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Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties,

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Speaker 1: the podcast where we talk through some of the big

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Speaker 1: life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they

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Speaker 1: mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, welcome back to the show.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to the podcast. The new listeners or listeners

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Speaker 1: wherever you are in the world, it is so great

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Speaker 1: to have you here. Back for another episode as we

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Speaker 1: break down the psychology of our twenties. A question I

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Speaker 1: get a lot on the podcast is how to date

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Speaker 1: as someone who is anxiously attached, How to date as

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Speaker 1: someone who has a lot of anxiety and kind of

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Speaker 1: worry to do with romantic attachment, to do with intimacy,

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Speaker 1: to do with connection. Think that it is a lot

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Speaker 1: more common in this day and age than we perhaps acknowledge.

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Speaker 1: So I thought today, what a great opportunity to break

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Speaker 1: down what attachment theory is, some of the misconceptions about it,

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Speaker 1: and then focus in on those of us who are

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Speaker 1: dating with an anxious attachment style, what that looks like

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Speaker 1: in a relationship, and how we can kind of move

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Speaker 1: past these tendencies. Of course, we had to bring on

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Speaker 1: a guest, Hyae Gibson, who knows so much more about

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Speaker 1: this than I do. She is incredible. Welcome to the show.

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Speaker 1: I'm so excited. So for those of you who don't know,

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Speaker 1: Tays has this incredible YouTube channel which I'm going to

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Speaker 1: refer to first where and a lot of other things

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Speaker 1: as well. But the YouTube channel was really how I

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Speaker 1: kind of like began to consume your wisdom and your

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Speaker 1: work where you break down a lot to do with

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Speaker 1: attachment theory and dating not just in our twenties but

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Speaker 1: at all ages. But can you give the listeners kind

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Speaker 1: of a little bit of a little bit of a

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Speaker 1: blurb of who you are.

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Speaker 2: Yes. So basically I run a business called the Personal

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Speaker 2: Development School. We put all sorts of content on YouTube.

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Speaker 2: I am like obsessed with attachment style of people. I

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Speaker 2: just love human behavior. I love talking about dating and

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Speaker 2: relationships has been a huge passion of mine. And I

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Speaker 2: actually ran a client based practice for about ten years

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Speaker 2: and just had a very long wait list of like

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Speaker 2: two years or so, and so it was like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: that's not really the best solution, So how do I

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Speaker 2: kind of reach more people in a way that makes sense.

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Speaker 2: So we eventually put a whole bunch of different online

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Speaker 2: courses together have the Personal Development School. I've written a

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Speaker 2: couple books and basically put up free content on YouTube

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Speaker 2: all the time, like almost every day, lots of information,

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Speaker 2: and there's a big focus specifically around dating, attachment theory,

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Speaker 2: the subconscious mind, and like really how to change our

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Speaker 2: attachment style.

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Speaker 1: Because I think attachment style is this thing that maybe

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Speaker 1: you're thinking about it, but it really is kind of

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Speaker 1: in the backdrop of a lot of our decisions and

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Speaker 1: a lot of our actions, particularly when it comes to love,

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Speaker 1: but any kind of relationship. So making people more consciously

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Speaker 1: aware of it is so so valuable because I think

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Speaker 1: attachment theory is one of those phenomena where, once you

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Speaker 1: understand it, so much about your life begins to make

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Speaker 1: sense so much about your life. It's like suddenly crystal clear.

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Speaker 1: Are you able to like briefly break down what attachment

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Speaker 1: theory is for people who might not have an understanding.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, So, first of all, I think what everybody needs

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Speaker 2: to know is that every single person has what we

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Speaker 2: call an attachment style. So attachment theory is basically the

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Speaker 2: work of John Boll. We originally done and he talked

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Speaker 2: about how our relationship in terms of how we learn

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Speaker 2: love and can action. In other words, how we learn

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Speaker 2: to attach to our caregivers in childhood basically become the

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Speaker 2: set of rules that we think for our adult lives

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Speaker 2: in terms of what love is supposed to look like.

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Speaker 2: So we sort of take these rules, these ideas, but

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Speaker 2: how we're supposed to attach to others, what connections supposed

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Speaker 2: to look like, and we essentially start living our adult

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Speaker 2: romantic relationships by those rules. But I found when I

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Speaker 2: first went back into attachment theory there were a couple

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Speaker 2: of things missing. Number one was this idea of, okay, well,

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Speaker 2: what if we don't have a healthy set of rules, right,

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Speaker 2: what if we have an insecure attachment style? There really

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Speaker 2: wasn't much an information on how we can change to

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Speaker 2: become securely attached. And the second thing is, you know,

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Speaker 2: there's not a ton of information about how each of

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Speaker 2: the different attachment styles interact with one another. And that's

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Speaker 2: like really mind blowing, Like when you said a moment

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Speaker 2: ago that if we have, you know, the awareness of

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Speaker 2: what each of the attachment styles are, suddenly everything kind

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Speaker 2: of makes sense. You know, before we understand that every

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Speaker 2: single person has an attachment style, and this is a

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Speaker 2: subconscious set of rules we have for love. Often what

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Speaker 2: we don't realize is happening is it's almost like we're

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Speaker 2: sitting down, and if you can imagine as an analogy,

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Speaker 2: we sit down, we try to play a board game

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Speaker 2: with somebody, but they have a different set of rules

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Speaker 2: for how the game is supposed to be played, Like

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Speaker 2: you have the rules for scrabble. I have the rules

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Speaker 2: for monopoly, like it's gonna be k And so when

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Speaker 2: we finally can realize, oh, we just have different rule

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Speaker 2: books and oh, now I know what your rule book is,

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Speaker 2: I can read it. Oh you know my rule book,

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Speaker 2: we can find a way to work things out and

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Speaker 2: to create something new and something amazing. But without that,

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Speaker 2: we usually personalize everything so much and we take on

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Speaker 2: all this confusion. So because of that, there's four major

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Speaker 2: attachment styles that everybody really needs to know and understand,

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Speaker 2: and every single person has one of these four styles.

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Speaker 2: So the first style is statistically the style that does

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Speaker 2: the best in relationships has the easiest time. They are

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Speaker 2: called the secure attachment style. Securely attached people essentially get

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Speaker 2: a lot of really healthy parenting in childhood, so they

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Speaker 2: get a few key really crucial components number one is

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Speaker 2: they learn that if they cry or express emotion, their

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Speaker 2: parent uses something called approach oriented behavior basically goes towards them,

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Speaker 2: wants to understand what's going on, tries to meet their needs.

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Speaker 2: Number two. Because they try to meet their needs, they

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Speaker 2: feel the child feels safe relying on other people and

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Speaker 2: expressing their feeling and expressing their needs to others, and

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Speaker 2: they learn to trust. Number three and number four. Because

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Speaker 2: of all of this, they feel this deeper sense of

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Speaker 2: self worth, like I'm just loved for who I am.

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Speaker 2: My needs are worthy of being met by others, just because,

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Speaker 2: you know, not because I earned it, not because I'm

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Speaker 2: good enough or did something for it, but just because

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Speaker 2: I exist. And so securely attached children grow up to

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Speaker 2: be adults with a really healthy rule book. They they think, Hey,

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Speaker 2: I can meet other people's needs, I can listen to

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Speaker 2: their emotions, I can express my own, I can express

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Speaker 2: my own needs. Healthy boundaries are okay, I'm worthy of

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Speaker 2: love for who I am. I don't have to earn

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Speaker 2: it all the time. And so securely attached individuals. Statistically,

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Speaker 2: according to the last like Real big survey of research

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Speaker 2: about twenty years ago, was make up about fifty percent

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Speaker 2: of people. Research more recently, in smaller sample sizes seems

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Speaker 2: to show that number is declining quite rapidly, closer to

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Speaker 2: about thirty percent of people are securely attached, and they

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Speaker 2: statistically do the best in relationships. But again that's roughly

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Speaker 2: maybe thirty percent or thirty percent of people overall that

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Speaker 2: are secure attachment styles. So then we have the other three.

