WEBVTT - TechStuff Classics: Abandonware 0:00:04.240 --> 0:00:07.200 Get in touch with technology with tech stuff from how 0:00:07.280 --> 0:00:14.319 stuffworks dot com. Hey there, it's tech stuff and this 0:00:14.360 --> 0:00:17.480 is Jonathan Strickland. And as I sit in this studio, 0:00:17.640 --> 0:00:20.439 it's nearly time for the holidays, and then I have 0:00:20.520 --> 0:00:24.280 a trip out to Cees. Everyone at HowStuffWorks dot com 0:00:24.320 --> 0:00:27.600 is working super hard and no one has time to 0:00:27.640 --> 0:00:30.280 record an episode with me. But rather than leave you 0:00:30.280 --> 0:00:33.519 guys without an episode, we're going to bring you another classic. 0:00:33.760 --> 0:00:37.000 In December twenty eleven, Chris Palette and I explored the 0:00:37.040 --> 0:00:41.560 world of abandonwear. That's the stuff that disappears into obscurity, 0:00:41.600 --> 0:00:44.360 whether people still need it or not. Check it out 0:00:47.560 --> 0:00:52.160 to today, we're going to talk about abandonwear. Yes, we've 0:00:52.200 --> 0:00:55.440 had requests to talk about abandonwaar and this is and 0:00:55.480 --> 0:00:57.480 we've talked about abandonwear in the past, Yeah, just not 0:00:57.960 --> 0:01:00.880 as a dedicated topic. Yeah, we've also talked about vaporware, 0:01:00.960 --> 0:01:04.559 which is a totally different thing, if you might wonder 0:01:04.600 --> 0:01:08.120 what the differences are. Vaporware is when a company has 0:01:08.240 --> 0:01:11.280 announced or information has leaked out that a company is 0:01:11.280 --> 0:01:13.919 working on a particular product, but that product never seems 0:01:13.959 --> 0:01:16.160 to actually go to market. Oh, I thought it was 0:01:16.200 --> 0:01:18.920 the kind of software that every once in a while, 0:01:18.920 --> 0:01:20.880 this just means you feel light headed. I've already got 0:01:20.880 --> 0:01:25.440 a headache. I've already got a headache. So that's different. 0:01:25.560 --> 0:01:29.360 I'll tell you what that means, and you'll like it 0:01:29.400 --> 0:01:33.080 because you like that kind of humor. But no, the 0:01:33.080 --> 0:01:37.399 the abandonwar is when a company has produced a piece 0:01:37.600 --> 0:01:40.280 of well product mainly, but we usually talk about it 0:01:40.280 --> 0:01:43.520 in terms of software. More frequently than not, we talk 0:01:43.560 --> 0:01:46.240 about in terms of games, although that's not the only 0:01:46.319 --> 0:01:49.920 kind of abandonwear. But a company produces this the the 0:01:51.400 --> 0:01:56.280 But then technology continues to evolve over time, and no, yeah, 0:01:56.320 --> 0:02:01.920 I know it's crazy, right really, so the things like computers, 0:02:01.680 --> 0:02:04.400 Let's say a computer gets so advanced that it can 0:02:04.400 --> 0:02:08.400 no longer run older software. Yeah, I'm aware of that. Yeah, 0:02:08.560 --> 0:02:10.679 where you get to a point where you know, if 0:02:10.760 --> 0:02:13.840 software has been produced before a certain point, your computer 0:02:13.919 --> 0:02:16.320 is not really able to run it anymore because things 0:02:16.320 --> 0:02:20.280 have changed so dramatically. And then companies will sort of 0:02:20.720 --> 0:02:25.960 stop supporting this old software that they produced years ago. Okay, 0:02:26.200 --> 0:02:29.360 so if they no longer provide any support or they've 0:02:29.360 --> 0:02:33.720 discontinued it, that's Abandonwhere if a company creates some software 0:02:33.760 --> 0:02:36.120 that is, you know, hits the market, and then that 0:02:36.200 --> 0:02:41.680 company ceases to exist. That software may be considered abandonwear 0:02:41.680 --> 0:02:44.200 because now there's no there's no place you can buy 0:02:44.200 --> 0:02:46.679 it anymore because the company that was in charge of 0:02:46.720 --> 0:02:50.040 it is gone. This can happen through an acquisition or 0:02:50.080 --> 0:02:53.440 a merger where certain divisions get dissolved or merged into 0:02:53.440 --> 0:02:56.400 other divisions and as a result, pieces of software no 0:02:56.480 --> 0:03:02.000 longer have a kind of a shepherd really to keep 0:03:02.040 --> 0:03:05.760 the software going. So what happens to that software? What 0:03:05.760 --> 0:03:08.560 happens if you want to have access to that software? 