Speaker 1: Episode three forty three Managing Money and Anxiety.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast, where you'll learn to
Speaker 2: save money, embrace simplicity, and liver your life. Here your
Speaker 2: hosts Jen and Jill.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast. My name is Jen,
Speaker 1: my name is Jill, and today we are talking about
Speaker 1: managing money with anxiety, but also the anxiety that comes
Speaker 1: from managing money. So whether you are somebody with a
Speaker 1: diagnosed anxiety disorder, or just feel high anxiety, or just
Speaker 1: or in a short season of heightened anxiety, this episode
Speaker 1: is for you, especially if that anxiety comes for money,
Speaker 1: but even if it doesn't.
Speaker 3: Yes, we see you and we always want to agnow
Speaker 3: knowledge the whole person that each one of us is
Speaker 3: and the realities that managing money is going to intersect
Speaker 3: with our mental health and the various struggles that we
Speaker 3: may be navigating, and certainly anxiety and we'll talk a
Speaker 3: little bit about depression as well, are some of the
Speaker 3: most common mental health concerns that we can face. And
Speaker 3: as Jen said, sometimes circumstantial and sometimes a clinical diagnosis
Speaker 3: is there. Wherever you may find yourself, we see you
Speaker 3: and we want to be able to provide some tools
Speaker 3: and resources for you.
Speaker 1: Yes, And this episode is brought to you by World
Speaker 1: Mental Health Day, which is coming up on October tenth,
Speaker 1: and it's an opportunity for people and communities to unite
Speaker 1: behind this year's theme, which is mental health is a
Speaker 1: Universal human Right. We want to improve knowledge, raise awareness,
Speaker 1: drive actions that promote and protect everyone's mental health as
Speaker 1: a universal human right. We are so passionate about mental
Speaker 1: health and making sure that everyone feels cared for, and
Speaker 1: so we want to care for you if you are
Speaker 1: dealing with anxiety. We chose to focus on anxiety because
Speaker 1: it is the number one diagnosed mental health disorder and
Speaker 1: so many people are are dealing with it without a
Speaker 1: clinical diagnosis. And so with that fact, we really didn't
Speaker 1: want to just cover all of mental health. We wanted
Speaker 1: to focus in on this one thing, and luckily there's
Speaker 1: there's a lot of writing on it. But if you
Speaker 1: are interested in just overall mental health, we did an
Speaker 1: episode with Melanie Lockert, episode one ninety four, paying Off
Speaker 1: Debt and it's associated with your mental health. That's a
Speaker 1: really really good one. So I would recommend scrolling back
Speaker 1: to one ninety four. But let's get into our articles. Jill,
Speaker 1: this is very much an episode for you. I'm so
Speaker 1: excited that you are our guest.
Speaker 3: And experts and co host and co host for this episode.
Speaker 3: Ah well, I'm glad to be doing this, and I
Speaker 3: think I am grateful that there is more and more
Speaker 3: conversation about the intersection of our finances and mental health,
Speaker 3: and I think that we are seeing more and more
Speaker 3: space to be able to recognize and acknowledge that. But
Speaker 3: there's still more to be done here and as many
Speaker 3: voices as possible, and so for now we're going to
Speaker 3: focus on some of the most common mental health concerns,
Speaker 3: like anxiety. But I do want to run through this
Speaker 3: first article that comes from bank rate, and it just
Speaker 3: gives an overarching view of some of the research that
Speaker 3: has been done recently on the intersection of mental health
Speaker 3: as a whole with our finances. A lot of this
Speaker 3: is going to be talking specifically about anxiety, and we
Speaker 3: will get more and more into that in the second
Speaker 3: half of what can be done. But I do think
Speaker 3: it's worth acknowledging what are we looking at, what are
Speaker 3: we facing, because I think identification in any situation is
Speaker 3: one of the first steps that we need to be
Speaker 3: aware of what's happening worldwide, nationally, within our communities, and
Speaker 3: within ourselves before we can even know what is the
Speaker 3: best response going to be. So this article from Bankreat
Speaker 3: is titled more than half of Americans say money negatively
Speaker 3: impacts their mental health, up sharply from a year ago.
Speaker 3: And I think a lot of us can commiserate with this.
Speaker 3: I think we've got a reality to what's happening in
Speaker 3: the economy and with inflation, and whether or not each
Speaker 3: one of us has received raises and are they keeping
Speaker 3: up with inflation, and then you name it on the
Speaker 3: personal circumstances that may be happening even as we are
Speaker 3: still recovering from the pandemic. So here we are, and
Speaker 3: Great actually commissioned research to be done on the correlation
Speaker 3: between mental health and money and you'll love this jen
Speaker 3: with a total sample size of two thousand, three hundred
Speaker 3: and sixty five US adults, and they were surveyed recently
Speaker 3: April twelfth to fourteenth, twenty twenty three, so at the
Speaker 3: time of recording this was within this year. So we
Speaker 3: just want to go through some of the main findings.
Speaker 3: And I will say this too. One of the reasons
Speaker 3: for highlighting some of these key findings and statistics is
Speaker 3: for the sake of normalization, which is one of those
Speaker 3: terms that we use even within the clinical world and
Speaker 3: mental health world, of something that's helpful when we can
Speaker 3: find ourselves amongst friends and others having similar experiences to us,
Speaker 3: that what we are experiencing is common. Not to say
Speaker 3: that you're not special and unique, but that you're not
Speaker 3: alone in it. That if you are feeling anxiety and
Speaker 3: depression just on its own, but especially if it's connected
Speaker 3: with finances, and the two kind of volley back and
Speaker 3: forth in their impact on one another, you're not alone.
Speaker 3: And one of the key findings that they state here
Speaker 3: is that money takes a toll on mental health for
Speaker 3: so many Money is the most cited factor that has
Speaker 3: a negative impact on us adults mental health fifty two percent,
Speaker 3: ahead of one's own health, which is at forty two percent.
