Speaker 1: Hi, everybody.
Speaker 2: Welcome to The Phillies Show with Ruben Morrow Junior, Jim Salisbury.
Speaker 2: I am Todd's Lucky. We are coming to you early
Speaker 2: Friday morning, April twenty sixth, twenty twenty four. The Phillies
Speaker 2: have split a series in Cincinnati.
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Speaker 1: So the Phillies Philly split.
Speaker 2: In Cincinnati and Zach Wheeler yesterday keeps doing what Zach
Speaker 2: Wheeler does. Ranger Suarez opens a series by doing what
Speaker 2: Ranger Suarez does, which is not allowing a run. And
Speaker 2: you know, I thought Zach Wheeler said something interesting yesterday.
Speaker 2: So he has made two consecutive starts six or more innings,
Speaker 2: one hit in each start. It's only a second pitcher
Speaker 2: in the modern era Phillies modern era to do that.
Speaker 2: And what I think you guys can appreciate is after
Speaker 2: the game, we talked to zach about his performance and
Speaker 2: he basically says, eh, walk too many guys, walk too
Speaker 2: many guys.
Speaker 1: Got to clean that up. The results are good, but I.
Speaker 2: Walked many guys, And to me, that just sounded like
Speaker 2: something that a great pitcher says, you know, and I
Speaker 2: just thought that was really impressive.
Speaker 1: You know, this is a guy with high standards.
Speaker 2: He came into the season learning a splitter because he says,
Speaker 2: I want to win the cy Young this year. This
Speaker 2: is what's something that I want to do, which I
Speaker 2: also thought was cool because anytime you talk to players,
Speaker 2: understandably so they don't like to really get into their
Speaker 2: goals things they want to accomplish this year because then
Speaker 2: you know, ah, you said you want to hit thirty
Speaker 2: home runs and now you've only got sixteen coming into August.
Speaker 2: But zach wa is like, no, I want to win
Speaker 2: the sy Young this year, so I'm learning another pitch
Speaker 2: because I think it's going to help me do that.
Speaker 2: What kind of jumped out to you guys about some
Speaker 2: of these pitching performances or Zach's performance in the series
Speaker 2: finale on Thursday.
Speaker 5: Well, the whole season has been jumping out at me.
Speaker 5: Pitching wise. They're off to a great start. You know,
Speaker 5: Zach another really good one yesterday. I think you had
Speaker 5: that one kind of tough inning where he through. You know,
Speaker 5: they worked him a little bit, he ran his pitch
Speaker 5: count a little bit. But I mean your point is
Speaker 5: so good about him coming out and saying he wants
Speaker 5: to win a sy Young. I remember once talking to
Speaker 5: call Himmels early in his career and he said he
Speaker 5: wants to go to the Hall of Fame. Remember that, Todd.
Speaker 5: That was early in his career, and he wasn't He
Speaker 5: didn't shy away from those goals. And I liked that
Speaker 5: as well. I think Zach should have won the cy
Speaker 5: Young a couple of years ago. I think he's well
Speaker 5: equipped and off to a great start this year to
Speaker 5: possibly do it. But you know, you talk about he
Speaker 5: wasn't real happy. That's a sign of the great ones.
Speaker 5: They're never satisfied. There's always something they can work on
Speaker 5: always something they can do, and it's illustrated by his
Speaker 5: you know, mid career desire to learn a splitter and
Speaker 5: to go to work on that and try to perfect
Speaker 5: it and it should make him better. Like I think
Speaker 5: Shilling and Shilling and Clemens were two power guys who
Speaker 5: added it, you know, maybe mid career. It made a
Speaker 5: really big difference for them. So it's gonna be a
Speaker 5: lot of fun to continue to watch this guy work
Speaker 5: throughout the season because he's got the skill, he's got
Speaker 5: the talent, and he's got the drive to do something
Speaker 5: really special. And I think something that is paramount for
Speaker 5: him is in that entire clubhouse is winning a championship,
Speaker 5: and I think they can do that as well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I totally agree with you, Jim about the you know,
Speaker 3: for me, it's about what this guy brings to the
Speaker 3: table on the mound every single day and the accountability.
Speaker 3: I've been around some unbelievably accountable guys. Roy Halliday comes
Speaker 3: to mind. I mean Roy Halliday was one of those
Speaker 3: guys that would, you know, if he didn't have a
Speaker 3: good outing or he didn't have a like a dominant outing,
Speaker 3: he would basically say, you know, I'm sorry, I didn't
Speaker 3: perform the way I should perform.
Speaker 4: I mean, who does that?
