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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: it's affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio, where we talk

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Speaker 2: true crime all the time. Tonight is Sunday, June first,

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Speaker 2: and it's our first official live show and we have

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Speaker 2: a stacked night of headlines. Another former employee of Ditty

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Speaker 2: turns against him. Week four of the trial lies ahead,

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Speaker 2: New claims and the Idaho College murders. Could the killer

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Speaker 2: still be out there? And the prosecution rests in the

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Speaker 2: Karen Reid retrial. I'm Stephanie Leidecker and I head U

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Speaker 2: KAT Studios where we make true crime podcasts and documentaries

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Speaker 2: and I get to do that with Courtney Armstrong, hour

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Speaker 2: producer and crime analyst.

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Speaker 3: Body move in. So Ladies night one.

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Speaker 2: So there is so much to unpack and Body, let's

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Speaker 2: start with you.

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Speaker 3: Where should we begin? First case of the first show? Wow?

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Speaker 4: Okay, So let's just die right in now if you

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Speaker 4: haven't been following along, and what's happening with Diddy or

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Speaker 4: what he's being accused of by basically the United States

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Speaker 4: of America, the federal government is prosecuting him. So if

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Speaker 4: you haven't been paying attention, I'm just going to bring

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Speaker 4: you up to speed very very quickly, so that moving

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Speaker 4: forward you can just kind of like follow along where

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Speaker 4: you left off. So Sean Ditty Combs is being charged

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Speaker 4: with sex trafficking and racketeering, and a lot of times

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Speaker 4: when you're thinking about racketeering, you're thinking about the mafia

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Speaker 4: and whatnot, and we're going to get into that a

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Speaker 4: little bit later, but just kind of keeping the back

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Speaker 4: of your mind about what he's being charged with and

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Speaker 4: what the federal government is saying is that he used

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Speaker 4: his influence and money and power to perform all these

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Speaker 4: illegal acts, and he used a criminal enterprise to do so.

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Speaker 4: He additionally is being charged with sex trafficking, which we

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Speaker 4: all kind of know what that means without getting into

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Speaker 4: like the nitty gritty, because we are on the radio,

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Speaker 4: we have to be careful. So where we are right

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Speaker 4: now is last week on Friday, a woman that went

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Speaker 4: by the name of Mia. She is a former assistant

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Speaker 4: to Ditty and she worked for him for like eight years,

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Speaker 4: for like a really long time. She was his assistant

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Speaker 4: and she was hired to like anticipate all of Ditty's

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Speaker 4: needs and probably not realizing how you know, insane he

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Speaker 4: would turn out to be. She was really happy to

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Speaker 4: be taking this job, and you know she's in the

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Speaker 4: music industry. Well, she said the highs were really high

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Speaker 4: and the lows are really low. She testified that sometimes

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Speaker 4: she didn't sleep for days while working for Ditty. She

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Speaker 4: testified that sometimes she went five days and she would

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Speaker 4: live on adderall just to make it through the week.

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Speaker 2: And they would basically allegedly pump her and others.

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Speaker 3: Full of drugs.

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Speaker 2: Right, so this was a bubble that allegedly and Diddy controlled.

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Speaker 2: And if you don't know who Diddy is, I was

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Speaker 2: explaining this to my mom and just for her. Really,

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Speaker 2: he's a clarity, you know. Sean Combs is also known

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Speaker 2: as Diddy. He's also known as Puff Daddy. He's gone

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Speaker 2: by love back in the day, and look, he was

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Speaker 2: a very huge deal.

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Speaker 3: He's a mogul and entrepreneur, assive.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he ran or runs Bad Boy Records, right, he

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Speaker 2: was the founder. And this is really a fall from grace,

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Speaker 2: if ever there was one.

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Speaker 4: Right, I mean, how humiliating, especially the details of these stories,

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Speaker 4: like it's got to be humiliating, but you know what,

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Speaker 4: if any of it is true, shame on him. He

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Speaker 4: deserves the humiliation. So Mia testified about several ways in

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Speaker 4: which Combes was violent with her as well. He would

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Speaker 4: throw things at me. He's thrown me against the wall,

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Speaker 4: he's thrown me into a pool, and he's thrown ice

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Speaker 4: buckets on my head. She also testified that he has

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Speaker 4: sexually assaulted her on more than one occasion.

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Speaker 3: Like, so think about this.

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Speaker 2: This is an employee and that's I think a big

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Speaker 2: piece of this case in terms of the racketeering versus

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Speaker 2: him being discharged for domestic violence, right for sexual assault,

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Speaker 2: which would be I think a state charge.

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Speaker 3: This is federal.

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Speaker 2: So this is the big dogs coming in. They raided

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Speaker 2: his house both in Miami and in bel Air, and

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Speaker 2: it is not looking very promising because person after person

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Speaker 2: after person keeps, you know, corroborating a very similar story

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Speaker 2: of violence and this controlling environment that was really hard

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Speaker 2: to escape.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and they felt really kind of emboldened to stay

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Speaker 4: there too, because this is her big break, Like she's

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Speaker 4: you know, in the music industry. Now you know, he's

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Speaker 4: got money and power and he could root her. Mia

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Speaker 4: is only one of four assistants who have testified against

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Speaker 4: Diti so far. I mean, wow, four assistants have testified

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Speaker 4: against him. In fact, the next one or the one

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Speaker 4: that testified prior to Mia, her name was Capricorn Clark,

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Speaker 4: and she testified on May twenty seventh, and she said

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Speaker 4: that she witnessed a lot of violence and threats and

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Speaker 4: while working for him, and that he told her he

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Speaker 4: would throw her into the East River if she failed

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Speaker 4: a five day light detector test.

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Speaker 3: Can you imagine.

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Speaker 4: Well, he locked her in a room with a bodyguard.

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Speaker 4: So here's the thing with this, and this is why

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Speaker 4: it's so important. It's kidnapping. That's kidnapping, and that is

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Speaker 4: a predicate for Rico in order to prove this racketeering,

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Speaker 4: which is you know, Rico, you have to have two

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Speaker 4: predicate acts and kidnapping is one of them. So that's

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Speaker 4: a check mark for the federal government. Okay, there's one.

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Speaker 4: So he's being charged with this, Rico. This is a

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Speaker 4: really big deal. So she also said that she was

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Speaker 4: forced to force to accompany Colmbs to confront rivaling musician

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Speaker 4: Kid Cutty. And we know that kid Cutty testified as well,

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Speaker 4: so she's cooperating things that Kid Cutty said, so that

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Speaker 4: she was a very important once you guys like and

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Speaker 4: super important, and.

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Speaker 3: Kid Cutty just too.

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Speaker 5: Because there are a lot of players and there have

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Speaker 5: been a lot of people testifying over these weeks. Kid

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Speaker 5: Cutty comes into play because he was seeing Ditty's ex girlfriend,

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Speaker 5: Cassie Ventura for a while and Cassie Ventura was the

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Speaker 5: first woman who came to testify and kind of got

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Speaker 5: this whole ball rolling.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely she did, right, And here's the other this is

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Speaker 4: another reason why Capricorn is so important. She also testified

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Speaker 4: that she was forced to procure legal and prescription drugs

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Speaker 4: for homes. That's drug trafficking. Another predicate.

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Speaker 3: That's two. That's all they need.

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Speaker 4: That's all they need is too predicate acts to charge

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Speaker 4: in convict him of rico and then he's in big trouble.

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Speaker 2: And then he's in big trouble looking at potentially a

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Speaker 2: life sentence. Right, And you know, Courtney, you brought up

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Speaker 2: Cassie Ventura, his ex that he was with for ten years.

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Speaker 3: They didn't have any children together. She took the stand.

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Speaker 2: If you missed any of it, it was harrowing and heartbreaking,

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Speaker 2: and she had to recount a lot of what they

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Speaker 2: call freak offs.

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Speaker 3: Right, we're all now getting a.

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Speaker 2: Lot getting a lot of information about what that really means.

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Speaker 3: But what it means is there were.

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Speaker 2: These choreographed sexual encounters with escorts, etc. That Cassie and

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Speaker 2: male escorts participated in, and then Diddy would sort of

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Speaker 2: sit off to the side and kind of direct a

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Speaker 2: little bit as if he was making a music video

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Speaker 2: of sorts, you know, being an executive producer and a mogul.

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Speaker 2: But the tricky thing here is that he was allegedly

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Speaker 2: recording these encounters. So if he's recording these encounters and

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Speaker 2: using that as some sort of reveverage exactly, and he

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Speaker 2: has bodyguards and assistant, it's a whole operation around.

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Speaker 3: Him that makes, you know, silence the name of the game.

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Speaker 5: We're talking about the p Diddy case, and we want

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Speaker 5: you to weigh in. Give us a call eight eight

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Speaker 5: eight to three one crime or hit us on the

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Speaker 5: talkbacks on the iHeartRadio app.

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Speaker 3: So body.

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Speaker 5: Another kind of big thing that hit the news was

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Speaker 5: that President Donald Trump is considering a pardon. He was

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Speaker 5: asked the question by a reporter and he kind of

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Speaker 5: equivocated and said maybe maybe that what do you what

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Speaker 5: do you guys think of that?

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Speaker 3: So it's crazy.

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Speaker 4: You know, we just learned of the chrislies who just

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Speaker 4: got a pardon, and we're going to be talking about

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Speaker 4: that later.

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Speaker 3: Little tease for you.

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Speaker 4: But you know, now we have the possibility that President

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Speaker 4: Donald Trump may pardon Diddy if he is convicted. So

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Speaker 4: it was during a press conference and he was asked

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Speaker 4: and Trump emphasized that no formal pardon request has been

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Speaker 4: made by the defense team, like there's there's been no

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Speaker 4: official We want to make that very clear. There's been

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Speaker 4: no official ask from the Diddy camp, you know, team

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Speaker 4: to get a pardon. But he did acknowledge. President Trump

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Speaker 4: did acknowledge that discussions about a potential pardon are taking place.

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Speaker 2: Or that he was considering that they would happen sometime soon.

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Speaker 2: He wouldn't be surprised, right, So this is not a

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Speaker 2: huge surprise in my personal opinion.

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Speaker 3: Either.

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Speaker 2: He's the president. He has the ability to do a

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Speaker 2: pardon should he choose to.

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Speaker 3: But here's the thing.

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Speaker 2: Person after person after person has shared harrowing details about

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Speaker 2: violence and revenge, have had family members threatened. Cassie Ventura's

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Speaker 2: family was threatened. Her mom and dad were threatened. What

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Speaker 2: happens if he gets off That is so dangerous for

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Speaker 2: anybody who spoke out against him. Now that we're mentioning

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Speaker 2: the Donald Trump pardon thing, do you guys remember this was.

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Speaker 3: Back in maybe twenty eighteen.

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Speaker 2: There was a gentleman named Jonathan Odie and he apparently

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Speaker 2: just like rolled into one of the Trump hotels in

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Speaker 2: South Florida and he basically wrapped himself in an American

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Speaker 2: flag and was shooting at the at the ceiling and

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Speaker 2: was ultimately shot down by police.

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Speaker 3: He was not killed, he was shot in the leg.

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Speaker 2: But he goes on to tell this crazy story about

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Speaker 2: how he was a former sex slave of Diddy and

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Speaker 2: of his then extant friend Cassie Ventura, And it sounded nuts, right.

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Speaker 2: I remember real time when this happened, and it sounded

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Speaker 2: so outlandish, like a person who had slipped and hit

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Speaker 2: their head and is having a psychotic break.

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Speaker 3: Now cut two years later, not so far fetched.

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Speaker 2: This guy was really telling the tale that we've now

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Speaker 2: heard other people say on the stand that he was

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Speaker 2: a male escort. He was being used regularly as an

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Speaker 2: air quote sex slave and it's.

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Speaker 3: Not that far fetched.

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Speaker 2: I bring that up only because that's an interesting connection.

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Speaker 2: It has nothing to do with Trump, it is I

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Speaker 2: don't know that.

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Speaker 4: I kind of wonder if that maybe is what bustled

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Speaker 4: the doors open to this investigation.

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Speaker 3: You know, this this.

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Speaker 4: Accusation that he made and then Cassie of course it's time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, funny enough, So twenty eighteen, that's when Cassie Ventura

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Speaker 2: and Diddy broke up. So this encounter with Jonathan Odie,

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Speaker 2: we should dig into this a little bit more because

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Speaker 2: again it sounded insane. Now his hearing, if I remember correctly,

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Speaker 2: had been pushed a few times, and there's an online

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Speaker 2: chatter of maybe he was an informant now or he's

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Speaker 2: in productive custody. Who knows that is, you know, will

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Speaker 2: remain to be seen. But it's interesting as this landscape

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Speaker 2: opens that there are so many players. And also remember

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Speaker 2: Diddy's always at the center of you know, the nineteen nineties,

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Speaker 2: the you know, the hip hop battle and the East

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Speaker 2: Coast West Coast with Biggie and Tupac. You know, Diddy

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Speaker 2: was right at the center of that Bad Boy Records.

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Speaker 2: And this has been a long steeped legacy of violence.

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Speaker 3: And by the way, I was.

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Speaker 2: Always a ditty fan, So I'm embarrassed to say that

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Speaker 2: now that I've seen this, or I've seen the footage

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Speaker 2: of him beating up a girl his love. It's of

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Speaker 2: Cassie Ventura getting beaten by him in an elevator. She's

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Speaker 2: trying to escape and you cannot unsee it. And granted

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Speaker 2: he's not being tried for being a bad boyfriend guilty

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Speaker 2: as charged, it really paints a picture that's so different

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Speaker 2: than his public appearance.

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Speaker 5: Well, you know, you say you're embarrassed about being a

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Speaker 5: fan in the nineties, but everyone was. He was the nineties,

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Speaker 5: the white parties who didn't want to go to a

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Speaker 5: white party. Everybody wanted to live in that opulence where

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Speaker 5: it seemed like it was chandeliers and pain and sure

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Speaker 5: famous people.

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Speaker 3: What a facade? Huh, what a facade?

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Speaker 2: And I guess both things can be true, right, Isn't

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Speaker 2: that What we now know just by working in true

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Speaker 2: crime is Listen, somebody can be a really great person

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Speaker 2: on the outside and a real monster behind closed doors.

