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Speaker 1: Get in touch with technology with tech stuff from how

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Speaker 1: stuffworks dot com. Hey there, it's tech stuff and this

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Speaker 1: is Jonathan Strickland. And as I sit in this studio,

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Speaker 1: it's nearly time for the holidays, and then I have

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Speaker 1: a trip out to Cees. Everyone at HowStuffWorks dot com

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Speaker 1: is working super hard and no one has time to

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Speaker 1: record an episode with me. But rather than leave you

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Speaker 1: guys without an episode, we're going to bring you another classic.

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Speaker 1: In December twenty eleven, Chris Palette and I explored the

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Speaker 1: world of abandonwear. That's the stuff that disappears into obscurity,

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Speaker 1: whether people still need it or not. Check it out

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Speaker 1: to today, we're going to talk about abandonwear. Yes, we've

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Speaker 1: had requests to talk about abandonwaar and this is and

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Speaker 1: we've talked about abandonwear in the past, Yeah, just not

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Speaker 1: as a dedicated topic. Yeah, we've also talked about vaporware,

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Speaker 1: which is a totally different thing, if you might wonder

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Speaker 1: what the differences are. Vaporware is when a company has

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Speaker 1: announced or information has leaked out that a company is

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Speaker 1: working on a particular product, but that product never seems

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Speaker 1: to actually go to market. Oh, I thought it was

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Speaker 1: the kind of software that every once in a while,

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Speaker 1: this just means you feel light headed. I've already got

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Speaker 1: a headache. I've already got a headache. So that's different.

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you what that means, and you'll like it

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Speaker 1: because you like that kind of humor. But no, the

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Speaker 1: the abandonwar is when a company has produced a piece

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Speaker 1: of well product mainly, but we usually talk about it

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Speaker 1: in terms of software. More frequently than not, we talk

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Speaker 1: about in terms of games, although that's not the only

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Speaker 1: kind of abandonwear. But a company produces this the the

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Speaker 1: But then technology continues to evolve over time, and no, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I know it's crazy, right really, so the things like computers,

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Speaker 1: Let's say a computer gets so advanced that it can

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Speaker 1: no longer run older software. Yeah, I'm aware of that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: where you get to a point where you know, if

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Speaker 1: software has been produced before a certain point, your computer

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Speaker 1: is not really able to run it anymore because things

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Speaker 1: have changed so dramatically. And then companies will sort of

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Speaker 1: stop supporting this old software that they produced years ago. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so if they no longer provide any support or they've

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Speaker 1: discontinued it, that's Abandonwhere if a company creates some software

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Speaker 1: that is, you know, hits the market, and then that

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Speaker 1: company ceases to exist. That software may be considered abandonwear

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Speaker 1: because now there's no there's no place you can buy

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Speaker 1: it anymore because the company that was in charge of

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Speaker 1: it is gone. This can happen through an acquisition or

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Speaker 1: a merger where certain divisions get dissolved or merged into

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Speaker 1: other divisions and as a result, pieces of software no

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Speaker 1: longer have a kind of a shepherd really to keep

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Speaker 1: the software going. So what happens to that software? What

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Speaker 1: happens if you want to have access to that software?

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Speaker 1: How can you do it? Are there legal ways of

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Speaker 1: getting at it? And it's a little complicated. Yeah, the

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Speaker 1: in the context we brought it up in before, we

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Speaker 1: were talking about the multiple machine multiple arcade machine emulator, Mame,

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Speaker 1: you coax the blues right out of the horn. Sorry, mame, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's anti name. Yes a t I yes, go INTI yes.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, mame is for those of you who don't know,

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Speaker 1: basically a way of running the programs that old arcade

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Speaker 1: well actually not necessarily old that arcade machines would run

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Speaker 1: in their cabinets on a home computer. Right now, keep

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Speaker 1: in mind that arcade machines, the software for those machines

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Speaker 1: was built specifically for the hardware inside the r cade machine.

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Speaker 1: You wouldn't open up an arcade cabinet and find a

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Speaker 1: computer in there, right, It wouldn't look like a computer.

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Speaker 1: It would look like a whole bunch of different chips

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Speaker 1: wired together. Yeah. Yeah, And so it's hardwired into the hardware.

