Speaker 1: You're listening to Part Time Genius, the production of Kaleidoscope
Speaker 1: and iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: Guess what Mango? What's that Will?
Speaker 1: So?
Speaker 2: Did you know that the United States isn't the only
Speaker 2: country that shares a land border with Canada? Did you
Speaker 2: know this?
Speaker 1: I did not know that this.
Speaker 2: Border actually just came into existence in twenty twenty two,
Speaker 2: So I'm not going to judge you for not knowing this,
Speaker 2: but I did find this pretty interesting.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm curious if it's Russia, Like I can't even imagine,
Speaker 1: like what country is border with it. But I feel
Speaker 1: like the only geography I really know comes from playing
Speaker 1: Carmen San Diego.
Speaker 2: N'sa Yeah, I'm actually with you on that, So I started.
Speaker 2: I said do it rocapella the other day, and my
Speaker 2: kids had no idea what I was referring to from
Speaker 2: the the Great TV show of the nineties. But well,
Speaker 2: you wouldn't find this piece of land on most globes anyway,
Speaker 2: because we're talking about a very small barren rock in
Speaker 2: the middle of the Nares Strait. It's the waterway between
Speaker 2: Canada and Greenland, which of course is a Danish territory,
Speaker 2: and in nineteen seventy three, Canada and Denmark established a
Speaker 2: border through the Nair Strait to separate their territories, but
Speaker 2: that boundary was drawn directly through the Hans Island, which
Speaker 2: is about three quarters of a square mile in side,
Speaker 2: so really really small. Now, the countries couldn't agree on
Speaker 2: who should get the island, so they just decided to
Speaker 2: deal with the problem of this pesky rock at a
Speaker 2: later time.
Speaker 1: And it took them what about like fifty years to deal.
Speaker 2: With Yeah, yeah, and not without some drama along the way.
Speaker 2: So you go back to nineteen eighty four and Canadian
Speaker 2: troops set off to claim Hans Island. When they arrived,
Speaker 2: they planted a flag which Eddie Izzard once taught us
Speaker 2: that basically claims it like it's yours once you put
Speaker 2: the flag in, and left a bottle of Canadian in whiskey,
Speaker 2: which I actually found pretty funny. So in response to this,
Speaker 2: Denmark's Minister of Greenland Affairs also went to Hans Island
Speaker 2: and he replaced the Canadian flag with a Danish one
Speaker 2: and left a bottle of schnapps from Copenhagen with a
Speaker 2: note that read welcome to Danish Island. And this launched
Speaker 2: what the press has dubbed the Whisky War.
Speaker 1: So I remember learning about the Whiskey Rebellion in school.
Speaker 1: This seems much.
Speaker 3: More good natured than that.
Speaker 2: It does, at least a little more fun. So over
Speaker 2: the years, representatives of both countries went to Hans Island
Speaker 2: to put up flags and or leave bottles of alcohol,
Speaker 2: and so these expeditions were often strategic moves by politicians
Speaker 2: to get some positive press, you know, of course, during
Speaker 2: election seasons. And then in twenty twenty two, the two
Speaker 2: countries finally agreed to establish a border through the middle
Speaker 2: of the rock. Though technically Denmark made out a little
Speaker 2: bit better, getting about sixty percent of Hans Island. But
Speaker 2: the story hamenes that, you know that those rascals. But
Speaker 2: the story does have a happy ending because the foreign
Speaker 2: ministers of Denmark and Canada ended the war in the
Speaker 2: most appropriate way. They of course exchanged bottles of alcohol.
Speaker 1: Oh I love that, and I actually love that we're
Speaker 1: talking about national borders because they are so strange to me,
Speaker 1: like often they just seem like arbitrary lines on maps,
Speaker 1: or they actually have these like weird convoluted histories, so
Speaker 1: of course they lead to disagreements. But today We're going
Speaker 1: to tell you about nine of the world's strangest, most
Speaker 1: unusual border disputes, from a famous mountain that's in multiple
Speaker 1: countries to a survey accident that's still wreaking havoc amongst
Speaker 1: two US states.
Speaker 3: Let's dive in.