0:03:08.600 --> 0:03:10.720 How can you do it? Are there legal ways of 0:03:10.760 --> 0:03:15.400 getting at it? And it's a little complicated. Yeah, the 0:03:16.560 --> 0:03:18.880 in the context we brought it up in before, we 0:03:18.880 --> 0:03:23.760 were talking about the multiple machine multiple arcade machine emulator, Mame, 0:03:25.000 --> 0:03:30.440 you coax the blues right out of the horn. Sorry, mame, Yeah, 0:03:30.440 --> 0:03:36.560 that's anti name. Yes a t I yes, go INTI yes. 0:03:37.120 --> 0:03:40.160 So yeah, mame is for those of you who don't know, 0:03:40.480 --> 0:03:45.120 basically a way of running the programs that old arcade 0:03:45.320 --> 0:03:48.840 well actually not necessarily old that arcade machines would run 0:03:49.400 --> 0:03:52.640 in their cabinets on a home computer. Right now, keep 0:03:52.680 --> 0:03:56.680 in mind that arcade machines, the software for those machines 0:03:57.000 --> 0:04:00.640 was built specifically for the hardware inside the r cade machine. 0:04:00.880 --> 0:04:03.640 You wouldn't open up an arcade cabinet and find a 0:04:05.040 --> 0:04:07.520 computer in there, right, It wouldn't look like a computer. 0:04:07.800 --> 0:04:09.760 It would look like a whole bunch of different chips 0:04:09.840 --> 0:04:18.320 wired together. Yeah. Yeah, And so it's hardwired into the hardware. 0:04:18.640 --> 0:04:20.880 You know, you don't You don't put a disc in, 0:04:21.200 --> 0:04:23.080 at least not most arcade games. I know there are 0:04:23.120 --> 0:04:24.640 a few that run on laser disc, but that's not 0:04:24.680 --> 0:04:27.600 what we're talking about here. We're talking about like it's 0:04:27.760 --> 0:04:31.000 reading directly from a chep. A similar example would be 0:04:31.040 --> 0:04:34.960 when you if you ever played console games that used cartridges. Yeah, 0:04:35.000 --> 0:04:38.279 the cartridge had the rom on it, right, and the 0:04:38.440 --> 0:04:42.520 console just had the technology to read the realm and 0:04:42.600 --> 0:04:46.000 then translate that into a game. So for a computer, 0:04:46.240 --> 0:04:49.080 you would have to create an emulator, something that could 0:04:49.320 --> 0:04:52.800 create an environment similar to the hardware that you would 0:04:52.800 --> 0:04:55.640 find inside that arcade machine in order for you to 0:04:55.720 --> 0:04:59.680 run the realm on a computer. And sometimes this would 0:04:59.720 --> 0:05:03.480 work well and you would have a pretty similar experience 0:05:03.600 --> 0:05:05.880 as to if you were sitting in front of an 0:05:05.960 --> 0:05:08.359 arcade machine and playing it, and in some cases it 0:05:08.360 --> 0:05:11.240 doesn't work so well because the computer's architecture and the 0:05:11.440 --> 0:05:16.359 arcade architecture are so different that the game stutters or 0:05:16.440 --> 0:05:20.479 just runs really slowly. Yeah, so then you have the 0:05:20.600 --> 0:05:25.880 question you're able to run this software and on your 0:05:25.920 --> 0:05:30.960 home computer and you have something like, say Kangaroo, and 0:05:31.000 --> 0:05:33.080 you want to play Kangaroo on your home computer, and 0:05:33.120 --> 0:05:37.120 you go, wait a minute, Atari still exists. I mean, 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:39.760 truth is it's a different Atari technically, but they own 0:05:40.560 --> 0:05:44.160 the copyright for that stuff. Now you know, that's one thing. 0:05:44.600 --> 0:05:48.799 Then on the other hand, you have something like say Defender, 0:05:49.279 --> 0:05:53.080 and then you'd say, okay, well who owns the stuff 0:05:53.080 --> 0:05:58.119 that Williams used to make or Robotron for that matter. Okay, 0:05:58.160 --> 0:06:03.680 so that's one version. My other example was going to 0:06:03.720 --> 0:06:05.919 be I was going to ask you if you thought 0:06:05.920 --> 0:06:10.400 that if I brought my copy of Deluxe Video Construction 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:13.960 Set to Electronic Arts for Miamiga, do you think they'd 0:06:13.960 --> 0:06:17.839 support it? Yeah? Probably not, or SimAnt for that matter, 0:06:17.880 --> 0:06:20.200 from Maxis before it was acquired by Electronic Arts. I 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:22.640 don't think so. But the thing is, the question is 0:06:22.880 --> 0:06:24.919 you know I can legally use