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Speaker 2: And I think we're all finding it so confusing but

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Speaker 2: also just really scary that this underworld exists.

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Speaker 5: You're listening to True Crime tonight on iHeartRadio, where we

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Speaker 5: talk true crime all the time. We've been talking about

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Speaker 5: p Diddy. If you want to weigh in, we want

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Speaker 5: to hear from you. Call us eight at eighty three

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Speaker 5: one crime or hit us on the talkbacks on the

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Speaker 5: iHeartRadio app.

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Speaker 2: We have a lot of updates on the Karen Reid retrial.

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Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, the prosecution has finally rested and this

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Speaker 2: week is guaranteed to be explosive. And right now we're

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Speaker 2: also going to jump into the Brian Cooberger college trial.

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Speaker 2: If you haven't been following that in Idaho new developments.

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Speaker 2: Apparently he claims there may have been another assailant. So

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Speaker 2: is that possible, Courtney, what do you think? I know

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Speaker 2: this is a place of real expertise for you.

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Speaker 5: Well, Brian Coberger's defense absolutely stipulates that there is someone

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Speaker 5: else involved. So next week the prosecutors must respond to

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Speaker 5: Brian Coberger's request to name this different possible suspect, to

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Speaker 5: catch anyone up who's not super conversant, because this is

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Speaker 5: going to be a huge trial starting August eleventh. Brian

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Speaker 5: Coberger is a former PhD student in criminology and he's

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Speaker 5: accused of fatally stabbing four University of Idaho students. This

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Speaker 5: happened in November twenty two in Moscow, Idaho.

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Speaker 2: Also pretty major because this guy, the accused, Brian Coberger,

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Speaker 2: was studying criminology. He was getting his PhD in the

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Speaker 2: actual science that he was studying and is now accused of.

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Speaker 5: That's right, So you know, does that make him potentially

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Speaker 5: the perfect mastermind of a murderer or is some of

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Speaker 5: is he being sort of framed in the public eye

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Speaker 5: because he has some quote, weird searches on his Internet

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Speaker 5: and he's looking up different serial killers.

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Speaker 4: Well, you know, my friend Cheryl McColl him fame forensic

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Speaker 4: Emmy Award winning forensic analysis. She told me because I

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Speaker 4: said the same thing, like this criminology thing, this, this

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Speaker 4: has got to be something. And she said, body in

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Speaker 4: her little Southern accent that we all love Body, just

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Speaker 4: because you have a cookbook and you can read a

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Speaker 4: cookbook doesn't mean you know how to cook.

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Speaker 6: oOoOO.

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Speaker 3: That's a really good quote.

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Speaker 2: Because look, that's what's so confusing about this particular case,

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Speaker 2: and maybe that's why we're all so enthralled with it

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Speaker 2: is because first off, first and foremost for incredible young

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Speaker 2: people who have lost their lives. Their families are an agony.

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Speaker 2: They're grieving, and it was really incredibly senseless, but really

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Speaker 2: an overkill. You know, the walls in this house in

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Speaker 2: Idaho were literally bleeding. You could see the blood coming

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Speaker 2: down the walls. It was that violent. So here is

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Speaker 2: one regular PhD student. Some say he was shy or awkward,

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Speaker 2: like it's a lot of press and a lot of

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Speaker 2: conversations around him being odd.

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Speaker 3: He just goes to class one.

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Speaker 2: Day, murders four people and then rolls back to class

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Speaker 2: after that. Seems impossible to me. I want that to

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Speaker 2: be impossible. And at the same time, it's not looking great.

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Speaker 3: It's not looking great. That is very true.

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Speaker 5: However, Anne Taylor, his defense attorney, she brought up this

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Speaker 5: was weeks ago. She said that absolutely buried. Going through

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Speaker 5: troves and troves of tips collected by police. She is

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Speaker 5: saying that they found an alternate suspect and a lead.

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Speaker 5: Now the duzz has kept this sealed. In other words,

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Speaker 5: they haven't said who the person or persons are, which

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Speaker 5: is great because what kind of man hunt, you know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the tan hunts. What manhuntter do you speak of?

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Speaker 2: Is there a killer at large? Is that the insinuation

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Speaker 2: at this point that trials in August. He's been waiting

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Speaker 2: trial for a long time, by the way, a death

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Speaker 2: sentenced trial, so the stakes are very high. Is it

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Speaker 2: possible that there is a person at large as we

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Speaker 2: speak and that it's dangerous?

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Speaker 3: Like where has this person been the whole time? Listen?

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Speaker 5: Defense suggests there is. I mean, we'll find out more

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Speaker 5: of the details as it moves forward. But the defense

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Speaker 5: attorney also previously she said that she plans to argue

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Speaker 5: that Coburger was actually framed by someone, and that someone

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Speaker 5: planted his DNA at the crime scene. She also has

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Speaker 5: thrown out maybe two people committed the crime using two

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Speaker 5: different weapons.

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Speaker 4: Okay, you can't see me, but I'm totally eye rolling

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Speaker 4: right now. I'm like, I can see the biggest eye

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Speaker 4: roller ever at the moment, like, yeah, come on, come on,

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Speaker 4: but wait, getting old.

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Speaker 2: He could also be a target. You know, remember this,

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Speaker 2: you know again, my heart is really we on behalf

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Speaker 2: of all of us, you know, for the victims and

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Speaker 2: for Madison Mogen and Xana Kernodle and Kaylee Gonzalvez and

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Speaker 2: Ethan Chapin, Like, let that not get left out of

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Speaker 2: this story. But Brian Coberger, the accused, listen, he claims

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Speaker 2: his innocence. He comes from a really loving family, people

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Speaker 2: really love him. He has no reason to just go

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Speaker 2: and thrill kill. But at the same time, this evidence

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Speaker 2: is not looking so ideal, specifically where you're just you know,

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Speaker 2: speaking about body, which is this touch of DNA left

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Speaker 2: behind on a knife sheath. You know, there's been so

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Speaker 2: much conversations about knives and sheaths.

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Speaker 3: Is that damning? I guess we'll have to wait and see.

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Speaker 5: So a couple of weeks ago, there was a bombshell

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Speaker 5: dateline that was released. It was a two hour special

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Speaker 5: and it has gotten both a lot of press and

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Speaker 5: it also is impacting the trial.

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Speaker 3: Potentially potentially, and yeah, in.

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Speaker 5: A big way because in this dateline, what they released

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Speaker 5: was information that was could only be known by law

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Speaker 5: enforcement or someone on the prosecution side.

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Speaker 4: Right, Like these were selfies taken from his cell phone

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Speaker 4: in the moments after the murder. These are telephone calls,

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Speaker 4: These are things that only somebody on the inside would

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Speaker 4: have And you know, the defense is arguing that this

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Speaker 4: is like highly prejudicial and quite frankly, if any of

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Speaker 4: them are true, which I believe they are some of them,

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Speaker 4: then I kind of agree with the defense, and I

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Speaker 4: think it's possible that this could force a continuance.

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Speaker 2: And by the way, the family has been waiting for

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Speaker 2: so long for this trial to begin.

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Speaker 3: You know, Courtney and.

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Speaker 2: I made the podcast with iHeart the Idaho Massacre, so

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Speaker 2: we did a really, you know, a pretty big deep dive,

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Speaker 2: and really this focus of it was, there's no way

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Speaker 2: this one person can go and kill four people and

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Speaker 2: then go to school. And while they test this in yeah,

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Speaker 2: we can't. This is alleged, right. It seemed far fetched,

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Speaker 2: and we really did go down the rabbit hole trying

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Speaker 2: to find alternate theories or making the assertion that maybe

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Speaker 2: he struck prior or maybe there was somebody else involved,

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Speaker 2: and it really came up as a goose egg. So

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Speaker 2: we're all playing along real time as these things unfold.

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Speaker 2: But why now suddenly this is a big ticket item,

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Speaker 2: literally a quote smoking gun, if there was another person involved,

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Speaker 2: why would we only be hearing about that just weeks

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Speaker 2: before the trial?

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Speaker 5: Well, Ann Taylor and I don't know the details of

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Speaker 5: how she's going to present this but again it was

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Speaker 5: indicated that this suspect that she quote, you know, just

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Speaker 5: found was hidden, so it could be officers not meaning

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Speaker 5: poor intentions can get myopically focused on one thing.

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Speaker 3: Tunnel vision.

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Speaker 5: Tunnel vision, that's exactly right. But Judge Hippler, who honestly

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Speaker 5: seems like a really measure judge, and we're.

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Speaker 3: Very no nonsense, right, Yeah, I like him.

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Speaker 4: I do too, I quite like him. He's very no nonsense,

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Speaker 4: very to the point yep. He kind of doesn't take

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Speaker 4: any crap from either the state or the defense. He's

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Speaker 4: just very kind of this is what's.

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Speaker 3: Happened to books. Yeah, right, I do like him.

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Speaker 5: He's considering appointing a special prosecutor to investigate this dateline leak.

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Speaker 4: I think they should, absolutely they should, Yeah, because what

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Speaker 4: was put out there, I mean it really is very incendiary.

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Speaker 5: It has from Brian Coburger's cell phone. It has dozens

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Speaker 5: of screenshots of female students who went both to his college,

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Speaker 5: WSU and the University of Idaho, some of whom were

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Speaker 5: friends of three of the murdered students.

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Speaker 4: And it has the Amazon click history, and the Amazon

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Speaker 4: click history shows according to the dateline Leaks again, this

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Speaker 4: is all alleged because it hasn't been you know, in

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Speaker 4: the trial yet. It is alleging that Brian Coberger searched

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Speaker 4: for a sheath on Amazon after the murders. Why would

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Speaker 4: you look for only a sheath after the murders because

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Speaker 4: you knew you've left yours behind. I mean, this is

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Speaker 4: so prejudicial. And we again, we don't know if it's

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Speaker 4: any of it's true. These are all alleged, and you know,

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Speaker 4: some of the things we know are true, like the

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Speaker 4: selfies and you know, things like that, but the searches

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Speaker 4: and click history, we really don't know if.

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Speaker 3: It's true yet or not. We're assuming it is because

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Speaker 3: Dateline is a very reputable organization.

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Speaker 2: Of And just in case you're not familiar with this

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Speaker 2: case as closely as we are, just for the play along,

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Speaker 2: there isn't really a great known connection between the four

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Speaker 2: victims who were students who all lived together in the

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Speaker 2: same house. There were two surviving roommates, thankfully, and there

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Speaker 2: doesn't seem to be an obvious dot to connect the why.

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Speaker 2: So in this case, if in fact these Dateline leaks

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Speaker 2: are accurate, some of these photographs that were found on

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Speaker 2: the accused Brian Coberger's phone were photographs of young women

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Speaker 2: in bathing suits who are friends, allegedly on social media

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Speaker 2: with several of the female victims.

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Speaker 6: Right.

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Speaker 3: Additionally, and this seems more damning.

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Speaker 5: And to underline what you said, Boddy, we do not

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Speaker 5: know if it's true, but Dateline said that sell records

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Speaker 5: revealed that Brian Colberger, who apparently has no direct connection

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Speaker 5: with these women, was within one hundred meters of their

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Speaker 5: home twenty three times in just the short months leading

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Speaker 5: up to the murders.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and that like particular house where it's located is

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Speaker 2: sort of on a culture sack, so you have to

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Speaker 2: really drive to go out of your house with intention. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it was a house that was, you know, a party house.

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Speaker 2: They were in college, right they were. They were living

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Speaker 2: it up and there was friends in and out. It

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Speaker 2: was a very odd It was kind of an odd

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Speaker 2: house the lad I think it was.

438
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:18,960
Speaker 4: A house that was built and then they kept doing additions.

439
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:21,800
Speaker 4: It's great, So like the kind of like John Bonnet's house, Right,

440
00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:24,679
Speaker 4: that's very true. Every How, every it just didn't it

441
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:27,120
Speaker 4: didn't slow, that's right. You know, you could tell they

442
00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:29,159
Speaker 4: were auditions. So like the layout of the house is

443
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:32,040
Speaker 4: very confusing, which is another kind of strange thing, like

444
00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:33,399
Speaker 4: how did Brian Coberger know where to go?

445
00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:35,560
Speaker 3: But I dougress we'll talk about that. We have a

446
00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:37,800
Speaker 3: lot to talk about with Idaho. We're gonna talking about.

447
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:40,000
Speaker 4: The start a long time, right, There's so much to

448
00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:42,960
Speaker 4: talk about. But I think I think he's guilty, you guys,

449
00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:46,480
Speaker 4: I think he's guilty. And the dateline stuff nailed it

450
00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:49,639
Speaker 4: for me. So the prejudicial thing could be an argument

451
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:51,040
Speaker 4: that Ann Taylor can make and win.

452
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:56,040
Speaker 5: Absolutely tainted jury. I mean, this information is spread out wide.

453
00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:58,440
Speaker 5: There's a book well we'll talk about this another time,

454
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:02,119
Speaker 5: but there's a book from James Atterson coming out where

455
00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:05,840
Speaker 5: he claims that Brian Colberger was quote and apparent in

456
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:10,000
Speaker 5: cell another just incendiary. We have no knowledge it's based

457
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:12,880
Speaker 5: in fact, but things are being put out before the trial.

458
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:15,160
Speaker 3: Netbook is coming out how many days before the trial,

459
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:15,960
Speaker 3: like eleven days.

460
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:19,560
Speaker 5: It's sixteen days before the trial. And that's also something

461
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:20,800
Speaker 5: that the defense brought up.

462
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:23,399
Speaker 4: Well, we're going to be talking about key updates and

463
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:26,040
Speaker 4: the Karen re retrial. Are you new to the case.

464
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:27,639
Speaker 4: We're going to get you right at the speed. But

465
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:31,480
Speaker 4: first we actually have our very first caller. We have

466
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:34,800
Speaker 4: Indie calling right now, so let's let's go with it.

467
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,680
Speaker 7: Hi, Indeed, Hello, how you guys doing Hello?

468
00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:38,280
Speaker 2: And how are you?

469
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:40,040
Speaker 3: Thanks for Colin problem.

