1 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:17,920 Speaker 1: You're listening to Part Time Genius, the production of Kaleidoscope 2 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:19,120 Speaker 1: and iHeartRadio. 3 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 2: Guess what Mango? What's that Will? 4 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 1: So? 5 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 2: Did you know that the United States isn't the only 6 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:31,040 Speaker 2: country that shares a land border with Canada? Did you 7 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:31,280 Speaker 2: know this? 8 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:34,840 Speaker 1: I did not know that this. 9 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:37,840 Speaker 2: Border actually just came into existence in twenty twenty two, 10 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:39,960 Speaker 2: So I'm not going to judge you for not knowing this, 11 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:41,559 Speaker 2: but I did find this pretty interesting. 12 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 1: Well, I'm curious if it's Russia, Like I can't even imagine, 13 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 1: like what country is border with it. But I feel 14 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:49,920 Speaker 1: like the only geography I really know comes from playing 15 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:50,879 Speaker 1: Carmen San Diego. 16 00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 2: N'sa Yeah, I'm actually with you on that, So I started. 17 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 2: I said do it rocapella the other day, and my 18 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:00,279 Speaker 2: kids had no idea what I was referring to from 19 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 2: the the Great TV show of the nineties. But well, 20 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 2: you wouldn't find this piece of land on most globes anyway, 21 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:10,679 Speaker 2: because we're talking about a very small barren rock in 22 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 2: the middle of the Nares Strait. It's the waterway between 23 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:16,919 Speaker 2: Canada and Greenland, which of course is a Danish territory, 24 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:20,480 Speaker 2: and in nineteen seventy three, Canada and Denmark established a 25 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 2: border through the Nair Strait to separate their territories, but 26 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:27,320 Speaker 2: that boundary was drawn directly through the Hans Island, which 27 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:29,839 Speaker 2: is about three quarters of a square mile in side, 28 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 2: so really really small. Now, the countries couldn't agree on 29 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 2: who should get the island, so they just decided to 30 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 2: deal with the problem of this pesky rock at a 31 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:38,680 Speaker 2: later time. 32 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: And it took them what about like fifty years to deal. 33 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:45,759 Speaker 2: With Yeah, yeah, and not without some drama along the way. 34 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 2: So you go back to nineteen eighty four and Canadian 35 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 2: troops set off to claim Hans Island. When they arrived, 36 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 2: they planted a flag which Eddie Izzard once taught us 37 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:57,080 Speaker 2: that basically claims it like it's yours once you put 38 00:01:57,080 --> 00:02:00,520 Speaker 2: the flag in, and left a bottle of Canadian in whiskey, 39 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 2: which I actually found pretty funny. So in response to this, 40 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 2: Denmark's Minister of Greenland Affairs also went to Hans Island 41 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 2: and he replaced the Canadian flag with a Danish one 42 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:14,360 Speaker 2: and left a bottle of schnapps from Copenhagen with a 43 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:18,360 Speaker 2: note that read welcome to Danish Island. And this launched 44 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:20,079 Speaker 2: what the press has dubbed the Whisky War. 45 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 1: So I remember learning about the Whiskey Rebellion in school. 46 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:26,920 Speaker 1: This seems much. 47 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:27,840 Speaker 3: More good natured than that. 48 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 2: It does, at least a little more fun. So over 49 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 2: the years, representatives of both countries went to Hans Island 50 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 2: to put up flags and or leave bottles of alcohol, 51 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 2: and so these expeditions were often strategic moves by politicians 52 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 2: to get some positive press, you know, of course, during 53 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 2: election seasons. And then in twenty twenty two, the two 54 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 2: countries finally agreed to establish a border through the middle 55 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 2: of the rock. Though technically Denmark made out a little 56 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 2: bit better, getting about sixty percent of Hans Island. But 57 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 2: the story hamenes that, you know that those rascals. But 58 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:01,080 Speaker 2: the story does have a happy ending because the foreign 59 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 2: ministers of Denmark and Canada ended the war in the 60 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:08,079 Speaker 2: most appropriate way. They of course exchanged bottles of alcohol. 61 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 1: Oh I love that, and I actually love that we're 62 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:15,359 Speaker 1: talking about national borders because they are so strange to me, 63 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:19,160 Speaker 1: like often they just seem like arbitrary lines on maps, 64 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 1: or they actually have these like weird convoluted histories, so 65 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 1: of course they lead to disagreements. But today We're going 66 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 1: to tell you about nine of the world's strangest, most 67 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:32,639 Speaker 1: unusual border disputes, from a famous mountain that's in multiple 68 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 1: countries to a survey accident that's still wreaking havoc amongst 69 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 1: two US states. 