Speaker 5: Nobody remember remember when he apologized thought in Arizona he
Speaker 5: came into the dugout and he said, Roy Halliday had
Speaker 5: not been pitching. Well, I'm sorry to interrupted Rubin. The
Speaker 5: accountability just flashed right before my eyes. We were in Arizona.
Speaker 5: He came out with like a handwritten statement and he said,
Speaker 5: I want to say something to the fans, and gathered
Speaker 5: the writers and he read this. He apologized for like
Speaker 5: three bad stars.
Speaker 3: Do you remember that, Todd?
Speaker 1: I do remember that.
Speaker 2: In fact, this actually sparks a story that I have
Speaker 2: about Roy, and Matt Gelb reminded me of this this week.
Speaker 2: He said, walking in the clubhouse in Cincinnati, he says,
Speaker 2: two things jump out. He said, one was Cole Hamill's
Speaker 2: pitching performance after Game three the twenty NLDS. He said,
Speaker 2: the other one was on Roy Halliday. I thought he
Speaker 2: was going to murder you, and.
Speaker 1: So Ruben.
Speaker 2: So this was Roy's first year and he had he
Speaker 2: struggled in this sense that I think it was two
Speaker 2: or three consecutive starts or ten or more hits now
Speaker 2: post game, and he lost this game I think he
Speaker 2: pitched eight innings and he like.
Speaker 1: Gave it up late.
Speaker 2: They lost four to three, and we're talking to Charlie afterwards,
Speaker 2: and Charlie goes, I'll do my best, charliem pressure goes, yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, sometimes I wonder if he's around the plate
Speaker 2: too much.
Speaker 1: You know, he just throws too I so now you know,
Speaker 1: like Ruben you said, he he is when he loses,
Speaker 1: he is so mad. Roy was so mad. So he
Speaker 1: comes out, he's just you know, steam coming out of
Speaker 1: his nostrils and stuff.
Speaker 3: And I go, excuse me, Roy, Uh, do you ever
Speaker 3: think you're around the plate too much?
Speaker 1: And he throw too many strikes?
Speaker 2: And he he turned and looked at me like he
Speaker 2: was going to murder me, And it reminded me of
Speaker 2: that that line in Rocky four when Drago goes.
Speaker 1: Uh, if he dies, he dies, yeah.
Speaker 2: And he looked he looked at me and he goes no,
Speaker 2: And I was like, I got it, I got it,
Speaker 2: I got it.
Speaker 5: But anyway, continue on.
Speaker 3: That's so I think, what the cool thing that I've
Speaker 3: seen about about Zach Wheeler. He's I don't know, I
Speaker 3: got a crush on him right now because I've watched
Speaker 3: him from twenty eighteen as a coach with the Mets.
Speaker 3: I watched his half second half of the season there.
Speaker 3: He was the best pitcher in baseball. No disrespect to
Speaker 3: to Debram who won the Cy Young that year, but
Speaker 3: if you look at his numbers, I mean, he was
Speaker 3: just fantastic. And I was thinking to myself, mind, this
Speaker 3: guy can really really pitch.
Speaker 4: And he learned how to pitch.
Speaker 3: He was a little more of a thrower, and he
Speaker 3: sort of developed his ability to utilize parts of the
Speaker 3: zone in a way that has just been brilliant, just brilliant,
Speaker 3: and I've loved. And it didn't have his good stuff.
Speaker 3: He did not have a sweeper yesterday, and it was
Speaker 3: really difficult for him to spin the baseball and to
Speaker 3: command it, especially early in the game. But he figured
Speaker 3: out a way. He grabbed a different pitch and said, Okay,
Speaker 3: I'm going to use my four seam and my splitter.
Speaker 3: I'm going to use my sinker from time to time
Speaker 3: move the ball around. And you know, to his credit, man,
Speaker 3: he just grinded it out and figured out a way
Speaker 3: to get it done.