that software because I 0:06:24.960 --> 0:06:28.320 still own the discs for SimAnt, even though I never 0:06:28.360 --> 0:06:30.320 really had enough memory in my Amiga to run it, 0:06:30.400 --> 0:06:33.159 you wouldn't be able to distribute it. I can't distribute it, 0:06:33.200 --> 0:06:36.479 but I legally can run that all I want to. Now, 0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:47.159 for something like Maime that in some cases the manufacturer 0:06:47.720 --> 0:06:51.000 is still around, in some cases it's a different version 0:06:51.040 --> 0:06:53.320 of the manufacturer who legally owns the copyright, and in 0:06:53.360 --> 0:06:56.680 other cases the manufacturer is gone and it's hard to 0:06:56.760 --> 0:07:01.760 identify who, if anybody, owns the copyright this actually is. 0:07:02.760 --> 0:07:06.800 It presents some seriously thorny legal issues, right, So let's 0:07:07.120 --> 0:07:10.720 clear things up a little bit here. If there is 0:07:10.800 --> 0:07:15.280 an old piece of software that's available online and there 0:07:15.320 --> 0:07:19.960 hasn't been any express permission from the copyright holder that 0:07:19.960 --> 0:07:25.480 that software can be distributed, distributing that software is illegal. Yes, 0:07:25.960 --> 0:07:29.680 it violates copyright. Now, that being said, copyright is one 0:07:29.680 --> 0:07:33.520 of those things that only works if you exercise your 0:07:33.640 --> 0:07:37.360 right to the copyright. In other words, the copyright owner 0:07:37.400 --> 0:07:41.840 would have to pursue action against anyone distributing that content. 0:07:42.480 --> 0:07:45.559 So if you are if you come across an old 0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:49.920 game from the late eighties, let's say, and it's an 0:07:49.920 --> 0:07:53.000 old doss based game on from the late eighties, and 0:07:53.040 --> 0:07:55.720 you wanted to You love this game and you want 0:07:55.760 --> 0:07:59.119 other people to explore this game and experience this game, 0:07:59.400 --> 0:08:01.800 and there is no way to buy the game because 0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:05.720 the game, the company doesn't exist, or the company still 0:08:05.720 --> 0:08:09.680 exists but no longer markets this gamer supports it. Then 0:08:10.040 --> 0:08:12.440 you might feel, well, what's the harm? I mean, no 0:08:12.480 --> 0:08:15.240 one's no one's trying to make money off of this. 0:08:15.440 --> 0:08:17.880 No one is losing money off of this because there's 0:08:17.880 --> 0:08:20.680 no way to legitimately get a hold of this. Why 0:08:20.800 --> 0:08:23.880 is there an issue? And it's all because of that copyright, 0:08:23.960 --> 0:08:27.960 and the copyright holder may choose to not pursue action. 0:08:29.000 --> 0:08:31.560 It doesn't mean that it's legal. It just means the 0:08:31.560 --> 0:08:35.640 copyright holder is allowing that material to be distributed. Yeah, 0:08:35.640 --> 0:08:37.600 I said, wouldn't you know it? I picked a bad 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:42.280 example for a video game. It was just Kangaroo really Atari. 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:44.920 It was distributed by Atari, but actually it was a 0:08:44.920 --> 0:08:49.000 product by Sun Electronics. Did you wear like little boxing 0:08:49.000 --> 0:08:50.720 gloves in that game and you had to box stuff 0:08:50.760 --> 0:08:53.400 as a kangaroo? Yes, I vaguely remember playing that game. 0:08:53.520 --> 0:08:57.000 It was very Donkey Kong like because you climbed up 0:08:57.080 --> 0:09:00.160 to the top and had to find your Joey, you know, 0:09:00.200 --> 0:09:05.320 the baby kangaroo and so anyhow, so the substitute centipede 0:09:05.320 --> 0:09:08.040 for what I said before getting back to copyrights. Now, 0:09:08.120 --> 0:09:11.560 a copyright, the term of a copyright right now, lasts 0:09:11.640 --> 0:09:14.000 for in the United States, lasts for seventy five years 0:09:14.080 --> 0:09:17.760 from the creation of the work, unless it's a work 0:09:17.800 --> 0:09:21.840 for hire, right years, right, and so yeah, a work 0:09:22.000 --> 0:09:24.120 hire would be last even longer, and most of these, 0:09:24.160 --> 0:09:26.040 I guess would be considered work for which is why 0:09:26.040 --> 0:09:28.000 I brought it up. That's