1 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 1: Welcome to The Favorites, the podcast part of the Volume 2 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 1: podcast Network. I am Chad Milman of the Action Network. 3 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:19,239 Speaker 2: Today. I'm joined as always by my co. 4 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:23,920 Speaker 1: Host, my companion, Mike Cabadre, my BFF professional better Assignment hunter. 5 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:26,239 Speaker 2: Hello, sign in. 6 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 3: Hello Chad. 7 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 4: Over the weekend, I heard from my doctor who I've 8 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:33,280 Speaker 4: known for twenty years about. 9 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:35,519 Speaker 3: Our Pope Show. That's how weird He liked it. 10 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:39,160 Speaker 4: Yeah, even though after the fact, obviously, it just cracked 11 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 4: me up that my guy texted me again. He knows 12 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 4: what I've done my whole life, he knows what the 13 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:46,559 Speaker 4: podcast and everything. It never hits me up about it. 14 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:48,600 Speaker 4: He texted me, how much you enjoyed the Pope Show 15 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:51,600 Speaker 4: and just how we brought a totally different look to 16 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 4: it and how we view the market. And yeah, we 17 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 4: got pretty lucky. We at least we mentioned the name. 18 00:00:56,960 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 4: We didn't give it out as a winner, but at 19 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:01,639 Speaker 4: least the name was mentioned here on the show, So 20 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:02,959 Speaker 4: shout out to Dubunda. 21 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 1: You know what I feel like, I thought about this naturally. 22 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:08,960 Speaker 1: I thought about it from the point of view of 23 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 1: me and the Pope market. That I was highest on 24 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 1: was the dude from France from Marseille, who had a 25 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 1: three percent chance, and my logic on him, if you remember, 26 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 1: was he's an outlier candidate. He has a lot of 27 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:36,760 Speaker 1: experience with immigration, which is important to the church right 28 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 1: now and bringing together cultures from a lot of disparate 29 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 1: places where they need to grow the Catholic community. And 30 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 1: it's not going to be someone who's got the shortest dods, 31 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 1: because it's never someone who has the shortest dodds. 32 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 2: So my logic was one hundred percent right. 33 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 1: I just discounted my guy from Chicago, and I like, 34 00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 1: I have been loving, loving, like the text chain that 35 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:08,359 Speaker 1: I've had with my Chicago boys about the Pope and 36 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 1: the memes and the Annie Agar tweet where she immediately 37 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:18,440 Speaker 1: sent out the post that Chicago has a pope before 38 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:21,800 Speaker 1: it has a four thousand yard passer, and the t 39 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 1: shirts that sayd Pope, Like the video that someone did 40 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 1: of the Pope being introduced to Saint Peter's Square, to 41 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 1: the Alan Parsons project intro that used to be with 42 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:38,919 Speaker 1: the Bulls and Michael Jordan. I'm here for all of it. 43 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 1: I freaking love it. I love his brothers who just 44 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 1: keep talking about him and like are having a blast, 45 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: Like everything about it is familiar. I had an uncle 46 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 1: who lived on the southwest side of Chicago in the 47 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 1: suburbs near where he lived, and they all sound alike, 48 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 1: they all look alike. 49 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 2: I'm just I'm loving the Pope lost. 50 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:02,640 Speaker 4: It was a smart move by then. Like we talked 51 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 4: on the show, I thought they've given up on the West. 52 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 4: Clearly they have not, and that's a market they're going after. 53 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 4: So what they wanted to do is working. 54 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 3: Right. 55 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:14,840 Speaker 4: He's becoming already a sensation here in America. And I 56 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 4: joked with a buddy who's a Roman Catholic like I am. 57 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 4: You know, he always goes to eleven o'clock Mass, usually 58 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:24,080 Speaker 4: half empty. What do you think it was this weekend? 59 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 4: Check packed, packed, packed for Mother's Day. So yeah, I'm 60 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:30,639 Speaker 4: excited to see what this is going to do going forward. 61 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 4: And you know, like we joked on the show, it's 62 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 4: such a niche market. It sucked that it didn't work out. 63 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 3: Where you know, we did the show an hour later. 64 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 4: I believe we got the text from Matt Mitchell like, 65 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 4: holy shit, white smoke. But the show, if you go 66 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 4: back and listen to it's it's an interesting market and 67 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:49,839 Speaker 4: something that going forward, if me and Chack, Guy Luhn 68 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 4: or some together in twelve twenty years, I look forward 69 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 4: to our next Pope show. 70 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 2: Brother, Why wouldn't we be together? Simon? 71 00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 4: I have terrible health concerns for myself, not you. You'll 72 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 4: be fine. I don't know. 73 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 1: You know what, Simon, You and I are going to 74 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 1: be together in about two weeks because I'm coming down 75 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 1: to Philly and we're going to spend the day together. 