70 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 3: Let's dive in. 71 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 2: Hey there, podcast listeners, welcome the part time genius. I'm 72 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 2: Will Pearson, and as always, I'm here with my good 73 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 2: friend Mangesh hot Ticketter and over there in the booth 74 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 2: wearing a brick patterned T shirt and sipping a Seattle's 75 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 2: Best coffee. That's our Palin producer Dylan Thinggan Meg. I 76 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 2: don't know about you, but I got this one right away. 77 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:20,280 Speaker 2: Clearly it's a reference to the now defunct Borders Bookstore, 78 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 2: because today is all about Borders. 79 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 3: Oh. 80 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 1: I love watching Dylan salute these defunct retail stores, right it's. 81 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 2: Sort of his main thing. 82 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, such a batter radio shack and Zar's and whatever. 83 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:39,479 Speaker 1: But great job, Dylan, So I know, like you, I 84 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 1: loved Borders. It was such a great bookstore. Metal Floss 85 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:46,720 Speaker 1: obviously used to get great rack space there and they 86 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 1: were so sweet ones. But did you know that Borders 87 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:53,279 Speaker 1: Bookstore isn't called that because these books take you on 88 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 1: a journey. It was actually named for its founders, Tom 89 00:04:56,920 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 1: and Lewis Borders. 90 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 2: Tom and Lewis Borders, sort of like Check and Daniel 91 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 2: Circuit City, right, the founders of Circuit City exactly. 92 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:08,839 Speaker 1: Speaking of which, let's get into our next disputed border. 93 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 1: So fans of mountain climbing might be familiar with this 94 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 1: place because the moment it was first submitted in seventeen 95 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 1: eighty six is often called the birth of modern mountaineering. 96 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 1: And I'm talking about the tallest mountain in Western Europe. 97 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 1: It stands at fifteen thousand, seven hundred and seventy six 98 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 1: feet high. It is Mont Blanc in the Alps, but 99 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 1: some folks know it by its Italian name Il Bianco, 100 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 1: because it is right on the border of France and Italy, 101 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 1: causing some issues over where exactly that boundary bisecxs of 102 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 1: the mountain. 103 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 2: I mean, I could see that being tricky, mountains aren't 104 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:43,440 Speaker 2: exactly great for making straight lines. 105 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, you see that problem in the 106 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 1: Himalias with India and China and Timba and like all 107 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:52,600 Speaker 1: these other places. But in this case, the problem comes 108 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:56,480 Speaker 1: down to two conflicting treaties so after defeating the Savoy 109 00:05:56,640 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 1: kings in seventeen ninety six, Napoleon Bonaparte signed the Carrasco Armistice, 110 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:05,400 Speaker 1: which gave him Savoy and nice including a nice, big 111 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 1: chunk of mont Blanc. Now it's no surprise the French 112 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 1: preferred this treaty, But the Italians like to remind them 113 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:15,160 Speaker 1: that all of Napoleon's treaties have since been reversed by 114 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 1: the Congress of Vienna in eighteen fourteen, which reorganized European 115 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:22,040 Speaker 1: politics in the wake of his downfall. And they cite 116 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 1: this eighteen fifty eight agreement between France and Italy, which 117 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 1: granted them a much more generous border. 118 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 2: And how serious is this dispute, Like on a scale 119 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 2: of swapping bottles of booze on a rock to ten. 120 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 1: Maybe like a five, Like we're talking about an area 121 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:39,720 Speaker 1: that's less than half a square kilometer. Yet they've been 122 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:42,760 Speaker 1: trying and failing to resolve the disagreement since eighteen fifty eight, 123 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 1: and things have gone a little tense in twenty fifteen 124 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 1: when a local French mayor made moves to close a 125 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:54,239 Speaker 1: gate that led to the Gigante or Giant Glacier, which 126 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:57,040 Speaker 1: is on the Italian side of the mountain, and this 127 00:06:57,120 --> 00:07:01,359 Speaker 1: limited access to one of Italy's points of pride, Fujo Torino. 128 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:04,719 Speaker 1: So the French claimed it was a matter of protecting 129 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:08,600 Speaker 1: the environment and keeping climber safe, but Italian authorities got 130 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 1: really angry. Another issue popped up in twenty nineteen when 131 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 1: France implemented wildlife protection measures that included the area beneath 132 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 1: this point. Again, this was considered an overstep of Italy's boundaries, 133 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 1: and as of today, the dispute is still ongoing, so 134 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 1: we kind of have to wait and see what happens. 135 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 2: You know, it's hard to think of France and Italy 136 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 2: fighting when they actually could just be sitting down to 137 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 2: exchange plates of their equally delicious cuisines. 138 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, I love that idea. 139 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 1: And I would also like to attend that meeting for sure. 140 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 2: All right. Next up, we have the Machaia Seal Island. 141 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 2: This is a fifteen acre island that's equidistant from the 142 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 2: US and Canadian coast. Now specifically, it's about twelve miles 143 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 2: from both Cutler, Maine and Nova Scotia's Grand Munan Island. 