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Speaker 1: It's time to get inside the Giants. Hulet's go, let's go,

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Speaker 1: Let's go, Giants. Get my Giants, bull give me some job.

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Speaker 2: Part of the Giants Podcast Network.

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Speaker 1: Let's roll.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to the news edition of the Giants Little Podcast,

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Speaker 3: brought to you by Citizens, the official bank of the

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Speaker 3: New York Football Giants.

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Speaker 1: I am John Schmelk.

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Speaker 3: We're joined by two friends of the program. They're now retired.

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Speaker 3: They're enjoying their retirement very well. But you know them

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Speaker 3: very well. Two longtime gentlemen that covered the National Football League.

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Speaker 3: You have Gary Myers, who covered the NFL for a

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Speaker 3: long time for the Deli News, among other places, and

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Speaker 3: then Bob Blobber, who covered the NFL for News Day.

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Speaker 1: Gentlemen, it's good to see, it's good to talk to you.

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Speaker 1: How Why are you this morning?

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Speaker 2: Doing great? How are you doing time?

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Speaker 1: How about you? Bob?

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Speaker 4: I'm great, I'm retired. Myers is still he's still he's still,

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Speaker 4: you know, grinding books.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, yes, and we have a chance for both

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Speaker 3: of you. Guys have talking about what you're doing at

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Speaker 3: the end of the pod. All right, so guys, we

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Speaker 3: found out Eli Man did not make the Pro Football

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Speaker 3: Hall of Fame at NFL Honors on Thursday night. Sterley Sharp,

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Speaker 3: Antonio Gates, Jared Allen, and Eric Allen were the four

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Speaker 3: members that got in, all deserving a smaller class than

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Speaker 3: we've had in a while. Gary, let's start with you.

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Speaker 3: Let's talk about how close do you think Eli got

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Speaker 3: and kind of where he was in the process, and

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Speaker 3: then we'll kind of talk more about how this whole

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Speaker 3: thing went down.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I was surprised. First of all, I

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Speaker 2: thought he had a chance to get in. I wasn't

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Speaker 2: overly confident based on things I had heard, but I

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Speaker 2: thought there was still a chance. It What blew me

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Speaker 2: away is when we started voting, you know, the vocals

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Speaker 2: from fifteen to ten and then ten to seven, and

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Speaker 2: then seven you vote fe top five. Eli didn't even

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Speaker 2: make the cut to ten, and I was I mean,

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Speaker 2: I can't tell you how surprised I was about that.

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Speaker 2: But after listening to the conversation, you know, after Bob

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Speaker 2: did a great job. I'm not just saying that, but

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Speaker 2: he really did an outstanding job making the presentation for Eli.

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Speaker 2: And you know, we had talked about some things ahead

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Speaker 2: of time, and I knew with some openings perhaps about

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Speaker 2: things that I can discuss that Bob wasn't gonna touched on.

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Speaker 2: So I think between the two of us, you know,

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Speaker 2: we really covered everything about Eli and advocated for him

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Speaker 2: really strongly. I was just surprised, and I'm only telling

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Speaker 2: you this part because it's kind of out there ready

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Speaker 2: about the fact that on the first cut Eli didn't

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Speaker 2: make it to ten. It's already out there he didn't

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Speaker 2: make it to seven, because anybody who makes it to

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Speaker 2: seven and didn't get in this year automatically becomes a

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Speaker 2: finalist next year. I you know, I'll let Bob go here.

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Speaker 2: But I was just really surprised about the pushback we

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Speaker 2: were getting in that meeting and how much anti Eli

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Speaker 2: sentiment there was.

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Speaker 3: All Right, so, Bob, why don't you kind of give

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Speaker 3: us the the broad strokes of your presentation and the

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Speaker 3: case you made for for Eli to gain into the hole.

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Speaker 4: Well, you know, listen, his career is pretty much self explanatory,

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Speaker 4: and I kind of went into that, went into generally,

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Speaker 4: you know, look, start out with the Super Bowl MVP

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Speaker 4: runs and those two games. I even started off with

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Speaker 4: Ernie of Corsi talking about where he was for that

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Speaker 4: first Super Bowl win, right, before Eli went on that

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Speaker 4: drive that included the David Tyree catch, and Ernie was

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Speaker 4: very eloquent in talking about you know, he's sitting next

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Speaker 4: to sitting with his family in the stands, and he

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Speaker 4: turns to his son. He says, he's if he is

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Speaker 4: what we thought he was going to be, he's gonna

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Speaker 4: do it right here. And obviously he did that. So

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Speaker 4: I you know, I think the arguments are pretty compelling.

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Speaker 4: I understand there are some issues that voters have. And look,

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Speaker 4: he was one hundred and seventeen and one hundred and

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Speaker 4: seventeen regular season for his career, okay, but he was

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Speaker 4: eight and four with two marvelous playoff runs, both of

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Speaker 4: which culminated with Super Bowl MVPs against the team for

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Speaker 4: the ages, the quarterback for the ages, and the coach

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Speaker 4: for the ages. So you know, but listen, you can

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Speaker 4: only present what you can present, and then the discussion

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Speaker 4: takes place. And I agree with Gary. The pushback was

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Speaker 4: like wow, in fact, you know, the way you do

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Speaker 4: it is you make the presentation, there's discussion, and then

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Speaker 4: after the after the discussion is over, they come back

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Speaker 4: to you and say, you know, what do you have

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Speaker 4: to add? And I did have some stuff to add,

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Speaker 4: but I said, I'm okay, I'm okay, like as a

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Speaker 4: reference to wha you know, getting bounded, but went into

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Speaker 4: my spiel. But it was it was pretty enlightening that

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Speaker 4: there was that much pushback on a guy who I

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Speaker 4: believe in. Gary believes, and I think people who have

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Speaker 4: seen Ela up close believe what we're seeing is the

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Speaker 4: Hall of Fame quarterback.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I agree, And Gary, I want to get

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Speaker 3: you on the pushback in a second, But Bob curious

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Speaker 3: on these presentations, do you like get maybe testimonials is

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Speaker 3: the wrong word, but do you get stuff from like

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Speaker 3: like Bill Belichick's been very open that look, I think

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Speaker 3: he deserves to be in I'm sure Tom Brady would

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Speaker 3: say the same thing. Do you like gather stuff from

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Speaker 3: his contemporaries to help you make the case that he

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Speaker 3: deserves to be enshrined?

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Speaker 4: Yes, I mean you could do it anyway you like.

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Speaker 4: But I find that and Gary does this too. You know,

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Speaker 4: we we do get testimonials and we present them. I

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Speaker 4: saved some for the you know, follow up discussion, but

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Speaker 4: I delivered most in the you know presentation, so people

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Speaker 4: people hear them. I don't know if it makes a

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Speaker 4: ton of difference. But you know, when you get respected

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Speaker 4: people in the business talking about somebody who they think

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Speaker 4: should be in the Hall of Fame and you think

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Speaker 4: should be in the Hall of Fame, you know, it's

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Speaker 4: pretty impactful. It can be pretty impactful.

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Speaker 3: Is this in person or is this over zoom? By

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Speaker 3: the way, that's over zoom.

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Speaker 4: It used to be in person, then COVID hit. They

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Speaker 4: tried to get us together in person last year, but

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Speaker 4: travel got messed up. So it's gonna stay at zoom,

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Speaker 4: I think.

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Speaker 3: So I'm just get you, like, people just say yell

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Speaker 3: over each other, people raise their hands in the zoom, Like,

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Speaker 3: how does the whole thing even work?

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Speaker 1: I'm just curious.

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Speaker 2: Now there's a button on the zoom set up that

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Speaker 2: you can raise your hand and they recognize you in

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Speaker 2: order of that you raise your hand. It would be

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Speaker 2: more chaotic than.

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Speaker 3: It actually absolutely all right, So Gary, you talked about it,

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Speaker 3: and obviously, folks, just so you know, there is a

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Speaker 3: certain level here. The Hall of Fame doesn't want so

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Speaker 3: much out there in terms of the exact details of

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Speaker 3: who says what the voting process. So Bob and Gary

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Speaker 3: are going to give you as much as they can here,

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Speaker 3: but there are rules.

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Speaker 1: Involved in how the Hall wants is handled.

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Speaker 3: So in the broad strokes that you can share, Gary,

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Speaker 3: what was the majority of the pushback against Eli when

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Speaker 3: that conversation began.

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Speaker 2: Well, it was really you know, the fact that he

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Speaker 2: was one hundred and seventeen and one hundred and seventeen

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Speaker 2: in the regular season, but his record from two thousand

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Speaker 2: and four, as you guys know when he took over,

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Speaker 2: and he was one and six in the last seven

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Speaker 2: games from that point through the twenty twelve season. I

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Speaker 2: don't have the numbers in front of me, but he

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Speaker 2: had a very impressive starting record. I mean it was multiple,

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Speaker 2: multiple games over five hundred. I can't remember it was

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Speaker 2: twenty or twenty five or whatever, but you know, over

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Speaker 2: the last seven or so years of his career he

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Speaker 2: was way under five hundred, and I think that's more

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Speaker 2: of a function of the front office did not do

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Speaker 2: a great job surrounding Eli at that point. As you know,

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Speaker 2: the two offensive lines that helped helped win the Super Bowls.

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Speaker 2: As those players start to retire or the skills diminished,

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Speaker 2: they didn't replenish the offensive line is you know, without

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Speaker 2: getting into all the draft picks. We know that the

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Speaker 2: skill position players. Odell Beckham was really his only consistent weapon,

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Speaker 2: but he was like a shooting star. I mean, how

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Speaker 2: long was Odell well a great player for Eli? It

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Speaker 2: wasn't long enough. And as history was shown, Odell should

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Speaker 2: have kept his mouth shut and stayed in New York

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Speaker 2: and his career would have you know, I think turned

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Speaker 2: out much better. So I think Eli's record over the

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Speaker 2: you know, people are saying, you know, if he retired

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Speaker 2: after twenty twelve, he would have been inter reaty because

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Speaker 2: he had a great record. He has a two times

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Speaker 2: Super Bowl MVP and there wasn't much you know, bad

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Speaker 2: you can say about him. But you know, the pushback

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Speaker 2: a lot of it had to do with his record.