Speaker 2: Hey there, podcast listeners, welcome the part time genius. I'm
Speaker 2: Will Pearson, and as always, I'm here with my good
Speaker 2: friend Mangesh hot Ticketter and over there in the booth
Speaker 2: wearing a brick patterned T shirt and sipping a Seattle's
Speaker 2: Best coffee. That's our Palin producer Dylan Thinggan Meg. I
Speaker 2: don't know about you, but I got this one right away.
Speaker 2: Clearly it's a reference to the now defunct Borders Bookstore,
Speaker 2: because today is all about Borders.
Speaker 3: Oh.
Speaker 1: I love watching Dylan salute these defunct retail stores, right it's.
Speaker 2: Sort of his main thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, such a batter radio shack and Zar's and whatever.
Speaker 1: But great job, Dylan, So I know, like you, I
Speaker 1: loved Borders. It was such a great bookstore. Metal Floss
Speaker 1: obviously used to get great rack space there and they
Speaker 1: were so sweet ones. But did you know that Borders
Speaker 1: Bookstore isn't called that because these books take you on
Speaker 1: a journey. It was actually named for its founders, Tom
Speaker 1: and Lewis Borders.
Speaker 2: Tom and Lewis Borders, sort of like Check and Daniel
Speaker 2: Circuit City, right, the founders of Circuit City exactly.
Speaker 1: Speaking of which, let's get into our next disputed border.
Speaker 1: So fans of mountain climbing might be familiar with this
Speaker 1: place because the moment it was first submitted in seventeen
Speaker 1: eighty six is often called the birth of modern mountaineering.
Speaker 1: And I'm talking about the tallest mountain in Western Europe.
Speaker 1: It stands at fifteen thousand, seven hundred and seventy six
Speaker 1: feet high. It is Mont Blanc in the Alps, but
Speaker 1: some folks know it by its Italian name Il Bianco,
Speaker 1: because it is right on the border of France and Italy,
Speaker 1: causing some issues over where exactly that boundary bisecxs of
Speaker 1: the mountain.
Speaker 2: I mean, I could see that being tricky, mountains aren't
Speaker 2: exactly great for making straight lines.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, you see that problem in the
Speaker 1: Himalias with India and China and Timba and like all
Speaker 1: these other places. But in this case, the problem comes
Speaker 1: down to two conflicting treaties so after defeating the Savoy
Speaker 1: kings in seventeen ninety six, Napoleon Bonaparte signed the Carrasco Armistice,
Speaker 1: which gave him Savoy and nice including a nice, big
Speaker 1: chunk of mont Blanc. Now it's no surprise the French
Speaker 1: preferred this treaty, But the Italians like to remind them
Speaker 1: that all of Napoleon's treaties have since been reversed by
Speaker 1: the Congress of Vienna in eighteen fourteen, which reorganized European
Speaker 1: politics in the wake of his downfall. And they cite
Speaker 1: this eighteen fifty eight agreement between France and Italy, which
Speaker 1: granted them a much more generous border.
Speaker 2: And how serious is this dispute, Like on a scale
Speaker 2: of swapping bottles of booze on a rock to ten.
Speaker 1: Maybe like a five, Like we're talking about an area
Speaker 1: that's less than half a square kilometer. Yet they've been
Speaker 1: trying and failing to resolve the disagreement since eighteen fifty eight,
Speaker 1: and things have gone a little tense in twenty fifteen
Speaker 1: when a local French mayor made moves to close a
Speaker 1: gate that led to the Gigante or Giant Glacier, which
Speaker 1: is on the Italian side of the mountain, and this
Speaker 1: limited access to one of Italy's points of pride, Fujo Torino.
Speaker 1: So the French claimed it was a matter of protecting
Speaker 1: the environment and keeping climber safe, but Italian authorities got
Speaker 1: really angry. Another issue popped up in twenty nineteen when
Speaker 1: France implemented wildlife protection measures that included the area beneath
Speaker 1: this point. Again, this was considered an overstep of Italy's boundaries,
Speaker 1: and as of today, the dispute is still ongoing, so
Speaker 1: we kind of have to wait and see what happens.
Speaker 2: You know, it's hard to think of France and Italy
Speaker 2: fighting when they actually could just be sitting down to
Speaker 2: exchange plates of their equally delicious cuisines.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love that idea.
Speaker 1: And I would also like to attend that meeting for sure.
