1 00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:06,760 Speaker 1: Through that conversation, he asked her, what do you think 2 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 1: the worst way to die is? 3 00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 2: The autopsy revealed that she fought like a hellcat to 4 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:16,080 Speaker 2: try to get this guy off her. 5 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:19,960 Speaker 1: He thinks he's smarter than these cops and he's going 6 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:23,640 Speaker 1: to figure out what they know prior to this interrogation happening. 7 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 3: So they set me down and they tell me that 8 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 3: they have identified a lead suspect in the case and 9 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 3: that he is a graduate student at Washington State University. 10 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 3: When I made the connection, the hair on the back 11 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:37,879 Speaker 3: of my neck kind of stood up. 12 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 4: This is the Idaho Massacre a production of KAT Studios 13 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 4: and iHeartRadio season three episode for the interview, I'm Courtney, I'mstrong, 14 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 4: a producer at KAT Studios with Stephanie Leedeger and Gabriel Castillo. 15 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 4: After Brian Coberger was sentenced to four consecutive life terms 16 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 4: for the brutal November twenty twenty two murders of Madison Mogen, 17 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 4: Kyllie Gonsalvez, Xana Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin, new information has 18 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 4: continued to emerge about his strange and unsettling past, from 19 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:29,120 Speaker 4: massive document dumps to witnesses stepping forward with stories to 20 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 4: former acquaintances describing their encounters with him. Each new detail 21 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:35,760 Speaker 4: is helping to fill in the gaps and paint a 22 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:39,319 Speaker 4: more clear, haunting picture of who this man really is. 23 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 4: Washington State University police chief Gary Jenkins cross paths with 24 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 4: Brian Coberger before his name made headlines. His first encounter 25 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 4: with Brian Coberger, long before the arrest, is as unexpected 26 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 4: as it is chilling. Here's Gary Jenkins filling us in 27 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 4: on his and his bizarre meeting with one of Idaho's 28 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 4: most notorious killers. He's joined by our producer Alison Bankston. 29 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:13,080 Speaker 3: I started my law enforcement crew in southern California. I 30 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 3: worked for thirty three years in the La County area, 31 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:18,640 Speaker 3: and then in twenty ten, I was hired as the 32 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:21,919 Speaker 3: police chief for the city of Pullman, Washington, where Washington 33 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 3: State University is located. I worked as the police chief 34 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:28,359 Speaker 3: for the City of Pollman police Department for twelve years, 35 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 3: and then I was hired as a police chief at 36 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 3: Washington State University three years ago. We are really a 37 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:39,679 Speaker 3: tight knit community here. We're somewhat isolated. We're about eight 38 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 3: miles from Moscow, Idaho, so we're pretty close in our 39 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 3: communities work together a lot. But besides that, you know, 40 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 3: the next closest medium sized city is Spokane, Washington, an 41 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 3: hour and a half away, So we really depend on 42 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:56,640 Speaker 3: each other a lot, and the communities really worked together 43 00:02:56,919 --> 00:02:59,520 Speaker 3: well a lot out of necessity. 44 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:03,079 Speaker 5: How did you first find out what happened on November thirteenth, 45 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:04,880 Speaker 5: twenty twenty two. Can you take me back to that 46 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 5: day and when you got the call and what you 47 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:08,240 Speaker 5: were first initially thinking? 48 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 3: Well, my assistant chief messaged me and said that they 49 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 3: heard that Moscow had responded to a location in their 50 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 3: city and they had four people that were dead, and 51 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:23,200 Speaker 3: we didn't know anymore beyond that. We didn't know if 52 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 3: it was an accidental from carbon monoxide or what had happened. 53 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 3: And then I did hear that they did announce that 54 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 3: it was a homicide, quadruple homicide. So I got on 55 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 3: the phone and called Chief Fry at Moscow PD his 56 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 3: cell phone and offered any kind of assistance that our 57 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 3: department could give him. And he was actually on his 58 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 3: way back to the city. He was out of town, 59 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 3: but he was driving back to Moscow, and he said 60 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:51,680 Speaker 3: thank me for the offer, and that he once he 61 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 3: got there and assessed what was going on. He'd let 62 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 3: me know if he needed any help, and turned out 63 00:03:57,240 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 3: didn't call us back. They ended up calling in a 64 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 3: lot of resources from Idaho. Of course they're across the 65 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 3: state line from us from Washington. But that's what happened 66 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 3: on that day, and then University of Idaho sent out 67 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 3: what they call a vandal alert to alert the campus 68 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 3: when had happened. And then we did the same thing 69 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 3: on Washington State University campus. We sent out an alert 70 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:20,599 Speaker 3: no define everyone that there had been a homicide in 71 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:23,159 Speaker 3: Moscow and the person that had committed the crimes was 72 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:24,359 Speaker 3: still on the loose. 