76 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 1: Maybe we should go to Mass. Maybe we should go 77 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 1: to like an eleven am. 78 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 4: Massames as soon as I stepped through that, and we 79 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 4: will really. 80 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 1: Really pray a lapsed Catholic and a Jew walk into 81 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 1: eleven am Mass in South Jersey. 82 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:24,360 Speaker 2: What possibly could go wrong? 83 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 1: Next week, We're going to have a lengthy discussion about 84 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 1: the impact of the NFL schedule release, and I'm gonna 85 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 1: want to bring in some of the points that we 86 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 1: made in our show earlier this week that Evan noted, 87 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:40,159 Speaker 1: and see if we can start to apply some of 88 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:43,600 Speaker 1: these things and see if there are games that normally 89 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 1: we would be trapped into picking that are we changing 90 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:47,840 Speaker 1: our thinking a little bit? 91 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 2: So I'm excited for that. 92 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 1: We're also going to sit down with Jason Bennetti, the 93 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 1: broadcaster for the Detroit Tigers and nationally with Fox. Like 94 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:59,360 Speaker 1: he's been on the show before. He is so freaking good. 95 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 1: He is so funny, He is so talented. He is 96 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 1: so smart at calling games and keeping you entertained without 97 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:14,040 Speaker 1: it being intrusive, and understanding the really nitty. 98 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 2: Greedy details. 99 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 1: He used to do back in the day when he 100 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 1: was at ESPN, they would do these analytics broadcasts and 101 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 1: he was brilliant at these. So I'm excited for Jason. Today, 102 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 1: we're going to bring in Matt Mitchell. We did this 103 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:31,920 Speaker 1: show earlier in the off season and we got great response. 104 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:36,960 Speaker 1: As you can expect, people love betting history on this show. Look, 105 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 1: my entire desk, you can't see it right now, is 106 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 1: piled with betting history paraphernalia. And I'm looking at a 107 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: picture right now the guy who was the original bookmaker 108 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 1: for the Mafia, and he's it's a picture of him 109 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 1: hanging out in Cuba with a jockey and like Meyer Lansky. 110 00:05:57,120 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 1: So it's I love this stuff. Matt Mitchell is gonna 111 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 1: come on. He's gonna tell us more of the things 112 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: he's unearthed from gambling's wild history. 113 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 2: Welcome back to the show, Matt Mitchell. 114 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 5: Oh, you know, it's just an honor to shoehorn myself 115 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 5: into an off season episode chat. 116 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:22,480 Speaker 1: You've been working so hard at becoming talent. You're really 117 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 1: you're getting close. 118 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. 119 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:30,040 Speaker 4: I love on camera Mat. He's very tamed. I I 120 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:32,360 Speaker 4: feel like he's nervous. 121 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 3: He was like, am I about to say what I 122 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:36,039 Speaker 3: should say? This guy? Are we taped right now? So 123 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 3: I love on camera Mat. 124 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 5: You know what, I'll give a little look behind the curtain. 125 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 5: When we started one million years ago here, Chet was 126 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:46,559 Speaker 5: very encouraging that I do more on camera stuff, become 127 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:49,599 Speaker 5: more talent forward. That's right, I was. I wasn't as 128 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:52,920 Speaker 5: interested in mostly as an exhausted parent of too at 129 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 5: the time incredibly small children. But more than that, I 130 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:00,720 Speaker 5: don't enjoy shows where the producer tries to shoehorn themselves 131 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:04,200 Speaker 5: into the show a lot. I appreciate that wherever our 132 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:08,040 Speaker 5: beloved listeners are right now, on a yacht or a treadmill, 133 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 5: or at work, or in a subway or whatever the hell, 134 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 5: jumping on a trampoline, whatever they're doing, they're here to 135 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 5: hang out with their two friends, you know. Chad and 136 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 5: Simon and I can pop in once in a while, 137 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 5: but more importantly, if I need to kick somebody off 138 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 5: a show, not necessarily this one, but something else in 139 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 5: our network. It gets a lot harder to have those 140 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 5: conversations if you are on camera talent, because you by 141 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 5: definition of saying, I'm better than that. So it was 142 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 5: always easier to be someone whose impact was felt without 143 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 5: being seen, or whose flat rochestery accent wasn't heard on 144 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 5: these airwaves. So I appreciate. 145 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 1: That funny because we know that his position has clearly changed, 146 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 1: because if you've been in one of the live shows, 147 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 1: you know, Matt just takes it over and Simon and 148 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 1: I become background noise for the entire event. Matt, we 149 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 1: just talked a little bit about betting the papacy. Did 150 00:07:56,960 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 1: you bet on who would become the Pope? 151 00:07:59,440 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 3: Yeah? 152 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 5: Well, you two jag offs we're talking in that episode. 