Speaker 3: Current events the toll that it takes they're listing at
Speaker 3: forty one percent, the health of family and friends thirty
Speaker 3: six percent, relationships with friends and family thirty two percent,
Speaker 3: and work thirty one percent, So all kind of within
Speaker 3: that thirty to fifty percent range, but really spiking around
Speaker 3: the money issue and its impact on mental health again
Speaker 3: at that fifty two percent, And I would imagine too,
Speaker 3: because money can be a circumstantial depends on what's happening
Speaker 3: that we've all probably every single person, myself included and
Speaker 3: those of you listening, have experiences at one point. I
Speaker 3: mean we're talking time of survey, but depending on what
Speaker 3: you've experienced throughout life, you have probably had an experience
Speaker 3: where money led to high anxiety or symptoms of depression
Speaker 3: for you. And it's so drastic, that's such a high number,
Speaker 3: more than half.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And if this is a new feeling for you,
Speaker 1: like you haven't been anxious about money, but it's kind
Speaker 1: of new, then that's normal because economic factors such as inflation,
Speaker 1: rising interest rates, job security. Those more than four out
Speaker 1: of fives eighty two percent say those feelings of stress, anxiety, worries,
Speaker 1: someome thoughts, loss of sleep are caused by economic factors. So,
Speaker 1: according to the survey, sixty eight percent say it's due
Speaker 1: to inflation rising prices, thirty one percent say to write
Speaker 1: interest rates, and then twenty nine percent say it's from
Speaker 1: not having a stable income or job security. So our
Speaker 1: economic landscape in the last year or two has changed drastically.
Speaker 1: So if your feelings of anxiety are new or maybe heightened,
Speaker 1: then that's kind of the may be one of the
Speaker 1: reasons why, So take heart that things are changing and
Speaker 1: so it's causing an increase in anxiety.
Speaker 3: They're also citing here similar to what you're saying, Jen,
Speaker 3: that Americans are worrying more often about money. That's becoming
Speaker 3: a more prevalent daily concern. So of those who say
Speaker 3: that money has a negative impact on their mental health,
Speaker 3: fifty six percent of those people say it happens at
Speaker 3: least once a week, which is up fifty two percent
Speaker 3: from the previous year. In what the response is indicated,
Speaker 3: twenty nine percent of those who say money has a
Speaker 3: negative impact on their mental health say they worry about
Speaker 3: money daily. That's a significant amount of people, twenty nine percent,
Speaker 3: I mean, of those who say it impacts their mental
Speaker 3: health negatively, that's a lot. And so chances are we're
Speaker 3: talking to some of you who, yes, I'm not only
Speaker 3: thinking about my money daily, but it is a daily
Speaker 3: stressor for me, it's not helpful thoughts. They are relatively negative, overwhelming,
Speaker 3: unbearable types of thoughts related to my finances.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I wanted to add just a tiny sidebar
Speaker 1: of an article because when money and the economy is
Speaker 1: causing so much anxiety, we have to take that anxiety
Speaker 1: out somewhere. So maybe your anxiety is being caused by money,
Speaker 1: or maybe you have heightened anxiety already and this is
Speaker 1: just adding onto it. And so there's also a cost
Speaker 1: that comes with how we process anxiety. So I just
Speaker 1: wanted to real quick at in this short Thrive Global
Speaker 1: article the financial cost of anxiety so retail therapy. So
Speaker 1: a lot of people are more prone to impulsivity when
Speaker 1: their anxiety is high. Whether you deal with this on
Speaker 1: the regular or you're in a season of it. Public transit,
Speaker 1: even if you are somebody who usually takes public transit,
Speaker 1: sometimes anxiety can come out in the way that you
Speaker 1: don't want to be surrounded by other people, so you
Speaker 1: start taking ubers and taxis instead of public transit. And
Speaker 1: then also treatment, So if you choose to get treatment
Speaker 1: for your anxiety, your average cost of therapy is ranging
Speaker 1: from one hundred to two hundred per session without insurance.
Speaker 1: And so these are some of and not to mention.
Speaker 1: If you choose to take a medication if you're prescribed one.
Speaker 1: These are the costs that come with this and can't
Speaker 1: be ignored. We want to think about this when we
Speaker 1: start to think about, like how do I budget with
Speaker 1: the times being as anxiety producing as they are, and
Speaker 1: how am I going to process this anxiety healthfully instead
Speaker 1: of bottling it up and burying it down deep inside
Speaker 1: until the housing market or something crashes and then we
Speaker 1: can come back out like a butterfly. I don't believe
Speaker 1: that's going to happen, at least not anytime soon, So
Speaker 1: I think processing it in a healthy way is probably
Speaker 1: better for you and your finances. But yeah, so I
Speaker 1: just wanted to add that quick sidebar in there that
Speaker 1: there's also a cost to managing it.
Speaker 3: And sometimes that can feel like a wheel. You're never
Speaker 3: going to get off of a hamster wheel where the
Speaker 3: one thing leads to the other, and you could feel
Speaker 3: like you're hemorrhaging money and not feeling like you're improving
Speaker 3: in your circumstances or your mental state. Just to further
Speaker 3: acknowledge where we could possibly be finding ourselves at any
Speaker 3: given point, I want to highlight again the concept of
Speaker 3: mental health impacting money and money impacting mental health. Sometimes
Speaker 3: they're one and the same. Sometimes that is the hamster
Speaker 3: wheel we're on. Sometimes we can find ourselves in one
Speaker 3: of those two camps. So just to tease this apart
Speaker 3: a little bit, it's worth acknowledging or identifying where we
Speaker 3: might be finding ourselves at any given point, because again,
Speaker 3: that's going to help us in identifying then what do
Speaker 3: I do next. So there could be some where the
Speaker 3: primary concern is mental health impacting money, And what we
Speaker 3: mean by that is that some mental health concerns are
Speaker 3: associated with impulsive behaviors, which can make it even more
Speaker 3: difficult to budget appropriately, manage, spend, or save. And the
Speaker 3: primary reason for those difficulties with personal finances is the
Speaker 3: mental health diagnosis. First, that causes greater barriers to our
Speaker 3: ability to implement changes and patterns that are going to
Speaker 3: be beneficial for us. There is no shame in that.
