47:59,879
Speaker 3: Regular camera operator for Nicholas Rogue in the nineteen sixty

882
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:04,080
Speaker 3: before becoming a director of photography in nineteen sixty eight.

883
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:06,800
Speaker 3: Nominated for an oscar for his work on the nineteen

884
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:10,600
Speaker 3: eighty two John Borman epic ex Caliber, which I think

885
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:14,040
Speaker 3: that shows there's definitely some great scenes in this with

886
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:17,279
Speaker 3: the lighting and shiny armor that made me think about Excalibur.

887
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:22,040
Speaker 1: Yeah. You've mentioned Excalibur before as a movie that is gleaming, yes,

888
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:25,200
Speaker 1: and yeah, we have some gleaming armor in this one

889
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:25,600
Speaker 1: as well.

890
00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:29,560
Speaker 3: Thompson's other cinematography credits include Doctor Fibes Rises Again, which

891
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:32,480
Speaker 3: we've talked about on the show Deathline from the same

892
00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:35,239
Speaker 3: year in nineteen seventy two, Michael Man's The Keep from

893
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:38,240
Speaker 3: eighty three, Electric Dreams in eighty four, Labyrinth in nineteen

894
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:40,360
Speaker 3: eighty six, which is like right next door, So I

895
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:43,959
Speaker 3: guess he's just walking back and forth Leviathan in eighty nine,

896
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 3: Alien three and ninety two, Demolition Man in ninety three,

897
00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:50,680
Speaker 3: and Hamlet in nineteen ninety six. Who you called this

898
00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:56,360
Speaker 3: one out, Joe? What credit stood up to you?

899
00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:58,520
Speaker 1: It's just because I saw it in the credits as

900
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:01,799
Speaker 1: it was rolling by. So we have somebody named Vic

901
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:05,799
Speaker 1: Armstrong as he was given two titles. I don't remember

902
00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:07,920
Speaker 1: what the first one was, but the second one was

903
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:09,320
Speaker 1: Unicorn Master.

904
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:12,880
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, it's not often you have a Unicorn Master

905
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:15,839
Speaker 3: on set, but yeah, that's Vick Armstrong. He was also

906
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:20,400
Speaker 3: the stunt coordinator born nineteen forty six, Very Prolific. Guinness

907
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:23,080
Speaker 3: Book of World Records has listed him as the most

908
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:27,440
Speaker 3: prolific like stunt coordinator, but his earliest role is apparently

909
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:30,880
Speaker 3: an uncredited Ninja extra part in nineteen sixty seven's You

910
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:32,120
Speaker 3: Only Live Twice.

911
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:34,719
Speaker 1: Oh, recently came up in our Ninja episodes.

912
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:38,160
Speaker 3: Yep, he's still working well. The costumes in this are

913
00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:42,120
Speaker 3: pretty great. Costume designer and this was Charles Node. He

914
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:45,200
Speaker 3: lived nineteen forty two through twenty twenty three, English costume

915
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:48,200
Speaker 3: designer whose work includes nineteen seventy nine's Life of Brian,

916
00:49:48,239 --> 00:49:51,520
Speaker 3: the Munty Python film, Blade Runner fourteen ninety two, The

917
00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:55,399
Speaker 3: Conquest of Paradise, another Ridley Scott film. Oh, and then

918
00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:56,600
Speaker 3: Braveheart from ninety five.

919
00:49:57,080 --> 00:49:59,680
Speaker 1: Costumes are great, you could mention a number of them.

920
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:07,319
Speaker 1: Mia Sarah's goth gown is just the triangular color hood thing.

921
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:09,640
Speaker 1: I don't know what that is, but it's great.

922
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:13,200
Speaker 3: Yes, Yeah, and then everything that Jack is wearing, from

923
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:16,640
Speaker 3: his the rags that he's wearing initially like the feral rags,

924
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:21,040
Speaker 3: to the like gleaming Elven armor that he dons for

925
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:24,759
Speaker 3: the main adventure portion of the picture. Yeah, but then

926
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:27,160
Speaker 3: again we have to come back to the special effects

927
00:50:27,239 --> 00:50:29,920
Speaker 3: makeup and the special effects makeup lead on this was

928
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:33,880
Speaker 3: Rob Botein, who've talked about on the show before. The

929
00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:37,440
Speaker 3: Rob Botin crew as well various people working with and

930
00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:40,439
Speaker 3: for him on this. He was born nineteen fifty nine,

931
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:45,320
Speaker 3: special makeup practical effects wizard who worked on such films

932
00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:48,480
Speaker 3: as Squirm in seventy six, Star Wars in seventy seven,

933
00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:51,640
Speaker 3: The Howling The Thing from eighty two, the John Carpenter

934
00:50:51,719 --> 00:50:54,480
Speaker 3: version Robocot from eighty seven. I think we talked about

935
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:58,760
Speaker 3: him in that one as well. Total Recall from nineteen ninety.

936
00:50:59,239 --> 00:51:05,719
Speaker 3: Just capable of such phenomenally nasty, fleshy work. And you know,

937
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:08,480
Speaker 3: it's hard to imagine this picture with anyone else. It

938
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:11,280
Speaker 3: would be a different picture if anyone else had done

939
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:12,600
Speaker 3: the makeup effects.

940
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:16,759
Speaker 1: Now, wait, so Robert Piccardo played the Johnny Cab. Did

941
00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:19,400
Speaker 1: Rob Bottin make the Johnny Cab in Total Recall?

942
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:21,680
Speaker 3: Oh, that's a good question. I don't know for certain

943
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:24,920
Speaker 3: on that, because I mean, we know for certain some

944
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:28,360
Speaker 3: of the things that Rob Botein was doing on Total Recall,

945
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:31,480
Speaker 3: you know, but I'm not sure about Johnny Cab. But

946
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:33,479
Speaker 3: I guess it very likely.

947
00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:36,200
Speaker 1: How to split my time between a quatto and a

948
00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:36,920
Speaker 1: Johnny Cab?

949
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:40,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, he was definitely on quata duty, all right. Now,

950
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:43,879
Speaker 3: coming to the music, this film Fade famously features those

951
00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:49,040
Speaker 3: two separate scores. There's the original Jerry Goldsmith's score, and

952
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:51,160
Speaker 3: this is the one that is used in the original

953
00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:55,000
Speaker 3: euro theatrical release of the picture. But then for the

954
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:59,520
Speaker 3: US theatrical release, they brought in Tangerine Dream to do

955
00:51:59,680 --> 00:52:03,719
Speaker 3: a new score for the film. Now, I, of course,

956
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:05,600
Speaker 3: is what we've been saying. Grew up on the Tangerine

957
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:08,560
Speaker 3: Dream score, and I think it's absolutely excellent. I listened

958
00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:10,560
Speaker 3: to it a couple of times through while working on

959
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:13,759
Speaker 3: notes for this episode. It really connected with me when

960
00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:15,279
Speaker 3: I was younger, and there are a few things that

961
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:18,480
Speaker 3: I love more today as an adult than a really

962
00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:23,040
Speaker 3: good Tangerine Dream motion picture score, So this one, in

963
00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:26,239
Speaker 3: my opinion, They instantly elevate anything they touch, so it

964
00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:28,759
Speaker 3: was hard for me to set that aside and watch

965
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:31,239
Speaker 3: a full cut of the picture, an even longer cut

966
00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:33,480
Speaker 3: of the picture that has this score by Jerry Goldsmith.

967
00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:37,000
Speaker 3: Jerry Goldsmith lived nineteen twenty nine through two thousand and four.

968
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:41,040
Speaker 3: Multiple Academy Award winner, responsible for the scores of seventy

969
00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:44,720
Speaker 3: sevens to Omen Alien, nineteen eighties Star Trek, the Motion Picture,

970
00:52:44,719 --> 00:52:49,120
Speaker 3: and many more. Obviously, Jerry Goldsmith is no slouch. This

971
00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:52,640
Speaker 3: is his score for Legend is terrific. There are times

972
00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:56,439
Speaker 3: where it is maybe more is certainly more mainstream, more

973
00:52:56,520 --> 00:53:01,399
Speaker 3: swashbucklery in its scope, maybe by some estimates, a little

974
00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:05,800
Speaker 3: hammy in an intentional way, but it's also just really

975
00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:08,359
Speaker 3: great in moments as well, like the whole section we'll

976
00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:11,440
Speaker 3: get into with the Hell Kitchen. Jerry Goldsmith's score here

977
00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:12,160
Speaker 3: is tremendous.

978
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:15,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a very traditional score you would expect with

979
00:53:15,600 --> 00:53:19,759
Speaker 1: the fantasy movie and it delivers on that front. But yeah,

980
00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:22,319
Speaker 1: as I said earlier, Rob, I know your love for

981
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:26,359
Speaker 1: Tangerine Dream, for electronic music generally, but especially Tangerine Dream,

982
00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:29,120
Speaker 1: goes so deep. That is why I was shocked that

983
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:32,000
Speaker 1: you would have us watch the director's cut. But what's

984
00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:35,000
Speaker 1: the main difference in the sonic texture here? What does

985
00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:37,719
Speaker 1: the Tangerine Dream score sound like in the US cut?

986
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:40,480
Speaker 3: Oh? I mean the Tangerine Dream cut is, of course

987
00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:45,000
Speaker 3: it's electronic, it's very synth heavy, but it also has

988
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:49,120
Speaker 3: this kind of ethereal otherworldly vibe to it, you know,

989
00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:53,520
Speaker 3: and that I think is typified by that opening bit

990
00:53:53,560 --> 00:53:56,200
Speaker 3: of music that plays in the US theatrical cut, where

991
00:53:56,200 --> 00:54:00,600
Speaker 3: it's like a strange Elven synth flute playing to you,

992
00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:05,160
Speaker 3: you know, across the dimensional barrier. Tangerine Dream is, of

993
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:09,040
Speaker 3: course a German electronic act founded by the late Edgar Frosie,

994
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:12,400
Speaker 3: who lived nineteen forty four through twenty fifteen. There have

995
00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:16,080
Speaker 3: been numerous lineups over time, but he was the only

996
00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:21,160
Speaker 3: consistent member of the group at the time of this score.

997
00:54:21,239 --> 00:54:25,680
Speaker 3: I believe Christopher Frank and Johannes Schmoling were also in

998
00:54:25,719 --> 00:54:30,120
Speaker 3: the group. The band Tangerine Dream is still around. They

999
00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:34,160
Speaker 3: still record and tour, but it is a younger lineup,

1000
00:54:34,239 --> 00:54:36,560
Speaker 3: so none of the original members. And I could be

1001
00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:38,040
Speaker 3: wrong in this, but I don't think any of the

1002
00:54:38,080 --> 00:54:42,160
Speaker 3: current members were alive when the band was initially formed.