153 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 5: I was. I realized that the market would close at 154 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 5: the top of that that hour, so I need to 155 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 5: get my bets in and I'm going through and I 156 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 5: only wanted to bet, you know, twenty to one or 157 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 5: higher for all the reasons we outlined in that episode. 158 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 5: I'm doing foreign dudes, no Americans. That that felt ridiculous, 159 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 5: and I opened up Bob's odds. I'm trying to find 160 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 5: ages in locations. Oh sixty nine years old, Oh, Chicago, Illinois. 161 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 5: No way. I opened it up, could have bet it 162 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:35,440 Speaker 5: and said, no way, make a couple more. I opened 163 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 5: up one more guy, Cardinal Burke. Oh, he's from Wisconsin. 164 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 5: I mean, well, I'll put ten bucks on this guy. 165 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:47,439 Speaker 5: I threw away money on an American papal candidate that 166 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 5: wasn't the right one. Four minutes for the market closed. 167 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 5: I will be haunted forever, but at least we got 168 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 5: a pope who has ben and said my two favorite 169 00:08:55,720 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 5: restaurants Wah wah and Portillo's. So I feel like he'll 170 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:03,079 Speaker 5: have my best interested heart despite not being a Catholic 171 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 5: at all. But yeah, I wish him the very best. 172 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 1: My god, it's great, all right, Matt Mitchell subject number 173 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:18,319 Speaker 1: one in How Sports Betting Explained the World, there's a 174 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 1: really famous book called How Soccer Explains the World. 175 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 2: The writer who's brilliant. 176 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 1: His name is Franklin for and he writes for the Atlantic, 177 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 1: but in his previous years he has written for a 178 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 1: bunch of different magazines, and newspapers. At one point he 179 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 1: was the eder in chief of the New Republic and 180 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 1: it was a seminole book and sort of just the 181 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:48,960 Speaker 1: title alone defines the framing of something really small explaining 182 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 1: something really big. And he wrote this book called How 183 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 1: Soccer Explains the World. So I think about this as 184 00:09:57,400 --> 00:10:01,680 Speaker 1: the how Betting Explains the World episode. Your first topic 185 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 1: America's lottery fever, Matt Mitchell, The flora is yours. 186 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:10,120 Speaker 5: Love that framing. Great job, great hosting, as always, Chad, 187 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:14,560 Speaker 5: thank you well. As you can imagine from its very founding, 188 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:19,200 Speaker 5: America has loved betting, and who couldn't. But one of 189 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 5: the hardest parts of having a new and pretty large 190 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 5: nation is collecting money, collecting tax revenue. We as Americans, 191 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 5: we would rather be throwing tea into a harbor than 192 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 5: paying our taxes. That hasn't changed. So within the first 193 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 5: couple decades of America's birth, if the government wanted to 194 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 5: finance a large public project, they did the smart thing. 195 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:46,720 Speaker 5: They ran lotteries. They turned tax collection into gambling. And 196 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:49,680 Speaker 5: if you've ever wondered how, like very old East Coast 197 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 5: cities like New York and Philadelphia, how they got so 198 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 5: nice even before eighteen hundred, those two cities alone, just 199 00:10:57,240 --> 00:11:01,679 Speaker 5: isolating those two they financed public projects using more than 200 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:06,839 Speaker 5: two thousand state authorized lotteries. They were all over it. 201 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 5: So I've got a couple of my favorite lottery examples. 202 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:14,960 Speaker 2: You guys ready, I am ready, simon, are you ready? 203 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 3: Let's do it all right. 204 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 5: So, when they were literally draining the swamp to build Washington, 205 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 5: d C. They financed a lot of that construction through 206 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 5: federal lotteries. And the first of these huge federal lottos 207 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:34,679 Speaker 5: offered a big grand prize a building called Blodget's Hotel. 208 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:37,600 Speaker 5: If you won this lottery, you would win this big 209 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:40,959 Speaker 5: ass building. And the first ticket in that big lotto 210 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 5: was purchased by George Washington, so we know that he 211 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 5: gambled at least one time. In fun fact, twenty years later, 212 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 5: when those disgusting, filthy Brits burned down a lot of Washington, 213 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 5: d C. In the War of eighteen twelve, that building 214 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 5: bloge It's Hotel, and I would end up serving as 215 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:05,839 Speaker 5: the temporary home of Congress And although Logit's Hotel that 216 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:09,560 Speaker 5: would also eventually burn down years later, the Hotel Monaco 217 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:14,679 Speaker 5: in DC stands there now in the shadow of Capital 218 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:18,320 Speaker 5: One Arena where the Washington Capitals will be playing a 219 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 5: playoff game this very evening. 