Speaker 2: All right. Next up, we have the Machaia Seal Island.
Speaker 2: This is a fifteen acre island that's equidistant from the
Speaker 2: US and Canadian coast. Now specifically, it's about twelve miles
Speaker 2: from both Cutler, Maine and Nova Scotia's Grand Munan Island.
Speaker 2: Depending on who you ask, it belongs to the US
Speaker 2: or Canada.
Speaker 1: And is there anything they're worth arguing over.
Speaker 2: Well, it depends on how you feel about puffa mango.
Speaker 2: How do you feel about puffins? I am pro puffin.
Speaker 2: All right, Well, that's about all there is on this
Speaker 2: island in terms of inhabitants. But there's also a lighthouse
Speaker 2: which belongs to Canada, so the US refuses to recognize it.
Speaker 1: So what happens that like Americans who happen to land
Speaker 1: on this island just kind of walk past the lighthouse
Speaker 1: and ignore it.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I mean, we don't talk about the lighthouse mango.
Speaker 2: But according to my research, it really is hard to
Speaker 2: justify claiming this place as American. So in sixteen twenty one,
Speaker 2: the charter that established Nova Scotia as a British colony,
Speaker 2: it specified that it would include land that quote is
Speaker 2: within six leagues of any part of the coast. Six
Speaker 2: leagues is about eighteen miles, so that would include Machia
Speaker 2: Seal Island. But the American government prefers this seventeen eighty
Speaker 2: three Treaty of Paris, which ended the Revolutionary War and
Speaker 2: granted them quote all islands within twenty leagues of any
Speaker 2: part of the shores of the United States. Now, the
Speaker 2: problem is that with this specific treaty, it excludes any
Speaker 2: islands belonging to Nova Scotia.
Speaker 1: That is so crazy that all these treaties got ridden
Speaker 1: without checking to see if there are other treaties that
Speaker 1: might you know, like for that a conflict.
Speaker 2: You got to check all your treaties, right.
Speaker 1: Well, if you go by the treaty that came first,
Speaker 1: it's clear this island belongs to Canada. But I don't
Speaker 1: get it if there's not much except puffins, Like, why
Speaker 1: does the US even care about this area?
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, don't devalue puffins. I just want
Speaker 2: to go ahead and say that on behalf of them.
Speaker 2: But also, the island sits in a region of water
Speaker 2: known as the Gray Zone, and whoever controls the island
Speaker 2: also controls that part of the ocean. So both US
Speaker 2: and Canadian workers fish for lobsters in those waters, and
Speaker 2: as climate change pushes lobsters further north, being able to
Speaker 2: fish there becomes more and more important.
Speaker 1: Which makes sense. And is there any chance of this
Speaker 1: getting results soon?
Speaker 2: Well, the conversation pops up from time to time, but
Speaker 2: it's an issue that just doesn't have a lot of
Speaker 2: political momentum. Of course, there's another question that comes up
Speaker 2: when you look at the history here, like was any
Speaker 2: part of the island re Britons to give? And in
Speaker 2: this case, it's believed that the Passamaquaddi nation was the
Speaker 2: first to use the island. But of course they're conspicuously
Speaker 2: absent from these conversations. And in fact, the name Machayas
Speaker 2: is a native word meaning bad little falls.
Speaker 1: What a weird name for Alan, but I like it well.
Speaker 1: Our next dispute goes beyond islands. In fact, it's almost underwater,
Speaker 1: and I'm talking about the Minerva Atoll in the Pacific Ocean.
Speaker 1: So these are circular coral reefs. They rise barely a
Speaker 1: couple of feet out of the water, and they may
Speaker 1: be part of Tonga, which is about two hundred and
Speaker 1: sixty miles away, or Fiji, which is around four hundred
Speaker 1: and fifty miles away. Now, the two countries have been
Speaker 1: disputing about this.
Speaker 2: Area for decades, all right, I feel like there has
Speaker 2: to be a lot more to this story. So why
Speaker 2: would either country want to claim a couple of partially
Speaker 2: submerged reefs.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have that same question, And the truth is
Speaker 1: there are a few reasons. So these atolls are located
Speaker 1: in the Southern Pacific, and it's in an area known
Speaker 1: for its deposits of valuable minerals. So this includes things
Speaker 1: like cobalt and copper, manganese, even nickel, so it is
Speaker 1: an area that could be worth hundreds of millions of
Speaker 1: dollars in mining licenses. There are also these cultural considerations, right,
Speaker 1: so like both Tongans and Fijians have been fishing in
Speaker 1: the region for a very very long time. But we
Speaker 1: can actually trace the dispute back to a specific year.
