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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

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Speaker 2: my name is Noah.

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Speaker 3: They call me Ben.

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Speaker 4: We're joined as always with our super producer Andrew the

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Speaker 4: try Force Howard. Most importantly, you are you.

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Speaker 3: You are here.

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Speaker 4: That makes this the stuff they don't want you to know. Now, Guys,

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Speaker 4: we always include, just for ourselves a little inspirational or

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Speaker 4: tangential quote at the top of our notes, and usually

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Speaker 4: this is you know, a thing just for us. But

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Speaker 4: I suggest we read this quoteation allowed because it is

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Speaker 4: astonishing for this conversation.

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Speaker 3: Sure, should we go one word at a time? Round

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Speaker 3: Robin And I'm just kidding. I think I think you

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Speaker 3: should read it.

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Speaker 4: Ben. You found you're back, You're back from your travels.

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Speaker 3: I insist you should do it.

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Speaker 4: Can you do it in German?

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Speaker 1: Uh?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 4: No, almost anyway, this this quote is the following. My

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Speaker 4: measure of success is that the International Olympic Committee bans

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Speaker 4: everything we do.

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Speaker 3: Cool cool understood.

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Speaker 4: That is not from Dan Harmon, although that was a

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Speaker 4: cool conversation. That is instead from a guy named Michael Goldblatt. Uh,

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Speaker 4: the former head of DARPA's Defense Science's Office.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't understand what DARPA's activities has to do

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Speaker 3: with the Olympic Committee.

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Speaker 4: We'll see, we'll see. Shout out, shout out to our buddies. Uh,

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Speaker 4: who oh, who is that guy who just proposed was

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Speaker 4: the no holds barred Olympics a while back?

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Speaker 3: Remember you mean the steroid Olympics Olympics?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it was like do whatever you want. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 4: that feels like a billionaire move. It's no secret right

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Speaker 4: that humanity is known for pushing the proverbial envelope, and

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Speaker 4: we were thinking about this earlier. Right now, human and

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Speaker 4: technically non human research is inventing technology that human civilization

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Speaker 4: does not understand. Have we all seen the studies where

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Speaker 4: a bunch of boffins come out with something that they

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Speaker 4: are not fully cognizant of, like the AI figured it out?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well that. But I also saw some former tech

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Speaker 3: magnate it was either Google or Twitter. I want to

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Speaker 3: say it was a Google former Google person basically saying

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Speaker 3: that technology AI is getting so advanced that it's going

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Speaker 3: to eventually start inventing things and creating things that we

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Speaker 3: fully cannot understand. Yes, and that is when it becomes

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Speaker 3: majorly slippery slope and scary.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, And then we'll get to a point where perhaps

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Speaker 4: AGI starts inventing things that just help itself, right, quite

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Speaker 4: a logical move. Humans increasingly not part of the conversation.

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Speaker 4: But this is this is weird. We're on the precipice

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Speaker 4: of great discovery as a society and civilization is at

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Speaker 4: the same time leveraging new innovations, inventions, and discoveries to

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Speaker 4: experiment on individual humans. And I think we've all heard this.

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Speaker 4: You know, it always gets sold to the public in

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Speaker 4: terms of social and scientific benefit. Right we're doing this, Oh,

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Speaker 4: we're doing a gain of function research to eradicate disease,

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Speaker 4: not to build new diseases.

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Speaker 3: Right, well, I mean we certainly know even like you know,

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Speaker 3: under the Third Rete, for example, they would have liked

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Speaker 3: to think of their troops as super soldiers. And that

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Speaker 3: was largely fueled by amphetamines, which was a technology of

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Speaker 3: a kind.

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Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, And then we'd say, oh, we're pursuing so

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Speaker 4: called AI or quantum computing to create more efficient computational power. Oh,

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Speaker 4: we're doing this other research to make sure that air

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Speaker 4: and water and food stay clean. But to your point, Noel,

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Speaker 4: there's a dirty secret, right, there's a badger in the

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Speaker 4: bag and it needs a bath. A lot of this

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Speaker 4: research is coming from military funding and for military purposes. However,

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Speaker 4: it's sold to the public. That's often just a knock

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Speaker 4: on side effect. That's a nice thing to have.

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Speaker 3: It's often the case, right, we always seem to find

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Speaker 3: out about this kind of tech way later, or once

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Speaker 3: it has sort of either outlived its usefulness or become

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Speaker 3: perhaps dated in the military circles. Only then do we

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Speaker 3: start to see it sold to the public or the

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Speaker 3: public union becomes aware of it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and we are talking about super soldiers. We have

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Speaker 4: some stuff to explore about super soldiers this evening. Of course,

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Speaker 4: the concept became popularized again in the West with the

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Speaker 4: Rain and Fall of Marvel movies. Right, I think they're

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Speaker 4: going to come back. I think Doomsday is going to

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Speaker 4: be good.

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Speaker 3: People say that that Thunderbolts one's pretty good. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I liked it, And they said I'd sort of got

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Speaker 3: that Guardians of the Galaxy vibe, which was the last

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Speaker 3: franchise from that world that I found charming. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: I'm happy to hear you know what. It makes me

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Speaker 3: think of the ben As the movie, the Jean Claude

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Speaker 3: van Damn.

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Speaker 4: Movie Universal Soldier.

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Speaker 3: Universal Soldier certainly was a golden age in the nineties

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Speaker 3: where super soldier kind of stuff was very much floating

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Speaker 3: around the zeitgeist. And that is the one. There's also

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Speaker 3: a demolition Man another one with thes but that was

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Speaker 3: sort of a super soldier kind of sitch, right.

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Speaker 2: The Starship Troopers, like the Halo movie that was created

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Speaker 2: this concept of an entire exoskeleton suit that makes each

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Speaker 2: individual soldier and basically an army of their own.

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Speaker 4: Arguably Iron Man biggest plot hole in Marvel Universe was

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Speaker 4: that this guy can build suits whenever he wants, and

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Speaker 4: he doesn't bother to give Hawkeye a suit, you know

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Speaker 4: what I mean, kind of a move a little bit.

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Speaker 3: Guy's got his he's got skills, he doesn't need a suit.

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Speaker 3: What is his power? Perfect aim something along most.

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Speaker 4: It's not a power, it's just really good you guys.

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Speaker 3: Remember there was a bit in the Fallout games. I

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Speaker 3: want to say it was in maybe Fallout three was

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Speaker 3: the one before New Vegas, which I forget what number

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Speaker 3: it was, but there were these that's right, there were

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Speaker 3: these basically like super soldiers that died in their supersuits,

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Speaker 3: and when you encounter them in the world, they're skeletons

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Speaker 3: that are continuing to walk around in their supersuits. Yes,

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Speaker 3: very clever, very and dystopian and clever.

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Speaker 4: Yes, and that's we'll see, not just clever and dystopian,

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Speaker 4: but arguably prescient. Yeah, will super soldiers become a reality

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Speaker 4: the things we see in fiction? If so, what will

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Speaker 4: these future fighters look like? And what does that mean

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Speaker 4: for the world ahead? This is our cold, open, icy

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Speaker 4: icy cold, icye hot. Here are the facts. We've talked

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Speaker 4: about this before. We have to be broken records here,

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Speaker 4: but not broken arrows. All war creates an arms race,

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Speaker 4: War and conflict are huge drivers of innovation.

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Speaker 3: It's true. Well, yeah, another fall out line war war

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Speaker 3: never changes. I think I've always dropped that one, But

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Speaker 3: it's true because the fundamentals of war us versus them,

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Speaker 3: and the nature of it needing to be an ongoing

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Speaker 3: thing in order to fuel this military industrial complex and

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Speaker 3: keep the money flowing definitely never changes.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, We're talking physics, medicine, chemistry. You scroll through the

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Speaker 4: book of human endeavors, and the odds are that whatever

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Speaker 4: discipline you land your finger on, you will find that

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Speaker 4: some of the greatest breakthroughs in that field came about

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Speaker 4: as a direct result of war and the horrors involved.

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Speaker 4: You know, like a lot of stuff would have languished

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Speaker 4: in peacetime labs, but all of a sudden, your favorite

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Speaker 4: military or your favorite government pulls out all the stops.

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Speaker 4: They throw money at the problem. They push these things

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Speaker 4: into service, even when they are unproven, so long as

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Speaker 4: it gives a potential battlefield edge radar is a good example.

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Speaker 4: Bayonets are an example, horses, But of course, you know,

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Speaker 4: nukes for sure.

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Speaker 3: I guess I've got the Cold War on my mind

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Speaker 3: because I was just in Berlin, and I was I

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Speaker 3: went to the Checkpoint Charlie Museum and they had a

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Speaker 3: lot of weaponry on display there. I just found out

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Speaker 3: for the first time that the Berlin Wall actually had

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Speaker 3: like automatic, like unmissed weapons that would shoot people trying

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Speaker 3: to escape, shoot to kill, and not to mention, I

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Speaker 3: believe these things that were called cluster bombs that were

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Speaker 3: very good at wiping out huge crowds, but also would

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Speaker 3: leave behind unexploded ordinance that would cause problems for years

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Speaker 3: and years to come. So it's a great example ben

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Speaker 3: of technology that solves a problem but maybe isn't thought

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Speaker 3: through in its entirety in terms of the knock on effects.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, one hundred percent, because especially in the sensitive time

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Speaker 4: windows of war deployment, right, you don't have you don't

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Speaker 4: have the privilege of saying, let's wait till this thing

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Speaker 4: is one hundred percent and definitely good. You have to

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Speaker 4: do your best to stem the tide, right of whatever

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Speaker 4: the invading horde may be. And we also see with

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Speaker 4: this in step to that point, we see a long

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Speaker 4: long history of nations that push to provide their soldiers

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Speaker 4: with individual advances weapons or new material for weapons, better

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Speaker 4: and better armor horses of course shout out to the Khanates.

