WEBVTT - 9 Map-Slapping Border Disputes 0:00:14.560 --> 0:00:17.920 You're listening to Part Time Genius, the production of Kaleidoscope 0:00:18.120 --> 0:00:19.120 and iHeartRadio. 0:00:23.800 --> 0:00:25.520 Guess what Mango? What's that Will? 0:00:25.800 --> 0:00:25.880 So? 0:00:25.960 --> 0:00:28.400 Did you know that the United States isn't the only 0:00:28.480 --> 0:00:31.040 country that shares a land border with Canada? Did you 0:00:31.080 --> 0:00:31.280 know this? 0:00:32.080 --> 0:00:34.840 I did not know that this. 0:00:34.760 --> 0:00:37.840 Border actually just came into existence in twenty twenty two, 0:00:37.920 --> 0:00:39.960 So I'm not going to judge you for not knowing this, 0:00:40.040 --> 0:00:41.559 but I did find this pretty interesting. 0:00:41.760 --> 0:00:44.720 Well, I'm curious if it's Russia, Like I can't even imagine, 0:00:44.720 --> 0:00:46.680 like what country is border with it. But I feel 0:00:46.680 --> 0:00:49.920 like the only geography I really know comes from playing 0:00:49.960 --> 0:00:50.879 Carmen San Diego. 0:00:51.720 --> 0:00:55.320 N'sa Yeah, I'm actually with you on that, So I started. 0:00:55.720 --> 0:00:57.760 I said do it rocapella the other day, and my 0:00:57.840 --> 0:01:00.279 kids had no idea what I was referring to from 0:01:00.320 --> 0:01:03.880 the the Great TV show of the nineties. But well, 0:01:03.920 --> 0:01:07.000 you wouldn't find this piece of land on most globes anyway, 0:01:07.040 --> 0:01:10.679 because we're talking about a very small barren rock in 0:01:10.720 --> 0:01:13.640 the middle of the Nares Strait. It's the waterway between 0:01:13.640 --> 0:01:16.919 Canada and Greenland, which of course is a Danish territory, 0:01:17.360 --> 0:01:20.480 and in nineteen seventy three, Canada and Denmark established a 0:01:20.520 --> 0:01:23.800 border through the Nair Strait to separate their territories, but 0:01:23.880 --> 0:01:27.320 that boundary was drawn directly through the Hans Island, which 0:01:27.360 --> 0:01:29.839 is about three quarters of a square mile in side, 0:01:29.880 --> 0:01:32.880 so really really small. Now, the countries couldn't agree on 0:01:32.920 --> 0:01:35.560 who should get the island, so they just decided to 0:01:35.600 --> 0:01:37.800 deal with the problem of this pesky rock at a 0:01:37.880 --> 0:01:38.680 later time. 0:01:38.959 --> 0:01:42.800 And it took them what about like fifty years to deal. 0:01:42.680 --> 0:01:45.759 With Yeah, yeah, and not without some drama along the way. 0:01:45.840 --> 0:01:48.840 So you go back to nineteen eighty four and Canadian 0:01:48.880 --> 0:01:52.040 troops set off to claim Hans Island. When they arrived, 0:01:52.040 --> 0:01:54.480 they planted a flag which Eddie Izzard once taught us 0:01:54.520 --> 0:01:57.080 that basically claims it like it's yours once you put 0:01:57.080 --> 0:02:00.520 the flag in, and left a bottle of Canadian in whiskey, 0:02:00.560 --> 0:02:03.560 which I actually found pretty funny. So in response to this, 0:02:03.640 --> 0:02:07.400 Denmark's Minister of Greenland Affairs also went to Hans Island 0:02:07.720 --> 0:02:10.680 and he replaced the Canadian flag with a Danish one 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:14.360 and left a bottle of schnapps from Copenhagen with a 0:02:14.440 --> 0:02:18.360 note that read welcome to Danish Island. And this launched 0:02:18.360 --> 0:02:20.079 what the press has dubbed the Whisky War. 0:02:20.560 --> 0:02:25.160 So I remember learning about the Whiskey Rebellion in school. 0:02:25.600 --> 0:02:26.920 This seems much. 0:02:26.680 --> 0:02:27.840 More good natured than that. 0:02:27.919 --> 0:02:30.280 It does, at least a little more fun. So over 0:02:30.280 --> 0:02:33.400 the years, representatives of both countries went to Hans Island 0:02:33.400 --> 0:02:36.040 to put up flags and or leave bottles of alcohol, 0:02:36.440 --> 0:02:39.720 and so these expeditions were often strategic moves by politicians 0:02:39.720 --> 0:02:42.120 to get some positive press, you know, of course, during 0:02:42.120 --> 0:02:45.320 election seasons. And then in twenty twenty two, the two 0:02:45.400 --> 0:02:48.560 countries finally agreed to establish a border through the middle 0:02:48.639 --> 0:02:51.600 of the rock. Though technically Denmark made out a little 0:02:51.639 --> 0:02:54.760 bit better, getting about sixty percent of Hans Island. But 0:02:54.880 --> 0:02:58.600 the story hamenes that, you know that those rascals. But 0:02:58.639 --> 0:03:01.080 the story does have a happy ending because the foreign 0:03:01.160 --> 0:03:04.120 ministers of Denmark and Canada ended the war in the 0:03:04.160 --> 0:03:08.079 most appropriate way. They of course exchanged bottles of alcohol. 