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Speaker 1: You know, you don't You don't put a disc in,

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Speaker 1: at least not most arcade games. I know there are

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Speaker 1: a few that run on laser disc, but that's not

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Speaker 1: what we're talking about here. We're talking about like it's

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Speaker 1: reading directly from a chep. A similar example would be

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Speaker 1: when you if you ever played console games that used cartridges. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the cartridge had the rom on it, right, and the

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Speaker 1: console just had the technology to read the realm and

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Speaker 1: then translate that into a game. So for a computer,

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Speaker 1: you would have to create an emulator, something that could

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Speaker 1: create an environment similar to the hardware that you would

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Speaker 1: find inside that arcade machine in order for you to

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Speaker 1: run the realm on a computer. And sometimes this would

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Speaker 1: work well and you would have a pretty similar experience

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Speaker 1: as to if you were sitting in front of an

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Speaker 1: arcade machine and playing it, and in some cases it

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Speaker 1: doesn't work so well because the computer's architecture and the

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Speaker 1: arcade architecture are so different that the game stutters or

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Speaker 1: just runs really slowly. Yeah, so then you have the

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Speaker 1: question you're able to run this software and on your

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Speaker 1: home computer and you have something like, say Kangaroo, and

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Speaker 1: you want to play Kangaroo on your home computer, and

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Speaker 1: you go, wait a minute, Atari still exists. I mean,

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Speaker 1: truth is it's a different Atari technically, but they own

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Speaker 1: the copyright for that stuff. Now you know, that's one thing.

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Speaker 1: Then on the other hand, you have something like say Defender,

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Speaker 1: and then you'd say, okay, well who owns the stuff

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Speaker 1: that Williams used to make or Robotron for that matter. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so that's one version. My other example was going to

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Speaker 1: be I was going to ask you if you thought

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Speaker 1: that if I brought my copy of Deluxe Video Construction

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Speaker 1: Set to Electronic Arts for Miamiga, do you think they'd

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Speaker 1: support it? Yeah? Probably not, or SimAnt for that matter,

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Speaker 1: from Maxis before it was acquired by Electronic Arts. I

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Speaker 1: don't think so. But the thing is, the question is

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Speaker 1: you know I can legally use that software because I

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Speaker 1: still own the discs for SimAnt, even though I never

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Speaker 1: really had enough memory in my Amiga to run it,

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Speaker 1: you wouldn't be able to distribute it. I can't distribute it,

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Speaker 1: but I legally can run that all I want to. Now,

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Speaker 1: for something like Maime that in some cases the manufacturer

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Speaker 1: is still around, in some cases it's a different version

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Speaker 1: of the manufacturer who legally owns the copyright, and in

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Speaker 1: other cases the manufacturer is gone and it's hard to

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Speaker 1: identify who, if anybody, owns the copyright this actually is.

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Speaker 1: It presents some seriously thorny legal issues, right, So let's

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Speaker 1: clear things up a little bit here. If there is

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Speaker 1: an old piece of software that's available online and there

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Speaker 1: hasn't been any express permission from the copyright holder that

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Speaker 1: that software can be distributed, distributing that software is illegal. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it violates copyright. Now, that being said, copyright is one

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Speaker 1: of those things that only works if you exercise your

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Speaker 1: right to the copyright. In other words, the copyright owner

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Speaker 1: would have to pursue action against anyone distributing that content.

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Speaker 1: So if you are if you come across an old

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Speaker 1: game from the late eighties, let's say, and it's an

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Speaker 1: old doss based game on from the late eighties, and

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Speaker 1: you wanted to You love this game and you want

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Speaker 1: other people to explore this game and experience this game,

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Speaker 1: and there is no way to buy the game because

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Speaker 1: the game, the company doesn't exist, or the company still

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Speaker 1: exists but no longer markets this gamer supports it. Then

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Speaker 1: you might feel, well, what's the harm? I mean, no

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Speaker 1: one's no one's trying to make money off of this.

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Speaker 1: No one is losing money off of this because there's

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Speaker 1: no way to legitimately get a hold of this. Why

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Speaker 1: is there an issue? And it's all because of that copyright,

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Speaker 1: and the copyright holder may choose to not pursue action.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that it's legal. It just means the

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Speaker 1: copyright holder is allowing that material to be distributed. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I said, wouldn't you know it? I picked a bad

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Speaker 1: example for a video game. It was just Kangaroo really Atari.

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Speaker 1: It was distributed by Atari, but actually it was a

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Speaker 1: product by Sun Electronics. Did you wear like little boxing

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Speaker 1: gloves in that game and you had to box stuff

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Speaker 1: as a kangaroo? Yes, I vaguely remember playing that game.