Speaker 1: This goes back to nineteen seventy one and one man
Speaker 1: it was a wealthy real estate developer. His name is
Speaker 1: Michael Oliver. He was actually born in Lithuania but lived
Speaker 1: in Las Vegas at the time, and he had this
Speaker 1: idea to create a man made island on top of
Speaker 1: the northernmost reef and to turn it into his ideal
Speaker 1: libertarian nation. Now, Oliver and a crew dumped massive quantities
Speaker 1: of sand onto the reef, and then they added a
Speaker 1: stone tower and planted a flag for their newly founded
Speaker 1: Republic of Minerva. And they even had some coins minted.
Speaker 2: Just nuts because you know, just because you pile up
Speaker 2: some sand and meant some coins. That doesn't mean you
Speaker 2: have a nation, right or does it?
Speaker 1: It is wild. Allegedly, Oliver expected to have thirty thousand
Speaker 1: settlers join him in his republic, which might have given
Speaker 1: him more credence, but as you might expect, the nations
Speaker 1: near the reefs were not impressed by his scheme. In
Speaker 1: June of nineteen seventy two, the King of Tonga claimed
Speaker 1: a twelve mile area surrounding the reefs as traditional fishing grounds,
Speaker 1: and he sent one hundred troops to tear apart all
Speaker 1: of our structures, and then he had a band played
Speaker 1: the Tongan national anthem there so, and then soon the
Speaker 1: Intergovernmental South Pacific Forum, which includes heads of states from Fiji, Nauru,
Speaker 1: Western Samoa, also the Cook Islands, they issued this official
Speaker 1: announcement and it recognized Tonga's historical association with these reefs,
Speaker 1: and you know that their government's continuing interest in the
Speaker 1: area sort of pre supposed all this stuff. But the
Speaker 1: wording was intentional in not recognized saying any official sovereignty
Speaker 1: over the reefs. So Oliver was thwarted. But you know,
Speaker 1: they left the question open. And when the UN Convention
Speaker 1: on the Law of the Sea went into effect in
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety four. It actually established exclusive economic zones extending
Speaker 1: two hundred nautical miles from each nation's coastline. So authorities
Speaker 1: in Tonga believe that gives them a certain claim over
Speaker 1: the reefs. But under that treaty, Fiji and Tonga's economic
Speaker 1: zones overlap, which of course complicates matters.
Speaker 2: So how has that dispute actually played out between Fiji
Speaker 2: and Tonga.
Speaker 1: There have been a few incidents over the years, like
Speaker 1: one time Fijians tore down some navigational equipment that was
Speaker 1: put up by Tongans. In twenty fourteen, Tonga's land minister
Speaker 1: publicly suggested giving up the Minerva Reefs in exchange for
Speaker 1: Fiji's Lao Islands, which actually make up half of Fiji's
Speaker 1: land mass, so you know, they didn't really take the
Speaker 1: idea seriously. Both countries have filed complaints and counterclaims with
Speaker 1: international authorities, but as of right now, it seems like
Speaker 1: there's no resolution in sight. But one thing that is
Speaker 1: not disputed the fact that we have to take a
Speaker 1: quick break, so we will be back with more weird
Speaker 1: border stories in just a minute.
Speaker 3: Don't go anywhere. Welcome back to Part Time Genius.
Speaker 1: If you enjoy the show, be sure to subscribe on
Speaker 1: your favorite podcast app, and for extra credit, leave us
Speaker 1: a nice rating and review. The last review we have
Speaker 1: is from Declan, who says, quote The Pirate One is
Speaker 1: my favorite. I've been listening to it for six months,
Speaker 1: as in read listening to it, which I love that
Speaker 1: so much, Declan. If you write to our high geniuses
Speaker 1: at gmail dot com account and send me your address,
Speaker 1: I will draw you a picture of pirate or maybe
Speaker 1: just a parrot that belongs on a pirate's shoulder, and
Speaker 1: I'll you on a postcard.
