1 00:00:01,160 --> 00:00:04,000 Speaker 1: I'm Matt Miller and I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is 2 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: hot pursuit. 3 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 2: All right, we have a pretty interesting guest today who 4 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:18,960 Speaker 2: has won a Cannonball Run. 5 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:22,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm mystery Man of the Car World, if you will. 6 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:24,120 Speaker 1: By the way, someone who's been around forever. 7 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:28,319 Speaker 2: I gotta say, I'm I think I'm older than you. 8 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 2: But when I was a kid, Cannonball Run was the 9 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 2: first movies. I'm sorry, sorry, I'm just saying because of 10 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:36,839 Speaker 2: the date right when Cannonball Run came out, the original 11 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 2: with Burt Reynolds, which was a long long time ago, 12 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:42,960 Speaker 2: that's one of the first movies I saw that really 13 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:45,720 Speaker 2: got me kind of obsessed with cars. 14 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:46,959 Speaker 3: I'm gonna google it right. 15 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:48,600 Speaker 1: Now to see you exactly when it came His guest 16 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 1: is Alex Roy. I mean, why why delay? This is 17 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:55,280 Speaker 1: Alex Roy, who kind of is like this international Man 18 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 1: of Mystery slash world's most interesting car guy. I was 19 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 1: reading his Wikipedia page and we should ask him about this. 20 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:05,760 Speaker 1: It said that in two thousand and four he won 21 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 1: a British reality TV series called The Ultimate Playboy, which 22 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 1: I was not aware of. We should definitely ask him 23 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:14,200 Speaker 1: about He has the look, so I feel like I 24 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:18,320 Speaker 1: should give some context here because basically I called Alex 25 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 1: I don't know, six weeks ago because I was doing 26 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 1: a story about rallies and especially about Millimelia coming to 27 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:29,679 Speaker 1: the US, and the number one person I know who 28 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:34,800 Speaker 1: has done car rallies and cannonball style runs is Alex Roy. 29 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 1: So we when we got to talking, it was just like, Wow, 30 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 1: this is somebody who really has been in cars a 31 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:47,200 Speaker 1: long time and also really knows the underground side of it. 32 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 1: So like after we got off the phone, Alex I 33 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 1: told Matt like we got to have him on because, 34 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 1: especially in light of electric vehicles and autonomous driving, I 35 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 1: just want to hear your thoughts on every everything about 36 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 1: where we are now with people who love cars and 37 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 1: compared to twenty years ago. This isn't really a question. 38 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 1: It's kind of a setup. Matt. 39 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 4: I don't know. 40 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 3: Well, I want to ask. 41 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:14,480 Speaker 2: You, but I think it's weird that I've never that 42 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:17,400 Speaker 2: we've never actually met in person to my knowledge, because 43 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 2: I've been obsessed with cars and covering like the business 44 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:23,119 Speaker 2: side for Bloomberg for twenty years. But I've been following 45 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:29,359 Speaker 2: you from Afar throughout all of your antics and I mean, 46 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 2: and also you give a lot of legit like important reporting, 47 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:40,079 Speaker 2: you know for journalists on self driving stuff and on Tesla. 48 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 2: But I'm more interested in like the Canniball Run in 49 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 2: the Morgan. 50 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 4: Happy to talk about all of it. I mean, actually, Hannah, 51 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:51,800 Speaker 4: our conversation win that direction because there's car reporting and 52 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 4: then there's like luxury goods reporting, like rob report. But 53 00:02:56,320 --> 00:03:02,239 Speaker 4: Hannah a complement, is the only journalist who covers automotive 54 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 4: who has her own fashion language and can actually justify 55 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:12,079 Speaker 4: getting into some of these cars as like a not 56 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 4: just as a driver, but as the kind of person 57 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 4: who would own one. And because most people who buy 58 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 4: these cars have no taste at all, and like they 59 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:19,840 Speaker 4: don't in any way reflect the brands that they are 60 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 4: driving around. They hope the brands reflect on them, but 61 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 4: they do not reflect the brands in least. 62 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:25,519 Speaker 3: That's a very nice that point. 63 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:27,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's what set me off. 64 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 3: Well, where should we start? Then? Should we start? 65 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:32,639 Speaker 2: We were talking about the Cannibal Run movie. I was 66 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 2: saying that it was like the first thing that I 67 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 2: watched that got me into cars. I was born at 68 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 2: the end of seventy three, and it came out in 69 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 2: eighty one, So I was like eight years old or 70 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 2: I was seven turning eight when I saw it? 71 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 3: And was that based on anything real? 72 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 1: Like? 73 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:52,160 Speaker 2: Had there been a true cannonball run before that? Or 74 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 2: is the race that the record that you set based 75 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 2: on the movie? 76 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 3: How's that whole story play out? 77 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 4: Okay? So the answer is that, yes, there was a 78 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 4: real cannonball run race that ran from nineteen seventy one 79 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 4: to nineteen seventy nine. Brock Yates was the progenitor of that. 80 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 4: It ran four times. Right after it ended seventy nine, 81 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:19,360 Speaker 4: a bunch of cannonball drivers and fans who wanted to 82 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:22,839 Speaker 4: keep going decided to put on what they considered a 83 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:26,039 Speaker 4: more professional event with no media coverage, no movie at all, 84 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 4: called the US Express. That race ran four times and 85 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 4: the last one was in the nineteen eighty three and 86 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:35,919 Speaker 4: after that that was pretty much the end of the 87 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 4: classic era of cannonballing. But the most interesting thing about 88 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:45,279 Speaker 4: the Cannonball Run and even its name, isn't the race 89 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:49,160 Speaker 4: from the seventies. It's where the name came from. And 90 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 4: for all the people who think that the cannonball is illegal, dangerous, foolish, 91 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 4: and silly, the name came from a guy named Irwin 92 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 4: Baker whose nickname was Cannonball. Hundred years ago. He was 93 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:05,840 Speaker 4: a motorcycle racer. So in the early twentieth century he 94 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:11,280 Speaker 4: was hired by the first generation of car companies, stutz 95 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:14,920 Speaker 4: Gardner Cadillac to drive their cars from New York to 96 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:18,840 Speaker 4: LA before the interstate Highway system existed, to prove that 97 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 4: cars were intermi combustion cars were reliable, affordable, efficient, and 98 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:27,599 Speaker 4: polluted less than horses and trains, and were the best 99 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:31,160 Speaker 4: way for anyone of any income level to get around. 100 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 4: And so it was at one point front page news 101 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:37,360 Speaker 4: when people went and did this, and it was for 102 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 4: many years, and so that was the person after whom 103 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 4: the current illegal races was named. 104 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:49,720 Speaker 1: That's very cool. So how did you conceive this idea 105 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 1: to attack and attempt a cannon ball run? 106 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:56,680 Speaker 2: And by the way, to state I think the obvious 107 00:05:57,240 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 2: the cannonball run, the US expressed they're not legal races, right, they're. 108 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 1: All not regulated. 