470
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:42,960
Speaker 7: I just want to ask about the Diddy case in

471
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:47,120
Speaker 7: kim Porter so we all know that, you know, kim

472
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:51,720
Speaker 7: Porter tragically passed away, and being that, I'll be sure

473
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:56,600
Speaker 7: who is Quincy's dad stated that he feels like he

474
00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:00,359
Speaker 7: was poisoned. Do you think that they will open or

475
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:05,960
Speaker 7: reopen Kim's Porter's case or go into Albi Shore's alleged poisoning.

476
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,120
Speaker 2: Such a great question, Such a great question. So all

477
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:12,000
Speaker 2: of this is alleged, and I'll be Shore. Who you're

478
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:17,480
Speaker 2: referring to is basically kim Porter's X, with whom she

479
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:22,240
Speaker 2: has a child that now lives with Ditty, And kim

480
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:25,720
Speaker 2: Porter was with Ditty for many, many years. They have

481
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:29,760
Speaker 2: several children together. You've seen those children in court many times,

482
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:33,320
Speaker 2: standing by their dad. But then she died, to your point,

483
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 2: very mysteriously, very healthy woman.

484
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:36,480
Speaker 3: Suddenly.

485
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,720
Speaker 2: I think the cause of death was pneumonia, and it

486
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:45,399
Speaker 2: felt sort of unexpected tragic. Diddy often publicly spoke about

487
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,520
Speaker 2: how much he missed her and loves her and may

488
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,440
Speaker 2: she rest in peace. But now many people are saying

489
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 2: that maybe her death was suspicious and that maybe she

490
00:24:55,680 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 2: had new information again allegedly, allegedly allegedly that perha, perhaps

491
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:04,119
Speaker 2: kim Porter had some details or was going to go

492
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,120
Speaker 2: to the public or to the press, and in therefore

493
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 2: she was you know, poisoned or something. These again are

494
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 2: all rumored, but it's it's something that gets spoken about

495
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 2: online on a daily basis, and many are asking for

496
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:22,240
Speaker 2: kim Porter's body and her death to be really reevaluated.

497
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:24,120
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it is.

498
00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:27,440
Speaker 5: Big online, but I will say so far as of today,

499
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 5: there has been no official action to reopen the case,

500
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 5: but who knows if, you know, chatter continues or more

501
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:37,679
Speaker 5: details emerge, because thirteen years is a long time.

502
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 3: Thirteen years is a long time.

503
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, And like some of the family members on Ditty

504
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:46,360
Speaker 2: side and Kim's children, several of them have spoken out

505
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:48,960
Speaker 2: and said this is untrue, There is no way true,

506
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 2: this isn't true. So these are really difficult things to

507
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 2: even have speculated about your parents, obviously, but again those

508
00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 2: are the same kids that are forced to sit in

509
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:02,159
Speaker 2: the courtroom and listen to the these hideous recounts of

510
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:05,680
Speaker 2: stories involving their father. I mean, that's like the optics

511
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:07,359
Speaker 2: of that alone. I'm like, why would you have your

512
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 2: eighteen year old twins in the courtroom when they're talking

513
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 2: about freak offs all day, all night. But again, you know,

514
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,320
Speaker 2: it's optics. The courtroom is a circus, right, So you

515
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 2: want you want the image of a father who has

516
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:23,200
Speaker 2: a family that loves him. It looks good for the jury,

517
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,160
Speaker 2: it does. So that's a great question, and I think

518
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 2: the truth is we don't know, and.

519
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 4: We're going to be following it all week, so we're

520
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 4: gonna we're gonna keep talking about this.

521
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 3: So thank you very much for are Colin Dy, thank

522
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 3: you for your colleagues.

523
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 5: So, as mentioned, we are now going to get into

524
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:43,160
Speaker 5: the Karen Reid retrial, the saga. So it just wrapped

525
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 5: up at sixth week, excuse me, and the prosecution finally

526
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:50,040
Speaker 5: rested their case and the defense began their own. So

527
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:52,200
Speaker 5: we're going on to finally hear what's on the other

528
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 5: side of the coin. For anyone who maybe doesn't remember,

529
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 5: Karen Reid is accused of hitting her boyfriend, a Boston

530
00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 5: police officer named John O'Keefe, with her suv and this

531
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:04,640
Speaker 5: was after a night of drinking. The allegation is that

532
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 5: she backed up into him and left him for dead

533
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 5: in the snow and peeled away. What the defense is

534
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:15,639
Speaker 5: claiming is that Karen indeed did stop her suv at

535
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 5: the bottom of the driveway where John o'keep's body was found,

536
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:21,399
Speaker 5: and she left, but that he then went up the

537
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:25,639
Speaker 5: driveway to the home of fellow police officers who he

538
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:29,880
Speaker 5: was really friendly with, and potentially that something in there happened.

539
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 5: There was some kind of fight, or a lot has

540
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 5: been thrown out. Maybe he was bitten by a dog.

541
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 5: It's kind of I feel like a little bit everything.

542
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 5: Maybe a sex party, I cannot maybe, But the allegation,

543
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,399
Speaker 5: the defense is saying, no, no, Karen Reid did not

544
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:48,520
Speaker 5: back up and hit her boyfriend and leave him for dead. Instead,

545
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 5: he died with his fellow police officers, who then brought

546
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:55,480
Speaker 5: John o'keef's body out to the bottom of the driveway

547
00:27:55,880 --> 00:28:00,439
Speaker 5: and framed Karen Reid and very specifically, she has pleaded

548
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 5: not guilty to the charges of its second degree murder.

549
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 5: It's manslaughter while operating under the influence of alcohol, as

550
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 5: well as leaving the scene of a personal injury death.

551
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:13,400
Speaker 2: Also to set the stage too, that particular night in

552
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,120
Speaker 2: Boston was terrible snow so it's a.

553
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,359
Speaker 3: Super snowy knive. It was like a blizzard. It was

554
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 3: a blizzard.

555
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,920
Speaker 2: Nobody should have been driving, let alone drug driving, which

556
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 2: is it's kind of a real tell that this was

557
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 2: a night gone wrong. You know, Karen is dating a

558
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,399
Speaker 2: guy who was a veteran of the police force and

559
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:34,000
Speaker 2: his buddy, so she was kind of the outsider of

560
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 2: their cop crew, you know, and their wives and their friends.

561
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 2: That was the group, right, so she was sort of

562
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 2: the tag along.

563
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 3: Here we are.

564
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 2: But Karen Reads already survived one trial, so now this

565
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 2: is the second.

566
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,719
Speaker 4: And it's very confusing in my opinion. What is the

567
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 4: major allegation that the defense is making. Are they saying

568
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 4: that the police did like a terrible investigation. Are they

569
00:28:57,320 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 4: saying they're corrupt?

570
00:28:58,360 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 2: Like?

571
00:28:58,480 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 3: What are they saying?

572
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 5: Well, well, I think objectively, the police did a terrible investigation.

573
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 3: And that's a hard thing for me to say, as

574
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 3: excuse me.

575
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:10,040
Speaker 2: Yes, I'm a very pro police officers exactly regard. It's

576
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 2: a very difficult job.

577
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:15,240
Speaker 5: But the investigation, and there is evidence of this, they

578
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 5: were physically taking from the scene of the crime of

579
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 5: the death of their fellow officer evidence in solo cups,

580
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 5: those red cups that you would see at a party.

581
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:28,480
Speaker 5: They were putting evidence into shopping bags like you would

582
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 5: get it anything. So the investigation in saying that, oh,

583
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 5: it was hard because it was snowing and that's why

584
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 5: things went awry. Listen, this was in Massachusetts, and.

585
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 4: This is like a major city, right, Like it's not

586
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 4: you know the sticks, right, this is like a major

587
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:43,920
Speaker 4: metropolitan area.

588
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 2: Let's be real, red solo cups. Who goes to an

589
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 2: investigation where a person has been killed and this is

590
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 2: a police officer, Karen Reid, Yeah, a police officer, no

591
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 2: less has been killed and his girlfriend is now looking

592
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 2: at a life sentence.

593
00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 3: This is a big deal.

594
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 2: Either she goes away for life or she so who

595
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 2: would actually be gathering evidence with red solo cups or

596
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 2: putting blood swabs in a paper bag?

597
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 3: That alone seems banannas to me.

598
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 5: Well, and that's what absolutely puts the alarm bells off

599
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 5: in my head. And that's why the defense is alleging

600
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 5: and ps. There has at different times during this first

601
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 5: trial and second trial, there has been a lot of

602
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 5: support to free Karen Read, A lot of support on

603
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 5: our side because she is alleging that there is a

604
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 5: cover up within the police department, and that John O'Keefe,

605
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 5: this poor victim, you know, at the center of it all,

606
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,200
Speaker 5: there is a man who lost his life. But that

607
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 5: again he went inside to the house, there was a

608
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:44,440
Speaker 5: confrontation and you know that.

609
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 3: Again the dog.

610
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 5: I don't know, I get a little if when the

611
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 5: dog's thrown out there that he was attacked or it

612
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 5: was a person like that just seems.

613
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 3: It's life and death.

614
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 2: How do you not have it should be black and white. Fact,

615
00:30:57,640 --> 00:30:59,280
Speaker 2: This is a person who was out with a group.

616
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 2: They were all they were all driving, they were all

617
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 2: boozy mcboozy, and again somebody lost their life in courtney.

618
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 2: To your point, our hearts are also going out to

619
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 2: his mother and family who have to witness this in

620
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:14,480
Speaker 2: the courtroom. But there was like the lead investigator was

621
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 2: sending tech texts internally basically I wish I could say

622
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:21,720
Speaker 2: it online because it's foul language and my mom would

623
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 2: kill me. But essentially basically saying that Karen Reid is

624
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 2: a see you next Tuesday, and also that she has

625
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 2: a flat butt and that she should kill herself.

626
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 3: So this is the lead investigator.

627
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 2: So if it's possible that there was something nefarious that

628
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 2: maybe happened in that house, you know, she was waiting

629
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:42,719
Speaker 2: in the car. He runs in to talk to her friends,

630
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 2: who hasn't been in this situation where you're like, really

631
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 2: with your knucklehead friends, it's late, I want to go home.

632
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 2: We've been out drinking all night. It's time to call

633
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 2: it a night. He goes in, apparently never comes back.

634
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 2: She dips and goes home, and.

635
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 3: Then starts calling him time after time after time, yelling at.

636
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 2: Him, screaming at him, you're pervert, screaming all time with

637
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 2: other women exactly. So that's where the whole like little

638
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:06,960
Speaker 2: sex party thing comes from.

639
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 3: Rumored, rumored, rumored.

640
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:12,000
Speaker 2: Allegedly, allegedly, allegedly. So there just seems like there's more

641
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 2: to this story other than, Hey, a woman just backed

642
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 2: over her boyfriend and now she should go to prison

643
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 2: for the rest of her life.

644
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 5: Though I will say the prosecution has put up a

645
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 5: pretty convincing case so far. I mean, with the backing up,

646
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 5: there has been John Keith's DNA tied to the tail

647
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 5: light that was busted.

648
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 3: There are details about.

649
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 5: When John O'Keefe's phone stopped moving, which is the same

650
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 5: time that Karen Reid, the accused, was allegedly backing up,

651
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:42,480
Speaker 5: and that can't.

652
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 3: Be underlined anymore.

653
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 2: I mean that is think has changed. Though there's no

654
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:49,000
Speaker 2: information on this. I have stopping here. I think that's

655
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 2: actually inaccurate. That's right, So what is the accurate information?

656
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 2: So that's what the prosecution alleges.

657
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 5: Okay, the defense again, they're day one, prosecution's day six,

658
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 5: so we should be convinced we have heard one side

659
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 5: of the story, right, But in the defense is opening

660
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 5: their expert stipulates that no, no, there was a timing.

661
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:13,080
Speaker 5: There was like a lag between John O'Keefe's cell phone

662
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 5: time and the time in the suv, and that he

663
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,479
Speaker 5: actually could have been moving after it, which would mean

664
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 5: he was not hit by the car. So that's day

665
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 5: one though, and there's a lot. I'm gonna have to

666
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 5: wait to listen to.

667
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 3: That, don't we think? Though?

668
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 2: Karen Reid is so divisive because again, according to the

669
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 2: CNN polls, everybody thinks she's guilty. I must be the

670
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 2: only wonderful I don't know if she's guilty or innocent.

671
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:36,200
Speaker 2: I'm just saying they have to prove it, and we

672
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 2: shouldn't be proving it in the media, right. But she

673
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:42,440
Speaker 2: has sort of an affect about her. I actually don't

674
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 2: notice this as much because I'm back from the East

675
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:47,479
Speaker 2: as well. It doesn't seem as though she's such a

676
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 2: tough guy. But people online just think her personality stinks.

677
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 2: They think she's cold and icy and she's smilingly behaving

678
00:33:56,480 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 2: inappropriately in the courtroom, and I personally don't really see that.

679
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 2: I just think she's putting on a tough exterior and

680
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 2: maybe she's in trouble because she's unlikable.

681
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 4: Well, maybe we'll have to see. Well, we want to

682
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 4: hear what you have to say about all snein stories.

683
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:12,799
Speaker 4: Give us a call at one eight thirty one Crime

684
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:15,239
Speaker 4: to talk about Diddy, Prian Coberger or Karen Reid.

685
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,799
Speaker 2: We just kind of wanted to introduce ourselves and each other.

686
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:29,319
Speaker 2: As I've mentioned now, I'm Stephanie Leidecker and I head

687
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:34,280
Speaker 2: up a production company that makes true crime documentaries and podcasts.

688
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:37,360
Speaker 2: And Courtney and I go way back. We've been working

689
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:39,879
Speaker 2: together for well over ten years or so by now.

690
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:43,319
Speaker 2: We used to work in you know, reality shows. We

691
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,799
Speaker 2: call it unscripted now it sounds so fancy, and we

692
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:50,320
Speaker 2: sort of parlayed from that into true crime together.

693
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:53,960
Speaker 3: What was your what's your big takeaway? Oh man, my

694
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:54,840
Speaker 3: big takeaway?