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Speaker 2: On one side, there's the anxious preoccupied, the anxiously attached

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Speaker 2: style you can think of it as, and essentially the

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Speaker 2: anxious attachment style. What they do is in their childhood

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Speaker 2: they have a lot of love and care, but a

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Speaker 2: lot of inconsistency around it. So a really common example

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Speaker 2: would be that, like, both parents are very loving, but

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Speaker 2: they work a lot, and so the child has a

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Speaker 2: lot of love, but the parents are constantly coming and going,

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Speaker 2: that maybe the child staying with the grandparents who they're

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Speaker 2: not as close with, and so the child keeps having

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Speaker 2: love that's given and then taken away, love that's given

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Speaker 2: and then taken away. And what's really interesting about that

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Speaker 2: is how the subconscious mind gets programmed is through repetition

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Speaker 2: and emotion. So if you have this repeated experience of

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Speaker 2: love being given and then love being taken. It actually

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Speaker 2: conditions into the subconscious mind of fear of abandonment, and

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Speaker 2: so anxiously attached individuals as adults really fear abandonment, really

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Speaker 2: fear being alone, fear being not good enough or excluded

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Speaker 2: or disliked, and they really try as a cobe mechanism

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Speaker 2: to maintain proximity to the people that they love. They

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Speaker 2: try to hold on really tight, and sometimes that can

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Speaker 2: make them a little bit clinging in relationships. And then

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Speaker 2: on the far other end of the continuum, we have

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Speaker 2: dismissive avoidant attachment style, who's pretty much the opposite. They

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Speaker 2: grow up with some form of childhood emotional neglect, and

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Speaker 2: what that means is that essentially, even if like food

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Speaker 2: is on the table, even if it's not like overt neglect,

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Speaker 2: it's more like under the radar neglect, we'll see that

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Speaker 2: the dismissive avoidance essentially like because children are wired for connection,

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Speaker 2: for atonement, if a child growing up who's yearning for

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Speaker 2: that connection, that presence from their caregivers doesn't have it,

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Speaker 2: they just go, Okay, well, it hurts to be this

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Speaker 2: vulnerable and to feel like my needs won't get me,

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Speaker 2: So I'm going to adapt to this by just denying

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Speaker 2: that I need connection from other people. And so dismissive

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Speaker 2: avoidance push all their feelings down. They actually get conditioned

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Speaker 2: to think because of their feelings not being made space for,

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Speaker 2: they get conditioned to think that feelings are weak, useless,

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Speaker 2: negative in some way, so they deny and reject that

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Speaker 2: part of themselves. They think that part of themselves is

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Speaker 2: almost like defective in a way, and they shove it down.

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Speaker 2: And because of that, as adults, they're terrified of getting

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Speaker 2: too close to people. They're terrified of like opening up,

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Speaker 2: getting too close, feeling like they did as a child,

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Speaker 2: feeling weak and vulnerable with our emotional needs couldn't get met,

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Speaker 2: And so as adults they often like cut relationships out

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Speaker 2: when things get real. They'll tend to be afraid of commitment,

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Speaker 2: or just when things are getting too close, they'll run

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Speaker 2: the other direction. So that's our dismissive avoidance. And then,

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Speaker 2: very last, but not least, this is the least common

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Speaker 2: attachment style, but I think it is statistically more common

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Speaker 2: than people probably realize, is the fearful avoidant. So the

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Speaker 2: fearful avoidant grows up in a household where there's basically

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Speaker 2: extreme conditions. So let's say, for example, that there's tons

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Speaker 2: of fighting in the house, right, so you never know

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Speaker 2: what you're gonna get you come home. Sometimes it's peace,

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Speaker 2: sometimes it's chaos. Sometimes Mom is in a good mood.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes that's in a terrible mood. Sometimes it's flipped or

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Speaker 2: Another really common example for what creates a fearful avoidant

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Speaker 2: attachment style is that we might have a parent, for example,

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Speaker 2: who's an alcoholic. So let's just say like one day

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Speaker 2: Mom is drinking child, the mom comes home, child teeth. Mom,

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Speaker 2: she's in a good mood, she's had a few drinks,

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Speaker 2: she's super loving and in a great mood. Then another

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Speaker 2: day Mom comes home, she's had a way too many

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Speaker 2: drinks and she's an angry drunk. Today. Another day mom's

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Speaker 2: so boring up, she feels guilty, she's being kind. Another

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Speaker 2: day mom's sobering up, she's going through withdrawal, she's in

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Speaker 2: a terrible mood. So fearful avoids grow up in this

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Speaker 2: space where number one, they get conflicting ideas about love,

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Speaker 2: something that sometimes has really nice experiences sometimes has really

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Speaker 2: terrifying experiences. So they want love, but they are afraid

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Speaker 2: of it at the same time. And also they feel

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Speaker 2: like they never know what they're going to get, so

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Speaker 2: they're super hyper vigilant, always walking on eggshells. They kind

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Speaker 2: of struggle to trust in relationships, and they're very hot

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Speaker 2: and cold. It's like, come get close to me, Come

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Speaker 2: get close. You get close, and it's like, no, I

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Speaker 2: change my mind, get away. And so they're very hot

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Speaker 2: and cold, and they actually share attributes of both the

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Speaker 2: anxious and avoidant side, but they go back and forth

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Speaker 2: between those sides on a really, really frequent basis.

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Speaker 1: That is such a good summary. I'm like listening to that,

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Speaker 1: and the point you made about parents who like work

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Speaker 1: a lot is so valuable because I think often we

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Speaker 1: just tend to imagine that it's extreme trauma that creates

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Speaker 1: anything but a secure attachment style, but it really is

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Speaker 1: just any kind of inconsistencies, as you said in the

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Speaker 1: love and the compassion and the support that we're shown.

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Speaker 1: I want to ask you something here that it has

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Speaker 1: been on my mind like a lot. Is it just

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Speaker 1: childhood experiences that create your attachment style or can of

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Speaker 1: equally be molded by early relationship experiences or even free

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Speaker 1: like recent relationship.

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Speaker 2: Experiences amazing question. So we're not born with an attachment style.

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Speaker 2: It forms over time based on the conditions were repeatedly

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Speaker 2: exposed to. So because as children we basically like we're

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Speaker 2: sort of in what we can call a hyper scartestable state,

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Speaker 2: meaning that we are like really sponging up all of

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Speaker 2: our programs in childhood, we're very impressionable. A lot of

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Speaker 2: our programming runs deep, So our childhood attachment style is

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Speaker 2: formed at a very early age and it often sticks

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Speaker 2: with us for quite some time. But anything we are

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Speaker 2: repeatedly exposed to for long enough that causes a big impact. Again,

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Speaker 2: that like repetition and emotion is what program is a

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Speaker 2: subconscious mind, then it can absolutely reprogram our attachment style.

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Speaker 2: So for example, somebody could be secure see their parents

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Speaker 2: go through a really awful divorce at fifteen, and that

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Speaker 2: could make them fearful avoidant or anxious. Or another example

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Speaker 2: is you could be anxiously attached, get into a relationship

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Speaker 2: with a narcissist. At the end of that relationship, you're

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Speaker 2: now a fearful avoidant because there's a lot more substantial

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Speaker 2: chaos and trauma. So our attachment cell can absolutely change,

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Speaker 2: but you can think of the prerequisite as being it's

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Speaker 2: less likely to be one experience that changes it, but

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Speaker 2: more for your attachment style to change, there has to

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Speaker 2: be a lot of repeated exposure to something different.

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Speaker 1: That's really important to note. It's the repetition that really counts.

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Speaker 1: It's not like you've had you've been ghosted one time

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Speaker 1: by someone on a dating app, and suddenly you're like

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Speaker 1: an anxious avoidant, like it's a it's a repeat kind

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Speaker 1: of experience. So I really want to focus on the

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Speaker 1: anxious attachment style here, because, as you said, we have

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Speaker 1: secure that's the most common. Anxious is the second most common,

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Speaker 1: and it's increasing in prevalence in probably a lot in

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Speaker 1: this current generation. I have two questions for you. A

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Speaker 1: why do you think that is? And B what does

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Speaker 1: that What kind of consequences does that have for how

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Speaker 1: we approach dating?