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Speaker 1: It was very Donkey Kong like because you climbed up

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Speaker 1: to the top and had to find your Joey, you know,

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Speaker 1: the baby kangaroo and so anyhow, so the substitute centipede

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Speaker 1: for what I said before getting back to copyrights. Now,

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Speaker 1: a copyright, the term of a copyright right now, lasts

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Speaker 1: for in the United States, lasts for seventy five years

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Speaker 1: from the creation of the work, unless it's a work

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Speaker 1: for hire, right years, right, and so yeah, a work

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Speaker 1: hire would be last even longer, and most of these,

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Speaker 1: I guess would be considered work for which is why

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Speaker 1: I brought it up. That's a good point. So in

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Speaker 1: other words, this is software that is going to be

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Speaker 1: is still protected by copyright and will be for pretty

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Speaker 1: much our lifetime, right, I mean, some of us might

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Speaker 1: get really lucky, but maybe the Singularity will hit and

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Speaker 1: it won't that won't be a problem. But at that point,

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Speaker 1: who's playing video games? Well, if you wanted to play

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Speaker 1: Space War, you're probably in fairly decent shape because that

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Speaker 1: was created so much earlier than this stuff. Yeah, the

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Speaker 1: games that were created in the eighties, even our our

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Speaker 1: younger listeners would have problems with this all the way through. Yes,

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Speaker 1: so lifetimes. So by legal definition, strictly going by that,

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Speaker 1: it is not there's no real recourse unless the copyright

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Speaker 1: holder gives permission for distribution or releases the copyright into

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Speaker 1: the public domain. Yes. Now at that point, you know

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Speaker 1: it's weird to call the software abandonwear because abandonwear really

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Speaker 1: means this software that doesn't have really any support or

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Speaker 1: access through legitimate channels. So it's not like it's abandonwear

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Speaker 1: at that point. It's just public domain work. So it

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Speaker 1: becomes more like shareware in a way. Sure, but a

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Speaker 1: copyright holder does have that option, and in some cases

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Speaker 1: you see companies take advantage of old, old, old libraries

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Speaker 1: of content and repackage them and market them again, which

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Speaker 1: would mean that you wouldn't want to host those abandoned

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Speaker 1: games on your site, for example, because they are actually

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Speaker 1: making money from this old content and there are legitimate

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Speaker 1: ways to get hold of it. A good example of

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Speaker 1: that as Atari, because you've got the old Atari games

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Speaker 1: that get repackaged occasionally as an app for a smartphone

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Speaker 1: or tablet device. Yea. Also you get some console games

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Speaker 1: that will occasionally come out they'll be like the best

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Speaker 1: of and it'll be whatever the old company was. I

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Speaker 1: like you can even get a version of the Atari

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Speaker 1: twenty six hundred if you really want it. Yeah, but

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Speaker 1: that's the oh new one. They're making new ones now?

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Speaker 1: Is that on think Geek? I'm not sure the Dreamcast was.

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Speaker 1: Somebody told me recently that they saw a new quote

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Speaker 1: unquote new Atari twenty six hundred packaged with some of

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Speaker 1: the early games. Wow, that's basically that's the whole retro thing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but there there are hundreds and hundreds of computer titles,

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Speaker 1: PC titles, Windows titles, DASS based titles even that will

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Speaker 1: probably never re emerge, And so the question comes, well,

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Speaker 1: what's the best way of handling this. There are a

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Speaker 1: lot of sites out there that are dedicated to abandonwear

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Speaker 1: and these sites are the really the ones that are

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Speaker 1: more legitimate And I use the phrase loosely because again

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Speaker 1: we're talking about violating copyright one way or the other.

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Speaker 1: But the ones that are more concerned with offering people

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Speaker 1: the chance to play games that are the equivalent to

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Speaker 1: being out of print, yes, otherwise unavailable. They're very much

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Speaker 1: about not hosting what are also called wares. Whares would

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Speaker 1: be kinds of software that's essentially pirated or duplicated. That's

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Speaker 1: readily available on the market today. Yeah, basically the copy

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Speaker 1: protection has been cracked. Yeah, and you can use it.