Speaker 2: That's pretty great, all right, Mango. So for our next fact,
Speaker 2: I've got a question for you. Have you ever wondered
Speaker 2: how people back in the day were able to calculate
Speaker 2: and mark state borders without any of the modern technology
Speaker 2: we have today.
Speaker 1: I have definitely thought about this because I grew up
Speaker 1: in Delaware and in some of my friend's backyards, when
Speaker 1: you'd be out playing in the woods, you could actually
Speaker 1: walk into Pennsylvania. But we didn't know where that border was. Like.
Speaker 1: We just knew that if you wandered back a bit,
Speaker 1: you were actually over the line.
Speaker 2: Oh wow. Well, borders, it turns out, can be pretty
Speaker 2: messy things like consider the Georgia Tennessee border. For instance,
Speaker 2: in seventeen ninety six, Congress officially set Tennessee's southern border
Speaker 2: at the thirty fifth parallel, and in eighteen eighteen, surveyors
Speaker 2: accidentally marked the boundary about a mile south of where
Speaker 2: it was supposed to be. And that's thanks to these
Speaker 2: typo laden labels that they were consulting. Plus they were
Speaker 2: using equipment that was outdated even by eighteen eighteen standards.
Speaker 2: And in fact, to this day, Georgia and Tennessee officials
Speaker 2: both agree that that's what happened here. But they don't
Speaker 2: agree on is whether anything should actually be done about it.
Speaker 1: That's really funny and it's amazing that they agree. But
Speaker 1: if it's just off by a mile, like, what is
Speaker 1: the big deal?
Speaker 2: Well? Water, actually, so the main point of contention is
Speaker 2: Lake Lanier, which is in the northwest corner of Georgia
Speaker 2: but under Tennessee's jurisdiction. So the lake is fed by
Speaker 2: the Tennessee River and it provides drinking water. So Georgian's
Speaker 2: attempts to claim it usually happened during drought time. So
Speaker 2: obviously water rights are very serious business, but there have
Speaker 2: been some goofy moments along the way. So like in
Speaker 2: two thousand and eight, officials from Chattanooga snarkily sent Tennessee
Speaker 2: water to Georgia's legislature. This was in reaction to their complaints,
Speaker 2: and Georgia responded by foe arresting the crew who delivered it.
Speaker 2: So the dispute resurfaced in twenty thirteen when Georgia lawmakers
Speaker 2: authorized their state attorney general to sue Tennessee for access
Speaker 2: to drinking water in the area. In response to that,
Speaker 2: Tennessee state Representative Jason Powell was quoted as saying, as
Speaker 2: far as I'm concerned, Georgia can keep its greedy hands
Speaker 2: and it's thirsty mounts away from our water.
Speaker 1: Thirsty mouths.
Speaker 2: That's right, some of those thirsty mounts. So it's a
Speaker 2: difficult problem to solve it as a state border dispute.
Speaker 2: The place for it is probably the Supreme Court, but
Speaker 2: the issue actually hasn't had enough traction to get there.
Speaker 1: I love how like theatrical some of this stuff is right,
Speaker 1: like Tongo sending an army, like like Georgia fake arresting
Speaker 1: these people for sending water over like it's so ridiculous wild.
Speaker 1: It also seems like this recurring theme with these disputes,
Speaker 1: like people are upset, but you know, it gets stuck
Speaker 1: in this stasis, right, like it doesn't seem to move forward. Okay, Well,
Speaker 1: so our next border conundrum involves a kind of territory
Speaker 1: known as an enclave. So this is a sovereign territory
Speaker 1: it's fully surrounded by in other countries. So if you
Speaker 1: think about the Vatican, that's actually a good example. It
Speaker 1: is its own sovereign state, but it's totally enclosed by Italy.
Speaker 1: And this kind of thing used to be way more
Speaker 1: common before the era of modern map making and nation states,
Speaker 1: but they're there's still plenty of them around the world.
Speaker 1: And there are even second order enclaves, And I'm curious,
Speaker 1: do you know what those are, just like lesser enclaves,
Speaker 1: Like is there an enclave ranking system or something? There
Speaker 1: might be, but that's not what I'm talking about. So
Speaker 1: a second order enclave is an enclave within another enclave.
