Speaker 1: Hey everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Welcome
Speaker 1: back to Work in Progress, Whipsmarties. We have a guest
Speaker 1: today who has been dubbed the Queen of Quirk by
Speaker 1: The New York Times, and you know how I love
Speaker 1: a quirky lady. Carrie Preston joins us on the show today.
Speaker 1: I am so excited to talk to her about how
Speaker 1: she built her unconventional attorney named Elsbeth Tousconi in her
Speaker 1: hit series Elsbeth, because this character actually originated in a
Speaker 1: guest episode on The Good Wife and just kept coming
Speaker 1: back for more, then appeared on The Good Fight, and
Speaker 1: then apparently thanks to a Colombo rewatch, the creators said,
Speaker 1: hold the phone, that's the show that Elsbeth. I want
Speaker 1: to talk to Carrie about how she's carried this incredible
Speaker 1: character over fifteen years, how she figures out how to
Speaker 1: make so many people in the world feel represented on screen,
Speaker 1: what brings her joy as an artist, and how she
Speaker 1: found her artistic voice it was earlier than you might think,
Speaker 1: and what it's like to figure out ways to use
Speaker 1: her platform for good being so rooted in joy from
Speaker 1: supporting the LGBTQ community with glad to advocating for folks
Speaker 1: with Parkinson's alongside Michael J. Fox and his foundation. Carrie
Speaker 1: really takes her goodness on screen to off, and I
Speaker 1: just can't wait to hear from her how she manages
Speaker 1: to balance it all. Let's dive in with Carrie Preston.
Speaker 1: Thank you for coming on the show. I'm so gigd
Speaker 1: you're here. You're just the absolute coolest human and I'm
Speaker 1: like really amped about it.
Speaker 2: Well, I should say first that I was on a
Speaker 2: jury once for an indie film festival and yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: was one of the in competition and it was like
Speaker 2: such an easy this should be the winner for me.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, it win.
Speaker 1: So there you carry.
Speaker 2: Thank you you and Michael. You guys were great together.
Speaker 1: Oh thank you. We had such a special time making
Speaker 1: that movie.
Speaker 2: The two of you were just like electric together. I
Speaker 2: don't even know. I mean, it was just like riveting
Speaker 2: from the minute it started and it was brilliant the
Speaker 2: whole thing.
Speaker 1: Oh, thank you so much. That really means a lot.
Speaker 1: I really appreciate that, and you were awesome. Thanks well,
Speaker 1: You're so awesome, And I just I love when I
Speaker 1: get to sit down with people whose work I adore
Speaker 1: and who are just doing such cool things in the world.
Speaker 1: But I kind of like to go back to catch
Speaker 1: up to where we are are, because I feel like
Speaker 1: when you're a person who you know, folks know they
Speaker 1: love watching you on TV. You know, they know your
Speaker 1: body of work, they know you, and I know you
Speaker 1: as this person. But I wonder if you know you
Speaker 1: got to be in you know, your own sci fi
Speaker 1: movie and hang out with yourself when you were nine
Speaker 1: or ten, you know, like have a day in the
Speaker 1: park in the city with your younger self. Would you
Speaker 1: do you think you would see yourself today in her?
Speaker 1: And do you think she would be like, oh cool,
Speaker 1: I see how I turned into you? Or did your
Speaker 1: life just take like a totally unexpected series of turns
Speaker 1: and you had no idea you'd be doing this for
Speaker 1: a living.
Speaker 2: You know, I grew up and making Georgia okay, And
Speaker 2: you know that's a smaller town. It's not. It's not
Speaker 2: the smallest, you know, it's a but it's in Georgia.
Speaker 2: And you know, there weren't like actors that were coming
Speaker 2: up in that town, you know what I mean. It
Speaker 2: was It wasn't like that was the thing that you
Speaker 2: you would you would aspire to do was to be
Speaker 2: an actor.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you didn't grow up like next to Times Square.
Speaker 2: I wasn't like going to the professional after school or
Speaker 2: any of that stuff. But I'm definitely a little bit
Speaker 2: of what you might call a lifer, you know. I
Speaker 2: started to doing az when I was eight years old.
Speaker 2: My older brother John, he started doing community theater and
Speaker 2: I was like, I want to be like him, So
Speaker 2: I started doing plays and we had very supportive parents.
Speaker 2: My mom. My mom's an artist. She was a painter,
Speaker 2: a sculptor and did art therapy. Wow, even knew what
Speaker 2: that was. I mean, she called it expressive art. She
Speaker 2: didn't get a degree in art therapy, but she got it.
Speaker 2: She got certified and expressive art, which is very similar,
Speaker 2: So she was doing that kind of thing. My dad
Speaker 2: geotechnical engineer, so he's like the left brain side of things, wow,
Speaker 2: you know, and my mom was like the right brain
Speaker 2: side of things. And luckily they they didn't try to
Speaker 2: fight us on that, like, you know, they were like, oh,
Speaker 2: you want to be creative, We're going to let you
Speaker 2: do that. I mean I was I was when I
Speaker 2: was like six years old. I remember playing in the
Speaker 2: front yard and acting like there were cameras in the
Speaker 2: trees and then trying to act natural. Wow, like why,
Speaker 2: don't know why. I don't know how that feeling like
Speaker 2: cameras were watching me. So that was just something that
Speaker 2: I don't know was maybe ingrained in me. But you know,
Speaker 2: by the time I'm twelve, I'm starting my own theater
Speaker 2: company with the kids in the neighborhood. You know, I
Speaker 2: was Now I was that kid who just was like,
Speaker 2: I love to do this. Now. I don't know if
Speaker 2: it was because I needed more order in my life.
Speaker 2: I don't know what it was, but I was gravitating
Speaker 2: towards it, and I started doing community theater and I
Speaker 2: would you know, but I wasn't playing like the leads.
Speaker 2: I was always playing the comic sidekick. I was always
Speaker 2: playing like you know, and I would put on the
Speaker 2: fanny pack and the flasses and the you know, I
Speaker 2: would do the funny character voices. I was already pressing
Speaker 2: around with that and not really knowing what I was doing.