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Speaker 2: At one point, Bob, I don't know if you remember this,

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Speaker 2: I said, guys, like, what are we doing here? Is

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Speaker 2: there an anti Manning sentiment among us here? Because otherwise

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Speaker 2: this doesn't make any sense. I mean, he's one of

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Speaker 2: the few quarterbacks that have won multiple Super Bowl MVPs.

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Speaker 2: He did it by beating a team that would have

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Speaker 2: been remembered as the best as the greatest single season

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Speaker 2: team in NFL history, and he did it with a

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Speaker 2: two minute drive, and he did the same thing again

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Speaker 2: four years later. What is the definition of a Hall

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Speaker 2: of Fame quarterback? I must be missing something here. If

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Speaker 2: what he did in those clutch situations by playing the

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Speaker 2: best football of his career, and it wasn't just the

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Speaker 2: Super Bowl, it was in those two four and oh runs,

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Speaker 2: If that's not the definition of an Hall of Fame quarterback,

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Speaker 2: then you know, educate me. What's the guy supposed to do?

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Speaker 1: All right?

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Speaker 3: So, now, Bob, I want to ask you this because,

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Speaker 3: like you, I understand some of the pushback, right, but

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Speaker 3: I don't think the record is the way to go because,

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Speaker 3: to Gary's point, record is not a quarterback stat. There

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Speaker 3: are twenty two players on the field, one guy, right,

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Speaker 3: and what happens around the quarterback matters. But look how

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Speaker 3: much was brought up that never made All Pro Team? Right,

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Speaker 3: just four Pro Bowls, I think, never finished in the

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Speaker 3: top four in an MVP voting.

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Speaker 1: You know, a thing like the individual accolade.

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Speaker 3: Part of this, in addition to the record, was that

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Speaker 3: something that was kind of brought up a lot by

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Speaker 3: people in the room.

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Speaker 4: Yes, and I got to it in my presentation. You know,

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Speaker 4: you have to acknowledge that there are some arguments to

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Speaker 4: be made against that. Okay, what do you do with this?

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Speaker 4: And you know I certainly brought that up, but you

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Speaker 4: know people are going to make their judgments. You know

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Speaker 4: the thing that's a little bit weird. You know, people say, oh,

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Speaker 4: it's quarterback record. Well, you're right, quarterback record is not

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Speaker 4: just the function of the quarterback. It's it's important, but

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Speaker 4: it's not the be all and end all. And I

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Speaker 4: brought up other Hall of Fame quarterbacks were at around

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Speaker 4: or even below five hundred. Joe Namath was below five hundred.

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Speaker 4: Dan Fouts was two games over five hundred. No super

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Speaker 4: Bowl championships, So you know there are examples. You know,

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Speaker 4: Sony Jurgensen I think was five hundred, right, you know,

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Speaker 4: no unquestioned Hall of Famer. So you know, for every argument,

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Speaker 4: there are these, you know, counter arguments, and you know

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Speaker 4: you can do with them what you want. I had

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Speaker 4: even talked to Fouts about, you know, his record, and

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Speaker 4: you know he had mentioned that, Look, I never really

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Speaker 4: liked quarterback record and so it's it's one of those

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Speaker 4: stats that you know, you get in the weeds on.

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Speaker 4: But you know, the more you do research on Eli

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Speaker 4: even as you know he passes the eye test for

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Speaker 4: Gary and I right what you see, you know, I

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Speaker 4: trust my I trust what I see, and Bill Parcels

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Speaker 4: always taught me that I go by what I see

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Speaker 4: and and that's how you have to do it. So

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Speaker 4: we go by what we see. And Gary and I

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Speaker 4: both see a Hall of Fame quarterback. But you know,

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Speaker 4: not everybody else does. And certainly you know that kind

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Speaker 4: of was was obvious in the meeting among enough voters

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Speaker 4: where you know he didn't he didn't advance.

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Speaker 3: And by the way, I would say this too, Gary,

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Speaker 3: real quick, and then you can, you know, go on

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Speaker 3: with whatever we want to go on with. But I

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Speaker 3: think Eli also played during such a great quarterback era

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Speaker 3: that say the same thing, the lack of all pros

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Speaker 3: and I think four Pro Bowls right, Well, yeah, he

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Speaker 3: was playing at the same time as Tom Brady, Peyton Manning,

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Speaker 3: either Aaron Rodgers or Brett fahrf take your pack because

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Speaker 3: one replace the other. Right, So one of those two

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Speaker 3: guys was there starting at the time. Drew Brees was

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Speaker 3: in that era as well, so not to mention Ben

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Speaker 3: Roethlisberger and Philip Rivers, so he was in an arrow

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Speaker 3: where you're gonna have probably a half dozen quarterbacks with

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Speaker 3: real legit, if not more Hall of Fame resumes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and John, that's a great point. And I was

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Speaker 2: about to say that and to add to that, and

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Speaker 2: Bob knows this. It's only I think in the last

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Speaker 2: two years, maybe the last three years, when we've done

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Speaker 2: the MVP voting, that it's been more than just picking

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Speaker 2: the one guy. I think we vote for the top five,

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Speaker 2: Is that right, Bob? In the.

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Speaker 4: I believe so, yeah, it's at.

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Speaker 2: Least top three, it might be top five.

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Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, yeah, you don't get Gary. This year it

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Speaker 3: was top five. I don't know how long it's been

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Speaker 3: that way, but this year was.

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Speaker 2: This year was definitely not the first year of it. Okay,

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Speaker 2: I'm just not clear if if last year was the

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Speaker 2: first year or two years ago. But when Eli played,

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Speaker 2: you voted.

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Speaker 1: For one guy, was it just really one guy?

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Speaker 2: One guy?

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Speaker 4: All Pro is one is one player?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, right now I'm talking about m v P.

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Speaker 1: Oh, okay, for any you're saying both that, I guess,

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Speaker 1: so all Pro and m v P, each pro is.

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Speaker 4: One one position. And then I thought when we voted

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Speaker 4: it was. It was what I did not when I voted.

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Speaker 4: It was not second team. We didn't do a second team.

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Speaker 4: Maybe I don't. I don't know, because we don't do that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. See, I'm still I don't know if you're still voting,

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Speaker 2: but I still have a vote.

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Speaker 4: I'm not still I'm not voting.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So we vote for first and second team All Pro. Now,

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Speaker 2: whether we we've done that all the years, I can't

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Speaker 2: quite remember. But m v P we always just voted

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Speaker 2: for one and now we vote for five. So holding

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Speaker 2: it up against Eli and saying, well, he never got

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Speaker 2: an MVP vote, I mean, and that's just a bunch

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Speaker 2: of bull because, like John, like you just said, look

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Speaker 2: at the quarter just the quarterbacks that he played in

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Speaker 2: the same year with, you know, his brother and Brady,

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Speaker 2: who's the best of all time, and Farv and Breeze

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Speaker 2: and Rogers. I mean to expect, was Eli better than

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Speaker 2: all those guys? No? Was he better than them in

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Speaker 2: any particular year? Maybe not. Was he better than a

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Speaker 2: lot of them in the playoffs? Yeah, I mean he

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Speaker 2: beat Farv and Roargers at Lambeau in the playoffs in

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Speaker 2: different Super Bowl runs. He got the crap kicked out

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Speaker 2: of him in that forty nine er championship game and

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Speaker 2: kept pulling himself out of the dirt and never came out.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I don't get it. And you know one

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Speaker 2: Moon was one game over five hundred, never made it

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Speaker 2: as far as the conference championship game. Dan Fouts, like

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Speaker 2: you mentioned, two games over five hundred made the two

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Speaker 2: conference championship games, lost them. Both Fouts and Moon both

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Speaker 2: first ballot Hall of Fame.

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Speaker 4: And you know, you know there's another two things, another

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Speaker 4: first bout Hall of Famers, Troy Aikman. And you know,

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Speaker 4: in reviewing the stats, this one blew me away. So

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Speaker 4: Aikman is a first bout Hall of Famer. I don't

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Speaker 4: know that anyone questions that. Well, okay, but he did

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Speaker 4: have the triplets, right, he was one of the triplets,

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Speaker 4: and that was he had. He had I think five

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Speaker 4: Hall of Famers on that offense. Larry Allen, you know,

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Speaker 4: remember that great guard. So he had one hundred and

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Speaker 4: sixty five touchdown passes in his career, one sixty five

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Speaker 4: first ballot Hall of Famer Eli Manning three hundred and

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Speaker 4: sixty six more than two or then then the first

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Speaker 4: bound Hall of Famer. Then you can also say, well,

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Speaker 4: you know, well, Eli was never the best quarterback of

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Speaker 4: his era. Well you know who wasn't the best quarterback

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Speaker 4: of his era either, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers.

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Speaker 3: By way, you know what, I was shocked by, Bob

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Speaker 3: if to this today. John Elway never made first team

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Speaker 3: All Pro either, John Elway.

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Speaker 4: Right, Okay, that's good, that's good. But you could say

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Speaker 4: Drew Brees was not the greatest quarterback of his era.

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Speaker 4: All these guys, Aaron Rodgers, Ben Roethlisberger, they were not

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Speaker 4: the best. It was Tom Brady for twenty years.

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Speaker 2: So well, I mean, Bob, the argument was that he

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Speaker 2: was never the best quarterback in a single season in.

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Speaker 4: Care That's that's fair. But he had great seasons, and

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Speaker 4: he compiled great numbers when you consider the body of work,

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Speaker 4: and when you consider that he never had a Hall

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Speaker 4: of Fame player on his offense ever.