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Speaker 4: Other modes of transport, and drugs. I recently re listened

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Speaker 4: to our episode on the Viking Berserkers. Do you get

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Speaker 4: from that? Yes, that was the one where the idea

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Speaker 4: was that this somewhat elite fighting force got dosed up

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Speaker 4: on psychoactive substances and such.

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Speaker 3: The dude for whatever reason, just to freak people out right, right,

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Speaker 3: they're beyond pain, right, They're like the urlu Kai.

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Speaker 4: And this idea then of a super soldier, we could argue,

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Speaker 4: is surprisingly ancient. We could even say we see it

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Speaker 4: throughout literature in the form of Demi Gods, right, Hercules

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Speaker 4: is a super soldier not even fully human. And then

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Speaker 4: of course superheroes Captain America, Agent Walker, Bucky, the Flag Smashers,

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Speaker 4: Isaiah Now, I'm just getting you lost me a Captain

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Speaker 4: Isaiah Bradley.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think Achilles is a really good version of that,

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Speaker 2: because it is kind of the pursuit of everyone out

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Speaker 2: there attempting to create exoskeletons for you know, quote, super soldiers,

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Speaker 2: to create different technologies that would be worn by a

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Speaker 2: soldier that makes them better than human is to remove

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Speaker 2: that one those tiny little places where a soldier is most.

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Speaker 4: Vulnerable, the parable of Achilles. Heel, Yeah, I think I

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Speaker 4: agree with that, you know, and we see real world

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Speaker 4: examples too throughout history where better or superior training and

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Speaker 4: equipment can wildly tip the scales between otherwise evenly matched

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Speaker 4: fighting forces. Obviously, we've got a lot of veterans in

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Speaker 4: the audience tonight, and thank you for tuning in. This

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Speaker 4: trend never stopped. We could argue that the search for

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Speaker 4: increasingly powerful super soldiers only accelerates in the modern day.

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Speaker 4: And that's where we give our big shout out to DARPA.

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Speaker 4: What of our first audio episodes, what are the early ones?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. Nineteen fifty eight, the Defense Advanced Research

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Speaker 3: Projects Agency, or DARPA was founded as the central research

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Speaker 3: and development organization for the DoD Starting in the late

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Speaker 3: eighties and early nineties, they started really focusing a lot

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Speaker 3: of their energies on exactly what we're talking about today,

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Speaker 3: the idea of giving that edge to good old uncle Sam. Right.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Especially in the late nineteen eighties and early nineteen nineties,

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Speaker 4: they started, like you're saying, no, focusing on better in

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Speaker 4: their minds, better preparing soldiers, sailors, folks in the Air

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Speaker 4: Force four conflict, even if that meant in theory, upending

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Speaker 4: established precedents for war right, or sometimes even theoretically transforming

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Speaker 4: these individuals themselves. This is where we get this stuff

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Speaker 4: like the much lauded Future Soldier twenty thirty projects.

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Speaker 3: Have you guys heard the SoundBite from Trump where he's

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Speaker 3: kind of bragging about like oh, you have no idea

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Speaker 3: what weapons we have. We've got weapons that you wouldn't

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Speaker 3: believe that you don't know anything about. It was a

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Speaker 3: little bit of tip of the hand there, but I

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Speaker 3: thought that was very interesting and telling oh.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it's agreeable, right, like the public and the

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Speaker 4: private thing that's a conflict.

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Speaker 2: We'll get together and we I don't know if you

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Speaker 2: guys remember seeing some of the video I was going

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Speaker 2: to call it propaganda, the video presentations of the advancements

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Speaker 2: for the Future Soldier twenty thirty projects that were things

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Speaker 2: like headsets and heads up displays and other technologies displayed.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, this was stuff for like controlling unmanned quote unquote

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Speaker 3: weapons like drones and things like that, and this stuff

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Speaker 3: that was sort of tried it out or that's sort

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Speaker 3: of being you know, discussed. Here is more advanced kind

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Speaker 3: of almost like vrfication, right, video gamification of these kinds

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Speaker 3: of weapons.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, yeah, it's part of like the Talos project

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Speaker 2: and stuff like that, where it well the new one

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Speaker 2: is the ho project, but the Talos project that's trying

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Speaker 2: to build a full on exoskeleton like that every soldier

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Speaker 2: that goes out would where this lightweight thing, this tactical

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Speaker 2: assault light operator.

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Speaker 4: Suit that is cybernetic interface possibly aided by spark drugs,

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Speaker 4: which we'll get into, the ability to translate languages in

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Speaker 4: real time. And it is I think that point about

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Speaker 4: gamification is really solid. It is eerily like what you

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Speaker 4: may see in some of your favorite video games. Now,

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Speaker 4: the specific initiative Future Soldier twenty thirty, it did get

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Speaker 4: largely shelved by twenty fifteen, late twenty fifteen, but I

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Speaker 4: would argue it instead sort of decentralized to other more

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Speaker 4: discrete projects pursuing a narrow scope of the larger ambition.

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Speaker 2: And before it's turned right into the tactical Assault light

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Speaker 2: Operator suit project, and it got turned into the hyper

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Speaker 2: enabled operator project, which is this whole new thing that

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Speaker 2: is exactly what you're talking about, Ben. How do we

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Speaker 2: make sure we are the dominant side that makes informed

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Speaker 2: decisions faster And that's ultimately what SOCOM, what Special Operations Command,

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Speaker 2: was looking for.

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Speaker 4: I think, yeah, I'd agree with that. Yeah. This is

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Speaker 4: also not to say that the US is the only

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Speaker 4: crew in the game here past or present. We already

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Speaker 4: mentioned it. Nazi and Allied forces alike. World War two

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Speaker 4: administered drugs to create what we could call temporary super soldiers. Germans,

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Speaker 4: to your point, NOL proudly dosed their forces with pervetent,

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Speaker 4: which is a terrible name and also an amphetamine with

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Speaker 4: terrible effects over long term. Well, we got to talk

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Speaker 4: about the one that may not be familiar with a

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Speaker 4: lot of people in the West Russia and their heat pills.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, this one was new to me.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, tell us about it, man heat pills.

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Speaker 3: I believe a substance called two four dina trophanol got that,

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Speaker 3: which is actually used as an herbicide, a weight loss drug,

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Speaker 3: and also an explosive. Yeah, but if you take it, it

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Speaker 3: apparently keeps you from getting too chili in the brutal

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Speaker 3: cold of the Russian tundra. Yeah, or at.

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Speaker 4: Least feeling too cold right until until the effects wear off.

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Speaker 4: And nowadays, the biggest other name in the superhero or

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Speaker 4: soldier game, I should say, is China. And we'll see

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Speaker 4: why in just a bit. I think maybe we end

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Speaker 4: this here are the facts aspect by acknowledging something we

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Speaker 4: alluded to earlier. The tricky thing with a lot of

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Speaker 4: this research is that a significant amount of it remains

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Speaker 4: classified until after it's been perfected or deployed in combat,

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Speaker 4: because giving away the secrets also gives away the edge,

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Speaker 4: that's their perspective on any side of a conflict. So,

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Speaker 4: with the fact that we're working with publicly available information,

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Speaker 4: what we found paints of fascinating and frightening picture. What

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Speaker 4: will the next generations of super soldiers look like after

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Speaker 4: a certain point? Will they still be considered humans?

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Speaker 3: Or more human than human?

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Speaker 4: More human? Where's that from?

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Speaker 3: That is white zombie? But I believe that is I

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Speaker 3: believe it is the catchphrase of the company in Blade

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Speaker 3: Runner that refers to the replicants being more human as

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Speaker 3: a selling point, not as something weird and creepy at all.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, oh my gosh. And we may not even

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Speaker 4: need to get into cloning because there's a lot to

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Speaker 4: cover here. Here's where it gets crazy, gentlemen, I suggest

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Speaker 4: that we begin by grouping these potentialities into three rough

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Speaker 4: categories technological augmentation, biochemical augmentation, true story, genetic modification. So

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Speaker 4: we talked about exoskeletons, maybe we start there. I feel

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Speaker 4: like that's the most plausible thing to see deployed in

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Speaker 4: the near future.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, these you can see recent news even as of

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Speaker 2: February of this year, where there are photos being taken

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Speaker 2: by the US military specifically and the Chinese military as

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Speaker 2: well as I believe it is UH in Taiwan.

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Speaker 3: UH.

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Speaker 2: The military there, they are all putting out these photographs

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Speaker 2: for news stories of their soldiers in a version of

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Speaker 2: an exo suit, different types of exo suits. Almost all

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Speaker 2: of them though right now at least that are being

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Speaker 2: shown in all of these different countries are exosuits that

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Speaker 2: are they're used for moving heavy equipment, for loading howitzer shells,

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Speaker 2: you know, giant heavy shells into other war machines.