Speaker 1: Wow, it's so interesting that you say that. Every once
Speaker 1: in a while, I think about moments in my own
Speaker 1: childhood where I go, oh, there it was where you know,
Speaker 1: my parents would be out and I was finally old
Speaker 1: enough to stay home by myself, and I'd be like
Speaker 1: doing a scene in the living room alone because I
Speaker 1: felt like, oh, I've got a house all to myself,
Speaker 1: and now I can work on this. And even now,
Speaker 1: I mean this morning, I was, you know, walking from
Speaker 1: one end of the subway station to the other to
Speaker 1: catch a train, and I was like, God, this whole
Speaker 1: thing just feels like a movie. And I catch myself realizing, like,
Speaker 1: if I was shooting this, I'd have a camera on
Speaker 1: a Delli track over there, and oh, look at that
Speaker 1: cool and there's a guy with a you know, a
Speaker 1: violin over here, and I'm always thinking about it that way,
Speaker 1: but I I didn't. I guess I've never really even
Speaker 1: thought to talk about that until you just did and
Speaker 1: I went, oh, we do. We do have a weird
Speaker 1: thing that we do, I guess when we're our day.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, because otherwise why would we be doing it?
Speaker 2: Because it's a very hard business to get into.
Speaker 3: So there must be you know, into me and to
Speaker 3: be in yeah, and to maintain and do all of
Speaker 3: the peripheral things that go go along with it, yeah,
Speaker 3: you know, including the not getting the.
Speaker 2: Job part, which is way more than the getting the job.
Speaker 2: Oh so all of that stuff. If we didn't have this,
Speaker 2: I don't know original kernel of Yeah, this is this
Speaker 2: is what I this is what I want, what I
Speaker 2: need to do, I at least need to try to
Speaker 2: do it. Or I got to be creative in some way.
Speaker 2: And I've always felt that way, like I got to
Speaker 2: be creative in some way, Like even when I was younger. Yes,
Speaker 2: it was the acting part, but I started directing and
Speaker 2: writing and doing all that stuff at the same time
Speaker 2: because I just wanted to make things, you know, And
Speaker 2: I would also make puppets and paint and make you know,
Speaker 2: because my mom was an artist. You know, we were
Speaker 2: always doing, you know, some kind of arts. So there
Speaker 2: was an appreciation for it and just a desire to
Speaker 2: express myself in some way. And so that has come
Speaker 2: in handy as my life has gone on in this
Speaker 2: in this creative pursuit, because when I find that, Okay,
Speaker 2: well maybe I'm not being hired right now, well I'm
Speaker 2: going to go ahead and make my own stuff, right,
Speaker 2: there's that empowerment there that I think, I think it
Speaker 2: was nurtured. I'm lucky it was nurtured at a young
Speaker 2: age by parents who didn't try to talk me out
Speaker 2: of it, by teachers who were like, yeah, yeah, you
Speaker 2: could do that. We don't quite know how to teach
Speaker 2: how to do that, but we can get you to
Speaker 2: the places that can you know, that kind of thing.
Speaker 1: That's really really very cool because what I'm hearing you
Speaker 1: talk about is the fact that, as the phrase goes,
Speaker 1: because you could see it, you were empowered to believe
Speaker 1: you could be it. Your mom was an artist, so
Speaker 1: you could be an artist. And I think to be
Speaker 1: given the tools to express yourself from such a young
Speaker 1: age and then to have that natural inclination to want
Speaker 1: to use those tools be fostered.
Speaker 2: What a cool.
Speaker 1: Just what a cool series of empowering events that must
Speaker 1: have felt like as a kid.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it did. And also just the the joy
Speaker 2: of it, you know, the you know how it is
Speaker 2: like when you when you key and when you're doing
Speaker 2: the role and it just starts to take over and
Speaker 2: you just feel like you're expressing something bigger, You're in
Speaker 2: charge of giving something bigger to the world. You know, yes,
Speaker 2: you know, the the translation of what it is to
Speaker 2: be a human through you know, through your your instrument.
Speaker 2: You know, I don't know that. There's just something very
Speaker 2: thrilling about that, and it's it feels like a contribution.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I always I talk about this sort of
Speaker 1: singularity I experience where it feels like for me, the
Speaker 1: journey into the character, where it really comes alive in me.
Speaker 1: It's the amount of work it requires and the creativity
Speaker 1: and the excitement and the joy you're talking about. And
Speaker 1: then suddenly I feel feelings that I know are not mine,
Speaker 1: but my body doesn't know we're not mine. And in
Speaker 1: that moment, it's like those feelings can represent everyone who
Speaker 1: might watch it. At some point I can give it
Speaker 1: away and it's you know, it's like the it's like
Speaker 1: the two butterfly wings, and I feel like I'm just
Speaker 1: in the body in the center and it's so.
Speaker 2: Cool. Yeah yeah, like Martha Graham says, the body never lies. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, And so it maybe a little you got
Speaker 2: to like work on your own mental health because sometimes majorly,
Speaker 2: like you just said, your body doesn't know and so
Speaker 2: sadly you're carrying some kind of trauma around that you
Speaker 2: actually don't have.
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, I feel like that's an interesting part
Speaker 1: of our job nobody ever really talks about is like
Speaker 1: you you really have to have some mental health practices
Speaker 1: if you want to stay sane and do this for
Speaker 1: a living. Yes, it sounds like you got to build
Speaker 1: such a big toolkit from such an early age. But
Speaker 1: to your point, you know, making Georgia is not times square.
Speaker 1: Was it a surreal kind of adjustment for you to
Speaker 1: leave home and come to Juilliard and be in the
Speaker 1: mix of this city and that kind of professional pursuit.
Speaker 2: Well, I got the great privilege and benefit of going
Speaker 2: to some undergraduate schools before I went, so I got
Speaker 2: to have a little bit of a bridge. Okay, you know,
Speaker 2: so I went first, I went to the College of
Speaker 2: Charleston for a couple of years, and then I met
Speaker 2: a professor there who said, let's get you some stronger
Speaker 2: training than we have here. So they got me. He
Speaker 2: got me to audition for a very tiny, but very powerful,
Speaker 2: little liberal arts school in southern Indiana called the Ununiversity
Speaker 2: of Evansville. And there was a Loudes who had started
Speaker 2: that program uh and and fostered the program and turned
Speaker 2: it into really a world class little training womb. And
Speaker 2: so I went there for a couple of years and
Speaker 2: really got some really solid training. And one of the
Speaker 2: things that he and the professors there take great pride
Speaker 2: in is that they helped place their students in the
Speaker 2: top graduate acting schools in the country. Yeah, and so
Speaker 2: they really have like an incredible rate still of student
Speaker 2: to you know, Juilliard, Yale, m y u UCSD like
Speaker 2: the you know, some some really solid solid training grounds.