73 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 5: And I think of people in your position, you know, 74 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 5: being the chief of police at WSU, when this huge 75 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:33,159 Speaker 5: college related murders are going on. That's so much pressure, 76 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:35,039 Speaker 5: and I'm sure you had a lot of people coming 77 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:38,039 Speaker 5: to you looking for answers. How do you keep cool 78 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 5: in situations like that and how do you keep emotions 79 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 5: down when there's something that's scary going on. 80 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:46,040 Speaker 3: There's a lot of things that we have to get 81 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:49,920 Speaker 3: done quickly, and so we get pretty focused on those 82 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:52,800 Speaker 3: details and trying to get that done. And so I 83 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 3: think that that kind of keeps our mind, you know, 84 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 3: focused in the right direction, and we definitely did a 85 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:03,159 Speaker 3: lot of communication with our students on campus, along with 86 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 3: our Dina Students' Office and our counseling and psychological services, 87 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:11,480 Speaker 3: we worked at trying to keep our campus calm. We 88 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:16,720 Speaker 3: stepped up our patrols to increase our police visibility on campus, 89 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:21,159 Speaker 3: and this case was particularly challenging because Moscow PD was 90 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 3: very tight lit on the information that they were sharing 91 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 3: and so we could only pass along what we would 92 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:30,799 Speaker 3: hear from them. So we would just try to communicate 93 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:34,480 Speaker 3: that information as well as just trying to give our 94 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 3: campus confidence that we were keeping an eye on things 95 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:39,040 Speaker 3: and that we were doing everything that we can to 96 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 3: keep our campus safe. 97 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:48,760 Speaker 4: Thirty six days after the murder, Chief Jenkins gets an 98 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 4: update on the status of the investigation from Moscow Police 99 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:53,720 Speaker 4: Chief James Frye. 100 00:05:57,400 --> 00:05:59,839 Speaker 3: The Chief fry sent me a text message on December 101 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:02,920 Speaker 3: nineteenth asking if I could meet him at the Moscow 102 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 3: Police Department the next morning, and I thought it was 103 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 3: just going to be another law enforcement briefing. It'd held 104 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:13,039 Speaker 3: a couple of law enforcement briefings previously, and so I'd 105 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 3: met him the next morning and it was just me 106 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 3: meeting him there, and so I thought that was kind 107 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:21,200 Speaker 3: of unusual. And then he took me upstairs and we 108 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 3: went into a room that had the entire investigative team 109 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:28,119 Speaker 3: there but thirty plus people. So I knew right away 110 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:31,920 Speaker 3: that there was something something significant happening and had some 111 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:35,360 Speaker 3: kind of connection, likely to Washington State University. So they 112 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:37,279 Speaker 3: sent me down and they tell me that they have 113 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 3: identified a lead suspect in the case and that he 114 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:45,159 Speaker 3: is a graduate student at Washington State University living in 115 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:49,279 Speaker 3: graduate student housing on campus. The name sounded familiar to me. 116 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:51,920 Speaker 3: When I made the connection, you know, the hair on 117 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:56,359 Speaker 3: the back of my neck stood up. They tell me 118 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:59,919 Speaker 3: that they have identified a lead suspect in the case 119 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 3: and his name is Brian Coberger, not a very common name. 120 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 3: I recalled hearing it before, and it took me about 121 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 3: thirty seconds early to make the connection that I had 122 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 3: interviewed him previously when I worked at the Pullman Police Department. 123 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 4: In April of twenty twenty, two months before the murders, 124 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 4: Brian Coberger was still wrapping up his master's degree at 125 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 4: the Sales University and getting ready to start his PhD 126 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 4: program at Washington State University. Around that time, he submitted 127 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 4: an application for an internship at the Pullman Police Department. 