695
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 5: Well, first of all, my big takeaway is what a

696
00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 5: great pleasure it has been working with for the past

697
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 5: ten years. Yeah, and honestly, Stephanie is just as a

698
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 5: human to brag on you for a hot second. She

699
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:12,239
Speaker 5: helms an amazing ship at Katie's Studios. She produced multiple

700
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:15,279
Speaker 5: documentaries and justice with Nancy Grace Murdered and Missing in

701
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 5: Montana one of my favorites. Yeah, worth, I mean highly worth,

702
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:22,360
Speaker 5: the watch and the Queen Nancy Grace.

703
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:24,239
Speaker 4: Come on now, come on, I can't get any more

704
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:25,440
Speaker 4: true crime royalty.

705
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,440
Speaker 5: Yes, and Stephanie, you know it's been It's been quite

706
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:31,279
Speaker 5: a ride. And then also tons of podcasts that we've

707
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:33,799
Speaker 5: done for iHeart, including the piked In Massacre and the

708
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 5: Idaho Massacreeah.

709
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 2: Courtney's the voice of all of these. So if you

710
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 2: recognize that sultry voice, it is Courtney Armstrong herself, the

711
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:46,240
Speaker 2: voice of the piked In Massacre and the Idaho Massacre

712
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:49,360
Speaker 2: and many more so yeah, the show goes on.

713
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 3: Kid, Stephanie's so too much.

714
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:55,719
Speaker 5: But all of this crime brought us Stephanie and I

715
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:58,759
Speaker 5: to Crime Colm on a panel, and it is at

716
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 5: that point where are stars aligned with Body move In,

717
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:06,279
Speaker 5: who we met in the green room because she was

718
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:09,360
Speaker 5: also at crime Con right on a panel.

719
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:11,040
Speaker 3: You guys know what crime con is.

720
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:15,920
Speaker 2: It's like that huge event where enthusiasts for crime shows

721
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 2: and things come to listen to detectives and you know,

722
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:22,759
Speaker 2: Dan Abrams and Nancy Grace and Body move In, who

723
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:24,239
Speaker 2: was making a big appearance there.

724
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:26,600
Speaker 4: Right, That was a that was a fun day. I

725
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 4: was giving a talk about how animal abuse leads to

726
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:32,319
Speaker 4: bigger crimes, and I was also of course talking about

727
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 4: don't f with cats, and you guys ran up to

728
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 4: me and like it felt very natural, and you know,

729
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:40,920
Speaker 4: here we are, like two years later, we've worked on

730
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 4: a couple things together and now we're doing this and

731
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 4: I couldn't be happier to be here.

732
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, I was gonna say it was kind of a scene.

733
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:53,840
Speaker 5: Stephanie and I were a little fan girling. Definitely not

734
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:55,840
Speaker 5: the smoothest moment, but instant.

735
00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 3: I never made an ego boost.

736
00:36:57,520 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 4: I'll go to crime con because everybody comes up to

737
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:01,200
Speaker 4: the everybody fangirls and it makes me.

738
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:03,719
Speaker 3: Feel really Yeah, we were alone, we were like, there

739
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:04,440
Speaker 3: she is.

740
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:06,839
Speaker 2: It's body moving because if you haven't seen her work

741
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:09,040
Speaker 2: on the documentary don f with Kats, which you can

742
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 2: see on Netflix, it's astounding and it really personally changed

743
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 2: my DNA.

744
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:14,600
Speaker 3: I watched it.

745
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:17,759
Speaker 2: I've said this many times during COVID and I really

746
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:20,239
Speaker 2: think it's shaped a lot of the things and decisions

747
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 2: we made as a company thereafter. So in my opinion,

748
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:26,560
Speaker 2: you hold the keys to greatness. So when Courtney and

749
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 2: I were in the same green room with you, you know,

750
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 2: we're eating the donuts and having their free coffee, and

751
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:34,719
Speaker 2: they were like, there's body and we literally tackled her

752
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 2: and it was love at first sight and it's been

753
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 2: it's been a real joy ride ever since. So yeah, yeah,

754
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 2: the best thing. I'm happy to be here.

755
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 3: I'm so excited. I just love talking true crime.

756
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:47,839
Speaker 4: I love talking with girls, and I feel like we're

757
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:49,840
Speaker 4: sitting around the kitchen table with a cup of coffee

758
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 4: and that's what you know, and that's what I think

759
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 4: the vibe of the show is right exactly.

760
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:56,399
Speaker 3: Chatting with your girlfriends, you know.

761
00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:58,799
Speaker 2: And that's why you guys, you know, have to call us,

762
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:00,880
Speaker 2: you know, call us at eight eight eight three to

763
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 2: one crime.

764
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:03,319
Speaker 8: Can you hear me?

765
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 3: Yes?

766
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:09,320
Speaker 2: Welcome, Welcome, Heather, you have me, Stephanie, you, Courtney and Body.

767
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:10,799
Speaker 8: Hi ladies.

768
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 2: Hello.

769
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 8: I was calling to ask there's a lot of discussion

770
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:19,879
Speaker 8: online on whether Karen is guilty or innocent, but I

771
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:22,839
Speaker 8: was more curious about your opinions on whether or not

772
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 8: the prosecution has actually proven the keyse because they have

773
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:30,719
Speaker 8: skipped over a lot of key witnesses in the in

774
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:34,800
Speaker 8: the case this time, Albert, Yes.

775
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:38,319
Speaker 3: Great question. Who wants that question?

776
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 4: You know, it's such a hard one to answer in Heather,

777
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:43,520
Speaker 4: You're right, this is like a super divisive case online,

778
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 4: and I feel like, no matter which what you say

779
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:49,359
Speaker 4: about it, you're going to get lambassad from the other side.

780
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:53,920
Speaker 4: These these sides hate each other, Okay, the free Karen

781
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:56,400
Speaker 4: repeople hate the guilty Karen repeople.

782
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:58,480
Speaker 3: So I feel like either way we answered this, we're

783
00:38:58,480 --> 00:38:59,240
Speaker 3: going to get in trouble.

784
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:02,400
Speaker 4: However, I think it's too early to say whether the

785
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:05,880
Speaker 4: prosecution has proved their case. I think by now we

786
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:08,719
Speaker 4: should have an answer to that. But because this case

787
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:14,479
Speaker 4: is so god, it's so divisive, it's hard to say

788
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:17,840
Speaker 4: I would say they have not. Here's my thing. I

789
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 4: think Karen Reid is guilty, but I think guilt and

790
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:26,160
Speaker 4: provable guilt are two different things, right, Like, it's just

791
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:30,320
Speaker 4: not the same thing. And I don't because the defense

792
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:33,239
Speaker 4: basically is going to show and we're going to hear

793
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:36,920
Speaker 4: all about it coming up. How terrible this investigation was

794
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 4: and how terrible police you know, crime scene I was

795
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:45,399
Speaker 4: processed from start to finish was just terrible. I think

796
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 4: that there's going to be at least one juror that's

797
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:51,200
Speaker 4: going to have reasonable doubt on whether or not she's

798
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:53,160
Speaker 4: guilty or not. And I just don't think the state

799
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:53,799
Speaker 4: proved it.

800
00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:56,880
Speaker 3: I agree, Heather. What do you think? Heather? Where are

801
00:39:56,920 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 3: you calling us from? We're so excited to know.

802
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:02,840
Speaker 8: Oh I'm calling from Florida.

803
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 3: Nice. So what do you think, Heather? What's your what's your.

804
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:11,520
Speaker 8: I I don't know where I stand on whether some

805
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:14,160
Speaker 8: days I think she's guilty, some days I think she's innocent.

806
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:19,239
Speaker 8: But either way, I don't think that there's any way

807
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:22,279
Speaker 8: that any jury could find her guilty because of the

808
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 8: investigation personally, I think they grossly mishandled it from don't

809
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 8: you think Heether that.

810
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:32,279
Speaker 4: Don't you think Heather that it's a gross injustice to

811
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:36,320
Speaker 4: John O'Keeffe, like their fellow police officer, that this was handled.

812
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 3: Absolutely, I hopefull. We need to keep that up.

813
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:41,799
Speaker 4: Front, like there's a victim here and you know, and

814
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:44,360
Speaker 4: often he gets lost in the sauce.

815
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:45,960
Speaker 7: He does.

816
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:49,320
Speaker 8: And I feel like, as a brother in blue, you

817
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:52,279
Speaker 8: would have expected them to cross all their tees and

818
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:55,600
Speaker 8: dot every eye and for them to just be no,

819
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 8: like so nonchalant about it is absolutely wild to me.

820
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:05,279
Speaker 8: And he deserved better, They owed him better, And yes,

821
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:09,000
Speaker 8: I just the whole thing is super sad because whether

822
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:11,640
Speaker 8: she's found guilty or innocent, there's never going to be

823
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:15,759
Speaker 8: justice for him in my opinions, because of the way

824
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:19,040
Speaker 8: that the police conducted themselves in the investigation, and they

825
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:20,320
Speaker 8: can't go back and get a redo.

826
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:23,920
Speaker 4: Well, Hart, thank you so much for calling. Welcome to

827
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 4: the True Crime Tonight. Family, Thank you so much for calling.

828
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:28,960
Speaker 4: We again, if you want to give us a call,

829
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:31,240
Speaker 4: call us at one eight eight eight thirty one Crime.

830
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:35,279
Speaker 4: But we're going to jump right into another case and

831
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 4: we're going to be talking about a kidnapping in New

832
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:39,239
Speaker 4: York City, and I'm telling the story. And this is

833
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 4: I swear I'm going to get all the crazy stories. Okay,

834
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:42,759
Speaker 4: So if you want to know what's happening in the

835
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:46,200
Speaker 4: crazy town, just follow a body moving. Okay, this is

836
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:50,279
Speaker 4: this is pretty crazy. There's a guy in New York

837
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:55,799
Speaker 4: that basically is running down the street in like pajamas

838
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:59,440
Speaker 4: and a polo shirt and he's barefoot, he's bloody. This

839
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:02,239
Speaker 4: is all captured on video. And he runs up to

840
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 4: a New York City police officer. This isn't like beautiful, soho.

841
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:10,800
Speaker 4: You know, Manhattan in New York City very posh, very

842
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 4: beautiful in the city.

843
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, very say, it's literally sucks in the city. Okay.

844
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:16,680
Speaker 4: And he's running down the street and he runs up

845
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:19,840
Speaker 4: to a police officer and you know, he's bruised and bloodied.

846
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:22,839
Speaker 4: And this is the surveillance video that's been released, and

847
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:26,719
Speaker 4: what we find out behind it, behind the scenes, is

848
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:34,239
Speaker 4: that he's been kidnapped by the King of Crypto in Kentucky.

849
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:36,240
Speaker 3: Quite a mouthful.

850
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 5: It's quite him name himself or is that like a

851
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:41,080
Speaker 5: pals call him that?

852
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:41,919
Speaker 3: Right?

853
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 4: No, that's like his self proclaimed name. Well hit the

854
00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 4: victim's name he well, the victim is from Italy, Okay,

855
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:53,279
Speaker 4: name is Michael Cadaran, and he's also a crypto king

856
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:57,040
Speaker 4: basically of Italy. He's got millions of dollars in cryptocurrency.

857
00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:01,400
Speaker 4: And they the people that napped him or trying to

858
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 4: get basically his seed, his password, his his bitcoin password

859
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:09,720
Speaker 4: to steal from him. And here's what they did, you guys.

860
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:13,319
Speaker 4: I mean, it's absolutely insane. They took his passport and

861
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:16,960
Speaker 4: all of his electronics devices. They beat him with the pistol,

862
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:20,799
Speaker 4: held a gun to his head, used a chainsaw on

863
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:24,440
Speaker 4: his leg. They urinated on him, they peed on him,

864
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:27,160
Speaker 4: you guys. They tied him up, They dangle him off

865
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:30,759
Speaker 4: the building. It's very shug Night, right, it's very you know,

866
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:32,960
Speaker 4: dangling from the building, like we learned he did to

867
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:36,040
Speaker 4: like Vanilla Ice, right, Like, it's very super villain what

868
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:40,000
Speaker 4: they did to this man. And eventually he was like, okay,

869
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:42,520
Speaker 4: I'm going to give you my passwords, but it's on

870
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:45,839
Speaker 4: my computer at my hotel room. So they're like going

871
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 4: to basically get his computer, and that's when he is

872
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:50,800
Speaker 4: able to escape. But he was held for three weeks.

873
00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 4: You guys, three weeks he was held.

874
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:56,799
Speaker 2: He was held hostage, and exactly, it's right out of

875
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:59,160
Speaker 2: the scariest movie. And by the way, these were like young,

876
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:03,680
Speaker 2: successful men with big lives ahead. So how is it

877
00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:07,760
Speaker 2: possible that this is your version of something going correctly?

878
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 2: You know, they knew this guy, so they lured this

879
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:14,360
Speaker 2: man from Italy under the pretense that they were going to,

880
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:17,759
Speaker 2: you know, get some negotiations going. They had some sort

881
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:22,360
Speaker 2: of a partnership that was longstanding. Can you imagine you

882
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:25,239
Speaker 2: come to New York City and you go meet your

883
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:29,240
Speaker 2: buds and suddenly you're now being locked up and frankly

884
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:33,840
Speaker 2: nature for all intensive purposes. They were being waterboarded. It's nuts.

885
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:39,040
Speaker 5: And it seems like this was not their first negative interaction.

886
00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:42,400
Speaker 5: This one escalated really high, but this was not the

887
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:46,000
Speaker 5: first time they had been in bad contact. So there's

888
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:49,839
Speaker 5: also in addition to the two men who have been

889
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 5: arrested for this kidnapping, there is also a third. It's

890
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:58,560
Speaker 5: a young woman. She's twenty four years old, and I

891
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:03,880
Speaker 5: believe she was an assist, didn't right, Beatrice, Beatrice, That's right.

892
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:08,240
Speaker 4: Beatrice Fulci. She was the owner of the Soho apartment

893
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:12,200
Speaker 4: John Waltz. She was his assistant to him. But here's

894
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:18,439
Speaker 4: the thing. She's been released with prosecution deferred, which is interesting. Well,

895
00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:20,560
Speaker 4: I kind of wonder if it means that she's like

896
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 4: basically going to be cooperating and getting some kind of

897
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:27,359
Speaker 4: immunity deal where she'll be able to testify against the

898
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:29,640
Speaker 4: two that are accused. Now, the two that are accused,

899
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:34,759
Speaker 4: one is William Duplessi. Now he here's this kind of

900
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:37,440
Speaker 4: like grinds on my gears. You guys, he was able

901
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:43,279
Speaker 4: to negotiate a surrenderer, okay, and he after he negotiated

902
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:45,480
Speaker 4: the surrender, he went and partied in the Hamptons for

903
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:47,760
Speaker 4: a couple of days and then just kind of waltzed

904
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:50,120
Speaker 4: in and turned himself in, Like how do you get

905
00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 4: to do that for torturing somebody?