220 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:25,920 Speaker 1: How betting explains the world right there? You know, we 221 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 1: had David schwartz On who who wrote the book Roll 222 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 1: the Bones, that we get a lot of that we 223 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:34,840 Speaker 1: steal a lot of these ideas from. I remember interviewing 224 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 1: him fifteen sixteen years ago in the library at UNLV 225 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 1: where the gaming research studies are done, talking about the 226 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 1: hypocrisy of state by state, everybody allowing lotteries but not 227 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 1: allowing sports betting. And honestly, it was in that moment 228 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 1: in the library where I realized this shit's going to 229 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 1: be legal. Like, at the end of the day, it's 230 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 1: too much money to leave on the table for every 231 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:08,440 Speaker 1: state that needs more and more money every single year. 232 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 1: If we've been doing it since the beginning of the Republic, 233 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 1: it's just a matter of time. Lotteries to sports betting. 234 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 1: Nicely done, Matt Mitchell. 235 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 5: Yeah, if we could just pay our federal state taxes 236 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:23,160 Speaker 5: in the form of scratchers, I feel like we'd solve 237 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:26,439 Speaker 5: a big part of our deficit right there. So here's another. 238 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 2: Example, by the way, did George Washington win the hotel. 239 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:31,960 Speaker 5: He did not. In fact, I think the guy that 240 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 5: fronted that scheme blotch it. I think that ended up 241 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 5: going belly up and he ended up in Debtors' prison. 242 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:40,840 Speaker 5: But I can't remember the details of that one, but 243 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:44,080 Speaker 5: we'll just celebrate it as a big victory USA number one. 244 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:45,720 Speaker 2: Debtor's prison was a big thing. 245 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 1: I just finished reading the book The Gambler, probably one 246 00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:55,040 Speaker 1: of my favorite authors. His name is Dostoevsky. In The Gambler, 247 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 1: Debtor's prison was a big thing. If you wrote an 248 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:02,839 Speaker 1: iou you piece of paper like that was as good 249 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:05,959 Speaker 1: as a contractor. If you cannot pay that, you went 250 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 1: into prison and you were there until someone paid your debt. Obviously, 251 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:12,719 Speaker 1: The Gamblers a novel, but he was Debtor's prison in 252 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 1: that window of time seemed to be a really big thing. 253 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:18,480 Speaker 5: I feel like the Milwaukee Box and Cleveland Kevalis are 254 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 5: working as hard as they can to put me in 255 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 5: Debtor's prison this spring, so I can appreciate the feeling. 256 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:29,560 Speaker 1: What is the over under on the number of air udite, 257 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 1: potentially arrogant literary references I can make on the show. 258 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 5: Just Oh, just your Way there's so many more opportunities 259 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 5: for you. You'll do. You're very smart and handsome. 260 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 2: Thank you. 261 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 5: All right. So we've discussed that lotteries became essentially the 262 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 5: first solution to any American problem. Here's another one. So 263 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 5: Thomas Jefferson is dying and he's got a han a debt. 264 00:14:57,600 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 5: Debts are super high. He had a lot of people 265 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 5: a lot money, and so they arranged a lottery to 266 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:06,480 Speaker 5: raise money for his daughter Martha. And the three prizes 267 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 5: for this lottery were going to be three of Jefferson's properties, 268 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 5: and the grand prize was going to be Monticello, And 269 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 5: for those unfamiliar, if you have any loose change in 270 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 5: your pocket, that's the picture on the back of the 271 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 5: US nickel. It's a pretty fucking famous house. So that 272 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 5: was going to be the grand prize of top three 273 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 5: prizes in this lottery. But obviously Jefferson was incredibly famous 274 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 5: and had a lot of wealthy friends, and a lottery 275 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 5: for his property and belongings is pretty humiliating. So they 276 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 5: tried to pull their money together to buy it, and 277 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:43,800 Speaker 5: that didn't work. And then the lottery that they arranged 278 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:48,240 Speaker 5: sold sofie tickets. They basically canceled it, and eventually Martha 279 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:51,000 Speaker 5: just sold the house for a fraction of its value. 280 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 5: And were these kind of lotteries? Were they above board? 281 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 5: Sometimes sometimes not? For example, thirty years after that first 282 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 5: log It's hotel Federal lottery that I just mentioned, they 283 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 5: ran another one for a beautification project, and the manager 284 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 5: who ran it sold all the tickets. He announces a 285 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 5: winning number, does all the things he's supposed to do, 286 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:15,240 Speaker 5: except he took all the money and disappeared. They I 287 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:18,160 Speaker 5: don't believe they ever found him. And usually the attitude, 288 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:20,320 Speaker 5: because it's America, was like, dah, you know what, what 289 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 5: can you do that? You pay your money and you 290 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 5: takes your chances, and sometimes you know that's life. Buyer 291 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 5: beware buy, hey, buyer, beware man. Sometimes you know it's 292 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 5: not a ticket I bought, it's just an old cracker 293 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 5: or whatever. But this time the guy that wins was 294 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 