144 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 2: Depending on who you ask, it belongs to the US 145 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 2: or Canada. 146 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 1: And is there anything they're worth arguing over. 147 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 2: Well, it depends on how you feel about puffa mango. 148 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 2: How do you feel about puffins? I am pro puffin. 149 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 2: All right, Well, that's about all there is on this 150 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 2: island in terms of inhabitants. But there's also a lighthouse 151 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 2: which belongs to Canada, so the US refuses to recognize it. 152 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 1: So what happens that like Americans who happen to land 153 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 1: on this island just kind of walk past the lighthouse 154 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 1: and ignore it. 155 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:22,400 Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I mean, we don't talk about the lighthouse mango. 156 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 2: But according to my research, it really is hard to 157 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 2: justify claiming this place as American. So in sixteen twenty one, 158 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:32,080 Speaker 2: the charter that established Nova Scotia as a British colony, 159 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 2: it specified that it would include land that quote is 160 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 2: within six leagues of any part of the coast. Six 161 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:42,319 Speaker 2: leagues is about eighteen miles, so that would include Machia 162 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 2: Seal Island. But the American government prefers this seventeen eighty 163 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 2: three Treaty of Paris, which ended the Revolutionary War and 164 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:53,480 Speaker 2: granted them quote all islands within twenty leagues of any 165 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:56,199 Speaker 2: part of the shores of the United States. Now, the 166 00:08:56,280 --> 00:09:00,320 Speaker 2: problem is that with this specific treaty, it excludes any 167 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 2: islands belonging to Nova Scotia. 168 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 1: That is so crazy that all these treaties got ridden 169 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 1: without checking to see if there are other treaties that 170 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:10,080 Speaker 1: might you know, like for that a conflict. 171 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 2: You got to check all your treaties, right. 172 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 1: Well, if you go by the treaty that came first, 173 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:18,720 Speaker 1: it's clear this island belongs to Canada. But I don't 174 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 1: get it if there's not much except puffins, Like, why 175 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 1: does the US even care about this area? 176 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 2: Well, first of all, don't devalue puffins. I just want 177 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 2: to go ahead and say that on behalf of them. 178 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:30,440 Speaker 2: But also, the island sits in a region of water 179 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:33,320 Speaker 2: known as the Gray Zone, and whoever controls the island 180 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 2: also controls that part of the ocean. So both US 181 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:39,080 Speaker 2: and Canadian workers fish for lobsters in those waters, and 182 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 2: as climate change pushes lobsters further north, being able to 183 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:45,440 Speaker 2: fish there becomes more and more important. 184 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 1: Which makes sense. And is there any chance of this 185 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 1: getting results soon? 186 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:51,240 Speaker 2: Well, the conversation pops up from time to time, but 187 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:53,080 Speaker 2: it's an issue that just doesn't have a lot of 188 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 2: political momentum. Of course, there's another question that comes up 189 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 2: when you look at the history here, like was any 190 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:02,080 Speaker 2: part of the island re Britons to give? And in 191 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 2: this case, it's believed that the Passamaquaddi nation was the 192 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:08,679 Speaker 2: first to use the island. But of course they're conspicuously 193 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 2: absent from these conversations. And in fact, the name Machayas 194 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:14,720 Speaker 2: is a native word meaning bad little falls. 195 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 1: What a weird name for Alan, but I like it well. 196 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:25,079 Speaker 1: Our next dispute goes beyond islands. In fact, it's almost underwater, 197 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 1: and I'm talking about the Minerva Atoll in the Pacific Ocean. 198 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 1: So these are circular coral reefs. They rise barely a 199 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:36,079 Speaker 1: couple of feet out of the water, and they may 200 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 1: be part of Tonga, which is about two hundred and 201 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 1: sixty miles away, or Fiji, which is around four hundred 202 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:44,959 Speaker 1: and fifty miles away. Now, the two countries have been 203 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 1: disputing about this. 204 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 2: Area for decades, all right, I feel like there has 205 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:50,079 Speaker 2: to be a lot more to this story. So why 206 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 2: would either country want to claim a couple of partially 207 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 2: submerged reefs. 