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Speaker 3: Is an alien right, sort of like that that loader

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Speaker 3: thing in the Alien Zone.

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Speaker 4: But less less of a footprint on it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's nothing like the big metal things or anything

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Speaker 2: like that. These these are pieces of different materials that

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Speaker 2: are like strapped to knees and to backs into arms

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Speaker 2: to help lift. So you it's literally to take the

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Speaker 2: load off of general logistics.

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Speaker 4: I thought you were going to say, take a load off,

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Speaker 4: Annie shout out.

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Speaker 3: To the band. I mean, yeah, it's sort of like

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Speaker 3: a plused up version of the kind of back races

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Speaker 3: that you'll see like ups people wearing.

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Speaker 4: It's in power yeah, it's imagine a suit of armor

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Speaker 4: that literally gives you super strength. In addition, it can

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Speaker 4: process or waste fluids, so no more having to stop

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Speaker 4: and pop a squat. It can supply nutrition and water

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Speaker 4: for limited time, and it can do a lot more stuff.

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Speaker 4: We owe well. The initial United States experiments in this

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Speaker 4: owe a lot to a four star general named Paul F. Gorman.

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Speaker 4: He retired in nineteen eighty five, if generals could ever

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Speaker 4: be said to retire, and he wrote this paper that

336
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Speaker 4: was incredibly prescient. He pitched the idea of what he

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Speaker 4: called a super true exoskeleton, and he said, this will

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Speaker 4: protect you against well the re And he was inspired

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Speaker 4: to look into this is because he found that battlefield

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Speaker 4: fatigue was a leading cause of injury and death for soldiers.

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Speaker 4: You know, think about it, You're carrying all this heavy stuff.

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Speaker 4: You don't know what's going on. It's already heavy if

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Speaker 4: you're on a regular walk, and now you're in conflict

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Speaker 4: and you can't lose any of that gear ideally, but

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Speaker 4: the wrong biochemical weapon, a fifty caliber bullet, it can

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Speaker 4: end you very quickly, especially if you're tired and not alert.

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Speaker 4: So his pitch was something that protects against all of this,

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Speaker 4: along with audio visual sensors, touch sensitive sensors, haptic sensors,

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Speaker 4: thermal imaging, classic predator sound suppression, internal climate control. Really

350
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Speaker 4: cool stuff and incredibly, I think again, incredibly forward looking

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Speaker 4: to describe all of this in the nineteen eighties.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but none of that has been achieved yet. It

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Speaker 2: sounds awesome, But he's describing the Iron Man suit, right,

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Speaker 2: I mean, basically it's like an ultimate ultimate exoskeleton.

355
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Speaker 4: But no flight. I don't think he ever proposed flight

356
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Speaker 4: for these That might have been a bridge too far

357
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Speaker 4: for him. The I mean, I love the point too

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Speaker 4: about the research that was in the civilian world to

359
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Speaker 4: your point, Matt, about helping people with mobility issues, right,

360
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Speaker 4: helping people who cannot walk gain more agency in their lives.

361
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Speaker 4: We're helping with conditions like multiple sclerosis. That's where that's

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Speaker 4: where we see a lot of the research really germinating.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. There certainly are like technological advancements in artificial limbs,

364
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Speaker 3: for example, right like that that do use a lot

365
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Speaker 3: of this haptic stuff in order to be a proper

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Speaker 3: extension of an individual.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but what we are seeing is a lot of

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Speaker 2: these companies that start out getting a grant to work

369
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Speaker 2: on the Talos project, which ran from twenty thirteen to

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Speaker 2: twenty nineteen. They the company start trying to make prototypes

371
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Speaker 2: for soldiers, but then they realize, oh, it actually works

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Speaker 2: better for Amazon workers, or for people a USPS, or

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Speaker 2: you know, people in car manufacturing. And so there they're

374
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Speaker 2: prototype suits, you know that specifically are to support the

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Speaker 2: back and the shoulders when you're lifting above your shoulders.

376
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Speaker 2: They can sell way more to those industries than they

377
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Speaker 2: can to the military, because the military ended up scrapping

378
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Speaker 2: the Talos project in twenty nineteen and they realized, oh, well,

379
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Speaker 2: actually these exoskeleton suits, they don't work the way we

380
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Speaker 2: want them to. Because they realized, this is a quote,

381
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Speaker 2: an exoskeleton requires power on par with a small motorcycle

382
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Speaker 2: if you wanted to do it the kind of the way.

383
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Speaker 2: In nineteen eighty five, yere is being described like a

384
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Speaker 2: powered suit, you need some kind of battery that's super heavy, right,

385
00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:08,520
Speaker 2: or an engine that's super loud. You don't want that. Also,

386
00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:11,720
Speaker 2: if it's an engine, it's probably got explosive materials on it.

387
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Speaker 2: So now your soldiers are walking around with a bomb

388
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Speaker 2: strapped to them. A sentis.

389
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Speaker 4: It's the battery weight problem. You know, you have to

390
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Speaker 4: find the cost benefit of what or the tipping point, right,

391
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:28,520
Speaker 4: the inflection point, at what point does the efficacy of

392
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Speaker 4: an exoskeleton outweigh I'm choosing the word perfectly. They're outweigh

393
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Speaker 4: the expensive weight of the battery, right, because it would

394
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Speaker 4: almost certainly have to be a battery, and solar power

395
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:45,960
Speaker 4: is not to the point where it could be dependable

396
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Speaker 4: in that regard. So even if you are US soldier

397
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Speaker 4: in a war zone now, as Reuter's notes and a

398
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:58,440
Speaker 4: fantastic article in twenty eighteen, you're deployed in a war zone,

399
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 4: you're bogged down by heavy gear that again you can't

400
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 4: get rid of body armor, night vision goggles already. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

401
00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:09,280
Speaker 4: this could weigh anywhere from ninety to one hundred and

402
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:13,439
Speaker 4: forty pounds, which is well over the recommended limit of

403
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 4: fifty pounds, and a battery is going to be heavy

404
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 4: at this point. That's again, that's so much to carry

405
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,960
Speaker 4: on a normal hike, right, yeah.

406
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,840
Speaker 2: But theoretically, if you are even you know, if you

407
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 2: are wearing that huge battery and you are carrying one

408
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,679
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty pounds around with you. Theoretically, what that

409
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:35,640
Speaker 2: exoskeleton suit would do is take all of that weight

410
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:37,679
Speaker 2: off of you basically, and it would be lifting it

411
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,399
Speaker 2: for you. But the best that they were able to

412
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Speaker 2: come up with all the way up until twenty nineteen

413
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Speaker 2: was they reduce the effects of that weight on your body.

414
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Speaker 4: Right to mitigate, now to completely solve, And that's going

415
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:54,360
Speaker 4: to be an important concept later on too. I mean,

416
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 4: this leads logically to the next step, the possible partial

417
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:04,000
Speaker 4: autumn of an exoskeleton. What if your exoskeleton has a

418
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:07,399
Speaker 4: limited degree of autotomy. What if we solve for the

419
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:12,439
Speaker 4: weed issue and you are now wearing a battle suit

420
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:17,880
Speaker 4: that automatically removes you from harm's wave if you're wounded

421
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 4: or immobilized. Now it turns into just a running version

422
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 4: of a car. How far does that go?

423
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Speaker 2: Would you know?

424
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Speaker 4: What I mean?

425
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Speaker 3: Which is sort of what those super soldiers in the

426
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,920
Speaker 3: Fallout universe are all about. Basically, people have died inside

427
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:36,320
Speaker 3: the suits and the automaton elements of the suit just

428
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,720
Speaker 3: kind of keep on going exactly.

429
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:39,560
Speaker 4: Yeah.

430
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:43,920
Speaker 2: But then for the what is the it's the US Armies.

431
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:48,639
Speaker 2: There's another organization that was looking at this combat capabilities

432
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 2: Development Command or devcom is the name of it. They're

433
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 2: looking at all that stuff, trying to figure out all

434
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Speaker 2: those things, and guess what they found.

435
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:57,400
Speaker 4: Guys, where did they find that?

436
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 2: Why would we do all of this to out the

437
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:03,399
Speaker 2: soldiers when we could just have a machine in the

438
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 2: first place?

439
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:06,640
Speaker 3: Exactly, Yeah, that's a question that comes to mind.

440
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, yeah, that's the immediate question. Would this automation

441
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 4: lead to a world where you don't actually need a

442
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:18,400
Speaker 4: person in the suit. And this gets us to another

443
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,680
Speaker 4: aspect of it. We talked about HID or a HUT,

444
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:27,639
Speaker 4: a heads up display AI partnership implants. So much of

445
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 4: recent warfare research and breakthroughs center on you know, not

446
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 4: bayonets proverbially, but communications, surveillance intelligence. If you were a

447
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 4: soldier in say the eighteen hundreds, were in the Civil War,

448
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 4: you would be astonished with the sophistication of wireless communication,

449
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:53,359
Speaker 4: the info that can be transmitted to an individual in

450
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 4: real time, automated targeting assistance, which is only going to

451
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:05,120
Speaker 4: become increasingly sophisticated. I mean, there's the realm of biohazard protection.