a good point. So in 0:09:28.040 --> 0:09:30.800 other words, this is software that is going to be 0:09:31.000 --> 0:09:35.040 is still protected by copyright and will be for pretty 0:09:35.120 --> 0:09:37.760 much our lifetime, right, I mean, some of us might 0:09:37.800 --> 0:09:41.360 get really lucky, but maybe the Singularity will hit and 0:09:41.400 --> 0:09:44.560 it won't that won't be a problem. But at that point, 0:09:44.600 --> 0:09:46.440 who's playing video games? Well, if you wanted to play 0:09:46.440 --> 0:09:49.680 Space War, you're probably in fairly decent shape because that 0:09:49.760 --> 0:09:52.800 was created so much earlier than this stuff. Yeah, the 0:09:53.040 --> 0:09:56.240 games that were created in the eighties, even our our 0:09:56.280 --> 0:10:01.080 younger listeners would have problems with this all the way through. Yes, 0:10:01.120 --> 0:10:06.680 so lifetimes. So by legal definition, strictly going by that, 0:10:06.760 --> 0:10:11.760 it is not there's no real recourse unless the copyright 0:10:11.800 --> 0:10:17.439 holder gives permission for distribution or releases the copyright into 0:10:17.520 --> 0:10:21.320 the public domain. Yes. Now at that point, you know 0:10:21.360 --> 0:10:25.439 it's weird to call the software abandonwear because abandonwear really 0:10:25.559 --> 0:10:30.679 means this software that doesn't have really any support or 0:10:31.520 --> 0:10:37.640 access through legitimate channels. So it's not like it's abandonwear 0:10:37.640 --> 0:10:39.680 at that point. It's just public domain work. So it 0:10:39.679 --> 0:10:43.320 becomes more like shareware in a way. Sure, but a 0:10:43.360 --> 0:10:47.400 copyright holder does have that option, and in some cases 0:10:47.679 --> 0:10:51.760 you see companies take advantage of old, old, old libraries 0:10:51.800 --> 0:10:55.600 of content and repackage them and market them again, which 0:10:55.640 --> 0:10:59.920 would mean that you wouldn't want to host those abandoned 0:11:00.240 --> 0:11:04.400 games on your site, for example, because they are actually 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:08.319 making money from this old content and there are legitimate 0:11:08.360 --> 0:11:10.080 ways to get hold of it. A good example of 0:11:10.120 --> 0:11:14.120 that as Atari, because you've got the old Atari games 0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:18.439 that get repackaged occasionally as an app for a smartphone 0:11:18.520 --> 0:11:22.040 or tablet device. Yea. Also you get some console games 0:11:22.040 --> 0:11:24.000 that will occasionally come out they'll be like the best 0:11:24.080 --> 0:11:27.319 of and it'll be whatever the old company was. I 0:11:27.440 --> 0:11:29.000 like you can even get a version of the Atari 0:11:29.000 --> 0:11:31.439 twenty six hundred if you really want it. Yeah, but 0:11:31.600 --> 0:11:35.000 that's the oh new one. They're making new ones now? 0:11:35.400 --> 0:11:39.120 Is that on think Geek? I'm not sure the Dreamcast was. 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:42.800 Somebody told me recently that they saw a new quote 0:11:42.880 --> 0:11:46.280 unquote new Atari twenty six hundred packaged with some of 0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:51.960 the early games. Wow, that's basically that's the whole retro thing. Yeah, 0:11:51.960 --> 0:11:56.000 but there there are hundreds and hundreds of computer titles, 0:11:56.320 --> 0:12:01.840 PC titles, Windows titles, DASS based titles even that will 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:06.679 probably never re emerge, And so the question comes, well, 0:12:06.800 --> 0:12:09.199 what's the best way of handling this. There are a 0:12:09.240 --> 0:12:12.839 lot of sites out there that are dedicated to abandonwear 0:12:13.280 --> 0:12:17.360 and these sites are the really the ones that are 0:12:17.400 --> 0:12:20.880 more legitimate And I use the phrase loosely because again 0:12:20.920 --> 0:12:23.480 we're talking about violating copyright one way or the other. 