208 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:56,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, I have that same question, And the truth is 209 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 1: there are a few reasons. So these atolls are located 210 00:10:59,880 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 1: in the Southern Pacific, and it's in an area known 211 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 1: for its deposits of valuable minerals. So this includes things 212 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 1: like cobalt and copper, manganese, even nickel, so it is 213 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 1: an area that could be worth hundreds of millions of 214 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 1: dollars in mining licenses. There are also these cultural considerations, right, 215 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:20,120 Speaker 1: so like both Tongans and Fijians have been fishing in 216 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:23,720 Speaker 1: the region for a very very long time. But we 217 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:26,960 Speaker 1: can actually trace the dispute back to a specific year. 218 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:30,280 Speaker 1: This goes back to nineteen seventy one and one man 219 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 1: it was a wealthy real estate developer. His name is 220 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 1: Michael Oliver. He was actually born in Lithuania but lived 221 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 1: in Las Vegas at the time, and he had this 222 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:41,720 Speaker 1: idea to create a man made island on top of 223 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 1: the northernmost reef and to turn it into his ideal 224 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 1: libertarian nation. Now, Oliver and a crew dumped massive quantities 225 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 1: of sand onto the reef, and then they added a 226 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:55,560 Speaker 1: stone tower and planted a flag for their newly founded 227 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:59,679 Speaker 1: Republic of Minerva. And they even had some coins minted. 228 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 2: Just nuts because you know, just because you pile up 229 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:04,760 Speaker 2: some sand and meant some coins. That doesn't mean you 230 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 2: have a nation, right or does it? 231 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 1: It is wild. Allegedly, Oliver expected to have thirty thousand 232 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 1: settlers join him in his republic, which might have given 233 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:17,320 Speaker 1: him more credence, but as you might expect, the nations 234 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 1: near the reefs were not impressed by his scheme. In 235 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 1: June of nineteen seventy two, the King of Tonga claimed 236 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:26,880 Speaker 1: a twelve mile area surrounding the reefs as traditional fishing grounds, 237 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 1: and he sent one hundred troops to tear apart all 238 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 1: of our structures, and then he had a band played 239 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 1: the Tongan national anthem there so, and then soon the 240 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 1: Intergovernmental South Pacific Forum, which includes heads of states from Fiji, Nauru, 241 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:46,560 Speaker 1: Western Samoa, also the Cook Islands, they issued this official 242 00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 1: announcement and it recognized Tonga's historical association with these reefs, 243 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:53,720 Speaker 1: and you know that their government's continuing interest in the 244 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 1: area sort of pre supposed all this stuff. But the 245 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:01,720 Speaker 1: wording was intentional in not recognized saying any official sovereignty 246 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:05,680 Speaker 1: over the reefs. So Oliver was thwarted. But you know, 247 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 1: they left the question open. And when the UN Convention 248 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 1: on the Law of the Sea went into effect in 249 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety four. It actually established exclusive economic zones extending 250 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:19,960 Speaker 1: two hundred nautical miles from each nation's coastline. So authorities 251 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 1: in Tonga believe that gives them a certain claim over 252 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:25,720 Speaker 1: the reefs. But under that treaty, Fiji and Tonga's economic 253 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:29,360 Speaker 1: zones overlap, which of course complicates matters. 254 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:32,560 Speaker 2: So how has that dispute actually played out between Fiji 255 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:33,320 Speaker 2: and Tonga. 256 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:35,080 Speaker 1: There have been a few incidents over the years, like 257 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:38,560 Speaker 1: one time Fijians tore down some navigational equipment that was 258 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:43,000 Speaker 1: put up by Tongans. In twenty fourteen, Tonga's land minister 259 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 1: publicly suggested giving up the Minerva Reefs in exchange for 260 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:50,960 Speaker 1: Fiji's Lao Islands, which actually make up half of Fiji's 261 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 1: land mass, so you know, they didn't really take the 262 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:57,400 Speaker 1: idea seriously. Both countries have filed complaints and counterclaims with 263 00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:00,440 Speaker 1: international authorities, but as of right now, it seems like 264 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 1: there's no resolution in sight. But one thing that is 265 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 1: not disputed the fact that we have to take a 266 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:08,760 Speaker 1: quick break, so we will be back with more weird 267 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 1: border stories in just a minute. 268 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 3: Don't go anywhere. Welcome back to Part Time Genius. 269 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 1: If you enjoy the show, be sure to subscribe on 270 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 1: your favorite podcast app, and for extra credit, leave us 271 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 1: a nice rating and review. The last review we have 272 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 1: is from Declan, who says, quote The Pirate One is 273 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 1: my favorite. I've been listening to it for six months, 274 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 1: as in read listening to it, which I love that 275 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 1: so much, Declan. If you write to our high geniuses 276 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:54,240 Speaker 1: at gmail dot com account and send me your address, 277 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 1: I will draw you a picture of pirate or maybe 278 00:14:57,320 --> 00:14:59,600 Speaker 1: just a parrot that belongs on a pirate's shoulder, and 279 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:01,120 Speaker 1: I'll you on a postcard. 280 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 2: That's pretty great, all right, Mango. So for our next fact, 281 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 2: I've got a question for you. Have you ever wondered 282 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 2: how people back in the day were able to calculate 283 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 2: and mark state borders without any of the modern technology 284 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 2: we have today. 