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Speaker 2: And and you know, one of the things that gets

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Speaker 2: overlooked also is the best team el I had around

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Speaker 2: him was in two thousand and eight. I think they

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Speaker 2: were ten or eleven and one at the time that

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Speaker 2: Burrow shot himself from the leg, and I really thought

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Speaker 2: the Giants would have by far the best team in

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Speaker 2: the league up to Thanksgiving of two thousand and eight,

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Speaker 2: and I was convinced they were going to repeat. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and then the barst thing happened. Not only did it

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Speaker 2: become a concern among his teammates obviously, but it became

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Speaker 2: a huge distraction. That's all we were writing about. I

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Speaker 2: think over the last month of the season, Eli had

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Speaker 2: one touchdown pass to a wide receiver, so that he

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Speaker 2: tremendously missed bars tremendously on the field. Imagine if he

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Speaker 2: had won back to back, and even if he wasn't

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Speaker 2: a Super Bowl MVP, but then he would have had

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Speaker 2: three championships, assuming he had gone on to win the

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Speaker 2: one and eleven also and two Super Bowl MVPs. I mean,

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Speaker 2: he would have been one of those guys you stand

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Speaker 2: up and you sit down, and you say his name

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Speaker 2: and you sit down. Yeah. And he had the most

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Speaker 2: yard He still has the most yards ever in a

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Speaker 2: playoff season in twenty eleven. He said that, And you

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Speaker 2: know it's been thirteen fourteen years since then, it hasn't

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Speaker 2: been broken again. I go back to like, what do

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Speaker 2: you want? And I really like, I'd really like the

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Speaker 2: one day when I see Dan Marino. Say, Dan, if

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Speaker 2: you had the opportunity to change careers with Eli Manning

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Speaker 2: and not have to read in the second paragraph that

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Speaker 2: you're the best quarterback who you ever won a Super Bowl?

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Speaker 2: Would you do it? Even though your numbers over the

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Speaker 2: course of your career were better than Eli's and people

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Speaker 2: consider you a better player than Eli. But would you

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Speaker 2: switch careers just you can have those two championships and

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Speaker 2: the two Super Bowl MVPs. I'd be really interested to

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Speaker 2: hear what his answer is.

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Speaker 4: Howdle up get in here? If you're lined up here,

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Speaker 4: you gotta go over the middle with at the score great?

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Speaker 2: How do we make that happen?

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Speaker 4: I don't know, but Citizen does. It makes sense of

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Speaker 4: your money with Citizens, Official Bank of Eli Manning.

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Speaker 3: John to The podcast is brought to you by Citizens,

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Speaker 3: the official bank of the Giants. From game day celebrations

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Speaker 3: to your everyday financial needs, Big Blue fans can get

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Speaker 3: at Citizens bank dot com slash Giants.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, And I mentioned la he never was first team

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Speaker 3: All Pro. Roethlisberger and Rivers weren't either. Guess why because

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Speaker 3: they were in the same era as Peyton Manning and

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Speaker 3: Tom Brady, who just dominated those two the rankings throughout

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Speaker 3: the course of their career.

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Speaker 1: So, Bob, I'm gonna go to the next couple of

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Speaker 1: things here.

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Speaker 3: You guys kind of mentioned his Eli's teammates and not

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Speaker 3: another Hall of Famer that played with him, but I

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Speaker 3: think we all know. Look and O seven, he had

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Speaker 3: a great offensive line, even though none of the guys

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Speaker 3: were Hall of Famers. He kind of had receivers that

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Speaker 3: came and went quickly but were really good at the time,

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Speaker 3: like Burst was awesome. But again then the two thousand

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Speaker 3: and eight incident, Victor Cruz and Nicks were really good,

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Speaker 3: but again they faded quickly with injury. Then Beckham was

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Speaker 3: really good, and then he faded quickly. So Eli did

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Speaker 3: have some good stuff going on around him, I think,

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Speaker 3: especially in O seven. But for me, at eleven, that

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Speaker 3: was the year Eli really put the team on his back.

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Speaker 3: You look at all the four I'm sure you talked

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Speaker 3: about his fourth quarter's performance that year and all the

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Speaker 3: comebacks he had and how well he played. And look,

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Speaker 3: let's be honest, that twenty eleven Giants team was not

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Speaker 3: very good. They didn't play very good defense. They didn't

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Speaker 3: run the ball very well. The offensive line at that

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Speaker 3: point was getting old. You had the two receivers who

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Speaker 3: were really good. But to me, if you really want

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Speaker 3: to point to the dominant year Eli had, you know,

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Speaker 3: eleven was so much different than O seven when you

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Speaker 3: know the defense was was dominant, they ran the ball

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Speaker 3: really well. Eleven was Eli's super Bowl. They won that

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Speaker 3: year because of the passing game of what Eli Manning

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Speaker 3: and those wide wide receivers did.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't think there's any question about that. And

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Speaker 4: you had mentioned other other quarterbacks in this comeback. You know,

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Speaker 4: Eli was really a master of the comeback, of the

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Speaker 4: fourth quarter comeback. I think that went away towards the

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Speaker 4: end of his career when you know the team around

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Speaker 4: him wasn't good hit his he declined. But Eli Manning

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Speaker 4: had more fourth quarter comebacks. And I remember doing this

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Speaker 4: during the speech. Okay, he had more fourth quarter comebacks

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Speaker 4: than the following Hall of Fame quarterbacks And took a

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Speaker 4: deep breath. It was twenty guys, l way Montana got

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Speaker 4: like the guys you would expect bounce all of them more,

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Speaker 4: But you know, it just didn't resonate enough.

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Speaker 2: You know, John. One thing that I found really interesting

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Speaker 2: is that the voters wanted to say the Giants won

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Speaker 2: those Super Bowls based on their defense. Now we know

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Speaker 2: in the seven game, the defense played out of its mind.

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Speaker 2: They I mean, as the first one of the few

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Speaker 2: times I've seen Brady like. I won't say he was intimidated,

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Speaker 2: but he was rattled. He was right. I mean, they

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Speaker 2: SPACs came up with a SPACs turned out to be

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Speaker 2: a pretty good coach, but Spats came up with a

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Speaker 2: great game plan to get the pressure up the middle.

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Speaker 2: But listen, the Giants did not have a top five

435
00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:51,640
Speaker 2: defense that year. They were not the eighty six Giants,

436
00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,520
Speaker 2: which was their best defense ever. They weren't the eighty

437
00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:56,800
Speaker 2: five Bears. They weren't the two thousand Ravens, they weren't

438
00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:59,840
Speaker 2: to two thousand and two Bucks. They had a good defense,

439
00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:04,320
Speaker 2: played great in that game. In twenty eleven, like man,

440
00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,960
Speaker 2: they did not have a great defense. But the voters

441
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:10,480
Speaker 2: wanted to say the Giants won both those games because

442
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:13,160
Speaker 2: of their defense. And Eli was basically long for the ride.

443
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:15,600
Speaker 2: But then they wanted to say, well, look over the

444
00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:18,400
Speaker 2: costs of his career. He's only one seventeen and one seventeen.

445
00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:21,920
Speaker 2: You know that's on him and one point I will

446
00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:24,119
Speaker 2: make in the meeting next years. You can't have it

447
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:27,280
Speaker 2: both ways. You can't say they want it because of

448
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:31,119
Speaker 2: the defense, but they had a five hundred record because

449
00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:34,960
Speaker 2: of eli Which is it? You know, if if if

450
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,560
Speaker 2: football is a team game and they won because of

451
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:40,159
Speaker 2: the defense, then football is a team game and they

452
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:43,680
Speaker 2: had a medio mediocre record because of the defense. Also,

453
00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:47,840
Speaker 2: so sorry, yeah, go ahead, go ahead.

454
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:51,240
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, listen, talk about defense. I mean Terry Bradshaw

455
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:53,399
Speaker 4: deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. Oh by

456
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:55,440
Speaker 4: the way, he had the greatest defense of all time

457
00:22:56,280 --> 00:23:00,920
Speaker 4: for ten years. Like, okay, it helps, yes, it does help,

458
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:02,720
Speaker 4: no question, h yeah.

459
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:05,840
Speaker 2: Well but you know, the thing is the reason we

460
00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:08,840
Speaker 2: always attribute a record to the quarterbacks is whatever page

461
00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:12,600
Speaker 2: it is on the NFL Record and Factbook has a

462
00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:17,760
Speaker 2: whole listing of quarterback starting quarterback records. So I do

463
00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:20,399
Speaker 2: think that there is significance place to the record of

464
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:27,720
Speaker 2: coaches and quarterbacks. And you know, whether there's no question

465
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:30,720
Speaker 2: it's the ultimate team game, but I do think the

466
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:33,680
Speaker 2: record gets attached to the quarterback and to the coach,

467
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:35,680
Speaker 2: and whether that's fair to do it to the quarterback.

468
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,080
Speaker 2: It's definitely fair to do it to the coach. Whether

469
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:40,720
Speaker 2: it's fair to do it to the quarterback, you know,

470
00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:42,080
Speaker 2: that's open to interpretation.

471
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:44,159
Speaker 3: All right, So the last thing on this I'll ask you,

472
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:45,359
Speaker 3: and then I want to talk about the process a

473
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:46,920
Speaker 3: little bit, guys, in terms of how this you know,

474
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:51,080
Speaker 3: so fans understand how how it works exactly, Bob, how

475
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:54,840
Speaker 3: much when you went through this is the classic conversation

476
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:59,119
Speaker 3: of dominant for a few years or great over a

477
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 3: long period of time, right, because we've seen guys like

478
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:01,840
Speaker 3: Tarl Davis.

479
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 1: I'll even throw.

480
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 3: Kurt Wanner into the mix, to be honest with you,

481
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:07,199
Speaker 3: because he had a few dominant seasons, but certainly not

482
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:10,879
Speaker 3: the volume of consistency that Eli had. I'm also curious

483
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,520
Speaker 3: how much is not just longevity but his ability to

484
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:14,879
Speaker 3: stay and if you'll not get hurt, came into the

485
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,520
Speaker 3: conversation with your presentation too, But how much did that

486
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:19,639
Speaker 3: get into it where it's like, all right, we prefer

487
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:21,880
Speaker 3: guys that are dominant for a short period of time

488
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:24,200
Speaker 3: rather than guys that kind of have sustained success over

489
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:25,240
Speaker 3: a longer period of time.

