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Speaker 1: welcome to hops tonight. You're at the volume. Happy Wednesday, everybody.

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Speaker 1: All of you guys are having a great week. Well.

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Speaker 1: The Cleveland Cavaliers have been the biggest surprise of this

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Speaker 1: NBA season so far, can continuing their undefeated streak with

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Speaker 1: a win in Chicago. Very fascinating game. Found themselves down

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Speaker 1: in the third quarter, but an all bench run without

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Speaker 1: a center with a zone look brings them back into

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Speaker 1: the game, and then the starters come in and finish

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Speaker 1: off the Bulls and keep the undefeated streak alive. I

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Speaker 1: can think of nobody better to do a deep dive

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Speaker 1: on the Cleveland Cavaliers. I'll admit I'm just a little

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Speaker 1: bit of a skeptic still, and I need Carter to

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Speaker 1: help me understand this team on a deeper level. Help

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Speaker 1: you guys understand this team on a deeper level and

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Speaker 1: explain to us how they are kicking everybody's ass.

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Speaker 2: First of all, Carter, how are you, man?

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Speaker 3: I'm doing good. You know, obviously this is I was

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Speaker 3: just telling your producer right before we started that we've

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Speaker 3: officially hit the part of the Cavs season where my normy,

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Speaker 3: non basketball obsessive friends are starting to text me and

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Speaker 3: we're like, dude, you seeing this like it's been you know, obviously.

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Speaker 3: You know, only eight teams in NBA history have started

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Speaker 3: twelve and zero. They have a very very good chance

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Speaker 3: with their upcoming schedule with a couple of rest advantage games,

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Speaker 3: They're only rest advantage games of the first half of

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Speaker 3: the season are happening this week to maybe extend that

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Speaker 3: up to thirteen fourteen fifteen, going into a matchup in

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Speaker 3: Boston that will be on national TV. So man, it's

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Speaker 3: the good times have been rolling. That's for damn sure.

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Speaker 1: How is it like cautious optimism or is it like

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Speaker 1: reckless optimism?

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Speaker 3: It's full more just celebration and fun. You know, I think,

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Speaker 3: you know, these last two, I think it's actually moving

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Speaker 3: into I think even maybe for the team, into like

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Speaker 3: the weight of the streak definitely is starting to get

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Speaker 3: real and like now, you know, you start seven and

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Speaker 3: zero and you're like maybe a little up against it.

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Speaker 3: In your eighth game you go whatever, you know, but

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Speaker 3: now it's like, we got to beat the Nets, man,

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Speaker 3: So it's actually I feel like splipping almost more to stress,

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Speaker 3: you know, Dari know, Darius Garland drops an F bomb

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Speaker 3: post game, like, man, that was a big effing win

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Speaker 3: against the Nets, because it's like, I think the guys

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Speaker 3: don't want to lose the streak either, you know, they're

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Speaker 3: having so much fun. So I think it's actually gone

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Speaker 3: from like like you know, cautious fun to unbridled celebration

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Speaker 3: to like almost moving towards angst because you just want

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Speaker 3: to keep it going. But but no, it's been I

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Speaker 3: mean talk about a ten out of ten start of

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Speaker 3: the year.

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Speaker 1: Well, I I the one time I personally rooted for

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Speaker 1: a team that was on a long win streak was

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Speaker 1: the twenty thirteen Miami Heat. And it's funny, I literally

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Speaker 1: was thinking about that this morning when I was watching

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Speaker 1: the game. Where it's like you find out pretty quickly

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Speaker 1: when you're on that kind of winning streak that like

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Speaker 1: everyone's a little feisty, and you're getting everyone's best bet

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Speaker 1: because they want to be their best shot, because they're

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Speaker 1: the team that wants to knock you off. And like

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Speaker 1: the NBA right now is in just even a more

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Speaker 1: substantial tougher place than it was back in twenty thirteen.

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Speaker 1: Like here's the thing, Like even in the Eastern Conference,

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Speaker 1: there are they're they the middle tier, the bottom tier

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Speaker 1: of the East is certainly not as strong as the West,

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Speaker 1: but there are still feisty teams in there.

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Speaker 2: Chicago's feisty. Brooklyn is feisty.

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Speaker 1: Brooklyn has got a lot of athleticism, They got a

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Speaker 1: lot of guys that can create their own shots. And

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Speaker 1: so it's like even on a night in a night

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Speaker 1: out basis, it's just tougher and like you could feel

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Speaker 1: that pressure last night. But one of the things that

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Speaker 1: I that I think has stood out to me the

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Speaker 1: most about this team, and I noticed it last night

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Speaker 1: when you just saw the energy that was coming off

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Speaker 1: of the bench, when Ty Jerome and George's Kniang and

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Speaker 1: Dean Wade and Karis Lavert and was a Merrill was

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Speaker 1: the fifth and that guy that lineup that went on

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Speaker 1: that run. There's an energy. There's this thing that happens

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Speaker 1: when a team really starts to rack up wins where

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Speaker 1: you can tell they get addicted to the feeling and

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Speaker 1: then it almost permeates throughout the whole roster with this

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Speaker 1: like unbelievable commitment to winning basketball because everyone's addicted to it,

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Speaker 1: and like that is when you really start to get

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Speaker 1: into that special territory. So, like, here's the thing I

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Speaker 1: think the biggest story of this team. Obviously, there's so

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Speaker 1: much more going on. There's a lot of different guys

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Speaker 1: that are playing better than they did last year. There's

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Speaker 1: a lot of like different dynamics at play. But to me,

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Speaker 1: the story of this team is Kenny Atkinson optimizing the

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Speaker 1: roster and getting another level of buying down the roster

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Speaker 1: in terms of just the attention to detail in a

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Speaker 1: possession by possession basis. So tell us about what the

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Speaker 1: experience has been going from JB. Bickerstaff to Kenny Atkinson.

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, I got a chance to have like

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Speaker 3: a twenty to thirty minute sit down with with Kenny

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Speaker 3: Atkinson at the start of the season, one on one, right,

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Speaker 3: you know, at the end of camp, and you know,

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Speaker 3: I was just so impressed by the guy. He was

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Speaker 3: really you could tell that he had the right attitude,

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Speaker 3: you know, in all of his kind of preseason availabilities.

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Speaker 3: The guy spent so much time talking about all the

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Speaker 3: stuff he'd learned from Steve Kerr, from Tylu and working

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Speaker 3: on those staffs, and like, you know, I even said

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Speaker 3: to him, was like, Kenny, like you're you're not like

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Speaker 3: a new coach. Like normally, when when a coach is

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Speaker 3: kind of moving into a new job, you know, gets

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Speaker 3: a head coaching gig and they're talking about all their

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Speaker 3: all their influences, all the people they've you know, been

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Speaker 3: stealing ideas and learning from. It's normally like the kind

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Speaker 3: of the thunder Keen that the new kid on the

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Speaker 3: block coming in, Like, dude, you've been in the league

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Speaker 3: like twenty twenty plus years at this point, Like what

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Speaker 3: about like, you know, this kind of learning mentality has

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Speaker 3: like why has that taken root? And like he just

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Speaker 3: clearly has kind of he got fired in Brooklyn, you know,

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Speaker 3: obviously a traumatic experience team and said like it was like,

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Speaker 3: you know, I had like a bit of a y me,

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Speaker 3: you know why I get Yeah, yeah, I mean I

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Speaker 3: would certainly argue it was unfair, But instead of going

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Speaker 3: into full victim mentality, he's like, what do I need

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Speaker 3: to get better at as a as a coach and

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Speaker 3: as a manager of personalities? And you know, going to

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Speaker 3: Tyler and Steve Kerr, Like I cannot imagine two more

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Speaker 3: different coaches on that spectrum, but two elite coaches in that,

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Speaker 3: you know, in that in that various specific capacity, and

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Speaker 3: like it just kind of feels like he came back

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Speaker 3: a better coach than he was in Brooklyn. And I

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Speaker 3: already thought he was a pretty darn good coach in Brooklyn,

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Speaker 3: you know. And in terms of the ways he's impacting

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Speaker 3: the team on the floor, they're running, man, they are

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Speaker 3: second in transition points per possession and seventh and transition frequency.

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Speaker 3: This is a team that we have been begging to

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Speaker 3: kind of speed up over the last couple of years,

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Speaker 3: you know, playing these two bigs. You know, this was

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Speaker 3: a team that over the past couple of years have

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Speaker 3: really let perfect be the enemy of good offensively. You

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Speaker 3: know a lot of possessions where it's just swing, swing,

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Speaker 3: and then they get a pretty good advantage and then

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Speaker 3: they drive and kick again, and then and all of

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Speaker 3: a sudden, there's three seconds left on the shot clock,

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Speaker 3: and every now and again you'll still see that slip through.

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Speaker 3: But this is just a much more decisive offense. Like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: they're running in transition, but they're also just getting shots

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Speaker 3: up faster in the half they're getting they are you know,

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Speaker 3: a lot more possessions where the SHOT's going up at

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Speaker 3: thirteen or fourteen because they just took the first pretty

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Speaker 3: good shot that was available to them. A stat that

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Speaker 3: I would have thought was a maybe a negative indicator

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Speaker 3: about how the offense was going, that I actually have

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Speaker 3: completely flipped on is I don't know if you know this, Jason.