Speaker 3: It is worth knowing though, And again the way that
Speaker 3: we may respond to that might be first and foremost,
Speaker 3: receiving care and support and resources, possibly medication for the
Speaker 3: mental health concern prior to, or maybe in conjunction with,
Speaker 3: looking at finances and the behaviors around that, because just
Speaker 3: looking at the behaviors and not the underlying or overarching
Speaker 3: mental health concern. Isn't ultimately going to solve the problem.
Speaker 3: And then conversely, we've got situations where money is primarily
Speaker 3: what's impacting mental health, and that's more your circumstantial issues
Speaker 3: that are leading to impact on our mental state, mental emotional,
Speaker 3: relational state. That could include specific financial hardships that can
Speaker 3: increase our experiences of symptoms of depression and anxiety. It
Speaker 3: could be having debt and feeling the weight of that
Speaker 3: mentally and emotionally, and that leading to increase stress, intrusive thoughts,
Speaker 3: kind of constantly being concerned about, feeling anxious about the
Speaker 3: realities of the debt that you owe, not knowing how
Speaker 3: you're going to meet all of those payments. So again
Speaker 3: that's an example of circumstances that are impacting mental health.
Speaker 3: Even still, it's going to be helpful to see a
Speaker 3: mental health professional, but in those types of situations, it's
Speaker 3: definitely going to be important to recognize the circumstance and
Speaker 3: be able to come up with a tangible, implementable plan
Speaker 3: because that's going to have a very clear and positive
Speaker 3: impact then on your mental health. When you feel as
Speaker 3: though you're in control of it absolutely.
Speaker 1: So that leads us into the second half of the episode,
Speaker 1: where we talk about how do you manage your money
Speaker 1: when you have depression or anxiety? It's normal, don't feel
Speaker 1: guilty or ashamed that you are dealing with it, even
Speaker 1: if it's new. And I'll kind of share later how
Speaker 1: this is kind of a very fresh topic for me
Speaker 1: and how I kind of need those words myself. But
Speaker 1: so what do we do from here? And so that's
Speaker 1: our next article from gosh. One of my closest friends,
Speaker 1: Alison Baggerly over Inspired Budget, and she has also amazing
Speaker 1: things to say about managing your money when you have
Speaker 1: depression or anxiety. So I'm so glad we're going through
Speaker 1: her article because I've heard her speak on this and
Speaker 1: she has such wisdom.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I really love this one, and I would recommend
Speaker 3: anyone who is listening to this podcast to also go
Speaker 3: and read the fullness of what Allison has to say here,
Speaker 3: because she is speaking from a very personal place, not
Speaker 3: necessarily from the viewpoint of a mental health professional, but
Speaker 3: someone who herself manages anxiety and depression, and she's speaking
Speaker 3: very candidly in quite an empathetic and approachable manner that
Speaker 3: just provides such balm to the soul and spirit and
Speaker 3: our emotions, at least for me, as I was reading this,
Speaker 3: I found myself very comforted by her words, and I'll
Speaker 3: affirm all of the steps that she says, but even
Speaker 3: before that, I'm going to re emphasize that identifying first
Speaker 3: and foremost what it is that you're dealing with, what
Speaker 3: you're experiencing in your mental and emotional health health, and
Speaker 3: how those symptoms are showing up for you individually. Because
Speaker 3: while there's a whole diagnostic statistical manual that's going to
Speaker 3: tell us what is the diagnostic criteria for these different
Speaker 3: mental health concerns, is still going to look different for
Speaker 3: every person. So first having an understanding of what are
Speaker 3: the symptoms that I'm experiencing, what does this look like
Speaker 3: for me in my body, in my mind, in my relationships,
Speaker 3: and what do I want to see change and be
Speaker 3: different here? It could be that before we even get
Speaker 3: to these steps that Alison outlines for us in this article,
Speaker 3: that we need to seek out care from a mental
Speaker 3: health professional first. So we're definitely going to be getting
Speaker 3: into steps just related to specifically personal finance, but please
Speaker 3: hear me say that it is recommended, good and right
Speaker 3: to first go seek help and support even if you
Speaker 3: feel like you're drowning in debt. If you are experiencing
Speaker 3: severe negative impacts on your mental health and relationships as
Speaker 3: defined by you, then seek your own care before you
Speaker 3: begin to try and make minor changes to actions, behaviors
Speaker 3: or what's written down about your money on a piece
Speaker 3: of paper. Yeah, so there's that caveat, and then from
Speaker 3: there getting into these tips for what we're going to do.
Speaker 1: First, Yeah, it's not worth it to be debt free,
Speaker 1: but to be a shell of yourself. It's better to
Speaker 1: take a little longer to pay off debt, take a
Speaker 1: little longer to get those financial goals accomplished, but be
Speaker 1: fully you. So first in Allison's tips for how she
Speaker 1: manages her money while battling depressionary anxiety is following a plan.
Speaker 1: And this is so critical when everything around you is chaos,
Speaker 1: or when you are perceiving everything around you to be chaos,
Speaker 1: that you are following a plan that has been laid
Speaker 1: out by someone else. So there is a time, and
Speaker 1: we talk about this all the time, there's a time
Speaker 1: for creating your own plan, and we want you to
Speaker 1: do that when you are feeling anxious or when you
Speaker 1: are in a season of high anxiety. Not the time
Speaker 1: unless you already have a concrete plan that you've made
Speaker 1: for yourself. Even still, it may be time to amend
Speaker 1: that plan. So if you don't already have something to amend,
Speaker 1: then follow a plan that somebody else has already written out.
