1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:06,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Prognosis. I'm Laura Carlson. It's day two hundred 2 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:11,400 Speaker 1: and thirty since coronavirus was declared a global pandemic. Today's 3 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:16,480 Speaker 1: main story the rapid spread of virus misinformation has created 4 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:24,599 Speaker 1: twin crises for doctors, a pandemic and an infodemic. But first, 5 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 1: here's what happened in virus news today. A House panel 6 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 1: called the Trump Administration's response to the pandemic inefficient, ineffective, 7 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:45,839 Speaker 1: and inequitable. The sixty nine page report released by the 8 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 1: House Select Subcommittee on the coronavirus crisis called the virus 9 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 1: an American fiasco. The subcommittee said the administration's response is 10 00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 1: quote among the worst failures of leadership in American history. 11 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:06,960 Speaker 1: The report said that relief programs for workers and small 12 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 1: businesses were weakened because the administration gave priority to bigger 13 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 1: companies and inadequate financial controls led to significant fraud, waste, 14 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:25,000 Speaker 1: and abuse. The UK's drug regulator is speeding up reviews 15 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 1: of COVID nineteen vaccines that Fiser and Astra Zeneca are developing. 16 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:34,480 Speaker 1: Britain hopes to approve the first successful shot as quickly 17 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:41,039 Speaker 1: as possible. The UK Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency 18 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 1: started a review of the Fiser vaccine in recent weeks, 19 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 1: according to a person with knowledge of the situation. A 20 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 1: spokesman for Astra Zenica confirmed that the agency is also 21 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 1: conducting an expedited review of Astra's vaccine, which the company 22 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 1: is co developing with the University of Oxford. Finally, a 23 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 1: federal judge ruled against landlord groups who were seeking to 24 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:11,960 Speaker 1: block the US Centers for Disease Control and Preventions National 25 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 1: moratorium on evictions due to the coronavirus pandemic in Atlanta, 26 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 1: U S District. Judge JP Booley said the public interest 27 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 1: in controlling the spread of COVID nineteen outweighed the landlord's 28 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 1: economic interest, saying their quote economic harm pales in comparison 29 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 1: to the significant loss of lives that could occur if 30 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 1: the order was blocked. And now for today's main story, 31 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 1: the coronavirus is both a medical problem and a public 32 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:53,800 Speaker 1: health problem that's baked into its biology. But the pandemic 33 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 1: in the US has been exacerbated by another challenge of 34 00:02:57,360 --> 00:03:03,399 Speaker 1: our own, making, a pervasive atmosphere of distrust. That atmosphere 35 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 1: has let misinformation about the virus flourish. That misinformation is 36 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 1: often amplified by the man with the country's loudest megaphone, 37 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 1: President Donald Trump. I spoke to healthcare reporter John Tazzi 38 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 1: about how the information crisis has made practicing medicine in 39 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 1: a pandemic even more difficult. I was wondering if you 40 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 1: might just briefly sketch some of the misinformation or even 41 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 1: conspiracy theories that we've been seeing surrounding COVID nineteen. Yeah. 42 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 1: I think there's a range of things, everything from you know, 43 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 1: people who believe that the virus is a hoax or 44 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 1: that it's entirely made up, to allegations that doctors or 45 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 1: hospitals are in free being the number of cases or 46 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 1: the number of deaths attributed to covid um, which we 47 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 1: haven't really seen evidence of, but it's a belief that's 48 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 1: out there too. You know, more kind of common misunderstandings 49 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:18,479 Speaker 1: or just questions that people might not know, you know, 50 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:21,479 Speaker 1: good information about, like whether you know, does wearing a 51 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:24,159 Speaker 1: mask put you at risk of not getting enough oxygen? 52 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:28,040 Speaker 1: Doctors say that's not a risk, that there's no reason 53 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:31,679 Speaker 1: to not wear a mask, won't hurt your ability to breathe. 