490
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:28,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it was brought up a little bit

491
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:31,800
Speaker 4: and you know, he guys it is kind of a

492
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,600
Speaker 4: different case only because you know, his longevity was so

493
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,520
Speaker 4: pronounced and so you know, this guy was an iron man,

494
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:40,880
Speaker 4: never missed a start to injury. Right, certainly, of course

495
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:45,040
Speaker 4: I brought up that point, but he did have and

496
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:47,439
Speaker 4: what I try to do is talk about body of

497
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:50,919
Speaker 4: work and right, he had these moments of greatness, you know,

498
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 4: obviously capped by those two Super Bowl MVP runs, but

499
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 4: he also had sustained excellence. And because when you look

500
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 4: at those numbers, you know three sixty six, which was

501
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:04,640
Speaker 4: for touchdown pass was seventh old time at the time

502
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:08,280
Speaker 4: of his retirement. I think it down to eleventh. It's

503
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:12,000
Speaker 4: a big number. It's a big number when you're when

504
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,320
Speaker 4: you're playing on teams that are not you know, not

505
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:19,400
Speaker 4: built to have great offense necessarily just based on personnel.

506
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:24,760
Speaker 4: So I thought Eli passed the tests, right, and you

507
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:28,400
Speaker 4: have people are gonna get stuck on things about well

508
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:33,480
Speaker 4: just four time Pro Bowl, you know, never all pro,

509
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:38,200
Speaker 4: never MVP, Right, I get it, okay, But the other

510
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,119
Speaker 4: point I tried to make is he played in the

511
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 4: what I think we will look back at as the

512
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 4: Golden Era of quarterbacks. I mean, there were a lot

513
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:48,239
Speaker 4: of good quarterbacks. But if you're in that group and

514
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 4: you're near the bottom of that group, well you're still elite.

515
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:56,400
Speaker 4: You know, you're still in that group. Right. Well, Tom

516
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 4: Brady is at the top of that group, and Patrick

517
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:01,920
Speaker 4: Mahomes might end up being at the top of any group,

518
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 4: but you know, you're still in that elite category of

519
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:10,160
Speaker 4: quarterbacks in a given era.

520
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 2: You know, Johnny, you mentioned Kurt Warner who had just

521
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:17,639
Speaker 2: a huge doughnut in the middle of his career where

522
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 2: he basically did nothing. He got into the Hall of

523
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,720
Speaker 2: Fame because he took Arizona at the end of his

524
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 2: career to a super Bowl, even though he lost, because

525
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 2: that was one of those, you know, downtrodden franchises that

526
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 2: we never thought would make it to a super Bowl,

527
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,159
Speaker 2: and he had an excellent season. But let's let's not forget.

528
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 2: And you know, he's a wonderful story. Obviously, he's a

529
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,480
Speaker 2: great guy. The whole thing with the stock in the

530
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 2: grocery cells and going from that to Super Bowl MVP.

531
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 2: But not only did he get benched in New York

532
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 2: for Eli, which we knew was going to happen. But

533
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 2: prior to that in Saint Louis, he got bench from

534
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,399
Speaker 2: Mark Boulger, and he goes to Arizona and gets bench

535
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:03,240
Speaker 2: for Matt Lioner to goodness sakes, you know. So it's

536
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:05,960
Speaker 2: not like he had a steady path or, like we mentioned,

537
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,640
Speaker 2: sustained success. There was a period there from like two

538
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:14,119
Speaker 2: thousand and three that seven or eight where there was

539
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:18,359
Speaker 2: nothing there. And he got in because you know, he

540
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:22,399
Speaker 2: was that shooting star in nineteen ninety nine. You know,

541
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 2: it was on the wrong end of one of the

542
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 2: great Super Bowl upsets ever, which was Brady's first Super Bowl,

543
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 2: and then there was very little after that. Mike March

544
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:36,399
Speaker 2: was very up and down on Kurt. They let him go.

545
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,399
Speaker 2: He comes here, he knows he's a placeholder til Elia

546
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 2: is ready played. I think they were five and four

547
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 2: when when Tom benched him, and then you know until

548
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 2: two thousand and it was at nine, you know, two

549
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:51,920
Speaker 2: thousand and nine that they made the Super Bowl in Arizona.

550
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 2: You know, he hadn't done anything for five years and

551
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:00,119
Speaker 2: now he didn't get in on the first ballot, and

552
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:04,200
Speaker 2: he got in. And you know, again, whose career would

553
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,640
Speaker 2: you rather have? Eli Manning and Kurt Warners. I would

554
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:10,160
Speaker 2: say that Eli had a better career than Kurt.

555
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, and let me just follow off then, how much

556
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:14,679
Speaker 3: was it brought So I'm sure you brought up Eli's

557
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 3: raw numbers, right, like we're ranks all the time in

558
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:19,879
Speaker 3: touchdowns and yards and all that stuff. How much did

559
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 3: they kind of bounce fight back on you on that?

560
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 3: Just say, well, look, that was the era, right, It

561
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 3: was a passing era that he played in. So all

562
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,200
Speaker 3: the passing numbers in the time that Eli played are

563
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:31,119
Speaker 3: inflated when compared to like Dan Fouts and you know,

564
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 3: Marino and kind of guys that played in the past.

565
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 4: Well, one thing I did in comparing those touchdowns was

566
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 4: quarterbacks in a sixteen game ear now Fouts started, he

567
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,440
Speaker 4: was fourteen game era, so you have to, you know,

568
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:43,960
Speaker 4: you try to have to try to go apples to

569
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 4: apples as much as possible. But even with that, he

570
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 4: still is very representative and very in the mix. Yes,

571
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 4: it's more of a passing league now and it was

572
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 4: starting to get there with Eli, but not not what

573
00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:00,960
Speaker 4: it is now. Right, So those number quarterbacks have passed

574
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 4: him by and that will continue to be the case.

575
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 4: But you know, when Sonny Jurgensen played, quarterbacks passed him by.

576
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 4: You know, so that's just sports, right, and the evolution

577
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 4: of sports, you know. And the one thing John, I

578
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 4: don't know that we got too much into it that

579
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 4: I think is really important. The idea of the first

580
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 4: ballot hall of Fame. I think that was brought up

581
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 4: a lot. Okay, I think that was probably as much

582
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 4: of a deciding factor as anything. And I say that

583
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 4: because when you talk first ballot hall of Fame, you

584
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 4: want to have, you know, make the presentation, say the

585
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 4: guy's name. You might be able to drop the mic,

586
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 4: you know, Peyton Manning, thank you very much, right, Brett Barr,

587
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 4: Tom Brady, Right, But you don't have that with Eli.

588
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 4: You just don't have it, but you have to explain it.

589
00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 4: And I think that that probably hurt him. I think

590
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 4: it helped that he was the only quarterback there potentially

591
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 4: on paper. But the first ballot argument was very, very important.

592
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 2: Yes, I totally agree with you my philosophy on this.

593
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:15,040
Speaker 2: And you know, anybody can vote and have their own

594
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:19,200
Speaker 2: standards any way you want. When we were just voting

595
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:23,959
Speaker 2: down into five, I voted for the five guys who

596
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 2: I thought had the best careers were most worthy. I

597
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 2: didn't care if he was in his first year of

598
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 2: eligibility or his tenth year of eligibility. If he was

599
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 2: one of the five best that year, he got my vote.

600
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 2: But clearly there is a there's you know guys who

601
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 2: make it on the first ballot. It doesn't say it

602
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 2: on your bust and canton, but there is definitely you

603
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 2: know guys who make it on the first ballot. It

604
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 2: can supposed to be considered the elite of the elite.

605
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 2: You know. One thing I wanted to point out that

606
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:57,040
Speaker 2: was a little uncomfortable for me in the meeting was

607
00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 2: I did use Dan Fouts a lot as an example,

608
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 2: and man, he is on our committee Dan Fouts. Well,

609
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 2: I'm gonna ask you, John, because you probably haven't done

610
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 2: the research on this, how many more touchdowns and interceptions

611
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 2: do you think that Dan Fauts threw in his.

612
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 1: Career as you looked at it this morning? So, Dan Faust,

613
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:15,520
Speaker 1: I haven't a front.

614
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 2: Oh no, you're cheated.

615
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 3: I needy, absolutely, But two hundred and fifty four touchdowns

616
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 3: and how many interceptions?

617
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 1: Two hundred and forty two?

618
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 2: Okay? I love watching Dan Fouts play in the air.

619
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:30,320
Speaker 2: Carrott coreel offense, and part of the reasons I love

620
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 2: watching him play is because when the little ball left

621
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 2: its hand, you didn't know if it was gonna be

622
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 2: a touchdown or an interception, and that made it fun.

623
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 2: I mean, it was wide open football. Who didn't love

624
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 2: to watch that? Between then interceptions two games over five

625
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 2: hundred in his career and his first ballot.

626
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 3: I mean, Joe Namath had forty seven more interceptions than

627
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:53,400
Speaker 3: he had touchdowns in his career.

628
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 1: Just Joe.

629
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 2: I love Joe, well loved Joe. Joe Namaths gotten too

630
00:31:57,400 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 2: the Hall of Fame based on one game, and he

631
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 2: deserves because that was a monumental game in NFL history

632
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 2: and Joe didn't even throw a touchdown passing that game.

633
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 4: Matt Snell was the best offensive player for the Jets

634
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 4: that game.

635
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 3: Absolutely, All right, Bob, do you think it's gonna get

636
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 3: easier for you Eli once we kind of get this

637
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 3: you know, first ballot thing out of the way and

638
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 3: he becomes you know, that's not a factive.

639
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 4: Look.

640
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 3: We've seen a baseball too, right, people purposely withhold votes

641
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 3: from guys and they don't because they're not you know, unanimous.

642
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 3: First ballot guys, right, So do you think things will

643
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 3: get my get a little bit easier for Eli and

644
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 3: maybe some of the other guys that didn't make it

645
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 3: once the first ballot thing is off the table.