Speaker 1: Don't think about doing it perfectly, don't think about how
Speaker 1: to customize it. Just if you feel like you're treading
Speaker 1: water yet you are already seeking help for that, then
Speaker 1: the first thing is to follow a plan that can
Speaker 1: be written down. So for Alison, her plan and looked
Speaker 1: like step one, save an emergency fund, Step two, learn
Speaker 1: how to write a budget that works for her, Step
Speaker 1: three track my expenses, step foward utilize sinking funds. So
Speaker 1: it's very granular. A lot of financial plans are very broad,
Speaker 1: and so Allison's plan that she just made for herself
Speaker 1: that she followed was really with the inspiration what's the
Speaker 1: next right thing? And I know that's something that when
Speaker 1: people are dealing with anxiety or depression, you just do
Speaker 1: the next right thing. And that's really the type of
Speaker 1: financial plan that we're going for just what's the next
Speaker 1: right thing for me to do? And it doesn't even
Speaker 1: It can be big, like saving up the emergency fund,
Speaker 1: writing the budget, tracking expenses, but it can also be small.
Speaker 1: Day today, So what's the next right thing I can do?
Speaker 1: Make coffee at home, next right thing, pack my lunch,
Speaker 1: next right thing, creates some conglomerate of whatever ingredients I
Speaker 1: have in my refrigerator and pantry for dinner. Stuff like that.
Speaker 1: They are small things. They are not going to change
Speaker 1: your financial life, but they're going to change your financial day.
Speaker 3: And one of the reasons that I love this tip
Speaker 3: and the rest that follow is specifically as it relates
Speaker 3: to symptoms and experiences of anxiety, is that what is
Speaker 3: happening inside of our mind and body is a very
Speaker 3: real or perceived threat that is putting us in this
Speaker 3: hypervigilant kind of fight flight freeze mode. And one of
Speaker 3: the things that we can do, if we've not learned
Speaker 3: some helpful coping mechanisms for ourselves, is just kind of
Speaker 3: grab whatever we might be able to find in front
Speaker 3: of us, but we're not actually hitting the nail on
Speaker 3: the head, so to speak, with what the symptoms are
Speaker 3: connected to Sometimes our anxiety is connected to circumstances. Sometimes
Speaker 3: it's because of a clinical diagnosis, and we can't link
Speaker 3: it to anything, and that's part of the anxiety. Anxiety
Speaker 3: leads to anxiety, or we get anxious about being anxious.
Speaker 3: But with this having a plan, especially if our anxiety
Speaker 3: is related to money, it allows us something that we
Speaker 3: can put our efforts towards that might be able to
Speaker 3: quiet some of that hypervigilance, that fight flight freeze that
Speaker 3: we're experiencing, where we are able to look at the
Speaker 3: threat that's in front of us. Maybe it's debt, maybe
Speaker 3: it's feeling as though I'm not going to be able
Speaker 3: to pay the next bill, or maybe it's just wanting
Speaker 3: to feel the sense of security. And if we are
Speaker 3: able to have a plan, I'm not saying it's going
Speaker 3: to resolve the entire thing, but it is something that
Speaker 3: can be a target, something we can aim at and
Speaker 3: even be reminding ourselves of. Well, but these are the
Speaker 3: steps that I'm taking, And I know that I feel
Speaker 3: this way about this money issue, this money stressor but
Speaker 3: I have a plan in place, and that can be
Speaker 3: again one of the first steps that helps in relieving
Speaker 3: some of those symptoms and then from there, the next
Speaker 3: tip here is to build a savings and sinking funds.
Speaker 3: This too will help decrease some of the anxiety or
Speaker 3: depression that we might be feeling about our finances, because again,
Speaker 3: we've got a plan, We've got something in the back
Speaker 3: burner in a high yield savings account for those rainy
Speaker 3: days where when those anxieties or intrusive thoughts pop up,
Speaker 3: we can know we are saving for this or there
Speaker 3: is some money in this sinking fund to cover XYZ
Speaker 3: circumstance that's happening. Whenever we have some of these tools, resources, reserves,
Speaker 3: a plan in place to attack the real or perceived threat,
Speaker 3: it's going to help quiet some of that internal monologue.
Speaker 1: Yeah, a savings account, an emergency fund is a huge
Speaker 1: stress reliever. Sometimes it's not enough, especially for super savers.
Speaker 1: If you are someone who hoards money, hoards investments, it
Speaker 1: cannot be enough, I'll put it that way. So I
Speaker 1: think it's also important to stress, Like you have to
Speaker 1: figure out what you're enough is before you get into
Speaker 1: times of heightened stress or anxiety, or if you're already
Speaker 1: there meditating on that, like what is my enough? What
Speaker 1: is my enough for like money for savings and be
Speaker 1: okay when you get there. And that is easier said
Speaker 1: than done, for sure, but know that even when you
Speaker 1: have a savings foundation that it may not be enough.
Speaker 1: So let's continue to go down the list, shall we. Uh.
Speaker 1: The third is to automate everything as much as possible.