285 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 1: I have definitely thought about this because I grew up 286 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 1: in Delaware and in some of my friend's backyards, when 287 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:20,400 Speaker 1: you'd be out playing in the woods, you could actually 288 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 1: walk into Pennsylvania. But we didn't know where that border was. Like. 289 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 1: We just knew that if you wandered back a bit, 290 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 1: you were actually over the line. 291 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 2: Oh wow. Well, borders, it turns out, can be pretty 292 00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 2: messy things like consider the Georgia Tennessee border. For instance, 293 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:38,120 Speaker 2: in seventeen ninety six, Congress officially set Tennessee's southern border 294 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:42,040 Speaker 2: at the thirty fifth parallel, and in eighteen eighteen, surveyors 295 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 2: accidentally marked the boundary about a mile south of where 296 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 2: it was supposed to be. And that's thanks to these 297 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 2: typo laden labels that they were consulting. Plus they were 298 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 2: using equipment that was outdated even by eighteen eighteen standards. 299 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:57,200 Speaker 2: And in fact, to this day, Georgia and Tennessee officials 300 00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 2: both agree that that's what happened here. But they don't 301 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 2: agree on is whether anything should actually be done about it. 302 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 1: That's really funny and it's amazing that they agree. But 303 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:08,520 Speaker 1: if it's just off by a mile, like, what is 304 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 1: the big deal? 305 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:12,120 Speaker 2: Well? Water, actually, so the main point of contention is 306 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:14,720 Speaker 2: Lake Lanier, which is in the northwest corner of Georgia 307 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 2: but under Tennessee's jurisdiction. So the lake is fed by 308 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:21,200 Speaker 2: the Tennessee River and it provides drinking water. So Georgian's 309 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 2: attempts to claim it usually happened during drought time. So 310 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:27,840 Speaker 2: obviously water rights are very serious business, but there have 311 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 2: been some goofy moments along the way. So like in 312 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 2: two thousand and eight, officials from Chattanooga snarkily sent Tennessee 313 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 2: water to Georgia's legislature. This was in reaction to their complaints, 314 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 2: and Georgia responded by foe arresting the crew who delivered it. 315 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 2: So the dispute resurfaced in twenty thirteen when Georgia lawmakers 316 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 2: authorized their state attorney general to sue Tennessee for access 317 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 2: to drinking water in the area. In response to that, 318 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 2: Tennessee state Representative Jason Powell was quoted as saying, as 319 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 2: far as I'm concerned, Georgia can keep its greedy hands 320 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 2: and it's thirsty mounts away from our water. 321 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 1: Thirsty mouths. 322 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:07,200 Speaker 2: That's right, some of those thirsty mounts. So it's a 323 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 2: difficult problem to solve it as a state border dispute. 324 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 2: The place for it is probably the Supreme Court, but 325 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:15,280 Speaker 2: the issue actually hasn't had enough traction to get there. 326 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 1: I love how like theatrical some of this stuff is right, 327 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:22,320 Speaker 1: like Tongo sending an army, like like Georgia fake arresting 328 00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:25,960 Speaker 1: these people for sending water over like it's so ridiculous wild. 329 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:29,920 Speaker 1: It also seems like this recurring theme with these disputes, 330 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: like people are upset, but you know, it gets stuck 331 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:36,880 Speaker 1: in this stasis, right, like it doesn't seem to move forward. Okay, Well, 332 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:40,200 Speaker 1: so our next border conundrum involves a kind of territory 333 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:44,080 Speaker 1: known as an enclave. So this is a sovereign territory 334 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 1: it's fully surrounded by in other countries. So if you 335 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:49,479 Speaker 1: think about the Vatican, that's actually a good example. It 336 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:53,479 Speaker 1: is its own sovereign state, but it's totally enclosed by Italy. 337 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 1: And this kind of thing used to be way more 338 00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:59,359 Speaker 1: common before the era of modern map making and nation states, 339 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:01,760 Speaker 1: but they're there's still plenty of them around the world. 340 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:05,960 Speaker 1: And there are even second order enclaves, And I'm curious, 341 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:09,480 Speaker 1: do you know what those are, just like lesser enclaves, 342 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:12,400 Speaker 1: Like is there an enclave ranking system or something? There 343 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:14,359 Speaker 1: might be, but that's not what I'm talking about. So 344 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:18,920 Speaker 1: a second order enclave is an enclave within another enclave. 345 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:22,359 Speaker 1: And in the year twenty fifteen, the world's last third 346 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:24,160 Speaker 1: order enclave came to an end. 347 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:26,200 Speaker 2: Well, and I do know what those are. Those are 348 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:29,440 Speaker 2: enclaves within an enclave, within an enclave, obviously. 