1003
00:54:42,360 --> 00:54:46,480
Speaker 3: But you know, I haven't seen them. I assume they're

1004
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:50,200
Speaker 3: still great, but it is not the original members all right. Finally,

1005
00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:54,719
Speaker 3: of note, we also have two different vocal tracks on

1006
00:54:54,760 --> 00:54:57,880
Speaker 3: the US release, We have Loved by the Sun, a

1007
00:54:57,920 --> 00:55:01,040
Speaker 3: Tangerine Dream track with vocals by John Am, former lead

1008
00:55:01,080 --> 00:55:04,000
Speaker 3: singer of the band. Yes, this one plays towards the

1009
00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:06,239
Speaker 3: end of the very end of the picture. I don't

1010
00:55:06,239 --> 00:55:10,120
Speaker 3: hate it, but it's far outclassed I think by the

1011
00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:13,480
Speaker 3: end credits song, which is Brian Fairies. Is your love

1012
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:14,200
Speaker 3: strong Enough?

1013
00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:16,640
Speaker 1: I was trying to describe this one, and it's like,

1014
00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:21,360
Speaker 1: it's such a mood. It is soft, smooth, neon waves

1015
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:21,840
Speaker 1: of emotion.

1016
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:24,799
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, I think it's a great vibe. You got

1017
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:28,239
Speaker 3: you got Fairy in his vocals, of course is the

1018
00:55:28,640 --> 00:55:31,600
Speaker 3: was the front man of Roxy Music. Ridley Scott co

1019
00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:33,839
Speaker 3: directed one of their music videos in eighty two and

1020
00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:36,320
Speaker 3: then on guitars. For this track we have David Gilmour

1021
00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:39,600
Speaker 3: of Pink Floyd. So great track, I think, a great

1022
00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:42,799
Speaker 3: way to end the picture. I think is one that

1023
00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:44,800
Speaker 3: I overlooked this when I was a kid. I was

1024
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:46,400
Speaker 3: like I had some sort of cheesy pop song. But

1025
00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:48,560
Speaker 3: now now I'm like, this song is amazing and it

1026
00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:54,360
Speaker 3: should be it should be heard.

1027
00:55:58,719 --> 00:56:00,640
Speaker 1: You ready to go to the plot, Let's do it.

1028
00:56:01,200 --> 00:56:02,960
Speaker 1: So note as we get into the plot that I'm

1029
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:05,200
Speaker 1: going to be talking about this from the point of

1030
00:56:05,239 --> 00:56:09,080
Speaker 1: view of having watched the director's cut most recently so

1031
00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:12,279
Speaker 1: in this version, the plot begins with a character we

1032
00:56:12,360 --> 00:56:15,080
Speaker 1: do not see or only see from behind, in a

1033
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:19,440
Speaker 1: high backed chair like doctor Claw. This is the Lord

1034
00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:23,000
Speaker 1: of Darkness, and he is in a shadowy hall within

1035
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:27,960
Speaker 1: a stonework palace illuminated by fire, with fog flowing across

1036
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:32,000
Speaker 1: the floor, and we hear his voice. It's deep and complex.

1037
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:34,920
Speaker 1: It's almost like it was kind of made of multiple voices,

1038
00:56:35,040 --> 00:56:39,480
Speaker 1: or maybe it contains its own echo, and Darkness says,

1039
00:56:39,680 --> 00:56:43,560
Speaker 1: I am the Lord of Darkness. I require the solace

1040
00:56:43,640 --> 00:56:47,280
Speaker 1: of the shadows and the dark of the night. Sunshine

1041
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:52,920
Speaker 1: is my destroyer. All this shall change tonight, the sun

1042
00:56:53,120 --> 00:56:57,719
Speaker 1: sets forever, there shall never be another dawn. So we

1043
00:56:57,880 --> 00:57:00,799
Speaker 1: learn that the Lord of Darkness has a place he

1044
00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:05,000
Speaker 1: wants to forever, destroy the sunshine and rule over a

1045
00:57:05,040 --> 00:57:08,840
Speaker 1: frozen kingdom of eternal midnight. And he calls forth his

1046
00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:13,920
Speaker 1: most loyal, infernal servant, a foul, fetid goblin named Blicks,

1047
00:57:14,680 --> 00:57:18,000
Speaker 1: and Darkness says that he senses the presence of an

1048
00:57:18,120 --> 00:57:21,960
Speaker 1: enemy in the forest outside, an enemy that mercifully he

1049
00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:25,680
Speaker 1: had almost forgotten the existence of. But now it's sort

1050
00:57:25,680 --> 00:57:28,800
Speaker 1: of resurging in his mind. It's out there. It's a

1051
00:57:28,920 --> 00:57:32,520
Speaker 1: power that threatens him. What power could that be? Well,

1052
00:57:32,680 --> 00:57:36,520
Speaker 1: Darkness says, looking upon these frail creatures, one would not

1053
00:57:36,680 --> 00:57:40,480
Speaker 1: think they could contain such power. One could rule the

1054
00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:43,800
Speaker 1: universe with it. And then he tells Blicks, you must

1055
00:57:43,840 --> 00:57:47,720
Speaker 1: find them for me and destroy them. Blicks asks what

1056
00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:50,840
Speaker 1: these creatures look like? And Darkness gets very angry, says

1057
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:53,919
Speaker 1: you fool, and he stabs a piece of silverware into

1058
00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:56,360
Speaker 1: Blicks's head, or it might be a dagger or something.

1059
00:57:56,680 --> 00:57:59,720
Speaker 1: So the answer is they look like this. They've got

1060
00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:02,880
Speaker 1: a single spike growing out of their heads, like an

1061
00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:07,880
Speaker 1: antenna reaching up to heaven. Now, Blix is like, okay,

1062
00:58:08,200 --> 00:58:11,360
Speaker 1: single horn on the head, intenna reaching to heaven. Got it.

1063
00:58:11,440 --> 00:58:14,800
Speaker 1: I will destroy them. And but wait a minute, how

1064
00:58:14,840 --> 00:58:18,320
Speaker 1: am I going to find these creatures? And here Darkness says,

1065
00:58:18,400 --> 00:58:21,800
Speaker 1: you know, there's only one lure for such disgusting goodness,

1066
00:58:21,840 --> 00:58:25,560
Speaker 1: one bait that never fails. Blick says, what's the bait?

1067
00:58:25,880 --> 00:58:32,480
Speaker 1: And Darkness says, in no sense, in no sense, I

1068
00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:35,440
Speaker 1: can't quite capture Tim Curry's delivery there, but it is

1069
00:58:35,480 --> 00:58:35,960
Speaker 1: the best.

1070
00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:40,080
Speaker 3: This is This is a great scene. Pretty much any

1071
00:58:40,080 --> 00:58:44,479
Speaker 3: interaction between Blicks and Darkness is golden, and I wish

1072
00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:47,360
Speaker 3: we had more of it, because yeah, Darkness is of

1073
00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:52,920
Speaker 3: course just absolute, over the top dramatic evil, and Blicks

1074
00:58:53,240 --> 00:58:56,600
Speaker 3: is of course also extremely evil, but in a more

1075
00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:01,960
Speaker 3: sniveling way. But also you know, like he like, clearly

1076
00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:06,800
Speaker 3: Blicks can and will betray darkness at any moment, but

1077
00:59:07,240 --> 00:59:09,080
Speaker 3: he also knows he could be destroyed at any moment

1078
00:59:09,160 --> 00:59:11,280
Speaker 3: by darkness, so he's yeah, I love this line where

1079
00:59:11,280 --> 00:59:13,760
Speaker 3: he's like, what be the bab Please you teach you

1080
00:59:13,840 --> 00:59:16,520
Speaker 3: teach me, you know, and oh it's so good.

1081
00:59:16,960 --> 00:59:21,840
Speaker 1: Yeah. Blix is your classic subordinate villain, who is who

1082
00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:24,800
Speaker 1: is haughty and abusive when he is out on his

1083
00:59:24,840 --> 00:59:28,160
Speaker 1: own with his own subordinates, but then very servile when

1084
00:59:28,160 --> 00:59:30,400
Speaker 1: in the presence of his of his infernal lord.

1085
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:35,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's tremendous, great vocal performance, great physical performance,

1086
00:59:35,080 --> 00:59:36,280
Speaker 3: shining through the makeup.

1087
00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:39,800
Speaker 1: It's a bummer that Blicks and the other goblins just

1088
00:59:39,960 --> 00:59:42,600
Speaker 1: disappear at some point in the movie, like somewhere in

1089
00:59:42,640 --> 00:59:44,360
Speaker 1: the second act. They never show up again.

1090
00:59:44,680 --> 00:59:46,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I read that at some point it

1091
00:59:46,880 --> 00:59:48,960
Speaker 3: was they'd written it so that they would come back

1092
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:51,640
Speaker 3: in for the final showdown, you know, which would make sense, right,

1093
00:59:51,840 --> 00:59:55,320
Speaker 3: because there's especially Blicks is such a great character, This

1094
00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:59,560
Speaker 3: is such a great secondary villain. It's weird that he

1095
00:59:59,680 --> 01:00:01,560
Speaker 3: just like retires or something.

1096
01:00:01,960 --> 01:00:07,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, So Blick's goes out hunting the in no sense

1097
01:00:07,560 --> 01:00:09,800
Speaker 1: with a couple of other goblins. One of them is

1098
01:00:09,840 --> 01:00:13,160
Speaker 1: a bipedal hog named Pox, and the other is a

1099
01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:16,320
Speaker 1: goblin whose face we do not see. This goblin is

1100
01:00:16,400 --> 01:00:19,920
Speaker 1: named Blunder and he wears a cage visored bucket helmet

1101
01:00:19,960 --> 01:00:20,600
Speaker 1: with horns.

1102
01:00:22,120 --> 01:00:23,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, he kind of looks like he could have wandered

1103
01:00:23,680 --> 01:00:27,280
Speaker 3: out a labyrinth down down the studio road there.

1104
01:00:27,680 --> 01:00:30,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, so next we're gonna meet our main characters, Lily

1105
01:00:31,080 --> 01:00:35,000
Speaker 1: and Jack. Lily is a princess, but we learn that

1106
01:00:35,080 --> 01:00:37,240
Speaker 1: she does not want to be cooped up in the

1107
01:00:37,280 --> 01:00:40,960
Speaker 1: stuffy castle with her servants and her glittering treasures. She

1108
01:00:41,120 --> 01:00:44,640
Speaker 1: wants to wander free in the countryside and roam through

1109
01:00:44,680 --> 01:00:47,800
Speaker 1: the forest. She hangs out with peasants in their cottages,

1110
01:00:48,280 --> 01:00:52,240
Speaker 1: and especially she wants to meet up with Jack, and

1111
01:00:52,280 --> 01:00:54,880
Speaker 1: she I think she's talking to well, I don't remember

1112
01:00:54,920 --> 01:00:57,440
Speaker 1: if she's talking to one of her peasant friends or

1113
01:00:57,480 --> 01:01:00,200
Speaker 1: to Jack when she says this, But she says, this

1114
01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:02,880
Speaker 1: place holds more magic for me than any palace in

1115
01:01:02,920 --> 01:01:03,400
Speaker 1: the world.