128 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 3: When I was police chief at the City of Pullman, 129 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:45,679 Speaker 3: we had a program that we worked with the Washington 130 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 3: State University Criminal Justice Program where a PhD student would 131 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 3: spend three years as a research assistant at the police department. 132 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 3: You know, at the time, we were having wanted some 133 00:07:56,880 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 3: research done on having a our own municipal court there 134 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 3: in Pullman, which we did not have. We were using 135 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 3: the county, So that was some of the research we 136 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 3: wanted done, and just also on looking at crime trends 137 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 3: and seeing if we needed to reallocate resources to different 138 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 3: places based on current crime trends and those types of things. 139 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 3: I was given four applications from Washington State Criminal Justice Program, 140 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 3: so I interviewed each of the four applicants for about 141 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 3: thirty minutes each. Two main things I was looking for 142 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:35,959 Speaker 3: from those applicants. One was someone who was interested not 143 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 3: just in theoretical research, but really practical, actionable research that 144 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 3: we could implement in our department to make us more effective. 145 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:46,679 Speaker 3: And then the other element I was looking for was 146 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:50,480 Speaker 3: someone who had the ability to develop trust and rapport 147 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:54,560 Speaker 3: with my staff. Someone coming in to a law enforcement 148 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 3: environment that's not law enforcement, sometimes that's a very difficult 149 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:02,559 Speaker 3: situation to develop that that trust and report. I was asking, 150 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:05,440 Speaker 3: you know, what kind of research they've done already, what 151 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 3: their particular interests are, you know, what they're looking to 152 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:11,320 Speaker 3: get out of the program, those types of things. And 153 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 3: so when I interviewed Brian Coberger, he answered the questions. Okay. 154 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 3: It was a little bit robotic, I think, and I 155 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 3: kind of picked up that he didn't have a lot 156 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:24,440 Speaker 3: of that much interest and necessary the type of research 157 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:27,319 Speaker 3: we were looking for. Again, I think it was more theoretical. 158 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 3: I know he had a lot of interest in the 159 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 3: mind of criminals and why they do what they do 160 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 3: and how they're feeling when they do what they do, 161 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:38,720 Speaker 3: and I don't know that that would have been really 162 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:41,800 Speaker 3: beneficial to our department. 163 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 5: Were you surprised he even applied, like, I know what, 164 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 5: to sales. He was kind of really focused in on 165 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 5: the criminal mind, and it seems like this internship is 166 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 5: totally different. Why would he apply for an internship that 167 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 5: wasn't really in his wheelhouse. 168 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:57,439 Speaker 3: I think really he wanted to see how police departments operate. 169 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 3: I think he wanted to get that experience working with 170 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 3: a law enforcement agency, you know, just to add to 171 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 3: his resume. So it was a little bit out of 172 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 3: what his interest seemed to be. At the end of 173 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:12,079 Speaker 3: the thirty minutes, I know, my impressions were that he 174 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 3: wasn't real personable, He didn't have a real fluid way 175 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 3: of conversation. He spoke with some hesitation, he was very awkward, 176 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:26,800 Speaker 3: didn't seem to have very refined social skills, and so 177 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 3: at the end of it, I just didn't feel like 178 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 3: he would be able to develop that trust with my 179 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:33,480 Speaker 3: staff to be an effective researcher. 180 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:36,959 Speaker 5: Finding out what he did. Would you ever think, oh, 181 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 5: did he apply to this internship to get to save himself? 182 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 5: You know, Brian Coper, here he is applying to a 183 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 5: big internship at a police station, not really interested in 184 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 5: the stuff that you're offering. Did you ever think that 185 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 5: maybe he applied to some sort of cover up or 186 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:51,200 Speaker 5: to get intel. 187 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's definitely possible. I mean, I don't 188 00:10:55,160 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 3: think we'll ever know when he planned these crimes. If 189 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 3: it was something that maybe he had been thinking about, 190 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 3: that's very possible that he was trying to get into 191 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:11,600 Speaker 3: the police department to potentially have access to confidential information 192 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:15,560 Speaker 3: or just to learn more about practices and protocols of 193 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:20,800 Speaker 3: law enforcement that would help him commit the quote perfect crime. 