Speaker 2: And I loved school. I was one of those wirdos
Speaker 2: that just loved me too, and I got the top
Speaker 2: of it. So I just kept going, you know, so
Speaker 2: because I ended up going from undergrad to four years
Speaker 2: at Julia Julias was at the time when I was there,
Speaker 2: a four year program, and so you know, that was
Speaker 2: an additional four years. But it was a really good
Speaker 2: way for a small town girl to acclimatize herself to
Speaker 2: that what you were saying, large ocean of a place,
Speaker 2: you know. And uh and so I had that, I
Speaker 2: had the the you know, the benefit of being in
Speaker 2: a in a school that could prepare me for it,
Speaker 2: and so having that kind of insulated vibe, but still
Speaker 2: being right smack in the middle of Manhattan, you know,
Speaker 2: Lincoln Center, you know, which had its wonderful you know benefits,
Speaker 2: which was going getting to go see all those shows
Speaker 2: and you know around all those different artists at that school. Yeah,
Speaker 2: all the different disciplines you know, really shaped me and
Speaker 2: had you know, gave me even more of an appreciation
Speaker 2: of all the fellow artists that you know, I had
Speaker 2: the privilege of being around.
Speaker 1: What were some of your favorite things that you got
Speaker 1: to do as a student there.
Speaker 2: I mean we were there, you know, from eight am
Speaker 2: until like midnight, you know, every day we were there,
Speaker 2: and so we would have these like classroom projects, you know,
Speaker 2: so it felt like we were just doing these plays
Speaker 2: for each other and for the faculty and for each other,
Speaker 2: and so that we were able to feel like less
Speaker 2: of the pressure of performance. The school, the the program
Speaker 2: is built to kind of lead you up to the
Speaker 2: public performance side of things, and you know, to get
Speaker 2: you in a place where you feel free and stuff
Speaker 2: and you're working with the same people. You know, you
Speaker 2: have your core class, and that's who you go through
Speaker 2: this four years with, you know, for better and sometimes
Speaker 2: for worse. I mean it's a lot, you know, it's
Speaker 2: a little bit like boot camp for acting. You know,
Speaker 2: there's a joke that some people call it the jail
Speaker 2: yard school because you know, you're kind of stuck in
Speaker 2: this like you know, pressure cooker. In some ways, I
Speaker 2: found it to be invigorating. I'm still very close to
Speaker 2: a lot of my classmates, and we had a crazy class.
Speaker 2: But along the way, we formed our own theater company,
Speaker 2: and we ended up doing a season, a couple of
Speaker 2: plays in between in the summer between our second and
Speaker 2: third year of school, and so that was like a
Speaker 2: really special thing too. To to to get this group
Speaker 2: of people and take what we were learning out into
Speaker 2: the world, and.
Speaker 1: That's really cool. And the desire to keep going, you know,
Speaker 1: it's your summer break, and all you want is more
Speaker 1: of what you're doing in school. What a great indicator
Speaker 1: that you're on the right life path, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: It's so cool.
Speaker 2: Got to because I was studying the classics, you know,
Speaker 2: I was learning how to do Shakespeare and stuff. From
Speaker 2: the very beginning of college, I started auditioning for summer
Speaker 2: Shakespeare programs, and pretty much every summer I would go
Speaker 2: to you know, Georgia Shakespeare, Utah Shakespeare, California Shakespeare. I
Speaker 2: would do I would get to do Shakespeare even when
Speaker 2: we did our little Juilliard company, we did a Shakespeare play,
Speaker 2: so you know, I was constantly cutting my teeth on
Speaker 2: you know, some of the the most you know, iconic literature,
Speaker 2: dramatic literature, that they're the stuff that we all keep
Speaker 2: going back to.
Speaker 1: Yeah, artists, I love that.
Speaker 2: How fun.
Speaker 1: We'll be back in just a minute after a few
Speaker 1: words from our favorite sponsors. I imagine when you get
Speaker 1: to reflect, you you know, they say hindsight's twenty twenty, right,
Speaker 1: like you see everything so clearly. You see what you
Speaker 1: were building and what you loved and was coming back
Speaker 1: to this character of Elsbeth. Did it kind of feel
Speaker 1: as exciting as the way you're talking about looking back
Speaker 1: on that Shakespeare period. Because it's not lost on me
Speaker 1: that you started playing this character fifteen years ago and
Speaker 1: then played her across two shows and now you're playing
Speaker 1: her in this third show. It's like, it feels like
Speaker 1: a thing you get to revisit and build and build
Speaker 1: and build on in a world. And you know, maybe
Speaker 1: it's a stretch, but in my observation in this moment,
Speaker 1: I'm like, hold on, it almost feels like you returning
Speaker 1: to Shakespeare over and over and over again. It's like
Speaker 1: you're getting to do a version of that now, or
Speaker 1: does that track or does it feel crazy that tracks?
Speaker 2: I hadn't really connected that those dots, So thank you
Speaker 2: for that, because it really, it really is making me
Speaker 2: think about it in a in a in a way
Speaker 2: that feels like it's part of a longer trajectory. You know,
Speaker 2: there's not a day that goes by that I'm not amazed, grateful,
Speaker 2: and humbled by getting to play this character. Not a
Speaker 2: day goes by because it is, like you just said,
Speaker 2: it's not lost on me. It is really not lost
Speaker 2: on me. I'm I'm a fifty eight year old woman
Speaker 2: who has been doing character roles my whole career, happily supporting.
Speaker 2: I've had played leads in movies, et cetera, indies and stuff,
Speaker 2: but mostly I'm you know, I've been there to support you,
Speaker 2: and happily. I love it, you know, I love being
Speaker 2: trusted with those kinds of roles. You know, when it
Speaker 2: first started out, you know, everybody who always wants to
Speaker 2: kind of pigeonhole you and tell you like this is
Speaker 2: your type, you know, And so when I was young,
Speaker 2: it was like you're the ingenoux and I was always like, okay,
Speaker 2: but I don't make that angeneu really interesting because like
Speaker 2: I want to just play you know, like the pretty
Speaker 2: young thing, like especially in Shakespeare. Yeah, And when I
Speaker 2: first got out of Juilliard, I got to audition for
Speaker 2: The Tempest, which was being done as Shakespeare in the Park.
Speaker 2: It was George C. Wolfe, the Great Director's first Shakespeare
Speaker 2: that he'd ever directed. It was Patrick Stewart playing Prospero.