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Speaker 2: Really read question? So I think there's two. There's a

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Speaker 2: couple of reasons, right. I think one of the biggest ones,

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Speaker 2: just quite honestly, is like kind of cultural at this point,

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Speaker 2: and a lot of the Western world at least, but

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Speaker 2: you know, really the vast majority of the world as

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Speaker 2: a whole Unfortunately, there's a lot of pressure, right, so

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Speaker 2: we don't have what we had twenty years ago, thirty

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Speaker 2: years ago, forty years ago, where we had one parent

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Speaker 2: able to stay home. And one of the biggest impactors

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Speaker 2: for what creates somebody's attachment style is the amount of

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Speaker 2: presence they have. And I don't mean like gifts. I

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Speaker 2: mean like the amount of attunement the person, the parent

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Speaker 2: being physically present. And you know, because we have usually

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Speaker 2: both parents working in a household nowadays, a lot of

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Speaker 2: that kind of you know, even if the parents and

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Speaker 2: caregivers are loving, often children have to go to daycare

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Speaker 2: young and you know that's not me saying anything towards parents,

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Speaker 2: like usually because of societal pressures, like literally there's no choice.

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Speaker 2: But you can see how that context is sort of

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Speaker 2: being set. The stage is being set to create more

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Speaker 2: anxiously attached children because they don't have as much connection

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Speaker 2: and care coming from their parents in the same way,

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Speaker 2: because it's literally not possible for the vast majority of people.

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Speaker 2: And I think what happens is because of that, what

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Speaker 2: you'll see is anxiously attached individual. It's like they really

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Speaker 2: one of their biggest challenges that they'll have with dating

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Speaker 2: is that they don't properly vet what they want because

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Speaker 2: they get too busy people pleasing. So when I would

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Speaker 2: have clients who would come to me from different attachment

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Speaker 2: styles back when I was running my practice, I would

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Speaker 2: often have dismissive avoidance. They would sit down and they

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Speaker 2: would be like, too picky, you know, as soon as

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Speaker 2: they saw one flaw, they'd run in the other direction

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Speaker 2: and dating. And then we'd have anxiously attached individuals who

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Speaker 2: are not picky enough. They're not like getting clear on

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Speaker 2: what they're looking for, what they really want in a relationship,

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Speaker 2: what their standards are. So rather than properly vetting somebody

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Speaker 2: when they were dating, they would find somebody who's interested

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Speaker 2: in them as long as I thought that person was

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Speaker 2: moderately attractive and they moderately got along with them. They

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Speaker 2: would then spend that whole first dating stage of the

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Speaker 2: relationship trying to win the person over through people pleasing,

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Speaker 2: through you know, sort of putting on their best behavior

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Speaker 2: all the time, rather than by being like, is this

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Speaker 2: person actually a good fit for me? And rather than

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Speaker 2: expressing their needs and talking about their boundaries and seeing

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Speaker 2: if that someone's a good fit into their lives as well,

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Speaker 2: and there's a huge impact in dating that way, because

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Speaker 2: then we're not picking the right potential partners. And also,

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Speaker 2: people statistically are less attracted to people pleasers than they

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Speaker 2: are to people who have a strong sense of self,

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Speaker 2: and so we may not realize that. I think anxious,

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Speaker 2: preoccupied individuals kind of think that like if I'm people

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Speaker 2: pleasing and I'm more agreeable and I say yes to

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Speaker 2: everything that they oh, then we get along and then

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Speaker 2: everything's easy and then I'll be liked and accepted and

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Speaker 2: I'll win them over. But actually it usually works against

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Speaker 2: them if they don't have this appropriate set of standards

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Speaker 2: for themselves. They say what's okay with them and what's

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Speaker 2: not okay with them, and if they're not backing themselves, statistically,

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Speaker 2: people are actually less attracted to that.

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Speaker 1: Overall, that makes a lot of sense. I think it's

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Speaker 1: it makes sense, but it's also so unfair because if

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Speaker 1: you think about the people who people please like, often

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Speaker 1: it does come from a very deep like childhood abandonment

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Speaker 1: wound or a guilt wound, where yeah, well you feel

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Speaker 1: like I need to make everybody else happy because otherwise

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Speaker 1: I am unsafe and because otherwise I do not get

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Speaker 1: the connection and the attachment that I crave. So when

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Speaker 1: it comes to these kind of like people pleasing tendencies,

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Speaker 1: you firstly mentioned that sometimes it results in us choosing

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Speaker 1: partners who might actually in the long term not be

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Speaker 1: right for us, might not actually be a good match.

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Speaker 1: What does it then look like when we get into

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Speaker 1: the relationship past the first you know, honeymoon period where

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Speaker 1: everyone's on their best behavior, everyone's trying to win the

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Speaker 1: other person over. When you get deeper into the relationship,

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Speaker 1: assuming this person is actually right for you, what kind

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Speaker 1: of starts to show up in our behavior?

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Speaker 2: Amazing questions. These are fantastic questions. So before I dive

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Speaker 2: into that was just for a moment, I want to

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Speaker 2: say one other thing, because you've said something really powerful,

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Speaker 2: which is that when you know it's sort of unfair,

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Speaker 2: because when somebody is like trying to people please, it's

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Speaker 2: coming from this deep childhood trauma. Is actually what it

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Speaker 2: is like, this abandonment wound of feeling afraid of being

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Speaker 2: out on their own and then being unsafe or being

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Speaker 2: disliked or rejected, And when anxious individuals are actually feeling

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Speaker 2: anxiously attached, like when that anxious attachment and they're needing

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Speaker 2: to call or text or maintain proximity when they're feeling

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Speaker 2: like that. I think something that's understated is that that's

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Speaker 2: actually a trauma response for somebody that's actually them when

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Speaker 2: you feel that panic in your body and your conscious

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Speaker 2: mind knows better like don't call them again, or give

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Speaker 2: them space, or or you have to put your phone

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Speaker 2: in the other room and shut it off, or you

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Speaker 2: know these kinds of things, and yet you can't help

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Speaker 2: it and eventually do make that phone call again or

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Speaker 2: eventually do reach back out. That's actually trauma response, And

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Speaker 2: so there is something disheartening about that. And at the

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Speaker 2: same time, I think it's really important to look at

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Speaker 2: the sort of silver lining of it too, which is

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Speaker 2: that exactly what you need to do to be successful

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Speaker 2: in dating is also exactly what you need to do

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Speaker 2: to heal yourself and to feel better actually heal from

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Speaker 2: those childhood wounds. So with the acknowledgment of that stuff,

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Speaker 2: and I'm sure we can get into all that stuff

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Speaker 2: in a little bit like what that looks like, but

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Speaker 2: just with the acknowledgment of, like, this really sucks that

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Speaker 2: I have these wounds and they're painful at the same time,

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Speaker 2: noticing them and acknowledging them and being able to work

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Speaker 2: through them in your dating life will also help you

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Speaker 2: feel so much more secure and confident and at peace

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Speaker 2: within yourself. So it's very healing. So there's it's like

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Speaker 2: a crisis and an opportunity, if that makes sense. So

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Speaker 2: so going back to what you were talking about, basically,

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Speaker 2: an anxious attachment style and a relationship has a few

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Speaker 2: core things, so they will tend to in that dating

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Speaker 2: stage specifically start you know, people pleasing, trying to win

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Speaker 2: the person over, and if anybody who's listening is not familiar,

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Speaker 2: we actually have six stages of a relationship, so we

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Speaker 2: start off with a dating stage, which is actually meant

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Speaker 2: to be the vetting stage. Then we go into the

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Speaker 2: honeymoon stage of a relationship and that's that like honeymoon period,

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Speaker 2: but the mask is usually still on during that period.

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Speaker 2: After that, when people start getting more comfortable, they start

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Speaker 2: dropping the mask and that becomes the power struggle stage.