194 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 3: And so yes, I did think about that, and more 195 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 3: thought about that, the more I was glad that I 196 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 3: decided not to select him. 197 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 4: After Washington State University Police Chief Gary Jenkins realized he'd 198 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 4: met Brian Coburger before, he didn't hesitate. He turned to 199 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:42,840 Speaker 4: Moscow Police Chief James Fry and told him exactly what 200 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 4: he knew. Ten days later, officers from Washington State University 201 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 4: joined the Idaho State Police in a coordinated search of 202 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:58,560 Speaker 4: Coburger's campus apartment and his office. 203 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 3: Really, nothing of any significance was recovered from either location. 204 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:09,480 Speaker 3: His apartment, my my assistant chief actually oversaw that warrant service, 205 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 3: and she reported back to me that there was very 206 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 3: little in his apartment at the time. In fact, it 207 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:18,440 Speaker 3: looked like that maybe someone was or that Coburger was 208 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 3: not planning to come back to that apartment. 209 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:23,680 Speaker 5: Yeah, and I heard too that his shower curtain was 210 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:26,120 Speaker 5: missing and there's only a few things of clothing there. 211 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 5: And I know some people think that the shower curtain 212 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 5: could have been involved in some way. 213 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:33,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that that could have been. It could 214 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:35,959 Speaker 3: have been that there were some clothing or some evidence 215 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:38,079 Speaker 3: that he may be wrapped up in there and he 216 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:41,800 Speaker 3: took a shower, and there could have been blood or 217 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 3: DNA on that, and so it's you know, very likely 218 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 3: that that was disposed of somewhere to avoid any type 219 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 3: of leaving any type of evidence. 220 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:55,480 Speaker 4: Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in 221 00:12:55,520 --> 00:13:08,200 Speaker 4: a moment. We've been exploring Brian Coberger's time at Washington 222 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 4: State University, starting with a strange interview he had with 223 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 4: Chief Gary Jenkins while applying for an internship at the 224 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:19,560 Speaker 4: Pullman Police Department. But his unusual behavior on campus did 225 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:23,840 Speaker 4: not end there. Crime Analyst's Body move in an expert 226 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:26,840 Speaker 4: in analyzing complex data, is here to walk us through 227 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:30,200 Speaker 4: more of the recently released documents from the massive evidence 228 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 4: dump following Coburger's sentencing to life in prison. This time, 229 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 4: we're zeroing in on some of the records detailing his 230 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:43,760 Speaker 4: behavior at WSU. Here's body joined by our producer Alison Bankston. 231 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:49,680 Speaker 5: So let's talk about that interview with his fellow teaching assistant, 232 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 5: because honestly, I'm floored by. 233 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:54,839 Speaker 1: That that one is so in that document in its 234 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 1: entirely is so interesting to me. So in this document, 235 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 1: it's an interview with somebody that worked with Brian Coberger 236 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:06,040 Speaker 1: at WSU. It talks about Brian as a TA assistant 237 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:09,240 Speaker 1: in his relationship with Brian, and he goes on to 238 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:12,720 Speaker 1: say that somewhere in October or November he couldn't remember, 239 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 1: he sees scratches on Brian's face and his knuckles were red. 240 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:22,360 Speaker 1: When he asked Brian Coberger what happened? What happened to you? 241 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 1: Brian said he was in a car accident, right, and. 242 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 5: His fellow teaching assistant also says that the scratches looked 243 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 5: like they were from fingernails. I'm no expert, but what 244 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 5: car crash causes a scratch like that? 245 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 4: We as forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan about the validity 246 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 4: of Brian Coberger's excuse for the scratches on his face 247 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 4: shortly after the murders. 248 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, you do get scratches in a car accident, but 249 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 2: you know what you get more of, You get more 250 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 2: blunt force trauma. The idea that you would merely get 251 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 2: scratches in a location, and that's odd to say. My 252 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 2: money would be on k who made scratches, because the 253 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 2: autopsy revealed that she fought like a hell cat to 254 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:10,520 Speaker 2: try to get this guy off of her, right, And. 255 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 5: I feel like he would have a lot more injuries 256 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 5: if it truly was a car accident. 