54 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 1: But you know, some people have that kind of misconception 55 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 1: as well. So it's really a gamut from very elaborate 56 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 1: conspiracies to more common misconceptions. One doctor I spoke to 57 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 1: said that, um, some of her patients were so afraid 58 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:52,279 Speaker 1: of the coronavirus that they were deferring needed medical care, 59 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 1: which put their health at risk. Right, So that's, ah, 60 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 1: you know, that's maybe not the same type of misinformation 61 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 1: as we think of a conspiue racy saying the virus 62 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:03,599 Speaker 1: is a hoax. But you know, if people aren't able 63 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:06,920 Speaker 1: to kind of accurately gauge their own risk and are 64 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:10,680 Speaker 1: you know, differring important care that they need because they're 65 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:13,159 Speaker 1: afraid of catching COVID, you know, that can be a 66 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 1: sort of other aspect of misinformation. And is there one 67 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: particular source or how is this information or shall we 68 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: say misinformation spreading? It's a good question, and I think, 69 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 1: you know, it's sort of a you know, it's a 70 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 1: factor of the broader kind of information environment that we 71 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:36,160 Speaker 1: all live in right now, right where there's a flood 72 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 1: of information from many sources, and the World Health Organization 73 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:44,599 Speaker 1: actually identified this very early on before COVID nineteen was 74 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 1: even declared a pandemic. The w h O identified what 75 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 1: it called an infodemic UM. So the sort of flood 76 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 1: of information, both accurate and not that makes it hard 77 00:05:56,920 --> 00:06:02,719 Speaker 1: for people to find trustworthy sources and reliable information when 78 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:07,600 Speaker 1: they need it. They said that February second, and since then, 79 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 1: you know, I think we've just seen this proliferate on 80 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:15,280 Speaker 1: social media, you know, from other sources, and you know, 81 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 1: it's sort of the elephant in the room. But the 82 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:21,839 Speaker 1: President of the United States UM has routinely and repeatedly 83 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 1: made false statements about COVID nineteen. And you know, one 84 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 1: analysis from Cornell University actually identified President Trump as the 85 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 1: largest source of misinformation about the virus. So you know, 86 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 1: when those messages get amplified in all sorts of ways 87 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:45,160 Speaker 1: in the media, on television and social media, there's not 88 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 1: I think a single source. But we're in an environment 89 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:52,880 Speaker 1: with high levels of distrust for all sorts of institutions, 90 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 1: and you know, and the media, UM extreme political polarization 91 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 1: days before an election in UM, and you know, the 92 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 1: science and public health advice and that has been kind 93 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 1: of wrapped up in that. I mean, is that part 94 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 1: and parcel of just how quickly in some ways all 95 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 1: this has come about in that because there was just 96 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 1: no information about COVID nineteen, and we've been, even from 97 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 1: a scientific perspective, trying to just find out more and more. 98 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 1: There has been understandably some false starts in terms of 99 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 1: developing therapeutics, developing medicines, theories about what might be successful 100 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 1: in treating COVID nineteen. Do you think that has lent 101 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 1: to this perspective perhaps by some that they just don't 102 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 1: know what information to trust. Yeah, I think that's I 103 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 1: think that's right. I mean, one interesting thing that someone 104 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 1: I interviewed, the head of the American Medical Association, actually 105 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 1: mentioned to me was that as we learn more about coronavirus, 106 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 1: the coronavirus and how it affects people, and how it 107 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 1: spreads and how to treat it. You know, as the 108 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 1: kind of world of scientific evidence proliferates, there's misinformation proliferating 109 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 1: for you know, each of those points. Right, So, as 110 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 1: we learn more about potential vaccines that are in development, 111 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 1: there's more misinformation about vaccines. As we learn more about 112 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:31,559 Speaker 1: ways to keep it from spreading, misinformation proliferates around those 113 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:34,560 Speaker 1: guidelines so you know, it is a really tough thing 114 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:37,560 Speaker 1: I think for people in general. UM, this is a 115 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 1: new virus. We are learning, or at least in the 116 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:44,600 Speaker 1: early days, we're learning in real time. Some recommendations change 117 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 1: based on things we learned, and that's how science works. UM. 118 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 1: But I think it can make it really hard for people, 119 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:54,680 Speaker 1: you know, even in good faith, trying to figure out 120 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 1: how to behave in an environment with a lot of 121 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 1: uncertainty and all of competing sources of information. The early 122 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:07,200 Speaker 1: recommendations in the United States where that people shouldn't wear masks. 