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Speaker 2: Every relationship has one, and the more you are people

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Speaker 2: pleasing and not being yourself in the dating and honeymoon stage,

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Speaker 2: the harder the power struggle stage will be and then

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Speaker 2: after the power struggle stage, if we make it through

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Speaker 2: the rights of passage, which are really about being vulnerable

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Speaker 2: and learning to show ourselves and share ourselves with our partners,

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Speaker 2: then we get into the stability stage. Then that's followed

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Speaker 2: by the commitment stage, where we start talking about really

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Speaker 2: long term commitments marriage, children, living together, et cetera. And

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Speaker 2: then we get to the bliss stage, which is like

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Speaker 2: the honeymoon stage, but where you actually deeply know each other.

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Speaker 2: So what happens for a lot of anxious attachments to

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Speaker 2: your earlier point is that we can get into a

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Speaker 2: place where it's like you're so busy trying to win

406
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Speaker 2: the person over and be on your best behavior that

407
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Speaker 2: you don't ever share who you really are, what your

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Speaker 2: real needs are in a relationship. And if you do

409
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Speaker 2: share them, you share them retroactively. So rather than saying like, hey,

410
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Speaker 2: I could use some support, can you do the dishes,

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Speaker 2: it's like, hey, I hold that in I don't ever

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Speaker 2: ask for the support, And then finally one day I'm like,

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Speaker 2: you never do the dishes, And then you know it's

414
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Speaker 2: that doesn't land with somebody that we care about because

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Speaker 2: they just feel criticized because anxiously attach people even though

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Speaker 2: we think that they're so emotionally available. People pleasing is

417
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Speaker 2: not an emotionally available thing. People pleasing is I'm hiding right,

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Speaker 2: I'm not truly being myself. I'm not sharing myself with

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Speaker 2: you out of a fear of rejection. And so that's

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Speaker 2: gonna cost me something in the power struggle stage. And

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Speaker 2: so what ends up taking place is is an anxious

422
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Speaker 2: attachment style. They usually, you know, sort of date, so

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Speaker 2: they they're so good at trying to win people over

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Speaker 2: in the dating and honeymoon stage, and then when the

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Speaker 2: power struggle comes on, they really see a lot of

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Speaker 2: turbulence in their relationships at that point. And what they'll

427
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Speaker 2: start to see is that they feel really unseen by

428
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Speaker 2: their partners, unheard, like their needs don't matter. Sometimes they

429
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Speaker 2: can feel resentful because they're usually like pouring into the

430
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Speaker 2: relationship with somebody and then feeling like they're not getting

431
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Speaker 2: their needs met back. Then that can cause them to

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Speaker 2: be slightly critical in their communication, which then often causes

433
00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:00,200
Speaker 2: the other person to just shut down and meet their

434
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:03,240
Speaker 2: needs even less than they already are. And then we'll

435
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:06,439
Speaker 2: often see anxious, preoccupied attachment styles have a lot of

436
00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:08,480
Speaker 2: fears come up when they see their partner pull back

437
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:11,520
Speaker 2: and then try to sort of maintain that proximity, try

438
00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:13,800
Speaker 2: to get closer, and often we can get stuck in

439
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:15,639
Speaker 2: these cycles where we keep trying to get closer, the

440
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:17,440
Speaker 2: person poles away, keep trying to get closer, the person

441
00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:19,680
Speaker 2: poles away, and it can be really painful for the

442
00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:24,320
Speaker 2: anxiously attached style, especially in the power struggle stage of relationships.

443
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:27,480
Speaker 1: So in the power struggle stage, what are we like

444
00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:30,080
Speaker 1: most likely to see because I've not heard about this before.

445
00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:33,760
Speaker 1: I knew about obviously the honeymoon stage in the bliss stage,

446
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:37,000
Speaker 1: but I never I've never heard about this power struggle moment.

447
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:40,960
Speaker 2: So the power struggle stage statistically is the stage where

448
00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:45,199
Speaker 2: most people break up in relationships, and it is one

449
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:48,160
Speaker 2: of the most challenging stages. But again I really find

450
00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:51,200
Speaker 2: it to be it's like the same thing, right, It's

451
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:53,879
Speaker 2: like a crisis in an opportunity. It's really hard, and

452
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:57,360
Speaker 2: it also presents the most opportunity for building really deep

453
00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:00,960
Speaker 2: roots in a relationship. So in the power struggle, one

454
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:02,760
Speaker 2: of the rights of passage to make it out of

455
00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 2: the power struggle is being vulnerable with our partners, really

456
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:09,359
Speaker 2: letting somebody see us, like what our real fears are,

457
00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:12,919
Speaker 2: what our concerns are for anxious preoccupies. That involves things like,

458
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:15,760
Speaker 2: you know, sharing that sometimes they need reassurance or sometimes

459
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:17,679
Speaker 2: they need certainty, you know, letting their partner know if

460
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:20,960
Speaker 2: you cancel plans, I'm okay with the plans canceled sometimes,

461
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:22,880
Speaker 2: but try to rebook them or tell me when we're

462
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:25,320
Speaker 2: going to meet next, or you know, so them asking

463
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:27,320
Speaker 2: for Hey, I can be flexible, but I still need

464
00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:28,720
Speaker 2: you to see that these are my needs and these

465
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:30,679
Speaker 2: are the things that are important to me. So it

466
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,720
Speaker 2: really requires a lot of expression vulnerably about their needs,

467
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:39,600
Speaker 2: about their fears. And what that opportunity becomes is when

468
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:41,960
Speaker 2: I lower my mask and I start sharing who I

469
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,720
Speaker 2: am with you without conditions, I now present the opportunity

470
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:48,840
Speaker 2: to be loved in a more unconditional way. Because when

471
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,400
Speaker 2: I'm only sharing who I am with conditions, you can

472
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:53,879
Speaker 2: only love me conditionally. That's all I make space for.

473
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:56,280
Speaker 2: And so what's going to end up happening is I'm

474
00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:58,560
Speaker 2: going to constantly, if I was anxiously attached, feel this

475
00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:01,480
Speaker 2: sense of like you don't see me you don't hear me,

476
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 2: you don't really care about me, and it'll feel defeating

477
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:07,120
Speaker 2: and saddening. But if instead we can drop the mask,

478
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,119
Speaker 2: we can share in a healthy way, be more vulnerable,

479
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 2: gain that acceptance from our partner, and also have our

480
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 2: partner do the same thing. That's where we now build

481
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 2: real roots in a relationship where we can really deep

482
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:21,960
Speaker 2: in love and what it means to be loved, and

483
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:24,360
Speaker 2: that sets us up for success in the future stages.

484
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:26,920
Speaker 2: So it's tricky, and we'll generally see the most fighting

485
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,480
Speaker 2: in the power struggle stage, the most bickering arguments, push

486
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,480
Speaker 2: pull kind of behaviors, but if we can do it properly,

487
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:35,360
Speaker 2: we also see tremendous success coming out on the other side.

488
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 1: It's so fascinating to hear you say that, because I

489
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 1: think I'm applying that to my own relationship. And we

490
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,679
Speaker 1: were speaking about this before we started recording, about how

491
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:45,640
Speaker 1: I think he used to be someone who is very

492
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:49,639
Speaker 1: anxiously attached, and then I met someone who really challenged

493
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:53,200
Speaker 1: me and in the best ways possible, and like challenged

494
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:57,679
Speaker 1: me with healthy love such that the little tendencies that

495
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:01,440
Speaker 1: I'd built up, the defensive mechanisms like they just didn't

496
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:06,399
Speaker 1: work anymore. I used to always have this sense of

497
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 1: like it was almost like a game, right. I was like,

498
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 1: I don't want you to leave me. Oh, I don't

499
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,440
Speaker 1: want you to not reply to my messages, so I'm

500
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:17,239
Speaker 1: not going to reply to yours. And he was like, no,

501
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:20,479
Speaker 1: we're not playing those games anymore. Why are you feeling

502
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 1: so anxious about this? Like, let's have a discussion. And

503
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:27,480
Speaker 1: it was so hard, Like it was actually really difficult

504
00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:31,879
Speaker 1: in that stage to force myself to be vulnerable and

505
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:34,440
Speaker 1: to be like, I'm experiencing a lot of anxiety right

506
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,719
Speaker 1: now that you're going to walk away, that you're going

507
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,359
Speaker 1: to leave me. That small thing where you didn't hug

508
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:43,119
Speaker 1: me when you first walked through the door, that was

509
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:45,639
Speaker 1: really it was a really huge alarm bell for me.