452
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:07,920
Speaker 4: You've got fall out of my head now, little imagine

453
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 4: a helmet that's a gas mask, a command center, a

454
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 4: homing beacon, a GPS, a multi spectrum light laser and

455
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 4: thermal sensor, and like a pit boys, like a pit

456
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:23,359
Speaker 4: boy in your head all at once. And I know

457
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 4: I sound like I'm doing a made for TV commercial,

458
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:30,399
Speaker 4: But wait, there's more. As Billy Mays was wont to say,

459
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,919
Speaker 4: what if this also gives you control of a drone swarp?

460
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:38,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's potential. So the hyper Enabled Operator,

461
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 2: which is a thing that is happening right now, that

462
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 2: is a program that SOCOM is operating for soft operators,

463
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 2: guys special operations forces. They want to have a soldier

464
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 2: that has all the things we're describing here, but they

465
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 2: want to do it with technology, and they don't want

466
00:28:56,440 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 2: to do it with like a suit to the wearing.

467
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 2: They just want like little sensors and stuff that you wear,

468
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 2: like bracelets and stuff across your chest that give you

469
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 2: all of those things you're talking about, Ben.

470
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, but it's still part of a suit. It's still

471
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 4: part of the uniform. The battle dress.

472
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:17,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, it's a battle dress, but it's not

473
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:20,200
Speaker 2: this kind of exoskeleton like the way we've been talking

474
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 2: about it before. Right, that helps with movement and all

475
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 2: those things. It's just it's simply to make the soldier

476
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 2: be able to sense everything. So like if somebody in

477
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 2: a let's say a squad, what do you call this, guys,

478
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 2: a group of soldiers operating together.

479
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 3: I think that's right. I think I think squad's appropriate.

480
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:42,440
Speaker 2: I don't know. Somebody on your team gets shot, right

481
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,479
Speaker 2: who's operating with you? You would get a heads up

482
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 2: display that the team member X got shot, and here

483
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 2: is where they are on the map, like where you are,

484
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 2: and you'd have a look down they call a look

485
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 2: down display where you actually look down and you can

486
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 2: see it, or you can look up and you can

487
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 2: see it on your display. Like that kind of stuff

488
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 2: is insane. And to be able to sense actual enemy

489
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 2: combatants on the field as you look out with these

490
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 2: kinds of things that again it fallout is the best

491
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 2: way to imagine it if you've been inside one of

492
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 2: those suits, because it looks to me like that.

493
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 3: What are the suits called in the game? Power Power,

494
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:22,680
Speaker 3: Power Power? Yeah, yeah, for sure.

495
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 2: So then imagine if you have all that stuff that

496
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 2: is in development right now in a real project, and

497
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 2: as Ben says, you've also got drones you've also got

498
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 2: the little robot dogs that are carrying equipment behind you.

499
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 2: You've also you know, you've got all this stuff and

500
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 2: you can control it all from your suit. That would

501
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 2: be astounding.

502
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 3: Well, and to the point about some of this stuff

503
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 3: sort of trickling out into the public, you certainly see

504
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 3: in safety systems of modern cars sort of like a

505
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 3: lower tech version of some of this stuff with like haptics,

506
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 3: like your steering wheel will vibrate if someone's about to

507
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 3: pass you on the left, et cetera.

508
00:30:56,080 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 4: Right, yeah, one hundred percent. Now imagine now and if

509
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 4: you are a cyber truck or you're Tesla Model three

510
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 4: also had a swarm of drones. This is where we

511
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:11,720
Speaker 4: see that hyper real time information loop right now, we

512
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 4: could probably, I would argue, we should record an entire

513
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 4: episode about the ongoing drone arms race. A soldier of

514
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:24,080
Speaker 4: the future ideally never really travels alone. Instead, this future

515
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 4: soldier theoretically would be orbited by a small crowd of

516
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 4: network drones, all reporting in real time and all linked

517
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 4: to the other soldiers. Swarm of drones maybe even capable

518
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 4: of launching remote attacks. It's kind of like how in

519
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 4: Marvel Comics falcon has his drone on his back. You

520
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 4: know what's it called red Wing? He launches. He launches

521
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 4: red Wing when he's flying around. So a future super

522
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 4: soldier could integrate drones in an unprecedented fashion, making each

523
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 4: fighter an actual quote one man me get this though,

524
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 4: what if all that did happen Despite the nasaers and

525
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 4: the people, the soldiers active, there were also invisible. I

526
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 4: feel like I have to say it in the silly ways.

527
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 4: It's so weird.

528
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's way better than just commanding a murder of

529
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 3: crows like you're able to bend.

530
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 4: Uh, it's too too kind. That's too kind and too weird.

531
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 3: Let's take a quick ad break and we'll come back

532
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 3: and talk all about it.

533
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 2: And we've returned, guys, before we jump in, just one

534
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 2: last thing on the suit, because I think the invisibility

535
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 2: thing ties into it. Have you seen images of the

536
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 2: rat Nick three combat suit?

537
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 4: Yes?

538
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 2: Search that up really quick.

539
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 3: Ooh looks like it looks a lot like Power Armour

540
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 3: Russian military combat suit and incorporates powered exo skeleton designed

541
00:32:56,560 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 3: to enhance strength, speed and endurance. Oh, it's got some

542
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 3: sort of like nano material hexagonal armor plating. And webbing

543
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 3: actuators little mini motors between the pieces of armor. Right.

544
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, so this is Russia's counter to the Tallos program

545
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 2: in the US, and these images are mostly from twenty eighteen,

546
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 2: when there was a huge publicity push for this, again

547
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 2: probably as a response to the Taalos program which ended

548
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 2: in twenty nineteen. It's just interesting to look at these,

549
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 2: specifically this version because of the way the hexagonal plate

550
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 2: armor plating looks. I think it's designed to look futuristic

551
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 2: rather than actually be operational and to function in the

552
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 2: way we want it to or like as a you know,

553
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 2: as a military mind. This may not function the way

554
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:49,440
Speaker 2: we want it to, but for these pictures, for this announcement,

555
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:51,560
Speaker 2: it looks like it does. It sures heck does.

556
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:53,960
Speaker 3: It's not that far off from like Tesla and their

557
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 3: robots that look away but in actuality are controlled remotely,

558
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 3: you know, in their current state. It's more about optics

559
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 3: than it is about actual function. There's an article I

560
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 3: think you're probably referring to, you mount on Forbes, the

561
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,840
Speaker 3: Hype and Reality of Russian exoskeleton technology for the Russia

562
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:12,840
Speaker 3: Ukraine War by vikrum Mittal, again from Forbes.

563
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a defense one article I was looking at

564
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 2: that's just really interesting. It talks about the arms race

565
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:21,799
Speaker 2: that the US and Russia are in, or we're in

566
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:25,759
Speaker 2: back in twenty eighteen there, and it is just it's

567
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 2: one of those things. So you just imagine a lot

568
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 2: of the stuff we're encountering is pr and it is

569
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 2: meant to send a message to everybody, Hey, we've got

570
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:40,280
Speaker 2: this brand new, amazing tech. But what if there really

571
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:44,760
Speaker 2: is stuff that both DARPA and every other research agency

572
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:49,400
Speaker 2: for every other country is developing that has potentially the

573
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:51,719
Speaker 2: ability to cloak in some way.

574
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:55,800
Speaker 3: And we're talking cloak like visually, not just from radar

575
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:59,320
Speaker 3: and certain sensors, or we're talking like predator style cloaking.

576
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:03,919
Speaker 4: Yes, that's a great analogy. All this sounds positively sci

577
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 4: fi or Harry Potter fantasy land, But when we think

578
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:12,319
Speaker 4: about it, true invisibility or the attempt to achieve that

579
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:17,280
Speaker 4: is only the next logical progression of camouflage itself already

580
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:21,279
Speaker 4: in ancient art. Please check out our Ridiculous History episodes

581
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 4: on those zebra stripes. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, ztellar just

582
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:26,399
Speaker 4: a zebra.

583
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:30,279
Speaker 3: It's pulled from nature. It's these particular patterns that from

584
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:33,799
Speaker 3: a distance create an optical illusion wherein like warships kind

585
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 3: of blend in to the horizon. It's not high tech

586
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 3: at all, it's literally paint.

587
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 4: Yeah. And now research into this concept of invisibility is

588
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:49,560
Speaker 4: made Bonker strides in recent years in public and private initiatives.

589
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 4: The everything we see in the public sphere with invisibility

590
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 4: is right now in what we could more or less

591
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 4: call the proof of concept stage, meaning you can see

592
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:03,319
Speaker 4: the principle or the principle at play. You could go

593
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:08,760
Speaker 4: to places like Canada's hyper Stealth Biotechnology. In twenty nineteen

594
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 4: they filed a patent for what they call quantum stealth materials.

595
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 4: It's bending light around a target to make it seemingly disappear.

596
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:22,320
Speaker 4: And yes to the predator question, this solves the problem

597
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 4: Arnold Schwarzenegger has when he faces the predator. Memory covers

598
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:28,359
Speaker 4: himself in mud to mask his thermal sake.

599
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 3: That's right to click his the heats the hates s

600
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:31,719
Speaker 3: hture exactly.