257 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:17,400 Speaker 2: It's just so ridiculous, you know, when you think about it, 258 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:20,320 Speaker 2: because I won't say, well, where else are you're injured? 259 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 2: And do you need a ride? Can I give you 260 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 2: a ride somewhere? Because obviously, if you've been in a 261 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 2: car accident, your car must be damaged. Well, guess what, 262 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 2: there's no indication this car was damaged anyway. 263 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 6: Yeah. 264 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 5: I feel like, again this goes back to him being 265 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 5: such a strange criminology student because his mistakes are so stupid. 266 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:39,520 Speaker 5: But he could have said that a cat scratched him 267 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 5: and it would have been way more unbelievable. 268 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, I would have bought that. Yeah, God, this cat, 269 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 2: you know I love cats. Straight cat that came up 270 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 2: to the door. I got a camp tunefish in in 271 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 2: the apartment. I went to feed it and now I 272 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:54,320 Speaker 2: was trying to pet it while I was eating, and 273 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 2: thing attacked me. Okay, that sounds plausible to me car accident. 274 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 4: Not here again, body move in with producer Alison Bankston. 275 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 1: And then we find out that Brian told him the 276 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 1: TA assistant he was flying home from Washington to Pennsylvania, 277 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 1: when in fact we knew he drove and he was 278 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 1: already there when he told his friend this. He's just 279 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 1: he's lying. He's a lying liar. 280 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:35,400 Speaker 4: And the newly released documents reveal even more troubling details 281 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 4: about Brian Coberger's initial arrest in his home state of Pennsylvania, 282 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 4: the moment he first came face to face with investigators 283 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 4: who had been tracking him for weeks. One of interest 284 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:50,680 Speaker 4: to us an unsettling report written by Moscow Police Corporal 285 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 4: Brett Payne about Coburger's interview after his arrest. 286 00:16:55,920 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 1: And with Brett Payin is ISP detective Sergeant Gilbertson, and 287 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 1: he's with the Idaho State Police. And additional to that 288 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:06,440 Speaker 1: FBI special agent surely right. 289 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:08,240 Speaker 5: And what was so weird to me was that he 290 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:11,880 Speaker 5: starts off the interview saying that Sergeant Gilbertson looks familiar. 291 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 1: Right, because it indicates he's been watching news about this case. 292 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:19,760 Speaker 1: Because Detective Gilbertson is of course with the Idaho State Police, 293 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:21,720 Speaker 1: and of course he would be talking about this in 294 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:24,119 Speaker 1: the media or at these press conferences, you know, and 295 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 1: Brian Coberger is watching these, so that's of course why 296 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:28,639 Speaker 1: he says this, Oh yeah, you did look familiar. What 297 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:29,119 Speaker 1: a dummy. 298 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:31,800 Speaker 5: Yeah, and then he starts implying that he really admires 299 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 5: law enforcement, has a great admiration for everything these officers 300 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:35,320 Speaker 5: are doing. 301 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:38,239 Speaker 1: He's really kind of buttering them up, like I'm one 302 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:40,679 Speaker 1: of you. They're asking about his studies and he's like, oh, 303 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 1: you guys already probably know all this, you know, implying 304 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:46,439 Speaker 1: that you know, they went to criminology school too, when 305 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:49,639 Speaker 1: of course it's not true. He's very trying to make 306 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:52,960 Speaker 1: himself like one of them. Right, they're talking about sports, 307 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 1: they're talking about religion. Brian Coberger says that he was 308 00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 1: raised Christian, and you know, he was basically having doubts 309 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:02,160 Speaker 1: when he's you know, confronted with the beauty of this world. 310 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 1: Like it's so weird. It's such a weird conversation. 311 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:05,760 Speaker 2: I know. 312 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:08,040 Speaker 5: I just think it's odd that he brought up because again, 313 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:10,359 Speaker 5: he didn't have to small talks usually, like you know, 314 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:11,879 Speaker 5: they talked a little bit about he said oh, I 315 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:14,639 Speaker 5: don't follow WSU footballer because I'm a baseball fan. And 316 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:17,480 Speaker 5: then to bring up religion out of nowhere. It's because 317 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:19,720 Speaker 5: he's trying to humanize himself. But then he says, you. 318 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 6: Know, but I have doubts. He kind of goes in 319 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:25,360 Speaker 6: this weird circle with it. What else does he say 320 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 6: in this interview? 