Speaker 1: I think it goes without saying. We automate our bills,
Speaker 1: we automate our rent, we automate our savings. I know
Speaker 1: some people who like to pay things manually, but again,
Speaker 1: when we're in this fight or flight mode of anxiety,
Speaker 1: then making sure things are automated. But then we can
Speaker 1: also get too automated. So like subscriptions, when you are
Speaker 1: feeling anxious, the last thing you want to do is
Speaker 1: look at your transactions find out how much you've been
Speaker 1: spending to cope with your anxiety. But you need to
Speaker 1: see what are the subscriptions in there that you've automated
Speaker 1: that you should stop paying. So I would say as
Speaker 1: a caveat to automate everything, I would say this is
Speaker 1: also the step to get in there and stop automating
Speaker 1: what you don't want to be spending on.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And the next tip on here is to know
Speaker 3: what makes you anxious when it comes to money. I
Speaker 3: know that I already talked about just identifying your own
Speaker 3: symptoms the way that you experience anxiety and depression. This
Speaker 3: tip's getting a little bit more specific on as it
Speaker 3: relates to money. What are the key things that make
Speaker 3: you anxious? So this could include specific types of spending,
Speaker 3: maybe specific types of saving that may or may not
Speaker 3: be happening. It could be debt. It also could be
Speaker 3: time specific, so there could be certain times of the
Speaker 3: month that you feel increased anxiety related to money. Is
Speaker 3: it just before payday? Is it right after your mortgage
Speaker 3: payment goes through? Is it any time that you do
Speaker 3: actually decide to track your expenses that you experience kind
Speaker 3: of an increased heart rate and you're getting sweaty, or
Speaker 3: you're having difficulty relating to others who are in your
Speaker 3: immediate space. This is even helpful to get into the
Speaker 3: minutia of identifying and being aware of and all of
Speaker 3: this is related to just understanding of self that it
Speaker 3: is good to know the specifics of what are the triggers,
Speaker 3: not necessarily so that they could be avoided, but so
Speaker 3: that we can learn how to manage ourselves. Better and
Speaker 3: better as we engage with some of these triggers, because
Speaker 3: just before payday is going to keep happening, Needing to
Speaker 3: pay rent is going to keep happening. But if we
Speaker 3: can know, oh, those are the times that I'm experiencing
Speaker 3: increase difficulty with my mental health, now we're armed. Now
Speaker 3: we are even more equipped and prepared to care for
Speaker 3: ourselves well because we can then also pair that with
Speaker 3: efforts towards caring for ourselves. What do we need to
Speaker 3: do then? If we know that this is going to
Speaker 3: lead to increased anxiety, it could be some of your
Speaker 3: very low level coping mechanisms of I am going to
Speaker 3: do a ten minute YouTube video of deep breathing exercises
Speaker 3: before I sit down to do my budget for the month.
Speaker 3: Some of this you're going to want to talk with
Speaker 3: your mental health care provider about of what what's your
Speaker 3: specific plan. I'm just giving some examples here, But knowing
Speaker 3: the realities of yourself coming into some of that increased
Speaker 3: self knowledge is going to help us know then what
Speaker 3: do we do next. They can be tools and resources
Speaker 3: for us of how to hold the tension. What this
Speaker 3: could also mean is telling us what to avoid I
Speaker 3: know that I already said some triggers we can't avoid,
Speaker 3: but some we can. There may be some things that
Speaker 3: we are doing that aren't actually helpful for us. For instance,
Speaker 3: are we feeling anxiety about our money and then we
Speaker 3: go watch a bunch of true crime TV and get
Speaker 3: even more anxious and we scare ourselves. It could be
Speaker 3: that even the things that we are entertaining ourselves with
Speaker 3: are adding fuel to this fire. And so anytime that
Speaker 3: we're experiencing higher degrees of anxiety or symptoms of depression,
Speaker 3: we're going to need to think about what to hold
Speaker 3: the tension with. What is that producing in me and
Speaker 3: in my body, and what could I either take away
Speaker 3: or implement that's going to help bring some tension to it.
Speaker 3: I'm not going to use the word balance, but kind
Speaker 3: of help to bring an equilibrium that can happen inside
Speaker 3: of ourselves.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think this also influences how we practice
Speaker 1: personal finance. So this is where we take math away
Speaker 1: and we add the personal part of finance. When you
Speaker 1: find what makes you anxious, then you avoid it even
Speaker 1: if the math says you shouldn't. So this is like
Speaker 1: debt if you are paying off your debt, and one
Speaker 1: person saying, hey, pay off all your debt, and the
Speaker 1: other person saying, don't pay off your debt, buy a
Speaker 1: house or invest in your finding your radical middle. Sometimes
Speaker 1: it looks like, Okay, all of this debt, regardless of
Speaker 1: interest rate, is stressing me out. I want to get
Speaker 1: rid of all of it. I know I need to invest,
Speaker 1: but I'm putting it off. So when we are looking
Speaker 1: more at what makes us anxious, we can also start
Speaker 1: to correlate that with how we are formulating this radical
Speaker 1: middle financial plan and how we're prioritizing our financial goals.
Speaker 1: And the last one on this list is ask for help.
Speaker 1: I know we said it at the very beginning. It's
Speaker 1: the first thing you should start with, but it's the
Speaker 1: last thing that you should think of as well. So
Speaker 1: asking for help, whether it's professional or just a friend,
Speaker 1: cooking dinner, running errands, daily routines, anything. So we always
Speaker 1: think of a therapist as helping, But there is so
Speaker 1: much value in community. There's an old saying like it
Speaker 1: takes a village to raise a child, but like villages
Speaker 1: are fewer and farther between, and it's not just for
Speaker 1: raising children, it's for living. It like doesn't stop at childhood.
Speaker 1: It takes a village to live, honestly. Yeah, So not
Speaker 1: even just asking for help, but just being in connection
Speaker 1: with other people and sharing each other's burdens. So, whether
Speaker 1: that's venting or you're buying dinner for someone and they're
Speaker 1: buying dinner for you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that certainly it can be so helpful
Speaker 3: to seek professional mental health support, but even that professional
Speaker 3: is going to tell you, all right, where are the
Speaker 3: friends and family and community members and what are you
Speaker 3: involved in? Because there is only so far that one hour, weekly,
Speaker 3: bi weekly or monthly is going to do. Then it
Speaker 3: is going to be the implementation of community. And I
Speaker 3: love what you're saying, Jena. It's not only asking for help,
Speaker 3: it's also just in gauging in supportive community. And one
Speaker 3: of the ways that we can do that is through
Speaker 3: listening and acquiring resources that we know are going to
Speaker 3: help put more tools in our tool belt and help
Speaker 3: us address some of the experiences that we're having, like
Speaker 3: listening to podcasts and reading helpful blogs or finding books
Speaker 3: that are going to give us some of the knowledge
Speaker 3: that we may be missing, and yeah, cooking with other
Speaker 3: people and just doing all of the things, and we
Speaker 3: need each other, none of us as purely independent. And
Speaker 3: you know what, we also need that. It's going to
Speaker 3: happen multiple times a week, almost more than therapy.