646
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 4: Not necessarily. I wish, I wish I could say yes,

647
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 4: you know, but don't forget. Now he's got quarterbacks, other

648
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:49,760
Speaker 4: quarterbackacks coming in and that's a big factor. You know,

649
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 4: Drew Brees is coming up next year, You're gonna have

650
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 4: Roethlisberger coming up. You're eventually gonna have Brady coming up,

651
00:32:56,480 --> 00:33:01,480
Speaker 4: you know. So it's gonna be tough. I think it's

652
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 4: gonna be tough. The argument has been made. I think

653
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 4: I think opinions do soften though over time, and I

654
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 4: think that the value of hindsight comes into play. And

655
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 4: you know, like Kurt Warner, I remember Kent Summers would

656
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 4: always present him and it was tough, like you keep

657
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 4: just just pounding away and eventually something happened. So I

658
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 4: you know my sense I get talking from talking to

659
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 4: Hall of Fame voters who may not have gone for Eli, Well, yeah,

660
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 4: I think he's a Hall of Fame quarterback, just just

661
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 4: not now, all right, So you know that's encouraging. How

662
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 4: long that might be.

663
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 3: I just don't know, you know, Gary, the way you

664
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 3: guys are talking, it seems like maybe anger is the

665
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:51,239
Speaker 3: wrong word, and you can explain this however you want

666
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 3: to explain. It seems like the arguments against them seem

667
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 3: to be pretty vociferous, the way you guys are describing it,

668
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:59,239
Speaker 3: like people are pretty passionate about the arguments against them,

669
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:01,880
Speaker 3: almost as passionate as you guys were arguing for him.

670
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 2: I would say that's an accurate portrayal of what happened

671
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:10,200
Speaker 2: during that meeting. I don't know if it went forty

672
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:14,399
Speaker 2: minutes or fifty minutes, but it was contentious. I think

673
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:17,920
Speaker 2: you know, I've been doing this fifteen years, and you know,

674
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:22,279
Speaker 2: other than the too argument with Terrell Owens, this was

675
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:27,080
Speaker 2: the most contentious argument that I've or discussion that I've

676
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:29,400
Speaker 2: been a part of. And the stuff with to wasn't

677
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 2: really debating his football qualifications. It was more should we consider,

678
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 2: you know, what he was like off the field in

679
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:42,480
Speaker 2: the locker room? Is that part of the equation With Eli?

680
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 2: It was strictly football. I mean, everybody likes Eli, so

681
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:50,239
Speaker 2: no one is questioning his character, you know, like Bob said,

682
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 2: we have quarterbacks coming down the pike here now in

683
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 2: the next few years. Now, there's nothing that says we

684
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 2: can't put more than one quarterback in in a particular year.

685
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:02,800
Speaker 2: I mean, that's happened certainly with running backs offensive linemen,

686
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 2: so it can happen with quarterbacks. The problem is that

687
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 2: people are going to make the case that say, next

688
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 2: year that Drew Brees is up here and ELI is

689
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 2: down here, and ELI is going to pay in comparison. Well,

690
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:18,560
Speaker 2: I'm sure Bob and I will push back against that.

691
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 2: I think the Peyton Breeze ear was one of the

692
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:28,280
Speaker 2: great underachieving eras in this generation. They had really good teams,

693
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 2: they kept getting into the playoffs, and they kept losing

694
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:33,399
Speaker 2: big playoff games except for that one year that they

695
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:36,400
Speaker 2: beat the Cult. So do we hold that against them?

696
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 2: You know, the fact that they underachieved in the playoffs

697
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 2: is that part of Drew Brees's resume or we're just

698
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,360
Speaker 2: going to look at his record during the regular season. So,

699
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 2: you know, quarterbacks are a completely different argument than than

700
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 2: any other position, I think, and it's much more emotional argument.

701
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:58,000
Speaker 2: And there haven't been that many that have come up

702
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:00,120
Speaker 2: in the fifteen years that you know, I've been you know,

703
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:05,239
Speaker 2: Farv and Peyton and Kurt Warner, and I'm trying to

704
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 2: remember for anybody else. But we got a bunch that

705
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 2: we gonna be considering now. And if somebody tries to

706
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:14,359
Speaker 2: make the argument, Bob, that Philip Rivers deserves to get

707
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 2: in before Eli, I mean, geez, I might just have

708
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:20,880
Speaker 2: to resign from the committee and let you handle this yourself.

709
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 4: Joe Hargan always said, Joe Hargen is the great historian

710
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 4: from the Hall of Fame, one of the smartest guys

711
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:31,319
Speaker 4: in football that ever lived. And he always I said, Joe,

712
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:35,120
Speaker 4: what do I say when they ask about discussions? Well, Bob,

713
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:38,799
Speaker 4: you just say there was a lot of vigorous discussion

714
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 4: and debate and uh, you know, good, good points were

715
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 4: made on both sides, and you know, and on we go.

716
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:51,440
Speaker 4: So but it was it was intense. It was definitely

717
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:54,239
Speaker 4: definitely intense. And I've been on just about as long

718
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:57,440
Speaker 4: as Gary and I would I'd agree with that. You know.

719
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 4: Besides t o this this one got got a little

720
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:02,800
Speaker 4: little cantankerous.

721
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:04,640
Speaker 1: If you want to know how to manage two minutes

722
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:06,359
Speaker 1: of crunch time football, I'm your man.

723
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:08,719
Speaker 4: But if you're wondering about a long term financial plan,

724
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:10,320
Speaker 4: you should talk to citizens.

725
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:11,839
Speaker 1: Hey, I can also talk long care.

726
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 2: I'd like to learn about a Mollia routine.

727
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:16,719
Speaker 1: Yes, I knew I could help make sense of your

728
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:17,880
Speaker 1: money with citizens.

729
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:21,120
Speaker 2: I almost felt like we were playing tennis and Bob

730
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 2: and Iowa on one side, and it had I don't

731
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 2: want to say how many, and they were just firing

732
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 2: these shots and us and we kept running around the

733
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 2: court trying to lob them back. And you know, we

734
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:34,359
Speaker 2: hear what we thought was a winner, and somebody would

735
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:35,759
Speaker 2: reach out and slam it back.

736
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:39,759
Speaker 4: That's what I said when they came back. Bob, Gary ed, uh,

737
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:44,360
Speaker 4: I'm okay, I'm okay, gotta pull out some more shrapnel

738
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 4: from my back, just okay, all right, I'm ready now.

739
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 3: By the way, Gary, Bob and Joe Horrigan, we're all

740
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:52,480
Speaker 3: members of our Blue Ribon committee selecting the Giants top

741
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:53,920
Speaker 3: one hundred players to just that boy I.

742
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 1: So we always we only talked to the best here,

743
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:56,799
Speaker 1: all right.

744
00:37:56,840 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 3: So Bob, you know, we talked about uh Eli's typically,

745
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:02,759
Speaker 3: but it's also gotten harder for everyone to get into

746
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:04,800
Speaker 3: the Hall of Fame with the way they changed the process.

747
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:07,279
Speaker 3: So let's talk about that a little bit, Bob, and

748
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:09,520
Speaker 3: how that was different this year in terms of the

749
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 3: threshold and how it's gone, and how that's going to

750
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:14,680
Speaker 3: impact you think going forward, and whether or not you

751
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:17,040
Speaker 3: think this was a necessary move to make to make

752
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:18,480
Speaker 3: it a little bit tougher to get into the Hall.

753
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:21,839
Speaker 4: Well, remember a couple of years ago, Dion Sanders said,

754
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 4: you know, what is the Hall of Fame? I mean,

755
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:25,239
Speaker 4: is it the Hall of Fame? Or is it this

756
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:29,319
Speaker 4: group of great players who are worthy of the Hall

757
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:30,960
Speaker 4: of Fame? And then you have, you know, these other

758
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:34,480
Speaker 4: players who are really not worthy. And it was a

759
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 4: pretty polarizing comment, but I think it resonated inside the

760
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:40,480
Speaker 4: Hall of Fame, and I think they have kind of

761
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 4: reacted to it by making this change. So the change

762
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 4: is very you know, for starters, there's a more compressed

763
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:53,239
Speaker 4: list of initial Hall of Fame consideration with players. Right

764
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:57,279
Speaker 4: then we vote down I think to fifty and then

765
00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 4: twenty five or is it twenty five and then fifteen,

766
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:03,759
Speaker 4: and so you eventually vote down to your finalists, right, fifteen,

767
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:07,359
Speaker 4: that's the same, but it's now in the process that

768
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:13,040
Speaker 4: of the voting process. You go from fifteen down to ten, Okay,

769
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:17,719
Speaker 4: then from ten down to seven. Now that's the change, right,

770
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:19,440
Speaker 4: You used to go from fifteen to ten and then

771
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 4: ten to five, and then you vote up or down

772
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:26,239
Speaker 4: on those five. Generally it's five, and you have to

773
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:29,799
Speaker 4: get eighty percent on that final vote in order to

774
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:33,399
Speaker 4: get in. So forty out of fifty, it's forty nine.

775
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:35,279
Speaker 4: There are forty nine members, but you have to get

776
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:38,680
Speaker 4: forty out of forty nine. Well, when you go from

777
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:43,840
Speaker 4: ten to seven, okay, then you go from seven to five.

778
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:48,759
Speaker 4: Then that's it. We don't know anything after that, all right,

779
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 4: Then it's like, who's going to get that eighty percent?

780
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 4: And they told us the chances of a three person

781
00:39:56,520 --> 00:40:00,439
Speaker 4: class are much greater than they are for a five

782
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:03,040
Speaker 4: person class because it's that eighty eighty percent threshold.

783
00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:05,440
Speaker 3: And this, by the way, was basically a three person class, right,

784
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:08,239
Speaker 3: Sterling Sharp was three person class class.

785
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:10,840
Speaker 4: Right, modern era three person class. I think that's the

786
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 4: fewest since five, not mistaken. And then you had Sterling

787
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:19,040
Speaker 4: Sharp coming from the seniors. And now there were two

788
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 4: other senior candidates. There was a coaching candidate, Mike Hogan,

789
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:27,160
Speaker 4: who I thought was clean, was gonna get in. I'm like, whoa,

790
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:30,120
Speaker 4: he didn't get eighty percent? Like, what are we doing?