109 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:06,719 Speaker 2: Well, there you have to break the speed limit in 110 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:09,719 Speaker 2: order to win, like by a substantial amount for a 111 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:11,159 Speaker 2: very long period of time. 112 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:14,839 Speaker 4: Totally illegal for anyone who wants to set a record. 113 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:17,719 Speaker 4: But anyone can go. There's no organizing body, there's no 114 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:21,200 Speaker 4: rules other than same car stays on the ground and 115 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 4: at least one person in the whole way, although that 116 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:26,599 Speaker 4: might not be true in the future of autonomous records. 117 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 4: The you know, I got into it the way almost 118 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:33,159 Speaker 4: everyone has ever gotten into it. They saw the movie 119 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 4: as a kid. My father talked about it. He wanted 120 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:40,839 Speaker 4: to go, he didn't do it. And so in the 121 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:43,160 Speaker 4: late nineties, I wanted into a nightclub in New York 122 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:46,839 Speaker 4: called Void Now Gone, and they were playing a film 123 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 4: called Rendezvous, which was the famous French nine minute film 124 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 4: Nowhere where Claude, Yeah, Claude de Luche, the French director, 125 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:56,599 Speaker 4: you know, put a camera in the front of a 126 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:59,839 Speaker 4: car and drove across Paris in nine minutes and change. 127 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 4: And after that, I'm like, I'm going to do that someday. 128 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 4: And so I put that in the hat alongside cannonball 129 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 4: and anything else I can think of, and I'm like, 130 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 4: I'm going to do that eventually. When I had the 131 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 4: time and money in my thirties, I'm like, I did 132 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 4: do it. But the thing is cannonball a word like 133 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 4: the as entered into like kind of the English vernacular. 134 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:28,239 Speaker 4: As a word to just do dangerous stuff in a car. 135 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 4: So it's been bastardized and conflated with so many other things, 136 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 4: sometimes by people with good intentions, but often by people 137 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 4: who want to bask in the glory of the real 138 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 4: thing without actually doing it. And so that is, in 139 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 4: my opinion, where most modern rallies come from, because when 140 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 4: people talk about the cannonball they call it interchangeably a 141 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 4: race or a rally. But in the classic definition, a 142 00:07:56,640 --> 00:08:02,640 Speaker 4: rally is on a public road, timed from point to point. 143 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 4: It's legal, it's sanctioned, there's a governing body and their 144 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 4: entrance who are serious people, generally in vintage cars. And 145 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 4: in nineteen ninety nine, all of these ideas, the conflation, 146 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:19,520 Speaker 4: the confusion, the glory, the desire to drive the fund 147 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 4: was all thrown together by a guy named Maximilian Cooper 148 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 4: out of London, who decided to put on an event 149 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 4: inspired He says, it's inspired by the Gumball Rally movie. 150 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:33,719 Speaker 4: For the Gumball Rally movie itself was inspired by the 151 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:37,440 Speaker 4: Cannonball Run race and so to put the timeline together, 152 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 4: Cannonball Run Race Gumball Rally Movie comes out in seventy 153 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 4: six Canniball Run movie comes out in eighty one, and 154 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 4: then seventeen years later, this Englishman shows up and says, 155 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:51,840 Speaker 4: let me put on an event, a rally call the 156 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 4: Gumball that basts in the glow of the cannonball legend. 157 00:08:56,000 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 4: And yeah, that event, the Gumball three thousand launching Night 158 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:06,839 Speaker 4: ninety nine, is the modern uh you know, it's called 159 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:08,720 Speaker 4: I don't want to say inhertorys it's not a race, 160 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 4: but it is the event that changed and utterly the 161 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 4: landscape of modern car rallies, because prior to that they 162 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 4: were vintage cars and an older demographic, and suddenly had 163 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:23,200 Speaker 4: all these people going in their supercars, stickered up on 164 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 4: public roads and acting egregiously. I was one of them, 165 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:33,559 Speaker 4: and so I went thinking that the Gumball three thousand 166 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:37,680 Speaker 4: was kind of a clearinghouse or unofficial proven ground for 167 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 4: people who wanted to do a real cannonball to meet 168 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:42,440 Speaker 4: each other, and that eventually they would go do that. 169 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 4: And I got there and there was no one who 170 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 4: wanted to go coast to coast NonStop illegally. Everybody wanted 171 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 4: to go to a party, however, and everybody interchangeably called 172 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 4: it cannonballing, and so that is really how I got 173 00:09:59,080 --> 00:09:59,480 Speaker 4: into this. 174 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 2: So tell us about your your first attempt and how 175 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 2: you set it up because it must take a lot 176 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:10,560 Speaker 2: of planning. I imagine you're going to want to either 177 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 2: have extra gas tanks or like four radar detectors or 178 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:17,600 Speaker 2: a spotter or I don't know, but like what do 179 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:22,560 Speaker 2: you do to because you you achieved the fastest crossing 180 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:24,199 Speaker 2: right what from New York to LA. 181 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 4: So, yeah, we did set the record in two thousand 182 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 4: and six, and we were the first team to successfully 183 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 4: break it in I think twenty five or twenty six years. 184 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 4: What car in a BMW five two thousand and thirty 185 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 4: nine five Our record has been broken anytime since. 186 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:46,840 Speaker 1: And you did it in about thirty four thirty four hours. 187 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:51,600 Speaker 4: Thirty one thirty one. So the record in nineteen eighty 188 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:54,680 Speaker 4: three in the last US Express unsanctioned full on race 189 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:57,719 Speaker 4: was thirty two hours of seven minutes. We broke it 190 00:10:57,760 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 4: by a little bit over an hour the way we did, 191 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 4: and it was really made possible by going on the 192 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 4: Gumball three thousand rally and other rallies is one called 193 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 4: the bull Run was one I did so many of 194 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 4: them I forget, and on those rallies, you're in a 195 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:15,719 Speaker 4: stickered car and you're in a group of fifty to 196 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:19,680 Speaker 4: one hundred other cars going city to city with the 197 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 4: police generally waiting for you, and so on those events 198 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:25,840 Speaker 4: from two thousand and three to two thousand and five, 199 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:30,720 Speaker 4: I figured out what hardware you needed and what equipment 200 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 4: was necessary, and so everyone knows you need a radar detector. 