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Speaker 1: You know, when I say freely, I don't mean you're

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Speaker 1: allowed to use it. I mean they're on anse code

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Speaker 1: to do it. So, but the more the more legitimate

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Speaker 1: abandonware sites will only host games that you cannot get

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Speaker 1: through any other means unless you were to find like

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Speaker 1: someone selling an old copy. But you know, you wouldn't

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Speaker 1: be able to go to the publisher and buy it

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Speaker 1: because sometimes the publisher doesn't even exist. Well, there are

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Speaker 1: there are people out there who in some of them

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Speaker 1: are content creators, who say there should be a more

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Speaker 1: streamlined way too for companies to release abandon wear so

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Speaker 1: that there isn't this, uh, this legal barrier, especially considering

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Speaker 1: the fact that software changes much more rapidly than say print.

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Speaker 1: And one of them is Greg Costickian. Now do you

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Speaker 1: know who? Have you ever heard of? Greg Costickian. He's

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Speaker 1: a He's a game designer who designs not just computer games,

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Speaker 1: but also role playing games. His name is really familiar

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Speaker 1: to me, and I'm gonna go ah as soon as

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Speaker 1: you say, well, he's He's designed a lot of stuff,

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Speaker 1: most of it is kind of has a has sort

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Speaker 1: of a sitturical or otherwise humorous slant to it. For example,

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Speaker 1: he created an role playing game called tuone back in

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighty four where you played as a cartoon character

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Speaker 1: within a cartoon episode. Every single adventure was modeled after

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Speaker 1: the idea of a seven minute cartoon episode, and you

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Speaker 1: would have the capabilities of a cartoon character, and you'd

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Speaker 1: have friends and enemies within the cartoon, and you could

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Speaker 1: do these outlandish things. It was hilarious. He also created

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Speaker 1: a game called Paranoia, which was all about a post

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Speaker 1: apocalyptic society where you live in a essentially like a

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Speaker 1: biodome kind of thing, and a computer controls everything. But

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Speaker 1: the computer is crazy and paranoid and thinks everyone is

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Speaker 1: out to get him, and pretty much everyone is out

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Speaker 1: to get him. And then but anyway, the whole just because,

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Speaker 1: all right, the whole purpose of the game was to

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Speaker 1: create this idea of paranoia. Well, this guy, who created

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Speaker 1: several different computer games as well, said that I actually

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Speaker 1: have a quote. Software is about as ephemeral as you

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Speaker 1: can get, yet preserving it is essential. Illegal abandonedwar sites

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Speaker 1: are providing a critical service to game designers and scholars

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Speaker 1: and gaming enthusiasts. They do, not, however, provide a lasting

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Speaker 1: and satisfactory solution to the problem because they are illegal.

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Speaker 1: So he was maintaining the point of these old games

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Speaker 1: that exist are important, and they are important culturally because

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Speaker 1: some of them were what helped usher in the era

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Speaker 1: of personal computers in the first place. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: personal computers were great for productivity, but there's no denying

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Speaker 1: that video games. Computer games really drove the industry as well.

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Speaker 1: And as the technology advances, our ability to access those

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Speaker 1: old games decreases, and he says that's a shame. There

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Speaker 1: should be a way to preserve that. And also, as

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Speaker 1: he points out game designers, you know, some of these

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Speaker 1: old games are very primitive when it comes to the

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Speaker 1: graphics or the sound, but a lot of them had

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Speaker 1: very innovative gameplay or very compelling storylines and are great

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Speaker 1: lessons for game designers to learn from. Sure, you know,

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Speaker 1: I would argue the Old Ultimate series, for example, is

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Speaker 1: a very valuable series for people who want to create

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Speaker 1: a storyline that spans several episodes and has a very

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Speaker 1: kind of deep and immersive quality to it. Now, I

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Speaker 1: also add that the Ultimate series has regularly been released

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Speaker 1: in packages where you could buy it legitimately, So don't

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Speaker 1: go out there and start pirating games. Look and make

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Speaker 1: sure first before make sure there's a legitimate way of

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Speaker 1: getting it, and go that way before ever going with

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Speaker 1: abandonwar route. But yeah, as a producer of games, he

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Speaker 1: was pointing out that this is a valuable service that

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Speaker 1: abandonwear sites are giving us. That without it, we would

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Speaker 1: lose these games. And you know, unless some company was like, hey,

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Speaker 1: we need to roll out another product or we're not

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Speaker 1: going to hit our revenue this year, what titles do

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Speaker 1: we have in the vault that we could package together

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Speaker 1: hastily and then shove out the door. And occasionally you