0:12:24.000 --> 0:12:27.480 But the ones that are more concerned with offering people 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:30.319 the chance to play games that are the equivalent to 0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:34.920 being out of print, yes, otherwise unavailable. They're very much 0:12:34.960 --> 0:12:40.120 about not hosting what are also called wares. Whares would 0:12:40.120 --> 0:12:44.400 be kinds of software that's essentially pirated or duplicated. That's 0:12:44.640 --> 0:12:47.480 readily available on the market today. Yeah, basically the copy 0:12:47.520 --> 0:12:50.240 protection has been cracked. Yeah, and you can use it. 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:52.959 You know, when I say freely, I don't mean you're 0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:56.880 allowed to use it. I mean they're on anse code 0:12:57.080 --> 0:13:00.880 to do it. So, but the more the more legitimate 0:13:00.920 --> 0:13:04.839 abandonware sites will only host games that you cannot get 0:13:05.240 --> 0:13:07.640 through any other means unless you were to find like 0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:11.160 someone selling an old copy. But you know, you wouldn't 0:13:11.160 --> 0:13:13.600 be able to go to the publisher and buy it 0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:18.600 because sometimes the publisher doesn't even exist. Well, there are 0:13:18.640 --> 0:13:21.079 there are people out there who in some of them 0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:24.280 are content creators, who say there should be a more 0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:29.360 streamlined way too for companies to release abandon wear so 0:13:29.400 --> 0:13:34.520 that there isn't this, uh, this legal barrier, especially considering 0:13:34.520 --> 0:13:37.760 the fact that software changes much more rapidly than say print. 0:13:38.640 --> 0:13:42.320 And one of them is Greg Costickian. Now do you 0:13:42.360 --> 0:13:44.719 know who? Have you ever heard of? Greg Costickian. He's 0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:47.480 a He's a game designer who designs not just computer games, 0:13:47.480 --> 0:13:50.800 but also role playing games. His name is really familiar 0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:53.160 to me, and I'm gonna go ah as soon as 0:13:53.200 --> 0:13:55.640 you say, well, he's He's designed a lot of stuff, 0:13:55.679 --> 0:13:59.200 most of it is kind of has a has sort 0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:04.880 of a sitturical or otherwise humorous slant to it. For example, 0:14:04.960 --> 0:14:08.320 he created an role playing game called tuone back in 0:14:08.400 --> 0:14:11.960 nineteen eighty four where you played as a cartoon character 0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:15.960 within a cartoon episode. Every single adventure was modeled after 0:14:16.120 --> 0:14:20.560 the idea of a seven minute cartoon episode, and you 0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:23.600 would have the capabilities of a cartoon character, and you'd 0:14:23.600 --> 0:14:26.840 have friends and enemies within the cartoon, and you could 0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:29.600 do these outlandish things. It was hilarious. He also created 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:32.720 a game called Paranoia, which was all about a post 0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:39.040 apocalyptic society where you live in a essentially like a 0:14:39.080 --> 0:14:43.080 biodome kind of thing, and a computer controls everything. But 0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:46.640 the computer is crazy and paranoid and thinks everyone is 0:14:46.680 --> 0:14:48.720 out to get him, and pretty much everyone is out 0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:52.120 to get him. And then but anyway, the whole just because, 0:14:52.320 --> 0:14:53.840 all right, the whole purpose of the game was to 0:14:53.840 --> 0:14:56.600 create this idea of paranoia. Well, this guy, who created 0:14:56.640 --> 0:15:01.320 several different computer games as well, said that I actually 0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:04.240 have a quote. Software is about as ephemeral as you 0:15:04.280 --> 0:15:08.680 can get, yet preserving it is essential. Illegal abandonedwar sites 0:15:08.720 --> 0:15:12.200 are providing a critical service to game designers and scholars 0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:16.120 and gaming enthusiasts. They do, not, however, provide a lasting 0:15:16.160 --> 0:15:20.239 and satisfactory solution to the problem because they are illegal. 