510
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 1: And it was so like they said, difficult, But I

511
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:56,919
Speaker 1: always think that vulnerability is met with huge emotional personal

512
00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 1: social relationship reward, because you showing up as yourself and

513
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 1: you're being like, I'm going to do the hard thing here.

514
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:10,320
Speaker 1: I'm going to be incredibly open with this person, knowing

515
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 1: that they could say the wrong thing, but taking that

516
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 1: risk anyways. And I do always think that you come

517
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,680
Speaker 1: out the other side with a lot a better understanding

518
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:19,919
Speaker 1: at least of who that person is.

519
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:24,200
Speaker 2: And you know it's real, Like the fear is real

520
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:26,679
Speaker 2: when you have those conversations, like I can remember the

521
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:28,679
Speaker 2: first time I was a fearful avoidant attachment, so that

522
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:32,200
Speaker 2: I can remember the first time I shared about having

523
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 2: a fear in a relationship about But it was with

524
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 2: my now husband, but at the time we were going

525
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:40,040
Speaker 2: through like sort of our own power struggle and I

526
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 2: had to open up and share that I had this

527
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,120
Speaker 2: fear of something sort of similar. Mine was like more

528
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:48,359
Speaker 2: about like betrayal, and and it was funny because it

529
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 2: was not really based on anything at the time except

530
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:55,560
Speaker 2: my own stories about something. But I remember being so terrified, thinking,

531
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:57,159
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, I can't believe I'm sharing this with

532
00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:00,640
Speaker 2: somebody in scared of feeling weak or rejected or too vulnerable.

533
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:03,160
Speaker 2: But it's like the change when we learn to do

534
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:06,640
Speaker 2: that work is so beautiful, because you know, if we're

535
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:09,440
Speaker 2: in a relationship where someone with somebody we vetted a

536
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,960
Speaker 2: little bit and who's a good fit, people respond way

537
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 2: more than I think we imagine. Because as a child,

538
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 2: if you couldn't get your needs met. That's all your programming.

539
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:20,200
Speaker 2: You're like, oh, well, then my needs will not be met.

540
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 2: So I have to keep people pleasing or I have

541
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 2: to keep holding back and not saying anything. And so

542
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,360
Speaker 2: we assume that onto our partners. We tend to project

543
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:30,480
Speaker 2: that onto our present if that was our experience as children,

544
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,879
Speaker 2: But as an adult, it's actually very different, right. We

545
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 2: can communicate differently, We can share things more, we have

546
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:38,680
Speaker 2: emotional literacy, we can talk things out in a different

547
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 2: way that we didn't have access to as a child.

548
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 2: So we get to heal all of these different underlying programs.

549
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:48,360
Speaker 2: And when we communicate our needs, we actually give ourselves

550
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:50,440
Speaker 2: the opportunity to have people show up for us and

551
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 2: I can share from my experience. I'm curious about yours.

552
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 2: But for me, one of the most beautiful things I

553
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 2: learned is that when I actually shared about my needs

554
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 2: and I actually took the courage and and the risk

555
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:04,920
Speaker 2: of being vulnerable, I actually felt so much more loved

556
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:06,880
Speaker 2: by all the people in my life because they really

557
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:09,119
Speaker 2: did shop and they weren't perfect, and if they weren't perfect,

558
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:10,959
Speaker 2: they could go back and have a conversation again. But

559
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:13,399
Speaker 2: like I couldn't believe how much I actually felt like

560
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 2: I could receive love from other people when I did that,

561
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:17,920
Speaker 2: And I'm curious to hear if you felt that as.

562
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 1: Well, one hundred percent, and not just in terms of

563
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 1: my partner, Like I remember having like this conversation with

564
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:27,879
Speaker 1: him where I was like, these are my fears and

565
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:29,920
Speaker 1: then looking at him afterwards and being like, oh, right,

566
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 1: so like this is what the next stage about love

567
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 1: looks like, and being like, I am so in love

568
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 1: with you right now because you met me here. And

569
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 1: it was also something that I started doing with my friends,

570
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 1: so I had a lot of anxiety around friendships fizzling out,

571
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 1: this preoccupation with this idea that my friends really didn't

572
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:53,000
Speaker 1: like me, they didn't want to be around me, like

573
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 1: and or. I would just experience a lot of loneliness,

574
00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 1: even when it was unjustified. And I remember there was

575
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 1: like this light bulb moment. And it may seem so

576
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 1: common sense to people listening to this, you're already applying

577
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 1: these tactics, but I just like messaged my friend and

578
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 1: was like, I am just feeling really low right now.

579
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 1: And it's not that I'm feeling like everything in my

580
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 1: life is great, but I just really need connection from you,

581
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 1: and I just really need you to call me and

582
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 1: just like give me a bit of reassurance. And she

583
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 1: did it, and she was like, Yeah, let's do something

584
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:29,920
Speaker 1: this weekend, let's go to the beach. And it was

585
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 1: this weird thing where you're exactly right. As a child,

586
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 1: you don't know how to ask for that. You can't

587
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 1: be like, hey, mom, can you stop working late? Because

588
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,480
Speaker 1: I've identified that I'm on the way to beginning like

589
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 1: anxiously attached, like you're sometimes non verbal, like that's not

590
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 1: a way that you can operate. But then as you

591
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 1: become an adult, it's like, wow, it's so crazy to

592
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 1: realize that, especially as someone who maybe was anxious or

593
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 1: any of those number of insecure attachment styles, just speaking

594
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 1: your needs a lot of the time means that they

595
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 1: will be met.

596
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 2: It's so beautiful. And I just love like talking about

597
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 2: things like this because it's so powerful, Like, you know,

598
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 2: having also witnessed that firsthand with so many like friendships,

599
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 2: family relationships, like how much we actually allow ourselves to

600
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 2: be loved by people we care about so much when

601
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 2: we do those things and it's like such a rewarding

602
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 2: experience and for people who like maybe think of this, like,

603
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 2: what if the person doesn't show up, Well, that might happen,

604
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 2: But then those people aren't really meant to be in

605
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 2: your inner circle anyways. You know, those people aren't meant

606
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 2: to withstand the test of time in your life. And

607
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 2: it's worth building relationships with people that are. It's worth

608
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 2: going through figuring those things out so that you can

609
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 2: have people around you who really do show up for you,

610
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 2: who really do care about you. And I think as

611
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 2: an anxious attachments out, it's good to also practice showing

612
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 2: up for ourselves, Like you know, there's that part as

613
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 2: well of self soothing. But I cannot stress enough how

614
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 2: beautiful it is to practice that vulnerability piece.

615
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 1: Absolutely, we're going to take a quick break and when

616
00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 1: we come back, we're going to discuss the interactions between

617
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 1: the anxious attachment style and the avoidant attachment style. We

618
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:14,200
Speaker 1: will be back with you very shortly. Something that I

619
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 1: have learnt recently is that the anxious attachment style is

620
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 1: often attracted to the avoidant attachment style, whether that is

621
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 1: fearful or dismissive. Why is that? Because that feels so counterintuitive.

622
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 1: Surely the anxiously attached person would be most attracted to

623
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 1: someone who was secure, but you were telling me that

624
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 1: is not often the case.

625
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's an amazing question. So here's what happens. So

626
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 2: when we think of our attachment style, I want us

627
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 2: to first think of the difference between like conscious and subconscious.