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Speaker 3: They're twenty ninth in pastes per game right now. This

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Speaker 3: is a team that you know, and when you think

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Speaker 3: about a team going on this offensive explosion where they're

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Speaker 3: second in the league in offensive raid and going into

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Speaker 3: that Chicago game last night for cleaning the last you'd

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Speaker 3: be like, oh, man, you know, is it Are they

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Speaker 3: playing Iso ball? Is this Joe Johnson reincarnated? And it's

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Speaker 3: not that they are moving the ball, but they are

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Speaker 3: just playing so much more decisively. They're playing with so

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Speaker 3: much better tempo and they're getting they're capitalizing on the

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Speaker 3: mismatches that they're that their pace is creating for them,

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Speaker 3: even though they're twenty ninth in passes per game, sixth

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Speaker 3: in points created by assist per game. So you know,

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Speaker 3: there is there is there's passing just a pass, and

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Speaker 3: then there's passing with decisiveness. And I really think that

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Speaker 3: is the biggest change in terms of the tempo of

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Speaker 3: you know how they've been playing so far.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so let's zoom in on the transition piece for

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Speaker 1: just a second, and I do want to talk about

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Speaker 1: the half court piece, because you're right, it is. It

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Speaker 1: is a decisiveness. It's a quick action at the beginning

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Speaker 1: of a possession to get an initial advantage and then

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Speaker 1: it's like bang, bang, get a shot up. Everyone's making

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Speaker 1: Because again, I always think this is funny when teams

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Speaker 1: don't look to be aggressive on that initial advantage because

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Speaker 1: it's like, what did you run the action for? You

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Speaker 1: ran the action to get that advantage so that you

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Speaker 1: can get a shot up like instead of to your

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Speaker 1: to your point, letting perfect be the enemy of good,

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Speaker 1: and then you end up with something worse at the

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Speaker 1: end of the clock as you run into more of

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Speaker 1: those issues. But the transition piece is interesting to me

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Speaker 1: because you look at this roster and it's like Darius

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Speaker 1: Garland speed guard, Donovan Mitchell, you know, like literally S

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Speaker 1: tier athlete.

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Speaker 2: Evan Mobley is one of the most mobile bigs in

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Speaker 2: the league.

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Speaker 1: Jared Allens is a lot bigger than he was when

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Speaker 1: he was in Brooklyn, but he is still a very

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Speaker 1: mobile big. You've got a lot of speed, and you

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Speaker 1: have this defensive personnel that was certainly capable of getting

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Speaker 1: the stops that you needed to get out and run.

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Speaker 2: Was JB.

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Speaker 1: Bickerstaff just not emphasizing it enough. Do you think it

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Speaker 1: comes down to them forcing more turnovers? As Kenny Atkinson

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Speaker 1: has leaned more into switching, do you think it's just

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Speaker 1: been a point of emphasis, like, hey, dudes, let's get

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Speaker 1: up and down the floor. Like, what was it like

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Speaker 1: under JB. Bickerstaff where he felt like that was being

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Speaker 1: a missed opportunity.

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Speaker 3: You know, it's hard to say, man, because you know,

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Speaker 3: this is where like not being in the actual room

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Speaker 3: it makes it so hard because all of the public

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Speaker 3: facing information we had was that JB's coaching staff was

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Speaker 3: asking them to run. He was asking them to get

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Speaker 3: into their sets quicker. You know, you'd see, even anecdotally,

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Speaker 3: you'd see them kind of walking the ball up after

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Speaker 3: an inbound and he'd be clapping on the sideline like go,

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Speaker 3: go go, Like so you know, who knows if it

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Speaker 3: is the message, the message, the messenger, the personnel you know,

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Speaker 3: you know, or or you know, how they were, how

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Speaker 3: they were emphasizing it. That was the change, you know,

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Speaker 3: I asked, you know, I asked Kenny in my one

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Speaker 3: on one I'm like, hey, everyone talks about it in

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Speaker 3: the pace of how do you actually do it? Like

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Speaker 3: what what? Because you know, that's like the staple of

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Speaker 3: every off season and you know, you see reporting that

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Speaker 3: all through camp they were running with an eighteen second

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Speaker 3: shot clock. Oh wow, you know, or at least during

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Speaker 3: significant port parts of their scrimmage, you know, and like, so,

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Speaker 3: I don't know if the message is the same or

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Speaker 3: like Kenny just tweaked it in a way that the

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Speaker 3: guys were able to hear it better, or if it

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Speaker 3: was some of those things in practice where we're like, hey,

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Speaker 3: you actually just don't get twenty four seconds during the scrimmage,

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Speaker 3: you only get eighteen. You know, those are the kind

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Speaker 3: of things that I think it's a big alchemical reaction

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Speaker 3: in the end that like led to whatever got them

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Speaker 3: up the mountain got them up the mountain. Like do

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Speaker 3: I think think that it's definitely something Kenny values more

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Speaker 3: than JB valued. Yes, But like I do kind of

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Speaker 3: feel the instinct to defend JB a little bit. Who

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Speaker 3: by the way, I think Pistons are playing really good

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Speaker 3: basketball right now because a lot of a lot of

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Speaker 3: Cavs fans kind of have the instantly aw see, all

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Speaker 3: you had to do was ask him to run. I'm like, dude,

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Speaker 3: he asked him, Like he definitely was asking him to

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Speaker 3: go a little faster and get into their sets. But

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Speaker 3: you know, I think it's I think it's you know,

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Speaker 3: been a column A, been a column B, and the

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Speaker 3: outcome is they're running.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know how it goes sometimes like your your

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Speaker 1: wife says something to you and you don't actually listen,

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Speaker 1: but then someone else says it to you and then

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Speaker 1: you do. Sometimes you just need to a different voice.

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Speaker 3: I'm hearing this they had, They've been hearing the same

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Speaker 3: guy for five years exact. A new guy comes in

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Speaker 3: and says it five percent different. And I wouldn't be

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Speaker 3: surprised if JB turned on Calves tape and was like,

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Speaker 3: come on, I guart you curious. Is really shooting threes

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Speaker 3: Darius is? Darius Is three point rate is up nine

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Speaker 3: percent year over year, And literally after every game, JB

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Speaker 3: would be like, yeah, you just got to shoot more threes.

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Speaker 3: We were asking him to shoot more threes, and then

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Speaker 3: all of a sudden he is. So you know, there's

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Speaker 3: I'm sure there's a little bit of that play in

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Speaker 3: the bigger staff household.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a difference between like, like, to me, as

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Speaker 1: someone who's rooted for the Lakers over the last few years,

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Speaker 1: going from Frank Vogel to Darvin Ham was like, we

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Speaker 1: just need a different voice. It's different than like Darvin

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Speaker 1: Ham to JJ, where it's like this guy's actually incompetent

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Speaker 1: and we need to make a change like that is

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Speaker 1: a very different type of transition. Like I literally literally

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Speaker 1: just felt like the guys like were just done with Frank.

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Speaker 1: Frank had been their coach for several years. They just

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Speaker 1: needed to change, Like I think, I think that's kind

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Speaker 1: of the way this can go. Sometimes you just need

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Speaker 1: a different voice in there to make it feel reinvigorated,

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Speaker 1: to make it feel different. And I mean the pace

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Speaker 1: has been something that has transitioned into into the half

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Speaker 1: court as well, And like you know, to me, George's

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Speaker 1: kneeing is the classic example of this. His numbers are

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Speaker 1: actually down year over year, but just the speed with

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Speaker 1: which he's making decisions, the speed on his cuts, the

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Speaker 1: speed that he's slipping out of screens, he's like getting

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Speaker 1: drivele penetration, Like he's just everyone's just making so much

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Speaker 1: more deliberate movement in the half court. The way they

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Speaker 1: get up the floor and they run into their horn sets.

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Speaker 1: They're not just beating around the bush so they could

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Speaker 1: get to a Donovan Mitchell ball screen. They're running action

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Speaker 1: for the purpose of getting shots early in the clock.

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Speaker 1: Whether it's like oh, if we're running this horn set

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Speaker 1: and the dude's open on the backscreen, throw it. If

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Speaker 1: the skip passes open, throw it. If you have an

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Speaker 1: opportunity to drive a close out, drive it. And then

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Speaker 1: that's where the Evan Mobley part and obviously everyone's playing better.

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Speaker 1: We were talking about Garland earlier, and we'll get to

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Speaker 1: him in a second, But like the Evan Mobley on

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Speaker 1: ball stuff, to me, is just another way for them

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Speaker 1: to get that initial advantage so they can go bang

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Speaker 1: bang shot, you know, like get that initial drive the

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Speaker 1: clothes out kick easy catching foot three on the side,

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Speaker 1: and it's like they're doing a lot of this, like

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Speaker 1: spamming Marrol setting screens for MOBILEI right around the elbow

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Speaker 1: and then just quick slipping out to the wing. And

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Speaker 1: almost every time either Mobley's getting downhill and drawing multiple

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Speaker 1: defenders for kickouts or Merrill's open on the slip and

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Speaker 1: then it's hit shot for him or quick swing pass

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Speaker 1: to the corner, or swing to the pass, swing to

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Speaker 1: the corner, drive the baseline. There's another shot available, like

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Speaker 1: they're just getting the defense in rotation with these simple actions.

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Speaker 1: At at the beginning of possessions, everyone is moving quickly,

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Speaker 1: everyone is decisive, and it's.

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Speaker 2: Paying off.

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Speaker 1: One of the biggest things that stood out to me

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Speaker 1: is like it feels like Donovan Mitchell has been able

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Speaker 1: to be more picky about when he has to really

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Speaker 1: grab the reins on offense, because that was one of

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Speaker 1: the big things that stood out to me last year

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Speaker 1: with the Calves is it just felt like at times

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Speaker 1: Donovan would read the room and be like, we don't

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Speaker 1: have the juice right now, I gotta just spam pick

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Speaker 1: and roll and take my step back the reason my

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Speaker 1: little eurostep floaters and all that kind of stuff, and

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Speaker 1: like now it just feels like there's so much more

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Speaker 1: variety that he can be picky, which is leading to

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Speaker 1: an increase in his efficiency.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean so on the Donovan front, you know,

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Speaker 3: I think I mean really starting in my opinion, starting

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Speaker 3: from February last year, because Darius had such a what

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Speaker 3: I would call basically a lost season where you know,

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Speaker 3: he just was not himself due to injury, due to

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Speaker 3: personal whatever it might have been, he just wasn't himself.