201 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:38,840 Speaker 4: And at that time, laser jammers were just coming into 202 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:42,960 Speaker 4: use and laser was becoming more popular among police. But 203 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:46,679 Speaker 4: what we had done is we'd studied the teams from 204 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 4: nineteen eighty three and one of them had a spotter 205 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 4: plane which flew overhead in the daytime stretch. So, using 206 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 4: everything I knew from tech startup world, we put in 207 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 4: the car triple redundant sell communications, one phone from every 208 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 4: network at the time. I forget how many GPS we had. 209 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:09,960 Speaker 4: There were probably four GPS displays in the vehicle, one 210 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 4: for navigation, two for speed, two more in the back. 211 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:15,839 Speaker 4: Every one of them had their own antenta on the roof. 212 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 4: Because of the spotter plane, we put a partially a 213 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:21,839 Speaker 4: semi reflective white stripe pair on the roof of the 214 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:24,440 Speaker 4: plane could see us in low light conditions, rear brake 215 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 4: light cutoff switches, rear running light cutoff switches, thermal cameras 216 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:30,679 Speaker 4: who could drive it out with no headlights, a fourteen 217 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:35,840 Speaker 4: gallon fuel tank, redundant replacement parts for anything we could 218 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:38,560 Speaker 4: fix on the move, and some things quickly on the ground, 219 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 4: and so everything that had ever been done historically ever 220 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:46,640 Speaker 4: had been installed in that car at that time, and 221 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:50,560 Speaker 4: we tested all of it except the plane on the 222 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:54,080 Speaker 4: Gumball three thousand. The most important lesson from the Gumball 223 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 4: was that if you have a highly stickered car in 224 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:01,840 Speaker 4: a group of stickered cars, you're running a lottery because 225 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 4: it's basically how many police cars have been vectored to 226 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 4: a group of speeding vehicles. And if you are early 227 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:10,840 Speaker 4: in the speeding pack, you will get away, take the 228 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 4: stickers off. With all the skills you learned, it becomes 229 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 4: actually pretty easy to speed and not get caught. The 230 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:19,240 Speaker 4: hard part is there's no cars running scrimmage for you, 231 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:22,520 Speaker 4: so you've got to get really tactical. I know it 232 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 4: sounds crazy about safety, and the hardest part is not 233 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:29,959 Speaker 4: the car. It's not the driving, it's the research into 234 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:33,959 Speaker 4: the road conditions, and volume of traffic on the road, 235 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 4: so you can pick a date for maximum safety and 236 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:41,599 Speaker 4: risk mitigation. And that was a lot of trial, expensive 237 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 4: and time consuming trial and error because the best driver 238 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 4: in the world, in the best car or the best 239 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 4: equipment cannot be safe rolling through packs of pedestrians and traffic. 240 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 4: It's not possible. 241 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 1: So you did your run around Christmas time. 242 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:56,120 Speaker 3: Oh that's awesome, right, yeah. 243 00:13:56,400 --> 00:14:00,840 Speaker 1: We're kind of we're speechless. You've run us speechless. But 244 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:03,839 Speaker 1: this was around Christmas, right if I remember right. 245 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:09,040 Speaker 4: So well, we broke the record on October seventh, eighth 246 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 4: ninth of two thousand and six, which is very specifically 247 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 4: chosen Columbus Day weekend because you don't you can't drag 248 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 4: go in the summer because road traffic is three to 249 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 4: four x higher than other times a year, and police 250 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 4: patrols are three x higher any other time of year, 251 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 4: so it won't work. You need a holiday weekend, preferably 252 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 4: that is a low traffic weekend, and ideally tornadoes because 253 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 4: most law enforcement and first responders are diverted to deal 254 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 4: with tornado issues. So that meant Columbus Day was the 255 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 4: perfect weekend, and so we had mapped it out, and 256 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 4: I looked at like twenty years of data from the 257 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 4: Federal Dot on traffic and weather determined that was it. 258 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 4: And it turned out that was the right day. However, Hannah, 259 00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 4: you are correct, Christmas Day would be if it was 260 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 4: not snowing and there was minimal to no ice, maybe 261 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 4: the best day of the year. 262 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 1: Interesting. 263 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:10,560 Speaker 4: We considered it. We considered it. 264 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 1: So physically, how did you prepare? What types of food, 265 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 1: food and beverages and stimulation did you plan for yourself 266 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 1: along with and how many people. 267 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 3: Were how many people were in the car? 268 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 4: Three people in the car My co driver Dave Maher, 269 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 4: who did slightly more driving than I did, and it 270 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:32,040 Speaker 4: is a better driver than I am. He was an 271 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 4: essential choice. And in the back we had Corey Wells, 272 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:38,200 Speaker 4: who's a documentary filmmaker who was shooting at the documentary 273 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 4: which we made about the run, which came out a 274 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 4: few years later called APEX The Secret Race across America. 275 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 4: And she was really essential because she had been making 276 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 4: a documentary about the US Express for years and had 277 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 4: not yet completed it when we met, and so the 278 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 4: availability of the veteran drivers from that time and her 279 00:15:56,440 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 4: knowledge was invaluable. I was physically better shape than than 280 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:06,080 Speaker 4: I am now. I smoked at the time, and I 281 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 4: was allowed to smoke a cigarette anytime we saw a 282 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 4: police car. Nice and which ended up being three times 283 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 4: the whole way, But that was it, because you cannot 284 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 4: stop to go to the bathroom. You can only go 285 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 4: when you stop for gas, which is and a maximum 286 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 4: five minute stop. One person's got to stay at the car, 287 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:31,480 Speaker 4: so it means one person go in, so you really can't. 288 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 4: There are no luxuries or convenience, so minimal flavor. I 289 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:41,760 Speaker 4: tested diapers in advance, very uncomfortable, and I have also 290 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 4: used tubes in the past on other events, but I 291 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 4: learned that if you have a tube running down through 292 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:54,240 Speaker 4: the bottom of the car, it leaks in both directions 293 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 4: or there comes out oh no, yeah, and it's very awkward. 294 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 4: And so we settled on something that was the least 295 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:06,360 Speaker 4: bad of all bad choices, a device called a portagon 296 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 4: or something. Oh it's basically it's a thing that could 297 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:12,880 Speaker 4: be used by a man or a woman. 298 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 1: Or a woman. I've seen for a woman that. 299 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:19,159 Speaker 4: You don't want to use. And we each tried it 300 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:21,960 Speaker 4: and decided we would bring them and tried not to 301 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 4: use them and we did not use them. It was 302 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:27,240 Speaker 4: you have to be good friends. And even the then 303 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:28,639 Speaker 4: it's not the best. 304 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 2: How did you I can't believe you only saw three 305 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:35,280 Speaker 2: cops going from New York to la if I have 306 00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 2: the direction correct? And did you have any legal problems? 307 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:43,360 Speaker 2: Like afterwards because you publicized it, So did any cops 308 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:46,159 Speaker 2: say like, well, we know you broke the speed lim 309 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 2: in our state, so. 310 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 1: We're going to arrest you, like retroactive. 311 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:49,920 Speaker 3: Yeah. 312 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 4: So, because no one had done this successfully for you know, 313 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 4: twenty five year or twenty seven years prior, I had 314 00:17:56,760 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 4: no roadmap and was absolutely terrified of the consequences the 315 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 4: you know, Brockiates wrote a book publish in two thousand 316 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:06,720 Speaker 4: and two called Cannonball It which he states the end 317 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 4: that no car would ever cross the United States in 318 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:13,720 Speaker 4: less than thirty eight hours ever, and the canniball record 319 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:15,600 Speaker 4: at that when he did the last ran, the race 320 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 4: was like thirty two point fifty one I think in 321 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 4: the last Cannibal and then thirty two to seven the 322 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:23,159 Speaker 4: last Express and so he here he is, you know, 323 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:25,679 Speaker 4: twenty years later, saying can't be done. Thirty eight is 324 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 4: the floor. And so I called my lawyer, I've got 325 00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:32,800 Speaker 4: a question, and he's like, that'll be an expensive answer. 