628
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 2: So conscious mind, I'm sure everybody's had this experience in

629
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 2: some way where they're like their mind knows better. They're

630
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 2: going I know this is not the right fit for me,

631
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 2: or I know I should leave this relationship that's not working,

632
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 2: or I know that this person's like not the guy

633
00:31:58,080 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 2: I should be dating, or not the woman that I

634
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 2: should be, you know, and yet we repeat patterns. Well,

635
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:06,080
Speaker 2: that's the difference between our conscious and subconscious. Conscious minds

636
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:09,960
Speaker 2: can logically analyze and see things, but our subconscious is

637
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:12,720
Speaker 2: the one running the show. The subconscious is actually responsible

638
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 2: for ninety five to ninety seven percent of our beliefs,

639
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 2: our thoughts, our decisions, our emotions, our actions. So what

640
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 2: happens is when we think of our attachment style, I

641
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 2: like to get everybody in the habit of thinking of

642
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 2: it as like the subconscious set of rules that you

643
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 2: have about love. And when we look at tackling the subconscious.

644
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 2: One thing that's really valuable to realize is that our

645
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 2: subconscious mind's biggest priority is survival. So what this means

646
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 2: is that anything that feels familiar feels safe and thus

647
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 2: increases the chances that we're going to survive, and that's

648
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 2: what the subconscious is seeking the most. So what's funny

649
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 2: is that what our subconscious comfort zone is, that sort

650
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 2: of zone that our subconscious keeps wanting to keep us

651
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 2: in and stay in, is actually that as an anxiously

652
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 2: attached person, the relationship you have to yourself is to

653
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 2: constantly dismiss and avoid your own feelings, needs and desires

654
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:09,240
Speaker 2: in favor of pleasing other people, which means your subconscious

655
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 2: comfort zone, the zone that you're used to operating in

656
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 2: all day long, is to put your needs last, feelings last,

657
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 2: not really care about your own boundaries, not worry too

658
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 2: much about you being a priority, and so that's that

659
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 2: zone of familiarity and safety to your subconscious mind. So

660
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 2: when we're starting to invest in people or we're dating people,

661
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:31,760
Speaker 2: guess what one of the biggest factors is that drives attraction.

662
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 2: If somebody represents the subconscious comfort zone and the relationship

663
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 2: we have to ourselves, which means that often anxiously attach

664
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 2: people even though they might see somebody be dismissive not

665
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 2: make an effort pull away. The anxious attachment style often

666
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 2: goes that doesn't feel good or that's not healthy, and

667
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 2: yet their subconscious is like, and we love them. We

668
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 2: really are so interested, you know, they're on our mind

669
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 2: twenty four to seven. And so it's because that subconscious

670
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 2: comfort is a big factor that drives attraction. So that's

671
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 2: really why the sense of happening. And obviously both the

672
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 2: fearful avoidant attachment style and dismissive avoidant they both tend

673
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 2: to sort of push people away and kind of be

674
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:14,719
Speaker 2: a little bit dismissive or avoidant, which really feels familiar

675
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:16,839
Speaker 2: and like we have the butterflies that go off, which

676
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 2: may actually be more like red flags that are being waved,

677
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:22,959
Speaker 2: but the subconscious mind doesn't know any better.

678
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 1: Well, it's that age old sense. And I say this

679
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 1: all the time. Sometimes our brains our bodies confuse anxiety

680
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 1: with excitement and with the spark and with passion, when

681
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:41,240
Speaker 1: that is sometimes not true and just your brain trying

682
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 1: to interpret a situation is more positive and is more beneficial.

683
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 1: So this, this is really fascinating to me because obviously,

684
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:54,840
Speaker 1: what a dismissive and avoidant, fearful avoidant, and an anxiously

685
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 1: attached person wants out of a relationship is different because

686
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:02,560
Speaker 1: what they yet, because what they're looking for in relationship

687
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:04,720
Speaker 1: is different. What they want from the relationship is different.

688
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:09,239
Speaker 1: Why is that so destructive for the anxiously attached in particular?

689
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, because exactly what they have is their subconscious comfort

690
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:16,279
Speaker 2: zone in relationship to self, which is causing them so

691
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:18,239
Speaker 2: much pain, is exactly what they end up attracting in

692
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:20,840
Speaker 2: relationships or being attracted to in other So one of

693
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:24,720
Speaker 2: the biggest things is that as anxious preoccupies, if anybody

694
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 2: who is ap could sort of take a look, they

695
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:31,720
Speaker 2: would see that as an anxious person, anxious preoccupied person.

696
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:34,760
Speaker 2: The things that they do to themselves that hurt themselves

697
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 2: the most is that they don't speak up for their needs.

698
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 2: They put themselves on the back burner. They pretend like

699
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 2: things are okay with them when they're not. You know,

700
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 2: I think of like somebody's sitting there and somebody's hurting

701
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:47,919
Speaker 2: them and they're like, it's fine, it's not a big deal.

702
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 2: Because they're always prioritizing other people and getting that approval

703
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 2: and that connection, but it's always at the expense of

704
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 2: self abandonment, right, So part of what happens is how

705
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 2: we keep our subconscious wounds alive from childhood because we

706
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,240
Speaker 2: have to ask ourselves the question, like, if our wounds happened.

707
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:05,239
Speaker 2: Let's say somebody's in their twenties listening to this on

708
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 2: your podcast, and this happened their abandonment wounds started when

709
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:11,680
Speaker 2: they were five, how are they still here? The past is,

710
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:14,759
Speaker 2: you know, fifteen years gone, twenty years gone. Well, what's

711
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 2: actually happening is that we actually can't keep wounds alive

712
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:22,480
Speaker 2: unless we're constantly opening the wound and you know, sort

713
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 2: of peeling off the scab on a regular basis. So

714
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 2: the wounds stay alive for an anxious, preoccupied person because

715
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:31,960
Speaker 2: they keep abandoning themselves first. And so as long as

716
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:35,800
Speaker 2: that cycle of self abandonment, putting themselves last, not sharing

717
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:38,080
Speaker 2: their boundaries, not speaking up for their needs, as long

718
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:40,480
Speaker 2: as they keep that alive in the relationship to themselves,

719
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:43,239
Speaker 2: that's still going to be what they're attracted to in others.

720
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 2: And then when somebody else does that back to them,

721
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 2: it hurts one hundred times more because there's a wound

722
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:49,799
Speaker 2: there that hasn't had the chance to heal. So for

723
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:52,800
Speaker 2: somebody secure to experience that they don't have these preexisting wounds,

724
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 2: it's not as big of a deal somebody anxious who

725
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:58,240
Speaker 2: has these preexisting wounds. When somebody touches it, it hurts

726
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 2: so much more. And that's part of where that problem

727
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 2: needs to really be solved for a root level.

728
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:06,880
Speaker 1: It also sounds like such a cycle right where it's like,

729
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:09,760
Speaker 1: if the only love that you've ever come to expect

730
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:14,600
Speaker 1: and accept is this kind of blueprint, Obviously you're not

731
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:17,880
Speaker 1: going to know any different. You have no idea of

732
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 1: what love, healthy love, secure love actually feels like, So

733
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:25,200
Speaker 1: you're going to just repeat behaviors that put you in

734
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:29,279
Speaker 1: the same situation again and again and again. So how

735
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:34,360
Speaker 1: can we actually move past our anxiously attached tendencies? Like

736
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 1: a question that I really had for you coming into

737
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 1: this was is our attachment style forever? Is it predictive?

738
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:44,799
Speaker 1: Or are there things that we can do about it?

739
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:47,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's an amazing question and such an important one.

740
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:49,799
Speaker 2: So the answer it always gives to people is like,

741
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:52,960
Speaker 2: first of all, you're not born with the attachment style.

742
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 2: It's conditioned into you, and it's really through repetition and emotion,

743
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 2: that sort of key thing we keep talking about, and

744
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:01,480
Speaker 2: we can recondition it through repetition less emotions. So there's

745
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 2: a few things that we can do and anxious attachment styles,

746
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:07,320
Speaker 2: there's a few core things that are really good starting places.