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Speaker 3: Donovan basically played point guard. They basically played Luka Doncic

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Speaker 3: ball with Donovan in that role through the playoffs, and

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Speaker 3: you know, Donovan really helped keep the offense afloat, but

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Speaker 3: I always felt like that was a high floor, low

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Speaker 3: ceiling outcome for this team's offense, and you know, if

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Speaker 3: you're gonna play that kind of style, because that was

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Speaker 3: you know, a lot of the discussion this offseason where

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Speaker 3: you know, big contingencies of the fan base were like, oh,

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Speaker 3: we got to trade Darius, we gotta let Donovan run

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Speaker 3: the offense. And I was like, well, you know, if

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Speaker 3: we are going to just keep Donovan at point guard,

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Speaker 3: and then yeah, we probably because Darius is an over

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Speaker 3: underqualified to be an off ball shooting guard and you know,

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Speaker 3: and really needs to. If you're gonna have a guy

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Speaker 3: like that, he needs to play a point guard. And

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Speaker 3: it really bears out in the touches. Important to note

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Speaker 3: huge minutes played disclaimer here because no one in the

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Speaker 3: Cavs has been averaging thirty minutes a game right now,

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Speaker 3: but last year Donovan was averaging around seventy nine touches

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Speaker 3: a game, Darius averaged seventy five, and Evan averaged fifty one.

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Speaker 3: This year, Darius is leading the team at fifty nine

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Speaker 3: point four touches a game. Evan is second on the

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Speaker 3: team in fife at fifty seven point four and Donovan

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Speaker 3: is at fifty five point one. Like, I mean, if

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Speaker 3: you would have told me in March of last year

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Speaker 3: that Donovan would be third on the team in touches

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Speaker 3: per game year over year, I would have fallen out

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Speaker 3: of my chair. That's amazing stat I mean, this is

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Speaker 3: a team where you know, every single action was being

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Speaker 3: initiated by the guards generally without an advantage. You know,

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Speaker 3: a lot of just high pick and roll and then

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Speaker 3: let's see what we can do to a team that's

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Speaker 3: their offense is just frankly much more democratized. There are

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Speaker 3: a lot of guys starting plays, you know, they they

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Speaker 3: had to play last night against the Bulls where Jared

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Speaker 3: Allen gets the ball and takes it up or it

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Speaker 3: takes it at the top of the arc, runs a

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Speaker 3: handoff for Sam Merrill with Donovan just getting a flare

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Speaker 3: screen on the weak side. Like like Donovan is like

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Speaker 3: a secondary action. He's a decoy action almost for this team.

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Speaker 3: So I don't think, and I think when you don't

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Speaker 3: have a Luca or a Yokich level like ultra super

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Speaker 3: dupersar talent, you need to democratize your offense. You need

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Speaker 3: to have you need to have the defense kind of

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Speaker 3: not know where they need to be set up on

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Speaker 3: a possession of possession basis, And to your point, a

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Speaker 3: lot of ways they're doing that is just letting guys

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Speaker 3: like Evan just at the board and run. You know,

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Speaker 3: they're they're not feeling the need to have Darius and

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Speaker 3: Donovan walk the ball up court and initiate every set,

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Speaker 3: and it's just made them really hard to guard.

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Speaker 1: Dude, you're preaching right now. I would even argue that

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Speaker 1: for the top tier guys, you need to democratize your offense.

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Speaker 1: I would like I would, But you can get away

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Speaker 1: with it easier when you have Biokich. You can make

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Speaker 1: it further before it eventually crumbles. Like that's the crazy

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Speaker 1: part to me, Like when I when I think back,

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Speaker 1: like even like I would say, the closest person to

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Speaker 1: being able to actually do Luka Doncic ball successfully to

415
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Speaker 1: the latest levels was Lebron just because he had that

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Speaker 1: incredible amount of stamina. But even then, it was like

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Speaker 1: I remember, I remember on the twenty sixteen Calves, I

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Speaker 1: used to be like, why is Kyrie having these possessions

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Speaker 1: where he dribbles the ball up the floor like thirteen times?

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Speaker 1: And dribbles the clock out and takes a contested mid

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Speaker 1: range jump shot and literally there's not a single pass

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Speaker 1: on the entire possession. Like remember those possessions with the Calves.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it was like there's were the Lebron break possessions exactly.

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Speaker 2: And then it dawned on me.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, Lebron's standing twenty seven feet from the rim,

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Speaker 1: just over on the wing with his hands on the six.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I was like, I was like, it's so, it's so

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Speaker 1: fascinating to you because you you absolutely have to have variety.

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Speaker 1: I mean, even going back to Yokic, who was like

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Speaker 1: the last super duper star to really get it done.

432
00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:22,080
Speaker 1: With Jokic, it was like, oh, it's game one of

433
00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:24,520
Speaker 1: the finals and Aaron Gordon has the matchup. Let's just

434
00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:27,119
Speaker 1: throw the ball to Aaron Gordon six straight times on

435
00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:29,480
Speaker 1: Gabe Vincent to start the game and we're going to

436
00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:30,880
Speaker 1: build an initial lead.

437
00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:31,080
Speaker 2: Right.

438
00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:33,359
Speaker 1: It's like that's the thing is like you never know

439
00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:35,240
Speaker 1: how the matchups are gonna work as you go from

440
00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:40,160
Speaker 1: team to team. You know, I look at this particular

441
00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:42,680
Speaker 1: team for example, like you've got Donovan Mitchell, right, and

442
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:45,480
Speaker 1: Darius Garland. There are these speed guards that rely and

443
00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:48,399
Speaker 1: pull up shooting, getting dribble penetration in ball screens and

444
00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:51,000
Speaker 1: being able to spray out from there. When you play

445
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:53,640
Speaker 1: that style, inevitably you might run into a team that's

446
00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,359
Speaker 1: got a couple of really really damn good guards that

447
00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:59,040
Speaker 1: can guard the ball and that can stay attached on screens,

448
00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:01,560
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden it turns into a different

449
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:03,200
Speaker 1: type of game. And all of a sudden, having a

450
00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:06,439
Speaker 1: guy like Mobley who can initiate offense at least to

451
00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:09,440
Speaker 1: get the defense in rotation so that then Darius Garland

452
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:12,680
Speaker 1: and Donovan Mitchell are attacking closeouts, then you can use

453
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:15,240
Speaker 1: their advantages without having to have that great guard defender

454
00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:16,440
Speaker 1: pressuring the hell out of him.

455
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:18,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, or just get the ball with advantage, you know,

456
00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:20,679
Speaker 3: Like I've talked about that a lot of you know,

457
00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:22,879
Speaker 3: my biggest gripe with how the offense I felt like

458
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,399
Speaker 3: kind of collapsed down the end of last year was

459
00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:29,000
Speaker 3: that Darius was just having to start a play from scratch.

460
00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:31,560
Speaker 3: And Darius is not a big guy. He is not

461
00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:34,439
Speaker 3: a strong guy. He is not an explosive guy. That

462
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:37,280
Speaker 3: is not none of those things are playing to his strength.

463
00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:40,720
Speaker 3: So like, yeah, he can run a cold high pick

464
00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:45,240
Speaker 3: and roll and get you a pretty solid possession out

465
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:47,879
Speaker 3: of it. But if he catches it coming off a

466
00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:51,400
Speaker 3: pin down where the defenders worried about him shooting because

467
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:53,719
Speaker 3: he caught the ball with two three feet of space

468
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:57,240
Speaker 3: before he even goes into that secondary pick and roll

469
00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 3: or a dribble handoff where he gets where he's getting

470
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:02,960
Speaker 3: the ball with the running start. Now the things he

471
00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:05,720
Speaker 3: is great at, which is the change of direction, the

472
00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:10,240
Speaker 3: tempo kind of pushbowl where he you know, he goes

473
00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:13,479
Speaker 3: from zero to max speed back to zero better than

474
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:16,400
Speaker 3: almost anyone, Like all the stuff he is great at.

475
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:19,200
Speaker 3: Now he gets to actually leverage with a defense that's

476
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:22,800
Speaker 3: already trying to catch up, like and that is the

477
00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:24,880
Speaker 3: stuff that they're able to do right now. I mean,

478
00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:28,720
Speaker 3: obviously the Evan stuff. And Evan has always been kind

479
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,680
Speaker 3: of the thing that enables that because he is an

480
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:35,000
Speaker 3: elite playmaker as a big in terms of his fuel

481
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:37,040
Speaker 3: for the game, in terms of his ability to pass,

482
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:40,280
Speaker 3: and the skill stuff has been catching up. You know,

483
00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:42,959
Speaker 3: the handle is getting a little tighter every year, the

484
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,360
Speaker 3: touch is getting a little better every year. But his

485
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,399
Speaker 3: ability to read and kind of interpret what's going on

486
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:51,160
Speaker 3: that's always been there, and I feel like they're really

487
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:53,000
Speaker 3: leaning much harder into it.

488
00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:55,280
Speaker 1: The three points shooting piece is important too, because it's

489
00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:59,520
Speaker 1: helping him get drible penetration. I thought like Zach Levin

490
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:01,439
Speaker 1: went on a little run last night. As I was

491
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 1: watching him, I was like, man, if he didn't make

492
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,040
Speaker 1: like one hundred million dollars and if I could trust

493
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 1: his body to hold up, I think he'd be such

494
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:09,320
Speaker 1: an interesting trade target.

495
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:11,600
Speaker 3: Because he had a couple of nasty plays last.

496
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:12,440
Speaker 2: Yes he did.

497
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 1: When I was watching him, I was like, man, he

498
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:15,800
Speaker 1: still got that little left shoulder fade he hit to

499
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:16,320
Speaker 1: tie the game.

500
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:17,919
Speaker 2: Was it at like one o six or something like that.

501
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:19,439
Speaker 2: I was like, man, like he's got them.

502
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:22,800
Speaker 3: It's just the play where he is streaking down the floor.

503
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:26,560
Speaker 3: He gets bumped on an outlet pass and he like

504
00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:29,720
Speaker 3: high points the ball, taps it to himself and then

505
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:33,280
Speaker 3: gets hit again and hits the reverse layup and one.

506
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:33,880
Speaker 3: I'm like, my.

507
00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:38,359
Speaker 1: God, an athlete, complete apex athlete, I know. But like

508
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:42,160
Speaker 1: during that run, like Darius Garland had two huge plays.

509
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 1: One the the ball screen where the defender was like

510
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:48,920
Speaker 1: shading heavily on his right side and he ended up

511
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:50,880
Speaker 1: I think it was Levine and you know, up getting

512
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 1: downhill and throwing that beautiful lob to Evan Mobley. And

513
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 1: then the second one was just a dribble penetration off

514
00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:58,240
Speaker 1: the top of the key and he got a little

515
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:01,000
Speaker 1: left handed layup and it's like he's getting downhill because

516
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 1: of the threat of the three point shot like that.