0:03:08.720 --> 0:03:11.440 Oh I love that, and I actually love that we're 0:03:11.440 --> 0:03:15.359 talking about national borders because they are so strange to me, 0:03:15.600 --> 0:03:19.160 like often they just seem like arbitrary lines on maps, 0:03:19.280 --> 0:03:22.760 or they actually have these like weird convoluted histories, so 0:03:22.800 --> 0:03:25.560 of course they lead to disagreements. But today We're going 0:03:25.600 --> 0:03:28.120 to tell you about nine of the world's strangest, most 0:03:28.160 --> 0:03:32.639 unusual border disputes, from a famous mountain that's in multiple 0:03:32.639 --> 0:03:36.640 countries to a survey accident that's still wreaking havoc amongst 0:03:36.640 --> 0:03:38.000 two US states. 0:03:38.480 --> 0:03:58.840 Let's dive in. 0:04:00.400 --> 0:04:02.880 Hey there, podcast listeners, welcome the part time genius. I'm 0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:05.200 Will Pearson, and as always, I'm here with my good 0:04:05.200 --> 0:04:07.720 friend Mangesh hot Ticketter and over there in the booth 0:04:07.840 --> 0:04:11.160 wearing a brick patterned T shirt and sipping a Seattle's 0:04:11.200 --> 0:04:14.480 Best coffee. That's our Palin producer Dylan Thinggan Meg. I 0:04:14.520 --> 0:04:16.800 don't know about you, but I got this one right away. 0:04:17.000 --> 0:04:20.280 Clearly it's a reference to the now defunct Borders Bookstore, 0:04:20.520 --> 0:04:22.640 because today is all about Borders. 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:23.520 Oh. 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:28.440 I love watching Dylan salute these defunct retail stores, right it's. 0:04:28.240 --> 0:04:29.080 Sort of his main thing. 0:04:29.200 --> 0:04:34.200 Yeah, such a batter radio shack and Zar's and whatever. 0:04:34.560 --> 0:04:39.479 But great job, Dylan, So I know, like you, I 0:04:39.680 --> 0:04:43.880 loved Borders. It was such a great bookstore. Metal Floss 0:04:43.880 --> 0:04:46.720 obviously used to get great rack space there and they 0:04:46.720 --> 0:04:50.000 were so sweet ones. But did you know that Borders 0:04:50.040 --> 0:04:53.279 Bookstore isn't called that because these books take you on 0:04:53.320 --> 0:04:56.880 a journey. It was actually named for its founders, Tom 0:04:56.920 --> 0:04:58.080 and Lewis Borders. 0:04:58.400 --> 0:05:00.800 Tom and Lewis Borders, sort of like Check and Daniel 0:05:00.839 --> 0:05:04.560 Circuit City, right, the founders of Circuit City exactly. 0:05:05.040 --> 0:05:08.839 Speaking of which, let's get into our next disputed border. 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:11.560 So fans of mountain climbing might be familiar with this 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:14.760 place because the moment it was first submitted in seventeen 0:05:14.839 --> 0:05:18.120 eighty six is often called the birth of modern mountaineering. 0:05:18.520 --> 0:05:21.440 And I'm talking about the tallest mountain in Western Europe. 0:05:21.760 --> 0:05:24.760 It stands at fifteen thousand, seven hundred and seventy six 0:05:24.800 --> 0:05:27.960 feet high. It is Mont Blanc in the Alps, but 0:05:28.520 --> 0:05:31.560 some folks know it by its Italian name Il Bianco, 0:05:31.960 --> 0:05:34.680 because it is right on the border of France and Italy, 0:05:34.760 --> 0:05:38.640 causing some issues over where exactly that boundary bisecxs of 0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:39.080 the mountain. 0:05:39.360 --> 0:05:41.320 I mean, I could see that being tricky, mountains aren't 0:05:41.360 --> 0:05:43.440 exactly great for making straight lines. 