Speaker 2: And I was auditioning for Miranda, which is, you know,
Speaker 2: one of the news in the Shakespeare cannon. But I
Speaker 2: was like, yeah, but if your girl, who's you know,
Speaker 2: fifteen and you have only since you were a baby,
Speaker 2: lived on an island with a bunch of dudes, your
Speaker 2: dad a monster affair, you know you're gonna be like
Speaker 2: the pretty girl.
Speaker 1: In the dress.
Speaker 2: Like how are you going to do that?
Speaker 1: No way, You're going to be.
Speaker 2: One of the lost boys, gonna be a tomboy you
Speaker 2: want to be. So I went whole hard on that,
Speaker 2: you know, hot off on my hair, went for the tomboy,
Speaker 2: the damming you know thing, and really turned that, tried
Speaker 2: to turn that character into somebody a different interpretation of
Speaker 2: that role. And got you know, got the park, got
Speaker 2: to do it. We moved it to Broadway and I
Speaker 2: may mayor Broadway debut doing that, and I thought, no,
Speaker 2: you don't have You can be a character actor in
Speaker 2: a conta news package. You can be is what we're
Speaker 2: always doing character acting. I mean we're creating characters, right, Like,
Speaker 2: aren't we supposed to be doing that. We're not supposed
Speaker 2: to be doing the audience's interpretation of what the leading
Speaker 2: lady is. We're supposed to bring who we are married,
Speaker 2: well read on the page, the text work that we do,
Speaker 2: the work we do with the other actors, the work
Speaker 2: we do with the director, and create something that's fresh.
Speaker 2: So I felt that and that's part of just because
Speaker 2: I went to school and I was taught to do
Speaker 2: the deep, you know, mining of the character. So when
Speaker 2: I got the role, this is all leading up to
Speaker 2: when I got the role of Elsbeth, I tried to
Speaker 2: apply the same principles to that as I add to
Speaker 2: these Shakespeare roles, like what are we going to do
Speaker 2: with this character that makes her different?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: How do I bring myself? What am I going to do?
Speaker 2: How does this woman think? You know? Just started doing
Speaker 2: that deeper work and not just be now part of
Speaker 2: it was that was written, but you know, not just
Speaker 2: be like the the lawyer of the week, like what
Speaker 2: can we do this? Something something singular, and the fact
Speaker 2: that they were given they gave me that license, the
Speaker 2: fantastic that always starts with the page, but they gave
Speaker 2: me that license and then kept inviting me back to
Speaker 2: well yeah, and then it became this alchemy between what
Speaker 2: they were writing and what I was doing and you know,
Speaker 2: here we are, but there's no guarantee that like we
Speaker 2: would get to do a show that way. Well, like
Speaker 2: when they told me this was in twenty twenty, when
Speaker 2: Robert Michelle you know, reached out to me because it
Speaker 2: was COVID. We were all locked down. They were seeing
Speaker 2: the end of the good fight. They knew that that
Speaker 2: was going to be coming to an end soon, and
Speaker 2: they were like, what are we going to do next?
Speaker 2: And they had been rewatching episodes of Colombo and they
Speaker 2: were like, huh, maybe that's maybe we could put Elsbeth
Speaker 2: Tasioni in a situation like that. Then simultaneously, Elizabeth Vincent Telly,
Speaker 2: who's a writer at the New York Times, wrote an
Speaker 2: article about what she was doing during COVID was watching
Speaker 2: episodes of Colombo, and the last line of the article was,
Speaker 2: we don't need a reboot of Colombo. Just give Elsbeth
Speaker 2: Tasioni her own show. No, yes, And then I'm just
Speaker 2: saying hills, right. So Robert and Michelle they saw that
Speaker 2: Robinda Michelle King and they saw that and they were like, Okay,
Speaker 2: that's like, this is weird because this is how what
Speaker 2: we were thinking. And then they started the process. But
Speaker 2: that was in twenty twenty and they called and they
Speaker 2: were like, do you want to do this? I was like,
Speaker 2: uh yeah, I mean obviously, obviously, and then it just
Speaker 2: wouldn't happen, wouldn't happen for years, and I was like, Okay,
Speaker 2: I guess it's not going to happen. And then, you
Speaker 2: know whatever, a year and a half ago.
Speaker 1: And now Elizabeth is vack. When you look back to
Speaker 1: the beginning, you know, when you talk about that character work,
Speaker 1: you know, the ways you wanted to build her into
Speaker 1: more than just a lawyer of the week. What are
Speaker 1: the things that you started to noodle with fifteen years
Speaker 1: ago that have become so core to your character.
Speaker 2: Now, Yeah, that's a good question because I don't like
Speaker 2: to revisit like my past work too much. Yeah, in
Speaker 2: my head, I also am like, oh I look so
Speaker 2: much younger, you know, and I go to like crazy
Speaker 2: places everybody else.
Speaker 1: It's really weird to have to watch yourself be a
Speaker 1: human on film.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: Mostly they're just in our bodies looking out. So it
Speaker 1: happened to look at yourself all the time. It's weird.
Speaker 1: It's a weird experience.
Speaker 2: It's a weird experience, and it can really mess you up.
Speaker 2: So I try not to do that. But or we
Speaker 2: started the series that L was at the series, I thought, well,
Speaker 2: just go back because I'd like to see like what
Speaker 2: I did back then, because I don't remember it was fifteen,
Speaker 2: I'd like to see. So I watched Elsa's first appearance
Speaker 2: and it was fascint. First of all, it was like,
Speaker 2: I know what, I know, you must relate to this.
Speaker 2: It's like watching somebody else.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like it's almost like watching your sister. Yeah yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: they look like you. Yeah, they look like you were familiar,
Speaker 1: but also like a stranger, like a stranger.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like revisiting this person that you used to be. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Or it's like maybe she was like my child or something.
Speaker 2: There was something I felt very I felt very maternal
Speaker 2: towards her, you know, like this, but I could tell
Speaker 2: that I was, you know, I was finding my way.
Speaker 2: I mean, this was like a guest spot, you know, so,
Speaker 2: and you're there. When you're a guest spot, which I've
Speaker 2: done so very many of it in my career. You're
Speaker 2: there to serve.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you're.
Speaker 2: There to serve what they need to do, to be
Speaker 2: a support to those other actors. And I love I
Speaker 2: love that. But there's a lot of pressure too, because
Speaker 2: you can't go in there and start like messing or it.