517
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 1: That is a that is a key element to it.

518
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,800
Speaker 1: If you can get baked in dribble penetration without having

519
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 1: to leverage your athletic tools simply because of the threat

520
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:12,879
Speaker 1: of your shot, that is where you can bring real value.

521
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 1: And again that's the other matchup piece where it's like

522
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 1: he had the most favorable matchup in that situation. You know,

523
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:21,480
Speaker 1: like it's a lot easier for him to go to

524
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:23,920
Speaker 1: work against Zach Lavine than it is for Donovan Mitchell

525
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:25,919
Speaker 1: to go against ayatassum MoU whoever it is. That's on

526
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,920
Speaker 1: him in any given situation where he's drawing the high

527
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:32,120
Speaker 1: leverage perimeter defender and that that's where that variety comes in.

528
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 1: That is where uh, that is where that like you

529
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:37,919
Speaker 1: just have more punches you can go to depending on

530
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:40,159
Speaker 1: the matchup. So I've a couple things I want to

531
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 1: get to you real quick. So the depth, I did

532
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:47,720
Speaker 1: not even notice in my research that there's not a

533
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 1: single cav playing over thirty minutes.

534
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 3: Changed last night.

535
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 2: But let's tell me a little.

536
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:57,840
Speaker 1: Bit about the bench and the specific guys have been

537
00:25:57,840 --> 00:25:59,959
Speaker 1: popping to you. That third quarter run from Ti Dromelin,

538
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 1: like his activity on the ball and his ability to

539
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 1: get deflections to get them outa in transition, and he's

540
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:07,200
Speaker 1: kind of a sneaky little bucket getter too, So tell

541
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:08,359
Speaker 1: us a little bit about the bench.

542
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 3: So before I started about the bench, I did want

543
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 3: to hit on the fact that Kenny is just running

544
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:19,919
Speaker 3: really great rotations. And you know, it was really interesting because,

545
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:22,640
Speaker 3: you know, obviously, being so team focused as I am,

546
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 3: you kind of forget how other coaches coach, if that

547
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:28,960
Speaker 3: makes sense, like because you know, we just had JB

548
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:32,200
Speaker 3: for five years and Bickerstaff is a guy who really

549
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:35,360
Speaker 3: prefers to run a tighter rotation. He really, you know,

550
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 3: you can tell JB is at his happiest when he's

551
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 3: playing eight, you know, and every now and again would

552
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 3: extend to nine. But there were, you know, the five

553
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,440
Speaker 3: minutes last year where the team was fully healthy, he

554
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 3: tried a ten man rotation, and it just felt like

555
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 3: you know, you ever like you know, you ever at

556
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:55,640
Speaker 3: a buddy's house and you borrow like a hoodie or something,

557
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:59,120
Speaker 3: because it's called like this isn't quite mine, this doesn't comfortable,

558
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 3: you know, like that's the way it felt with JB.

559
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,440
Speaker 3: It felt like he was trying on another coaches tactics

560
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:08,040
Speaker 3: when he had to go ten. And then you watch

561
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 3: what Kenny's doing playing ten, and he he said before

562
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:14,159
Speaker 3: the season he might try play at eleven when the

563
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:18,399
Speaker 3: team's fully healthy. And like you can really see why it,

564
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:21,280
Speaker 3: you know, for someone who was like I was like, dude,

565
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:23,119
Speaker 3: they have four guys that need at least thirty two

566
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 3: to thirty four minutes a game that gets really hard,

567
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 3: really fast to you just run out of minutes and

568
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 3: you're playing guys two minute shifts.

569
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:30,159
Speaker 2: It.

570
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 3: He completely has changed my mind on this because of

571
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,920
Speaker 3: his blend of orthodoxy of like guys know when they're

572
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:39,800
Speaker 3: getting their run, they know when they're getting subbed out,

573
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 3: and as a result, they're able to play very contained

574
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:47,680
Speaker 3: and you know, really put all their energy towards their run.

575
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 3: You know, at the you know, seven minute mark of

576
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 3: every first quarter, Sam Merril and George Nayan come in

577
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,639
Speaker 3: and normally by the two minute mark they're out. So

578
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 3: those guys know, this is what this, this is the

579
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 3: way I need to run and how I'm going to play.

580
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:05,240
Speaker 3: During the stretch, there's there's no ambiguity to it. But

581
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 3: in the second half he's he kind of is able

582
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:09,720
Speaker 3: to read the room a little bit more. He's a

583
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:13,359
Speaker 3: lot more flexible and a little less orthodox. So you know, hey,

584
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 3: we are starters look like they're dead. We've played the

585
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:20,359
Speaker 3: heaviest schedule than of the entire league so far. We're

586
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:22,960
Speaker 3: just gonna go with a five man bench lineup. So

587
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,400
Speaker 3: he's doing a really nice job of creating a structure

588
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:28,640
Speaker 3: where guys know where their minutes are coming from and

589
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 3: giving himself the flexibility. So I feel like that is

590
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 3: part one to this is the bench is playing better

591
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 3: because everyone knows exactly what their job is and when

592
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 3: their job needs to be executed. And then obviously the

593
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 3: players are just playing great. You know. Sam Merril, you know,

594
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 3: has been a real tool, as you mentioned, alongside Evan

595
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 3: Mobley and like Dude Gie your Ome, Tie Jerome, he

596
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 3: has been the best backup point guard in the league't

597
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 3: I actually did did a little right before this, and

598
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 3: he's it's pretty objectively true. Maybe TJ McConnell can can

599
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 3: lay claim. Tijerome is averaging twenty two points, seven point

600
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 3: six assists, four and a half boards, three point three

601
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 3: steals per thirty six on sixty one fifty four eighty

602
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 3: three percent.

603
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 2: Splits its outrageous, like he is.

604
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 3: He was a guy I was really excited about the

605
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 3: matting last year. He only plays two games. He has

606
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 3: just a freak season ending ankle sprain that just never

607
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:38,240
Speaker 3: gets better. It's a high ankle sprain. At the beginning

608
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 3: of the year, you go, ah, he might miss a

609
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 3: month or a month and a half and then he'll

610
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 3: be back. And he never got better. He ended up

611
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 3: having to get surgery. It was a crazy thing. And

612
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 3: you know, so he was a guy who was either

613
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 3: out of sight, out of mind for the Cabs or

614
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 3: for Cabs fans, not this Cabs fan, but for the

615
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 3: general population. Or was a guy that like was kind

616
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 3: of representative of like frustration with like, oh, this guy

617
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:03,120
Speaker 3: that we added didn't even play. You got to hang

618
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 3: ankle Spring didn't even end up playing, like Vincent for

619
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 3: the Lakers, is what you're saying. Absolutely, that's a great

620
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:10,920
Speaker 3: cop you know where you know it's not fair to

621
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 3: the guy, but certain certain parts of the fan base

622
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 3: just kind of treated him as like part of their

623
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 3: frustration and uh, and he has just been he's taken

624
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 3: this game up another level in the system. Remember he

625
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 3: played for Kenny and Golden State when he when he

626
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:29,719
Speaker 3: was kind of the second slash third point guard depending

627
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 3: on h depending on what part of the season you

628
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 3: were in for the Warriors. And he had real moments

629
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 3: there too. Absolutely had real moments against the Cabs. I

630
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 3: think that's part of the reason they designed to be

631
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 3: scored like twenty seven and a bench mob win in Cleveland.

632
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 3: But you know, he he's got great size, six ' five,

633
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 3: he's got a great stop and start game. The playmaking

634
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 3: has been really good. And you know, here's the thing, man, Like,

635
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 3: this team is not an inherently nasty team. You know,

636
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 3: Evan and Jared they are so fundamental, so smart, but

637
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:07,080
Speaker 3: they aren't. They aren't, you know, the the kind of

638
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 3: guys who are like digging elbows into people's sides. You know,

639
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 3: neither is Darius, Neither is Donovan. You know, I would

640
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 3: say we are the least grifty team in the league

641
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 3: on that front, you know, like yeah, and the free

642
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 3: throw late rates will U will confirm that. So it's

643
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 3: nice having a guy who kind of plays like a dick,

644
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 3: you know, like I mean, I think there's no other

645
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 3: way to say it than a guy like Jerome is

646
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 3: kind of doing the stop start, you know, clearing space

647
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 3: with his elbows, and you know, he just plays different

648
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 3: than all their other players, and so he has been unbelievable.

649
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 3: I thought he was one of the guys that was

650
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 3: primed or you know, most dangerous to lose his rotation

651
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 3: spot when Max Strus returned, because, by the way, Maxtreus

652
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 3: hasn't played a minute yet. Yeah, what about Max Trus

653
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 3: exactly our starting small forward who was our best plus

654
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 3: minus player last year.

655
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 2: You start when he comes back, I think so.

656
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 3: I think so I would be really really surprised if

657
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 3: he doesn't.

658
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:02,960
Speaker 2: Uh.

659
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 3: And you know, I think that we, you know, to

660
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,719
Speaker 3: do a quick detour. I think we've just now started

661
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 3: to see them really miss start missing him. You know

662
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 3: that Brooklyn game where they're having to you know, the

663
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 3: bigs are not able to make an impact, you know,

664
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 3: Brooklyn's playing super tough at the point of attack. We're

665
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 3: playing Karris Lavert at power forward, and they won the

666
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 3: game with that lineup, but that it was dodgy a

667
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 3: few times on the glass and things like that, and

668
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 3: they you know that would be Max Stru's playing those

669
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:32,400
Speaker 3: power forward minutes, and you know he can shoot on

670
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 3: the move.

671
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 1: He can shoot on the move too, which is a

672
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 1: they're like he brings He's kind of like what Merrill does,

673
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 1: but for.

674
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 3: The starters, Yeah, he he kind of is an amalgamation

675
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 3: of what Dean Wade, Isaacle Korro and Karris Lavert provide

676
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 3: all individually. He kind of does all those things at

677
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 3: like a B to B plus level. And I think

678
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 3: I just think he's better than all those guys. If

679
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 3: I'm being really like just a little reductive. He's just

680
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 3: the best role player on the team in terms of

681
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 3: what he actually brings to the core. So you know,

682
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,479
Speaker 3: they haven't had him. I thought Ty Jerome would be,

683
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:06,560
Speaker 3: you know, a guy that maybe might drop out of

684
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 3: the rotation. I don't think you can. He's been that good,

685
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 3: that consistent, and he's saved them a few times.