0:05:43.800 --> 0:05:46.560 Yeah, and you know, you see that problem in the 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:49.320 Himalias with India and China and Timba and like all 0:05:49.360 --> 0:05:52.600 these other places. But in this case, the problem comes 0:05:52.600 --> 0:05:56.480 down to two conflicting treaties so after defeating the Savoy 0:05:56.640 --> 0:06:01.640 kings in seventeen ninety six, Napoleon Bonaparte signed the Carrasco Armistice, 0:06:02.000 --> 0:06:05.400 which gave him Savoy and nice including a nice, big 0:06:05.480 --> 0:06:08.560 chunk of mont Blanc. Now it's no surprise the French 0:06:08.680 --> 0:06:11.560 preferred this treaty, But the Italians like to remind them 0:06:11.640 --> 0:06:15.160 that all of Napoleon's treaties have since been reversed by 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:19.240 the Congress of Vienna in eighteen fourteen, which reorganized European 0:06:19.279 --> 0:06:22.040 politics in the wake of his downfall. And they cite 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:25.520 this eighteen fifty eight agreement between France and Italy, which 0:06:25.600 --> 0:06:27.960 granted them a much more generous border. 0:06:28.600 --> 0:06:31.080 And how serious is this dispute, Like on a scale 0:06:31.120 --> 0:06:33.880 of swapping bottles of booze on a rock to ten. 0:06:34.120 --> 0:06:36.760 Maybe like a five, Like we're talking about an area 0:06:36.839 --> 0:06:39.720 that's less than half a square kilometer. Yet they've been 0:06:39.760 --> 0:06:42.760 trying and failing to resolve the disagreement since eighteen fifty eight, 0:06:42.839 --> 0:06:46.640 and things have gone a little tense in twenty fifteen 0:06:47.000 --> 0:06:49.760 when a local French mayor made moves to close a 0:06:49.800 --> 0:06:54.239 gate that led to the Gigante or Giant Glacier, which 0:06:54.279 --> 0:06:57.040 is on the Italian side of the mountain, and this 0:06:57.120 --> 0:07:01.359 limited access to one of Italy's points of pride, Fujo Torino. 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:04.719 So the French claimed it was a matter of protecting 0:07:04.760 --> 0:07:08.600 the environment and keeping climber safe, but Italian authorities got 0:07:08.680 --> 0:07:11.920 really angry. Another issue popped up in twenty nineteen when 0:07:11.920 --> 0:07:16.000 France implemented wildlife protection measures that included the area beneath 0:07:16.000 --> 0:07:20.000 this point. Again, this was considered an overstep of Italy's boundaries, 0:07:20.040 --> 0:07:23.000 and as of today, the dispute is still ongoing, so 0:07:23.240 --> 0:07:24.800 we kind of have to wait and see what happens. 0:07:25.120 --> 0:07:26.640 You know, it's hard to think of France and Italy 0:07:26.680 --> 0:07:28.840 fighting when they actually could just be sitting down to 0:07:28.880 --> 0:07:31.800 exchange plates of their equally delicious cuisines. 0:07:32.680 --> 0:07:34.280 Yeah, I love that idea. 0:07:34.120 --> 0:07:36.760 And I would also like to attend that meeting for sure. 0:07:37.120 --> 0:07:40.040 All right. Next up, we have the Machaia Seal Island. 0:07:40.120 --> 0:07:42.480 This is a fifteen acre island that's equidistant from the 0:07:42.640 --> 0:07:46.480 US and Canadian coast. Now specifically, it's about twelve miles 0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:50.600 from both Cutler, Maine and Nova Scotia's Grand Munan Island. 0:07:50.920 --> 0:07:53.320 Depending on who you ask, it belongs to the US 0:07:53.680 --> 0:07:54.840 or Canada. 0:07:54.880 --> 0:07:57.760 And is there anything they're worth arguing over. 0:07:58.240 --> 0:08:00.400 Well, it depends on how you feel about puffa mango. 0:08:00.400 --> 0:08:03.000 How do you feel about puffins? I am pro puffin. 0:08:03.360 --> 0:08:05.480 All right, Well, that's about all there is on this 0:08:05.600 --> 0:08:08.680 island in terms of inhabitants. But there's also a lighthouse 0:08:08.680 --> 0:08:12.360 which belongs to Canada, so the US refuses to recognize it. 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:15.480 So what happens that like Americans who happen to land 0:08:15.480 --> 0:08:18.160 on this island just kind of walk past the lighthouse 0:08:18.160 --> 0:08:18.840 and ignore it. 0:08:19.520 --> 0:08:22.400 Right, Yeah, I mean, we don't talk about the lighthouse mango. 