791
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:30,520
Speaker 4: You know?

792
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was.

793
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 3: I was surprised that Holmeron didn't get to get the

794
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 3: eighty So what.

795
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:37,920
Speaker 4: And that pushes Tom Cofflin back potentially another year.

796
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 1: I will and trust me, we will get to that too.

797
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:40,680
Speaker 4: I know.

798
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:41,440
Speaker 1: Were running out of time.

799
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:44,279
Speaker 3: So so you get your seven guys in the modern day, right,

800
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:46,759
Speaker 3: then you have one from the veterans, one from the

801
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:49,840
Speaker 3: coach and you can split five votes between those nine

802
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:50,759
Speaker 3: or how does that work?

803
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:54,640
Speaker 4: Okay? Right, so let's just stick with modern day candidates. First,

804
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 4: you go from twenty five to fifteen, and then fifteen

805
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 4: is when we discuss at the meeting. Fifteen you vote

806
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:01,759
Speaker 4: down to ten.

807
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:03,920
Speaker 3: How do you get from fifteen to ten? What threshold

808
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:05,440
Speaker 3: you have to make to get from fifteen to ten?

809
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 3: You just it's just it's raw vote, raw vote, okay.

810
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:13,759
Speaker 4: Then ten to seven raw vote, and then seven you know,

811
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 4: then you then you get your finals and we don't

812
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:17,719
Speaker 4: know that. You know, they don't want us to know

813
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:20,160
Speaker 4: because they had to They have an issue with things

814
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:21,359
Speaker 4: getting out ahead of time.

815
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:21,880
Speaker 1: They don't By the.

816
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:24,240
Speaker 3: Way, nothing got out this year, you guys golf clap.

817
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:25,960
Speaker 3: No one knew anything well done.

818
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:28,880
Speaker 4: Look got out a couple hours a couple hours early.

819
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:32,959
Speaker 2: Somebody went on a radio show with eli information about

820
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:34,120
Speaker 2: three hours before.

821
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:35,279
Speaker 4: A week That was unfortunate.

822
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 2: But that's a whole nother topic.

823
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:38,320
Speaker 4: Something.

824
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 1: John.

825
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 4: It's hard to get asked by people you know and

826
00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 4: like for years like hey.

827
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:46,440
Speaker 2: What happened?

828
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, like me.

829
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:52,920
Speaker 4: You had to put off this interview until now, John,

830
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 4: and I appreciate.

831
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:55,240
Speaker 1: You doing that, no problem.

832
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:59,040
Speaker 4: So now with the there's okay, that's the separate modern era.

833
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:03,600
Speaker 4: Now what they did with the coaches, contributors and seniors. Okay,

834
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:06,439
Speaker 4: in the past, we've had three seniors, up to three

835
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:09,680
Speaker 4: seniors that we could vote on and then you basically

836
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:12,600
Speaker 4: go up or down on them. Right, it's a little

837
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:15,719
Speaker 4: easier to get in like that. Not it's not a lock,

838
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 4: but it's a little easier.

839
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:20,120
Speaker 3: It's it's eighty percent. You got to get to eighty

840
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:21,760
Speaker 3: percent for those three.

841
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:27,120
Speaker 4: Correct. Now you have a pool of five, three seniors,

842
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:33,440
Speaker 4: one contributor, one coach. Of that group, you got to

843
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:37,880
Speaker 4: get eighty percent. What do we vote down to three?

844
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 2: Well, I think when a knows five, you can vote

845
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:42,160
Speaker 2: for as many as five.

846
00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:45,799
Speaker 4: You can vote for three. Okay, Now they're all mixed up.

847
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:48,799
Speaker 4: They're mixed in. So home Gren if he gets in,

848
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 4: he could knock out Sharp, or he could knock out

849
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:54,960
Speaker 4: Ralph Hay, a founding member of the you know, the NFL.

850
00:42:55,920 --> 00:43:00,759
Speaker 4: So five for three. It's it's hunger games, man, it

851
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 4: really is. It's like, how do you do this?

852
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:04,520
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean and.

853
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:09,080
Speaker 4: Person came out of that sterling Sharp? Who was who

854
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 4: was introduced by Gary Myers. By the way, Gary Street.

855
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:15,880
Speaker 2: I'm undefeated when I make the main presentation. Uh, Bob,

856
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:18,000
Speaker 2: we might want to consider that next year.

857
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:22,960
Speaker 4: When all yours Gary, Gary's very good at that. And

858
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:25,440
Speaker 4: I do the I do the heavy lifting, like for

859
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 4: straight hand and parcels, and this guy comes in and mops.

860
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:31,680
Speaker 2: They don't get in, and I take over the You

861
00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:35,279
Speaker 2: did straight hand the second year too, You got straight handed, but.

862
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 4: So John did parcels as well. But go ahead, just to.

863
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:40,480
Speaker 2: Really I did parcels the year he got in. You

864
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:41,359
Speaker 2: did it the first year.

865
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:43,840
Speaker 4: Oh is that right? Okay? Well you know I was

866
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:46,640
Speaker 4: in there, see, but who was counting?

867
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:50,680
Speaker 2: Yeah? Not me? So to really simplify this, and Bob

868
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:53,680
Speaker 2: gave a great explanation in the past, when we got

869
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:56,239
Speaker 2: down to the five and you just voted yes or no.

870
00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:59,640
Speaker 2: To me, it was a formality because I felt it

871
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:01,960
Speaker 2: was rule. If you start with a list of one

872
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:03,799
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty and you get the guy down to

873
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:06,160
Speaker 2: five and then you say no, I mean, it's so

874
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:10,040
Speaker 2: hard to get to five. I always yes, yes, yes,

875
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:12,920
Speaker 2: on all five, even if I hadn't voted for them

876
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:15,839
Speaker 2: up until that point. I felt they deserved it. If

877
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:18,959
Speaker 2: the majority says he's one of the five, I vote

878
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 2: for it. What's different now is you got seven fighting

879
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:26,160
Speaker 2: for five spots and they.

880
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:31,040
Speaker 4: Just not I'm sorry, oh as many as five, as many.

881
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:33,560
Speaker 1: Spots, so you don't you don't have to vote three five, right,

882
00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:34,279
Speaker 1: you can vote for you.

883
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:36,520
Speaker 2: Never told us that we didn't have to vote. I voted.

884
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:39,240
Speaker 4: I believe you. I believe you had to vote for five.

885
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:41,160
Speaker 1: Oh, so you had to cast five votes.

886
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:43,760
Speaker 3: Even if you didn't think any of the seven were deserving,

887
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:44,879
Speaker 3: you had to vote for five.

888
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:49,760
Speaker 4: Yes, because you know, in the seniors thing, someone asked,

889
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 4: do you have to vote? You have to vote for three,

890
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:53,080
Speaker 4: and you had.

891
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 2: Yes, You're you're absolutely right, all right, So we have

892
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:59,440
Speaker 2: seven and you're voting for five. They're knocking each other off. Yeah,

893
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 2: because in this year's class, at least, you know, there

894
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:06,960
Speaker 2: wasn't like five guys that stood out among above the

895
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:07,480
Speaker 2: other two.

896
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:08,480
Speaker 4: Right.

897
00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 2: I still thought that we had a very good chance

898
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:14,600
Speaker 2: of getting a class of five. I really did. I

899
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 2: thought Kickley and Vinitari there wasn't a negative word said

900
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:19,960
Speaker 2: about those. Yeah, in the conversation.

901
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:22,200
Speaker 3: That's why I was shocked Keickley didn't get in, To

902
00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:24,080
Speaker 3: be honest with you, I mean, his his resume is

903
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:25,680
Speaker 3: just spectacular, it is.

904
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 2: I mean when you think that Kickley didn't get in,

905
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:30,560
Speaker 2: but we voted Brian Urlacker in on the first ballot,

906
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:32,600
Speaker 2: and I think that Kickley was a better player than

907
00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:36,320
Speaker 2: arl Acker. I'm not sure about the longevity of careers,

908
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:39,560
Speaker 2: but because Kickley had to retire early because of the concussions,

909
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:41,560
Speaker 2: but I thought he was a better player than Erlacker.

910
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:44,239
Speaker 2: So you have seven going for five and the fact

911
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:47,960
Speaker 2: that only three got enough votes. Now, Bob, remember that

912
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:50,719
Speaker 2: they said there's a chance only two would get the

913
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:54,120
Speaker 2: eighty percent. And if that was the case, because it's

914
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:56,719
Speaker 2: a minimum of three, they would pull the guy up

915
00:45:56,880 --> 00:46:00,399
Speaker 2: who had the next highest number of votes. So it's

916
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:03,240
Speaker 2: very possible, very possible that one of the three modern

917
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:06,040
Speaker 2: era guys only had like seventy two percent, but they

918
00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 2: don't tell us that, but it's definitely a possibility. The

919
00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 2: fact that we didn't have four leads me to bulle

920
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:15,960
Speaker 2: and if we had four, then you know, they all

921
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:18,080
Speaker 2: made eighty percent. But the fact we only had three,

922
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 2: they might've had to pull somebody up with the other category.

923
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:26,160
Speaker 2: Like Bob was saying, we could have and if this

924
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:28,399
Speaker 2: was last year, we could have had three seniors, a coach,

925
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:32,319
Speaker 2: and a contributor all get in. But now we had

926
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:37,920
Speaker 2: those five, they would decide this finalist by separate subcommittees.

927
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:40,920
Speaker 2: But after and I'm on the senior committee, after we

928
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:43,080
Speaker 2: got to the three, and then Bob, you're on the

929
00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:45,880
Speaker 2: coach and a contributor. I can't remember a contributor contributor,

930
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:48,200
Speaker 2: so he came up with one, and then the coach

931
00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:50,840
Speaker 2: came up with one. Instead of those guys being voted

932
00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:53,920
Speaker 2: on the individual again, it's five going for three spots.