686
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:15,240
Speaker 1: And more often than not, you just have too many

687
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 1: opportunities in the regular season to give guys minutes. It's

688
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 1: it's like the thirteen man rotation in Golden State, which,

689
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 1: by the way, I think this is where Kenny gets

690
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 1: that idea from, which is basically like, we're gonna run

691
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 1: like crazy, We're gonna play super hard, we're gonna play

692
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 1: with a ton of pace in the half court. Everyone's

693
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 1: minutes are going to be down, but we're gonna do

694
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 1: these like just aggressively long rotations, but to your point, consistent,

695
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 1: so the guys know what they can count on and

696
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 1: they're not scared of getting pulled anytime they make a mistake.

697
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 2: But like the I think.

698
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 1: That that becomes that goes hand in hand with the scrappiness,

699
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:49,720
Speaker 1: that goes hand in hand with the forcing of turnovers.

700
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 1: By the way, you mentioned the huge offensive rebound on

701
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 1: Twitter this morning, the one where Ty got the rebound,

702
00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 1: missed the three, got another rebound, and then it ended

703
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 1: up I think with Karris Lavert hitting three at the top.

704
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:00,920
Speaker 2: Of the key.

705
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 1: He had another huge play down the stretch right before

706
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 1: they took him out, right before they went to the closers,

707
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 1: where it was one, one, o six, I think, and

708
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 1: then he just picks zach Lavie and clean at half

709
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 1: court and they go.

710
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 3: He's had a lot of those, bro, He's had a

711
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 3: ton of those kind of plays. It's been bananas. He uh.

712
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 3: He is averaging three point three steals per thirty six

713
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 3: right now. It's his previous career high and like almost

714
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:27,399
Speaker 3: no minutes in Phoenix was one point six. I mean

715
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 3: he is, I mean, and these are consistent rips where

716
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:33,800
Speaker 3: he is like he's kind of doing the sprint of

717
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 3: the ball handlers, they take it up half court and

718
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:38,439
Speaker 3: just you know, pick six of them. Like these are

719
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 3: not like low impact, Oh the guy just happened to

720
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:43,840
Speaker 3: throw me the ball steals. These are I'm ripping the

721
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:46,719
Speaker 3: ball away from you steals, And like that's generally been

722
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:50,279
Speaker 3: a big emphasis from Kenny going into preseason, where he's like, hey,

723
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:53,040
Speaker 3: we've got this great defensive team, we're not a great

724
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 3: turnover forcing team. Plays like that where they're really emphasizing

725
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:00,799
Speaker 3: ripping the ball. Even guys like the Yang have gotten

726
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 3: a lot their hands on balls, a lot more in

727
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 3: terms of getting rips and steals, like those kind of

728
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 3: players are like are part of what it has made

729
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 3: this team feel a little bit inevitable over the last

730
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 3: couple of weeks where it's like, man, every time the

731
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:18,560
Speaker 3: other team's making them real push, someone like tied Jerums

732
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:20,840
Speaker 3: to rip them and it you know, it generates a

733
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:23,920
Speaker 3: wide open three, and it's like, that's so painful for

734
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 3: the posision and yeah, he's been amazing, just makes.

735
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 2: It play exactly.

736
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:31,239
Speaker 1: They're they're forcing seventeen turnovers per game, which is third

737
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 1: in the NBA. Last year they were eighteenth. And the

738
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:35,919
Speaker 1: other big thing I've noticed in this I think also

739
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 1: came from Golden State. It's like that textbook like not

740
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:42,000
Speaker 1: conceding switches just for the sake of conceding switches, but

741
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 1: being more willing to switch and then like stunting and

742
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 1: recovering rather than hard helping and doubling, which has caused

743
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 1: defenders to be positioned in passing lanes more often and

744
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,000
Speaker 1: has caused offensive players that have the ball to be

745
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:57,279
Speaker 1: more indecisive. So then when they turn to make those

746
00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 1: kickout passes, there's people in the lanes and they're using

747
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 1: that to then just further leverage their transition pushes. Like

748
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,799
Speaker 1: I mean the game against the Lakers, man, I think

749
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 1: they had I think the Lakers had six spedovers. Yeah,

750
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:12,879
Speaker 1: I was a complete beating. They had I think six

751
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 1: turnovers in the first quarter, and I'm pretty sure they

752
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 1: scored on every single one of them.

753
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:17,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, they had.

754
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:18,840
Speaker 1: I think they hit five threes in the laps. They

755
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:21,800
Speaker 1: did like seventeen points on six turnovers in one quarter.

756
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:24,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, and you know what's funny, the defense

757
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 3: is actually underperforming what I think they should be doing.

758
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:31,240
Speaker 3: I want to say there, I didn't. I didn't update

759
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 3: the stat after the Bulls game, but they're twenty fifth

760
00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:37,279
Speaker 3: and opposing three point percentage. Like teams are hitting at

761
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:40,000
Speaker 3: a very very high rate. They had two games in

762
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 3: a row where aj Green and Jose Alvarado combined to

763
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:46,440
Speaker 3: go like fourteen to fifteen from three against them, Like

764
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 3: you know, they they've had guys go just bananas against

765
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:53,239
Speaker 3: them from three despite so like I think their ninth

766
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:55,399
Speaker 3: in defensive rating. That might have changed after last night.

767
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:59,400
Speaker 3: But like they are generally underperforming their metrics. But to

768
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 3: your point, I think their fundamentals are really really strong

769
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:05,920
Speaker 3: when they're switching, especially when they switch a big at

770
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:09,040
Speaker 3: the point of attack they're doing. I really would recommend

771
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:11,799
Speaker 3: anyone watching the team to not look at the ball

772
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:14,759
Speaker 3: on those plays and look at the tag out that

773
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 3: happens on the back end where you know Darius Garland.

774
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 3: They'll run. The opposing team will run a pick and

775
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 3: roll at Darius Garland and Evan Mobley. Evan will take

776
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:27,440
Speaker 3: the switch. Darius will switch onto the opposing team's power forward.

777
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:32,320
Speaker 3: In no time at all, Jared Allen will have swapped

778
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:35,759
Speaker 3: in tag Darius to a lower threat player. You know,

779
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:38,400
Speaker 3: And that was a team, you know. I've always credited

780
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 3: the Boston Celtics for this. They're the best tagout team

781
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:43,439
Speaker 3: in the league and have been for like six years.

782
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:45,880
Speaker 3: The Cavs are starting to learn how to do that

783
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:49,439
Speaker 3: at a much better rate. And then, frankly, dude, they're

784
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 3: just playing better at the point of attack. Darius Garland

785
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:55,520
Speaker 3: when he gets switched onto an APEX scorer, isn't getting cooked.

786
00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:58,920
Speaker 3: Sam Merrill is holding his ground, He's not killing it.

787
00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:02,479
Speaker 3: But when you have Evan or Jared on the back line,

788
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:04,759
Speaker 3: your margin for air as a defender is pretty high.

789
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:08,800
Speaker 3: You just can't get absolutely torched. So even if you

790
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 3: get beaten, but like make it a little harder for them,

791
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 3: you're still probably going to give up a less than

792
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 3: ideal shot for the offense. So like, again, their margin

793
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 3: forer air is great, their attention to detail at the

794
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:23,920
Speaker 3: point of attack is great. Steph no on Twitter just

795
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:27,839
Speaker 3: this morning posted a clip of Donovan denying Zacly being

796
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 3: down the stretch where he has scored three or four

797
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:33,360
Speaker 3: possessions in a row and basically Donnie faceguards him for

798
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 3: an entire possession to keep him away from the ball.

799
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 3: Like they have the top end talent on the back

800
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:41,960
Speaker 3: line and then they just have the attention to detail

801
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 3: at the point of attack. And it's and again, I

802
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:48,239
Speaker 3: think this is the ninth overall team in defense right now.

803
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:50,239
Speaker 3: I really think they'll end the season around, you know,

804
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:52,720
Speaker 3: in the top five. So even if their offense drops

805
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:55,400
Speaker 3: off a little, they have margin ferrer on the other end.

806
00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:57,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, it goes back to the thing I said at

807
00:38:58,000 --> 00:38:59,719
Speaker 1: the beginning of the show, which is like, once you

808
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 1: start to win to a certain degree, it becomes infectious

809
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:05,480
Speaker 1: and then you actually start It's kind of like I

810
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:08,400
Speaker 1: was talking about with george' niang, like guys even that

811
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:10,879
Speaker 1: haven't been great defenders in the past are just more

812
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 1: locked in because it's like, hey, we're doing this together.

813
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:15,759
Speaker 1: Guys like we're all in this together. There's a there's

814
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 1: like almost like a community feel from the defensive end,

815
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 1: and like you, it's I think this is one of

816
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:22,759
Speaker 1: the coolest things that happens in sports when you kind

817
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 1: of catch this like flash in a pan winning type

818
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:29,400
Speaker 1: of environment, because you can literally see it build on itself.

819
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 1: You can literally see it gain momentum. But we have

820
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 1: to go negative now, Carter. So if I asked you,

821
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:40,719
Speaker 1: if I asked you to nitpick this team and to

822
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 1: come up with the reason why you are just I'm

823
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:45,840
Speaker 1: not even saying a reason why they would fail, just

824
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,320
Speaker 1: say what you are concerned about. Is there anything that

825
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:50,919
Speaker 1: when you watch them when things do go off the rails,

826
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 1: when teams do go on run, like, oh, Chicago's up

827
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:56,040
Speaker 1: seven in the third quarter, what's happening? What are the

828
00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:59,320
Speaker 1: things that you're seeing? If you had to nitpick this team.