Speaker 5: And that's such a great quality to have be able
Speaker 5: to any in any sport. Be able to adjust your
Speaker 5: game plan in real time, whether you have a headset
Speaker 5: down on the sidelines or whether you have a baseball
Speaker 5: in your hand. You alluded to it, but I wanted
Speaker 5: to ask you how much where's the biggest area of
Speaker 5: growth you've seen in Zach Wheeler from the time you're
Speaker 5: on the Mets coaching staff to what you see the
Speaker 5: last couple of years and this year in Philadelphia where
Speaker 5: he's just taking his game to a whole new level.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So for me, it's and you saw it in the
Speaker 3: middle of that inning, in the third inning when they
Speaker 3: were really grinding him out. He could not get his
Speaker 3: mechanics together. He couldn't get his body in the right
Speaker 3: position to make his pitches. And I think he talks
Speaker 3: about that a lot, and he figured it out somewhere
Speaker 3: in that inning along the way. He figured out how
Speaker 3: to get his pitch, which is to do what he
Speaker 3: wants them to do. And I think that that again,
Speaker 3: being able to it's almost like taking your back swing
Speaker 3: and then you know, going and stopping like Tiger Woods
Speaker 3: can I can't. I wish I could, and knowing that
Speaker 3: my back swing I'm not in the right position and
Speaker 3: stopping and then regrouping and then making your swing. It's
Speaker 3: sort of like the same thing to just be able
Speaker 3: to stop in the middle of the inning, especially when
Speaker 3: the clock is rolling on you, because you can't you
Speaker 3: can't stop the flow. And I think that maturity, that
Speaker 3: ability to handle that, and the ability to like switch
Speaker 3: to another pitch. I mean, he gave himself an arsenal
Speaker 3: whereby you know, he's got four or five pitches where
Speaker 3: he can go to a different pitch, or he can
Speaker 3: say to himself, you know what, I can't throw this pitch,
Speaker 3: but I can dot this pitch. You know, I can
Speaker 3: dot my fastball up and in or down in the way,
Speaker 3: or sink a pitch a few pitches and move the
Speaker 3: ball such that I can still be effective.
Speaker 5: So you look at this rotation and there's like, you know,
Speaker 5: ones and twos in terms of eras, I mean, Ranger
Speaker 5: and Spencer Turnbull and Zach Wheeler and Aaron Nola, they've
Speaker 5: all been terrific. And I'm starting I'm actually starting to
Speaker 5: see like little comparisons and I'm even being asked about it,
Speaker 5: little comparisons to two thousand and eleven. I mean, I
Speaker 5: think we all have perspective on that rotation. Todd and
Speaker 5: I covered that team Rubenue with the GM of that team.
Speaker 5: Todd and I wrote a book about that rotation. You know,
Speaker 5: for me, that's a rotation that and I know all
Speaker 5: what was hurt. They got some real good contributions from
Speaker 5: Vance Worley, Joe Blanton. But they did it over six
Speaker 5: months and this has been you know, three or four weeks.
Speaker 5: Now you've got to do it over six months. And
Speaker 5: I certainly think they're capable of doing it. I mean,
Speaker 5: hats off to what they've done so far. They haven't
Speaker 5: exactly faced iron lineups. I mean they've taken advantage of
Speaker 5: some weak lineups and you know, hey, you got to
Speaker 5: do that. But there will be tougher tests. But for me,
Speaker 5: the twenty eleven thing fun to talk about, fun to
Speaker 5: crystal ball a little bit, but you got to do
Speaker 5: it over six months. What about you, Todd? I mean,
Speaker 5: you have a lot of perspective on that rotation from
Speaker 5: twenty eleven and this one. What is your feeling all that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've been starting to hear the same or get
Speaker 2: the same questions on email, like, yeah, do you think
Speaker 2: this rotation can compare and I think we put this
Speaker 2: in the book and it's still and I double checked
Speaker 2: this just the other day because I was just out
Speaker 2: of curiosity. Now, war is not the end all be all,
Speaker 2: but I think it is one way to measure generational
Speaker 2: players and rotations. The twenty eleven Phillies rotation still has
Speaker 2: the single season highest war of any rotation in baseball history.
Speaker 2: And anytime I do mention that, people go, that's a
Speaker 2: bunch of crap. The Braves rotations were way better. Yeah,
Speaker 2: Braves rotations as a whole were better. In fact, some
Speaker 2: of those Braves rotations are in the top ten in
Speaker 2: that conversation. But that twenty eleven Phillies rotation was so good.
Speaker 1: I mean, you think of Roy Halliday should have won
Speaker 1: the Cy Young that year.
Speaker 2: In my opinion, I think he outpitched Clayton Kershaw, but
Speaker 2: Clayton won twenty games, and so Clayton.
Speaker 1: Kershaw got it.
Speaker 2: Cliff Lee had two scoreless inning streaks of thirty plus
Speaker 2: innings that year.
Speaker 1: I mean he was sick.
Speaker 2: Cole Hamill's was great, and you mentioned Ozwalt was up
Speaker 2: and down, Vance Whorley stepped up and pitched really well.