906
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:52,319
Speaker 6: For it's so.

907
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:56,160
Speaker 5: Gross just to party in the Hamptons and to make

908
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:59,759
Speaker 5: that arrangement and coming like it's disgusting.

909
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:02,520
Speaker 4: It's not that, but you just tortured a guy for

910
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:04,840
Speaker 4: three weeks and now you're just like, oh, gonna go party,

911
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:08,480
Speaker 4: Like how depraved you have to be? And listen, these

912
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:12,240
Speaker 4: guys are already mega rich, right, how much more money

913
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:15,200
Speaker 4: do they need that they're going to torture this guy

914
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:17,600
Speaker 4: for there has to be more to this story. There

915
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:19,880
Speaker 4: has to be more to this. In my humble opinion,

916
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:22,719
Speaker 4: it seems impossible that it's just over money when they're

917
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 4: obviously so wealthy to begin with.

918
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:28,920
Speaker 3: Well, Crypto King of Kentucky is allegedly worth almost one

919
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:31,879
Speaker 3: hundred million dollars? Is how much more does he need?

920
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 3: How give me a break?

921
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:37,919
Speaker 5: But this is so deviant. It goes to some different psychology.

922
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:40,720
Speaker 5: It's like, I mean, it's like some American psycho stuff,

923
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:41,400
Speaker 5: a little.

924
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:42,600
Speaker 3: Bit, a little bit well, you know.

925
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:46,560
Speaker 4: Sources with knowledge of the situation told reporters that two

926
00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:49,359
Speaker 4: of the two men that have been accused have been

927
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:51,880
Speaker 4: violent with the victim in the past, but not to

928
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:52,480
Speaker 4: this level.

929
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:56,239
Speaker 3: Not to this level. There was a chainsaw involved. They

930
00:46:56,280 --> 00:47:00,600
Speaker 3: took a chainsaw to his leg. Oh isn't it yeah? Crazy?

931
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:02,440
Speaker 3: It's like, yes, but.

932
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:04,359
Speaker 4: They didn't like chop off his leg or anything. I mean,

933
00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:06,000
Speaker 4: you can see him walking down the street. His leg

934
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:08,279
Speaker 4: is perfectly intact. I want to make that clear. But

935
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:11,040
Speaker 4: there there's definitely some kind of deviant behavior. They peed

936
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:14,080
Speaker 4: on him, you guys, they peed on this guy. They

937
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 4: electrocuted him.

938
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:19,240
Speaker 5: There has also there has been a spate of crypto

939
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:23,520
Speaker 5: kidnappings going on in Paris, for example, there has been

940
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:27,480
Speaker 5: multiple kidnappings out on the street and broad daylight to

941
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:31,239
Speaker 5: get money from people who hold crypto and body, am

942
00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:33,520
Speaker 5: I correct that right where you are in Vegas?

943
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:36,000
Speaker 3: Yeah? What happened just happened.

944
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:38,839
Speaker 4: So there was a big convention here in Vegas and

945
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:40,960
Speaker 4: one of the guys was giving like a keynote speech

946
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:43,719
Speaker 4: on it and he's finished, and he's going home. And

947
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:48,359
Speaker 4: as he's going home, these three kids, literal kids, they're

948
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:51,440
Speaker 4: sixteen years old from Florida. They drove to Vegas to

949
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:55,359
Speaker 4: kidnap this guy. They successfully kidnapped him and drove him

950
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:59,440
Speaker 4: to the Arizona desert and they successfully stole four million

951
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:00,040
Speaker 4: dollars from.

952
00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:02,879
Speaker 3: What Yeah, did they get away with it?

953
00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:06,440
Speaker 4: They well know they were caught because you know, he

954
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:09,919
Speaker 4: was able to he survived. He walked five miles through

955
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:12,359
Speaker 4: the desert to get to a phone to call for help.

956
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:15,360
Speaker 3: This poor guy.

957
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:17,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, so this is going to be like, I think,

958
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:22,200
Speaker 4: a new wave of of robbery because you know, crypto

959
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:25,960
Speaker 4: is you know, I guess it's kind of you know, untraceable,

960
00:48:26,239 --> 00:48:29,759
Speaker 4: because you're sending him to anonymous blockchain wallet addresses, which

961
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:32,240
Speaker 4: you really can't really trace because there's no name attached

962
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:33,840
Speaker 4: to it. So this is going to be the wave

963
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 4: of the future, and I think we're going to be

964
00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:36,240
Speaker 4: hearing about this a lot more.

965
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:39,160
Speaker 5: You're listening to True Crime tonight on iHeartRadio, where we

966
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:42,480
Speaker 5: talk true crime all the time. I'm Courtney Armstrong here

967
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:45,879
Speaker 5: with Stephanie Leidecker and body move in. If you want

968
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:48,080
Speaker 5: to weigh in, we want to hear from you. Call

969
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:50,880
Speaker 5: us eighty eight three one Crime or hit us on

970
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:53,640
Speaker 5: the talkbacks on the iHeartRadio app.

971
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:04,240
Speaker 2: Have you guys heard of the Gone Girl? The real

972
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:08,360
Speaker 2: life Gone Girl, Sherry Peppini. She's the girl who said

973
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:12,719
Speaker 2: that she was kidnapped and abducted by an ex who

974
00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:17,879
Speaker 2: branded her and her husband and children were not only

975
00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:19,960
Speaker 2: looking for her, the whole country, the whole world was

976
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:23,799
Speaker 2: looking for her. And it turns out that she was

977
00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:27,839
Speaker 2: being dishonest and is recently been released from prison and

978
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:29,439
Speaker 2: is speaking out for the first time.

979
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:33,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean you call her gone girl, I call

980
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:35,920
Speaker 5: her liar, liar, pants on fire And she for a

981
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:38,279
Speaker 5: while was America's what was it?

982
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:41,880
Speaker 3: Super Mom? Oh gosh, she's another woman of many names.

983
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:44,960
Speaker 5: But last week Shary Pepinie is back big in the

984
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:50,360
Speaker 5: news because Investigation Discovery they just put out Cherry Peppini

985
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:53,960
Speaker 5: Caught in a Lie. Caught in the Lie. It's a

986
00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:59,080
Speaker 5: four part documentary series and it features Sherry Peppini and

987
00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:03,000
Speaker 5: it seemed it's like she is changing her story yet again.

988
00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:06,120
Speaker 5: This will be the third iteration. So Steph, like you said,

989
00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:10,920
Speaker 5: it was back in twenty sixteen when she went for

990
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:15,120
Speaker 5: a run in where she lives in Redding, California, and

991
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:17,440
Speaker 5: then simply vanished.

992
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:18,080
Speaker 3: Her husband.

993
00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:21,440
Speaker 5: At the time he came home, her car was in

994
00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:24,399
Speaker 5: the driveway where it shouldn't have been, and their two

995
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:29,640
Speaker 5: young children were in daycare. Her husband immediately calls the police,

996
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:33,920
Speaker 5: and this search goes on twenty two really long days.

997
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:35,680
Speaker 5: And do you guys remember how big.

998
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:39,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was concerned looking for Sherry.

999
00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:41,839
Speaker 2: All eyes were out and I think she came back

1000
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:43,640
Speaker 2: on Thanksgiving or something.

1001
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:44,840
Speaker 3: Right it was, it was right around there. There was

1002
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:48,879
Speaker 3: a hero return, a hero return. Absolutely, she came home.

1003
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:50,239
Speaker 3: It was Thanksgiving day.

1004
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:56,200
Speaker 5: She's weighing eighty seven pounds and she had lost all

1005
00:50:56,239 --> 00:50:58,960
Speaker 5: of this weight in that twenty two days, her hair

1006
00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:02,720
Speaker 5: has been cut off off, the branding, like you said,

1007
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:07,719
Speaker 5: and the beating and the bruises, and so at the time, oh,

1008
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:11,640
Speaker 5: thank god, America's mom supermom is back, and.

1009
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:15,040
Speaker 4: Everybody's fawning over her, right like they're taking care of her,

1010
00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:17,560
Speaker 4: like look at the bruises, like, oh my god, it's

1011
00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:20,480
Speaker 4: like a you know, she's getting all this sympathy in her,

1012
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:22,280
Speaker 4: you know, like a husband's.

1013
00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:26,080
Speaker 3: Like excited that she's home. Like just that's right. And

1014
00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:27,759
Speaker 3: so we're just trying to set the story right, like

1015
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:30,839
Speaker 3: remember this time, and you know, she was just getting

1016
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:33,439
Speaker 3: all this attention that everybody was fawning all over her,

1017
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:34,640
Speaker 3: that's right.

1018
00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:38,279
Speaker 5: And not only was she getting attention, she got three

1019
00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:43,319
Speaker 5: hundred thousand dollars or actually more than because for this

1020
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:48,360
Speaker 5: six years while Sherry Peppini the hoax was not proven otherwise,

1021
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:50,960
Speaker 5: so it was just horay, she's home, supermom.

1022
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:51,680
Speaker 3: Thank god.

1023
00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:58,320
Speaker 5: She collected all this money from victim compensations funds, donations

1024
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:01,040
Speaker 5: from public people were donating to her out of their

1025
00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:06,000
Speaker 5: own pocket, as well as disability payments. But guess what

1026
00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:09,440
Speaker 5: that cut up to her because when the investigators started

1027
00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:13,440
Speaker 5: unfolding and saying something is not right. One of her

1028
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:17,640
Speaker 5: main charges was mail fraud, and that was because that

1029
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:21,200
Speaker 5: had to do with while she was lying, she used

1030
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:24,640
Speaker 5: the mail to obtain these funds from, for example, the

1031
00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:26,920
Speaker 5: California Victim Compensation Board.

1032
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:31,720
Speaker 3: So taking from real victims. Yeah, three hundred thousand dollars.

1033
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:34,760
Speaker 3: That disgusted money, that's right. Wow.

1034
00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:37,680
Speaker 5: And then so she ended up she was sent to

1035
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:42,399
Speaker 5: she pled guilty, so there was no trial. She went

1036
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:46,919
Speaker 5: to federal prison for eighteen months. And then now again

1037
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:48,920
Speaker 5: she's kind of she's back on the scene. And what

1038
00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:52,400
Speaker 5: she had said was it was two Hispanic women in

1039
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:58,279
Speaker 5: masks who kidnapped her and did all of the beating. Ultimately,

1040
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:02,359
Speaker 5: it was revealed that no, she was hiding out at

1041
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:06,360
Speaker 5: her boyfriend's house. Remember she's married, so it's a little

1042
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:08,000
Speaker 5: inconvenient to have a husband.

1043
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:08,600
Speaker 3: And a boyfriend.

1044
00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:11,560
Speaker 5: Things got dicey with the husband, and so she went

1045
00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:15,440
Speaker 5: to chill out with this boyfriend and that was the story,

1046
00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:18,279
Speaker 5: and that he had no he was aware she was

1047
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:21,200
Speaker 5: sort of harming herself, but that she was the one

1048
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:22,640
Speaker 5: who precipitated this whole event.

1049
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:25,120
Speaker 4: He didn't notice that she was like cutting her hair

1050
00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:27,840
Speaker 4: off and got down to eighty seven pounds and was

1051
00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:29,120
Speaker 4: branding herself like.

1052
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:29,880
Speaker 3: What the heck?

1053
00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:33,799
Speaker 2: Well, according to her, he was branding her. So yes,

1054
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:37,880
Speaker 2: a little bit of more backstory. Sherry Peppini had a husband, Keith,

1055
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:42,520
Speaker 2: and Keith did this documentary. It's very good and it's

1056
00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:44,960
Speaker 2: basically his side of the story, which was everything you

1057
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:48,040
Speaker 2: could imagine, where's my wife? My kids miss their mom.

1058
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:51,960
Speaker 2: This is devastating, and she comes from a really loving family,

1059
00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:56,480
Speaker 2: so everybody was looking for her, myself included. So now

1060
00:53:56,520 --> 00:53:58,520
Speaker 2: that she's out of prison, you know, look and she

1061
00:53:58,600 --> 00:54:01,440
Speaker 2: tells a different tale. Her take on it is that

1062
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:05,080
Speaker 2: she married Keith. They were very young. It was her

1063
00:54:05,239 --> 00:54:08,880
Speaker 2: first kiss in seventh grade. They go way back. He

1064
00:54:10,040 --> 00:54:13,239
Speaker 2: kind of held the purse strings in their relationship. She

1065
00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:17,000
Speaker 2: had a job, lost that job, had kids, became a

1066
00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:20,200
Speaker 2: stay at home mom, and little by Little tells a

1067
00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:23,920
Speaker 2: story of how she was just unhappy and felt as

1068
00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:27,480
Speaker 2: though she didn't really have any outside sources and she

1069
00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:30,560
Speaker 2: couldn't make her own money, and that her husband was

1070
00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:34,919
Speaker 2: a bit controlling, and she started kind of texting with

1071
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:36,320
Speaker 2: this ex boyfriend of hers.

1072
00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:38,240
Speaker 3: By the way, they seemed very immature.

1073
00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:41,000
Speaker 2: She even said that too it seemed like they married

1074
00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:45,280
Speaker 2: young and were a little you know, immature generally speaking.

1075
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:48,800
Speaker 2: And she started texting with an ex and I guess

1076
00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:51,359
Speaker 2: like there was a funeral and she was reaching out

1077
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:55,600
Speaker 2: because of the funeral, and so it escalates, and she

1078
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:59,080
Speaker 2: also realized that she couldn't exactly leave her husband for

1079
00:54:59,239 --> 00:55:03,440
Speaker 2: this ex boyfriend because she had no money. He actually

1080
00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:07,319
Speaker 2: made her sign a post up, and in that post up,

1081
00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:10,600
Speaker 2: a post up is sort of like a prenup, but

1082
00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:11,760
Speaker 2: after marriage.