321 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:29,200 Speaker 1: Coberger then spoke about how he became interested in criminal 322 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:32,440 Speaker 1: justice and stated he thought about being a police officer, 323 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 1: but did not want to make the commitment unless he 324 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 1: was absolutely sure. Interesting because he applied to the Pullman 325 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:42,680 Speaker 1: Police Department and he's telling these police officers, Oh, I 326 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:44,399 Speaker 1: thought about being a cop, but I just, you know, 327 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:46,399 Speaker 1: I'm not sure about the commitment. What do you mean 328 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:48,199 Speaker 1: the commitment. It's a job. If you don't like it, 329 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:51,640 Speaker 1: you quit. What commitment we're talking about. It's very, very weird. Again, 330 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:54,760 Speaker 1: he's trying to, like, I think, ingratiate himself into this 331 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 1: law enforcement family, which he is no part of, by 332 00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:00,320 Speaker 1: the way, but he's trying to like insert himself like 333 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:02,760 Speaker 1: I'm just like you, I'm one of you exactly. 334 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 6: Yeah. 335 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:05,960 Speaker 5: And earlier we were talking with WSU Police Chief Gary 336 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:09,439 Speaker 5: Jenkins about his interview with Brian Coburger, and you know, 337 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:11,439 Speaker 5: he said he didn't trust him at all to blend 338 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:13,439 Speaker 5: in with his staff, and you know, rightfully so. 339 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 6: And here he is. 340 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:17,239 Speaker 5: Putting on what seems like some crazy performance with these 341 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:20,879 Speaker 5: officers in Pennsylvania, probably very untrustworthy. 342 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 6: What does he do after this in this interview? 343 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:26,280 Speaker 1: Coberger then stated he understood why they were engaging in 344 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:28,400 Speaker 1: small talk, but it would appreciate it if we explained 345 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 1: to him why what he was doing there. And the 346 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:33,240 Speaker 1: detective goes, well, why do you think you're here? And 347 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:37,520 Speaker 1: Brian Coberger said he didn't know. Detective Gilbertson asked Coburger 348 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:40,639 Speaker 1: if he watched the news. Coberger said, I watched the news. 349 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:44,560 Speaker 1: Detective Gilbertson then asked Coberger why he thought I looked familiar. 350 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:47,600 Speaker 1: So why do you think I look familiar? Cogerger said 351 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:50,399 Speaker 1: he wasn't sure and stated I had a familiar face 352 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 1: and I looked like someone he used to know. Detective 353 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:55,960 Speaker 1: Gilbertson then said we were there because of what happened 354 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: in November just off the University of Idaho campus. Detective 355 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:03,000 Speaker 1: go asked Coberger if he knew what was what that was, 356 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:07,520 Speaker 1: to which Koberger replied, of course. When prompted to elaborate, 357 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:10,200 Speaker 1: Coberger said, it was the incident we had been investigating 358 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:11,560 Speaker 1: for how long has it been? 359 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:13,920 Speaker 6: Okay? It is insane to me that he says how 360 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:16,440 Speaker 6: long has it been? You know? It almost kind of 361 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 6: seems like a pride thing to me. 362 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:20,480 Speaker 5: I mean, of course, I'm no expert, but there's such 363 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 5: a certain cockiness to it, just from the way that 364 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:23,560 Speaker 5: I'm reading it. 365 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:24,400 Speaker 6: Right. 366 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:28,159 Speaker 1: Detective Gilbertson again stated we were investigating the homicides of 367 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 1: four students and that we had questions and things we'd 368 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:34,480 Speaker 1: hoped Coburger would help understand. So this conversation is interesting 369 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 1: because Coburger is it okay if we engage in small 370 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 1: talk and the cops are like yeah, they start engaging 371 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 1: in small talk, and Brian's getting impatient, right, He's hoping 372 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:47,120 Speaker 1: something's going to slip in this small talk. I think 373 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 1: he's trying to size up these cops. He thinks he's 374 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:52,560 Speaker 1: smarter than these cops and he's going to figure out 375 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:56,200 Speaker 1: what they know prior to this interrogation happening. Right, That's 376 00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:59,200 Speaker 1: what I think. Coburger then asked where his parents were 377 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:03,159 Speaker 1: and where his daughter was. Coburger re engaged again and 378 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:06,800 Speaker 1: asked what questions we would have for him. Detective Gilbertson 379 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:09,280 Speaker 1: then asked Coburger again if he understood his rights and 380 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:13,879 Speaker 1: asked specifically what Coburger wished. Coburger asked what spipecifically he 381 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:16,000 Speaker 1: wanted to talk to him about. So they're playing this 382 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 1: game right now. Coburger's asked for a lawyer, So Detective 383 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 1: Gilbertson's like, okay, interviews over, but Coberger keeps re engaging, right, 