Speaker 2: But there are some really impressive performances so far this
Speaker 2: season with Wheeler, with Ranger Suarez, who was he could
Speaker 2: run down one of the Cliff Lee's scoreless inning streaks
Speaker 2: in his next start Saturday night in San Diego. He's
Speaker 2: twenty five innings scoreless innings right now, so he could
Speaker 2: run him down. Aaron Nola's pitched a lot better. I
Speaker 2: feel like since that first start, and then you got
Speaker 2: Spencer Turnbull, you know, and Christopher Sanchez.
Speaker 1: Spencer Trimble has been really good.
Speaker 2: Talk about lowie ras. The other night he had the
Speaker 2: fourth lowest ERA in baseball. So but it is it
Speaker 2: is a lot of fun to talk about. I do
Speaker 2: love those comparisons, and just the fact that we are
Speaker 2: having this conversation, I think tells you how well this
Speaker 2: group is performing and the expectations for this group going forward.
Speaker 2: You know, I think particularly for those top three guys, Wheeler, Nola,
Speaker 2: and Suarez, there's very high expectations that they can keep
Speaker 2: this up. Each of them can make thirty plus starts,
Speaker 2: each of them can knock down two hundred innings potentially,
Speaker 2: and then you just need those other two guys to
Speaker 2: whoever those other two guys are.
Speaker 1: We know, it's Christopher Sanchez.
Speaker 4: Is gonna be one of them.
Speaker 2: But whoever those other two guys are that they can
Speaker 2: kind of do what Vance Worley and Kyle Kendrick and
Speaker 2: Joe Blanton did.
Speaker 3: So when I start thinking about, you know, the comparisons,
Speaker 3: I don't like to compare all that much. But the
Speaker 3: coole part for me personally, on a personal level, is
Speaker 3: that my my personal involvement in both of these rotations
Speaker 3: because you know, I obviously part of the one in
Speaker 3: twenty eleven trying to put that thing together and others
Speaker 3: put it together for me as well, but to do
Speaker 3: that number one and also to sort of be involved
Speaker 3: in the you know, two fifths of the one that's
Speaker 3: that's here, I mean with Ranger Suarez and Aaron Nola,
Speaker 3: you know, tooting my own horn a little bit of here,
Speaker 3: But it doesn't it's not about tooting my horn. It's
Speaker 3: what it is is about, you know, having some pride
Speaker 3: about the Phillies, right, because the Phillies are my team.
Speaker 3: They've been my team my whole life. I mean, I
Speaker 3: know I went to other organizations, but for me to
Speaker 3: watch this develop and to have these things happen, I
Speaker 3: got to give lots of love to Dave Dombrowski because
Speaker 3: he's sort of got that old school mentality too.
Speaker 4: Man.
Speaker 3: It's all about the starting pitching, always has been, always
Speaker 3: will be, and for every It doesn't matter what year
Speaker 3: it is. If you have solid starting pitching, you have
Speaker 3: a chance to win a World championship every single year.
Speaker 3: You have a chance to win a baseball game every
Speaker 3: single You know what it's like to be in a
Speaker 3: dugout when those guys take the mound. As a player,
Speaker 3: it's spectacular.
Speaker 4: I mean, I think that.
Speaker 3: Harper talked about it in the postgame interview that you know,
Speaker 3: every time Zach Wheeler takes the mound, he has a
Speaker 3: chance to be something, to do something special, and they
Speaker 3: when you have that feeling with five guys, four or five,
Speaker 3: maybe even six guys at some point this year, that's
Speaker 3: pretty special.
Speaker 4: Man.
Speaker 3: There's nothing like nothing like that.
Speaker 2: Zach Wheeler pitched so well even without his best stuff
Speaker 2: last night that I got to get on the six
Speaker 2: to twenty flight out of Cincinnati instead of taking the
Speaker 2: eight ten flight through Charlotte Homes. So Zach Wheeler got
Speaker 2: me home about four hours earlier last night.
Speaker 3: That I thought you and me both.
Speaker 1: So kudos to Zach Wheeler.
Speaker 5: Did you get me stop in the airport for any
Speaker 5: of that Goal Star Chili? Got a nice goal Star
Speaker 5: Chili right in their food court there.
Speaker 1: I got there.
Speaker 2: I got there just enough time to walk straight to
Speaker 2: the gate and get on the planet.
Speaker 5: So we're gonna see, you know, finally gonna see Taiwan
Speaker 5: Walker Sunday in San Diego, San Diego, the land of
Speaker 5: fish tacos there. I am of the opinion that the
Speaker 5: best thing that possibly could happen to Taiwan Walker is
Speaker 5: actually Spencer Turnbull. Because if you are a competitor worth
Speaker 5: your salt, and somebody is nipping at your at your toes,
Speaker 5: at your backside, pushing you for your job, trying to
Speaker 5: take it, that should be a awesome motivator for a competitor.