1083
00:55:12,280 --> 00:55:13,520
Speaker 3: He made her sign.

1084
00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:17,560
Speaker 2: That because if she was unfaithful or looked at another guy,

1085
00:55:18,239 --> 00:55:20,799
Speaker 2: she would be left with nothing. And that was a

1086
00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:24,799
Speaker 2: way for in her opinion, allegedly, that was a way

1087
00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:28,919
Speaker 2: for her husband to control, control the narrative and control her.

1088
00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:33,399
Speaker 2: And in a very desperate, bad scenario right now, add

1089
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:37,359
Speaker 2: two kids and you know whatever, she has this big

1090
00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:40,480
Speaker 2: kakamimi idea that she's going to go visit her her

1091
00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:44,240
Speaker 2: lovely ex. And and so the branding begins.

1092
00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:48,239
Speaker 3: Wow. But speaking of documentary, have you guys seen it yet?

1093
00:55:48,719 --> 00:55:48,879
Speaker 6: Oh?

1094
00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:50,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh you want so you did?

1095
00:55:50,600 --> 00:55:50,759
Speaker 7: Yes?

1096
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:52,880
Speaker 4: So, my friend Michelle saw it and she said she

1097
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:54,319
Speaker 4: wanted to punch her through the TV.

1098
00:55:55,760 --> 00:55:57,880
Speaker 3: How did you feel? Oh, my God, I felt a

1099
00:55:57,880 --> 00:56:01,040
Speaker 3: little bit more compassion for her. You I did.

1100
00:56:01,200 --> 00:56:03,600
Speaker 2: Listen, I'm a bit of a sucker too. I am

1101
00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:06,000
Speaker 2: three of us, let's be honest, I'm the gullible one.

1102
00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:11,239
Speaker 2: I was very confused by her. And again those branding

1103
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:14,719
Speaker 2: and the bruises, it was all very intense. She kind

1104
00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:17,799
Speaker 2: of just feels like somebody who got very in over

1105
00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:22,239
Speaker 2: their head and definitely made a really bad judgment call.

1106
00:56:22,520 --> 00:56:25,279
Speaker 2: And I mean, this is as I'm saying this, I

1107
00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:26,479
Speaker 2: want to throw up in my own mouth.

1108
00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:31,279
Speaker 4: So thanks, regardless, can I take that record?

1109
00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:31,759
Speaker 3: Agree with you?

1110
00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:35,240
Speaker 4: But she took three hundred thousand dollars from victims basically,

1111
00:56:35,560 --> 00:56:36,560
Speaker 4: and from me also.

1112
00:56:36,840 --> 00:56:40,080
Speaker 2: The bigger I was going to say, the investigation, all

1113
00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:43,000
Speaker 2: those police resources that could have been used to actually

1114
00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:45,799
Speaker 2: solve crimes that were really happening at that time, How

1115
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:49,000
Speaker 2: very very dangerous and how very targeted to say it

1116
00:56:49,080 --> 00:56:50,440
Speaker 2: was two Hispanic women.

1117
00:56:51,400 --> 00:56:55,640
Speaker 3: That's like, you know, a real problem, very very serious.

1118
00:56:55,719 --> 00:56:58,640
Speaker 4: And the other real problem too, is now other victims

1119
00:56:59,040 --> 00:57:01,880
Speaker 4: who actually might have issues are going to be not

1120
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:03,560
Speaker 4: It's kind of like the boy who cried Wolf's like,

1121
00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:06,680
Speaker 4: is she is she really missing or is she just shock?

1122
00:57:06,719 --> 00:57:06,799
Speaker 6: It?

1123
00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:08,960
Speaker 3: Up with her boyfriend, Like, the disservice you're doing to

1124
00:57:09,040 --> 00:57:14,359
Speaker 3: future victims is unforgivable in my book, absolutely unforgivable. And

1125
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:15,759
Speaker 3: by the way that.

1126
00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:20,040
Speaker 5: They to involve literally the nation to get in on

1127
00:57:20,080 --> 00:57:22,960
Speaker 5: what's doing in your marriage, which is I mean, that's

1128
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:26,959
Speaker 5: how it started and that's what it escalated to. It's

1129
00:57:27,080 --> 00:57:32,080
Speaker 5: really hard to be sympathetic to her. So I have

1130
00:57:32,200 --> 00:57:35,040
Speaker 5: not seen the documentary yet. I will be in the

1131
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:39,000
Speaker 5: coming days, but it's I don't know. Maybe I'll be Swede,

1132
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:42,320
Speaker 5: and like I said, maybe they'll be compassion but they're still.

1133
00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:44,120
Speaker 3: Going into it very prejudiced.

1134
00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:47,000
Speaker 2: I'm not really actually just say I'm not pro Peppini

1135
00:57:47,160 --> 00:57:48,200
Speaker 2: in either scenario.

1136
00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:49,919
Speaker 3: I have no real skin in the game.

1137
00:57:50,200 --> 00:57:52,880
Speaker 2: I just felt like they both have these opposing documentaries

1138
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:56,680
Speaker 2: which tell very different tales, and look, at the end

1139
00:57:56,720 --> 00:57:59,080
Speaker 2: of the day, who cares. She has been forced to

1140
00:57:59,080 --> 00:58:01,960
Speaker 2: pay restitution. I think the police said that she she

1141
00:58:02,080 --> 00:58:05,640
Speaker 2: roughly spent about one hundred and fifty thousand dollars in

1142
00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:09,640
Speaker 2: law enforcement. You know, just that's a pretty big deployment

1143
00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:13,040
Speaker 2: of funding. So of course she has to pay that back,

1144
00:58:13,120 --> 00:58:15,640
Speaker 2: and you know, she has trouble seeing her kids and

1145
00:58:15,920 --> 00:58:19,240
Speaker 2: and allegedly she has a new boyfriend that's very wealthy,

1146
00:58:19,480 --> 00:58:21,520
Speaker 2: and know, it just seems like a mess.

1147
00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:25,120
Speaker 4: So what is she saying She's saying that in this documentary.

1148
00:58:25,160 --> 00:58:27,240
Speaker 4: Is she saying that, you know, she was a victim

1149
00:58:27,280 --> 00:58:29,240
Speaker 4: really and that he was responsible for this?

1150
00:58:30,120 --> 00:58:32,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a little bit of you know, she seems

1151
00:58:32,440 --> 00:58:35,320
Speaker 2: a little like unhinged, no question, But again, is that

1152
00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:36,080
Speaker 2: a crime to be?

1153
00:58:36,120 --> 00:58:38,360
Speaker 3: On hand? She's hinge. She seems like a.

1154
00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:41,640
Speaker 2: Little bit out there and a little less you know,

1155
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:44,680
Speaker 2: a little less apologetic than perhaps we would want her

1156
00:58:44,680 --> 00:58:47,720
Speaker 2: to be. You know, her parents were also on the documentary.

1157
00:58:48,040 --> 00:58:51,240
Speaker 2: Her former sister in law also appears on the documentary.

1158
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:54,280
Speaker 2: And look, she just seems like this very young girl

1159
00:58:54,360 --> 00:58:57,160
Speaker 2: who's now an adult woman who did serve her time.

1160
00:58:57,840 --> 00:59:01,760
Speaker 2: And again it sounds like I'm justifying Sherry Pippini's behavior.

1161
00:59:01,920 --> 00:59:04,840
Speaker 3: I am not. I'm just saying and seeing it.

1162
00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:07,000
Speaker 2: I felt a little compassion for her, just as a

1163
00:59:07,040 --> 00:59:09,960
Speaker 2: woman who really felt like she was a bit trapped

1164
00:59:09,960 --> 00:59:13,840
Speaker 2: financially and you know, wanted to have a little excitement

1165
00:59:13,880 --> 00:59:14,480
Speaker 2: in her life.

1166
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:16,240
Speaker 3: And man that ever backfire.

1167
00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:19,200
Speaker 4: I mean I would feel the same way if she

1168
00:59:19,240 --> 00:59:22,080
Speaker 4: didn't blame two Hispanic women and they can torture herself.

1169
00:59:22,160 --> 00:59:25,400
Speaker 2: Oh what she said about that was that she because

1170
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:28,840
Speaker 2: she felt like she was afraid. Because now her story is,

1171
00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:31,360
Speaker 2: as I say this, I'm changing my vote. Okay, because

1172
00:59:31,360 --> 00:59:34,560
Speaker 2: now her story is the boyfriend that she was, you know,

1173
00:59:34,840 --> 00:59:37,720
Speaker 2: hanging with for that you know, little stint that she's

1174
00:59:37,720 --> 00:59:40,720
Speaker 2: saying that he was actually abusive and he did the

1175
00:59:40,760 --> 00:59:43,600
Speaker 2: branding and it was against her will, and she was

1176
00:59:43,600 --> 00:59:46,440
Speaker 2: too afraid to tell anybody when she came back, and

1177
00:59:46,480 --> 00:59:49,480
Speaker 2: that her way of telling people was that in the

1178
00:59:49,640 --> 00:59:54,400
Speaker 2: sketch of the Hispanic woman, apparently that sketch looks just

1179
00:59:54,640 --> 00:59:58,439
Speaker 2: like the ex boyfriend's mother, and that was a way

1180
00:59:58,480 --> 01:00:00,000
Speaker 2: for her to signal to a thought.

1181
01:00:00,960 --> 01:00:01,640
Speaker 3: Wink wink.

1182
01:00:02,240 --> 01:00:04,960
Speaker 2: You know, I know I'm saying to Hispanic women, but

1183
01:00:05,040 --> 01:00:08,680
Speaker 2: here's a picture of my ex boyfriend who branded me

1184
01:00:08,920 --> 01:00:10,200
Speaker 2: against my own wills.

1185
01:00:10,760 --> 01:00:11,040
Speaker 3: Mother.

1186
01:00:11,360 --> 01:00:13,600
Speaker 4: Okay, Well, I'm rolling my eyes again. I am rolling

1187
01:00:13,600 --> 01:00:16,120
Speaker 4: my again. We'll stick around because we've got a lot

1188
01:00:16,160 --> 01:00:18,440
Speaker 4: more to dig into. A lot more. We're gonna be

1189
01:00:18,440 --> 01:00:22,000
Speaker 4: talking about Todd and Julie Chrisly's pardon from prison, and

1190
01:00:22,120 --> 01:00:24,520
Speaker 4: later we're going to be hearing from you stick around

1191
01:00:24,680 --> 01:00:27,400
Speaker 4: true crime tonight will we talk true crime all the time.

1192
01:00:36,680 --> 01:00:41,200
Speaker 2: So, guys, the Chrislies have been pardoned. You know America's

1193
01:00:41,320 --> 01:00:46,080
Speaker 2: reality TV star gems. If you haven't seen their show before,

1194
01:00:46,160 --> 01:00:48,720
Speaker 2: it's called Chrisly Knows Best. It was on for many

1195
01:00:48,720 --> 01:00:53,600
Speaker 2: many years. And then the parents, Todd Krisly, Julie Chrisly,

1196
01:00:54,200 --> 01:00:58,640
Speaker 2: they were they were basically imprisoned for tax evasion and

1197
01:00:58,720 --> 01:01:04,080
Speaker 2: now we're pardoned by is it in Trump't.

1198
01:01:02,280 --> 01:01:04,720
Speaker 4: Think it's making all the news and like, listen, if

1199
01:01:04,720 --> 01:01:07,520
Speaker 4: you work like two jobs like me, I didn't. I

1200
01:01:07,520 --> 01:01:09,720
Speaker 4: didn't even know about this. I had to learn all

1201
01:01:09,760 --> 01:01:11,920
Speaker 4: about this. So if you're anything like me and you're

1202
01:01:11,960 --> 01:01:14,240
Speaker 4: just too busy, I'm going to bring up to speed

1203
01:01:14,320 --> 01:01:17,200
Speaker 4: because it's everywhere right now, it's all over social media.

1204
01:01:17,640 --> 01:01:20,560
Speaker 4: Savannah his daughter, I should say their daughter, because right

1205
01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:23,120
Speaker 4: now it feels like Todd's getting all the attention, doesn't it.

1206
01:01:23,160 --> 01:01:26,800
Speaker 3: Poor Julie.

1207
01:01:27,080 --> 01:01:30,760
Speaker 2: By the way, Julie deserves a high five because Todd

1208
01:01:30,840 --> 01:01:32,120
Speaker 2: does steal her spotlight.

1209
01:01:32,280 --> 01:01:33,240
Speaker 3: I mean at the press.

1210
01:01:33,320 --> 01:01:36,360
Speaker 4: So there was a press conference and it was it

1211
01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:40,160
Speaker 4: was Todd and Savannah his daughter, their daughter. See I'm

1212
01:01:40,200 --> 01:01:44,480
Speaker 4: doing it an it's their daughter, Well, Savannah, it kind

1213
01:01:44,480 --> 01:01:48,800
Speaker 4: of led this effort, this campaign to pardon her parents.

1214
01:01:49,440 --> 01:01:52,520
Speaker 4: And she got a phone call last week from President

1215
01:01:52,560 --> 01:01:55,560
Speaker 4: Donald Trump and said, you know, your parents seem like

1216
01:01:55,560 --> 01:01:58,960
Speaker 4: really nice people. I feel like they've been railroaded. I'm paraphrasing, please,

1217
01:01:59,120 --> 01:02:01,680
Speaker 4: you know, I feel like they've been railroaded. They're going

1218
01:02:01,720 --> 01:02:05,400
Speaker 4: to be home tomorrow. And sure enough, guess what, she

1219
01:02:05,480 --> 01:02:07,680
Speaker 4: went and picked them up. The next day, they're home

1220
01:02:08,280 --> 01:02:11,720
Speaker 4: and guess what else, guess who was with her. We're

1221
01:02:11,800 --> 01:02:14,720
Speaker 4: learning this is breaking news a camera crew.

1222
01:02:15,320 --> 01:02:18,600
Speaker 3: I'm so unsurprising, and I know it's very unsurprising.