384 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 1: So the Detective's like, listen, you understand your rights, right, 385 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:31,720 Speaker 1: what do you want? Coburger asks specifically what we wanted 386 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 1: to talk to him about, and the reason I told 387 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 1: Coberger he evoked his Fifth Amendment rights at that moment 388 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:39,119 Speaker 1: and we were no longer going to be asking him 389 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:42,040 Speaker 1: any further questions. So Coburger he's fishing. He's like trying 390 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:43,439 Speaker 1: to find out what they've got. 391 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:49,439 Speaker 4: It's interesting. Let's stop here for a break. We'll be 392 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:59,879 Speaker 4: back in a moment. We've been digging through some of 393 00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:03,720 Speaker 4: the most revealing files from the Moscow Police Department's massive 394 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:08,399 Speaker 4: document release, focusing specifically on those that shed light on 395 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:12,720 Speaker 4: the strange and sometimes bizarre behaviors of convicted killer Brian 396 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:17,320 Speaker 4: Coberger in the days and weeks after the murders. In 397 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:21,080 Speaker 4: these pages, we see how Coberger attempted to explain away 398 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:25,879 Speaker 4: suspicious injuries, from a bloody knuckle to scratches on his face, 399 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 4: telling his fellow teaching assistant that it came from a 400 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:35,840 Speaker 4: car accident. This excuse now reads as obviously false. We 401 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:39,240 Speaker 4: also get a glimpse into his first formal interactions with 402 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 4: investigators following his December thirtieth, twenty twenty two arrest in Pennsylvania, 403 00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:48,240 Speaker 4: moments that offer a window into his state of mind 404 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:52,119 Speaker 4: as the case closed in around him. Here again to 405 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:56,080 Speaker 4: discuss one more document of interest is crime analyst Body Movin. 406 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:02,400 Speaker 1: In his documents, there's there's a tender reference and that 407 00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:06,919 Speaker 1: a woman met Brian Coberger online and that he was 408 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 1: in at WSU and she was in Pennsylvania and she 409 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:13,400 Speaker 1: was having a hard time meeting people, so she expanded 410 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:15,919 Speaker 1: her range and she ended up meeting Brian Coberger. He 411 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:18,840 Speaker 1: and her struck up a conversation and in their small 412 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 1: talk or talking about like their favorite movies. You know, 413 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:23,160 Speaker 1: things that you would talk to people when you're first 414 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:27,159 Speaker 1: getting to know someone, and they the genre switched to 415 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:31,320 Speaker 1: horror movies, and through that conversation he asked her, you know, 416 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 1: what do you think the worst way to die is? 417 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:38,240 Speaker 1: And she said, probably from like a knife, that would 418 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 1: be awful, and he said, oh, something like a k 419 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:44,679 Speaker 1: bar and she stopped talking to him shortly after that 420 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:48,159 Speaker 1: because the conversation turned pretty dark. We learned in a 421 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,880 Speaker 1: later document, however, the cops followed up with her and 422 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:55,639 Speaker 1: she couldn't, you know, provide them any proof that she 423 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 1: had talked to anybody at WSU. She didn't have access 424 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 1: to her tender messages anymore, so we don't get any 425 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,359 Speaker 1: clarification on that. And it could be just noise, it 426 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 1: could be totally irrelevant, but it's an interesting talking point. 427 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:10,879 Speaker 1: Creepy creepy, creepy creepy. 428 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:17,240 Speaker 4: Throughout this season, we'll keep digging into these documents piece 429 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:20,960 Speaker 4: by piece to uncover what they reveal, what they suggest, 430 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 4: and what they can tell us about how Brian Coberger 431 00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:30,160 Speaker 4: took four innocent lives. Next Time, behavior expert Robin Drake 432 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:34,199 Speaker 4: will help us unpack documents detailing Coburger's behavior before and 433 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:37,679 Speaker 4: after the murders and the personality traits that may have 434 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 4: driven him, because sometimes the paper trail reveals more than 435 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:50,360 Speaker 4: the killer intended. More on that next time. For more 436 00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:53,399 Speaker 4: information on the case and relevant photos, follow us on 437 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:58,560 Speaker 4: Instagram at kt Underscore Studios. The Idaho Massacre is produced 438 00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 4: by Stephanie Leidecker, Alison Bankston, Gabriel Castillo and me Courtney Armstrong. 439 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:09,320 Speaker 4: Editing and sound designed by Jeff Toois. Music by Jared Aston. 440 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:13,800 Speaker 4: The Idaho Masacre is a production of Katie's Studios and iHeartRadio. 441 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:18,920 Speaker 4: For more podcasts like this, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 442 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:21,360 Speaker 4: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.