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Speaker 1: see that happen. Well, it would be nice if some

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Speaker 1: of the people who own the copyrights to these would

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Speaker 1: release these these programs in some form. You know, the

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Speaker 1: the app stores for the mobile devices have proven that,

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Speaker 1: you know, even software that costs one or two dollars

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Speaker 1: for a copy of it can still make a decent

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Speaker 1: amount of money. And you know, some of these titles

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Speaker 1: are languishing an obscurity when you know people might really

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Speaker 1: be willing to pay one, two, five dollars for an

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Speaker 1: opportunity to play it again. It's not really a lot

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Speaker 1: of money for most people, and they might relish the

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Speaker 1: opportunity to give it another shot. I think we have

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Speaker 1: the opportunity to actually see that happen now because digital

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Speaker 1: distribution is a reality. Yeah, right, Like Chris and I

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Speaker 1: can both remember a time where you would go to

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Speaker 1: your local computer store or electronics store and there would

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Speaker 1: always be that bin of the old games that were

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Speaker 1: for three or four generations behind the current stuff that's

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Speaker 1: up on the shelves, and you would sort through that

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Speaker 1: bin and just look to see if there were any

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Speaker 1: hidden gems in there, and then you find something like oh,

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Speaker 1: I always wanted to play that, and you pick it up,

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Speaker 1: and you know, you might get a copy of Civilization

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Speaker 1: that way. But that was back in the old day

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Speaker 1: where you would get like the floppy discs I was

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Speaker 1: thinking you were talking about during the video game console crash,

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Speaker 1: when you would go into your corner drug store and

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Speaker 1: there would be a bin of really horrible Atari cartridges

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Speaker 1: for you know, a dollar, say, the same sort of

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Speaker 1: thing where they were just unloading their inventory. Yeah, but

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Speaker 1: those days are you know, pretty much disappearing because you

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Speaker 1: get to digital distribution, you get to the era of

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Speaker 1: the CD really started to decrease it, but then digital

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Speaker 1: district has has taken a big hit on it too.

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Speaker 1: But that also gives the opportunity for companies to put

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Speaker 1: potentially put up old titles for you know, like the

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Speaker 1: same price that you would have for an app for

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Speaker 1: a smartphone. So let's say that you throw up a mule,

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Speaker 1: the old mule game or ARCon oh ar Con, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: put those old populous populous, yes, put these old games

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Speaker 1: up on or battle chess, these old games up so

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Speaker 1: that you can buy them for like ninety nine cents

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Speaker 1: or whatever. And and you know, maybe package it with

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Speaker 1: a free emulator if you need it, because some of

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Speaker 1: these old games will not run on your current system

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Speaker 1: unless first put through an emulator. I have old machines

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Speaker 1: for strictly that purpose. And before before you write in

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Speaker 1: and say, you know, why do you want people to

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Speaker 1: spend this money, this property should be free, Well that's

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Speaker 1: an option too. It would be really cool if they

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Speaker 1: if these companies were released these games into the public domain. However,

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Speaker 1: I think they might have more incentive if they charged

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Speaker 1: a small price and then they would get something in

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Speaker 1: return for it. It's sort of like the Chris Anderson's

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Speaker 1: long tail and the online stores versus the brick and

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Speaker 1: mortar stores. I mean, if you put that up for

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Speaker 1: digital distribution, it could stay there virtually forever. Yeah, you're

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Speaker 1: still going to be a handful of people that are

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Speaker 1: willing to fork over a couple bucks for it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I think I think that solution really provides an

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Speaker 1: elegant approach to this complicated issue because you've got for

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Speaker 1: one thing, you know, it gives an incentive to these

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Speaker 1: companies to share this old stuff that you can't otherwise

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Speaker 1: get and people can relive like that moment from their

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Speaker 1: childhood when they played this one game that they loved

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Speaker 1: and now they can't they can't get it anymore. It

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Speaker 1: also gives the the you know, it gives the fans

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Speaker 1: what they want. It's not prohibitively expensive if you go

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Speaker 1: with this this micro Paine meant kind of app approach.

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Speaker 1: And also it tells companies what people are interested in.