1223
01:02:19,000 --> 01:02:23,240
Speaker 4: So Lifetime green lit a project to kind of document

1224
01:02:23,320 --> 01:02:26,960
Speaker 4: the struggles that you know, the family's facing. You know,

1225
01:02:27,000 --> 01:02:30,120
Speaker 4: the parents are in prison, the kids are taking care

1226
01:02:30,120 --> 01:02:32,920
Speaker 4: of the other kids. It's, you know, a sad situation,

1227
01:02:33,120 --> 01:02:36,439
Speaker 4: very surface level. Well, right after this got green lit,

1228
01:02:36,520 --> 01:02:40,240
Speaker 4: they got pardoned. So now the project is apparently changing. Right,

1229
01:02:40,720 --> 01:02:42,760
Speaker 4: It's not going to be these poor kids, you know,

1230
01:02:42,880 --> 01:02:46,120
Speaker 4: talking to their parents on you know, monitors and you know,

1231
01:02:46,560 --> 01:02:49,880
Speaker 4: through email tablets and in jail. They're going to be

1232
01:02:49,880 --> 01:02:53,040
Speaker 4: talking face to face in person. This is completely changes

1233
01:02:53,080 --> 01:02:55,720
Speaker 4: the project. And I mean, I feel like Lifetime really

1234
01:02:55,760 --> 01:02:59,640
Speaker 4: scored here right, like watching, Oh, I'll be watching for sure.

1235
01:03:00,040 --> 01:03:02,760
Speaker 2: It's pretty interesting because Todd Crisly, who's the patriarch of

1236
01:03:02,840 --> 01:03:04,880
Speaker 2: the family and on the show, if you've never seen it,

1237
01:03:04,960 --> 01:03:10,120
Speaker 2: he is sort of this bossy, flamboyant, ritzy, fancy guy

1238
01:03:10,200 --> 01:03:12,560
Speaker 2: and he runs the roost. That's kind of the stick.

1239
01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:16,400
Speaker 2: And Julie is his devoted wife. And look, Julie went

1240
01:03:16,480 --> 01:03:18,840
Speaker 2: down with him. The two of them definitely served some time.

1241
01:03:19,320 --> 01:03:22,720
Speaker 2: But Todd the dad was very outspoken about the prison

1242
01:03:22,760 --> 01:03:25,760
Speaker 2: conditions and the prison that he was being held in

1243
01:03:26,280 --> 01:03:29,440
Speaker 2: is actually being kind of put to rest, like they're

1244
01:03:29,680 --> 01:03:33,640
Speaker 2: slowly getting rid of inmates, and that might be a

1245
01:03:33,680 --> 01:03:36,360
Speaker 2: part of this equation that's alleged. We don't know that

1246
01:03:36,400 --> 01:03:40,160
Speaker 2: for sure. But interestingly enough, do you guys remember when

1247
01:03:40,240 --> 01:03:45,800
Speaker 2: Kim Kardashian when she got an inmate released from prison

1248
01:03:46,000 --> 01:03:49,240
Speaker 2: several years ago. Her name was Alice Marie Johnson.

1249
01:03:49,280 --> 01:03:50,040
Speaker 3: Do you guys remember this?

1250
01:03:50,120 --> 01:03:54,520
Speaker 2: She was doing time for cocaine distribution for life without parole.

1251
01:03:54,880 --> 01:03:55,840
Speaker 3: Now she's free.

1252
01:03:56,200 --> 01:04:01,280
Speaker 2: She's working within the Trump administration as like a tzar,

1253
01:04:01,800 --> 01:04:05,000
Speaker 2: the pardon czar. I'm not totally sure what their leans

1254
01:04:05,080 --> 01:04:06,440
Speaker 2: but it's like a real thing.

1255
01:04:07,400 --> 01:04:14,120
Speaker 3: Kim Kardashian is no, no Alice. You just got to

1256
01:04:14,200 --> 01:04:17,280
Speaker 3: keep up. You got to keep up. So it's really Alice.

1257
01:04:17,400 --> 01:04:21,360
Speaker 2: Marie Johnson is the woman who was behind bars, and

1258
01:04:21,480 --> 01:04:26,360
Speaker 2: due to Kim Kardashian's you know, impact, as she has

1259
01:04:26,400 --> 01:04:29,720
Speaker 2: been released and now she's in charge of getting the

1260
01:04:29,800 --> 01:04:32,120
Speaker 2: Chris Lyes out, so she's sort of air quotes paying

1261
01:04:32,160 --> 01:04:34,760
Speaker 2: it forward. And if you saw the you know, the

1262
01:04:34,840 --> 01:04:37,640
Speaker 2: press conference that Todd did you know he is speaking

1263
01:04:37,680 --> 01:04:41,000
Speaker 2: about prison reform and that it's inequitable, which of course

1264
01:04:41,040 --> 01:04:44,600
Speaker 2: it is, and that's sort of his now new mission.

1265
01:04:45,120 --> 01:04:47,760
Speaker 2: But we'll kind of we'll see. What's kind of terrible though,

1266
01:04:48,040 --> 01:04:50,960
Speaker 2: is poor Julie the wife. I shouldn't say poor Julie

1267
01:04:50,960 --> 01:04:53,880
Speaker 2: because she was convicted of a very serious crime, So

1268
01:04:53,960 --> 01:04:55,400
Speaker 2: I say that a little bit. I don't mean to

1269
01:04:55,400 --> 01:04:59,680
Speaker 2: be glib, but she came out from prison now years

1270
01:04:59,760 --> 01:05:02,520
Speaker 2: later her and she typically has very bright blonde hair

1271
01:05:02,680 --> 01:05:06,439
Speaker 2: and is in full makeup, and now she has gray

1272
01:05:06,480 --> 01:05:09,360
Speaker 2: hair and no makeup and is a different woman. Time

1273
01:05:09,400 --> 01:05:11,960
Speaker 2: has passed, well, she's only been impressed for like three years,

1274
01:05:12,200 --> 01:05:13,400
Speaker 2: but still she's not like.

1275
01:05:14,960 --> 01:05:18,160
Speaker 3: And your roots. I get you, Yeah, maybe she has

1276
01:05:18,280 --> 01:05:19,240
Speaker 3: gray hair, yet I don't know.

1277
01:05:19,760 --> 01:05:22,240
Speaker 2: I'm very like, yeah, quitting, I don't know, I know,

1278
01:05:23,280 --> 01:05:27,200
Speaker 2: and I'm a natural blonde to right. So they say, well,

1279
01:05:27,240 --> 01:05:29,360
Speaker 2: so Julie gets out, she's great, and all everyone talks

1280
01:05:29,360 --> 01:05:31,520
Speaker 2: about is how Todd is so ripped and he's so

1281
01:05:32,080 --> 01:05:33,959
Speaker 2: and how terrible poor Julie looks.

1282
01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:36,320
Speaker 4: And they even mentioned at the press conference about how

1283
01:05:36,320 --> 01:05:37,800
Speaker 4: it beamed.

1284
01:05:38,240 --> 01:05:41,320
Speaker 5: So mom, she's like, he looks so much better coming

1285
01:05:41,360 --> 01:05:42,720
Speaker 5: out than he looked going in.

1286
01:05:42,800 --> 01:05:43,880
Speaker 3: It did him a favor.

1287
01:05:44,600 --> 01:05:48,440
Speaker 5: So I wanted really quickly to talk about presidential pardons

1288
01:05:48,480 --> 01:05:51,640
Speaker 5: because this got me a google. I really said, you

1289
01:05:51,640 --> 01:05:53,760
Speaker 5: know what, I have no idea how it actually works.

1290
01:05:54,520 --> 01:05:58,160
Speaker 5: So not a history lesson, real quick a pardon. It's

1291
01:05:58,160 --> 01:06:00,880
Speaker 5: a form of legal forgiveness and it's granted only by

1292
01:06:00,880 --> 01:06:05,640
Speaker 5: the president. It specifically wipes away a federal conviction and

1293
01:06:05,680 --> 01:06:07,040
Speaker 5: any related punishment.

1294
01:06:07,440 --> 01:06:10,200
Speaker 3: It doesn't apply to state charges. So that's and that's

1295
01:06:10,200 --> 01:06:11,840
Speaker 3: why this is a big deal for Diddy too.

1296
01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:15,160
Speaker 2: So, just to circle back to an earlier conversation, that

1297
01:06:15,240 --> 01:06:18,760
Speaker 2: would give the president the power to potentially release Diddy

1298
01:06:18,920 --> 01:06:19,800
Speaker 2: should he choose to.

1299
01:06:19,920 --> 01:06:21,200
Speaker 3: And again, this is not a Trump thing.

1300
01:06:21,760 --> 01:06:26,480
Speaker 2: You know, every president roster of pardon, so you know,

1301
01:06:26,480 --> 01:06:29,840
Speaker 2: we're keeping out of any of that judgment. But you know,

1302
01:06:29,880 --> 01:06:32,520
Speaker 2: look what he said, you know at his press conference

1303
01:06:32,640 --> 01:06:36,200
Speaker 2: and by him, I mean Todd Qrisley with his daughter Savannah,

1304
01:06:36,440 --> 01:06:40,440
Speaker 2: is that you know, he received terrible treatment behind behind

1305
01:06:40,520 --> 01:06:44,480
Speaker 2: prison bars, but that he had better treatment than some

1306
01:06:44,560 --> 01:06:47,840
Speaker 2: of his fellow inmates, and that there's a race disparity

1307
01:06:47,960 --> 01:06:51,840
Speaker 2: in that. That's something that he's going to now be

1308
01:06:51,880 --> 01:06:53,880
Speaker 2: a priority and that's going to be his platform.

1309
01:06:54,000 --> 01:06:55,720
Speaker 3: So he's going to pay it forward.

1310
01:06:56,040 --> 01:06:58,240
Speaker 4: I tell you, I was very judgmental when I was

1311
01:06:58,600 --> 01:07:01,520
Speaker 4: going into watching this press I was like, a rich

1312
01:07:01,560 --> 01:07:02,520
Speaker 4: guy gets pardoned.

1313
01:07:02,560 --> 01:07:03,720
Speaker 3: Okay, you know what I mean.

1314
01:07:03,760 --> 01:07:06,160
Speaker 4: But then when I actually listened to it, I was

1315
01:07:06,160 --> 01:07:08,560
Speaker 4: actually pretty impressed with what he had to say.

1316
01:07:08,720 --> 01:07:10,080
Speaker 3: You know, but here's a thing.

1317
01:07:10,320 --> 01:07:12,760
Speaker 4: I'm still going to be judgmental, because you can say

1318
01:07:12,760 --> 01:07:13,760
Speaker 4: one thing and not do it.

1319
01:07:14,240 --> 01:07:15,600
Speaker 3: But he said he's going.

1320
01:07:15,360 --> 01:07:19,240
Speaker 4: To use his voice, you know, and champion these issues

1321
01:07:19,280 --> 01:07:21,880
Speaker 4: in the pedal system, and if he sticks to that,

1322
01:07:22,160 --> 01:07:22,720
Speaker 4: I'm a fan.

1323
01:07:23,280 --> 01:07:25,840
Speaker 2: And by the way, the statistics are pretty harrowing, and

1324
01:07:25,880 --> 01:07:28,120
Speaker 2: he may note of this in the press conference as well,

1325
01:07:28,160 --> 01:07:30,920
Speaker 2: and we did another googling of that as well. The

1326
01:07:30,920 --> 01:07:34,640
Speaker 2: Bureau of Justice Statistics says that twelve point four percent

1327
01:07:34,680 --> 01:07:38,800
Speaker 2: of the population is African American, yet thirty two percent

1328
01:07:39,320 --> 01:07:44,400
Speaker 2: of individuals in the state or federal system are also

1329
01:07:44,600 --> 01:07:45,480
Speaker 2: African Americans.

1330
01:07:45,480 --> 01:07:47,720
Speaker 3: So that seems, you know, unfair. And he made a

1331
01:07:47,880 --> 01:07:48,720
Speaker 3: very clean example.

1332
01:07:48,840 --> 01:07:51,880
Speaker 2: Is like he was able to get some sort of

1333
01:07:51,920 --> 01:07:55,240
Speaker 2: privileges that some of his fellow inmates were not, and

1334
01:07:55,280 --> 01:07:58,280
Speaker 2: he felt that that was racially charged. So look, if

1335
01:07:58,320 --> 01:08:01,800
Speaker 2: he could shed a highlight on something positive and make

1336
01:08:01,840 --> 01:08:06,200
Speaker 2: this mess something positive, great. If not, somehow, I'm still

1337
01:08:06,200 --> 01:08:07,760
Speaker 2: going to be watching the Lifetime show.

1338
01:08:07,800 --> 01:08:12,280
Speaker 4: Don't judge me, judge, where's my gavel? I need a gavel,

1339
01:08:12,320 --> 01:08:16,040
Speaker 4: sound judge to the judge. But you know, again, a

1340
01:08:16,080 --> 01:08:19,360
Speaker 4: real fall from grace, you know. So now their family

1341
01:08:19,479 --> 01:08:22,080
Speaker 4: is back together, hopefully for happier times.

1342
01:08:24,360 --> 01:08:26,559
Speaker 2: Well, you guys look so convinced. I just saw dummy

1343
01:08:26,640 --> 01:08:29,719
Speaker 2: eye rolls. Nobody cares about Julie Chrisly's hair journey.

1344
01:08:29,880 --> 01:08:33,400
Speaker 3: I mean, I really don't, don't.

1345
01:08:33,760 --> 01:08:37,519
Speaker 5: They're thirty million dollars that they care they had.

1346
01:08:37,680 --> 01:08:39,840
Speaker 3: It's it's hard for my heart to bleed.

1347
01:08:39,920 --> 01:08:42,280
Speaker 5: Sympathy same, you know, when you've been doing that when

1348
01:08:42,280 --> 01:08:44,000
Speaker 5: people don't have a dollar to their name.

1349
01:08:44,320 --> 01:08:47,519
Speaker 4: Right, And I mean would if if they didn't have money,

1350
01:08:48,080 --> 01:08:49,880
Speaker 4: right and they weren't so high profile, would they be

1351
01:08:49,920 --> 01:08:53,000
Speaker 4: getting a pardon. That's also like something that I think about,

1352
01:08:53,040 --> 01:08:55,920
Speaker 4: you know, like why them and not the you know

1353
01:08:56,000 --> 01:08:56,479
Speaker 4: his sell me?