Speaker 2: You know, they they've hired you. They've hired you to
Speaker 2: be the pinch hitter to come in, do you know,
Speaker 2: do the same, because we don't have time. We've got
Speaker 2: to get this thing done. But I knew sit on
Speaker 2: the page there was something that was a sparkle to
Speaker 2: this character that I knew they wanted me to do
Speaker 2: something different. And then fifteen years ago, Robert King said
Speaker 2: to me, we're thinking about her like a female Columbo.
Speaker 2: And I said, oh, okay, I think I know what
Speaker 2: that means. That they want her to be unexpected unconventional. Oh,
Speaker 2: I want her to be somebody that the audience and
Speaker 2: then the people around her don't seek coming. So I
Speaker 2: just thought, let me pick that out. And you can
Speaker 2: see that I was tentatively doing it. But it was there,
Speaker 2: you know, the the kind of odd way in which
Speaker 2: she thinks and stuff. It was there, but I wasn't
Speaker 2: really letting the full freak flag flaw yet because I
Speaker 2: didn't know if it was okay to do that, you know, right,
Speaker 2: And so I did a couple of episodes at the
Speaker 2: end of season one, and then I didn't hear anything
Speaker 2: for an entire season. So I thought I blew it.
Speaker 2: I thought I didn't do enough or I did too
Speaker 2: much for something, so I let it go, said goodbye.
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, well, I did it. I did it.
Speaker 2: It was fun. People seem to like it, but you know,
Speaker 2: that's it. And then they caught me back in season
Speaker 2: three and they were like, okay, we have a whole
Speaker 2: like her.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: And then I was able to go, oh, okay. And
Speaker 2: then I worked with the director and the show, you know,
Speaker 2: I worked with them and and they they kind of
Speaker 2: pushed me, you know, to to go further with what
Speaker 2: I was starting to do.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, it's interesting because as someone who's observing, you know,
Speaker 1: from the outside into your world, I see that there's
Speaker 1: so much wonderful praise for your depiction of this character
Speaker 1: that people feel really seen and really represented, and they
Speaker 1: talk about how she is a really positive example of
Speaker 1: neurodivergence and brilliance, and folks talk about, you know, she's
Speaker 1: got traits of ADHD and I'm like, thank you for
Speaker 1: putting us on TV too, you know, traits that could
Speaker 1: be identified as being on the autism spectrum? Are those
Speaker 1: things that you have studied and consciously thought about, you know,
Speaker 1: do you get into a Colombo esque character with obsession
Speaker 1: for detail and pattern recognition and things that we now
Speaker 1: know are often signs of that sort of like neurodivergence, sparkliness.
Speaker 1: Did they come naturally because of something like you said
Speaker 1: that was on the page and then you started to
Speaker 1: realize what you were representing or is it kind of
Speaker 1: a mixed bag of all of it.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm very careful and the writers and everyone on
Speaker 2: the show is are very careful to never diagnose Yes.
Speaker 2: I find that that would then become a definitive and
Speaker 2: then I would have to represent Zach thing and then
Speaker 2: I would ultimately and we would ultimately not live up
Speaker 2: to that because everybody is different. What I find really
Speaker 2: fascinating about playing her is that, and what people seem
Speaker 2: to respond to is that she is decidedly that who
Speaker 2: she is, and it's a unique and singular just like
Speaker 2: anybody who's on what the spectrum of humanity. And you
Speaker 2: know what I mean. And so I've honored you know
Speaker 2: that I'm given that responsibility but also that gift and
Speaker 2: of playing somebody that has that kind of mind that
Speaker 2: is so unique, that is ingenious, and that also tender,
Speaker 2: vulnerable mind and and smart and extremely capable. So what
Speaker 2: I love about it is that I feel like it's
Speaker 2: it's a story about a unique person who is entrusted
Speaker 2: with a great amount of responsibility. But it's also about
Speaker 2: a woman who's of a certain age who is reinventing herself. Yeah,
Speaker 2: he isn't settled into who. She's trying to improve herself.
Speaker 2: She's trying to change things that she's done in the past. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: To love that path, the journey of self discovery, of
Speaker 1: learning self inventory. What I love about what you're saying
Speaker 1: is it's it's so universal. And then I imagine in
Speaker 1: a way, because you can see, you see who she is,
Speaker 1: you have a representation to how her brain works in
Speaker 1: its own way. But I think the sort of ingenious
Speaker 1: thing about not to your point deciding on any specific
Speaker 1: term or specific diagnosis, is that by being in that spectrum,
Speaker 1: so many people get to see themselves in you on screen.
Speaker 1: You know, in a way, being so incredibly specific about
Speaker 1: who Elsbeth is allows you to be universal for so
Speaker 1: many people.
Speaker 2: And I think you just put your finger on I
Speaker 2: think just acting, you know, and onsibilities as actors is
Speaker 2: as specific as possible, so that, yeah, it has become
Speaker 2: something that everyone can find a way into.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's a good.
Speaker 2: Actor because you understand that.
Speaker 1: Oh that's so kind coming from you. I think about
Speaker 1: the women that you've built this world with as well.
Speaker 1: I mean, talk about the three of you, incredible actors.
Speaker 1: You Juliana Marghlis, the iconic Christine Baranski. I once was
Speaker 1: at some event with her and she like walked by
Speaker 1: and I heard myself and I know she heard me.
Speaker 1: I went oh, and I was like, oh, don't be
Speaker 1: the weirdo who like gasps, because you see this amazing woman.
Speaker 1: And and I think about these shows, you know, three
Speaker 1: of these shows that have built out this world and
Speaker 1: your your your creators. You've mentioned them, Robert and Michelle.
Speaker 1: Oh are they just the coolest people to work with?
Speaker 2: It?
Speaker 1: I feel as a viewer like they really love and
Speaker 1: respect women and our intellect, not just our capabilities as
Speaker 1: you know, mothers or leaders or whatever, but but our prowess.
Speaker 2: Is it just.