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Speaker 1: If you were to create a section of your site,

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Speaker 1: for example, that hosted the old titles for cheap Purchase,

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Speaker 1: and you saw that one of those titles was getting

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Speaker 1: hit like crazy. People were just buying it up. You

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Speaker 1: might think, you know, we could probably do a follow up, like,

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Speaker 1: just do an incredible follow up that is based on

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Speaker 1: the same premise of this original game, maybe not a remake,

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Speaker 1: but even perhaps a long awaited sequel and clean up,

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Speaker 1: because we didn't realize there was this interest in this

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00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:39,359
Speaker 1: old title that we owned. Now, this does not solve

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Speaker 1: the problem for those titles where the ownership is up

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Speaker 1: in the air, like no one knows who owns this anymore.

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Speaker 1: That's still you're gonna you're still going to have that

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Speaker 1: problem where if there's a title where you're not really

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Speaker 1: sure this is the is the copyright holder of the

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Speaker 1: guy who made it? Is it this other company? Is

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Speaker 1: it a company that bought you know, bought a company

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Speaker 1: that bought a company that bought a company. That's where

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Speaker 1: you start getting to issues where these games may be

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Speaker 1: hopelessly mired in red tape. That's just until you figure

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Speaker 1: out who is the owner of that copyright and who

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Speaker 1: has the authority to do this, it'll never happen. You know.

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Speaker 1: The abandoned weear approach is pretty much the only way

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Speaker 1: you're going to get hold of those games, and it's

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Speaker 1: not a legitimate way. Yeah, yeah, now, okay, this is

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Speaker 1: from the perspective of the law. I'm sorry I shouldn't

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Speaker 1: say that, because sometimes I'm like, hey, you know what,

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Speaker 1: I love that game. I bought that game, I played

379
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:34,440
Speaker 1: that game. There's no way for me to get it,

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00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:38,840
Speaker 1: and my sense of entitlement is crying out. Well, this

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00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:45,680
Speaker 1: is where things get interesting. Let's say you have an

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Speaker 1: old Atari twenty six hundred and you bought a copy

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Speaker 1: of Yards Revenge, and you have the machine, and you've

384
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Speaker 1: got the game. It's in your basement, it's in a box,

385
00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:01,639
Speaker 1: but you got it. Yeah, it's in storage. Unfortunately the

386
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:04,600
Speaker 1: twenty six hundred doesn't work anymore, or you don't have

387
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:08,000
Speaker 1: an adapter. Yeah, and you really can't play because the

388
00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:10,280
Speaker 1: machine's dead. But I know, hey, it's a museum piece,

389
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:12,879
Speaker 1: so you hold on to it, and then you find

390
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:16,359
Speaker 1: an emulator for your computer with yours Revenge where you

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Speaker 1: can play the Atari twenty six hundred version of it.

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Speaker 1: The thing is from what I understand. Again, keep in mind,

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Speaker 1: I'm not a lawyer, but theoretically, from what I understand,

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Speaker 1: you're entitled to play that because you have a copy

395
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Speaker 1: of the game. You already paid for it, You have

396
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:34,480
Speaker 1: a copy of the game in your possession, you're legally

397
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:37,440
Speaker 1: entitled to play it. Because the reason I get this

398
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:40,960
Speaker 1: is from the disclaimers on the main sites. They say

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00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,919
Speaker 1: that if you have a copy of the ROMs basically,

400
00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:45,960
Speaker 1: if you have the guts of the arcade machine, yeah,

401
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:49,160
Speaker 1: the chips, then legally you can play the game. Yeah.

402
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:52,240
Speaker 1: Otherwise you are, That's why they haven't been shut down. Yeah. Otherwise,

403
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:54,480
Speaker 1: you're only supposed to hold onto a ROM up to

404
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:57,440
Speaker 1: twenty four hours. Yeah, and then after that you're supposed

405
00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 1: to delete it, yes, on your on Yeah, you as

406
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:04,080
Speaker 1: a person who downloaded the ROM from that site, not

407
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:06,679
Speaker 1: the sites themselves. But if you own a legal copy

408
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:10,000
Speaker 1: of the ROM, you're supposed to be able to play it,

409
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:12,320
Speaker 1: even if the machine that you had it on. Now,

410
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:15,920
Speaker 1: I imagine that's there's some probably legal gray area where,

411
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:19,880
Speaker 1: you know, if the copyright police they don't exist. But hey,

412
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:22,000
Speaker 1: like the copyright police come in your house, say wait

413
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Speaker 1: a minute, your Atari twenty six hundred is broken. You're

414
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:26,720
Speaker 1: not supposed to play it on your home computer. You're

415
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:29,480
Speaker 1: supposed to play it on this machine. You're in trouble Man.