0:08:22.480 --> 0:08:25.400 But according to my research, it really is hard to 0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:29.000 justify claiming this place as American. So in sixteen twenty one, 0:08:29.080 --> 0:08:32.080 the charter that established Nova Scotia as a British colony, 0:08:32.320 --> 0:08:35.120 it specified that it would include land that quote is 0:08:35.160 --> 0:08:38.800 within six leagues of any part of the coast. Six 0:08:38.920 --> 0:08:42.319 leagues is about eighteen miles, so that would include Machia 0:08:42.440 --> 0:08:46.360 Seal Island. But the American government prefers this seventeen eighty 0:08:46.400 --> 0:08:49.760 three Treaty of Paris, which ended the Revolutionary War and 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:53.480 granted them quote all islands within twenty leagues of any 0:08:53.559 --> 0:08:56.199 part of the shores of the United States. Now, the 0:08:56.280 --> 0:09:00.320 problem is that with this specific treaty, it excludes any 0:09:00.360 --> 0:09:02.600 islands belonging to Nova Scotia. 0:09:02.640 --> 0:09:05.160 That is so crazy that all these treaties got ridden 0:09:05.240 --> 0:09:08.040 without checking to see if there are other treaties that 0:09:08.120 --> 0:09:10.080 might you know, like for that a conflict. 0:09:09.760 --> 0:09:11.480 You got to check all your treaties, right. 0:09:13.080 --> 0:09:15.400 Well, if you go by the treaty that came first, 0:09:15.600 --> 0:09:18.720 it's clear this island belongs to Canada. But I don't 0:09:18.760 --> 0:09:22.040 get it if there's not much except puffins, Like, why 0:09:22.040 --> 0:09:23.600 does the US even care about this area? 0:09:23.760 --> 0:09:26.040 Well, first of all, don't devalue puffins. I just want 0:09:26.080 --> 0:09:27.760 to go ahead and say that on behalf of them. 0:09:27.800 --> 0:09:30.440 But also, the island sits in a region of water 0:09:30.559 --> 0:09:33.320 known as the Gray Zone, and whoever controls the island 0:09:33.440 --> 0:09:36.200 also controls that part of the ocean. So both US 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:39.080 and Canadian workers fish for lobsters in those waters, and 0:09:39.120 --> 0:09:42.880 as climate change pushes lobsters further north, being able to 0:09:43.000 --> 0:09:45.440 fish there becomes more and more important. 0:09:45.240 --> 0:09:47.720 Which makes sense. And is there any chance of this 0:09:47.800 --> 0:09:48.760 getting results soon? 0:09:49.040 --> 0:09:51.240 Well, the conversation pops up from time to time, but 0:09:51.280 --> 0:09:53.080 it's an issue that just doesn't have a lot of 0:09:53.080 --> 0:09:56.160 political momentum. Of course, there's another question that comes up 0:09:56.200 --> 0:09:58.920 when you look at the history here, like was any 0:09:58.960 --> 0:10:02.080 part of the island re Britons to give? And in 0:10:02.120 --> 0:10:05.360 this case, it's believed that the Passamaquaddi nation was the 0:10:05.400 --> 0:10:08.679 first to use the island. But of course they're conspicuously 0:10:08.720 --> 0:10:12.120 absent from these conversations. And in fact, the name Machayas 0:10:12.200 --> 0:10:14.720 is a native word meaning bad little falls. 0:10:15.040 --> 0:10:20.400 What a weird name for Alan, but I like it well. 0:10:20.520 --> 0:10:25.079 Our next dispute goes beyond islands. In fact, it's almost underwater, 0:10:25.480 --> 0:10:30.120 and I'm talking about the Minerva Atoll in the Pacific Ocean. 0:10:30.440 --> 0:10:34.000 So these are circular coral reefs. They rise barely a 0:10:34.000 --> 0:10:36.079 couple of feet out of the water, and they may 0:10:36.120 --> 0:10:38.400 be part of Tonga, which is about two hundred and 0:10:38.400 --> 0:10:42.000 sixty miles away, or Fiji, which is around four hundred 0:10:42.040 --> 0:10:44.959 and fifty miles away. Now, the two countries have been 0:10:44.960 --> 0:10:45.920 disputing about this. 0:10:45.920 --> 0:10:48.280 Area for decades, all right, I feel like there has 0:10:48.320 --> 0:10:50.079 to be a lot more to this story. So why 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:52.920 would either country want to claim a couple of partially 0:10:52.960 --> 0:10:54.240 submerged reefs. 