Speaker 5: So we'll see, it might bring out the best of them.
Speaker 5: When you're afraid for your job. Now, when you're on
Speaker 5: a guaranteed contract, that adds a whole different element to it.
Speaker 5: Maybe there isn't that fear for your job. But I
Speaker 5: do believe in the pride of a competitor.
Speaker 2: Gentlemen, your takes well, you know, Ruben, you said this
Speaker 2: I think on one of the previous shows he said,
Speaker 2: I know Dave Dembrowski, and I know that he's going
Speaker 2: to demand performance.
Speaker 1: So I talked with Dave the other day.
Speaker 2: Out in the dugout, and I thought he gave a
Speaker 2: really interesting quote at the end of this conversation about
Speaker 2: Turnbull and why why you're going to move him the
Speaker 2: bullpen potentially They said they haven't made an announcement yet
Speaker 2: or in a decision yet, but he said, now it's
Speaker 2: up to him to go out and pitch. Well, nothing
Speaker 2: comes in perpetuity, right, He's earned the ability to do that,
Speaker 2: but now he has to go out and perform. We
Speaker 2: think he will. Now here's the thing that jumped out
Speaker 2: at me. If he doesn't, then we'll tackle it at
Speaker 2: that time. Sounds like somebody you know who also is
Speaker 2: trying to maybe you know who's who understands the situation
Speaker 2: and respects what ten Spencer Turnbull has done. And I'm
Speaker 2: not going to read Dave dembrowsk his mind, but maybe
Speaker 2: he hopes that he sees that quote and goes, oh, okay,
Speaker 2: so it's not just going to be given to me
Speaker 2: for the entire season.
Speaker 1: If I don't go out and perform. Do you think
Speaker 1: that's I.
Speaker 2: Mean, Ruben, have you ever thrown a message out there
Speaker 2: publicly as a GM, or as a coach or as
Speaker 2: a player stupidly?
Speaker 1: Yes, I have.
Speaker 3: I've actually did that one time with Chase Suttley when
Speaker 3: Cessa Hernandez playing really well.
Speaker 4: And that was the stupidest thing I've ever did.
Speaker 5: But or one of them I got that.
Speaker 3: That was.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I had a hair at my rear end.
Speaker 3: I had a serious hair my ass that day for
Speaker 3: some reason. I don't know why.
Speaker 4: But cessar was playing really well.
Speaker 3: I was just whatever.
Speaker 4: Sometimes I.
Speaker 5: Blew out a hamstring, run into the press box to
Speaker 5: get to my keyboard to write down.
Speaker 4: Of course you did, of course you did.
Speaker 3: And then and then I've really pissed off Chase, which
Speaker 3: is the last thing I wanted to do, but I
Speaker 3: did it.
Speaker 4: Anyway, Oh my god.
Speaker 3: But but the reality of it is that I agree
Speaker 3: with both of what you guys said.
Speaker 4: I think the time Walker is a competitor. I think
Speaker 4: he's going to push him.
Speaker 3: I don't think there's any.
Speaker 4: Question about it.
Speaker 3: I think he's gonna, you know, do his best to perform.
Speaker 3: I'm not sure if he has it in him because
Speaker 3: I'm not seeing it yet. But that said, especially lately
Speaker 3: in his rehabs ninety ninety one and stuff was there,
Speaker 3: but not great. Maybe the adrenaline of being in the
Speaker 3: major leagues and pitching and all that stuff that there's
Speaker 3: a real that's a real element, so hopefully it pitches well.
Speaker 3: I think he's a great competitor. I think he's a
Speaker 3: great teammate. I think he does all the right things.
Speaker 3: I think he's going to do his best to try
Speaker 3: to earn his job back.
Speaker 4: So to speak.
Speaker 3: That said, I don't think that Dave Dombrowski is going
Speaker 3: to have a real long leash on him. My feeling
Speaker 3: is in three starts, if he doesn't show real quality
Speaker 3: compared to where Turnbull was, I think he may take
Speaker 3: him out of the rotation.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: That's that's something Dave Dombrowski's into winning championships. Man, it's
Speaker 3: about winning. It's not it's about performance, and it's about win.
Speaker 3: And it doesn't matter whether you have an eight million
Speaker 3: dollar contract or uh, you know, four hundred thousand dollars contract.
Speaker 4: The reality of it is David.