829
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:01,879
Speaker 3: Well, it really hasn't been much. So this these will

830
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:06,840
Speaker 3: be the definition of nippicks. You know, I've noticed that

831
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:09,879
Speaker 3: there there are some possessions. I think in the last

832
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:12,719
Speaker 3: two games we've seen it more than any other where

833
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:15,400
Speaker 3: there's been a little bit of a backslide where, uh,

834
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 3: you know, they're doing the swing swing into a swing

835
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:19,840
Speaker 3: swing into a swing swing, and then all of a sudden,

836
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:22,359
Speaker 3: Donovan has to shoot a grenade because there's two seconds left.

837
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 3: You know, they there's been a little bit of a

838
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:28,239
Speaker 3: backslide there, or Darius doesn't take the open three when

839
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:30,520
Speaker 3: the defender goes under. So those are some of the

840
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:33,919
Speaker 3: habit things I think in terms of the comfort level,

841
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:38,080
Speaker 3: you know, I've you know, we talked about this earlier

842
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:41,440
Speaker 3: in the pod, but I think Donovan Mitchell has had

843
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:46,120
Speaker 3: the biggest degree of an adjustment to make of anyone

844
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:49,800
Speaker 3: on the team. And I think there are some a

845
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:53,720
Speaker 3: few possessions this year where if you're really watching closely,

846
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 3: where he is breaking the offense to just go get

847
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 3: to go, take a get a bucket, and he's amazing

848
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 3: at that. But it is noteworthy that he's I feel

849
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 3: like Donovan is still finding himself in the Kenny offense

850
00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:10,440
Speaker 3: more than anyone else, which is funny because all of

851
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:13,960
Speaker 3: his percent all of his efficiency numbers are are high,

852
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:17,279
Speaker 3: but you can still see a few cracks where it's like,

853
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 3: all right, Donovan, me like you you can't hijack that possession.

854
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 3: You know, everything's running super smooth. But to his credit again,

855
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:29,400
Speaker 3: I know this is the nitpicking section, but even when

856
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:32,800
Speaker 3: he does that, he doesn't he hasn't been stubborn. You know,

857
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:36,200
Speaker 3: the next game down the stretch that that game is tight,

858
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 3: there in the middle of a huge comeback, uh you know,

859
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:43,320
Speaker 3: being spurred by Darius, being spurred by Evan and Donovan

860
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:46,640
Speaker 3: comes down basically doesn't pass an entire posision, takes a

861
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 3: contested seventeen footer and misses. You know, all every Cabs

862
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 3: fan and are Discord is furious at the shot. And

863
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:55,640
Speaker 3: then the next like four possessions that goes Darius.

864
00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:56,960
Speaker 2: You you you go run.

865
00:41:57,280 --> 00:41:59,880
Speaker 3: You're cooking right now. So you know, I think he

866
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:03,080
Speaker 3: is still kind of figuring out where he is supposed

867
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 3: to press and push. You know, they needed him to

868
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:10,320
Speaker 3: do that last night against the Bulls with heavy legs,

869
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:12,239
Speaker 3: and you know, he ends up scoring I think it

870
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:15,319
Speaker 3: was thirty six. You know, there have been games where

871
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 3: he has needed to let Darius kind of run the

872
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:21,840
Speaker 3: offense down the stretch. So that's one little thing. I

873
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:25,359
Speaker 3: think generally the three point percentage is just too high.

874
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:27,840
Speaker 3: They're not all going to keep shooting this well. You know,

875
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:31,239
Speaker 3: Carris is well over forty percent for Karris Lebert is

876
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:33,759
Speaker 3: at forty seven percent from three this season. You know,

877
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:35,959
Speaker 3: I don't I don't expect.

878
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 2: That to hold.

879
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:38,800
Speaker 1: There is a lot of guys around the entire league

880
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:42,640
Speaker 1: that are shooting outrageously good. It's kind of a weird

881
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 1: start to the year. Have you noticed that.

882
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:46,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's just been I don't know if

883
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 3: it's if it's just fresh legs. Defenses are a little behind.

884
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:53,200
Speaker 3: But you know, Donovan's at forty one, Darius is at

885
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 3: forty six, Carris is at forty seven, Isaac Okoro is

886
00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 3: at forty eight, ty Jerome is at fifty four. Like

887
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:02,279
Speaker 3: the these things are great and fun, but you do

888
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:04,840
Speaker 3: expect some drop offs. So I think those are the

889
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 3: things that I'm kind of keeping my eye on, and

890
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 3: I'm just going to keep keeping my eye on the

891
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:08,840
Speaker 3: clutch stuff.

892
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:09,239
Speaker 2: You know.

893
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:11,839
Speaker 3: Are they going to start slowing down again when their

894
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:14,400
Speaker 3: legs are tired late later in the year, reverting with

895
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:17,399
Speaker 3: those bad habits, or are they going to continually run

896
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:20,440
Speaker 3: offense get good looks which they have been through the stretch.

897
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:22,920
Speaker 3: You know, I think those are the big things. You know,

898
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:25,439
Speaker 3: there there's some knits to pick on the back line,

899
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:28,719
Speaker 3: you know, you know if if Niang is you know,

900
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:31,320
Speaker 3: they don't have a lot of big man depth. Like

901
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:33,279
Speaker 3: it's funny because everyone talks about them as this big,

902
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:36,040
Speaker 3: big team, but you know they really only have two

903
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:38,160
Speaker 3: centers on the roster, and one of them starts for

904
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:41,920
Speaker 3: them at Power Forward, you know, because Tristan Thompson is

905
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:44,040
Speaker 3: much more of a veteran leader than a guy that

906
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:46,520
Speaker 3: you really want to be playing twenty minutes a game.

907
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:49,960
Speaker 3: What happens to this team if Evan Mobley misses three

908
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:53,400
Speaker 3: weeks due to injury, or Jared Allen is having a

909
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:55,600
Speaker 3: series where he just can't hang for whatever. You know,

910
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:57,880
Speaker 3: he's having a bad series and you want him closer

911
00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:01,400
Speaker 3: to twenty minutes a game, not not you know, thirty two,

912
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:05,319
Speaker 3: thirty four, Like that's the one like roster piece where

913
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:08,720
Speaker 3: I go, This feels a little shallow.

914
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:09,200
Speaker 2: You know.

915
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:10,840
Speaker 3: I feel pretty good about them at the guard I

916
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:14,320
Speaker 3: feel pretty good about them at the wing. But the bigs,

917
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:17,360
Speaker 3: you know, like you know a guy, you know, a

918
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:19,839
Speaker 3: guy that you know Mike co hosts Justin, I've talked

919
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:22,200
Speaker 3: about a loies man. How nice would a Larry Nanceby

920
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 3: on a team like this? So you know a guy

921
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:25,920
Speaker 3: who can play a little four or five because they

922
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:27,479
Speaker 3: just don't have any four or fives on the roster

923
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:30,680
Speaker 3: other than Evan, And like, ultimately you do want him

924
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:32,600
Speaker 3: playing a lot of minutes at the power forward because

925
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:35,399
Speaker 3: that's a big part of your team's identity. So those

926
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:37,719
Speaker 3: are my knits to pick. But man, do they feel

927
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:38,640
Speaker 3: nitpicky right now?

928
00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:42,839
Speaker 1: I thought there was a quality nitpicking a jockey from

929
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 1: Ucarter for an undefeated team.

930
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:46,239
Speaker 2: It's a hard job. I thought you did good.

931
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:49,400
Speaker 1: You know, the Donovan Mitchell thing with it's kind of

932
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:53,840
Speaker 1: delicate because I have overwhelmingly been positive about it because

933
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:56,399
Speaker 1: I've seen so many examples this year where he's willing

934
00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:58,279
Speaker 1: to stand on the side un lets somebody go to work,

935
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:00,360
Speaker 1: which has been a huge moment of growth him. And

936
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 1: but at the same time, like staying mobile and moving

937
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:06,239
Speaker 1: around and doing his job and doing something like, uh

938
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 1: has been bad. He's been our best player. Yeah, the

939
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:15,960
Speaker 1: nitpickiest things, but yeah, even on the bad possessions too.

940
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:18,359
Speaker 1: Like I always like, I always have a little bit

941
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:20,279
Speaker 1: of grace for that sort of thing, and you take

942
00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:22,960
Speaker 1: that away from him. Yeah, And like, also there is

943
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:25,520
Speaker 1: something to be said about a score, like wanting to

944
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:28,399
Speaker 1: feel the basketball a little bit, like they're like it's

945
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:30,920
Speaker 1: like it's like, for instance, like I've always hated the

946
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:33,520
Speaker 1: right shoulder fade from Lebron in the post, Like I

947
00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:35,480
Speaker 1: feel like he's never made it more than thirty two

948
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:37,080
Speaker 1: thirty three percent of the time. I feel like he

949
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:40,840
Speaker 1: settles for it way too often. But I have always

950
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:43,440
Speaker 1: just been okay with Lebron taking three or four kind

951
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:46,200
Speaker 1: of BS shots a game where he's just kind of

952
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:50,560
Speaker 1: feeling out his like kind of like creative shot making,

953
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:52,319
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Because then again, I want

954
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:53,920
Speaker 1: him to feel a little bit more comfortable when it

955
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 1: if he does end up in a late clock situation

956
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:57,520
Speaker 1: at the end of a game and and he's created

957
00:45:57,520 --> 00:45:59,919
Speaker 1: a shot. So like there's always a delicate balance between

958
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:02,680
Speaker 1: letting a score field the ball and like, Okay, you're

959
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:04,400
Speaker 1: starting to co opt too many possessions. We need to

960
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:06,840
Speaker 1: get back into our flow. And so it's always complicated.

961
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:08,680
Speaker 1: But I do think Donovan has done a good job

962
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:25,120
Speaker 1: for our last topic today. I'm just gonna I'm just

963
00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 1: going to take the Devil's advocate stance, and I do

964
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:31,319
Speaker 1: kind of feel this way, but it's just way too

965
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 1: early in the season. I just want to see a

966
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:37,040
Speaker 1: lot more basketball. But let's say I'm like, Okay, I

967
00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:39,120
Speaker 1: think Boston's way better than Cleveland.

968
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:43,080
Speaker 2: And here's why. I think that. Inevitably they can.

969
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:48,640
Speaker 1: Do their you know, killer whale hunt the matchup game

970
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:52,480
Speaker 1: and consistently get to situations where they can attack Garland

971
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:55,160
Speaker 1: and space to get the defense in rotation, pull Jared

972
00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:58,000
Speaker 1: Allen and Evan Mobley further away from the rim. They

973
00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:00,680
Speaker 1: have the ability on defense to do a lot more switching.