5: furious because the grand prize was one hundred thousand dollars, 295 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 5: which today would be two point seven million dollars. And 296 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:43,640 Speaker 5: they said, hey, listen, you know we don't have any 297 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 5: of the money. The guy stole it. So this guy 298 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 5: files a lawsuit. He fights it for four full years, 299 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:54,560 Speaker 5: and eventually the United States Supreme Court orders the City 300 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 5: of DC to pay him the money, so you can 301 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 5: fight city hall. And he did get his money. And 302 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:04,359 Speaker 5: you'd think that that scandal would make people less interested 303 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:09,200 Speaker 5: in lotteries, right, No. Shortly after that, one newspaper estimated 304 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:14,440 Speaker 5: that the top eight cities alone sold almost seventy million 305 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:18,840 Speaker 5: dollars worth of lottery tickets, which is five times larger 306 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:23,480 Speaker 5: than the entire federal budget at the time. But unfortunately, 307 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:26,720 Speaker 5: the fraud did worry a lot of regulators and state governments, 308 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:30,119 Speaker 5: so within about ten years, state lottos were illegal in 309 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 5: almost every state. But that is the some of the 310 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:36,159 Speaker 5: fun anecdotes from our early obsession with the. 311 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:38,240 Speaker 2: Lottery country boats on gambling. 312 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 1: The yingingyang of our puritanical values and our need to 313 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 1: risk it all to win big is a constant theme 314 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:53,959 Speaker 1: throughout the building of our democracy. 315 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:57,320 Speaker 5: One of the best anecdotes they had from Did Schwartz, 316 00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 5: author of Roll the Bones, fabulous book, was how many 317 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 5: blottery offices there were in New York, and they were 318 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:07,359 Speaker 5: even more in Philadelphia, and even puritanical Boston had fifty, 319 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:09,480 Speaker 5: Like there are still a few in Boston even though 320 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:12,320 Speaker 5: they hated gambling there. You can't keep the gamblers down. 321 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 5: They're always going to crawl out of the woodwork. 322 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:21,359 Speaker 1: No one knows self loathing better than Bostonians. That's exactly right, Matt. 323 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:25,920 Speaker 1: Can you please give us your next story? 324 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:29,520 Speaker 5: This week is the second leg of horse racing's Triple 325 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:33,359 Speaker 5: Crown Preak Mistakes at Pimlico, and I want to give 326 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 5: another nod to the ponies and their crucial role in 327 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 5: the popularization of sports betting worldwide, because Chad, obviously on 328 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 5: a recent episode you referenced the origin of the term handicapping, 329 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:49,720 Speaker 5: which comes from British horse racing in the seventeen hundreds, 330 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 5: before the establishment of odds based wagering, the performance of 331 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:58,119 Speaker 5: a faster horse was literally handicapped by placing weights on 332 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:00,720 Speaker 5: them during a race to kind of even things out. 333 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:04,160 Speaker 5: You know, the bigger the perceived favorite, the heavier the weights, 334 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:07,119 Speaker 5: the kind of quote bigger the handicap. I want to 335 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 5: talk about another phrase. So after odds making on horses 336 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 5: was common in the early eighteen hundreds, that paved the 337 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 5: way for establishments known as commission offices or racing banks. 338 00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 5: But what we hear on the show would call the 339 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:27,920 Speaker 5: OTB off track betting. If you've never been to an OTB, Chad, 340 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 5: how would you describe it? 341 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 1: I would describe it as a gloriously sad, dingy, dirty 342 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 1: for Micah floored, fluorescent lit single room that if you 343 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 1: walked by it on the street, as I have many 344 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 1: many times in New York, you might think it was 345 00:19:56,680 --> 00:20:02,119 Speaker 1: a storefront that was for lease because there's so little 346 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:06,960 Speaker 1: signage and it's so sort of uninviting inside. 347 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:10,120 Speaker 5: That sounds rich. Simon, you've been doing OTB. 348 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:13,200 Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, never an America, only in England. It's equally 349 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 3: as depressing. In both places. 350 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 5: It's a magical place and they are there is a 351 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:19,879 Speaker 5: ubiquity to them. It is a great place if you 352 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:22,919 Speaker 5: have six dollars to lose, but want to make that 353 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:26,520 Speaker 5: take an hour and a half. So otbs are springing 354 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,000 Speaker 5: up all over the place, and it's where betting on 355 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:33,440 Speaker 5: the Ponies started to transition from this like sportive kings 356 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:37,840 Speaker 5: and wealthy elites to something that like ordinary people could 357 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:41,359 Speaker 5: finally participate in. So it used to just be guys 358 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 5: that like if you closed your eyes and said, like 359 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 5: picture the King of England or Chad Milman, it was 360 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:49,159 Speaker 5: guys like that that used to be the only people betting, 361 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:53,240 Speaker 5: and thanks to otbs, it could finally include people that 362 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 5: looked more like Bert the Dick van Dyk character from 363 00:20:56,280 --> 00:21:02,920 Speaker 5: Mary Poppins, or Simon and his ancestors Jim Jimminee, Jim Jimminee, 364 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:04,159 Speaker 5: Jim Jim Cheru. 