Speaker 3: Wants to win, John Midleton wants to win. Rob Thompson
Speaker 3: wants to win and they're going to do everything they
Speaker 3: can to do that. Now, when you start thinking about that,
Speaker 3: you think, well, what about Castillanos, How does that? How
Speaker 3: does he fit into that equation? Because I don't know
Speaker 3: how long his leash is going to be. I mean,
Speaker 3: he continues to struggle. I think he's one of the
Speaker 3: Jimini I think we agree on this, one of the
Speaker 3: better producing right handed hitters in the game over the
Speaker 3: last several years, which he has been. But at some
Speaker 3: point he's going to have to start performing. I mean,
Speaker 3: he's moved him in the lineup, he gave him a
Speaker 3: chance at four hole. He let him, you know, obviously hope, hopefully,
Speaker 3: hopefully he got things going in Cincinnati. He's still not
Speaker 3: there yet. It's still not he's he's not there's not
Speaker 3: in the flow. So it will be interesting to see
Speaker 3: how long he gets to be able to play every
Speaker 3: day in right field, because who knows. I mean, if
Speaker 3: you don't forming, I know, he's going to continue to
Speaker 3: get chances. He could continue to play him, and Rob
Speaker 3: wants to get him to swing him his way out
Speaker 3: of it. But it will be interesting. Just to go
Speaker 3: back to the pitching thing, did have one situation, and
Speaker 3: it was one of the reasons why I took Jimmy.
Speaker 4: Moyer out of the rotation.
Speaker 3: Jamie wasn't performing that one year in two thousand and
Speaker 3: nine and we ended up getting Pedro Martinez and when
Speaker 3: he came on, you know, and I was very honest
Speaker 3: with Jamie. I told him straight up, you know this
Speaker 3: is you know, and then you know, then he held
Speaker 3: his own little press conference and I was there and
Speaker 3: threw me under the bus like he was surprised.
Speaker 4: But the reality of it is, I mean, he wasn't pitching.
Speaker 3: We had to do his pitching to like a five
Speaker 3: seven e RA or something like that, and I don't
Speaker 3: have many of the performances. And I said, well, next guy,
Speaker 3: you go to the pen hang with him.
Speaker 5: And and that's I mean, we're kind of down down
Speaker 5: a little tangent here with the with the Mori thing,
Speaker 5: but it's the same thing you mentioned Dobrowski. I mean,
Speaker 5: I think with Casianos helps the patience factor that they're winning.
Speaker 5: But what you say about Dobraski, he didn't come out
Speaker 5: of retirement in his mid sixties to preside over a
Speaker 5: rebuilding effort. He came out of retirement because you know,
Speaker 5: he's got an owner who wants to win and backs
Speaker 5: it up and he sees the opportunity to put another
Speaker 5: ring on his finger. Here he's all about winning.
Speaker 4: So he's and he's a Hall of Fame candidate. I
Speaker 4: mean that is I think he's I think he's probably
Speaker 4: in too.
Speaker 3: Saying you know, he's got a reputation too, and it's
Speaker 3: not necessarily about the reputation, but it's about, you know,
Speaker 3: doing his job, and he wants to win.
Speaker 5: But isn't it you know you're not going to be
Speaker 5: if you give say you give Timeline Walker three it's
Speaker 5: a three starts. It's a really valid question. How much
Speaker 5: longer is the is the Lesion Castillanos? I mean, Todd
Speaker 5: and I covered Charlie, Manuel Rubin, you were probably the GM.
Speaker 5: Then remember when he sat Jimmy for three days up
Speaker 5: in Toronto?
Speaker 1: Do you remember that?
Speaker 5: Yeah, he was just kind of lost at the plate
Speaker 5: and he sat him for three He said, Jimmy, you're
Speaker 5: just gonna go in the cage. I don't care if
Speaker 5: you eat Hamburgers all weekend, just get away from it.
Speaker 5: And it did Jimmy some good. I just wonder if
Speaker 5: that time might be coming with Nick, and I want
Speaker 5: to stress it's not. It wouldn't be punitive, it would
Speaker 5: be remedial to try to get him out of this.
Speaker 5: Maybe a little break would help him.
Speaker 1: No, yeah, yeah, I think so. No, I was gonna say,
Speaker 1: I think so.
Speaker 2: I think the big difference between the Walker Turnbull situation
Speaker 2: the castiana situation, though, of course, is who plays right field.
Speaker 2: If Nick Castianos does not, you know, if he continues
Speaker 2: to struggle, the Phillies really don't have, in my opinion,
Speaker 2: a natural option out there. You know, I guess for
Speaker 2: in the short term they can make anything work. But
Speaker 2: you know, Turnbull can step in. He's proven it. Who
Speaker 2: plays right field for the Phillies.