Speaker 1: What's your sort of experience like on that side? You know,
Speaker 1: how do you all work as a team, How do
Speaker 1: you figure out what you want the show to look
Speaker 1: like and feel like? Or have you just been doing
Speaker 1: it together for so long now that it's almost second nature?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean, well, the thing about Robert and Michelle
Speaker 2: King is they are incredibly strong leaders. And part of
Speaker 2: that leadership is that they empower all of their team. So,
Speaker 2: and I know this because I've also worked with them
Speaker 2: as a director, because I've directed some I directed some
Speaker 2: episodes of The Good Fight, and so I got to
Speaker 2: be a part of, you know, the prep, which is
Speaker 2: where you really see how how the people who are
Speaker 2: in charge of the show convey what it is that
Speaker 2: they need uh director to do. And so I also
Speaker 2: feel like they they build like a real ensemble of
Speaker 2: actors that they keep going back to and they enjoy
Speaker 2: working with, Like they find the people that they that
Speaker 2: speak the same language as them, and then they continue
Speaker 2: to employ them. When I when we went into Elsbeth
Speaker 2: uh and this show got picked up to series, you know,
Speaker 2: one of the first thing I did was I texted
Speaker 2: Christine Baranski and I texted Julianna Margalliz, and I thanked
Speaker 2: them because I wouldn't be here without them, and that
Speaker 2: I felt this great responsibility and privilege of kind of
Speaker 2: picking up the baton and carrying it forward. Robert and
Speaker 2: Michelle did the same thing with one of their former
Speaker 2: writers who had been with them, Jonathan Tolans. They passed
Speaker 2: the baton to him. And John Plans is our showrunner,
Speaker 2: so their exec producer runs our show, He runs our
Speaker 2: writers room. He's the one who has really created this world.
Speaker 2: He took what Robert and Michelle did with the pilot,
Speaker 2: honored it, and then they gave him the power to
Speaker 2: really shape it into his show. They're they're involved, of course,
Speaker 2: but John is is our is our guy I call
Speaker 2: when he comes to set, I call him Daddy.
Speaker 1: I'm him.
Speaker 2: He's very receptive to any input that I need to have,
Speaker 2: which is pretty I don't really have that much that
Speaker 2: I need to say because the writing is so great
Speaker 2: and I do so so great about it. But if
Speaker 2: I have a question, very receptive. So there is, you know,
Speaker 2: this sense of not controlling but leading.
Speaker 1: Yeah, gosh, that's beautiful. And now a word from our
Speaker 1: sponsors that I really enjoy and I think you will too.
Speaker 1: It must just be the kind of place that constantly
Speaker 1: makes you feel like you get to grow. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think about you know, even as you said, you
Speaker 1: know you're I can't believe you're fifty eight. That's I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm like, what, But you know, you talk about your
Speaker 1: early career and everyone's looking for the next entrenou and
Speaker 1: it is really profound two at least for me as
Speaker 1: a viewer, and I would imagine for you as an
Speaker 1: actor to continue the fact that you're continuing to build
Speaker 1: your own world, you know, in a in an industry
Speaker 1: where we've all been told, well, once you're forty, you'll
Speaker 1: never work again, and it's like, I'm.
Speaker 2: Gonna work forever, and look at you.
Speaker 1: You're building this space and this show is so wonderful,
Speaker 1: and the reception to it is so wonderful. And you know,
Speaker 1: you get to work with people that you love, you
Speaker 1: get to be partners with Jonathan, you know.
Speaker 2: Your husband came and guest starred on your show.
Speaker 1: It's like, you look like you're having a really good time.
Speaker 2: I am. I'm having the time of my life. I am.
Speaker 2: And when I'm not, you know, because it's hard. The schedules,
Speaker 2: you do, know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Tough.
Speaker 2: You know, it's a tough schedule. Like you know, we're
Speaker 2: doing those episodes in eight or nine days, and I'm
Speaker 2: in pretty much every you know scene. So it's it's
Speaker 2: I don't have very much. And whenever I'm not on,
Speaker 2: whenever I'm not saying words, I'm learning other words. And
Speaker 2: so it's you know, it's there's a lot of juggling.
Speaker 2: But I'm like, I've always been a multitasker. I mean,
Speaker 2: I think one thing that Elsbetasioni and I have in
Speaker 2: common is that we both are pretty good at multitasking. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I love that, so I can bring that, you know,
Speaker 2: to the character and stuff. But I am having the
Speaker 2: time of my life because that it has come at
Speaker 2: this time. I mean, I said, I was fifty eight,
Speaker 2: I will be at fifty eight and two months, but
Speaker 2: I feel like I'm already fifty eight. Fifty seven will
Speaker 2: be fifty eight and two months. But but yeah, so
Speaker 2: I feel like, you know, it's not I don't want
Speaker 2: to waste a moment. You know, well, you're you're on fire,
Speaker 2: although as long as they'll let me do it, I'm
Speaker 2: you don't want to do it.
Speaker 1: Does this experience at this stage because to your point,
Speaker 1: you know, you've you've been a working actor for a
Speaker 1: long time, You've got an incredible career. But does this
Speaker 1: moment you know, the tough of the schedule, sure, but
Speaker 1: also the excitement to be doing it and you so
Speaker 1: clearly love the work, the writing, all of it. Does
Speaker 1: it shift your perspective on your own midlife? Does it
Speaker 1: kind of reconstitute for you what longevity means? Feels like, looks.
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, yeah, it really does. I mean sometimes I
Speaker 2: have these thoughts of like why did I give this?
Speaker 2: Did somebody give me this responsibility? When I was like
Speaker 2: in my you know, where it was, I had this
Speaker 2: endless amount of energy, and I thought, well, because that
Speaker 2: wasn't the time, like you know, and it wasn't lined up.
Speaker 2: It wasn't lined up. When I was doing shows in
Speaker 2: my thirties, they were all like, all the leads were
Speaker 2: like dudes, you know, so you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: It was just like, yeah, it had to be now,
Speaker 2: It had to be time when you know, I was
Speaker 2: going to be the show that comes on after Kathy Bates. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, like it just sort of needed to be that,
Speaker 2: and maybe I needed to have a little bit more
Speaker 2: of it. Maybe I needed to be a little more
Speaker 2: seasoned to bring you know, some of the I don't know,
Speaker 2: just some of what it is to be at this
Speaker 2: at this late in my late fifties and doing this.
Speaker 2: You know, it's a different person than was back then.
Speaker 2: And I also but.
Speaker 1: It's just tremendously interesting.
Speaker 2: Sting to cut you off there, but I'm like, wait,
Speaker 2: it's so cool. Yeah, I know. I feel that I
Speaker 2: feel that way, and I feel I feel a responsibility
Speaker 2: to represent a woman of that age who's not attached
Speaker 2: to a man, who's not a who's not about, you know,
Speaker 2: beauty on the outside as much as she is about
Speaker 2: beauty in the brain and and love and joy and
Speaker 2: positivity and overcoming things and beyond things and just all
Speaker 2: She's infectious. It infects me, yeah, play.
Speaker 1: And everything about her, you know, from the way her
Speaker 1: brain works to even the way she moves through the world.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm obsessed with her obsession with tote bags.
Speaker 2: You know, it's such a fun little quirk.