349 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:34,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, So I'm talking about this place called Dala Kagabari, 350 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:38,040 Speaker 1: and this was one point seven acres of Indian land 351 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:41,680 Speaker 1: and it was surrounded by this Bangladeshi village, which was 352 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:45,400 Speaker 1: surrounded by an Indian village which was all contained within 353 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:49,800 Speaker 1: the nation of Bangladesh. So Smithsonian Magazine actually referred to 354 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:54,120 Speaker 1: this as the Turduccan of border disputes, which is kind 355 00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:54,760 Speaker 1: of amazing. 356 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:56,880 Speaker 2: That is a pretty great term. So how on earth 357 00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 2: does something like this happen? 358 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 1: I mean, the history is really complicated, and often in 359 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:04,160 Speaker 1: a way that made many people's lives worse. It would 360 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:06,359 Speaker 1: obviously take hours to tell the whole story of India 361 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 1: and Bangladesh and the conflicts around those borders, but suffice 362 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 1: it to say, by twenty eleven, India and Bangladesh had 363 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 1: over one hundred and sixty enclaves that they began the 364 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:20,679 Speaker 1: process of exchanging. Now, no one knows exactly how this 365 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:24,199 Speaker 1: all came to be. There are some incredible legends about this. 366 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 1: Some people blame generations of maharajas who were gambling land 367 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:31,080 Speaker 1: away or there is one theory about a drunk colonial 368 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:34,920 Speaker 1: brit who knocked ink onto a map, But the reality 369 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 1: is that they're probably the result of the Mogul Empire's 370 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:41,960 Speaker 1: expansion attempts, right, and the locals suffered for it. So 371 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:43,920 Speaker 1: imagine if you were traveling to the next town over 372 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 1: and that actually meant you were crossing national borders. So 373 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:51,320 Speaker 1: because of this, people had trouble exercising basic human rights right, 374 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:54,040 Speaker 1: Like it was hard for people to get ideas, it 375 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:56,840 Speaker 1: was hard for them to get education. It was really 376 00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:01,000 Speaker 1: really complicated. But trying to solve this dispute is also difficult. 377 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:04,680 Speaker 1: So one of the many ramifications of this enclave exchange 378 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 1: was the erasure of the world's only third order enclave, 379 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 1: and this happened in twenty fifteen, India signing agreement that 380 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:14,119 Speaker 1: actually gave the entire area to Bong Thish. 381 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:16,520 Speaker 2: That is wild, all right. Well, this next dispute is 382 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 2: also real, but it has a fictional tie in. Now, 383 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 2: if you're a fan of Game of Thrones, or at 384 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 2: least the TV adaptation, you already know that the Dathracky 385 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 2: Grasslands are a real place. It's a steep plateau that 386 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:32,359 Speaker 2: looms over this sixteen mile long inlet called Loch Foil. 387 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:35,679 Speaker 2: One side of Lockfoil belongs to Northern Ireland and the 388 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:38,920 Speaker 2: other to the Republic of Ireland. Now, this boundary dates 389 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:42,199 Speaker 2: back to nineteen twenty two when Ireland was partitioned, so 390 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 2: the south became the independent Republic of Ireland while the 391 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:48,359 Speaker 2: north remained part of the United Kingdom. Now, going from 392 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 2: one end of the bay to the other meant that 393 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 2: you're crossing this border. But the nineteen nineties brought significant 394 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:57,080 Speaker 2: change to the situation, like the creation of the European 395 00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:00,720 Speaker 2: Single Market and the Good Friday Agreement Peace Accord, which 396 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:04,320 Speaker 2: established a cross border body to regulate this area. So 397 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 2: the border infrastructure was taken down and it was no 398 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 2: longer totally clear where Northern Ireland ended and the Republic 399 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 2: of Ireland began. But Britain still claimed the water up 400 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:15,639 Speaker 2: to the high tide mark, and this was a claim 401 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 2: that was rejected by the Irish government. I Meanwhile, locals 402 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:21,440 Speaker 2: started crossing back and forth whenever they wanted. 403 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:24,080 Speaker 1: Basically, that sounds a lot easier than having to bring 404 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 1: your passport just across the lake, definitely, But there's just 405 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 1: one big remaining issue, which is oyster farming because there's 406 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:35,439 Speaker 1: no clear sovereignty over the water, there's minimal regulation, so 407 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:39,439 Speaker 1: people have been getting away with unsustainable farming practices and 408 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:41,359 Speaker 1: it's gotten a lot worse in the past ten years 409 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:44,920 Speaker 1: or so. So in twenty fourteen, the area had two 410 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:48,520 Speaker 1: thousand local oyster trestles, which are the racks used for 411 00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:52,160 Speaker 1: oyster farming. By twenty twenty one, so just seven years later, 412 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 1: there were more than sixty thousand of these two thousand 413 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 1: to sixty thousand. Disputes over which you know, country controls 414 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 1: the lock foil pop up repeatedly, and yet the problem 415 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:06,320 Speaker 1: remains unresolved, and this has caused a major impact on 416 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:09,439 Speaker 1: the local marine and even the avian