Speaker 1: And in the year twenty fifteen, the world's last third
Speaker 1: order enclave came to an end.
Speaker 2: Well, and I do know what those are. Those are
Speaker 2: enclaves within an enclave, within an enclave, obviously.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I'm talking about this place called Dala Kagabari,
Speaker 1: and this was one point seven acres of Indian land
Speaker 1: and it was surrounded by this Bangladeshi village, which was
Speaker 1: surrounded by an Indian village which was all contained within
Speaker 1: the nation of Bangladesh. So Smithsonian Magazine actually referred to
Speaker 1: this as the Turduccan of border disputes, which is kind
Speaker 1: of amazing.
Speaker 2: That is a pretty great term. So how on earth
Speaker 2: does something like this happen?
Speaker 1: I mean, the history is really complicated, and often in
Speaker 1: a way that made many people's lives worse. It would
Speaker 1: obviously take hours to tell the whole story of India
Speaker 1: and Bangladesh and the conflicts around those borders, but suffice
Speaker 1: it to say, by twenty eleven, India and Bangladesh had
Speaker 1: over one hundred and sixty enclaves that they began the
Speaker 1: process of exchanging. Now, no one knows exactly how this
Speaker 1: all came to be. There are some incredible legends about this.
Speaker 1: Some people blame generations of maharajas who were gambling land
Speaker 1: away or there is one theory about a drunk colonial
Speaker 1: brit who knocked ink onto a map, But the reality
Speaker 1: is that they're probably the result of the Mogul Empire's
Speaker 1: expansion attempts, right, and the locals suffered for it. So
Speaker 1: imagine if you were traveling to the next town over
Speaker 1: and that actually meant you were crossing national borders. So
Speaker 1: because of this, people had trouble exercising basic human rights right,
Speaker 1: Like it was hard for people to get ideas, it
Speaker 1: was hard for them to get education. It was really
Speaker 1: really complicated. But trying to solve this dispute is also difficult.
Speaker 1: So one of the many ramifications of this enclave exchange
Speaker 1: was the erasure of the world's only third order enclave,
Speaker 1: and this happened in twenty fifteen, India signing agreement that
Speaker 1: actually gave the entire area to Bong Thish.
Speaker 2: That is wild, all right. Well, this next dispute is
Speaker 2: also real, but it has a fictional tie in. Now,
Speaker 2: if you're a fan of Game of Thrones, or at
Speaker 2: least the TV adaptation, you already know that the Dathracky
Speaker 2: Grasslands are a real place. It's a steep plateau that
Speaker 2: looms over this sixteen mile long inlet called Loch Foil.
Speaker 2: One side of Lockfoil belongs to Northern Ireland and the
Speaker 2: other to the Republic of Ireland. Now, this boundary dates
Speaker 2: back to nineteen twenty two when Ireland was partitioned, so
Speaker 2: the south became the independent Republic of Ireland while the
Speaker 2: north remained part of the United Kingdom. Now, going from
Speaker 2: one end of the bay to the other meant that
Speaker 2: you're crossing this border. But the nineteen nineties brought significant
Speaker 2: change to the situation, like the creation of the European
Speaker 2: Single Market and the Good Friday Agreement Peace Accord, which
Speaker 2: established a cross border body to regulate this area. So
Speaker 2: the border infrastructure was taken down and it was no
Speaker 2: longer totally clear where Northern Ireland ended and the Republic
Speaker 2: of Ireland began. But Britain still claimed the water up
Speaker 2: to the high tide mark, and this was a claim
Speaker 2: that was rejected by the Irish government. I Meanwhile, locals
Speaker 2: started crossing back and forth whenever they wanted.