1116
01:01:03,760 --> 01:01:06,360
Speaker 3: So Lily is, of course the embodiment of purity and

1117
01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:09,360
Speaker 3: innocence here, but there is something more, and it's kind

1118
01:01:09,360 --> 01:01:13,000
Speaker 3: of underscored at this point in the picture, especially I

1119
01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:15,720
Speaker 3: imagine more so in the in the US theatrical cut.

1120
01:01:15,960 --> 01:01:19,600
Speaker 3: But I think her privilege is also really key to

1121
01:01:19,680 --> 01:01:23,240
Speaker 3: her character, because you know, who would deny you anything, princess?

1122
01:01:24,120 --> 01:01:26,480
Speaker 3: You know, you know, she's really sweet and she's innocent,

1123
01:01:26,560 --> 01:01:29,360
Speaker 3: but she does feel like she has the right to

1124
01:01:29,520 --> 01:01:31,880
Speaker 3: everything in the world, be it walking into a peasant's

1125
01:01:31,880 --> 01:01:35,920
Speaker 3: house and observing their life and feeling to some level

1126
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:37,960
Speaker 3: like she gets to be a part of it, or

1127
01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:41,120
Speaker 3: as we'll see in a bit, that she should be

1128
01:01:41,120 --> 01:01:43,520
Speaker 3: able to walk right up to a unicorn and touch it.

1129
01:01:43,880 --> 01:01:48,160
Speaker 1: Yeah. The other side of innocence is naivety, and so

1130
01:01:48,240 --> 01:01:52,480
Speaker 1: she does not realize the consequences of her actions and

1131
01:01:52,520 --> 01:01:53,960
Speaker 1: maybe doesn't even consider them.

1132
01:01:54,240 --> 01:01:56,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, she doesn't understand that there are things in the

1133
01:01:56,520 --> 01:01:58,040
Speaker 3: world that are not meant for her.

1134
01:01:58,520 --> 01:02:01,960
Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, the other character or is Jack, played by

1135
01:02:02,000 --> 01:02:06,120
Speaker 1: Tom Cruise and Jack, I'm not sure exactly what he

1136
01:02:06,880 --> 01:02:09,479
Speaker 1: is in the movie. I see if you agree with this, Rob,

1137
01:02:09,600 --> 01:02:14,080
Speaker 1: I think the layout is that he is biologically a

1138
01:02:14,160 --> 01:02:17,440
Speaker 1: regular human, so he's not a fairy or an elf

1139
01:02:17,560 --> 01:02:19,400
Speaker 1: or any of the other types of hidden folk that

1140
01:02:19,440 --> 01:02:22,560
Speaker 1: we meet in the story, but he does not seem

1141
01:02:22,600 --> 01:02:26,600
Speaker 1: to be a part of human society and seems to

1142
01:02:26,880 --> 01:02:29,920
Speaker 1: live alone in a in a kind of ageless and

1143
01:02:30,080 --> 01:02:36,200
Speaker 1: carefree communion with the forest. He's almost a hot raticas.

1144
01:02:36,280 --> 01:02:38,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I think hot ratagas is a good

1145
01:02:38,360 --> 01:02:40,040
Speaker 3: way of putting it. I also was thinking of him

1146
01:02:40,040 --> 01:02:43,240
Speaker 3: as sort of a fairal Peter Pan, you know. So

1147
01:02:43,440 --> 01:02:45,720
Speaker 3: he also has more than his share of innocence. He's

1148
01:02:45,800 --> 01:02:49,080
Speaker 3: very connected with nature, very connected to the forces of

1149
01:02:49,160 --> 01:02:53,360
Speaker 3: light in the fairy Folk, but this is underscored a

1150
01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:57,080
Speaker 3: bit as well. But he's also lusty, granted in a

1151
01:02:57,120 --> 01:02:58,840
Speaker 3: way that I think we're to understand is a largely

1152
01:02:58,880 --> 01:03:01,640
Speaker 3: in a largely innocent way part of his youthfulness. And

1153
01:03:01,680 --> 01:03:04,920
Speaker 3: it's not like he's manipulating Lily or anything like that.

1154
01:03:04,960 --> 01:03:08,280
Speaker 3: But his desire is obvious as well, so you know,

1155
01:03:08,320 --> 01:03:11,760
Speaker 3: it's like that's kind of that's we're setting that up

1156
01:03:11,800 --> 01:03:14,640
Speaker 3: to be his sin here. And I mentioned this because

1157
01:03:15,120 --> 01:03:18,400
Speaker 3: the plot, especially in the in the director's cut, is

1158
01:03:18,520 --> 01:03:21,800
Speaker 3: very concerned with the interconnectedness of light and darkness, as

1159
01:03:21,880 --> 01:03:24,880
Speaker 3: well as feelings of shame and are two protagonists. Though

1160
01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:28,040
Speaker 3: it feels rather lily heavy in that regard, which I guess,

1161
01:03:28,080 --> 01:03:30,520
Speaker 3: you know, kind of matches up the basic story of

1162
01:03:30,520 --> 01:03:33,080
Speaker 3: Adam and Eden, where it's you know, far more shame

1163
01:03:33,160 --> 01:03:35,919
Speaker 3: is placed on the female in the scenario, when really

1164
01:03:35,960 --> 01:03:38,720
Speaker 3: it takes two people to touch sacred fruit.

1165
01:03:39,160 --> 01:03:42,280
Speaker 1: Yeah. So Jack and Lily they meet together in the

1166
01:03:42,280 --> 01:03:47,600
Speaker 1: forest to frolic about, and eventually Jack takes Lily to

1167
01:03:47,760 --> 01:03:51,480
Speaker 1: show her something very special. He sort of blindfolds her

1168
01:03:51,520 --> 01:03:54,720
Speaker 1: while he's leading her to a secret place, and he

1169
01:03:54,760 --> 01:03:57,520
Speaker 1: takes her blindfold off when they arrive. They're at this

1170
01:03:57,640 --> 01:04:01,280
Speaker 1: kind of hidden brook somewhere somewhere in in the forest glen,

1171
01:04:01,600 --> 01:04:05,000
Speaker 1: and what they see there is a pair of unicorns

1172
01:04:05,040 --> 01:04:07,200
Speaker 1: that emerge from the trees, and then they kind of

1173
01:04:07,280 --> 01:04:12,000
Speaker 1: gallop about together like they're playing. And these unicorns, we understand,

1174
01:04:12,160 --> 01:04:17,840
Speaker 1: are sacred creatures, almost primordial, and their fates are linked

1175
01:04:17,960 --> 01:04:21,760
Speaker 1: to the fate of the world itself. So Jack communicates somehow,

1176
01:04:21,880 --> 01:04:24,320
Speaker 1: we've got to treat these creatures with reverence. You know,

1177
01:04:24,400 --> 01:04:27,040
Speaker 1: remember she had to be like blindfolded to go to

1178
01:04:27,080 --> 01:04:28,160
Speaker 1: their secret grounds.

1179
01:04:28,920 --> 01:04:29,120
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1180
01:04:29,200 --> 01:04:32,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, these this matches up with some of the ideas

1181
01:04:32,560 --> 01:04:35,000
Speaker 3: swirling around the concept of the unicorn. We talked about

1182
01:04:35,120 --> 01:04:38,840
Speaker 3: unicorns in an older episode of Stuff to Blow Your Mind,

1183
01:04:38,880 --> 01:04:42,439
Speaker 3: where at times like the unicorn is presented as Christ

1184
01:04:42,640 --> 01:04:46,800
Speaker 3: as Jesus Christ himself in the form of a single

1185
01:04:46,960 --> 01:04:47,800
Speaker 3: horned horse.

1186
01:04:48,320 --> 01:04:52,640
Speaker 1: Now we watch the unicorns play together and Lily becomes enraptured.

1187
01:04:52,680 --> 01:04:56,080
Speaker 1: I guess because of her in no sense she does

1188
01:04:56,480 --> 01:04:59,680
Speaker 1: not take the proper precautions in their presence. She doesn't

1189
01:04:59,680 --> 01:05:02,360
Speaker 1: want to hold back and just observe them from a

1190
01:05:02,400 --> 01:05:05,640
Speaker 1: distant a distance like Jack recommends. She sort of runs

1191
01:05:05,680 --> 01:05:07,760
Speaker 1: out of hiding and touches one of them. I think

1192
01:05:07,760 --> 01:05:09,160
Speaker 1: the stallion right.

1193
01:05:09,080 --> 01:05:11,640
Speaker 3: And it's not so much the touch that is going

1194
01:05:11,720 --> 01:05:18,120
Speaker 3: to be disastrous, but it does impact other elements in play.

1195
01:05:17,560 --> 01:05:21,720
Speaker 1: Right, because all along Lily has been tracked by the

1196
01:05:21,760 --> 01:05:25,880
Speaker 1: Goblin trio. They've been they've been following the inno sense,

1197
01:05:26,480 --> 01:05:30,160
Speaker 1: and sure enough, the innocense led them straight to the unicorns.

1198
01:05:30,720 --> 01:05:33,880
Speaker 1: And I think this is around the scene where Blick

1199
01:05:33,960 --> 01:05:36,960
Speaker 1: says that line, maybe innocent may be sweet, ain't half

1200
01:05:37,000 --> 01:05:40,280
Speaker 1: as nice as rotting meat. So we see where Blick's

1201
01:05:40,280 --> 01:05:44,120
Speaker 1: preferences lie, and they are with death and attack. So

1202
01:05:44,200 --> 01:05:47,280
Speaker 1: when they when the Goblins see the unicorns, I think

1203
01:05:47,320 --> 01:05:52,000
Speaker 1: Blunder yells out look ugly one horned mule, and they

1204
01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:54,680
Speaker 1: take the opportunity to strike. They shoot one of the

1205
01:05:54,680 --> 01:05:59,080
Speaker 1: two unicorns with a poisoned dart, and the unicorns gallop away,

1206
01:05:59,480 --> 01:06:02,680
Speaker 1: and I think at first Jack and Lily don't realize

1207
01:06:02,680 --> 01:06:05,680
Speaker 1: what has happened. Like Jack is disturbed that Lily was

1208
01:06:05,680 --> 01:06:09,040
Speaker 1: so brazen with these holy creatures, but he is quickly

1209
01:06:09,080 --> 01:06:13,240
Speaker 1: distracted by love because Lily takes off a piece of jewelry,

1210
01:06:13,280 --> 01:06:16,720
Speaker 1: a golden ring inlaid with gems, and she throws it

1211
01:06:16,760 --> 01:06:19,320
Speaker 1: into the pool at the base of a waterfall where

1212
01:06:19,320 --> 01:06:22,400
Speaker 1: they're hanging out, and she says, I'm gonna marry whoever

1213
01:06:22,440 --> 01:06:25,760
Speaker 1: finds this ring, and Jack is just hot diggity he

1214
01:06:25,880 --> 01:06:30,920
Speaker 1: dives right in after it. Yeah. Now a lot happens

1215
01:06:30,960 --> 01:06:33,600
Speaker 1: while Jack is diving under the water looking for the ring.