0:10:54.520 --> 0:10:56.520 Yeah, I have that same question, And the truth is 0:10:56.520 --> 0:10:59.760 there are a few reasons. So these atolls are located 0:10:59.880 --> 0:11:03.360 in the Southern Pacific, and it's in an area known 0:11:03.400 --> 0:11:06.160 for its deposits of valuable minerals. So this includes things 0:11:06.240 --> 0:11:10.640 like cobalt and copper, manganese, even nickel, so it is 0:11:10.679 --> 0:11:12.880 an area that could be worth hundreds of millions of 0:11:12.920 --> 0:11:16.920 dollars in mining licenses. There are also these cultural considerations, right, 0:11:16.960 --> 0:11:20.120 so like both Tongans and Fijians have been fishing in 0:11:20.160 --> 0:11:23.720 the region for a very very long time. But we 0:11:23.840 --> 0:11:26.960 can actually trace the dispute back to a specific year. 0:11:27.240 --> 0:11:30.280 This goes back to nineteen seventy one and one man 0:11:31.080 --> 0:11:33.520 it was a wealthy real estate developer. His name is 0:11:33.559 --> 0:11:36.480 Michael Oliver. He was actually born in Lithuania but lived 0:11:36.520 --> 0:11:39.120 in Las Vegas at the time, and he had this 0:11:39.240 --> 0:11:41.720 idea to create a man made island on top of 0:11:41.760 --> 0:11:45.240 the northernmost reef and to turn it into his ideal 0:11:45.440 --> 0:11:50.160 libertarian nation. Now, Oliver and a crew dumped massive quantities 0:11:50.160 --> 0:11:52.400 of sand onto the reef, and then they added a 0:11:52.440 --> 0:11:55.560 stone tower and planted a flag for their newly founded 0:11:55.880 --> 0:11:59.679 Republic of Minerva. And they even had some coins minted. 0:12:00.160 --> 0:12:02.360 Just nuts because you know, just because you pile up 0:12:02.400 --> 0:12:04.760 some sand and meant some coins. That doesn't mean you 0:12:04.840 --> 0:12:07.000 have a nation, right or does it? 0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:11.000 It is wild. Allegedly, Oliver expected to have thirty thousand 0:12:11.080 --> 0:12:14.360 settlers join him in his republic, which might have given 0:12:14.440 --> 0:12:17.320 him more credence, but as you might expect, the nations 0:12:17.360 --> 0:12:20.000 near the reefs were not impressed by his scheme. In 0:12:20.160 --> 0:12:23.000 June of nineteen seventy two, the King of Tonga claimed 0:12:23.040 --> 0:12:26.880 a twelve mile area surrounding the reefs as traditional fishing grounds, 0:12:27.240 --> 0:12:30.040 and he sent one hundred troops to tear apart all 0:12:30.080 --> 0:12:32.880 of our structures, and then he had a band played 0:12:32.880 --> 0:12:36.160 the Tongan national anthem there so, and then soon the 0:12:36.240 --> 0:12:42.280 Intergovernmental South Pacific Forum, which includes heads of states from Fiji, Nauru, 0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:46.560 Western Samoa, also the Cook Islands, they issued this official 0:12:46.559 --> 0:12:50.600 announcement and it recognized Tonga's historical association with these reefs, 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:53.720 and you know that their government's continuing interest in the 0:12:53.800 --> 0:12:57.520 area sort of pre supposed all this stuff. But the 0:12:57.720 --> 0:13:01.720 wording was intentional in not recognized saying any official sovereignty 0:13:01.840 --> 0:13:05.680 over the reefs. So Oliver was thwarted. But you know, 0:13:05.720 --> 0:13:08.640 they left the question open. And when the UN Convention 0:13:08.840 --> 0:13:10.760 on the Law of the Sea went into effect in 0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:15.640 nineteen ninety four. It actually established exclusive economic zones extending 0:13:15.679 --> 0:13:19.960 two hundred nautical miles from each nation's coastline. So authorities 0:13:19.960 --> 0:13:22.280 in Tonga believe that gives them a certain claim over 0:13:22.280 --> 0:13:25.720 the reefs. But under that treaty, Fiji and Tonga's economic 0:13:25.840 --> 0:13:29.360 zones overlap, which of course complicates matters. 0:13:29.840 --> 0:13:32.560 So how has that dispute actually played out between Fiji 0:13:32.600 --> 0:13:33.320 and Tonga. 