life there. Okay, 417 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:12,880 Speaker 1: so this next one also involves a waterway, one that's 418 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 1: very close to home for me because it is actually 419 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:18,480 Speaker 1: in New York City. So, as my fellow New Yorkers know, 420 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:21,639 Speaker 1: the Harlem River separates the island of Manhattan from the 421 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:25,119 Speaker 1: Bronx on the mainland, right. But there is a catch, 422 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:28,080 Speaker 1: and that is the neighborhood of Marble Hill. It is 423 00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:31,400 Speaker 1: this forty two acre enclave north of the Harlem River 424 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:34,879 Speaker 1: that is in the Bronx but technically it's still a 425 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:37,919 Speaker 1: part of Manhattan, and weirdly, for almost two decades it 426 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 1: was an island unattached to any mainland. So basically, Marble 427 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,919 Speaker 1: Hill was originally a part of Manhattan, with spiden Devil 428 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:49,400 Speaker 1: Creek which flowed around it. Then in eighteen ninety five, 429 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:52,560 Speaker 1: the Harlem Rivership Canal was constructed to make it easier 430 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:56,160 Speaker 1: for boats to navigate the water surrounding Manhattan. So due 431 00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 1: to the new canal and this already existing creek, Marble 432 00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:03,119 Speaker 1: Hill became an island and it stayed that way until 433 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:06,640 Speaker 1: nineteen thirteen when the creek was filled in. Now that 434 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:11,439 Speaker 1: process physically attached to the Bronx, but geopolitically speaking, it 435 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:13,320 Speaker 1: remained part of the Borough of Manhattan. 436 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:15,440 Speaker 2: So I'm curious, like, how do residents of the Marble 437 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,439 Speaker 2: Hill feel about this? Do they identify with Manhattan or 438 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 2: more with the Bronx. 439 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a good question. So in twenty fourteen, Bronx 440 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:26,240 Speaker 1: Borough President Rubin Diaz told The New York Times quote, 441 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:29,840 Speaker 1: Marble Hill residents identify so much with the Bronx that 442 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:32,920 Speaker 1: they don't often realize they live in Manhattan until their 443 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:37,439 Speaker 1: summoned for jeury duty, but their Manhattanite status wasn't always 444 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:40,160 Speaker 1: a forgotten part of daily life. Things have actually gotten 445 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,400 Speaker 1: a little contentious over Marble Hill in the past. One 446 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 1: Bronx Borough President, James J. Lyons, actually tried to claim 447 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:48,120 Speaker 1: it in nineteen thirty nine. 448 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:49,760 Speaker 2: And how exactly did he do that? 449 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 1: Oh? The normal way. So he and his chauffeur went 450 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:55,920 Speaker 1: to the highest point of Marble Hill and they planted 451 00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 1: the Bronx County flag there. Yeah, and they also declared, 452 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:03,320 Speaker 1: quote I hereby proclaimed this territory of Marble Hill to 453 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 1: be part of my borrow. 454 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:07,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, that is definitely how you would do it. And 455 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:08,479 Speaker 2: did this work? 456 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:09,360 Speaker 3: No? 457 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:13,439 Speaker 1: The New York Times reported that one witness thumbed his 458 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:16,639 Speaker 1: nose while a handful of others' bood lions, and the 459 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:21,000 Speaker 1: message was booed him they wanted to be part of Manhattan, 460 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:25,240 Speaker 1: and subsequent petition sent to the New York Governor reinforced 461 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:29,359 Speaker 1: that stance. So it has stayed part of Manhattan, only 462 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,159 Speaker 1: for future residents not to even realize where they lived. 463 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:34,280 Speaker 2: Wow, that's another wild one. 464 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:34,959 Speaker 3: All right. 465 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,440 Speaker 2: We'll finish out for our ninth fact with an eight 466 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:41,640 Speaker 2: hundred square mile section of desert located between Egypt and Sudan. 467 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:44,639 Speaker 2: The desert is called beer to Will and its ambiguous 468 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 2: status can be blamed on British colonialism. So basically, Egypt's 469 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:52,000 Speaker 2: territory once included all of Sudan, but the British decided 470 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:54,960 Speaker 2: to divide these two countries back in eighteen ninety nine. 471 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,320 Speaker 2: Three years later, they added an amendment after realizing the 472 00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 2: original border was inconsistent with the ethnic composition in the area. 473 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 2: So this amendment gave a chunk of the coastline along 474 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:08,560 Speaker 2: the Red Sea over to Sudan. Well, Egypt got beer 475 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:12,040 Speaker 2: to Will. Now the coast has these valuable minerals like gold, 476 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:14,160 Speaker 2: so the area is worth way more than a big 477 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:17,439 Speaker 2: plot of desert where nobody really wants to live. And 478 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 2: so for that reason, the folks in Egypt said, no, 479 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 2: we disagree with that nineteen oh two version of the border. 480 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:25,400 Speaker 2: We'll stick with the one that was drawn three years earlier, 481 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,080 Speaker 2: thank you very much. So beer to Will is kind 482 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,320 Speaker 2: of collateral damage here, because if Egypt claimed it, they 483 00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:34,119 Speaker 2: would be acknowledging the border they don't agree with, and 484 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,439 Speaker 2: if Sudan claimed it, they would be going against the 485 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:39,439 Speaker 2: border drawn in nineteen oh two that they actually prefer. 