1216
01:06:34,080 --> 01:06:37,160
Speaker 1: The goblins catch up to the unicorn, which is faltering

1217
01:06:37,280 --> 01:06:39,720
Speaker 1: under the influence of the poison, and blicks his dart

1218
01:06:40,200 --> 01:06:42,840
Speaker 1: and they go up to it and they chop off

1219
01:06:42,920 --> 01:06:48,120
Speaker 1: its horn, and this instantly causes a worldwide calamity. A

1220
01:06:48,240 --> 01:06:53,400
Speaker 1: supernatural winter descends. The peasants are frozen solid in their cottages.

1221
01:06:53,960 --> 01:06:57,600
Speaker 1: Ice forms over the pool where Jack is diving for

1222
01:06:57,640 --> 01:06:59,360
Speaker 1: the ring, so like when he comes up for air,

1223
01:06:59,400 --> 01:07:02,680
Speaker 1: he has to break through the ice. Lily is caught

1224
01:07:02,680 --> 01:07:05,320
Speaker 1: out in the blizzard and she runs in terror as

1225
01:07:05,360 --> 01:07:08,280
Speaker 1: the Goblins come tramping through the new world of frosty

1226
01:07:08,320 --> 01:07:11,720
Speaker 1: horror that they've created. It's a scary time, and it.

1227
01:07:11,720 --> 01:07:14,080
Speaker 3: Must have been scary to read this script and think

1228
01:07:14,120 --> 01:07:16,640
Speaker 3: about producing this. You know, this is it's like, we're

1229
01:07:16,680 --> 01:07:18,760
Speaker 3: gonna build a forest, then it's gonna be winter in

1230
01:07:18,800 --> 01:07:21,600
Speaker 3: the forest. We're gonna have a frozen over pond. We're

1231
01:07:21,600 --> 01:07:24,240
Speaker 3: gonna have somebody swimming in that and breaking up through

1232
01:07:24,240 --> 01:07:26,160
Speaker 3: the ice later, like I don't know. It is one

1233
01:07:26,200 --> 01:07:28,160
Speaker 3: of the many places in the film where you'd really

1234
01:07:28,160 --> 01:07:32,040
Speaker 3: have to admire the what they really set out to

1235
01:07:32,080 --> 01:07:34,280
Speaker 3: do here, Like this is a lot.

1236
01:07:34,520 --> 01:07:38,680
Speaker 1: Blick says, mortal world turned ice. Here be Goblin paradise.

1237
01:07:39,120 --> 01:07:41,520
Speaker 1: So the goblins are having a ball, they run around

1238
01:07:41,680 --> 01:07:44,800
Speaker 1: using the unicorn horn as a magic wand they're just

1239
01:07:45,720 --> 01:07:49,240
Speaker 1: doing all kinds of mischief and Lily eventually tracks them

1240
01:07:49,280 --> 01:07:52,840
Speaker 1: back to their Goblin camp, which I think his position's

1241
01:07:52,880 --> 01:07:54,920
Speaker 1: sort of down in a kind of ravine or a

1242
01:07:54,960 --> 01:07:57,760
Speaker 1: pit in the earth, and they've got a fire going

1243
01:07:57,840 --> 01:08:01,680
Speaker 1: and they're playing around with the horn, and this is

1244
01:08:01,720 --> 01:08:04,600
Speaker 1: all good stuff. I love this scene. I think this

1245
01:08:04,640 --> 01:08:08,800
Speaker 1: is where Blick says, higher burning fire, making music like

1246
01:08:08,880 --> 01:08:13,320
Speaker 1: a choir, and they're all sort of talking about what

1247
01:08:13,360 --> 01:08:15,240
Speaker 1: they could do with their new found of power. I

1248
01:08:15,240 --> 01:08:19,160
Speaker 1: think the pig Goblin I love this, suggests turning everything

1249
01:08:19,280 --> 01:08:22,479
Speaker 1: into garbage. That's a quote. He says, why not turn

1250
01:08:22,600 --> 01:08:26,960
Speaker 1: everything into garbage, A big, towering mountain of slot. Wouldn't

1251
01:08:27,000 --> 01:08:27,799
Speaker 1: that be magic?

1252
01:08:29,479 --> 01:08:31,160
Speaker 3: He's a simple guy, he knows what he wants.

1253
01:08:31,680 --> 01:08:33,520
Speaker 1: Love numb, numb garbage.

1254
01:08:33,640 --> 01:08:37,439
Speaker 3: Now, one of my recurring questions on this rewatch of Legend,

1255
01:08:37,960 --> 01:08:42,679
Speaker 3: given recent changes and slaying, is this goblin mode? Does

1256
01:08:42,720 --> 01:08:46,360
Speaker 3: this constitute goblin mode? If you're not familiar, Goblin mode,

1257
01:08:46,439 --> 01:08:49,240
Speaker 3: as defined by the Oxford Dictionary in twenty twenty two,

1258
01:08:49,479 --> 01:08:53,919
Speaker 3: is a type of behavior which is unapologetically self indulgent, lazy, slovenly,

1259
01:08:54,040 --> 01:08:57,080
Speaker 3: or greedy, typically in a way that rejects social norms

1260
01:08:57,160 --> 01:08:58,120
Speaker 3: or expectations.

1261
01:08:58,640 --> 01:09:01,080
Speaker 1: You know, I would say that the goblins in this

1262
01:09:01,160 --> 01:09:04,559
Speaker 1: movie are not in goblin mode by default, but in

1263
01:09:04,600 --> 01:09:09,360
Speaker 1: this particular scene, they are going goblin mode. Okay, like

1264
01:09:09,439 --> 01:09:14,519
Speaker 1: Pox's desire to quote turn everything into garbage. That's goblin mode.

1265
01:09:14,520 --> 01:09:15,400
Speaker 1: That's going right.

1266
01:09:16,200 --> 01:09:16,559
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1267
01:09:16,680 --> 01:09:16,960
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1268
01:09:17,080 --> 01:09:19,840
Speaker 3: Now, at the same time, Blick's he seems he's having

1269
01:09:20,240 --> 01:09:24,000
Speaker 3: a big time here waving this unicorn horn wand around

1270
01:09:24,680 --> 01:09:27,160
Speaker 3: and it seems like he has he has greater designs.

1271
01:09:27,479 --> 01:09:30,000
Speaker 3: He's thinking about the power of the wand here and

1272
01:09:30,000 --> 01:09:30,880
Speaker 3: what he could do with it.

1273
01:09:31,439 --> 01:09:33,880
Speaker 1: I don't know, so we'll see what happens and when

1274
01:09:34,000 --> 01:09:37,120
Speaker 1: Darkness shows up. So Darkness arrives at the goblin camp,

1275
01:09:37,120 --> 01:09:38,960
Speaker 1: he's covered in a cloak, so we still don't see

1276
01:09:38,960 --> 01:09:41,760
Speaker 1: his face or his true form. And this is where

1277
01:09:41,920 --> 01:09:44,760
Speaker 1: one of the three goblins, I know it's Blunder, the

1278
01:09:44,760 --> 01:09:47,880
Speaker 1: one with the helmet on, tries to take the horn

1279
01:09:48,080 --> 01:09:50,639
Speaker 1: and use it to usurp the power of the Lord

1280
01:09:50,680 --> 01:09:53,880
Speaker 1: of Darkness, but he's he's not strong enough. Tim Curry

1281
01:09:53,960 --> 01:09:57,000
Speaker 1: just like sucks it out of Blunder's hand magically and

1282
01:09:57,040 --> 01:10:01,800
Speaker 1: then reanimates a nearby mummy, grab up Blunder and cast

1283
01:10:01,840 --> 01:10:04,000
Speaker 1: him into a crevice in the earth, though we'll meet

1284
01:10:04,080 --> 01:10:04,760
Speaker 1: him again later.

1285
01:10:05,160 --> 01:10:07,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is a great thing because basically, yeah, Blicks

1286
01:10:07,960 --> 01:10:10,599
Speaker 3: has been playing around with the wand there's really getting

1287
01:10:10,640 --> 01:10:13,400
Speaker 3: into it. And has all these flourishes to his movements.

1288
01:10:14,080 --> 01:10:17,200
Speaker 3: You know, clearly he's really digging this power trip, and

1289
01:10:17,240 --> 01:10:19,800
Speaker 3: you get the impression that Darkness has shown up really

1290
01:10:19,840 --> 01:10:21,680
Speaker 3: to be like, Okay, enough of this before it gets

1291
01:10:21,720 --> 01:10:24,600
Speaker 3: out of hand. I'm here for what's mine. So but

1292
01:10:24,680 --> 01:10:26,840
Speaker 3: Blix is smart enough to just drop it to the

1293
01:10:26,840 --> 01:10:31,600
Speaker 3: ground immediately. Yeah yeah, But but Blunder is stupid, and

1294
01:10:31,680 --> 01:10:34,320
Speaker 3: Blunder is like, oh, there's the wand it's mine now,

1295
01:10:34,600 --> 01:10:36,640
Speaker 3: this is my time to shine, and as sind at

1296
01:10:36,640 --> 01:10:40,719
Speaker 3: the top, and he's just instantly destroyed. Yeah, or seemingly

1297
01:10:40,760 --> 01:10:41,200
Speaker 3: at the time.

1298
01:10:42,160 --> 01:10:45,000
Speaker 1: Blunder has some good lines though, before he gets cast

1299
01:10:45,040 --> 01:10:48,320
Speaker 1: into the ravine when they're like they're talking about uh

1300
01:10:48,439 --> 01:10:50,800
Speaker 1: Lily and they're like, oh, she's so beautiful, and then

1301
01:10:50,880 --> 01:10:53,160
Speaker 1: Blunder's like, I know, I could eat her brains.

1302
01:10:53,200 --> 01:10:58,280
Speaker 3: Like jam, they just don't have the same values as mortals.

1303
01:10:58,920 --> 01:10:59,160
Speaker 4: Though.

1304
01:10:59,320 --> 01:11:03,400
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, the mission is not fully accomplished because Darkness is like,

1305
01:11:03,560 --> 01:11:06,639
Speaker 1: you fools, look, Dawn is about to break. That means

1306
01:11:06,680 --> 01:11:08,800
Speaker 1: one of the unicorns still lives. You have to get

1307
01:11:08,960 --> 01:11:11,680
Speaker 1: both of them, So go find the other unicorn and

1308
01:11:11,720 --> 01:11:12,280
Speaker 1: bring it to me.

1309
01:11:13,160 --> 01:11:13,360
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1310
01:11:13,439 --> 01:11:16,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, Because the remaining. Unicorn is the mayor, and they're

1311
01:11:16,520 --> 01:11:19,080
Speaker 3: like what, it's just the female and Darkness is like, yeah,

1312
01:11:19,120 --> 01:11:21,479
Speaker 3: that one has the power of creation, you dummies, Like

1313
01:11:21,520 --> 01:11:23,080
Speaker 3: that's the most important unicorn.