0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:35.080 There have been a few incidents over the years, like 0:13:35.200 --> 0:13:38.560 one time Fijians tore down some navigational equipment that was 0:13:38.559 --> 0:13:43.000 put up by Tongans. In twenty fourteen, Tonga's land minister 0:13:43.160 --> 0:13:46.640 publicly suggested giving up the Minerva Reefs in exchange for 0:13:46.760 --> 0:13:50.960 Fiji's Lao Islands, which actually make up half of Fiji's 0:13:51.040 --> 0:13:53.520 land mass, so you know, they didn't really take the 0:13:53.600 --> 0:13:57.400 idea seriously. Both countries have filed complaints and counterclaims with 0:13:57.440 --> 0:14:00.440 international authorities, but as of right now, it seems like 0:14:00.440 --> 0:14:04.000 there's no resolution in sight. But one thing that is 0:14:04.040 --> 0:14:06.160 not disputed the fact that we have to take a 0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:08.760 quick break, so we will be back with more weird 0:14:08.880 --> 0:14:10.480 border stories in just a minute. 0:14:10.720 --> 0:14:28.960 Don't go anywhere. Welcome back to Part Time Genius. 0:14:29.000 --> 0:14:31.800 If you enjoy the show, be sure to subscribe on 0:14:31.840 --> 0:14:35.040 your favorite podcast app, and for extra credit, leave us 0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:37.880 a nice rating and review. The last review we have 0:14:38.160 --> 0:14:41.560 is from Declan, who says, quote The Pirate One is 0:14:41.600 --> 0:14:44.320 my favorite. I've been listening to it for six months, 0:14:44.520 --> 0:14:48.840 as in read listening to it, which I love that 0:14:48.880 --> 0:14:51.640 so much, Declan. If you write to our high geniuses 0:14:51.680 --> 0:14:54.240 at gmail dot com account and send me your address, 0:14:54.560 --> 0:14:57.280 I will draw you a picture of pirate or maybe 0:14:57.320 --> 0:14:59.600 just a parrot that belongs on a pirate's shoulder, and 0:14:59.640 --> 0:15:01.120 I'll you on a postcard. 0:15:01.600 --> 0:15:04.960 That's pretty great, all right, Mango. So for our next fact, 0:15:05.120 --> 0:15:06.880 I've got a question for you. Have you ever wondered 0:15:06.920 --> 0:15:09.280 how people back in the day were able to calculate 0:15:09.400 --> 0:15:12.560 and mark state borders without any of the modern technology 0:15:12.600 --> 0:15:13.160 we have today. 0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:15.640 I have definitely thought about this because I grew up 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:18.640 in Delaware and in some of my friend's backyards, when 0:15:18.680 --> 0:15:20.400 you'd be out playing in the woods, you could actually 0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:24.480 walk into Pennsylvania. But we didn't know where that border was. Like. 0:15:24.520 --> 0:15:26.280 We just knew that if you wandered back a bit, 0:15:26.320 --> 0:15:27.520 you were actually over the line. 0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:30.520 Oh wow. Well, borders, it turns out, can be pretty 0:15:30.560 --> 0:15:34.000 messy things like consider the Georgia Tennessee border. For instance, 0:15:34.360 --> 0:15:38.120 in seventeen ninety six, Congress officially set Tennessee's southern border 0:15:38.160 --> 0:15:42.040 at the thirty fifth parallel, and in eighteen eighteen, surveyors 0:15:42.080 --> 0:15:45.160 accidentally marked the boundary about a mile south of where 0:15:45.160 --> 0:15:47.240 it was supposed to be. And that's thanks to these 0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:50.320 typo laden labels that they were consulting. Plus they were 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:54.400 using equipment that was outdated even by eighteen eighteen standards. 0:15:54.640 --> 0:15:57.200 And in fact, to this day, Georgia and Tennessee officials 0:15:57.240 --> 0:16:00.560 both agree that that's what happened here. But they don't 0:16:00.560 --> 0:16:03.160 agree on is whether anything should actually be done about it. 0:16:03.400 --> 0:16:05.920 That's really funny and it's amazing that they agree. But 0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:08.520 if it's just off by a mile, like, what is 0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:09.080 the big deal? 