123 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 1: That was because there was a shortage of masks and 124 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 1: the policymakers were concerned that, you know, people buying up 125 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 1: surgical masks would make it harder for healthcare workers who 126 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 1: needed them. UM. But as we learned more about how 127 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 1: the virus could spread among people who had no symptoms, UM, 128 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:33,080 Speaker 1: that was that was an important way that the virus spread, 129 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: the recommendations for face coverings came out. We're learning new 130 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 1: things and have to adapt to that, and but that 131 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 1: change can create I think an environment where people can 132 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 1: misunderstand things, or people who are deliberately trying to manipulate 133 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:53,360 Speaker 1: information or behavior. UM. Have an opportunity to do that. 134 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 1: You know, as we anticipate the the availability and the 135 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 1: distribution of the a COVID nineteen vaccine, how do you 136 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 1: see that amount of distrust potentially affecting the success of 137 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:14,840 Speaker 1: this vaccine In terms of impacting the risk to COVID nineteen. 138 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 1: I think it is a It is a big risk 139 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 1: that we will have a vaccine that works, that has 140 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 1: been uh, you know, proven in rigorous clinical trials, and 141 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:32,199 Speaker 1: that a large chunk of the population will not want 142 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:34,679 Speaker 1: to take it because they don't trust it or they 143 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: don't trust the authorities who have said that it is 144 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:41,959 Speaker 1: authorized or safe to take. I think, you know, we're 145 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 1: going to be having that conversation. Um, you know, maybe 146 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 1: in a few months. I think the President suggested that 147 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 1: a vaccine would be ready sooner than his scientific advisors said. 148 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:57,720 Speaker 1: There was a lot of suspicion and allegations that there were, 149 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 1: you know, efforts to accelerate a vaccine for political purposes 150 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:06,560 Speaker 1: and to have something authorized before the election. It seems 151 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:09,440 Speaker 1: like that's not going to happen now. But and then 152 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:12,720 Speaker 1: on the you know, the response of some Democratic governors 153 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:15,320 Speaker 1: has been to say that they want to independently have 154 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 1: their states vet a vaccine that's approved, you know, even 155 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 1: after a Food and Drug Administration authorization. So you know, 156 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 1: I think it's unprecedented and it's pretty dangerous territory in 157 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:34,079 Speaker 1: some ways. UM. And you know, the data from polling 158 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:36,960 Speaker 1: Gamma polls show that the number of the percentage of 159 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:39,600 Speaker 1: people who said they'd be willing to take an FDA 160 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:45,199 Speaker 1: approved vaccine has declined substantially since the summer. Um. Maybe 161 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 1: that will be reversed, but it's a it's a concern 162 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 1: that doctors expressed to me that you know, all this 163 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 1: work and all this really tremendous scientific enterprise to get 164 00:11:56,800 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 1: to a shot in record time, UM, you know, will 165 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 1: be diminished if people don't take it. And and that's 166 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:07,439 Speaker 1: you know, that's not a question of science. That's a 167 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 1: question of human behavior and trust and kind of where 168 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:12,959 Speaker 1: we are as a society. And you know, we'll find 169 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:21,560 Speaker 1: out more about that in the months ahead. And that 170 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 1: was John Tozzi And that's it for our show today. 171 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 1: For coverage of the outbreak from one and twenty bureaus 172 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 1: around the world, visit Bloomberg dot com slash coronavirus and 173 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:35,440 Speaker 1: if you like the show, Please leave us a review 174 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 1: and a rating on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. It's the 175 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 1: best way to help more listeners find our global reporting. 176 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:48,119 Speaker 1: The Prognosis Daily edition is produced by top foreheads Jordan's Gospore, 177 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:53,559 Speaker 1: Magnus Henrickson, and me Laura Carlson. Today's main story was 178 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:58,839 Speaker 1: reported by John Tozzi. Original music by Leo Sidrin. Our 179 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:03,480 Speaker 1: editors are Rick Shine and Francesco Levi. Francesco Levi is 180 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 1: Bloomberg's head of podcasts. Thanks for listening. H