0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:24.120 So he was maintaining the point of these old games 0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:28.320 that exist are important, and they are important culturally because 0:15:28.680 --> 0:15:31.280 some of them were what helped usher in the era 0:15:31.400 --> 0:15:33.880 of personal computers in the first place. I mean, you know, 0:15:33.920 --> 0:15:37.440 personal computers were great for productivity, but there's no denying 0:15:37.520 --> 0:15:41.200 that video games. Computer games really drove the industry as well. 0:15:42.040 --> 0:15:46.440 And as the technology advances, our ability to access those 0:15:46.480 --> 0:15:49.480 old games decreases, and he says that's a shame. There 0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:52.280 should be a way to preserve that. And also, as 0:15:52.280 --> 0:15:55.080 he points out game designers, you know, some of these 0:15:55.120 --> 0:15:58.680 old games are very primitive when it comes to the 0:15:58.720 --> 0:16:01.960 graphics or the sound, but a lot of them had 0:16:02.560 --> 0:16:08.000 very innovative gameplay or very compelling storylines and are great 0:16:08.120 --> 0:16:11.840 lessons for game designers to learn from. Sure, you know, 0:16:12.040 --> 0:16:15.240 I would argue the Old Ultimate series, for example, is 0:16:15.440 --> 0:16:19.000 a very valuable series for people who want to create 0:16:20.240 --> 0:16:23.920 a storyline that spans several episodes and has a very 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:28.520 kind of deep and immersive quality to it. Now, I 0:16:28.760 --> 0:16:32.600 also add that the Ultimate series has regularly been released 0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:36.600 in packages where you could buy it legitimately, So don't 0:16:36.600 --> 0:16:38.640 go out there and start pirating games. Look and make 0:16:38.680 --> 0:16:42.600 sure first before make sure there's a legitimate way of 0:16:42.640 --> 0:16:45.520 getting it, and go that way before ever going with 0:16:45.560 --> 0:16:52.120 abandonwar route. But yeah, as a producer of games, he 0:16:52.160 --> 0:16:54.600 was pointing out that this is a valuable service that 0:16:54.680 --> 0:16:58.840 abandonwear sites are giving us. That without it, we would 0:16:58.920 --> 0:17:03.560 lose these games. And you know, unless some company was like, hey, 0:17:04.240 --> 0:17:06.679 we need to roll out another product or we're not 0:17:06.680 --> 0:17:09.480 going to hit our revenue this year, what titles do 0:17:09.520 --> 0:17:11.919 we have in the vault that we could package together 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:14.960 hastily and then shove out the door. And occasionally you 0:17:15.000 --> 0:17:17.439 see that happen. Well, it would be nice if some 0:17:17.480 --> 0:17:19.560 of the people who own the copyrights to these would 0:17:19.640 --> 0:17:25.000 release these these programs in some form. You know, the 0:17:25.000 --> 0:17:29.520 the app stores for the mobile devices have proven that, 0:17:30.359 --> 0:17:34.800 you know, even software that costs one or two dollars 0:17:34.880 --> 0:17:37.119 for a copy of it can still make a decent 0:17:37.160 --> 0:17:40.000 amount of money. And you know, some of these titles 0:17:40.480 --> 0:17:43.760 are languishing an obscurity when you know people might really 0:17:43.760 --> 0:17:46.760 be willing to pay one, two, five dollars for an 0:17:46.800 --> 0:17:48.680 opportunity to play it again. It's not really a lot 0:17:48.720 --> 0:17:51.960 of money for most people, and they might relish the 0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:54.439 opportunity to give it another shot. I think we have 0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:58.240 the opportunity to actually see that happen now because digital 0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:02.199 distribution is a reality. Yeah, right, Like Chris and I 0:18:02.200 --> 0:18:04.119 can both remember a time where you would go to 0:18:04.200 --> 0:18:07.160 your local computer store or electronics store and there