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:12.120 Well? Water, actually, so the main point of contention is 0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:14.720 Lake Lanier, which is in the northwest corner of Georgia 0:16:14.760 --> 0:16:18.080 but under Tennessee's jurisdiction. So the lake is fed by 0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:21.200 the Tennessee River and it provides drinking water. So Georgian's 0:16:21.200 --> 0:16:24.960 attempts to claim it usually happened during drought time. So 0:16:25.000 --> 0:16:27.840 obviously water rights are very serious business, but there have 0:16:27.920 --> 0:16:30.680 been some goofy moments along the way. So like in 0:16:30.680 --> 0:16:34.360 two thousand and eight, officials from Chattanooga snarkily sent Tennessee 0:16:34.360 --> 0:16:38.040 water to Georgia's legislature. This was in reaction to their complaints, 0:16:38.560 --> 0:16:42.200 and Georgia responded by foe arresting the crew who delivered it. 0:16:42.640 --> 0:16:46.640 So the dispute resurfaced in twenty thirteen when Georgia lawmakers 0:16:46.680 --> 0:16:50.920 authorized their state attorney general to sue Tennessee for access 0:16:50.960 --> 0:16:54.160 to drinking water in the area. In response to that, 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:57.960 Tennessee state Representative Jason Powell was quoted as saying, as 0:16:58.000 --> 0:17:00.680 far as I'm concerned, Georgia can keep its greedy hands 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:03.240 and it's thirsty mounts away from our water. 0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:04.280 Thirsty mouths. 0:17:04.440 --> 0:17:07.200 That's right, some of those thirsty mounts. So it's a 0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:10.000 difficult problem to solve it as a state border dispute. 0:17:10.000 --> 0:17:12.840 The place for it is probably the Supreme Court, but 0:17:12.920 --> 0:17:15.280 the issue actually hasn't had enough traction to get there. 0:17:15.520 --> 0:17:18.240 I love how like theatrical some of this stuff is right, 0:17:18.320 --> 0:17:22.320 like Tongo sending an army, like like Georgia fake arresting 0:17:22.359 --> 0:17:25.960 these people for sending water over like it's so ridiculous wild. 0:17:26.960 --> 0:17:29.920 It also seems like this recurring theme with these disputes, 0:17:29.960 --> 0:17:32.800 like people are upset, but you know, it gets stuck 0:17:32.840 --> 0:17:36.880 in this stasis, right, like it doesn't seem to move forward. Okay, Well, 0:17:36.920 --> 0:17:40.200 so our next border conundrum involves a kind of territory 0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:44.080 known as an enclave. So this is a sovereign territory 0:17:44.400 --> 0:17:46.760 it's fully surrounded by in other countries. So if you 0:17:46.760 --> 0:17:49.479 think about the Vatican, that's actually a good example. It 0:17:49.560 --> 0:17:53.479 is its own sovereign state, but it's totally enclosed by Italy. 0:17:54.160 --> 0:17:56.280 And this kind of thing used to be way more 0:17:56.320 --> 0:17:59.359 common before the era of modern map making and nation states, 0:17:59.359 --> 0:18:01.760 but they're there's still plenty of them around the world. 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:05.960 And there are even second order enclaves, And I'm curious, 0:18:05.960 --> 0:18:09.480 do you know what those are, just like lesser enclaves, 0:18:09.520 --> 0:18:12.400 Like is there an enclave ranking system or something? There 0:18:12.520 --> 0:18:14.359 might be, but that's not what I'm talking about. So 0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:18.920 a second order enclave is an enclave within another enclave. 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:22.359 And in the year twenty fifteen, the world's last third 0:18:22.640 --> 0:18:24.160 order enclave came to an end. 0:18:24.520 --> 0:18:26.200 Well, and I do know what those are. Those are 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:29.440 enclaves within an enclave, within an enclave, obviously. 