747
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:10,319
Speaker 2: One is you have to learn what your needs are

748
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:13,040
Speaker 2: and you have to start advocating for them, because if

749
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 2: you try to advocate for your needs when they don't

750
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 2: get met, you advocate for them in a way where

751
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 2: you're also less likely to be heard. So if you

752
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 2: advocate for your needs, you're like, you never give me certainty,

753
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:25,239
Speaker 2: you never spend enough time with me. People just hear criticism,

754
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:28,120
Speaker 2: and then it's tragic because then somebody gets even less

755
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:30,440
Speaker 2: needs met and it becomes aus vicious cycle. So one

756
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 2: of the first things and what anxious attachment styles tend

757
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 2: to need the most in their relationships is certainty, consistency,

758
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:44,520
Speaker 2: Transparency is very important, a sense of safety, reassurance, validation,

759
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:49,839
Speaker 2: presence again not gifts, but like actual attunements, somebody giving

760
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:52,319
Speaker 2: their ability to be present to the person they love,

761
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 2: and a lot of encouragement from their partners. Like those

762
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:57,920
Speaker 2: eight things tend to be really top to your needs

763
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 2: for anxious attachment styles to feel like they can really

764
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 2: feel safe in a relationship, rest, decompress. But we also

765
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:09,160
Speaker 2: have to as anxious attachment styles, part of self soothing

766
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:11,520
Speaker 2: and not feeling when you feel that sense of panic

767
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:14,240
Speaker 2: as an anxious attachment style where you're like, oh my gosh,

768
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:17,279
Speaker 2: and that panic's alive in your body and you're having

769
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:19,439
Speaker 2: that kind of trauma response. Part of how you learn

770
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:21,440
Speaker 2: to self soothe so that it doesn't always have to

771
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 2: be calling again or things like that, is to learn

772
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 2: to give those needs in the relationship to yourself through

773
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:30,880
Speaker 2: repetition and emotion. So if an anxious attachment style learns

774
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:33,080
Speaker 2: their needs, knows that those are their top eight needs,

775
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:37,160
Speaker 2: starts giving those to themselves repetitively on a daily basis,

776
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:40,840
Speaker 2: like validating their wins each day, creating a sense of

777
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:44,120
Speaker 2: certainty by asking the right questions, but then also brings

778
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 2: those needs into their relationships with others and let them

779
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 2: be known, asks for them, practices that vulnerability. That's a

780
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:55,279
Speaker 2: first huge place for anxious attachments to start healing. And

781
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:58,400
Speaker 2: a second place. It's really profound for anxious attachment styles

782
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:00,359
Speaker 2: is sometimes aps tend to get into a space where

783
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 2: they'll go into enmeshment and codependency, meaning when they get

784
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:06,919
Speaker 2: into a relationship, they will make that person the center

785
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 2: of their universe. And it doesn't mean that somebody can't

786
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:14,160
Speaker 2: be like this massive, huge, beautiful, amazing person in your life,

787
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:17,240
Speaker 2: because they absolutely can and they should be. But anxious

788
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:21,799
Speaker 2: attachment cells sometimes will start chipping away at the other

789
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 2: areas of life. So, for example, when they're in a

790
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:27,320
Speaker 2: romantic relationship, they'll spend less time focusing on friends, family,

791
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 2: their career, their finances, their physical health, their mental emotional health. Like,

792
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:34,799
Speaker 2: there's so many areas of life that are really valuable,

793
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:38,160
Speaker 2: but sometimes anxious preoccupies will kind of like put them

794
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:40,359
Speaker 2: on the back burner when they get into a relationship.

795
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 2: The more that you give yourself away, the more that

796
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:47,280
Speaker 2: you stop focusing in a sort of balanced way across

797
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:49,560
Speaker 2: those different areas of life. Like you put your career

798
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:52,720
Speaker 2: goals on hold, you're just prioritizing your relationship. You spend

799
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:55,560
Speaker 2: all your budget going out to buy new clothes and

800
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:58,759
Speaker 2: impress the person you're dating, or spend money on a

801
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 2: fancy dinners, you know, the more that you give yourself

802
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 2: up without like actually considering how those choices are affecting

803
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:08,000
Speaker 2: you at your core and not seeing yourself it's also

804
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:12,200
Speaker 2: a person equal to the other person. The more you

805
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:16,839
Speaker 2: will then subconsciously put stress on the relationship because it's

806
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:19,360
Speaker 2: like that person becomes your whole world because you're ignoring

807
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:21,880
Speaker 2: the other parts of your world. So another really important

808
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:24,719
Speaker 2: part of healing for anxious attachment cells is to make

809
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 2: sure that you're making space and time for the other

810
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:29,319
Speaker 2: areas of your life that fill you up, that will

811
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:31,920
Speaker 2: actually help you stay really grounded and centered and present.

812
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:34,959
Speaker 2: And then I would say a third thing that tends

813
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:37,880
Speaker 2: to be really valuable is I call this just questioning

814
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:40,799
Speaker 2: your stories. It's a form of reprogramming. If we do

815
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:44,360
Speaker 2: it repetitively, it's very, very valuable. But as an anxious

816
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:47,719
Speaker 2: attachment cell, you know, as somebody who's lived through this,

817
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:49,880
Speaker 2: I was fearful avoidance. I had the anxious side. And

818
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:52,680
Speaker 2: it sounds like you've lived through this. Is it's so easy,

819
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 2: Like somebody doesn't call you back, and where does your

820
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:56,799
Speaker 2: mind go. It's like, oh my gosh, they're leaving me,

821
00:41:57,400 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 2: they're not coming back, they're losing interest. You know, we

822
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:03,400
Speaker 2: jump to conclusions based on our own pre existing core wounds.

823
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:07,239
Speaker 2: But if we can really sit in that story and

824
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:09,359
Speaker 2: we can question it, we can say, Okay, they didn't

825
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:11,200
Speaker 2: call me back and it means they're leaving me right now?

826
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:13,640
Speaker 2: Is that really true? Can I one hundred percent know

827
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:16,320
Speaker 2: that that's true? And we can just take the wind

828
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:19,120
Speaker 2: out of the sales of like that story that wants

829
00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:20,960
Speaker 2: to take us a million miles an hour down to

830
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:22,840
Speaker 2: like all the worst case scenarios that are going to

831
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:25,120
Speaker 2: happen when we can hold those narratives in the light,

832
00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 2: or sometimes we go they didn't call me back, they

833
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:29,680
Speaker 2: got in a car accident, all these bad things are happening,

834
00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:32,560
Speaker 2: Like we can really project all these scary scenarios. When

835
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:35,480
Speaker 2: we can learn to witness those thoughts and just question

836
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:38,359
Speaker 2: them and not jump too far into them, we can

837
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:40,239
Speaker 2: also self soothe in a powerful way. And if we

838
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:42,920
Speaker 2: do that repetitively, a lot of those stories stop showing

839
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:46,880
Speaker 2: back up, because repetition and emotion is actually pro reprogramming

840
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 2: that from being that comfort zone of what we're used

841
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:51,239
Speaker 2: to thinking. So I'd say those are three really really

842
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:52,400
Speaker 2: powerful places to start.

843
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:55,000
Speaker 1: I love those tips. And further to the last one

844
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:58,480
Speaker 1: as well, just ask, just be like, hi, you didn't

845
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:02,319
Speaker 1: just ask them. It's so it's so funny that like

846
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:05,640
Speaker 1: it's it seems so like I think for anyone who

847
00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:07,879
Speaker 1: is like securely attached, they'd be like, hey, why didn't

848
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:10,359
Speaker 1: you reply to me like I'm annoyed? But for anyone else,

849
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 1: they'd be like, how what do you mean? I can

850
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:14,800
Speaker 1: say that, isn't that just going to drive them away further?