365 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:09,639 Speaker 2: I does what I likes, and I likes well I do. 366 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 3: Yeah. 367 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 5: There was an egalitarianism to being able to wager away 368 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:18,480 Speaker 5: from the track, and some of these locations were big, 369 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:22,320 Speaker 5: sharp operations, and of course some of these were very dodgy, 370 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,680 Speaker 5: called you know, mayfly operations, because in some of these 371 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:28,520 Speaker 5: shittier places, you know, they might need a heavy favorite 372 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:32,480 Speaker 5: to lose a race, to quote Bob Scucci, fur their lungs, 373 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 5: and if that favorite ended up winning, they might just 374 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 5: shut down, not open the next day and just leave town. 375 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:43,879 Speaker 5: But in both places they're quickly emerged another character that 376 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:47,400 Speaker 5: the three of us know even better today than they 377 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:51,959 Speaker 5: did then, the tout. This was the creation of the 378 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:56,080 Speaker 5: tout the tipster, because basically as soon as these British 379 00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 5: otbs opened in the early eighteen hundreds, they offered print 380 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:03,359 Speaker 5: cuvere of the races, and as soon as there was coverage. 381 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:09,879 Speaker 5: There were guys advertising subscription tallet services that guaranteed gambling 382 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 5: profits the Victorian era. Bretts Chad just like us. 383 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:15,120 Speaker 2: Listen, Matt. 384 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:19,160 Speaker 1: I think for everyone listening, they should know that there 385 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 1: will be a third of the final exam will be 386 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 1: on horse racing, the importance of the daily racing form, 387 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:33,119 Speaker 1: in the interconnectivity of the OTBS, the formation of the OTBS, 388 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:36,360 Speaker 1: and how that led to broader sports betting throughout the country. 389 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:38,520 Speaker 1: All of that, there's going to be an essay on 390 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:40,720 Speaker 1: that that everyone can write in their blue books. 391 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:42,400 Speaker 5: I was gonna say, I had my blue book ready. 392 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 5: I'll be ready to go, King. 393 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,560 Speaker 1: Simon and Matt, can you remember the name of the 394 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 1: person who owned the daily racing form that helped propel 395 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:55,040 Speaker 1: the information economy around sports betting? 396 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 2: I mentioned it in a previous show. 397 00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:01,159 Speaker 3: Oh I can't do that, Mo and No. 398 00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 2: Former owner of the Philadelphia in Choir. 399 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:05,080 Speaker 3: I believe. 400 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:11,160 Speaker 1: Film throughout the causes throughout the city of Philadelphia actually unions. 401 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:15,600 Speaker 1: The train station in Philly might be like the Annenberg 402 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 1: Hall or something. I'll figure it out when I'm there 403 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:21,200 Speaker 1: in a couple of weeks. I'll tell you when I 404 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:21,840 Speaker 1: get out of the train. 405 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:23,320 Speaker 3: I gotta say, check from this show. 406 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 4: The most amazing thing I'm going to take away from 407 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 4: is the fact that our fraud government was less corrupt 408 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:30,199 Speaker 4: back then it is today. I can't imagine if our 409 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:33,200 Speaker 4: government owed some guy in the news making bad headlines 410 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:35,400 Speaker 4: about them two million dollars, that guy would just disappear 411 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:36,440 Speaker 4: back then. 412 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,480 Speaker 3: They paid him. I'm so shocked by that. So yeah, 413 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 3: as always loved Matt Mitchell. 414 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:44,399 Speaker 5: I think this is a good example of something we 415 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:46,400 Speaker 5: talked a lot about a couple of weeks ago, which 416 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 5: is that there's this idea, especially in America, that these 417 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:53,480 Speaker 5: betting phenomena are like a newer thing, when in fact 418 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:58,120 Speaker 5: they're very, very old. Like check this out. The lawnmower, 419 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:04,639 Speaker 5: the sewing machine, the electric telegraph, refrigeration, all of these 420 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:09,480 Speaker 5: are newer inventions than the subscription tout service. Like these 421 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:13,320 Speaker 5: are very old ideas. And one final thing on this 422 00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:16,639 Speaker 5: before we move off. Victorian era Britain, named for the 423 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:19,720 Speaker 5: reign of Queen Victoria, who's queen for like the last 424 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:24,680 Speaker 5: sixty years of the eighteen hundreds, one of history's preeminent haters. 