601
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 4: And then the predator is confused for a moment and says, whatever,

602
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:37,880
Speaker 4: my guy, and switches his sensors. I can't remember if

603
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:40,919
Speaker 4: it's the same film. He switches his sensors to ultraviolet

604
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:45,360
Speaker 4: or some other spectrum of light. This quantum stealth stuff

605
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:50,280
Speaker 4: and other related proof of concept ideas. They can also

606
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 4: bend ultraviolet infrared, shortwave infrared and if it works. Now

607
00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:59,840
Speaker 4: again to that earlier point made about propaganda and press release.

608
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 4: If it works, these companies argue they have created what

609
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:08,360
Speaker 4: they call a broad band invisibility cloak. I don't know

610
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:10,560
Speaker 4: if we have time to think about this, but I

611
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:14,840
Speaker 4: it feels important for all of us listening at home

612
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 4: to consider what happens.

613
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:17,319
Speaker 2: Like.

614
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:22,280
Speaker 4: We give the National Invention Secrecy Act a hard time,

615
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 4: rightly so because it is a violation of inventor rights.

616
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 4: But if you were the people in charge, would you

617
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 4: want a world where anybody can buy a true visibility cloak?

618
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:38,560
Speaker 4: How would you regulate that?

619
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:42,279
Speaker 3: Definitely one of the top wish for superpowers. You can

620
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:43,440
Speaker 3: do a lot with that one.

621
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:44,760
Speaker 4: In visit crime.

622
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:47,879
Speaker 2: You know, it'll have to be military grade kind of thing, right.

623
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:50,319
Speaker 2: It would have to be like with certain firearms in

624
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:52,440
Speaker 2: the US that you just can't buy them if they

625
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:56,360
Speaker 2: have certain specs, or you can't you can't own them

626
00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:58,800
Speaker 2: unless you meet certain requirements.

627
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:03,320
Speaker 4: Kind of have to be yeah, regulated heavily right until

628
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 4: someone figures out how to do their own homemade versions,

629
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:10,319
Speaker 4: you know, and there's a new era of terrorism. It's

630
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 4: it's weird, and it's a pickle that I think we'll

631
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 4: return to again and again. But to maybe you could

632
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 4: make the argument for us to really understand that we

633
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:25,880
Speaker 4: would need to do new tropics and cognitive enhancing substances,

634
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 4: just like the mentats in the Dune series. Drugs. Drugs

635
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:33,160
Speaker 4: are still so big. We're not talking about snarfing and

636
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 4: edible and chilling. I can't remember if we talked about this,

637
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:39,400
Speaker 4: but you guys probably heard. Vietnam is often called the

638
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:43,880
Speaker 4: first pharmacological war or the Vietnam War, not the country.

639
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:49,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's what because of certain substances that the

640
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 3: US military was consuming. But were they were they actually

641
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:57,319
Speaker 3: given these by the government or was okay, yeah, they

642
00:38:57,320 --> 00:38:57,960
Speaker 3: were given some.

643
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:00,120
Speaker 4: And then of course people were you know, hitting a

644
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:05,320
Speaker 4: tie stick and other more dangerous substances were being consumed.

645
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 3: But then say that gives you much of an edge,

646
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:07,920
Speaker 3: I'm curious that.

647
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:10,880
Speaker 4: I mean, it makes you graded appreciating music.

648
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:14,359
Speaker 2: Sure, And next, there was so much testing in that

649
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:18,440
Speaker 2: era of military personnel that had no idea what they

650
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:20,759
Speaker 2: were doing, and they would just sign you signed up,

651
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:23,480
Speaker 2: and you signed away your rights to not be tested on.

652
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:28,719
Speaker 4: So kind of gross and not great shadows of World

653
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:34,239
Speaker 4: War two. You know, painkillers, methamphetamine. In almost every historical

654
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 4: case of state sanctioned drug use for soldiers, the individuals

655
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 4: experimented on or dosed with this stuff, they encountered debilitating

656
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 4: consequences to their physical and mental health down.

657
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:48,560
Speaker 3: The line, not to mention addiction.

658
00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:51,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's one of the dangerous ones. Yeah, the vast

659
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 4: majority of these drug based initiatives, they weren't seeking to

660
00:39:56,680 --> 00:40:00,440
Speaker 4: cure things. There were temporary band aid solutions. Let's give

661
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:03,520
Speaker 4: someone enough speed to keep them running, to keep them awake,

662
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 4: Let's give them enough painkillers to fight through an injury.

663
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 4: And that's like giving insulin to a diabetic. It mitigates

664
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:14,280
Speaker 4: a symptom, it does not cure the underlying condition.

665
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:17,280
Speaker 3: Well, there's also diminishing returns, especially with the speed stuff,

666
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:20,279
Speaker 3: where you know you do need the sleep. It is

667
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:23,360
Speaker 3: a fact. So if you're staying up for days or whatever,

668
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:26,880
Speaker 3: you know, on amphetamines, you are eventually going to lose

669
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:30,239
Speaker 3: your ability to make rational decisions.

670
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:32,880
Speaker 2: Well, that's why you take the sleeping pills so you

671
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:33,520
Speaker 2: can get four.

672
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 4: That's how Elvis did it. Yeah, that's how Elvis did it.

673
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:40,319
Speaker 2: That's what remember we heard, we heard from several people

674
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:42,360
Speaker 2: who've written in the.

675
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:47,440
Speaker 4: That's exactly right, Yes, exactly, And this I think gives

676
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:51,840
Speaker 4: us another another look into the very dangerous side effects.

677
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:57,680
Speaker 4: Your body then becomes pushed past its natural limits. An

678
00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:02,400
Speaker 4: injury you encounter me indeed be worsened because you kept going.

679
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:06,760
Speaker 4: And then on the horizon the ever present threat of addiction,

680
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:10,160
Speaker 4: which haunts people even today. And we know sanctioned drug

681
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:14,719
Speaker 4: use will inevitably continue for now in some form. There

682
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:20,400
Speaker 4: will be increasingly sophisticated, more efficient or more efficacious, less

683
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:24,960
Speaker 4: dangerous drugs, but they'll still be temporary. It's going to

684
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 4: be like taking a potion in a video game, right

685
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:32,480
Speaker 4: that improves your speed or your strength for whatever the

686
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 4: window of time is.

687
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, you get a temporary buff.

688
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:38,400
Speaker 4: I think, a temporary buff. That's it. That's you nailed

689
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:42,160
Speaker 4: it all. And that means that the real golden goose here,

690
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:45,520
Speaker 4: the holy Grail is not band aid solutions. It's not

691
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:50,120
Speaker 4: changing what that warfighter in jest. It's changing the body

692
00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 4: of the soldier themselves. Genetic manipulation proponents argue this can

693
00:41:55,719 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 4: solve problems beyond the scope of drugs and technology. And

694
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:05,160
Speaker 4: before we continue, I gotta say this creeps me out.

695
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, I mean just thinking about instead of

696
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:14,880
Speaker 2: making tech to improve things like a soldier's hearing. So

697
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 2: one of the things in the Tealis project, which I

698
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:19,440
Speaker 2: thought you guys would find really funny, is that they

699
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:24,880
Speaker 2: wanted to give soldiers three D audio, like basically enhanced

700
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:29,879
Speaker 2: binurmal audio. But ultimately that's just human ears. So it's

701
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:33,800
Speaker 2: like having hearing aids of some sort. But but imagine

702
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 2: if you could just give somebody at their genetic level

703
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 2: superhering or super psite.

704
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:43,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, or like the ability to breathe underwater, you know,

705
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 3: let's take.

706
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 4: It, yeah yeah, or the ability to pee through your skin,

707
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 4: which shuts and skates do. Just you know, hear me out,

708
00:42:53,080 --> 00:43:01,400
Speaker 4: We're gonna do it at breaking. We've returned genetic improvements,

709
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:03,600
Speaker 4: all right. As you can tell, this is one of

710
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 4: the most exciting and perhaps disturbing possibilities, and it is

711
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:10,719
Speaker 4: way less sci fi, way less comic book than it

712
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 4: might sound. At first, guys, I was thinking about our

713
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:18,560
Speaker 4: series on real life superpowers, which I look back on

714
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:23,520
Speaker 4: with such fondness because we found We went into it skeptical,

715
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:29,480
Speaker 4: yet we found multiple instances of proven genetic abnormalities that

716
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 4: I don't love that word that granted some individual's abilities

717
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:37,879
Speaker 4: beyond that mortal kid. You know, these were like rare

718
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:42,400
Speaker 4: lottery winds of evolution. I remember seeing the study about

719
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:46,080
Speaker 4: this anonymous three or four year old who was absolutely jacked,

720
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 4: and they had to, you know, hide the kid's identity

721
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 4: because a three or four year old can't consent to

722
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:56,319
Speaker 4: being you know, displayed as kind of a freak show

723
00:43:56,600 --> 00:44:00,960
Speaker 4: little buff boys. Yeah, yeah, yeah, very much so. But

724
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:03,360
Speaker 4: without the body suit, this kid was just ready for

725
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 4: a goose suit. Y.

726
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:08,560
Speaker 2: Yeah not you you come on, you know it.

727
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 4: You know it can't be you, right?