Speaker 1: It's a detail that is fun for me as an
Speaker 1: actor to think about you coming up with and I
Speaker 1: you know, I love having like the big, motivational, artistic conversation,
Speaker 1: and then part of me is so curious, like, what
Speaker 1: do you think is the weirdest thing in her bag?
Speaker 2: Well, we did a whole episode where we had a
Speaker 2: con Mari type person played by the brilliant Mary Luise Parker,
Speaker 2: who I'm obsessed with icon icon I mean the icons
Speaker 2: that I've gotten to work with on this show Yond Beyond.
Speaker 2: But anyway, she makes me go through my toes and
Speaker 2: I was very worried. I even said to John Tolanz,
Speaker 2: I was like, I called him. I don't usually do that,
Speaker 2: but I called him and said, I am worried. I
Speaker 2: don't know if we want to open up the mystery bag.
Speaker 2: Don't you think it's more interesting curious about what's in
Speaker 2: the bag than showing showing what's you know, because it's
Speaker 2: sort of like, we don't want to talk too much
Speaker 2: about her brain because it's more interesting and surprising to
Speaker 2: just watch her do her thing. And he assured me that,
Speaker 2: you know, that we would do it in a way
Speaker 2: that was responsible, and I was, and I, you know,
Speaker 2: I said, well, we need to at least talk about
Speaker 2: her emotional connection to it. That it's not just just
Speaker 2: carrying much of random things around. There's a really carrying
Speaker 2: them around. And I always think about it in terms
Speaker 2: of it's like a security blanket, or it's something that
Speaker 2: you know, makes her feel confident, armored. It's like armored
Speaker 2: she's bringing out into the world. And that just means
Speaker 2: that there are a lot of things in there that
Speaker 2: you think she said you might need. That could be
Speaker 2: a sandwich because she's hungry later, and some string cheese,
Speaker 2: but also you know some uh you know, the Encyclopedia
Speaker 2: Britannica and Atticus, like just whatever it is that she
Speaker 2: thinks she might need to help unlock something, you know,
Speaker 2: And so I think about it that way. And then,
Speaker 2: and I've talked about this before, I made the decision
Speaker 2: pretty early on that when Elspeth shows up to solve
Speaker 2: the crime, to make the arrest. She doesn't have the
Speaker 2: bags because she is an.
Speaker 1: She's not in the process of solving.
Speaker 2: Right. I love, she's an encumbered and she's you know,
Speaker 2: stands in her own you know, confidence and truth in
Speaker 2: that moment.
Speaker 1: That's very very cool. That's very cool. Are there other
Speaker 1: things you've found her through in terms of decision making?
Speaker 1: Like do you know what her favorite cocktail is? Does
Speaker 1: she have a favorite snack? Is there is there like
Speaker 1: a must have wardrobe item for her that goes along
Speaker 1: with her toolkit in her bags? You know, what are
Speaker 1: some of the things you've selected for her that we
Speaker 1: might know or that we might not.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean well, first of all, I there we
Speaker 2: have the most genius costume designer working in the business,
Speaker 2: Daniel lot awesome, who's costumed good Wife, Good Fight Elsbeth
Speaker 2: like the through line, the character doesn't exist without him.
Speaker 2: I go up and stand there like a paper doll,
Speaker 2: and he hands me the character. Yes, so I totally
Speaker 2: completely trust him. Our fittings are epic. The closet that
Speaker 2: he builds for me is it takes like the almost
Speaker 2: half of the whole. You know, thousands of clothes and
Speaker 2: they're just so so delightful and so specific. Started coming
Speaker 2: up with this idea that because Elizabeth has moved to
Speaker 2: New York and she's such a tourist and she loves
Speaker 2: New York so much. Yeah, wherever she goes in, whatever
Speaker 2: crime in the world of the crime that she goes into,
Speaker 2: she gets a little something from it. Yeah, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean. So we find like tope bags from
Speaker 2: the little We had an episode about tennis, so I
Speaker 2: have like a little brooch sometimes that I wear these
Speaker 2: tennis reckets and then the like towards the end of
Speaker 2: the season, Dan came in and he was like, don't
Speaker 2: you think Elsbeth is probably playing pickleball by now? I mean,
Speaker 2: I would have never thought of that, but I'm like,
Speaker 2: of course she's playing kickballs because everyone's playing pickleball, and
Speaker 2: I'm sure she's satelite, but she's going to go in
Speaker 2: there and try to do it. So he had this
Speaker 2: little roaches that was pickleball, a little pickleball how and
Speaker 2: we just put that on. So he I work so
Speaker 2: closely with the costume department and with him. You know,
Speaker 2: I'll come, I'll find some some knitted thing and I'll say,
Speaker 2: don't you think that she needs to be wearing this?
Speaker 2: And we will put that in there, or you know,
Speaker 2: a certain boat or whatever. And so we we find
Speaker 2: those little details together as far as like way way
Speaker 2: earlier on and good Wife Elisath said, you don't want
Speaker 2: to see me drunk. You don't want to see me drinking.
Speaker 2: I'm I'm so she doesn't drink, so it's right, but
Speaker 2: she but she loves Shirley Temples. So the prop department
Speaker 2: what they will do with a Shirley Temple for me,
Speaker 2: Like we will show up and they'll say, see, there's
Speaker 2: a place for you to have a Shirley Temple if
Speaker 2: we've do like a scene in a restaurant or a bar.
Speaker 2: And so we did this. We did this episode that
Speaker 2: was set in a restaurant. It was about a chef
Speaker 2: played by the again another person I worship, Pamela Adlin
Speaker 2: played a chef brilliant and we're in this like super
Speaker 2: high end restaurant and they had, you know, Shirley temple,
Speaker 2: and I was like, no, let's put it in the
Speaker 2: tiniest little glass because all the food is tiny, yes,
Speaker 2: tiny Shirley Temple. And then I'm gonna try to drink it. Yes,
Speaker 2: So they put it there and I was like, they're
Speaker 2: going to cut this, but I did this whole lotsy
Speaker 2: with this whole bit, with the trying to drink the thing,
Speaker 2: with the thing and the little umbrella and stuff, and
Speaker 2: just like having the hardest time with it, and thankfully
Speaker 2: they kept it in the cut. They fighting a lot
Speaker 2: of my little I call them El's bits, caught the
Speaker 2: l's bits because you know, they have to time and
Speaker 2: plot and story. But when they keep my little, my
Speaker 2: little moments in, I'm always very vitorius, so much fun.