326 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 4: So he started digging around, looking into I had a 327 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:37,879 Speaker 4: book deal at the time for the record we not 328 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 4: yet set, and so he said, well, in worst case scenario, 329 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:45,399 Speaker 4: you could maybe get hit under Rico statutes because you're 330 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:49,120 Speaker 4: committing fel any crimes across state lines, all of them, 331 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:52,199 Speaker 4: you could, and you're profiting from it, so maybe an 332 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:55,640 Speaker 4: angry prosecutor could come. And of course there's the felony 333 00:18:55,680 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 4: spinning charges themselves. So I had him prepare a document. 334 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:04,080 Speaker 4: It's a wonderful spreadsheet. I should send you, Hannah, color 335 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:09,200 Speaker 4: coded document with the state by state the severity color 336 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:13,800 Speaker 4: coded of the likely charges want to receive based on speed. 337 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:17,960 Speaker 4: Some states have an arbitrary felony charge trigger based on speed. 338 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:22,400 Speaker 4: My book tour I knew would go to some states 339 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:25,400 Speaker 4: and not others, so I gave the states I knew 340 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:27,680 Speaker 4: I would not ever want to go to to Dave 341 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:31,080 Speaker 4: Maher to drive, so when I showed up a year 342 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 4: later or two years later, I wouldn't be charged because 343 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:36,399 Speaker 4: I wouldn't be going there. So Dave he's like, great, 344 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:42,560 Speaker 4: I'll take them. And I also learned that everyone's familiar 345 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:44,920 Speaker 4: with the idea of statue limitations, but they also think 346 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:47,480 Speaker 4: called a tolling law. So if you commit a crime 347 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:51,439 Speaker 4: and a state and you leave that state, the statue 348 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:54,720 Speaker 4: limitations clock is frozen until you set footnet state again. 349 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 4: So take Oklahoma. Yeah, so leaving the state does not 350 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:03,440 Speaker 4: protect you necessarily because if you don't let spend say 351 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:05,480 Speaker 4: the full twelve months in that state, you can go 352 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 4: back for a minute and they can just grab you 353 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:09,640 Speaker 4: if they want to. So my attorney advised me that 354 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 4: a very cranky prosecutor could just make it his mission 355 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:15,200 Speaker 4: to take down that Roy guy. And I need to 356 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 4: be very careful about this. So we went and did it, 357 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:24,800 Speaker 4: and we were successful. However, before we succeeded, we did 358 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:27,879 Speaker 4: have a failed drive at it was meant to be 359 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 4: the real drive in April two thousand and six, and 360 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:36,159 Speaker 4: we broke down halfway in Oklahoma City. And this is 361 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 4: a story I rarely tell. My teammates left the state 362 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 4: and I had the being able to be picked up 363 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 4: and taken to the local dealership, and then I went 364 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 4: to the airport and I told the dealership hold the car, 365 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:51,479 Speaker 4: I'll call you in like six hours. So at the airport. 366 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 4: I called my girlfriend, my mother, my attorney and told 367 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:58,560 Speaker 4: them what happened. And then I flew to uh forget 368 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:02,879 Speaker 4: tell some other city to stop over. And it was 369 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:08,600 Speaker 4: a message from the dealership that the state police, Oklahoma 370 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:12,280 Speaker 4: State Police were already there looking for me. Hours later. Yeah, 371 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:18,240 Speaker 4: And so it turned out that behind me in line 372 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 4: at the Oaklahoma City airport was the Lieutenant Governor of Oklahoma, 373 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 4: and he had overheard my entire conversation with my lawyer 374 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:28,879 Speaker 4: where I said, now, BMW, we escaped. They didn't catch us, 375 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:33,320 Speaker 4: They can't catch us, and he they deployed the entire 376 00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:35,359 Speaker 4: state police academy to go find the guy in the 377 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:38,600 Speaker 4: blue BMW. They thought I was a drug dealer whose 378 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:42,000 Speaker 4: car broke it down, and a judge ordered the vehicle 379 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 4: held for several days as they figured out what was 380 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 4: going on. And on, like the second day the car 381 00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 4: was being held at BMW, an off duty district attorney 382 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:55,359 Speaker 4: who had no idea about the investigation, happened to be 383 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:59,359 Speaker 4: shopping for cars and spotted my blue BMW, which he 384 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:03,399 Speaker 4: recognized from Gumball three thousand videos, and got in the 385 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 4: car and turned on the police lights and started playing 386 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:09,399 Speaker 4: with the systems, and as a result, I got my 387 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:12,439 Speaker 4: attorney to contact the court to declare evidence had been 388 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:15,679 Speaker 4: tampered with, get the car released returned to me, and 389 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:18,320 Speaker 4: six months later we went back and that attorney, that 390 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:21,840 Speaker 4: district attorney, years later became my friend and we're friends 391 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 4: to this day. And I'm also great friends with the 392 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 4: now retired Oklahoma state trooper led the investigation and to 393 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:35,359 Speaker 4: whom I sold my second BMW five stickred as a 394 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:36,160 Speaker 4: German police car. 395 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:38,880 Speaker 1: Can you go back to Oklahoma now? Are you banned 396 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:39,360 Speaker 1: from the city? 397 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:44,360 Speaker 4: Absolutely? No, No, I'm fully welcome because the da who 398 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:47,160 Speaker 4: was there, who found the car is his family's very 399 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:49,680 Speaker 4: close with I think the current governor. So I went 400 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:52,200 Speaker 4: back more than once and had dinner with a bunch 401 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:54,399 Speaker 4: of these officers and we had a lot of laughs. 402 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:56,679 Speaker 4: It pays to be nice to people. 403 00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, I was gonna say, yeah, your career is a 404 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:09,440 Speaker 1: natural charm. Does work to your advantage? 405 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:16,440 Speaker 3: How do you prove the run? Like, uh, do you. 406 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,360 Speaker 2: Sort of take a picture of yourself with the newspaper 407 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:22,199 Speaker 2: in New York and then the next day's edition in 408 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:23,360 Speaker 2: LA or what do you do? 409 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 4: So there was no playbook for this and the people 410 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 4: who had the record previously were accused of cheating, And 411 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 4: so I contacted Ernst and Young and Deloyde and every 412 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:35,880 Speaker 4: company I could think of, asking if they would send 413 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 4: witnesses and if I could pay. I contacted Guinness. Everybody 414 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:45,359 Speaker 4: all declined because it's illegal. So I got Jelopnik to 415 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,640 Speaker 4: send Mike Spinelli, who was the editor chief at the time, 416 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,240 Speaker 4: to the New York Start and Davy Johnson, who was 417 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:54,920 Speaker 4: one of the famous writers there rest Bless your Heart, 418 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 4: Davy recipes. He went to the finish line, and then 419 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 4: we had a guy. We had a turnalist from the 420 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:06,360 Speaker 4: New York Times review all the evidence. We recorded all 421 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,119 Speaker 4: of the GPS devices, and then we had Charles Graeber 422 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,680 Speaker 4: from Wired magazine go through the evidence. And we also 423 00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:15,920 Speaker 4: had uninterrupted video off of two cameras on front and 424 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:19,160 