Speaker 3: So I think that you can put Martian right field.
Speaker 3: I think you can piece it together with guys like
Speaker 3: Cody Clemens who swung the bat.
Speaker 4: Well, that's why.
Speaker 3: They're going to put him in the outfield. You've got
Speaker 3: Merrorfield out there. You can stick out in left field.
Speaker 3: Pashe maybe not quite so much. But for me, Merrorfield
Speaker 3: is probably a little bit better everyday player than he
Speaker 3: is a bench player because he's sort of getting used
Speaker 3: to that. I think he's this guy who needs to
Speaker 3: get reps. It's a difficult he's in a difficult space
Speaker 3: right now because it's hard for being an everyday player
Speaker 3: now to be a bench guy and not be playing
Speaker 3: a lot. I think he's got more to offer in
Speaker 3: his bat. I think he's you know, like a professional
Speaker 3: at back, and so it's interesting.
Speaker 4: I don't see this happening.
Speaker 3: But Jimmy, you make a great point about like taking
Speaker 3: him off the field and letting him breathe and letting him.
Speaker 4: Get out of his head.
Speaker 3: And Rob Thompson, actually Tompson thinks about this stuff a lot.
Speaker 3: He is very astute. I mean, he's been in player development,
Speaker 3: He understands players.
Speaker 4: He gets it.
Speaker 3: I think he feels like Nick Cassiano is one of
Speaker 3: those guys that needs to play to work himself out
Speaker 3: of it. Now, you may be right that at some
Speaker 3: point if you take him off the field for two
Speaker 3: days and just let him vegetate and relax, then maybe
Speaker 3: he'll bounce back and just breathe a little bit. Maybe
Speaker 3: he'll bounce back. And because he's never really gone through
Speaker 3: one of these stretches, I don't think in his entire
Speaker 3: career he's just been too good of a hitter over
Speaker 3: his career.
Speaker 5: Do you agree, Ruben that there would be more urgency
Speaker 5: and even more glare on the situation if if they
Speaker 5: if they're not winning like they are.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, if they were not winning, I think it would
Speaker 3: be it would be different for Nick.
Speaker 4: But also the fact that, I mean, the back.
Speaker 3: Of the baseball card does not lie man.
Speaker 4: I mean, you know this guy, this guy can hit.
Speaker 3: I mean, I've always admired the way he goes about it,
Speaker 3: and he's just not in the right space right now
Speaker 3: as far as being in the box getting close. He's
Speaker 3: had some decent at bats, but he's not like barreling
Speaker 3: the ball up consistently enough to be Nick Castillanos. I
Speaker 3: think at some point it's going to happen, but it's
Speaker 3: just and you hope it does. But but you're right, Jim,
Speaker 3: this team was struggling, and really it was under five
Speaker 3: hundred right now for instance, and then they might be
Speaker 3: it might be a little bit more of a weather bay.
Speaker 3: People be eyeballing a little bit. You see that they're
Speaker 3: not doing it on Johan Rojas anymore. They're not bugging him.
Speaker 3: Of course, he's getting east swinging the battle little bit better.
Speaker 3: But but you know, this offense isn't based around Johann Rojas, right,
Speaker 3: It's based around guys like Cassianos and Harper and and
Speaker 3: and the home et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 2: So the Phillies opened a three game series this weekend
Speaker 2: in San Diego. Petco Park one of my top five ballparks.
Speaker 2: I always tell people too, if you're going to do
Speaker 2: a baseball road trip, hit up Dodger Stadium, hit up Petco.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys agree with that, but
Speaker 1: Petco is.
Speaker 5: I love Petco Park. I love that area of the
Speaker 5: gas Lamp. You know, it's funny. When Ruben was playing,
Speaker 5: they used to play, you know, out about five miles
Speaker 5: inland in what they call Mission Valley. It was a desert.
Speaker 5: They had a big stadium there and there was nothing
Speaker 5: around it. There was a hotel where everybody stayed. And
Speaker 5: now it's grown up, but it's it's almost like an
Speaker 5: expansion city. When they built that new ballpark, it's almost
Speaker 5: like a whole new world because I never even went
Speaker 5: downtown until they built a ballpark. You were out in
Speaker 5: the desert and you come in the game and you
Speaker 5: went back to the hotel. And it's really I agree
Speaker 5: with you. If you're going to make a Phillies road trip,
Speaker 5: San Diego is a great place to go. That that
Speaker 5: gas light, gas lamp with the stadium, it's a picturesque stadium.