728
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:15,160
Speaker 3: You know? It also makes me think of uh, that

729
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:18,840
Speaker 3: was like I win huff. We talked about, yes, regulate

730
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 3: his body. A lot of this stuff can be achieved

731
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:25,239
Speaker 3: without genetic mutation, just by like crazy amounts of discipline

732
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:29,680
Speaker 3: and mental manipulation of oneself and meditative kind of properties. Again,

733
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:31,319
Speaker 3: I think people are skeptical about that. But if I'm

734
00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:33,640
Speaker 3: not mistaken, that guy kind of did do the thing,

735
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:35,759
Speaker 3: you know with his mind he did.

736
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:39,600
Speaker 4: Yes, he is genetically not uh.

737
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:40,839
Speaker 3: He is not.

738
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:49,239
Speaker 4: Manifesting or exhibiting any sort of rare percessive trait. It

739
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:53,080
Speaker 4: is training and as you said, meditation, self regulation, sort

740
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:56,479
Speaker 4: of the way that black cab drivers in the UK

741
00:44:56,960 --> 00:45:00,960
Speaker 4: have managed to increase their spatial memory and indeed the

742
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:01,719
Speaker 4: physical size.

743
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:04,960
Speaker 3: It can unity champus with brain scans, right, mm hmm.

744
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:08,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, And that's why the knowledge is a crazy hard test.

745
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:11,920
Speaker 4: If you happen to have taken the knowledge, let us know.

746
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:15,320
Speaker 4: We'd love to pick your brain. We also know. Okay.

747
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:18,360
Speaker 4: For a long time, these were considered sort of genetic

748
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:22,520
Speaker 4: lottery winners, these one offs, right, these people have these limited,

749
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:28,279
Speaker 4: often narrow scoped, extraordinary abilities. But then the rise of

750
00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:33,600
Speaker 4: Crisper came and as it like before, it went to

751
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:39,080
Speaker 4: the public sphere. Honestly, militaries already began saying, well, you know,

752
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:43,160
Speaker 4: what if we found some of these this league of

753
00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:48,239
Speaker 4: extraordinary people, and what if we could transmit or translate

754
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:53,239
Speaker 4: some of those abilities to other people? Question one? Would

755
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:53,760
Speaker 4: these people?

756
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:54,480
Speaker 3: One?

757
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:57,120
Speaker 4: Would it work too? Would these people have to be

758
00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:01,120
Speaker 4: biologically related? Right? Would be a matter of turning a

759
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:06,760
Speaker 4: recessive gene into like expressing it. The goal was to

760
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:12,160
Speaker 4: create this in non biologically related organisms, in this case

761
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 4: human beings one of the favorites. All right, we know

762
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 4: this lowering sleep requirements makes sense. You know you're a pilot,

763
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:22,920
Speaker 4: you're a flying a spy plane for a long time,

764
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:26,240
Speaker 4: you're behind enemy territory. You know you're running and gunning.

765
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:28,240
Speaker 4: Wouldn't it be awesome if you only had to sleep

766
00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:28,840
Speaker 4: three hours?

767
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:32,720
Speaker 3: I just saw a thing. I think it was a study. Basically,

768
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 3: there are genetic mutations that allow certain individuals to function

769
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:40,880
Speaker 3: highly with very, very very limited sleep.

770
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:45,400
Speaker 4: I'm thinking specifically of some work published by the National

771
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:51,520
Speaker 4: Institutes of Health. Multiple studies have confirmed that there is

772
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:55,400
Speaker 4: a gene that causes people to naturally sleep less than

773
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:59,279
Speaker 4: about six hours per twenty four hour cycle, importantly, with

774
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:03,520
Speaker 4: no negati of side effects, nothing. You know, the world

775
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:07,120
Speaker 4: record for sleep days without sleep or time without sleep

776
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:10,520
Speaker 4: is something no one should attempt. It will give you hallucinations,

777
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:14,400
Speaker 4: it will have damaging health effects. But these folks, some

778
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:17,800
Speaker 4: of them with this gene, they need even less sleep

779
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:19,480
Speaker 4: per twenty four hour cycle.

780
00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:23,439
Speaker 3: And this was a new study that was published in

781
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:28,160
Speaker 3: the proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences genetic variant

782
00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:29,880
Speaker 3: is one of a handful that have been identified in

783
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:32,040
Speaker 3: people who don't need a lot of sleep. They're able

784
00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:34,040
Speaker 3: to mutation link to thriving.

785
00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:39,040
Speaker 4: With little rest ad RB one gene correct and there's

786
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:42,160
Speaker 4: a lot of research on this because it sounds too

787
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:45,160
Speaker 4: crazy to be true, but it is solid. So what

788
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:51,120
Speaker 4: if we could take crisper precise gene editing techniques and say, oh,

789
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:55,040
Speaker 4: let's find someone who naturally doesn't sleep that well or

790
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:57,560
Speaker 4: doesn't need to sleep that much at all, and then

791
00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:01,200
Speaker 4: let's find someone who also has increased bone density, right,

792
00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:04,720
Speaker 4: and then let's find one of those jacked toddlers, someone

793
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:08,840
Speaker 4: who has increased muscle mass, and we'll pick and choose,

794
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:11,560
Speaker 4: you know, just like a buffet or just like picking

795
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 4: the ingredients of your burrito at Chipotle, and then we'll

796
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:18,960
Speaker 4: put them into you know, the flower tortilla skin of

797
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:19,720
Speaker 4: another person.

798
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:22,759
Speaker 2: Sounds delicious, I mean.

799
00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:24,799
Speaker 4: It means, for better or worse, we're not that far

800
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:27,959
Speaker 4: away from a real life Captain America. But this gets

801
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:30,480
Speaker 4: us to the weirdest one. And Matt, I know you

802
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:34,160
Speaker 4: have read up on this as well. It's the tartar

803
00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:38,719
Speaker 4: grade question. As far back as twenty twenty, US intelligence

804
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:43,479
Speaker 4: officials said, look, they went public. There's propaganda, there's signaling here.

805
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:47,360
Speaker 4: They went public and they said, look, everyone, fellow folks

806
00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:50,400
Speaker 4: in the United States, the world entire the nation of

807
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:54,480
Speaker 4: China is conducting human testing on members of the PLA,

808
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:58,040
Speaker 4: the People's Liberation Army. You can read the full op

809
00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:01,759
Speaker 4: ed in Wall Street Journal. It's John Ratcliffe, who was

810
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:05,320
Speaker 4: the Director of National Intelligence at the time. He didn't

811
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:11,000
Speaker 4: disclose specifics, so maybe it was saber rattling until about

812
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:16,279
Speaker 4: twenty twenty two, when the PLA Academy of Military Sciences

813
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:21,560
Speaker 4: announced that they had successfully inserted a gene from tartar

814
00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:26,000
Speaker 4: grades into human embryonic stem cells. They did it. They

815
00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:27,920
Speaker 4: pulled a chimera and it worked.

816
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:34,120
Speaker 2: That's I yeah, yeah, okay, okay, I'm going to say that.

817
00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:38,520
Speaker 2: I'm going to say it. Okay, sure you did, sure

818
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:39,000
Speaker 2: you did.

819
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:41,120
Speaker 4: So you don't think it happened.

820
00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:44,279
Speaker 2: I think they did it maybe and it didn't go well,

821
00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:48,680
Speaker 2: but they still put it out because it sounds scary

822
00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:50,319
Speaker 2: to anybody who would oppose them.

823
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:54,080
Speaker 4: Now, and the ethical argument, which we'll get to, is

824
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:59,400
Speaker 4: they said, look, we synthetically created these stem cells. Therefore,

825
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:04,520
Speaker 4: it's not a problem everybody all other scientists, but maybe

826
00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:06,759
Speaker 4: we talked about why the tartar grade is such a

827
00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:09,080
Speaker 4: big deal. What were they trying to do well?

828
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:14,239
Speaker 2: Tartar grades can exist in places where most biological life cannot.

829
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:16,799
Speaker 2: But one of the reasons they can is because they're

830
00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:21,680
Speaker 2: so dang teeny and tiny, which you know. They they

831
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:25,120
Speaker 2: can exist under pressures like in outer space, like like

832
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:28,239
Speaker 2: the zero pressure kind of thing where humans, you know,

833
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:31,920
Speaker 2: and other biological things just kind of go pop if

834
00:50:31,960 --> 00:50:36,160
Speaker 2: you're out there in space. They can also exist way

835
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:39,920
Speaker 2: down at the bondo of the ocean where there's tremendous pressures.

836
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:45,719
Speaker 2: If a human could somehow transfer those properties into their

837
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:51,960
Speaker 2: skin and tissues and organs and all that stuff, then yeah,

838
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:55,040
Speaker 2: I mean that would be crazy. You could have humans

839
00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:57,040
Speaker 2: flying around in space you just need oxygen.

840
00:50:57,080 --> 00:51:00,520
Speaker 4: Then, also known as the water bear or get this,

841
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:02,880
Speaker 4: the moss piglet. That was a new one for me.

842
00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:05,240
Speaker 4: It's a cute little fellas.

843
00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:08,719
Speaker 3: When I toil boy and they're so powerful, they're like godlike,

844
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:11,359
Speaker 3: I mean, it's crazy. Do you think that they are?

845
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:14,560
Speaker 3: They like the closest thing to alien species with their

846
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:16,640
Speaker 3: abilities that we kind of have a little bit of

847
00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:17,160
Speaker 3: a line on.

848
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:17,960
Speaker 4: It's wild.