425 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,800 Speaker 5: Not a barrel of laughs and Britain would make otbs 426 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 5: illegal in eighteen fifty three. They just basically became a 427 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:33,760 Speaker 5: giant black market. But I want to shout out her 428 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:36,960 Speaker 5: oldest son very much, a friend of the show, who'd 429 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 5: become King Edward the Seventh when she died in nineteen 430 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:43,320 Speaker 5: oh one. This guy loved betting, and he said that 431 00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 5: because horse racing was quote a manly sport that is 432 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:50,159 Speaker 5: popular with englishmen of all classes, there was no reason 433 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:52,720 Speaker 5: to restrict gambling on it. And so he may have 434 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:55,800 Speaker 5: looked a little bit weird, maybe because his parents were 435 00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,720 Speaker 5: first cousins. It's none of my business, but friend of 436 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:01,440 Speaker 5: the show, the people's king, shout out to him. 437 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 1: All right, Matt, last one, you have a story that 438 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 1: involves a famous Russian gambler. Gosh, I wish I had 439 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:13,119 Speaker 1: read the script, because now is where I could have 440 00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:17,080 Speaker 1: dropped in my Dostoevsky reference. 441 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:21,400 Speaker 5: I do want to again stress to any listeners how 442 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 5: little Chad prepares that how much of this show is 443 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 5: the work of people you don't see or hear, Because 444 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:28,880 Speaker 5: obviously I'm going. 445 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 2: To talk about we're seeing him constantly. Now he can't. 446 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:35,439 Speaker 2: He doesn't want to be on the show yet. We 447 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 2: can't get him off the show, so you know, take 448 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:39,680 Speaker 2: that for what you will. 449 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 5: Wow, if only the listeners of the podcast would hear 450 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:45,480 Speaker 5: the sarcasm that I'll so surely cut out of this episode. 451 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:50,040 Speaker 5: Ah all right, So a lot of very famous Russians 452 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 5: love to gamble. There's one thing that they know a 453 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:55,879 Speaker 5: lot about, and that's suffering. So obviously they're special to 454 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 5: gamblers of all nationalities. For example, Leo Tolstoy, the writer 455 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:03,119 Speaker 5: in Peace, he once lost a fortune at the German 456 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:08,760 Speaker 5: spa town of Bodenboden. But Tolstoy can't compare to our friend, 457 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:14,919 Speaker 5: renowned Russian novelist Theodor Dostovsky. To my credit, incredible. 458 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:20,040 Speaker 1: It doesn't say Dustyevsky in the script that I got, 459 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:21,960 Speaker 1: It just says Russian gambler. 460 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 2: Story. 461 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 5: Full credit to you, Shame on me. You're doing a 462 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:30,119 Speaker 5: great job and are very smart and handsome. So, to 463 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 5: make a long story short, when Theodor Dostovski was in 464 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:36,960 Speaker 5: his thirties, he was pretty critical of the Russian government, 465 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 5: which I wouldn't recommend really then or now. And he 466 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 5: gets sentenced to death by firing squad. But he gets 467 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:47,360 Speaker 5: that sentence commuted and instead, he's got to do eight 468 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:51,680 Speaker 5: years of hard labor and then military service in Siberia. 469 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:54,359 Speaker 5: It's a step up from a firing squad, but obviously 470 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:57,880 Speaker 5: not not a barrelo laughs. While in Siberia he does 471 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 5: what we would do, and that's gamble a lot with 472 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,520 Speaker 5: the fellas, and obviously that was, you know, to helped 473 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:06,720 Speaker 5: you pass some of the time. But he also does 474 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:09,760 Speaker 5: what every good Russian you know has always done, suffer 475 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,639 Speaker 5: and suffer and suffer some more. He's now a gambling 476 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 5: enthusiast and long suffering. And to connect it back to 477 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,800 Speaker 5: earlier in the show, once those eight years in Siberia 478 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:23,360 Speaker 5: are over, if you look up a portrait of Dostovsky, 479 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 5: like if you just go to his Wikipedia page, he 480 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,840 Speaker 5: looks a lot like all of the guys you run 481 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 5: into at any otb. It's like, exactly if you, like, 482 00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 5: I have never been to one, what of the guys 483 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:38,160 Speaker 5: look like? Just look up Theodora Dostavski. Anyway, after he's 484 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:41,080 Speaker 5: out of Siberia, he makes his first visit to one 485 00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:44,840 Speaker 5: of those fun German spa towns like Tolstoy had been too. 486 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:47,760 Speaker 5: And at first, stop me, if you've heard a story 487 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:50,439 Speaker 5: like this before. At first he wins a bunch of money, 488 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:54,080 Speaker 5: but once he gets to baden Baden, he loses a 489 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,399 Speaker 5: ton of money. And there's this great description of his betting. 490 00:27:57,920 --> 00:27:59,800 Speaker 5: I think this will sound familiar to lots of people. 491 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:04,119 Speaker 5: To quote Roll the Bones, he played in a state 492 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:09,960 Speaker 5: of grim agitation, his creative mind exponentially magnifying every win 493 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:13,200 Speaker 5: and every loss. This guy sounds like a riot. 494 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,480 Speaker 1: You should read The Gambler. I just read it literally 495 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,600 Speaker 1: two weeks ago. It's slims, so you should be able 496 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:21,399 Speaker 1: to handle it quickly. 497 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:23,800 Speaker 5: I can actually tell you how many fucker words it is. 498 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:27,000 Speaker 5: Sixty thousand words. It's exactly half as many words as 499 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:30,760 Speaker 5: crime and Punishment. But we'll get to that. So the 500 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:35,520 Speaker 5: next year, more suffering his wife dies than his brother dies, 501 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:39,680 Speaker 5: and because of debtor's prison and those regulations, he inherits 502 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,840 Speaker 5: all of his brother's debt. So he needs money, so 503 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 5: he signs a publishing deal and he has to deliver 504 00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:47,959 Speaker 5: a book in the next eighteen months, and if he doesn't, 505 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:50,000 Speaker 5: he's going to get a huge fine, and he's going 506 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:51,920 Speaker 5: to lose the rights to all of his other books. 