416
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:33,520
Speaker 1: The thing is, for one thing, there aren't any copyright police,

417
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Speaker 1: not specifically copyright police. And you know, for a lot

418
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:41,919
Speaker 1: of people, this just people aren't gonna bother doing it.

419
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:44,879
Speaker 1: I mean, they're not gonna sue Jonathan because you know,

420
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 1: that's the thing. They say that you can sue anybody

421
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 1: in America for anything, but generally people sue people who

422
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:53,200
Speaker 1: have money, right, So so they're not gonna come out. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're not gonna come after Jonathan or me for doing

424
00:24:56,080 --> 00:25:00,400
Speaker 1: that unless they really believe that they can prosecute us

425
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 1: with good cause and are going to get something. You know,

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00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,919
Speaker 1: that's worth putting the time and money into a legal

427
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,639
Speaker 1: case for doing this. And that's even more so for

428
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:14,040
Speaker 1: these companies and organizations that don't exist. And that's why

429
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:18,600
Speaker 1: that's the biggest case I've seen for making abandon wear legal.

430
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 1: Basically saying, hey, company X doesn't exist, this is a

431
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:24,360
Speaker 1: great game, I want to play it. I would give

432
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:26,440
Speaker 1: them twenty dollars if they were still around, but there's

433
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 1: nobody to pay please, you know, but technically technically it's illegal. Yeah,

434
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 1: and the law, by the letter of the law, it's illegal.

435
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 1: And again, if the copyright holder doesn't pursue any action

436
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:41,120
Speaker 1: against you, then you're in the clear. And in almost

437
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 1: every single case that's going to be that's going to

438
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 1: be what happens if you if you run an abandon

439
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:48,679
Speaker 1: wear site, you might occasionally get a take down notice

440
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:52,000
Speaker 1: from a copyright holder, and then of course you should

441
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 1: very much adhere to that if you don't want to

442
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:58,200
Speaker 1: encounter legal difficulties. But I used to have pants and

443
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 1: if you have them sued off of you. Oh, by

444
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 1: the way, it gets drafty. Here's here's a pop quiz.

445
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 1: Hot shot. Okay, so hot shot? Yeah? The guy who

446
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,719
Speaker 1: the guy who made Yards Revenge, Yeah, he made another

447
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,679
Speaker 1: very famous Atari game. Do you know what it was? Oh?

448
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:16,679
Speaker 1: Who was it that made ours Avenge? It was Howard

449
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 1: Scott Warshaw, the actual game designer. Who does I don't

450
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 1: know et the extraterrestrial. I don't blame him, I don't

451
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:30,640
Speaker 1: He was paid, he was playing paid. A truck glows

452
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:34,280
Speaker 1: me something very quickly, Yes, but yes, one of the yars.

453
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 1: Revenge was one of the games that was considered to

454
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 1: be a big hit, with Atari twenty six hundred, followed

455
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 1: by a game that that often people credit as killing

456
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 1: not just the Atari twenty six hundred, but the video

457
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 1: game industry, the home video game industry as a whole,

458
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:50,720
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty three. He was just following orders. That

459
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:52,639
Speaker 1: was just some trivia for all of you guys. So

460
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:54,720
Speaker 1: lest you think we are telling you to run out

461
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:57,440
Speaker 1: and download all the abandoned where you want and play it,

462
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 1: we're not telling you to do that, right, because that

463
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,639
Speaker 1: would be illegal. What we're telling you is there's some

464
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:05,879
Speaker 1: awesome games that are out there, and some of them

465
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:09,119
Speaker 1: are hosted on abandoned where sites, and man, those games

466
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:13,920
Speaker 1: are neat and you know what, I'm pretty sure that

467
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 1: copyright holders wouldn't come after you. But don't do it.

468
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,160
Speaker 1: If you do, go back and redo that. If you no. No,

469
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 1: if you do that, it would be technically illegal. Yes,

470
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 1: it is technically illegal. Whether or not it's a shame.

471
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 1: Whether or not it's unethical is another question. Unethical and

472
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 1: illegal are two different things. Yeah, and unethical that's a

473
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:37,480
Speaker 1: weird question too. Yeah, because again, if there's no one

474
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:42,440
Speaker 1: to pay, then those games essentially are forgotten. Yeah, they're gone.