933
00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:57,200
Speaker 2: And I had a hard time coming up. I mean,

934
00:46:57,239 --> 00:47:00,279
Speaker 2: I don't mind being transparent here. I voted for open

935
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 2: Homegren and I couldn't decide who to give my third

936
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:07,160
Speaker 2: vote to because I wasn't a big believer in any

937
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:09,920
Speaker 2: of the three, but then I voted when not voting

938
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:12,279
Speaker 2: for Ralph Hay because I thought that Clark Judge made

939
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 2: a really strong presentation on Ralph. But I'm not surprised

940
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:22,839
Speaker 2: we didn't wind up with three. I'm shocked we only

941
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 2: wind up with one out of that group because I

942
00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:28,080
Speaker 2: thought that home Grown would get in. And I also

943
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 2: wonder how good is this for the Hall of Fame

944
00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:34,000
Speaker 2: to only have four? We'll kind of reflect I mean,

945
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:36,439
Speaker 2: how is that going to be reflected in the number

946
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:39,000
Speaker 2: of people that show up in Canton the first week

947
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:41,600
Speaker 2: in August? Can you imagine if it was Sharp and

948
00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:46,520
Speaker 2: home Gren, the entire city of Green Bay, all six

949
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:49,600
Speaker 2: of them would have shown up in Canton and they

950
00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:52,359
Speaker 2: would have put the Packers in the Hall of Fame game.

951
00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:57,399
Speaker 2: But Homered not being in now there's like no one

952
00:47:57,520 --> 00:47:59,840
Speaker 2: fan base that really stands out that they could A

953
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:04,080
Speaker 2: flood can't. And I don't think that I think that's

954
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:08,360
Speaker 2: a bad look. If if you know that stadium is

955
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:11,320
Speaker 2: empty for the ceremony, I don't think it'll be empty.

956
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 2: But if it's not as filled as as it would

957
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:17,440
Speaker 2: be under different circumstances. When Kleclo Reaves got in a

958
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:19,640
Speaker 2: couple of years ago, there was a ton of Jet

959
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:20,239
Speaker 2: fans there.

960
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:23,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's gonna be interesting to see how this thing

961
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:28,000
Speaker 4: plays out. I always argued four and Joe Horgan and

962
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:31,560
Speaker 4: I would have this discussion years ago. So Joe, Joe,

963
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:34,120
Speaker 4: we got such a backlog, man, and these guys are

964
00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 4: these guys are worthy. You have five spots, can't you

965
00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:40,239
Speaker 4: go to I'd love to if you go to eight,

966
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:44,160
Speaker 4: he says, Bob. If you go from five to six,

967
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:47,640
Speaker 4: people are gonna want seven. You go to seven, people

968
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:51,759
Speaker 4: are gonna want eight. Okay, I kind of get it.

969
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:58,000
Speaker 4: But now you're going from five down to three. It's

970
00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:01,120
Speaker 4: this makes the job that much tough, for the backlog

971
00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:05,040
Speaker 4: that much longer, and the process that much, you know,

972
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:08,279
Speaker 4: more difficult. It is an elite class. It is an

973
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:12,080
Speaker 4: elite group of players. There are less than three hundred

974
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:14,680
Speaker 4: and fifty players, more like about three seventy five in

975
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:17,560
Speaker 4: terms of players and contributors and coaches. There's less than

976
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:22,600
Speaker 4: three hundred and fifty players period in the Hall of Fame,

977
00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:26,080
Speaker 4: and the sport has been played for more than one

978
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:29,200
Speaker 4: hundred years. That's pretty damn exclusive.

979
00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:33,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's I mean, now you're now you're playing as

980
00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:35,480
Speaker 3: a season ficed it more, you.

981
00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:38,920
Speaker 2: Know, getting back to Dion for a second, you know,

982
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:41,120
Speaker 2: the man who just doesn't have an ego, as we know,

983
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:47,400
Speaker 2: when he said that there should be a room upstairs

984
00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:50,480
Speaker 2: for the elite of the elite, and I'm wondering if

985
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:55,400
Speaker 2: he felt he belonged in that room and then downstairs

986
00:49:55,400 --> 00:50:01,040
Speaker 2: should be everybody else. I mean, how insulting it when you,

987
00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:03,160
Speaker 2: like Bob said, there's only three hundred and fifty guys

988
00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:08,160
Speaker 2: in who played in the Hall of Fame anyhow, and

989
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:10,680
Speaker 2: Dion now says, well, we should break that off and

990
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:14,400
Speaker 2: just you know, take me and Jerry and Joe and

991
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:17,719
Speaker 2: Peyton and you know, just those guys, let's put them

992
00:50:17,719 --> 00:50:20,720
Speaker 2: in the room upstairs because we don't want our bus

993
00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:26,480
Speaker 2: with you know, the riff raft downstairs. Yeah, I like,

994
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:30,520
Speaker 2: I totally agree with Bob that that definitely resonated among

995
00:50:30,560 --> 00:50:32,160
Speaker 2: the board of directors in the Hall of Fame. And

996
00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:34,799
Speaker 2: I think to the detriment of it, because you know,

997
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:37,560
Speaker 2: just judging not you can't really get a good feel

998
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:42,120
Speaker 2: for how everybody is reacting just by looking at Twitter.

999
00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:44,920
Speaker 2: But a lot a lot of the mentions on Twitter

1000
00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:47,960
Speaker 2: are you know, you know, like, what the heck? You

1001
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:52,040
Speaker 2: know why they're only four getting in? You know the stinks?

1002
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:56,000
Speaker 2: You know why they do this? And in this case,

1003
00:50:56,040 --> 00:50:58,040
Speaker 2: I do happen to agree that I thought it was

1004
00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:01,839
Speaker 2: hard enough narrowing it down under the old parameters, and

1005
00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:05,120
Speaker 2: now to make it even more exclusive. I don't know

1006
00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:08,560
Speaker 2: that we're really accomplishing anything here, but obviously not our.

1007
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:11,160
Speaker 3: Decision final question. We went longer than I thought we would.

1008
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:13,520
Speaker 3: But this has been fantastic. This has been awesome information

1009
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:16,080
Speaker 3: for the fans out how this stuff works. It's been great.

1010
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:18,560
Speaker 3: Thank you very much, Bob. What does this mean for

1011
00:51:18,600 --> 00:51:19,200
Speaker 3: Tom Coughlin?

1012
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:21,560
Speaker 1: Gary? What does this mean for Tom Coughlin? Gary? Why

1013
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:22,239
Speaker 1: don't you go first?

1014
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:23,560
Speaker 4: Yeah?

1015
00:51:23,560 --> 00:51:26,240
Speaker 2: I mean I think that I think that Tom definitely belongs.

1016
00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:29,920
Speaker 2: I mean, he not only did a win two championships here,

1017
00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:33,600
Speaker 2: but he got an expansion team to two AFC championships

1018
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:35,560
Speaker 2: in the first one five years of a franchise.

1019
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:37,600
Speaker 3: Coughlin's a no brainer than me. I mean, that's like

1020
00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:39,360
Speaker 3: it's I mean, it's not even a question. It's just

1021
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:40,360
Speaker 3: a matter of when.

1022
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:43,000
Speaker 2: But I got the sense going into this it was

1023
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:46,160
Speaker 2: home Grin and Shanahan and Coughlin. Now I'm not on

1024
00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:48,080
Speaker 2: that committee, so I don't know for sure, but that's

1025
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:50,680
Speaker 2: kind of the sense I got. I don't know what

1026
00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:54,440
Speaker 2: happens next year. Do they bring Homegren back. It's unusual

1027
00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:57,840
Speaker 2: to bring in a subcommittee to bring the same people

1028
00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:02,240
Speaker 2: back two years in a row. So that committee might say, listen,

1029
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:07,440
Speaker 2: we we had. There was a great presentation and conversation

1030
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:09,600
Speaker 2: on home Grin and he still didn't get the votes.

1031
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:13,000
Speaker 2: Do just try and get Shanahan through this time? Or

1032
00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:16,480
Speaker 2: or maybe Coughlin. I don't I don't know, but getting

1033
00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:18,239
Speaker 2: home Grown out of the way would have been to

1034
00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:21,320
Speaker 2: Tom's advantage. The fact that he stole in the pool

1035
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:24,560
Speaker 2: remains to be seen. But it's not good.

1036
00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:31,239
Speaker 4: I'll say this. There's a new rule about coaches and

1037
00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:33,279
Speaker 4: they only have to be out of the game, right,

1038
00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:34,040
Speaker 4: I forgot?

1039
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:36,000
Speaker 1: Okay, but how many years now?

1040
00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:43,600
Speaker 4: One used to be five? Now it's one who's coaching

1041
00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:45,840
Speaker 4: at North Carolina and not in the NFL.

1042
00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:51,040
Speaker 3: Now was that a deal where they might be like,

1043
00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:53,479
Speaker 3: he might come back, so we want to like wait

1044
00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:53,879
Speaker 3: on him.

1045
00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:54,960
Speaker 1: Is that something they might do.

1046
00:52:55,280 --> 00:52:56,800
Speaker 2: That's That's what I'm gonna say.

1047
00:52:57,120 --> 00:52:58,799
Speaker 4: What's gonna happen there? Yeah?

1048
00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:01,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I wish I would have had a

1049
00:53:01,239 --> 00:53:04,120
Speaker 2: say in the committee meeting on that. But if Belichick

1050
00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:08,080
Speaker 2: is our candidate next year, I'm gonna say, you know,

1051
00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:11,040
Speaker 2: we made parcels way and they actually changed the rule

1052
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:14,759
Speaker 2: to five years because of Parcels in between the Jets

1053
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:16,319
Speaker 2: and the Cowboys. They thought he was gonna come back,

1054
00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:18,520
Speaker 2: and they were right. So we changed the rule of

1055
00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:21,839
Speaker 2: five years. Now it's back to one. Do we want

1056
00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:24,839
Speaker 2: a Joe Gibbs situation coming back fifteen years later? Now,

1057
00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:28,279
Speaker 2: obviously Belichick wouldn't come back fifteen years later, But would

1058
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:31,239
Speaker 2: you put money that he'll never coach in the NFL again,

1059
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:35,840
Speaker 2: I wouldn't. I didn't get He jumped too early to

1060
00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:37,919
Speaker 2: North Carolina and would have got a job this year.