1314
01:11:23,240 --> 01:11:26,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you got to bring me Unicorn too. Meanwhile,

1315
01:11:26,800 --> 01:11:30,200
Speaker 1: Jack wakes up after being frozen in the Blizzard of Wickedness,

1316
01:11:30,640 --> 01:11:33,040
Speaker 1: and when he does, when he wakes up, he is

1317
01:11:33,080 --> 01:11:37,200
Speaker 1: surrounded by a coterie of hidden folk. So there is

1318
01:11:37,240 --> 01:11:41,640
Speaker 1: a sort of panlike magical boy called Honeythorn Gump. I

1319
01:11:41,680 --> 01:11:44,639
Speaker 1: think he's supposed to be an elf, do they say? Yeah?

1320
01:11:44,640 --> 01:11:45,200
Speaker 3: I believe so.

1321
01:11:45,680 --> 01:11:48,680
Speaker 1: I don't know technically what all of the fantasy classes

1322
01:11:48,680 --> 01:11:51,639
Speaker 1: of these creatures of the forest are. They're all various

1323
01:11:51,680 --> 01:11:55,240
Speaker 1: hidden folk of different kinds. A couple of them are

1324
01:11:55,880 --> 01:12:00,080
Speaker 1: Brown Tom and Screwball. They will be companions along the

1325
01:12:00,120 --> 01:12:02,320
Speaker 1: rest of the journey. In the movie, there is a

1326
01:12:02,360 --> 01:12:04,920
Speaker 1: fairy creature named Una, who I think is like a

1327
01:12:04,960 --> 01:12:08,639
Speaker 1: will of the Wisp. Yeah, honey Thorne Gump is sort

1328
01:12:08,680 --> 01:12:11,080
Speaker 1: of the leader of them. He's he's got the most

1329
01:12:11,720 --> 01:12:14,599
Speaker 1: lore information in his head and seems to like kind

1330
01:12:14,600 --> 01:12:19,080
Speaker 1: of know what's going on. And Gump is interesting. He

1331
01:12:19,400 --> 01:12:22,679
Speaker 1: has these great fantasy time units that he always talks

1332
01:12:22,720 --> 01:12:26,000
Speaker 1: in like he all the expressions of time are things

1333
01:12:26,080 --> 01:12:29,120
Speaker 1: like three flicks of a badger's tail or two hundred

1334
01:12:29,120 --> 01:12:30,559
Speaker 1: beats of a sparrow's heart.

1335
01:12:31,080 --> 01:12:33,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like you get the impression where if you

1336
01:12:33,280 --> 01:12:36,160
Speaker 3: were in tune with nature as much as as an

1337
01:12:36,160 --> 01:12:39,639
Speaker 3: elf is or any of these magical fairy folk here,

1338
01:12:39,920 --> 01:12:42,200
Speaker 3: you would know exactly what that means. You would innately

1339
01:12:42,280 --> 01:12:45,680
Speaker 3: know what that means. But to us mortals, we're a

1340
01:12:45,680 --> 01:12:47,480
Speaker 3: little lost on the particulars.

1341
01:12:47,760 --> 01:12:51,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, there are some initial negotiations. When they first meet

1342
01:12:51,560 --> 01:12:54,880
Speaker 1: Tom Cruise, he has to answer a riddle or die.

1343
01:12:55,080 --> 01:12:56,160
Speaker 1: I think, is that right?

1344
01:12:56,720 --> 01:12:59,800
Speaker 3: I'm always this scene kind of lost me a little bit.

1345
01:12:59,800 --> 01:13:03,240
Speaker 3: I'm sure exactly what is happening in the scene, But

1346
01:13:03,280 --> 01:13:05,320
Speaker 3: then it's kind of like, Okay, I guess he passed

1347
01:13:05,360 --> 01:13:06,559
Speaker 3: the test, whatever it was.

1348
01:13:07,160 --> 01:13:09,360
Speaker 1: Also, I don't understand the logic of the riddle. The

1349
01:13:09,680 --> 01:13:13,920
Speaker 1: answer is flowers, bluebell flowers, but I don't understand how

1350
01:13:13,960 --> 01:13:18,719
Speaker 1: it corresponds to the riddle itself. Anyway. They eventually decide

1351
01:13:18,720 --> 01:13:22,320
Speaker 1: that Tom Cruise is the champion foretold who must defend

1352
01:13:22,360 --> 01:13:24,800
Speaker 1: the world from the Lord of Darkness, and so there's

1353
01:13:24,840 --> 01:13:27,200
Speaker 1: a scene of him being sent to raid a treasure

1354
01:13:27,240 --> 01:13:30,480
Speaker 1: trove and a hidden barrow to get magical armor and weapons.

1355
01:13:31,360 --> 01:13:33,760
Speaker 1: Around here is where I first started to notice that

1356
01:13:33,800 --> 01:13:36,719
Speaker 1: Tom Cruise is not getting to stand up in this movie.

1357
01:13:36,720 --> 01:13:39,120
Speaker 1: He's always squatting or creeping on the ground.

1358
01:13:39,400 --> 01:13:42,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, and now he has like a golden chain mail

1359
01:13:42,360 --> 01:13:45,240
Speaker 3: skirt to wear the whole time. Yeah, and a really

1360
01:13:45,320 --> 01:13:48,720
Speaker 3: cool shield and sword too, So he's decked out. He's

1361
01:13:48,760 --> 01:13:51,960
Speaker 3: gotten his plus one plus two gear from the dungeon

1362
01:13:52,000 --> 01:13:54,439
Speaker 3: Master and is ready to hop into the main adventure.

1363
01:13:54,720 --> 01:13:57,960
Speaker 1: Yeah. Meanwhile, there's a scene where Lily makes her way

1364
01:13:58,000 --> 01:14:01,479
Speaker 1: to sort of the camp where Jack originally was, but

1365
01:14:01,479 --> 01:14:05,280
Speaker 1: they don't meet up. Lily is there with the Unicorn

1366
01:14:05,320 --> 01:14:08,559
Speaker 1: Mayor and they get captured by the goblins and taken

1367
01:14:08,600 --> 01:14:10,800
Speaker 1: back to Tim Curry. And there's a funny moment here

1368
01:14:10,800 --> 01:14:15,240
Speaker 1: where Brown Tom, who was with them, one of the

1369
01:14:15,240 --> 01:14:18,160
Speaker 1: good guys, he gets shot in the head with an

1370
01:14:18,360 --> 01:14:21,439
Speaker 1: arrow and you think he's dead, and he thinks he's

1371
01:14:21,479 --> 01:14:24,640
Speaker 1: dead when his companions show back up. He says, I

1372
01:14:24,680 --> 01:14:26,960
Speaker 1: was shot through the brain pan. But then he takes

1373
01:14:27,000 --> 01:14:29,840
Speaker 1: his hat off and he literally had a pan in

1374
01:14:29,880 --> 01:14:32,559
Speaker 1: his hat. And it was the arrow went through it.

1375
01:14:32,560 --> 01:14:34,280
Speaker 3: It's a great moment when this movie wants to be

1376
01:14:34,320 --> 01:14:40,680
Speaker 3: silly and funny, it succeeds.

1377
01:14:44,600 --> 01:14:48,040
Speaker 1: So now that Tim Curry has Lily and the last

1378
01:14:48,040 --> 01:14:50,320
Speaker 1: living Unicorn, that they got to turn this into a

1379
01:14:50,360 --> 01:14:53,720
Speaker 1: rescue operation, right, So Jack and his magical friends make

1380
01:14:53,760 --> 01:14:57,599
Speaker 1: the journey to the Layer of Darkness to confront Darkness

1381
01:14:57,600 --> 01:15:02,120
Speaker 1: and his minions. And I thought this was interesting. It's

1382
01:15:02,160 --> 01:15:05,040
Speaker 1: shown from the outside and it is not your typical

1383
01:15:05,160 --> 01:15:09,519
Speaker 1: stone castle, but seems to be built inside a giant

1384
01:15:09,720 --> 01:15:15,040
Speaker 1: ancient tree. The Honeythorn. Gump describes it by saying, the

1385
01:15:15,080 --> 01:15:19,040
Speaker 1: Great Tree, when evil anarchy ruled the land, the wicked

1386
01:15:19,160 --> 01:15:23,439
Speaker 1: came here to sacrifice. That's an interesting, almost kind of

1387
01:15:23,439 --> 01:15:28,160
Speaker 1: biblical foundation story that, like the Cursed Place, is a

1388
01:15:28,200 --> 01:15:32,320
Speaker 1: place that you associate with the sacrifices made by an

1389
01:15:32,320 --> 01:15:33,559
Speaker 1: ancient enemy.

1390
01:15:34,120 --> 01:15:36,599
Speaker 3: It's interesting too in that like what we have here

1391
01:15:36,640 --> 01:15:38,640
Speaker 3: in form and it looks amazing in the picture with

1392
01:15:38,880 --> 01:15:42,200
Speaker 3: we see like the spots of carrion birds circling around it.

1393
01:15:43,040 --> 01:15:45,280
Speaker 3: But in many respects you could compare this to like

1394
01:15:45,320 --> 01:15:49,680
Speaker 3: a world tree from various mythologies, you know, connecting the

1395
01:15:49,720 --> 01:15:52,680
Speaker 3: realm of Earth to the realm of the cosmos, but

1396
01:15:52,760 --> 01:15:56,360
Speaker 3: it's corrupted and it's dark. But on the other level,

1397
01:15:57,160 --> 01:16:00,120
Speaker 3: numerous times we have, especially our evil characters, speak to

1398
01:16:00,160 --> 01:16:04,040
Speaker 3: a universe here in which darkness was the purity of

1399
01:16:04,080 --> 01:16:07,640
Speaker 3: existence that was then invaded by light. And therefore it

1400
01:16:07,640 --> 01:16:10,639
Speaker 3: maybe feels kind of fitting that the world tree here

1401
01:16:11,360 --> 01:16:15,000
Speaker 3: is something of the darkness, because the darkness is the

1402
01:16:15,000 --> 01:16:16,639
Speaker 3: original structure of the universe.

1403
01:16:17,080 --> 01:16:19,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is an interesting mythology, and again we get

1404
01:16:19,479 --> 01:16:24,320
Speaker 1: these statements about the necessary interconnectedness of the elements that

1405
01:16:24,880 --> 01:16:27,920
Speaker 1: come back in the very end as well. Okay, now

1406
01:16:27,960 --> 01:16:30,040
Speaker 1: on the way to the castle, they've got to do

1407
01:16:30,120 --> 01:16:32,080
Speaker 1: battle with a swamp hag. Right. We brought a megg

1408
01:16:32,160 --> 01:16:35,000
Speaker 1: muckle Bones early on, played by Robert Piccardo in some

1409
01:16:35,400 --> 01:16:38,960
Speaker 1: amazing makeup and prosthetics or I don't know if there's

1410
01:16:39,000 --> 01:16:40,719
Speaker 1: puppet Tree involved in as well.