507 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,680 Speaker 5: And he's in the middle of writing Crime and punishment, 508 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:56,760 Speaker 5: but it won't be done in time because Chad, as 509 00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:00,760 Speaker 5: you know, it's like ten billion pages long. Yeah, So 510 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 5: our boy fyodor he's backed into a corner and then 511 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:06,280 Speaker 5: he feels like he's been set on fire, and he 512 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:09,560 Speaker 5: gets a great idea. He hires a twenty year old 513 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:14,680 Speaker 5: stenographer named Anna. Great idea. Then in just four days 514 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:18,760 Speaker 5: he dictates that entire novel to her, which spoiler alert 515 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:22,440 Speaker 5: would become the classic novel The Gambler, and it gets 516 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 5: him out of his jam, and then he marries Ana 517 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 5: the stenographer. Hey, great job. Game balls all around for Fyodora, 518 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,480 Speaker 5: but he's still a gambling addict and he still owes 519 00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:34,760 Speaker 5: all of his brother's debts. So he does the right 520 00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:37,720 Speaker 5: thing here and he skips down. He heads out on 521 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:41,840 Speaker 5: a promotional tour, and soon he winds up in and Boden, 522 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:45,120 Speaker 5: the casino town in Germany. I wonder what's gonna happen there, guys. 523 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:49,320 Speaker 5: He starts betting like a complete fucking maniac. He sits 524 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,760 Speaker 5: down and wins forty times his money at roulette. Almost 525 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,960 Speaker 5: right away, Anna the stenographer wife is like, hey, why 526 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:57,840 Speaker 5: don't we get the fuck out of here? And he 527 00:29:57,960 --> 00:29:59,840 Speaker 5: knows he has to get out of here. He does not. 528 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:02,880 Speaker 5: He loses all of the money that he won than 529 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:05,840 Speaker 5: all the money that he has. Then he sells his clothes, 530 00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:08,560 Speaker 5: makes his wife sell all of her shit. They lose 531 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:12,920 Speaker 5: that money total, washed out, degenerate situation, and then he 532 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 5: continues later traveling betting more strains his marriage. But our 533 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:23,840 Speaker 5: story here has a very nineteenth century Russian solution. A ghost. 534 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 5: When he's fifty years old, Theodor's dead father appears to 535 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:31,760 Speaker 5: him in a dream and scares the absolute shit out 536 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:35,600 Speaker 5: of him and warns him of impending doom. And it works, 537 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:39,480 Speaker 5: It actually works, he writes to his wife, He apologizes, 538 00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:43,520 Speaker 5: He promises to focus only on writing. He promises to 539 00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 5: never gamble again, and thanks to the spooky ghost of 540 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:52,080 Speaker 5: his dead Russian father, he never gambles again. 541 00:30:53,760 --> 00:31:00,360 Speaker 1: Matt, you are our very own Dostoevsky. A life eventless suffering, Chad, 542 00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:08,440 Speaker 1: That's exactly what I was thinking. Brilliant, brilliant storytelling, suffused 543 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:14,880 Speaker 1: with long, simmering, gestating suffering, My pleasure to serve and. 544 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:15,880 Speaker 3: A good lesson for kids. 545 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,880 Speaker 4: Chad, You'll never be a winning gambler if you eventually quit. 546 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:24,360 Speaker 5: Jesus, there's not enough ghosts. There's not enough ghosts to 547 00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:25,320 Speaker 5: visit the three of us. 548 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:29,880 Speaker 1: Oh my god, that is too funny. Matt Mitchell, that 549 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:32,160 Speaker 1: was great. I'm so excited for you to go back 550 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:34,719 Speaker 1: to producing and then find a way to wiggle your 551 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:35,480 Speaker 1: way on the show. 552 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:37,960 Speaker 5: Oh it's just a pleasure to share a zoom screen 553 00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:40,680 Speaker 5: with someone so smart and handsome. Thank you so much 554 00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:41,360 Speaker 5: for having me on. 555 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:46,960 Speaker 1: See you're saying it with sarcasm, but I internalize it 556 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:48,880 Speaker 1: and think, huh he could. 557 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:53,440 Speaker 5: Be right, and so so many good ideas as well. Incredible, Yeah, 558 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:55,680 Speaker 5: and well read. So literate. 559 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 1: That's right, so literate, the most literate sports betting podcast 560 00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:00,440 Speaker 1: in America. 561 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:01,080 Speaker 5: And you know what. 562 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:03,760 Speaker 1: We will return with our next episode of The Favorites 563 00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:07,000 Speaker 1: Tuesday on the Action Network YouTube page. Download us from Spotify, 564 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:09,440 Speaker 1: Apple podcast, wherever you get your pods, rate review, subscribe, 565 00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:11,960 Speaker 1: We with spotstars say whatever you want, feedback is you 566 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:13,640 Speaker 1: get Until next time, Love you. 567 00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:23,560 Speaker 5: Action Network reminds you please gamble responsibly. 568 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,800 Speaker 2: If you or someone you care about has a gambling problem, 569 00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:29,720 Speaker 2: help is available twenty four to seven at one eight 570 00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:30,560 Speaker 2: hundred Gambler