Speaker 1: Basically, that sounds a lot easier than having to bring
Speaker 1: your passport just across the lake, definitely, But there's just
Speaker 1: one big remaining issue, which is oyster farming because there's
Speaker 1: no clear sovereignty over the water, there's minimal regulation, so
Speaker 1: people have been getting away with unsustainable farming practices and
Speaker 1: it's gotten a lot worse in the past ten years
Speaker 1: or so. So in twenty fourteen, the area had two
Speaker 1: thousand local oyster trestles, which are the racks used for
Speaker 1: oyster farming. By twenty twenty one, so just seven years later,
Speaker 1: there were more than sixty thousand of these two thousand
Speaker 1: to sixty thousand. Disputes over which you know, country controls
Speaker 1: the lock foil pop up repeatedly, and yet the problem
Speaker 1: remains unresolved, and this has caused a major impact on
Speaker 1: the local marine and even the avian life there. Okay,
Speaker 1: so this next one also involves a waterway, one that's
Speaker 1: very close to home for me because it is actually
Speaker 1: in New York City. So, as my fellow New Yorkers know,
Speaker 1: the Harlem River separates the island of Manhattan from the
Speaker 1: Bronx on the mainland, right. But there is a catch,
Speaker 1: and that is the neighborhood of Marble Hill. It is
Speaker 1: this forty two acre enclave north of the Harlem River
Speaker 1: that is in the Bronx but technically it's still a
Speaker 1: part of Manhattan, and weirdly, for almost two decades it
Speaker 1: was an island unattached to any mainland. So basically, Marble
Speaker 1: Hill was originally a part of Manhattan, with spiden Devil
Speaker 1: Creek which flowed around it. Then in eighteen ninety five,
Speaker 1: the Harlem Rivership Canal was constructed to make it easier
Speaker 1: for boats to navigate the water surrounding Manhattan. So due
Speaker 1: to the new canal and this already existing creek, Marble
Speaker 1: Hill became an island and it stayed that way until
Speaker 1: nineteen thirteen when the creek was filled in. Now that
Speaker 1: process physically attached to the Bronx, but geopolitically speaking, it
Speaker 1: remained part of the Borough of Manhattan.
Speaker 2: So I'm curious, like, how do residents of the Marble
Speaker 2: Hill feel about this? Do they identify with Manhattan or
Speaker 2: more with the Bronx.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a good question. So in twenty fourteen, Bronx
Speaker 1: Borough President Rubin Diaz told The New York Times quote,
Speaker 1: Marble Hill residents identify so much with the Bronx that
Speaker 1: they don't often realize they live in Manhattan until their
Speaker 1: summoned for jeury duty, but their Manhattanite status wasn't always
Speaker 1: a forgotten part of daily life. Things have actually gotten
Speaker 1: a little contentious over Marble Hill in the past. One
Speaker 1: Bronx Borough President, James J. Lyons, actually tried to claim
Speaker 1: it in nineteen thirty nine.
Speaker 2: And how exactly did he do that?
Speaker 1: Oh? The normal way. So he and his chauffeur went
Speaker 1: to the highest point of Marble Hill and they planted
Speaker 1: the Bronx County flag there. Yeah, and they also declared,
Speaker 1: quote I hereby proclaimed this territory of Marble Hill to
Speaker 1: be part of my borrow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is definitely how you would do it. And
Speaker 2: did this work?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 1: The New York Times reported that one witness thumbed his
Speaker 1: nose while a handful of others' bood lions, and the
Speaker 1: message was booed him they wanted to be part of Manhattan,
Speaker 1: and subsequent petition sent to the New York Governor reinforced
Speaker 1: that stance. So it has stayed part of Manhattan, only
Speaker 1: for future residents not to even realize where they lived.
Speaker 2: Wow, that's another wild one.
Speaker 3: All right.
Speaker 2: We'll finish out for our ninth fact with an eight
Speaker 2: hundred square mile section of desert located between Egypt and Sudan.
Speaker 2: The desert is called beer to Will and its ambiguous
Speaker 2: status can be blamed on British colonialism. So basically, Egypt's
Speaker 2: territory once included all of Sudan, but the British decided
Speaker 2: to divide these two countries back in eighteen ninety nine.
Speaker 2: Three years later, they added an amendment after realizing the
Speaker 2: original border was inconsistent with the ethnic composition in the area.
Speaker 2: So this amendment gave a chunk of the coastline along
Speaker 2: the Red Sea over to Sudan. Well, Egypt got beer
Speaker 2: to Will. Now the coast has these valuable minerals like gold,
Speaker 2: so the area is worth way more than a big
Speaker 2: plot of desert where nobody really wants to live. And
Speaker 2: so for that reason, the folks in Egypt said, no,
Speaker 2: we disagree with that nineteen oh two version of the border.