Speaker 4: rear bumpers, as well as video recorded from the spot 425 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 4: er plant. And then we had receipts from the tolls, 426 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:27,680 Speaker 4: receipts from the gas. So by our standard, we had 427 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:33,280 Speaker 4: multiple corroborating, overlapping, redundant witnesses and evidence, and more evidence 428 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:36,159 Speaker 4: that had ever been compiled to any prior team. But 429 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:37,720 Speaker 4: I do want to have a shout out right now 430 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:40,439 Speaker 4: to the guy who broke my record, Ed Bullion, who 431 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,359 Speaker 4: broke it seven years later, because I was so convinced 432 00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 4: that we had raised the bar and evidence on evidence 433 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 4: that anyone who came after us would have to meet 434 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:50,679 Speaker 4: or surpass it. And years later, when I heard that 435 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:53,359 Speaker 4: this record had been broken, I didn't give it the 436 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,679 Speaker 4: credence that it deserved. Now, of course everybody right now, 437 00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:59,600 Speaker 4: everyone recognizes that the record was broken. But I didn't 438 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:03,400 Speaker 4: jump all over it to recognize it. And I feel 439 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:06,200 Speaker 4: bad about that because they had something we didn't have, 440 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:10,320 Speaker 4: which is they had high quality real time vehicle tracking, 441 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:13,199 Speaker 4: and every vehicle's gone after us just puts in what 442 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:15,360 Speaker 4: you see in every truck now, which is a real 443 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:19,200 Speaker 4: time transponder that you can watch progress on a password 444 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,320 Speaker 4: protected site, which is what goes on today. Anytime someone 445 00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:23,560 Speaker 4: wants to set a record. 446 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:25,960 Speaker 1: Well, seven years is a really long time in terms 447 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 1: of technology advances. I mean seven years is a long time. 448 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 2: Well also it is he beat your record in a 449 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:36,280 Speaker 2: gas powered car, but you have set another record in 450 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:37,880 Speaker 2: an electric car, right. 451 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:43,760 Speaker 4: Yes, So the current gas record actually even Ed's record, 452 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:46,119 Speaker 4: which is incredible. Twenty at fifty was has been beaten 453 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:50,720 Speaker 4: multiple times now. But you know, people always ask me 454 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,000 Speaker 4: why don't go out and set gas canniball records anymore? 455 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:56,320 Speaker 4: And the answer is, I'm not remotely interested in them 456 00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:02,320 Speaker 4: because the canniball originally in teen fifteen Irwin Baker was 457 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:07,760 Speaker 4: always intended to be a proof of onset for new technology. 458 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 4: So in twenty fourteen, and I've been watching the Tesla 459 00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:15,360 Speaker 4: story kind of evolve, and I wasn't totally convinced that 460 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:19,639 Speaker 4: the cars were great. In twenty fourteen, when Tesla released 461 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 4: autopilot as a software update to all their cars, I 462 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,960 Speaker 4: immediately was like, I need to do this because whoever 463 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,040 Speaker 4: is going to inherit the mantle of Erwin Baker has 464 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:36,119 Speaker 4: got to go and test new technologies. It's going to electric, hydrogen, hybrid, autonomy, 465 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:38,080 Speaker 4: whatever it is. Someone's got to do that. No one 466 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,880 Speaker 4: was doing it, and so that is what God means 467 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 4: the EV records. So in late twenty fourteen went across 468 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:51,320 Speaker 4: and broke the EV record and also set the first 469 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 4: driving assistance record using Tesla Autopilot, which I think we 470 00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:58,679 Speaker 4: did it like ninety eight percent engaged across country and 471 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 4: then broke it two more time in Tesla's and subsequent years, 472 00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 4: and that was far more intellectually challenging than the gas 473 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:12,600 Speaker 4: records because what is known, like what one has to 474 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,840 Speaker 4: know and learn to set a gas record, is known. 475 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 4: There is nothing more to be learned except weather forecasting 476 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:27,959 Speaker 4: and potentially incremental improvements entire technology, because weather and and 477 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,760 Speaker 4: your tires ability to survive road surfaces at high speed 478 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:33,280 Speaker 4: are the only limiting factors. Is setting a record in 479 00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:37,600 Speaker 4: a gas car whereas an electric vehicle, It's like nineteen fifteen. Again. 480 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:40,399 Speaker 4: In nineteen fifteen, there were no gas stations. You have 481 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:44,440 Speaker 4: to buy gas at a hardware store pharmacy, and over 482 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:49,320 Speaker 4: the years of the teens and twenties, gas station networks 483 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:51,880 Speaker 4: began to get built out, but they still weren't consistent. 484 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:55,840 Speaker 4: Pump speeds were different, pumps didn't always work. It's exactly 485 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:59,320 Speaker 4: like electric vehicles today. So to anyone who thinks that 486 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:03,159 Speaker 4: EV's not inevitable, ask yourself what is the rate of 487 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,560 Speaker 4: improvement of EV's today in their ability to get cross 488 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:08,879 Speaker 4: country quickly versus one hundred years ago? And the answer 489 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:12,239 Speaker 4: is it's the same, if not slightly better than it 490 00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:16,720 Speaker 4: was at the dawn of internal combustion, so EV's are inevitible. 491 00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:19,440 Speaker 4: And in fact, I would encourage anyone, any car company 492 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:22,800 Speaker 4: that wants to save billions go drive cross country or 493 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:26,400 Speaker 4: hire me to go a cross country for you, because 494 00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 4: every problem that's occurred in the EV sector, software, hardware, reliability, 495 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:34,640 Speaker 4: we saw this five six years ago. 496 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:37,160 Speaker 3: By the way, I want to I want to keep. 497 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 2: I want to keep on the EVAH train right now. 498 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:45,000 Speaker 2: But before we get too far away from your cannonball 499 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:49,400 Speaker 2: run in Gas, I just am curious, how much of 500 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:53,960 Speaker 2: the time were you breaking the speed limit and how fast. 501 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 3: Were you going, like average and top speed? And was 502 00:28:58,080 --> 00:28:58,480 Speaker 3: it fun? 503 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:04,280 Speaker 4: It's it's work. It's not fun at all. Every moment 504 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,200 Speaker 4: talking about it after is fun, but doing it is work. 505 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:09,040 Speaker 4: And the reason so a few people do it is 506 00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 4: because it is work. Everybody in the cannibal community is 507 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,280 Speaker 4: bonded by something that people outside just don't understand. You 508 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:19,120 Speaker 4: have to do some math, a lot of math, and 509 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:21,800 Speaker 4: be a good driver and be really committed. And most 510 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 4: people who call themselves car enthusiasts are not actually car 511 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:28,640 Speaker 4: enthusiasts at all. They're not They are as much enthusiasts 512 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 4: of ours as someone who buys a really beautiful dress 513 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 4: and wears it once and gives it back. Just you 514 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:36,760 Speaker 4: have to eat. This is a task. You can't go 515 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 4: mountaineering in couture. You have to bring the gear the day. Yeah. So, 516 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,640 Speaker 4: but everything has its place. And so we I mean 517 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,040 Speaker 4: we were speeding. I'm guessing ninety nine point nine percent 518 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:52,240 Speaker 4: of the time. The speed limit was inwhere from fifty 519 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 4: five to seventy five, and we're our Our driving average 520 00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:01,960 Speaker 4: was ninety two point seven and our average including stop 521 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,719 Speaker 4: time was ninety point four. So we're stopped for approximately 522 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,320 Speaker 4: thirty thirty one minutes just to refuel, and then you're 523 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 4: just as fast as you can. Our