0:18:30.359 --> 0:18:34.360 Yeah, So I'm talking about this place called Dala Kagabari, 0:18:34.720 --> 0:18:38.040 and this was one point seven acres of Indian land 0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:41.680 and it was surrounded by this Bangladeshi village, which was 0:18:41.680 --> 0:18:45.400 surrounded by an Indian village which was all contained within 0:18:45.440 --> 0:18:49.800 the nation of Bangladesh. So Smithsonian Magazine actually referred to 0:18:49.840 --> 0:18:54.120 this as the Turduccan of border disputes, which is kind 0:18:54.119 --> 0:18:54.760 of amazing. 0:18:55.040 --> 0:18:56.880 That is a pretty great term. So how on earth 0:18:56.920 --> 0:18:58.000 does something like this happen? 0:18:58.400 --> 0:19:01.600 I mean, the history is really complicated, and often in 0:19:01.600 --> 0:19:04.160 a way that made many people's lives worse. It would 0:19:04.160 --> 0:19:06.359 obviously take hours to tell the whole story of India 0:19:06.400 --> 0:19:09.760 and Bangladesh and the conflicts around those borders, but suffice 0:19:09.760 --> 0:19:13.280 it to say, by twenty eleven, India and Bangladesh had 0:19:13.600 --> 0:19:16.840 over one hundred and sixty enclaves that they began the 0:19:16.880 --> 0:19:20.679 process of exchanging. Now, no one knows exactly how this 0:19:20.800 --> 0:19:24.199 all came to be. There are some incredible legends about this. 0:19:24.480 --> 0:19:27.960 Some people blame generations of maharajas who were gambling land 0:19:27.960 --> 0:19:31.080 away or there is one theory about a drunk colonial 0:19:31.119 --> 0:19:34.920 brit who knocked ink onto a map, But the reality 0:19:35.000 --> 0:19:37.800 is that they're probably the result of the Mogul Empire's 0:19:37.920 --> 0:19:41.960 expansion attempts, right, and the locals suffered for it. So 0:19:42.080 --> 0:19:43.920 imagine if you were traveling to the next town over 0:19:43.960 --> 0:19:46.960 and that actually meant you were crossing national borders. So 0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:51.320 because of this, people had trouble exercising basic human rights right, 0:19:51.400 --> 0:19:54.040 Like it was hard for people to get ideas, it 0:19:54.080 --> 0:19:56.840 was hard for them to get education. It was really 0:19:56.920 --> 0:20:01.000 really complicated. But trying to solve this dispute is also difficult. 0:20:01.080 --> 0:20:04.680 So one of the many ramifications of this enclave exchange 0:20:04.800 --> 0:20:07.840 was the erasure of the world's only third order enclave, 0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:11.520 and this happened in twenty fifteen, India signing agreement that 0:20:11.560 --> 0:20:14.119 actually gave the entire area to Bong Thish. 0:20:14.160 --> 0:20:16.520 That is wild, all right. Well, this next dispute is 0:20:16.600 --> 0:20:19.320 also real, but it has a fictional tie in. Now, 0:20:19.359 --> 0:20:21.240 if you're a fan of Game of Thrones, or at 0:20:21.320 --> 0:20:25.000 least the TV adaptation, you already know that the Dathracky 0:20:25.040 --> 0:20:28.080 Grasslands are a real place. It's a steep plateau that 0:20:28.160 --> 0:20:32.359 looms over this sixteen mile long inlet called Loch Foil. 0:20:32.880 --> 0:20:35.679 One side of Lockfoil belongs to Northern Ireland and the 0:20:35.720 --> 0:20:38.920 other to the Republic of Ireland. Now, this boundary dates 0:20:38.920 --> 0:20:42.199 back to nineteen twenty two when Ireland was partitioned, so 0:20:42.240 --> 0:20:45.320 the south became the independent Republic of Ireland while the 0:20:45.320 --> 0:20:48.359 north remained part of the United Kingdom. Now, going from 0:20:48.359 --> 0:20:50.000 one end of the bay to the other meant that 0:20:50.040 --> 0:20:54.000 you're crossing this border. But the nineteen nineties brought significant 0:20:54.080 --> 0:20:57.080 change to the situation, like the creation of the European 0:20:57.160 --> 0:21:00.720 Single Market and the Good Friday Agreement Peace Accord, which 0:21:00.840 --> 0:21:04.320 established a cross border body to regulate this area. So 0:21:04.359 --> 0:21:06.840 the border infrastructure was taken down and it was no 0:21:06.880 --> 0:21:10.520 longer totally clear where Northern Ireland ended and the Republic 0:21:10.560 --> 0:21:13.800 of Ireland began. But Britain still claimed the water up 0:21:13.800 --> 0:21:15.639 to the high tide mark, and this was a claim 0:21:15.680 --> 0:21:18.840