Speaker 2: We'll stick with the one that was drawn three years earlier,
Speaker 2: thank you very much. So beer to Will is kind
Speaker 2: of collateral damage here, because if Egypt claimed it, they
Speaker 2: would be acknowledging the border they don't agree with, and
Speaker 2: if Sudan claimed it, they would be going against the
Speaker 2: border drawn in nineteen oh two that they actually prefer.
Speaker 1: I mean, if I had a choice between gold and desert,
Speaker 1: I'd go for the gold, right.
Speaker 2: I'm curious. I was going to ask you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're saying this little section of desert really has
Speaker 1: no value.
Speaker 2: I mean not much. It's basically just some dunes, some
Speaker 2: black rock, dry river beds. But you know, one complication
Speaker 2: is that by not claiming it, and Sudan are leaving
Speaker 2: this area open for random people to do so. So
Speaker 2: in twenty fourteen, a farmer from the US actually went
Speaker 2: all the way to Berta Will and planted a flag
Speaker 2: once again, a flag for what he deemed is I know,
Speaker 2: it's really amazing, but he deemed this his new territory,
Speaker 2: the Kingdom of North Sudan. This was all an attempt
Speaker 2: to make his daughter a princess, but that's not really
Speaker 2: how things work, of course, like you have to have
Speaker 2: some reasonable standing to go around claiming land and getting
Speaker 2: recognized as a sovereign state, even if it's seemingly unclaimed land.
Speaker 2: Though this hasn't stopped others from trying, including an amateur
Speaker 2: radio enthusiast from Russia. This was in twenty fifteen, I think,
Speaker 2: and later a barrister from South London.
Speaker 1: Oh, man, that is so fascinating. I feel like you
Speaker 1: and I need to like print up some flags. There's
Speaker 1: a lot of territory to claims.
Speaker 3: For that fact, I.
Speaker 1: Really think you deserve today's trophy.
Speaker 2: I don't know, Mango, you had some good ones. I
Speaker 2: actually think you deserve today's trophy.
Speaker 1: So you are saying we both claim it.
Speaker 2: That's exactly what I'm saying here. It's a new dispute
Speaker 2: for the ages.
Speaker 3: Great well.
Speaker 1: Of course, you are welcome to my house with flags
Speaker 1: and bottles of boos whenever you want. But that is
Speaker 1: it for today's episode. If you have a question or comment,
Speaker 1: or if you want to suggest an idea for the show,
Speaker 1: you can always call our hotline. It is three oh
Speaker 1: two four oh five five nine two five. We love
Speaker 1: hearing your voicemails. You can also send us an email
Speaker 1: at high Geniuses at gmail dot com. That's Hi, Geniuses
Speaker 1: at gmail dot com. You can also find us on
Speaker 1: Instagram and Blue Sky, where we are at part time genius.
Speaker 1: This episode was written by our wonderful friend Meredith Danko. Meredith,
Speaker 1: you are the best. We'll be back next week. But
Speaker 1: in the meantime from Will, Dylan, Gabe, Mary, and myself.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening. Part Time Genius is
Speaker 1: a production of Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio. It is hosted by
Speaker 1: my good pal Will Pearson, who I've known for almost
Speaker 1: three decades now. That is insane to me. I'm the
Speaker 1: utter co host, Mangeshatikular aka Mango. Our producer is Mary
Speaker 1: Phillips Sandy. She's actually a super producer. I'm going to
Speaker 1: fix that in post. Our writer is Gabe Lucier, who
Speaker 1: I've also known for like a decade at this point,
Speaker 1: maybe more. Dylan Fagan is in the booth. He is
Speaker 1: always dressed up, always cheering us on, and always ready
Speaker 1: to hit record and then mix the show after he
Speaker 1: does a great job. I also want to shout out
Speaker 1: the executive producers from iHeart my good pals Katrina and
Speaker 1: Norvel and Ali Perry. We have social media support from
Speaker 1: Calypso Rawless. If you like our videos, that is all
Speaker 1: Calypso's handiwork. For more podcasts from Kaleidoscope and I Heart Radio,
Speaker 1: Visit the iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: App, Apple Podcasts.
Speaker 1: Or tune in wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Speaker 1: That's it from us here at part time Genius, thank
Speaker 1: you so much for listening.