1354
01:08:57,280 --> 01:08:59,880
Speaker 2: Well, his take on that is that he was on

1355
01:09:00,120 --> 01:09:02,200
Speaker 2: fairly targeted or everybody says that.

1356
01:09:02,960 --> 01:09:05,200
Speaker 4: Nobody's going like, yeah, I did it, I'm guilty. I

1357
01:09:05,640 --> 01:09:08,719
Speaker 4: deserve to be here. Hardly anybody does that. They're all,

1358
01:09:08,880 --> 01:09:11,240
Speaker 4: you know, innocent and head they've all been railroaded.

1359
01:09:11,640 --> 01:09:13,320
Speaker 3: Why them? Why?

1360
01:09:14,040 --> 01:09:18,080
Speaker 2: Well, he believes that law enforcement specifically targeted them because

1361
01:09:18,280 --> 01:09:22,320
Speaker 2: of their fame and their notoriety, and that that is

1362
01:09:22,400 --> 01:09:25,479
Speaker 2: why he just honestly, he couldn't he couldn't get a

1363
01:09:25,520 --> 01:09:27,599
Speaker 2: fair shake. By the way, They're not the only ones

1364
01:09:27,640 --> 01:09:30,960
Speaker 2: in reality TV who have had a bad a bad run.

1365
01:09:31,280 --> 01:09:35,559
Speaker 2: You know, remember the Teresa from the Real Housewives of

1366
01:09:35,640 --> 01:09:36,240
Speaker 2: New Journey.

1367
01:09:36,560 --> 01:09:38,600
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, I thought you're gonna say me, I was

1368
01:09:38,600 --> 01:09:42,160
Speaker 3: gonna know. I would never let go to prison. He

1369
01:09:42,200 --> 01:09:42,559
Speaker 3: went to.

1370
01:09:42,600 --> 01:09:46,320
Speaker 5: Prison, and our husband, Joe Judice, I believe it is

1371
01:09:46,400 --> 01:09:48,080
Speaker 5: and he doesn't even like.

1372
01:09:49,880 --> 01:09:50,400
Speaker 3: To Italy.

1373
01:09:51,200 --> 01:09:54,880
Speaker 5: That's right, there's another story. We'll just touch on it

1374
01:09:54,920 --> 01:09:56,840
Speaker 5: a little bit. We might need to get into it

1375
01:09:57,000 --> 01:10:00,559
Speaker 5: another time because it's a big one. But did you

1376
01:10:00,560 --> 01:10:04,879
Speaker 5: guys hear about the Love Island alum Mischelle Barnett.

1377
01:10:05,240 --> 01:10:10,360
Speaker 4: Yes, he lives in Utah, Salt Lake City and his partner.

1378
01:10:10,479 --> 01:10:14,680
Speaker 4: His girlfriend reported threats to her life, assault and attempted

1379
01:10:14,720 --> 01:10:18,400
Speaker 4: strangulation in front of their child, in front of their

1380
01:10:18,400 --> 01:10:22,720
Speaker 4: little kid. She suffered symptoms including she couldn't breathe, she

1381
01:10:22,800 --> 01:10:25,120
Speaker 4: had some neck pains, she was throwing up, she couldn't

1382
01:10:25,160 --> 01:10:28,320
Speaker 4: remember anything. And now if you don't know who he is,

1383
01:10:28,360 --> 01:10:31,679
Speaker 4: he was on Love Island Season USA season one and

1384
01:10:32,439 --> 01:10:35,320
Speaker 4: The Challenge USA in twenty twenty two. Now, this is

1385
01:10:35,360 --> 01:10:37,800
Speaker 4: a pretty big mental break. And I have to tell you,

1386
01:10:37,800 --> 01:10:39,600
Speaker 4: as somebody that's spent on reality TV. I was on

1387
01:10:39,640 --> 01:10:44,639
Speaker 4: The Mole on Netflix. You go through massive mental testing.

1388
01:10:45,240 --> 01:10:48,240
Speaker 4: They don't just accept anybody. You have to basically pass

1389
01:10:48,520 --> 01:10:54,200
Speaker 4: mental like excruciating mental challenges in order to even get

1390
01:10:54,200 --> 01:10:55,880
Speaker 4: accepted to be on the show because they put you

1391
01:10:55,920 --> 01:10:58,640
Speaker 4: through hell. You guys, I mean, they really put you

1392
01:10:58,680 --> 01:11:00,680
Speaker 4: through the ring. Are all worth it, by the but

1393
01:11:01,120 --> 01:11:03,840
Speaker 4: I will say it's it's harrowing that the things that

1394
01:11:03,880 --> 01:11:06,439
Speaker 4: you have to go through. So I'm really surprised that

1395
01:11:06,479 --> 01:11:10,360
Speaker 4: a lot of these reality stars are experiencing some of

1396
01:11:10,439 --> 01:11:13,880
Speaker 4: these mental breaks. I'm very surprised because I mean, I

1397
01:11:13,960 --> 01:11:16,400
Speaker 4: just can't imagine going through all these tests and then

1398
01:11:16,439 --> 01:11:17,719
Speaker 4: having this kind of thing happen.

1399
01:11:18,080 --> 01:11:21,120
Speaker 5: Well, that's that's a fair point, because those batteries of

1400
01:11:21,240 --> 01:11:25,639
Speaker 5: tests and they are they are deep, they're intense, they're intense,

1401
01:11:26,080 --> 01:11:28,479
Speaker 5: So it kind of begs the question to me is

1402
01:11:28,520 --> 01:11:33,400
Speaker 5: that does someone go in mentally healthy, stable, strong of

1403
01:11:33,520 --> 01:11:37,160
Speaker 5: mind and then the process something happens.

1404
01:11:37,760 --> 01:11:38,200
Speaker 3: I don't know.

1405
01:11:38,720 --> 01:11:42,160
Speaker 2: It has been a real night of chat and we're

1406
01:11:42,160 --> 01:11:44,479
Speaker 2: going to be here tomorrow also talking about some of

1407
01:11:44,479 --> 01:11:47,080
Speaker 2: the stuff that we covered tonight as well. The Didy

1408
01:11:47,120 --> 01:11:50,280
Speaker 2: trial Week four kicks off on Monday, as well as

1409
01:11:50,280 --> 01:11:53,880
Speaker 2: the Karen Reid trial. The defense kicks in tomorrow, so

1410
01:11:53,920 --> 01:11:56,400
Speaker 2: we'll be covering that all week as well. And there

1411
01:11:56,439 --> 01:12:00,280
Speaker 2: also might be a killer, potentially a serial killer in

1412
01:12:00,320 --> 01:12:03,720
Speaker 2: the Northeast. So this doesn't work if we don't hear

1413
01:12:03,760 --> 01:12:06,760
Speaker 2: from you, So any night this week, please call us

1414
01:12:06,800 --> 01:12:09,360
Speaker 2: at eight eight eight three to one Crime and we

1415
01:12:09,439 --> 01:12:13,120
Speaker 2: actually have a caller right now named Abraham, So we're

1416
01:12:13,160 --> 01:12:15,640
Speaker 2: looking forward to hearing from that. And also if there

1417
01:12:15,680 --> 01:12:19,280
Speaker 2: are cases that you want us to cover or start tracking,

1418
01:12:19,400 --> 01:12:21,880
Speaker 2: please also let us know that as well. The whole

1419
01:12:21,920 --> 01:12:24,400
Speaker 2: idea of this is to create a swell and have

1420
01:12:24,439 --> 01:12:26,280
Speaker 2: a conversation for all of us.

1421
01:12:26,920 --> 01:12:30,320
Speaker 3: So, Abraham, what do we think? I don't know.

1422
01:12:30,400 --> 01:12:32,479
Speaker 5: I'm dying to know what Abraham has to say. How

1423
01:12:32,520 --> 01:12:33,400
Speaker 5: are you this evening?

1424
01:12:33,800 --> 01:12:34,560
Speaker 3: Hi? Abraham?

1425
01:12:35,200 --> 01:12:36,799
Speaker 6: Hi, I'm good. How are you guys?

1426
01:12:37,160 --> 01:12:39,160
Speaker 3: We're good. Where are you calling us from?

1427
01:12:39,800 --> 01:12:43,519
Speaker 6: I am in Phoenix, Chandler specifically, I love thanks.

1428
01:12:43,600 --> 01:12:46,920
Speaker 3: Thanks for joining us on our first night. Abraham, what

1429
01:12:47,120 --> 01:12:47,719
Speaker 3: is your question?

1430
01:12:48,600 --> 01:12:48,720
Speaker 1: Hi?

1431
01:12:48,880 --> 01:12:51,360
Speaker 6: So I was listening for the on the Ditty Trial

1432
01:12:52,040 --> 01:12:54,599
Speaker 6: and I was just wondering, don't do you guys feel

1433
01:12:54,640 --> 01:12:57,760
Speaker 6: like you know? These a lot of these testimonies, these

1434
01:12:57,760 --> 01:13:02,080
Speaker 6: people are risking everything, you know, like how protected? How

1435
01:13:02,120 --> 01:13:04,360
Speaker 6: protected are they when they when they're using you know,

1436
01:13:04,439 --> 01:13:07,400
Speaker 6: a different name, but everybody knows that it was a

1437
01:13:07,439 --> 01:13:09,760
Speaker 6: former assistant, you know, Like how protected could they be?

1438
01:13:10,160 --> 01:13:13,080
Speaker 6: Could the court really pull them?

1439
01:13:13,360 --> 01:13:15,160
Speaker 3: Great question? Did he sitting right there?

1440
01:13:15,240 --> 01:13:17,679
Speaker 2: So they can be as anonymous as they want by name,

1441
01:13:17,800 --> 01:13:21,400
Speaker 2: But there, you're sitting right in front of the person

1442
01:13:21,439 --> 01:13:23,639
Speaker 2: who you're most afraid of, and right question.

1443
01:13:23,880 --> 01:13:28,559
Speaker 4: Again, he's being charged with racketeering, so that means basically

1444
01:13:28,600 --> 01:13:31,640
Speaker 4: they're saying that he has a criminal enterprise, which means basically,

1445
01:13:32,280 --> 01:13:34,400
Speaker 4: you know, he has a team of people that are

1446
01:13:34,439 --> 01:13:37,519
Speaker 4: doing his bidding, right, and they're not all locked up,

1447
01:13:38,080 --> 01:13:39,240
Speaker 4: So are they at risk?

1448
01:13:39,479 --> 01:13:43,519
Speaker 3: I think that's an excellent question. There's a great question. See.

1449
01:13:43,600 --> 01:13:46,640
Speaker 5: I like to think since this is now out in

1450
01:13:46,720 --> 01:13:50,040
Speaker 5: the light of day, it's at least less risky. I'm

1451
01:13:50,040 --> 01:13:53,919
Speaker 5: not saying no risk at all, and I'm the bravery.

1452
01:13:53,960 --> 01:13:58,599
Speaker 5: I can't even begin to applaud on their end. But now,

1453
01:13:58,680 --> 01:14:01,679
Speaker 5: I mean, you know, even with pseudonyms like you said,

1454
01:14:01,800 --> 01:14:04,880
Speaker 5: now everyone knows everything. So I think it would have

1455
01:14:04,920 --> 01:14:09,200
Speaker 5: been much more dangerous prior to stop someone before they

1456
01:14:09,200 --> 01:14:11,680
Speaker 5: were going to testify. And now it's kind of the

1457
01:14:11,760 --> 01:14:15,840
Speaker 5: damage is done and the federal government would be after

1458
01:14:16,240 --> 01:14:19,880
Speaker 5: Diddy and any cohorts so quickly, is my thought.

1459
01:14:20,479 --> 01:14:23,360
Speaker 2: But you just don't know. I mean, he knows somebody everywhere.

1460
01:14:23,400 --> 01:14:25,920
Speaker 2: I mean, that's the assertion, right, is that there are

1461
01:14:26,680 --> 01:14:29,720
Speaker 2: people around every bend that are getting paid off. We

1462
01:14:29,840 --> 01:14:32,840
Speaker 2: saw that happen at the CNN when that video was

1463
01:14:32,920 --> 01:14:36,880
Speaker 2: leaked of Cassie Ventura being beaten up. The reality is

1464
01:14:37,240 --> 01:14:41,280
Speaker 2: that was surveillance footage that was from many years ago,

1465
01:14:41,800 --> 01:14:44,679
Speaker 2: and did he paid people off so that never saw

1466
01:14:44,720 --> 01:14:49,160
Speaker 2: the light of day allegedly, So you know, to that end, yeah,

1467
01:14:49,240 --> 01:14:51,920
Speaker 2: I think it's pretty dangerous and I think it's really

1468
01:14:51,960 --> 01:14:55,360
Speaker 2: brave for any witness in a high profile case to

1469
01:14:55,400 --> 01:14:59,000
Speaker 2: come forward. Period the end, and you know, I guess

1470
01:14:59,000 --> 01:15:01,559
Speaker 2: this week will be very ten because there's many more

1471
01:15:01,600 --> 01:15:04,000
Speaker 2: to come. So please, you know, the hope is that

1472
01:15:04,000 --> 01:15:05,720
Speaker 2: you're going to stay with us all week as we

1473
01:15:05,840 --> 01:15:09,120
Speaker 2: follow this trial and so many more because this is

1474
01:15:09,160 --> 01:15:12,320
Speaker 2: the summer of trials. There are so many around the

1475
01:15:12,360 --> 01:15:15,720
Speaker 2: bend and look, we're not lawyers, but we do love

1476
01:15:15,800 --> 01:15:18,400
Speaker 2: to unpack it and unrelated to one. So we'll have

1477
01:15:18,439 --> 01:15:21,439
Speaker 2: to call him tomorrow as well, So stay with us,

1478
01:15:21,560 --> 01:15:24,519
Speaker 2: please join us. Thank you for a great first night,

1479
01:15:25,080 --> 01:15:26,880
Speaker 2: and thank you for those that called in, and we

1480
01:15:26,960 --> 01:15:30,000
Speaker 2: look so much forward to hearing more. This has been

1481
01:15:30,080 --> 01:15:34,000
Speaker 2: true Crime Tonight, where we talk about true crime all

1482
01:15:34,040 --> 01:15:34,479
Speaker 2: the time.