toss speed was 524 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:11,800 Speaker 4: one sixty, but most of the time we're in the 525 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 4: one twenty range, and we would have been an hour faster, 526 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:18,040 Speaker 4: except that I am a more cautious driver than my 527 00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:20,600 Speaker 4: co driver Dave, who really was flat out most of 528 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:22,040 Speaker 4: the way, and I slowed down. 529 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:25,640 Speaker 1: What happened to the car that you set the record in? 530 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:26,440 Speaker 1: Do you still have it? 531 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,600 Speaker 4: I still have it. It's in semi storage in New York. 532 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 4: It's being restored to two thousand and six Cannibal record 533 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:38,000 Speaker 4: setting and condition. As I consider selling it, so it's 534 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:42,920 Speaker 4: period correct everything period correct six. I any time I 535 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,760 Speaker 4: took it out in the years subsequent to going public, 536 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 4: it would be recognized, generally by a police officer, and 537 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:51,560 Speaker 4: I'd get pulled over and they'd want to talk about it. 538 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:57,600 Speaker 4: Never got in trouble subsequently, but came close when I 539 00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:01,840 Speaker 4: was pulled over for speeding in it in Upstate New 540 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:05,560 Speaker 4: York by an officer who recognized me in the car 541 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:10,640 Speaker 4: and stated that he gave a copy of my book. 542 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,320 Speaker 4: I tell all of this to every student in radar 543 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:16,840 Speaker 4: class at the New York State Police Academy, and he 544 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:18,680 Speaker 4: couldn't wait to see me in court to defense where 545 00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:22,280 Speaker 4: I would try to defend myself. So that story is. 546 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:25,000 Speaker 1: To show, okay, well you're here with us. 547 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:28,560 Speaker 4: Now. That story is too long for this show, but 548 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:31,360 Speaker 4: I tell the extended version of it on ed Bullian's 549 00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:35,080 Speaker 4: Vinwiki car channel. It's called the evidence story, and it's 550 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:40,080 Speaker 4: it's hard to believe. So today I drive like a baby, 551 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:41,240 Speaker 4: an absolute baby. 552 00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:45,840 Speaker 1: So going back to Tesla, though, did Tesla help you 553 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:48,520 Speaker 1: at all when you were setting records in their cars? 554 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:51,400 Speaker 1: Did they assist you do support in any way in 555 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:53,320 Speaker 1: the spirit of r and. 556 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,120 Speaker 3: D did Elon call you and say yes, dude, okay? 557 00:31:56,640 --> 00:32:01,320 Speaker 4: Elon never called me. However, I I had a good 558 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:05,080 Speaker 4: relationship with Tesla's Tom's team which existed at the time, 559 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:11,000 Speaker 4: and there were some terrific people there. And you remember 560 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,120 Speaker 4: that there was a woman that kill Silprizio. Keiley was 561 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:19,959 Speaker 4: very supportive and helped me learn a lot about Tesla 562 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:22,440 Speaker 4: to autopilot and charging and put me in touch with 563 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,000 Speaker 4: senior people still. Stirling Anderson was the head of Autopilot 564 00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:26,960 Speaker 4: at the time. She connected me with him, and so 565 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:29,840 Speaker 4: I learned a lot and they let's just say that 566 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:33,720 Speaker 4: they lent me the first let's see, the second record 567 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:38,640 Speaker 4: I set was set in a Tesla press car. They 568 00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:41,280 Speaker 4: did not have advanced notice of what we were doing. 569 00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:43,720 Speaker 4: They did know that we would pick it up in 570 00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,400 Speaker 4: New York and drop it in La. They didn't ask 571 00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:51,600 Speaker 4: and I didn't tell them, uh, And I did receive 572 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:55,880 Speaker 4: many likes and retweets from very important people in Tesla 573 00:32:56,520 --> 00:33:01,240 Speaker 4: at the time. That's no longer the case as in 574 00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:04,040 Speaker 4: the years since. I've lobbed some criticism at Tesla for 575 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:07,000 Speaker 4: some safety issues around autopilot. But there was a time 576 00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:10,960 Speaker 4: when they gave let's just say tacit indirect approve. 577 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,240 Speaker 1: That is wild because I freak out about dog hair 578 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:17,160 Speaker 1: and press cars. So this is putting a whole new 579 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:20,840 Speaker 1: perspective on what we do what we do with press cars. 580 00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:23,240 Speaker 4: If you consider the irony of it all is that 581 00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:26,160 Speaker 4: one hundred years ago, car companies would literally pay for 582 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:30,680 Speaker 4: people to set records in their cars. And today, I mean, 583 00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:33,520 Speaker 4: what is the dream headline for any EV maker today? 584 00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:37,520 Speaker 4: The dream headline and every car company making a TV 585 00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:42,760 Speaker 4: today is five days from having this headline is company 586 00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:46,440 Speaker 4: X beats Tesla. Because there's almost it's almost a possible 587 00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:49,640 Speaker 4: to get that headline in any category of performance or metric. 588 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:53,280 Speaker 4: Lucid could do it for efficiency, but no one can 589 00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:56,480 Speaker 4: do it with front page headlines setting time unless it's 590 00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:59,959 Speaker 4: done literally a canniball record is set, and they are 591 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,360 Speaker 4: of course, are all concerned about legal legal issues. So 592 00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:07,400 Speaker 4: what is really interesting about Tesla and EV's and charging 593 00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:12,200 Speaker 4: is that if a car company wanted to beat the 594 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:15,560 Speaker 4: EV record in it that was set by in a Tesla, 595 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:19,399 Speaker 4: the window when it could be done opens every year 596 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:23,000 Speaker 4: for a few months and then closes. The first generation 597 00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:26,480 Speaker 4: portion tychon technically well the range is shorter than the 598 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:31,040 Speaker 4: best the longest range Tesla. However, the battery technology and 599 00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:33,360 Speaker 4: some of the EA chargers that it could connect to 600 00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:36,960 Speaker 4: are better. So there was a window when a portchit 601 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:40,560 Speaker 4: Tychon could have broken the record. That window closed with 602 00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:43,440 Speaker 4: multiple software updates from Tesla and the improvement of the 603 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:48,200 Speaker 4: Tesla chargers. Lucid currently is probably the only ev that 604 00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:50,800 Speaker 4: could be used to break the Tesla record. The Lucid 605 00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:54,280 Speaker 4: longest range air battery pack five hundred and sixteen miles 606 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:56,680 Speaker 4: is twenty percent longer than a Tesla, but it would 607 00:34:56,719 --> 00:35:01,719 Speaker 4: require that the chargers have an uptime i'm equivalent to 608 00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:05,359 Speaker 4: the Tesla charging network, which they do not, and so 609 00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:10,360 Speaker 4: there is an arms race among evy manufacturers to enable 610 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:13,360 Speaker 4: a third party like myself to go do this. But 611 00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:16,600 Speaker 4: currently the record is basically sitting. I think it's forty 612 00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:18,799 Speaker 4: two hours in the Tesla and it will sit there 613 00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:22,920 Speaker 4: until the charging networks available to non Tesla companies achieve 614 00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:25,719 Speaker 4: a level of liability that Tesla has always had. 615 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:31,600 Speaker 1: What about an electric hypercar like a Nevara and yeah, 616 00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:35,319 Speaker 1: the Rimac Navara, And also is that a liability just 617 00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:38,920 Speaker 1: because it's so much flashier than something like a Lucid Sedan, 618 00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:40,360 Speaker 1: which blends in yeah. 619 00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:43,800 Speaker 4: The own, yeah it is. Any any sports car looking 620 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:46,600 Speaker 4: car is a liability. You have to have an innocuous 621 00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:49,719 Speaker 4: vehicle and it must be with the largest battery pack 622 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:54,320 Speaker 4: and the best efficiency combined with a network with uptime 623 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:57,400 Speaker 4: as equivalent to a gas station, or you're just not going. 