974
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:04,600
Speaker 1: They have connectivity there too. We know that they're going

975
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:07,919
Speaker 1: to do something like put Jason Tatum or put Jason

976
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:10,640
Speaker 1: Tatum on Jared Allen like they did last year, and

977
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:13,960
Speaker 1: probably put Porzingis on Evan Mobley and have him just

978
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:16,600
Speaker 1: sit around the basket. We know that there's like a

979
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:20,759
Speaker 1: formula here for Boston. What is Can you make a

980
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:24,520
Speaker 1: case for our viewers why you think Cleveland should be

981
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:27,360
Speaker 1: on Boston's tier or if you don't think that they

982
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:30,160
Speaker 1: should be explained how close you think they are?

983
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:33,400
Speaker 3: Okay, So I do think Boston is just far and

984
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:35,520
Speaker 3: away the best team in the league. I'm not I'm not.

985
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:38,600
Speaker 3: I don't got my blinders on that hard. You are

986
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:41,919
Speaker 3: giving me the opportunity to eric grievance though. That's fun,

987
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:44,840
Speaker 3: which is that I don't know why everyone's acting like

988
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:48,239
Speaker 3: the Indiana Pacers were the best challenge Boston got all

989
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:52,120
Speaker 3: last year when they swept them and we ran Boston

990
00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:53,440
Speaker 3: off their home floor.

991
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:55,080
Speaker 2: Ye give me.

992
00:47:55,880 --> 00:48:00,440
Speaker 3: Absolutely destroyed them in that game and then played the

993
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:04,680
Speaker 3: rest of the series less healthy than any Boston opponent.

994
00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:07,480
Speaker 3: We had the best offense against Boston in the playoffs

995
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:10,480
Speaker 3: last year. We're the only team that consistently scored on them,

996
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:13,920
Speaker 3: even with no Donovan Mitchell for the back half the series,

997
00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 3: even with no Jared Allen the entire series. Like I

998
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:19,920
Speaker 3: feel like I'm taking crazy pills here, you know, Like

999
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:23,760
Speaker 3: we didn't have Darius Garland in Game five. We literally

1000
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:29,400
Speaker 3: were running kros We have Caroselaburton game five like, like

1001
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:34,320
Speaker 3: this team actually made Boston work really really hard for

1002
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:38,320
Speaker 3: that series win, despite being more depleted than just about anyone.

1003
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:43,839
Speaker 3: I think that the Two Bigs is the ultimate kind

1004
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:47,200
Speaker 3: of panacea for Boston ball, like as far as one

1005
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:50,759
Speaker 3: it can be found, because they you know the big

1006
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:54,200
Speaker 3: thing about Boston is they get rim pressure, They suck

1007
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:56,680
Speaker 3: you in, They kick it out for three, and the

1008
00:48:56,800 --> 00:48:59,520
Speaker 3: best way to do that is to keep to not

1009
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:01,799
Speaker 3: have to go three, you know, two on the ball.

1010
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:05,600
Speaker 3: And the Calves do a great job between switching and tagouts,

1011
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:09,320
Speaker 3: between just literally being able to cover ground where Evan

1012
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:12,319
Speaker 3: can stunt in to stop rim pressure and get out

1013
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:16,080
Speaker 3: and contest a three point shot. Don great at that too, Yes,

1014
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:19,000
Speaker 3: Jarrett can do that at a high level. You know,

1015
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 3: I think Boston's has levers to pull. It's not like

1016
00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:25,319
Speaker 3: the Calves don't have. You know, I think Boston would

1017
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:27,600
Speaker 3: absolutely be favored in a series because you know, they

1018
00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:30,200
Speaker 3: can work to get switches where you know, Darius or

1019
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:33,960
Speaker 3: Donovan or guarding Jalen or Jason. But like, if I'm

1020
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:38,760
Speaker 3: any team in the league, I'd rather die to Tatum

1021
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:44,000
Speaker 3: Iso mid range pull ups than to any other thing

1022
00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 3: that Boston does, you know, And I think the Calves

1023
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:50,880
Speaker 3: are best suited to bait Boston into their worst habits

1024
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:55,680
Speaker 3: and that might not get you through a series. But

1025
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:59,720
Speaker 3: like compared to all these other teams who like Boston

1026
00:49:59,719 --> 00:50:02,839
Speaker 3: can take away the best stuff they do, I don't

1027
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:05,759
Speaker 3: think that's the case for for Cleveland. You know, I

1028
00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:08,280
Speaker 3: think they're their size in the front court. They're actually

1029
00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:11,200
Speaker 3: the only team that's bigger whose size can really affect

1030
00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:13,279
Speaker 3: Boston in the front court because they don't just have

1031
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:15,919
Speaker 3: the one big that they can throw Porzingis on. They've

1032
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:19,879
Speaker 3: got Evan and like, Evan's gonna make Jason Tatum guard him. Yeah,

1033
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:22,600
Speaker 3: you know they can. They can attack the offensive glass.

1034
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:27,520
Speaker 3: They have tools in their toolkit and frankly, as great

1035
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:31,839
Speaker 3: as Drew holiday uh And and Derek White are at

1036
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:34,439
Speaker 3: the point of attack. I got to say, going from

1037
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:39,239
Speaker 3: the Orlando series where they had Jalen Suggs, that insane

1038
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:43,719
Speaker 3: bulldog guarding them, Boston felt easier. They are easier to

1039
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:48,239
Speaker 3: attack from the perimeter than a team like Orlando. And

1040
00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:50,919
Speaker 3: that's you know, Drew is just Drew does his best

1041
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:55,360
Speaker 3: against the bulky, strong guys, you know, like the change.

1042
00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:56,880
Speaker 3: You know, Donovan was able to get to the rim

1043
00:50:56,920 --> 00:51:00,760
Speaker 3: at will until he got hurt in that series. Darius

1044
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:03,839
Speaker 3: wasn't because Darius was like a shell of himself through

1045
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:06,360
Speaker 3: the back half of the year. But I think that,

1046
00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:10,080
Speaker 3: you know, it's actually not a bad matchup for them,

1047
00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:12,800
Speaker 3: even though you look at their offense comes from the

1048
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:15,719
Speaker 3: two great guards. Boston has two great defenders I think

1049
00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:18,880
Speaker 3: the things that make Derek White and Drew great. You know,

1050
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:22,400
Speaker 3: they're they're good defender. You know, they're ninetieth percentile defenders

1051
00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:25,760
Speaker 3: on Darius and Donovan, but they're not one hundredths percentile defenders.

1052
00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:28,560
Speaker 3: I do think that matters in a series where the

1053
00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:30,520
Speaker 3: margins are as thin as they are in the playoffs.

1054
00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:34,759
Speaker 1: Orlando is a defensive monster. I'm glad you brought that up.

1055
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 2: That is there.

1056
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:39,360
Speaker 1: They ran some of the ugliest offense in that series

1057
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:41,279
Speaker 1: that I've ever seen, and there are times where I'm like,

1058
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:42,279
Speaker 1: what are you guys doing?

1059
00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:46,280
Speaker 2: But their defense, there's no denying that they're they're.

1060
00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:49,399
Speaker 3: Physically just as the best guard defender in the league

1061
00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:50,600
Speaker 3: agree with.

1062
00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:54,360
Speaker 1: You, one hundred percent agree with you. They've got size, strength,

1063
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:56,520
Speaker 1: they're great at rebounding, they can switch, they do all

1064
00:51:56,560 --> 00:52:00,360
Speaker 1: this kind of stuff. The case you made against I

1065
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:01,800
Speaker 1: think makes a lot of sense in the sense that

1066
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:04,360
Speaker 1: like Kenny Atkinson's kind of the perfect guy for the

1067
00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:08,360
Speaker 1: job in terms of switching, containing scramming out of mismatches

1068
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:10,960
Speaker 1: on the back end, and just basically trying to bait

1069
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:13,080
Speaker 1: them into pull up jump shots. And like I do

1070
00:52:13,239 --> 00:52:17,080
Speaker 1: think Donovan Mitchell is capable of out executing Jason Tatum

1071
00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:19,400
Speaker 1: in a seven game series in the clutch. But I

1072
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:21,640
Speaker 1: think you're right. I think Boston would deserve to be favored.

1073
00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:24,960
Speaker 1: It's just that Cleveland is encroaching on that tier in

1074
00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:27,880
Speaker 1: a major way. Interestingly enough, I was pulling up, but

1075
00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:29,960
Speaker 1: I had to read a Draft Kings ad yesterday and

1076
00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:33,200
Speaker 1: they had the Calves as the second favorite to win

1077
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:35,799
Speaker 1: the NBA Cup. So I was like, huh, I want

1078
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:41,879
Speaker 1: to back into the hell yeah mans. So I wanted

1079
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:44,480
Speaker 1: to look at the title odds and they actually have

1080
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:46,759
Speaker 1: him tied for seventh right now with the Suns. I'm

1081
00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:49,720
Speaker 1: surprised by that. So they have the Thunder and Celtics

1082
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:52,200
Speaker 1: ahead of them to be expected, the Knicks are ahead

1083
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:54,360
Speaker 1: of them, the Nuggets are ahead of them, the MAVs

1084
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:55,839
Speaker 1: ahead of them, and the Timberwolves.

1085
00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:56,719
Speaker 2: Like, here's the thing.

1086
00:52:56,760 --> 00:52:59,239
Speaker 1: I'm a huge Anthony Edwards fan. I don't know, I

1087
00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:01,000
Speaker 1: don't know what you could have seen this year to

1088
00:53:01,040 --> 00:53:03,520
Speaker 1: make you think the Timberwolves are a bigger title threat

1089
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:05,720
Speaker 1: than Cleveland compared to the way Cleveland's been playing.