1061
00:53:39,160 --> 00:53:42,000
Speaker 4: So so theoretically, now, if you have it's a one

1062
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:45,439
Speaker 4: year waiting period for a coach gonna you're gonna put

1063
00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:49,120
Speaker 4: Belichick up as your one coach. It's just one coach

1064
00:53:49,160 --> 00:53:54,320
Speaker 4: every year, now, right, that's right, that's and he'll get in. Okay,

1065
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:57,280
Speaker 4: So what does it mean for Tom confident? It means

1066
00:53:57,640 --> 00:54:00,520
Speaker 4: more of a delay. I know, Tom, you see him

1067
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:01,920
Speaker 4: on the sidelines. Let's let's go.

1068
00:54:02,120 --> 00:54:05,120
Speaker 1: Let's go with hands on the hips, right.

1069
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:07,759
Speaker 2: You know. You see Belichick in the NFL Honors was

1070
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:10,480
Speaker 2: wearing all his Super Bowl rings. I've never seen anybody

1071
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:12,719
Speaker 2: wear a Super Bowl ring. He was wearing at least

1072
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:13,799
Speaker 2: six of them. I don't know if he had the

1073
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:15,880
Speaker 2: Giants ones on. Maybe he just kind of waving it

1074
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:18,840
Speaker 2: at Arthur Blank sitting there and some of the other owners.

1075
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:21,680
Speaker 4: This is what you missed, you know, there was a

1076
00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:22,279
Speaker 4: little bit of that.

1077
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:25,080
Speaker 1: There's a little of that real quick.

1078
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:28,560
Speaker 3: Just give me like yes or no, quick answer, Bob. Eventually,

1079
00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:30,759
Speaker 3: does both Tom Coffin and lie Many make it into

1080
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:31,279
Speaker 3: the Hall of Fame?

1081
00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:33,440
Speaker 1: I would say yes, Gary.

1082
00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:38,000
Speaker 2: I would say yes as well. But I think for

1083
00:54:38,080 --> 00:54:39,359
Speaker 2: both of them it's going to be a while.

1084
00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:41,600
Speaker 3: Okay, do you think Eli might have to wait for

1085
00:54:41,640 --> 00:54:43,120
Speaker 3: the for the for the Senior Committee.

1086
00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:45,399
Speaker 1: You think he'll get in as a modern day can No?

1087
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:47,480
Speaker 2: No, no, I don't want to. I wouldn't want to

1088
00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:48,959
Speaker 2: put that out him. That's twenty years.

1089
00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:51,600
Speaker 1: Oh no, no, I'm on your side. I was just

1090
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:52,400
Speaker 1: wondering what you guys know.

1091
00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:54,279
Speaker 2: I know what you're saying. No, I think that he

1092
00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:57,080
Speaker 2: I think he'll I think.

1093
00:54:57,680 --> 00:55:00,560
Speaker 4: Gary, if he gets to the seniors, you can you

1094
00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:02,400
Speaker 4: can do the presentation. All right, how's that?

1095
00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:09,719
Speaker 2: Let's see, I'm all right. I don't know at that

1096
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:12,080
Speaker 2: point I'll be drooling.

1097
00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:15,439
Speaker 1: Yet yet you will probably still be writing another book.

1098
00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:21,000
Speaker 4: Gary, now eating Butterscot's pudding at the home.

1099
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:24,080
Speaker 3: Now, I will give both the guys at chance. Gary,

1100
00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:25,520
Speaker 3: what what do you What do you have going on?

1101
00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:27,160
Speaker 3: Any books you want to plug anything like that?

1102
00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:27,600
Speaker 1: What do you got?

1103
00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:30,560
Speaker 2: Yeah? I do have another book, Yeah, in September. It's

1104
00:55:30,560 --> 00:55:35,719
Speaker 2: called Brady Versus Belichick, The Dynasty Debate. And I got

1105
00:55:35,719 --> 00:55:37,560
Speaker 2: about a half a chapter left to right and then

1106
00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:39,200
Speaker 2: I hit the send button and I'm done with it.

1107
00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:41,120
Speaker 2: And I had a lot of fun doing it. I

1108
00:55:41,160 --> 00:55:42,040
Speaker 2: think it's a fun book.

1109
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:44,120
Speaker 1: Awesome. How about how about you, Bobby, anything you want

1110
00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:44,239
Speaker 1: to go?

1111
00:55:44,360 --> 00:55:47,319
Speaker 4: You know the last book I did, right, I'm not

1112
00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:49,960
Speaker 4: in the midst of any book project, but you know,

1113
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:54,360
Speaker 4: this is Black History Month, and I absolutely loved writing

1114
00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:57,600
Speaker 4: a book called The Forgotten First and it's about the

1115
00:55:57,640 --> 00:56:01,920
Speaker 4: first four black players in the modern NFL back in

1116
00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:05,719
Speaker 4: nineteen modern pro football back in nineteen forty six. It

1117
00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:07,440
Speaker 4: was it was amazing.

1118
00:56:07,719 --> 00:56:09,319
Speaker 1: Who are the four players? And so people know.

1119
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:15,200
Speaker 4: Marion Motley, Bill Willis in Cleveland, Kenny Washington and what

1120
00:56:15,360 --> 00:56:18,920
Speaker 4: he strode with the Rams. Fascinating look back at NFL

1121
00:56:19,040 --> 00:56:24,239
Speaker 4: history and it kind of blows your mind about what

1122
00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:27,399
Speaker 4: it was like for black players back in the day.

1123
00:56:27,400 --> 00:56:30,080
Speaker 4: They couldn't play in the NFL for twelve years before

1124
00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:32,920
Speaker 4: those guys broke the color barrier again, and it was

1125
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:34,920
Speaker 4: it was eye opening for sure.

1126
00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:37,480
Speaker 2: I heard your co author did most of the work

1127
00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:38,120
Speaker 2: on that though.

1128
00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:43,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, Keshawn, Keyshawn Johnson was I partnered with Keyshawn Johnson

1129
00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:46,600
Speaker 4: and you're right, you know he can bring it so

1130
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:50,279
Speaker 4: but we he was a great partner. I loved every

1131
00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:54,799
Speaker 4: every step of that process. And you know, like we

1132
00:56:54,840 --> 00:56:57,360
Speaker 4: did a talk in Cleveland at the Whole at the

1133
00:56:57,400 --> 00:56:59,200
Speaker 4: Hall of Fame a couple of years ago when it

1134
00:56:59,239 --> 00:57:01,799
Speaker 4: came out, and the Hall of Fame asked us to

1135
00:57:01,880 --> 00:57:04,840
Speaker 4: talk to the Browns players who had a practice there

1136
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:09,640
Speaker 4: and it was a fascinating moment, one of the greatest,

1137
00:57:09,800 --> 00:57:12,360
Speaker 4: you know, times of my career to be able to

1138
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:16,280
Speaker 4: talk to the players. Okay, who here has heard of

1139
00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:20,120
Speaker 4: Jackie Robinson. They all raised their hand. Jackie Robinson was

1140
00:57:20,160 --> 00:57:23,520
Speaker 4: a teammate of two of these players. Okay, everyone's heard

1141
00:57:23,560 --> 00:57:28,240
Speaker 4: of Jackie Robinson. Okay, who here has heard of Marion Motley?

1142
00:57:28,440 --> 00:57:30,240
Speaker 4: Now he was a Browns Hall of Fame player. Maybe

1143
00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:35,440
Speaker 4: ten ten people coaches and players who heard of Marrion Motley?

1144
00:57:35,560 --> 00:57:40,240
Speaker 4: Who heard of Bill Willis? Maybe two hands? Kenny Washington?

1145
00:57:41,280 --> 00:57:47,600
Speaker 4: No hands? What he strode? No hands? Okay? These and

1146
00:57:48,160 --> 00:57:51,360
Speaker 4: to explain to those those guys in front of them,

1147
00:57:51,640 --> 00:57:54,800
Speaker 4: and to say that the two players that were on

1148
00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:57,560
Speaker 4: your team both Hall of Fame, Bill Willison Marry Motley

1149
00:57:57,960 --> 00:58:01,200
Speaker 4: went to play a game in Miami in nineteen forty six,

1150
00:58:01,240 --> 00:58:03,560
Speaker 4: the first year of the of the of the Paul

1151
00:58:03,560 --> 00:58:06,960
Speaker 4: Browns Cleveland Browns. They went to play a game in Miami.

1152
00:58:07,000 --> 00:58:09,480
Speaker 4: They they adn't go on the trip. Why because they

1153
00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:12,760
Speaker 4: were getting death threats if they played in the game,

1154
00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:21,440
Speaker 4: they'd be killed. So and silence in the room. It's

1155
00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:25,160
Speaker 4: a true story. And it's just to go from that

1156
00:58:25,920 --> 00:58:28,480
Speaker 4: to where we are today when it's you know, seventy

1157
00:58:28,480 --> 00:58:32,440
Speaker 4: percent of the players are African American. It was it

1158
00:58:32,480 --> 00:58:34,760
Speaker 4: was enlightening, guys, Thank you so much.

1159
00:58:35,120 --> 00:58:37,440
Speaker 3: I appreciate it all the time you gave us. I

1160
00:58:37,520 --> 00:58:40,200
Speaker 3: think Giant fans would be a lot of great information

1161
00:58:40,200 --> 00:58:41,920
Speaker 3: to understand exactly how this whole thing went down.

1162
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:43,320
Speaker 1: Thank you so much and we'll talk to you soon.

1163
00:58:44,560 --> 00:58:46,800
Speaker 3: Thanks for having that's the Giants Little podcast, brought you

1164
00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:48,320
Speaker 3: by Citizens, the official Bank of the Giants.

1165
00:58:48,320 --> 00:58:49,920
Speaker 1: We'll see next time. Everybody,