1411
01:16:40,880 --> 01:16:42,880
Speaker 3: It feels like it there feels like there's some sort

1412
01:16:42,880 --> 01:16:47,280
Speaker 3: of like device that's moving him around at the base.

1413
01:16:47,720 --> 01:16:50,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's like a big old Jenny Green teeth

1414
01:16:50,760 --> 01:16:52,479
Speaker 1: pops up out of the water and is going to

1415
01:16:52,520 --> 01:16:56,559
Speaker 1: eat Tom Cruise because she's like, you look delicious, and

1416
01:16:56,640 --> 01:16:59,240
Speaker 1: he starts trying to get out of it by flattering

1417
01:16:59,280 --> 01:17:03,400
Speaker 1: her beauty, and she ends up saying, ooh, what a

1418
01:17:03,439 --> 01:17:05,479
Speaker 1: fine meal you'll make be the rest of you as

1419
01:17:05,520 --> 01:17:06,679
Speaker 1: sweet as your tongue.

1420
01:17:07,520 --> 01:17:10,000
Speaker 3: And this scene, this scene is just so perfect but

1421
01:17:10,120 --> 01:17:12,560
Speaker 3: just and I'm just to touch on like some of

1422
01:17:12,600 --> 01:17:15,439
Speaker 3: the little things that make it great. The scene where

1423
01:17:16,200 --> 01:17:20,760
Speaker 3: he has the resplendent golden shield up and Meg is

1424
01:17:20,800 --> 01:17:23,800
Speaker 3: like close to it, half seeing a reflection in it,

1425
01:17:24,120 --> 01:17:27,840
Speaker 3: and her nails are tapping against it, and there's also

1426
01:17:27,840 --> 01:17:30,519
Speaker 3: so there's the gleam of the shield, but then also

1427
01:17:30,560 --> 01:17:32,880
Speaker 3: there's a little bit of her sliminess on it. So

1428
01:17:32,960 --> 01:17:36,479
Speaker 3: it's just like visually and just sonically too, that tapping

1429
01:17:36,800 --> 01:17:39,800
Speaker 3: is just complete overload. It's just a tremendous scene, even

1430
01:17:39,880 --> 01:17:40,839
Speaker 3: in this small detail.

1431
01:17:41,120 --> 01:17:45,400
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So eventually Meg is decapitated and our heroes,

1432
01:17:45,840 --> 01:17:47,920
Speaker 1: you know, they go on their way into the Great

1433
01:17:47,960 --> 01:17:51,360
Speaker 1: Tree of Wickedness, where they quickly fall into a pit

1434
01:17:51,479 --> 01:17:55,760
Speaker 1: and end up trapped inside prison cells. Now they will

1435
01:17:55,760 --> 01:17:58,200
Speaker 1: get out of these eventually released by the Fairy Una

1436
01:17:58,320 --> 01:18:01,599
Speaker 1: after she reveals that she had abilities that even Gump

1437
01:18:01,640 --> 01:18:05,599
Speaker 1: did not know of before. She's interesting because she's one

1438
01:18:05,640 --> 01:18:09,880
Speaker 1: of the heroes. But she's capricious, you know, she doesn't

1439
01:18:09,920 --> 01:18:11,800
Speaker 1: want to be pinned down. She's like, I'll do what

1440
01:18:11,880 --> 01:18:14,960
Speaker 1: I want, and you know, just so happens that that

1441
01:18:15,360 --> 01:18:17,960
Speaker 1: turns out to be helping them sometimes. But she also

1442
01:18:18,080 --> 01:18:21,280
Speaker 1: wants Tom cruise. By the way, Yes, but while in

1443
01:18:21,320 --> 01:18:24,559
Speaker 1: this prison, they meet the goblin Blunder, who reveals he

1444
01:18:24,720 --> 01:18:27,639
Speaker 1: is not actually a goblin. He takes his helmet off

1445
01:18:27,680 --> 01:18:30,040
Speaker 1: and we learned that he is one of the hidden

1446
01:18:30,080 --> 01:18:32,880
Speaker 1: folk of the forest and known to Screwball and Brown Tom.

1447
01:18:33,680 --> 01:18:35,880
Speaker 1: But I guess he sort of went astray and now

1448
01:18:35,920 --> 01:18:39,080
Speaker 1: he's back on the team. But unfortunately, right after they

1449
01:18:39,120 --> 01:18:42,880
Speaker 1: meet him and realize who he is, he gets snatched

1450
01:18:42,960 --> 01:18:46,200
Speaker 1: up by their jailers and the dungeon and taken away

1451
01:18:46,400 --> 01:18:50,200
Speaker 1: to be baked into a pie. Because this dungeon is

1452
01:18:50,360 --> 01:18:54,240
Speaker 1: right next to the kitchens of Hell. This set, we

1453
01:18:54,320 --> 01:18:57,080
Speaker 1: need to talk about the hell kitchens. Here. There's this

1454
01:18:57,360 --> 01:19:01,400
Speaker 1: doctor Salvador prep table in this blow bucket kitchen, where

1455
01:19:01,439 --> 01:19:04,720
Speaker 1: like right in the middle of the floor there are

1456
01:19:04,880 --> 01:19:10,280
Speaker 1: random fires burning, so it's like a barbecue preparation area

1457
01:19:10,320 --> 01:19:13,080
Speaker 1: attended by like bondage axe murderers.

1458
01:19:13,880 --> 01:19:18,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're like big ogres and like execution hoods just

1459
01:19:18,960 --> 01:19:23,000
Speaker 3: very physically intimidating. The fires are just raging, like just

1460
01:19:23,080 --> 01:19:27,480
Speaker 3: out of control levels of flame. It's like a delirious

1461
01:19:27,560 --> 01:19:30,439
Speaker 3: vision of hell, like a baroque mashup of Texas chainsaw

1462
01:19:30,520 --> 01:19:35,280
Speaker 3: massacre and a medieval wood cut. And they're also throughout

1463
01:19:35,600 --> 01:19:38,680
Speaker 3: like the last half or third of the picture. There

1464
01:19:38,680 --> 01:19:41,720
Speaker 3: are also just lots of creepy statues, Like there's a

1465
01:19:41,760 --> 01:19:45,679
Speaker 3: pazuzu statue from that pops up twice, I think, once

1466
01:19:45,720 --> 01:19:48,360
Speaker 3: in the swamp and then once in the depths of

1467
01:19:48,400 --> 01:19:52,320
Speaker 3: the underworld here. Sometimes those statues are actually alive and

1468
01:19:52,360 --> 01:19:57,280
Speaker 3: they move. So there's just a very rich, disturbing visual

1469
01:19:57,320 --> 01:19:59,400
Speaker 3: world down here in the hell. Kitchens are just yeah,

1470
01:19:59,439 --> 01:20:00,479
Speaker 3: absolutely terrifying.

1471
01:20:00,920 --> 01:20:03,519
Speaker 1: Now, there's also an extended series of scenes, a kind

1472
01:20:03,560 --> 01:20:05,920
Speaker 1: of drama here where after Lily is brought to the

1473
01:20:05,920 --> 01:20:10,320
Speaker 1: palace as a captive, Darkness decides that he wants to

1474
01:20:10,439 --> 01:20:14,799
Speaker 1: seduce her, and he's sort of instructed by this other voice,

1475
01:20:14,920 --> 01:20:18,120
Speaker 1: this kind of statue or other god speaking to him.

1476
01:20:18,120 --> 01:20:21,599
Speaker 1: I think it says, make her one of us, and

1477
01:20:21,640 --> 01:20:25,560
Speaker 1: so that's his goal. He wants to take the innocence

1478
01:20:25,600 --> 01:20:29,080
Speaker 1: of the princess and to make her evil as well,

1479
01:20:29,120 --> 01:20:31,680
Speaker 1: to bring her into the darkness and make her a

1480
01:20:31,760 --> 01:20:32,720
Speaker 1: creature of the night.

1481
01:20:33,720 --> 01:20:36,360
Speaker 3: You know, it's interesting that you look at this in Labyrinth,

1482
01:20:36,400 --> 01:20:38,760
Speaker 3: two films being made at the same time, next door

1483
01:20:38,800 --> 01:20:41,880
Speaker 3: to each other. They both have very similar elements in

1484
01:20:41,920 --> 01:20:45,360
Speaker 3: that you have a dark lord who is pleading with

1485
01:20:45,680 --> 01:20:49,320
Speaker 3: like trying to seduce and ultimately just offering to be

1486
01:20:49,400 --> 01:20:52,519
Speaker 3: subservient to a woman. He is in love with a

1487
01:20:52,560 --> 01:20:57,880
Speaker 3: mortal woman, and they I'm to understand that with Labyrinth too,

1488
01:20:58,200 --> 01:21:00,799
Speaker 3: they were aware of what was going on in Legend

1489
01:21:01,080 --> 01:21:04,479
Speaker 3: and made deliberate choices with Jareth the Goblin Goblin King

1490
01:21:04,880 --> 01:21:08,719
Speaker 3: to portray him in a less like overtly satanic manner

1491
01:21:09,040 --> 01:21:11,479
Speaker 3: and like finding a different sort of form for him.

1492
01:21:11,560 --> 01:21:13,960
Speaker 3: But it is interesting that, yeah, out of the same

1493
01:21:14,160 --> 01:21:18,880
Speaker 3: production timeline, you're getting like these two different I guess

1494
01:21:18,920 --> 01:21:25,000
Speaker 3: kind of like equally iconic versions of somebody's potential supernatural boyfriend,

1495
01:21:25,120 --> 01:21:29,200
Speaker 3: you know, from beyond the realm of mortals. You know.

1496
01:21:29,240 --> 01:21:31,439
Speaker 3: So it's like, ultimately, like who do you see yourself

1497
01:21:31,479 --> 01:21:35,639
Speaker 3: with on the dating show? Is it Darkness the Prince

1498
01:21:35,680 --> 01:21:38,880
Speaker 3: of Evil, or is it Jareth the Goblin King, I

1499
01:21:38,920 --> 01:21:41,320
Speaker 3: don't know, your preference may vary.

1500
01:21:41,680 --> 01:21:44,920
Speaker 1: But now Lily here goes through a transformation. At some

1501
01:21:44,920 --> 01:21:47,479
Speaker 1: point she gets a kind of spell cast on her

1502
01:21:48,160 --> 01:21:51,960
Speaker 1: while in the banquet Hall of Darkness here, and she

1503
01:21:52,160 --> 01:21:58,719
Speaker 1: becomes gothly. She like transforms to have this bizarre gown

1504
01:21:58,880 --> 01:22:02,080
Speaker 1: with like there's sort of this this we were talking about,

1505
01:22:02,120 --> 01:22:07,639
Speaker 1: this big extending triangular hood or collar thing, and then

1506
01:22:07,760 --> 01:22:09,680
Speaker 1: like a big V cut in the middle of it,

1507
01:22:10,040 --> 01:22:13,080
Speaker 1: and her hair gets very stringy and dark, and she's

1508
01:22:13,080 --> 01:22:15,160
Speaker 1: got this, I don't know what you call it, the

1509
01:22:15,360 --> 01:22:20,120
Speaker 1: kind of a a twiggy, twiggy black crown on her head.