849
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:20,520
Speaker 3: And I know that they are organically generated in sure

850
00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:22,400
Speaker 3: on Earth, but man, oh man, the way they can

851
00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:24,480
Speaker 3: live in those dormant states out in space and stuff,

852
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:25,080
Speaker 3: it's fascinating.

853
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:29,960
Speaker 4: Smaller than a one millimeter, right, so small that the

854
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:34,640
Speaker 4: English measurement system had to go metric to explain that

855
00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:41,600
Speaker 4: takes a lot. So for a tiny guy, he is mighty.

856
00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:45,719
Speaker 4: There have been years of testing on this reproducible results.

857
00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:48,360
Speaker 4: You can play along at home with the right equipment.

858
00:51:48,600 --> 00:51:53,239
Speaker 4: We're talking surviving negative two hundred degrees celsius. Throw them

859
00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:56,560
Speaker 4: in boiling water and they're fine. It's just a jacuzzi

860
00:51:56,680 --> 00:51:59,560
Speaker 4: to them the vacuum of space. So the goal of

861
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:05,160
Speaker 4: the side, explicitly stated was to evaluate whether you could

862
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:10,600
Speaker 4: take a specific gene from a tartar grade and use

863
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:15,000
Speaker 4: it to create soldiers resistant to radiation. In other words,

864
00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:19,040
Speaker 4: folks who could survive nuclear fallout important note not a

865
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:24,359
Speaker 4: direct nuclear blast. They could still get mushroom cloud vaporized. Yeah,

866
00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:28,320
Speaker 4: but if they came in afterwards they would not suffer

867
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:34,759
Speaker 4: or they would have mitigated consequences for acute radiation poisoning.

868
00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:35,520
Speaker 4: And exposure.

869
00:52:35,560 --> 00:52:38,239
Speaker 3: And this is actually gene therapy, right, This isn't gene

870
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:40,480
Speaker 3: manipulce is not just like like a vaccine or some

871
00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:42,840
Speaker 3: kind of drug that people could be. It's not bandaid

872
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:45,319
Speaker 3: to your point, pen and this is like change. But

873
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:48,279
Speaker 3: have we talked about the ethical ramifications of this kind

874
00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:49,759
Speaker 3: of stuff. I know we sort of hinted at it

875
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:52,319
Speaker 3: as we've been going along, but it seems like it's

876
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:55,960
Speaker 3: real slippery once you get into changing people's entire kind

877
00:52:55,960 --> 00:52:58,799
Speaker 3: of genetic makeup. And to the point earlier too, about

878
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:03,000
Speaker 3: trotting out this technology before fully understanding the big rushures.

879
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:06,439
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a great point, and I think that's where

880
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:11,080
Speaker 4: we start to end. Because this transplanted gene, per these studies,

881
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:16,480
Speaker 4: if these studies can be believed, the transplanted gene, when

882
00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:19,319
Speaker 4: it exists naturally in the tartar grade, it allows that

883
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:24,120
Speaker 4: life form that moss Pilot, to create shielding proteins that

884
00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:29,480
Speaker 4: harden it against dangerous emissions like radiation. The team claims

885
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:34,640
Speaker 4: that this was successful that after transplanting this gene, the

886
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:41,360
Speaker 4: human embryonic cells showed a vast improvement toward radiation exposure,

887
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:44,320
Speaker 4: and they found a bonus power. They found a combo

888
00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:47,920
Speaker 4: meal at this Chipotle. Not only did the new cells

889
00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:51,840
Speaker 4: behave normally so no self destruction, no cancer, et cetera,

890
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:56,840
Speaker 4: but they also demonstrated accelerated cell growth. So if you

891
00:53:56,960 --> 00:54:00,600
Speaker 4: put these water bear man cells or whatever in new

892
00:54:00,600 --> 00:54:06,360
Speaker 4: blood cells, you could achieve something amazing, a clean transfer

893
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:10,239
Speaker 4: of that ability to a human subject, so long as

894
00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:13,960
Speaker 4: you don't worry about the ethics, because just like military drugs,

895
00:54:14,239 --> 00:54:15,880
Speaker 4: this is a minefield. Dude.

896
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:20,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, but when I hear the expression accelerated cell growth,

897
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:23,080
Speaker 3: doesn't that scream kind of cancer in.

898
00:54:23,160 --> 00:54:24,000
Speaker 4: A way as well?

899
00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:26,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like I mean in terms of like what is

900
00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:30,400
Speaker 3: how accelerated and what happens is over a long enough timeline,

901
00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:34,320
Speaker 3: you know, is it going to cause really really negative

902
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:37,000
Speaker 3: you know, impacts on the human on human cell growth,

903
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:37,399
Speaker 3: et cetera.

904
00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:41,960
Speaker 2: That would be freaking crazy. If you could grow and

905
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:44,880
Speaker 2: train the human in a third of the time that

906
00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:48,360
Speaker 2: generally it takes to build a soldier, right to have

907
00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:52,040
Speaker 2: a from birth to soldier timeline or something like that,

908
00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:55,440
Speaker 2: and especially if you could clone them right.

909
00:54:57,080 --> 00:54:57,279
Speaker 4: There.

910
00:54:57,800 --> 00:55:02,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, truly, Again, all of that stuff ends up

911
00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:07,359
Speaker 2: getting kind of it's super useful. But when there are

912
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:11,160
Speaker 2: machines that do the same thing. They're really expensive, right,

913
00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:16,319
Speaker 2: and you know, special operations forces have this saying like

914
00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:20,320
Speaker 2: the human is more important than the hardware at all times. Sure,

915
00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:24,440
Speaker 2: but ultimately, if you take the human out of the situation,

916
00:55:24,520 --> 00:55:27,919
Speaker 2: then almost everything we've talked about today is possible because

917
00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:31,359
Speaker 2: you just need integrated sensor systems and then you can

918
00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:35,520
Speaker 2: do all of these things, including the cloaking, including you know,

919
00:55:35,719 --> 00:55:40,960
Speaker 2: existing in and operating in other spaces to be resistant

920
00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:44,680
Speaker 2: to radiation, all of that stuff. It's freaky to me

921
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:50,520
Speaker 2: to think that we It feels like the militaries across

922
00:55:50,560 --> 00:55:53,720
Speaker 2: the world wanted this stuff because that was the most

923
00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:57,040
Speaker 2: viable way to have an edge when you're talking about

924
00:55:57,080 --> 00:56:00,400
Speaker 2: a singular soldier on a battlefield. But now, how with

925
00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:03,920
Speaker 2: the way tech has moved, it just becomes who's got

926
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:08,040
Speaker 2: the best mech which feels even more sci fi to me.

927
00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:12,640
Speaker 3: Noah, it really is. The stuff of it is, you know,

928
00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:15,279
Speaker 3: that's why sci fi is so important. They tend to

929
00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:19,360
Speaker 3: nail stuff way, way way beforehand. And I'm sorry, just

930
00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:21,600
Speaker 3: really quickly because I think I just I thought maybe

931
00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:25,720
Speaker 3: I was tripping. But cancer is about accelerating cell growth

932
00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:29,360
Speaker 3: it's just has accelerated beyond control. So to me, this

933
00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:32,799
Speaker 3: is like, yeah, okay, that sounds cool when you're describing MAD.

934
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:36,200
Speaker 3: This whole like accelerated growth, you know, period. But it

935
00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:39,920
Speaker 3: also seems like unchecked. Maybe there's some future ramifications that

936
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:41,359
Speaker 3: we don't know about yet.

937
00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:44,439
Speaker 4: This is why I argue it's mission critical to walk

938
00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:47,680
Speaker 4: through everything else aside, it's mission critical to walk through

939
00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:50,759
Speaker 4: the ethical concerns about this. That's what I meant when

940
00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:54,759
Speaker 4: I said ethical minefield. First, your point, noal society and

941
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:59,960
Speaker 4: humans don't know what those consequences will be. It's primarily because,

942
00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:03,560
Speaker 4: as you know, when you flip a gene, right, you're

943
00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:06,640
Speaker 4: not flipping one light switch, You're flipping a light switch

944
00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:10,320
Speaker 4: that affects a bunch of other light switches in unpredictable ways.

945
00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:15,480
Speaker 4: So improving bone density may lead to other less desirable mutations.

946
00:57:15,880 --> 00:57:18,800
Speaker 4: We don't know. If it just turns everybody's eyes green

947
00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:21,840
Speaker 4: and their hair blue, right, we don't know what will happen.

948
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:25,240
Speaker 4: We don't know if it leads to chronic medical conditions

949
00:57:25,400 --> 00:57:29,560
Speaker 4: or of course, to cancer, which could take time to spot. Second,

950
00:57:30,440 --> 00:57:32,760
Speaker 4: this is something people need to think about more often.

951
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:38,080
Speaker 4: We don't know whether these modifications result inheritable traits. If

952
00:57:38,160 --> 00:57:41,120
Speaker 4: a gene like this or you know, tartar grade gene,

953
00:57:41,160 --> 00:57:44,600
Speaker 4: for example, if it could be inherited, then the children

954
00:57:44,680 --> 00:57:48,560
Speaker 4: born with those genes have no right to consent to

955
00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:54,439
Speaker 4: this purposeful human experimentation. Their soldier parents signed up for it.