would 0:18:07.240 --> 0:18:11.680 always be that bin of the old games that were 0:18:12.640 --> 0:18:15.840 for three or four generations behind the current stuff that's 0:18:15.960 --> 0:18:18.080 up on the shelves, and you would sort through that 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:19.720 bin and just look to see if there were any 0:18:19.800 --> 0:18:22.200 hidden gems in there, and then you find something like oh, 0:18:22.240 --> 0:18:24.280 I always wanted to play that, and you pick it up, 0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:26.399 and you know, you might get a copy of Civilization 0:18:26.520 --> 0:18:28.239 that way. But that was back in the old day 0:18:28.280 --> 0:18:31.040 where you would get like the floppy discs I was 0:18:31.160 --> 0:18:35.600 thinking you were talking about during the video game console crash, 0:18:35.680 --> 0:18:39.560 when you would go into your corner drug store and 0:18:39.560 --> 0:18:42.840 there would be a bin of really horrible Atari cartridges 0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:46.000 for you know, a dollar, say, the same sort of 0:18:46.040 --> 0:18:48.639 thing where they were just unloading their inventory. Yeah, but 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:52.600 those days are you know, pretty much disappearing because you 0:18:52.680 --> 0:18:55.840 get to digital distribution, you get to the era of 0:18:55.880 --> 0:18:59.639 the CD really started to decrease it, but then digital 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:02.280 district has has taken a big hit on it too. 0:19:02.680 --> 0:19:05.560 But that also gives the opportunity for companies to put 0:19:05.600 --> 0:19:09.359 potentially put up old titles for you know, like the 0:19:09.400 --> 0:19:11.600 same price that you would have for an app for 0:19:12.040 --> 0:19:16.040 a smartphone. So let's say that you throw up a mule, 0:19:16.520 --> 0:19:20.560 the old mule game or ARCon oh ar Con, Yeah, 0:19:20.640 --> 0:19:25.520 put those old populous populous, yes, put these old games 0:19:25.600 --> 0:19:29.679 up on or battle chess, these old games up so 0:19:29.720 --> 0:19:31.840 that you can buy them for like ninety nine cents 0:19:31.880 --> 0:19:35.000 or whatever. And and you know, maybe package it with 0:19:35.000 --> 0:19:37.520 a free emulator if you need it, because some of 0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:40.080 these old games will not run on your current system 0:19:40.119 --> 0:19:43.480 unless first put through an emulator. I have old machines 0:19:43.560 --> 0:19:46.320 for strictly that purpose. And before before you write in 0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:48.359 and say, you know, why do you want people to 0:19:48.359 --> 0:19:51.680 spend this money, this property should be free, Well that's 0:19:51.720 --> 0:19:53.520 an option too. It would be really cool if they 0:19:53.840 --> 0:19:59.120 if these companies were released these games into the public domain. However, 0:19:59.520 --> 0:20:04.760 I think they might have more incentive if they charged 0:20:04.800 --> 0:20:07.560 a small price and then they would get something in 0:20:07.600 --> 0:20:10.200 return for it. It's sort of like the Chris Anderson's 0:20:10.200 --> 0:20:14.119 long tail and the online stores versus the brick and 0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:17.040 mortar stores. I mean, if you put that up for 0:20:17.119 --> 0:20:21.480 digital distribution, it could stay there virtually forever. Yeah, you're 0:20:21.560 --> 0:20:23.439 still going to be a handful of people that are 0:20:23.480 --> 0:20:25.800 willing to fork over a couple bucks for it. Yeah, 0:20:25.840 --> 0:20:29.680 And I think I think that solution really provides an 0:20:29.720 --> 0:20:33.679 elegant approach to this complicated issue because you've got for 0:20:33.760 --> 0:20:37.480 one thing, you know, it gives an incentive to these 0:20:37.520 --> 0:20:40.560 companies to share this old stuff that you can't otherwise 0:20:40.600 --> 0:20:44.320 get and people can relive like that moment from their 0:20:44.400 --> 0:20:46.800 childhood when they played this one game that they loved 0:20:46.840 --> 0:20:50.600 and now they can't they can't get it anymore. It 0:20:50.640 --> 0:20:54.200 also gives the the you know, it gives the fans 0:20:54.240 --> 0:20:58.600 what they want. It's not prohibitively expensive if you go 0:20:58.680 --> 0:21:01.160 with this this micro Paine meant kind of app approach. 