Speaker 1: And it's here to support you as we are.
Speaker 4: The bill of the.
Speaker 5: Week, that's right, it's time for the best minute of
Speaker 5: your entire week.
Speaker 2: Maybe a baby was born and his name is William.
Speaker 5: Maybe you've paid off your mortgage. Maybe your car died
Speaker 5: and you're happy to not have to pay that bill anymore.
Speaker 5: Be bills, Buffalo bills, Bill Clinton, this is the bill
Speaker 5: of the week.
Speaker 6: Hi, Jen and Jill. My name is Lucretia, and my
Speaker 6: bill of the week is that I have saved my
Speaker 6: first ten grand yippie. I am so excited. You'll catch
Speaker 6: me drinking champagne tonight in honor of my money saving.
Speaker 6: And thank you very much for your educational podcast each
Speaker 6: week I listened to it. Thank you very much. I
Speaker 6: hope you have a great day.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Lucretia, this is so exciting.
Speaker 4: We're popping bottles with you.
Speaker 1: Figuratively, Yes, I want to pop bottles with you. I
Speaker 1: am so proud of you. Ten thousand dollars is hugh huge.
Speaker 4: I think it was one thousands on thousand and one thousand.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you're right. Ten grand is huge, huge, and
Speaker 1: you should celebrate, not just with popping champagne, but it
Speaker 1: is something that you shouldn't continue to celebrate because it
Speaker 1: doesn't just mean that you did a few things right.
Speaker 1: It means you did a lot of things right for
Speaker 1: a long time, and we are so proud of you.
Speaker 3: That is what an accomplishment and I think what a
Speaker 3: beautiful tie into this episode too, because we also need
Speaker 3: the reminders of seeing and celebrating and acknowledging our accomplishments,
Speaker 3: how far we've come, what we've done, sharing that with
Speaker 3: others so that we can know this is possible.
Speaker 4: Lucretia did it, I can do it, You can do it.
Speaker 4: We all can do it together.
Speaker 3: And we're going to celebrate along the way and we
Speaker 3: can cry along the way. But man, when it's time
Speaker 3: for some champagne, feel free to make it persecco, and
Speaker 3: we're still going to be celebrating. If you all listening
Speaker 3: have a reason to celebrate, if you are pop and bottles,
Speaker 3: if you've saved money, if you've spent money that you
Speaker 3: feel good about because it's in your values and you
Speaker 3: did have it saved previously or again your your name
Speaker 3: is just Bill and you haven't done any of these things,
Speaker 3: but your bill perfect. Visit Frugal Friends podcast dot com
Speaker 3: slash Bill. Leave us a bill. We cannot wait to
Speaker 3: hear it.
Speaker 4: And now it's time.
Speaker 1: For So what is your go to self care practice
Speaker 1: that you find helpful in managing money related anxiety?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 3: Well, I can say that I definitely find myself in
Speaker 3: these statistics that we're talked about in that first article.
Speaker 3: I can commiserate that I experience anxiety inside myself and
Speaker 3: sometimes depression given the various state of things. And if
Speaker 3: you've listened to recent episodes, you know that for me
Speaker 3: personally with Eric, we're making some changes in our careers
Speaker 3: currently or at least for me, and it feels like
Speaker 3: it's effected for both of us, which means making less
Speaker 3: money and especially in the state of inflation and where
Speaker 3: the economy is, that can at minimum lead to increased stress,
Speaker 3: if not also experiencing.
Speaker 4: Anxiety in my body and in my mind.
Speaker 3: And so what I have found helpful for me is
Speaker 3: a lot of what we've already talked about in this
Speaker 3: episode is identifying it I do think that I have
Speaker 3: been able to find ways for that to be my
Speaker 3: first step of what's happening, what is going on, and
Speaker 3: creating some of that pause which is paired with self knowledge,
Speaker 3: but also so just a value for myself that I
Speaker 3: will give myself the space to acknowledge and identify what
Speaker 3: is going on inside of me at least just name it. Okay,
Speaker 3: I'm feeling shortness of breath, I am feeling quite overwhelmed.
Speaker 3: Here might be some of the things I'm thinking about.
Speaker 3: If I can take it a step further to say,
Speaker 3: what is this connected to, or what thoughts came just
Speaker 3: before this, or what circumstance just happened, that can help
Speaker 3: me too. Sometimes we don't know. Sometimes I don't know.
Speaker 3: This is just how I'm feeling right now, So then
Speaker 3: I can just move into the next thing of is
Speaker 3: there an action that I can take? Usually, if I
Speaker 3: am feeling quite heightened anxiety, it will just be like
Speaker 3: belly breathing. I know that a lot of times we'll
Speaker 3: talk about deep breathing, but I want to really emphasize
Speaker 3: that it's not chest breathing, it's belly breathing. You have
Speaker 3: no idea what I'm talking about. Then you absolutely need
Speaker 3: to look into this further. There's YouTube videos, there's podcasts.
Speaker 3: Many of us are breathing incorrectly. We're not getting the
Speaker 3: oxygen that we need into our brains and into our
Speaker 3: blood flow that's actually going to help reduce our symptoms
Speaker 3: of anxiety, at least in the moment and in the
Speaker 3: here and now.