624 00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:00,759 Speaker 1: So it's not about to all. 625 00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:04,920 Speaker 4: Really, it's pure math. So right now, the battery, the 626 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,839 Speaker 4: power density of electric batteries of any technology is less 627 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:12,880 Speaker 4: than that of petroleum. So until those lines cross, and 628 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:16,440 Speaker 4: they will cross, uh, you are at the mercy. You 629 00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:23,720 Speaker 4: are hostage to the inexorable, terrible devil's math of power 630 00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:26,640 Speaker 4: and efficiency. There's no way around it. I have tables, 631 00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:31,640 Speaker 4: like calculation tables that just about this. Every time an 632 00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:36,120 Speaker 4: EV manufacturer releases anything, I enter the car and the 633 00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:38,840 Speaker 4: table and to determine if it can be done. But 634 00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:42,040 Speaker 4: the choke point today is not the cars. It's the chargers. Uh, 635 00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:43,920 Speaker 4: it's the chargers, Alex. 636 00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:44,959 Speaker 3: I wonder about the. 637 00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:52,960 Speaker 2: You obviously are a super enthusiast and you like interesting 638 00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:59,600 Speaker 2: and uh sort of niche cars, the Morgan three wheel 639 00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:02,200 Speaker 2: are being one of them. But also you like, you know, 640 00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:03,040 Speaker 2: everybody likes. 641 00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:03,520 Speaker 3: An M five. 642 00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:08,680 Speaker 2: Can you be passionate about an EV like like the 643 00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:10,359 Speaker 2: driving experience? 644 00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:13,080 Speaker 3: Do you enjoy it? 645 00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:14,279 Speaker 1: So? 646 00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:16,520 Speaker 4: Ideally drive a Tesla. It's my fourth I love it. 647 00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:20,200 Speaker 4: So evi's have gotten a bad rap in terms of 648 00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:23,880 Speaker 4: driving enthusiasts because we have not yet really seen an 649 00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:29,120 Speaker 4: EV with soul that is productized in the way that 650 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:31,200 Speaker 4: a cor enthusiasts want it to be. So let me 651 00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:34,799 Speaker 4: just unpack that. So there are Tesli Model three performances 652 00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:39,480 Speaker 4: like on paper like the perfect car. Why do car 653 00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:43,560 Speaker 4: enthusiasts not like it? Well, no sound, so I would argue, yes, 654 00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:50,400 Speaker 4: lack of sound is a thing because we equate. Analog 655 00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:55,640 Speaker 4: cars are not great just because they're analog. They matter 656 00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:57,719 Speaker 4: to us that we connect with them. Because we are analog. 657 00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:01,120 Speaker 4: Our heart beats, we can hear it. We run faster, 658 00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:04,280 Speaker 4: our heart beats faster, we get scared, heart beats faster, 659 00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:06,560 Speaker 4: We can feel the blood pulsing in our veins. So 660 00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:09,560 Speaker 4: we are connected as our own bodies with exert Hannah 661 00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:12,320 Speaker 4: used to be a runner. You know this, Yeah, I 662 00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:17,239 Speaker 4: mean athletes understand that people who understand exertion and physicality 663 00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:20,239 Speaker 4: understand cars. In a way different from others, And so 664 00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:26,240 Speaker 4: a vehicle that when we change gears, it is analogous 665 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:29,560 Speaker 4: to the psychological decision to I will now know that 666 00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:32,520 Speaker 4: the final sprint in a marathon, like I'm changing gears 667 00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:35,120 Speaker 4: now you do in a car. It's the same decision, 668 00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:37,480 Speaker 4: and the noise changes in the same way. The noise 669 00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:40,680 Speaker 4: changes in our heads and when our heart rates that 670 00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:44,759 Speaker 4: much faster. So an EV that lacks that doesn't have 671 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:47,799 Speaker 4: a parallel set of sounds and feelings to what we 672 00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:50,200 Speaker 4: feel inside ourselves, because that's what we do in a 673 00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:53,360 Speaker 4: car too. When we get scared and excited, we react, 674 00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:58,720 Speaker 4: and EV lacks that bridge connecting the driver, the organic 675 00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:03,640 Speaker 4: human analog driver, to what the vehicle does. Now, the 676 00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:08,040 Speaker 4: corrollary to that is that an EV, because the power 677 00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:11,880 Speaker 4: it comes at is linear and the noise floor is 678 00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:16,000 Speaker 4: lower in a way, connects us much more deeply than 679 00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:21,200 Speaker 4: any analog vehicle to the actual act of driving, because 680 00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:25,000 Speaker 4: the outputs of driving fast are quicker, less time, and 681 00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:28,200 Speaker 4: an EV will do those things that analog cars can't do. 682 00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:33,279 Speaker 4: And so for someone to drive an EV faster better 683 00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:35,719 Speaker 4: than they do an analog vehicle, they have to be 684 00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:39,080 Speaker 4: willing to give up that bridge but intellectually connect with 685 00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:41,239 Speaker 4: a vehicle that will do more of what they want 686 00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:44,799 Speaker 4: better than any ice vehicle. And the community does not 687 00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:48,560 Speaker 4: really recognize that that what few professional drivers have raised 688 00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:52,680 Speaker 4: in formulae. They get it, but everyone else doesn't get it. 689 00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:56,000 Speaker 4: And I think that the enthusiast community will have to 690 00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:58,000 Speaker 4: age into it, and then the next generation of kids 691 00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:00,200 Speaker 4: after that will just take it for granted. But the 692 00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:05,239 Speaker 4: other half of this is something that I'm very disappointed 693 00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:10,440 Speaker 4: to see, which is that virtually every car company in 694 00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:13,920 Speaker 4: the planet working on EV's and there's a few exceptions. 695 00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:19,840 Speaker 4: Rimok Wull be an exception. Everyone else is shoehorning electric 696 00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:24,799 Speaker 4: power trains into internal combustion thinking, and they've made it 697 00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,839 Speaker 4: with this concept of the software defined vehicle. And their 698 00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:30,840 Speaker 4: notion is, oh, well, we'll offer subscription services with these evs. 699 00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:34,120 Speaker 4: People will love it just like a phone. That's just 700 00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:38,640 Speaker 4: not true. The only thing we want an EV to 701 00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:41,680 Speaker 4: do is be cheaper and more reliable than an ice car. 702 00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:44,880 Speaker 4: Than that, we most people just don't care. The missing piece, 703 00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:51,200 Speaker 4: the piece that will connect with enthusiasts, is there's only 704 00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:56,600 Speaker 4: one company thinking about this really well, it's Hyundai. So 705 00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:00,480 Speaker 4: Hyundai's new Ionic five n the racing of the I 706 00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:05,160 Speaker 4: five has fake engine sounds. Many companies have done this, 707 00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:07,719 Speaker 4: but most of them are terrible. But Hyundai's did it 708 00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:11,840 Speaker 4: with a purpose. They offer not just fake engine sounds, 709 00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:18,680 Speaker 4: but a fake synthetic gearbox paddle gearbox with synthetic gears 710 00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:21,120 Speaker 4: that mimic actual driving gears. You can redline the car. 711 00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:27,600 Speaker 4: So now the car sounds and feels closer to an 712 00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:30,960 Speaker 4: ice vehicle, and you have all the benefits of learning 713 00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:33,200 Speaker 4: how an ice vehicle drives, and other downside is potentially 714 00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:35,360 Speaker 4: damaging it. So you actually have a vehicle which you 715 00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:39,080 Speaker 4: could learn to drive an ice vehicle better. And this 716 00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:41,640 Speaker 4: and this is tip of the iceberg because ultimately, and 717 00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:45,200 Speaker 4: I wrote about this ten years ago, every legacy car 718 00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:48,120 Speaker 4: maker that has a brand or a model whose brand 719 00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:50,960 Speaker 4: is more powerful than the parent brand. As an example, 720 00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:55,680 Speaker 4: the Corvette is worth more than GM, are worth more 721 00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:58,560 Speaker 4: than four now nine to eleven is probably worth more 722 00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:01,239 Speaker 4: than Portia. Every company but he has one model like 723 00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:05,000 Speaker 4: this Jeep is worth more than Stilantis. So each of 724 00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:08,840 Speaker 4: these companies has a fifteen hundred year library of sound 725 00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:11,920 Speaker 4: and feel and enthusiasts who want that sound and feel. 726 00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:14,959 Speaker 4: And in the future, because no one those cars aren't 727 00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:18,040 Speaker 4: made anymore, people will want that sound and feel. What 728 00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:21,200 Speaker 4: is the future of software defined vehicles? The only future 729 00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:24,160 Speaker 4: is one where you can buy a future nine to eleven. 