475
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:45,119
Speaker 1: You might as well do the same thing. Like this

476
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:48,160
Speaker 1: book came out in nineteen eighty we're locking it away

477
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 1: in this library and you have no access to the library.

478
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 1: In fact, no one has any access to the library,

479
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 1: and it's going to stay there in the library. So

480
00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 1: you could have access to it if we opened up

481
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 1: the door, but we're not gonna see. That's that's an issue,

482
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 1: right because then you're like, well, what's the point of

483
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 1: it even existing if no one can use it? So yeah,

484
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 1: there's there is an the ethical and the ethical standpoint

485
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 1: is different from the legality standpoint. This is definitely a

486
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 1: technology issue too, because if you really want to read

487
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 1: Balo Wulf, there's a copy in print somewhere way it's

488
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 1: a local bookstore, possibly it a used bookstore. Yeah, it's

489
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,639
Speaker 1: not even un in to that. But it's also the

490
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:29,399
Speaker 1: thing is you can find a copy of it. You

491
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:31,399
Speaker 1: could download it for free on the internet because it's

492
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 1: out of copyright. Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's in the

493
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:36,680
Speaker 1: public domain. Yeah, I would think. But the thing about

494
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 1: it is for the technology behind these games, you know

495
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 1: that that is one of the issues behind it. And

496
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:46,920
Speaker 1: there's there's the other thing too. In case you're saying, well,

497
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 1: you're just talking about games, really do you want to

498
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 1: you want to download a copy of physical So you

499
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 1: can run that really. Yeah, that's the other part of that.

500
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 1: I mean, people don't. Adobe won't necessarily support Photoshop three.

501
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:03,960
Speaker 1: You could probably find a copy of it somewhere out there,

502
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 1: but you know, I would consider that to an effect

503
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 1: abandon whear too, because they've moved so far beyond that point.

504
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 1: It's been out of print for so many years. You're

505
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 1: on your own. But legally, if you've downloaded a copy

506
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 1: of it, a cracked copy of it online, you'd be

507
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 1: in the same boat. But the reason we're talking about

508
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 1: games predominantly is because that's the stuff that people go

509
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 1: back to the reason that people in a lot of

510
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 1: cases keep old gaming machines around just because every once

511
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 1: in a while that nostalgia thing hits. But I don't

512
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 1: think you find it for something like a spreadsheet or

513
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 1: you know, or issue, in which case that could be

514
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 1: a Yeah, in some cases that's that's an issue too,

515
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 1: But I think I think it's used more. Abandonedwear is

516
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 1: more in the minds of a lot of people for games,

517
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 1: simply because there's that nostalgia and retro factor. Yeah, I'm

518
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 1: thinking back to some of the games I used to

519
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 1: love to play that I would I would really enjoy

520
00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 1: seeing an updated version of that game, or the ability

521
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 1: to play the old one again like Tie Fighter. Ah yeah,

522
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 1: and now that one has a double whammy against it,

523
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 1: right because it's a licensed game, not just a not

524
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 1: just not just the fact that you've got the software

525
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 1: and everything, but you've got the actual content. It's all. Yeah,

526
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 1: that's a much more complex situation. Well, it was LucasArts.

527
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 1: It was LucasArts, so great game, fantastic game. Wish that

528
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 1: they would come out with a new one and then

529
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 1: their hint, well you've seen you've seen the success of

530
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 1: the Monkey Island franchise, is it's renewed, and of the

531
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 1: Monkey Island franchise and Oregon Trail as it has popped

532
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 1: up on Facebook and on h Yeah. But I mean

533
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 1: that's the funny thing about some of this stuff can

534
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 1: be updated and refreshed and people in an added dimension

535
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 1: things you couldn't do thirty years ago. I hope you

536
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 1: enjoyed that episode. Chris and I had a lot of

537
00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 1: fun exploring the world of abandoned war and the Murky

538
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 1: thinks about what to do once something becomes unavailable in

539
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 1: the market, And of course I'd never abandon you guys.

540
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 1: Remember if you have suggestions or questions, write me. My

541
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 1: address is tech stuff at HowStuffWorks dot com. Don't forget

542
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 1: to follow me on Twitter, that's at tech STUFFHSW. And

543
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 1: you can always drop me a line on Facebook or Tumblr.

544
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 1: We use tech STUFFHSW for both. And I'll talk to

545
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 1: you again really soon. For more on this and thousands

546
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 1: of other topics, visit HowStuffWorks dot com