956
00:57:54,560 --> 00:57:58,720
Speaker 4: They did not. We see similar arguments alleging that medical

957
00:57:58,760 --> 00:58:03,320
Speaker 4: conditions have already been inherited due to exposure to toxic substances,

958
00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:05,880
Speaker 4: you know what I mean. So there's a heavy question there.

959
00:58:06,080 --> 00:58:07,560
Speaker 3: I guess. I guess with all of this in the

960
00:58:07,560 --> 00:58:10,440
Speaker 3: sci fi angle of it, my mind immediately pictures like

961
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:14,840
Speaker 3: server farm sized facilities with just like fetuses, you know,

962
00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:20,920
Speaker 3: in tanks, like breeding you know, humans for soldiering purposes.

963
00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:23,840
Speaker 3: You know, that's sort of the most dystopian version of this, right.

964
00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:29,360
Speaker 4: And we don't have any understanding of how this tactic

965
00:58:29,520 --> 00:58:34,920
Speaker 4: or this methodology would affect a soldier's reintegration into peacetime society.

966
00:58:34,960 --> 00:58:38,680
Speaker 4: Can superhumans have the same rights as non modified people?

967
00:58:39,120 --> 00:58:44,600
Speaker 4: What happens when some inevitable social media lunatic activists starts saying, hey,

968
00:58:45,120 --> 00:58:48,120
Speaker 4: these are not people at all. One of the brutal

969
00:58:48,320 --> 00:58:52,960
Speaker 4: sort of USSR Soviet answers to this would be to

970
00:58:53,040 --> 00:58:56,960
Speaker 4: also program in a limited time window of life for

971
00:58:57,160 --> 00:59:02,440
Speaker 4: these people totally, which is you know, evil. But I

972
00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:04,720
Speaker 4: don't know, there's so much more to the story, guys.

973
00:59:04,760 --> 00:59:07,160
Speaker 4: Do we have any concluding statements here? I feel like

974
00:59:07,160 --> 00:59:09,000
Speaker 4: we're going to hear a lot about this one, and

975
00:59:09,040 --> 00:59:10,320
Speaker 4: I look forward to it. Yeah.

976
00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:12,800
Speaker 3: Same now. I think this is a fascinating topic and

977
00:59:12,840 --> 00:59:13,920
Speaker 3: certainly ongoing.

978
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:18,960
Speaker 4: Well, folks, we have decided to consider this the beginning

979
00:59:19,400 --> 00:59:22,560
Speaker 4: of a conversation that can go in many directions. We're

980
00:59:22,640 --> 00:59:26,360
Speaker 4: sort of at the point of Schrodinger's soldier with this research,

981
00:59:26,680 --> 00:59:29,160
Speaker 4: and we again, we have a lot of veterans in

982
00:59:29,200 --> 00:59:32,120
Speaker 4: the audience. We are grateful for your time. As so

983
00:59:32,240 --> 00:59:35,000
Speaker 4: many of us know, a lot of new technology gets

984
00:59:35,080 --> 00:59:40,200
Speaker 4: rolled out before it's perfected, sometimes with disastrous consequence. We

985
00:59:40,240 --> 00:59:42,680
Speaker 4: would love to hear your experiences with any of the

986
00:59:42,720 --> 00:59:46,000
Speaker 4: concepts we explored today, and we would especially love to

987
00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:49,720
Speaker 4: hear your thoughts, your objective, honest thoughts on which of

988
00:59:49,840 --> 00:59:55,360
Speaker 4: these things may actually become reality and how they may

989
00:59:55,720 --> 00:59:59,160
Speaker 4: roll out. So that's it for us tonight. We're often

990
00:59:59,240 --> 01:00:03,400
Speaker 4: the doctific. The trickiest thing here is the public cannot

991
01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:06,320
Speaker 4: tell how far the real research has gone to the

992
01:00:06,360 --> 01:00:09,920
Speaker 4: earlier point about propaganda, to the point about national security,

993
01:00:10,280 --> 01:00:14,880
Speaker 4: to the point of classic military paranoia. Whether it's due

994
01:00:14,920 --> 01:00:17,360
Speaker 4: to what or more of these factors. The truth is

995
01:00:17,720 --> 01:00:20,480
Speaker 4: that a lot of super soldier research is still the

996
01:00:20,560 --> 01:00:23,080
Speaker 4: stuff they don't want you to know. So tell us

997
01:00:23,080 --> 01:00:25,920
Speaker 4: your thoughts. You can give us a good old fashioned email.

998
01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:29,160
Speaker 4: You can call us on a telephonic device, or you

999
01:00:29,200 --> 01:00:31,920
Speaker 4: can hit us up on the lines and the social

1000
01:00:32,120 --> 01:00:33,440
Speaker 4: needs thou might sip.

1001
01:00:34,840 --> 01:00:37,640
Speaker 3: Indeed, you can find this at the handle conspiracy Stuff,

1002
01:00:37,640 --> 01:00:40,320
Speaker 3: where we exist on Facebook with our Facebook group here's

1003
01:00:40,360 --> 01:00:42,720
Speaker 3: where it gets crazy, on YouTube where we have video

1004
01:00:42,720 --> 01:00:46,400
Speaker 3: content glor for you to enjoy, and on xfka, Twitter,

1005
01:00:46,640 --> 01:00:49,560
Speaker 3: on Instagram and TikTok where conspiracy Stuff show.

1006
01:00:50,120 --> 01:00:52,600
Speaker 4: I missed you on this one, man, because when you

1007
01:00:52,640 --> 01:00:55,440
Speaker 4: were out I would just try to like sum it

1008
01:00:55,520 --> 01:00:58,760
Speaker 4: up real quick. But you know you're nailing it. I

1009
01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:00,960
Speaker 4: think you're a choice sum on it. I summon demons

1010
01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:03,160
Speaker 4: with that with those words.

1011
01:01:03,600 --> 01:01:07,960
Speaker 2: Oh yes, shout out to Colonel Alex McCalman. McCalman, I

1012
01:01:08,000 --> 01:01:09,320
Speaker 2: believe is how you would say it. He was the

1013
01:01:09,360 --> 01:01:11,920
Speaker 2: chief engineer of the Tealis project, and you can watch

1014
01:01:11,960 --> 01:01:15,480
Speaker 2: a YouTube presentation that he put out on June sixteenth,

1015
01:01:15,480 --> 01:01:19,560
Speaker 2: twenty nineteen, titled Tealos Project Transition to the Hyper Enabled

1016
01:01:19,560 --> 01:01:24,760
Speaker 2: Operator SOFIK twenty nineteen. It is fascinating. If you want

1017
01:01:24,760 --> 01:01:26,760
Speaker 2: to call us about anything we talked about today, our

1018
01:01:26,840 --> 01:01:31,320
Speaker 2: number is one eight three three std WYTK. It's a

1019
01:01:31,320 --> 01:01:34,720
Speaker 2: three minute voicemail. You can say whatever you want. We

1020
01:01:34,760 --> 01:01:37,000
Speaker 2: do appreciate it if you give yourself a cool nickname

1021
01:01:37,120 --> 01:01:38,680
Speaker 2: and let us know within the message, if we can

1022
01:01:38,800 --> 01:01:40,720
Speaker 2: use your name and message on the air. If you

1023
01:01:40,720 --> 01:01:44,280
Speaker 2: want to send us an email, we are the entities.

1024
01:01:43,880 --> 01:01:47,280
Speaker 4: That read every piece of correspondence we receive. Be well aware,

1025
01:01:47,360 --> 01:01:52,120
Speaker 4: yet's unafraid. Sometimes the void writes back. Give us your thoughts,

1026
01:01:52,120 --> 01:01:56,640
Speaker 4: however brief, however long. Identify yourself as you wish given

1027
01:01:56,720 --> 01:02:00,960
Speaker 4: the content of this episode. Please let us know if

1028
01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:03,880
Speaker 4: you need to remain anonymous, and we will do our

1029
01:02:03,960 --> 01:02:07,600
Speaker 4: best to make it so. We also want to recommend

1030
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:10,880
Speaker 4: in the ethics conversation we had at the end here

1031
01:02:11,040 --> 01:02:14,560
Speaker 4: the following conference report, look it up the ethical and

1032
01:02:14,680 --> 01:02:18,840
Speaker 4: legal significance of super Soldiers. This was presented by the

1033
01:02:18,880 --> 01:02:23,280
Speaker 4: Center for Ethics and Rule of Law, Annenberg Public Policy Center,

1034
01:02:23,560 --> 01:02:28,440
Speaker 4: University of Massachusetts, Lowell. Shout out to Major Kyle Brown.

1035
01:02:29,160 --> 01:02:34,240
Speaker 4: This is an excellent summation of the serious questions at play.

1036
01:02:34,680 --> 01:02:36,520
Speaker 4: Let us know your thoughts, and hey, man, if you

1037
01:02:36,600 --> 01:02:39,880
Speaker 4: think screw it, no holds barred, Let's just roll the

1038
01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:43,200
Speaker 4: dice and see what happens to civilization. Tell us that too.

1039
01:02:43,480 --> 01:03:02,040
Speaker 4: Conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

1040
01:03:02,520 --> 01:03:04,600
Speaker 2: Stuff they Don't want you to Know is a production

1041
01:03:04,680 --> 01:03:09,240
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1042
01:03:09,320 --> 01:03:12,200
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.