0:21:02.359 --> 0:21:06.280 And also it tells companies what people are interested in. 0:21:06.640 --> 0:21:10.240 If you were to create a section of your site, 0:21:10.280 --> 0:21:14.960 for example, that hosted the old titles for cheap Purchase, 0:21:15.280 --> 0:21:17.080 and you saw that one of those titles was getting 0:21:17.160 --> 0:21:19.560 hit like crazy. People were just buying it up. You 0:21:19.640 --> 0:21:24.240 might think, you know, we could probably do a follow up, like, 0:21:24.359 --> 0:21:26.960 just do an incredible follow up that is based on 0:21:27.040 --> 0:21:30.240 the same premise of this original game, maybe not a remake, 0:21:30.320 --> 0:21:34.320 but even perhaps a long awaited sequel and clean up, 0:21:34.320 --> 0:21:36.439 because we didn't realize there was this interest in this 0:21:36.480 --> 0:21:39.359 old title that we owned. Now, this does not solve 0:21:39.400 --> 0:21:43.040 the problem for those titles where the ownership is up 0:21:43.280 --> 0:21:46.040 in the air, like no one knows who owns this anymore. 0:21:46.960 --> 0:21:49.000 That's still you're gonna you're still going to have that 0:21:49.040 --> 0:21:52.400 problem where if there's a title where you're not really 0:21:52.440 --> 0:21:54.520 sure this is the is the copyright holder of the 0:21:54.520 --> 0:21:57.159 guy who made it? Is it this other company? Is 0:21:57.200 --> 0:21:59.560 it a company that bought you know, bought a company 0:21:59.600 --> 0:22:02.280 that bought a company that bought a company. That's where 0:22:02.280 --> 0:22:05.960 you start getting to issues where these games may be 0:22:06.119 --> 0:22:10.520 hopelessly mired in red tape. That's just until you figure 0:22:10.560 --> 0:22:13.159 out who is the owner of that copyright and who 0:22:13.200 --> 0:22:17.080 has the authority to do this, it'll never happen. You know. 0:22:17.200 --> 0:22:19.000 The abandoned weear approach is pretty much the only way 0:22:19.040 --> 0:22:21.640 you're going to get hold of those games, and it's 0:22:21.720 --> 0:22:25.439 not a legitimate way. Yeah, yeah, now, okay, this is 0:22:25.600 --> 0:22:28.280 from the perspective of the law. I'm sorry I shouldn't 0:22:28.280 --> 0:22:30.640 say that, because sometimes I'm like, hey, you know what, 0:22:30.760 --> 0:22:32.840 I love that game. I bought that game, I played 0:22:32.840 --> 0:22:34.440 that game. There's no way for me to get it, 0:22:34.480 --> 0:22:38.840 and my sense of entitlement is crying out. Well, this 0:22:38.880 --> 0:22:45.680 is where things get interesting. Let's say you have an 0:22:45.680 --> 0:22:50.159 old Atari twenty six hundred and you bought a copy 0:22:50.200 --> 0:22:54.120 of Yards Revenge, and you have the machine, and you've 0:22:54.119 --> 0:22:58.160 got the game. It's in your basement, it's in a box, 0:22:58.160 --> 0:23:01.639 but you got it. Yeah, it's in storage. Unfortunately the 0:23:01.680 --> 0:23:04.600 twenty six hundred doesn't work anymore, or you don't have 0:23:04.640 --> 0:23:08.000 an adapter. Yeah, and you really can't play because the 0:23:08.040 --> 0:23:10.280 machine's dead. But I know, hey, it's a museum piece, 0:23:10.800 --> 0:23:12.879 so you hold on to it, and then you find 0:23:12.960 --> 0:23:16.359 an emulator for your computer with yours Revenge where you 0:23:16.400 --> 0:23:18.560 can play the Atari twenty six hundred version of it. 0:23:19.840 --> 0:23:23.520 The thing is from what I understand. Again, keep in mind, 0:23:23.560 --> 0:23:26.720 I'm not a lawyer, but theoretically, from what I understand, 0:23:27.160 --> 0:23:29.560 you're entitled to play that because you have a copy 0:23:29.600 --> 0:23:32.040 of the game. You already paid for it, You have 0:23:32.160 --> 0:23:34.480 a copy of the game in your possession, you're legally 0:23:34.600 --> 0:23:37.440 entitled to play it. Because the reason I get this 0:23:37.520 --> 0:23:40.960 is from the disclaimers on the main sites. They say 0:23:41.000 --> 0:23:43.919 that if you have a copy of the ROMs basically, 0:23:43.920 --> 0:23:45.960 if you have the guts of the arcade machine, yeah, 0:23:46.000 --> 0:23:49.160