1510
01:22:20,479 --> 01:22:23,720
Speaker 1: It's a it's a very strange and interesting look and

1511
01:22:23,880 --> 01:22:27,599
Speaker 1: props again to the costume designers there. But so there's

1512
01:22:27,640 --> 01:22:30,800
Speaker 1: like it's it's to symbolize that she has in a

1513
01:22:30,840 --> 01:22:33,800
Speaker 1: way had a spell cast over her. But she that

1514
01:22:33,880 --> 01:22:36,840
Speaker 1: doesn't mean she's been like hypnotized fully by the Lord

1515
01:22:36,840 --> 01:22:39,120
Speaker 1: of Darkness, because she's still not into him at this point.

1516
01:22:39,160 --> 01:22:42,800
Speaker 1: He's he's trying to make all these you know, seducing

1517
01:22:42,840 --> 01:22:46,080
Speaker 1: her to evil kind of moves, and she she's still

1518
01:22:46,120 --> 01:22:48,839
Speaker 1: screaming like, no, I will do nothing for your pleasure,

1519
01:22:49,920 --> 01:22:53,920
Speaker 1: but In the end, she does appear to make a turn.

1520
01:22:54,360 --> 01:22:57,080
Speaker 1: She says, Okay, I will stay with you here if

1521
01:22:57,280 --> 01:23:01,439
Speaker 1: you will grant me one thing. Let me be the

1522
01:23:01,439 --> 01:23:04,439
Speaker 1: one who cuts the throat of the last unicorn instead

1523
01:23:04,439 --> 01:23:06,960
Speaker 1: of you and Tim Curry. You could just see him.

1524
01:23:07,000 --> 01:23:09,280
Speaker 1: He's like, yes, yes, He's.

1525
01:23:09,200 --> 01:23:11,479
Speaker 3: Like, this is exactly the sort of thing I'm into,

1526
01:23:11,520 --> 01:23:13,320
Speaker 3: and I'm so glad you are into it as well.

1527
01:23:13,760 --> 01:23:14,000
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1528
01:23:14,120 --> 01:23:16,880
Speaker 3: But oh but before we get to that point, I

1529
01:23:16,960 --> 01:23:19,920
Speaker 3: have to talk about her brow though. Oh because yeah,

1530
01:23:20,000 --> 01:23:24,080
Speaker 3: because yeah, her costume of goth Lily is amazing, you know,

1531
01:23:24,240 --> 01:23:27,040
Speaker 3: the makeup is amazing. But they make a seemingly very

1532
01:23:27,080 --> 01:23:32,280
Speaker 3: deliberate choice to narrow and nearly unify her brow. So

1533
01:23:32,360 --> 01:23:36,559
Speaker 3: she has this very sweek monobrow youni brow going on

1534
01:23:36,680 --> 01:23:39,160
Speaker 3: here in a way that is that is of course

1535
01:23:39,200 --> 01:23:42,320
Speaker 3: also very like beautiful and hot. Don't don't get me wrong.

1536
01:23:42,560 --> 01:23:43,160
Speaker 1: It is enough.

1537
01:23:43,240 --> 01:23:45,720
Speaker 3: It is like the kind of like stylized you a

1538
01:23:45,800 --> 01:23:48,120
Speaker 3: brow that can make you realize, you know, it is

1539
01:23:48,320 --> 01:23:51,439
Speaker 3: like maybe a silly cultural thing that some of us

1540
01:23:51,479 --> 01:23:54,080
Speaker 3: don't think brows should grow together, because here's proof that

1541
01:23:54,160 --> 01:23:58,080
Speaker 3: it can look really cool. But like, first they made

1542
01:23:58,080 --> 01:24:01,200
Speaker 3: this decision, and I wonder, like how how they talked

1543
01:24:01,200 --> 01:24:03,439
Speaker 3: about it behind the scenes, where they're like, I really

1544
01:24:03,439 --> 01:24:06,360
Speaker 3: think we need to give her a unibrow here, and

1545
01:24:06,400 --> 01:24:08,280
Speaker 3: like maybe people were doubtful and then they saw the

1546
01:24:08,280 --> 01:24:10,160
Speaker 3: results and they're like, no, you got it. This is

1547
01:24:10,240 --> 01:24:12,360
Speaker 3: exactly what God Lily needs.

1548
01:24:12,600 --> 01:24:16,240
Speaker 1: So the audience at this point may be left to wonder, like, Okay,

1549
01:24:16,600 --> 01:24:19,680
Speaker 1: has she fully been captured by the darkness? Does she

1550
01:24:19,720 --> 01:24:21,840
Speaker 1: want to kill the unicorn for real? But no, No,

1551
01:24:21,920 --> 01:24:24,880
Speaker 1: Lily has a plan, and Jack's about to get a

1552
01:24:24,880 --> 01:24:28,160
Speaker 1: plan too. Like the Jack and his friends, they've snuck

1553
01:24:28,200 --> 01:24:30,960
Speaker 1: into the palace and they're like peeking through a through

1554
01:24:31,000 --> 01:24:34,080
Speaker 1: a window and watching what's going on. And so Jack

1555
01:24:34,160 --> 01:24:37,800
Speaker 1: comes up with an idea that involves bringing light into

1556
01:24:37,840 --> 01:24:39,840
Speaker 1: the darkness. So they need to go gather a bunch

1557
01:24:39,840 --> 01:24:42,640
Speaker 1: of big shiny plates from the hell Kitchens to have

1558
01:24:42,720 --> 01:24:45,439
Speaker 1: shiny plates for some reason that they're going to use

1559
01:24:45,560 --> 01:24:49,759
Speaker 1: to create a series of reflector beams to bring sunlight

1560
01:24:49,800 --> 01:24:52,599
Speaker 1: from up above down into the darkness where it will

1561
01:24:52,600 --> 01:24:56,679
Speaker 1: destroy Tim Curry now on the way. At one point

1562
01:24:56,760 --> 01:24:59,680
Speaker 1: they get drawn into a fight with the ogres and

1563
01:24:59,720 --> 01:25:04,040
Speaker 1: the Hell Kitchen. I think they they beat them by

1564
01:25:04,080 --> 01:25:08,280
Speaker 1: like dumping out a big pot of broth. Unclear exactly

1565
01:25:08,360 --> 01:25:10,120
Speaker 1: how this fight is resolved.

1566
01:25:09,640 --> 01:25:12,719
Speaker 3: Here now, yeah, I'm not sure either, but while it's happening,

1567
01:25:12,760 --> 01:25:14,439
Speaker 3: the fight is very cool. There's a lot of running

1568
01:25:14,479 --> 01:25:17,320
Speaker 3: around and jumping and dodging, and of course the set

1569
01:25:17,360 --> 01:25:17,959
Speaker 3: is amazing.

1570
01:25:18,479 --> 01:25:20,599
Speaker 1: And skipping over a few more things that go on

1571
01:25:20,640 --> 01:25:22,240
Speaker 1: in the palace here, it all leads up to this

1572
01:25:22,280 --> 01:25:26,439
Speaker 1: final confrontation where Lily and Darkness are down there with

1573
01:25:26,520 --> 01:25:30,040
Speaker 1: the last unicorn and Lily is about to exercise her

1574
01:25:30,040 --> 01:25:33,080
Speaker 1: privilege to be the one to put an end to

1575
01:25:33,200 --> 01:25:37,160
Speaker 1: all goodness and bring on the forever night, and Jack

1576
01:25:37,240 --> 01:25:40,280
Speaker 1: and Honeythorn Gump are They've got the plans set up

1577
01:25:40,280 --> 01:25:42,639
Speaker 1: to bring the light in and they're watching from above

1578
01:25:42,760 --> 01:25:45,559
Speaker 1: with bows drawn as this is about to happen, and

1579
01:25:45,640 --> 01:25:47,960
Speaker 1: Gump is saying, oh, no, she's going to kill the unicorn.

1580
01:25:47,960 --> 01:25:51,080
Speaker 1: You've got a stopper, Jack, But Jack says, no, I

1581
01:25:51,200 --> 01:25:53,240
Speaker 1: trust you, Lily, And so this is a sort of

1582
01:25:53,280 --> 01:25:56,400
Speaker 1: repeated idea that he puts his trust in her, and

1583
01:25:56,479 --> 01:25:59,120
Speaker 1: it was well placed, because she in fact does not

1584
01:25:59,320 --> 01:26:02,040
Speaker 1: go through with hurting the unicorn. She instead cuts it

1585
01:26:02,080 --> 01:26:05,640
Speaker 1: free of its bindings, and then it kicks off a

1586
01:26:05,680 --> 01:26:09,200
Speaker 1: final action scene where Jack rushes in to fight the

1587
01:26:09,240 --> 01:26:12,519
Speaker 1: Lord of Darkness and put an end to this once

1588
01:26:12,560 --> 01:26:17,360
Speaker 1: and for all. The fight scene here, I'm of mixed

1589
01:26:17,400 --> 01:26:21,240
Speaker 1: opinions about it. It has some cool elements, something about

1590
01:26:21,240 --> 01:26:24,120
Speaker 1: it feels kind of thrown together in a way, but

1591
01:26:24,320 --> 01:26:26,120
Speaker 1: individual moments of it I like.

1592
01:26:26,720 --> 01:26:29,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think the thing I was most impressed by

1593
01:26:29,680 --> 01:26:33,400
Speaker 3: is that Darkness still feels like a cohesive entity here,

1594
01:26:33,840 --> 01:26:36,400
Speaker 3: despite the fact that we're suddenly seeing him move around

1595
01:26:36,439 --> 01:26:39,160
Speaker 3: a lot more like he's swinging a giant sword. He's

1596
01:26:39,200 --> 01:26:42,320
Speaker 3: like shooting fire from his fingertips, and in one sequence

1597
01:26:42,439 --> 01:26:45,960
Speaker 3: like runs like charges like a bull at Jack and

1598
01:26:46,360 --> 01:26:49,280
Speaker 3: sort of like pins into the wall and snarls at him.

1599
01:26:50,560 --> 01:26:52,840
Speaker 3: And I feel like like, if the effects were not

1600
01:26:53,040 --> 01:26:57,360
Speaker 3: just so on point here, either this wouldn't feel believable

1601
01:26:57,520 --> 01:26:59,880
Speaker 3: or we wouldn't see an attempt like this at all.