1090
00:53:06,160 --> 00:53:09,360
Speaker 3: Listen, man, you get I think, ultimately, here's what it

1091
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:12,680
Speaker 3: comes down to. You and I you know, I am

1092
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:15,480
Speaker 3: low on my grievance quote compared to the rest of

1093
00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:18,560
Speaker 3: the fan base on this because the reality is, they

1094
00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:22,080
Speaker 3: got embarrassed in a playoff series, and even though that

1095
00:53:22,160 --> 00:53:24,319
Speaker 3: was two years ago, even though they won a playoff series,

1096
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:28,400
Speaker 3: they haven't had that, no doubt, ask kicking of a

1097
00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:32,160
Speaker 3: playoff series yet, you know, because Orlando. And again I

1098
00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:34,880
Speaker 3: picked Cabs in seven against Orlando because I think Orlando

1099
00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:38,440
Speaker 3: is awesome. But the reality is if they had beaten

1100
00:53:38,560 --> 00:53:41,239
Speaker 3: Orlando in five, I'll bet those odds are different, you know.

1101
00:53:43,040 --> 00:53:45,200
Speaker 3: But they we have not seen this Cabs team go

1102
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:47,879
Speaker 3: up a level in the postseason yet. In fact, we've

1103
00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:51,600
Speaker 3: really only seen them under especially on their offense. We've

1104
00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:55,360
Speaker 3: only seen their offense go down in the postseason. And

1105
00:53:55,960 --> 00:53:58,560
Speaker 3: I understand that especially for a team that's not going

1106
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:00,640
Speaker 3: to be a public team like the Cap. You know,

1107
00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:03,400
Speaker 3: we're not in a glamour market like you kind of

1108
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:05,160
Speaker 3: have to go take it. You have to go take

1109
00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:09,480
Speaker 3: that that perception win, you know. So I think there

1110
00:54:09,560 --> 00:54:13,480
Speaker 3: will remain skepticism about the ceiling of this team until

1111
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:18,160
Speaker 3: we see more consistent dominance, you know. And like this

1112
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:21,120
Speaker 3: is what I was talking on our last podcast about

1113
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:25,200
Speaker 3: this where I feel like my expectations for this team

1114
00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:28,439
Speaker 3: in the most literal sense have not changed since the start,

1115
00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:31,600
Speaker 3: which is that I think that they they really should

1116
00:54:31,640 --> 00:54:34,080
Speaker 3: be a top two or three seed in the East,

1117
00:54:34,600 --> 00:54:36,320
Speaker 3: and I think they should really try to make a

1118
00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:38,600
Speaker 3: push towards the conference finals. That would be a successful

1119
00:54:38,640 --> 00:54:42,440
Speaker 3: season for me. That's still the same, except how I

1120
00:54:42,520 --> 00:54:44,719
Speaker 3: think each series should go on the road to that

1121
00:54:44,840 --> 00:54:49,400
Speaker 3: outcome those That's where I've changed. Where it's like instead

1122
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:51,439
Speaker 3: of you know, if you pull Philly in the first round,

1123
00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:53,399
Speaker 3: if you lock up the one or the two seed

1124
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:56,400
Speaker 3: and you pull Philly in the first round, maybe at

1125
00:54:56,440 --> 00:54:58,239
Speaker 3: the beginning of the year like just happy to win,

1126
00:54:58,520 --> 00:55:01,360
Speaker 3: where I'm like now, like that's a wounded team and

1127
00:55:01,640 --> 00:55:03,400
Speaker 3: I think they're a tier better than them. They need

1128
00:55:03,480 --> 00:55:05,920
Speaker 3: to win to kick their butt. Yep, yeah, they should

1129
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:09,239
Speaker 3: kick butt. They should beat these you know tier. You know,

1130
00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:11,239
Speaker 3: if if we're gonna pretend, if we're going to say

1131
00:55:11,239 --> 00:55:12,600
Speaker 3: the Cabs are kind of in a tier of their

1132
00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:15,080
Speaker 3: own right now, at least in the where the season

1133
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:18,719
Speaker 3: is right now, they certainly are, then they should be

1134
00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:21,920
Speaker 3: dominant of the teams and the tiers below them. Uh,

1135
00:55:22,080 --> 00:55:24,640
Speaker 3: they if they get to a conference finals show down

1136
00:55:24,680 --> 00:55:28,880
Speaker 3: with Boston, just hanging shouldn't be enough. You should make

1137
00:55:28,920 --> 00:55:32,280
Speaker 3: them sweat. Yeah, you should see six or seven game series.

1138
00:55:32,440 --> 00:55:35,120
Speaker 3: Yeah you need you need to have them really have

1139
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:38,680
Speaker 3: to be great to beat you like that. So, like

1140
00:55:38,840 --> 00:55:42,000
Speaker 3: it's even though the literal outcome isn't different, like I do,

1141
00:55:42,160 --> 00:55:43,560
Speaker 3: think expectations have changed.

1142
00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:48,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's it's fascinating because coming into the season,

1143
00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:52,800
Speaker 1: I had Boston, New York, Milwaukee, Philly as like this tier,

1144
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:55,600
Speaker 1: and then I had Cleveland, Orlando and Indiana as like

1145
00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:58,520
Speaker 1: this tier. And that's completely jumbled for me to start

1146
00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:01,520
Speaker 1: the year. Like to me, I think the Calves are

1147
00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:04,560
Speaker 1: clearly better basketball teams than Philly and Milwaukee, like I,

1148
00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:06,600
Speaker 1: like you said, I think they're just on a completely

1149
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:10,640
Speaker 1: different tier. The Knicks, I'm always like, brand new basketball team.

1150
00:56:10,680 --> 00:56:11,520
Speaker 1: Give them a lot of time.

1151
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:12,520
Speaker 2: You know, weird.

1152
00:56:12,680 --> 00:56:14,520
Speaker 3: They're a weird team that has to figure out who.

1153
00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:16,640
Speaker 1: They are exactly, So like, who the heck knows what's

1154
00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:18,000
Speaker 1: going on with them in the long run. But I

1155
00:56:18,080 --> 00:56:21,359
Speaker 1: think there's like a legitimate case to like definitively stay

1156
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:25,080
Speaker 1: Cleveland's the second best team in the East behind Boston,

1157
00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:27,839
Speaker 1: and that just was not how I felt going into

1158
00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:29,880
Speaker 1: the season. And if anything, it almost feels like a

1159
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:31,880
Speaker 1: different tier at this point. It feels like Boston and

1160
00:56:31,920 --> 00:56:34,320
Speaker 1: Cleveland and then there's the rest of the East and

1161
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:36,960
Speaker 1: so and even though it's been somewhat of a small

1162
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:40,160
Speaker 1: sample size, it's been there's been enough big wins. I mean,

1163
00:56:40,960 --> 00:56:43,239
Speaker 1: I don't think the Lakers are as good as Golden

1164
00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:45,239
Speaker 1: State to start this year, but I think Golden State

1165
00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:47,560
Speaker 1: and LA are two pretty good teams that didn't just

1166
00:56:47,640 --> 00:56:49,560
Speaker 1: go into Cleveland and get beat. They went into Cleveland

1167
00:56:49,560 --> 00:56:51,040
Speaker 1: and got humiliated.

1168
00:56:51,520 --> 00:56:53,080
Speaker 2: Like that is that is like.

1169
00:56:55,400 --> 00:56:58,640
Speaker 1: It's there's something special going on there. But Carter, I

1170
00:56:58,719 --> 00:57:01,480
Speaker 1: think you did an absolutely fat dealous job of educating

1171
00:57:01,520 --> 00:57:03,640
Speaker 1: our listeners on what it's been like being on this

1172
00:57:03,800 --> 00:57:05,560
Speaker 1: ride to start this year. Before we get out of here,

1173
00:57:05,600 --> 00:57:07,839
Speaker 1: why don't you tell everybody about the Chase Down Pod

1174
00:57:08,120 --> 00:57:09,479
Speaker 1: where they can find it and some of the stuff

1175
00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:10,600
Speaker 1: you and Justin have been working on.

1176
00:57:11,200 --> 00:57:14,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, so, you know, pretty simple Chase Down pod on Twitter.

1177
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:19,400
Speaker 3: We are you know, we're on the Cavs YouTube channel.

1178
00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:21,960
Speaker 3: We go live about twice a week on there, and

1179
00:57:22,040 --> 00:57:25,680
Speaker 3: you can obviously find us on whatever your preferred podcast platform.

1180
00:57:25,720 --> 00:57:27,280
Speaker 3: As yeah, we go twice week during the season and

1181
00:57:27,320 --> 00:57:30,520
Speaker 3: do a lot of immediate postgame reactions which is really fun.

1182
00:57:30,600 --> 00:57:32,960
Speaker 3: And yeah, it's it's been a lot of fun so

1183
00:57:33,040 --> 00:57:33,600
Speaker 3: far this year.

1184
00:57:34,320 --> 00:57:35,600
Speaker 2: Dude. That was awesome.

1185
00:57:35,880 --> 00:57:38,840
Speaker 1: Everybody head over to the Caves YouTube channel and subscribe

1186
00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:41,440
Speaker 1: to you guys can watch the Chase Down podcast.

1187
00:57:41,960 --> 00:57:43,480
Speaker 2: That is all we have for today.

1188
00:57:43,960 --> 00:57:46,520
Speaker 1: We're going to be back tomorrow morning with just a

1189
00:57:46,560 --> 00:57:48,720
Speaker 1: couple of game breakdowns from the Wednesday night slate, as

1190
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:51,320
Speaker 1: well as another episode of Temp's tape. As always, we

1191
00:57:51,400 --> 00:57:53,120
Speaker 1: sincerely appreciate you guys for supporting the show.

1192
00:57:53,160 --> 00:57:53,919
Speaker 2: We will see you then.

1193
00:57:55,840 --> 00:57:57,800
Speaker 3: The volume. What's up guys.

1194
00:57:57,840 --> 00:58:00,560
Speaker 1: As always, I appreciate you for listening to and supporting

1195
00:58:00,640 --> 00:58:03,240
Speaker 1: Hoops tonight. It would actually be really helpful for us

1196
00:58:03,240 --> 00:58:05,080
Speaker 1: if you guys would take a second and leave a

1197
00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:07,840
Speaker 1: rating and a review. As always, I appreciate you guys

1198
00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:09,400
Speaker 1: supporting us, but if you could take a minute to

1199
00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:11,200
Speaker 1: do that, I'd really appreciate it.