Speaker 4: So there's that.
Speaker 3: If it's money related, it does help me to look
Speaker 3: at the plan that I've made. So this isn't going
Speaker 3: to work for everybody, but for me to actually look
Speaker 3: at what are my goals, remind myself of some of
Speaker 3: the progress that I've made or the plan that I
Speaker 3: have in place to achieve some of that progress. Actually
Speaker 3: putting action to the experience, and feeling like I am
Speaker 3: able to take some version of control over what's actually
Speaker 3: within my control bear influence on what is actually mine
Speaker 3: for me, It helps to lessen what I'm experiencing in
Speaker 3: that moment. And sometimes some of my proactive ways of
Speaker 3: doing this is just being in my spending plan twice
Speaker 3: a month that corresponding to each payday, I am looking
Speaker 3: at the money. For some people, that's going to be
Speaker 3: more anxiety producing. So it's worth seeing. Can you just
Speaker 3: do this monthly? Can you just do a check in
Speaker 3: every six weeks? But for me personally it helps. It
Speaker 3: feels like a proactive measure to know I've got a plan,
Speaker 3: I'm taking control of what's within my control, and that
Speaker 3: kind of mitigates some of that anxiety for me.
Speaker 4: What about for you?
Speaker 6: Jen?
Speaker 1: I ignore it? And then I also have a bottle
Speaker 1: of fireball in the freezer and sometimes I'll just open
Speaker 1: it and like take a shot from it.
Speaker 4: This is real talk. It's what not to do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I am prone to do those things. Those
Speaker 1: are not helpful and they are not self care, especially
Speaker 1: the fireball one that I actually don't like. Have you
Speaker 1: know what? I actually have done that in the past,
Speaker 1: but like not as a self coping mechanism.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not actually a self care it's what you've done,
Speaker 3: but it's not a go to self care practice.
Speaker 1: It is something I have done. I don't want to lie.
Speaker 1: I don't want to lie to all of you.
Speaker 4: You don't have to tell the truth either.
Speaker 1: Okay, So in reality, I am going through a season
Speaker 1: of very heightened anxiety around money. I personally am not
Speaker 1: a naturally anxious person. I am almost chill to a fault.
Speaker 1: But Travis just took a job, my husband that got
Speaker 1: a twenty five percent pay cut, and it's so that
Speaker 1: he could like have one hundred percent better schedule and
Speaker 1: lifestyle and work life balance. And it was something we
Speaker 1: knew we could would do financially, but it was almost
Speaker 1: look like it was something that needed to happen so
Speaker 1: badly that we almost had to like leap before we
Speaker 1: fully looked. It was kind of one of those things like, Okay,
Speaker 1: this is the minimum threshold. Anything at our above this
Speaker 1: minimum threshold we can do. And it was at that
Speaker 1: minimum threshold, so it's like, okay, we can do this.
Speaker 1: He spent about six months looking for something in the
Speaker 1: it was the schedule that we wanted. So I am
Speaker 1: in a season of heightened financial anxiety from that change.
Speaker 1: Has anything actually come to fruition that my financial fears
Speaker 1: are about Absolutely not. No, of course not. So I
Speaker 1: have to use reality to tether myself back to reality.
Speaker 1: I guess tether myself back to myself and look at
Speaker 1: our bank account and look at our expenses and our
Speaker 1: income and in the ways that I can control it.
Speaker 1: I've also been experimenting with how we make money with
Speaker 1: frugal friends. Like we've always been committed to not wanting
Speaker 1: to use our listeners for profit, so we don't sell
Speaker 1: any courses, we don't do any coaching. Like it's not
Speaker 1: a bad thing, and there are so many great courses
Speaker 1: and so many great coaches, but it's just not what
Speaker 1: we want to do. So we've kind of been testing
Speaker 1: ways to make more money from businesses who have a
Speaker 1: marketing budget. So that's using my energy. That is something
Speaker 1: I can control and I do, but ultimately knowing like
Speaker 1: we're not going to go bankrupt, so I have to
Speaker 1: like keep reminding myself of reality and what reality looks like.
Speaker 4: M hm.
Speaker 1: So that's me.
Speaker 3: We have to pair our management of finances with our
Speaker 3: management of ourselves. We cannot to the exclusion of our
Speaker 3: own mental health and self care be chasing after personal
Speaker 3: finance goals. We cannot allow the one to sow eclipse
Speaker 3: the other, because yeah, we can end up very depleted,
Speaker 3: very exhausted, and just not good across the board for
Speaker 3: our mental, emotional, relational health. So all of these things
Speaker 3: need to be tethered together. And if that means that
Speaker 3: it's going to take longer to pay off debt if
Speaker 3: that means I'm actually going to choose to take a
Speaker 3: pay cut so that my well being and my experiences
Speaker 3: in family life and personal life are better, like we
Speaker 3: need to be able to do that. Give ourselves permission,
Speaker 3: find permission within the community. Help others speak that permission,
Speaker 3: you know, give space for others to speak that permission
Speaker 3: to us. But all of these things need to be
Speaker 3: taken into consideration. And again, if your mental health concerns
Speaker 3: are what's rising to the surface as the biggest concern
Speaker 3: for you, focus on that. Do that first, because it
Speaker 3: will have benefit on all other aspects of your personhood.
Speaker 3: You are still caring for your financial self if you're
Speaker 3: caring for your mental self, because thankfully that's the beautiful.
Speaker 4: Part of them going hand in hand.