1602
01:27:00,400 --> 01:27:02,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I agree U. And he has some great

1603
01:27:02,960 --> 01:27:05,200
Speaker 1: dialogue in the scene too, like while they're fighting, at

1604
01:27:05,240 --> 01:27:08,800
Speaker 1: one point, Darkness says, every wolf suffers fleas 'tis easy

1605
01:27:08,880 --> 01:27:13,080
Speaker 1: enough to scratch. Oh, and then at the final defeat, Okay,

1606
01:27:13,120 --> 01:27:15,720
Speaker 1: so you know, they blow the doors open with the

1607
01:27:15,720 --> 01:27:18,880
Speaker 1: sunlight brought in through the maze of mirrors, and it

1608
01:27:18,960 --> 01:27:21,760
Speaker 1: shines a big ray of sunlight onto darkness, which is

1609
01:27:22,000 --> 01:27:25,679
Speaker 1: a destructive It like unleashes this destructive gale upon him

1610
01:27:26,080 --> 01:27:29,760
Speaker 1: that blows him out through this big sort of aperture

1611
01:27:29,840 --> 01:27:31,840
Speaker 1: we've seen in the wall. There's like this gap in

1612
01:27:31,880 --> 01:27:35,200
Speaker 1: the wall that seems to lead out into space and

1613
01:27:35,240 --> 01:27:38,200
Speaker 1: the night. We just see black and stars beyond it.

1614
01:27:39,160 --> 01:27:41,599
Speaker 1: And as he's being blown out, Darkness says, you think

1615
01:27:41,640 --> 01:27:44,160
Speaker 1: you have won? What is light without dark? What are

1616
01:27:44,200 --> 01:27:46,600
Speaker 1: you without me? I'm a part of you all. You

1617
01:27:46,640 --> 01:27:50,240
Speaker 1: can never defeat me. We are brothers eternal. But he

1618
01:27:50,400 --> 01:27:54,680
Speaker 1: is seemingly defeated. He's blown out into space. And I

1619
01:27:54,840 --> 01:27:58,360
Speaker 1: just want to point out for comparison, so the villain

1620
01:27:58,400 --> 01:28:01,719
Speaker 1: of this movie is destroyed by being sucked out into space.

1621
01:28:01,840 --> 01:28:04,400
Speaker 1: How is the Starbis defeated at the end of Alien,

1622
01:28:04,479 --> 01:28:08,120
Speaker 1: also by Ridley Scott from several years earlier, blown out

1623
01:28:08,200 --> 01:28:11,160
Speaker 1: the airlock. Both of these movies end with the villain

1624
01:28:11,280 --> 01:28:14,559
Speaker 1: being the villain nor the monster being blown out into space.

1625
01:28:14,880 --> 01:28:19,960
Speaker 3: That's also how Gladiator defeated Emperor Commutists in that movie, right,

1626
01:28:20,040 --> 01:28:21,800
Speaker 3: just out through the airlock, you know.

1627
01:28:21,920 --> 01:28:24,880
Speaker 1: Strangely, I would say, Thelma and Louise does have an

1628
01:28:24,920 --> 01:28:26,960
Speaker 1: almost kind of out into space ending.

1629
01:28:27,439 --> 01:28:30,559
Speaker 3: That's true, Yeah, like into the void. I guess you

1630
01:28:30,560 --> 01:28:31,040
Speaker 3: could say.

1631
01:28:31,120 --> 01:28:34,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, Now, after the evil is defeated, the unicorn is

1632
01:28:34,240 --> 01:28:37,599
Speaker 1: all right. Somehow we see the other unicorn revived, so

1633
01:28:37,600 --> 01:28:41,679
Speaker 1: now they're both okay. The supernatural winter ends, Lily is freed,

1634
01:28:41,760 --> 01:28:45,040
Speaker 1: and everything can go back to normal. I think depending

1635
01:28:45,080 --> 01:28:48,040
Speaker 1: on which cut of the film you are seeing, there'll

1636
01:28:48,040 --> 01:28:50,160
Speaker 1: be a slightly different ending. There might be one where

1637
01:28:50,160 --> 01:28:52,200
Speaker 1: it seems like they're going to get married or something.

1638
01:28:52,720 --> 01:28:56,040
Speaker 1: I think there is one ending where we hear darkness

1639
01:28:56,120 --> 01:29:00,800
Speaker 1: laughing after the happy ending, suggesting, oh, he's act coming back.

1640
01:29:01,320 --> 01:29:06,320
Speaker 1: The ending of the director's cuts has them coming to

1641
01:29:06,400 --> 01:29:11,759
Speaker 1: a kind of bittersweet agreement where Jack and Lily conclude

1642
01:29:11,800 --> 01:29:15,240
Speaker 1: that Jack can't really be part of Lily's world, that

1643
01:29:15,280 --> 01:29:18,360
Speaker 1: he is going to have to stay in the forest,

1644
01:29:18,400 --> 01:29:20,479
Speaker 1: But she says, can I come visit you every day?

1645
01:29:20,520 --> 01:29:22,320
Speaker 1: And he says yes, all right.

1646
01:29:22,360 --> 01:29:25,200
Speaker 3: I guess this getting into the the basic thesis statement

1647
01:29:25,320 --> 01:29:28,640
Speaker 3: that our heroes are going to have to embrace darkness

1648
01:29:28,640 --> 01:29:30,120
Speaker 3: and light, that they're going to have to find some

1649
01:29:30,280 --> 01:29:33,559
Speaker 3: balance of things, and that maybe, like the ideal happy

1650
01:29:33,680 --> 01:29:37,280
Speaker 3: ending isn't really in the cards, but I don't know.

1651
01:29:37,320 --> 01:29:39,840
Speaker 3: But then I don't know. Especially in the US theatrical cut,

1652
01:29:39,920 --> 01:29:43,160
Speaker 3: it does feel a lot more good conquers everything, you know,

1653
01:29:43,200 --> 01:29:46,479
Speaker 3: good over evil, And then we can't argue with those songs.

1654
01:29:46,520 --> 01:29:49,880
Speaker 3: We're hit first with that Tangerine Dream vocal track, and

1655
01:29:49,960 --> 01:29:52,719
Speaker 3: then we get your love Is your love strong enough?

1656
01:29:53,000 --> 01:29:55,679
Speaker 3: And the answer is yes, clearly, The answer is yes

1657
01:29:55,760 --> 01:30:00,000
Speaker 3: a million times. Yes, love is absolutely strong enough.

1658
01:30:00,520 --> 01:30:03,560
Speaker 1: Is your love strong enough to turn the world into garbage?

1659
01:30:03,760 --> 01:30:05,599
Speaker 1: One great big mountain of slop?

1660
01:30:07,760 --> 01:30:11,599
Speaker 3: All right, Well, there you have it. Legend from Ridley Scott.

1661
01:30:12,240 --> 01:30:14,160
Speaker 3: I'd be very interested to hear what everyone out there

1662
01:30:14,200 --> 01:30:16,280
Speaker 3: has to say about this film, like did you see it?

1663
01:30:16,680 --> 01:30:20,040
Speaker 3: What version did you initially see, and what were your impressions?

1664
01:30:20,080 --> 01:30:23,639
Speaker 3: And has it grown on you over the years, like again,

1665
01:30:23,680 --> 01:30:25,840
Speaker 3: like it's a film that had such an impact on me,

1666
01:30:26,040 --> 01:30:29,439
Speaker 3: like visually that it's always stuck with me, but it's

1667
01:30:29,479 --> 01:30:31,400
Speaker 3: also a film that I always come back to and

1668
01:30:31,400 --> 01:30:33,360
Speaker 3: realize that well, you know, it's a little rough around

1669
01:30:33,360 --> 01:30:35,680
Speaker 3: the edges in the in the end, but you know,

1670
01:30:35,760 --> 01:30:39,439
Speaker 3: it's definitely developed its own cult following, and it has become

1671
01:30:39,600 --> 01:30:40,639
Speaker 3: iconic in its own right.

1672
01:30:41,120 --> 01:30:44,200
Speaker 1: I can't deny there's something about it that just doesn't

1673
01:30:44,280 --> 01:30:46,400
Speaker 1: quite come together. And yet I'm not going to get

1674
01:30:46,479 --> 01:30:48,320
Speaker 1: rid of my copy. I know I'm going to be

1675
01:30:48,320 --> 01:30:49,080
Speaker 1: watching it again.

1676
01:30:49,880 --> 01:30:51,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is a great one to put on. I've

1677
01:30:51,560 --> 01:30:53,599
Speaker 3: played this one before just in the background with other

1678
01:30:53,680 --> 01:30:55,759
Speaker 3: music on top of it, and it's always a delight.

1679
01:30:56,120 --> 01:30:56,880
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1680
01:30:56,960 --> 01:30:58,360
Speaker 3: All right, Well we're going to go and close out

1681
01:30:58,400 --> 01:31:01,200
Speaker 3: this episode of Weird House Cinema, but we'll be back

1682
01:31:01,320 --> 01:31:04,280
Speaker 3: with the future installments, which air on Fridays in the

1683
01:31:04,280 --> 01:31:06,240
Speaker 3: Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast feed. If you want

1684
01:31:06,240 --> 01:31:07,760
Speaker 3: to see a full list of the movies we've covered

1685
01:31:07,800 --> 01:31:10,120
Speaker 3: over the years for Weird House Cinema, go to letterbox

1686
01:31:10,160 --> 01:31:11,840
Speaker 3: dot com. It's L E T E R B o

1687
01:31:12,000 --> 01:31:14,160
Speaker 3: x D dot com. You'll find us on there. Our

1688
01:31:14,240 --> 01:31:16,439
Speaker 3: user name is weird House and there's a list of

1689
01:31:16,479 --> 01:31:18,639
Speaker 3: all the films we've covered and sometimes a peek ahead

1690
01:31:18,680 --> 01:31:21,360
Speaker 3: at what's coming out next. Also, if you're on Instagram,

1691
01:31:21,400 --> 01:31:24,200
Speaker 3: go to st b ym podcast. That's the Stuff to

1692
01:31:24,200 --> 01:31:27,799
Speaker 3: Blow Your Mind podcast channel handle and you'll get updates

1693
01:31:27,840 --> 01:31:28,360
Speaker 3: there as well.

1694
01:31:28,880 --> 01:31:32,680
Speaker 1: Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer Jjposway.

1695
01:31:33,080 --> 01:31:34,599
Speaker 1: If you would like to get in touch with us

1696
01:31:34,600 --> 01:31:37,080
Speaker 1: with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest

1697
01:31:37,080 --> 01:31:39,080
Speaker 1: a topic for the future, or just to say hello,

1698
01:31:39,200 --> 01:31:41,679
Speaker 1: you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow

1699
01:31:41,680 --> 01:31:49,240
Speaker 1: your Mind dot com.

1700
01:31:49,360 --> 01:31:52,280
Speaker 2: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

1701
01:31:52,360 --> 01:31:55,160
Speaker 2: more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1702
01:31:55,320 --> 01:31:58,400
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.