851
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:17,160
Speaker 1: But it's like, no, you can just ask. And the

852
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:19,560
Speaker 1: other thing that I would actually add to that is

853
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:24,799
Speaker 1: sometimes when we I think, when we haven't had the

854
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:26,799
Speaker 1: love that we think we deserve, when love has been

855
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:29,319
Speaker 1: like in a deficit and we've had really like the

856
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:31,920
Speaker 1: supply has been low. Right, not to use like an

857
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:34,600
Speaker 1: economics term, but when we feel like love has been

858
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:38,480
Speaker 1: in a deficit, we see it as like the only

859
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:42,360
Speaker 1: thing that we want in life, and we are we

860
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:45,760
Speaker 1: put it on such a pedestal. And of course love

861
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:48,680
Speaker 1: is so important, it is like the lifeblood of being

862
00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 1: a human, but it is not the only thing about

863
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:55,000
Speaker 1: you that is valuable. Is your capacity to be loved

864
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:58,080
Speaker 1: and I also think that love isn't something that only

865
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:01,560
Speaker 1: has to come from other people. You can show yourself

866
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:04,239
Speaker 1: the love that you expect from others. I always think

867
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:06,640
Speaker 1: about this in the sense of like the love languages, right,

868
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:09,799
Speaker 1: we constantly think that we need to receive words of

869
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:12,839
Speaker 1: affirmation from someone else, acts of service from someone else,

870
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:15,839
Speaker 1: physical touch from someone else in order to fill up

871
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 1: those needs. But you can actually perform your love languages

872
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:23,759
Speaker 1: for yourself in those moments where you're feeling really anxious,

873
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:28,799
Speaker 1: or really abandoned, or really like trying to catastrophize every

874
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 1: small thing, Like give yourself a hug, speak words of

875
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:36,280
Speaker 1: affirmation to yourself, go and take yourself on a walk,

876
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:39,839
Speaker 1: and buy yourself like a little treat, a juice, something

877
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:42,239
Speaker 1: that's going to make you feel better, as a way

878
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 1: to show yourself the love that you're constantly expecting from

879
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:49,839
Speaker 1: others and should be expecting from others, but also should

880
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:51,400
Speaker 1: equally expect from yourself.

881
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:54,760
Speaker 2: I love that. That's so beautiful and it's so funny

882
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:57,279
Speaker 2: because we talk a lot about this too, and you

883
00:44:57,400 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 2: just nailed it, which is like we actually give love

884
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:01,720
Speaker 2: to our our selves through our love languages, but also

885
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:04,640
Speaker 2: through our needs and so the things that we feel

886
00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:06,880
Speaker 2: like we're needing so badly from somebody, when we just

887
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:08,680
Speaker 2: want them to answer the phone, or we just want

888
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 2: them to call us back, or we just want them

889
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:14,040
Speaker 2: to text us more. It's often a really valuable exercise

890
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:17,080
Speaker 2: to give those levelanguhiges absolutely, and the big ones for

891
00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:20,440
Speaker 2: anxious preoccupies are usually quality time, physical touchboards of affirmation

892
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:22,760
Speaker 2: like those are usually the top tier ones we're anxious.

893
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:24,799
Speaker 2: But then also to be like, well, what is it

894
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:26,680
Speaker 2: that I need from them so badly? And when you

895
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:30,080
Speaker 2: said that beautiful thing where you know, often like it

896
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:33,319
Speaker 2: represents a deficit people who feel like love is the

897
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:35,319
Speaker 2: center of their universe, And I do agree with you.

898
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:38,239
Speaker 2: It's like the lifeblood of being a human being. And

899
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:41,439
Speaker 2: if we're yearning for it from other people so so much,

900
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:43,120
Speaker 2: it always means that we don't have enough in the

901
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:45,239
Speaker 2: relationship to ourselves, and so we can We don't have

902
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:47,440
Speaker 2: to just do that when we're anxious. We can do

903
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:49,040
Speaker 2: that where we meet our needs or love lang which

904
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:51,200
Speaker 2: is when we're anxious and needing something from others. But

905
00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:54,720
Speaker 2: also the more we make like active habits and practice

906
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:56,839
Speaker 2: out of it on a daily basis, and the more

907
00:45:56,880 --> 00:45:59,280
Speaker 2: we just show up and create those routines in our lives,

908
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:02,400
Speaker 2: we fill our bucket halfway. And part of what's happening

909
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:04,839
Speaker 2: for anxious attachment styles is that they're not filling their

910
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:08,160
Speaker 2: bucket halfway. So the moment somebody else can't fill their bucket,

911
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:10,759
Speaker 2: it's like driving around with your gas tank and you

912
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:12,719
Speaker 2: know that you've like two kilometers left right, it's like

913
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:15,480
Speaker 2: you're right down to the brand, and so we panic.

914
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:17,720
Speaker 2: But if you can get into the habit it's always

915
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:21,080
Speaker 2: driving with a half tank full, then if somebody can't

916
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:23,600
Speaker 2: go from you know, pull in your gas tank and

917
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:26,680
Speaker 2: go from half to full, you're still totally fine and

918
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:29,440
Speaker 2: it's completely okay. And so you know, if you're seeing

919
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:31,400
Speaker 2: that in your life, being able to give yourself to

920
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:35,319
Speaker 2: that proactively and habitually makes such a difference and also

921
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:37,840
Speaker 2: really helps retrain the subconscious mind to get more secure

922
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:39,080
Speaker 2: in the relationship to self.

923
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:50,359
Speaker 1: I love that analogy. I absolutely adore that analogy. Thank

924
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:53,840
Speaker 1: you so much for coming on the show and for

925
00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 1: spreading your wisdom. I feel like I actually learnt so

926
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:01,120
Speaker 1: much like I'm listening to I was listening to you.

927
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:04,560
Speaker 1: Being like that is just making so much sense to me.

928
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 1: Everything is checking out. I can apply so much of

929
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 1: this to my relationship and my past relationships and the

930
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:14,920
Speaker 1: relationships that I've had with my parents and so many

931
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:17,479
Speaker 1: other people in my life. So I want to thank

932
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:20,239
Speaker 1: you again for finding the time to come on the

933
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:25,120
Speaker 1: podcast and share your wisdom. Where can the listeners find you?

934
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:27,799
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Thank you for sharing. Got that too,

935
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:31,080
Speaker 2: So even buy me at Personal Development School dash TII

936
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:34,040
Speaker 2: skipson It's spelled tchai ask kind of like tie with

937
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:36,359
Speaker 2: an ass at the end, but just Personal Development School

938
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:38,480
Speaker 2: will show up. And then also if anybody wants a

939
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:41,319
Speaker 2: free attachment style quiz, we have a free quiz. It

940
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:43,359
Speaker 2: tells you like your attachment style and then it gives

941
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:45,719
Speaker 2: you a report on like your wounds, your needs, the

942
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:48,920
Speaker 2: ways you can communicate, gives like some supportive tools all

943
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 2: for free at www dot Personaldevelopment school dot com.

944
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:55,560
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, I'm going to go and do that

945
00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 1: now I feel like I know the answer. But what

946
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:00,560
Speaker 1: a good resource. Also, there were so many attached quizzers

947
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:02,080
Speaker 1: out there that it's like we can tell you your

948
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:04,799
Speaker 1: attachment style and like five questions and then you have

949
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:07,160
Speaker 1: to you have to like submit, like you've got to

950
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:08,880
Speaker 1: pay for it. It's like fifty dollars in it like

951
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:09,840
Speaker 1: doesn't tell you anything.

952
00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, ours is free and I think there's

953
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:14,160
Speaker 2: about thirty questions on there to really get into like

954
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:16,320
Speaker 2: the nitty gritty and really get you a clear answer.

955
00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:18,640
Speaker 1: I'm so excited, I'm actually gonna go and do it.

956
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:20,200
Speaker 1: I'm going to send it to my friends as well.

957
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:23,760
Speaker 1: So again, thank you so much for coming on the show.

958
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:27,200
Speaker 1: As always, if you enjoyed this episode, please feel free

959
00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:30,160
Speaker 1: to leave a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,

960
00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:33,000
Speaker 1: wherever you are listening right now. If there is a

961
00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:37,040
Speaker 1: friend who needs to hear this, maybe you should share

962
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:40,040
Speaker 1: them a link, send it along, share the love, maybe

963
00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:43,040
Speaker 1: they'll learn something. And make sure that you are following

964
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:47,080
Speaker 1: us so you know when new episodes come out. And finally,

965
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:50,200
Speaker 1: if you have an episode suggestion, if you want us

966
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 1: to talk more about maybe the dismissive avoidant the fearful avoidant,

967
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:57,880
Speaker 1: please reach out to me at that Psychology podcast on

968
00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:01,480
Speaker 1: Instagram and have a lovely week. We would be back

969
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:03,320
Speaker 1: next week with another episode.

970
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:08,160
Speaker 2: M