Speaker 1: And you know, it isn't lost on me that you,
Speaker 1: with this platform that you've built, you've you know, not
Speaker 1: only leaned into such great content, but you use your
Speaker 1: platform for advocacy. You know, you support LGBTQ rights with glad,
Speaker 1: you work with Michael Fox Foundation and support folks battling Parkinson's.
Speaker 1: You know, how how do you decide what you're going
Speaker 1: to lend your time to and and and how you're
Speaker 1: going to show.
Speaker 2: Up Like, yeah, I can think it's just you know,
Speaker 2: being raised by my parents were very much about you know,
Speaker 2: supporting acceptance, love and uh and and advocating for people
Speaker 2: who maybe don't have a voice, or people who disenfranchised,
Speaker 2: and you know, early early on, like in college and stuff.
Speaker 2: I always feel feel like I still am feel like
Speaker 2: even I'm married to a man, I'm very much part
Speaker 2: of the queer community. So I feel like I want
Speaker 2: to bring a voice to them, and especially now when
Speaker 2: their voices are being taken away. Early on in my career,
Speaker 2: when I started directing, I started making movies and projects
Speaker 2: for the LGBTQ audience. Twenty five years ago, there wasn't
Speaker 2: as much content and so and I wanted my my
Speaker 2: producing partners, and I wanted to make, you know, projects
Speaker 2: that were less about uh maybe romantic relationships and more
Speaker 2: about you know, coming coming of age. Or we made
Speaker 2: a movie called Ready Okay about a little boy who
Speaker 2: wants to be a cheerleader and just mother and how
Speaker 2: she's struggling with her kid being different. And so, you know,
Speaker 2: making something that you could show at a p FLAG meeting,
Speaker 2: you know, something that you could take your parents to
Speaker 2: and go, this is this is this is what I'm
Speaker 2: going through Your ways to do that and tell stories
Speaker 2: that way. I do believe that stories have the power
Speaker 2: to change the world and so we as artists are
Speaker 2: responsible for changing the world a lot of the time.
Speaker 2: And so I feel, you know a lot of privilege
Speaker 2: and responsibility in telling those stories and bringing them to light.
Speaker 2: And then also, you know, my father passed away from
Speaker 2: complications from parkinson So watchould and go through that for
Speaker 2: twenty years. One of my best best friends has partners
Speaker 2: is my you know, a cousin mine has part like
Speaker 2: it's there are a lot of people we have Parkinson's
Speaker 2: in this world and they're making great strides. Michael J. Fox.
Speaker 2: I remember I did an episode to Spend City way back,
Speaker 2: got to you know, meet Michael J. Fox and when
Speaker 2: he was first starting to deal with Pardinson's and just
Speaker 2: being so impressed with how he was using his platform,
Speaker 2: and it said his organized organization has made Yeah, it's
Speaker 2: just so important to keep an eye on that so
Speaker 2: that we as you know, as as the as the
Speaker 2: audience and we as fellow humans can continue to support
Speaker 2: that and bring you know, a light to that so
Speaker 2: that it continues to grow.
Speaker 1: And yeah, it's beautiful. And I think when you get
Speaker 1: to harness you know, the attention that your job comes with,
Speaker 1: and help make sure you can transmute that toward other
Speaker 1: folks who needed. It's such a it's such a gift
Speaker 1: that comes with all the other crazy stuff that you know,
Speaker 1: we do and deal with. And yeah, it's always really
Speaker 1: exciting for me to to see the things that people
Speaker 1: are so passionate about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, I know, and I do it in
Speaker 2: a quieter way, I think, maybe than some people would wish.
Speaker 2: But I just feel like I want to be you know,
Speaker 2: I want to just do the work and be authentic
Speaker 2: to to the to the activism. Also being you know myself,
Speaker 2: which is somebody who is just a loving and you know,
Speaker 2: joyful person you know out in the world as well,
Speaker 2: you know, somebody who's appreciative, appreciative of of the place
Speaker 2: that I'm you know, a privileged to be in as well.
Speaker 1: I think that's great. And now a word from our sponsors.
Speaker 1: When you sit and you think about you know, continuing
Speaker 1: this show you love, uh, being in this place in
Speaker 1: your life that you love and you know what comes next?
Speaker 1: What what feels like You're work in progress now?
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm constantly trying to do this. Do it
Speaker 2: a spiritual work, you know. I mean, I like my parents,
Speaker 2: we weren't. We weren't religious per se, but we were
Speaker 2: very and you know, my parents were always you know,
Speaker 2: my parents had a commune at one point. You know,
Speaker 2: we were very like trying to find an alternative way
Speaker 2: of thinking love that been interested in mindfulness, practice Buddhism,
Speaker 2: you know, uh meditation. And it took me a long
Speaker 2: time to get to a place where I had like
Speaker 2: a daily practice because I'm a hummingbird.
Speaker 1: Really hard to like subtle, I feel that.
Speaker 2: H And so that's my work, is that I'm constantly
Speaker 2: trying to ground down into uh mindfulness and finding compassion
Speaker 2: and empathy for myself and for and that's sort of
Speaker 2: my daily I just started at what I'm calling a
Speaker 2: grat text thread with my closest some of my day ones,
Speaker 2: my wride dies, girlfriends, and you know, we're just every
Speaker 2: day we grat text and it's just got to do
Speaker 2: just three things, just three things you're grateful for. And
Speaker 2: it really does open up a conversation and open up
Speaker 2: a way of looking at your life. And I'm looking
Speaker 2: at the world and trying to be aware of constantly
Speaker 2: aware of you know, not everybody has the privileges that
Speaker 2: I have. And you know, figuring out a way to
Speaker 2: harness that empathy and compassion for the good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's beautiful because you're you know, you're talking about
Speaker 1: the things out there and the things in here, and
Speaker 1: I think it's special to try to hold all that space.
Speaker 1: It's special work.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's necessary, I think, especially for where we are
Speaker 2: in the world right now, which is kind of divided.
Speaker 2: And yeah, yeah, well I.
Speaker 1: So appreciate it. I mean, I'm I'm so inspired by
Speaker 1: you as an artist and it's a real treat to
Speaker 1: get to sit and just be inspired by you as
Speaker 1: a human. We all love the show. Thank you for
Speaker 1: all that hard work and all those crazy hours. You
Speaker 1: really you bring us all a lot of joy.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you, and thanks for having thanks for
Speaker 2: such a lad nurturing the conversation.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you for joining us. It means a
Speaker 1: lot