486 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 1: I mean, if I had a choice between gold and desert, 487 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:44,800 Speaker 1: I'd go for the gold, right. 488 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:46,399 Speaker 2: I'm curious. I was going to ask you. 489 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:50,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, you're saying this little section of desert really has 490 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:51,320 Speaker 1: no value. 491 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,399 Speaker 2: I mean not much. It's basically just some dunes, some 492 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:57,880 Speaker 2: black rock, dry river beds. But you know, one complication 493 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:00,960 Speaker 2: is that by not claiming it, and Sudan are leaving 494 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:04,239 Speaker 2: this area open for random people to do so. So 495 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:07,160 Speaker 2: in twenty fourteen, a farmer from the US actually went 496 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 2: all the way to Berta Will and planted a flag 497 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:14,119 Speaker 2: once again, a flag for what he deemed is I know, 498 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:17,280 Speaker 2: it's really amazing, but he deemed this his new territory, 499 00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:20,400 Speaker 2: the Kingdom of North Sudan. This was all an attempt 500 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:23,480 Speaker 2: to make his daughter a princess, but that's not really 501 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 2: how things work, of course, like you have to have 502 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 2: some reasonable standing to go around claiming land and getting 503 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 2: recognized as a sovereign state, even if it's seemingly unclaimed land. 504 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:36,719 Speaker 2: Though this hasn't stopped others from trying, including an amateur 505 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:40,640 Speaker 2: radio enthusiast from Russia. This was in twenty fifteen, I think, 506 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 2: and later a barrister from South London. 507 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,480 Speaker 1: Oh, man, that is so fascinating. I feel like you 508 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:48,880 Speaker 1: and I need to like print up some flags. There's 509 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:50,919 Speaker 1: a lot of territory to claims. 510 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:52,720 Speaker 3: For that fact, I. 511 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 1: Really think you deserve today's trophy. 512 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:57,600 Speaker 2: I don't know, Mango, you had some good ones. I 513 00:26:57,600 --> 00:26:59,480 Speaker 2: actually think you deserve today's trophy. 514 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:02,480 Speaker 1: So you are saying we both claim it. 515 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 2: That's exactly what I'm saying here. It's a new dispute 516 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:06,480 Speaker 2: for the ages. 517 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:08,240 Speaker 3: Great well. 518 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 1: Of course, you are welcome to my house with flags 519 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:14,760 Speaker 1: and bottles of boos whenever you want. But that is 520 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:18,080 Speaker 1: it for today's episode. If you have a question or comment, 521 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:21,080 Speaker 1: or if you want to suggest an idea for the show, 522 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,159 Speaker 1: you can always call our hotline. It is three oh 523 00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:27,760 Speaker 1: two four oh five five nine two five. We love 524 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:30,240 Speaker 1: hearing your voicemails. You can also send us an email 525 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:33,960 Speaker 1: at high Geniuses at gmail dot com. That's Hi, Geniuses 526 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:36,520 Speaker 1: at gmail dot com. You can also find us on 527 00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:40,120 Speaker 1: Instagram and Blue Sky, where we are at part time genius. 528 00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:44,400 Speaker 1: This episode was written by our wonderful friend Meredith Danko. Meredith, 529 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 1: you are the best. We'll be back next week. But 530 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:52,119 Speaker 1: in the meantime from Will, Dylan, Gabe, Mary, and myself. 531 00:27:52,640 --> 00:28:08,920 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening. Part Time Genius is 532 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:12,040 Speaker 1: a production of Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio. It is hosted by 533 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:15,320 Speaker 1: my good pal Will Pearson, who I've known for almost 534 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,919 Speaker 1: three decades now. That is insane to me. I'm the 535 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:24,280 Speaker 1: utter co host, Mangeshatikular aka Mango. Our producer is Mary 536 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:27,040 Speaker 1: Phillips Sandy. She's actually a super producer. I'm going to 537 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:31,120 Speaker 1: fix that in post. Our writer is Gabe Lucier, who 538 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,720 Speaker 1: I've also known for like a decade at this point, 539 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,959 Speaker 1: maybe more. Dylan Fagan is in the booth. He is 540 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:40,520 Speaker 1: always dressed up, always cheering us on, and always ready 541 00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:43,240 Speaker 1: to hit record and then mix the show after he 542 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:45,920 Speaker 1: does a great job. I also want to shout out 543 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 1: the executive producers from iHeart my good pals Katrina and 544 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:53,080 Speaker 1: Norvel and Ali Perry. We have social media support from 545 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:56,280 Speaker 1: Calypso Rawless. If you like our videos, that is all 546 00:28:56,400 --> 00:29:00,520 Speaker 1: Calypso's handiwork. For more podcasts from Kaleidoscope and I Heart Radio, 547 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:02,719 Speaker 1: Visit the iHeartRadio. 548 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,200 Speaker 2: App, Apple Podcasts. 549 00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:06,720 Speaker 1: Or tune in wherever you listen to your favorite shows. 550 00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:09,760 Speaker 1: That's it from us here at part time Genius, thank 551 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:11,200 Speaker 1: you so much for listening.