730 00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:27,120 Speaker 4: It's a skateboard that looks like a future nine to eleven, 731 00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:32,960 Speaker 4: but on board you can subscribe to the sound, feel, 732 00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:37,279 Speaker 4: and physics of every nine to eleven ever made. Pick your year, 733 00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:41,200 Speaker 4: portable download physics, model, sound, the field into the car, 734 00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:45,040 Speaker 4: and the car's chassis itself. They'll need some kind of 735 00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:49,919 Speaker 4: actual dynamic chassis that's very far more evolved than anything 736 00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:55,480 Speaker 4: we've seen yet to actually mimic oversteer, understeer and while 737 00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:58,680 Speaker 4: doing all these things inside a software defined boundary that 738 00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:02,640 Speaker 4: prevents a crash. The dream of everyone is to have 739 00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:05,319 Speaker 4: a sports car that does whatever you want that will 740 00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:08,560 Speaker 4: never hit anything. We're very far from this, but that 741 00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:11,800 Speaker 4: is the dream and we'll only get there Biosolvin vehicles 742 00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:16,120 Speaker 4: from oatims that have legacy. So because the new ones 743 00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:16,600 Speaker 4: have no. 744 00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:19,879 Speaker 1: Legacy, I'm so curious. You know, all day to day 745 00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:22,680 Speaker 1: and this week we've been looking at earnings and you know, 746 00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:27,560 Speaker 1: so many automakers have walked back their predictions and their 747 00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:33,440 Speaker 1: estimates for EV's and their production goals. How does that 748 00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:36,240 Speaker 1: strike you are EV's It sounds like you're saying EV's 749 00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:40,200 Speaker 1: are still the future, even though it seems like there's 750 00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:43,200 Speaker 1: quite a stall in demand. 751 00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:48,040 Speaker 4: So when I say evs are inevitable, you know, like 752 00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:51,360 Speaker 4: like fight Club. On a long enough timeline, every technology 753 00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:55,560 Speaker 4: success rates one hundred percent. However, it is very likely 754 00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:59,279 Speaker 4: that there will be in an interim phase where hybrids 755 00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:04,880 Speaker 4: supersede internal question and that that will play out over decades, 756 00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:09,840 Speaker 4: after which ev will supersede hybrid. However, the other issue, 757 00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:14,799 Speaker 4: which is a political one. China has most of the 758 00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:18,120 Speaker 4: rare earth's required to build evs, so they can churn 759 00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:20,040 Speaker 4: out EV's all day long that are better than anything 760 00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:22,399 Speaker 4: made in the West except maybe a Teslam and sell 761 00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:25,880 Speaker 4: them throughout the world. And they have already started. And 762 00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:28,040 Speaker 4: so if the United States wants to compete in these 763 00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:31,680 Speaker 4: markets expert vehicles anywhere in the world, they need start 764 00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:34,520 Speaker 4: trading out EV's, And so, in the absence of a 765 00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:37,520 Speaker 4: supply chain that could support you know, EV's sold at scale, 766 00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:43,640 Speaker 4: something else must be done. Hopefully some of the sources 767 00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:45,760 Speaker 4: of these rare earths, some buish in the United States 768 00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:48,319 Speaker 4: and some elsewhere. Well, many of them are locked up 769 00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:50,920 Speaker 4: for environmental reasons, some of them for political reasons. Will 770 00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:55,080 Speaker 4: be unlocked so American car makers can compete with Chinese 771 00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:58,840 Speaker 4: ev makers. And the second thing, which I'm very optimistic about, 772 00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:02,479 Speaker 4: is that you know, formerly of Tesla as a company 773 00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:06,040 Speaker 4: called Redwood Materials and they recycle batteries and they are 774 00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:10,000 Speaker 4: just starting to scale. So between the pressure to compete 775 00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:13,920 Speaker 4: with the Chinese ev companies and the potential of Redwood Materials, 776 00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:17,560 Speaker 4: I think they'll be both a stick and a carrot 777 00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:20,840 Speaker 4: to get American car companies on board with evds. But 778 00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:25,000 Speaker 4: hybrids are going to become a bigger thing first. And 779 00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:28,080 Speaker 4: you know, really, all this is it's tiresome because these 780 00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:30,400 Speaker 4: things should not be politicized. The market should have to decide, 781 00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:33,319 Speaker 4: and the market has already decided that if we don't 782 00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:36,359 Speaker 4: compete with China, our car companies are going to be 783 00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:38,520 Speaker 4: not going to go away, but they're not going to 784 00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:39,960 Speaker 4: be what they were. Alex. 785 00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:42,279 Speaker 2: We have to wrap it up because of time. But 786 00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:45,880 Speaker 2: I have to say, dude, you have blown my mind. Yeah, 787 00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:51,160 Speaker 2: I mean, I mean the the amount of insights that 788 00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:56,040 Speaker 2: you have. I just haven't heard anything like this from 789 00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:59,279 Speaker 2: any of the top car executives that we talk to, 790 00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:01,920 Speaker 2: and it all makes sense. 791 00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:05,920 Speaker 1: So where can people find your work now? I mean, 792 00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:09,000 Speaker 1: where to get more of you? Where should we send 793 00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:10,120 Speaker 1: our listeners? 794 00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:12,759 Speaker 4: Well, I have published very little in recent years, but 795 00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:15,720 Speaker 4: I have a podcast called the autono Cast with Kirsen 796 00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:19,720 Speaker 4: Corsek and Niemeyer, and I suggest following me on Twitter 797 00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:22,640 Speaker 4: or LinkedIn on Twitter. I'm Alex Wroy one forty four. 798 00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:25,120 Speaker 4: If I mean to say one last thing to everyone 799 00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:28,839 Speaker 4: who ever said that driving would go away and that 800 00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:32,279 Speaker 4: people are kids aren't getting driver's licenses, I worked at 801 00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:35,040 Speaker 4: a self driving car company for four years. All of 802 00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:39,120 Speaker 4: them are wrong, and human driving will never die, even 803 00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:43,319 Speaker 4: when autonomous vehicles are available at scale cheaply love it. 804 00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:44,319 Speaker 3: I hope you're right about that. 805 00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:45,560 Speaker 1: I'm on board with that for sure. 806 00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:48,120 Speaker 4: I know I am. I take way Mos every day, 807 00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:50,640 Speaker 4: but I'm always going to own my old Morgan, my 808 00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:52,680 Speaker 4: old Porsche. So thanks for having me. 809 00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:54,480 Speaker 1: Thank you, Alex than thank you so much. 810 00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:56,960 Speaker 2: I hope we can have you back because that was 811 00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:59,879 Speaker 2: really incredible. So I truly appreciate it. 812 00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:03,120 Speaker 3: And uh anytime, Thank you very much. 813 00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:07,400 Speaker 2: That's all we have time for unfortunately, Hannah, but we'll 814 00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:09,680 Speaker 2: see you back here, same time, same place, next week. 815 00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:12,480 Speaker 1: I'm Matt Miller and I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is 816 00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:13,000 Speaker 1: Bloomberg