Speaker 3: As much as each one could have negative impact on
Speaker 3: one another, each area of ourselves can have positive impact
Speaker 3: on each other. So just take care of yourself, and
Speaker 3: if you can hear our voices as that freedom and permission,
Speaker 3: please do so. And everyone, thank you for listening, Thank
Speaker 3: you for being a part of this community today. We
Speaker 3: do hope it was encouraging. We hope that we were
Speaker 3: all able to hold space together for one another. Wherever
Speaker 3: you find yourself, please know that you're not alone. There
Speaker 3: is someone else out there managing some very so smilar
Speaker 3: things to you, and please get the care and support
Speaker 3: that you need. You know yourself best, so take those
Speaker 3: next steps. And if one of your next steps is
Speaker 3: maybe leaving us a kind review, I mean that'd be awesome.
Speaker 1: Hold up, Jill, I know Goldie wrote this for you
Speaker 1: to read, but I am now reading this and I
Speaker 1: think it's for me to read.
Speaker 3: Okay, go for it, Jen. This is how you're going
Speaker 3: to care for yourself.
Speaker 1: This is how I'm gonna care for myself. This is
Speaker 1: how an Han eleven is caring for me. She has
Speaker 1: written a five star review of the show, but the
Speaker 1: five stars isn't what's important. It's what she's written, and
Speaker 1: she or they said not the Carabas of podcasts. We
Speaker 1: all know Carabas is for the elite or for a
Speaker 1: very special occasion. Well, this podcast is quite the opposite.
Speaker 1: It's for everyone every day. The article review format brings
Speaker 1: a lot of good tips, and I am loving the
Speaker 1: new format of occasional episodes, in which the hosts share
Speaker 1: their expertise without articles. I've learned a lot, but more importantly,
Speaker 1: gained motivation from this supportive and radically Middleish approach to
Speaker 1: personal finance. Oh my heart, I mean that review.
Speaker 4: Was for both of us. We both feel seen.
Speaker 3: But this is there's humor, there's encouragement, this is everything.
Speaker 4: Thank you, Ann han Levin.
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening. If you enjoyed the show, please
Speaker 1: take a minute to leave a rating and review. It
Speaker 1: helps potential new listeners know what our show is all about.
Speaker 1: And sometimes it can even contain cryptic inside jokes that
Speaker 1: other people may not understand. But you'll be scrolling through
Speaker 1: reviews and laughing because you get it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because that carabas was a reference to a previous episode,
Speaker 3: very short part of a previous episode.
Speaker 4: But y'all are listening, and you get it, and we're
Speaker 4: glad you're here and we're going to see you next time.
Speaker 1: Frugal Friends is produced by Eric Sirianni. So, for those
Speaker 1: who did not know the carabas, we also posted. We
Speaker 1: posted the clip on social media too, and and people died.
Speaker 4: That's true.
Speaker 1: It was in the Windfall episode.
Speaker 4: Hopefully we're not actually responsible for death.
Speaker 1: No right, no, not like that. They died like d
Speaker 1: ed dead. It's in the windfall episode. So what to
Speaker 1: do with a windfall? And Jill asked me a very
Speaker 1: personal question what I would do with a windfall? And
Speaker 1: I said, if it's a little bit of money, I'm
Speaker 1: going to go out to eat. And Jill was a
Speaker 1: gast that it might be Taco Bell, but it wasn't.
Speaker 1: It was Carabas. You just said, sit down restaurant. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: And because it's the fancy olive garden.
Speaker 3: Jen aimes high and the highest cheese aiming is Carabas.
Speaker 1: It is so true because when I'm there, I'm family.
Speaker 1: I don't want to feel like I have to get
Speaker 1: dressed up.
Speaker 4: Well, that's olive garden.
Speaker 1: Carabas is a fancy olive garden. You see. There are
Speaker 1: so many connections to the way I was thinking.
Speaker 3: That's where I said they are one and the same,
Speaker 3: that they could have a merger and they'd be the
Speaker 3: same thing. But we don't need more episodes about this, okay.
Speaker 1: But here's the thing. Carabas is fancier because it gives
Speaker 1: you olive oil with the stuff in it for your bread.
Speaker 1: It's not just breadsticks. Olive garden is breadsticks. And Carabas
Speaker 1: is like crusty Tuscan bread. You'll get this the bread.
Speaker 1: It's the bread and the oil.
Speaker 3: I do speak bread. I do speak bread with.
Speaker 1: A sun dried tomato, like maybe it's undried tomato, maybe
Speaker 1: it's just herbs.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but Olive Garden does the salad with it and
Speaker 3: you can dip your bread into the salad.
Speaker 1: Carabas salad dressing is fancier. It's got that creamy parmesan.
Speaker 1: You can't say that's fancier than like that. It is
Speaker 1: fancier than Olive Garden Italian it is okay.
Speaker 4: Well, you know.
Speaker 3: One of the reasons people love this podcast, I think
Speaker 3: so much is that we are two different people. This
Speaker 3: is not an echo chamber. So you will hear from
Speaker 3: Jen that Carabas is the fancier Olive Garden, and you
Speaker 3: will hear from me they are one and the same.
Speaker 2: End.
Speaker 3: For a nice dinner out, you could aim higher.
Speaker 1: I don't want to go to like Burns or something,
Speaker 1: because then I have to get all like very dressed up,
Speaker 1: and I have to take a tour of the wine
Speaker 1: cellar in heels and it's cold down there.
Speaker 3: There's a radical middle to be found. There in between.
Speaker 3: The expensive steakhouse in our area versus Carabas is different.
Speaker 1: And something else we say is that everyone's radical middle
Speaker 1: is different, and Carabas is my radical middle. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: just looks a little bit different than yours, Jill.
Speaker 3: If I come into a windfall, I am going on
Speaker 3: a yacht vacation. So enjoy Carabas, enjoy that night out
Speaker 3: with your bread and oil.
Speaker 4: I'll be on a yacht.
Speaker 1: That is a different amount of money, Jill. We're talking
Speaker 1: about two different amounts of money.
Speaker 3: We're talking about two different people doing two different things
Speaker 3: with their money. Okay, that's really what we're talking about,
Speaker 3: and it's why the people listen, all Right,