Speaker 5: It's beautiful with the warehouse and it's fun with the
Speaker 5: walk around and see some of the pictures, and then
Speaker 5: the skyline and the Coronado Bridge. It's really a beautiful stadium.
Speaker 5: And then the gas lamp really hops and on weekends
Speaker 5: it's just you've never seen so many drunk young people
Speaker 5: in your life Saturday night in the gas lamp.
Speaker 4: It's a good spot. It's a good spot.
Speaker 2: Last year, last year, I walked out to where Schwarber
Speaker 2: hit that home run in Game one of the twenty
Speaker 2: twenty two NLCS, and it is so far away from
Speaker 2: home plate. You know, you when you see when you
Speaker 2: see when you're sitting behind home plate or you're sitting
Speaker 2: in the stands, I guess, and you see him.
Speaker 1: Hit that ball you know goes far.
Speaker 2: But when you actually go then sit in the seats,
Speaker 2: you're like, how does a human being hit a baseball
Speaker 2: this far?
Speaker 4: You know, was that off you, Darvish? That was off you?
Speaker 1: Darvish.
Speaker 4: Yes.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 5: And the reason it's a good poke, that's a big
Speaker 5: ballpark is because they were so tired of seeing Barry
Speaker 5: Bonds beat him up for all those years that they
Speaker 5: they tried to build a Bonds proof and then they
Speaker 5: ended up moving the right field wall in a little bit.
Speaker 5: But that's why I had big dimensions.
Speaker 3: So nice, nice ballpark. At first, I didn't like it
Speaker 3: all that much, and then it sort of grew on
Speaker 3: me a lot.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And and what.
Speaker 5: Didn't you like about it?
Speaker 4: I don't know something about it. It seemed like sort of
Speaker 4: everything with sand colored.
Speaker 3: Now there's more like blue in there and different colors.
Speaker 3: And I think they did a couple of things after
Speaker 3: the fact that made it nicer and nicer. And it's
Speaker 3: obviously it's in a great area. I mean it's right
Speaker 3: down the right, right down in the middle of the city.
Speaker 1: It's amazing.
Speaker 2: So Friday night we got Aaron Nola versus Joe Muskgrove
Speaker 2: Saturday as Ranger Suarez with that twenty five inning scoreless streak,
Speaker 2: rolling against Dylan Cees, who's off to a really nice
Speaker 2: start with the Padres. He's three and one with a
Speaker 2: one eight three e ra and then Sunday, the one
Speaker 2: that every Phillies fan will be watching very very closely
Speaker 2: as they're having their cool of the evening beer on
Speaker 2: Sunday is Taiwan Walker versus Michael King.
Speaker 1: So after that they go it.
Speaker 2: They go to Anaheim early next week to cap this
Speaker 2: ten game road trip.
Speaker 5: Probably you know, probably since the Braves that opening series
Speaker 5: the best offense, Yes, but the Phillies have encountered. They
Speaker 5: got some studs, they got some studs, and like you mentioned, cess,
Speaker 5: pitching really really well. I think this is, you know,
Speaker 5: a good test for the Phillies, but you know, pitching
Speaker 5: can can help you pass those tests. And some timely hitting.
Speaker 5: I mean like Turner and Balm, the white balls, the
Speaker 5: white bom hits with runners on runners on base, and
Speaker 5: he's been doing it. It's like even the rookie year
Speaker 5: of the pandemic year. He's just very he's just so
Speaker 5: good with runners on base.
Speaker 4: He's tremendous. He's a really really good hitter.
Speaker 3: He's starting to really understand how to drive the ball
Speaker 3: to and to pull the ball more to get the
Speaker 3: ball out front in certain situations. I love the way
Speaker 3: he swings the bat. He's getting better and better. And
Speaker 3: I'm not surprised that that topp Or flipped he and
Speaker 3: real mute two. I knew at some point it was
Speaker 3: going to have to happen, and I'm glad it's happening now.
Speaker 3: You know, people get on top of about, you know, not
Speaker 3: not changing the lineup and being too consistent, and how
Speaker 3: come he hasn't more reactionary.
Speaker 4: Well, he reacted.
Speaker 3: He's got the he's got Boehmer in the forehole because
Speaker 3: boemers swinging the hell out of it, and and he's
Speaker 3: and he can protect Harper that way.
Speaker 1: Guys. That was fun. R'll be back on Monday.
Speaker 2: I think Philly's in Anaheim, So everybody enjoy the weekend
Speaker 2: and we will talk to you next week.
Speaker 5: Spell at a room.
Speaker 3: Smell yah m hm